Betas In Waiting

betas-in-waiting

I came across another familiar story on the TRP Reddit this week. It’s familiar because this story is becoming increasingly more common as Hypergamy becomes a more open secret that women can no longer keep under wraps.

For the better part of 2014, and in Preventive Medicine, I explored the social trend of Open Hypergamy and the impact it’s beginning to effect on contemporary western(ized) culture. In that exploration I published Saving the Best (another TRP link), a story which revolved around the increasingly more common post-Epiphany Phase “regrets” women have when their Party Years indiscretions are made evident to the Beta men who committed to them in monogamy or marriage.

Have a read of Saving the Best before you continue here, you’ll see the commonalities immediately. I’m going to dissect this “confession” a bit as I go, but bear in mind this woman’s predicament is the direct result of the unintentional Red Pill awareness that Open Hypergamy has brought men to – even uninitiated Beta men.

An update, for those asking for it. Here’s the link to my original post although the text has been deleted? Before I get into the details, I’d just like to say I greatly appreciate the support this community extended me. Believe it or not, I read every response.

As of this morning, we still hadn’t slept in the same bed or spoken more than 10 words to each other in passing. As I was waking up, he was walking in the front door with two coffees. He sat me down at our kitchen table and finally opened up to me.

Basically he feels that he was “conned” (his word) into the marriage, saying that he wouldn’t have even dated me, let alone married me, if he’d known what he knows now. His view of me has been irreparably changed and he no longer sees me “as someone worthy of being [his] wife”. (quoting him here… fucking prick) Beyond the sexual aspect, he says he no longer trusts me because I “kept something this big” from him our whole relationship.

One of the primary disconnects women are conditioned to believe during their Epiphany Phase is that a “good man” will be willing to forgive and forget her past indiscretions. On their journey of self-exploration and discovery women are encouraged to adopt a finely tuned cognitive dissonance with who they conveniently become and what should be the consequences of their pasts. While men are expected to live up to their responsibilities as men, and are expected to own up to the consequences of their failures, at the Epiphany Phase women are encouraged to convince themselves that they become someone else – someone who was “so different” from who she was in her Party Years.

Her husband feels “conned” because he was conned; conned after discovering the dual personality of his pre and post Epiphany Phase wife. What we’re expected to believe here (courtesy of the social conventions emplaced by the Feminine Imperative) is that her husband is some prudish, moralistic throwback unwilling to accept and embrace the “real” her – the one who was trying to “get it right” by turning over a new leaf with him. This is the easy, ready-to-use shame that women have available to them; if a man becomes indignant over a woman’s sexual past it translates into his insecurities as a man. His feeling conned over his bait & switch marriage is redirected to being his problem.

Men aren’t off the hook with that convenient convention either. There’s a moral high ground many men want to claim and cast the actions of a guy in this circumstance as virtuous and a proper revenge for being mislead. While that may feel good, men in this situation aren’t disillusioned with their ‘unworthy’ wives from a moral pretense, but rather that they believed they would be entitled to their wives’ sexual best reserved for him. As I quoted in Saving the Best, they “marry a whore who fucks like a prude.”

Subjectively that may or may not be the case, but it’s the freedom and genuine desire with which their wives had sex with prior (Alpha) lovers; desire that wasn’t based on material provisioning, emotional investment or the logistical hoops women expect their post-Epiphany “good men” to perform to in order to merit their sexual and intimate attentions. That’s the disconnect, that’s the con; Alpha Bad Boys get her 3-Way genuine sexual abandon with no investment expected, while he’s got to maintain ‘multiple businesses’ in order to get a prosaic sexual experience with her. The Bad Boys got her sexual best for free, while he’s expected to accept her as the ‘new’ post-Epiphany her…

Nothing I could do or say could convince him that these were past mistakes and not reflective of who I am today. He wasn’t angry with me, didn’t call me a slut or anything like that. Never once raised his voice. Part of me wishes he did, although I can’t exactly say why right now. It felt like I was being laid off from a job.

As I mentioned, the expectation is for her husband to accept “who she is today”, yet who she was ten years ago had a more genuine desire for less established, but sexually arousing, lovers. I’m going to speculate here, but it’s likely that a man who owns multiple businesses spent more of his time diligently and (I presume) responsibly cultivating those enterprises than the men his wife took as lovers ten years ago. Again, we can see that as a moral virtue on his part, but there’s a root indignation of what her past represents within the context of his (I assume) responsible past.

And like a good business owner he plays the confrontation calmly and collectedly. The part of her that wishes he’d raised his voice is the same part that got excited by the Alpha indifference of her former lovers.

So that’s it. We are getting divorced. My supposed life-partner turning his back on me without a second thought. He didn’t even have the decency to discuss it with me first – apparently he visited his lawyer during the week and “the process is in motion” (his words). Knowing him, there is absolutely no changing his mind.

My husband owns multiple businesses and wouldn’t get married without a prenup. I signed it, honest-to-god thinking we’d never, EVER have to use it. Well, he had the fucking document with him this morning. He said he’d pay off the remainder of my student loans, which he isn’t “legally obligated” to do. While I appreciate that, I am going to meet with my lawyer this week and see if the agreement can be challenged in court. We have built a life together, I gave him 5 of the best years of my life and I’ve been 100% faithful to him – I don’t fucking deserve to be tossed out like a piece of trash.

