Bargain Abasement

“Men conquer worlds, women conquer men.” – Pook

From the time boys are about five years old, we’re taught self-control. Anyone with a young son  understands the challenge in this, but for the most part the control we teach our boys differs from what we teach (or don’t teach) our girls. For the most part, this control is necessary to curb boys’ natural proclivities to take risks, but in a feminine-primary social order this inhibiting risk comes from a need for female security . Our young minds, boys and girls, lack the capacity for abstract thought. In fact, our brains continue to develop to their fullest potential right up to 20-21 years of age. 

For millennia, adult men, fathers, mothers, the Village that is our larger social order, understood the need to place limitations on boys innate impulsiveness – usually for their own good. While these restrictions and discipline have always been a needed part of boys’ upbringing, today that self-control is taught in the context of how a young man can be more ‘correct’ by his female teachers. In the time of our old social contract teaching young men self-control and self-discipline was a means to self-mastery as an adult man. In the new social contract our gynocentric education system (and socialization) teaches boys discipline in the hopes that they will provide the security that women need.

And the way this is taught is by embedding a deep sense of shame and self-loathing of the male gender into ever-younger generations of future men. Mental Point of Origin is a constant theme in all of my literary work. I want to stress here that crushing any sense of self-priority or self-importance from boys and young men is the prime directive of a gynocentric education system. Last Saturday we discussed the “worshiping of women” on our new show Rule Zero. In this episode I pointed out that men are taught to place womankind on a pedestal from an early age. This meta-pedestalization of the feminine begins when boys are taught self-abasement as part of self-control. Essentially, all control becomes for boys is reducing themselves while aggrandizing (supporting) girls and later women. This is the main reason why wrapping your head around Mental Point of Origin is so difficult for men later in life. Their Blue Pill conditioning taught them to be servants as a means of proving their self-control.

Most women, certainly all feminists, will do their best to convince us that it’s still little girls who are taught to repress their naturally boyish natures. But it’s a cliché now to believe that little girls would be every bit as ‘curious about how the world works’ if not for a nebulous society that represses their passion for discovery. Since the Sexual Revolution our social order has done its damnedest to reverse gender roles – boys are taught to emulate the feminine, girls emulate the masculine. The Disney corporation has been the most active social agent in western culture in fomenting this reversal. Every story across all genres follows the same plot; a repressed little girl would make an even better boy if not for these Patriarchal rules she must break from. The story of Mulan is a good example. The girl Mulan must impersonate a boy in order to prove herself as a masculine equal – and to get closer to the Alpha male she naturally wants to pair with. Our popular fiction today all follows a similar teaching; girls need to break away from self-control to be more empowered.

The notion that little girls are ever taught to repress their natures is laughable in real life. If little boys are taught like they’re defective girls, then girls today are taught that they can literally do anything – and be free of any lasting consequences. In fact any restrictions, any pretense of a girl/woman requiring a degree of self-control is immediately associated with repression. This old order idea of female repression is a favorite trope for the Fempowerment narrative. The most marginal, well-meaning, criticism of women or the feminine is always steeped in ‘judgmentalism’. Being ‘judged’ is always a concern for women. For the past 3-4 generations of women, being freed from ‘repression’ is also to be free from judgement. They have an entitlement to avoid consequence.

Abasement

On last week’s Rule Zero episode we asked a question: why is it so many men will abase themselves with women? If you’ve been Red Pill aware for a while it’s easy to just dismiss these guys and think they’re all just low self-esteem losers, but the belief is endemic to the 80% of Beta men. The combination of having been raised to prioritize the concerns of women above his own interest, and the notion that doing so will make him a better romantic catch in the eyes of women (who already feel entitled to him being a useful servant) turns self-abasement into a form of Beta Game.

Why does a man get down on one knee to propose marriage to a woman? Surely this old social contract form of abasement was an expectation of men. It’s in practically every romantic story ever told.

Under the old social contract a man was presumed to be above a woman in status. The old intersexual hierarchy of love followed from the man to the woman and then later to the child(ren). It was a natural, understood, dominance hierarchy prior to the Sexual Revolution. In all the old stories Disney has ever retold the presumption of this hierarchy defines the plot of the story. Of course now we’ve grown accustomed to gender swaps and expectation swaps in these retellings, but when a woman gets down on bended-knee to propose to a man – as her empowering teachers have taught her is acceptable – there’s something awkward when a woman abases herself to a man. 

One of the prime directives of feminism is this:

Never do anything for the express pleasure of a man.

