Ovulation & Dread

ovulation_dread

I had an interesting study brought to my attention recently (ht/ Robert Burriss) and I thought I’d get back to a nuts and bolts post with something useful I found in it.

Women Selectively Guard Their Desirable Mates From Ovulating Women.

As you might expect, much of the findings in this study reinforce many Red Pill principles founded in evo-psych, but there are a few new angles to consider here. Before I start to riff on this study, bear in mind that the concept of female mate guarding behavior centers on what the researchers define as ‘desirable mates’ to women. This subjective assessment of desirability will play into all this analysis.

For women, forming close, cooperative relationships with other women at once poses important opportunities and possible threats-including mate retention. To maximize the benefits and minimize the costs of same-sex social relationships, we propose that women’s mate guarding is functionally flexible and that women are sensitive to both interpersonal and contextual cues indicating whether other women might be likely and effective mate poachers. Here, we assess one such cue: other women’s fertility. Because ovulating (i.e., high-fertility) women are both more attractive to men and also more attracted to (desirable) men, ovulating women may be perceived to pose heightened threats to other women’s romantic relationships. Across 4 experiments, partnered women were exposed to photographs of other women taken during either their ovulatory or nonovulatory menstrual-cycle phases, and consistently reported intentions to socially avoid ovulating (but not nonovulating) women-but only when their own partners were highly desirable. Exposure to ovulating women also increased women’s sexual desires for their (highly desirable) partners. These findings suggest that women can be sensitive to subtle cues of other women’s fertility and respond (e.g., via social exclusion, enhanced sexual attention to own mate) in ways that may facilitate their mate retention goals while not thwarting their affiliative goals.

Right from the start here we have two Red Pill foundations confirmed; the influence that perceptual SMV plays in women’s sense of passive Dread and the fundamental influence that menstruation dictates to sexual arousal and concurrent motivations for sex appeal during women’s ovulation phase.

I’ve previously gone into the dynamics that play out between men and women with regard to perceived SMV of a partner versus the other partner’s self-perception of their own SMV and how this determines secure vs. insecure attachment. This post was more of an outline of results of SMV imbalance rather that the motivations for the characteristics of those personal attachments. This study illustrates these underlying motivators very well.

Anyone who’s heard my Man in Demand talk on Hypergamy understands the (menstrual cycle) biological root for women’s personal and sociological behavior, and this study provides yet another confirmation of it. I’ve also written in the past about men’s propensity for mate guarding and the behavioral cues women, both subtly and not so subtly, display that prompts them to mate guarding. However, I’ve yet to explore women’s mate guarding behaviors.

I’m bringing up the SMV ratios and Mate Guarding posts here because it’s important to bear in mind the subjectivity that perceived SMV plays in regard to motivating mate guarding. Depending on that balance (or imbalance) one partner will be more motivated to mate guard than the other. Which of course then brings us back to the Cardinal Rule of Relationships. Mate guarding impulse is contextual to the comparative value of both individuals and the value of others in their social environment (potential sexual competitors).

Thus, it is a significant challenge for women when other women attempt to poach their partners. For instance, over 50% of women admit to attempting to poach another woman’s partner, and over 80% of men admit to having been the object of another woman’s poaching—with about half of men admitting to “going along” with the poaching attempt (e.g., Schmitt et al., 2004; Schmitt & Buss, 2001). Women have good reason, then, to mate guard.

I’m going to encourage readers to take the time to, at the very least, read the introduction, premise and results of this comprehensive study. Naturally there will be incredulous women who will insist that men tend to overestimate the displayed sexual interests of women towards them. This is a common social convention that serves a very specific purpose for women; plausible deniability.

If the common group-think is that men are egotistical, think they’re “all that” and stupidly believe they’re seeing sexual cues from women because “that’s just how men are”, then we have a pre-established condition in which women can believably deny interest. Thus, should a man not find a woman attractive, or opt for another, this then serves as a rejection buffer as well as a precondition for her own rejection of a man should he make an approach and not be found attractive.

The Schmitt & Buss studies account for this, but even if they didn’t there would still need to be a functional reason for women’s mate guarding behavior. That reason puts the lie to the social convention of women presuming men aren’t as perceptive of their sexual cues as they’d like to believe.

[…] whereas men have at times physically isolated and sequestered their female

partners to restrict other men’s access to them (e.g., in harems), women may analogously socially isolate their partners from potential poachers—keeping them apart so as to preclude potentially costly competition for their romantic partners.

The usefulness of this strategy depends on women being able to identify those who might be likely and effective mate poachers, and then excluding them (but not others) from their social circles. If a woman indiscriminately distances herself and her partner from potential poachers (i.e., all other women), she is assured of his fidelity but at the cost of eliminating her access to the numerous benefits of female–female friendships.

Spoiler alert: The study confirms that women will covertly exclude themselves and their lover’s company from women who A.) outclass them in comparative SMV (hotter women than they perceive themselves to be) and B.) happen to be in the proliferative phase of ovulation.

This indicates that not only are women subconsciously (if not consciously) aware of intrasexual rivals ovulatory states – as evidenced by dress, ornamentation, vocal intonation, scent, sexual proceptivity, etc. – but they are aware enough to orchestrate covert methods to protect their sexual investments in a ‘high value’ male while ensuring future intrasexual friendships.

That may seem like an overly scientific way of saying women watch out for other women slutting it up, but the subcommunications of ovulation are so subtle that women’s subconscious, peripheral awareness of those cues evolved for a sensitivity that goes beyond the obvious slut. That’s how important retaining a better-than-self SMV optimal mating choice is to women in an evolutionary scope. That sensitivity is part of women’s psychological firmware.

[…]In addition, if a woman were to consistently and indiscriminately exclude other women from her own and, by extension, her partner’s social circle, she might gain a reputation for being non-communal and non-nurturing, and thus, for being an undesirable friend. This might not only thwart her ability to form future friendships with other women, but might also lead her partner to perceive her as highly difficult, uncooperative, controlling, and non-trusting.

Thus, on one hand, the costs of indiscriminately avoiding other women are high because women reap important benefits from making new same-sex friends, On the other hand, women can and do mate poach with frequency, and those women deeply embedded in one’s social circle may have increased access, motivation, and ability to poach successfully.

There’s a few things to unpack here before we can make this information Red Pill / Game applicable. The most important metric that female mate guarding indicates is her genuine assessment of a man’s SMV and how valuable his participation and investment in their LTR (or even STR sexual value) is to her.

I’ve seen this mate guarding play out in my own relationships before, both as a Red Pill husband who happens to work with beautiful women in the liquor industry and prior to my Red Pill awareness of it in my libertine 20s. Back then it was easy to pass off as ‘bitches be crazy’ when a girlfriend or a short term sex partner “just got jealous”. But in hindsight the timing of those fits of jealousy seemed a bit to regular.

I’m going to suggest that developing an awareness of a woman’s bouts of jealousy or her subtle timing in wanting to spend time alone with you, or her being more sexually proceptive (she wants to fuck more) with you at times you may think odd. These are Alpha or Beta TellsA woman’s preoccupation with guarding you from other women is a prime indicator of your SMV worth to her. It stands to reason that only ‘desirable’ men deserve the effort of her mate guarding.

This is an important Red Pill sensitivity to have as it also allows you to determine a woman’s unspoken understanding of where she and you stand in relative SMV comparison. As I was saying in the introduction here, that ‘desirability’, that SMV ratio, that Alpha impression that makes you worth mate guarding is subjective to what a woman’s self-perceived SMV is in respect to your own. When we interact with women in the long term it’s very easy for men to lose sight of this balance and think that their frumpy wife is the best they can do. There is a definitive psychological game that women of low SMV will play with men they know are of higher value – they will continually devalue that man as a form of mate guarding.

That devaluation may take the form of browbeating, nagging or accusing him of being attracted to other women in an effort to get her higher value LTR man to self-limit his being poached by endlessly qualifying himself to his low SMV wife/girlfriend. It’s far easier, and far lower an investment of resources if a low SMV woman can convince her higher SMV man to mate guard himself.

Just as an aside here, there may be a few readers who’ll think women will rationally consider that their long term provisioning is virtually assured in a feminine-primary social order. Alimony, child support or pro-female government will assure her and her offspring a baseline of security, so why mate guard any man?

The answer of course is that women’s psychological firm ware didn’t evolve to acknowledge these considerations. Once again T-Rex doesn’t want to be fed, he wants to hunt. So even with the logical consideration that provisioning is assured women’s limbic (particularly on an Alpha Fucks short term breeding assurance) still wants those environmental and behavioral cues that indicate they have that security.

Passive Dread

So with all of this to digest how do we put this knowledge of women’s limbic desire for ensuring a mate’s exclusive sex and provisioning to use for us?

The obvious answer is in the title of this post – developing that awareness of your SMV worth to a woman is a good starting point from which you can subtly employ a passive form of Dread.

I’ve gotten a lot of grief for just my acknowledging Dread, much less using it beneficially for both a man and whatever woman he chooses (long or short term). It’s always about how horribly manipulative it is, or it’s just an unsustainable game of brinksmanship between a couple that destroys trust. But what these (usually female) critics never recognize is that Dread is already an integral part of every relationship by order of degree.

The fact that both male and female mate guarding behaviors are evidential facts of both sex’s hindbrain function should be proof enough that Dread, the concern of loss of investment, and the subconscious, comparative evaluation of SMV is something that’s always an operative. It’s inherent to our conditions as evolved human beings.

My advice in this instance is for men to become sensitive to the indicators of that ovulatory mate guarding dread and use that insecurity to promote a better, genuine desire in that woman. Suggesting this will seem counterintuitive to a Blue Pill mindset. The conditioned response will be to allay that woman’s fears (the ones she’s subconsciously aware of but will hate you for making her acknowledge) and provide her with comfort and familiarity.

But comfort and familiarity are anti-seductive and kill the genuine desire, the genuine need to fuck you in order to keep you and show her appreciation for your higher SMV. Why does a woman compete for what she is constantly comfortably assured she already has?

The trick to employing soft or passive dread is making yourself sensitive to the opportunities to use it and then gently provoke it in as covert and indirect a way as possible. One of the better ideas the early PUAs had was mastering the art of the Neg, or the backhanded compliment. The idea was to casually knock a woman’s self-image down to a manageable degree in order to get her to qualify herself the the PUA. Passive dread operates on a similar principle.

You need to see the opportunities for its use, and women’s propensity for mate guarding men they find ‘desirable’ is a reasonably predictable opportunity. See those chances for other women’s casual flirtations with you, look for those unsolicited opportunities for easy social proof, and don’t dissuade your woman’s initial mate guarding response. Casually push back on the mate guarding impulse, don’t jump to the reassurances of your undying love and interest.

See that opportunity for what it is – a chance to restate whose Frame she’s chosen to be a part of. She wants to merit your value. Take that effort away from her and you become valueless to her.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

968 comments on “Ovulation & Dread

  1. @YaReally

    They don’t even care if they get the girl, they think they will EVENTUALLY when she realizes he’s better than all these jerks, their goal is just to make sure YOU don’t get her.

    …but I can’t blame them I do the same thing to other guys lol but just when they’re dicks to me and earn it.

    I think the difference is that if you or I do this, we’re doing it for the lulz and fun of competing. These guys are playing out of anger and taking shit personal. One is going to keep things light and let you remain a happy person, the other is just anger getting the better of you.

  2. @Culum

    They always admit to less than they’ve done. She’s a standard “reformed” CC rider trying way too hard and way too late to make a lane change. You and I couldn’t possibly punch through those bitch shields. I probably would have bailed within minutes. Then again 38’s also well beyond what I would bother with online for a lot of the reasons you ran in to, so while it requires more experience to get her going you could be pulling hotter/younger chicks so why bother?

    Never mention job. Ever. It’s none of her goddamn business until you’re considering commitment. Women who ask what I do for a living get playfully called out as gold diggers first, then fed a bunch of bullshit fake jobs (puppy phrenologist being my favorite, mafia hit man being amusing, and sometimes I claim I collect semen from mosquitoes), and then if they continue to persist I ask if they’re interested in me or just helping me apply for a credit application. Tease them the whole way. Never give them a straight answer.

    I also never give a straight answer about what kind of relationship I’m looking for. Every chick I’ve fucked within a date or two has had an answer that was vague. You don’t need to tell them either way… they have to earn your commitment. If you say one way or the other, they’ve either lost the motivation to try or they think you’re a manslut (giving out commitment the way sluts give out sex). She knows she has to EARN your commitment if you’re high value instinctively. Establish value. Never establish what you’re looking for. With value, you can choose what you’re looking for.

    I’ll let a woman say she doesn’t fuck on the first date. If she says she doesn’t do anything less than that, I’m done. She’s establishing her frame up front, and you’re tacitly agreeing to it by remaining there. Don’t waste your time on a bitch pulling that move, especially at that age. She can’t be dictating anything to anyone when she’s over a decade past her prime. She needs to submit to a high value man. His time is too valuable for a post-Wall harpy to waste.

  3. @Culum

    Oh and for the record, it is piss poor Girl Game to say “I don’t X on the first date” for any value of X. Even sex. You take a dude’s possibility of getting laid off the table up front and make it clear you feel no immediate attraction without leaving him any hope? Really? Talk about lacking feminine charm…

  4. YeahReally. Killing it. Your assessment of the young ones sure casts some dark shadows upon the sexual marketplace – and “culture” at large, really. Can’t disagree at all, but your poolside optimism intrigues. I feel like I’m a long way away from enjoying the shitstorm to the point where the silver linings are keeping me warm at night and I’m LOL’ing my way to the bank.

    “…especially as they realize working at 40+ isn’t fun like it was at 25 when the CEO with a wife and 2 kids was flirting with them in the office.”

    Yep. Most things are not as fun at 40 as they were at 25. That’s why they are looking to retire with their beta provider. Its the SIW with one hand on the career ripcord and the other on her phone, Tindering her way through the lane change into beta bux land. Its quite insane if you stop and think about it. Such as…..

    @Culum
    Those 38 y/o birds are the walking dead 9/10 times. “I used to be a slut” But now no kisses. Right. She’s on Tinder to find a husband. LOL. The thing with those lane changers is that they have tasted the sweet treats for far too long. As a result, they have acquired Type II diabetes from carousel cock candy.

    And now they want you to stick around for all the ass-injections of anti-attraction and nutritional seminars down at the non-judgmental rock-band church with a gourmet coffee bar.

    Compress the time frame and you get this: they do shots with Chad, blow him in the restroom, but then sidle up to you to take the taxi you paid for home where you get to hold her hair back while she technicolor yawns all over her BedBath&Beyond bathmat. Just hold me, I don’t feel very sexy.

    You get to perform in order to earn the right to manage their new diet of starfish sex (I don’t do ‘that’ anymore) and honey-do-list weekends at the Ikea picking out shitty, knobless furniture while secretly checking the scores on your phone hoping nobody sees the deadness in your eyes. Of course I speak from experience.

    Sure, they really are looking for the plan B, but they are also fucking someone. It may not be you. But they are still banging. Not just banging, but repeatedly swerving back into the fun lane for some no-strings sugar. Nobody quits sugar cold-turkey.

    That’s the beauty of Tinder being “mainstream” now. They get to swipe for both and then let it play out while droning on about their dedication to forever love, aka A Wedding.

    The lane change is sloppy. For these birds, you need to be the “mistake” or the “just hanging out”. Anything else is just holding her hair back. Of this, I also speak from experience – as the “mistake” that seems to happen fairly often with zero effort on my end while she husband shops.

    They are blinded by their own sudden and situational virtue. These women can’t see how banging me no-strings might be impacting their grand plans to nest. And none, none of their BFF’s or family, or beta orbiters would dare challenge their approach or their contextual sexual values. Its one big jerk-off to the FI.

    In any case, good on you for making a go. Not busting your chops at all. I’m just surrounded by these girls and can’t keep the cynicism at bay. The 23 y/o flaking-texing-tindering nonsense somehow feels more natural. Painful, but natural. The 40 y/o dual-track delusional “those days are behind me” stuff is just off-putting from the start.

    At least in your example she was still into her “Career.” Most I run into are wanting to get out of their jobs as badly as they are wanting to get into BetaBuxLand. Of course they romanticize (rationalize) it, just like they do with their sexual epiphanies. “I just want to do something that is truly meaningful and rewarding on a spiritual level.” Like yoga. Or starting an artisanal gluten-free dog-biscuit company.

    They either go full (SMUTS) Sudden Maternal Urge To Settle or they just hang around the carousel and occasionally kick over the cat litter and scream about no Good Men.

    Which is why they are also so ‘interested’ in what you do for a living. They are underwriting you not seducing you. I’ve gone months with women who have no idea what I actually do. That’s how I want it. Sun is correct. I keep my work off the table indefinitely. They eventually must know. Just like they must know how tall you are at some point. The need to collect status metrics never really goes away.

    [So I usually explain it in a language they know: the lane change. “Well, I used to make a lot of money. I used to take women I was dating on sailing trips and jaunts to Europe for business. I was really into my career and making money and living the high life. But now I just love the simple life. Dating is about spending quality time together. Like a picnic in the park or a nice hike. Don’t you agree?”]

    And still they expect you to be all-in from the first minute, to be fed upon according to her plans. I blame a lot of it on the social media. Part of why I don’t play in that shallow pond. Though perhaps I should since I’m starting to think I may be missing some back-end code or secret language.

  5. @kobayashi

    You might wanna consider using the @notation to address other commenters. I’ve no idea what any of your responses on here went to.

  6. Sun,

    Agreed on the girl game. Hard lines are just being a bitch.

    I don’t care if she has standards, whatever, the guy can make his decisions accordingly. But a girl should allow the guy to make his move before she shuts anything down.

    Given the circumstances Culum could have taken a walk. I get why he didn’t, the night is blown by that time anyway, might as well get some practice in.

  7. @Striver

    I get why he didn’t, the night is blown by that time anyway, might as well get some practice in.

    I suppose. I guess personally I’m just at a point where I’ve done that dance enough times that I find it obnoxious and predictable. No longer really educational, ya know? When a woman starts that shit, I’d rather go elsewhere and just hope I hit a random cutie to try. Barring that I just chat up folks somewhere I frequent and start working on building some more social proof for the rare moments when chicks worth my time do show up.

  8. @Yollo
    I walk away like a little bitch and let everyone in the bar laugh at me and think I’m a huge pussy and then Chad Thundercock who was up in my grill fucks the shit out of the girl I was trying to bang.

    Nothing that happens in a bar is worth fighting over. I always walk away or get a bouncer. I’ll even leave the venue and go to a different one if I think it’s not a situation that will de-escalate.

    Other people’s fights I don’t get involved in at all, I just walk in the other direction instead of walking toward them to see them better or standing around gawking at them. I don’t have any interest in being mistaken for one of the guys involved in the fight and getting swept into it or tossed out.

    Guys I sarge who are into the fighting mindset (despite what a big pussy vagina I am I hang out with manly blue collar MMA construction etc types as much as I hang out with effeminate cityboy pansies, everyone loves me lol) I tell them flat out when we first start hanging out regularly that I don’t have their back in a fight. I’ll get them to a hospital or let their family know they’re in jail afterward but I won’t be jumping in to scrap with a bunch of idiot bar drunks over something that could’ve been avoided by just walking away instead of trying to protect mah street rep brah

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agvzE91Xfek

    Haven’t been in a fight since I was like 12 lol But I’m very aware of my surroundings and the risks of what I’m doing/saying and I always err on the side of caution first. And I don’t have the ego that gets most guys into fights where they’re somehow concerned that some people they’ll never see again and don’t even give a shit about and won’t remember them, will think they’re a pussy if they back down lol I’m at the bar to talk to and fuck girls, not to swing fists and end up disfigured or accidentally killing someone when their head bounces off the corner of a bar stool awkwardly.

    (and if I don’t want to leave I just use social pressure to get them to back down, search my archives for stuff on this…everyone caves to social pressure if you apply enough of it. The only ones who don’t are legit sociopaths and they generally aren’t out at a nightclub and are easy to spot because they’re missing half their teeth and covered in scars and shit from all the fucked up shit they’ve gotten into over the years…your random MMA buddy and jacked bro and tough old man who talks about how much ass he’d kick on forums like this aren’t legit sociopaths, they’ll all cave to social pressure if you figure out the right type and how much to apply)

    @Culum
    Massive props on pushing your comfort zone lately and you experiments with lasers and shit. Glad what I’ve been saying is making sense (dat field experience being king and all).

    One thing with the lasers is make sure it’s a relaxed lasers and not the bug-eye one…check the vids and my explanation of the difference here:

    http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/8/#comment-rationalmale-113726

    This is another good James Franco clip, dude has laser eye-contact on fucking lockdown:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhpGExo2hbs

    Look how it’s verrrry relaxed VS very intense like the 50 Shades dude. It’s the exact same eye-contact you’d make if you just woke up from banging a girl all night long and your hair is all disheveled and she’s asking what you want for breakfast curled up to you and you just kind of half-dozing look at her and drop into that low slow croaking/vocal fry/growling bedroom voice and your eyes are too heavy/tired to bother looking around the room they’ve found a focal point (her eyes) and are just lingering there enjoying it. I’m pretty sure that’s what makes it powerful for them, is you’re duplicating the subcomms of a guy who just got laid lol Being sick will often do this too, you’re too tired to look around all over the place and your voice is low and your movements are slower etc and a lot of the subcomms are the same, a lot of guys (myself included) have reported huge attraction when we sarge sick.

    Anyway props dude. I’ve been reading your shit but time is limited right now and you’re making good progress pushing yourself as it is. Attempting all that kissing stuff with this 38yo was good shit, like ya she’s not gonna put out ’cause she’s at that age where she HAS to lock a husband down, but like, if she was 32 or 25 etc what you were doing would have probably flipped her. And you held your frame and didn’t take it seriously or anything. Be careful to calibrate so it doesn’t come off rapey (lol) and keep your “this is no big deal I am just amusing myself” smile through it and give her chances to back away or leave etc but like, what you described was all awesome and half the reason is just because you were probably pushing way past your comfort zone.

    Like the other guys I also don’t tell them my career. There’s no reason for them to know. Most of the time if they ask me what I do for a living it’s because I’ve let the conversation get into boring talk so now she’s doing stuff like looking to see if my shoes match my belt and looking for a watch and finding out my job etc etc The stuff she’ll do if I’m not giving her more emotional impact to focus on…she doesn’t ACTUALLY care what I do for a living, she just doesn’t know how to fill conversation gaps except by asking resume questions like that because she’s a girl why WOULD she have the fine-tuned social skills that we develop, she has TITS lol If I’m lasering and running proper game she can’t even tell me what design is on my shirt or what color my shoes are because she’s fully focused on the emotional impact I’m giving her lol

    But on a dinner date etc it can be hard to keep the talk up, so I just make up a fake job and change subjects to her job.

    Also remember that part of what makes the lasering build sexual tension is cutting the space (look your dude-friend in the eye from across the room, then 6 feet away, then 6 inches away, the 6 inches feels fucking weird and fight or flighty but for girls that’s the butterflies in the stomach sexual tension feeling). It’s hard to do that at a table because you’re sitting across from eachother, but you can start by leaning back in your chair and then as she gets attracted lean forward on the table, often she’ll mirror you and you can both get your faces a lot closer leaning forwards (I specifically pick venues with small tables, some pubs etc have HUGE fucking tables that make it a nightmare, but a lot of shittier dive-bars will have little 2-3 chair round tables that are perfect (I arrive first and put my jacket etc on the 3rd chair and pull the 2nd in kino distance but facing me so I have lasers and light kino, and I arrange them so that my back is to a wall and her back is to the room so I can see any interrupts etc coming and all she sees is me and she forgets the room of people is behind her which helps her loosen up and lowers ASD etc).

    That all said, another opportunity to cut the space is when you both stand up to leave…that’s actually part of why having a couple venue changes helps (like Mystery says “I’d rather have 1 hour in 5 venues than 5 hours in 1 venue”), not only does it help with the comfort and time distortion stuff but every time you both stand up it gives you a chance to close the space a bit and get up in her grill lasering as you help her put her jacket on or hand her something or just tease her by not moving out of the way etc…even if you just laser and get close and then don’t actually kiss her, you’re building that tension. At the bar on Saturday I was making out with a blonde and kept doing Julien’s “laser and go in for the kiss but then turn and give her the cheek at the last second” thing over and over on a chick and she was loving it and kept coming back to me even though she had jacked dudes going for her lol cause I was building more sexual tension than them and leaving her devalidated etc.

    Making eye-contact will make you seem confident…making eye-contact while cutting the space will make you seem like a sexual “threat”…and like the old PUA saying goes: she should always feel that when she’s interacting with you she’s in imminent danger of being fucked. lol

  9. @Yollo
    I also warn girls I’m dating or take out for a night of drinking that I’m not going to clean up their messes if they get white girl wasted and start drama in the bar. I tell them that when I tell them to shut up they shut up and let me handle the situation (and talk the situation down) and if they open their mouths again I will flat out just walk away. They’ll turn around and I won’t be there because I’ll already be in a cab home texting some other girl who’s less drama. Only had to actually follow through on that a couple times lol

    Very few girls go “you’re not a real man you’re supposed to protect me” like most people would think…most girls are more like “wtf this guy has an enforces boundaries and doesn’t budge on them I think he really WOULD just walk away” and try not to fuck up lol Because it’s not like I let them think I WILL step up and protect them and then chicken out, I tell them flat out from the start that I expect them not to start shit with people and what will happen if they do so I’m actually following and enforcing my personal values/boundaries etc which is attractive.

    Guys will be like “this one time I punched this dude out and his head exploded and then his bitch sucked my dick in the bathroom”. Good on you, glad it worked out. More often than not the girl is gone by the time the fight is broken up, or she’s moved on to a different guy, or she’s drunk and crying her eyes out about other drama herself. I can get other girls in other venues on other nights, I don’t need THAT one she’s all yours brah, bye Felicia lol

  10. @Culum – Just riffing here, but I had a thought reading all the great feedback you got on your FR. I run into the same thing with these types of women, hence the idea.

    What about taking the posture of disqualifying by reading her intent and playing along and amplifying? You figured out she was husband searching, why not? “Okay, let’s see if we can find you husband material while we’re out? Cuz I’m the guy you ‘chill and watch netflix with’ so this is a bust for both of us.” Go up and approach men, introduce them to her, be teasing and then also work some other set while she’s talking to the choad you sicked on her? Gotta get her temp up somehow. I loved your aggression but it was too direct, as I think you know. DHVing by giving her to other men and chatting up other birds while you are out with her would be an interesting gambit.

    I only even think of this because I had the same issue on a date recently. The shield is just so high that you have go sideways at the hindbrain I think. I do think there has to be a way to be fuckbuddies or hangouts with these late 30 something types. They get attracted, you saw it and I’ve seen it. I also think the approach I laid out is consistent indirectly with some of the Shift stuff Ya has been talking about, and the serious, hardcore negging and disqualifying he’s doing. It also would be an emotional roller coaster for her – what would she make of you doing this?

    I haven’t tried it so maybe I’m just keboard jockeying. But I know this, I’ve got to take a different approach to spike the temps of these birds or I’m never going to get laid…

  11. “And now they want you to stick around for all the ass-injections of anti-attraction and nutritional seminars down at the non-judgmental rock-band church with a gourmet coffee bar.”

    “Honey-do-list weekends at the Ikea picking out shitty, knobless furniture while secretly checking the scores on your phone hoping nobody sees the deadness in your eyes.”

    God that made me laugh and cry at the same time, that’s the type pulling me into their orbit.

  12. They’re happy as fuck with how things are because they don’t see the long-term consequences of their current actions. They’re a beautiful mess and won’t figure that out until it blindsides them and they won’t be equipped to deal with it and those of us that could give them guidance will be long gone. That’s why red pill writing is important…it’ll outlive us all and may turn things around one day, long after we’re all dust.

    It’ll only outlive us if it gets printed, preferably in the form of hardcover books. Online content is rather transient, and won’t survive a bigger social crisis anyway. Centuries from now, people will want to find the answers why this civilization has gone to shit and collapsed. They won’t find them unless historians today and in the near future are willing to do their job properly, from a RP perspective.

  13. “That’s why red pill writing is important…it’ll outlive us all and may turn things around one day, long after we’re all dust.”

    “It’ll only outlive us if it gets printed, preferably in the form of hardcover books.”

