Selective Breeding

Why is it okay to kick a Beta male in the balls on TV or in the movies?

The cocky Beta who gets his comeuppance with a swift kick to the nuts from a Strong Independent Woman® archetype has been standard fare for comic relief in action-adventure movies for some time now. Why is this socially acceptable? In the most recent Avengers movie Starlord (Chriss Pratt) gets kneed in the groin when he – the lovable, humorous Beta male archetype – tries to reconnect with his ‘true love’ interest Gamora after she’d been killed in the prior movie. This is just one example, but so long as the character is definably a Beta (in comparison to definably Alpha male archetypes in the story) permission is granted to ridicule him by exploiting his greatest weakness; a kick in the nuts.

We see the attacking of men’s genitals as humorous because it conveys and confirms sexual selection cues. Only Beta men deserve to have their balls kicked as a confirmation of their sexual selection status. Attacking a woman sexually is tantamount to rape, so flipping the gender script in this instance is a non-starter with comparisons in the movies. In fact, men even speaking critically of women’s bodies is regularly used as an illustration of misogyny or presented as the typical abuse women must endure from body-shaming chauvinist men.

 If we look at the popular fiction of this era – the Avengers or Star Wars franchises for example – we can see the death of conventional masculinity played out in the erasure of Alpha male characters. Tony Stark (Iron Man), Steve Rodgers (Captain America), Han Solo, etc. are systematically removed from popular consciousness. Even Thor is a has-been alcoholic who’ll now be replaced by his female incarnation in the next “Thor” movie. And this is the model of masculinity that’s left for us. Laughable Beta males and Strong Independent Woman® who step up to fill the vacuum of powerful male characters that’s been written for them to fill.

Manspreading

Earlier this year I read a story about a staged protest by a Russian feminist girl who poured what we were told was a mixture of bleach and water onto the crotches of men who were manspreading on a subway train. With a critical eye you can sort of tell this was staged. Guys were sitting by themselves with no one else in an adjoining seat and she’d go up to them and pour a water bottle on their crotches. I’ve see similar protests before, and if you look at the linked video here today you can see how this ‘man spreading revenge’ fantasy plays out, even in commercials. 

Recently there was another woman who’s won some sort of design award for a chair she designed to discourage men from naturally spreading their legs when they sit. And, of course, she designed a companion chair that encourages women to spread their own legs. The male chair forces men to sit like a “proper lady” should. While some men try to defend this posture as the natural way guys just sit, I read a lot of commentary about how men’s sitting posture is an arrogant display of toxic masculinity because men were somehow taught to, or feel they must, take up more space when seated. Women’s frustration is ostensibly about the space men take up with their posture, and the more militant women presume it’s a behavior grounded in some unconscious sexism. “I’m more important as a man so I need to take up space.”

But manspreading isn’t about space. It’s about a display of genitals. Men with legs spread is a natural, often subconscious, Alpha posture. It’s a hindbrain signaling of confidence in men. Now, before you write me off here, think about this; if women’s primary concern was about men taking up space, then why attack a man’s genitals to force him to close it up? Why not simply ask him to close up a bit? Why is pouring water (bleach) on his crotch an acceptable punishment? Why is a hit to the balls a reflexive retaliation?

Women’s existential fear is having their Hypergamous filters bypassed by a clever Beta male impersonating an Alpha, breeding with him, and thereby saddled for a lifetime of support with the child of his inferior seed. Women’s evolved sensitivity to this filter extends to subconscious cues men display in their posture. Ergo, a man ‘spreading’ is perceived by a woman’s hindbrain as a false signal of Alpha by a Beta male. This triggers the existential fear response, thus attacking his manhood is doing all of womankind a favor by humiliating him for his attempt to deceive women’s filters.

I’m sure there’ll be some women (and their ‘allies’) who’ll think this is a stretch, but then, why is it acceptable to kick a man in the nuts when he’s spreading? Why is it that Starlord gets kicked in the balls and we laugh? Because a Beta male tried to pass himself off as an Alpha and retaliation was due. If a guy like Jason Mamoa was sitting spread-legged on a bus it would serve as an arousal cue for most women. Alpha status recognition is an automatic subconscious subroutine, fine tuned over millennia of evolution, in women. Women’s subconscious awareness instinctively reads SMV status and prompts behavior accordingly.

She Doesn’t Want Your Shitty Last Name

Or your shitty genetics for that matter. Patrilinear surnames are a symbolic stamp of ownership for men. They give a name to his genetics – a surname is associated with a specific genetic line. A man’s legacy is his genes and those genes need an identifier. One of the more controversial topics I debate online is the refusal of men’s surname by their wives. Women keeping their last names or hyphenating them in marriage is now a common sign of their independent spirit. Marriage is only acceptable to the Strong Independent Woman® when it looks more like an egalitarian business arrangement rather than a complementary pairing of a man and a woman who understand (and accept) the nature of their own gender. Traditional marriage looks too much like “ownership” for feminist wives and nümale husbands.

Blue Pill conditioned men are far more likely to be okay with their wives’ decision to keep her name, hyphenate it, or even take her name. After all, it’s the progressive thing to do and most believe on some level of consciousness that his accepting her independence in this way will make him more appreciated by her. The truth is this: his acquiescing to her in this way only reinforces what her hindbrain has already confirmed – she’s paired with a Beta male who wouldn’t give an afterthought to insisting his genetics bear his name. He confirms the low quality of his genetics to her hindbrain.

There are a lot of convenient social conventions that come along with a woman’s insistence on keeping her surname. Just like the excuse of men “taking up space” warrants terms like “manspreading”, women and nümales will appeal to pragmatism:

“She’s a doctor, lawyer, soon-to-be-famous-person and she need to maintain her identity for public relations reasons. Otherwise she’d totally take my last name dude.”

“I don’t want her to have a crummy last name like ‘Butts’ or something.”

“Taking a man’s last name is an antiquated symbol of patriarchal ownership of women. Haven’t we evolved past this yet? Are you so insecure in your masculinity that you’ll insist on her taking your name?”

These are a few of the cover stories, but the latent purpose is the same; women’s hindbrains must hedge their Hypergamous bets with men they know are Beta before pretending to commit to a lifetime of breeding and parental investment with them. For a woman marrying a man whom her subconscious acknowledges as Alpha, not assuming his name isn’t an afterthought to her. Women paired with a man who is a confirmed Alpha will often say “I didn’t want children, but I wanted to have his babies.”

The Alpha man inspires her to breed for his benefit.

We’re getting into sexy sons theory here, but the idea is that a significantly high SMV male can inspire women to become submissive/supportive wives and mothers. See my essay on Alpha Widows for more about this.

A woman in a good Hypergamous pairing accepts – desires – his authority, but also his genes. She doesn’t just want children, she wants his children. This then is signified (codified?) in his name passing on to her and their children. Even in ostensibly egalitarian marriages the kids generally retain the name of the male who fathered them (unless single-mom throws useful step-dad a bone and the kids change their name to his). Human beings are innately tribalistic (sorry Jordan). This tribalism is expressed in Selective Breeding practices extending from the personal to the social.

In 2019, and in the reproductive aftermath of the Sexual Revolution, these tribal distinctions are now left to women to determine in a confusing global sexual marketplace. Men’s innate drive for paternal certainty falls away in this environment. The existential fear and frustration that manifests from that drive still persists in men, but the practice of it gives way to women being the primary influencers in selective breeding – and how it will or won’t be expressed. It’s now a common practice for a woman to change the surname of children of a genetic ‘asshole’ father to that of the adoptive step-dad-who-stepped-up. Or the noble Promise Keeper son and holy protector of his single mom (and by extension all of womankind) who changes his last name to something else. 

But why? Why bother to go to that trouble if names are unimportant? If paternity doesn’t matter anyway, why go to the trouble of changing a name?

What Happens When She’s the One Who’s Out of Options?

As I mentioned, women’s existential fear is pairing herself with a Beta male who, through guile and deceptions, convinced her he’s an Alpha. But what happens when that woman runs out of options in her  Epiphany Phase? What happens when she’s forced to settle on the good-enough Beta (the guy Sheryl Sandberg assured women “nothing’s sexier”) because she can’t lock down the Alpha whose babies she wants to have?

She can continue searching indefinitely. The social conventions established by the Feminine Imperative convinces women that their sexual market value (SMV) is unending and imperishable. Those conventions also combine with others that shame men for being so infantile in preferring women who are ‘younger, hotter, tighter’. This shaming gets extended to convincing Beta men they should “align their dating strategies” to prefer mature women who “now have their heads on straight”. The idea that an older woman is more mature and therefore ought to be considered more desirable by men is conveniently positioned in women’s Epiphany Phase – so is the Myth of the Biological Clock.

Or she can settle for the less-than-ideal Beta male she’d never have opted for in her Party Years. Women have various psychological and sociological mechanisms in place to help them rationalize this settling on a Beta in Waiting.

  • Plan B: There’s always a fallback guy. Generally this is one Beta for another, better positioned Beta though. If one were “alpha” he’d already be the Plan A. (Be the A Guy). It’s important to note that if the Plan B Beta eventually ‘alphas up’ in some perceivable way, this generally throws a woman into a psychological conflict.
  • She convinces herself that ‘settling’ is really who she is in that moment. Most women genuinely believe in their Epiphany Phase rationales. Most would probably pass a polygraph test if you asked them if they genuinely felt the way they do about their decisions during this time of their lives. However, Hypergamy and its fundamental rules don’t change for women even when they believe something new about themselves. And often enough that ‘genuine’ belief is motivated by their subconscious understanding about their state n life as a result of their mating strategy.

Make Rules for Betas – Break Rules for Alphas

This is a fundamental understanding for Red Pill awareness. It’s one of the easiest indicators men can use to determine a woman’s interest in them, or her subconscious understanding of your status as a man. Is she making more rules for you to obey, more hoops for you to jump through in order to qualify for her ‘love’ (i.e. sexual access)?  She probably sees you as a Beta. Is she breaking her rules, the rules she believes she needs to follow in her new (Epiphany) phase of life, in order to get into situations where she can facilitate sex with you? Is she putting off responsibilities in order to enjoy herself with you? She probably sees you as Alpha.

This rule-setting or breaking is a basic litmus test for genuine desire. Women’s hindbrains grasp this  too. If a woman is setting rules for a man, her subconscious understands that he’s predominantly Beta. Because she needs to set rules, because it seems like logic to refuse his surname (another rule) and because he accepts these rules – even encourages them in himself and other men – his status is confirmed as a Beta. Only a Beta would need rules. Only a Beta would comply with those rules.

I should add that this is the basis of all transactional relationships. Jump through hoop (obey rule), get sex. An Alpha, by nature, would have options to replace a woman who made rules for him. Furthermore, it wouldn’t occur to a woman to issue rules with an Alpha man whose babies she wants to have. Hypergamy can’t afford to issue rules to Alpha men.

The Inner War

If women’s existential fear is being tricked into reproducing with a Beta male, then forcing herself to settle on a suboptimal man must inspire an inner conflict in her. There are lots of controversial self-help books published by women on both sides of this conflict. Some argue for women to accept a Beta guy and just make the best of it, others (especially religious books) argue that a woman should never compromise herself and wait for the best man (the ‘soulmate’ husband God has preordained for her) to present himself to her. There are more than a few Purple Pill “relationship experts” who cater to this demographic of women, and they do very well marketing new age magic and cutesy aphorisms to resolve this inner war.

I characterize this war as a conversation between a woman’s Id and her Ego. 

The Epiphany Phase forces her sensualism-seeking, ‘hawt’, short-term sexual (breeding) opportunism to come to terms with the necessity of her long-term security needs. Alpha Fucks (her Id) wars with Beta Bucks (her Ego) in her head – and all with the urgency of knowing that her SMV is decaying to the point where she must either take action or convincingly rationalize why she doesn’t need to take action. Her Ego knows her SMV is in decline and long-term security / parenting / family is becoming less and less available to her. But her Id still wants what it wants; ‘hawt’ sex with ‘hawt’ guys. And she’s still ‘hawt’ too – the feminine-primary world says it all the time “Never Settle Gurl!” – she ‘deserves’ only the best.

Thus, the conversation leads to varying degrees of compromise to outright self-delusions prompted by outside influences (i.e. social media). Plan B is a compromise. Refusing his last name is a compromise (or hedging of her Hypergamous bets). Making rules for, and endlessly testing, a Beta to assuage the Hypergamous doubt (“is he the best I can do?”) is a compromise.

And Choreplay, that’s just sexual filibustering.

Today, the new fascination with ‘Poly’ or ‘open relationships’ is also one more methodology women are using to make a compromise between the Alpha Fucks her Id needs and the Beta Bucks her Ego knows is necessary for her future security and happiness. “Alternative relationship strategy” is the latest euphemism for Poly, but it really distills down to a means for women to find a way to balance the Hypergamous equation. She’ll marry the Beta, but it should necessarily mean she has to have sex with him. Poly relationships are a compromise.

Ideally women would love to give themselves to a worthy man. To follow his plan for their lives,…and she’d like to feel the kind of attraction to him that would inspire the trust that he would do so for her and her children’s benefit. 

“I wanted to have his babies.” — this is Hypergamy balancing Alpha Seed with Beta Need perfectly.

Today though, women wait too long. They believe the lies of their own Blue Pill, that their SMV is never depleted. They don’t look for this balance anymore. They don’t even expect to find it; one man is for a same night lay, the other is boyfriend material

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

381 comments on “Selective Breeding

  1. RedPillNewb

    @SJF

    Bro. I’ve read nearly every post here and bought all 3 of Rollo’s books. I’m not trolling. I am newly addicted to RP and learning. I am personally having the “crises” I referred to and seeking answers. I feel guilty and would like to resolve these internal issues.

    Well, you don’t have to be so obtuse and ask a general question, when you have a specific issue.

    Wtf are you getting at? Guilty about what?

    Are you spinning your mind thoughts? Not aligning what you want with what you are doing?

    Stop wasting time. What’s the problem?

    And “addicted to red pill” is not a thing. Bad recurring habits you can’t resolve are.

  2. @scribblerg

    Dont agree word for word, but I can agree with the sentiment.

    When married men use try to use their kids to define themselves as alpha, that’s textbook blue pill. But everbody has their role to play in society, and civilization depends on those types to keep the lights on.

  3. sorry bro your hamsters running harder as you get older. I used to read your shit a lot but now it just comes across as a guy with nothing better to do with his time than theory craft conspiracies. Maybe there’s a minority of women who behave this way fine, but it’s nothing to do with alpha or beta males, they’re sick people who’ve been brainwashed with hate. it’s not about genetic fitness and frankly if anything, they know on some level they aren’t genetically fit themselves, so their direct their self loathing outward on other people. psych 101

  4. @ anonymous reader

    I knew someone would be along to over intellectualise the shit out of my comment before too long thanks man.

    I didn’t actually think if put through that ordeal the GF would actually prefer to Die in reality but I took the RP take on it that she’s really saying that taking away a woman’s ability/choice to mate optimise is the almost the worst thing you can do to her!

    She FEELS that she would rather be dead and that’s what Betas are dealing with a level of revulsion that they cannot comprehend because “hey I’m a nice guy etc”.

    Women hate Betas and if they feel like they had to settle for one they will make his life Hell , because secretly they subconsciously hate themselves for not being able to secure the alpha they felt they deserved but their egos will protect them from this by punishing the beta instead.

    Most men have no idea how unlovable they are to most women , they are in-fact at best invisible and at worst outright repulsive to the majority of women, but they never see it.

  5. Came across this 2016 article and I think it captures the ability of the hamster to engage in two conflicting realities without being bothered by it. https://www.redbookmag.com/love-sex/sex/a47424/why-women-like-rough-sex/

    Her explanations are absurd. Submission isn’t a form of control of the sexual experience – doms like me know the difference. Women who approach submission like that are “domming from the bottom” and such girls get bounced by me before I even meet them now. Some girls think it’s cool to say “yeah, i’m submissive” thinking it’s a role they can play.

