Betas In Waiting

betas-in-waiting

I came across another familiar story on the TRP Reddit this week. It’s familiar because this story is becoming increasingly more common as Hypergamy becomes a more open secret that women can no longer keep under wraps.

For the better part of 2014, and in Preventive Medicine, I explored the social trend of Open Hypergamy and the impact it’s beginning to effect on contemporary western(ized) culture. In that exploration I published Saving the Best (another TRP link), a story which revolved around the increasingly more common post-Epiphany Phase “regrets” women have when their Party Years indiscretions are made evident to the Beta men who committed to them in monogamy or marriage.

Have a read of Saving the Best before you continue here, you’ll see the commonalities immediately. I’m going to dissect this “confession” a bit as I go, but bear in mind this woman’s predicament is the direct result of the unintentional Red Pill awareness that Open Hypergamy has brought men to – even uninitiated Beta men.

An update, for those asking for it. Here’s the link to my original post although the text has been deleted? Before I get into the details, I’d just like to say I greatly appreciate the support this community extended me. Believe it or not, I read every response.

As of this morning, we still hadn’t slept in the same bed or spoken more than 10 words to each other in passing. As I was waking up, he was walking in the front door with two coffees. He sat me down at our kitchen table and finally opened up to me.

Basically he feels that he was “conned” (his word) into the marriage, saying that he wouldn’t have even dated me, let alone married me, if he’d known what he knows now. His view of me has been irreparably changed and he no longer sees me “as someone worthy of being [his] wife”. (quoting him here… fucking prick) Beyond the sexual aspect, he says he no longer trusts me because I “kept something this big” from him our whole relationship.

One of the primary disconnects women are conditioned to believe during their Epiphany Phase is that a “good man” will be willing to forgive and forget her past indiscretions. On their journey of self-exploration and discovery women are encouraged to adopt a finely tuned cognitive dissonance with who they conveniently become and what should be the consequences of their pasts. While men are expected to live up to their responsibilities as men, and are expected to own up to the consequences of their failures, at the Epiphany Phase women are encouraged to convince themselves that they become someone else – someone who was “so different” from who she was in her Party Years.

Her husband feels “conned” because he was conned; conned after discovering the dual personality of his pre and post Epiphany Phase wife. What we’re expected to believe here (courtesy of the social conventions emplaced by the Feminine Imperative) is that her husband is some prudish, moralistic throwback unwilling to accept and embrace the “real” her – the one who was trying to “get it right” by turning over a new leaf with him. This is the easy, ready-to-use shame that women have available to them; if a man becomes indignant over a woman’s sexual past it translates into his insecurities as a man. His feeling conned over his bait & switch marriage is redirected to being his problem.

Men aren’t off the hook with that convenient convention either. There’s a moral high ground many men want to claim and cast the actions of a guy in this circumstance as virtuous and a proper revenge for being mislead. While that may feel good, men in this situation aren’t disillusioned with their ‘unworthy’ wives from a moral pretense, but rather that they believed they would be entitled to their wives’ sexual best reserved for him. As I quoted in Saving the Best, they “marry a whore who fucks like a prude.”

Subjectively that may or may not be the case, but it’s the freedom and genuine desire with which their wives had sex with prior (Alpha) lovers; desire that wasn’t based on material provisioning, emotional investment or the logistical hoops women expect their post-Epiphany “good men” to perform to in order to merit their sexual and intimate attentions. That’s the disconnect, that’s the con; Alpha Bad Boys get her 3-Way genuine sexual abandon with no investment expected, while he’s got to maintain ‘multiple businesses’ in order to get a prosaic sexual experience with her. The Bad Boys got her sexual best for free, while he’s expected to accept her as the ‘new’ post-Epiphany her…

Nothing I could do or say could convince him that these were past mistakes and not reflective of who I am today. He wasn’t angry with me, didn’t call me a slut or anything like that. Never once raised his voice. Part of me wishes he did, although I can’t exactly say why right now. It felt like I was being laid off from a job.

As I mentioned, the expectation is for her husband to accept “who she is today”, yet who she was ten years ago had a more genuine desire for less established, but sexually arousing, lovers. I’m going to speculate here, but it’s likely that a man who owns multiple businesses spent more of his time diligently and (I presume) responsibly cultivating those enterprises than the men his wife took as lovers ten years ago. Again, we can see that as a moral virtue on his part, but there’s a root indignation of what her past represents within the context of his (I assume) responsible past.

And like a good business owner he plays the confrontation calmly and collectedly. The part of her that wishes he’d raised his voice is the same part that got excited by the Alpha indifference of her former lovers.

