Betas In Waiting

betas-in-waiting

I came across another familiar story on the TRP Reddit this week. It’s familiar because this story is becoming increasingly more common as Hypergamy becomes a more open secret that women can no longer keep under wraps.

For the better part of 2014, and in Preventive Medicine, I explored the social trend of Open Hypergamy and the impact it’s beginning to effect on contemporary western(ized) culture. In that exploration I published Saving the Best (another TRP link), a story which revolved around the increasingly more common post-Epiphany Phase “regrets” women have when their Party Years indiscretions are made evident to the Beta men who committed to them in monogamy or marriage.

Have a read of Saving the Best before you continue here, you’ll see the commonalities immediately. I’m going to dissect this “confession” a bit as I go, but bear in mind this woman’s predicament is the direct result of the unintentional Red Pill awareness that Open Hypergamy has brought men to – even uninitiated Beta men.

An update, for those asking for it. Here’s the link to my original post although the text has been deleted? Before I get into the details, I’d just like to say I greatly appreciate the support this community extended me. Believe it or not, I read every response.

As of this morning, we still hadn’t slept in the same bed or spoken more than 10 words to each other in passing. As I was waking up, he was walking in the front door with two coffees. He sat me down at our kitchen table and finally opened up to me.

Basically he feels that he was “conned” (his word) into the marriage, saying that he wouldn’t have even dated me, let alone married me, if he’d known what he knows now. His view of me has been irreparably changed and he no longer sees me “as someone worthy of being [his] wife”. (quoting him here… fucking prick) Beyond the sexual aspect, he says he no longer trusts me because I “kept something this big” from him our whole relationship.

One of the primary disconnects women are conditioned to believe during their Epiphany Phase is that a “good man” will be willing to forgive and forget her past indiscretions. On their journey of self-exploration and discovery women are encouraged to adopt a finely tuned cognitive dissonance with who they conveniently become and what should be the consequences of their pasts. While men are expected to live up to their responsibilities as men, and are expected to own up to the consequences of their failures, at the Epiphany Phase women are encouraged to convince themselves that they become someone else – someone who was “so different” from who she was in her Party Years.

Her husband feels “conned” because he was conned; conned after discovering the dual personality of his pre and post Epiphany Phase wife. What we’re expected to believe here (courtesy of the social conventions emplaced by the Feminine Imperative) is that her husband is some prudish, moralistic throwback unwilling to accept and embrace the “real” her – the one who was trying to “get it right” by turning over a new leaf with him. This is the easy, ready-to-use shame that women have available to them; if a man becomes indignant over a woman’s sexual past it translates into his insecurities as a man. His feeling conned over his bait & switch marriage is redirected to being his problem.

Men aren’t off the hook with that convenient convention either. There’s a moral high ground many men want to claim and cast the actions of a guy in this circumstance as virtuous and a proper revenge for being mislead. While that may feel good, men in this situation aren’t disillusioned with their ‘unworthy’ wives from a moral pretense, but rather that they believed they would be entitled to their wives’ sexual best reserved for him. As I quoted in Saving the Best, they “marry a whore who fucks like a prude.”

Subjectively that may or may not be the case, but it’s the freedom and genuine desire with which their wives had sex with prior (Alpha) lovers; desire that wasn’t based on material provisioning, emotional investment or the logistical hoops women expect their post-Epiphany “good men” to perform to in order to merit their sexual and intimate attentions. That’s the disconnect, that’s the con; Alpha Bad Boys get her 3-Way genuine sexual abandon with no investment expected, while he’s got to maintain ‘multiple businesses’ in order to get a prosaic sexual experience with her. The Bad Boys got her sexual best for free, while he’s expected to accept her as the ‘new’ post-Epiphany her…

Nothing I could do or say could convince him that these were past mistakes and not reflective of who I am today. He wasn’t angry with me, didn’t call me a slut or anything like that. Never once raised his voice. Part of me wishes he did, although I can’t exactly say why right now. It felt like I was being laid off from a job.

As I mentioned, the expectation is for her husband to accept “who she is today”, yet who she was ten years ago had a more genuine desire for less established, but sexually arousing, lovers. I’m going to speculate here, but it’s likely that a man who owns multiple businesses spent more of his time diligently and (I presume) responsibly cultivating those enterprises than the men his wife took as lovers ten years ago. Again, we can see that as a moral virtue on his part, but there’s a root indignation of what her past represents within the context of his (I assume) responsible past.

And like a good business owner he plays the confrontation calmly and collectedly. The part of her that wishes he’d raised his voice is the same part that got excited by the Alpha indifference of her former lovers.

So that’s it. We are getting divorced. My supposed life-partner turning his back on me without a second thought. He didn’t even have the decency to discuss it with me first – apparently he visited his lawyer during the week and “the process is in motion” (his words). Knowing him, there is absolutely no changing his mind.

My husband owns multiple businesses and wouldn’t get married without a prenup. I signed it, honest-to-god thinking we’d never, EVER have to use it. Well, he had the fucking document with him this morning. He said he’d pay off the remainder of my student loans, which he isn’t “legally obligated” to do. While I appreciate that, I am going to meet with my lawyer this week and see if the agreement can be challenged in court. We have built a life together, I gave him 5 of the best years of my life and I’ve been 100% faithful to him – I don’t fucking deserve to be tossed out like a piece of trash.

So that’s it. My life turned upside-down in the span of a week, over something I did 10+ YEARS AGO BEFORE I EVEN KNEW HIM. It’s fucking asinine. The thing is, even as I wrote the original post, in the back of my mind I knew he was through with me. He’s ended friendships and business partnerships over less.