Anything a woman might do just to please a man is abasement. It smacks of the repressiveness little girls are told still holds them back in spite all the world’s attempts to advantage them. Doing something, wearing something, being something or behaving in a way that might intentionally please a man is the antithesis of the Strong Independent Woman® ideal. But yet, women are taught that they should expect to live in Sadie Hawkins’ World where they should feel empowered to ask the man on a date and ask him to marry her if he merits it. Again, it’s all part of the gender reversal we’re expected to embrace.

But when you see it, when a woman is doing the proposing, it doesn’t feel empowering. It feels awkward, backwards. Social constructionism says that awkwardness is the result of society teaching you stereotypical gender norms; but those norms haven’t been the standard for at least 4 generations. Disney’s taught us different for some time now. But it still looks weird. The man is supposed to initiate. The man is supposed display and she is supposed to choose. The man is supposed to abase himself, right?

Male abasement is a sign of submission in an age that expected him to be an Alpha already. There used to be a time when men were expected to be the masters of their lives. Men understood their  Burden of Performance and built a life around creating (conquering) their own worlds. Certainly this achievement was motivated by finding a wife, but more so because of his innate sense of idealism.

The Ideal Man

The old social order expectations of men are still what women feel entitled to in the new order:

  • Superior Physicality: He must be more than her equal in height and strength. Muscularity is an ideal in men. Women hold far more strict and static ideals of male beauty than men have ever held for women.
  • Superior Dominance: He is respected, deferred to and sometimes feared by his peers. He holds status, power (in the traditional sense) and honor that is confirmed and reinforced by others – but only insofar as it can be useful to a woman. Women tend to have an immature understanding of the nature of power.
  • Superior Confidence/Competence: He must be more innovative and competent than herself. Competence is directly tied to the Hypergamous doubt – “Is he the best I can do?” If she is more competent (or she believes she is) than he is it upsets the natural intersexual dominance hierarchy and ultimately his Frame control. Confident competence is the foundation of a woman’s need for long term security.
  • Superior Mastery: He must be a master of himself and the world he directs. Again, this is tied to a woman’s need for security which he must ensure in the long term; even into his old age. He must “Just Get It” with her and understand women in general – this is derived from experience and being supremely desired by other women.

For all of this mastery the ideal man is expected to possess, the fantasy is that he must abase himself to her due to her uniqueness. The power of love is what he must defer to. Even today, in a post Sexual Revolution era, this chivalric ideal is still an unspoken expectation. That ideal is a superior man who abases himself to her, and only to her. This is the Beauty and the Beast archetypal story. The fantasy ideal man is only beholden to her particular charms. Men conquer worlds, women conquer men.

A few years ago (2012-13) I did a series of posts about the chivalric ideal. In those essays I proposed that the western concepts of chivalry, bastardized by the influence of ‘courtly love’, were an extension of power by the feminine. Essentially chivalry was feminism 1.0 in that it leveraged men’s obligations of honor to benefit the Feminine Imperative. Chivalry was a Male Space into which women inserted themselves (via courtly love), assimilated the principles and rewrote the rules to better fit themselves. We still see vestiges of this today when women post something on Facebook or Twitter stating that “only a ‘real’ man does the things that benefit me, my sexual strategy and my ensured survival and happiness.” 

Male sacrifice now extends to a man abasing himself for an entitled benefit of womankind. It’s no longer just an expectation of undying love and commitment, it’s a surrendering of his evolved imperatives.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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A bit off topic, but here is a link to an ongoing series on why all that “man-made climate change” bullshit is merely the latest secular version of apocalypticism. You might have also noticed the considerable overlap between those who believe in that scam and those who pedestal women.

https://dissention.wordpress.com/?s=Anthropogenic+Climate+Change+Secular+Apocalypticism

jorge torres
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I wonder how the mother and son relationship plays here. We understand in the rp that moms tend to make their sons the man they wanted but even then the argument is , does a woman know what she wants? I remember being raised by my mom and she would feed me alot of blue pill narratives and I struggled for a long time because of that. When I question her now she had no idea of what she was doing. She didnt maliciously do it but because that’s what she thought a ideal boy/man would need to find a… Read more »

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I’ve only ever personally known one woman who ever asked a man to marry her. It was a woman I knew who had spent a few months off and on talking to me about her desires for a husband and a family. She also said she was going to move to Southern California to be a cop. I told her that being a cop would make her unfeminine and suck up her life, preventing her from having a family. She asked what she should do since her boyfriend of a few years wasn’t proposing. She was in her upper 20’s.… Read more »

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why is this so HARD? Sure… give the little women their abasement in “words”. That’s all and it is really ALL they want. And do what you will. I’m surprised that this kind of idea of saying one thing and doing another has not caught on in the man-o-sphere. Women do this all the time. So why can’t a man in relating to a woman give her the lip service she seems to require? Men go around and mentally “get” that women are irrational. AND THEN turn around and demand rationality in how we deal with women. Why? Why hold… Read more »

Sentient
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Why are you angry Gamer?

liz
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Ron Taylor
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Society would change completely if men took all the HR and grade school teaching jobs.