So that’s it. We are getting divorced. My supposed life-partner turning his back on me without a second thought. He didn’t even have the decency to discuss it with me first – apparently he visited his lawyer during the week and “the process is in motion” (his words). Knowing him, there is absolutely no changing his mind.

My husband owns multiple businesses and wouldn’t get married without a prenup. I signed it, honest-to-god thinking we’d never, EVER have to use it. Well, he had the fucking document with him this morning. He said he’d pay off the remainder of my student loans, which he isn’t “legally obligated” to do. While I appreciate that, I am going to meet with my lawyer this week and see if the agreement can be challenged in court. We have built a life together, I gave him 5 of the best years of my life and I’ve been 100% faithful to him – I don’t fucking deserve to be tossed out like a piece of trash.

So that’s it. My life turned upside-down in the span of a week, over something I did 10+ YEARS AGO BEFORE I EVEN KNEW HIM. It’s fucking asinine. The thing is, even as I wrote the original post, in the back of my mind I knew he was through with me. He’s ended friendships and business partnerships over less.

Ghosts of Epiphanies Past

In Preventive Medicine I go into a bit of detail about men in this increasingly common circumstance. There is a subconscious expectation on the part of Beta men who find themselves at or just past women’s Epiphany Phase, that predisposes them to believing that what they’ve become as a result of their perseverance throughout their 20’s has now come to fruition and the women who ignored them then have now matured to a point where he’s the ‘sexy’ one at last.

Unless men have a moment of clarity or a Red Pill initiation of their own prior to this, what they don’t accept is that this expectation is a calculated conditioning of the Feminine Imperative to prepare him for women like this; women who can no longer sexually compete for the Alpha Fucks they enjoyed in their Party Years. The Feminine Imperative teaches him that he can expect a woman’s “real” sexual best from the “real” her – why else would she agree to a lifelong marriage if he weren’t the optimal choice to settle down with? Why wouldn’t she be even more sexual than in her past with the man she’s chosen to spend her life with and have children with?

That is the message the Feminine Imperative used to subtly and indirectly imply to Betas-in-waiting. Now with the comfort of Open Hypergamy this message is published in best selling books by influential women:

“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead

Not to belabor Sandberg yet again (she has been hocking the tired out Choreplay meme recently), but this is essentially the outline of the script we’re reading in this woman’s lament. She’s essentially followed Sandberg’s advice only to find that her Beta-in-waiting bought into the same script too. The problem for her is that he took the “nothing’s sexier” part to heart only to find that someone else was sexier long before she’d convinced him otherwise.

For what it’s worth, fem-centrism has far less to fear from the manosphere revealing the ugly Red Pill truths about Hypergamy and more to worry about from pridefully self-indulgent women gleefully explaining it to the general populace themselves. Roosh had a tweet this week with what would likely have been the attitude of our subject wife ten odd years ago:

https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/580169533253636096

The more common Open Hypergamy becomes and the more proudly it’s embraced by the whole of women the less effective shaming men into acceptance of it will be. However, I thought it was entertaining when the counter-comments on Saving the Best questioned how common this situation really was or else thought it was trolling.

I think it’s much more prevalent than most men would like to admit. Perhaps not as dramatic as this example, but far more common for a majority of men who’ve tacitly accepted that the woman they married (or paired with) gave her best to her prior lovers and are too personally or family invested to extricate themselves from her after they’ve realized it. That investment necessitates them convincing themselves of the pre-planned memes the Feminine Imperative has prepared for them – that they are doing the right thing by forcing that dissonance out of their minds.

A lot of Betas-in-waiting like to claim a personal sense of vindication about their successfully pairing and breeding with women who they believe are (and were) their SMV evaluate equals once those women have “got it out of their system” with regards to self-discovery and Alpha indiscretions. In a sense they’re correct; often enough these are the men who gratefully embrace a woman’s intimate acceptance of him precisely at the point when his SMV has matured to match this woman’s declining SMV. I call this crossover the comparative SMV point in my SMV graph.

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Even women on the down-slide of their SMV like to encourage the idea that their post-Epiphany decision to marry the Plan B Beta provider (long term orbiter) is evidence of their newly self-discovered maturity. How could they have been so foolish and not seen how the perfect guy for her had been there all along? That consideration gratifies the ego of a Beta who’s been hammered flat by rejection or mediocre experiences with women up to that point.