    I think we might be a little too pessimistic. There’s this cool experiment with mice where each successive generation of mice could navigate a certain maze they had never seen before, completely untrained, faster than the generation before. Which is freaky in and of itself – but even FREAKIER is that successive generations of mice completely unrelated DNA wise in locations hundreds of miles away could also navigate that maze faster…. There’s no scientific explanation for it, but Rupert Sheldrake calls in morphic resonance. I’m hoping all of this applies to red-pill/gender dynamics.

    http://www.sheldrake.org/about-rupert-sheldrake/blog/rat-learning-and-morphic-resonance

    https://youtu.be/ZklRSn92ek4

  14. @culum

    Man that sounds like a brutal “date”… A few thoughts for you. You are really close I think to breaking things wide open, you’re just stuck in a rut of your own making…

    “I don’t normally go to girls but I ended up meeting at a bar near her place when she asked because I had been flaked on by someone else and asked her last minute, and the alternative was spending the evening alone.”

    False choice #1!!! The alternative was not to be alone, it was to GO OUT and do live cold approach pick up… It is always there, just waiting for you! Hit some bars, hit some hotels, shit man just stand on a street corner with traffic… go to Starbucks and chill. Endless opportunities and you will get much much better because, as I said in the last FR thread, everything is working in your favor… You get to explode yourself on a unsuspecting hindbrain, and not fight through a day or hours worth of forebrain preconfiguration…

    Imagine you met this exact girl on the street, instadated to a bar for a drink, ran you massive laser dominant kino game on her… in an area where you had logistics wired… would she be job interviewing you for Chump #56? Use strategy as well as tactics.

    False Choice #2!! “Because of the seating situation I couldn’t test compliance by pulling her into dominance kino”

    Wrong….! Who chose these seats? If it’s not to YOUR liking, start off with “hey let’s move over there” and lead her. boom… Beginning of the frame battle, and you will win… Or plan on bouncing her straight off someplace else “hey my ex is working here tonight, let’s move around the corner”… YOU CHOOSE the battlefield…

    False Choice #3!! “Lots of people were around near us and I just upped the dominance.”

    Waiting to up the dominance to the end… You should start moving in this direction after the ass grabbing… You see how she reacted right? She was totally turned on man… That’s because it’s direct hindbrain communication…

    False Choice #4!!! “She actually ran behind me (still laughing) and grabbed me by the shoulder. I kept walking..I don’t even remember what she said, because I just kept walking and kept repeating (over my shoulder) “No, no, if you want to talk to me, you need to kiss me..”

    Why oh why did you keep walking away???? Why not turn INTO her then and kiss her hard? Whisper sexy dominant things in her ear? She was chasing you and grabbing you!!! so she went home and rubbed one off solo… poor “girl”…

    “I’m not sure how much better I could have done here – she’s all in for her last chance saloon husband/baby daddy. ”

    Really? Not sure? Today after looking back at all this you’re not sure? Fuck her FI… IGNORE it. Pursue your plan. Men lead women follow. Is she going cockless until she gets a ring? Hell no. Be that cock. LOL

    “CHARACTER: HSE Good Girl. Obviously. Maybe a touch of Adventuress back in the day? With her history?”

    Good girl? LOL with her history indeed…. Born again virgin wanna be more like it. I think you should stop with the character assessments because it is going to put you always in her frame… AWALT always AWALT… always eggz seeking quality spermzzzz…

    Have fun!

  15. Niko
    Regarding contraception studies have shown that it affects mate selection that is; the hormones within the pill or contraceptives that combine oestrogen and progestorone mimic a condition where the body thinks its pregnant. Therefore mate selection alters for these women who select less threatening men.

    Can you point to these studies? A Medline link would be most helpful.

  16. @yareally

    “Making eye-contact will make you seem confident…making eye-contact while cutting the space will make you seem like a sexual “threat”…and like the old PUA saying goes: she should always feel that when she’s interacting with you she’s in imminent danger of being fucked. lol”

    I find that actually speaking in your mind amplifies the sexual vibe… so you are lasering and in your mind going “yeah. I know you know we want to fuck. we both know it”… and project that into the back of her head.

    Also helps to “force” sexualization by moving your focus from her eyes to her neck and to her lips… especially when she is speaking.

    So girl is “blah blah blah” and you are lasering her eyes, then just slowly move your eyes (not your head) slowly down from her eyes to her lips… hold stare a sec or two at her moving lips, then slowly shift to her collarbone area and back up her neck to her eyes… usually you will see her start that “self smile” that is an involuntary reflex that she is aware she is getting hot but doesn’t quite know why yet… then shift back to strong laser and smirk…

    sounds weird but as Julian might say it puts “pressure” on her… You are just obvi ignoring what she is saying and she is struggling to keep the convo flowing… instant bubble stuff.

  17. “It’ll only outlive us if it gets printed, preferably in the form of hardcover books. Online content is rather transient, and won’t survive a bigger social crisis anyway. Centuries from now, people will want to find the answers why this civilization has gone to shit and collapsed. They won’t find them unless historians today and in the near future are willing to do their job properly, from a RP perspective.”

    I’m not so sure it’s a cycle of centuries so much as decades (perhaps approximately 1.5 of them). “Beautiful messes” are flames that tend to burn out very quickly. That isn’t a lifestyle that endures very long and then it’s pretty much a billboard warning:
    “This is what death sucking on a lemon looks like…don’t let it happen to you”

  18. Rollo comes through with links
    So even women using HC will still manifest the same or similar behavioral effects of those phases during that cycle, but not to the same degree as women who don’t use HC. Women’s firmware is still attuned to that cycle.

    That’s the question I was trying to ask.

  19. I think we might be a little too pessimistic. There’s this cool experiment with mice where each successive generation of mice could navigate a certain maze they had never seen before, completely untrained, faster than the generation before. Which is freaky in and of itself – but even FREAKIER is that successive generations of mice completely unrelated DNA wise in locations hundreds of miles away could also navigate that maze faster

    I happen to remember another mice experiment that supports YeReally’s view:

    http://io9.gizmodo.com/how-rats-turned-their-private-paradise-into-a-terrifyin-1687584457

  20. I’m not so sure it’s a cycle of centuries so much as decades (perhaps approximately 1.5 of them). “Beautiful messes” are flames that tend to burn out very quickly. That isn’t a lifestyle that endures very long

    YaReally has made the point that the demographic below 25 doesn’t even want a way out of this spiral, and lacks the self-discipline to escape it anyway. I think he’s right, but the situation is even worse, because older people are also largely in the same situation. They cannot even conceptualize a culture that is markedly different from theirs. As long as social media, female economic independence, reliable contraception and legal abortion are here to stay, this lifestyle is also here to stay. Because the alternative isn’t even considered.

    I disagree with some of his predictions, though. There won’t be mass chaos, at least not on a national or state level. What we’ll have in the US, and Western Europe as well, is something like Brazil. There won’t be some sort of catharsis or coup de grace, there will be no epiphanies, no apologies, no contrition. The slow decline of this civilization will be akin to Chinese water torture.

  21. @Culum

    props on pushing outside your comfort zone…you are getting better for sure…i really liked your OODA loop on the walk to the car…lol…

    but you lost this one when you showed up, bc…

    ““No, no, no kissing on the first date” ”

    you were trapped in her frame for the whole thing bc you were on a ‘date’ = HER frame = looking for a provider = sex used as bargaining chip…

    as opposed to ‘hanging out’ = YOUR frame = authentic desire = sex as fun (which given her history of fb/casual sex, she obviously likes…lol)

    good luck!

  22. @Sentient – Holy shit, keep it coming. Learning a ton from your commentary and it’s motivating. I’m out coffee shop sarging later today. Thanks!

  23. @culum

    She was also talking about how she has given herself a deadline of age 40 to have kids (two years) and if she doesn’t make it by then she will never have them or adopt or something but she doesn’t want to “settle” and only wants to do it with the right guy. Erm..okay.

    If at this point you told her you had been snipped (whether true or not) how long do you think the rest of the date would have lasted, in seconds? This is the V test, is she after cock or sperm?

    Also some stuff about how she’s good with computers and is good at tracking down men …

    And these women know how to use linkedin, so if they know your first+last names they are certainly googling the shit out of you BEFORE the date to see if your sperm can pay child support, and the questions they ask on the date are just to see if you will lie.

  24. @scriblerg

    Thanks. You seem like an open minded chappie. Since you are going out today to sarge try an experiment.

    You know how much easier it is to approach when in “state” right? Like you can do anything. why? Because feelz are realzzz right? And as YaReally always says “what you feel she feels”. So a lot of guys cheat into state with numbing their systems via alcohol. Harder to do in daygame…

    But you can amp up our state dramatically with music. Music will change your feelings, i.e. change your brain chemistry. It is well documented. from stories of Lucifer being the angel in charge of worship and music and the devil rock and roll… through observations of ring walking MMA hype music to the stadium that erupts three beats into that House of Pain song… everyone moving 60 YO grannies… middle aged herbs… chicks going wild… and then poof the song stops and everyone is right back to observing…

    So change your brain chemistry by playing a sarge loop… pick out a few songs that make you feel powerful and energized… play them on a loop while you sarge around… feel the emotion… stride like a young king… slowly in beat…

    Then do some hand of god stops… watch the reaction. Hand out, don’t say anything for 5 seconds… just hand out and stop. she will give her hand while her eyes go wide like “whaaaaat is happening here”, then pop out your ear bud and open… LOL.

    Some of my favorites – will be different for everyone – Rage Against the Machine , Renegades of Funk – Sabotage, Beastie Boys – Eminence Front, The Who… on a loop over and over. Feel the dopamine release and the coiled power… you are in control of the world… Haha.

    Wala – as a DJ now, you must see a lot of this kind of state amping and building?

    Have fun!

  25. Women can be good at online stuff:

    Today’s Dear Abby:

    I have been married for 10 years. Four years ago, while waiting for our divorce to be finalized, I decided I’d start dating online and suggested she do the same. We were still friends, so I didn’t think it was crossing any boundaries.

    My online dating efforts were met with peculiar results. All of the six women I connected with either stood me up or made excuses why they couldn’t or wouldn’t meet me in person. Out of frustration I began dating my wife again and we canceled the divorce proceedings.

    About a year after we got back together, my wife confessed that the women I had reached out to online were all fictitious personae that she had constructed with the intent of exhausting my search efforts. It worked.

    We are now filing for divorce again …

  26. I wanted to bounce a bit off this neglected comment:

    bo jangles

    January 25th, 2016 at 10:16 pm

    I’ve got something for you Rollo. One interesting thing is that men and women generally respond very differently to stress(generally the response to stress hormonally is like the response to exercise). Men tend to become narcissistic and less social, and women become anxious and more social. It makes sense that during hunting or running away that the mind stop using portions certain portions of it, just as blood is shunted away from the stomach, and towards muscle. My theory is that men who treat women in a way that causes them great stress yet is able to keep her close by physical force or social ability(dread game, negs intermittent punishment/reward, even physical abuse), is rewarded with the borderline personality response(emotional justification, sexuality, desperation, worship). I believe people who are borderline/narcissitic, have above normal, test cortisol, adrenaline, noradrenaline(all tend to be produced at the same time from the same place-the adrenals). Note-testosterone isn’t only produced in the Testes.

    This is a bit sloppy, there’s too many loose ends. I don’t observe girls who are stressed out suddenly getting all histrionic and horny, often they just get grouchy and tired. At the same time, cluster B disorders definitely originate in a baseline of very high stress/anxiety carried over from what the baseline was in infancy, so the idea isn’t wholly without merit. I just think that there’s a missing element there – there needs to be not just stress, but anxiety about loss. Fear of abandonment is central to the BPD personality. Activating your emotions strongly, however she can, is one of the ways she tries to soothe that fear – if you’re angry, at least you still care.

    So it needs to be done a certain way. If done in that way, yes, a woman can start to gesture in the direction of BPD behaviors like you describe. Probably about up to the point where she subconsciously feels you can still ‘handle’ her.

    But mostly I found this interesting because it made me realize an error in my thinking. See, I’d been looking at a lot of game things as ‘alright, let’s think logically about how this impacts her rationalizations and thought processes, what will this make her wonder, how will she assess this action” and so on. As if it were all a process that originated in the neurons rather than, for instance, the gonads.

    But if you scare someone, they are easier to turn on. Not because of some weird overfitted overadaptionist handwaving evopsych thing like ‘women want men who can be intimidating therefore….’ but simply because sexual arousal shares chemicals with fear arousal. Same thing with angry. It’s not so much that making a woman angry makes her want to bone you bc of some hindbrain logic (though that may be part of it) but simply because anger is similar to arousal and sometimes our emotional wires cross.

    I’ve got some choice words about social trends in the works, but it’s a lot so I dunno if I’ll have time for that today lol. Cliff notes in case I don’t get around to it:

    – <25yo girls I've interacted with seem to have options like YaReally describes. Even the good girls raised in a strong Christian home now. Wasn't like that even a few years ago.
    – I'm afraid people are increasingly disengaging from reality. We talk about how betas are retreating into booze, porn and videogames. We talk less about how women are retreating into social media – such that it's not even a matter of competing for them in the right way, there is no right way, they aren’t even on the market, they have no needs left for a man to fill that’s worth the effort for them
    – Fuck wireheading. But that’s where we’re going currently.

  27. @Sentient
    “I find that actually speaking in your mind amplifies the sexual vibe… so you are lasering and in your mind going “yeah. I know you know we want to fuck. we both know it”… and project that into the back of her head.”

    If it helps, do it lol

    You can even verbalize it if you want (40 min and 39 sec into this vid):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EwPGtWaUOE&t=40m39s

    “Also helps to “force” sexualization by moving your focus from her eyes to her neck and to her lips… especially when she is speaking.”

    Trianglular gazing, oldschool tactic:

    http://www.pualingo.com/triangular-gazing/

    @hoellenhund2
    “I happen to remember another mice experiment that supports YeReally’s view:”

    lol’ed. And ya, that one doesn’t bode well for us.

    “I disagree with some of his predictions, though. There won’t be mass chaos, at least not on a national or state level.”

    Wait till all the other sexually frustrated 95% of guys see that the first beta uprising who doesn’t kill himself at the end of his shooting spree ends up with a fanclub of girls who want to fuck, date, marry and have kids with him. It will be a nightmare that snowballs way past what anyone can imagine.

