The Purple Pill


Four years ago I wrote a post titled Could a Man Have Written This? I opened that post with a short, I thought positive, critique of an article by Mona Charen in which she in turn took a then relatively unknown Kate Bolick to task over her All the Single Ladies article. You can read the whole post; it was one of my earliest essays on this blog and, as I’ve come to realize, one of my more prophetic ones too.

My intent in that essay wasn’t to call Charen to the carpet, but rather to illustrate the point that only women are allowed to write an article that criticizes issues specific to women. It is an indictment of, and evidence of, the feminine centric social order we find ourselves in today that any man brazen enough to write verbatim the same offering would be dismissed and passed over as a misogynists at best – lose his long career and personal life at worst.

No man could write this critique and be taken seriously, and therein lies the danger in women co-opting the message the manosphere has been compiling for 12 years now. The environment is such that anything remotely critical a man might offer is instantly suspect of misogyny or personal (‘he’s bitter”) bias, however, couch that message in a female perspective, play Mrs. Doubtfire, and you’ll at least reach the audience beginning with something like validity.

Not surprisingly this element of message delivery is lost on most women. Adopting the male perspective seems novel, something that might set a woman apart in a sea of common fem-speak, but it’s important for Men to understand that anything positive a ‘pro-man’ female author has to offer is still rooted in her female reality. In girl-world, what directly benefits women necessarily is presumed to benefit men, so what we’ll see is a new wave of female bloggers bastardizing the world-worn ideas that the manosphere has put together and repackaging it in a female context. It’s Man Up 2.0; make a token push to “re-empower” men just enough for them to idealize the romanticism of the responsibilities required for living up to women’s expectations.

I daresay this last part is exactly what the manosphere is seeing now. Like any other Male Space the Feminine Imperative makes it its business to ensure that ‘overseers in the locker room’ – in this case the social awareness of the Red Pill –  are emplaced to control a narrative and a condition to suit its purposes. That may sound conspiratorial, but there is no need for a concerted effort when women’s natural, fluid interest in attention and indignation will motivate them to co-opt the narrative of Red Pill awareness.

From Male Space:

Overseers in the Locker Room

The second purpose in the goal of female inclusion into male space is really a policing of the thought dynamics and attitudes of the men in that space. When women are allowed access to the locker room the dynamic of the locker room changes. The locker room can take many different shapes: the workplace environment, the sports team, the group of all-male coders, the primarily male scientific community, the ‘boys club’, the group of gamer nerds at the local game store, even strip clubs and the sanctuary you think your ‘man cave’ is – the context is one of women inserting themselves into male space in order to enforce the dictates of feminine social primacy.

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting to maintain the former level of interest in the endeavor.

Men unaccustomed to having women in their midst generally react in two ways; According to their proper feminized conditioning, they embrace the opportunity to impress these ‘trailblazing’ women (hoping to be found worthy of intimacy) with their enthusiastic acceptance of, and identification with, their feminine overseer(s), or they become easy foils of an “out moded” way of thinking that the new ‘in-group’ happily labels them with.

Once the feminine-primary in-group dynamic is established a ‘feminine correct’ social frame follows. This feminine correction restructures the priorities of goals, and validates any accomplishments, in terms of how they reflect upon the feminine as a whole. Thus any in-group success is perceived as a feminine success in male space, while in-group failures or simple mediocrity is either dismissed entirely or blamed on out-group men’s failure to comply with, or the rejection of, the Feminine Imperative’s ‘correcting’ influence on the in-group.

It’s very important for Red Pill aware men, manospherean men, to keep this dynamic in mind when they are assessing and evaluating the various messages and intents of the men from whom they’re considering taking advice from.

The Purple Pill

In the community, The Purple Pill is a euphemism for men who’ve become Red Pill aware, but for a variety of insecurities have decided to temper the uncomfortable truths of that awareness with their previous Blue Pill hopes. The harsh, ugly truths that the nature of women, the nature of Hypergamy and the natural selection process of intersexual dynamics presents to these guys becomes too much to bear. It’s all encompassing; when a man begins to see his surroundings with a Red Pill lens the difficult truth needs for an optimistic solution to counter what would otherwise be nihilism.

As I detailed in A New Hope, there’s a want for some sort of Red Pill solution in achieving Blue Pill fantasized goals.

Learn this now, you will never achieve contentment or emotional fulfillment in a blue pill context with red pill awareness.

I’ve included as my blog picture the first and last book covers published by former Frat Boy PUA Tucker Max. I could just as easily have used Neil Strauss’ most recent book, or Athol Kay and Married Man Sex Life as an example, but I think Tucker’s covers tell the story better than a thousand words. When women, women’s interests and women’s sexual strategies become an endemic part of that man’s previous message or a male-specific social movement, the fundamental, underlying impetus becomes compromised. It becomes a tool of the Feminine Imperative.

The present condition of the Mens Human Rights movement is a glaring example of this insaturation of feminine influence. At some stage along the evolution of this otherwise laudable movement its leaders recognized that their best messengers – really their only options – for their grievances were women. Our feminine-primary social order only allows women to be critical of other women, thus the only avenue became investing their message in the women who would voice it for them.

Although I’m cautiously optimistic about the production and release of The Red Pill movie in the coming year I have to temper that with the knowledge that a documentary about the MRM will, once again, owe its credibility to a self-identifying feminist, Cassie Jaye, to tell the story for them. For all of the reassurances and promises of objectivity on her part, the subplot of the documentary prominently features her self-doubt and questioning of her own feminist beliefs during the process of her making the documentary.

On the surface this female self-discovery probably seems like a confirmation of purpose to the men of the MRM, but from a Red Pill perspective – the true Red Pill awareness neither she nor the notables of the MRM are willing to acknowledge – this is yet one more example of the innate feminine solipsism we’ve dissected for a decade now. From Eat, Pray Love to Gone Girl, the female self-discovery script is almost cliché now, but I expect that the bulk of the publicity and interviews of Jaye that follow this film will be less about the MRM and more focused on her very predictable “personal growth journey”.

As I stated in Male Space, the purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. This has been a constant bugbear for the Mens Rights Movement, and is the primary reason they must maintain an inclusionary egalitarian / equalist aspect to their message.

The present state of the MRM is just one of the more apparent examples of men’s groups inviting this feminine influence to ostensibly validate their message. There are others. Tucker Max’s most recent venture appears to be selling himself as a reformed cad who followed the romantic comedy script and is now appeasing his wife’s influence by helping men better understand how to better accommodate Hypergamy.

From The Script:

For women, the only thing better than experiencing this script vicariously through movies and stories is to see it happen live. David D’Angelo, Tucker Max are a few manosphere notable who’ve played the come-full-circle surrender to the script. There are far more guys who play it in a more visual sense (the repentant ‘Womanizer’ episodes on the Tyra Banks show comes to mind), but no one really remembers them, and certainly not in the ‘sphere. While there’s a sense of vindication for women to have a guy surrender his anti-social (i.e. anti-feminine primary) lifestyle and beliefs in favor of a feminine paradigm, and “settle down” into a feminine framed, normalized monogamy, surrender is still surrender. Essentially the strong vibrant man who posed such a challenge to her, the one who’s steadfast determination and conviction made him a man she was hot for as well as one she could respect, loses his status.

He’ll say, hey, you don’t know where I’m at in life, you don’t know the experiences I’ve had, life has taught me the value of compromise. Women fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate a feminine reality, but if there’s one thing women outright despise, one thing men foolishly believe women should be able to appreciate, it’s a man willing to compromise the beliefs he’s established his reputation and integrity upon in order to facilitate her feminine reality. That’s the definition of a sell-out.

As I said there are many other examples; Athol Kay and the revenue dependence he now has on his pandering to a female audience (and the inclusion of his wife and other women in his message). Evan Mark Katz’s pandering almost exclusively to upper middle class women bemoaning the same tired tropes of  “no good men” that led them to their spinsterhood in the first place. There are more, but in all these cases these men’s financial livelihood depends on their capacity to include a feminine-primary influence into their dubious male space.

This Purple Pill dynamic has also found its way into mainstream religion for much of the same reasoning these ‘Dating Coaches’ find it necessary to cater their message to a feminine-primary audience. Most will season-to-taste just a bit of whatever they’re peripherally aware of about Red Pill truth, but only enough to appear in touch with the burden of men’s performance owed to the women that make up their audiences. Like the Dating Coaches, the Purple Pill Pastor understands that his revenue depends on hold women’s attention and usually this comes in the form of playing to women’s inherent need for indignation.

And finally, there are the apologist,…

This is an old video, but it’s brought to you by the same faction that’s now fronting conferences like the Conscious Men Summit. It pains me to see Dr. Warren Farrell speaking/endorsing this new age masculine apologist movement, especially since he’s a featured interview in The Red Pill movie for the MRM. Farrell has always been an adherent of the same gender-equal fantasy he learned from 70’s feminism, but I do credit him with aiding in my own unplugging when I read Why Men Are The Way They Are.

I suppose I shouldn’t be too shocked, but the masculine apologists of this century also have a need to mix in just enough Red Pill awareness to appeal to, what they hope are the more dominant sensibilities of men. New age (really reheated 70s) masculine apologist still cling to the fallacies inherent in gender equalism, but they transition this into a restitution script they believe women will appreciate in an age where women despise their pathetic acquiescence to the Feminine Imperative they’re oblivious of.

If these guys’ message makes your stomach turn, well, I share in your disgust, but it’s important to remember that in the coming years men like this will attempt to co-opt into their message just enough of what the Red Pill as a collective has developed for the past 13-14 years.

After Roosh decided to set fire to the Red Pill community in an effort to create his own brand in neomasculinity he put out a video in which he laid claim to having ‘fathered’ the Red Pill. Now we have the MRM making similar claims of ownership to this collective with their upcoming documentary. The cover story is of course “only in name, because no one can really ‘own’ the Red Pill”, but their notables understand the conflation all too well. Furthermore we have the influences of the ‘overseers in the locker room’ effect with the likes of Tucker Max and other half-measure Purple Pill fence riders.

Back in 2011 I anticipated women writers co-opting the Red Pill and acknowledging what of it that serves their sexual strategy (Open Hypergamy) and in claiming authorship of the Red Pill they also claim the authority to define it in the ways that most fluidly serve the Feminine Imperative. The Purple Pill pushers will use what ever conveniently complements and reinforces their Blue Pill insecurities while sweeping the ugly, harsh, unflattering truth of the Red Pill aside or disqualifying them as the negativity of misogynistic complainers.

While I am humbled to be accounted as one of the Red Pill’s prominent writers I will never lay claim to having created it. The Red Pill in its truest sense belongs to the collective that has contributed to it as a whole. It belongs to the men who’ve fostered it, who’ve risked their livelihoods and families apart from it to make other men aware; it belongs to those who understand that its objectivity is what’s kept it open and honest, discussable and debatable.

At the Man In Demand conference in Vegas I opened my talk by asking those seated what they believed the Red Pill was. I did so because I believe that in the coming years there will be a concerted effort to claim authorship and definition rights to the “Red Pill”, and it’s important for anyone identifying as being Red Pill aware to acknowledge that what we’re a part of is a collective experience. We are, we become, the developments of a totality of men’s experiences across the world.

Beware of any man or woman attempting to lay claims of ownership of the Red Pill. Beware of anyone defining this awareness, distorting these truths, to accommodate their narratives.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

281 comments on “The Purple Pill

  1. Attempts to “co-opt” the Red Pill will only intensify into the future. The System needs to neutralize it, as it understands that within the RP is a threat that, if left unchecked, could prove existential in the long run. As you have noted before Rollo, the System tries to convince Men to follow Rules that no longer apply. A mass awareness of the “rule change” casts too great of a specter of social and economic uncertainty to be ignored.

  2. Do you think that if the Red Pill ever goes mainstream, that it will obviously be a watered down version of Purple Pill? Or are you saying that it IS mainstream and this mainstream version IS the Purple Pill.

    Or the more provocative question… is the Red Pill slowly becoming more and more adulterated and what will be thought of as “Red Pill” will actually be Purple Pill?

    And I guess I should read more about it, but I don’t fully understand the differences between Purple Pill and Red Pill ideologies. I don’t even have a complete grasp of the Red Pill, just parts.

  3. “I believe that in the coming years there will be a concerted effort to claim authorship and definition rights to the “Red Pill”, and it’s important for anyone identifying as being Red Pill aware to acknowledge that what we’re a part of is a collective experience.”

    It is unsettling to think a day may come when the term “Red Pill” has become so hijacked by the feminine imperative that it will be applied to the bluest of Blue Pill men, a day when it no longer applies to a small group of radical thinkers, but used by the average man in describing himself, and considered socially acceptable to do so.

    It will also be an incredible insult to Red Pill men who discovered it when it still meant something and were willing to change their way of thinking, their lifestyle, and their habits in order to improve themselves in spite of the pain, hardship, difficulty, or loss of relationships it entailed.

    That’s what the FI does; it take any idea that poses a threat, hijacks the label or name, and changes its meaning until it fits within the parameters of its own frame. Just look at the church.

  4. Yes, to paragraph two.

    ” I don’t fully understand the differences between Purple Pill and Red Pill ideologies. ”

    Purple pill is trying to use red pill awareness to achieve blue pill results. It can’t work because while blue pill is an ideology, red pill is not.

    The woman in red does not exist. It’s just a construct, an illusion. You cannot use the knowledge that it’s just a construct to generate it outside of the matrix where shit gets real.

  5. “That’s what the FI does; it take any idea that poses a threat, hijacks the label or name, and changes its meaning until it fits within the parameters of its own frame.”

    War is peace, Brother.

  6. There is a very fluid nature to the Internet and that supports the maintenance of Red Pill wisdom. To be sure, the MSM and the feminine imperative will try co-opting Red Pill elements. This will merely cause a shift to another ‘net venue for guys who aren’t into watered down, purple pill version of this approach to life. For example, The Red Pill subreddit has over 136K members and several spin-off subreddits. The members and moderators do a very good job with keeping to Red Pill wisdom. That subreddit is worth checking out whether one gets involved or not.

  7. Yeah, Warren Farrell. I was quite excited when I first read The Myth of Male Power some 15 years ago – until I got to the last chapter, where he presents his solution: that the sexes should be even more alike. Shows the real power of FI conditioning: he’s a smart guy, but even after all the research, examination and thinking he’s done, he still doesn’t get it. I really liked his image of the “hormone-induced fog” in which most men live out their lives; unfortunately it seems he himself can’t see clearly through it.

