Promise Keepers

I had a 25 year old guy relate to me recently how disappointed with himself he was. He’d gotten together with a new girlfriend, made that commitment of exclusive monogamy, and had all the noble intents most betas assume when they enter that form of pseudo-marriage. The problem was that he’d had a fuck buddy for some months prior to his ‘legitimately’ dating his now girlfriend and regrettably had to cut her out of his life. Predictably, the FB was upset as most become when presented with losing the investment of all those sexual encounters unencumbered with little or no emotional rewards. The guy was determined to honor his arrangement with the new GF, but the FB persisted and became more emotionally invested until they settled upon a ‘just friends’ solution to their prior involvement.

After a week the guy has doubts about the GF and since he and the FB are ‘still friends’ they get together to discuss said doubts. Needless to say this discussion then leads to comfortable, reliable, “sure thing” sex with the former fuck buddy and now we come to the regret and disappointment he feels about himself. One might think that this is a simple case of a 25 year old sorting out what works for him sexually and his struggle with monogamy in the light of having other actionable options, but his disappointment doesn’t originate in this.

“I feel like a piece of shit because i promised my self over 10 years ago I would never do this. I broke my only promise to my self that I always stuck with.”

I found it interesting that a then 15 year old boy would have the prescience to make some vow of fidelity to a future girlfriend (or wife) to himself. For obvious reasons he didn’t strike me as particularly religious – he didn’t have a ‘promise ring’ on either for that matter. So what was it?

“I can pick up girls and bed them no problem anymore, but when it comes to relationships, I’m lost completely. And yes I do feel like something is missing with my current GF.”

That explains part of it. Alpha while single, beta when monogamous is a very common theme for the feminized, preconditioned youth of today. And of course in light of having (and having had) other sexual options that Alpha-Single / Beta-Monogamous conflict about a girlfriend is to be expected, but that still didn’t explain the promise or the disappointment adequately.

“I felt like a piece of shit. Over 10 years ago when my Dad cheated on my mom, I PROMISED my self i will never be like my father and cheat. I never cheated ever, until tonight. I feel numb, confused, and dont know what to do.”

Slay the Father

One common theme I’ve encountered amongst the more zealous beta White Knights I’ve counseled over the years has been this determination, bordering on fanaticism, with outdoing the life-performance of their asshole fathers. Before I go on further, many of them had legitimately rotten, alcoholic dads, who were abusive to them and their mothers. Others had the perception of their fathers colored for them either by their ‘strong independent®’ single mothers, or by watching their fathers resolve their own beta tendencies in a post-divorce life. Whatever the case, each of these guys had a mission – to be a better man than their father was, protect their mothers, and by extension the future mother their girlfriends and wives would become for them. His father’s personal failings would be his personal triumphs.

The problem inherent in this modern day Oedipus scenario is that the feminine imperative is more than happy to use it to its universal social advantage. Feminization and its blue-pill conditioning of boys to be better “men” is defined by how well that “man” is acceptable to a feminine culture. Thus we get gender blurring, and boys are taught to pee sitting down by single mothers because “your asshole dad always made a mess and left the lid up.” Better ‘men’, uniquely feminine-acceptable men, pee like women.

The father-hating boy becomes the masculine-hating adult beta male. Feminine social conditioning is cruel to be sure, but nothing cements that conditioning in better than a living example of what a man is not to be and then committing your life to not becoming it. As I stated earlier, those considerations may be legitimate, but the end result is the same; a beta who thinks women will categorically appreciate his devotion to the feminine by his promise not to become like “other guys” – like his asshole dad.

This is in fact a very solid extension of Beta Game‘s presumption that women will view him as unique amongst other men for being so well adapted to identify with the feminine. And of course the majority of women who care more about dominant Alpha characteristics, who have no appreciation for his ‘promise to be a better man’ then become “low quality” common women to him.

This then is the root of the conflict the guy in my example is experiencing. He’s coming into a more mature understanding of what his father experienced with his mother and women, and it’s clashing with that adolescent declaration of devoting himself to what he thought, and what his conditioning at the time, was his imperative.

“If I’m a better man than dad I’ll be deserving of love the way I envision it, I’ll be appreciated and hypergamy will be inconsequential due to the equity I’ll invest in our relationship.”

Only at 25 he progressively finds that he is just as human, just as male, as his father was.

Beyond Oedipus

Unsurprisingly this is a very tough psychological schema to dig out of a beta who’s invested his ego in it for so long. Even when he experiences firsthand the trauma of realizing that women aren’t the way he’s always believed they would be and taking the red pill, this ‘promise to be better’ persists. Layer onto this the social reinforcement of the ridiculous / reprehensible male, and compound it with either his mother’s vulnerability or her consistently negative characterization of his asshole father, and you have a recipe for a permanent blue-pill existence.

That said, it’s not impossible to unplug ‘promise keepers’ with enough harsh, experiential reality to awaken them out of their adolescent paradigms. Making them aware is the toughest task, but introspect on their own part is the next step. It’s very important to recount the ways ‘bad dad’, and your reaction to him, has directed and influenced your interactions with women. It is a supremely uncomfortable epiphany for ‘promise keepers’ to realize that Mom is just as common as the women rejecting him, who are helping him realize his adolescent presumptions were wrong. Most ‘promise keepers’ are shaken awake by two sources: the consistently incongruous behavior-to-stated-motivations by women, or by his own internal struggle with keeping his promise in the face of what he can’t quite place is what’s in his best sexual interests.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
Gangland
Guest
Gangland
Offline

This post… is just brilliant, It really gets to the heart of “most things beta” In fact.. I’d say it describes my before the red pill mindset almost perfectly. I fought valiantly to not be like my father, to save my mother, and any woman I came into contact with, from being hurt by such a scumbag like him. Whats worse I truly did believe that this made me unique. That most guys were like my father, but not I, I was better, I was nicer, I knew the pain it could cause and I would never do that to… Read more »

Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

I think another important aspect of this is that one over-identifies with the pain of the mother. I saw my mother crying myself to sleep at night as a four year-old because of a bastard dad. That fucks with you. It also makes you way too eager to be a good boy so you don’t cause youre mom any more tears. However, women are not just gentle flowers. They’ve been battlefield nurses who’ve seen horror upon horror and still managed to do the job. I used to be paranoid (still am a bit, but getting over it) about breaking women’s… Read more »

Vicomte
Guest
Vicomte
Offline

Wait until he figures out that his dad felt the same way.

Every. single. time.

muscleman
Guest
muscleman
Offline

The one thing you don’t touch on is the emotional repercussion of cheating. I assume it’s easier for women to rationalize it away thanks to the hamster, but for men it’s a little different. It may not even stem from parents or morals or some sense of duty, but rather a knowing transgression of the Golden Rule. No one likes to feel betrayed and in doing it to others there’s a good chance it’s going to happen to you in return. And even if it doesn’t, it’s like a splinter you can’t remove, one that reminds you of its presence… Read more »

taterearl
Guest
taterearl
Offline

Leaving kids to be brainwashed by their mother is one of the worst things that can happen. It’s no wonder why crime stats go up when only mom is around. There is always another side of the story. The father could have left because the lady he was with nagged him to death, she refused sex, she put him down in every decision, she secretly cheated on him, she had baggage that would cost extra to fly on a plane. But most men suffer in silence. My guess is the father leaves because the mother was just a terrible person…but… Read more »

Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

taterearl: You’re undoubtedly right in the majority of cases, but you’re not in every case. There are husbands who are shitbags. Pure and simple. I’ve swallowed the red pill because of my fidelity to truth. It’s true that the femmes have tilted the playing field and make the rules. It’s true that single-parent families cause a ton of harm. It’s also true that some guys beat their bitches just for the fuck of it. Even though women are usually at fault, they’re not always at fault. Admitting this in no way diminishes from a proper understanding of reality. There are… Read more »

taterearl
Guest
taterearl
Offline

And as a side note…the older I get, the more I appreciate my father. I tell him that as often as possible. At the time when I was growing up he was saying nobody ever appreciates him…I couldn’t relate. I was a kid living off his wages. It’s different when you get out into the real world and do the same thing.

If you are lucky enough to have a good dad I’d suggest you do the same.

taterearl
Guest
taterearl
Offline

” It’s also true that some guys beat their bitches just for the fuck of it.” So a guy with a loving woman who supports him, never puts him down, gives him unrestrained access to her vagina decides he’ll punch her in the face for his amusement. If that man exists he deserves a barb wired dildo up his ass. I don’t know about you but I have never heard of a man who just likes to beat up women. Have you ever gone up to a woman you never met and just decided to hit her so that you… Read more »

docmarreo
Guest
docmarreo
Offline

Fucking Masterpiece

me
Guest
me
Offline

Well here is a different subjective perspective. I grew up with a BPD mother who physically assulted my dad on several occasions and on numerous occasions threatened to cut her own wrists.Currently working in threapy for two decades of emotional abuse with recurrent anxiety and panick attacks. Prior to this i was always attracted to woman who were at the same level of emotional maturity as myself or extremely emotionally damaged in some way. Because of consistent need for affection and approaval i became captain save a ho trying to “fix” everything which was born from trying to fix my… Read more »

Samuel Solomon
Guest

I think one of the key things that can help a beta break out is the realization that they are not special little flowers. Not princesses. They are common, foolish, and even disgusting at times.

When a guy who pedestalizes has no choice to accept the fact that they are depraved little creatures, just as we are, then he no longer has to accept their imperatives.

Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

Man’s (both genders) capacity for evil is unbounded and well-documented. I’ve never felt the urge to beat random women, but plenty of others have. The Rape of Nanking. The Holocaust. Richard Ramirez. All historical facts. None with good reason. Yes, some people like inflicting pain for its own sake. I respect and have no reason to doubt your abhorrence to going “fisty cuffs”, but not everyone’s like you. Watch the movie “City of Life and Death” and then tell me its utterly implausible that some urban thug or looser redneck would never hit his chick for shits and giggles. You… Read more »

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

At least he has a conscience. What ethnic background is he from? He say the tragedy that infidelity caused in his parents relationship, not only for them but for him as well, often in infidelity its the children that feel the most betrayed and cheated. Its telling that he says bedding women is a piece of cake for him but when it comes to actual relationships, he’s completely lost. That’s Western culture for you. It simply does not do relationships. Its all about rugged individualism and trying your hardest to escape interpersonal commitments and therefore the culture and its elders… Read more »

Wilson
Guest
Wilson
Offline

True, sometimes the bad boy is an actual bad boy, not just a PUA simulation, but a woman who chooses him above all others isn’t really a victim. People are violent, but they are also self-destructive. There are more suicides than homicides.

Jeremiah
Guest
Jeremiah
Offline

The Alpha While Single But Beta When Taken is a problem I have experienced. I find that the longer I’m with one particular girl the more difficult it is to perform the alpha male act.

I guess the solution is to keep plowing away until it’s no longer an act.

Emma the Emo
Guest
Emma the Emo
Offline

While what you’re suggesting sounds plausible, the pain of cheating is also a sign he has a conscience and a moral compass. It clashes with his view of himself as a good moral person.

I put a lot of importance into loyalty and even had a nightmare where I cheated with someone I wasn’t even attracted to. Then felt happy when I woke up and realized it was just a nightmare.

This is the first thing I thought when I read his words.

taterearl
Guest
taterearl
Offline

Cheating:

When a woman does it the man feels like a failure, when the man does it he feels like a failure.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

A woman is only interested in a man’s “moral compass” in the luteal phase of her menstrual cycle.

Emma the Emo
Guest
Emma the Emo
Offline

Moral compass is a thing you do and maintain for yourself.

Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

Any advice on how to figure out where in the cycle a woman is when you’re just getting to know her?

youngmanrp
Guest
youngmanrp
Offline

long time reader, rollo, and this post is spot on. I’m in a similar situation to your case study, 25, ltr with a great girl. Out of a relationship, I have no problem with girls when I’m not in a relationship. But then the question comes up inevitably in your mind, even if the relationship you are in is solid: Is it time to cash in your chips and be a man of your word in an LTR? I’m having the same issue right now, and haven’t cheated, but whenever I find myself in a social situation where I’m flirting… Read more »

Phinn
Guest
Phinn
Offline

The problem with having an asshole father is not only that you’re pressured into White Knighting for your mother, who will often PRAISE you for being the diametric opposite of your father, but that your role model of masculinity is not only absent but affirmatively negative, and thus to be avoided. Every beta impulse I ever had originated from my asshole father. If my mother weren’t certified as crazy, I would probably have believed what she said about marriage and men and life, and gone my whole life adopting her frame. Oddly enough, it was her mental illness that actually… Read more »

piercedhead
Guest
piercedhead
Offline

I think you are being a little hard on the guy in attributing his motivations to beta-tude and an overly feminist-favoring home life. Certainly, in his case, these factors likely framed the outcome, but what is being ignored is probably way more important. That is our very masculine aptitude for rules. If we are denied a structure to our lives, we will very quickly fill that void with rules of our own. That is our inheritance as males, being as we are the favored sex with regard to eliminating all problems by first visualising the source, then the system, then… Read more »

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

“A woman is only interested in a man’s “moral compass” in the luteal phase of her menstrual cycle.” Another Yahoo News new-age-pop-culture-evo-psych-for-dummies sound byte. Individuals with moral compasses are interested in their mate’s moral compass all the time. That’s what makes moral people compatible with one another. [Until it conflicts with women’s innate Hypergamy, then it’s a liability. Hypergamy doesn’t care about moral compasses.] “The problem with having an asshole father is not only that you’re pressured into White Knighting for your mother, who will often PRAISE you for being the diametric opposite of your father, but that your role… Read more »

piercedhead
Guest
piercedhead
Offline

“Man’s (both genders) capacity for evil is unbounded and well-documented. I’ve never felt the urge to beat random women, but plenty of others have. The Rape of Nanking. The Holocaust. Richard Ramirez. All historical facts. None with good reason. Yes, some people like inflicting pain for its own sake.:” This is a confusing message. On the one hand we have words like “unbounded” and “plenty” to describe the evil of men (of both genders), and then we have “some people like inflicting pain for its own sake”. Personally, I have never met a man in my entire life who liked… Read more »

Demarcated Values
Guest
Demarcated Values
Offline

I agree @piercedhead. Below are some varying opinions on this example. Always a pleasure to read, Rollo. He probably made the mistake of becoming trapped by the “rules” & examples provided by the provocateurs of Game “Theory”. It’s funny how Game both teaches men how to have it and makes them well-learned in avoiding practicing it. Most men simply aren’t capable of living up to the “Alpha” standards pedestalized by PUA. Incapable because of the sheer retardation & ridiculousness such a character espouses & represents in how it’s often described – though that’s also often an opinion fostered by those… Read more »

Demarcated Values
Guest
Demarcated Values
Offline

@Hopeless Romantic I do. Care. Though I don’t believe it’s anything worth making a fuss over, anymore. Because things have changed, they will continue to. Our parent’s mistakes are our burden to bear, in needing to learn in example how to escape what scenario’s lead them to what situations we witnessed as being destructive. Then again, the only way to avoid becoming different than them is to become like them first – to understand why the infidelity surfaced, and to not let yourself fall victim to such a preyed upon perception of reality – namely, that which led one to… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@Hopeless, you rely far too much on the pollyanna idealism of People are People. Biology trumps conviction.

Demarcated Values
Guest
Demarcated Values
Offline

That’s a good one: “Biology trumps conviction.” I must add, one should know: a Trump’s a card – designed for a purpose. ROTA. Which is as resolute of an illusion as every other idea marketed. Brilliant in execution as per the rarity of those capable of comprehending solve et coagula. Arcana. More feared than the rest we’re taught to play with; or learn via social standards we ought not endorse – lest in secret – for Good’s Reason. Because, by design, one Trump’s ‘arcane’ compared to the sacral offering of an Other’s representation, of the guiding matrices’ axiom of Correspondence… Read more »

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

“Though I don’t believe it’s anything worth making a fuss over, anymore. Because things have changed, they will continue to.” Of course change is inevitable. Right now you’re witnessing the transition from failed monogamy to somewhat successful open marriages. Within 3 decades that will be the norm, though its hard to predict if it will lower the divorce rate of Western people. “Hopeless, you rely far too much on the pollyanna idealism” Idealism? You’ve got to be kidding me. I’m the one who says Western people are incapable, possibly genetically, of sustaining lifelong monogamous commitments and therefore should quicken the… Read more »

Demarcated Values
Guest
Demarcated Values
Offline

Interesting. Can you elucidate this Eastern/Western dynamic of yours? Or point me to where you’ve possibly written about it before.

And yeah, however I don’t think these changes are anything new, they’re just part of the cycle that occurs every 100 years or so.

OlioOx
Guest
OlioOx
Offline

2 quick questions — first, for Hopeless Romantic — what’s this man-respecting culture of yours that you’re so proud of? Pakistani?

Second question — why is the ‘Alpha Game’ blog referred to as ‘Aunt Giggles’? I’m not getting the inside joke here.

Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

“I have come to believe that statements like ‘Man’s (both genders) capacity for evil is unbounded and well-documented’ are little more than cultural scripts that have currency, but are rarely based on any immediate truth.” That’s because WE’RE LUCKY AS HELL. Extreme brutality has been the norm in damn near every society, large and small, until the West, and the West was brutal almost without exception until the 19th Century (only to revert back in the 20th with the Nazis and Commies). Aztec human sacrifice. Samurai behedding random people at will to test their new swords. Romans crucifying thousands of… Read more »

Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

“Aunt Giggles” is Susan Walsh of Hooking-Up-Smart. Vox Day of alphagame sometimes comments there (I think, I’ve never been).

OlioOx
Guest
OlioOx
Offline

Cheers Martel. By the way, everyone should read Steven Pinker’s latest opus, The Better Angels of Our Nature (it’s huge but you can just read a few key chapters to get the point.) It exhaustively documents how violence has gradually but steadily declined throughout human history, and continues to decline today. World Wars I and II were anomalous blips in this otherwise steady decline, and all the small regional conflicts that our constantly in the news are terrible of course, but the total numbers of casualties involved, year after year, nevertheless correspond to the general pattern of decline. Check iSteve… Read more »

greenlander
Guest
greenlander
Offline

OlioOx, I didn’t find any reference to “Aunt Giggles” in this blog post or the discussion. But when people in the ‘sphere refer to “Aunt Giggles” they’re normally referring to Susan Walsh, who runs a blog called “Hooking up Smart”

Dillon
Guest
Dillon
Offline

“Promise Keepers” are also the type who believe in love based marriage. They promise “to love till death”. The problem with this is that no one can honestly predict how one will feel at anytime in the future. No matter how much “in love” one is, the feeling can end at any time without much of a warning. Humans are dynamic beings and their preception, mood and feelings keep changing as they grow almost on a daily basis. Anyone who promises to keep loving in future is either a fool or a liar. A man can promise to “try to… Read more »

WorkInProgress
Guest
WorkInProgress
Offline

For those who don’t know anyone who likes to beat on women, remember we tend to hang out and befriend others who share our values and tastes. Assholes run in packs. (My dad was a cop. Trust me — wife-beaters aren’t just cheap-ass t-shirts.)

Like you guys, I don’t personally know any wife beaters. And if I did, it’s exit stage right at the earliest possible opportunity. Why hang around a walking, breathing dumpster fire if you have a chance to get away from the mess???

YaReally
Guest
YaReally
Offline

Problem with a lot of them is because dating lots of women is “asshole behavior”, they don’t get enough exposure with women to learn what they’re really like and hit the turn-around points Rollo mentions. The type of chick I thought I wanted when I was 20 and had no experience with women is like the complete 180 of what I’ve found I’m ACTUALLY attracted to, now that I’ve met a ton of women. If I had settled down with the girl I thought I wanted at 20, I’d be like this guy right now, straying on her and feeling… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally
Offline

Also with regards to hitting…I’ve known guys who hit girls. I’ve also known girls who like being hit. There’s a lot of grey area when the two of them start a relationship. The fucked up part is that in some cases it actually works for them.

I think it’s hilarious that Rhianna’s shit-show with Chris Brown was pretty much an uppercut in the taint of feminist-types. “How could she go back to him???” What a mind-fuck for everyone in the MSM lol

P.S. I’ve never hit a girl. Except in the bedroom if she likes that.

Sadoeconomist
Guest
Sadoeconomist
Offline

Am I the only one here who’s into BDSM? I enjoy causing pain and my masochist lovers enjoy receiving it. Sadism is only evil if it’s not consensual. And everyone saying they’ve never met someone who enjoys causing pain is being awfully naive. You don’t know what your friends and neighbors are doing behind closed doors. I guarantee that some of them have floggers in their closets. Also, ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ map pretty well onto ‘dominant’ and ‘submissive.’ If you want to understand power dynamics in sexual relationships, you should look at the most advanced practitioners: the BDSM community. A… Read more »

BALZAC
Guest
BALZAC
Offline

Nope, you’re not the only one.

BDSM, however, is not violence.

Nobody is really hurt.

On the contrary.

taterearl
Guest
taterearl
Offline

“Guys who grow up with multiple sisters generally don’t become White Knights because they grew up seeing what girls and groups of girls are like when no one else is around and they know not to take them seriously. Once of the best Natural players I’ve ever met had 5 sisters.”

That’s probably why it took me a while to get girls…I grew up with one brother and had a nice brainwashing through school and the media.

But yeah you date and interact with enough girls you begin to see what they really are.

taterearl
Guest
taterearl
Offline

…and hitting a girl because she gets pleasure out of it, is a different scenerio from the one I said about a guy hitting a girl for his amusement.

Tam the Bam
Guest
Tam the Bam
Offline

Hopeless: “Of course, for you people. You don’t do conviction.” LOL I do. Of course, being a brit, I nicked it from some enlightened foreigner. You ain’t seen me right? “Idealism? You’ve got to be kidding me. I’m the one who says Western people are incapable, possibly genetically, of sustaining lifelong monogamous commitments “. I’m really quite keen to see your citations for that revolutionary hypothesis. Ah, most astute. “Hence why I employ two entirely different relationship models in my global work; one for the cultures West of Turkey and one for the cultures East of.” What “work” would that… Read more »

Wilf
Guest
Wilf
Offline

I’ve been thinking about my non-relationship with my father for a while now and your post is pretty much the template that I fall into. It was kind of a perfect storm – having an asshole, alcoholic dad and being a young adult at the apex of feminism in the mid 80s to mid 90s. This cemented me as a nice guy, white knight, mangina happily towing the feminist line. As sad and difficult as this is to say, there was a time when I was ashamed of being a man. I am so glad that those days are behind… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Guest
Tam the Bam
Offline

“Watch the movie “City of Life and Death” and then tell me its utterly implausible that some urban thug or loser redneck would never hit his chick for shits and giggles.” Martel, you don’t even need to watch movies. Here’s some Scum-Cam recording from quaint old London Town the other day. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9692807/Police-release-shocking-CCTV-footage-of-unprovoked-attack-on-teenager.html Only unusual in that it was daylight, and he wasn’t hiding his face (in the Land of Permanent Mass Surveillance? You what? ; that’s mainly why they’re all ranting and raving about him being a “foreigner” in the comments. First rule of brit club .. don’t smile! you’re… Read more »

Wudang
Guest
Wudang
Offline
Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

“Of course, for you people. You don’t do conviction.” Fuck you. Especially because it’s a comment on this post. We’re not here because we lack conviction, we’re here because we have convictions but they’ve been used against us. Yes, Beta is a strategy, but sometimes it’s also genuinely trying to do the right thing. I’m sure I’m not alone here in that time after time I was crapped on by women I genuinely cared about. If my competition for Tracy or Sara or Nicole (this list goes on) were other guys I thought were decent, I would have backed off… Read more »

xsplat
Guest
xsplat
Offline

“Cheating: When a woman does it the man feels like a failure, when the man does it he feels like a failure.” If you frame it as cheating, you are setting yourself up for failure. Either failure by cheating, or by not cheating. For myself I never promise monogamy, and refuse to answer questions about where I’ve been. It’s a different mindset that can take some years to internalize. But it’s honest, while not being in-her-face about it. When you’re with her, you are with her. No cell phones ringing. And you may or may not see other people. Not… Read more »

taterearl
Guest
taterearl
Offline

“It’s a different mindset that can take some years to internalize. But it’s honest, while not being in-her-face about it. When you’re with her, you are with her. No cell phones ringing. And you may or may not see other people. Not really her business. Either way you don’t talk about it. No reassurance, no lies.”

I find it hilarious when a guy tells his lady some other woman flirted with him but he shot her down. Nothing good can come from that exchange.

imnobody
Guest
imnobody
Offline

@Martel said it all. Martel’s story is the story of us all.

Every guy in the Manosphere used to be a beta, a hopeless romantic, but an intelligent one and it was impossible for the society to lie to him forever. He connected the dots and the rest is history.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

How many times am I gonna link this?

True Romantics.

xsplat
Guest
xsplat
Offline

“My wife would have a pattern of provoking me verbally and then invading my space physically to the point that it would make me fly off the handle, and grab her, or push her away.” That’s a classic BPD move. I’ve seen it often, especially from one BPD nutball I lived with. Yes, girls will deliberately provoke rage. They win on all sorts of fronts. For one they are addicted to the adrenalin rush of intense emotions. For another they only feel in control of their own minds when they have puppet master like control over your mind. If you… Read more »

xsplat
Guest
xsplat
Offline

I find it hilarious when a guy tells his lady some other woman flirted with him but he shot her down. Nothing good can come from that exchange. However it’s still important for the girl to realize that the man has options, and so invoking jealous dread has it’s place. It depends on how much status she invests you with. If you have plenty of hand and she feels that you have strong options and are not too attached to her, you can be more reassuring and comfort providing. But if she thinks she can do better and you have… Read more »

taterearl
Guest
taterearl
Offline

My though it she should see it happen with her own eyes rather than you telling her about it. Nothing gets dread going like seeing it with her own eyes. For all she knows…you could be lying if she has never seen it happen in real life.

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

“They promise “to love till death”. The problem with this is that no one can honestly predict how one will feel at anytime in the future. No matter how much “in love” one is, the feeling can end at any time without much of a warning. Humans are dynamic beings and their preception, mood and feelings keep changing as they grow almost on a daily basis. Anyone who promises to keep loving in future is either a fool or a liar. A man can promise to “try to provide” for a woman in return something but love is not in… Read more »

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

“It’s a different mindset that can take some years to internalize. But it’s honest, while not being in-her-face about it. When you’re with her, you are with her. No cell phones ringing. And you may or may not see other people. Not really her business. Either way you don’t talk about it. No reassurance, no lies.”

Agreed. Unless there’s a ring on the finger and a formal, family and society sanctioned official engagement, couples are more or less just dating and free to see whomever they want at any time.

“No walk before the talk”

AlphaBeta
Guest
AlphaBeta
Offline

“He’s such an upstanding, honorable, honest, law-abiding citizen… it makes me so wet!” said no woman ever

AnonWriter
Guest
AnonWriter
Offline

I don’t know if this is on-topic, but I’ve found that when I am in a relationship, there is tremendous pressure to strip myself of whatever attributes and interests I may have that make me feel like a man. These pressures, admittedly, are not just external. I’ve been programmed this way, and it is not easy to undo… if that’s even possible. It is this internal pressure to emasculate myself that makes the external pressure have power over me. I don’t like being molded into a eunuch, but I am shamed when I don’t act like one, and shame is… Read more »

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

“I don’t like being molded into a eunuch, but I am shamed when I don’t act like one, and shame is powerful. I need more time with just men, but all my friends have also been shamed. Guy’s night out only happens maybe once a year now, and even then some of the guys ‘aren’t allowed’ to go.”

Once a month is reasonable. Some women schedule Ladies’ Night Out once a week so Guys’ Night Out can be once a month.

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret
Offline

I don’t think we should feed this troll any longer. Just ignore him/her.

Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

AnonWriter: I struggle with the same things. As moronically irrational is it is, when I’m about to truly make a big step forward, I feel guilty for some dumbass reason and take steps backwards. Now that I’m older, when I get in really good shape with low bodyfat, my face is more drawn and I look more my age. However, even if my face isn’t as “cute”, women find me far more attractive, even with my shirt on, probably because they can tell I’m just dying to rip it off. But I’ve gotten comments from women in the family on… Read more »

The Alchemist
Guest

@Martel – Appreciate what you’re doing, you’ll definitely need the company for the approaches, to tell you what you’re doing wrong. IMO though, relying on external conditions, other people to motivate yourself to approach is a pyrrhic victory. Maybe i’m wrong, but shamelessly copy pasting from your comment,

The fight is mine, always has been, always will be.

This.

Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

Alchemist. True, and thanks. And I do know that y’all are more than letters on a screen. You may not be there in the bar with me, but in a way, my victories will be yours. Still, as I get more involved in this, I may try to set up some sort of red-pill network to help like-minded men find each other. I’m sure that Rollo isn’t alone in failing to convince blue-pillers to change their ways, who’ve had incredibly insightful advice fall on deaf WhiteKnight ears. But there are also thousands of us out there who want all the… Read more »

bob
Guest
bob
Offline

Try to have a look at men Clubs throughout history. That’s probably a good way to start your research in how to build a red-pill networks. Nowadays these clubs seem to be high-bourgeoisie’s bullshit, but I’m pretty sure they used to be “accessible”.

Pirran
Guest
Pirran
Offline

““I felt like a piece of shit. Over 10 years ago when my Dad cheated on my mom, I PROMISED my self i will never be like my father and cheat.” There’s a big chunk of the problem. I’m guessing Dad was pushed out the door ASAP and the son never got to hear the other side of the story. Sure, he MIGHT have been a scumbag, but there’s a good chance there were any number of contributing factors the son never got to hear about. Was his Dad denied sex for year after year and finally relapsed (denial of… Read more »

gregg
Guest
gregg
Offline

This boy cheated and he feels guilty. It is not beta thing. It is manly thing. He broke his promise and he feels bad. It is normal, he is the MAN.

I can do open relationships if I want. In a honest way. But if I choose to be exclusive, that´s a different story. I keep my promise as long as the other party behaves. We are not amoral beings shaped by hypergamy, we are MEN.

Martel
Guest
Martel
Offline

“When the father is gone, the mother can manipulate the boy any way she chooses to present herself in the best possible light and the father as the “eveel bad man” of legend (and many women will). Until he talks to his father about it, he’s never going to see the other side and the shadow of his father will loom as large as the guy in the scary helmet. Therein lies the tragedy (and the paradox).” This is often the case, and if you said that it’s usually the case you’d probably be right. But it’s not always the… Read more »

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

“Nowadays these clubs seem to be high-bourgeoisie’s bullshit, but I’m pretty sure they used to be “accessible”.”

Really? What makes you so sure. If anything I’d think they’d be even more exclusive back in the “good ol’ days” than they are now.

bob
Guest
bob
Offline

I know clubs never used to be a place where workers gather, they had something else. Clubs were always a bit bourgeois I guess, but what was praised there was definitely good for society, especially for its lower parts. It is not anymore.

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

” but what was praised there was definitely good for society, especially for its lower parts. ”

What was “praised” there and how and why and in what ways was it good for “lower parts”?

Human
Guest
Human
Offline

@ Pirran I feel the need to chime in. In regards to whoever you’re talking to. I believed for years that men were ‘rapists’ and vowed never to rape women. At age 8 I will never forget my mother crying and telling me how she was “raped” – and that I was the first one to learn that. As she was putting me to bed. After my Father had earned enough money to buy an apartment nearyby after sleeping on his friends couch I was allowed to visit every so often, until he could afford to pay for both my… Read more »

Jason
Guest
Jason
Offline

Human, if you were trying to communicate something, you didn’t succeed. Clarity and brevity. They’ll help you a lot.
Also, let a comment sit for a while. You might come up with a better way to say it.

YaReally
Guest
YaReally
Offline

http://youtu.be/E2lwNe-sTtA

I’ll just leave this here.

bob
Guest
bob
Offline

“What was “praised” there and how and why and in what ways was it good for “lower parts”?” Clubs were safe-harbours were men could stay for a while (even sleep there), and find people with common interests. We can guess that people going there learned to be social, to be part of a group, enjoyed solidarity whenever needed. Maybe it doesn’t like much, but knowing there is a place like that where you can fall back when needed is a huge help for men. That’s kind of what this blog is. We find people with common interests, and we listen… Read more »

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

“At age 8 I will never forget my mother crying and telling me how she was “raped” – and that I was the first one to learn that. As she was putting me to bed.” That is crazy. 8 is way too young to be given that kind of information. An 8 year old child will not know how to process such information, especially about his mother who is usually very beloved to 8 year olds. “I believed until then my Father was an asshole alcoholic who couldn’t do anything but fuck up. I realize now, he was fucked over… Read more »

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

Djeed, are you reading this? The above video posted by YaReally says it all. Notice the new age speak. The PUA industry is drawing a lot from David Deida (author of new age fluff “Way of the Superior Man” and other pseudo eastern “tantrik” dabblings). They are also a huge van of Eckart Tolle who’s got the highly impressionable Western New Age scene abuzz with watered down soundbytes from the Upanishads. Keep watching that video. At the end you’ll have options to watch other ones, such as the one with Owen Cook (aka “Tyler Durden”) pretending to know something about… Read more »

YaReally
Guest
YaReally
Offline

@Hopeless lol do you want me to post the footage of Tyler and his group approaching, making out with, and taking home women? Because there’s plenty of it. Dude has a girl he was with for years before they had any kids, who lets him go out and bang random girls regularly, and he ultimately wants like 5 kids. Being a father is something he wants to do (thus his whole journey into learning how to get women), and he isn’t legally tied to her via marriage and risking half his assets. Guy had his pick of the litter and… Read more »

Fission
Guest
Fission
Offline

There are different Character’s, and different Voice’s. I wonder sometimes how you people get by; as I can’t all the same – ’round cunts brevity; & sum’s pill-swallower’s will, because you’re doing what you do. There is no point to language anymore. Because joke’s are no longer funny, no one can be a comedian. A cop is a dude who wears an outfit, though a police officer knows he has one. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Fuck you. – He who tell’s someone to learn how to write. I doubt what’s read what’s been written by his celestial star’s… Read more »

Jason
Guest
Jason
Offline

Fission,
You’re a Mad Poet.
Or just crazy.

Avoid crazy poet cataracts–wear sunglasses.
Preferably rose-colored.

JS
Guest
JS
Offline

There are pictures of Tyler’s girlfriend/baby-momma online and she is hooooot.

Jason773
Guest
Jason773
Offline

“One concept that gets sapped out of you after going through something like this is “fun”. How can it be fun when either you or her are going to leave the other one shaking on some cement floor somewhere?”

That quote right there really shook me, and it’s been the biggest thing I’ve been struggling with lately. I don’t have malice in my heart and I don’t want to hurt anyone, but damn, sometimes it’s just inevitable…and awful to see.

MW
Guest
MW
Offline

Astute, outstanding post! The psychological mechanics and wiring of such a mentality are complicated indeed and I see a moderate form of them in myself. But in recent years as I’ve gotten older, I view my Dad in a much more sympathetic light and cut my Mom much less slack than I used to (though not by being an asshole).

Really appreciate the blog for posts such as these. Roissy has the in field techniques but yours provides the strategy behind the tactics. Thanks again

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

“Dude has a girl he was with for years before they had any kids, who lets him go out and bang random girls regularly, and he ultimately wants like 5 kids. Being a father is something he wants to do (thus his whole journey into learning how to get women), and he isn’t legally tied to her via marriage and risking half his assets.”

Another stupid sheltered white American who thinks a man isn’t legally tied to a woman he has kids with out of wedlock.

Talk to a Black man someday, if you dare.

Hopeless Romantic
Guest
Hopeless Romantic
Offline

Watched Owen’s videos with his kids.
What a f*cking moron.
A middle aged man referring to the middle aged mother of his children as his “girlfriend”. Americans have no culture. Non whatsoever.

I support the MRAs and PUAs in their endeavors to bring this Shaytan’s Babylon down.

Let the muthafucka burn.

trackback

[…] I suppose I should mention here that virtually all Vichy Males are Promise Keeper. […]

trackback

[…] ways), but a confirmed beta when it came to deference to women. Michael has the predictable ‘promise keeper’s‘ Oedipus beliefs about his biological father, as a result of his having been raised by a […]

Girls love alphas
Guest
Girls love alphas
Offline

Being a beta ain’t bad, just wont get any girls. Betas and omegas, or some call “nice guys” are whiners w/ weak genes. Alphas, or jerks as the “nice guys” call us are the winners with strong genes and the beta and omega can’t handle that. Oh girls change once they reach the age of 30 or even 40 and their used up. They say they want men with experience to be sure they get a nice guy. Guess what, only the jerks will have experience so you beta and omega losers will lose out while we alphas will still… Read more »

trackback

[…] 2.  The mother wins.  In this case, he interprets his mother’s guidance/shit-test mixture as quality guidance.  He’s given up his budding Alpha urge to resist his mother and determined to do the right thing.  He subconsciously associates his mother’s love and (genuine) concern for his well-being with authority and becomes inclined to submit.  He fails his mother’s shit-tests by doing what she wants, and grows up to respect the shit-test requests of other women with the same deference he treated his mother’s request for him to not pee on the toilet seat.  It pains his mother when he defies… Read more »

trackback

[…] Promise Keepers […]

Tom
Guest
Tom
Offline

In relation to most of the other posters of comments for this, I had a “bad dad”, so to speak, as well. My situation is slightly different in that I never fully sought to protect my mother, because she would never leave him. I was, and still am, in the mindset in that it terrifies me to let myself feel anger and rage towards people I care for. Mainly because I could never look at myself i I were to lose my mind like my father did regularly. Lately I am discovering that I must learn to accept that I… Read more »

Rob
Guest
Rob
Offline

“…The problem inherent in this modern day Oedipus scenario is that the feminine imperative is more than happy to use it to its universal social advantage. Feminization and its blue-pill conditioning of boys to be better “men” is defined by how well that “man” is acceptable to a feminine culture. Thus we get gender blurring, and boys are taught to pee sitting down by single mothers because “your asshole dad always made a mess and left the lid up.” Better ‘men’, uniquely feminine-acceptable men, pee like women.” This was pretty much me, in fact if this is posted in wikipedia… Read more »

trackback

[…] want to be like his oppressive or non-present father was. He wants to ‘out-support’ his father’s ghost, or what he believes ‘other guys’ would do when their marriages get […]

trackback

[…] post Mark is referencing was Promise Keepers. In that post I hit this situation from the opposite […]

trackback

[…] entitlement. Sometimes this drive comes from a young man wanting to out-support the performance his father dismally failed at with his victimized mother, but mostly it comes from a thorough Blue Pill conditioning that assures […]

ST
Guest
ST
Offline

This is by far the most painful thing I have ever read. I don’t really even know what to do with it having lived virtually my entire life under inside this lens. I am almost sixty, and now have to live with the fact my whole life has been off, unhappily off, and never able to put my finger on it. I have no idea if I can recover, but what choice …. I just don’t know.

trackback

[…] cede that Frame to their kids. Most men want the very best for their children; or there may be a Promise Keepers dynamic that guy is dealing with an makes every effort to outdo, and make up for, the sins of his […]

trackback

[…] They too took it upon themselves to be men who sacrifice their masculinity for equalism in order to never be like Dad the asshole. I’ve met with the guys whose mothers had divorced their dutiful fathers to bang their bad […]

%d bloggers like this: