Betas In Waiting

betas-in-waiting

I came across another familiar story on the TRP Reddit this week. It’s familiar because this story is becoming increasingly more common as Hypergamy becomes a more open secret that women can no longer keep under wraps.

For the better part of 2014, and in Preventive Medicine, I explored the social trend of Open Hypergamy and the impact it’s beginning to effect on contemporary western(ized) culture. In that exploration I published Saving the Best (another TRP link), a story which revolved around the increasingly more common post-Epiphany Phase “regrets” women have when their Party Years indiscretions are made evident to the Beta men who committed to them in monogamy or marriage.

Have a read of Saving the Best before you continue here, you’ll see the commonalities immediately. I’m going to dissect this “confession” a bit as I go, but bear in mind this woman’s predicament is the direct result of the unintentional Red Pill awareness that Open Hypergamy has brought men to – even uninitiated Beta men.

An update, for those asking for it. Here’s the link to my original post although the text has been deleted? Before I get into the details, I’d just like to say I greatly appreciate the support this community extended me. Believe it or not, I read every response.

As of this morning, we still hadn’t slept in the same bed or spoken more than 10 words to each other in passing. As I was waking up, he was walking in the front door with two coffees. He sat me down at our kitchen table and finally opened up to me.

Basically he feels that he was “conned” (his word) into the marriage, saying that he wouldn’t have even dated me, let alone married me, if he’d known what he knows now. His view of me has been irreparably changed and he no longer sees me “as someone worthy of being [his] wife”. (quoting him here… fucking prick) Beyond the sexual aspect, he says he no longer trusts me because I “kept something this big” from him our whole relationship.

One of the primary disconnects women are conditioned to believe during their Epiphany Phase is that a “good man” will be willing to forgive and forget her past indiscretions. On their journey of self-exploration and discovery women are encouraged to adopt a finely tuned cognitive dissonance with who they conveniently become and what should be the consequences of their pasts. While men are expected to live up to their responsibilities as men, and are expected to own up to the consequences of their failures, at the Epiphany Phase women are encouraged to convince themselves that they become someone else – someone who was “so different” from who she was in her Party Years.

Her husband feels “conned” because he was conned; conned after discovering the dual personality of his pre and post Epiphany Phase wife. What we’re expected to believe here (courtesy of the social conventions emplaced by the Feminine Imperative) is that her husband is some prudish, moralistic throwback unwilling to accept and embrace the “real” her – the one who was trying to “get it right” by turning over a new leaf with him. This is the easy, ready-to-use shame that women have available to them; if a man becomes indignant over a woman’s sexual past it translates into his insecurities as a man. His feeling conned over his bait & switch marriage is redirected to being his problem.

Men aren’t off the hook with that convenient convention either. There’s a moral high ground many men want to claim and cast the actions of a guy in this circumstance as virtuous and a proper revenge for being mislead. While that may feel good, men in this situation aren’t disillusioned with their ‘unworthy’ wives from a moral pretense, but rather that they believed they would be entitled to their wives’ sexual best reserved for him. As I quoted in Saving the Best, they “marry a whore who fucks like a prude.”

Subjectively that may or may not be the case, but it’s the freedom and genuine desire with which their wives had sex with prior (Alpha) lovers; desire that wasn’t based on material provisioning, emotional investment or the logistical hoops women expect their post-Epiphany “good men” to perform to in order to merit their sexual and intimate attentions. That’s the disconnect, that’s the con; Alpha Bad Boys get her 3-Way genuine sexual abandon with no investment expected, while he’s got to maintain ‘multiple businesses’ in order to get a prosaic sexual experience with her. The Bad Boys got her sexual best for free, while he’s expected to accept her as the ‘new’ post-Epiphany her…

Nothing I could do or say could convince him that these were past mistakes and not reflective of who I am today. He wasn’t angry with me, didn’t call me a slut or anything like that. Never once raised his voice. Part of me wishes he did, although I can’t exactly say why right now. It felt like I was being laid off from a job.

As I mentioned, the expectation is for her husband to accept “who she is today”, yet who she was ten years ago had a more genuine desire for less established, but sexually arousing, lovers. I’m going to speculate here, but it’s likely that a man who owns multiple businesses spent more of his time diligently and (I presume) responsibly cultivating those enterprises than the men his wife took as lovers ten years ago. Again, we can see that as a moral virtue on his part, but there’s a root indignation of what her past represents within the context of his (I assume) responsible past.

And like a good business owner he plays the confrontation calmly and collectedly. The part of her that wishes he’d raised his voice is the same part that got excited by the Alpha indifference of her former lovers.

So that’s it. We are getting divorced. My supposed life-partner turning his back on me without a second thought. He didn’t even have the decency to discuss it with me first – apparently he visited his lawyer during the week and “the process is in motion” (his words). Knowing him, there is absolutely no changing his mind.

My husband owns multiple businesses and wouldn’t get married without a prenup. I signed it, honest-to-god thinking we’d never, EVER have to use it. Well, he had the fucking document with him this morning. He said he’d pay off the remainder of my student loans, which he isn’t “legally obligated” to do. While I appreciate that, I am going to meet with my lawyer this week and see if the agreement can be challenged in court. We have built a life together, I gave him 5 of the best years of my life and I’ve been 100% faithful to him – I don’t fucking deserve to be tossed out like a piece of trash.

So that’s it. My life turned upside-down in the span of a week, over something I did 10+ YEARS AGO BEFORE I EVEN KNEW HIM. It’s fucking asinine. The thing is, even as I wrote the original post, in the back of my mind I knew he was through with me. He’s ended friendships and business partnerships over less.

Ghosts of Epiphanies Past

In Preventive Medicine I go into a bit of detail about men in this increasingly common circumstance. There is a subconscious expectation on the part of Beta men who find themselves at or just past women’s Epiphany Phase, that predisposes them to believing that what they’ve become as a result of their perseverance throughout their 20’s has now come to fruition and the women who ignored them then have now matured to a point where he’s the ‘sexy’ one at last.

Unless men have a moment of clarity or a Red Pill initiation of their own prior to this, what they don’t accept is that this expectation is a calculated conditioning of the Feminine Imperative to prepare him for women like this; women who can no longer sexually compete for the Alpha Fucks they enjoyed in their Party Years. The Feminine Imperative teaches him that he can expect a woman’s “real” sexual best from the “real” her – why else would she agree to a lifelong marriage if he weren’t the optimal choice to settle down with? Why wouldn’t she be even more sexual than in her past with the man she’s chosen to spend her life with and have children with?

That is the message the Feminine Imperative used to subtly and indirectly imply to Betas-in-waiting. Now with the comfort of Open Hypergamy this message is published in best selling books by influential women:

“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead

Not to belabor Sandberg yet again (she has been hocking the tired out Choreplay meme recently), but this is essentially the outline of the script we’re reading in this woman’s lament. She’s essentially followed Sandberg’s advice only to find that her Beta-in-waiting bought into the same script too. The problem for her is that he took the “nothing’s sexier” part to heart only to find that someone else was sexier long before she’d convinced him otherwise.

For what it’s worth, fem-centrism has far less to fear from the manosphere revealing the ugly Red Pill truths about Hypergamy and more to worry about from pridefully self-indulgent women gleefully explaining it to the general populace themselves. Roosh had a tweet this week with what would likely have been the attitude of our subject wife ten odd years ago:

The more common Open Hypergamy becomes and the more proudly it’s embraced by the whole of women the less effective shaming men into acceptance of it will be. However, I thought it was entertaining when the counter-comments on Saving the Best questioned how common this situation really was or else thought it was trolling.

I think it’s much more prevalent than most men would like to admit. Perhaps not as dramatic as this example, but far more common for a majority of men who’ve tacitly accepted that the woman they married (or paired with) gave her best to her prior lovers and are too personally or family invested to extricate themselves from her after they’ve realized it. That investment necessitates them convincing themselves of the pre-planned memes the Feminine Imperative has prepared for them – that they are doing the right thing by forcing that dissonance out of their minds.

A lot of Betas-in-waiting like to claim a personal sense of vindication about their successfully pairing and breeding with women who they believe are (and were) their SMV evaluate equals once those women have “got it out of their system” with regards to self-discovery and Alpha indiscretions. In a sense they’re correct; often enough these are the men who gratefully embrace a woman’s intimate acceptance of him precisely at the point when his SMV has matured to match this woman’s declining SMV. I call this crossover the comparative SMV point in my SMV graph.

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Even women on the down-slide of their SMV like to encourage the idea that their post-Epiphany decision to marry the Plan B Beta provider (long term orbiter) is evidence of their newly self-discovered maturity. How could they have been so foolish and not seen how the perfect guy for her had been there all along? That consideration gratifies the ego of a Beta who’s been hammered flat by rejection or mediocre experiences with women up to that point.