    No. What women like about submission is not being in control, it’s axiomatic. They cede control to someone very specific though, a high value man. In fact, the act is reinforcing of my high value as why would she want to submit to me if I wasn’t worth it? In fact, what girls find hottest is going beyond their limits, not defining them. “For some reason, you can just do whatever you want to me and I love it. I’ve never been this way before.” Heard is many times…

    This is called “consensual nonconsent” and it’s a fine line to walk, but I do so. The author tries to make the point that it’s powerful women who want to submit, lol – not my experience. They are the ones who can’t let go, and aren’t worth the trouble. They dom from the bottom and are way to up in their feminist heads. It’s the fun, sweet, uncomplicated girls who are bit of the wildchild in spirit who are the most amazing subs. They “just get it”. Not so for some 36yo, post waller who’s evaluating every man for provision, angry at herself and high value men for how she let them use her, lol. My former HB9 who had a baby with another guy is like this. She’s considering joining a church to find a beta boy who will white knight her and marry her up and play daddy to another man’s baby. I cannot conceive of doing such a thing, but hey, the world needs compliant men to play ball for this whole system to work, so please, have the fuck at it. She also shames her sexually active past now, lol She’s doing the whole “born again virgin” thing.

    The article also provides a sense of how women force their feminist values upon themselves, and in the process deny their own nature. This is a crack in the system that can be hacked, btw.

    There is another problem in the way it’s discussed. You’d get the impression that there are some women who like to have submissive sex as a style of sex, but in fact, women do not submit to every man they have sex with at all. I had a discussion about this with the 20yo HB8 from a few weeks back (crashed and burned her, oops – juggling the young nympho hotties is a volatile, high failure rate venture, but the few who opt in, omg, and she and i had a couple of really, really insanely hot times, so).

    She explained. “I’ve never been with a guy older than 21yo. And I kind of thought I was supposed to take charge, that women are supposed to be powerful and in control. But then you took me in a way no man ever has, and it was by far the most amazing sex. And to be honest I always felt being in control was not quite right, and now that I have this to compare it to it looks so silly.” What did she learn that day, boys? Women don’t want to fuck, they want to be fucked.

    Every woman wants to be fucked. Every woman will submit to some man – even if only her 30yo fantasy memory of the alpha who took her hard. Fyi, I think I alpha widowed the HB8. But my point here is that we are creating a “false consciousness” for women, and men as many men seem to buy into it.

    The author gives away the game in her last comments. Talks about “being like a boss” – no honey, don’t be “like a boss”, rather just be a boss. This is a problem I see with many women actual leadership roles. They try to behave “like” a boss, not as a boss. The very act of having to adopt some pose when you are a leader undermines your leadership. For women, much of this is a pose. And they grow weary of it.

    Related data supports this. We of course don’t hear the stats about all of the women who drop out of the legal and medical fields by the time they are 40 or so. Turns out many of them cannot stand the grind. But in fact, what they’ve done is miscast themselves from the start. I feel sad for such women. They certainly deserve a righteous fucking at least, right?

    My MD in NYC back 10+ years ago was just such a woman. Beautiful, smart, was a partner in small practice, late 30s. Just quit and shut her practice down. Couldn’t take the hours and grind of it all. And who can blame her? Successful MDs are fucking grinders, as SJF can confirm. the big earners are very busy and work a lot. Same thing for partners at a law firm.

    How sad that the fems and the Left in general lied to such women. Why weren’t they told, at 18, “You are young and fertile, it’s time to reproduce. Find a man who you are crazy about and who can and will take care of you and have a family.” Such men won’t be 21 for the most part. “Then, when the kids are in school and on their way, you can start a career around 30.” Imagine how much happier so many of these women would be? Men could also enjoy being single longer and taking their time growing up a bit in their 20s. I was married at 24 and if I have any marriage advice for a man, it’s to not get married before you are 30. Men are still maturing and developing significantly in their 20s. Your life plan at 20 will unlikely be the lifeplan you’ll have at 30 if you are free to evolve and choose, not locked into a mortgage and family etc.

    To sum it up, women’s very identity has been subverted by radfems and the left. The other thing to keep in mind that it’s only say 20% or so of women who are sexually active and adventurous. The data shows this over and over. What we never see is the correlation in this data to the level of attractiveness of the individuals involved. What I bet we’d see is that the very sexually active men and women are also high SMV. Not all attractive people avail themselves of the opportunities that present themselves but I’m pretty sure they make up a disproportional amount of the people having a lot of sex.

    So, go find the young, nympho, submissive hotties and try it out guys. You’ll be shocked at how many won’t reject or shame you if you aren’t spraying your pants and being a douche. They just want to have fun. As for the old hags who wrote this article? It’s much easier to laugh at them knowing i’m having “SexFest” tomorrow with my 19yo hb9.5. Literally locking ourselves away for the afternoon and evening at a hotel. Fyi, i’m her secret. Nobody knows we do this. Hehe. She can’t wait. She’s sending me gorgeous pics, she’s dabbling as an instamodel, lol. Thousands of followers apparently – I don’t even know the name of her account. The very act of me following her there would be inconsistent with our relationship. I’m in charge not her and she fucking loves it. In fact, she’s shocked by how much she loves pleasing me. “I’ve never been taken like that by a man before” were her exact words.

    Go forth and do the same gentleman. Or you could instead make another blog comment or watch another Youtube video or self-flagellate on Twitter. Your choice. Exploit the system, don’t whine about it. Win the game, don’t sit in the stands and handicap it and philosophize about it.

    Just sayin’…

  6. Most men have no idea how unlovable they are to most women , they are in-fact at best invisible and at worst outright repulsive to the majority of women, but they never see it.

    Playdontpay —

    Yep.

    Basically women divide men into two main groups: (1) sexy/want-to-be-fucked-by/alpha and (2) other. They all do this, and they all know they do it.

    Category (1) is referred to as “real men” by women, and these are the men women will chase and qualify themselves to for sex, break “rules” for, etc. Category (2) is further subdivided into useful and useless — that is, between men who are in some way useful personally one-on-one to a woman (and not in a generic, “they run the power grid” way … that doesn’t count a lick fellas, lol), and men who serve no such personal use.

    “Useful” category 2 guys can be doled out sex in an exchange that is viewed by the women as beneficial — again, because the man is useful to her, even though he isn’t in himself sexually interesting apart from the usefulness exchange. This is where guys get it wrong that “betas don’t get laid”. Betas do get laid. But they don’t get desire sex from attractive women — they get exchange sex by being able to offer something useful to a woman in exchange for sexual access, which is always limited and on her terms as a part of the exchange.

    The key thing to remember, though, is that women hold all category (2) men in contempt, basically. Women find category (2) men, even the “useful” ones, to be pathetic, precisely because women know that these men need to bargain to get sex, while the woman herself does not need to do any such thing. Because of that, these men are “below” her in her own view of the pecking order — they are pathetic in her eyes, as compared with “real men”, who don’t need to bargain to get sex. Women realize that their beta husbands couldn’t get sex to save their lives without paying for it if she wasn’t doling out pity sex every now and then, and they find this pathetic, especially since, if she is maintaining her appearance and fitness level well, men at work are hitting on her all the time, and more attractive ones than her husband as well.

    The only men who are truly “loved” by women are category (1) men. Category (2) men will be married and will get bargained/exchange sex in that context, and will also get some warm feelings around co-parenting from time to time, but are never loved the way women can love a category (1) man, because category (2) men are seen as pathetic and “beneath” even average women in their own minds.

    And of course the final category of useless category (2) men … well they’re just a waste of space. Pretty much totally invisible to women unless they are actively doing something that annoys them, in which case they are treated with relentless viciousness.

    So, yes, most men are not loved, or even lovable, by women. So …. don’t be like most men. As always, problem solved ….

  7. @scribb

    “Sigh, I don’t want to reproduce – I just want to cum inside them.”

    Do you love your grandchildren? God forbid, how would you feel if they all passed away? How would you feel if your line ended with you?

    “only god knows how many kids i have. women don’t chase me down for paternity or child support, they have you fucking pussies to take care of all that, hehe. they just want me to fuck them.”

    lol How much do you pay to the Great Alpha in Washington?

    “i don’t want another family that some woman can just snatch from me”

    If you’re an awesome alpha with solid relationship skills who has trained a woman, how could this ever happen? I refer you to Kate’s speech upbraiding disobedient women in “The Taming of the Shrew”. At that point, Kate is completely devoted to her husband due to his training of her. Or was William Shakespeare blue pill?

    I get it that your ex-wife ripped your heart out by taking your kids away. Of course you’re going to be shy about putting yourself at risk again. But you will always have that nagging question: Could I have made it work? (No reason you can’t continue to get young pussy on the side when you’re married.)

    @Fact

    “When married men use try to use their kids to define themselves as alpha,”

    And this is being done by…nobody. Betas reproduce, too. But @Rollo has talked about how most genes can be traced to 18% of male ancestors. He calls them “alphas.” Rollo implies that alphas generally reproduce, unless I read him wrong. At the very least, if you don’t reproduce, you are irrelevant to the human gene pool–irrelevant as far as biology is concerned.

    Like @kfg says, it’s about babies all the way down.

  8. “it’s about babies all the way down.”

    Which some men deny, but others obsess over.

    Then there are men who get on with their lives during the course of which babies naturally happen.

  9. “Sounds like something a woman would say.”

    No, it’s something a biologist would say. Women respond by saying that they have “intrinsic” value and aren’t “baby makers.” Sometimes they say it while on the way to an abortion clinic. Women hate biology. It’s “oppressive.”

    Life is defined by reproduction. No reproduction, no life. And that’s the jack, Fact. Note that there is no moral judgement attached.

  10. Note that under social conditions that existed within my living memory women would kill themselves in order to abort an unwanted child.

  11. Note also that under those conditions it was men who wanted as many babies as they could manage to sire. Women are hypergamous, men are promiscuous. Women nurture an egg. Men spread seed.

  12. Playdontpay

    I didn’t actually think if put through that ordeal the GF would actually prefer to Die in reality but I took the RP take on it that she’s really saying that taking away a woman’s ability/choice to mate optimise is the almost the worst thing you can do to her!

    On topic comment.

    She FEELS that she would rather be dead and that’s what Betas are dealing with a level of revulsion that they cannot comprehend because “hey I’m a nice guy etc”.

    Sure, her feelz are her realze. But it’s just the feelze of the moment. Because women do not really understand cause and effect. Nor do they understand their own inner nature.

    Most men have no idea how unlovable they are to most women , they are in-fact at best invisible and at worst outright repulsive to the majority of women, but they never see it.

    Yes. They don’t have The Glasses and cannot see clearly.

    Don’t diss the truths of evo-psych. That stuff is testable and repeatable.

  13. @ kfg

    Nobody is challenging anybody’s religious beliefs. If you want to try to reframe alpha male identity by the number of times you didn’t use birth control, you’re free to make that personal decision. Every little sperm is sacred. Whoever dies with the most kids wins.

  14. @Scribb

    Good to hear from you again. I always look forward to your posts. Glad to see you’re out there tearing it up.

    Especially important recap of your past Blue Pill self. I like that you can admit that you were fully immersed in the Blue Pill and wanted the fantasy, but don’t dwell on it. It was there, and now it’s dead. That’s that. But it is important to know that you went through that trial by fire for guys who are still in the process of burning the Beta alive. It’s a slow burn.

    Unless a guy was Red Pill from a very early age and never had any Beta tendencies ever, there’s gonna be some Jekyll and Hyde for a while. The remnants of craving for a Blue Pill relationship. The loneliness, neediness, frustration. And above all: the idealization. Burn it all to the ground. Like I said. It’s a slow burn.

    Better to bleach out the stains and commit to forgetting it. Better off empty and blank than left with a single pathetic trace of this. Smother another failure and lay it to rest.

    You’re right that life is a competition. It’s good to be tough on yourself when you’re at your worst for that reason. This kind of self talk is the only thing pushing me forward: “You can’t deal with reality is and want to kill yourself? Go ahead and do it, you fucking coward. Destroy yourself. See who gives a fuck. Pull the trigger, bitch.”

    Obviously, I haven’t. This self-yelling has the opposite effect. I think of it as yelling at this inner weakness, goading it to toughen the fuck up. The weak part whose world is shattered upon realizing Red Pill truth the hard way: ONE-itis idealized relationships ending in betrayal/disaster over and over again. Having the idealization of love stripped of its deceptive veil to show its true face over and over again. The woman you thought loved you and you had something “special” with will get wet for the next guy that comes along who is better than you and get his dick as deep inside her as possible at the nearest opportunity, given the chance. What you think is “love” can be narrowed down to women vying for provisioning or good baby genes. What you think is “special” is conditional, and based on women’s opportunism.

    Realizing that is like being crucified, for a Blue Pill mind. For a Red Pill mind, it’s just an accepted, objective fact. No more, no less, no reason to get emotional about it, or judgmental of women about it.

    “Nobody gives a fuck. If you want to take your own life, or even worse, sit on the sidelines and live the life of a walking corpse, an empty, unfulfilled shell, go right the fuck ahead. You fucking coward.” That’s how I talk to myself these days. It’s been very motivating. I feel pumped up afterwards, not torn down.

    Feelings of loneliness and desperation will sprout like weeds. They need to be uprooted, burned, whatever you can do to get rid of them, at the nearest opportunity. They’re neural pathways sprouting up trying to hook you back into Blue Pill thinking: idealizing women, trusting women, basing your emotional well-being and mental point of origin on women. THAT is what’s toxic. THAT is a major mental scaffolding that drives men to suicide. THAT is what keeps men depressed, withdrawn, filled with rage to the point of boiling over.

    Being able to enjoy girls as Scribb has been requires a truly Red Pill mindset. I would wager most guys would not WANT to do what Scribb is doing. They might SAY they want it, but if presented with the opportunity, they would crumble, and want the first hottie to come their way to be in love with them, be their girlfriend, unconditionally “love and support” them, etc.

    They don’t want to just go out and enjoy what girls have to offer. They want the Disney fantasy, and that Blue Pill desire is what ends up betraying them and driving them to do crazy shit, or simply destroy themselves, when the light shines on the truth and they find out it was a lie the whole time.

    Mindset is everything. Absolutely everything. I feel I’ve been struggling as much as I ever have, mentally, but I am not turning to substances or self-destructive behavior to soothe myself, which is new. I am improving myself on a daily basis and if I am really paralyzed by some emotion or thought I will just sit and soberly wait it out. Many times lately I’ll take a tiny sip, like 1/10th of a shot of liquor, and just think, “I do not want to do this to myself.” I’m honoring my body and doing my best to take care of it now. First time in my life I’ve had such intense dysphoria, without any actual suicidal thoughts. I now like myself and my body far too much to ever consider following through with anything even remotely close to that. As a matter of fact I don’t want to do anything that’s harmful to my body at all, even a little bit.

    And so this practice of sitting sober and isolated through the worst of it also builds resilience in the mind and teaches you that you can handle extremely intense dysphoria and cognitive dissonance without using anything to numb or distract the pain. It’s just like building a muscle: if you’re training right (i.e. to promote an adaptive response), it is going to feel really fucking uncomfortable. So it is with the mind.

    Men’s life is a life of building. And it starts with building our minds. Throwing away the Blue Pill factory presets and realizing you can hand-craft your own mind into whatever you want is where the real fun starts.

  15. @Fact:

    “Nobody is challenging anybody’s religious beliefs.”

    ASD may beg to differ, but that’s up to him.

    “If you want to try to reframe alpha male . . .”

    And I said nothing about alpha male identity.

  16. Sometimes I can’t tell if people try to be purposefully dense as fuck, or if it’s totally by accident.

    If there were only 50 million people left on earth, and they never reproduced, human life as we know it would cease in one century.

    Babies all the way down. Biology.

    If a billion men decided to not reproduce, the remaining men had better eat their wheaties because the demand Will be high.

  17. “If a billion men decided to not reproduce, the remaining men had better eat their wheaties because the demand Will be high”

    Fact: “everbody has their role to play in society, and civilization depends on those types to keep the lights on”

    Now get back to work!!! 😛

  18. Civilization depends on more than sex. Slackers die and more are produced by accident and feminism.😂

    As long as the drag isn’t too great, slackers eat. But when the drag becomes too much……guess what happens historically?

  19. “Then there are men who get on with their lives during the course of which babies naturally happen.”

    This ranks right up there with the advice to just be yourself. With women putting a high priority on higher ed and career, babies aren’t happening.

    “ASD may beg to differ, but that’s up to him.”

    Lol, where the fuck did this come from?

  20. Education and career aren’t the main drivers as to why women aren’t having kids ( the way they used to ). Lol, most women aren’t in college or in demanding,high paying jobs.

    You do go outside and walk around sometimes, right?

    Let’s agree to not make any more broad and sweeping excuses that don’t cover the ” majority “.

    The majority of young men and women aren’t college educated and earn pretty much shit. Most 20+ year old girls carry more.debt than I do.

    Popular culture and habits drive young folks apart, stunt the maturation process, and create socially awkward humans. That’s a bigger problem than wimminz working and learning too much to get pregnant.

  21. If its about the babies, that makes Jim Bob the dominant alpha of the married red pill corner of the manosphere.

    lulz

  22. Fact

    Yeah lulz.

    You’re being willfully ignorant.

    Nobody , and I mean nobody ( but you ) is conflating ” alpha ” with having kids.

    But maybe you can find another picture and stay on your message.

    Have at it hoss.

  23. “If its about the babies, that makes Jim Bob the dominant alpha . . .”

    You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that the “it” in “it’s babies all the way down” is alpha. It isn’t. The “it” is life.

  24. “Let’s agree to not make any more broad and sweeping excuses that don’t cover the ” majority “.

    but:

    “The majority of young men and women aren’t college educated and earn pretty much shit. Most 20+ year old girls carry more.debt than I do.

    Popular culture and habits drive young folks apart, stunt the maturation process, and create socially awkward humans. That’s a bigger problem than wimminz working and learning too much to get pregnant.”

    One of these statements is discordant with the other.

    One gets pulled into the top down how things are these days.

    It doesn’t matter how fucked up society is. You and your family is your own history.

    I husband my wife and family and have around me a Goldilocks culture. And will continue to do so. I rarely see socially awkward humans.

    Partly engineered by me, partly engineered by good others. Which I select to associate with.

    It’s a parity (congruent and unity). And it’s beautiful nature. Mother nature can be a mean bitch, or bountiful. Always true to nature.

    …Help, I’m steppin’ into the twilight zone
    Place is a madhouse, feels like being cold
    My beacon’s been moved under moon and star
    Where am I to go now that I’ve gone too far? (Oh oh oh)

    Help, I’m steppin’ into the twilight zone
    Place is a madhouse, feels like being alone
    My beacon’s been moved under moon and star
    Where am I to go now that I’ve gone too far?

    So you will come to know
    When the bullet hits the bone…

    You can always do better. So can your friends, family and mentors.

  25. Palma

    I lurv sjf, but sometimes he suffers from umc/silver spoon blindspots. Family ski trips and all that.

    I.wasn’t referring to the ” shit ” people though.. Just average American youth out of 300+ million people.

    Being optimistic and all is one strategy that’s useful until it makes you oblivious.

    I grew up around working class folks that bought homes and put there kids through college when they could. Most of those kids didn’t aquire crushing debt. Used to be you could work in a factory and make a life and raise a family I’d you chose to do so. Everybody won’t work in stem or wall street or become doctors and lawyers.

  26. Blax

    “Everybody won’t work in stem or wall street or become doctors and lawyers.”

    Well a shockingly large and growing number of UMC kids are working in retail – coffee, food services, opening stores etc.

    I’d be surprised if the same number of their kids even go to college. Dad may still be paying for his and mom’s student loans.

    But they did do that semester abroad, which was nice.

  27. “Then there are men who get on with their lives during the course of which babies naturally happen.”

    kfg, babies aren’t happening in the U.S. enough to sustain the native population. Same with most western countries. Because of immigration, the population of the U.S. is actually rising. That keeps the consumer economy going. But you are sticking your head in the sand if you say that there isn’t a problem. And the problem is huuuuge. The powers that be are deliberately ignoring the problem. If they weren’t, reproduction rates would be the lead story in the news every day.

    The problem is by design. Kind of a slow autogenocide. We’ve been fed propaganda that the world is going to be overpopulated. That has never ever been a problem. Even in third world countries, reproduction rates are dropping dramatically.

    Wake up!

  28. “I grew up around working class folks that bought homes and put there kids through college when they could. Most of those kids didn’t aquire crushing debt. Used to be you could work in a factory and make a life and raise a family I’d you chose to do so. Everybody won’t work in stem or wall street or become doctors and lawyers.”

    or academia–that industry is huge.

    I paid off my $3k student debt in less than a year on combined income of $24k. What has changed in higher education between then and now?

  29. Sentient

    I see a lot of the same things, but if you can lock yourself away from broader society at the golf/social clubs long enough, I guess one can tell themselves anything.

    Every day I drive from a working class environ to a super zip, and I get to hear with both ears how some of the umc folks are struggling to provide lifelong opportunity for their offspring in the manner they’ve become accustomed to. The country clubs will be vacant in another generation.

    Hopefully there will be enough retail jobs available.

  30. Asd

    It’s 2019 pal.

    What’s changed? Did you really ask that!

    Lol, I put one child through college in the 2000’s, and have the other currently attending. I think I read somewhere recently that ” college ” has gone up something like 400% since I attended. I worked my way through and left debt free by working at McDonalds and dunkin donuts.

    A lot has changed and continues to do so.

    Same with having kids. Kids cost money. I wanted 4 or 5 kids, but settled on a number I could reasonably afford to raise. On top of all the societal/governmental fuckery, economics are a factor. If you don’t want your tax dollars supporting ” non native “…😂 kids and families, then first you need to open your eyes to the economic reality on the ground in the current year, not 30-40 years ago.

    How many 30 year old men do you think can support a family with a sahm?

  31. Kfg

    Amazon prime is king 👑.

    I debate my business minded friends who maintain that the answer to amassing wealth is to be a business owner and entrepreneur.

    But the customers need to have money/disposable income.

    Right now we run mostly on debt. Great for the banks, horrible for actual people. But there’s a fix – 40-50 year mortgages and 10 year auto loans.

  32. The thing is, the whole thing can be tanking at the 30,000 foot level, and it probably is doing so, but as an individual the only thing you can control is what is happening in your own life. The rest is “given context” — the environment within which you have to make choices about your own life. It isn’t subject to being changed by you in the same way as your own life is, so it doesn’t make sense to focus on the 30,000 foot issue, but instead to focus on your own life.

    It’s true that a lot of UMC lemmings are going to have a hard time replicating their success generationally. That’s because even though they are UMC, they are followers, lemmings and not “above average”. They are above average overall, yes, but not within their own strata — within their own strata they are lemmings, followers and dead average for highly educated folks. They are also dead meat in the coming world.

    You have to be pushing it. Always push. Being an educated UMC lemming isn’t enough. Push it. Be the best of your strata.

    Does this work for everyone? Of course not. But “everyone” is the 30,000 foot issue, and not your issue. YOU can be the best of your strata, and you have to be in the coming world to avoid poor results. So focus on doing that, and not on the 30,000 foot issue, or how we will deal with “everyone else” — that’s all outside your control anyway/

  33. “I’d be ashamed to admit that I’m a Darwin Award candidate or that I will settle for being half a man instead of working to make myself into a man whom women want to have sex with.”

    Naw. Not when only about 5-10% of the women post 23 are putting any effort at all towards making themselves into women that men want to have sex with. It has to be at least a somewhat level playing field or it’s just going headlong into degradation and wasted time. I can’t blame this guy at all for utilizing the escort life and freeing up his time for projects/work/life

    “working to make myself into a man whom women want to have sex with”

    Now we’re getting into a conundrum. At what point are the women so low value and so apathetic towards men that STILL trying to alpha up/win their approval just becomes the same begging/pedestalization that typifies betas? If women are of such low value is just walking away from them the actual alpha move?