Veneno112
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The best way to play this out is to interact with women. I ask myself now with my latest plate, if I’m doing too much? In who’s frame am I? and if I’m not breaking my own slightly modified version of Iron Rule 3. She has one date left anyways.

Another thing is gentlemen take two pictures with a women, one where you sit upright and stare into the camera and another leaning into her. See which one looks better…

rugby11
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IAS
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@Angry game: giving in, even if only “verbally” (if not in actions), to appease a woman… Is still a loss of Frame (and not being on our own MPoO).

IRL
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@Angry Gamer I’m surprised that this kind of idea of saying one thing and doing another has not caught on in the man-o-sphere. Women do this all the time. So why can’t a man in relating to a woman give her the lip service she seems to require? Angry phase huh? Women appearing to be saying one thing and doing another is just a dog goggles (male forebrain) fallacy. If humans had evolved without verbals, even forebrains, they’d still be able to function and communicate. Like many other species. Forebrain is just another layer, a buffer to process what’s happening… Read more »

walawala
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Old Roissy maxim of punish swiftly and reward slowly…

Thomas P Seager
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There’s a chapter in The Long Road to the Industrial Revolution that explores the evolution of marriage in northwestern Europe (North Sea countries). The European Marriage Pattern (EMP) that emerged during the late medieval is distinct from other technological advanced and urbanizing societies like those in China or Persia. https://zodml.org/sites/default/files/%5bJan_Luiten_van_Z%5d_The_Long_Road_to_the_Industrial_0.pdf The EMP introduced a social expectation that a woman’s consent was essential to sex and marriage. What’s really interesting is the role of the Catholic Church in establishing EMP as doctrine throughout the many emerging political jurisdictions and city states. The Church noticed that women were more likely to name… Read more »

kfg
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The Plague giving more political and economic power to the working classes acted as a considerable accelerant.

foxguy
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The expected abasement is a test, I can’t think of much instances I’ve done it. If you don’t abase yourself their respect increases for you, double points if you call them on their bullshit in a friendly joking manner, see the interest rise in their eyes. The reason most guys don’t do it is because of the way they have been programmed. The root of the problem is the educational system both public and private at this point. I’ve recently gotten involved in my kids school system and started to play real close attention to what is going on. It’s… Read more »

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“. . . It’s actually not some evil/conspiracy as far as I can tell but rather short term(how I feel now) type thinking that is driving the decisions made.”

The long term conspiracy is centered in the teacher’s colleges which shape the perspective given to the short term thinking.

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I agree foxguy! Before I even knew about RP I intuitively got this. I didn’t even ask my wife to marry me. It didn’t feel right to (seemed like) “beg” for her permission. I knew she wanted me, so I simply asked her dad for his blessing without her in the room and then announced we’d be getting married. She has half-heartedly complained about that ever since when in a social setting. It almost feels like she is bragging about it oddly. Either way, I have always been happy with my decision and smile when she tells the story. The… Read more »

kfg
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“It almost feels like she is bragging about it oddly.”

It’s called “humble bragging.” It’s a standard arrow in the covert Women’s Circle status quiver.

Anonymous Reader
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foxguy It’s mostly all women at this point even in the administrative areas, 80% easy. It’s actually not some evil/conspiracy as far as I can tell but rather short term(how I feel now) type thinking that is driving the decisions made The k – 12 system is a huge beta factory. That’s not an accident, it’s a result of feminization. Remember, women are tribal. They have a known ingroup preference of 4:1 by one study, so women teachers tend to prefer women over men. This is how HR turns into a femme-only world, and they is how education has become… Read more »

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@Thomas P Thanks for the observation and the linkage. There are other differences within the Hajnal line. The Catholic Church sought to control nobles in part by banning cousin marriages; 1st cousins, then 2nd cousins, then ultimately all the way out to 5th or even 7th cousins. This had the effect of making it very difficult for any nobleman to find a wife that could produce a noble heir, but of course leaving his wealth to the church was always an option…that was no accident. Another rabbit trail: the Cult of Courtly Love that dates back at least to Eleanor… Read more »

Sentient
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“Patriarch” convention…
comment image

https://twitter.com/beachmuscles/status/1164959911165534209

kfg
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Well that didn’t take long. And he says he’s sold thousands of tickets.

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Sentient
“Patriarch” convention…

It’s nice his mom showed up.

Sentient
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Palma

Yeah we have that term. And “gay husband” the other way.

Yes AJA looks less than comfortable…

Sentient
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Palma Who the fuck do these clowns think they are? Here are some lessons on marraige from The Family Alpha, ya know the guy who’s wife cheated on him and he didnt find out for nine years. And he kept her. That lesson is missing… https://thefamilyalpha.com/11-lessons/ “One trick I use to ensure I don’t become routine or less attractive is I ask myself, “if I were on a second date with this girl, would this action get me a third date?“ This little thought experiment keeps me from too many fart jokes, Peter Griffin moments, or any other unattractive behaviors.… Read more »

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Sentient
The Family Alpha, ya know the guy who’s wife cheated on him and he didnt find out for nine years. And he kept her.

Obviously I missed a memo. Got link / details?

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IRL
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@Sentient
Here are some lessons on marraige from The Family Alpha, ya know the guy who’s wife cheated on him and he didnt find out for nine years. And he kept her.

“2) Don’t make your marriage a business.”

Stated while ramping up a lifestyle coaching business around marriage and family.

“I was originally going to say, “Divorce is always an option.” but that has such a negative energy to it”

Especially if it could kill the brand. No pressure.

Don’t quit your 9 to 5 Hunter.

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I’ve disliked Hunter ever since I heard him blame single mother’s for fucked up kids while pretending that asshole fathers don’t exist. It was on one of the last Red Man groups.

You can’t bitch about women being cunts but let baby-trapped fathers and jealous faux-alphas slide for their horseshit attitudes towards their sons.

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No serious guy who has been through struggle would look up to that AJC guy, it’s so easy to recognize the non mental strength in the guy for all his physical strength you can just see the weakness because he has been pampered all his life, you can see in someones face when they have been through struggle, he most likely is secretly gay. The black guy has been through some struggle but make no mistake about it he is hustling hard also.

Who is the broad?

People become a a damm parody and they don’t even realize it.

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“The long term conspiracy is centered in the teacher’s colleges which shape the perspective given to the short term thinking.” @KFG, agreed it may be there that there is something organized. These teaching broads are pretty short sighted, even the smarter ones are hustling hard at the pecking order within the administrative ranks. It’s Animal Farm but the female version, they can’t project a couple of years into the future. I have to agree with some of the reading material I’ve been reading that the seeds of the downfall of the west were sown hundreds of years ago, perhaps in… Read more »

KL
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I don’t know about greyhounds, but the Red Pill works on my dog. “You cannot negotiate the desire to poop.”

liz
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“Favorite big sister and cheerleader” but no name?
Are we supposed to know who this is?

theasdgamer
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Feldman’s tweet is a joke. Even if he meant it seriously, it’s still a joke.

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KL I don’t know about greyhounds, but the Red Pill works on my dog. “You cannot negotiate the desire to poop.” You can teach a dog to do that in the yard rather than in the house, if the dog is smart enough. Some dogs are dumb as a box of rocks, though. The dog can learn maybe 100 words, but it will never actually learn to speak “human”. Therefore anyone who owns a dog must learn how to speak “dog”. The dog is wired to be part of a pack, it craves hierarchy and wants to know who is… Read more »

Fact
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For fucks sake. Is it Texas, or just southern culture in general, that leads the way in trad con white knight culture?

Working hand-in-glove with feminist dating app founder, Texas enacts new law. Dont believe for a second that this law will be applied “equally” between the sexes. Men will be 90% of those convicted, and for the 10% women they will receive lighter punishments. Because feminism is all about restricting male sexual behavior, while maximizing it for women.

Further proof that trad con white knights are just the usefull idiots of feminists.

https://www.inc.com/christine-lagorio-chafkin/texas-digital-photograph-law-bumble-whitney-wolfe-herd.html

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@j Thanks for the link on Family Alpha. I’m going to assume it’s true rather than a troll or something. Well, things happen, and girls getting back onto a carousel pony while a man is in basic or deployed is unfortunately not at all uncommon. Yeah, he shoulda known what was up back then, but he didn’t. Plenty of men have had their own “d’OH” moments learning the truth about women. He chose to keep her? Likely the children are a factor. It’s a cliche to see men staying with a contentious woman “for the sake of the children” but… Read more »

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@ Sentient

At first I thought you were joking with spoof photo about “patriarch” convention. Then I checked out Bitch Muscles twitter feed. Purple pill convention.

Sentient
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Fact

At first I thought you were joking with spoof photo about “patriarch” convention. Then I checked out Bitch Muscles twitter feed. Purple pill convention.

Yeah you can’t make this stuff up… lolz

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Fact
Purple pill convention.

Not a very dark shade of purple. You may be too generous there.

TT
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@AD

Since women-pedestaling and the climate emergency hoax are both objects of the intense propaganda run in the West, they both are found in the “opinions” of the propaganda-susceptible.

TT
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@Jorge Torres Of course the mother is in good faith. She just doesn’t know herself (let alone other women), she doesn’t even remember her standards for liking and not liking when she was a youth (and didn’t do calculations on prospective mates). She doesn’t know that she rebuffed the advances of Boy A because he was too candid, while she daydreamed about Boy B because Boy B gamed her. Most of what is charged to deception is actually done by self-deception. Only self-deception makes for great deception. You would expect the physically weaker sex having to rely much more on… Read more »

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On the blog post’s subject… hypergamy mixes with pride (or sense of power, it’s just a choice of words) to gender a schizophrenic state of mind. He must be superior to her, or he won’t be useful (she won’t love him lol). But if he is superior, then is he thinking he is… superior to her, and seeing her as his inferior? Aaaaargh, she is so upset now. Time to demand a bit of genuflection from him. If he denies it, her anger goes up: he’s so arrogant! If he obliges, then… what the hell? Is he no longer superior… Read more »

TT
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(Listening to a song with the phrase “People give good advice when they can no longer set a bad example”.)

Women want the good men, when they no longer hold hopes for the non-good ones.

SJF
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I look at the latest 21Con and “Red Man Group” content. And what I see is: “I’m a shiny object. Look at Me!”

Without much substance there.

SJF
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Mr.Fox(film) Mrs. Fox (female nature): I’m going to lose my temper now. Mr. Fox: When? Mrs. Fox: Right now. Mr. Fox: Well, when… [Mrs Fox slashes his face] Mr. Fox: OW! Mrs. Fox: Twelve fox years ago, you made a promise to me, while we were caged inside that fox trap, that if we survived, you would never steal another chicken, turkey, goose, duck, or a squab – whatever they are, and I believed you. Why? Why did you lie to me? Mr. Fox (male nature): Because I’m a wild animal. Mrs. Fox: You are also a husband and a… Read more »

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@SJF interesting fox story, It seems to be an immature male energy from Mr. Fox and a very mature feminine energy from Mrs. Fox In any case, as a young man I used to tell litterers to pick up their trash. Of course this led to a few confrontations. Being young and angry and up for it and righteous and reckless, I was fine with this. Then I had a long-term girlfriend who said straight out “if we have a family, you have to stop this.” Fast forward two decades later, now a father with a young boy (different woman)… Read more »

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@Just Beers An underlying theme in The Fantastic Mr. Fox is that the protagonist Mr. Fox sneakily embraces his base instincts and his natural fox self (that wants to steal chickens). And in his battle vs. the farmers he has irrational self confidence. He uses that self confidence prudently and with good measure and balance. But it is just a story. This fits in to Rollo’s original post in that boys are taught at a young age to suppress their true nature. And not always to serve the FI, but also to have an ordered society. As far as the… Read more »

Elek Szid
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But Rollo, doesn’t your whole philosophy predict this man should be divorced? How is he still married? A lot of incels would find daily abasement a small price to pay for a marriage.

Sentient
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comment image

Hunter answering the below:

Demonstrate how you felt when you found out your wife cheated on you and kept it secret for nine years right as you were starting a blog telling guys how to be their family’s “alpha”…

kfg
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” . . . doesn’t your whole philosophy predict this man should be divorced?”

No.

DinoTheRedPillDestroyer
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For those of us who don’t know the backstory on the 21 Convention, can you fill us in? I saw the blog posts about Rollo no longer attending and there being a legal dispute….but I don’t know those other people. Who are they and why is that photo funny? Thanks!

Jeremy
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@Rollo, An interesting tidbit in a story that seems relevant to this post of yours. When I grew up in the cult my whole family was in (If you’re new to my story, hold your surprise for another time), one of the common themes of angst among the ministry that recurred was trying to get young adults of parents in the church to inter-marry within the church. It was a huge problem. This was in the 80s and 90s, so take that as background/setting. Basically the ministry was so concerned about the lack of inter-marrying between their young adults that… Read more »

EhIntellect
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” It seems to be an immature male energy from Mr. Fox and a very mature feminine energy from Mrs. Fox” @ Just Beers Could be seen that way. That’s more aligned with a midlife crisis, flailing for meaning and she’s finger wagging him back into mediocrity. More likely….the dyadic nature of man is at issue. As in any good film, there’s an internal-external struggle and both must be intentionally recognized and purposefully executed for resolution. He is a fox. He must behave in that physical manner or he will perish or at least languish doing something he’s not made… Read more »

Jeremy
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“It doesn’t need explaining to those who understand it and can’t be explained to those who don’t.”

i.e., For posting his side of the story on therationalmale.com, Rollo is being sued for slander by wimps who won’t simply admit their error publicly and bury the conflict.

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“Again, we choose how to squeeze our juice. Some make it look easy. Self-help writers craft books laying out juice-squeezing cheat codes, effectively amputating how to squeeze juice well. Chad doesn’t think about being, well, Chad. Chad doesn’t behave that way. He has a congruent nature…accepting his mental, physical and emotional states as useful and applying them within that context. He recognized himself yet beyond the mental, physical and emotional. He unthinkingly, naturally, almost-genius-like separates his motivators into: 1) “I can manipulate the world and will do so as I and the world are designed…maximizing the juice for my squeeze.”… Read more »

Wildside
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The Book of Pook is a very enjoyable read. Talking of books, where did this guy come from? Somebody cited this book, wrote in 2016, when talking about the SMV.

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/15244776.Chris_Capetown

KL
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@anonymous reader – I truly meant you cannot negotiate the desire to poop. If my dog doesn’t need to poop, then I can’t force him. To the contrary, he will waste my time sniffing and peeing on every plant in the neighborhood. The most efficient tactic is to return home. Then he knows the tour is over, and poops … or not. You might call this a literal shit-test.

This is a metaphor for dating. If you duplicitously try to entertain a girl, then she will waste your time. You need to head home.

DR Smith
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Whoever David Feldman is, he is a first class idiot and a major tool. Same advice my Dad tried to give me on marriage – the old “yes, dear’ crap. Hated my Dad anyway, so did not listen to him…

Don’t ever argue with a woman; not because you know could never win, but because there is no point.

Fact
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@ Jeremy

“Rollo is being sued for slander by wimps who won’t simply admit their error publicly and bury the conflict.”

Bitch Muscles isn’t actually taking legal action against anybody, is he? Its all empty threat. Even if he had free legal representation, the judge would rule the complaint frivolous and force ADJ to pay Rollo’s legal defense expenses. ADJ is just doing the gamma male personality melt-down thing because that’s what gamma males do when they have no other cards left to play.

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I said to my new squeeze (17.5 years my junior and a fire-cracker in the sack) last night, before our second night & morning of very enthusiastic sex, “If you’re a good girl, i’ll fuck you over and over and over, but i won’t fuck you over…”, to which she just cooed, then got down, once again, to enthusiastic blow job business, all the while looking me in the eye. It was just an off the cuff remark, a bit of banter really, but she loved it. She later remarked, “getting you off makes me happy, Daddy”. Never abase yourself,… Read more »

Garnet
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Garnet
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The Silver Fox’s comment got me thinking: Can eating pussy be alpha? Or does it always count as abasement?

Not trolling. Would love to hear different perspectives on this, especially from the veterans (Blax, Sentient, kfg, etc).

Thanks.

Sentient
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Sentient
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Garnet

“Can eating pussy be alpha? Or does it always count as abasement?”

Like most things, it’s about the frame. If it’s something you are doing because you can’t help it, i.e. you are overcome, you want to like a lustful kiss and you are in control, that’s one thing. If it is a command performance or a game of PussyHero 2.0 so she “gets hers”, that’s another. And if you don’t want to at all and you still do – well that is abasement.

kfg
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kfg
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Mental point of origin, first, last and always.

EhIntellect
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Garnet,

Intent is everything. Some guys refuse on principle. I respect that. I like the funk and bedroom acrobatics. Wet pussy smell gets me hard. Operant conditioning, I suppose.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Cosign Sentient👍 True story ( sorry Scrib, wherever you are ) When I was. At the tender age of 13, I had a gf and logistics that made daily sex possible. The older guys in my neighborhood would attempt to give me tips and clues and what not, and one tip that caused great debate was ” eat pussy “. Some guys said going down between a girls legs was a degrading act, others said it wasn’t degrading and it was something that just happens in the inferno that is great sex. So I decided to try it on my… Read more »

Wildside
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Wildside
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If the woman is clean, I like it. It’s a turn on. But if she smells like fermenting home brew, no thank you.

walawala
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walawala
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@Garnet “Can eating pussy be alpha? Or does it always count as abasement?” It all gets down (no pun intended) on what YOU get out of it. From the perspective of an older guy who only bangs girls under 30, firstly no guys in their 20’s it seems are either doing it or are good at it. Secondly, it’s the quickest and best way to get a girl to orgasm just before you bang her. If she cums while you’re banging her she immediately bonds with you. That’s alpha. Do that a few times and girls will be craving it.… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Wala

You should have skipped my post and just stfu then.

I wasn’t going to comment on your weak ass ” get them to cum ” shit, so skip my penthouse forum thing and concentrate on your ” I only bang girls below 30 …makes me alpha “.

So if girls stop fucking you, you’ll crawl in a hole and die.😂😂😂😂

Frameless.

You’re probably a nice guy, but you’re a clown. Both can be true.

Garnet
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Garnet
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@ Sentient, kfg, EhIntellect, Blaximus, Wildside, and Walawala,

Thanks. There’s a lot to unpack here. It’s great to get different perspectives with the weight of experience behind them.

I personally get a kick out of it (TMI lol), but I find some girls’ enthusiasm drops over time (takes them longer to cum, if at all). I must be giving off some wrong subcomms. I’ll move over to the Field Reports thread.

Fact
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Fact
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60% american women are now dress size 12 or above.

Time to go international?

EhIntellect
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“60% american women are now dress size 12 or above.”

Thanks for that.

It’s a symptom not a diagnosis, guys. It’s not a display of power, it’s a national-scale suicide pact one bite at a time.

Meaninglessness in life renders meaninglessness in deatth…incel suicide, incel homicide, depression, cutting, tattoos, resting bitch faces, cynacism..all symptoms of frivolous momentary substitutes for self-esteem.

Sentient
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Sentient
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well a size 12 is not a size 12 anymore either…

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-womens-clothing-sizes-arent-what-they-used-to-be-11558690200

Sentient
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Sentient
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TLDR

“Thanks to shifting guidelines, today’s size 8 is yesterday’s size 16”

EhIntellect
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“So if girls stop fucking you, you’ll crawl in a hole and die.”

Hallelujah. Testify, brother Blax.

Sentient
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Sentient
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Here’s an interesting stance

“Truth is no longer supreme, just a factor to weigh.” — ADJ

https://mobile.twitter.com/beachmuscles/status/1166577314274131968

kfg
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kfg
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I’ve had to watch that chart unfold in real time. Bear in mind that in 1958 8 was average. The 1958 8. And bear in mind that average was average, not slim.

Fact
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Fact
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So in other words 60% of american males are going to have to grovel, or abase themselves, to get with a size 16 woman…? wtf

foxguy
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foxguy
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From the first time I saw ADJ on video, I knew something was off about the guy, many noticed this. Many questioned Rollo on his involvement with him prior to the split, Rollo compromised in order to try to go mainstream with the red pill which if you have really studied human beings without any blinders you know that will never work, because at heart human beings are wired for the social not the truth, Plato’s cave it’s what holds society together. We all make mistakes, hence I don’t hold it against Rollo but he is still associating with personalities… Read more »

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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Ladies clothing size inflation is such an obvious consumer marketing ploy, it is a testament to the tendency for value-ignorance and perception-obsession women generally have that the ladies sizing standards ever inflated. Men go into stores or buy online just to make sure they’re not walking around naked. Look only matters in that it fits properly, there’s no size obsession. If a guy has a 40-inch waist, so be it as long as what he’s wearing fits properly. But for ladies… if one brand of clothing fits them and lets them say they’re a size zero…. they’ll buy it purely… Read more »

EhIntellect
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“So in other words 60% of american males are going to have to grovel, or abase themselves, to get with a size 16 woman…? wtf” Untrue. It’s the other way around. The fatter the woman, the less incentive for a man to chase. Women will begrudgingly substitute absence of routine sex with trips, toys, education, more food. Fat women are some of the most depressing, insecure people to hang out with. Guys aren’t chasing. You might see Jack Sprat relationships and such but it’s not a preferred situation. The guy knows it. She knows it. Rollo posted a personal anecdote… Read more »

EhIntellect
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I’m no leftie, but the consumption lifestyle is a direct response to less intersexual comity. Lawyers note that increased gas price directly affects business. When gas is cheap people drive more and create more personal injury settlements. If men and women routinely found non-negotiated satisfaction from intersexual understanding and behaved such, who’d lose out most, if anyone? Men wouldn’t care to be such go-getters and tool collectors. Women wouldn’t feel such a need to fight social injustice baloney causes and get fat while doing it. Blax wrote yesterday about advertising and its effects on the psyche. If business can move… Read more »

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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“…but the consumption lifestyle is a direct response to less intersexual comity.”

Or is it that when you get a society/culture with no true survival worries, intersexual comity is far less important?

Remember, the biggest pregnancy event in modern history was a power outage in New York.

Coolio
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Coolio
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I’ve never seen so many people in one place that over-think something to death, to the point of being obsessed with it. Stop giving a shit about what other people think, and go do something. Here’s some advice for ya. Build it and they will come. The “it” is you. You’ve got to make yourself into the total package. Get off the internet and your other electronic devices that you have plugged into your ass and spend every free moment you have in the gym getting ripped and out making shitloads of money. You won’t have to do anything after… Read more »

Jeremy
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Jeremy
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@Coolio

Why make the assumption that some of us are “thinking it to death” ?
It is not only possible, it’s probable the people posting here are using spare brain cycles to contribute to the train of thought and they’re still doing everything you suggested.

Coolio
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Coolio
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J. No, it’s not possible – and it’s highly improbable. Most of the people writing shit down on here sound like a bunch of seventh graders.

EhIntellect
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“no true survival worries” Correct irt the animalistic nature of man. Sloth sets in when man or beast has sated his appetites. But that’s never enough as women and men both understand the finality of death and fear it. They realize the inexorable options. Hypergamy don’t care if your fridge isn’t working and people get busy making something of themselves beyond themselves. Example being a 28-35 year old woman. Some bury their heads to meaningless death, temporarily and successively satisfying the eat, drink, screw desires over and over. Not a bad deal if there’s nothing to live for beyond food… Read more »

Coolio
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Coolio
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J. Less than 1% of the people on the planet (much less) do what I suggested. All you gotta do is look around and observe the results.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Thanks Coolio.

That’s gotta be the absolute bestest advice anyone’s ever given here.

Recap: Get ripped. Get money ( mo’ money ). Women will throw themselves at you, and you won’t have to do anything.

Remember, rich ripped guys never ever have women issues at all. Don’t overthink ” it “.

So Let’s Go!!!! Last one to the Leg Machine buys Kale smoothies for everybody!!!! After the gym, we’re all going shopping for one of those money counting machines, because we’re gonna need it with all of the cash we will ( magically ) be making!!!

How?

…. don’t overthink it bruh.

EhIntellect
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Coolio, You write forcefully and that’s, well, cool. Since you’re on the ZFG and self improvement subject, tell us about yourself. You know, nothing too specific, age, body mass index, size of town you live in, notch count, are your parents alive or deceased, ever married, divorced, present relationship status…that should do. You don’t have any fear of telling us all that, do you? You sound like you got your shit together the way you speak truth to power. No fear, I like that. I look forward to your reply and thank you for the scolding. We could learn a… Read more »

SJF
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SJF
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Coolio Before we listen to your hectoring lecturing, tell us your bona fides. Both your evidence of your good faith and genuiness and your evidence of your qualifications and achivements. Thanks. Just as you have no idea what some of us are up to in real life, we have no idea of what you are. And why you think your thoughts are universal praxeology. If you haven’t noticed, each and every one comes here from a different set of circumstances and a different reality. “Less than 1% of the people on the planet (much less) do what I suggested.” And… Read more »

Wildside
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Wildside
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Just getting the popcorn. Go.

Sentient
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Sentient
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what kind of retard is this “Coolio”? Let’s examine some of its claims… “Stop giving a shit about what other people think, “ Followed by giving you something an other person thinks… “and go do something.” “You’ve got to make yourself into the total package.” Oh is that all? How can I do this? I want it! “spend every free moment you have in the gym getting ripped and out making shitloads of money. “ Oh… I see… GENIUS! Nobel Prize and MacArthur Genius Award in one guy… But I have to ask, I’m curious, just how many people can… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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” . . .go do something. Here’s some advice for ya. Build it and they will come. The “it” is you. ”

You couldn’t be more right, and I’m going to be right on it, as soon as Doc Ido finishes building “it,” my new body, “me,” so he can take my brain out of the jar connected to the Internet.

At the moment, however, I can only dream of having an ass to jack into.

Coolio
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Coolio
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Blaximus. How you are going to make money is your problem. What you decide to do with your life comes from within. Not from somebody else. You’re gonna have to bust your ass. Same goes for getting ripped. Instead of the pansy smoothies, I recommend a shooter of your choice with a beer chaser. No umbrella’s. EI. Talking about yourself on the internet is for people who make shit up and lie through their teeth. Most of the time they’re talkin’ smack and full of shit. Putting up personal information is for pin heads. SJF. My advice will work for… Read more »

Coolio
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Coolio
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kfg. You sound like somebody who wants the rest of the world to hand you everything. The harder you work, the luckier you’re gonna get. Go get busy.

kfg
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kfg
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“You sound like somebody who wants the rest of the world to hand you everything.”

Certainly. You try it and see what it’s like having everything tubed to you, you insensitive, ableist clod.

Coolio
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Coolio
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kfg. What’s your physical condition(s) / disability(-ies) ?

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