The primary reason I spent the last year compiling Preventive Medicine was to help men see past the compartmentalization of women’s phases of maturity, but also to help them see past their own immediate interpretations of those phases as they’re experiencing them. Long term sexual and intimate deprivation (i.e. Thirst) will predispose men to convincing themselves of the part they believe they should play in the social conventions of the Feminine Imperative. Their own cognitive dissonance is a small, subliminal price to pay when they believe they’re finally being rewarded with a woman who’s now ready to give him her best.

What inspired me to this post was reading a cutesy photo-meme on Facebook. The syrupy message was “My only regret was not meeting you sooner so we could spend more of our lives together” superimposed over some kids in black & white holding a rose. Then it hit me, this was a message a guy was posting to his girlfriend; the one he’d met after his second divorce was finalized. What he didn’t want to think about was that if he’d met her sooner she’d have been too busy “discovering herself” to have anything to do with him.

508 comments

  1. I used to be like this. Years ago I had a girlfriend who moved to my city after meeting up with me on a vacation. We were hot and heavy for around a month or two…I did everything for her: helped her move, was attentive…the “perfect” boyfriend. Then one day in a conversation it emerged that when she went back from her vacation and began contemplating moving out to my city…she had gone back to her then boyfriend in her city.

    I was CRUSHED…she started rationalizing it saying things like: “i thought what we had then was just a fling…” and “I didn’t want to hurt his feelings…”

    Things have changed. I now bang girls who have boyfriends, some of whom I know and whom she introduces me to…One who’s now in my rotation is like this…hot and has a boyfriend. “Discretion is the key to valor” I tell her…she keeps her mouth shut lest she lose her “good thing”…

    Sounds mercenary to those people who don’t understand hypergamy and the Red Pill.

    This girl loves banging me…period. It’s a great arrangement for both of us…I never would have thought I would be ok with a girl—those special little snowflakes—being like “that”…

    When I read stories like your original post I seethe with a kind of rage….at the old me…then I long for that innocence of when I did believe girls were “special”…that feeling quickly passes as I then plan my weekend and realize how much happier I am now with the knowledge that I am the prize if I believe I am…

  2. Better late than never Rollo. I feel like I finally got to the 2nd level in the most exciting video game ever. I’ll call it: King of the clowns.

    Pre-order now and you’ll get free sweatbands for your pet hamster.

  3. Despite the increase in men aware of women’s sense of entitlement, there remain many who still don’t have a clue. Trying to warn them rarely works, and yet when the bomb gets dropped on them, they lament that no one warned them about this. This is the real issue, for women are not worth the effort to dominate them nor to change them. Save the men, and wave at the wome as you leave them behind.

  4. What inspired me to this post was reading a cutesy photo-meme on Facebook. The syrupy message was “My only regret was not meeting you sooner so we could spend more of our lives together” superimposed over some kids in black & white holding a rose. Then it hit me, this was a message a guy was posting to his girlfriend; the one he’d met after his second divorce was finalized. What he didn’t want to think about was that if he’d met her sooner she’d have been too busy “discovering herself” to have anything to do with him.

    Now that is how to close a post Rollo. I want to reiterate, by the way, my appreciation for your delving into the various “stages” of a woman’s life and what they can mean to men. It has been quite reaffirming to me. So thanks.

  5. Hah, all of this is kinda making me concerned about pursuing my goals as I am currently. Increasing my BB credentials too much. I’m trying to up the alpha as well, and it’s going great, but the motivation the RP has given me is settling a lot in low-hanging fruit and opportunities around me career-wise…

  6. @Forge the Sky

    Well too bad for those branch-monkeys.

    THIS prick’s got retractable pricks now.

  7. Not that I’m being self-righteous mind you. I’m just happy to serve them as I best know how. Hahaha.

  8. Rollo: this is not the first nor will it be the last time you hear this. I am forever in your debt for unpacking the baggage that is the feminine. Roosh, Chateau Heartise, and the very gifted commenters here, I thank you as well. I am changing for the better; I have placed my tent on this mountain.

  9. Notice how she responds to this with anger. She never loved him. She is running to the lawyers looking to get her piece of the Beta Bux. She never planned to honor the prenup, just like she never really committed to the marriage. It was just the next step in her life for herself.

  10. I need to work on minimizing my thirst; I’ve read your first book and know that abundance is a work in progress. In the meantime, how do I prevent this thirst from fooling me? As men, we have strong libidos and we must reconcile it with reality, so what do we do if we’re still a work-on-improving on our game in the meantime?

    Thanks for articles like this; it’s a great additional read (with a real example) from what you wrote in your book.

  11. RP truths just never get old…The FI has really made this racket effective, even when still plagued by blue pill thinking, perspective, I think many guys always have this thing in their subconscious that tells them ‘The Fuck!?’, that ‘splinter in your mind, driving you mad’. But like sensei said, the FI has fought too hard through media, education, government, social engineering to make sure that line of question is done away with by encouraging and bringing up White-knights (-hood, -ism) and captain save-a-hoe mentality on a global scale…May we continue to be edified.

    The bitch’s dissonance is even extending to challenging the pre-nup…as is expected.
    “5 best years of my life”…HA! Women do not have a fucking clue about manhood and what men go through.
    Kick. Fucking. Rocks.

  12. The Beta Bux chap in this scenario should scare the crap out of women everywhere. Guy sounds like a moderated, polite individual, no doubt solicitous to a fault.. As noted, he has built a very successful life for himself this way–giving others respect and expecting to receive it in kind. Were he to change his personality completely, he might get a little more play out of women, but at significant financial risk. Personal relationships are paramount in business if you want to raise capital for a new venture or acquire at a good price. The reliable, intelligent man with a proven track record is who companies and banks and investor pools want to do business with.

    When he gets over the hurt, he’ll be back on the sexual market in no time, and gals younger than her with lesser notch counts will be lining up for him. Even without the prenup, highish net worth men do not get divorce raped as often as the media portrays it. He can afford better lawyers than her.

    And next time he should hire a private detective first.

    /Actually, that’d be a good business to get into post-Sandburg. Investigating the pasts of Epiphany Phase lasses who discover they “only love you.” The Internet is forever.

  13. As for that neophyte on Twitter, Roosh screen munched…

    That should be a light-bulb moment for many a man, in or out of the matrix.

    To all men, observe. learn. adapt.

  14. I can’t tell if a woman hiding her sexual past post-epiphany is a con or cognitive dissonance or a bit of both. What it demonstrates is a (perhaps subconscious) acknowledgement that having an extensive list of sex partners is considered by most if not all “good” men to be a negative if not entirely disqualifying quality. Despite a feminist-led campaign to eliminate “slut shaming” women themselves seem to have continued the practice unabated – I find it hard to believe that women themselves don’t understand that calling another woman a slut isn’t intended to decrease her SMV at least relative to the accuser. I suppose it could be a willful suspension of disbelief early in a woman’s life which allows serial assignations and then perhaps she offers herself for commitment to an Alpha who rejects her in whole or in part due to her sexual past which then precipitates the epiphany phase and desperate search for a Beta provider to salvage the picket fence fantasy on the downslope.

    It’s also my perception that women aren’t very good judges of an Alpha’s level of commitment after the Rubicon of sex is crossed. They become invested in the idea that the sex will earn commitment whereas the opposite is more likely true to a point, so I can see how women who do have premarital sex (which is nearly all of them) wouldn’t be very good at pacing the frequency of their lovers where there are no dependable indicia of a man’s commitment to a relationship after sex. So perhaps a woman’s experience (with the exception of ONSs and Hotel bar romps) is one of serially offering sex hoping for commitment in return with men of progressively declining SMV until a combination of societal pressure to marry and the biological clock dictate that she must lower her expectations to extract the socially expressed standard form of commitment from a Beta.

  15. “Even without the prenup, highish net worth men do not get divorce raped as often as the media portrays it. He can afford better lawyers than her.”

    Actually a guy like this who is to one degree or another self-employed is going to be raked over the coals. For a guy who gets his W2 income from a single source in which he is not a shareholder/partner/officer/etc. child support and spousal maintenance (if applicable) is a relatively simple affair – most states have a “matrix” where income and number of kids converge and there isn’t much wiggle room in that. No doubt even on the low end the matrices tend to be overly generous to the custodial (read: woman) parent. Where these guys get screwed over is in the dissembling of the former spouse, provocative behavior of the former spouse and manipulation of the children, generating return trips to family court.

    Guys who are self-employed or, for example, partners in a law or medical practice have the ability to manipulate their income and assets, and the opposing lawyer (often paid for by the higher-earning male spouse) will have a go at giving the company/medical practice a proctological exam to find/manufacture “hidden” income and assets. Depending upon the length of a marriage the woman may be legally entitled to some share of the value of the company so aggressive litigation to overvalue the company (and thus the divorcing wife’s share to be paid to her) is inevitable. Perhaps the silver lining is that the overwhelming majority of lawyers who pursue family law aren’t the kinds of lawyers who understand how businesses work and operate, tax returns and the like, so there is a puncher’s chance that he’ll just have to endure manipulation of the children and screwing with the visitation/holiday schedule.

  16. Evidence that no amount shaming slut-shamers will ever eliminate the root cause: no man wants another man’s sloppy 56ths. The guy may not know the specifics of why (Alpha Widows that aren’t actually giving you their sexual best, higher likelihood of divorce, etc) but he doesn’t need to. Every guy knows instinctively it’s a bad idea to marry another man’s slut.

    Somewhat ironically, women know it as well. Even though my own mother kept telling me one day when I got in to my career and spent years being snubbed girls would finally notice me, she still recoiled in horror if she suspected a girl was a slut. She never once made the connection: if a girl has not married by 30, there’s a damn good reason. Often it’s that she was busy slutting it up.

    I always catch feminist friends showing their obvious anti-slut instincts, then point it out. We all instinctively disdain sluts in the long term. Once you understand the why, you suddenly can’t see any reason not to.

  17. @Rollo Tomassi writes:

    The primary reason I spent the last year compiling Preventive Medicine was to help men see past the compartmentalization of women’s phases of maturity, but also to help them see past their own immediate interpretations of those phases as they’re experiencing them. Long term sexual and intimate deprivation (i.e. Thirst) will predispose men to convincing themselves of the part they believe they should play in the social conventions of the Feminine Imperative. Their own cognitive dissonance is a small, subliminal price to pay when they believe they’re finally being rewarded with a woman who’s now ready to give him her best.

    Hey Rollo,

    I can’t thank you enough for the CLARITY in the way you’ve connected the dots in The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine

    Without these concepts you’ve enlightened us with during this past year, there is NO WAY I would be so far along in the recovery from the injuries/strokes caused by the hit and run accident.

    My memory of last year is limited, but I know that facing living in 24/7 stroke recovery inpatient care and the work it took to rebuild from the loss of normal abilities, loss of cognitive processing speed… loss of so many life elements we all take for granted and loss of the ability to do the work I love that I’ve spent a lifetime mastering–

    That was bad for sure, but I must have had a delusional belief that I would come back stronger than before.

    But, then, as you know,

    I Had Lost Frame in the Relationship.

    The emotional stress experienced when I Lost Frame would have completely devastated me.

    I would either be dead or still struggling in a 24/7 stroke recovery inpatient care situation, surrounded by all manner of people helping me learn to do the basics again.

    Instead, you had connected specific dots no one else has connected.

    You sacrificed time and put your whole soul into creating this material.

    “Sam Botta is a little off base, in his tl:dr comment about Rollo’s work, heh, heh,” says the unimaginative.

    Open your mind just enough to let me, gently, remind you that worldwide brands you’re aware of insist that this one man (Rollo Tomassi) be the ONLY person they trust to design their brands.

    That only partially explains why he has ownership in many of those worldwide brands he’s created art for.

    So…

    As an artist,

    Rollo Tomassi is above the level of a John Williams or Hans Zimmer.

    His art is beyond the creations of Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo & (you fill in the blanks) ______, ______, ________ & ________ _______

    His art is music creation and performance.

    His art is brand design conceptualizing and creation.

    His art is creating with exacting dimension and vivid detail.

    His art is being able to see through to connect dots no one else has.

    His art is this writing that’s literally saving lives (from early death).

    All art creation at his level is soul deep.

    If you’ve been around some greatest art creators and performers alive on earth while they are creating art, you would catch a glimpse of…

    the unspeakable elements and forces

    that call into existence the kind of art creation…

    that has made these masterpiece essays, and now, “The Rational Male” books.

    It’s a mesmerizing thing for the artist,

    it’s an investment of tapping into ones deepest soul…

    and that is exhausting.

    But Rollo made these sacrifices for you and me and every person that has the will to bring the most important changes in world events.

    It’s comforting to read and understand these truths, to feel validation of what you knew inside but couldn’t explain.

    The experience of knowing we are not alone in what we’ve experienced brings a kind of peace.

    But I am writing here as someone that went from the picture of building to healthy fitness & unusual success in my art… to stroke survivor from a hit & run accident in a live-in 24/7 stroke recovery inpatient care program… and a devastated man that had lost frame in a relationship.

    This isn’t just another blog in the ‘sphere,

    this is the “David” …
    this is the “Sistine Chapel” …
    this is the invention of the jet engine
    Rollo Tomassi is Nikola Tesla + Mr. Miyagi + Michelangelo + Elon Musk + Richard Branson + Benjamin Franklin + Titan + (you fill in the blanks) ______ + ______ + ______ and _______ with the physique of the “David”

    And yes, physique DOES MATTER when you’re the man that writes essays and books titled “The Rational Male” — to not do the work to build the physique (if you can move your limbs) is to be constantly irrational.

    To look at each of “The Rational Male” books as a gold bar is to grossly underestimate them. Still these books are LIFE investments in yourself and in each person you purchase a copy for.

    How many gold bars (“The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine” paperback versions) are you going to order?

  18. The Beta Bux chap in this scenario should scare the crap out of women everywhere.

    Only if he wins the pre-nup challenge and is able to walk away on his terms. Otherwise, she wins. Outcome still pending.

  19. The men that truly “scare the crap out of women everywhere” are the ones that, when push comes to shove, are willing to burn everything to the ground and spend years in prison (or go on the lam) in order to keep the bitch from getting anything… including another breath of oxygen.

    Then again, those men generally are getting the hotter sex for free (or less), and don’t need to be the Beta Bux type.

    Stella!!!

  20. I have my suspicions that more and more men will go MGTOW as hypergamy becomes more and more open.

    On the flip side, open hypergamy ultimately leads to the end of feminism.

  21. “The men that truly “scare the crap out of women everywhere” are the ones that, when push comes to shove, are willing to burn everything to the ground and spend years in prison (or go on the lam) in order to keep the bitch from getting anything… including another breath of oxygen.”

    Yes – the infamous case of H. Beatty Chadwick:

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=8101209

  22. ‘Notice how she responds to this with anger. She never loved him. She is running to the lawyers looking to get her piece of the Beta Bux. She never planned to honor the prenup, just like she never really committed to the marriage. It was just the next step in her life for herself.”

    I guarantee that this woman in her Epiphany phase was telling everyone of her friends and elders that going into her marriage that any woman should be happy with any beta male out there that would provide for her. And that she should “never walk away from him”. Such was her ego investment. She lied about her Alpha widow status. He wanted her at the time.

    But he kept his Alpha frame in the end –in light of her investment in him as a Beta provisioner. He kept frame after he became aware. He was acutely aware of her Alpha Widow status in the end.

    Men have to realize how the Epiphany phase works. She is in denial. She settled. He settled. Then he became aware.

    Rollo’s second book is titled Preventive Medicine for a reason.

    I’m convinced that with a red pill frame a man can still overcome an Alpha Widow’s frame.

    @Rollo “H/T to TRP Alpha Idealism: ‘I’m worth too much to settle for anything less than what I want in a woman.’”

  23. “On the flip side, open hypergamy ultimately leads to the end of feminism.”

    To the extent that feminism isn’t disguised lesbian recruitment (look it up – Stacy McCain has collated the source material) the thinly veiled goal of feminism is open hypergamy and resource extraction to subsidize it. And it won’t matter if you go your own way, you’ll still get the tax bill for it. (both directly on your 1040 and indirectly when, for example, your company has to pay for you as a man to have birth control coverage or it gets Lilly Ledbettered into diverting more of its payroll expense to pay the salaries of sub-par female employees in lieu of your performance based raises).

  24. Perhaps the silver lining is that the overwhelming majority of lawyers who pursue family law aren’t the kinds of lawyers who understand how businesses work and operate, tax returns and the like, so there is a puncher’s chance that he’ll just have to endure manipulation of the children and screwing with the visitation/holiday schedule.

    He owned several businesses. I’ve checked two posts, seen no sign of any children. He’ll be fine.

    /Disclaimer: Personal experience. We were not in a community property state, and I did just leave rather than play along. My ex, to protect her government pension/retirement accounts, did the phony DV crap. I’ll always test positive for TB as a result, but she eventually ended up with nothing, a record as a vexatious litigant, and no claim on future asset sales, which… given how things have gone in my profession lately, was not really the wisest course.

  25. The original story by the woman in a post in r/relationships at Reddit has been deleted. Here is the original post from the woman name “husbandhatesme”.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    My husband [M34] of 2 years found out some unsavory details about my [F31] past, and I’m scared it could lead to divorce.

    I’ll try and keep this short. We’ve known each other 5 years, been married for 2 years, and up until last weekend things were perfectly fine. Maybe once in a while we’d bicker about money or something, but 99% of the time we were happy together.

    While out last weekend for a friends birthday, a(now ex) friend of mine told my husband about a relationship I had in college. My husband knew about my college boyfriend, but obviously I didn’t share intimate details about our sex life. Well…..it came out that I used to engage in threesomes with him and his male roommate. Probably 12-15 in total, but all my husband knows is that it was ‘more than once’.

    College was a totally different time in my life. I was drinking every weekend, doing recreational drugs every month, partying, having casual flings – just like everyone else at that age. It was a hedonistic “live for today” lifestyle that I thankfully grew out of. I look back on those years with a lot of regrets, and not just about my sex life. I mean, it was 10+ years ago. I’m a totally different person now.

    Regardless, I know my husband sees me in a totally different light. He hasn’t slept in our bed since he found out, and he’s barely spoken to me all week. I’m so scared he’ll divorce me, I’m walking on eggshells just trying to stay out of his way while he works through this. I really want to sit him down and clear the air. I just don’t know where to begin…I feel like one slip of the tongue and our relationship could be completely over.

    I know I’m not a good person for keeping this from him, so please don’t lecture me. It was a chapter of my life I’d thought I’d closed for good. It was my ONE secret, and I honestly debated telling him about it but came to the conclusion that no positive outcome could come from it.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – — – – – – – – –

  26. Unless I missed something I think it’s funny that she never really expresses any sadness or regret for losing him. She doesn’t show any hurt or emotional loss. She just kind of dives right into the logistics of lawyers, pre-nups, compensation, student loans that he is so generously paying for her (Not good enough!). So revealing. Young bucks out there, you have been very fairly warned.

    Rollo,

    I finished the book and stand amazed, once again. I echo all the gratitude from some other posters. I hope you really understand how valuable your efforts have been for all of us.

  27. Another tell is her writing that she’d been “100% faithful to him” for a short five years as if a) there is a percent of faithfulness less than 100% and b) it was an accomplishment and not the requisite minimum expected from promised by her at the time of marriage.

    I tweeted to RT a recommendation of the PBS “Independent Lens” documentary “Little White Lie” which premiered last night and can be viewed online. It’s funny how the RP is a Rosetta Stone that unlocks the truth of female behavior that you wouldn’t be able to process without it.

    The documentary is filmed and narrated by presumptively only child Lacey Schwartz, an obviously mixed race woman easily perceived by disinterested observers as having a good measure of African blood. The story unfolds first as a comment on her Jewish religion and heritage, and tracing her mother and putative father’s meeting and early relationship, including her mother’s explanation that she married “daddy” because he was a nice (white) Jewish guy and that was the default script that her life was supposed to follow. Various pictures and family films are woven into the documentary showing family life and the milestones in a young Jewish girl’s life where it is clear that Lacey appears black, juxtaposed with present day interviews of family and friends where it is revealed that the family myth is that Lacey resembled her father’s darker skinned and curly haired Sicilian grandfather. The credulity of these people being interviewed is simply amazing. As it turns out, and upon insistent questioning by Lacey her mother reveals that she is actually the product of a long term affair between her mother and “Rodney” a black man whom she had met prior to her marriage to Lacey’s putative father. (N.B. Rodney fathered at least seven children by multiple women.) Mother reveals that her relationship with Rodney was “extremely sexual.” Asked by Lacey why her mother married a Jewish accountant (the relationship with whom was impliedly not “extremely sexual) rather than pursuing a relationship with Rodney, mother reveals that the former was “funny, smart and provided a good income” and that she might have been able to keep her secret had she engaged in an affair with a white man.

    The explicit angle the documentary is exploring is race – both the documentarian’s own race and the reaction to it by her family and friends as she grows up and identifies as black, culminating in confirmation that she is the daughter of a black father rather than an atavistic dark skinned Sicilian. But central to the narrative – perhaps without meaning to be – is her mother’s expression of hypergamy in all of those choices made during her life, first seeking an “extremely sexual” relationship with “Rodney” while marrying a good provider whom she cuckolds and deceives into raising one of Rodney’s seven children.

    It’s available for viewing online and I highly recommend viewing it from a Red Pill perspective. The audacity of the mother in successfully pulling off what I can only describe as a mass hallucination is a thing to behold.

  28. @swiftfoxmark2

    More and more men are going MGTOW as hypergamy becomes more and more open.

    FTFY.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/12/04/the-sexodus-part-1-the-men-giving-up-on-women-and-checking-out-of-society/

    Most guys’ reaction to just a taste of Red Pill truth is to pretty much say “Well shit, I’ve wasted all this time and all that’s left are used up fat chicks, single moms, and psychos. I’m out.” Several of my good personal friends have already gone that route. It’s incredibly common already among guys in their 30s and single. It’s not going to happen, it’s already happening.

    @OP

    Thanks. Think I’ll take my own shot at translating this…

    Probably 12-15 in total, but all my husband knows is that it was ‘more than once’.

    “He’s got part of the truth, but I’ll be damned if I’m giving him the whole truth. I’d look like I enjoyed it and lose plausible deniability!”

    College was a totally different time in my life… I’m a totally different person now.

    “I mean, it’s not like my past is a part of who I actually am, right? None of that shit affected me in anyway, so everyone should just pretend it happened to somebody else!”

    while he works through this.

    “Because it’s HIS problem, not mine.”

    I really want to sit him down and clear the air.

    “I really hope I can reestablish my frame over this Beta schlub so I don’t lose the provisioning I settled on. I damn sure don’t care about his feelings though, just my provisioning and feelings.”

    I just don’t know where to begin…I feel like one slip of the tongue and our relationship could be completely over.

    “You know, because a slip like my sordid past I lied about coming out shouldn’t be enough on its own.”

    I know I’m not a good person for keeping this from him, so please don’t lecture me

    “Instead I need you to validate my feelings and help me feel like a good person again.”

    By the way, contrast this with her later poast:

    His view of me has been irreparably changed and he no longer sees me “as someone worthy of being [his] wife”. (quoting him here… fucking prick)

    My life turned upside-down in the span of a week, over something I did 10+ YEARS AGO BEFORE I EVEN KNEW HIM. It’s fucking asinine.

    He’s ended friendships and business partnerships over less.

    Yeah, she’s totally understanding and he’s totally such an asshole. Yet after all of her acting incredulous and shocked, she says this:

    It was my ONE secret, and I honestly debated telling him about it but came to the conclusion that no positive outcome could come from it.

    “I really really really want to escape from my past, even though I wouldn’t let any man escape from his. Instead I’ll just lie behind the pretext of twu evewasting wuv

  29. Honestly the funny part in all this is that the only thing keeping the vast majority of men engaged with society is the promise of pussy. Open Hypergamy is making it clear that promise is composed of 100% Grade A Prime Horseshit.

    There is no dispensary where “The One” is waiting for the moment in your life when you’re ready for her. There’s just a bunch of used up sluts sighing, looking the other way, and extending her hand to him saying “Fine. If I have to…”

    Most guys simply can’t handle it, and I get it. It really does look hopeless. Even when I try to give them just little pieces of what I’ve learned here, the Blue Pill steps in to tell them that not only is the problem within themselves, but there’s no hope of fixing it. If they did it wouldn’t be genuine. They wouldn’t Just Be Themselves. It would be deceitful to women.

    Even as they realize women were actually shitting on them their whole lives; It wasn’t imagined, they were actually being actively scorned and snubbed for following the script women told them to follow. Even realizing that truth, they still won’t try to take a different path because of Blue Pill programming that protects women from anything that asserts male sexual strategies.

    But if they all disengage from society, society slowly crumbles. It doesn’t crash. It doesn’t do anything that dramatic. It just slowly fades and crumbles. It’s much sadder and more melancholic than a sudden revolt. It doesn’t go out with a bang. It goes out with a hunchbacked sigh, a shrug, and the depressed shuffling of downtrodden feet.

  30. ” but obviously I didn’t share intimate details about our sex life”

    Guys : pay attention to the word OBVIOUSLY as if she’s talking to Sheryl Sandberg,

    “I’m not a good person for keeping this from him” .

    Listen to the manipulation , you deliberately hid that from him or to any any other Beta $$ you wanted to marry.

    “so please don’t lecture me”. (don’t cast the first stone, ya know).

    “It was a chapter of my life I’d thought I’d closed for good. It was my ONE secret,”

    Chapter of my life = 2 different taste of come.
    One secret!! It was a fucking Pandora’s box.

    “and I honestly debated telling him about it”
    (but I didn’t because I wanted him to marry me) but came to the conclusion that no positive outcome could come from it.(he would’ve never married me) .

  31. @Alec

    I actually caught that show tonight. I just returned from a conference in San Francisco, where I prided myself in not watching television but had to decompress from the plane ride home and springing three hours forward.
    The show followed a sob story about anecdotal “immunization” Frontline on PBS that showed that immunizations had nothing to do with autism. But individual “feelings” like those of Jenny McCarthy have a way of being solipsistic. E.G. “As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one’s own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.”

    I would actually not recommend the waste of time watching that program. It was so predictable in light of the rational male with the added insult of watching the race card put in play beyond the the Jewish card. Just a little two indulgent for me. I am race neutral. Show me the content of your character and I can judge you just fine. I’m glad to sacrifice my time to say it sucked and it was nothing more than a drive by travesty.

    Better to follow men’s tales than solipsistic female tales.

  32. Thanks to a site like this that solved 8000 years of confusion.
    In the cradle of civilization (mess opotamia) women weren’t allowed to be a witness because no sane jury would by the crap that comes out of their ass,I mean mouth.

  33. “I would actually not recommend the waste of time watching that program. It was so predictable in light of the rational male with the added insult of watching the race card put in play beyond the the Jewish card. Just a little two indulgent for me. I am race neutral. Show me the content of your character and I can judge you just fine. I’m glad to sacrifice my time to say it sucked and it was nothing more than a drive by travesty.”

    I get that reaction entirely – it seemed like the unstated conclusion we were to draw was that mom was supposed to fight the racism of the 1970s and societal expectations and run to the inner city to live happily ever after with Rodney. That the whole situation was the fault of all of the white racists in mom’s family and wider society. That seemed preachy and manipulative but we’re probably all used to that.

    The value in it for me was seeing all of the Red Pill truths unintentionally laid bare together with the mother’s abject lack of remorse or empathy for the man she cuckolded and humiliated for decades – even if he was credulous enough to believe that this black child was his biological daughter. You just don’t see the whole arc of the FI shown honestly in an hour program – it was perhaps the fact that the stock culprit was supposed racism that allowed the story to be told so openly and honestly.

  34. “The value in it for me was seeing all of the Red Pill truths unintentionally laid bare together with the mother’s abject lack of remorse or empathy for the man she cuckolded and humiliated for decades – even if he was credulous enough to believe that this black child was his biological daughter. You just don’t see the whole arc of the FI shown honestly in an hour program – it was perhaps the fact that the stock culprit was supposed racism that allowed the story to be told so openly and honestly”

    Totally agree Alec. I value seeing it red pill truths. But it was so sad that I as red pill felt it was preaching to the choir.

    I appreciate your commentary.

  35. Female. Over 30. Currently seeing someone who is into RP. Recently discovered your blog and have read all I could get my hands on. While I agree with some of what you teach/ preach I have a real issue with the hypocrisy of this post. You advise men to spin plates, don’t commit and use women for sex for as long as possible while at the same time hold those women accountable for this. You’re telling the men how to be the alpha fucks that are going to get laid by women then call those same women not worthy of marriage later in their lives. Is a woman supposed to rebut all the alpha advances and not sleep with people? Doesn’t that just mean you would next her? Aren’t you telling guys to not get married until later in life if at all? I don’t understand. It’s your teachings in part that are responsible for these women’s partner count. Unless you’re advocating for 35 year olds to pick a 18 year old virgin to marry, what woman is worthy? Because if a mans route to commitment is through spinning plates and not insisting on monogamy then a women will sleep with other men. It goes both ways. The double standards are are incredible. It’s almost as though you’re teaching men to ‘not belong up any club that will have them as a member’. What’s the solution here?

  36. My mother was probably an 8 back in her day. 5’8″ brunette with hazel eyes and a state swimmer body. Dudes apparently fell all over each other to date her. Apparently did remain a virgin until she married at 21 even.

    My extremely Beta emasculated pussy of a stepfather married her at just past 50 thinking he had lucked out by finally snagging one of the girls who was so hot when he was younger. This dude couldn’t be more soaked in Blue Pill. My mother sat in front of me happily prattling along about how he was such a “Beta male” (her exact words) and he had done so well in getting her with him right there. He just nodded his half bald head dutifully grinning like a goofy dipshit bobblehead as I sat there in disbelief that a guy was proud of his emasculation.

    She’s been overweight with frizzy curly hair that goes every which way on her head since she was in her mid 30s. She nags and attacks my stepfather so badly that I have confronted her on multiple occasions about it. She gives the appearance of being an interesting, intelligent, wonderful woman to everyone that’s not family by never fighting with people outside the family. After each avoided confrontation though, without fail she attacks someone in the family (most often him, since I’ve since told her I will not stand for it) since they’re a captive audience. She’s done this since I was a child, going so far as to physically and psychologically abuse me in response to external pressures.

    This Beta thinks he finally got his reward in his 50s and can’t even see what a horrendous person she is. I have seen the ultimate end game of the whole dynamic with my own eyes, and it’s horrendous to behold. Do not let yourself become him, fellas. AWALT, even your own mother.

  37. @Newgal

    The double standards are are incredible.

    There are two standards because there are two totally different dynamics. A man can only spin plates by working at his Game, looks, social skills, job, confidence, and basically everything that makes him a man. If he can spin plates, it’s a sign he actually has done the work to become high quality. A man doesn’t have to conceal his sexual past because it’s proof of his value.

    A woman can spin plates by saying “yes”. No work. No value needed. Just lower standards to her own attractiveness instead of 2 points above, say “yes”, and spread her legs.

    There’s a double standard for a reason, sweetheart.

    Unless you’re advocating for 35 year olds to pick a 18 year old virgin to marry, what woman is worthy?

    Awwww, somebody’s upset she’s past the Wall and out of the game.

  38. Newgal

    Tell us how you feel about yourself and what you bring to your man. How are you his prize? How do you bring to him a virtue if you lock him down.

    You do realize the conundrum of being over thirty and having had your alpha quotient? And now you want to be provided for?

    The last 15 years have degraded the experience that a 30 year old professional male would have with a female ( acquaintances of mine).

    When we got married, it was a different time.

    It does not behoove a male to get married today unless he can lock down a good female early in her career.

    Do you say otherwise?

    “The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies:
    For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.”

  39. I suppose the equivalent would be if, after marriage, it transpired that the guy she married was not the wealthy individual she had assumed him to be but an undischarged bankrupt – but it was learning experience for him, had made him what he is but broke.

    One must always surely be wary of any woman past a certain age who is marrying for the first time, but exactly what that age is might be considerably younger than one might suppose.

  40. Women only want what I like to call “selective equality”. They want to keep all of their benefits of the past while taking on new benefits of a man (minus the responsibility or accountability).

    All adults (if they’re adults) have choices to make and there are consequences for some of those choices.

    Men who decide on careers that are not considered high value (status, money or both) are looked down on by women. Women will never say this out loud in public because it’s not the acceptable thing to say in society (it makes her look bad; she’ll be labeled the gold digger). But aren’t they all?

    Women who decide to ride the cock carousel to “discover herself” are looked down on by men. She might find a man of lower value but women know that if a high value man finds out about her past then she knows that a divorce is on the way.

    Women want to avoid consequences, period. They want to make a choice (i.e. threesome) and if the man (husband) finds out (dumps her for it) then it’s considered wrong (because he should be a strong “real” man). She knew from square one that any decent man (especially a high value man) would not stand for it…that’s why she hid it from him.

    Women truly want the best of both worlds (not equality).

  41. @Newgal

    Men aren’t the ones promoting dating (sleeping) around with many men (that was feminism looking for equality and Sheryl Sandberg selling books to women) – but nice try on the shaming (blaming). Spinning plates and Game are the direct results of the current environment (thanks to feminism).

    Women want it all (but only the good stuff) – the high paying jobs, the freedom to sleep around with many men, etc…but only the benefits (no accountability). They want selective equality (they still love it when men pay for dinner) and don’t want to be called out for their behavior (even when it’s obviously bad behavior).

    The woman in the story mentioned in the article hid the fact that she had multiple threesomes (from her high valued husband) because inside she knew that it wouldn’t be accepted (by his standards). A lower valued man wouldn’t have cared but then she wouldn’t have been with a lower valued man – there is nothing to gain from it.

    A woman has standards and men are supposed to just accept it – be “real men” or man up and take responsibility.

    These are the ugly truths that women don’t want men (and society) to find out.

  42. The guy in this scenario doesn’t seem beta to me at all. I mean, he did misjudge her initially, but now that he’s found out the true quality of the woman he picked to be his wife, he gets rid of her without any drama and has a prenup to limit his losses to boot. But she made the worse misjudgment: She thought the guy was beta enough to swallow the harsh truth about her if it ever would become known to him, instead he nexts her like a boss.
    Not all alphas are bad boys, not all bad boys are alphas.

  43. I really enjoyed this post. One of the very best. Its very interesting to see that the Alpha dude or dudes are rarely or remotely mentioned in the comments section of her “confession”. They remain anonymous and insulated yet the Beta husband is given a lashing for going through with the divorce.
    So society frowns upon the Beta. Actually in a sense the Alphas are defended as one commentator states and I quote “If he is so foolish to leave his WIFE for something that happened years before you guys met which wasn’t his business anyways, then you are better off without him”.

    There you have it. Society respects the privacy of the Alpha and encourages his plate count as Sheryl Sandberg writes ” date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys”. So to all Betas out there. Don’t be afraid to go Alpha. Its socially accepted.

  44. This is why I refuse to get married to a woman in this country(Australia). I’m not the most handsome man in the world–I’m short and balding, but I have a decent looking face–and I don’t have a great ‘career’, yet I own my own house, have decent savings(including retirement), and have a great inheritance to look forward to. Why the hell would I jeopardize all of that to get substandard, old, worn out pussy?

    I can still attract women who are younger than myself because I have a youngish looking face(I’m 36), but I have no interest in them anymore, not even as a pump and dump. She would have to be exceptional for me to bother with her nowadays. The last woman I went on dates with was a 26 year old Vietnamese woman who moved here 8 years ago. I didn’t go for the quick bang because she wasn’t that kind of girl–she was looking for a relationship–but it was the closest I came to reconsidering my position on the opposite sex.

    I refuse to be a beta chump. I’d rather be celibate.

  45. Notice how she responds to this with anger. She never loved him.

    This is exactly what I was thinking. If she loved him, she would be utterly devastated about this.

  46. “I suppose the equivalent would be if, after marriage, it transpired that the guy she married was not the wealthy individual she had assumed him to be but an undischarged bankrupt – but it was learning experience for him, had made him what he is but broke.”
    ______________________

    Outstanding take. And you know that it is wholly socially acceptable for her to announce that she’s divorcing him because he deceived her about his income and net worth even if they never had an explicit conversation about the extent of his income assets and expenses. And no one would shed a tear for him or chastise her for heartlessness and gold digging.

  47. @Willy Wonker

    So society frowns upon the Beta.

    You are addressing a topic I find most disturbing and hard to handle with in all the Red Pill Truth.

    Don’ get me wrong: I am grateful for the insights Red Pill Manosphere has provided about the true nature of women, their sexual strategies and their convenient lies.

    But what I always found most repulsive is that there obvisiouly is a secret and well concealed coalition between Alphas and the Female Imperative.

    Both shit on and mock Beta Males although these are the people who built civilization and from whom they benefit at the end.

    There is no day I can’t read something on Roissy’s Chateau where he would not pick at Betas, ridicule and belittle them, where his commenters wouldn’t refer to betas as weaklings, stupids, who just din’t get it, or sth similar.

    This amount of contempt and mockery makes me sick.

    It leads to the conclusion that – just as women and men are different and competing species – we also have to see that Alphas and Betas are two different species of men, which have nothing in common and oppose each other. This also leads to the common apex fallacy of women’s blaming beta men for what alphas stand for, @Newgals’s lament about “double standards” is a blatant example for that.

    It was Beta Male who built the civilization with effort, with intelligence and innovation, with blood, sweat and tears. Too much Alphas have only one mastery in exploiting the resources of Betas by deception and brute force.

    Both women and Alphas share their fair amount by intentionally ignoring and playing down that fact.

    There is war between Alphas and Betas. Going on since ever in humanity. And Alphas would have prevailed by their natural means if Betas would not have gathered and restricted them by means of civilization such as technical inventions and written rules of law.

  48. How to expose hypocrisy in women.

    Woman: Judging someone because of their past is wrong!

    Man: Really? Glad you said that because in college I hooked up with gay guys, you know, just to experiment.

    Woman: OMG! Don’t touch me!!! I can never think of you the same again!!

    This hypocrisy can be seen on OKCupid, where women will proudly proclaim they’ve been with women, but check the box that says they’ll reject a guy who has been with guys. They need to realize that them being with a lot of guys holds about as much appeal as us being with guys. If they think of it that way, maybe they’ll know how we feel about wife-ing up the threesome crowd.

  49. @ newgal:

    “Female. Over 30. Currently seeing someone who is into RP. Recently discovered your blog and have read all I could get my hands on. While I agree with some of what you teach/ preach I have a real issue with the hypocrisy of this post. You advise men to spin plates, don’t commit and use women for sex for as long as possible while at the same time hold those women accountable for this.”

    Men are responsible for their sexual strategies and the consequences that flow from it. Women are responsible for their own sexual strategies and their consequences. Men are NOT responsible for women’s responses to men’s sexual strategies. Women are fully and solely responsible for their conduct, including how they respond and react to men’s sexual advances and conduct.

    “You’re telling the men how to be the alpha fucks that are going to get laid by women then call those same women not worthy of marriage later in their lives. Is a woman supposed to rebut all the alpha advances and not sleep with people?”

    Yes.

    “Doesn’t that just mean you would next her?”

    Yes, sexually attractive men will next her. Your protests here are really just a claim of entitlement to commitment from the sexually attractive man; and a demand that the sexually attractive man compromise his sexual interests to fulfill your sexual interests. Women are NOT entitled to ANYTHING from any man.

    http://www.justfourguys.com/youre-not-entitled-and-its-not-fair/

    “Aren’t you telling guys to not get married until later in life if at all? I don’t understand. It’s your teachings in part that are responsible for these women’s partner count.”

    No. Women’s responses to men’s sexual advances are FULLY and SOLELY responsible for women’s partner count. Women are 100% responsible for their own partner counts.

    “Unless you’re advocating for 35 year olds to pick a 18 year old virgin to marry, what woman is worthy?”

    There aren’t many. Perhaps 5 to 10% are “worthy” of marriage/commitment.

    “Because if a mans route to commitment is through spinning plates and not insisting on monogamy then a women will sleep with other men.”

    No. A woman has full moral agency in her choice of sex partners. She sleeps with other men because that’s what she chooses, and for no other reason. A man’s spinning plates and not insisting on monogamy has nothing to do with her choice to sleep with a lot of men. A woman sleeps with a lot of men because that’s what she wants to do. A man’s exercising sexual options does not force a woman into anything.

    The solution here is very simple, Newgal: If you don’t want to sleep with players, then don’t sleep with players. And take responsibility for your own sexual choices. And don’t try to foist them off on attractive men.

    “The double standards are are incredible.”

    See Sun Wukong’s response above. There are no double standards here, only different standards for differently situated people.

    “What’s the solution here?”

    You take responsibility for your own sexual decisions, and don’t foist your own decisions and the consequences for those decisions onto other people.

  50. newgal:

    https://alphaisassumed.wordpress.com/2014/09/20/she-does-what-she-wants-guest-post-by-deti/

    “It’s not her lack of self esteem. Her friends are not requiring her to have sex. Nor is any good looking player forcing her into that bedroom. She could have chosen any number of other things to boost her self-worth and self regard. She chose sex and sexual validation. That’s her choice and her decision to make; she is free to make it; and no one can stop her from making it.

    “Her having sex with a guy who “done her dirty” was not a “mistake”. It was a judgment call, a choice, a decision; the responsibility for which is fully hers and hers alone.

    “She can’t blame the charming cad or the good looking player. Ultimately, she made the decision to sleep with the man. Her body, her choice. In the final analysis, she’s the sex gatekeeper. When it’s all said and done, her decision to sleep with the player is on HER, not him.

    “She is single not because there are no good, available, marriageable men. She is single because she doesn’t want to marry any of the available marriageable men, isn’t attracted to such men. She is single because she prefers that to marriage to any man other than a top man. Or, she is single because she had a good man and (70 to 80% chance) chose to end the marriage or forced an end to it. It is only when her options starkly disappear that she will change her heart and mind

    “So when she tells you her sexual history, lays it out for you, and then ratchets up the excuse machine, remember that she’s not a victim of circumstance. Things worked out the way they did because of HER choices. Her past is what it is because of her decisions. She had sex with each of those prior men because she wanted to. She had sex
    with them because she made the decision, made the choice, to have sex with them. She isn’t married because that’s the life she has chosen for herself.

    “She made the choice to get drunk, to get high, to party. She made the choice to use her sexual power to serve her own purposes: to boost her self-esteem, for validation, for affirmation, for a sense of belonging. She could have chosen other things to elevate her own self-regard and worth. She didn’t. She chose sex.

    “She made the choice to have sex with the top men instead of pursuing commitment from a good man. She could have chosen to hold out for marriage. She didn’t. She preferred sex with a top man now over commitment from a more stable, more attainable man later.

    “No one made those choices for her. She, and she alone, made them. The decisions, and the consequences that flow from them, are on her.

    “Her life turned out the way it did because she chose it.”

  51. Its a simple conflict of advertising.

    In the ‘Carousel’ phase-and indeed nearly all the time far as I can tell- a woman is in a constant state of dual marketing. All women to some extent present the impression of high value, prudish girls (I’ve only been with three guys honest!) while actually being expert sexual beings. Its no different then a used car lot rolling back the odometer.

    Experienced men don’t buy the advertising , while the betas do. The resentment has much in common with discovering the shiny car in your driveway was a flood salvage title misrepresented by the dealer.

  52. Psychology of Love, John Alan Lee.

    PRAGMA is a utilitarian love concerned with a sensible match that will effectively meet the social and emotion needs of each partner.

    Eros is passionate love. Erotic lovers seek intimate sexual and emotional involvement.

    Ludus is flirtatious; love is a game. Ludus lovers avoid commitment or self-disclosure.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_styles

    Couples: Scenes from the Inside, Sally Cline

    “While the need for basic human attachment and intimacy must still be satisfied, we now privately choose the specific “love styles” with which we gratify those needs.

    New dyadic relationships are measured not by their capacity to foster traditional virtues such as courage or self-sacrifice, but solely by their capacity to satisfy what the self views as its needs. All externally based criteria for what is needed, or for what might constitute satisfaction, are banished; all standards become radically subjective.

    The openness, emotional intensity, and relative brevity of courtship are the very traits that make it superior to marriage as an expression of, and as a way of understanding, relationships. Consequently, romantic relationships replace marriage as life’s main arena for the discovery of personal meaning.”

    What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

  53. Ladies:

    If you want to sleep with players and avoid commitment from nonplayers (and by all indications, around 90%+ of you clearly display your intentions to do exactly that), then accept the natural consequences of your decisions.

    1. Your marriage choices will be severely restricted. You’ll be limited to men who are willing to marry sluts – mostly unattractive, low value men. And you’ll probably have to lie through your teeth to persuade a man to marry you.

    2. You’ll be miserably unhappy in your marriages. You’ll be unwilling to bond to your husband, unable to bond to him, or both. You’ll end up hating and resenting him.

    3. You’ll be significantly less fertile.

    4. Your chances of divorce will skyrocket. Your chances of remarriage following divorce and one or two kids will plummet.

  54. One last thing and then I’ll leave this.

    Note that the husband’s disgust is not so much over her past sexploits.
    It’s about the lying.

    She was fundamentally dishonest about a material, foundational aspect of the relationship. She defrauded him. She was disloyal to him. She showed her first loyalties are to herself, not to him. This is not about her fucking other guys. This is about her lying about it, which is elemental lack of character.

    As a result, he can no longer trust her. If she has lied about this, what else has she lied about? What other revelations are going to come out? A man MUST be able to trust the person who shares his bed, his bank accounts, his thoughts, his fears. He MUST be able to trust a woman who has that kind of access to him, who is that close to him. If he cannot trust her to be honest

    Since he’s now discovered the truth (or at least this aspect of the truth — no woman does “just one” threesome in college), he has only a couple of options in dealing with an untrustworthy, disloyal, liar of a spouse. His options are (1) divorce, or (2) hardcore dread for the rest of the marriage. He wisely chose divorce.

    The problem here is not the sex. It’s the fraud, the subterfuge, the deception. The entry into marriage on false pretenses. Her intentional, fraudulent misrepresentation that she was something she was not. Her intentional attempts to keep from him a material fact about her past. (Hell, some churches might give him an annulment.)

  55. @Stingray, you wrote: “Notice how she responds to this with anger. She never loved him. This is exactly what I was thinking. If she loved him, she would be utterly devastated about this.”

    If you look at her post, she is setting up buffers to her devastation using anger. She WANTED him to respond to her with anger – if he had done so, she would have felt justified in her rage against him. If he had yelled at her, verbally “abused” her, hit her – she could feel some legitimate anger toward him – shift some of the blame to him. But as it is, with his calm and measured response, she is unable to generate BLAME to him. She can only blame herself for the destruction of her marriage, and that is more intolerable to her than the destruction itself. Her anger is her buffer against her self-blame.

  56. LOL @Newgal

    Coming into the lions den and getting ripped apart. You have reached expiry, pump and dump forever now.

  57. @Deti

    One point where I disagree with you – I don’t believe the problem here is the lying (or, not exclusively the lying). It’s also the sex, the drugs, the history of hedonism.

    Look, I am a married man, a father, and a business owner. My wife is legally entitled to share my assets, mother my children, and be an integral component in my life. I CHOSE my wife because I think she is a trustworthy person, and I based that decision on her past behavior. True, past behavior is not necessarily an indicator of the future – no more so for a spouse than for a stock. But without that, we truly have nothing to judge, and we might as well go back to arranged marriages.

    This man thought he was getting a trustworthy wife, based on her behavior at the time, and her accounting of her past behavior. Based on that information, he chose to make her his partner in everything he does. He now has new information. She is a liar. She is a past drug user. She engaged in hedonistic threesomes with various men. She claims not to have behaved this way for 10 years (and let’s say we believe that), but she is still the same person who did it. If he had known, he never would have married her – never would have made her a partner in the corporation of his life.

    Marriage is a CONTRACT, and contracts need to be undertaken in good faith. In any other type of contract, if a partner can show a lack of good faith, the contract is null and void. Why do people think that marriage is any different? This particular woman now feels entitled to a share of her husband’s assets, which she had no part in earning. WHY??? She claims she gave him 5 years of her life, but places no value in the 5 years of HIS life that he gave her. Why does she feel entitled to ANYTHING from him? She feels entitled to stay married to him, in spite of her falsehoods. She feels entitled to his assets, in spite of having signed a pre-nup. She feels entitled to be angry at him, in spite of the fact that he is the one who should be angry at her. To what is HE entitled? To an honest wife? To keep the assets he earned? To pursue his own happiness with a partner he feels he can trust?

  58. Newgal fails to realize that the men she (and all women want, the 5%) do the choosing by their standards.

  59. @thedeti

    Your comment Ladies

    Well roar’d Lion! This should be hammered home to the Ladies once for all.

  60. @ Newgal

    Women are NATURAL plate spinners. They are always one text away from a new orbiter, or some silly ex, or a new “friend.” Even if you are not screwing guys, you are emotionally spinning them. 🙂 Never met a woman that was not “spinning” game. My wife tells me each time one of her old male “friends” messages her on FB. I call that game. After 22 years of marriage. Interesting right?

    A RP man is aware of your game and understands it. And you HATE that. You want your sexual strategy to prevail.

    A RP man will know his value. Plate spinning is about awareness. A guy does not have to screw around, but knows he can.

    I guess you don’t like someone playing by the same rules. I guess the rules apply only to men. How cute.

  61. @thedeti: You got good points there, but I cannot follow you regarding the matter of trust. Imho you cannot trust any women you have sex with anyway or at least not very far. Because hypergamy and all that.

    And I don’t see the need to rationalize or justify his decision. The knowledge about her past turns him off and that’s enough to next her. If women can “change their mind” for much less, why should a man not do the same?

  62. @downunder

    Well said. I think the funniest part is when a woman is throwing out these lines while they are plate spinning (the rationalization) and you are very aware what is going on at the time. She’s always going to give some excuse as to why some guy is contacting her (i.e. an ex or old crush) but she’ll never reveal why (now). She always has to look good (for you) because you are on deck. She’s not going to tell you that she led on her ex for a little cash (just two days ago) and now she’s ignoring him.

    Indeed, they are natural “plate spinners” – very deceptive. It’s the reason why women hate other women…they know what they are up to at all times.

    If you can see this coming (through a RP lens), then you just have to laugh when it’s laid out in front of you.

  63. I doubt this will get any better with my generation. Millennials are more aware nowadays about the truth of women, we got music rap hip hop, movies, the internet, magazines, word of mouth, etc. Telling us the truth about girls. Word spreads fast, I bet blogs like these are popular in colleges. Anyway, when I’m 30 I’m gonna do the same thing, I won’t marry a girl who is my age, so many sluts nowadays and they think we don’t know about it. The best way to counter this is to not give them what they want in the end, a family and marriage with a guy they are attracted to hehe

  64. “Women are NATURAL plate spinners. They are always one text away from a new orbiter, or some silly ex, or a new “friend.” Even if you are not screwing guys, you are emotionally spinning them.”

    So true. And by so doing they’re conditioning Betas to yield to the FI by yielding provisions and emotional support without sex – they’re very adept at keeping orbiters in tow but with enough distance that they’ll keep hope alive while at the same time fearing rejection and humiliation for making a move on the woman. Even to the point that if they sense the Beta is wising up or gaining interest in another woman, they’ll turn up the hope dial – “I’m so glad to have you in my life . . . why can’t all guys be like you (but I don’t want to ruin our “friendship” cum Beta orbiter relationship that flatters me and gives me cheap validation).” To the female Id Betas are half-men, nonentities whose emotional lives, needs and desires simply don’t exist or don’t exist to the point of earning them empathy.

  65. I like the way when she’s getting ready to lawyer up it’s “I gave him the best 5 years of my life,” but it turns out that they’ve simply known each other for 5 years and only been married for 2.

    When you get into court, it’s only the 2 that count sweety. Only 2.

  66. @Newgal

    Female. Over 30. Currently seeing someone who is into RP.

    Almost forgot to mention: high chance you never have a chance of getting a commitment out of him. You’re not a special snowflake. You’re just another plate. No 30+ year old gets Unicorn status.

  67. Jeremy,

    That’s not devastation over lost love. Nowhere does she mention that the man she loves will be out of her life. She would be a complete mess, instead she is calculating how to get back at him for ruining her plans of what she thought her marriage would be.

    Read the comments here. This woman thinks her faithfulness deserves some kind of reward. It was not a defat position. It’s all about her, her, her. Nothing about him. No regret, no understanding of his position, just thoughts of how to get back at him. That is not a woman in love.

  68. For the young men reading this post and comments. Familiarize yourself with Rollo’s work. It is better than a PhD. Believe it. A failed marriage and divorce can ruin your financial, social, and psychological well being. Sometimes with deadly consequences. An addiction to a woman can have deadlier consequences than any drug. Period.

    Remember.
    Always assume her phone contains at least 5 numbers she can dial in a flash and another guy will take your place. Always assume she can flirt and manipulate another guy. Always assume that she has one, two, three or even four back up plans in case you do not fulfill the expectations. Never underestimate her “goodness” and “innocence.” Because good girls DO and WILL and MUST have fun. Ask yourself young men, “What can she do for ME.”

  69. On the subject of the double standard, what’s really interesting when you look at it is why that standard exists. It exists because of how each sex views the other sex. Women are the ones who select for the guys who are high quality and can spin plates. Men are the ones who select for charming, low/no-N count women.

    The reason women get upset is because men won’t apply the female standard for men to women, instead applying a standard (self-control: don’t overeat, don’t fuck everything that moves) that women find difficult to live up to. When women bitch about a “double standard” it’s really their way of complaining we’re not all using their standard.

    Female solipsism at its finest.

  70. @Newgal, your confusion about some perceived double standard is understandable, and Deti did a good job of explaining it, however Roosh addressed this very well too:

    http://www.rooshv.com/the-contradiction-of-pursuing-casual-sex-while-advocating-for-traditional-values

    A popular manosphere saying is that women are gatekeepers to sex and men are gatekeepers to commitment. I wish this was an absolute truth, but it’s not. As a collective, women are often gatekeepers to both sex and commitment. Most men reading right now can surely attest to their failed attempts to secure commitment from women they slept with, and if you poll the entire population of men, you may find that they are the initiators of monogamous relationships more often than women. It only makes sense for this to be true: it is way more damaging for a man to have his woman sleep with another man and get cuckolded than the other way around. The 0.5% of the population who are skilled players and have more say with commitment don’t put a dent into this common reality. As a sex, men have very little say in determining the relationship dynamic.

  71. I don’t have any problem with any woman who wants to sleep around. I have no problem with any woman who wants sex with hot players. I have no problem with women wanting sex with good looking men with options, and who are going for the longshot that they can get commitment.

    What I have a problem with is women lying about it. I DO have a problem with women believing their decisions have no consequences. I DO have a problem with women insisting that they should not bear consequences that naturally flow from their decisions. I DO have a problem with women insisting that men bear the consequences that naturally flow from her decisions.

  72. “I am going to meet with my lawyer this week and see if the agreement can be challenged in court.”

    Then the hooker hamster spins wildly:

    “We have built a life together, I gave him 5 of the best years of my life and I’ve been 100% faithful to him – I don’t fucking deserve to be tossed out like a piece of trash.”

    Hooker deserves to be paid!!!

    Difference between a hooker and a wife? A hooker demands cash upfront while a wife will have sex with you on credit, put on an a payment plan, and demand an acceleration clause in the event of default (aka divorce).

  73. It is interesting to read women write on their utter confusion at a man who wants to blow up his relationship with her once he finds out that he’s not getting her sexual best. In their solipsism they truly believe that their sexuality is theirs to do with what they want, to give to whomever they want, however they want, and no one should ever complain about getting less.

    The women are simply mistaken. This just doesn’t work out on the long term. Male productivity could be argued the same way. What if husbands decided to force their wives to shop at thrift stores while they, being breadwinners, only had their clothes made by hand at a tailor? What if husbands decided to force their women to eat canned beans while they expected large elaborate meals prepared for them? What if husbands decided to live in a separate 3-story house, while subjecting the women-folk to a shed in the backyard?

    Men don’t generally do this (at least in Western Cultures), they use their excess productivity to better their family and their community. In fact it was the restraining of female sexuality to marriage that probably led to the most productive men in western society being so damn productive. We probably literally owe our modern convenient existence to a small subset of women WHO DID give their sexual best to a single man, and were glad to do it. The most (historically) wealthy men in existence (Rockefeller and Carnegie), gave away LARGE fractions of their lifetime accumulated wealth (and perverted the political process in this country, but that’s a separate discussion). That’s the equivalent of Marilyn Monroe deciding to give free sexual intercourse to lots and lots of men she felt deserved some validation during her peak years. No woman would ever do this.

    Female solipsism seems to disallow any thought towards using female sexuality to make the world a *better* place, instead they all seem to think it’s just a self-validating tool for them to feel better about themselves.

  74. Newgal:

    All the obvious answers have been given already, so I’ll try something a bit more subtle – I am not sexually attracted to men.

  75. The elephant in the room is; what sex act had she denied him that he discover she had performed willingly and repeatedly in college?

  76. “You’re telling the men how to be the alpha fucks that are going to get laid by women then call those same women not worthy of marriage later in their lives . . . It goes both ways. The double standards are are incredible. It’s almost as though you’re teaching men to ‘not belong up any club that will have them as a member’. What’s the solution here?”

    _______________________________

    You’re focusing here on the supposed double standard of women and men writ large. What you’re overlooking is something I could best frame thus: With regard to the specific case at issue of this man and this woman, do you really think that he was having drug fueled threesomes in college with his girlfriend at the time and her female roommate? Or do you think that this man was dutifully studying for his calculus exams and preparing his management case study projects? You seem to ignore that this man wound up with this woman, not with an Alpha fux mirror of herself who himself may not have been preparing to build wealth and the means to provide a life of leisure and security to a passed around whore. The double standard is a single standard you want to impose on men – fucking in-demand bad boys while some future husband is dutifully preparing a comfortable life for her while at the same time being passed over for the bad boys.

    On a grander scale, can you not see how the center will not hold in view of what is good for a civil society? Do you think we need more guys riding Harleys and garage band guitar heroes or more engineers, surgeons, and entrepreneurs?

  77. @Rollo

    Saw that when it popped up yesterday. Such an excellent rule of thumb, I have no idea why I didn’t think of it before.

  78. Jeremey

    “The women are simply mistaken. This just doesn’t work out on the long term. Male productivity could be argued the same way.”

    My favorite analogy is that women would be hard pressed to accept the following scenario.

    Chick pines for dude because he’s handsome, wealthy, funny, commands a room, is a celebrity, owns tons of property, etc..

    Buddy rebukes her constantly, but showers other chicks with money, parties, fancy outtings etc.. and they do nothing for him but fuck him and suck his dick.

    Years later, he’s broke, his hairs fallen out, he’s got a gut. He spent all his money on coke, whores and gambling. BUT he’s seen the error of his ways. He still has some property and some wealth, but he’s a shell of his former self. But he’s had to do all that to discover WHO HE REALLY IS.

    Now he wants her to ‘wife’ him up. He’s saved his best for her.

    Oh and on top of all that, he doesn’t tell her how he went broke, basically feigns a story about the crash of 2008 wiping out his investments. So she hooks up and marries him – but she also has to cook, clean, and pamper him all throughout, be the dutiful wife.

    2-5 years later after the marriage, she finds out just how frivolous he was. How those other women didn’t have to cook, or clean, or pamper or do anything to merit him blowing his cash or his wad on them. HOW DARE HE GIVE THEM HIS BEST and make her WORK for his meager shriveled up wealth and status.

    He replies “Well, what i did with all my assets back in the day is really none of your business.. the fact i threw money at girls for touching my cock means nothing! Only thing that matters is how much i love you right now!”

    Yea. Sure. Tell me anyone who would side with the dude if all of a sudden he got mad at her for not appreciating the last 2-5 years of what he’s done for her.

  79. Women will break the rules for men who turn them on = Chemistry
    “Oh my god, it just happened” “Was meant to be” “Like i’ve known you forever”

    Create rules for men they don’t respect = Creepy / Disgruntled
    “Ewww creepy rapist guy go away” “Do the dishes and MAYBE i’ll let you go down on me” “I’m not that kind of woman, i’m done with the games.” “I want a REAL MAN, not a boy.. we go on dates, you pay” “I got stuck with Harold once i hit 40. He’s useless. We don’t have sex”

    It’s like MAGIC
    If you don’t know how the trick is performed it’s wonderful ignorant bliss.
    If you know how the trick is done, the illusion is broken and you lose interest fast.

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