The primary reason I spent the last year compiling Preventive Medicine was to help men see past the compartmentalization of women’s phases of maturity, but also to help them see past their own immediate interpretations of those phases as they’re experiencing them. Long term sexual and intimate deprivation (i.e. Thirst) will predispose men to convincing themselves of the part they believe they should play in the social conventions of the Feminine Imperative. Their own cognitive dissonance is a small, subliminal price to pay when they believe they’re finally being rewarded with a woman who’s now ready to give him her best.

What inspired me to this post was reading a cutesy photo-meme on Facebook. The syrupy message was “My only regret was not meeting you sooner so we could spend more of our lives together” superimposed over some kids in black & white holding a rose. Then it hit me, this was a message a guy was posting to his girlfriend; the one he’d met after his second divorce was finalized. What he didn’t want to think about was that if he’d met her sooner she’d have been too busy “discovering herself” to have anything to do with him.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Jeremy
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I like your example a little better M3. However, it’s written to make sense to guys, not girls. Girls don’t really give a shit where a man came from, as long as he’s socially/financially dominant *now*… so restriction of surplus male production (and/or attention) *now* is what women would understand.

Jeremy
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Also… damn fine picture selection on this post. Hah, I swear that was me once or twice.

Joe
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“While out last weekend for a friends birthday, a(now ex) friend of mine told my husband about a relationship I had in college. My husband knew about my college boyfriend, but obviously I didn’t share intimate details about our sex life.”

Women friends. Awesome. That is some War on Women shit right there. Women are so cruel to each other on a day-to-day basis that it’s nearly incomprehensible.

Badpainter
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One thing I can never wrap my mind around is the lane changer that is just honest enough to talk about how she used to be a party girl, master fellatrix, and all round bimbo. But now that she is older, more mature, etc. she says with no hint of irony that she wants a relationship heavy on provisioning for her and without any obligation to provide her man a decent sex life because she’s been there and done that. It’s like working hard labor for years for free and then expecting your next employer to pay you based on… Read more »

M3
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That link… wow.

thedeclineandfall
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Epic post and comments. So much gold.

Jeremy
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hah…

…It has so many MRA buzzwords that the underlying point is diminished.

i.e.: “I won’t learn anything new in the abstract if I have to do so to learn a practical point about life. Rigor is hard, write for 3 year olds.”

Mr T
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@Stingray wrote:

“This woman thinks her faithfulness deserves some kind of reward”
this is diamond .

or
I fucked so many men before and could have fucked some more but I stopped to marry (settle) you .
I gave you the monopoly to my pussy.

the meter in a Taxi dose not stop when the light is red .

LostSailor
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@deti

The problem here is not the sex. It’s the fraud, the subterfuge, the deception. The entry into marriage on false pretenses.

And if people like this woman (http://rapebyfraud.com/), and possibly the state of New Jersey, have their way, she could also be charged with rape for each time they had sex after she told the lie about her sexual past…

Stingray
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Oh, I know it is a very common response. However, a lot of blue pill people cannot see that her anger comes from selfishness and not from some weird form of wanting to protect herself. They rationalize the latter when that is rarely the case.

BuenaVista
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Her indignation at her rejection, revealing not an iota of emotional hurt, reveals the transactional, opportunistic aspect of her marrying him. Newgal would likely throw her laptop out the window if asked to understand that women love opportunistically, men idealistically, and that sex means, and is used, for entirely different purposes by each sex. Newgal is into gender equality in all things, I’d wager. Too bad it doesn’t exist. Newgal is blind to the notion that women with hypergamous, promiscuous pasts predict hypergamous, promiscuous futures. Newgal likely lacks a single friend who can detail the unilateral costs of divorce —… Read more »

Stingray
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Mr. T,

Thank you but I can’t take credit for it. AmyJ said that at AlphaGame and she is exactly right.

BuenaVista
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Another friend of mine is on the make for her first husband. She’s also hitting the wall, but there’s still a lot to look at. She’s got a sketchy job that involves a lot of overseas work (“wheels up, rings off”) with burly operator/bodyguard types, and she has, on occasion, bragged about her sexual profligacy. But 15 months ago she identified a guy — divorced, older, exec — she likes and they have been sporadically involved emotionally. To be fair she’s done kind things for him and she’s very interesting. Now she wants him to meet her parents. She, like… Read more »

Mr T
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stingray
my mother and all my sisters and all the women I dated said the same thing .
it is in women`s DNA to believe in that.