So that’s it. My life turned upside-down in the span of a week, over something I did 10+ YEARS AGO BEFORE I EVEN KNEW HIM. It’s fucking asinine. The thing is, even as I wrote the original post, in the back of my mind I knew he was through with me. He’s ended friendships and business partnerships over less.

Ghosts of Epiphanies Past

In Preventive Medicine I go into a bit of detail about men in this increasingly common circumstance. There is a subconscious expectation on the part of Beta men who find themselves at or just past women’s Epiphany Phase, that predisposes them to believing that what they’ve become as a result of their perseverance throughout their 20’s has now come to fruition and the women who ignored them then have now matured to a point where he’s the ‘sexy’ one at last.

Unless men have a moment of clarity or a Red Pill initiation of their own prior to this, what they don’t accept is that this expectation is a calculated conditioning of the Feminine Imperative to prepare him for women like this; women who can no longer sexually compete for the Alpha Fucks they enjoyed in their Party Years. The Feminine Imperative teaches him that he can expect a woman’s “real” sexual best from the “real” her – why else would she agree to a lifelong marriage if he weren’t the optimal choice to settle down with? Why wouldn’t she be even more sexual than in her past with the man she’s chosen to spend her life with and have children with?

That is the message the Feminine Imperative used to subtly and indirectly imply to Betas-in-waiting. Now with the comfort of Open Hypergamy this message is published in best selling books by influential women:

“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead

Not to belabor Sandberg yet again (she has been hocking the tired out Choreplay meme recently), but this is essentially the outline of the script we’re reading in this woman’s lament. She’s essentially followed Sandberg’s advice only to find that her Beta-in-waiting bought into the same script too. The problem for her is that he took the “nothing’s sexier” part to heart only to find that someone else was sexier long before she’d convinced him otherwise.

For what it’s worth, fem-centrism has far less to fear from the manosphere revealing the ugly Red Pill truths about Hypergamy and more to worry about from pridefully self-indulgent women gleefully explaining it to the general populace themselves. Roosh had a tweet this week with what would likely have been the attitude of our subject wife ten odd years ago:

https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/580169533253636096

The more common Open Hypergamy becomes and the more proudly it’s embraced by the whole of women the less effective shaming men into acceptance of it will be. However, I thought it was entertaining when the counter-comments on Saving the Best questioned how common this situation really was or else thought it was trolling.

I think it’s much more prevalent than most men would like to admit. Perhaps not as dramatic as this example, but far more common for a majority of men who’ve tacitly accepted that the woman they married (or paired with) gave her best to her prior lovers and are too personally or family invested to extricate themselves from her after they’ve realized it. That investment necessitates them convincing themselves of the pre-planned memes the Feminine Imperative has prepared for them – that they are doing the right thing by forcing that dissonance out of their minds.

A lot of Betas-in-waiting like to claim a personal sense of vindication about their successfully pairing and breeding with women who they believe are (and were) their SMV evaluate equals once those women have “got it out of their system” with regards to self-discovery and Alpha indiscretions. In a sense they’re correct; often enough these are the men who gratefully embrace a woman’s intimate acceptance of him precisely at the point when his SMV has matured to match this woman’s declining SMV. I call this crossover the comparative SMV point in my SMV graph.

Print

Even women on the down-slide of their SMV like to encourage the idea that their post-Epiphany decision to marry the Plan B Beta provider (long term orbiter) is evidence of their newly self-discovered maturity. How could they have been so foolish and not seen how the perfect guy for her had been there all along? That consideration gratifies the ego of a Beta who’s been hammered flat by rejection or mediocre experiences with women up to that point.

The primary reason I spent the last year compiling Preventive Medicine was to help men see past the compartmentalization of women’s phases of maturity, but also to help them see past their own immediate interpretations of those phases as they’re experiencing them. Long term sexual and intimate deprivation (i.e. Thirst) will predispose men to convincing themselves of the part they believe they should play in the social conventions of the Feminine Imperative. Their own cognitive dissonance is a small, subliminal price to pay when they believe they’re finally being rewarded with a woman who’s now ready to give him her best.

What inspired me to this post was reading a cutesy photo-meme on Facebook. The syrupy message was “My only regret was not meeting you sooner so we could spend more of our lives together” superimposed over some kids in black & white holding a rose. Then it hit me, this was a message a guy was posting to his girlfriend; the one he’d met after his second divorce was finalized. What he didn’t want to think about was that if he’d met her sooner she’d have been too busy “discovering herself” to have anything to do with him.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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rugby11ljh
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That last part hits the spot

The Diplomat
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@Rollo

Maybe the next book should be a RP primer illustrated by a children’s book specialist. BUT it should be aimed at boys 12-16–and not women. Young males on the verge of dating would be well served to know some red pill truths sooner than later. Especially effective if wrapped in humor and age appropriate SMP truths. I truly wish I’d had such a resource at that age.

Of course, MSM crucifixion would be a given.