Ghosts of Epiphanies Past

In Preventive Medicine I go into a bit of detail about men in this increasingly common circumstance. There is a subconscious expectation on the part of Beta men who find themselves at or just past women’s Epiphany Phase, that predisposes them to believing that what they’ve become as a result of their perseverance throughout their 20’s has now come to fruition and the women who ignored them then have now matured to a point where he’s the ‘sexy’ one at last.

Unless men have a moment of clarity or a Red Pill initiation of their own prior to this, what they don’t accept is that this expectation is a calculated conditioning of the Feminine Imperative to prepare him for women like this; women who can no longer sexually compete for the Alpha Fucks they enjoyed in their Party Years. The Feminine Imperative teaches him that he can expect a woman’s “real” sexual best from the “real” her – why else would she agree to a lifelong marriage if he weren’t the optimal choice to settle down with? Why wouldn’t she be even more sexual than in her past with the man she’s chosen to spend her life with and have children with?

That is the message the Feminine Imperative used to subtly and indirectly imply to Betas-in-waiting. Now with the comfort of Open Hypergamy this message is published in best selling books by influential women:

“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead

Not to belabor Sandberg yet again (she has been hocking the tired out Choreplay meme recently), but this is essentially the outline of the script we’re reading in this woman’s lament. She’s essentially followed Sandberg’s advice only to find that her Beta-in-waiting bought into the same script too. The problem for her is that he took the “nothing’s sexier” part to heart only to find that someone else was sexier long before she’d convinced him otherwise.

For what it’s worth, fem-centrism has far less to fear from the manosphere revealing the ugly Red Pill truths about Hypergamy and more to worry about from pridefully self-indulgent women gleefully explaining it to the general populace themselves. Roosh had a tweet this week with what would likely have been the attitude of our subject wife ten odd years ago:

https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/580169533253636096

The more common Open Hypergamy becomes and the more proudly it’s embraced by the whole of women the less effective shaming men into acceptance of it will be. However, I thought it was entertaining when the counter-comments on Saving the Best questioned how common this situation really was or else thought it was trolling.

I think it’s much more prevalent than most men would like to admit. Perhaps not as dramatic as this example, but far more common for a majority of men who’ve tacitly accepted that the woman they married (or paired with) gave her best to her prior lovers and are too personally or family invested to extricate themselves from her after they’ve realized it. That investment necessitates them convincing themselves of the pre-planned memes the Feminine Imperative has prepared for them – that they are doing the right thing by forcing that dissonance out of their minds.

A lot of Betas-in-waiting like to claim a personal sense of vindication about their successfully pairing and breeding with women who they believe are (and were) their SMV evaluate equals once those women have “got it out of their system” with regards to self-discovery and Alpha indiscretions. In a sense they’re correct; often enough these are the men who gratefully embrace a woman’s intimate acceptance of him precisely at the point when his SMV has matured to match this woman’s declining SMV. I call this crossover the comparative SMV point in my SMV graph.

Print

Even women on the down-slide of their SMV like to encourage the idea that their post-Epiphany decision to marry the Plan B Beta provider (long term orbiter) is evidence of their newly self-discovered maturity. How could they have been so foolish and not seen how the perfect guy for her had been there all along? That consideration gratifies the ego of a Beta who’s been hammered flat by rejection or mediocre experiences with women up to that point.

The primary reason I spent the last year compiling Preventive Medicine was to help men see past the compartmentalization of women’s phases of maturity, but also to help them see past their own immediate interpretations of those phases as they’re experiencing them. Long term sexual and intimate deprivation (i.e. Thirst) will predispose men to convincing themselves of the part they believe they should play in the social conventions of the Feminine Imperative. Their own cognitive dissonance is a small, subliminal price to pay when they believe they’re finally being rewarded with a woman who’s now ready to give him her best.

What inspired me to this post was reading a cutesy photo-meme on Facebook. The syrupy message was “My only regret was not meeting you sooner so we could spend more of our lives together” superimposed over some kids in black & white holding a rose. Then it hit me, this was a message a guy was posting to his girlfriend; the one he’d met after his second divorce was finalized. What he didn’t want to think about was that if he’d met her sooner she’d have been too busy “discovering herself” to have anything to do with him.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter
Offline

@ Sun Wukong Although Jeremy’s logic is solid I think he perhaps operates under a flawed premise. Newgal states clearly women must by sluts for men to get laid. This also means women must be sluts for women to get laid. Why must that be true? Because Newgal alludes to a dirty little truth so ingrained in the social consciousness it’s a cliché: wives hate sex. Therefore women, sluts and otherwise, get married so they can stop having sex except as necessary to get pregnant. Think about it. The girlfriend provides sex good enough to motivate a desire in the… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@bp Oh absolutely. The wife that hates sex is such a “thing” now I really think it’s what makes even Blue Pill guys at least pause on their way to the altar. “Do I really want to put a libido draining fat license on her finger?” I think that premise is largely built out of feminine cynicism about settling for BB. They all know the script so well that they assume they’re going to marry a guy they don’t want to fuck. Imagine that: assuming you’re going to hate sex for the rest of your life. What a horrendously awful… Read more »

greyghost
Guest
greyghost
Offline

Men are much better off with the truth.

LiveFearless
Guest
lh
Guest
lh
Offline

The topic of her “sexual best” seems to me a lot like negotiated desire. Why argue about it? Why demand something? You either make her tingles or not. You either take that wild sex from her as you wish, or not. I thought those were Rollo’s basics? The problem is how marriage with monogamy, provisioning, the husband always willing to fuck her etc kills her tingles and any arguing, shaming, demanding wont change that. I think the manosphere’s concept of hypergamy is flawed since it is build upon a male or rational view. The manosphere seems to believe hypergamy would… Read more »

kira
Guest
kira
Offline

Please Rollo do an article regarding couple fights.Why males beat females…and why females fight.