    That’s part of why it’s important to get this information out now and why I stress in MSM appearances just focus on reaching the guys in the audience not Oprah and The View chicks sitting across from you, and why I like Sandman and his clear concise bite-size videos that pop up when you type MGTOW, and why I’m here in the Manosphere clearing up misconceptions about PUA…we just need to give as many men a chance of finding a way out of those negative frustrated mindsets as soon as possible. That’s why I don’t care if they choose MGTOW, MRA, PUA, TRP, Manosphere, hell even Roosh’s cult, whatever, it’s all good it all helps them escape the plantation or see some kind of hope or protect themselves or not commit suicide, like through whatever method they need to understand that they were sold a pack of lies and there are solutions out there.

    @Sentient
    “But you can amp up our state dramatically with music.”

    This is key. I’m sure I’ve mentioned it before but like, you have to program your brain with good shit. Society is programming you with garbage, from music to movies etc it’s all Blue Pill mindset shit, songs about chasing The One and missing a girl and movies where guys are fighting over some average chick and trying to woo her with flowers, newspapers full of dumbed down stories and blogs full of shock stories and nightly newscasts about all the worst shit happening in society because that’s what people tune in to hear about (the news is designed to send you on an emotional rollercoaster, bunch of negative stories and then aww the local puppy shelter held a bake sale look at the cute puppy, rinse repeat).

    Program your brain. Control the content you consume and pick content that puts you in a good state and keeps you in positive mindsets. I still listen to angsty weepy music and I still watch sad/deep movies, but I watch them on like, a Sunday or Monday where I’m not going out socializing lol Once Wednesday hits it’s all positive and all awesomeness. I play RSD vids all the time that’s why I know which vids to link when subjects come up, because the content in them is a thousand times better than some depressing weepy emo rant by some negative vblogger that’s going viral and everyone else is consuming.

    When I go out solo I spent a few hours before the bar just blasting and singing along to good music as I shower up, compliment myself in the mirror affirmation-style about how awesome I am, plaster a fake smile on my face (change your physiology and all that, the smile eventually becomes real), visualize opening sets successfully, watch funny shit on YouTube, I’ll watch a few episodes of Keys to the VIP or some pickup infield etc so when I head out I’m feeling good and social. It doesn’t just magically HAPPEN…it’s like the gym, most people don’t WANT to go to the gym when they wake up, but they find ways to get themselves there because they made a commitment and once they get there with their headphones on etc they enjoy it but like most people don’t come home from an 8 hour shift and lay around for a few hours lethargically staring at a TV screen zoning out like a zombie till 8pm and then go “I WANNA GO SOCIALIZE WITH STRANGERS ALL BY MYSELF IN A HIGH-ENERGY ENVIRONMENT WOOO!!!” But you made a commitment so you take pro-active steps to get yourself out of a negative zombie introvert mode and into a social positive extrovert mode. It’s on YOU to do that.

    I had to do it Saturday, wing was out of town so I had to hit a kiddie nightclub solo. Was so close to bailing but I try to never miss Fri & Sat (I’ve had years where I’ve literally only missed a couple of them) unless like, I’m on the verge of death ill and even THEN I’ll pop some meds and dristan and get out there. This Saturday I could’ve just gone back to sleep. No one would have known. I could have even told people I went out and just made a Field Report up for my buddies, no one would ever find out my little secret. It would be soooo easy, I’m soooo tired and underslept and this bed is sooooo comfy and I can’t visualize anything but failure all I picture is me being low-energy tired and standing around in a corner all night I might as well not go no one is going to want to interact with that guy and I can’t see myself turning this around in just a few hours ughhhh…

    But I made a commitment. So I roll out of bed, flip on the lights, put music on and start my process. Had one of my best nights in a long time, making out with a hot blonde, solid number from another girl, opened a bunch of other chicks, befriended random dudes, made friends with a bartender, went along on an adventure to an epic afterparty full of strangers and hooked up. Could never have imagined that was going to happen when I was laying there like a zombie thinking about bailing.

    Like the PUA saying goes: “I’ve never regretted a night out, but I always regret staying in.”

    Don’t let society program your brain, it wants you docile and retarded and lethargic and self-doubting so you stay in line. Society’s programming is how you GOT here in the first place. Take pro-active steps to program it with good healthy positive shit. Save the zombie mode for lazy days.

    (when I go out with buddies I’ll sometimes go out with lower energy or a zombie state because I know I can ride their energy a bit, but if it’s a solo night or we’re hitting a high-energy venue I pump my state for it because why wouldn’t you do your stretches before the big game? Common sense)

    “Wala – as a DJ now, you must see a lot of this kind of state amping and building?”

    That’s literally the purpose of a DJ. Like Tyler says: a lot of guys forget that a bar/club is designed to pump your state. It’s not SUPPOSED to be a hellish nightmare obstacle course that makes you feel bad…everything IN there, from the booze to the music to the dance floor to the lights and smoke and entertainers and girls dancing and social bartenders and shit, it’s all designed to help people pump their state and forget about their shitty lives lol

    Girls are amazing in that they fully understand pumping their state, even if they don’t do it consciously. That’s why girls are always the first ones on the dance floor and why they scream OMG when they see eachother and get shitfaced and dance on the stripper pole and shit, they’re doing stuff that gets them outside their head and pumps their state and gets them living in the present moment fully unstifled saying and doing whatever comes to mind without hesitation no fucks given what anyone thinks YOLO!!!!!, while guys stand around trying to be James Bond fully stifled and inside their heads and overthinking everything and worrying about how they look or what people think of them.

    @Forge the Sky
    “I’m afraid people are increasingly disengaging from reality. We talk about how betas are retreating into booze, porn and videogames.”

    The diff between what men and women are doing is that men’s antisocial shit they’re falling into will fuck over their chances of replication. But women with their social media you could argue that it’s actually optimal for them to be obsessed with social media because they can land Justin Beiber if they put up the right Instagram pic of their ass. The problem is 99% of them won’t get Beiber but also won’t be satisfied with Joe Accountant because they think they CAN get Beiber, so their Hypergamy will never be satisfied. Which is why I can’t imagine settling down and marrying a chick…even if I could make sure she doesn’t have a single bad feels day in 40 years, I can’t keep some AAA celeb from Liking her Instagram pic and if I ban her from all social media I’m an abusive controlling monster and her friends will sabotage us. I don’t see a way to win that game. In a pLTR I could keep her in enough dread and keep my value up enough that I satisfy her Hypergamy for the most part, but in a traditional monoLTR? Not a chance. Tie half my assets and visitation of my children to her in that arrangement? lol fuck no.

    “We talk less about how women are retreating into social media – such that it’s not even a matter of competing for them in the right way, there is no right way, they aren’t even on the market, they have no needs left for a man to fill that’s worth the effort for them”

    This. It’s fascinating to see, but is a huge monkey wrench. This is also why I always stress infield experience and like, while I love some of the older settled down guys here and respect their opinions and all, if they aren’t out there trying to actively stick their dick in <25yo poon they don't understand how fast things are changing and how fast their information becomes outdated. No one saw this shit coming back when we were carrying around shitty Motorola Razors that could barely load the internet and had 100 text a month limits and shit lol And you can't just know this is happening if you aren't out there infield or surrounded by guys who are reporting what they're finding out there.

    Field is king.

  28. @ya

    “Don’t let society program your brain, it wants you docile and retarded and lethargic and self-doubting so you stay in line. Society’s programming is how you GOT here in the first place. Take pro-active steps to program it with good healthy positive shit. Save the zombie mode for lazy days.”

    so much this.
    society pushes so much shit on everyone.
    like you talk to people and so many of them just have these cookie-cutter ‘aspirations’ and ‘goals’ and thoughts about life.

    if you eat what society feeds you, then you are just going to think you’re a worthless piece of shit that needs to make a ton of money but enjoy none of it and accept a shiftless existence as a slave to your woman, to defer to her and her craziness in all ways and to never question anything about the world you live in.

    you’ll also probably hate a lot of groups of people based on other shit that comes down from the mountain, or have a lot of thoughts about them.

    you gotta build your own kingdom and stop living in someone else’s.

    “That’s literally the purpose of a DJ. Like Tyler says: a lot of guys forget that a bar/club is designed to pump your state. It’s not SUPPOSED to be a hellish nightmare obstacle course that makes you feel bad”

    yeah, i mean, it’s literally a grown-up FUNHOUSE. the ENTIRE environment is WORKING to get you laid. that’s why YOU have to PAY to get in. women don’t need to pay…the environment is FOR MEN TO USE.

    you just need to USE the environment.

  29. What is the Brazil example?

    An ethnically diverse, heavily stratified, stagnant, violent society which the outside world calls patriarchal and macho, but is in effect a feminized matriarchy.

    The government, the armed forces and the economy are all controlled by a small, very wealthy, closed, self-perpetuating elite that is predominantly white, and lives in luxurious, isolated gated communities defended by armed mercenaries who shoot all intruders without warning.

    The middle class is a relatively small demographic that is mostly white, and it’s mostly employed by the state bureaucracy and state-owned companies.

    The largest demographic is the huge underclass living in the squalid, impoverished shantytowns which are effectively ungoverned areas. Blacks and nonwhites in general are overrepresented among them. The underclass is largely permitted to behave and live as it wants as long as they confine themselves to their favelas. They are kept in a permanent state of submission, disorientation and degeneracy through meager welfare handouts, soap operas and other forms of frivolous entertainment, cheap alcohol and drugs, porn, heavy-handed police methods and death squads.

    Social trust is low, all forms of crime are rampant, large areas are pretty much ruled by drug cartels and other organized crime groups. Kidnapping is a small industry.

    This is the future of the USA and Western Europe.

  30. http://abcnews.go.com/US/miami-doctor-accused-attacking-uber-driver-calls-biggest/story?id=36542246

    “After THINGS “get physical”” (because they “just happen”, really who can place the blame, we certainly can’t blame her initiating the physical assault so let’s just say “things got physical”, look people MISTAKES WERE MADE)

    “…and she’s PUSHED TO THE GROUND” (NOW we can blame someone, look at that monster pushing this helpless little girl to the ground!!!)

    The whole thing is fucking funny and sad. You could literally predict everything this apology contains, from dramatic shots of her overlooking the city to sad pained music, to her bullshit excuses about why that “wasn’t me” and how that’s never happened, to all her bullshit about how responsible she was being, to the photos of her being a nice innocent normal girl. The news anchor even gives her the out of “you seemed to snap” so she can say it was all totally out of character and her lowest point in her life bla bla bla.

    GUARANTEED this chick acts like this EVERY FUCKING WEEKEND she parties. 100%. And if her med career wasn’t at risk she wouldn’t be apologizing at all, she would be saying “fuck that asshole for not driving me”. She advises “We should be careful what we do in public because we can be taped and face severe consequences for these things.” …THAT’S the reason we shouldn’t be a shitty person to other people? Because we might get caught and face consequences for our actions? Not because, you know, you should just not be an asshole? lol

    But hey, she’s receiving “mean messages on the cyberspace” so let’s all coddle her and just give her her diploma and send her to the White House to shake Obama’s hand for being so brave and strong.

    At least she wasn’t able to claim the Uber driver tried to rape her, props to whoever filmed and posted this shit.

  31. btw they conveniently forgot to mention:

    “the girl decides to reach into the front seat, grab his keys, and start walking away with his keys in her hands…. That’s where the video starts…”

    “The girl eventually got up from the area the cops had told her to sit and wait, and tried to walk away from the scene.

    Once in handcuffs, she then tried kicking some of the police officers on the scene. It was only when they put her in the police car that she started crying, apologizing, and claiming that she would lose her medical license (she claimed to be a neurologist) if she got arrested.”

    lol

    Also the Uber guy jumped the FUCK out of the cab as soon as she got in ’cause he knows that’s full out FRA territory right there. Dude has clearly driven some drunk bitches home lol

    “The Uber driver was too good of a person and decided to take a cash settlement instead of pressing charges”

    Let’s just make sure that beta men know that if they let women get away with shitty behavior they’re “good people”, they totes might get laid.

    This girl will be doing the exact same shit a year from now when she’s forgotten about the consequences, except she’ll attack the guy holding the camera too.

  32. @Sentient – Great reco. One of the shockers of my Red Pill journey (now 53, woke up 3 yrs ago) is how I’ve come to like old school hip hop. Snoop, Biggie, Tupac, Ice Cube and on and on. It puts me in a rock out with your cock out vibe and i’m listening right now.

    Mini-FR – I’m in a cafe where I know the owner well and the staff. I have some status from work I did for the owner a while back as a consultant. They hire a constant stream of 20something hotties from the local college. There is this one HB7, 21 maybe who I caught giving me IOIs in the past while she was working and I was chilling and working. We’ve talked but I’ve been careful to not show too much interest. I have lasered her from across the room a few times and she dug it and smiled.

    In she walks today while I’m here – at first I don’t recognize her, as I usually see her in the brown tee shirt and jeans she works in. She’s in leggings and hair is nice, she’s looking very nice. She’s checking her schedule and I don’t initiate convo or eye contact until she does, with the usual big smile she gives me, sparkly eyes. Fyi, I can tell the difference between someone being nice and there being a spark and there is a spark there. I pull my earbuds off, still in state, and say, “I barely recognized you.” She responds, “I know you always see me when I’m in that ugly brown tee shirt.” And I’m lost. Her ugly, scowling friend is sitting there, waiting for her and I go all chode. “Yeah, when you walked in I didn’t even recognize you. I was like who’s that..and then I realized it was you.” and trail off she acknowledges the flattery and I watch the flame sputter out.

    I realized afterwards I should have taken the opposite tack. “Yeah, whew, that brown shirt makes you look like a 40 yr old mexican housekeeper” or some other shit. Instead, I went into flattery mode, she became the prize.

    This fucking happens to me every time now. I open good, right energy and when they respond well, I shit my pants. it’s all about being 53 and being 20 lbs overweight (I keep fucking about with my weight, it’s like I want to make myself look worse than I have to). I look good still though, I carry it well and am high energy and the chippies respond. But just like this one, every time I get the good vibe, I shit myself and start qualifying. It was different 20 years ago – I had different problems back then but often saw myself as the prize. It’s like now, the idea of fucking a hottie I’m not soft-sugar daddying (which I don’t do anymore, used to “mentor” and help out here and there, cook for them, weed, etc. – and it was of course all on their terms and rarely hot sex, although sometimes it was pretty good), well it just blows my mind. I can’t picture it and I get like a pussy beggar in a way I haven’t when I was younger. It’s like “truth” to me – they are the prize.