LiveFearless
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@The Diplomat Great idea! That would change it all for the rest of those boys lives. Think of the legacy they will leave on the whole world. Your idea is like giving boys height they’ll keep throughout their lives: One of my doctors has a foundation that provides Human Growth Hormone to height-challenged children that would otherwise not have access to such natural, modern wonders that have no negative side effects. At present, MSM has enjoyed the luxury of being silent about the success of ”The Rational Male (Volume 1)” by Rollo Tomassi and, so far, they’ve ignored that ”The… Read more »

Bromeo
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@LiveFearless

I skip and don’t even read your posts anymore, your like a broken record with advertising/promotional spam.

Forge the Sky
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@Lucien – “I think it goes under-appreciated that girls are not necessarily getting a lot out of being banged out by players for their entire 20s. Sure, they put a good face on it, especially while they’re in culturally-assisted denial. But subtle realities suggest they are merely going along with a horrible cultural script written by feminists. Feminism is so bad that it doesn’t even serve the interests of (most) women.” This reminded me of a post on Stingray’s blog where she compared articles by two women – One of whom had just gotten married young to a man she… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Re: AF:BB being basically mutually exclusive: I’ve talked a bit about this before with my whole ‘women see men as two seperate genders’ concept. And there’s no escaping it, exactly. The only solution is to be as Alpha as you can be, while not being so hard an asshole as to make things unsustainable. I wonder if the best way to balance this in an LTR is to simply be unpredictable; kind of like what Rollo was talking about in his post ‘your friend menstruation.’ I also wonder why we men are called to be expert emotional acrobats just to… Read more »

honeycombe
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Apparently the congresswoman isn’t aware they are doing this to themselves (ie “th wimminz”) already. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/26/congresswoman-claims-climate-change-will-turn-women-into-prostitutes/ Congresswoman Claims Climate Change Will Turn Women Into Prostitutes On Wednesday, California Democrat Barbara Lee proposed a resolution in the House of Representatives that claims women will eventually be forced into prostitution in order to obtain life-sustaining food and water for their families. Pull quote … “Women will disproportionately face harmful impacts from climate change,” Lee’s resolution reads. It continues claiming, “Food insecure women with limited socioeconomic resources may be vulnerable to situations such as sex work, transactional sex, and early marriage that put… Read more »

Hobbes
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@honeycombe- you underestimate her intention. I doubt she cares one whit about climate change, this is a way to get women the right to food, water and healthcare at the expense of men. Men are all potential johns, didn’t you know?
I can hear it now “we have to pass a bill guaranteeing food/shelter and access to medicine for women, or else they’ll become victims of evil male predators. We cant fix the climate, but we can fix these despicable men who are to blame anyway.”

Jeremy
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@Forge the Sky

When I went to that page on Stingrays blog and read the happy woman’s post… I couldn’t help but be struck by a number of beta behaviors that she claims her new husband has done for her. I also couldn’t help but notice her nearly outright confess to receiving some emotional neglect from her parents (which means her judgement w.r.t. herself and men should be suspect). While the contrast is interesting… the “happily married” couple on first blush appears to be less solid than I might have hoped for.

Nathan
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Women don’t want 1 schizophrenic man -hey I’m Alpha super alpha AND you’re supplicating host slave beta too- fuck no. That’s not going to happen.

Pick one. Be that and nothing else

Badpainter
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I’d like to note that this post rests on the grand deception of the “past is in the past.” The epiphany girls use this to disarm criticism of past indiscretions obviously, but they also use it to excuse all manner present stupidity. If the “past is in the past” then all previous instances of abuse, and victimization are rendered invalid as excuses. If the each day starts with a clean slate then all past achievements, failures, rights and wrongs are completely irrelevant to the new day. As well, any learned preferences or distastes would be wiped clean. If she didn’t… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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Every time I get away from passed behavior I think of this guy and read a bit on him Simo Häyhä
http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/simohayha.asp

Stingray
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Jeremy,

A woman who loves and respects her husband with be grateful for those behaviors. When she doesn’t love and respect those behaviors but they are present she speaks like this and this.

I can’t remember word for word what Rollo says but it’s something like, Alpha is a state of mind, not a set of behaviors.

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Someone just shared this somewhere
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6714280

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

Cases like that are why I often say that psychological health can be more important than physical health. Nothing is more dangerous than a human body running out of control.

Stingray
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rugy11jh,

That distrust of women comes from men’s own experiences, and women get mad at men for those experiences rather than the women who lied and/or exaggerated the situations in the first place. We’ve so brainwashed men that they don’t even trust their own experiences any more. What’s more, we make them feel guilty for even having them.

It’s our power and women are going to get pissed when men learn to take it away.

Stingray
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Apologies for spelling your handle wrong.

rugby11ljh
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Hey brother stingray don’t aplogize
My uncle got divorce twice and told me one thing that lead me to Rollo
(Don’t ever lose your male friends)

Badpainter
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@ Stingray Don’t worry about us not trusting our own experiences or being brainwashed. We’ve got coping mechanisms, that develope from that experience: 1. We know “bitches be crazy” 2. We know women feel rather than think. 3. We know y’all are gonna stab us in back at the first opportunity. 4. We know not to let y’all get to close. 5. We know y’all just tingle for jerks and assholes. Experience gives us this default AWALT knowledge. It’s then up to y’all to prove every single day that NAWALT, and even caution is our watch word. Really we want… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@rugby

Uh, Stingray would be a sister, sir.