Ra Sputin
Guest
Ra Sputin
Offline

@Rollo

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-therapy/201308/what-do-women-really-want

Not sure if the above link would be of any interest.

Spawny Get
Guest
Spawny Get
Offline

No wonder the woman in the Reddit story feels aggrieved. She played a blinder according to the sex-pos fembot handbook’s plan for female fulfillment. She sampled many, many empowering cocks, some at the same time, did drugs, drank, partied hard and then…just before she turned thirty she locked down a great provider in marriage. You go gurl! And the whole thing brought low because some girl she likely prude-shamed back in college waited ten years to deliver the perfect coup-de-grace / revenge-cunt-punt…by telling part of the truth. It would be even sweeter if we leaned that the ‘friend’ was invited… Read more »

downunder
Guest
downunder
Offline

@Newgal I’m aware of your predicament. Your past can not be undone. But, to a worthy man you can explain, and emphasize that you made mistakes, and you TRULY repent your behaviour. Second, behave with Femininity. Drop the orbiters, “friends”, bullshit. Level the playing field darling. Are you willing to do that? Show a man that you can give, you can be vulnerable, you can appreciate. Read Dalrocks posts on what it means to embody femininity. a RP man wants a Woman. Not a testasterone fueled “porn queen.” Be what nature made you my dear. A woman. Understand your opportunistic… Read more »

downunder
Guest
downunder
Offline

My above comments were pertaining the idea of marriage and commitment in your future. Not some bullshit LTR or two month hook up.

If you want to enjoy all the Alphas, more power to you my lady. Just know that you will be pumped, dumped, and be a regular in a soft harem. But, the gina tingles will be hawwwtt..
As I tell my nieces and daughter, ” Make your choice. Own up to it.”

downunder
Guest
downunder
Offline

There is so much tragedy in our plight as men. We want to believe we are loved, treasured, cherished just for being ourselves. Reality is much harsher, as Rollo points out. In most cases we are pawns in a woman’s game. Subjects of a Female Imperative. Not even slaves. They are threatened and subjugated. Most men ( our brethen) VOLUNTEER out of their own free will for a life of subservient platitude. Such joy! These are the conditions women do not want you to know. You must not be aware of hypergamy, just its servant. You are just supposed to… Read more »

thedeti
Guest
thedeti
Offline

@ Realist: “What I’m getting at here is that her desire is subconsciously driven. To a certain extent, there is nothing you can do about it (aside from working out, or tweaking your physique) so it’s best to keep moving on utill one finds you desirable. Even then, it really is a gamble since I’m willing to bet that a man’s rejection rate is tied into his desirability rating to MOST if not ALL women.” Yeah, that’s a good one, and I bet that Rollo has touched on it before. The fact is that only about 20 to 25% of… Read more »

girlwithadragonflytattoo
Guest

@Buena Vista… “labeled me a “dysfunctional pessimist no one wants to be around.”

You’re not that.

thedeti
Guest
thedeti
Offline

“My issue is with the contradictory teachings here. You advocate for men to spin plates and keep it casual- definitely to sleep with them for a while before handing out any kind of commitment. Yet for a women to be considered worthy of a commitment she has to be the kind of woman that won’t be a plate. You understand that if women started doing what you want them to do, none of you would ever get laid.” Ah. I see the problem now. This site is not about getting women to “do what [we] want them to do”. This… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?
Offline

I think this story puts some light on a few other differences between male and female. Men put a premium on things like truth and honor. Women put a premium on the feels. Even if this women is sincere, she is putting a premium on the feels when she decides not to come clean. “No need to upset anyone”. In her solipsism she had no idea how her man feels about truth and honor and is probably genuinely confused about why this is all happening. As said by others, the guy is more pissed about the lie, because truth means… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@Spawny Get No wonder the woman in the Reddit story feels aggrieved. She played a blinder according to the sex-pos fembot handbook’s plan for female fulfillment. She sampled many, many empowering cocks, some at the same time, did drugs, drank, partied hard and then…just before she turned thirty she locked down a great provider in marriage. You go gurl!… She is incensed because the self-identity she built up, which is tied to all of the slutting it up early in life and excused by the feminine matrix as “empowerment”… is now being REJECTED by a man she had invested herself… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky
Offline

@Jeremy – I laughed, good comment.

@deti – I almost feel like showing your advice to some girls I know. If I thought they’d react with anything but indignation, “how dare you think I’d sleep around!” Ah well, hamsters gonna hamp.

Newgal amuses me. She thinks her words are like some magic spell that compel agreement – “Huh, it didn’t work. They were supposed to acknowledge my perspective as legitimate…. Here, let me try saying the same thing again, maybe it’ll catch this time. Christ, men think they’re so logical and so you try logic and look what happens….”

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Newgal is just another woman pretending she has no power over sexual selection. She’s been pretending to have no say in the sex act for so long, she actually believes that women somehow have no say in how or when they have sex. She is incapable of understanding that women are the gatekeepers of sex, and men are the gatekeepers of commitment. This flies in the face of her claiming to be a “red pill” woman, because she’s still denying her own part in the dance, expecting men to pick up the slack. Ultimately, she’s behaving no differently than any… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Newgal,

Go to the RPW reddit and read, read, read.

This site is for men’s sexual strategies. Women’s are going to be very different.

Spawny Get
Guest
Spawny Get
Offline

@Jeremy
“We need the women to wail loud enough that the girls in high school hear it.”