  8. I think this is a relevant question: would having a more mainstream “Purple Pill” (possibly even passing off as genuine Red Pill by co-opting the name) lead more or less men to find out AND accept the genuine Red Pill?

    I ask because as far as I remember, I came through Athol Kay’s site before I reached the Rational Male.

    I was able to figure out that Red matches reality better than Purple or Blue does, but I have to give some (or a lot) of credit to Rollo’s skill in describing RP in a very rational way (let’s say that if I had only found Roissy or Roosh, I might well have believed the world was Purple rather than Red).

  9. Hey Dragonfly, I think it can NEVER be mainstream. If so, it will be watered down. Take your article you wrote about how women should admire their husbands. Something like that will not ever be promoted by the mainstream.
    Roosh for example, did an interview with Dagonet and Christian McQueen over a year ago where he talked about how men need to be famous. So the next thing you know, he attempts to go mainstream by creating a scene, but Rollo and the others in Vegas meet without a mainstream blip on the radar.
    It can never be mainstream, it would lose its edge/truth in doing so. It would be nice to loosen divorce laws or reverse them and other anti-male legislation, but I just don’t see that happening.
    We are ran by betas. They are everywhere. The Media, churches, schools, ect… The beta makes are more of a threat than the women, because they always cock block real men and take the side of women thinking they’ll earn brownie points or screw some of them. It’s pathetic.

  10. I think a number of the original authors about game were a good percent charlatan. I’ve heard that Tucker Max’s stories had really started as just kind of locker room lies, and then people started to think that it actually happened and that was what became the basis for the book. Neil Strauss I think BSs alot of what was in his book The Game. I just read something he wrote about polyamory, and having gone to an orgy in Paris, and just from his own descriptions of what he was thinking about in his relationships, and how he acted…its clear this is not a man much less a man to be followed. And the image doesn’t really jive with the guy presented in The Game either. If you reread The Game with your BS meter on full, like you might in a locker room, it completely changes the book. I also had a friend who ended up doing a project with him in person and was unimpressed. Roosh has done some good business things, but I remember seeing his old flickr account with pictures of his travels in South America, and it was full of awkward fotos of him being the guy in a corner with a drink, and plenty of girls who were dogs. He only had one picture of a cute girl giving him attention. Warren Farrel had been on the board of NOW, so you have to really wonder how deep down the blue hole someone would have to go to manage that and even though he has some interesting things to say, i think there is just something instinctually unmasculine about him. The internet seems to be quite a mine-field with so many false prophets for the manosphere. Of course thats not to say that it isn’t without value, it has changed my life and my perspective so many ways. As always the basic formula remains no matter where it comes from remains-keep what works, discard what is useless and go forward with courage.

  11. The introduction of the feminine into the masculine space is inherently and irreversibly destructive.

    The tiniest drop of ink in the water changes its purity for ever.

    That is the design and the intent.

    Where a male space exists, the feminine does not have power. The feminine is jealous of power and feels threatened by the existence of power it does not control.

    Hence the intrusions, the co-opting, and the insinuation and reframing and infection and narrative pushing that we observe.

    Holding frame isn’t just about passing shit tests.

    It is about preserving masculinity in the world, and upholding the achievement and dialogue of your brothers without infection.

    Have a cigar, Mr. Tomassi.

    You’ve once more called out the vivid realities of the world.



  12. So basically, purple pills are the churchians of the red pill: only picking the messages people(women) want to hear while hiding/distorcing/reframing the more unconfortable truths or statements.

  13. Dragonfly

    The first time I read about the red pill was … in Why Men Love Bitches

    The same criticisms that feminists make the red pill, can be all self-help books for women on issues of relationships.

    Women are empowering them with the red pill in TV Show, self-help books, romance novels, movies (Twilight, 500 days summer (the man can not do hypergamy)).

    It will be fun as society destroys all forms of red pill to men, while women dream all a real man.

    haha women say one thing but do another, but the fault is men

  14. Lack of masculinity in modern man makes women want more and more strongest forms of hyper masculinity

    “Pulp romance novels featuring badboys, jerkboys, and yes, rapeboys, are a $1.4 billion-a-year market (consumed almost entirely by women). Erotica-slash-porn for women is by far the most popular book genre.Pulp romance novels featuring badboys, jerkboys, and yes, rapeboys, are a $1.4 billion-a-year market (consumed almost entirely by women). Erotica-slash-porn for women is by far the most popular book genre.”

  15. I heard Max’s interview by Dr Drew and bought the book. Mistake. According to him I need to understand that a woman responds with a nuclear rejection because she is physically afraid of me, as if being able to attract male attention is only a source of fear and never a source of power. I stopped reading there.

    He also disavowed everything else he wrote as “funny stories” and only idiots would have used them for dating advice.

    One decent takeaway, be attractive by appearing “successful at life”.

  16. In regards to Dragonfly’s question, I think Dark Triad Man nailed the distinction very well. The Red Pill discussions and advocacy are aimed at advancing male interests and The Masculine Imperative.

    “Where a male space exists, the feminine does not have power. The feminine is jealous of power and feels threatened by the existence of power it does not control.”

    Even though the comments section of TRM is open and (uncensored except for obvious spam) notice how the feminine imperative and women commenters cannot gain any traction at all. It never happens. That does not mean women are not welcome. They are for their input and discussion points. See how that works?

    It has been said that Purple Pill is a moniker that means that a male, for example, has not committed entirely to the Red Pill. And perhaps not committed to the Blue pill either. So one might take “Purple Pill” to mean they agree with aspects of each pill but side with neither.

    By the same token, it would be disingenuous to have a woman say that by being Red Pill, she is entirely on the side of men. It can’t be. She has her own biases as a woman to embrace and contend with. Nothing wrong with a woman being or claiming to be Red Pill, but she cannot be all in on the masculine male imperative, nor truly be aligned with the male experience because she is feminine. If she were to be all in with the male red pill she would have to abdicate her true nature as a feminine woman. She is not entirely an advocate for the male imperative although she may embrace positive masculinity in males.

    This is an example of how a poster on The Purple Pill reddit described The Red Pill Woman reddit bias.


    “RPW is red because it subscribes to RP theory. But they often give the exact opposite advice than TRP does, because no woman wants to be a slut pumped and dumped, nor do they want to have to settle for a beta bux. Sexual strategies are currently in opposition. RPW theory is about getting a high value men to commit, then being perfect First Mate to the worthy Alpha Bucks, and limiting all SMP engagements outside of that (no cock carousel etc.) They embrace the evolutionary models for male attraction cues so keep themselves in shape and feminine (high SMV) but this is to maintain at optimal hypergamic potential to attract ABs. Some I understand have harems of beta orbiters, others limit relations with all men except their Captain (or future Captain). They are also red in that they are open, frank and proud of their hypergamy, as well as being extremely critical of betas and omegas, filtering out any man with marked beta Frame/omega traits. However, they also have to swallow elements of the pill themselves. They develop stoicism over men’s shallow nature, and polygamous nature-the tendency for Alphas to cheat.”

    You see how that works. The Red Pill male manosphere community will advocate for the best interests of a Beta Bux type of man. The Red Pill will advocate for him being better at being a masculine male in order to serve his interests and the interests of the masculine imperative. A red pill woman would or should not do so (a Beta Bux male is invisible to her). A red pill woman would attempt to change an Alpha Fux into an Alpha Bux (it serves her best interest), while and Alpha fux does not give a fuck about turning over the bucks or committing (it is not in his best interest).

  17. Rollo has pointed the feminine dominance in culture/frame thru out his writings. It is last the last thing an MRA can understand…like a frog being boiled in water or not seeing the forest for the trees. I think Cassie Jaye does not totally get it. Watched her 2 hour interview and she states she is still a feminist and states she is still fighting for feminist issues but does not elaborate what they are. I really do not think she truly understands men’s issue’s (still view’s everything thru a feminist lens) and is using this as a platform for bigger and better things to come in her future.

  18. It’s indicative of what Rollo is talking about when men scramble to respond to women even on this blog.

    She will never be able to understand the true motivations of a man taking the Red Pill, because they’re based solely on men’s experiences, and mistakes based on his past actions.

  19. Fucking lol at that image again. I love it.

    That Red Pill movie is going to be fucking great. I’ve watched interviews and shit with the chick by skeptical guys trying to figure out where she’s at and just from the footage in the trailer you can see she’s going to hoist a lot of psycho third-wave feminism wwith their own petard. Like she shows Big Red the victim in the trailer, but we all know what other classic Big Red footage is going to be shown and NO ONE can view that Big Red footage and listen to her sob story and not go “holy shit this chick is bat-shit”. And Jaye has clearly been converted but doesn’t want to spoil the reveal because it’ll get people to watch the movie if she keeps it under wraps…she’ll still say she’s a feminist and she’ll classify Big Red as a crazy third-wave feminist no true scotsman etc and she’ll say while some MRAs are crazy assholes there ARE some legitimate views and I put my blessing on those views as a woman so now we can actually talk about them.

    And we can be like wah wah that’s unfair it’s gay that a chick has to bring up the issues (speaking of gay, Milo Yiannopolous has said repeatedly that he loves to abuse the fact that he’s gay to be able to get away with saying all this stuff that, if he were a straight white male, would get him eviscerated and shut down before he can talk, but as a flamboyantly charming gay guy he can bring up all these issues and people will let him speak), and some MRAs are miffed that people might assosciate “those misogynists over at The Red Pill reddit forum” with them because of the title and bla bla bla

    But that’s all short-sighted bullshit. The reality is that the mainstream media will paint us ALL into one group, we are ALL Elliot Rogers to them, MGTOW, TRP, PUA, Manosphere, NeoRooshCult, etc it’s all the same shit to them. No one gives a shit about nuances. And the feminists and a ton of Blue Pill men and women will hate-watch this thing and probably still brush it all off.

    But that doesn’t matter…all that matters right NOW is that through whatever means possible, whether it’s an awesome gay dude or an open-minded chick or this comment section or RSD vids or Sandman’s videos or CH’s articles or the TRP forums or A Voice For Men or EVEN Roosh’s cult forum or a shitty Dr Oz interview, those men out there who feel lost and confused and frustrated by the reality this Blue Pill society has conditioned them into accepting catch a GLIMPSE that there MIGHT be some answers out there for them, that their frustrations might be justified, that there might be literature or videos that can clear up confusion and ultimately help get them on a better path.

    Down the road we can all worry about factions and “well you’re not a TRUE this and that if you think this and that”. But right now it’s about getting the message out there to all these guys who have no idea forums like this with answers like these even EXIST. We need a mass unplugging and Cassie Jaye’s documentary is going to help with that HUGE because that thing is going to be hate-fucked across the internet and be impossible for people to ignore and the people she’s interviewing are as rock solid as it gets for the MRA scene even if the message they get out there isn’t perfect by Red Pill standards. We just need men to wake up right now, that’s top priority as far as I’m concerned.

    “The Purple Pill pushers will use what ever conveniently complements and reinforces their Blue Pill insecurities while sweeping the ugly, harsh, unflattering truth of the Red Pill aside or disqualifying them as the negativity of misogynistic complainers.”

    This is why it’s retarded how the TRP forums hate on PUAs. TRP and the Manosphere only exist BECAUSE PUA got the ball rolling (not that TRP/Mano didn’t take it in a different direction, though that’s debatable ’cause once The Game came out PUA also started focusing on overall self-development too so the timeline gets fuzzy in that period, but like my point is PUAs (and sadly the RJ NLP shit lol) were the ones who were like “look this is a skillset you can get BETTER at”)…and yet I’m seeing posts on TRP like “Who’s this Tyler guy? Why should I listen to THIS asshole?” and guys making fun of Mystery Method and bragging that they’d never read that garbage. Like are you fucking kidding me? lol Guys should be looking at every resource possible, ESPECIALLY rock solid oldschool shit, and adapting it to their new mindsets. It’s all laid out there in the old texts. I’m reading this dude’s longass 3 part “Machiavellion Game part 1-3” thing on TRP because everyone’s sucking his dick over there and I’m like cool maybe there’s some new insights into this, it’s got like 3 pages of prologue build-up to the drawn out Field Report…all the dude is fucking doing is running basic Mystery Method group theory, using preselection/pivots from Mystery Method, and just following the Mystery Method “make her chase you” push/pull isolate and escalate bla bla bla It’s literally just Day One teaching from a Mystery Method seminar but everyone in the thread is shitting bricks with their jaws dropped and eyes wide like the guy flew down from the heavens to show them the world.

    And the funniest part is that that guy probably doesn’t even REALIZE he’s just running basic Mystery Method because he’s probably never even READ Mystery Method since he’s hyping his own “tactic” up without acknowledging it and says he came up with it on the fly…guess what you could’ve shaved years off your learning curve if you had gotten past the fuzzy hat and read the basic oldschool literature that spelled this all out for you step by step lol

    And the Manosphere isn’t immune to this shit. My first comment ever was on a CH post about BradP’s Horse Girl routine making fun of it because CH didn’t understand the context or presentation of it and CH was basically shitting on PUA the same way Roosh and TRP and a lot of the Manosphere, MRAs/MGTOWs etc do. So I jumped in to explain how and why the routine works and what the nuances and shit are, trying to prevent that divide. That’s why I’m still here, I know a lot of you guys aren’t actually out there tearing up nightclubs and shit, but without at least one legit PUA around this place will descend into the exact same shit Feminists do “don’t listen to THOSE guys, THEY don’t know what they’re talking about, they’re just dancing monkeys with silly routines faking it and girls can TELL in a long term relationship” because so many guys coming here want to hold onto that belief instead of actually looking at PUA shit and going “oh you know what, this makes sense”. They won’t open Mystery Method but they’ll read my writing because it’s in the comment section and over time they’ll go “shit I can’t really argue with what he’s saying, I see it happening in front of me now that I’m looking for it, maybe this PUA thing isn’t so gimmicky manipulative retarded after all” lol

    That’s why I post shit like this:

    To help keep shit in check. I literally do a CTRL-F search for the word “PUA” to look for what incorrect stuff people are trying to say about it to clarify lol

    In conclusion, here’s one of my fav Tyler vids related to Rollo’s article about presenting this stuff to the mainstream “Society Must Stay Orderly! — What The Mainstream Isn’t Supposed To Know About Sex And Success”:

    And another super-fav, Tyler on how the masses don’t WANT nuanced points (which is why they don’t give a shit if MRAs aren’t TRP etc we’re all the same to them and will be presented as such by the media):

    The good part is that we had such a head start underground with the internet being off the radar that it’ll be hard for someone to co-opt the red pill. The TRP moderators do a good job of deleting and weeding out retarded shit, and there’s just so much content out there from all these guys like RSD, Sandman, AVFM, etc that even if someone tries to claim they’re the father of all this shit and you should only listen to them, Google will provide links to ALLLLLL this other shit and people will find the rest of it.