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo The amount of blithe indifference to the male condition in that thread is simply amazing. Even knowing about it, sometimes the complete inability to identify with men as human beings with feelings (not even as men) by women is absolutely breathtaking. I always solipsistically assumed women could do at least that much for men since I found myself able to do it for everyone around me. Threads like that one remind me that they almost certainly never did. And for any of you ladies reading, yes I’m referring to you. You’ve never even once tried to consider the world… Read more »

Jeremy
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@Sun Wukong And why should they consider life from a man’s point of view? They’ve been thoroughly convinced of their inferiority and the “latent superiority” of men… so why should they consider the plight of the people involved in their victimization? How is it worth a single brain-cell-cycle to believe that men might have it worse if they’re somehow “on top” thanks to the patriarchy? People completely ignore the life conditions of those they consider superior to them. In fact we blanket-presume that everyone we consider superior to us has it better than us. As Shaquille O’neal would often quote… Read more »

Stingray
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it is in women`s DNA to believe in that.

Yes, this is hypergamy, even it it’s a fleeting ONS. She’s basically saying, I tempered my hypergamy for you, for 5 whole years.

In a marriage, this should be a given.

kobayashii1681
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@Sun: Haha! Shots fired bruv! “Desert eagle, point, five-O!”

Yeah, ‘Newgal’ is taking a piss though. We don’t expect you or your epiphany &/or post wall cohorts to understand.

You’re not supposed to.

Fact is your duplicity facilitates your security, it’s biology. So, as adaptable mammals, men must react to the current environment, we must also act as our biology dictates, without the prescribed FI goggles. You’ve had a good run. However, you can only cheat nature so long.

kobayashii1681
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@ Rollo: “Women will break the rules for men who turn them on and create rules for men they don’t respect.”

Ooooh shit! Take that to the bank…truer words, truer words.

You can even see this as a pubescent, adolescent, this shit is as old as time…

thedeti
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Sun wukong: A good blogger and commenter once told me, off list and in comments: When you get all the way down to it, women really don’t care what men go through in their lives, because they don’t really have a concept of it. They don’t empathize with men’s difficulties and hardships (this despite women’s continually claiming their limitless capacities for empathy and compassion). And women do not care about the issues facing men, like involuntary celibacy, the 80/20 disparity, principles of sexual attractiveness, etc. Women don’t care that men face these issues and have to grapple with them. Women… Read more »

Jeremy
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I also find this amusing:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Women give their best to guys who are good in bed. Maybe stop resting on your laurels about your achievements and figure out how to give her an oegasm.

This!

+2

This is like a guy saying:

“Men give gifts to women who are good at giving them gifts! Maybe stop being lazy and beauty-centered and figure out how to give your guy some wealth that he’ll treasure for the rest of his life.”

Women making this argument are retarded.

Mr T.
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Let’s see whether she fucks her lawyer (as a down payment) or picking up 2 alphas at a bar for ONS.

Jeremy
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I just clicked on that link out of morbid curiosity. Lots of highfalutin armchair psychology and made-up jargon and big dictionary words used out of proper context. Oh, and the misogyny. It was unreadable. Are those losers speaking in some sort of loser code? It reminded me of that leaked video of Tom Cruise talking about how amazing Scientology is – the bizarre lingo, the hive mind, the weird and unnatural phrasing.

LOL. Thinking is HARD.

Glenn
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@newgal – A few thoughts for you. 1. The hubby thought he was “the one” to his wife. He didn’t complain about their relatively tame but fun sex life because he thought he was getting the best sex from her. Now he realizes he’s getting second best or worse. 2. She hid this from him intentionally and still Is withholding the truth from him. This makes her a serious liar and someone who can’t be trusted. Like when she says she’s been faithful for five whole years, “100%” – bullshit, I’d bet a thousand dollars she’s cheated on him. They… Read more »

Jeremy
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Bleh, Newgal still thinks that men sleeping around before marriage should be the equal of women sleeping around before marriage. She doesn’t understand her own sex and the value that each sex brings to the table.

Ask Newgal if she would consider a man who inherited tremendous wealth and spent 90% of it before marrying her just as good marriage-material as a man who did not, and you’ll see that the “hypocrisy” she accuses us of is something she herself suffers from.

Sun Wukong
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@Jeremy “And why should they consider life from a man’s point of view?” Absolutely. I was of course being rhetorical. Agreed on all points. “Are those losers speaking in some sort of loser code?” Gotta love ad hominem. It worked for the prosecution in Idiocracy, why not try it out in real life too? The funny thing is when people meet me in person they don’t even know I read RP material. It’s Fight Club to me. Those women would just find me a really charming, funny guy if they met me on the street. I get to hear it… Read more »

Mr T
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for newgal

Forge the Sky
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@Alec Leamas: “I can’t tell if a woman hiding her sexual past post-epiphany is a con or cognitive dissonance or a bit of both. What it demonstrates is a (perhaps subconscious) acknowledgement that having an extensive list of sex partners is considered by most if not all “good” men to be a negative if not entirely disqualifying quality. Despite a feminist-led campaign to eliminate “slut shaming” women themselves seem to have continued the practice unabated…. “It’s also my perception that women aren’t very good judges of an Alpha’s level of commitment after the Rubicon of sex is crossed. They become… Read more »

Jeremy
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@Sun, The “loser” argument has lost all meaning when coming from women. It’s like “Racist” or “sexist”… it’s meaningless. If a woman takes the time to call me a loser, I know two things… 1) She got upset enough at what I said to say that, which is good because women shouldn’t be comforted for nothing. DISCOMFORT BREEDS THOUGHTFULNESS… and, 2) Her hypergamous instincts are child-like and lazy to the point of failing to learn enough about men to avoid disqualifying a winner. I would bet significant wealth, tens of thousands of dollars, that most women would be shocked at… Read more »

Badpainter
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Women can and do judge men by the number of sexual partners they’ve had. I’d argue they’re even more brutal about it. The difference is small numbers or no number is the kiss of death. Just look at how much scorn is heaped on the poor bastards that virgins over 19 years old.

Sun Wukong
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@Jeremy Yep. I’m betting it comes down to walking in to a male space where nobody says “Sh sh sh! There’s a chick coming in” and seeing us talk without protecting their fragile world views. At some point their father, brothers, sons, boyfriends, and husbands have all had private thoughts or conversations among men only that women would immediately disqualify as “misogynist” or “creepy”. Every single guy they know. Every. Single. One. Every charming guy they’ve ever met, no matter how “amazing” he was would be classified in the bunch they’re tossing men in to. Every guy their sloppy cunts… Read more »

ChocDoc
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What a lovely article, rollo.

Mr T.
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Women know very well they are and can not be sexually equal to men otherwise they wouldn’t hide their N count.

The scary part is the day when a new generation of men are brought up to not care about women’ N count.

Lucien
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“The funny thing is when people meet me in person they don’t even know I read RP material. It’s Fight Club to me. Those women would just find me a really charming, funny guy if they met me on the street. I get to hear it constantly from people. I’m not unpleasant or bitter, I instantly get a reputation for with, humor, and deep thinking with folks I meet. “So call us “creepy” or “losers” on the Internet all you like. You won’t know it’s us when you meet us, but you’ll sure like following that fun guy with the… Read more »

thedeti
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Newgal:

There are no sexual mistakes.

There are only sexual decisions.

BuenaVista
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Observations from my online dating days: Very few women write an original profile. They generally follow the same template. Two frequently encountered statements: “I finally know what I want!” Means, lane-changer, any beta bucks opportunities sloshing around here? The case study likely said this about herself, one way or another, when she married at 29. ” … and TRAVEL!” The women who make a fetish of commoditized foreign travel, and photograph themselves climbing Kilimanjaro or Zermatt or Macchu Picchu? They’re taking time-out and chasing dick, because it doesn’t count. (Also, of course, you’ll be expected to start funding these adventures,… Read more »

Jeremy
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lol Deti, perfect reply. *bows*

BuenaVista
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The only time I’ve been called a “bitter loser” etc. is when I attempt to discuss socio-sexual issues (including mundane stuff like divorce, CPS, and VAWA) with a female friend. Most recently, a supposedly sympathetic woman who I guess felt cornered by it all (cornered by the logic, the truth of it) and labeled me a “dysfunctional pessimist no one wants to be around.” As it happens, I hide from women, otherwise I don’t get anything productive accomplished. Elsewhere Deti has made the point that this subject matter cannot be discussed with women, and per Lucien, immediately above, my experience… Read more »

Jeremy
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How do you find these threads Rollo?

That poor guy at 50 is just learning that his wife never regarded him as anything other than a beta bucks, so he wants out.

It’s so weird to read threads like that from a new perspective… watching people act like chemistry could ever be solved by “talking it out,” and they’re completely serious about it.

rugby11ljh
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http://www.emersoncentral.com/selfreliance.htm
Man the fact that shame and guilt come up when in bring this stuff up makes the alpha in me wanna go out and chop wood.

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

So uh… is that a moment of clarity?

BuenaVista
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The problem with reading the delusional comments in that Lovesick thread (“ah, just calm down and go home and hug it out — and what did you ever do for HER besides fully support her and stifle your measly male gross icky sexual proclivities”): eventually, you realize, this is what most women are thinking. And all their friends.