Women with honour in the older cohort would be telling their younger sisters that men don’t want to marry sluts (a phenomenon seen in good men known as ‘save the next guy’. A code of honour among test pilots / astronauts / soldiers etc). Women don’t do that, they always place their own pride and position in the crab bucket above helping the next generation). maybe ‘save the next guyorgurl’ is a patriarchal construct?

kobayashii1681
Guest

@ Sun: “The reason women get upset is because men won’t apply the female standard for men to women, instead applying a standard (self-control: don’t overeat, don’t fuck everything that moves) that women find difficult to live up to. When women bitch about a “double standard” it’s really their way of complaining we’re not all using their standard.

Female solipsism at its finest.”

Brilliant!

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
Offline

Well, I have news for you (picking up jacket, purse), women, including me, like those things, and I would like those things…its like you are saying THEY were good enough for that but…”MAN: “Whoa! What’s with all the insecurity…you asked me about what I wanted now…that was all in my past, I’m a different person now, HOLY SHIT you are judgmental…just because I had (and did) those things with THOSE WOMEN doesn’t mean I want that forever, or even with you, I really like you and you are different than those women:WOMAN (tears): “YA? so different that you spoiled them… Read more »

Razorwire
Guest
Razorwire
Offline

ISTO, Don’t forget about the m/f difference relating to the making of a man or woman, as in, “made me who I am today”. I’ve yet to meet a man who has claimed that random sex or any variety of sexual adventuring has made him WHO he is today. Sampling vaginas do not make a man. But somehow we are implored to understand that sampling penises makes a woman WHO she is today. What makes the man is what affords him access to sex in the first place. He must already be this man to be desired, valued. Men know… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Heh… This brought to mind some engineer humor. The problem is that all women use this to some extent. Even those who can count their N on TWO HANDS. Suggesting two hands is more honorable than three hands. Which of course must mean that N matters, and not just N, but that each successive N matters (in the negative) which of course means that a ONE HAND N is more honorable than a TWO HAND N. But the slope only slips one direction in her mind. Without the second hand of N’s, she would not be the person he now… Read more »

Lucien
Guest
Lucien
Offline

@Newgal I really don’t like the tone of the responses to your post, because I see your questions as being asked in good faith. I hope you don’t bail entirely on the “manosphere” despite that reaction. There’s a complex set of interlocking ideas here, and people who read this kind of stuff frequently probably start to see it as so intuitive that they forget what it looks like to a newcomer. Anyway, this might not be obvious at first glance but I think most of the people “spinning plates” are trying to make the best of a bad situation. There… Read more »

Razorwire
Guest
Razorwire
Offline

@Spawny “Women with honour in the older cohort would be telling their younger sisters that men don’t want to marry sluts…” Exactly. To me, this lack of instructing the next generation as to the risks, trade-offs, costs of certain decisions and priorities is one of the biggest tells of women’s lack of ownership; their desire to avoid personal responsibilities/outcomes in favor of doubling-down on the control and manipulation of how men view, value, and respond to those past choices. In fact, most often I see these women – who are in the midst of dealing with the outcomes of their… Read more »

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter
Offline

Rollo – “That’s because ‘sampling’ literally does make a woman who she is today.”

Yes!

It makes her unsuitable for serious consideration for marriage. It makes her an unpaid prostitute, a junk bond quality investment. It makes her incapable of honoring commitments from any man.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Ouch… ok, my comment was likely mean… but Rollo’s cut deeper.

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter
Offline

Razorwire – “They are assuring that the value of sex in the SMP remain low while simultaneously expecting men to see their personal sexuality as something worthy of a lifelong commitment.” Actually I think they want men to commit to them based on their value exclusive of sex. What that non-sexual value is and why any man would commit to that without the sexual component is beyond my ability to imagine. But is does strike me that this is what they do when accept a commitment from the Beta provider. They value everything but his sexual value, which to them… Read more »

notalifeguard
Guest
notalifeguard
Offline

@downunder

>> My wife tells me each time one of her old male “friends” messages her on FB. I call that game. After 22 years of marriage

Total BS isn’t it ! Had it happen with LTR’s. And I love it when you do the same for fun, got a message from this gal and their Hamster goes in overdrive! I’m a firm believer of no married woman (or man) needs facebook. If you want it, then you have a “couple” account for the family, thats it. No good comes from Facebook for Married couples.

Razorwire
Guest
Razorwire
Offline

“It’s pragmatic and brilliant when you think about it. It’s an exquisite solution to the problem of a dual mating strategy.” Indeed it is. Particularly the built-in scalability. Who is to say how much or what kind of sampling is necessary to make her complete? Whats more tedious and disheartening to me is not the “different men for different purposes” but it is the notion of obligatory acceptance by men and the constant efforts to stifle the male corollary as well as steal his right to decide for himself the answer to the question above in terms of his investment… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@notalifeguard

No good comes from Facebook for Married couples.

But… you just got explaining how facebook accounts could be used for a form of soft dread… sounds like some good can come from it.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

I direct the next RM book towards women.

LOL. No.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@Razorwire

Exactly. To me, this lack of instructing the next generation as to the risks, trade-offs, costs of certain decisions and priorities is one of the biggest tells of women’s lack of ownership; their desire to avoid personal responsibilities/outcomes in favor of doubling-down on the control and manipulation of how men view, value, and respond to those past choices.

Yes, but… all of those adult behaviors were abandoned because they were part of the patriarchy holding women down. Women of the previous two generations *willfully* abandoned their posts and called it “progress”.