    If they tried to co-opt this back in like 2005, we’d be fucked lol But now? There’s no stopping this train, only throwing shit on the tracks hoping to derail it momentarily.

  20. @toolate
    “I really do not think she truly understands men’s issue’s (still view’s everything thru a feminist lens) and is using this as a platform for bigger and better things to come in her future.”

    I say it doesn’t matter if she DOES. All that matters is that she presents a fair balanced representation of men’s issues, which it looks like she’s going to do, facts and logic, and show the bad behavior of feminists and show data that can’t really be argued (like footage of how men are treated in media or those social experiments etc) so that guys out there, living in frustration and depression, can go “holy shit SOMEONE is telling me that all these thoughts and feelings I have might be valid…I need to look into this more” and pull up Google.

    Jaye could stay a full out feminist and say flat out at the end “But then Paul Elam raped me and now I’m going to get fat and shave my head into a pink mohawk and double down on making sure people know how oppressed Emma Watson the rich celebrity moviestar is”, but it won’t matter as long as the footage in the movie represents the men’s rights side fairly which, judging by the people she’s interviewing and the snippets in the trailer, it looks like she’ll be doing.

    Men may still be demonized in the end, just like now, and not a single feminist will cave an inch and tons of Blue Pill people will reject and double-down on their hate.

    But we’ll reach another handful of men out there, desperate for answers, and that’s how we win. An inch at a time underground in the shadows as men who need us find us, just like we’ve done it since the beginning.

  21. I had never seen that dear woman apologist video before…

    All I can say is…


    Holy fuck, just cut your dick off and be done with it.

    One day reality is gonna drop a nice big bucket of cold water on all these sleeping pussies, and it is gonna be ugly.

    Purple pill: a way for women to interfere with and control male spaces, a way for a subset of red pill authors to capitalize on a growing movement, and a way for select men to rationalize away and sugar coat the bitterness of the red pill.

    Its just another way for men to avoid the pain that is living in their own frame and MPO, by subscribing to someone else’s frame (feminized red pill), but giving their egos “hope” that they are on the right path to righting the wrongs they feel in their man balls, but refuse to consciously acknowledge in their heads.

  22. Ya Really brings up a great point, even a glimpse/water downed version of the Red Pill message for the lost, confused, beta guys is better than no exposure at all. But to Rollo’s point, it does take a woman to send the message of anything revolving what Men are experiencing, and anything “Red Pill Related” to get a sniff in today’s mainstream media. The message the media has will always be watered down, or fit the narrative of the FI. For example, look at all the new articles on Transgender children, we weren’t even talking about them a few years back, but the “freak mafia” (Roissy term fits well) jams this down our throat as “normal” and “common”. If the FI deems it acceptable, they push it…ever notice its just transgender men “transitioning” to women, rarely the reverse? With the media, their motto is ” the more people on the FI narrative, the better”, in this case even “women” with a penis.

    I think Tucker Max, and Purple Gang” are really men who have not “Killed The Inner Beta”. They meet the most attractive women that really connects with them, or they get tired, after all these years, and succumb to the negative tropes of being labeled “misogynist” or “pig”, and they deep down want to be more universally liked, accepted, and more importantly what Rollo pointed out, financially. They finally meet “the one”, and all of a sudden all those red pill truths are for the “other girls…, not my girl she’s not like that, she’s agrees with me, she gets it.”…I have a few red pill women in my life, does that mean they are immune to acting Hypergamorous? Hell no….I mean look at Tucker’s cover, was it HIS idea to have her and the baby in the cover? I doubt that, again once these guys have a woman that fits “what they’ve been looking for all their life”, they lose themselves, they push aside what the harsh red pill truths shown to them. I get it, I understand why, you are never truly the same. I can speak from my own experience, as I was learning about The Red Pill, I was still a blue pill dazed/confused, the inner beta was still lurking. I thought I had a unicorn, she thought i was her “soulmate”, she was very attractive, we had similar views, but she was STILL a hypergamorous woman, and left me for a “better prospect” who could give her the security, when I would no longer help. So, I know that mindset, you literally fight what the red pill forces upon you, which is the true nature of women.
    Another great article Rollo? I enjoy the comment section as well!

    BTW, why do most of these “equalists” all look the same, “soft”, weak posture, they almost scream weak/beta? Command presence or strong confident outer frame is never their look, its always “please hear me, please like me, and am I in your space, I’m sorry” type of look. That video “Dear Woman”, you don’t even have to push “play” to see these men aren’t men.

    1. The answer to why Red Pill men will abandon their knowledge and accept the unicorn enthrallment of the female is simple.

      The female is designed to produce such enthrallment as an evolutionary strategy, Consequently it is effective, for such is evolution.

      It requires a firm grasp on reality to dissuade oneself from inviting in the vampire and subsequently bleeding out your rationality.

      Keep your eyes open, and they won’t have to hurt later.



  23. Where I see the red pill eventually going for men (hopefully) is into a fraternity of sorts.

    Like the moose lodges, or cigar lounges of old. This is where the MRA’s could come in handy, by pushing through legislation that helps protect the rights for only men to gather.

    Will they just be online? I hope not.

    I personally yearn for a world (IRL) that is steeped in masculine traditions and rights of passage. Where men can get together and be men. Support and encourage, brag and boast. Share and trade knowledge and wisdom. Where the young can learn from the old.

    Iron sharpens iron.

    Fuck women, why are men so divided?

    (rhetorical question, its a part of the script for men to be divided)

  24. Using, say, a feminist as a conduit for at least some RP awareness is not new. It’s called inoculation, and it’s a great political tactic to get “cover” for presenting controversial stuff. So “The Myth of Male Power” gets published because a male former NOW board member wrote it.* Janet Bloomfield can mix it up because she’s a libertarian ex-womens studies student. So when we ask the question “could a man have written this” it’s inoculation at work.

    Inoculation works in other ways, and has some usefulness. Mel Brooks knew he could never get away with the racial gags in “Blazing Saddles” without having Richard Pryor on board as a co-writer. Good comedians inoculate themselves: Chris Rock or Louis C.K. could spit some red pill stuff, then achieve inoculation by then spitting some self-deprecating gags about men, or their male egos. A tiny handful like Howard Stern, George Carlin or Sam Kinison would self-inoculate by the sheer force of their outrageousness, which outlasted the efforts of detractors and bluenoses to shut them down.

    From a political standpoint, inoculation can be very useful to create the notion of consensus around a controversial idea which can move things forward. That can produce at least incremental change in a shorter time than a full-out assault by outsiders could get. Battles over ideological purity get nothing done. Ask the Tea Party, who can’t pass a bill, or leftist campus keyboard jockeys who won’t get anyone to the polls to vote their way on Election Day.

    But of course the idea of inoculation can be misused and overused; that is the cautionary aspect of this article. What might get a policy idea or cultural meme popularized will not work in confronting the realities of seeing WHAT IS (via Red Pill self-discovery, evo-psych, evo-biology and sociology). The risk lies in trying to keep the assumptions underlying the “just be yourself/sensitive New Age guy” paradigm while admitting some awareness of the SMP realities today. For the AFC looking for solace in this Purple Pill mindset, the equation won’t add up, frustration will mount, and hilarity will most definitely not ensue.

    *Sure Warren Farrell is and was always BP, but I have to tip my hat to him just for the vitriol his mere existence generates among speech-coded SJW’s and latter-day Redstockings academics.

    PS: I had seen and guffawed at “Dear Woman” before but I must make a mental note to show it to the young’un now that she’s old enough and watch her jaw drop for the lulz.

  25. Why haven’t you commented on the Asheville coffee shop owners who lost their business because they blogged about consensual sex?

  26. Philalethes

    November 11th, 2015 at 2:10 am
    “Yeah, Warren Farrell. I was quite excited when I first read The Myth of Male Power some 15 years ago – until I got to the last chapter, where he presents his solution: that the sexes should be even more alike.”


  27. @YaReally, I wish I could share your optimism about the Red Pill movie. What I see is a payday for Paul Elam and Dean Esmay; if not in actual dollars than in mainstream capital with regards to the Red Pill. The MSM may view TRP as all being potential Eliot Rodgers but you will see how deftly the MRM displaces any association with “those faux-Red Pill misogynist guys” once the next Rodgers pops up.

    This is when you’ll see the difference I’m talking about here. That Purple Pill split will look like the MRM having always been interested in supporting egalitarian equalist interests for women (thus the ‘human’ addendum to MHRM). Dean Esmay is already sowing this field by claiming that he’s “counseling” the suicidal cast-offs psychologically damaged by guys like you and me in TRP.

    You’ll see how quickly they shift to the position of embracing women’s ‘human’ rights (along with men’s) by demonizing TRP in the hopes of legitimizing themselves in the MSM. While I agree that the the movie will raise awareness it will also bestow Red Pill authority on the MRM to legitimize what is and what isn’t “Red Pill”. I told Elam, after the movie release he will own ‘The Red Pill’ in the eyes of the MSM. They’ll readily blame him and his for the worst of it, but he’s already anticipated that and is already painting the picture of the ‘bad’ Red Pill for them.

    There are no shortages of comments like this from women new to the manosphere:

    This is exactly what I expect of Cassie Jaye when she goes on the Today show or wherever her post-movie publicity tour takes her. The movie wont be about the MRM, it will revolve around her personal story with making the film. Even if she resists making it about herself at first, this is what EVERY interviewer will make it about. The MSM wont touch the real issues in the movie that might lead to any sympathy for men’s condition, but they will enthusiastically embrace ‘Cassie’s story of personal growth’ such as it is.

    I understand what you’re saying about a rising tide lifting all ships in Red Pill awareness, and I hope you’re right that it will bring more men into the fold, but my concern is what happens once that tide goes out.

  28. @Rollo : I’m not sure a rising tide that lifts all ships is as effective in this particular case, given that hypergamy still goes for the top %. What I expect would happen if all Men are at least at today’s Purple Pill level is that today’s Purple would be the new Blue, today’s beginner to average Red becomes Purple, and today’s advanced Red are the only really Red for the sake of hypergamy.

  29. @YaReally & Rollo, I see both of your points, and I’m leaning more toward Rollo’s fears about this. It’s like the movie Training Day when the dude is lured into the house full of Latino bangers. Sure the trainee learns the truth about his mentor but then he’s left at that table and their mercy. And sure, guys new to the game will get a seat at the table, but then they’ll get steered to the shower by the purple path hosts.

  30. @Rollo – Another classic post for sure. I have another angle, here goes.

    In a large society there is a dominant culture and subcultures which rail against it. In western societies, subcultures flourish but always remain subcultures. When a subculture tries to overtake a mainstream, dominant culture – or an aspect of it – the culture smacks it down. Just look at say the libertarian movement or other small political/social movements, like the Red Pill.

    The dominant culture must suppress threats to it. The FI is dominant across all institutions of society now – it will not tolerate large scale dissent. In fact, what we are really seeing now is the “left” consolidating their gains across society and they are feeling more and more encouraged so they are increasing their demands and “dropping the mask” of pretending to support classical liberal values. Now they are out, with their fangs. Hence the increases in false crisis and news – they know they won’t pay a price, and even if one of them does, like Rolling Stone and Ederly, they are the rare exception. And I guarantee the individuals involved will not be harmed, they will be hired by others and in private will be treated like warriors and heroes.

    The RP is a tiny subculture. As long as we remain far from view and small enough, we will be largely unmolested. However, when “Men’s Rights” champions (I want to vomit just uttering that phrase as it’s a doppleganger of the SJW mindset and they don’t even know it) create too high of a profile, then we are attacked and slimed.

    “Gamergate” is a perfect case study of this. To the mainstream media, Gamergate is about online harassment of women and feminists. The fact that it was actually about gaming journalism and its overt corruption at the hands of social justice warriors is irrelevant. Every time we poke our heads up from under the table, the result will be the same. If you think that some Red Pill movie is going to change that, you live in a fantasyworld and have no idea how societies and cultures work.

    Put more directly. The left has worked for over 100 years to achieve this state of affairs in the west and has now won. They have swept the field and are now merely consolidating their gains. We are gaining nothing on the public front and in the broader culture, in fact we are losing at an accelerating rate.

    Even worse, there is no serious counter-revolution to the left’s Gramscian Counter-Hegemony – hell, most of you reading here have no idea who Gramsci was. Yet the current state of affairs was brought about very intentionally by the new left/neo-marxists.

    What’s even sadder is that their ideas are crap and don’t really work in the real world. Their underlying philosophy of post-modernism and post-structuralism, which informs all the leftist humanities today, has utterly corrupted public intellectual dialog in the academy and from there all of society. It turns our thinking into a hash of nonsense as their ideas are far too simplistic and are riddled with contradictions. Example: They believe in the social construction of sexual orientations and gender, but then celebrate Lady Gaga’s “Born that way” – uh, if gay men are born that way, then why isn’t everyone else? And this is just a simplistic peek into the hash of nonsense these ninnies are destroying our great society and nation with.

    Consider that the only reason these ideas have gotten so much power is the political empowerment of women – and women aren’t that smart to begin with. The average feminist, like say Anite Sarkeesian is pretty dumb. I watched her give a talk about her Marxist ideology (she openly admits it, I’m not making that up) and she thrills when she speaks of discovering “social systems” and how they work. For her, it’s enough to know that and that she’s a victim. It’s anti-intellectual yet she’s presented at Ted and the U.N. as a leading thinker and analyst of these issues, yet she has no academic standing. She’s never published in any real journal and simply does agit prop. The “content analysis” she does is hackneyed and soporific. Gad Saad, an evolutionary psychologist and friend of the RP world has done some great criticism of her. She’s simply not a factor in the academic wold in any way on the issues she blathers about.