    Every cold approach goes the same. Fyi, I HAVE NO PROBLEM OPENING. I can open anyone, anywhere, anytime. In fact, another issue coming up in my head is that feel like I’m getting known as a bit of a player in this cafe cuz i open up and work the girls here when I’m in (once every week or two).

    Essentially what I do is throw myself out of the set and miscalibrate and become a pussy beggar – last time was a 20 minute version of that. I’m still not the prize. This is THE ISSUE for old man game. What makes it maddening is that I have a number of little contacts like this one percolating along and I keep fucking it up when I go for it.

    Off to the gym later. Done all the right things today, working, gaming, eating etc. All I can effect is now. Listening to 2Pac right now.

  33. YaReally,

    Wait till all the other sexually frustrated 95% of guys see that the first beta uprising who doesn’t kill himself at the end of his shooting spree ends up with a fanclub of girls who want to fuck, date, marry and have kids with him. It will be a nightmare that snowballs way past what anyone can imagine.

    Kinda already happened.

    Here’s a picture of James Holme’s wall in prison.

    http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2356099.1441921761!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/letters11n-4-web.jpg

    An article describing the thousands of letters with lipstick and perfume on them he got, girls driving across the country to see his court hearings and ‘mouthing things’ at him from their seats, etc:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/james-holmes-fan-mail-reveals-sick-fixatation-killer-article-1.2356103

  34. ” I pull my earbuds off, still in state, and say, “I barely recognized you.” She responds, “I know you always see me when I’m in that ugly brown tee shirt.” And I’m lost. Her ugly, scowling friend is sitting there, waiting for her and I go all chode. “Yeah, when you walked in I didn’t even recognize you. I was like who’s that..and then I realized it was you.” and trail off she acknowledges the flattery and I watch the flame sputter out.”

    lol this girl is practically bending over for you, jesus….THIS IS VULGAR TO READ.

    and then…WHEN YOU ARE GIVEN THE WORLD….when she trusts you to man up and just GIVE HER ANY EXCUSE to come sit on your lap, you…..

    say….

    what you said.

    omg so painful to read. i’m sure it was painful for you to experience.
    these are good moments. a lot of guys around these parts like to talk a lot of shit about how they just want an opportunity, they want to compete with a girl’s cellphone, blah blah blah…but most of them, when they are given A HUGE opportunity — like this one — a) don’t realize it’s an opportunity (it seems like this isn’t you) or b) choke!

    the right thing to do is RIGHT THEN AND THERE ask her for her number, to hangout sometime, etc. etc. etc.

    “I realized afterwards I should have taken the opposite tack. “Yeah, whew, that brown shirt makes you look like a 40 yr old mexican housekeeper” or some other shit. Instead, I went into flattery mode, she became the prize.”

    LOLNO.
    you don’t need to do this. she’s already yours. NEVER OVERGAME.
    just be a fucking lion and pounce that prey.

    now you can be smooth or cool about getting her to hangout or getting her number or whatever else….but it’s not necessary. even if it’s the dumbest fucking clumsiest way of all time, it’s still way manlier than pretty much any other option.

    “Every cold approach goes the same. Fyi, I HAVE NO PROBLEM OPENING”

    ya, you just need to start closing. just from her walking in and talking to you and talking about her stupid t-shirt you should already be thinking ‘holy shit she really wants to suck my dick…she wants to suck my dick so much that I’M BEING RUDE TO HER BY NOT MAKING IT EASIER FOR HER TO DO THAT in a socially appropriate way”).

    “I’m still not the prize. This is THE ISSUE for old man game.”

    nah get out of your head. fuck abstracting it to the level of ‘who’s the prize.’ just hone your basest manly instinct: PULL THE FUCKING TRIGGER. ESCALATE AS SOON AS YOU SEE AN OPENING.

    if you become good at that the rest follows. there’s nothing more masculine (or sexy) to a woman than a guy who can just seize every last opportunity without question or hesitation.

    you practically had an X-rated movie right there in front of you…you just don’t see it that way because you’re not in the ‘club’ yet and you doubt yourself.

    whereas a guy like me reads the first paragraph and i’m biting my fucking fist lmao omg.

  35. @scribblerg

    hehehe I’m 48… Good stuff, it’s all fun right?

    Try this next time you have your buds in:

    I pull my earbuds off, still in state, and say, “check this out” and put one in her ear… this brings her close. Now you can start to state transfer! You ar ein state… put the bud in her ear, laser her, some kino if you can… just rock out for 20-30 seconds, lasering her – no words. Then nod your head “it’s good yeah?”… play off her vibe then.

    ” I can open anyone, anywhere, anytime.” – he he the old saying on the course is drive for show – put for dough… always be closing is a good motto…

    Which is why I like SNL game, it focuses your efforts, you are less inclined to drift… you still crash and burn a lot but at least you have an end point. LOL

    “I’m still not the prize. This is THE ISSUE for old man game. ”

    NOOOOOOOO! No non, nada… the issue has nothing to do with old man, it has to do with you not thinking you are the prize. Accept that new reality – you are the prize…

    Enjoy!

    PS – a word about local spots… I find you will burn them because attraction is so ephemeral… if you don’t strike when you have it and you keep seeing the same girls over and over, you end up friendzoning yourself…

  36. “PS – a word about local spots… I find you will burn them because attraction is so ephemeral… if you don’t strike when you have it and you keep seeing the same girls over and over, you end up friendzoning yourself…”

    yes and no. what friendzones you is building too much comfort and letting it outpace attraction.

    there are alpha orbiters and beta orbiters. beta orbiters invest a lot of comfort time into a relationship with someone — emotional tampon, etc. alpha orbiting is very light. every time you see them, you flirt, and you make it sexual. that’s it, that’s all. nothing else to talk about.

    i have a lot of local spots i frequent and i just flirt. why? b/c i kno that whenever i invite any of the hbs out with my group and if we get a little toasted, it’s on. but i’m not investing ANY comfort in those relationships until i get in a situation where i can act on the attraction.

  37. @Scribble “I’m still not the prize. This is THE ISSUE for old man game. ”

    You have a dick; girls have pussies. Your old dick looks just like it did when you were thirty, Seriously, if a 20-year-old girl was giving you head and all she could see in her field of vision was the tip of your dick, at that moment, would she be able to tell you were 50+? lol.

  38. @newlyaloof

    “Your old dick looks just like it did when you were thirty,”

    Really? Mine looks bigger… at least that’s what I keep telling my wife…

    Me: Damn
    Her: What is it!
    Me:IDK… My dick is getting bigger, isn’t it?
    Her:Asshole
    Me: Seriously, it’s swelling up!

  39. This article has got a lot of “actionable intelligence”. Thats what I love about TRM.
    Yareally had covered an aspect of this in some comment eons ago. But this deep dive helps us apply Dread with more precision.

    Understand the why of things and then one can come up with unique tactics pertinent to the situation rather than regurgitate standard pickup lines and rehearsed tactics while waiting for the right moment to use them.

    I see Game as more about being a smooth operator than just either wanton or hesitant superimposition of one’s frame and will on others.

    “… is that she should probably trust that you’re not out ACTIVELY SEEKING other women to mess around with …”
    I wouldn’t bother.

    “That generation will grow up even more fucked up”
    “with a 19yo giving me head as I watch it all burn down”
    You mean a fucked up 19yo. You trust her enough with your family Jewels 😉

    “Sorta smart guys become engineers.
    Very smart guys become physicists.
    World class intellects study math.”
    Hey!!!! Where do the doctors fit in ?

    “They liked me because of my own intellectual quirks, freakish abstract reasoning and verbal skills, top .3%, and this gave me confidence”

    No other man in this comments section seeks validation from other high value men like you do. Maybe occupational hazard. You do get some tingles out of it.

    “Guys who fuck about with philosophy do so cuz they want to seem smart”
    And then there are those who want the truth
    And then there are those who want power.

    “And fuck every MGTOW who settles for less, they don’t get my respect cuz they didn’t earn it.”
    MGTOWs didn’t ask for your respect but you give them your indignation for free.

    “DHVing by giving her to other men and chatting up other birds while you are out with her would be an interesting gambit.”
    hmmm, got to give that you think very well on your feet.

  40. “(and if I don’t want to leave I just use social pressure to get them to back down, search my archives for stuff on this…everyone caves to social pressure if you apply enough of it. The only ones who don’t are legit sociopaths and they generally aren’t out at a nightclub and are easy to spot because they’re missing half their teeth and covered in scars and shit from all the fucked up shit they’ve gotten into over the years…your random MMA buddy and jacked bro and tough old man who talks about how much ass he’d kick on forums like this aren’t legit sociopaths, they’ll all cave to social pressure if you figure out the right type and how much to apply)”

    I may be dense, but I am always fascinated by this idea of social pressure. Even more strange is that people cave to it so willingly.

    I’m no Sociopath, but I don’t feel the need to bow to pressure, social or otherwise. That’s as natural to me as breathing.

    I love me some Ya, but , lol, guys need to learn to defend themselves. If you learn to properly defend yourself, you won’y ( likely ) be missing teeth and become riddled with scars.

    But I do see some people, mainly chicks, cave to social pressure. Lmao, fuck social pressure. I respect societal norms mostly, but ” pressure ” can eat a bowl of dicks.

    Am I wrong? ( nah..)

  41. @scribblerg
    “Essentially what I do is throw myself out of the set and miscalibrate and become a pussy beggar – last time was a 20 minute version of that. I’m still not the prize. This is THE ISSUE for old man game. What makes it maddening is that I have a number of little contacts like this one percolating along and I keep fucking it up when I go for it. ”

    It’s funny because this is 100% social conditioning. In another culture where older men are respected and admired and where a large age difference is normal, you would have all the confidence you had in your 20s. But your entire life society has fed you a non-stop barrage of “being an old man is low value, young hot girls can’t like old men, you’re too fat, you’re ugly, you’re a loser, you’re so creepy hitting on girls half your age, ugh what a CREEPER, you CREEPY OLD MAN IN A CAFE CREEPING OUT THE GIRLS CREEEEEEEP…you aren’t even giving them MONEY? Or WEED?? You’re a CREEPY OLD MAN you have LOW VALUE you can’t just be attractive to them for your strong dominant frame and life experience and wisdom and assuredness of yourself and social proof and preselection you build up etc, no you’re a CREEPY LOSER OLD MAN who needs to bribe her with stuff to get her to stick around, you should just be happy she’s AROUND who cares if she’s attracted??? That’s the best you can do you LOSER CREEPY OLD MAN HITTING ON GIRLS HALF YOUR AGE IN A CAFE UGHHHHH”

    How could you possibly feel entitled to her with that kind of shitty wiring driven into you? But understand that it’s your wiring from a western value system that’s fucking you up. If you could turn off all that bullshit, you could just BE confident and feel entitled to her. A lot of this process will be unwiring that shit.

    But it’s hard because how do you do that? You don’t know any 50+yo players slaying younger poon you can hang out with. Media doesn’t show that stuff (although now that a lot of alpha male actors are older there are more examples of it than 10-20 years ago…Californication is a great example of a cool attractive older man, Duchoveny is in his 50s by the end of the show, same with the guy playing Lew Ashby. I know people have qualms with the character but I found the show to be a GREAT inspiration in terms of “man, he’s not really doing anything that I can’t do at that age, he’s just running basic game and most of the girls I know who watch this show would fuck his brains out”). Women are going to tell you to stick to your “appropriate age range”, a bunch of used up 38yo wrinkled chicks with baggage making you wait for sex because they’re looking for a husband. Fuck all that.

    That’s why groups like this are important, where you can talk to other guys (AND SHARE FIELD REPORTS, EVEN IF IT’S PRIVATELY IN E-MAIL ETC) around your age range trying to do the same thing. And watch shows like Californication…fuck the shows that show a “badass” older man, focus on shows that show a SEXY older man. Google male celebrity ages (actors, musicians, etc) in their various roles in movies and shit. Check out fangirl pages for older male celebrities. Hit up young venues and chat with the hot bartenders and see if you can get some iois and open any girls that order drinks beside you etc just to gather tiny little iois here and there from younger chicks. All this stuff adds up and helps normalize the idea that “I can be attractive to younger women”.

    @Forge
    “Here’s a picture of James Holme’s wall in prison.”

    Except that he wasn’t a beta uprising guy, he was just batshit (unintentional pun lol). When the first incel who’s goes Eliot Rodgers “I can’t get a girl to like me and now I’m going to kill a bunch of people” and doesn’t kill himself in the end gets the Holmes fanclub treatment, THAT’S when shit is going to hit the fan. ’cause that gives them a path to pussy attention that no one else gave them ’cause we didn’t reach them ’cause we were too busy in-fighting about what pussies MRAs are and how PUA is all a scam etc

    @scray
    “but most of them, when they are given A HUGE opportunity — like this one — a) don’t realize it’s an opportunity (it seems like this isn’t you) or b) choke!”

    lol ya I always say the biggest diff between my highest-poon-slaying Natural buddy and most guys is that he sees the windows of opportunity and takes them while other guys question them or miss them or second-guess them or wait too long. He doesn’t even always take them smoothly, but he takes them and sees where they go. The risk is that “ah what if I fuck it up and it’s awkward and I can’t go to this coffee shop anymore”, but that’s why we encourage guys to go out to bars parks etc instead of relying on shitting where you eat, where you won’t have that “but what if it goes bad??” thought holding you back.

    @Sentient @scribblerg
    “NOOOOOOOO! No non, nada… the issue has nothing to do with old man, it has to do with you not thinking you are the prize. ”

    This. Every time you say “old man game”, you’re trying to differentiate it from “young man game” which is just a special snowflake way of being the emo 14yo kid who “NOBODY CAN UNDERSTAND MY PROBLEMS THEY’RE DIFFERENT YOU GUYS JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT’S LIKE FOR ME”. Every time you do that you’re building up a barrier to your own success because your brain is saying “that might work for THOSE guys, but it won’t work for ME” and going to have resistance.

    Like ya, there are a few things here and there that are different being older but it’s not this huge insurmountable wall you’re building up in your head to explain a lack of success. That shit will start to turn into an identity and then you’re REALLY fucked.