Razorwire
Guest
Razorwire
Offline

@BP “Actually I think they want men to commit to them based on their value exclusive of sex. ” This could well be the case, but to your point, I rarely see women highlighting (offering) anything beyond their sexuality. The idea of sexual exclusivity, which is really what commitment in any form outside of marriage entails at its core, suggests that the (her) sexuality is now sacred. This is about her. Her sexuality is sacred. His is assumed. If she valued him as a sexual being first, he would have no need to put his commitment on the table until/unless… Read more »

Razorwire
Guest
Razorwire
Offline

@Jeremy lol, progress. I know we are all just suffering the growing pains of this progression. It is why, when feeling particularly cantankerous, I dismiss marriage – even sexual exclusivity, as archaic relics of the oppressive patriarchy and tell her I desire her to be free, to continue to evolve and explore; that I would never desire to cage such a beautiful bird. Be free my little bird! Who am I, but a tree, with a branch for her to perch upon, so she may sing her song until such time she desires to take flight to a taller tree.… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

” . . . the ones who have a nice rock on the finger . . .”

Which they haven’t removed, because the rock is part of the proposition.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@Lucien There is plenty of commentary here involving guys saying how much they would prefer stable LTRs with good women to laying random club whores. Absolutely. If I’m being 100% honest, I’d rather my last relationship have worked out to a long term thing. She was a beautiful, smart chick that I would have been happy to settle down with, maybe even raise a few kids with eventually. They woulda been cute, no doubt about it. Instead, off to the cock carousel she headed. My N is now sitting in the 20 range. I never intended to get there. I’d… Read more »

StringsofCoins
Guest

This reminds me of speaking with my twenty year old cousin last year. She’s gorgeous, a fashion model, and a straight A student from an intact religious upper class family. Oh and she was a “virgin” whose parents were encouraging her to marry a 25 year old Italian surgeon. Gorgeous man as well. We spoke for a few weeks where I learned that she was a virgin in name only and confused by the feminist propaganda about why anyone would care about her virginity. She was also deathly afraid of “settling”. In her fairy princess imagination the King, the top… Read more »

honeycomb
Guest
honeycomb
Offline

Rules … Accountablility … Agency … I guess these are things women don’t apply to themselves … http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale/2015/03/25/scottsdale-yoga-instructor-sex-abuse-abrk/70427542/ “After the other adults had left the party or had gone to sleep, police said, Radomski invited seven boys into a room and let them fondle her breasts. The other boys then left the room, and investigators said Radomski performed oral sex on a 15-year-old boy.” I guess this 32 year old (post wall) woman had to “make do” with under-age boys since no man will touch her. She’s not the only predator (e.g. aggressive woman rapist of under-age boys) roaming the… Read more »

thedeti
Guest
thedeti
Offline

“Actually I think they want men to commit to them based on their value exclusive of sex. What that non-sexual value is and why any man would commit to that without the sexual component is beyond my ability to imagine. But is does strike me that this is what they do when accept a commitment from the Beta provider. They value everything but his sexual value, which to them doesn’t exist and doesn’t matter.” Right. And the reasons for a woman’s expectation of commitment from the Beta provider without the sexual component are that it removes the expectation that she… Read more »

Lemuel
Guest
Lemuel
Offline

The feminists are right. Marriage is a social construct. What they’re wrong about is assuming that it just “happens” in life once they’re “ready” for it. The unhappy reality for everyone’s sexual strategies is that marriage is the opposite of the law of the jungle and nature, and it has demands. It’s a discipline really. The effectiveness of birth control, the advocating of abortion, and –as a culture– our unreasonable assumption that true freedom can exist without responsibility does not foster a culture of marriage.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@Sun Wukong & Lucien There is plenty of commentary here involving guys saying how much they would prefer stable LTRs with good women to laying random club whores. Absolutely. If I’m being 100% honest, I’d rather my last relationship have worked out to a long term thing. She was a beautiful, smart chick that I would have been happy to settle down with, maybe even raise a few kids with eventually. They woulda been cute, no doubt about it. There’s no disagreement to be made here. I feel I must point out that Lucien’s point about the dearth of men… Read more »

honeycomb
Guest
honeycomb
Offline

Rules … Accountability … Agency … are all things women apply to others and not themselves. http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/scottsdale/2015/03/25/scottsdale-yoga-instructor-sex-abuse-abrk/70427542/ “After the other adults had left the party or had gone to sleep, police said, Radomski invited seven boys into a room and let them fondle her breasts. The other boys then left the room, and investigators said Radomski performed oral sex on a 15-year-old boy.” I guess this 32 year old (post wall) woman had to “make do” with the only male’s that would touch her. It’s time to for women to stop projecting onto men what women are doing in great… Read more »

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter
Offline

Razorwire – “This could well be the case, but to your point, I rarely see women highlighting (offering) anything beyond their sexuality. ” Maybe because that’s all they have to offer. Anything else is merely a list of wants to be fulfilled. They’re only offering sex because they also enjoy it. They are not offering anything that looks like labor, support, or effort because they don’t want to do those things unless those things are of no cost or consequence to them. If course I’m a cynic, but when I hear women talk about “working on our relationship” what they… Read more »

M3
Guest
M3
Offline

Jeremey “That point being that manosphere solutions are not a grand construct of ideal masculinity, they’re stop-gap measured responses to female sexual choices. If women don’t like male responses to how women guard the gates of sex, they have only themselves to blame.” I made the exact same point here regarding women’s irateness over the MGTOW strategy: “Throughout all of history and the evils of Patriarchy (if it ever existed) no man, NO MAN.. has ever said “We don’t need women for anything!”.. at least not until the most bitterly burnt men started to coalesce within the manosphere. Those of… Read more »

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
Offline

I had a guy on Twitter suggest I direct the next RM book towards women.