    But she singlehandedly reframed “Gamergate”. Think about the social power and allies that are at her service in this game. If The Red Pill movie really is scathing, guarantee that it will be boycotted and the SJW freaks will go nuclear to shame it and make it hate speech or some other such crap.

    We lost this battle decades ago, guys, it’s just that most people have no idea what the left has been up to and how serious they were and are about it. Just look at Mizzou – particularly that video of the woman shooing away the student journalist from the safe space, and calling for “muscle” to deal with him. That woman is a radical feminist communications professor at the university – she’s a prof manning the barricades and enforcing the suppression of free speech. You have to understand this is all of a piece.

    Stay anonymous. Stay small. Own your world and then understand this. All nations rise and fall. All empires collapse due to their own success and excess. Scumbags and idiots always want power. The Dark Ages can happen again. This could become so much worse than any westerner imagines if things line up properly.Just try and imagine what a collapse of the U.S. dollar might look like. And don’t kid yourself – that is an inevitability now. It’s just a matter of timing.

    Funniest? The reset to more primitive and violent/unsafe society and times will greatly increase the value of masculinity, which will right this ship in ways no MRA ever could touch.

  31. Roissy is the Godfather of the Manosphere and the Red Pill. He was encouraged by Roosh in the beginning as Roissy was just posting his nuggets of wisdom in the comments section.

    But where did Roissy come from? In the early internet days, Roissy must have gravitated to PaleoCon figures such as Steve Sailer. Whereas the original PUAs were either liberals or libertarians, Roissy was something of a cross between a PaleoCon and a White Nationalist. That is why the Manosphere has such edge to it as compared to the PUA community.

    The Manosphere and “The Red Pill” are part of the Alt-Right no matter what you think of it. This will be considered “far right” material so long as the Left holds cultural dominance.

  32. @Rollo
    I don’t disagree with any of that. But my point is more that that’s not the focus. It doesn’t matter who it’s attached to, or how much Elam etc cash in, or how Jaye feels at the end of it, or what Oprah says about it, or what the Jezebel front page says about it, or what the next Hugo Schwyzer writes about it.

    They are all going to use it for their own means and shit all over TRP. They will throw it under the bus and try to profit and try to become the guru leaders of the movement and Jaye will still call herself a feminist etc etc

    But none of that matters. Because what you’re describing is still coming from the frame of “how can we convince the masses to accept us and our views”? The reality is we CAN’T. They WON’T accept it. We will NEVER see a Jezebel article saying “that Red Pill movie made some really good points, let’s all ease up on men, click here to donate to a men’s abuse shelter!” It’s just not going to happen, for so many reasons.

    Hoping that this movie will convince ANYONE of ANYTHING they don’t already believe is wishful thinking at best. The world will remain exactly as it is except men might get a few articles addressing some of the stats in the movie. But no one will be starting up men’s abuse shelters, no one will give a shit about prison rape, no one will be rallying in the streets about dangerous working conditions in primarily male jobs, no one will give a shit. They’ll say “those guys are all just Elliot Rogers, that Elam guy is some bitter misogynist, fuck these guys” and stick to their narrative that women are the real victims in society.

    That’s what’s going to happen. And that’s OKAY, because that was always going to happen. Just like when that anonymous guy went on the news show and wouldn’t show his face and they tooled him, no one WANTED to hear his opinion, no one WANTS to be convinced of something they don’t already believe.

    So like 99% of the audience for this will continue to hate on men just like they always did. Anyone thinking that like half the audience will come out with some newfound sympathy for men is crazy and doesn’t fully grasp all the dynamics of WHY people are so bought into this FI narrative etc.

    BUT…that *1%*…that 1% are the lost men who don’t know communities like this exist. They’re they guys who’s friend committed suicide over a divorce because his wife made the kids make up a story about him abusing them so he hasn’t seen his kids in 5 years. They’re the guys who work jobs they hate and aren’t satisfied by and know there’s more out there but don’t know how to get it. They’re the guys who got falsely accused or know a friend who did and had their lives ruined. They’re the guys who got trapped in an abusive relationship with a BPD psycho. They’re the guys with the fat girlfriend who treats them like shit and they want out but are scared to be alone. They’re the guys who got fired by HR because some chick in the office took offense to their innocuous comment. They’re the guys who’ve watched a couple double-standards videos or have run into crazy feminist chicks and realized “wow, there are some people who hate me just for being a man, wtf do I do with that?”

    Those are the guys who are going to see this movie and go “holy shit there’s a whole movement about these things that were on the tip of my tongue but I couldn’t put a name or specifics to” and they’re going to rationally look into this stuff just like we all did and they’re going to see “man, what these guys say is super politically incorrect, BUT it explains a LOT of confusing situations in my life and I can SEE this stuff out there and this explains why my dad was like such and such around my mom and this explains why my ex dumped me holy shit” Maybe they’ll find MRA, maybe they’ll find the Manosphere, maybe they’ll find TRP, maybe they’ll find MGTOW, maybe they’ll find PUA, it doesn’t matter, they’ll find what fits them and it all falls under the same Red Pill umbrella.

    And that’s going to be another 1% of men who become the next scribblerg or Softek where they get a handle on their life and gain their freedom.

    I said it way back at that anonymous guy’s interview: all we can EVER hope for in these mainstream exposures is capturing the random minor 1% of MEN who WANT answers but don’t realize they’re out there. That’s it. EVERYONE ELSE WILL HATE US FOREVER. We have to accept that. Maybe in 50 years when those little 1%s add up to a massive majority that can sway society we’ll see some change, but right now the Titanic has sunk and we need to just throw a shitload of liferafts and lifevests out there into the water. A lot of people won’t take them and maybe some assholes profit from them and maybe we need a girl to throw them for us for people to accept them, and everyone will still hate us, but a handful more men will sneak onto their computer in the privacy of their homes when no one is looking and google for answers the same way most of us who found the PUA community typed in “how do I get a girlfriend?” looking for help.

    The difference with this movie is that this movie will get massive exposure compared to like a Sandman video or a Rational Male article and we might capture a nice 10% chunk of men this time instead of just another 1%. And that’s GOOD, that’s a VICTORY, even if the other 90% of people who see the thing continue to hate our guts and try to take over and manipulate shit.

    All we need is for 90 minutes men’s issues are presented on-screen in a calm and unbiased way. Because just like TRP, this stuff is based in logic and facts. Women will ignore it, Feminists will hate on it, Blue Pill people will reject it, but that little 10% of men will go “I can’t argue with those stats and what these people are saying and it gels with my personal experiences…I need to google more about this.” and come down the rabbit hole. They won’t just stick to AVFM or stick to one forum, they’ll Google shit in general and EVERYTHING from EVERYONE will come up and they’ll see MGTOW shit, they’ll see TRP shit, they’ll see PUA shit, they’ll see your articles, and they’ll pick and choose what resonates with them but ANY of that is good because it gets them off society’s fucked up path and gets them thinking for themselves.

    Inch by inch we save men while the rest of the world shits on us. That’s how it’s going to be for another 50 years, and that’s okay…because the little percents of men that we do bring in through these exposures can’t reject the logic and explanations of their experiences once they read them. Once they see a glitch in the Matrix and realize something is up, they can’t UN-know that….they can be shamed and pressured into trying to unknow it which is why they’ll do it privately behind closed doors late at night when their fat wife is asleep and they’ll clear their Google search history after.

    We just have to accept that they’re going to demonize us from all angles forever. And it’s okay, as long as we reach the men that need reaching, because over time that’ll build up. Tortoise and the hare and all that.

  33. The Red Pill is not left or right, it is outside politics. That is its spark and its salvation. It’s grounded in WHAT IS – science. Insisting it’s “alt-right” or some such is what the MRM will try to do – force it into the far-right fringe, then they can kill it. Fence it in and it dies. Let’s not help with the cattle prods.

    I think it’s clear I am no friend of the SJW culture of the far left, with its anti-science, anti-free speech, sexual repression and Lysenko-ist thinking being no better than the creationists, oligarch-champions and climate deniers of the right.

    I would be more convinced of how the Left has won everything except for the fact that the right wing has control of Congress and the governments of 30 states. With the fight being between the corporate right wing and the SoCon John Birch righter-wing. Though I will concede that neo-cons are really Marxists who woke up with a hangover.

  34. @Fred – The “right” which holds actual power – the Republicans – have internalized the FI entirely and is now a full on Blue Pill institution. And if gaping manginas like John Kasich (governor of Ohio) are evidence of a counter movement, well then you are kidding yourself. The actual “right” in this country is a shrinking minority. The mainstream Republicans have already conceded the welfare state and massive govt intervention into the economy by the fed and other institutions. It concedes on govt education and govt paying for elder care, and it’s in agreement with the left on the nature of our empire – necons and “soft power” humanitarian leftists like Rice or Powers (or Hillary, who apes their thoughts) exercise power in very similar ways with similar aims. The “Realism” which used to characterize our wise foreign policy is gone, replaced with simpering, ridiculous idealism and ideology run by ideological incompetent hacks like Obama and Bush, or even worse, Hillary.

    But let’s get precise. Do you know who Gramsci was and what the “counter-hegemony” he spawned is? Do you even know what the public goals of the communists and socialists of 60 years ago were? Do you recognize that today’s world is characterized by them realizing those goals? From increased racial and social tension in the U.S. to trade with communist regimes like China? They put their goals in a public list and it’s part of he congressional record, do some Googling and you’ll be shocked when you read it and match it up to today’s world.

    If you don’t know what I’m talking about, then go do some reading before trying to counter what I posit her. But if you do, than you know I’m correct and am even soft pedaling it. Everyone on the right goes, “This is CRAZY, how could this happen?” In fact it all happened very intentionally.

  35. Dragonfly
    Do you think that if the Red Pill ever goes mainstream, that it will obviously be a watered down version of Purple Pill?

    In this civilization? Yes. I can visualize a culture where the RP is mainstream, but it isn’t this one. It’s either something more advanced, or something downright medieval. Chaucer’s Tale of the Wife of Bath being one example of reality from the past.

    Remember Rollo’s maxim: for one sex’s reproductive strategy to succeed, the other sex’s strategy must be suppressed. A society where TRP was common knowledge would suppress women’s sexuality in a multitude of ways, for the good of men and children. We are still living with the long hangover of Victorianism; “women are naturally monogamous”, “women can only have sex when they are secure in a relationship”, “women’s sexuality is more pure / spiritual than men’s”, etc. These pretty lies are commonly told not just within churches but are the staple underpinnings of rom-coms.

    Totally on topic: I bought “What Do Women Want” by Daniel Bergner some weeks back and enjoyed Gaming the middle aged woman clerk who sold it to me. Reading it, I’m not learning anything new yet but it is so far extremely red pill. Bergner mentions the vaginal photoplethysmography studies (women respond to all porn physically even as they deny any reaction intellectually) the N-count study (women who believe that they can’t get away with lying report much higher counts than they would otherwise) and the reproductive habits of other primates.

    So far the answer to “What do women want” is the same – fried ice. And when they don’t get it, man, are they frustrated.

  36. @ Fred Flange, koolaid drinker

    the right wing has control of Congress and the governments of 30 states

    “Right” has no meaning in American politics. Republicans as a whole aren’t right wing like the Birchers. Republicans are the left from ten years back. The only question is how long will it take for the left to consolidate their control. And maybe how long til their screw-ups result in social anarchy.

    1. @ASD, it’s not a question of ownership, it’s a question of what context that taxonomy is applied in. The MRA will gladly claim ownership of TRP in a context that’s convenient for them, but will dissociate themselves when it’s not.

      1. The owner gets to define meaning. Right now the meaning for Red Pill ™ is fuzzy. MRA gets to define meaning if they get ownership. But even if they do succeed in getting ownership, do we care?

  37. Rollo,

    The Red Pill is just a name for a set of ideas that codify traditional masculinity. To scribbles point, we’ve had 50-60 years or almost three generations of men raised unaware of what being manly has historically meant due to the counter-hegemony of feminism. Being masculine has been selectively redefined to only include things the benefit the feminine.

    If you look at the Red Pill/Purple Pill debate solely from a male perspective, I’m starting to think that men are wired to drift from Red to Purple. We’re not brought up in a Red Pill environment anymore, so now men start out Blue Pill instead of Red Pill. Kind of like your SMV graph, the old Red to Purple drift would look like a slow arc from Red to Blue as we age. Throw in hypergamy and divorce rape and it switches to a traditional bell curve.

    How many guys like Struass, Tucker Max and Roosh live the PUA life and then somewhere between 35-45 mysteriously start to question it all. How many comments do you see on Reddit and other places where men say, “yes, but I want a family, I want my own kids.” You can look at them and say there selling out, or buying into the FI, but it’s so endemic it’s almost as if men are programmed for it biologically. Maybe our testosterone levels dropping with age have something to do with it?

    Again, take out divorce rape, draconian support laws, and all the other things feminist counter-hegemony has wrought on traditional masculinity. How do you explain this yearning for a family men seem to feel? It seems to me that it has to more than societal programming of what men are “expected” to do.

    1. @Atticus, I’ve held up Kate Bolick and her triumphalism over All the Single Ladies and Spinster empowerment as an illustration of a woman who’s made it her livelihood NOT to find the happiness she supposedly doesn’t want.

      It’s literally against her financial best interests to solve her spinsterhood; if she does, what else does she write about? She’s a woman so she’s still beloved by all if she becomes a hypocrite for all she’s written, but if she ‘finds love’ the story’s over.

      Now think about how this same situation applies to guys like Roosh, Tucker, David D’Angelo, even Mark Minter. Roosh ruthlessly ran Minter up a flagpole for his backsliding after getting married, but his neomasculine push is for exactly the same goals that Minter hung himself over.

      Just like Bolick, these men can’t afford to solve their problems. Same with the MRM, anything beneficial about TRP is part of the platform, anything detrimental is part of those other guys misogynistic interpretations.

      I have no doubt that once this movie hits MRAs will go ‘four legs good, two legs better’.

  38. Watching that video I think I threw up in my mouth a little when he got to the part about “worshiping femininity”. I had an overwhelming urge to simply want to punch those guys in the face.