@Badpainter

1. We know “bitches be crazy”

http://cdn.funniestmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/Funniest_Memes_got-that-bitch-a-spatula_17645.jpeg

Mr T.
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I remember reading Rollo warning about the 7 year mark of marriage, I think there should be 2 marks, one after 7 years and one when a woman crossing her 40s.

Last night I watch a 1955 movie with Vivien Leigh , the deep blue sea.

It’s about perfect is boring , BB/AF.
Rollo, you’ve got to watch it.

Stingray
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rubgy11jh,

I am quite flattered, but full for full disclosure, I’m a woman.

Badpainter,

I know you all here are well aware of that. Far, far too many men do not trust that gut instinct.

You all should want quite a bit and why this is so hard for so many women to understand after being dumped over and over again is amazing to me.

rugby11ljh
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Thanks Sun for clarifying
Alright sting pleasant to meet you

Mr T.
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Stingray.
Feminists would love to have you court Martial -ed on the charges of high treason.

rugby11ljh
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That brings up a good point. Not only is perfect boring but being real is treason socially.

Stingray
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rugby11jh,

Likewise.

Mr. T,

I take that as a compliment.

Mr T.
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Is open hypergamy self-defeating?

sgtted
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How many times have you been with a woman who’s “empowered” by being an empathetic, thoughtful, intimate, occasionally logical partner to a man? Who accepts that he has priorities, perhaps contradictory impulses to hers? Who takes pride in his unwillingness to supplicate and “Yes, dear …” his way through life?

I have a GF like this right now. It’s a breath of fresh air after what I went through with my Ex. I keep my distance, while appreciating her when we’re together and she wants to sex me up, too. So refreshing.

Stingray
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The more Open Hypergamy spreads, the more men are aware of the game, I think hilarity is going to ensue because of this. Women honestly still believe that men should and will just tow the line with this, accept it for what they want and play along. When men don’t and then use this Open Hypergamy against women, that they themselves have made open and they discover that, yet again, men aren’t just going to be there like they expect (where are all the good and chivalrous men?!) it’s going to be interesting. I wonder what kind of restrictions they… Read more »

Badpainter
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Stingray – “I wonder what kind of restrictions they will want from the fallout of this?”

I’d worry less about that than the creative genius of millions of disgruntled free agents individually, and without an open agenda, subverting the system just by trying survive within it.

StringsofCoins
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@Sun, If you are interested I was set up with my second woman through church and met her last night. A second fat, post wall, post CC, single mom. At least this one belongs to the church and I’m not being used to try to bring her back to the faith. The level of entitlement that these horrible women have just boggles the mind. I did delight in showing her pictures of me with two of my plates from the past year. Both not fat, ten plus years her junior, and not single moms. She said nothing about it. She… Read more »

downunder
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@ StringofCoins

Spin plates metaphorically. Meet any and all kinds of women. “Unicorns” are not only in church, and maybe they are extinct…
Anything can be plausible.

TuffLuv
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@stingray “Women honestly still believe that men should and will just tow the line with this, accept it for what they want and play along.” I dunno, I kinda think honing and applying game is sort of going along. Hypergamy — Game are complimentary it seems. I think each one feeds off the other. I know your point is that we men won’t play along with the beta-in-waiting part of it. But I think there are and always will be plenty of hard up desperate suckers left. Plus, what I think is interesting are the number of post-50 divorces we’re… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Jeremy – My point in posting that wasn’t to demonstrate an exemplary RP relationship, just to demonstrate how much of a difference it makes for a woman’s happiness and contentment to just settle down early with a man instead of riding the CC. It’s less relevant for men figuring out how to create a good relationship. I recognize that some of the stuff she’s saying in the article might not be the most helpful for a recovering BP beta. That said, I cautiously agree with Stingray here that alpha is a mindset, not a set of behaviors. And women will… Read more »

Glenn
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Spinning plates is the only way I can keep from developing Oneitis. As well, when one of them fucks with me or flakes I immediately turn my attention to another woman and my hurt or frustration with the offending plate goes away. It also helps me remain cool with the other plates as I’m never desperate. My new favorite word is “Next”. Even more to the point is that it made me realize women are replaceable. One is just as good as another. Really. I was shocked the first time I realized this and it makes me think that training… Read more »

Glenn
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I also had the same exact thought when I heard about the copilot crashing the Germanwings jet. Fuck, we have to reach more men!! Rollo, you really do save lives.

I’m left asking myself how could a Blue Pill guy not be depressed into today’s clonw-car world?

rugby11ljh
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I grew up Mormon and was beating the hell up for developing any alpha part of myself the women I grew up with massacred me and had fun banging dudes on my bed growing up. Religion can be the worst place to learn about actual things that apply to life. One thing I did was visit someone with 14 to 16 wife’s out in Colorado city in Utah not sure the exact number because it may have changed but the man of the house was able to keep his harm of women down. Eerie yet fascinating it would be an… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@StringsofCoins In my experience, church is where fat women find more acceptance than anywhere else, largely due to “you should have unconditional love for me just as God does” style shaming. Honestly not surprised to hear them chucking their hambeasts at the new guy. Sorry to hear it’s not working out that great for you so far; I pretty much root for guys on here to succeed with whatever plan they come up with, but in my experience the church is about the same or worse than the rest of the world for quality of women. It’s unfortunate you’re getting… Read more »

redlight
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“However the alpha bad boys who would bang girls in the shower and talk about it at scout camp everyone remembers…”

and what that scout told us after sneaking back to our tent and getting our ratings on her was “you don’t fuck the face”

which I pointed out was an option

Scotty
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Badpainter: And no one is worse at this “past is the past” shit than White Knight/Betas…they are the FIRST online and in person who do the whole “holy shit grow up dude, she has a past, so do you, etc etc”. First, they almost ONLY say or do that when they are in front of women, a prime rule for White Knightedry, you have to be SEEN putting on your defense. They know in reality they won’t be getting laid by these female onlookers, but it makes them feel a sense or righteousness and one-ups-manship that they could never get… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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To expand a bit – Women generally don’t understand what it is about a man that makes her feel happy – she just feels happy, and sometimes gushes about it. It’s like a magic trick to her. And as a man, she expects you to ‘just get’ how to perform it. It’s part of the business of the RP to teach men who don’t naturally ‘get it’ how to pull this off. Not so much in order to make women happy, but to create relationships which are more satisfying and productive for the man – indeed, as soon as you… Read more »

kfg
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“you should have unconditional love for me just as God does”

Right, and you should do as I command you or be turned into a pillar of salt, as God would.

Funny how they always forget that part.

Lucien
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“what I think is interesting are the number of post-50 divorces we’re seeing.. These older women seem to like being alone into their golden years.” This is one thing that puzzles me still . . . given everything we’re saying about women’s decline in sexual value over time, why would post-35 yo women be divorcing at all? How could they possibly expect to get any male attention? And why are they doing it if they’re not going to get any; if they’re going to come out so much worse than the man? “Even more to the point is that it… Read more »

LiveFearless
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…copilot crashing the Germanwings jet. Fuck, we have to reach more men!!

Rollo, you really do save lives.

~Glenn

It’s only preventive medicine if you can pass along the warning…

I wanted a book for the ‘everyman’ – one that a guy working in a garage might find accessible, or one a soldier deployed in a very unfamiliar, inhospitable place might take along with him…

It’s preventive medicine, not a cure for any particular disease

~Rollo Tomassi
“The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine” (Volume 2)

kfg
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Lucien: I find myself wondering why the bottom line isn’t, “What do I think about her? What value is she to me?”

Which is really not about her, but about how you percieve your own value.

LiveFearless
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Fuck, we have to reach more men!! Rollo, you really do save lives.

~Glenn

Jaquie said, “I
wish you had a book out
with all of this stuff in it
so I could give it to him.
He’s very
Beta and whipped,

but if I had a book
to put in his hands
he would read it.”

So it is
for the sons
of Jaquie’s
that I decided
to put this book out…

There’s a certain
power
and
legitimacy
that the printed word has
that a blog or some
online article lacks

~Rollo Tomassi
“The Rational Male” (Volume 1)

Anonymous Reader
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Lena Dunham at it again: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/03/30/dog-or-jewish-boyfriend-a-quiz Relevant text: ,i>17. When I get home from the business trip, he ignores me for hours, sometimes days, forcing me to wonder whether he would be better off with a woman who has a less demanding career. “Why don’t you find some catalogue model who just sits around all day and rubs your back? I bet you’d like that,” I hiss. “I apologize for my many accomplishments. I’m sorry they mean nothing to you.” Modern woman can’t understand why things that attract her to a man are different from what might attract a man… Read more »

StringsofCoins
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Bill Clinton was and is a huge mangina. Raised by a single mom and during his presidency he championed the Bradley amendment. He clearly hates men so Hillary is a great fit for him. @rugby, Sorry to hear that. This church does seem to desire to raise a horde of betas. I’m not interested in that. I’ll see how it continues to go. I did have an interesting conversation last week with three other men. One guy clearly gets TRP and we steered the conversation to how to make sure your (future) wife doesn’t get fat and isn’t a feminist.… Read more »

Badpainter
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Stringsofcoins – “If things continue us men will have to use our power to fix things. And our power is violence. Nobody wants that.” “You can’t always get what you want, but if you try real hard you might find you get what you need.” – Mick and the boys Violence is a bit like starvation, if you don’t experience it in extremis you start to mistake other things for it. Violent language is not assault, hunger pangs are not starvation. One aspect of masculine violence that is under appreciated is the psychological trick of defining us vs. them. And… Read more »

redlight
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“This is one thing that puzzles me still . . . given everything we’re saying about women’s decline in sexual value over time, why would post-35 yo women be divorcing at all?” They don’t listen to a word we say. They listen to experts like Robin Korth and expect to be dating Richard Gere who will fly them to Paris or Italy for love and romance (date a 20 year old and you can meet for coffee and pay for your own, date 50 year old pussy and they want extensive travel on your dime, so cute). Articles and books… Read more »