    RSD Ozzie is running the same high-fiving spin-hugging game the 25yo instructors are running but he fully believes he deserves the girls. You might want to check out his stuff though I don’t think he has any real official product just YouTube vids of him talking. Dude puts me to sleep with his speaking style but the reality is he’s like 50 now and still doing stuff like this:

    Infield at 1 minute into this video and 3:20 (he gets the girl on him instead of on the younger cooler guy) and more infield at 4 minutes in (the girl can pick the tall younger better looking guys but she’s busy interacting with Ozzie who looks like a sweaty drunk old homeless man off the street lol but he’s making emotional impact and feels ENTITLED to her)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGt8AWqfsQI&t=1m

    Ozzie running Group Theory to get through a group to his target, who’s excited to meet him because he’s just DHV’ed a bunch (even in his plain ol’ t-shirt, but WOT WAT ABOUT TEH OLD MAN SUIT OLD MEN MUST WEAR SOOTS!!!):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZFIJx3YkRE

    I don’t wanna hear this “old man game” shit lol

    @scray
    “what friendzones you is building too much comfort and letting it outpace attraction.”

    Good summary. This is why normal AFC guys get friendzoned, their entire approach is based on “if I build enough Comfort she’ll fall in love with me”. Same with guys in the bar, they approach with “hey so what’s your name do you come here often do you go to school here” Comfort zzzzzzz because they don’t have Attraction. Mystery Method goes A1-3, C1-3, S1-3 for a reason. She doesn’t want Comfort with you until she’s Attracted to you and showing you interest, and she doesn’t show interest until you’ve demonstrated value, etc etc. It’s all broken down right there in classic MM lol You don’t give her a chance for Comfort until she’s giving you IOIs AND you Qualify her, because she hasn’t EARNED your interest in getting Comfort with her. But guys just go right for C1. That’s why I can blow them out when I’m running Attraction shit that has WAY more emotional impact than their gay Comfort attempts.

  42. @Yareally

    “n love with me”. Same with guys in the bar, they approach with “hey so what’s your name do you come here often do you go to school here” Comfort zzzzzzz because they don’t have Attraction. ”

    Funny though, the Julian Chill Pick up you posted 80% of his verbal was the 7 Deadly Questions… You can get away with that if you have a good frame and subcoms…

    And AWALT – the other Julian vid with the (Master’s Degree seeking) stripper he opens with “you look so innocent”… LOL Great vid. Def watch it… great showing how much more verbally facile girls are all the time, answers for everything… and take Julian a while to catch up to her speed. Really good stuff.

  43. I’m afraid people are increasingly disengaging from reality. We talk about how betas are retreating into booze, porn and videogames. We talk less about how women are retreating into social media

    False parallel. For women, social media is not an escape from reality. It IS reality. THEIR daily reality. Their escape from reality are romance novels and other forms of emotional porn.

  44. ““The Uber driver was too good of a person and decided to take a cash settlement instead of pressing charges”
    Let’s just make sure that beta men know that if they let women get away with shitty behavior they’re “good people”, they totes might get laid.””

    Actually, the driver opted for an undisclosed cash settlement. Pressing charges would impede his lawyerless monetary gains.

    “This girl will be doing the exact same shit a year from now when she’s forgotten about the consequences, except she’ll attack the guy holding the camera too.”
    She has been suspended from her hospital.
    People who watched her video never want to be her patients, ever.
    Men would fk her, but none would marry her.

    She knows about it as much. She will never forget the consequences.

  45. @Blaximus
    “I may be dense, but I am always fascinated by this idea of social pressure. Even more strange is that people cave to it so willingly.”

    If you’ve ever not sworn around kids, you’ve caved to social pressure. If you’ve ever worn a suit to a wedding, you’ve caved to social pressure. If you’ve ever addressed an older person as Sir or Ma’am in your youth, you’ve caved to social pressure. If you’ve ever not backed down from a potential fight because you didn’t want to look/feel like a pussy, you’ve caved to social pressure.

    You just don’t see it as such because you picture social pressure as me rounding up the kids in the schoolyard to call you a poopy-head or someone standing backwards in an elevator and you wouldn’t cave to that.

    “I love me some Ya, but , lol, guys need to learn to defend themselves. If you learn to properly defend yourself, you won’y ( likely ) be missing teeth and become riddled with scars.”

    The vast VAST majority of guys who pick up missing teeth and scars from bar altercations could have simply walked away but they caved to the social pressure of not wanting to look like a pussy and backing down.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfMbN_MzCpw

    Like he says “I’m not going to fight you, I have kids” He’s actually resisting the social pressure to fight by not fighting them and getting his ass kicked and potentially dying and leaving his kids without a father or provider.

    But even in this example he could’ve handled the loud kids a lot better. I’d have joked around with them and asked what they were celebrating and congratulated them and then talked to them like human beings relating that I’m on a date and it’s the first time I’ve been able to escape my kids to hang out with a chick and asked them to help wingman me by keeping it down so we can chat etc. Or even better I’d have used it as an opportunity to pull “too loud in here, let’s go for a walk” and take her to my place to bone.

    There’s a dozen other ways he could’ve handled that instead of scolding them like a dick and starting the chain of events that led to where he’s emasculated in front of his date like that.

    Nothing that happens in a bar is worth getting in a fight over. I just walk away. That’s why I’m still pretty after years of sarging in venues full of angry sexually frustrated young dudes with too much energy to burn off lol

  46. “you practically had an X-rated movie right there in front of you…you just don’t see it that way because you’re not in the ‘club’ yet and you doubt yourself.

    whereas a guy like me reads the first paragraph and i’m biting my fucking fist lmao omg.”

    Hate to just copy/paste my stuff but I don’t have time to make it original right now lol.

    I was talking with HABD on the ‘Teachable Moment’ thread earlier and something I said there is relevant:

    “Heh, I remember Steve Jabba (a natural who got into PUA) saying that if a girl stands near him for more than a few seconds he knows she wants to fuck him – it’s just a matter of his taking action and not fucking up the seduction process.

    There are two things I’ve really zeroed in on as being crucial to the well-laid man’s mindset. I get flashes of them myself and it’s crazy what can happen then lol.

    First, it is crucial that you have a strong emotional pull towards the girl. You need to really like her and get drawn into the process, then she’ll follow suit. Or at least hate her if she’s LSE lol that can work fine too.

    Second, girls are generally very receptive to sex if you know how to look for the ones signalling it – and the signalling is deliberately obfuscated by society and conditioning so only a few men see ‘through the matrix.’ See through that and you see opportunities left and right, the only thing left to do is 1. logistics 2. don’t fuck up the seduction process and 3. take action.

    Example – secretary at my work (one of the cute-but-not-stunning girls) will often let me know when I’ve got a client. Sometimes she’ll pop her head in the door and pipe up, “Hey, John’s here for you” or whatever. Just practical. Then other times she walks into my office, stands right next to me at my desk, and hands me their paperwork while looking me in the eyes, stand there a second as I look it over, then leave. (Aside – she did that yesterday and I didn’t say anything, just patted her on the low back but except I ‘missed’ and basically clapped her in the ass as I smirked at her. She didn’t miss a beat, just stood there a second longer and then left, looking a bit flushed.)

    So most guys wouldn’t think that her walking in means much. “Oh, sometimes she just comes in to give me the paperwork, maybe it’s just that she has an extra second and when she’s busy she doesn’t” if they think about it at all.

    But

    Think about if you were married to the girl, and instead of calling you when dinner is ready or popping her head in to you study she walked in, stood next to you, and just said “I’ve got dinner ready” and then just stood there a second.

    At that point it would just be me deciding whether I was in the mood to take her there to be fun and spontaneous or if I wanted to tease her across the table a bit then escalate to heavy petting during dishes and then take her on the cleared table after.

    But because I haven’t served the FI by committing to her, I’m not supposed to think that, if we were just in a different location, I could be banging her inside 15 minutes just cause she came and stood next to me for a second.”

    A huge part of the red pill is this lesson – wrt sex, girls act no differently towards you based upon your degree of commitment to them. It doesn’t matter if you don’t know her. If she’s doing so little as hanging around you when she doesn’t have to, bang, she’s down if you don’t fuck it up.

    That’s why things like this can look x-rated to Scray and guys who see this – in most guy’s heads it’s just ‘oh, she’s over there now, oh she looked at me I’ll give a little wave’ and to him, he’s seen what’s really going on when you can actualize it so it’s more like ‘holy hell did you see that?! That preen, if we weren’t in public she’d be taking her top off now…Holy crap, she’s standing by me I might have my dick in her within the hour!’ lol.

  47. @Blaximus
    P.S. If you cringe watching that Louie vid, like it grates on your SOUL and it’s difficult to watch him be that emasculated, you’re caving to social pressure. Because logically with no emotions involved he’s making the right decision: de-escalate the situation so that he can go home to his kids. That’s the right move. The reasons why it’s cringe-worth come from social pressure (“but he looks like a pussy!!” “but that girl won’t bang him (scarcity mindset)” “but he let some other guy tool him!!” (embarrassment based on “what do other people think of me/him?” why does their opinion matter?) etc etc.

    End of the day his character isn’t in the hospital (even if he was a super ninja badass like you he’d have to take on an entire team of young wrestlers or whatever, life isn’t a Jackie Chan movie lol), or jail (if he DOES win, that kid isn’t gonna stop till Louie MAKES him stop, enjoy the legal hassles and potential jailtime and financial hit), or the morgue (one wrong head-bounce off the edge of that coffee table), and his kids still have a father/provider to take care of them. He can get other pussy and that chick won’t stick around to raise his kids for him if he’s dead or disabled and can’t work.

    All the macho “but bro you gotta step up when you get disrespected bro, who cares if you get knocked out and disfigured and can’t take care of your kids at least you were a MAN bro” is social conditioning and social pressure.

  48. “I’m now switching to calling instead of texting”

    I have never sent a text in my life and I probably never will. I have never encountered a situation in work, social or romantic settings that has required one.

    because of my marital status I have to be careful with game. besides solo day game and flirting at night when out in social situations or with wifey, I started online because I can totally control how it goes. because of my job and the size of my town I do not have a picture or anything in my profile. the results have been interesting.

    I only contact the hottest girls and only when they are actually online. it’s crazy hard to build value with these 2016 girls with no picture or info but I am able to get blind meets with regularity.

    a few things that I think help: I never ask for numbers. if my game is on they volunteer them. I never text, only call and never when they expect and only to settle logistics for meets.

    the “mystery man” thing seems to work as I never get asked about my job or any provider kind of stuff. My guess is they assume I’m up to no good and they’re down to play along.

    I go days without logging in and when I do the messages are piled up. stuff like “jerk”, “asshole”, “rude” are common after their messages aren’t returned for days because either my balls are drained more than usual or I’m legit busy with other stuff. they can tell when your balls are drained. they have a sixth sense for it and it drives them crazy.

    these girls are so used to having guys at their beck and call that some dude with no pic, no info, who exchanged maybe five messages on a dating site can hold their attention and get them to propose the meet.

    the less I do and say the more effective I am. when I do send a message it’s always logistics. “meet me right now for drinks/darts/espresso/pool” etc.

    these girls are down for fun with total strangers they haven’t even seen. looks don’t matter. just attitude. and by the time we do meet they’ve built me up so much in their head that it doesn’t even matter what I look like. Rollo is absolutely correct about imagination.

  49. @Sun Wukong, YaReally

    Forever in debt to your priceless advice.

    I still think I’m cooler than the average bear for my mystical bullet deflecting penis techniques.

  50. @Sentient
    “Funny though, the Julian Chill Pick up you posted 80% of his verbal was the 7 Deadly Questions… You can get away with that if you have a good frame and subcoms…”

    When Julien is doing his Comfort he’s doing it WITH Attraction (A3). ie – he’s doing breaking rapport “How old are you.” as if she’s not good enough for him and he’s trying to DISqualify her. Whereas most guys are going “How old are you?? 🙂 🙂 (raising voice tonality seeking rapport)”. Julien is basically Qualifying/screening her WITH the questions themselves. He explains a lot of this in PIMP when he talks about how to ask the “boring questions” with different intent behind them, and he’ll do push/pull by changing that intent from seeking to breaking etc.

    That’s why I say what Julien is doing is basically a condensed really efficient version of Mystery Method. A newbie should learn Mystery Method and then check out Julien’s stuff and look for the connections. Julien started out on classic MM, he’s just figured out how to cram and overlap it together into something more efficient to counter the ADD culture of 2016 girls.

    It’s pretty fucking genius really and I don’t think many people learn both MM and Julien’s stuff to draw the connection and appreciate how smart Julien is lol

    “and take Julian a while to catch up to her speed.”

    Ya that was one of the big takeaways from those vids is that Julien’s highlight reels on YouTube look great and if a guy’s in state he can pull that off, but most of the time we all start out feeling like chodes that can’t get our brains and mouths to work right, but Julien starts off the same way. He just trusts the process and takes specific action to get his brain unstifled to where he’s doing what he does in highlight reels. Dude is simply human like any of us.

    @Shiva
    “Actually, the driver opted for an undisclosed cash settlement. Pressing charges would impede his lawyerless monetary gains.”

    lol she settled AT the scene, do you think she just whipped out $500k and that guy is buying a BMW to Uber in? “In his words, “…she was crying (and) said (she) was sorry for everything.” I don’t want to disclose the amount the driver was paid, but can say he could only use the money to pay his cellphone bill and maybeee his cable bill.” He basically took whatever cash she probably had on her because she’s blowing her student loans on shots at the bar (or rather her boyfriend did that night) so she can get wasted like that video.

    @Forge the Sky
    ““Heh, I remember Steve Jabba (a natural who got into PUA) saying that if a girl stands near him for more than a few seconds he knows she wants to fuck him – it’s just a matter of his taking action and not fucking up the seduction process.”

    pAImAI:

    http://ipua.blogspot.ca/2006/07/interesting-article-paimai-by.html

  51. “I don’t wanna hear this “old man game” shit lol”

    That’s why I refer to silverhead/back/whatever game instead. It implies maturity, power, dominance and being the prize.

    It think, however, when you get here, you will find that there are some differences in the game, but they are largely implied in the above.

    It’s a game of an iron fist in a velvet glove. More projection of raw power, but with more practiced subtlety than a young man can pull off. Isolation and discretion become more important, because the opinion of the girl’s gaggle is amped by an order of magnitude. As I have written before, young women open to fucking older men will tend qualify themselves. There is more emphasis on being the one chased.

    Draw them out, than draw them in.

  52. ” All the macho “but bro you gotta step up when you get disrespected bro, who cares if you get knocked out and disfigured and can’t take care of your kids at least you were a MAN bro” is social conditioning and social pressure.”

    Lol. See, these thoughts never enter my mind.

    Okay, frinstance – sociopath starts shit with me. Sociopath is relentless. Depending on how I feel about it that particular day, I might just want to see if I can shut his mouth and teach him a painful lesson. I don’t have to do anything, it’s my option. It’s not so much about social conditioning in my case, or having to do something because of any slight or disrespect, and it’s got nothing to do with anyone else’s perceptions. It’s a personal moment from one man to another. I may walk away or I might decide to see if this guy can stand up against some ferocious body shots. If he’s talking the talk, I might make him walk the walk. Lol.

    Fisticuffs is a highly personal thing between 2 guys. The idiots out in the world operating off of some half-assed bravado type thing, trying to impress themselves or others by their silly actions, they are a joke.

    How will they learn to be better men without suffering some slings and arrows?

    But I get your vibe. I got no issue with that. It’s smart.

    If we were out together, you wouldn’t have to leave a venue. Trust that. Oh, and I have all of my teeth ( except a few the dentist had to pull out ) and I’ve never been locked up for whooping some assholes behind.

    That shit’s for amateurs.

    LMAO!!!!

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y28SoWEnPHY?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D

  53. @kfg
    An iron fist in a velvet glove where you view yourself as the prize and project raw power with practiced subtlety, isolate and be extremely discrete, and making women qualify themselves to you and chase you IS GAME. It’s not OLD MAN game. It’s GAME. That’s what proper game is SUPPOSED to look like lol

    Younger guys can “get away” with running sloppy game, but that’s what they’re doing: running sloppy game.

    What “old man game” is is simply properly following “game” and crossing your Ts and dotting your Is the way you’re supposed to be doing.

    The problem is younger guys generally don’t have enough solid oak tree internals to run that game without being a little sloppy. But that “old man game” is the end goal of game. It’s what all of this shit is to teach a guy to learn how to do lol

  54. @Blaximus
    “I might just want to see if I can shut his mouth and teach him a painful lesson”

    Well, then you make stupid decisions. lol. And are bad at risk assessment and possibly have a lacking understanding of the legal system.

    That’s not even an insult that’s just a logical assessment the same way someone who drives drunk is making a stupid decision and bad at risk assessment and hasn’t thought through the potential legal consequences etc. (not to mention the chance of killing someone else)

    I mean, it would be better if you WERE caving to social pressure to not be disrespected because at least then you’d know fighting is a stupid decision but would just be weak instead of ACTIVELY making stupid decisions.

    Like I get that it sounds super cool to you and you’re Vin Diesel in your head, but it’s a stupid decision to make. And that’s okay, you can do whatever you want, but like, it’s stupid in the way that purposely choosing to drive drunk is stupid.

    “Fisticuffs is a highly personal thing between 2 guys.”

    Bla bla bla lol It’s not samurais on a battlefield fighting to avenge their family. It’s two drunk idiots throwing fists over some bar chick who doesn’t give a fuck about either of them.

    “The idiots out in the world operating off of some half-assed bravado type thing, trying to impress themselves or others by their silly actions, they are a joke.”

    …you get the irony of writing that after your last two comments, right?

    “But I get your vibe. I got no issue with that. It’s smart.”

    That’s why you can’t get mad about my calling your decision stupid. If you’re doing the opposite of me and my decision is smart then yours is by default “not smart”.

    “If we were out together, you wouldn’t have to leave a venue.”

    We wouldn’t BE out together, because in your mind it’s an option to go shut some guy’s mouth up and teach him a painful lesson. I minimize the time I spend around people who will inevitably bring me more trouble/drama than I want. Nothing personal, we just have very different views of what’s acceptable behavior in a social setting.

    Guys here (especially the old guys who think they’re super manly) think I’m running around with a bunch of Tylers and Juliens, like I don’t hang out with tough manly dudes who can kick a bunch of ass and shit, like I don’t know what it’s like to have guys tell me they have my back if shit goes down bla bla bla I’ve been sarging for years and I’m friends with all sorts of different groups, I know guys just like you and I’ve been out with guys just like you and I’ve had these exact conversations with guys just like you lol

    Being randomly attacked/jumped/robbed etc is different, there’s no real option to de-escalate those situations. Fighting in that situation is fine. But I stand by my assertion that the vast VAST majority of fights can be avoided, and nothing that happens in a bar is worth fighting over especially not some guy cracking mama jokes from across the room.

    I liked your movie scene. Here’s one from real life. Everyone thinks they’ll be the guy standing at the end, no one thinks they’ll be the guy unconscious getting his head repeatedly smashed into the cement:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpFa6F98ssc

    But hey, the risks you want to take with your kids/family’s future are your own decision. I’m happy with mine so far, don’t throw any fists on my account there are a dozen other bars up the street with booze and girls and I can get laid there just like I could at that first bar lol I’d rather we went out for a beer and the night ended up with two 21yos riding our dicks instead of you knocking someone’s teeth in.

  55. @Ya

    Lol, of course there’s a term for it. I despair of originality :p

    Cool reframe for people who didn’t read the link: “However, guys must understand that once a chick has thrown out one or more AIs in a short period of time (couple minutes), it’s akin to an “approach” for her and a guy not responding to that is like a rejection to her. DO you realize how many chicks any one of us might have rejected in our lifetimes without ever knowing it?”

    Basically ScribblerG just rejected that chick without even trying.

  56. “That shit’s for amateurs.”

    did you really just post a scene from a movie?

    that DEFINITELY is NOT how it goes down. that’s a movie.

    i know a lot of dudes who can beat the shit out of people. i box.

    and ya, the shit you’re saying has some validity in a CLOSED social circle where everyone knows everyone else and it’s at like a house party. in those environments, ya we’ll horse around, get crazy, do whatever we want

    but in the wider world….
    nah man.

    it only takes one time for someone to have a gun or a knife.
    or for his friend to sucker punch, shoot, or stab you.

  57. “Younger guys can “get away” with running sloppy game, but that’s what they’re doing: running sloppy game.”

    And older men can’t so much. That’s the difference.

    The game is the same, the rules are the same, so the strategy is the same, but the “player stats” are different. Different strengths and weaknesses. Tactics adapt.

    A 20 year old can only “do” James Bond or Sgt. Rock as entertaining schtick. If he tried to do it seriously he’d only look ridiculous. A 50 year old can do it as someone has been there, done that, and is still present because he kicked everyone’s ass on the way.

    “But that “old man game” is the end goal of game. It’s what all of this shit is to teach a guy to learn how to do lol”

    I don’t disagree.

  58. @scribblerg jan 27 at 12:05p

    ok, bro, it’s time for some tough love…lol…

    i was going to address some of your ‘issues’ before (when i first got here from CH), but haven’t had time to get into in properly (i don’t have a lot of time right now) but i’m going to make some for you tonight bc this shit is toxic… check back

  59. “DO you realize how many chicks any one of us might have rejected in our lifetimes without ever knowing it?””

    As a younger man I didn’t. My wife’s mate guarding behaviour taught me.

    As an older man I am more aware, and thus do it on purpose.

  60. “And older men can’t so much. That’s the difference.”

    every man can. any guy who just pulls the trigger and escalates and fuck all else will be both sloppy and probably pretty good with women.

    this is just self-limiting stuff. every man is capable of fucking any woman.
    every pairing you can think of re: age has happened. and it’s happened in situations that fly in the face of every single limiting belief you have about it.

    “A 20 year old can only “do” James Bond or Sgt. Rock as entertaining schtick. If he tried to do it seriously he’d only look ridiculous”

    that shit is always ridiculous and only somewhat works for people who naturally ‘LOOK’ like those archetypes.

    it works for the 50 year old because when the 50 year old OPENS HIS MOUTH and DOES THE THINGS, he conveys that experience and value.
    it all comes down to the DHV…the wallflower shit is gay at 20 and at 50.

    i see these chodes every fucking weekend. they dont get pussy.
    i take girls from them by just being a goddamned dirtbag and putting my tongue down a girl’s throat as soon as i see the opportunity.

    the older guys i kno who hook up with chicks way younger than them (ya in my large social circle i can think of 4 off top of my head) are cool dudes who are fun to be around.

  61. I think there is something to this “older man game is harder” idea. Older men are judged even more harshly than younger men because they are expected to have even more success, even more achievements, even more money, simply by virtue of having been on the planet longer. Plus, there are the questions a woman might have. If he’s never been married, she might wonder why. Is there something wrong with him. If he’s divorced, are there children. Does she want to get involved with someone who has kids, etc.

    So, I think it’s not as simple as it just being a mindset issue. Sure, confidence covers a multitude of qualms, but big age gap relationships are really not all that common. A man can be disqualified merely on age alone. It’s not impossible to pull off a May/December, but it does have a higher degree of difficulty. – Kate

  62. @Forge the Sky
    “Cool reframe for people who didn’t read the link: “However, guys must understand that once a chick has thrown out one or more AIs in a short period of time (couple minutes), it’s akin to an “approach” for her and a guy not responding to that is like a rejection to her. DO you realize how many chicks any one of us might have rejected in our lifetimes without ever knowing it?”

    Basically ScribblerG just rejected that chick without even trying.”

    This. I try to explain this to guys. Like, that’s her THROWING HERSELF at you, she’s actually EMBARRASSED at how hard she’s acting like a SLUT when she stands beside you…so when you don’t open her you reject her. That’s why when you don’t make a move when they open a window for you, they slam that window and you will NEVER get another shot. Because you just did the equivalent of when a guy gets turned down in public for his marriage proposal. She risked her entire social reputation and ego and everything throwing herself at you by touching your arm and you humiliated her by not reciprocating her interest so you are DONE and she wants to run away and avoid bad feels lol

    @scray @Blaximus
    “and ya, the shit you’re saying has some validity in a CLOSED social circle where everyone knows everyone else and it’s at like a house party. in those environments, ya we’ll horse around, get crazy, do whatever we want””

    This. Again it’s not like the old guys think where I just don’t understand these dynamics because I don’t fight so I can’t possibly get the mentality that these guys have or anything. I’ve seen more bar/street fights than most guys here because I’m out in those venues more often than most guys ever were. I put in more time in bars in a year than most guys do in 5 years.

    “it only takes one time for someone to have a gun or a knife. or for his friend to sucker punch, shoot, or stab you.”

    Yup. I heart you old guys but this isn’t the 1940s where you had a schoolyard scrap. This is 2016. You punch out the wrong dude and one of his buddies txts 6 of his other buddies and they jump you with weapons when you’re not paying attention or they see you a week later.

    @kfg
    “And older men can’t so much. That’s the difference.”

    That’s my point. Older guys aren’t running “old man game”, they have to run “proper game”, like the young guys SHOULD be running.

    You don’t have two math exams and say “this exam you can get a 50% grade and pass but this one you have to get 100%” and say you’re learning two different types of math. You’re still doing the same math you’re just doing it properly like the guy writing the 50% exam SHOULD be doing but probably isn’t and can get away with not doing…but the ultimate goal is the math the 100% exam guy is doing, and the 50% guy is SUPPOSED to be getting 100% on that 50% exam.

    But when a guy like scribblerg builds up in his head “oh I have this DIFFERENT math to learn, those guys don’t get it and can’t teach me I have to figure this out on my own they can’t understand what it’s like for me with this DIFFERENT math” it’s like no, shut up, you’re doing the same math, you just have to do it PROPERLY like RSD Ozzie does lol Don’t hide behind this bullshit “different math” excuse. You’re not breaking new ground, other guys your age have written the same exam and gotten 100%, just tighten your shit up and put in your field hours so you don’t write “sloppy math”.

    The only real difference is you get less mistakes, but everyone’s goal should be to make no mistakes in the first place. There’s no separate set of rules or anything.

  63. Okay Ya. We just see things a little different.

    I think people should be able to go about their lives unacosted. I also think that not everyone should run from bullies and assholes all of the time.

    I can’t quite make out what’s happening in the video, but in my experience, most guys that talk shit can’t back it up. Lol, I’ve never been knocked out like the dude in the street.

    But, I learned a different life lesson than you did. I take self defense extremely seriously. It’s been one of the BEST decisions I’ve ever made, and I will always recommend that all men learn some things to protect themselves.

    One last thing, to be clear, I’m not talking about the loudmouth guy cracking momma jokes at all. I think we are on 2 different ideas here. I’m talking about the guy that’s all over you, threatening you, getting ready to sneak you in the head. Not the pansy just talking shit.

    But, whatevs man.

    We’ve seen different worlds. I’ve seen nice guys avoiding conflict get pummeled.

    It’s all good Brotato Chip. : ) You will always be my man!

    Guys reading here, I advise young cats to learn to defend yourselves for when you aren’t being allowed to walk away. It feels exceptionally good not to fear any man ( except the heavily armed ones ). If I have to, I’d rather go to jail than to go to the hospital or morgue. It’s got nothing at all to do with ” Macho ” or any such thing. Walk away when you can, always, but end it when you aren’t being allowed to walk away. The dude on the ground in the video above? Lmfao, he should get his skills up or keep his mouth shut.

  64. @Blaximus
    “I think people should be able to go about their lives unacosted.”

    Unless you decide you don’t like the person, then it’s cool. Will the courts agree? Who knows. But I wouldn’t risk not being able to provide for my family on it. That would be my priority though, you have different ones and that’s cool I legitimately hope you’re always the Vin Diesel in those situations and not the guy unconscious getting his head stomped in lol

    “I take self defense extremely seriously. It’s been one of the BEST decisions I’ve ever made, and I will always recommend that all men learn some things to protect themselves.”

    Ya it’s awesome. I’ve never said not to do self-defense shit. But you should be doing everything you can do to avoid having to use it, not walking around punching people’s lights out ’cause “depends what kind of mood I’m in maybe I just wanna knock his teeth in and see if he learns a lesson” Both you and him can get the fuck out of my bar, the rest of us are here to have a fun time lol And a good instructor should be teaching you to avoid using it and how to talk your way out of a situation and de-escalate it. It’s self-DEFENSE.

    “I’m talking about the guy that’s all over you, threatening you, getting ready to sneak you in the head. Not the pansy just talking shit.”