    For me Red Pill = Truth, biomechanical overlord, watch we she does not what she says, we are all just animals, truth. Period. Red Pill is the predictive model that works all day long in any culture, it has no morals, it has no agenda, it has no owner, it is a set of facts that live independent of language or social constructs or political systems. It is an objective set of actions that play themselves out every day in every corner of the world where men and women interact.

    Nobody can own it. If they try to own it they corrupt it and water it down to suit their agenda be they PUA’s, Purple pillers etc.

    I love this site and this forum because of Rollo’s commitment to not commercializing it. I love that when women come here they in very short order and with alarming regularity prove THE TRUTH every. single. time. they open their mouths.

    Glen I hear what are saying and I am with you 100%. I just got through reading, A war for the soul of America, A history of the culture wars. By Andrew Hartman.

    I found it very useful as a broad survey of the last 100 years or so and the rise of the new left vs classical liberalism and how the “right” is in essence doomed to a death by a thousand “movements” as we are witnessing now. I have been trying to understand how these different parts move and interact and I have been trying to understand “what is the conservative right? as it has resonated with me but has never made a broad sweeping cogent argument as to what it is and why its good. What the fuck are they conserving anyhow?
    Reading that book helped me realize that the current conservative right is simply a nostalgiac dream for a period of culture and time that we can never go back to. The atomization of the Western culture by the very mechanisms of intellect and thought that it created itself is well underway and is essentially irreversible. We designed the seeds of our own intellectual destruction and then planted them, fed them, raised many generations of them and they can now never be beaten back until a total systemic collapse occurs.
    Nihlistic poolside living sure does seem like the only reasonable avenue now, I just wish I knew that before I had kids. Now I have the burden of figuring out how to give them knowledge but also hope so they are not doomed to nihilistic emptiness brought about by looking into the hedonistic abyss.

  39. New Tyler vid about watering this stuff down for the masses and dumbing things down to make mass-applicable ideas that morons won’t misinterpret even if it hurts guys that more nuanced points could help, and how PUA knows it’s targeting a very small niche audience and doesn’t need mainstream acceptance, and he explains a lot of stuff about the oldschool PUA community and how this shit is all based on logic and we don’t want people to believe us we want people to go out and TRY it (and why I keep pushing guys to go out):

    Also it’s a good glimpse into Tyler’s robot brain and why he’s still at the forefront of pickup tech, even in 2015 after like 15 years in the game Tyler is STILL experimenting in-field and trying new ideas out and adapting to what he’s running into in-field because he’s still out multiple days/nights a week, and still mass-experimenting and getting others to experiment and adapting to what’s happening out there. I’ll be sarging this week and I’ll be trying exactly what he’s talking about with his number closes to see for myself what works or doesn’t work and see if I can figure out some nuances of it too, so will a ton of other PUAs who watch this.

    Like he says we teach stuff that’s actually mass-tested. I think a lot of people who weren’t in the community back then don’t realize how hardcore we all went out and tested this shit lol We made fun of guys who asked questions without going out and testing it for themselves first. Pretty much any oneitis post got responses of GFTOW (Go Fuck Ten Other Women). Like I’ve said the tactics & techniques board was labelled with don’t even bother posting if you haven’t successfully tested the technique out at LEAST 3 times and ideally gotten laid from it. Minimal mental masturbation. The social experiment lab frame is a great one to have.

    His explanation of how “roleplaying builds attraction” is a good example of the “if something sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t, drill deeper to the core diamond universal concept” method of figuring out how attraction ACTUALLY works consistently.

    btw I have a bunch of the archives he’s talking about on my harddrive even today lol they’re here if anyone wants them, I believe the PDF password is “”. I read so many of these back in the day lol:

    Almost Friday/Saturday, plenty of hot girls out there for anyone to go out and chat up. 😉

  40. @Atticus
    “How many guys like Struass, Tucker Max and Roosh live the PUA life and then somewhere between 35-45 mysteriously start to question it all.”

    That’s why I keep the possibility open that I might at some point want to settle. I don’t see it happening anytime soon and I have no drive for it at all, but I don’t want to lock myself into the rigid mindset (let alone make a fucking business based around it lol) that I’ll never ever ever want to settle or have kids. I might, probably in my mid/late 40s, and that’s why I’m focusing on figuring out pLTRs and paying attention to the culture (Adele’s Hello song is a different tone from the “I could have another you in a minute” Beyonce shit, I think we’re going to start seeing more pushback of “find a man and settle so you don’t end up alone and miserable dreaming of the guy you passed up” as we see more and more repercussions of feminist influence on young chicks) and noticing the shift away from feminism that some of the <25yo crowd is starting to embrace because I think in 10 years we'll have a VERY different selection of women than we do right now in 2015 and they could be quality (I've met a lot of <25yo's who hit the gym regularly, don't drink very often (but get loaded when they DO lol), eat healthy, read books, etc though they're still "independent women" but we'll see how long that lasts as the current 30-40yo crowd of women age into lonely cat lady misery).

    Once you lock yourself into a system like those guys did, you're fucked.

    @agent p
    "For me Red Pill = Truth, biomechanical overlord, watch we she does not what she says, we are all just animals, truth. Period. Red Pill is the predictive model that works all day long in any culture, it has no morals, it has no agenda, it has no owner, it is a set of facts that live independent of language or social constructs or political systems. It is an objective set of actions that play themselves out every day in every corner of the world where men and women interact."

    This. The Red Pill can't be corrupted because it's field-based not theory-based. A guy like Roosh can proclaim he's the father of the red pill and then spout his neomasculinity silliness and tell guys to reject technology (while they all write on internet forums and post videogame reviews on their youtube channels lol) and not wash their hair and marry virgins and throw all sorts of shit out there and the hugbox cult members approved to post on his forum will nod their heads and do what he says without thinking for themselves…but everyone outside of that hugbox will go out and field test shit and go "what he's saying is fucking retarded". There are enough people in all these communities combined that no one can really take it over. They can take it over to the mainstream, like Elam can become the face of men's issues to Oprah, but none of that affects the day to day field testing that everyone is doing…Elam being on Oprah doesn't affect scribblerg going on a date with some old chick who spouts the exact nonsense that Rollo's articles have taught him she'll spout.

    There's two channels going on, the mainstream view of this stuff and the actual community. The mainstream view won't affect the community itself, no one on these forums will see a Jezebel article about how evil TRP is and go "well I'm never reading Rollo's blog again, what was I thinking!!" And the people in the mainstream who hate on the community are the people who would never have drank the water we led them to anyway. And the people who will drink the water because they need answers will sneak under the radar of mainstream disapproval to explore the rabbit hole just like we all did.

  41. @theasdgamer
    “The owner gets to define meaning.”

    But the question is: to WHO? To the Oprah audience? Who cares lol Don’t let us have men’s clubs, that’s fine, we’ll meet up somewhere else. Don’t let us have a male space, that’s fine, we’ll make one on the internet. Ban forums on the internet, that’s fine, we’ll do it in private. What Oprah’s audience thinks of it is irrelevant because they’re never going to help us…and how COULD they?

  42. @Rollo. All true. It’s like welfare, you get just enough to stay poor and the bureaucrat keep power over the takers and the givers.

    But take guys that make money from TRP out of it. Mark Minter is a prime example (I don’t think he made money from his commenting); all those epic posts against marriage. The arguments, the logic, the persuasion; all SOLID. Then he marries and everyone says WTF?

    I’m asking myself why did he marry? Why do so many guys who know the score in advance still make what often turns out to be the wrong bet?

    Could the desire for kids (and even a loving wife) be hardwired into men like hypergamy and solipsism is hardwired into women? If it is, then the purple pill industry is, I think, inevitable. The goal then must be to keep the red pill “pure” (as you do here) so the youngsters at least have a fighting chance.

    @YaReally. Smart to always keep an open mind. My point wasn’t so much about the abysmal quality of women as it was about men almost “needing” to settle. Hell, it takes iron will and discipline not to get oneitis when your young, then the magic age its and you start thinking “it’s time”.

  43. YaReally
    This is why it’s retarded how the TRP forums hate on PUAs. TRP and the Manosphere only exist BECAUSE PUA got the ball rolling

    Not just TRP forums but all the churchgoing men and women who hate all over PUA’s, but who are slooooowly….grudgingly…coming to accept the reality of what women are vs. what their retarded neo-Victorian programming says they are. But they just flat out hate the fact that PUA’s model of female sexuality makes accurate predictions – testable predictions – and all their blue to purple pill nonsense fails. It fails over and over again.

    Suppose that the auto industry put out cars that were so unsafe, 1 out of every 4 failed in some ugly fashion in the first 70,000 miles – steering wheel came off, brakes totally failed, or front left wheel just fell off, or engine caught on fire while the automatic door locks jammed – stuff that would be putting people into the hospital, or the ICU, or the ground. Now suppose that everyone in society kept saying, “Well, that’s just how it is” and peddling stupid little retarded manuals on “safe driving” that didn’t even touch on what was really going on. Who would tolerate that? Nobody. But 40% of marriages blow up in a divorce in the first 7 to 10 years. And 65% to 70% of divorces are filed by women. Do the math: a man getting married has a 1 in 4 chance of his wifu blowing things up in the next decade. The ugly reality has gotten so bad, even churchgoing types are sorta coming to admit it’s happening, but their explanations are so deep blue as to be useless – it’s all “love languages” and choreplay, basically.

    And it fails. Over and over it fails. The frivorce rate proves the fail – 30% to 38%, so instead of 1 in 4 the odds of frivorce are 1 in 5? And a man bets his life on that? So there’s this mess, and all the people who are supposed to have all the answers, the “marriage counselor” and the psych types and the churches, etc. every answer they have is a fail.

    Back to the dangerous cars:
    And then suppose some group of young men came along saying, “Well, see, before you droive that car off of the lot, you gotta inspect it. You gotta make sure the wheels are gonna stay on. You gotta make sure there’s not a huge puddle of gasoline under the engine. Pull on the steering wheel hard. ” Oh, no! We can’t have that! No way, cars don’t really work that way?

    That’s what it’s like. Game works. Any man who tries it finds this out even if he does not believe in it, he feels stupid trying Agree & Amplify and yet it works. He’s uncomfortable with cocky / funny but it works. In an LTR it works and works better than choreplay or “love languages”, so huh?

    The PUA’s have the data. Anyone else – MRA’s, moderate feminist MHRA’s, conservative feminists, churchgoing feminists, pedestalizing White Knight socon/ tradcons – bring your data. Show some model for female behavior with some prediction ability, not handwaving bullshit. The fact is, all the Game haters should be totally embarassed by the utter failure of their models. But they aren’t. Because they’d rather live rolling around in miserable lies than face the truth about women.

    PUA’s have the data. Data talks, bullshit can walk off a short pier.

  44. @ YaReally

    “The owner gets to define meaning.”

    But the question is: to WHO? To the Oprah audience? Who cares lol Don’t let us have a male space, that’s fine, we’ll make one on the internet. Ban forums on the internet, that’s fine, we’ll do it in private.

    Exactly. We are more nimble than the left. Our strategy is to minimize the effectiveness of their power and to use our power effectively.

    1. It used to be that the wide world was the male space. For it was too dangerous for women to be away from the shelter of the cave and community.

      The success of men in taming the natural environment has created a disbalance in the evolutionary process that leads to the artificial decommoditizing of the female.



  45. Game works. So does corralling women and shaming sluts. For thousands of years. Somehow those things got put in place in culture, law, etc. ASD is evidence that women’s biology is hard-wired to avoid shaming. Parents can still corral their young women to some degree. Husbands have more of a problem. Can we come up with a strategy to help husbands corral their wives?

  46. @Atticus – Easy, men long for that heroic father/provider/protector role. Banging hotties is nowhere near as satisfying in terms of an entire life – not just my dick. Also, a man who wants to reproduce and have a family has no other choice but to surrender to the prevailing social conditions.

    Only men who want to stand outside the culture don’t succumb. Also, don’t blend Roosh and Tucker Max. Roosh is clever, but does not have a systematic mind and suffers from pseudo-intellectuality. Tucker Max was simply cashing in on the RP and now has figured out how to cash in on getting married. He’s a complete hack whereas Roosh has painted himself in a corner intellectually due to his presumptions about the nature of the world, society, politics and economics so he makes wrong decisions about the “cure”. I also think his Islamic background affects how he sees family and marriage. Said more plainly? Why is it a surprise to him that a life spent in cheap hostels and airbnbs chasing eastern euro pussy is empty? Why did he not recognize the nihilism of all that to begin with? He walked away (allegedly) from a career in biology, tell me, how many of us would do that? Why am I anonymous? Why do I focus on having a great overall life instead of just getting laid? If I made my whole life about getting laid, I would hate myself and my life. Roosh shows how bad his judgment and POV is by how he lives his life.

    The background on Roissy was telling above. I did know that most MGTOW/RP types get a lot of their juvenile ideas about politics and economics from Paleo-Libertarians. They ruined any chance the libertarian movement had of gaining broader support and it can be blamed squarely on Ron Paul, Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell for birthing the Paleo-Libertarian movement. When I hear the fucktardian discussion of anarchy and the state and geopolitics which emits from such folks, I realize they are parroting ignorant shit they don’t even understand. Anarchy is perhaps the biggest sign of intellectual vapidity one can imagine – yet these guys don’t even know it.

    If you think I’m being hard on anarchists, cuz I’m sure there are some here, just understand that you are ignoring basic ideas about humanity in a “state of nature”, as so eloquently described by Hobbes. Your beliefs about the world are ahistorical and disconnected from reality and you don’t even know it. Which is why guys like Roosh come to stupid conclusions about the world – they never bothered to really understand the ideas they throw around about politics and the state and economics in the first place. Bad ideas lead to bad actions

  47. Great great post, Rollo .
    “When women, women’s interests and women’s sexual strategies become an endemic part of that man’s previous message or a male-specific social movement, the fundamental, underlying impetus becomes compromised. It becomes a tool of the Feminine Imperative ”

    Which reminds me of :
    two wolves and one sheep voting on whats for dinner.

    “The Purple Pill pushers will use what ever conveniently complements and reinforces their Blue Pill insecurities while sweeping the ugly, harsh, unflattering truth of the Red Pill aside”

    The purple balls pillers, reminds me of a mangina selling out his beliefs at midnight to get a BJ .

  48. Prof. Glenn:
    I had Gramsci pounded down my rabbit-hole when I minored in Poli Sci; C. Wright Mills too. Had to practically memorize “The Power Elite.” I hope you’ve noted how my citations are to historic phenomena, not contemporary. (Who was Robert Welch? Anyone? Anyone? Putting flouride in the drinking water? Get the US out of the UN? Anyone?)

    So you also know that Gramsci’s counter-hegemonic concepts were employed by Margaret Thatcher’s people to create a Conservative Party counter-narrative using the tropes and memes of the Labor party. Just like Sarah Palin successfully deflected challenges to her intellect by wrapping herself in feminism. And how the hard right today employs SJW language to insist on “trigger warnings” so they don’t have to hear about sex ed, slavery, books like Huckleberry Finn or Catcher In The Rye, or how the South lost the Civil War.

    And you also know that the SJW’s of the left and the SoCon activists of the right prefer to do their counter-hegemonic damage in the dark, chewing up the foundations like cockroaches. They infiltrate school book publishers and quietly change the narratives. They worm into appointed positions in state and county agencies to push social agendas like denying minorities voting rights or approving pipelines to cross your land or getting a useless $43M natural gas facility built In Afghanistan that no one uses . Or get hired as super-censors on Twitter to “weed out” un-PC accounts. Or, on college campuses, quietly set up speech codes, safe spaces and “consent” classes through academic channels, not voted on by anyone. Also on the left, most famously, they wormed into the Dept. of Education and issued the “Dear Colleague” letter. You know, the basis for “yes means yes”, threatening schools with loss of funding under Title IX if they didn’t start expelling regretsy-sex beta men. Which, for all its citation as authority, never had the force of law – something they now admit! (The expelled students’ lawsuits against colleges made them do it). To be law, it would have had to be passed publicly as a regulation, subject to public scrutiny and comment. Something they weren’t prepared to do publicly. Shine the light on them and they scatter. They wither under publicity and mockery.

    I have a lot of on-the-ground time in local retail politics, where shit gets done. (Hence a key reason for my anonymity on Das Web). Whatever the meta-narrative may be about steering the cultural hive mind, I can assure you that what gets done really does depend on who’s been elected, and their affiliation makes a LOT of difference. (Whether it gets done WELL or WORKS is a different issue).

    Here endeth the lesson. I do not ask or expect to make you or ASD step out of your frames. I will not step out of mine. We can butt heads and count the lumps, like phrenology.

    I maintain the Red Pill is best taken PRN – as needed – without regard to sporting a Chick-Fil-A or Starbucks t-shirt. What I have written, I have written.

  49. Worrying about who gets to define “Red Pill” in the mass media is like trying to control the Matrix while staying plugged in. Unplug. Avoid the machines. Don’t worry about the Matrix.

  50. @ Rollo Tomassi

    “Beware of any man or woman attempting to lay claims of ownership of the Red Pill. Beware of anyone defining this awareness, distorting these truths, to accommodate their narratives.”

    In other words, “A is A,” as opposed to “A is what a person claiming ownership of A says A is.”

    “Each entity exists as something specific, its identity is particular, and it cannot exist as something else. An entity can have more than one characteristic, but any characteristic it has is a part of its identity.

    The concept of identity is important because it makes explicit that reality has a definite nature. Since reality has an identity, it is knowable. Since it exists in a particular way, it has no contradictions.”

  51. @scribble. ‘Easy, men long for that heroic father/provider/protector role. Banging hotties is nowhere near as satisfying in terms of an entire life – not just my dick. Also, a man who wants to reproduce and have a family has no other choice but to surrender to the prevailing social conditions.”

    Why do men long to be the heroic father? Nature or nurture? I always thought that was just the way things were; the prevailing social condition, nurture. To have kids, you get married. I built my business in my 20’s, girls were just an amusing diversion, then at 30 I started looking for a wife. Almost like a magical switch flipped in my head.

    I’m thinking the switch is built in.

  52. I still have to thank the purple pill for snapping me out of a backslide after a rough break up. Reading Mark Manson kind of makes me laugh now, but it led me here.

    This movie will fall on deaf ears for the most part. Im a bit concerned that any publicity is not always good publicity…

  53. I’m definitely with Yareally on this one. Any red pill exposure is good exposure. Even if it doesn’t change a man’s mindset immediately, it plants a seed that can later grow.

    For instance, I read “The Game” a decade ago, as means to get better at meeting and seducing women. It didn’t really grab me, but I half-assedly used some of the pick-up concepts and they worked well enough to get myself in a couple of serial monogamous relationships. Of course, once in them, When my I promptly went beta and followed the blue-pill script, as I believed I was “supposed to”. So, basically, I used redpill tactics to get a bluepill outcome. Pretty much the definition of the purple pill.

    I don’t have to tell you guys what happened next. My beta behavior eventually disgusted these girls and I got dumped. Back in the Sexual Market Place at 40, I knew where to go to brush-up on pickup tactics. But unlike 2005, I found a ton of hardcore red pill info mixed in with the pick-up stuff. Especially here from Rollo & at the Chateau from Roissy. I bought Rollo’s book and then read pretty much every pixel of the manosphere over the course of a year.

    This time, it clicked. Deeply. The red pill explanation of female behavior matched what I had been seeing. And the prescriptions for more masculine behavior seemed so right. Like I had been instinctively wanting to behave like that all along, but had been suppressing it because I had been taught to do so from every angle my whole life.

    So I believe that a the purple pill will be the gateway drug. Perhaps not immediately, but when men see their life improve from using red pill tactics, that will just bring them a step closer to accepting the mindset too.

  54. I started reading the article and immediately the name Karen Straughan came to mind.
    While I like Karen’s vids, I’ve kept inwardly questioning her ultimate motivation.

  55. “It used to be that the wide world was the male space.”

    God I miss those days. Now we have this mainstream adoption of nerd culture that just make my skin crawl. I’m going to go postal if another 50 year old dude comes up to me and says “do you have any bandwidth for a meeting today.” or “Ping me when you get a chance.”

    FWIW please don’t say that shit.

    RE: “The Red Pill” When the movie comes out I just think it’s important that guys find RSD or Rollo before some post on Heartiste about how black dudes are ruining America…

    Obviously you gotta have your SEO fucking nailed down tight. And I’ll do my duty and up-vote any of Rollo’s articles on the TRP Subreddit.

    1. The wide world still is the male space.

      The wide world is the dark world.

      All of the angst that drifts from man to man… is only a veil over the world that remains when the power goes out.

      “The half-dozen teenage girls twittering and chatting and giggling over their cellphones and taking selfies of their perfect clothes and bodies and hair are an illusion. The reality after the power goes out is that they are a huddled group of frightened, beaten commodities kept for the amusement of the warlord and any of his men he chooses to reward. They don’t giggle and take selfies and they don’t dare talk back when they are told to present their naked rears.”

      This is what men have forgotten about the world.

      It is not a “safe space”.

      It never has been, and only appears to be to the extent that men permit that illusion to exist either through false acceptance of feminine imperative, or through disregard of the dark reality.



  56. “Who was Robert Welch?”

    I would like to introduce the boys in the band. To my far right, is John Birch. -Tommy Smothers.

  57. “When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting to maintain the former level of interest in the endeavor.”

    Reading this, I recalled the story of “Ulysses and the Sirens” in Odyssey.
    Ulysses and his men do what men do, they explore and take on endevors, and as they go on in their journey they encounter women(sirens) who tempt them to give up on their goals(mission in life) and join them for a “short” rest. If you want a staple for “women being dream killers’, there’s no better than this story.

    The two imperatives have always been in competition, that’s intra-species competition.

  58. I don’t begrudge Tucker Max or Neil Strauss deciding to settle down and raise a family. It’s perfectly natural to want different things at 40 than you want at 20.

    What disgusts me is how these two publicly disavow everything they did before. And say that they were empty and broken inside when they were out gaming chicks and racking up notches. And they heartily repent of their misogynist ways now that they have seen the light.

    Either they don’t mean it, in which case they are blatantly selling out to get mainstream acceptance.

    Or they do mean it. In which case, they were just pathetic fakers the whole time they were selling their big swinging dick alpha image to credulous guys. Either way, their conversion story is used to discredit PUA and manosphere and redpill thought across the board.

    It would have been so much more dignified, and manly if they had just said “What I did before was awesome and I loved it. What I’m doing now is awesome in a different way, and I love it.”

    My two cents is that I suspect that those two were originally resentful against women (believe me, I get that) and the power of the red pill went to their heads. I would suspect that Roosh fits that profile as well.

    Which is one of the reasons that Rollo is such a treasure to the community. He seems to be one of the few in the public manosphere who didn’t come here with a lot of scores to settle with women.

  59. Rollo is a treasure. I wonder what role actually being married has in his attitude, although he certainly has been outspoken about not advising marriage.

    About him not having a lot of scores to settle with women, I think he doesn’t, but keep in mind he does “have a problem” with women. Mostly they are not women he was interested in sexually, but those that messed up other men’s lives, like his sister in law:


    Tomorrow AM, Thursday November 12th, about 8:35 AM EST, Neil Strauss will be interviewed for his apologia of TRUTH, how he has swallowed the BP and grown a cunt in the last few years.

    Note CBC is the “state broadcaster” nee NPR of the North, it is the epitome of hivemind groupthink, and was home to now disgraced Gian Gomheshi etc.

    They podcast all the shows too so once I have had a listen I will repost the interview of what will not doubt be “hard hitting” questions about how he could have been such a cad and then found the light.

  61. Scribblerg , in the Purple zone :

    “Date with age appropriate woman tonight – the one I mentioned who doesn’t wear yoga pants, has a rock hard body, looks like a 38 yr old former HB9. She was so damn traditional and feminine and the opposite of every cranky old skank in my age bracket that I’m trying her out. So, yes, I’m now a fucking unicorn hunter too – you guys are ruining me.

    Field report to follow – I’m not trying to fuck her tonight, and that leaves me wondering what I am trying to do? The new MPO tells me my job tonight is to have her qualifying to me, which she is already doing. I was making arrangements for dinner and asked her if she has food preferences/issues -which of course she doesn’t!!! – and she added, “I eat healthy as I want to look good in a bikini”. I didn’t respond…He he.

    Guys, you can knock me over with a feather. The last thing on earth I thought I’d be doing right now is dating a woman with LTR potential.

    Final thought: The Red Pill changes everything. I keep finding out that I’m not who I once was and the world isn’t what I once thought it was. One of the awkward but nice benefits of that is I don’t really know what’s coming next or how I’ll handle it or even see it. It’s like seeing the world with fresh eyes. It’s a bit unnerving at times but I would not change it for the world.”

    Scribblerg, back in the Red zone.

    Field Report: Date with age appropriate, hard bodied, former hottie last night. Lol – what was I thinking? A few highlights…

    – She lied about only being married once. She was married/divorced twice.
    – While she didn’t bring her phone in, she did whip an iPad out of her bag so she could show me the glamor pix she’d had taken and posted on Facebook
    – She randomly would just start talking about being beautiful, appropo of nothing. What it was like in high school or what it was like being the “trophy wife” of the doc, hubby number 2. There was no sequence to the conversation when she led it, it was just a stream of feelz
    – She’s a fucking moron
    – She lied about being into hiking and the outdoors. I asked her where she liked to hike etc and she doesn’t know the area at all.

    She’s mastered the ability to seem nice and works the “I’m not like those other awful women” game, lol. All while she regaled me with tales of how she sued a lawyer boyfriend for “hitting” her – apparently she was waving her hands around at him and he swatted her hand away. This constituted abuse and he was a monster. She had no idea how she came across.

    She’s the hottest 52 yr old I’ve ever met, but in line with what was expressed above, she became uglier as the night wore on. I just kept asking her questions and her truth came out. She wasn’t even really aware that she had already lied to me about important things, and I’m sure she told me more last night.

    She’s kind of sad actually. She’s a case study in what an identity based on beauty and sex appeal leads to for a woman. She’s got nothing else. She’s a gold-digging whore.

    Funnily, it wasn’t unpleasant. She was doing her best to be pleasing and sweet. She’s not a loudmouth and she wasn’t crass, she was just so shallow. So transparent. So pathetic.

    The important lesson for me out of this is that I would consider an LTR with a high quality woman. I didn’t really know that was still in me. I did monogamy when I was younger, I didn’t really have a hard time with it. I just haven’t found a woman worth it in so long that I assumed I didn’t want it anymore. It may lead nowhere but it’s good to know for some reason.

    Scribblerg, (who proud himself for fucking 200 women)critical of Roosh why it’s not a good thing to fuck 200 women .

    “”Why is it a surprise to him that a life spent in cheap hostels and airbnbs chasing eastern euro pussy is empty? Why did he not recognize the nihilism of all that to begin with? He walked away (allegedly) from a career in biology, tell me, how many of us would do that? Why am I anonymous? Why do I focus on having a great overall life instead of just getting laid? If I made my whole life about getting laid, I would hate myself and my life. Roosh shows how bad his judgment and POV is by how he lives his life.

    Why is it a surprise to him that a life spent in cheap hostels and airbnbs chasing eastern euro pussy is empty? Why did he not recognize the nihilism of all that to begin with? He walked away (allegedly) from a career in biology, tell me, how many of us would do that? Why am I anonymous? Why do I focus on having a great overall life instead of just getting laid? If I made my whole life about getting laid, I would hate myself and my life. Roosh shows how bad his judgment and POV is by how he lives his life.””

    Yareally in the purple zone :(with lots of contradictions in one comment) .

    “”That’s why I keep the possibility open that I might at some point want to settle. I don’t see it happening anytime soon and I have no drive for it at all, but I don’t want to lock myself into the rigid mindset (let alone make a fucking business based around it lol) that I’ll never ever ever want to settle or have kids. I might, probably in my mid/late 40s,””

    Sorry guys, but, I loath contradictions.

  62. @YaReally

    In the last thread, you were talking about how the Tinderstagrambook 24/7 validation cycle has made women MUCH flakier than they were ten years ago. Is that true across the board or is the effect much more profound with 6s and 7s than 8s and 9s (who already know how hot they are and get shitloads of validation IRL)?

  63. @keyser Soze

    “Yareally in the purple zone …”

    No, Yareally is not in the purple zone, skill testing question, what is pLTR?

  64. Question: Is a true “Red Pill” life even desirable? It is apparent that men and women are meant to be mated together. So, wouldn’t it be reasonable that some consideration for a woman’s perspective would be necessary to live a peaceable life with a woman?

    I’m not being critical. I am honestly asking the question.

    In my own life, I’ve always had relative ease attracting women (I currently have a date set in a few days with a 105 lb. woman 17 years my junior who has been signaling her openness to me for 5 years), but I wanted a family, not a solitary life. I can easily see how my lack of understanding of Red Pill realities negatively impacted my 20 year marriage, and am grateful for the education the manosphere has provided.

    But I don’t desire a solitary life, and have lost most, if not all, of my latent bitterness at women for what happened to me in my divorce. That’s not to say I am not very, very cautious now. But after about 4 years of just leaving women mostly alone (although they continued to approach me), I recently started spending more time with women, and find that I am enjoying their company once again.

    So, how do you suggest a Red Pill aware man proceed? I am not at all interested in making my bedroom a production line to prove my manhood. I’m pretty comfortable with who I am. But how do you suggest a man conduct a long-term committed relationship with a women without turning purple? I’d really like to know.

  65. In regards to “purple pill” and what it is, realize that saving a marriage and the Red Pill don’t always go hand in hand. By that I mean: if a man is already married, and for whatever reason is not willing to divorce, he may have to compromise some of his wants/needs in order to create the best marriage possible. Its easy to call that purple pill, but the reality is what is in an individual man’s best interests is not necessarily in the best interests of his marriage. In such a case, adopting Red Pill concepts but tempering them to accommodate the relationship doesn’t make a man purple pill or a sell out. It simply means he prioritizes the relationship (for whatever reason) over his other interests. And in a way, if the relationship is that important to him, he IS following his interests. (of course, if the relationship is important because she’s “the one” or something along those lines, there’s little doubt his pill is still too blue)

    There’s no doubt many folks are trying to water down the Red Pill and serve it up with some Blue mixed in, but its a lot tougher to nail an individual man down as either/or when it comes to this stuff. After all, AWALT but on a curve. Tailoring your flavor of manliness is NOT going purple. Selling yourself out for everyone else usually is.

  66. 1. Who is in charge of you?

    2. Are you in charge of you or is some bitch or bitches in charge of you?

    @ Rollo – “Although I’m cautiously optimistic about the production and release of The Red Pill movie in the coming year I have to temper that with the knowledge that a documentary about the MRM will, once again, owe its credibility to a self-identifying feminist, Cassie Jaye, to tell the story for them.”

    Why be optimistic at all unless acquiescence to the FI is preferable?

    Why hope or pretend to ourselves that Cassie Jaye’s intentions are honorable in the least? Is there any reason to think she is sincere when her compulsive smirks, condescending tone and body language all scream the opposite? Isn’t “questioning her own beliefs” exactly the perfectly typical type charade the FI (and therefore all women) should be expected to use as a smoking mirror for their ulterior motives? What benefit is it to women in general or to any particular woman to defend or support masculine imperatives when masculine imperatives must be abated for feminine imperatives to prevail? If MRAs and the MRM were really what they profess to be by their namesake, then why would they need or even allow Cassie Jaye to insinuate her spurious empathy into their realm? Can they not afford to stand alone without her? Should we expect her intent to be anything other than to undermine men who are struggling to express their masculinity as she intends to pervert and distort their efforts into something feminine?

    Should we be surprised that she has selected such an easy mark as they are advertising their position of weakness and self doubt by what they profess?

    What kind of men allow female influence in their masculine endeavors….. pussies….. weakling men?

    The female coyote has heard the squealing wounded male rabbit in the night and is coming to eat the spoils.

    If you feel threatened by the female coyote or offended at this in the least then I suggest you reread questions 1. and 2. above.

  67. Regarding Tucker Max and “Mate”:
    Mate actually received positive coverage in the Economics blogosphere.

    The Economics blogosphere is not a bunch of amateurs randomly spouting crap. The Economics blogosphere is active and full of actual economics professors sniping back and forth. Scott Sumner over at Money Illusion is probably singularly responsible for zero interest rates so long in the United States, and massive quantitative easing in Japan.

    It’s a BIG deal. I am not going to say that the economics blogosphere is Red Pill, and there are plenty of feminists in the crowd, but there’s the trickle of thought of “what’s going on with men?”

    They actually LOOK at the labor force stats, remember, and they actually see women’s college grad rates, and they see the ACTUAL pay gap numbers and not the politicized nonsense.

    Here’s Marginal Revolution on women in the workplace, there’s some veiled…ahhh…rebuttal here:

    At some point palpability matters in the Culture Wars. All cultures and all messages change over time. The libertarians of the 70s rolled up into the Reagan Revolution, along with the Moral Majority, and neither really got exactly what they wanted, but they fared better than they would have otherwise.

  68. The central picture (at the top) is key to the purple pill sales pitch to men. The guy has his son in one hand, and wife/babe on the other side. Now in reality:

    and the baby may or may not be his.

    Key for the red pill will be to present some way forward for men to have kids AND to have a strong ongoing relationship with his kids. Rollo touched on this recently, and, knowing how important it is, temporarily slipped out of descriptive to prescriptive. It’s why I like to see more TRP postings like this:

  69. Isn’t the fundamental concept of “game” itself of feminine origin? What is “game” good for other than managing the female as she cannot be managed any other way due to its nature being her own?

  70. The red pill is the scientific facts + PUA + game proven methods on the psychological, physiological, hypergamous facts of women.

    Women’s menstrual cyclical AF / BB, is NOT going to change in 20 years or a 100 years , it is in women’s DNA, and Roosh, Strauss and Athol, can live in denial as long as they want, the facts are here to stay and we have to keep on doing games.

  71. ” . . . wouldn’t it be reasonable that some consideration for a woman’s perspective would be necessary to live a peaceable life with a woman?”

    It is not reasonable to assume living peaceably with a woman has anything to do with getting babies made.

    “But I don’t desire a solitary life . . .”

    If wishes were horses . . .
    And what has that got to do with getting babies made?
    It’s babies all the way down.

    And, for that matter, what has the possession of one woman got to with being solitary? There are now more than seven billion people in the world. Many of them aren’t even women.

    “But how do you suggest a man conduct a long-term committed relationship with a women without turning purple?”

    I don’t.

  72. @Keyser. “The red pill is the scientific facts + PUA + game proven methods on the psychological, physiological, hypergamous facts of women.”

    Gotta disagree. PUA/game was a bunch of really smart blue pill guys sick of fucking fatties or fapping. So they set about learning to be “naturals”. With ideas and balls and perseverance and the Internet they figured out the secret code to women. And it worked; and it was teachable. Paraphrasing YaReally above “Guys found game googling ‘how to get a girlfriend'”

    Other guys took that hard fought PUA knowledge and relearned that men and women are different and developed the red pill. The red pill is just traditional masculinity. Something we’ve lost in the last 60 years.

    All that said, if you read these posts, most guys not in the anger phase want a family. My opinion is that it’s a feature of men. The problem is the odds are against what men want working in this fucked up FI society.

  73. Its been brought up here a couple of times … older guys reaching 35-45 wanting to settle down and I think there is a whole lot more to this. And have thought so for quite awhile.

    There is much here and in the Sphere about women’s biology and how it controls so much of their behavior … I never knew this before, so thats been very enlightening. What WE FAIL TO REALIZE is that men are just as much driven by biology too.

    Put bluntly men and women bred for thousands of years and so some behaviors are baked in. Many talk about monogamy and how its cultural or behavior based and man’s true nature is to fuck any female in sight. I disagree; strongly disagree. Just like hypergamy men have a inbuilt genetic preference to have a single mate and to care for his/her offspring with that mate. Men who did had higher rates of having a genetic line. If a dude fucked some random female what investment did he have in ensuring offspring survived, or her, or the other male he cucked. If he pair-bonded for life his offspring survived … if he didn’t, they didn’t. Easy-peasy.

    That is why, dude’s like myself are so angry sometimes. I would like to get married and have a wife and have stability … as a man its what I have been bred to desire. Yet, given the FI and the state of women … there are very few women worthy of having. And that says nothing for the police state and divorce-rape that goes on. Why marry when there is an almost certainly that it will end badly and YOU WILL LOSE AND LOSE BIG. So we want one thing and realize the deck is stacked against our very natures and if we try to follow the programming nature has in store for us … we will be destroyed. Not good. Its why I think that MGTOW is very hard to do as well. If it wasn’t for porn/video games I doublt MGTOW would exist and men would be participating to a much larger extent.

    So I don’t blame men who gave in and eventually found someone they feel is worth of the risk. And kudos for Rollo for being and staying married under the current conditions. The truly sad thing, is that these are such an anomaly. I think I’ve said it here before (or maybe at Dal’s) … I’m not anti-marriage … I’m anti-marriage under the current conditions. It’s just a raw deal for men; an almost guarantee lose big.

    At the same time its reprehensible that PUA’s who would later on go on to get married would disavow their previous lifestyle. Both can be right.

  74. “…it’s a man willing to compromise the beliefs he’s established his reputation and integrity upon in order to facilitate her feminine reality. That’s the definition of a sell-out.”

    Yeah, being a hard ass male, never giving a quarter, is gonna attract a lot of women. If you finally find one that you make your primary, and you have the cajones to keep being hard ass, she will eventually dump you.

    But she will never forget you and will always doubt her decision.

  75. @ Rollo: great essay. If I didnt have such a fantastic sense of humour the sheer chutzpah and malevolence that women bring to the.table, both individually and collectively, would see me frothing, foaming and setting buildings on fire.
    I see it like this.Bitches be bitches. Don’t take it personally. Be better. Spin plates. Pump n dump. etc.
    I’m very grateful for this place and most of the people who comment are worth listening too. The broads who come here for their daily fix of righteous indignation (‘dont judge me but I can judge you’) have laid bare the intellectual inferiority of women, their petty, venal and hypocritical nature as well as their massive sense of entitlement.
    I’ve never said much here about my circumstances or experiences in life. Suffice it to say, I am a natural. Scored a perfect SAT verbal (800/800). Very few can do that. I can charm a woman and get them to a place where they are gushing very quickly. Since I was 14 I’ve had women throwing themselves at me. I’m 47 but can pass for early 30’s. I am in a very enviable position.
    It’s not that the red pill saved my life but it has made it so that I understand and accept womens’ limitations, enjoy spending time with them but dont take them seriously. At times, I am internally rolling my eyes while I humour them with a touch of ‘there’s a good idiot’ going on in my mind but never letting on I think that way.
    Every school I went to I always got a gorgeous girl and the other girls would be incredibly cruel and spiteful to her because they couldnt get me. The red pill gave a name to the many things I’d noticed and figured out. For me their is very little suffering from women now but in the past….All because I expected they wouldnt play a zero sum game and was constantly dissappointed. Only one girlfriend was actually fair and if she split up with her husband we would have some pretty great times. Not a unicorn. Just a quality broad.

    Thanks again

  76. @Keyser – A swing and a miss. Pro-tip: If you are going to do mental battle, come armed…

    I have stated my N was over 100, not 200. And I never made getting laid the singular purpose of my work and life as Roosh did. That you miss this distinction – which I made overtly – signals that you are kind of stupid, Keyser.

    And I find myself interested in an LTR these days – that’s innately “Purple Pill” to you? Any man who is in an LTR or interested in one is not Red Pill? Have you been reading the articles and comments here? Or do you just look at the pictures?

    I get it, you don’t like when people crack on Roosh. Go suck his dick somewhere else, thanks.

  77. The Red Pill still hasn’t gone deep enough down the rabbit hole. The core of Red Pill is about male dominance and power. While reading cultural commentary is interesting, there is more to TRP than sexual strategy or what the mainstream is thinking.

  78. @keyser Soze
    “Sorry guys, but, I loath contradictions.”

    And I loathe people who misrepresent what I say…if I settled it would be into a pLTR as described here, not a monoLTR, and especially not a legal monoLTR:

    “In the last thread, you were talking about how the Tinderstagrambook 24/7 validation cycle has made women MUCH flakier than they were ten years ago. Is that true across the board or is the effect much more profound with 6s and 7s than 8s and 9s (who already know how hot they are and get shitloads of validation IRL)?”

    The interesting thing, and I don’t want to make adamant claims yet because I want more data on it but as far as my and my buddies personal experiences have gone…shit, this is going to be pretty nuanced lol, stick with me here because you’re on the right track in thinking there’s a divide between the normal girls and hotter ones, I’ve actually given this a lot of thought the past couple years but explaining it all requires some tech history on 2015’s 24/7 validation culture before getting to your actual question about flaking, and I know this isn’t even going to be useful to many guys here so this is probably more for my archives incase it becomes a trend so I can say “hey I spotted it early on” like my Reversion Theory lol


    I think the whole Tinder hookup thing is on its way out and we’re going to see a renewed appreciation by the top smokin hot high-9 and 10 girls for cold approach game. Online dating in general basically gave every guy a very easy way to avoid embarrassing rejection and the ability to spam-“approach” girls etc. When an online dating site catches on, the trend tends to be that it’s full of hot girls who are looking for fun and partying and hooking up, and generally cool social guys looking for the same. Then word gets out about it and a bunch more dudes flood onto it, lots of super chodes and shit and they start to scare the hotter girls away because it’s harder for them to weed through the masses. But these guys are all thirsty so they’re messaging every chick hoping to get ANY kind of poon, and a lot of these guys are good-looking and/or well-off dudes who just don’t have the balls to cold approach in real life. Those guys start getting laid like crazy and at first there’s still enough 7s and 8s and the occasional 9 on the service for it to work out great and there’s like a little “golden era” for like a year maybe. But word catches on to the damaged fatty uggo chicks, the 300lbs single mom with 3 kids from 3 different dads who has that “deserve me at my best” quote in their profile, that they can get laid by these thirsty guys who are messaging anything with a pulse when they’re drunk and horny at 2am, and those chicks flood the site. So by the end of the life cycle, the site has become just ugly gross damaged chicks and a shit-ton of chodes and some cool/good-looking/rich dudes slumming it…but the smokin hotties have usually taken off or just leave their profile up to gain Instagram followers or their profiles turn out to be spam. Tinder is in the end stages of this cycle, the girls on there now are nowhere near the quality they were a year or two ago and they’re charging money now and it’s full of spam profiles etc etc

    Now there’ll be another service that starts up, and it’ll probably follow the usual life cycle, BUT I think while online dating was all hip and new back in like the late 2000s, it’s run its course enough and been filled with enough chodes who are looking for the easy “approaches” of sending online messages where they don’t have to actually step up and put their balls on the line, that the legit smokin hotties who know they need a man with balls, are losing interest in the whole online dating thing and are a LOT more receptive to a guy who can smoothly cold approach (whether its daytime or at the bar, though they’ll probably have less of a bitch-shield during the day so personally I think daygame on hot girls will start becoming the optimal easy method of landing them with the least effort, if you can get past the mental hurdles and Approach Anxiety of running daygame). There’s an element of romance to it that’s been lost with the tech age, like the mysterious stranger opens her during the day in a store and charms her type fantasy that’s become a lot more rare now that everyone is buried in their phones and trying to get their attention through messaging. Same thing with making voice calls, I’ve been a HUGE texter, my text game is rock solid and has killed for years, BUT I’ve been experimenting with making voice calls to try to counter the flakiness of the social media culture in 2015 (a voice call making you more “real” to the girl VS getting lost in her sea of texts, plus while she’s talking to you she’s only having a conversation with YOU not 50 other people like if you’re texting) and I’ve been getting excellent reception off it (most of the <25yo girls will flat out say stuff like "what I love about older men is that they actually CALL or leave a voicemail").

    Analogy-wise it's kind of like women love a man who can swim, but online dating threw millions of life vests into the water so that every chode with a pulse can swim and now the legit hotties are like "ah shit, let's go deeper into the water and look for the guys who can actually swim to us". That's probably not a good analogy, this is the first time I've tried to explain this dynamic I'm noticing lol The point is it's kind of like tech threw everyone "beta bait" and now that everyone's taken it the really hot girls want the alphas who turn away the beta bait and step up because ultimately that's the type of guy they NEED, a man with balls and confidence enough to not be too intimidated by them to approach or call or whatever instead of the guys hiding behind mass-texting "hey ur cute"

    We know women love this 24/7 validation culture. In the past before Tinder, Instagram, online dating, even before texting, they got some validation here and there but it's like, literally any 4/10 with a good MySpace angle can have dudes with chisled jaws begging to fly them to Paris. Now logically, the hotter the girl the more of this validation she gets, right? Like if in the middle of a random Saturday night you take the phone of a 4/10, the phone of an 8/10, and the phone of a legit 10/10, common sense tells us that the 4/10 is going to have a ton of validation but not nearly as much as the 8/10 and both of them are going to be absolutely DWARFED by the massive 10 pages of incoming texts, Likes, instagram messages, online dating messages etc that a 10 has, especially if she's an outgoing sexy chick that isn't like a quiet bookworm type, like say a smokin hot bartender who's in a social scene and has an Instagram full of sexy pics trying to get the attention of Dan Blizerian and modelling contracts and rich millionaires and shit.

    BUT, the interesting thing to note is that in-field at the bar, while I know guys (especially guys who don't actually go out) love the stereotype of "all these women are glued to their phones, bunch of validation whores they don't even look at eachother anymore they all just stare at their Instagram Likes all night long and interrupt dates to answer their texts and shit!", I'm noticing that the girls who are glued to their phones in that way are often the 4-8 range girls. The legit high 9s and 10s, and this may not have been the case in like, 2010 when social media and online dating were newer and more exciting concepts, but in 2015 they tend to not even have their phones out and instead be looking around the room like totally open to conversation hoping some guy will step up and talk to them.

    It's kind of like drinking, everyone (especially the guys who don't go out) loves to push the stereotype that girls at the bar are all dumb drunk bar sluts who get wasted and shit…and that's true in the 4-8 and even some 9 looks range. But the high-9s and 10s, if you really pay attention to them when you see them, you'll see their night very often will consist of: show up at the bar pretty much sober, strut around the room for a few laps, stand around and accept a couple free drinks from the manager or some douchey guys begging to buy them drinks, look around the room, do another lap, and then leave. Often they're in and out in an hour or two, VS the other girls who show up at 10pm and throw back tequila shots till they can barely stand up by 1am. My theory on why these girls do this is that they're not in it to just get laid that night, they're in it to lure the top 1% of men and they know those guys don't want the falling over wasted sloppy chick who embarrasses herself barfing in the bathroom or crawling all over some lame chode on the dance floor because they're wasted enough to lower their standards. Plus they're building a reputation because they're meeting the managers and bartenders and bouncers and basically working their way into that "high-value" (to a hot <25yo girl) social circle scene (ie – they'll be the ones that get invited to the rooftop condo parties and Vegas trips to meet celebrities and shit). They come in and peacock, stay in relative control of their faculties, and then leave and go to the next venue to do the same thing and literally that's their night, followed by probably fucking an ex-boyfriend or fuckbuddy instead of some random dude off the dance floor. They consciously or subconsciously understand that they'll get more value out of the opportunity to meet that top 1% male than they will out of the cheap tequila shots on special that night. I mean realistically a hot girl can go from working at Starbucks to having literal millions if she meets a rich Provider dude by just doing some situps and not having that tequila shot, none of US can make that kind of financial leap for just combing our hair real nice and not eating a burger lol And often, ironically, these girls won't even get HIT on…every head in the room will stare at them and a couple guys might try some "I expect to get shot down because you're way out of my league" drunk hail mary approaches but often they'll be too intimidatingly hot for guys to approach (and guys will make the excuse that they MUST have boyfriends etc). The bottle guys will offer them free drinks for a chance to talk to them but often these girls will just stand around and dance alone and do laps bored out of their mind and THAT'S when you'll see them finally checking their phones, because no one cool and engaging will approach them and they can't really be into guys who don't have the confidence to approach them because they know those guys won't be able to handle dating them.

    Now this is for normal venues in a normal big city, VS like in an anomally place like Vegas or New York or certain "bottles & models" scenes you'll probably see a lot more of the top girls on their phones all night but they have more reason to be because 1) they're often just paid to be sitting at those tables with those guys and are bored out of their mind and know no one will step up and approach them (or even CAN approach them if they're VIP'ed off) so why not dive into their phones, and 2) maintaining their social media in a city like Vegas or L.A. will give them access to high-level celebrities so it's a worthy time investment compared to in just a normal big city where like, they're not going to see Kanye partying in the club they're in lol I think age also plays a factor in that an older chick has more reason to be on her phone because she needs as many leads as she can since she's closer to the wall than a <25yo is, but then a 25+yo automatically isn't a cream of the crop girl because she's heading into her 30s soon lol So like, I'm talking about when you're out at your local venues in a normal big city that isn't over the top with that shit.

    My theory on what's going on, and again this is just a really small thing I've noticed because I'm always looking for how the dynamics are changing when I'm out so it's not something that's super blatant and everyone's talking about it or anything, but the legit top chicks have had so much validation that they KNOW 99% of it is bullshit fluff. They KNOW that chisled jaw guy on Tinder is going to be a chode from his first text to them, partly just because he's ON Tinder in the first place. They've gone on lame boring dinner dates with those guys. They've had so many Instagram Likes that they KNOW when they post their selfie from the bar they're going to have 200 Likes by the end of the night and they know that those don't really matter or mean anything and aren't going to pan out into them actually meeting a high-value guy that rocks their world. They KNOW that the 50 texts on their phone from orbiters are texts they can ignore (and the guys will just keep trying no matter how little effort they put in or how much they ignore them) and basically aren't important vital texts that they NEED to check out in the middle of the night when they could be looking approachable and interacting with a high-value guy who steps up and approaches them or, if they ARE interacting with a high-value interesting dude, they know that engaging with him is higher priority than even READING their millions of orbiter texts from guys they aren't interested in.

    But the 4-8s and low/mid 9s (where they're not QUITE the hottest girls and that bugs them or they worry about it more and are a little insecure with a chip on their shoulder like short guys often are, so they need the validation more than like a legit hot confident high 9 or 10 who just doesn't care about the validation as much because she's internally confident) seem to place a lot more value, especially the 5-7 range, on all this random validation coming in. THOSE chicks are super excited to get messages from those Tinder matches and are excited to get Instagram Likes and excited to get texts from a bunch of orbiters because for them it's not as common/mundane as it's become for the top girls.

    It's like if you hand me $10,000 I'll shit bricks with joy and dance around. If you hand Bill Gates $10,000, he'll be like "that's cool" and be pleased about it but it's not going to rock his world because he has a jillion dollars already. Those validation streams on their phones are like the $10,000…the metaphorically "poor" girls love it and the "rich" girls don't really care and know that a guy who can approach them confidently and seduce them properly is worth a billion dollars.

    So the tl;dr of it is basically from what I've found there IS a difference, but it's the OPPOSITE of what most guys would naturally assume…instead of the hotter girls being the ones who are MORE obsessed with all that validation because they get more of it, they're the ones who are jaded by it and hoping that some guy steps up to them confidently in person. Because think about it logically: it can cost those girls like $200 to go out when you factor in their hair, makeup, nails, shoes, dresses, etc etc In theory if that validation were enough they wouldn't bother going out to the bar because they could just sit at home enjoying all that validation…why would they bother blowing all that money and getting all dolled up and going out to wander around the bars? Because they know the validation they're getting from their social media is empty VS the lower tier girls who don't realize that yet and think that Tinder guy or that orbiter texting them is going to be their dream guy.

    That all said I think this affects the flaking level too. I've been flaked on WAY harder by like 6s and 7s than I have by 8s and 9s. Those 6s and 7s almost can't separate high value from fake validation value (like that guy on Tinder isn't showing a pic of him sitting around watching YouTube and eating a burrito, he's got his pics of the time he surfed in Cuba and shit up there, just like how Facebook/Instagram is basically the polished and best moments and pics of everyone's lives to put on a front like everyone is successful and beautiful 24/7 when their real lives are often all fucked up and not glamourous at all)…so those girls meet guys like my buddies and I and are like ya this is cool but these other guys are great too and whichever one happens to text me at the right moment that I'm up for meeting up that's the guy I'll go for because who cares. But the higher end chicks almost appreciate like "this guy stepped up and approached me in front of my friends, and won me AND them over, that NEVER happens especially these days because I'm a 21yo girl who's grown up in texting and social media culture and all the men my age can't do that they just try to find my Facebook account to message me I've really only seen someone approach like that in Ryan Gosling movies, and I know and appreciate how rare that is, so I'm going to be less of a flake on this guy because I should explore this opportunity incase THIS is the guy that can handle me".

    But I need way more data to make absolute conclusions on this (good incentive to hit on the hotter girls lol I can probably come up with some routine about this that involves them showing me how full of validation their phone's screen is and making fun of it together (I'll often Tinder with girls or take their phone and text their clingy orbiters bitchy stuff for them). I'm already planning to experiment with disqualifying girls during number closes with "take your phone out and if there's no notices for instagram likes, facebook messages, or other dudes texting on your lock screen, you can have my number" lol). It's just a thing I've been noticing in the <25yo crowd and if I was a betting man who was deciding on what style of game to focus on I would focus primarily on Mystery Method cold approach for the nightlife (because it's designed for the high end girls) and whatever style of daygame (indirect, direct, whatever, personally I think indirect feels more "romantic movie moment" to the girl because there are elements of Mystery Method in it where she chooses you and wins you over which can be important in terms of investment on her part and avoiding flakes etc), with the edge going to daygame depending on your city (some cities have good daygame spots with an abundance of hot girls and some cities you'll only find the hot girls in the nightlife). But again this is keyboard jockeying speculation so take it all with a grain of salt and just keep an eye for it when you're out, pay attention to the hottest girls in the venue and spot when they check their phones (often it'll be when they're bored because no one has talked to them, and I actually wonder sometimes if they're just pretending to text or texting their friend "fuck why won't anyone hit on me?? I must be ugly tonight" like us guys do so we don't look lame just sitting around in silence lol) and what their general behavior through the night is like (how many guys ACTUALLY approach them and when they arrive/leave etc).

  79. YaReally wrote:

    That all said I think this affects the flaking level too. I’ve been flaked on WAY harder by like 6s and 7s than I have by 8s and 9s.

    Cosign. Never been flaked on by a 9 or 10. Was flaked on by a 6 once.

    Cold approach is the way to go. The more things change…

  80. @theasdgamer
    “Cold approach is the way to go. The more things change…”

    Ultimately it’s a good thing. I would LOVE to see things shift to where guys out there all end up learning to cold approach legit hotties…that would be amazing.

    It’s depressing to me to see so many dudes who have so much unrealized potential standing around holding a drink up at their chest in a bar full of women, texting some Tinder 6/10 to hook up with because they’re too scared or socially inept or lack the confidence and belief in their own inherent value as men to just say hello to a gorgeous girl who’s hoping she didn’t waste all the effort she put into looking good that night.

    1. I cannot stress enough that mastery of the cold approach is the single most critical aspect of social power that a man can master in the dark world.

      Hands down. Without question.

      The cold approach is all that you have in the dark world when things go to shit and your business fails and your children are swallowed up by the devastation and your mate departs for different pastures.

      When you are standing in total emptiness and the ashes of your life are floating in the hot wind and you have nothing but the clothes on your back and the ground under your feet…

      …you still have the cold approach.

      And if you have mastered it, you have leverage with which to move the entire dark world and begin to tumble thrones back to yourself again.

      I cannot stress the importance of this enough!

      With mastery of the cold approach you can turn any encounter into an engagement within which lie the seeds of ultimate outcome.

      Mastery of the cold approach turns a disinterested, VIP-ed model into an excited creature fantasizing about what you’d be like to bed as you walk away with her number.

      Mastery of the cold approach turns the cynical cop guarding an event and hired to keep people away, into the escort who brings you directly to the heart of power.

      Mastery of the cold approach turns the impatient and uninterested investor into an intrigued listener who is imagining ways to put his money into the achievement of your dream.

      Mastery of the cold approach is the skill that allows you to walk up to the concentration camp guard in your shivering, emaciated state and obtain medical help for the family member who will die without it.

      Mastery of the cold approach is what allows you to open new doors inside yourself by proposing new ideas, new plans, new approached, new strategies and overcome the internal doubts, fears and hesitations that plague all men who face challenges in the dark world.

      Use the cold approach.

      Use it in the dark world.

      Use it on yourself for new ideas and plans and goals.

      The throne is not a warm place.

      It is a vicious, ruthless place of ice.

      If you’re going to seize it, you need to master the cold approach.



      Mastery of the cold approach

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