Excalibur
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“Modern woman can’t understand why things that attract her to a man are different from what might attract a man to her.” It’s incredible how much young women are oblivious to what makes them attractive to men. I’ve had young women boast to me that they are admittedly bitches and when in the company of men, the men forget that she is a woman and treat and talk to her like she is “one of the boys”, thinking like it’s a positive attribute to have for being attractive to men. Clueless. Being a bitch and having a bad attitude is… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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you know what this women wrote a book on being a women that many young women could benefit from its about she reaches close to death yet understood her hypergamy and how weird the world was in the time she wrote it around 1970 I may be mistaken (side note) great book on accepting death as a gift in being alive and fighting a culture that kills you.

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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We’ll that’s funny it’s called the measure of my days http://www.amazon.com/The-Measure-Days-Florida-Scott-Maxwell/dp/0140051643

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . like it’s a positive attribute to have for being attractive to men. Clueless.”

Note my first response to Newgal: “I am not sexually attracted to men.”
You can say this right their faces and look deep into their eyes as they don’t “just get it.”

Nathan
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Rollo can you top this.

meat not milk. The end to the diagnosis and the new transcendent level.

new wine in new wineskins

Scotty
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Re: Women in their 50s getting divorced. From what I’ve seen here in the DC area, where there are “power couples” and even second-tier power couples (both have grad degrees, making good cash), it is the MEN that are dumping their wives, because at that point, the kids are grown, alimony won’t be too much of an issue (either in VA or MD), given the near equal pay/jobs, and getting rid of her and out of your life isn’t as hard as a 30 year old guy with two screaming kids at home and a mortgage. I keep running into… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Excalibur

I’ve had women proudly and gleefully state: “I’m definitely high-maintenance” on a date.

“Good thing I’m not paying tonight,” said the man in response to the shit test.

rugby11ljh
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Scotty those very women in this area give amazing shit test
It’s why I do my best to keep to myself

Sun Wukong
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@rugby

No shit test is “amazing” once you realize they’re all (as in 100% of them) coming from the mentality of a 16 year old girl.

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Sun I realize that but it’s so freaking overwhelming in the dc md va area.
By the way this is a great video showing male alpha behavior that my environment raped and beating out of me. No excuses no blame just hard work. That goes with any shit test as well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jaLfxfpsmtY

‘’c’h’okmah
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@Rollo (from previous post): “Why does it still feel ‘wrong’ to be an asshole to women when that’s what women directly or indirectly reward men for? Most Blue Pill guys will still cling to that Nice Guy script even after it’s been proven to them that women love Jerks. It feels wrong to act like the Jerk. Why?” Upon studying the wild horse herds in the federal lands of Nevada, one will come to realize that the greatest threat to a young colt, other than predation, is being cast from the herd by the matriarch. She does this by staring… Read more »

Jeremy
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I am slightly paranoid, no need to deny it. This makes me entirely unwilling to accept the “dumped boyfriend crashed his airliner” story from the MSM. I’ve never heard of a pilot being thrown under the bus that fast after a crash. It reeks like a manufactured explanation. Not that the story is unbelievable… just the timing. Accident investigators are true professionals. They have to be, loved ones and lawsuits hinge on them getting it right, and telling those who lost people the truth of what happened the first time (you do not get a second chance at telling someone… Read more »

Badpainter
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@ Jeremy

The Elliot Rodger explanation works because it satisfies the need to blame the co-pilot without getting all defensive about shaming the mentally ill, or exciting paranoia about converts to Islam, or focusing on bureaucratic failures. It’s the Ockam’s Razor of explanations that also serves the goals of the FI. It might also be true. We’ll never know for sure in this PC environment.

Macbeth
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I don’t think the manosphere would be advocating spinning plates if it wasn’t a viable option. Today’s women help make that viable by being so fucking loose. In days of yore, monogamy and wifing up “quality” women (i.e., young virgins) worked, and a ruling (Alpha) hand in marriage made monogamy mostly viable. Those days have changed. Many of us aren’t actually that happy with spinning plates, but have bitterly come to the conclusion we may as well because the love we always thought we were getting from women is illusory/reflective of that unconditional love we quest for since birth.

Jeremy
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@StringsofCoins How can women, with so much power, have such an incredibly poor understanding of men? I’m guessing female duality is what makes it so hard. Women live in a world where they are physically weaker, and they have a sexual strategy that requires guile and covert behavior to even work correctly. As a result of these conditions, their entire mindset is one of attempting to get what they want as smoothly and stealthily as possible, using misdirection and temptation. They also either want to, or outright default to thinking that men are worthy of their respect. Whether that’s really… Read more »

Mr T.
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@jeremy&bp

Had that nut beta pilot (seen his phoro?)was loved by a mother or a girl friend, I doubt he’d crash his plane.

‘’c’h’okmah
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Try this on for size. You are the male. Your reality is what you make it. You literally have the ability to SPEAK it into existence… literally, through your words. Please be responsible with this, for your own wellbeing (and the rest of us).

I know that is mind bending.

But think about it. There is a reason I don’t share more. But you are clearly right on the cusp. Take it to its edge… but, responsibly, yo, for all of us, ok.

With great power, comes great responsibility.

Sun Wukong
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@Jeremy With how slow reasons usually are to come out, it makes me more certain that was actually the reason the plane when down. A lot of times trying to analyze some sort of failure or another, there’s a few possible interpretations of telemetry data that was captured. If some dude was having a major emotional break down alone in the cockpit, and telemetry + audio confirm that’s what went wrong, then it’s pretty open and shut. Far more clear cut than mechanical failures or vague circumstances of pilot error. The speed of publicizing the cause on this one actually… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@StringsofCoins I’m actually kind of offended that these people would think that I am stupid and blue enough to desire any interaction at all with these horrible low value women. Actually I can tell you exactly why you shouldn’t be at all: remember we live in a femcentric society. It affects everywhere as you’re finding. When you look at it that way it becomes really apparent they’re considering you at all except as an opportunity for her. They’re looking 100% from the point of view of a woman they’ve known for a while. They’ve given exactly zero thought to if… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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^
When you look at it that way it becomes really apparent they’re not considering you

Sorry for the typo.

rugby11ljh
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What a great gilft
Try this on for size. You are the male. Your reality is what you make it. You literally have the ability to SPEAK it into existence… literally, through your words. Please be responsible with this, for your own wellbeing (and the rest of us).

I know that is mind bending.

But think about it. There is a reason I don’t share more. But you are clearly right on the cusp. Take it to its edge… but, responsibly, yo, for all of us, ok.

With great power, comes great responsibility.

The Diplomat
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Gentlemen, please keep the mystical, obtuse shit talk to a minimum. This is, after all, the “RATIONAL” male. Thank you for your rationality.

The Diplomat
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@‘’c’h’okmah

Talk sensibly, logically, and in quantifiable and cohesive terms or STFU. Thank you.

melmoth
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@Bromeo,

Were you serious about ‘Live Fearless’ or is there some humor going on there?

If you were serious, then you should check out the name of this website, then check out the name of the book, then check the release date. You’ve got those three bits of information, put your mind to it and see what you can come up with.

melmoth
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@C’h’okmah,

Nice horse story. What happens when the ‘matriarch’ horse gets so fat that she can barely walk? Do the colts start to explore other options or behave differently? What happens in horseland when the females spend too much time at the trough?

@Badpainter

“It’s the Ockam’s Razor of explanations that also serves the goals of the FI.”

–Great line and very astute.

rugby11ljh
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Fuck that reads so well. Having a hard time not laughing in public. Back to rationality

Stingray
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@Badpainter, I’d worry less about that than the creative genius of millions of disgruntled free agents individually, and without an open agenda, subverting the system just by trying survive within it. I do worry about this, too. However, if this system was simply left alone, it would eventually work itself out. When the system is artificially forced, which is what the feminists count on, it only gets worse and worse. @TuffLuv I kinda think honing and applying game is sort of going along. Hypergamy — Game are complimentary it seems. I think each one feeds off the other. I know… Read more »

Jeremy
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@Stingray What women are demanding, is literally impossible. Actually, it is possible. Again Rollo’s most repeated line, “For one side’s sexual strategy to succeed, the other sides sexual strategy must be compromised or abandoned.” The beta’s in waiting scenario is a mass delusion put upon men to convince them that the ideal world would have them abandon their own sexual strategy. Men appreciate idealism, so this is a seductive delusion for them. For the natural alpha’s, there is no compromise, they get all the hot sex with the younger girls they want. So yes, what women are demanding is *possible*,… Read more »

Lucien
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Haha this is hilarious and telling…

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/mar/27/lena-dunham-new-yorker-article-jews-dogs

“Others on social media questioned the magazine’s editorial judgement. “Did no New Yorker editor ponder the wisdom of literally comparing Jews to dogs?””

Well, they didn’t think of it that way…they thought of it as comparing men</i? to dogs, which is of course perfectly acceptable and even insightful.

StringsofCoins
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@Jeremy, I think you are correct. It would explain my interactions with women to a great degree. Especially with my ex wife. It’s critically important to me to teach my son that women are natural dissemblers and it is best to never believe anything they say. Indeed they even do seen to dissemble to themselves. I suppose to function in such a mental state, where duplicity is paramount to survival, that there would be advantage to be gained by fully believing your own lies. With women operating in such a state naturally I really have trouble seeing how any women… Read more »

Softek
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This is all I have to say for now:

Rattlesnake Shake from Fleetwood Mac, back in the day with Peter Green:

“Now, I know this guy
His name is Mick
Now he don’t care
When he ain’t go no chick
He do the shake
The rattlesnake shake
Yes, he do the shake
And jerks away the blues”

Stingray
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Jeremy, I get what you are saying and, on the surface, I agree. However, the AF/BB dichotomy that women are demanding, while women are getting this, they are still utterly confused as to why they aren’t happy. Why they aren’t attracted to the nice man they married and still long for the Alpha she spent a short time with years ago. What I argue women want, that is impossible, is the nice, good man whom they will be highly sexually attracted to. A man who will do their bidding, “respect” them, do the chores, wait on her, paint her toes… Read more »

StringsofCoins
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@Lucien,

Why do you care what this Dunham person thinks or states about anything at all? She seems like a harpy and is ugly to boot. I really have no idea why anyone cares one whit about this woman. She seems to be a woman who has cast aside the best parts of femininity to make room to poorly mimic the worst parts of masculinity. A person to be pitied, perhaps, but taken seriously?

Jeremy
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@StringsofCoins …I really have trouble seeing how any women could possibly lead, directly lead, at all. I wonder, with enough study and a proper upbringing, if women could become self aware of their own dissembling and duplicitous nature and hence function with a rational mind. And if any man would find such a masculine minded woman attractive? Well, women don’t generally lead like men do, for one. However, that’s not satisfying because there clearly are some women who can be good leaders of men (though exceedingly rare they are). For that I would simply appeal to the greatest human attribute…… Read more »

StringsofCoins
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@Stingray, What I’ve seen women do to fulfill this strategy is polyandry. They will get married to their beta and cheat on him with their alphas until they get caught. They then divorce rape their beta and take away his children. Other then absolutely refusing to be a beta supporter what do you suggest we do? Even refusing to be a beta supporter isn’t feasible as the government will take our money by threat of violence and transfer it to the women, forcing us to be beta providers for all women. I guess the only answer is spinning plates or… Read more »

Stingray
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Other then absolutely refusing to be a beta supporter what do you suggest we do?

I suggest that you decide what is important to you and set goals and work towards whatever that is. Yes, the FI makes that more difficult today, but not impossible.

Jeremy
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@Stingray, Well now that you’ve painted specifics, yes, I’d say that man is impossible. Is this a case of NAWALT? Your picture is fairly specific, not that it’s wrong. Keep in mind, that it is not entirely clear that women understand their own capacity to love. It’s quite possible that women also subject themselves to the belief that they can love men idealistically. This likely explains part of the distortion of women’s thinking when they’re young. When women are young, all men want them, period. Male biology dictates this to be the case, it’s just a happy accident thrown on… Read more »

Stingray
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What I’ve seen women do to fulfill this strategy is polyandry. Secondly, while women will do this to fulfill this strategy, I think women are happier not getting everything they want. They are happier not having the beta feels at the same time as the alpha feels. When we are somewhat off kilter, when we are uneasy with the alpha, and we have to work for him, this is when we are at our happiest. We’re not bored, we get to do what we are good at in a fashion that is actually healthy by working to keep a man… Read more »

Glenn
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A little more Lena for your viewing pleasure. “33. One spring afternoon, we walked to Dumbo to check out a new artisanal-Popsicle stand, when we ran into my friend Jill. Jill is actually more of an acquaintance—I don’t know her well, but I really like her; she curates high-end terrariums and she’s a clog designer on the side. She’s really slim and well dressed, in an all-American, J. Crew-model sort of way. He was immediately all over her, panting and making a fool of himself. It was humiliating. Because here’s the thing: I am not a Jill. I will never… Read more »

Stingray
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Jeremy, AWALT. The only time NAWALT applies is in a woman’s behavior. Never in her nature. Lest someone reading gets the idea of lesbains and asexuals or whatever else, these women are irrelevant to this discussion. I do believe that women think they love the same as men do. Women hold men to the ideal and want to reach that ideal. But since we cannot inherently understand the ideal, we bastardize it. We take the worst of the male nature and combine it with the worst of our own nature and run with that claiming that it is somehow superior.… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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Could someone please explain what black knighting is because I may have done it once.

Anonymous Reader
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Why do you care what this Dunham person thinks or states about anything at all? She seems like a harpy and is ugly to boot. I really have no idea why anyone cares one whit about this woman. She seems to be a woman who has cast aside the best parts of femininity to make room to poorly mimic the worst parts of masculinity. A person to be pitied, perhaps, but taken seriously? Lena Doughgirl is a very clear and obvious example of the modern woman, that’s why it’s worth paying attention to her. But only in the form of… Read more »

Glenn
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I care about Dunham because she’s a minstrel of propaganda who reflects the ideology which our elite, prog-marxist overlords subscribe to. Cloistered in “super-zips” in which their politics prodminate (in super zips over 70% identify as progressive or liberal, 11% as conservative with the rest being moonbat leftist communists and anarchists and such), they really live inside an echo chamber. Culture, particularly the cheesy, tawdry, cheap pop-culture posing as edgy, is easy for them to grasp. It takes no effort, no deep reflection, no instead it smashes you in the head and is easy to get as a fart. I’m… Read more »

LiveFearless
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Hey Glenn: Correct.
Dunham affects behavior.

Sun Wukong
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@Stingray Rollo has written time and again (and I’m inclined to agree) that women don’t actually believe their impossible standard for a man is possible. It’s the entire reason AFBB is so prevalent. What’s worse though is that between the extreme entitlement of the modern Princess complex and the fact that they blame men for not being able to make the standard real (instead of learning to have realistic standards), they pretty much consider us lower than dirt. @Glenn “Regardless, up close and personal contact with the hipsters due to my playing around the music scene down there convinced me… Read more »

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