Men, to these women, are just creatures to be roped, dropped, branded and harnessed to the cart.

kaizersoze71
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God Bless the man. Life’s a bitch like that. Damn the 5 “best years of her life” makes it sounds like it was all work on her end.

Stingray
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Anyway, if I need to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get sex from my wife, I may as well get myself a harem of escorts.

This is going to become more and more common and women just can’t or won’t grasp it.

It’s not that difficult to understand.

Jeremy
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When I was in college, I had a friend who was a lecturer (not professor-track) in the physics department. He also had a wife and two kids, and was nearing 50. He still had plenty of sex drive remaining. But after 20+ years of basically no sex from her (only mechanical, grudgingly-given sex once every few months), and both kids going off to college.. they called it quits. I watched this happen in front of me, I even was the truck-buddy to help him move into an apartment near mine (I always live where I spend most of my work… Read more »

Stingray
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Hey M3! I was just wondering how you were doing the other day. I hope things are well with you.

muddge
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@ Rollo

From the loveshack link:

“God I hope when I’m 50 I have bigger priorities than old person sex. Get your head out of the gutter and start working on your retirement fund, watch your cholesterol and maybe start taking a baby aspirin.

If you think your mediocre, duty sex is bad now, wait until you see what it’s like alone, forever.

Good luck on dying a bitter old man alone.”

Your material writes (or has already written) itself.

kfg
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“The women who make a fetish of commoditized foreign travel . . . ”

. . . so they can come home and excitedly talk about what they ate.

“They find me man.”

For me it’s been women and kittens. Even if I go ghost, they find me eventually. But here’s the part I find interesting, and perhaps a bit scary – puppies don’t. Somehow or other they know I’m not the guy to dump a basket of puppies on. How do they know that? What else do they know?

And where’s my tinfoil?

Lucien
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@rugby11ljh

Haha. Emerson! To prove what I was saying earlier…Emerson writes, in the very essay you link to: “Society is a conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members.”

Just Saying
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My life turned upside-down in the span of a week, over something I did 10+ YEARS AGO BEFORE I EVEN KNEW HIM. I like this quote – it’s so typical of women. It’s like a man saying, “Sure I killed that family, but it was years ago, and I’m entirely different now.” Now women will come back and say – “the two aren’t equivalent” – but they are… They are actions taken, and only now that the truth has come out, are the consequences being felt. This woman lied to her husband – it is that simple. Glad to see… Read more »

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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I see no such quote in the Emerson essay, would CTRL-F lie?

Anonymous age 72
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Anonymous age 72
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Please remove prenups from your marriage plans. I supplied counseling to divorced men for 10 years. To do this effectively, I also did legal research. Here is the harsh reality of pre-nups. 1. Prenups in almost all states are no good if they are written in anticipation of divorce. How do they know that? Well, she files for divorce and he presents the pre-nup to limit is pay out. RIP!!! 2. Prenups in almost all states specifically can be thrown out if a judge views the result as unfair or unjust. RIP!!! IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU HAVE MONEY AND… Read more »

Roger
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Roger
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The essence of Monica Lewinsky with her talk on TED about shame strikes me as similar. Not her fault ya know – it was the internet. Enjoyed both your books and continue to find fertile thoughts in your writing. It sure helped my perspective.

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Ok that Emerson phrase may be in their. Need to go back and read. Check this out from rollos comment
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_contr_use.html

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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Realistically, you don’t need a prenup. There are still plenty of ways to keep wealth outside of the reach of the system. Sometimes the old ways are the best.

scotty
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scotty
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I’ve been waiting to post this at the appropriate time. I was this guy once, and here’s the way I see it, as an analogy: Whether on a first date, with women who say they are “done with the bad boys” (translation: “I gave my best sex and prime to OTHER men, and I am settling for you, for provision), or a woman who reveals her past during her marriage, here is the analogy: A man tells his date (or as an appropriate analogy, his middle-aged wife, similar scenario, just in a marital setting, when she calls him out for… Read more »

Kyfho Myoba
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Kyfho Myoba
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@ Rollo: “Women will break the rules for men who turn them on and create rules for men they don’t respect.”

Rollo, we need a post (or three) on this topic. I salivate when I think of what you could do with this.

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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ok, Scotty wins in the analogy department, well done. If there are women who can read what you wrote and still think there should be no consequences for not saving your best for your husband, they’re just plain selfish, and beyond the reach of reason.

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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Or wait, Scotty… not quite. Your example has the man being open and honest about his past. Most women simply try to hide their sexual history.

So an equivalent situation would be the woman finding out about this “other life” that her husband had, and is still capable of having, but decided not to, and then a similar conversation happening… with the man still trying to lie about it.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Jeremy

Whoa whoa, I think Scotty went the right route here. Women don’t want open and honest.

SilvrBk
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SilvrBk
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@Rollo : Lol.The next book is surely about open hypergamy. As an aside i’ve a question regarding preventive medicine. Men have the most smv during their late years, but the impression i get reading the book, that a late age smv of a higher beta is not the same as the teenage smv of the alpha, even if the number of women who want to sleep with them are the same. It seems that even with that high smv, older men wouldn’t be able to notch younger women and all they would be left with would be a lot of… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@SilvrBk

Might wanna ask Glenn or some of the other older single guys about that. Guy’s 52 and apparently still scoring mid-20s hotties. It’s all about taking care of yourself and doing the hard work to reap the benefits later.

SilvrBk
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SilvrBk
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@Sun Wukong . Thanks. Fortunately, some red pill truths are pleasant to the ears.

Realist
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Realist
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I’m probably going off on an extreme red pill realization but it just dawned to me after thinking. From my understanding, I guess betas primarily get mad at this whole “lack of desire” because they never truly see this other (feral desire) side to their partner. The fact that they never see this is an assurance of their betatude. Women are far more selective in their desires than men, so it only comes to reason that they also have this understanding far more honed than men do. Remember how most women have an ideal man (desirable) and not a specific… Read more »

Realist
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@Scotty: That is a damn near perfect analogy. I nearly did the same thing to a girl without me knowing it. I was already banging this girl for quite sometime now. The conversation somehow got into past lovers and I brought up this girl who gave me a great experience all throughout. I noticed that my excitement and nostalgic tone made her feel uneasy. I could sense that the positive compliments I was giving my ex (even after a few years) made her feel like she wasn’t receiving my best. She made this obvious when I said, “You haven’t said… Read more »

Mr T.
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Mr T.
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2 thumbs up to Scotty.

Mr T.
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Mr T.
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“All women are whores… …except my mother. But then again, she is a woman!” – Napoleon Bonaparte.

Lucien
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Lucien
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@ Realist

Yeah. Ouch. But what you say is surely true.

Lucien
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Lucien
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@Jeremy

Yeah, sorry I was quoting from memory. It actually starts like this: “Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood . . . “

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Idealist thanks for your post
“Women will break the rules for men who turn them on and create rules for men they don’t respect.”
I got in a threesome once and pissed off both girls because I was beta whipped an ignorant. They ended up changing their policy an mandated religious duty to 18 from 19 not saying that was just done by me but I am saying that women fuck dudes who break rules and they control the law and policy of how those rules are enforced.

scotty
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scotty
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I literally LIVED through this nightmare (as a blue pill guy) with a chick…I suffered from ONEITITES, INSECURITY, learning about her past, all that, despite that I had been a semi-Alpha and had slept with nearly 100 women…it’s not a double standard either, it’s that women and men bond differently, and to my analogy, if a man had given his best PROVISIONING to another woman (in his past…or many for that matter) a gal would totally get this. I hope some guys try it. Do that “first date at a coffee place” and when the opening for it comes, throw… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Realist

Women will be open and honest when it suits them and when they’ll benefit from it.

Of course, but I was referring to what they want from men.

The Diplomat
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The Diplomat
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Scotty is killing. Too damn funny.

kfg
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kfg
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SilvrBk: I’m a silverback, older than Glenn, and young girls, girls young enough that I’ve had to throw a few of them back, still take the initiative in opening, and even pursuing, me. Here’s the deal, most young women will have no interest, but there are some who are actually into older men. These young women will self select. So although the pool is much smaller, as you state, the absolute numbers do not necessarily decrease and they are not particularly hard to find, they’ll make themselves known. You do need to exercise a little patience for them to do… Read more »

Robert What?
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Robert What?
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I foolishly married an aged out carousel rider, and I most definitely did not get her best. But this was years before the ‘sphere; before there was anything to challenge the FI.

scotty
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scotty
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“Carrie…look, I RESPECT you too much to go down on you…we’re talking about getting MARRIED for Christ’s sake…that’s stuff I did in my crazy years back in college, and trust me, a lot of girls really like it even though I only did it out of obligation. Fuck, I thought you’d appreciate my honesty and that we didn’t need all that “porn stuff” in our own lives. That was the OLD ME, I’d like to think I’ve grown up a bit since those wild days. Sex is sacred and for making babies…I can’t WAIT to see you have our children,… Read more »

Mr T.
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Mr T.
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“Carrie…look, I RESPECT you too much to go down on you…we’re talking about getting MARRIED for Christ’s sake

I can’t stop laughing.

Carrie…I respect you to much to come in your mouth like I did to all the women who swallowed, and no more anal, it’s too demeaning honey.

UntruthExposed
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UntruthExposed
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Written by an irrational male. That…sucks.

[Is that all you got?]

Newgal
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Newgal
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Coming into the lions den indeed lol. I’m almost sorry I commented , almost. Firstly : my sexual count can be counted on 2 hands, this includes any kind of sexual contact other than kissing so I’m not overly concerned or ashamed of my conduct, nor would I ever hide it from a SO, let alone a husband. I’ve had ltrs with extremely beta men and flings with alpha aholes. Considering I started at 15 I think I’ve done ok. I completely agree that that woman shouldn’t have lied and should have disclosed her sexual history before getting married and… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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Scotty’s on a roll.

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . the contradictory teachings here.”

There are no contradictory teachings here.

A) Men and women are different.
B) The SMP is competitive.

Hobbes
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Hobbes
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Newgal will never understand even if you print it into her neurons- it’s not in her interest to understand, despite all the perfectly good explanations already given. Her N-count and “alpha a-hole” experiences can’t be undone.. so the only thing left to do is to dismiss all the answers already given.
Here is a proposal for an iron rule: a women will always pretend to not understand something when it is against her self interest to understand it.

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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Rollo I observe that truth
This also stands out

Think about the interesting things you’re doing.

You’ll generate interest.

eric
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eric
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@Realist
Ya man, Rollo has many posts on desire. You can’t negotiate desire, little late to the party, man

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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@newgal My issue is with the contradictory teachings here. You advocate for men to spin plates and keep it casual- definitely to sleep with them for a while before handing out any kind of commitment. Yet for a women to be considered worthy of a commitment she has to be the kind of woman that won’t be a plate. You do understand that most women don’t actually seek a serious relationship commitment until ~27-30 or so? Are you also capable of understanding that only women around 20-23 are at their peak sexual attraction? If you’re able to understand these two… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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No need to beat anyone up just leave. This remark rings familiar a women will always pretend to not understand something when it is against her self interest to understand it. When you deal with trauma that apples to males as much as females. I e having sex with older women at 8 and being abused by older women who are close to you. Brain copes by denying it. As rollo mentioned we seek a higher level of proof from things we don’t want to believe. I may have just said that wrong but I am tired and dealt with… Read more »

ch_ok_mah
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ch_ok_mah
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For fuck’s sake. Of course you must be in control of YOU—physically, financially, emotionally, before you can properly command the attention of your desired female. That has been the recipe since time immemorial… thousands of years, we’re talking. The PUA crowd would have you believe otherwise, precisely because they are counting on your ignorance to fuel their revenue projections. But, come one, you are a healthy male, correct? The first milestone of being a healthy male is NOT needing to give YOUR money to another male to learn how to be a male. It’s already inside of you. You were… Read more »

melmoth
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melmoth
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@livefearless,

That’s very cool. It’s fun to play a part like that.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Newgal

My issue is with the contradictory teachings here.

And I explained why we have them succinctly after you expressed your opinion the first time. You just refuse to hear the lesson. At this point you’re no longer just ignorant. Ignorant is excusable. It is the state we’re all in until we learn the lessons set before us. You’re voluntarily, stubbornly ignorant. I find that inexcusable.

We gave you all the explanation you needed. Now bugger off to your echo chamber with your ego-invested beliefs and find somebody that cares about your opinion.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Jeremy

So, in your brain… women have to be sluts in order for men to get laid… because if women were LTR/Marriage seeking, men somehow wouldn’t get laid… which means that all marriages are sexless… but if marriages are sexless… then all men who are demanding the sexual best of women in marriage are demanding something they can’t get in marriage… which then justify’s spinning plates, because marriages are sexless…

Damn you and your logic and your reasoning. This is the internet. There’s no place for that here.

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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That was was the best destruction of a computer scene buffer punch in the face hi fucker how ya doing I have read on the manosphere.
For fuck sake I wish I could talk with people in person as such.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@rugby So go talk to other dudes. Just grab a drink at a bar, turn to the guy next to you, and say something. I’ve been talking to more and more dudes that way lately. They want to ask me about the bike, then about my job, then about my life, then about women, then suddenly we’re having philosophical discussions about the shit we talk about here. Since it’s a guy, even if he’s Blue Pill as fuck, if he’s ever dealt with women he’s willing to hear a fresh perspective. He appreciates it. Hell half the guys buy me… Read more »

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