Do it!!!!!!!!!

Like another epistle from st. Rollo.

Dearly beloved, …

Vulpine
Guest
Vulpine
Offline

Ugh… The article reminds me of a relationship I had after drawing a bunch of “Alpha cards” from the deck that is the manosphere. Having some issues with internalizing the new RP material, I deliberately played only the “Beta cards” (with a poker face on) in a bit of “scientific experimentation”. I needed to not only test myself to establish what’s right/wrong with my BP outlooks/philosophies (troubleshoot), but to test the trump-like power of those “Alpha Cards” and their merit overall. Boy, did this one chick claim to “love” me after having moved in and experienced my perfect “beta-in-waiting” treatment.… Read more »

SigmaUnplugged
Guest
SigmaUnplugged
Offline

“As I mentioned, the expectation is for her husband to accept “who she is today”, yet who she was ten years ago had a more genuine desire for less established, but sexually arousing, lovers. I’m going to speculate here, but it’s likely that a man who owns multiple businesses spent more of his time diligently and (I presume) responsibly cultivating those enterprises than the men his wife took as lovers ten years ago. Again, we can see that as a moral virtue on his part, but there’s a root indignation of what her past represents within the context of his… Read more »

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

Jeez, you guys just don’t get it! FUCK! ‘But for now, I’m glad I could assert what was right for me. I am neither virgin nor whore, and I choose to hold that space proudly, which is not easy to do. I’ve always felt pressured to be one or the other to suit some man’s fantasy. But now, at 36, I can admit that, while I love to screw, I don’t want to be degraded like a porn star, objectified like a whore, and I don’t enjoy being orally raped. Do I want dudes to piss on me? No. Do… Read more »

BuenaVista
Guest
BuenaVista
Offline

One of the disconnects with the indignant threesome-loving, soon-to-be-divorcee in the OP, and Newgal, is that they live in a world that every interest, pleasure, and activity that they undertake is “empowering”. They expect to be celebrated by a man of their desire and needs according to their hypergamy lifecycle, their material needs, their random merit badges. If they are not they find fault with a) men; b) history; c) the external world. Noncompliant men are not worthy, not “good”, not “evolved.” How many times have you been with a woman who’s “empowered” by being an empathetic, thoughtful, intimate, occasionally… Read more »

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

She’s all grown up now!

LMFAROTFP!

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

Best comment yet for you Rollo –

“I just clicked on that link out of morbid curiosity. Lots of highfalutin armchair psychology and made-up jargon and big dictionary words used out of proper context. Oh, and the misogyny. It was unreadable. Are those losers speaking in some sort of loser code? It reminded me of that leaked video of Tom Cruise talking about how amazing Scientology is – the bizarre lingo, the hive mind, the weird and unnatural phrasing. ”

smile

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@DeNihilist Jeez, you guys just don’t get it! FUCK! Hehe, that article pretty much reads like the woman that says we don’t get it as she makes it clear she doesn’t get it. You don’t get to decide after the fact that the CC was a bad idea that you’re now tired of. You don’t get to pretend that your “change” matters one whit to the man you eventually plan to con in to marriage. You know damn well the reason you hide that past is because he’ll leave you over it if he’s got half an ounce of dignity… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

Hey rollo this goes to your tweet on Amber and shit testing
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k3hwP8m6NC0
This clip is the end but the story has such good social dynamics on alpha fucks beta bucks and well dealing with craziness.

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

Methinks these plan B dudes are the ultimate beta’s –

http://www.medicaldaily.com/back-plan-half-women-relationships-have-plan-b-man-they-can-run-away-305186

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

Her: (look of shock/horror, pause) “[Vulpine], I have a coke problem.” Me: “OK, get out NOW! I’ll pack your things. I’m not putting you out on the street, one of your suppliers will take you right in for another fuck and we both know it.” “She left in a tizzy, wasted, to go back to the dealer’s house (presumably to do more coke and continue with the coke-sex where she left off).” Ha! Nailed it in one. If drugs are involved, and coke is one of the worst because it directly contributes to sociopathic behaviour, don’t give them any time.… Read more »

kobayashii1681
Guest

As seen on dcurbanmum forum: “It’s been clinically proven that women are more likely to orgasm in long-term relationships”

http://s25.postimg.org/mxywnpke7/laugh.png

Hamsters gon’ spin!

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

Sun – Yes!

Your past actions are the foundation of your present life.

I think Deti’s posts up thread should be standard reading material for all girls from 6 years old on.

Most females really cannot process forward thinking logic to see where their present actions will take them.

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

Ah, it isn’t her fault, it is the boring guys that lead the fairer sex to the assholes!

http://elitedaily.com/dating/date-a-guy-who-bores-me-to-tears/918320/

another bit of sunshine into the hypergamey nest.

StringsofCoins
Guest

The thing is the only people who care what some 36 year old hag has realized are the 45 – 55 year old men who will date them. And those men are not going to date a woman who has had fifty cocks in every hole and is now mentally broken by the relentless pump and dumps.

What this worthless promiscuous epiphany should be doing is teaching the next generation of woman how to not follow in her footsteps. But she is far more concerned with how she is going to find her BB.

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

Perhaps today is a good day to die.
Best alpha line I’ve ever heard.

Softek
Guest
Softek
Offline

I’ve been wanting to share this for a while since I saw it on TV, but I couldn’t find it until now. As soon as it was over I was just like, “Oh man, I HAVE to share this over at RM. Somebody there is gonna love this.” Premise of the episode: Kathy gets bored of being a housewife and decides to pursue a glamorous career. Watch how the episode progresses and how it ends. I don’t want to spoil it Feminists would be all over this. I’d only have one thing to say to them: Danny Thomas’ trademark, where… Read more »

Softek
Guest
Softek
Offline

Woops, I linked the whole playlist. Sorry about that. The episode is:

THE DANNY THOMAS SHOW — Kathy’s Career ( 6th Season )

This should work:

https://youtu.be/ptfrdwxQdrs

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

“Kathy gets bored of being a housewife and decides to pursue a glamorous career.”