    You know why I don’t end up in those situations? Because I don’t do the monkey dance that leads UP to being in that situation. Those situations generally start AS pansy talking shit but the guy being chirped at decides to play along with the monkey dance and let it all escalate to where you want to step in. It shouldn’t get that far, the guy being chirped at should have walked away long ago.

    “We’ve seen different worlds. I’ve seen nice guys avoiding conflict get pummeled.”

    Like I say if someone jumps me for no reason at all, cool, but the vast VAST majority of the time the “nice guy avoiding conflict” got himself into that situation by being retarded or hanging out with people who are retarded and escalated the situation for him (which is why I don’t hang around guys or girls who get wasted and pick fights).

    “Guys reading here, I advise young cats to learn to defend yourselves for when you aren’t being allowed to walk away.”

    Agreed. If you are trapped in the corner of an alleyway with guys surrounding you, cool, hope you took a class to defend yourself from that shit. But in a fucking BAR with a TEAM OF BOUNCERS who’s JOB is to HANDLE DISPUTES, you have EVERY option in the world to walk away.

    “It feels exceptionally good not to fear any man”

    Agreed. I don’t really fear anyone because I’m socially savvy enough not to have to fear that a guy is going to get mad enough at me to beat my head in. Because I learned game and how to talk those situations down. Yes, I’ve hung out in scary dive bars, biker bars, etc and yes I’ve been in situations that COULD have turned into me getting my head beat in. But I de-escalate the situation and/or walk away.

    “Walk away when you can, always, but end it when you aren’t being allowed to walk away.”

    Then we agree. Anything that happens in a bar isn’t worth fighting over because you have AMPLE opportunities to walk away or handle the situation in other ways (bouncers, de-escalating, running like a bitch, etc) in a bar.

    “The dude on the ground in the video above? Lmfao, he should get his skills up or keep his mouth shut.”

    They got into an argument inside the venue and when they got outside it turned into that. Dude could have handled the situation a thousand other ways, from not getting into an argument to leaving out the back door to calling the cops to running like a bitch to immediately hopping in a cab etc etc but he “felt exceptionally good not fearing any man” and decided to walk out into range of this guy and ended up in a coma.

  65. ” . . . this is just self-limiting stuff.”

    I work to limit myself to what I want. Are you under the impression that I’m implying older men can’t get young women? I’ve mentioned a number of times that I have to be careful, because women who open me not infrequently turn out to be under the limit.

    “”every man is capable of fucking any woman.”

    But every man is not capable of fucking every woman the same way at the same time.

    ” . . .only somewhat works for people who naturally ‘LOOK’ like those archetypes.”

    http://therationalmale.com/2016/01/25/ovulation-dread/#comment-137443

    “it works for the 50 year old because when the 50 year old OPENS HIS MOUTH and DOES THE THINGS, he conveys that experience and value.”

    Which is credible.

    ” . . . cool dudes who are fun to be around.”

    And as I have written before, if you are not that guy, make yourself that guy. If you are interesting, you will attract interest.

  66. Ya… The bouncer guy you keep referring to? That was me. I bounced in a strip club for 5 years.

    I’m not sure what scray means about closed circles and horsing around. This is why I say we are coming at the subject from waaayyy different perspectives. I am talking about wider circles…not people who know each other or something..

    Guys calling 6 guys…wha?? Vin diesel??

    I’m confused about what you guys mean, so I’m gonna leave it alone now.

  67. @kfg

    ” Are you under the impression that I’m implying older men can’t get young women?”

    no, but you literally just said that older men can’t get away with sloppy game the way younger men can. the field doesn’t bear this out.

    “But every man is not capable of fucking every woman the same way at the same time.”

    based on what, exactly? how do you know that every single woman doesn’t want to be fucked in the same way at the same time by you?

  68. @Blaximus

    While I agree guys need to learn to fight, part of learning it is learning what’s worth fighting over and what isn’t. Fighting a drunk dipshit with a bad attitude because his Game sucks and yours doesn’t? Not worth it. Calm him down, enjoy the rest of your evening. I’ve even managed to do it basically every time without once implying that 1) I’d lose 2) I’m scared or 3) anybody needs to lose face.

    YaReally’s technique is a little different than mine, but his objective is exactly the same as mine: don’t ruin a good evening with a fight. It just ain’t worth it. I’m not out there trying to change the world or defend my honor or prove that I’m tough. I always keep a smile on my face, remain calm, but make it clear that I won’t be intimidated by fear or goaded in to anger. I keep my eye on the goal: I’m out there to have a good time and get laid. Can’t get laid in a jail cell or the hospital.

    Those bullies and assholes won’t learn shit from my beating them up, and they sure won’t learn if I underestimate them and they hammer me. Why do you think by their 20s, 30s, or hell even 40s they still haven’t learned? They aren’t going to. Assholes gonna asshole; giving them a fight is just giving them what they want.

    For the record, every fight I’ve nearly wound up in for the past few months, I’m 100% certain I could have hammered the guys in to the ground. They were soft, weak pussies who had whiny and/or White Knight mannerisms to them. Easy prey. I’d have wrecked them. But then I’d have had to fill out the paperwork, pay for a lawyer, maybe spend a couple nights in the pokey… fuck that noise. I got better shit to do and nothing to prove to anyone but myself.

  69. “. . . it’s the perception that they SHOULD have actualized this that is the attractant in comparison to younger guys who haven’t, nor would really be expected to.”

    This. Which doesn’t change the game, but it does change the tactics.

    ” – exactly what women are looking for in a phase of life where their sexual marketability declines . . .”

    Although I try to limit myself to what I want and this is over my limit.

  70. @Blaximus
    “This is why I say we are coming at the subject from waaayyy different perspectives.”

    Yes, your perspective is old and outdated. That’s not an insult that’s just reality. Unless your stripclub bouncer days were the last 5 years lol You know how we keep talking about how all this social media and smartphone shit has changed things in 2016 with girls? Well guys have changed too.

    You see how I COMPLETELY give no fucks about your “manly fighting honor code” and just completely ridicule it? Like how I have ZERO “sense of honor as a man” and all that?

    Imagine a group of 6 guys like me, drunk and angry and sexually frustrated and too young to understand long-term consequences, carrying around knives and guns and shit on us or in our car because we’ve been programmed by media (that didn’t exist when you were a kid) to think that that’s COOL and BADASS and that shooting people up to get revenge is a good way to handle disagreements.

    That’s what a lot of young culture in these scenes is like now, especially if you hang out in the shittier venues that are known to have gang members and shit in them. You think these guys give a shit about the “personal man to man connection of fighting”? These aren’t even always dirty scumbags a lot of them are rich kids with too much money to care about consequences, or are connected to the ACTUAL scary people.

    A nice guy buddy of mine was almost convinced by one of these idiots to buy a gun to keep under his pillow literally “so if someone pops off at you you can whip it out. Dude you’d get so much pussy if you had a gun”

    When a guy in a bar steps up to you in 2016 it’s often not because he’s some cowboy planning to one-on-one fisticuffs fight you and then shake hands. It’s because he knows his 5 buddies are circling around you ready to fuck you up if you start winning the fight you’re being sucked into because you didn’t just walk away.

    Talking your way out of those situations is a lot smarter.

    Welcome to 2016 grandpa, the world has changed. 😉

  71. “I’m not sure what scray means about closed circles and horsing around.”

    i mean that’s where fighting takes on the ‘personal’ nature you’re describing.

    out in the world no one gives a fuck about you. no one cares about getting personal.

    this isn’t Bushido-land, man. it’s real.

    the guys i kno are tough guys. some compete. fighters.

    and ALL OF THEM has the same exact attitude about fighting. they will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS just walk away first and ONLY fight if they literally CANNOT get away or run away.

  72. @A Boy’s Guide

    Well at least your handle is honest… really it amazes me here, CH everywhere young guys, always the young guys, actively arguing against the endless reality 40-50 even 60 YO guys are posting on a regular basis about pulling women 20-30-35 years younger them? Your post is pure KJ stuff.

    Reality is real. Get over it. Young girl older guy, It’s not common only because guys are not even trying or half assing it when they do try a little bit. Believe me, when you are 40 – 50 – 60 and have some game you are massively advantaged over 24 YO dudes… just based on your life experience and maturity.

    Don’t fight it… embrace and look forward to being older because I’m telling you things are great…. just make sure you have some game. You have some right? Because you need it at 24 anyway…

  73. @”based on what, exactly?”

    When I walk into a room full of under age girls I don’t know only some of them throw themselves at me, or any other man.

    Win the chess world championship, then play the exact same game every time subsequently, and you will never win another game. Because that’s the way shit works.

    There is no “perfect” game.

  74. SJF,

    From a red pill father of a 14 year old type 1 son, thank you for disclosing the condition. It adds even more value to your already high credibility in my book. You and several others on here do so much for so many.

  75. @Scray: Betas pick fights because they have something to prove. Alphas avoid fights because they have something to lose.

  76. @Sun

    I agree fully with your take. Maybe it’s just that I’ve dealt with a different caliber of asshole. Ya seems to be talking more along the lines of a guy ” posturing “. I’m talking about a guy that’s made up his mind to take things to blows.

    I get defusing. In my bouncer days I’ve never had to punch anyone. Not in 5 years.

    ” Why do you think by their 20s, 30s, or hell even 40s they still haven’t learned? They aren’t going to. Assholes gonna asshole; giving them a fight is just giving them what they want.”

    Absolutely agree 100%.

    Maybe my experiences are so different from Ya that we just won’t agree. Like, I never look to law enforcement to protect me because in my life, they never have. By the same token, they aren’t around to help when I need them, so they won’t be around to arrest me if I put somebody to sleep. : ) It sounds trite, but that’s the way it’s been in my experience.

    I don’t walk around with a chip on my shoulder at all. I think you get my meaning having studied Wing Chun. It’s not about chips on shoulders.

    But yeah, avoid fighting if possible. people’s heads are very hard and your hands will be swollen the next day. : )

    I grew up in the inner city before guns became the go to method of fighting. It’s interesting how mean and vicious some people can be. I understand that not everyone had that experience, so they don’t react to threats in the same manner. I do try to always temper any response, and more often than not, it works.

    But when it doesn’t….

  77. @kfg

    “When I walk into a room full of under age girls I don’t know only some of them throw themselves at me, or any other man.”

    that doesn’t mean they don’t want to be fucked by you in a certain way at a certain time — the same way as the girls who throw themselves at you do, even.

    “Win the chess world championship, then play the exact same game every time subsequently, and you will never win another game. Because that’s the way shit works.”

    if chess were solved, if you played that exact game you’d win every game.

    your mindset is fucking you over, mang.

  78. @kfg
    “This. Which doesn’t change the game, but it does change the tactics.”

    The tactics don’t change. The tactics that the old man is executing are the tactics that the young guy is SUPPOSED to be executing. The old man isn’t running DIFFERENT game, he’s running PROPER game. The young guys are running the same game but missing bits and pieces of it, but the old man isn’t learning some different style of game. It’s all the same shit, he just gets less leeway with being sloppy running the same game that everyone SHOULD be running.

  79. … Just for the record Ya, I LIVE in Blood, Crip and Latin King territory, with a little MS13 thrown in for good measure.

    Lol at the ” I don’t know what it’s like ” meme man.

  80. @Blaximus
    “so they won’t be around to arrest me if I put somebody to sleep.”

    I don’t know what the bar scene was like in your day but these days the Gang Suppression unit walks through the crowd to remind everyone they’re around and there are multiple cop cars parked outside clubs/bars the second half of the night, espeically at last call when most fights go down as people pile outside and release their frustrations on that guy who was a dick to them earlier etc.

    “I grew up in the inner city before guns became the go to method of fighting.”

    So you grew up in a safer time, but your advice is “go punch a guy out and get involved in an altercation you could have avoided” now that things are SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous and that guy you’re punching out probably has a gun and buddies with guns and that’s the “go to method of fighting”.

    Does that not seem like bad advice to you?

    We want guys to stay alive out there, and to do that they shouldn’t be getting into any kind of fight they can avoid, ESPECIALLY as newbies who haven’t fully learned the social calibration to de-escalate a seriously dangerous situation. Just walk away, you’re there to talk to pretty girls, not to end up in the hospital or jail.

  81. @Blaximus
    “I’m talking about a guy that’s made up his mind to take things to blows.”

    Did that guy just materialize out of thin air angry? Just a fucking magician poofing in front of the guy pissed off and ready to punch him?

    No. You’re skipping over the ENTIRE BUILD-UP to that situation that could have been diffused or avoided a dozen different ways. But usually isn’t because guys listen to man-up advice that gets them into that situation where the other guy has made up his mind to take things to blows.

  82. ” I don’t know what the bar scene was like in your day but these days the Gang Suppression unit walks through the crowd to remind everyone they’re around and there are multiple cop cars parked outside clubs/bars the second half of the night, espeically at last call when most fights go down as people pile outside and release their frustrations on that guy who was a dick to them earlier etc.”

    Lol. Gang Suppression unit???

    Like I said….

    My day is 1/27/2016. I ain’t under any rock.

  83. oh lawd
    well i assume you figured out you aren’t blade or bulletproof too, so it’s your muthafucken set and your philosophy.

  84. “o. You’re skipping over the ENTIRE BUILD-UP to that situation that could have been diffused or avoided a dozen different ways. But usually isn’t because guys listen to man-up advice that gets them into that situation where the other guy has made up his mind to take things to blows.”

    And VIOLA!!! there’s the disconnect. Believe it or nah, there are guys who will just walk up and smash you, if they feel like it. No buildup. No real conversation.

    Different experiences in life. Angry guys are out there man..lol. they don’t just appear out of thin air. Stay close to your Gang Suppression Units.

    : )

  85. And VIOLA!!! there’s the disconnect. Believe it or nah, there are guys who will just walk up and smash you, if they feel like it. No buildup. No real conversation.

    Viola is an instrument. Voila is the exclamation you’re looking for. And for the record that wasn’t the kind of situation that came up. Yollo specifically asked about dealing with dudes that get pissed and make it clear they’re itching to fight. Dudes that just walk up and clobber you are another matter altogether, and in all honesty you don’t really get a chance to defuse OR fight those guys.

    I know. I was clocked by a couple in my younger years.

    The question was asked about situations where there is a build up, answers were given to that.

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