    (cue OMG digital-alpha chest-beating and stories of 19 year old 9’s keeping a thermos of their semen in their purse)

  34. (cue OMG digital-alpha chest-beating and stories of 19 year old 9’s keeping a thermos of their semen in their purse)

    I see what you did there.

  35. I’m more concerned with the “everyone else” coming to deal with me.

    Agree — the 30,000 foot issue eventually plays itself out and has an impact on everyone.

  36. John James

    No man should WORK towards being a man women want to have sex with. That’s the realm of pua.

    A man should work towards being the best he can be, because he’s a man. Full stop. The sex thing usually works itself out.

    5-10% of women, huh?

    Interesting percentage.

    MUst depend on where one lives.

  37. In the future we will all make our livings by delivering Amazon packages to each others houses.

    That’s a relief. I thought we were all going to be government services employees.

  38. Thanks for the talking to, Blax. I’m a different man now. LOL. So relentless. One would think you’d be out riding buffalo through a thunderstorm with a damsel (HB9, 19 years old) under each arm, instead of LIVING FOR YEARS in the RM comments section. Commence OMG digi-alpha cyber hug/support session.

  39. @Blax

    When no one stands up for men that’s what you get. There is an insidious plot not only to destroy manhood, but also dissolve sovereignty and self-determination in the process.

    Friendship is a gift. And it’s worth nothing if it is extended to just any man.

  40. Sorry off topic….but is there a recommendation for a good beginner book on “Game”. I know there is a ton of online resources but I just want to buy a book. Is the Mystery Method still the book to buy? Thx

  41. I lurv SJF, but sometimes he suffers from umc/silver spoon blindspots.

    I.wasn’t referring to the ” shit ” people though.. Just average American youth out of 300+ million people.

    Being optimistic and all is one strategy that’s useful until it makes you oblivious.

    I cured my blindspots by having other men in my tribe check me. And they did in spades.

    That is one of the greatest things ever. To have another man make you prove your merit. Which is pretty much evident in the current “warring” and posturing in the Balkanized manophere. The guys that are content providers with the biggest blindspots and still trying to figure shit out are self-apparent. Trying to figure their shit out. But not having done it yet.

    “Being optimistic and all” is a fine strategy, accompanied by competence and confidence in going forward as a man. Blind optimism is a farce.

    I’m not all that oblivious. I’m pretty mindful. About pretty much everything including driving a car and not getting into a car crash.

    But I’m not out to save the world. Or the millions of young men outside my sphere.

    Except for some that may ask “How can I save myself?”.

    I’m there to help.

    But, I’m not about to lower myself or my family, just because of virtue signalling (the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one’s good character or the moral correctness of one’s position on a particular issue).

    Having your shit together and providing for yourself and your family does not equal being oblivious or not caring for others. At all.

    A silver spoon is not a silver spoon. One can manufacture their own deal with reality. Without whining about it. And keep going with Mastery. Every man should try that.

    “We are, each of us, alone. And this is the first law of masculinity. And it is the most important law. Your value is equal to the value which you bring to the tribe. We are not equal. You are not special. Respect is earned, not given. Your brothers will not love you unconditionally for who you are, just being yourself. They will criticise you, push you to your limits, bring out the best in you, and give you their respect when earned. And this isn’t shocking at all. This is common knowledge to any man. Your childhood is over. The boy is dead. It’s time to be a man for the rest of your life.”
    ― Jack Donovan

    “The collapse may be imminent and its doomsayers may be vindicated, but waiting for the world to start is not the same as starting it.”
    ― Jack Donovan, Becoming a Barbarian

    Only you, a solitary man, starts and maintains your life.

  42. “….but is there a recommendation for a good beginner book on “Game”.”

    What type of Game? I assume single guy getting laid game. Right?

    Who are you and what do you want to do?

    The best book I ever read on game was Manual of Seduction by Franco. It is about Alpha attitude. But universal in single guy, vs. LTR Game.

    https://www.amazon.com/Manual-Seduction-Franco-Meet-Women-ebook/dp/B018YAGH4A

    If you want regular other books to read on game, Roosh’s Bang and Day bang got good reviews. I read Bang a while ago and it was good.

    Krauser on Rollo’s blogroll has a lot of good books that are technical and intellectually based.

    And yes, Mystery Method is still the book to read. It was based on a millenium of seduction theory and tactics. If you haven’t read that start there and then expand.

  43. “Now we’re getting into a conundrum. At what point are the women so low value and so apathetic towards men that STILL trying to alpha up/win their approval just becomes the same begging/pedestalization that typifies betas?”

    At the point of doing it for approval of course. Alpha is created from competition with/ between males,while impressing the opposite sex may be involved, this is secondary to protection and sustenance.

    “If women are of such low value is just walking away from them the actual alpha move?”

    They still need a father or big brother or a male model of alpha even if they aren’t reproductive material for whatever twisted reason.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink
    “Many [female rats] were unable to carry pregnancy to full term or to survive delivery of their litters if they did. An even greater number, after successfully giving birth, fell short in their maternal functions. Among the males the behavior disturbances ranged from sexual deviation to cannibalism and from frenetic overactivity to a pathological withdrawal from which individuals would emerge to eat, drink and move about only when other members of the community were asleep. The social organization of the animals showed equal disruption. …”

  44. ALL human-beings are intrinsically valuable.

    I think all this talk about “beta men” being worthless needs to stop as it’s not true nor helpful.

    Why is so much talk based upon just women’s pre-conceived thinking?

    It’s not reality.

    ALL MEN AND WOMEN can better themselves if they simply choose to.

    It always comes down to CHOICE!

    But even at default NO ONE is “worthless” as a human-being created in God’s Image.

    ~ Bro. Jed

  45. “Why is so much talk based upon just women’s pre-conceived thinking?”

    Basically just to show men in a matriarchal social order the emotionally regulated female thought process and to point out the absurdity of attaching any weight to it (“women’s pre-conceived thinking?”).

  46. KFG: In the future we will all make our livings by delivering Amazon packages to each others houses.

    Lost Patrol: That’s a relief. I thought we were all going to be government services employees.

    That’s what I said. We have always been at war with Target Walmart, Brother.

  47. @kfg @Lost Patrol

    Amazon delivery? But what about the Princes in Nigeria? They can’t do those deliveries!
    Won’t anyone think of them?

  48. “In the future we will all make our livings by delivering Amazon packages to each others houses”

    Lost Patrol: “That’s a relief. I thought we were all going to be government services employees”

    In the future, Amazon might be the government.

  49. “Asd It’s 2019 pal. What’s changed? Did you really ask that! Lol, I put one child through college in the 2000’s, and have the other currently attending. I think I read somewhere recently that ” college ” has gone up something like 400% since I attended.”

    Only 400%? Are you sure about that? I’ve read that college costs increase 7% per year. Assuming that tuition goes up at the same rate, that means that tuition doubles every ten years. If you went to college thirty years ago, then tuition has increased 800%.

    Of course I put kids through college a couple of years before you did. They went to a private school, but had scholarships and their mother and I covered the rest of their tuition. We knew the cost. Did you seriously think I didn’t? Lol, you need to up your game.

    Why do college costs increase so much faster than the rate of inflation? Qui bono? Who loses? Follow the money.

  50. “Today though, women wait too long. They believe the lies of their own Blue Pill, that their SMV is never depleted.”

    Lol, Rollo hints at the point that women have lost a lot of their fecundity and fertility because of college and career for which women delay pregnancy. And this was my point, which was downvoted.

    Most of you “Red Pillers” shade just a tad blue.

    XD

  51. Interesting discussion about the UMC, lemmings is a good description of most of them. The UMC is going to get hit hard during the next downturn a lot of their wealth if they have any is paper wealth and their offspring while “educated” is caught up in UMC lemming land with all their payments.

    The next 50 years of the USA will belong to the hustlers/con men at all levels.

  52. Foxguy

    I don’t wish ill will towards the UMC because technically, I qualify at the lower end of the spectrum. It’s just not a ” club ” I believe in because mostly they appear delusional and overly self centered.

    I’m with sentient 100%, in that it’s only smart to at least understand what’s going on around you, even away from the country club and outside of a small group of people that are exactly like you and believe and cosign each other.

    As Novaseeker said, there are 30,000 feet problems, then there are the things a man can immediately control in his life. This is correct, but a wise man will still be observant of what’s going on. Vital intel. You can’t ( or…you could ) blythly dismiss people not in your ” class ” as unhappy and unlucky.

    As you say, UMC wealth is pretty much a paper illusion. They exist through largess. The real wealth and power will extract that paper wealth whenever they choose because ” that’s where the money is “.

    Yup, ” lemmings ” is a dead on description.on

    Pressure makes diamonds. Lack of sufficient pressure makes lumps of coal. If my home loses 75% of its ” value “, my taxes to up another 20%, my job vanishes into the ether, my car burst into flames, and the markets plunge, I’ll be fine because I wasn’t born with any of these things. Long as muh health holds out, I’m good.

    I just need to keep my eyes open and a finger on broader society’s pulse so I’m not caught flatfooted by the ” unhappy and unlucky “.😁

  53. @Blax

    Same here, don’t wish them any bad, but it’s clear they are the sheep that are going to get sheared in the next downturn, as you said correct because “that’s where the money is”. I may qualify as UMC(don’t care) I was born to poverty but these guys believe in the whole financial system, lock stock and barrel, especially leveraged paper wealth. When you think about it they have no real choice other to believe in it as most don’t have no real skills beyond their chosen specialization. They are as you point pretty tone deaf as to what is happening around them, they keep their kids sheltered, etc. This model works in the interim…………..

    They forget they will have to live with the downcast , heck just wait till little princess meets hot broke dude and watch the entire family go down in flames.

  54. LOL
    Nice try Blax.

    So what you are saying is that you don’t wish ill will against UMC folks, but they are a bunch of ignorant, insular losers that don’t have hardships and that makes them weak. And they are not doing their fair share if they subscribe to Law #10 (even among their elitist punk ass selves). And that their wealth is at risk in 5,4,3,2,1….

    Not hardly.

    Got any other windmills to tilt at?/imaginary enemies to pontificate about?

    How would you otherwise give advice to any one young man? Don’t go to college, especially don’t have your parents pay for you, don’t be tenacious in being self sufficient, don’t choose your location to live best in, daddies don’t let your kids grow up to be lemmings, blah, blah, blah…

  55. Self sufficiency never included having your parents hold your hand.

    I council young men to truly be self sufficient first. Do all that you can for yourself, then you’ll really appreciate when people step up to help. That way he won’t trick himself into believing that he’s self made and has had ” struggles “..

    Again, nothing against people that have basically had it easy for whatever reason, until they try to present themselves as having overcome life’s nastier obstacles.

    That’s all I’m saying.

  56. Self sufficiency never included having your parents hold your hand.

    I council young men to truly be self sufficient first.

    In 1979, my father asked me where I decided to go to college as I was helping him do some yardwork on a rental property. I said: “Notre Dame”. He asked how I was going to pay for it. I told him I have some money saved up and my mother promised to help. He replied: “That’s my money too, you know….” and “I want my kid to have every opportunity to go to school that I did: None!” (He was raised poor. He had paid his way through college and dental school as a pharmacist).

    So I decided to be the opposite of my father and paid all of my kids college.

    And they are not hardly weak minded yet. They certainly had great role models in the community.

    So if you want to keep talking about people, rather than things, or ideas, then keep it up.

    https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/11/18/great-minds/

  57. People ask me to predict the Future, when all I want to do is prevent it. Better yet, build it. Predicting the future is much too easy, anyway. You look at the people around you, the street you stand on, the visible air you breathe, and predict more of the same. To hell with more. I want better. –Ray Bradbury

  58. Foxguy

    True story: the owner and coo at the company I work for is the same age as I am. He inherited the business when his father, whom I adored, passed away. His son however, never had an actual job. He went to ” the best business schools and ivy league schools “, but his only work experience was at the company his father inherited when the man that actually built the company from nothing but an idea and balls.

    I like the son/current owner as a person, but I understand that he was raised in a different atmosphere. His father refused to retire because he was concerned about the son taking over the company. So the father worked until his health failed him and eventually succumbed to Alzheimer’s in his late 80’s.

    When the son took over, his first 2 official acts were 1) dissolve the pension plan ( I was exempt/grandfathered) 2) immediately plunge a company that carried zero debt for a century into debt. 3) out us all on notice that we won’t ever be paid if a natural disaster presents our coming to work ( after hurricane Sandy our facility was without power and water for 10 days. The old man issued paychecks because he didn’t want employees having more hardships on top of the hurricane). That was nice, and it will never happen again.

    The old man worked 5 days a week, and took 3 weeks vacation a year. The son is hardly at work, and takes off to climb mountains and sail and ski and buy homes. His wife is a nice enough woman, but she seems to look at the ” working folks ” with disdain, like we’re hired help instead of the people that actually keep things running while she spends millions and millions renovating and adding executive dinning rooms, conference rooms, and expensive artwork.

    There’s usually a difference in those that build and those that are given.

    Now the owner is grooming his kids to take over one day, and again these kids haven’t had any other work experience.

    It bothers me that whoever takes my position after I retire or quit, will earn half of what I earn, get no real retirement plan and a fraction of the health and other benefits. I mean, I could only be concerned with me and mine, but that still doesn’t blind me to the heartkessness of these actions that are only happening because a son was handed a billion dollar multinational Corp without having to work for it, and is busily strip mining the people who keep the lights on.

  59. “Self sufficiency never included having your parents hold your hand.”

    Never?

    Could we agree a hand up is better than a hand out?

    Functional interdependence is predicated by independence.

    Independence isn’t the goal here. Knowing how one best serves another is the best way to serve oneself. Case in point, knowing how a woman needs to be treated elicits likewise treatment.

  60. An old saw analogy regarding all this is how sheep, wolves and goats function.

    Sheep are dependent and vulnerable.

    Wolves are independent and live harsh lives.

    Goats are aware within the flock of sheep beyond the sheep and warn of impending danger. They live well.

  61. The predictions of the decline of the U.S. are predicated on things continuing as before. But Trump is a break in the downward spiral and is indicative of a new wind.

    There are two continuing factors behind the new wind: lower immigration and an aging populace. Both of these factors herald a conservative renaissance, of which Trump is the forerunner.

    Add in the fact that the Red Pill is becoming more widespread and you will see more resistance to feminism, especially among young men. This does not bode well for liberalism.

  62. The people who don’t want you to help your kids be better than their kids are cheap/worthless asses who probably want to enslave your children at some point.

  63. Yollo

    Agree, but define ” help “.

    Do you lie, cheat, steal and manipulate to ” help ” your kids?

    Or do you teach and train them to be competitive and intelligent?

    Setting up mechanisms where people just automatically succeed and advance because ” legacy ” is a problem. Like those people that paid to get their kids into colleges and fudged s.a.t. Scores. Those folks excuses are that they were trying to help their kids.

    Okay, cool, but ” systems ” shouldn’t allow that ( in a perfect world ), because these people often get to bypass pitfalls and unfairness that’s a natural part of human existence.

    This country has gone down this particular road before. That’s how we wound up with a ” death tax ” in the first place, and wealthy families kids avoiding wars and such.

    anyway, I don’t fault people’s sometimes misguided and delusional efforts. I do fault systems that play along.

  64. @Blax

    Yeah he or his wife are going to run that company into the ground that type of mismanagement can go on for awhile but eventually it comes out, GE is a perfect example. I remember one of my friends telling me a story about Jack Welch back a long time ago, his friends dad was on the executive team and would regularly dine with Welch. Apparently Jack’s main concern at the time was how cut as much people as possible to boost quarterly numbers. This story was told to me before the current GE mess and at time Welch still had a very good name, since then it’s become clear he was just kicking the can down the road.

    Your company sounds like it is privately held, expect an IPO when they can’t juggle the balls anymore, an IPO that will no doubt be bought heavily directly and inderictly by the vaunted 401Ks the UMC holds :), sheep for shearing. I have yet to see a truly mentally tough UMC second generation product, it’s all smoke and mirrors. They go to these IVY league schools and it doesn’t matter what field they go into they make a mess of it, whether it’s healthcare/education/business.The biggest growth in the American economy is from the services business, and finance and insurance is the biggest component, pretty much UMC/MC products.

    It’s a hustlers economy and becoming even more so, IVY league degrees won’t protect you. Actual education with some street smarts is the future. We are becoming Latin America day by day in the amount of corruption in all the institutions. Ironically street smarts is the key there……

  65. @Blax

    You’re right. People shouldn’t vet their company. They should just associate with anyone. Regardless what their reputation is.

  66. “Or do you teach and train them to be competitive and intelligent?”

    Discipline can not be trained.

    I ask this to my children: “If you could be one and only one of the following, what would it be. Intelligent or Successful or Popular or Good?”

    Their answer is a reflection of my influence on them, not of them.. Any answer other than “Good” is an indictment of my fatherhood. Reason is many have been the other three, or a combination of, and been truly horrible people.

    Generally we make people, ourselves included, much worse than we make them better by neglect or teaching and training them to value things that are only useful (n-count included). We thrive only when unfettered, not force-fit into what one guy or system or ego thinks we should be.

    “Let me tell you your options, son, as I’ve seen it all. This is how it’s done.”

    It’s that ^^^^^ unchecked ego that contributes more to young men’s inability to realize a authentic, naturally assumed live, love.

    Moreover, that self-same attitude toxifies
    personal relationships. It assumes others don’t or won’t act in personal-social situations with out top-down force.

    The assumption is incompetence. How’s a young guy to react to that?

  67. “The assumption is incompetence. How’s a young guy to react to that?”

    Hopefully not with rage, contempt, or un-earned confidence.

  68. Discipline can absolutely be trained, self discipline stems from the individual discipline shown to children, you can acquire it as an adult but it’s much harder.

    This is not some murky area, it’s very clear , my dad only had an elementary education but he was one of the most disciplined people I knew growing up and it had a huge impact on me. He didn’t have to say jack all I had to do was watch and know he was highly disciplined, I am showing my son the same.

  69. “Education and career aren’t the main drivers as to why women aren’t having kids ( the way they used to ). Lol, most women aren’t in college or in demanding,high paying jobs.”

    60% of college students are women. And I’m pretty sure that the number of students in college hasn’t declined. Earth to Blax, women don’t have to have demanding, high paying jobs to have a career. It’s primarily the UMC that isn’t reproducing due to education. Women in insurance, banking, construction, and real estate have careers and aren’t necessarily UMC. Abortion, of course, hits reproduction in all classes. Rollo: “Today though, women wait too long.”

    Why don’t you argue with Rollo?

  70. “In 2015, the most recent year for which data is available, 72.5 percent of females who had recently graduated high school were enrolled in a two-year or four-year college, compared to 65.8 percent of men.Nov 27, 2017”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2019/05/30/college-enrollment-spring-2019-the-downward-slide-continues/#20fe253f36ce

    “United States Population 2019. According to the US Census Bureau’s population clock, the estimated 2018 United States population (February 2018) is 327.16 million.Jul 29, 2019”

  71. Hammersmith,

    Earnings qualify me as ” UMC” just barely by New Jersey standards.


    Are you middle class? Depends where you live in NJ

    The overall average in New Jersey for what is considered to be middle class income for a family of four is between $60,000 and $177,000 a year.

    According to Rutgers University economist James Hughes, “middle class” can mean many things these days. But “somebody earning $60,000 in New Jersey would really be struggling to say they’re in the middle class.”

    NJ 101.5, September 19, 2018″

    “Hughes pointed out that not too long ago, “middle class meant that you could live a good life and only have one spouse working. Today, to be middle class, it really takes two working spouses.”

    He said the amount of income needed in New Jersey to be considered part of the middle class is higher than in most other parts of the nation because of our sky-high housing costs.

    “This includes the actual price of housing and the cost of living in the housing: property taxes, insurance and utilities,” he said.

    He said a family earning $190,000 a year in parts of North Jersey may sound like a small fortune to some, but “housing costs are extraordinarily high the closer you get to New York City.”

    According to the Pew Analysis, 52 percent of adults in the United States live in middle class households. In North Jersey, 48 percent of households are middle class. And in Central Jersey, 50 percent of families are in the middle income bracket.”

    Median income: $70,165

    Lower middle class: $46,777

    Upper middle class: $140,330

    …. that 140 number seems suspiciously low though.

    So going by earnings ( from job ) I can qualify. Lol, I’m close enough to NYC to see the Empire State building from my backyard, so things tend to get crazy expensive as I’m not in The Suburbs, as some new Yorkers like to say. Unlike most UMC folks, I don’t count assets as they are ever shifting. I have a classic car that has gone from a high of 145,000 dollars a decade ago, to a tick over 65,000 the last time I checked. That market is volatile so I don’t count on it for anything. Ditto Home value.

    I live in a quiet working class community, populated mostly by retirees and working families. It bumps up against a UMC a few blocks away ( historic district of palatial mansions and so forth built by the men that built the city ). I’ve no inheritance ( yet….hang tough Dad!!! ) and have always started from the bottom and worked my way up. I worked my way through school ( Parents couldn’t afford….no sweat . My sisters were luckier when time came for them to go to school. My generation was the first to attend college.)

    I have investments, but I didn’t earn enough to start seriously investing until I was in my late 30’s. In fact I was far away from UMC until I was at least 40.

    I’m too old for rose colored glasses. I do believe that men have to work, and work hard ( and smart ). Lol, my Dad worked hard and had his business, but he was in his 30’s by that time, and when I wanted to go to school, his young business was still getting fully established. He made the bulk of his money in about a 20 year span and retired. So there wasn’t really anyone to look to as far as financing my future. And I was raised not to stand around waiting for people to hand me bags of cash. So having the cash/income hasn’t changed my outlook or experience – most people have to think and work and go through struggle and not give up. It’s not wonderful or easy or filled with great people all patting you on the back.

    It’s you and your will.

    I don’t have the same mindset of those who don’t know what I know, or experienced what I’ve experienced. So mentally, I’ll never actually be UMC.

    Plus, I hate labels. Lol.

  72. Foxguy

    “Discipline can absolutely be trained, self discipline stems from the individual discipline shown to children, you can acquire it as an adult but it’s much harder.

    This is not some murky area, it’s very clear , my dad only had an elementary education but he was one of the most disciplined people I knew growing up and it had a huge impact on me. He didn’t have to say jack all I had to do was watch and know he was highly disciplined, I am showing my son the same.”

    ( o/t I tried numerous times to stick my dick in Lauryn Hill, lol…good times )

    If discipline couldn’t be ” trained “, there’s be hardly any Marines. At all.

    Many older men are letting younger men down by not at a minimum, providing good examples. I too learned more by watching my Dad than I did by waiting for him to tell me something. His main point all my life was ” THINK for yourself because thinking is free and nobody else controls it “.

    In any endeavor the first thing I had to do was to commit to being disciplined about going about that thing. Men encouraged, but I had to strengthen the self discipline.

  73. Character (including discipline) comes from within. I can train my kids to succeed tho they’ll only be aping an idea I put in their heads until they recognize chasing success isn’t what this is about. Then they slosh around looking for direction beyond WYSIWYG.

    Training discipline is a cart before the horse situation. The disciplined train.

    If Marines are trained to succeed then the Marine Corps can take credit for all individual success. That’s not how it works though. Each individual Marine (and everyone else, btw) must choose to prepare themselves. The Corps doesn’t do the choosing. The Marine Corps successes and failures, both, are borne in the individual though seen in the aggregate. The above is the sole reason our volunteer armed forces are the best. It’s the chosen volunteerism that makes Marines disciplined. The Marine Corps adds visual and physical sensibility, order and direction to the individual spirit.

    We are successful as we choose to be. If not, then there’s no point in getting up tomorrow as life is meaningless.

    And again, sterile n-counts have zero posthumous meaning. No one will care how many fleshy holes your dick has resided…like it never happened. Poof!

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