Note that this was first broadcast 7 years before the publication of The Feminine Mystique, during the Man’s Golden Age(tm) of the 50’s.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

“Kathy’s Career ( 6th Season ) ”

OK, four years. Still the 50’s.

Vulpine
Guest
Vulpine
Offline

@kfg Your version explicates, my version demonstrates. Had I mentioned the easy-to-infer, it would have painted me “jealous”. Fact was, I wasn’t anything besides ready for bed (I had other plates on standby). She just took both barrels, I didn’t need to pour gasoline on the fire. Sure, I could’ve mounted the fiddy-cal and *chug-chug-chug-chug-chug* proceeded to reduce her to paste with a thorough brow-beating, but I didn’t hate the chick. Besides, escalation is the outcome you describe. If it was I who dialed 911, or her, it would’ve been me in jail, either way. No, I didn’t need to… Read more »

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

Lemuel – The HUGE elephant in the room! – ” our unreasonable assumption that true freedom can exist without responsibility “

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

@Vulpine,

What? You mean she didn’t try to pull the, “But my coke-habit-for-sex-with-dealer is in the past baby, that’s the old me, I want you to experience the *new* me. You’re special, but different than addiction-crazed-sex-for-hits.”

It tells you a lot of the world we live in where energy-intensive young boys are considered to have some kind of treatable “disease” (ADHD)… but women who literally live dual lives and expect men not to judge them are considered sane.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

“If it was I who dialed 911 . . .”

I didn’t say dial 911.

Vulpine
Guest
Vulpine
Offline

@Jeremy Oh, I got the “I can change/It’ll never happen again” bit, prior to that, no doubt. But, she had been caught red-handed for the Xth time, so that approach was dead-ended by the noose in her pile of rope. Get it? Dead-ended? Noose? Nyuk-nyuk, nyuk. Read the “your love SUCKS” part and imagine being a that chick hearing that shit. Ladies? Care to imagine and comment on how that would feel? I might just as well stabbed a pin in the head of a voodoo doll fashioned in her likeness: that’ll bang around in her head for a long,… Read more »

Vulpine
Guest
Vulpine
Offline

@kfg

I fully comprehended your “dial 91” meaning when I read it, and I completely understand that “drug-fueled frenzy” potential you warn of. Been there.

Escalation to that frenzied pitch was handily avoided by not inserting any personal attacks that would serve to fire-up the emotions. See how I put the brakes on her game when she started to deal the cards?

Without knowing the rapport in this case, your points are valid, don’t get me wrong. Avoid (negative) escalation is my counter-point.

Softek
Guest
Softek
Offline

@ kfg I haven’t seen it, but I read that “Kathy’s Career” was an adaptation of an earlier episode from season 1 of the Danny Thomas Show. That episode is up there too: “Season 1, Episode 11, ‘Margaret’s Job’ (1953) Anyway, I’ll spoil it: The ending is so perfect. Talk about a slap in the face to the whole modern feminist trope of the “strong independent woman.” The ‘strong independent woman’ at the end – the lady that Kathy wants to work for – talks about how her husband, who she was making a lot more money than, left her… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

“I fully comprehended your “dial 91″ meaning when I read it . . .”

I suspected you may have, I was just making sure it was clear. And you got her out the door in a huff without having to use physical force, which is certainly the ideal.

“Interesting to watch things from an era long-gone and compare that with how things are today.”

Imagine how interesting watching how things are today for those of us who grew up watching Danny Thomas in first run.

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

Times long gone
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_C6J9gij5SQ

Softek
Guest
Softek
Offline

@kfg

I can only imagine

Lucien
Guest
Lucien
Offline

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/15/the_big_fk_buddy_lie_campus_hookups_and_the_dark_story_of_male_sexual_desire/ I think it goes under-appreciated that girls are not necessarily getting a lot out of being banged out by players for their entire 20s. Sure, they put a good face on it, especially while they’re in culturally-assisted denial. But subtle realities suggest they are merely going along with a horrible cultural script written by feminists. Feminism is so bad that it doesn’t even serve the interests of (most) women. Note that in the earlier salon article linked, the woman acknowledged she was wasted during almost every sexual encounter—because she would not have been able to have them at all… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

The FI is changing that with googles right of removal in Europe.

Lucien
Guest
Lucien
Offline

@StringsofCoins “The very idea that diligence and cultivating a good character would lead her to a happy life was beyond her. All she could see was all the alpha cock she would miss out on. All the fun. And all her friends were having so much “fun”. For whatever reason women do not seem to understand that hard work in the present leads to happiness in the future. They just want to live in paradise all the time. Let the slaves do the hard work.” We often say that girls are the gatekeepers to sex. That is only sort of… Read more »

kobayashii1681
Guest

@Jeremy: “watching people act like chemistry could ever be solved by “talking it out,”

Damn straight! Desire CAN NOT be negotiated.

kobayashii1681
Guest

@Rollo: “I had a guy on Twitter suggest I direct the next RM book towards women.

I told him I’d need to hire a good children’s book illustrator first.”

BOOM!

SilvrBk
Guest
SilvrBk
Offline

@Newgal : Men treat sex like a barometer of intimacy. Your problem is that you would be completely be able to understand this last sentence intellectually, but never feel it. So maybe i’m being a bit imprudent here, but when you are with your husband you are different to him then when you were with that asshole (assuming that your husband is a beta like most men are, nothing against him in particular). The saddest thing is, you wouldn’t realize it yourself unless you have a good capacity for self awareness (most women don’t). So the outrage here is your… Read more »

SilvrBk
Guest
SilvrBk
Offline

@Lucien : I don’t really believe that random sex is fulfilling in itself to these girls. They give it away because the price of pussy is low for alphas, and they think it’s as close as they can get to even a chance of commitment. But from the beginning that is what they really want You are mistaken and an FI meme. The answer to this is the guy in question and the woman’s age.(or what stage of life she is in). A doctor with a great car and a stable apartment who has got his shit together. A relationship… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Plate spinning teaches men how to build attraction on a regular basis. Equalist, blue-pill-based marriage teaches men to do the laundry, dishes, and lawn-mowing and somehow they’ll be rewarded with sex…

Given that perspective, can any woman honestly say they’d rather marry the blue-pill guy who has no habit of building attraction?

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately
Offline

It’s interesting how women understand the utilitarian nature of marriage and Pragma love when it comes to ‘settling’ and pursuing a monogamous relationship. Problem is once Eros is released from its chains it becomes the standard bearer for all relationships. Even the law and churches now demands that Eros be upheld as the governing virtue for relationships. Eros is a virtue now, Pragma isn’t enough anymore, according to the Cathedral men must be cajoled into constantly striving to incite Eros in their wives, anything else is abuse. The problem is Eros is unsustainable, unpredictable, volatile, moving, fleeting, addictive, destructive, irresponsible,… Read more »

melmoth
Guest
melmoth
Offline

Rollo’s link;

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/519009-resentful-about-so-many-years-crappy-sex

Scroll pretty far down for AAA-Grade Female Solipsism from Elaine567

melmoth
Guest
melmoth
Offline

Oh, man. There’s more than just Elaine. There are some real gems in there. It’s like all the RM principles written into the modern theater of internet forum dialogues.

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

That was a great post to learn from. Eros makes me think empty Bruce Springsteen DEVILS & DUST Album version I got my finger on the trigger But I don’t know who to trust When I look into your eyes There’s just devils and dust We’re a long, long way from home, Bobbie Home’s a long, long way from us I feel a dirty wind blowing Devils and dust I got God on my side And I’m just trying to survive What if what you do to survive Kills the things you love Fear’s a powerful thing, baby It can… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky
Offline

@Rollo: “I explained this in The Myth of the Good Guy, the man who somehow magically embodies the best of Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks isn’t believable to women, and in fact women don’t want those qualities in the same man at the same time – they want different men for different purposes. As such they don’t expect (or really even want) to find Mr. Perfect (perfect is boring). Solution: sample as many Alpha cocks as possible and/or as needed for as long as she’s able to outcompete her sexual rivals for that attention, settle on Mr. Good Enough for… Read more »

Hobbes
Guest
Hobbes
Offline

As to women not wanting the AF/BB in the same man I always look at it this way- they are mutually exclusive. the things that make the AF is the danger, the risk and the excitement- what makes the BB is his safety, his regularity and his reassurances. You cannot be exciting and comfortable at the same time- they are opposites. To be in the middle, to embody both is to be a watered down version of either. You will have none of the benefits of either. As a BB you will suck because you are too unsafe and as… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@Hobbes

The problem with the whole thing comes in where no guy, even the most Blue Pill motherfucker, wants to be the guy she has no enthusiasm for. No male wants to be the guy getting shitty/no sex without modern divorce rape. With it? Holy fuck what a bad deal that no man should ever take.

LiveFearless
Guest

@lucien @Sun Wukong From your comments: Lucien March 26th, 2015 at 12:07 pm @Newgal (lucien writes) I really don’t like the tone of the responses to your post, because I see your questions as being asked in good faith. I hope you don’t bail entirely on the “manosphere” despite that reaction. There’s a complex set of interlocking ideas here, and people who read this kind of stuff frequently probably start to see it as so intuitive that they forget what it looks like to a newcomer… (Sun Wukong writes) I do agree with Lucien where he said earlier “I do… Read more »

LiveFearless
Guest

@lucien you have written: I really don’t like the tone of the responses to your post, because I see your questions as being asked in good faith. The writer using the handle @newgal has written: Currently seeing someone who is into RP…. I’m caring, generous, I’ve never let a man pay my way or taken advantage of a mans finances and am extremely honest. My only mistake it seems is agreeing to be casual with a man I want a relationship from. I better put a stop to that now, I guess. Handle @newgal has “never” “let” (allowed) “a man”…… Read more »

LiveFearless
Guest

Please define good faith.

Hobbes
Guest
Hobbes
Offline

@Sun- of course. But that is where the FI comes in to sell men bullshit, equalist crap to bait the hook. As hypergamy becomes more open more men will see it for what it is. That’s why the conditioning starts early. No-one is going to tell the BB the truth, they give em the old Sandberg(?sp) treatment and tell them that they are now “exciting”, etc.
Men are adapting, as per the earlier comments about spinning plates- it’s a reaction to womens behavior, not the ideal for men.

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter
Offline

Hobbes – ” I think that a womans sexual frigidity/withholding is not an accident, it is a necessity to assure herself that you are the beta she needs.” And it’s also necessary to reassure herself she is not trading sex for money, and not being oppressed, not being subject to patriarchy, and not being limited in choices. The role of wife for the modern woman must be one of the more equal party. She must be the dominant half of the relationship to earn the merit badge. Her success in that is largely dependent on keeping the husband frustrated and… Read more »

%d bloggers like this: