The Purple Pill

review

Four years ago I wrote a post titled Could a Man Have Written This? I opened that post with a short, I thought positive, critique of an article by Mona Charen in which she in turn took a then relatively unknown Kate Bolick to task over her All the Single Ladies article. You can read the whole post; it was one of my earliest essays on this blog and, as I’ve come to realize, one of my more prophetic ones too.

My intent in that essay wasn’t to call Charen to the carpet, but rather to illustrate the point that only women are allowed to write an article that criticizes issues specific to women. It is an indictment of, and evidence of, the feminine centric social order we find ourselves in today that any man brazen enough to write verbatim the same offering would be dismissed and passed over as a misogynists at best – lose his long career and personal life at worst.

No man could write this critique and be taken seriously, and therein lies the danger in women co-opting the message the manosphere has been compiling for 12 years now. The environment is such that anything remotely critical a man might offer is instantly suspect of misogyny or personal (‘he’s bitter”) bias, however, couch that message in a female perspective, play Mrs. Doubtfire, and you’ll at least reach the audience beginning with something like validity.

Not surprisingly this element of message delivery is lost on most women. Adopting the male perspective seems novel, something that might set a woman apart in a sea of common fem-speak, but it’s important for Men to understand that anything positive a ‘pro-man’ female author has to offer is still rooted in her female reality. In girl-world, what directly benefits women necessarily is presumed to benefit men, so what we’ll see is a new wave of female bloggers bastardizing the world-worn ideas that the manosphere has put together and repackaging it in a female context. It’s Man Up 2.0; make a token push to “re-empower” men just enough for them to idealize the romanticism of the responsibilities required for living up to women’s expectations.

I daresay this last part is exactly what the manosphere is seeing now. Like any other Male Space the Feminine Imperative makes it its business to ensure that ‘overseers in the locker room’ – in this case the social awareness of the Red Pill –  are emplaced to control a narrative and a condition to suit its purposes. That may sound conspiratorial, but there is no need for a concerted effort when women’s natural, fluid interest in attention and indignation will motivate them to co-opt the narrative of Red Pill awareness.

From Male Space:

Overseers in the Locker Room

The second purpose in the goal of female inclusion into male space is really a policing of the thought dynamics and attitudes of the men in that space. When women are allowed access to the locker room the dynamic of the locker room changes. The locker room can take many different shapes: the workplace environment, the sports team, the group of all-male coders, the primarily male scientific community, the ‘boys club’, the group of gamer nerds at the local game store, even strip clubs and the sanctuary you think your ‘man cave’ is – the context is one of women inserting themselves into male space in order to enforce the dictates of feminine social primacy.

When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting to maintain the former level of interest in the endeavor.

Men unaccustomed to having women in their midst generally react in two ways; According to their proper feminized conditioning, they embrace the opportunity to impress these ‘trailblazing’ women (hoping to be found worthy of intimacy) with their enthusiastic acceptance of, and identification with, their feminine overseer(s), or they become easy foils of an “out moded” way of thinking that the new ‘in-group’ happily labels them with.

Once the feminine-primary in-group dynamic is established a ‘feminine correct’ social frame follows. This feminine correction restructures the priorities of goals, and validates any accomplishments, in terms of how they reflect upon the feminine as a whole. Thus any in-group success is perceived as a feminine success in male space, while in-group failures or simple mediocrity is either dismissed entirely or blamed on out-group men’s failure to comply with, or the rejection of, the Feminine Imperative’s ‘correcting’ influence on the in-group.

It’s very important for Red Pill aware men, manospherean men, to keep this dynamic in mind when they are assessing and evaluating the various messages and intents of the men from whom they’re considering taking advice from.

The Purple Pill

In the community, The Purple Pill is a euphemism for men who’ve become Red Pill aware, but for a variety of insecurities have decided to temper the uncomfortable truths of that awareness with their previous Blue Pill hopes. The harsh, ugly truths that the nature of women, the nature of Hypergamy and the natural selection process of intersexual dynamics presents to these guys becomes too much to bear. It’s all encompassing; when a man begins to see his surroundings with a Red Pill lens the difficult truth needs for an optimistic solution to counter what would otherwise be nihilism.

As I detailed in A New Hope, there’s a want for some sort of Red Pill solution in achieving Blue Pill fantasized goals.

Learn this now, you will never achieve contentment or emotional fulfillment in a blue pill context with red pill awareness.

I’ve included as my blog picture the first and last book covers published by former Frat Boy PUA Tucker Max. I could just as easily have used Neil Strauss’ most recent book, or Athol Kay and Married Man Sex Life as an example, but I think Tucker’s covers tell the story better than a thousand words. When women, women’s interests and women’s sexual strategies become an endemic part of that man’s previous message or a male-specific social movement, the fundamental, underlying impetus becomes compromised. It becomes a tool of the Feminine Imperative.

The present condition of the Mens Human Rights movement is a glaring example of this insaturation of feminine influence. At some stage along the evolution of this otherwise laudable movement its leaders recognized that their best messengers – really their only options – for their grievances were women. Our feminine-primary social order only allows women to be critical of other women, thus the only avenue became investing their message in the women who would voice it for them.

Although I’m cautiously optimistic about the production and release of The Red Pill movie in the coming year I have to temper that with the knowledge that a documentary about the MRM will, once again, owe its credibility to a self-identifying feminist, Cassie Jaye, to tell the story for them. For all of the reassurances and promises of objectivity on her part, the subplot of the documentary prominently features her self-doubt and questioning of her own feminist beliefs during the process of her making the documentary.

On the surface this female self-discovery probably seems like a confirmation of purpose to the men of the MRM, but from a Red Pill perspective – the true Red Pill awareness neither she nor the notables of the MRM are willing to acknowledge – this is yet one more example of the innate feminine solipsism we’ve dissected for a decade now. From Eat, Pray Love to Gone Girl, the female self-discovery script is almost cliché now, but I expect that the bulk of the publicity and interviews of Jaye that follow this film will be less about the MRM and more focused on her very predictable “personal growth journey”.

As I stated in Male Space, the purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. This has been a constant bugbear for the Mens Rights Movement, and is the primary reason they must maintain an inclusionary egalitarian / equalist aspect to their message.

The present state of the MRM is just one of the more apparent examples of men’s groups inviting this feminine influence to ostensibly validate their message. There are others. Tucker Max’s most recent venture appears to be selling himself as a reformed cad who followed the romantic comedy script and is now appeasing his wife’s influence by helping men better understand how to better accommodate Hypergamy.

From The Script:

For women, the only thing better than experiencing this script vicariously through movies and stories is to see it happen live. David D’Angelo, Tucker Max are a few manosphere notable who’ve played the come-full-circle surrender to the script. There are far more guys who play it in a more visual sense (the repentant ‘Womanizer’ episodes on the Tyra Banks show comes to mind), but no one really remembers them, and certainly not in the ‘sphere. While there’s a sense of vindication for women to have a guy surrender his anti-social (i.e. anti-feminine primary) lifestyle and beliefs in favor of a feminine paradigm, and “settle down” into a feminine framed, normalized monogamy, surrender is still surrender. Essentially the strong vibrant man who posed such a challenge to her, the one who’s steadfast determination and conviction made him a man she was hot for as well as one she could respect, loses his status.

He’ll say, hey, you don’t know where I’m at in life, you don’t know the experiences I’ve had, life has taught me the value of compromise. Women fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices a man must make to facilitate a feminine reality, but if there’s one thing women outright despise, one thing men foolishly believe women should be able to appreciate, it’s a man willing to compromise the beliefs he’s established his reputation and integrity upon in order to facilitate her feminine reality. That’s the definition of a sell-out.

As I said there are many other examples; Athol Kay and the revenue dependence he now has on his pandering to a female audience (and the inclusion of his wife and other women in his message). Evan Mark Katz’s pandering almost exclusively to upper middle class women bemoaning the same tired tropes of  “no good men” that led them to their spinsterhood in the first place. There are more, but in all these cases these men’s financial livelihood depends on their capacity to include a feminine-primary influence into their dubious male space.

This Purple Pill dynamic has also found its way into mainstream religion for much of the same reasoning these ‘Dating Coaches’ find it necessary to cater their message to a feminine-primary audience. Most will season-to-taste just a bit of whatever they’re peripherally aware of about Red Pill truth, but only enough to appear in touch with the burden of men’s performance owed to the women that make up their audiences. Like the Dating Coaches, the Purple Pill Pastor understands that his revenue depends on hold women’s attention and usually this comes in the form of playing to women’s inherent need for indignation.

And finally, there are the apologist,…

This is an old video, but it’s brought to you by the same faction that’s now fronting conferences like the Conscious Men Summit. It pains me to see Dr. Warren Farrell speaking/endorsing this new age masculine apologist movement, especially since he’s a featured interview in The Red Pill movie for the MRM. Farrell has always been an adherent of the same gender-equal fantasy he learned from 70’s feminism, but I do credit him with aiding in my own unplugging when I read Why Men Are The Way They Are.

I suppose I shouldn’t be too shocked, but the masculine apologists of this century also have a need to mix in just enough Red Pill awareness to appeal to, what they hope are the more dominant sensibilities of men. New age (really reheated 70s) masculine apologist still cling to the fallacies inherent in gender equalism, but they transition this into a restitution script they believe women will appreciate in an age where women despise their pathetic acquiescence to the Feminine Imperative they’re oblivious of.

If these guys’ message makes your stomach turn, well, I share in your disgust, but it’s important to remember that in the coming years men like this will attempt to co-opt into their message just enough of what the Red Pill as a collective has developed for the past 13-14 years.

After Roosh decided to set fire to the Red Pill community in an effort to create his own brand in neomasculinity he put out a video in which he laid claim to having ‘fathered’ the Red Pill. Now we have the MRM making similar claims of ownership to this collective with their upcoming documentary. The cover story is of course “only in name, because no one can really ‘own’ the Red Pill”, but their notables understand the conflation all too well. Furthermore we have the influences of the ‘overseers in the locker room’ effect with the likes of Tucker Max and other half-measure Purple Pill fence riders.

Back in 2011 I anticipated women writers co-opting the Red Pill and acknowledging what of it that serves their sexual strategy (Open Hypergamy) and in claiming authorship of the Red Pill they also claim the authority to define it in the ways that most fluidly serve the Feminine Imperative. The Purple Pill pushers will use what ever conveniently complements and reinforces their Blue Pill insecurities while sweeping the ugly, harsh, unflattering truth of the Red Pill aside or disqualifying them as the negativity of misogynistic complainers.

While I am humbled to be accounted as one of the Red Pill’s prominent writers I will never lay claim to having created it. The Red Pill in its truest sense belongs to the collective that has contributed to it as a whole. It belongs to the men who’ve fostered it, who’ve risked their livelihoods and families apart from it to make other men aware; it belongs to those who understand that its objectivity is what’s kept it open and honest, discussable and debatable.

At the Man In Demand conference in Vegas I opened my talk by asking those seated what they believed the Red Pill was. I did so because I believe that in the coming years there will be a concerted effort to claim authorship and definition rights to the “Red Pill”, and it’s important for anyone identifying as being Red Pill aware to acknowledge that what we’re a part of is a collective experience. We are, we become, the developments of a totality of men’s experiences across the world.

Beware of any man or woman attempting to lay claims of ownership of the Red Pill. Beware of anyone defining this awareness, distorting these truths, to accommodate their narratives.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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donalgraeme
Guest

Attempts to “co-opt” the Red Pill will only intensify into the future. The System needs to neutralize it, as it understands that within the RP is a threat that, if left unchecked, could prove existential in the long run. As you have noted before Rollo, the System tries to convince Men to follow Rules that no longer apply. A mass awareness of the “rule change” casts too great of a specter of social and economic uncertainty to be ignored.

Dragonfly
Guest

Do you think that if the Red Pill ever goes mainstream, that it will obviously be a watered down version of Purple Pill? Or are you saying that it IS mainstream and this mainstream version IS the Purple Pill. Or the more provocative question… is the Red Pill slowly becoming more and more adulterated and what will be thought of as “Red Pill” will actually be Purple Pill? And I guess I should read more about it, but I don’t fully understand the differences between Purple Pill and Red Pill ideologies. I don’t even have a complete grasp of the… Read more »

The Question
Guest

“I believe that in the coming years there will be a concerted effort to claim authorship and definition rights to the “Red Pill”, and it’s important for anyone identifying as being Red Pill aware to acknowledge that what we’re a part of is a collective experience.” It is unsettling to think a day may come when the term “Red Pill” has become so hijacked by the feminine imperative that it will be applied to the bluest of Blue Pill men, a day when it no longer applies to a small group of radical thinkers, but used by the average man… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

Yes, to paragraph two.

” I don’t fully understand the differences between Purple Pill and Red Pill ideologies. ”

Purple pill is trying to use red pill awareness to achieve blue pill results. It can’t work because while blue pill is an ideology, red pill is not.

The woman in red does not exist. It’s just a construct, an illusion. You cannot use the knowledge that it’s just a construct to generate it outside of the matrix where shit gets real.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“That’s what the FI does; it take any idea that poses a threat, hijacks the label or name, and changes its meaning until it fits within the parameters of its own frame.”

War is peace, Brother.

theprivateman
Guest

There is a very fluid nature to the Internet and that supports the maintenance of Red Pill wisdom. To be sure, the MSM and the feminine imperative will try co-opting Red Pill elements. This will merely cause a shift to another ‘net venue for guys who aren’t into watered down, purple pill version of this approach to life. For example, The Red Pill subreddit has over 136K members and several spin-off subreddits. The members and moderators do a very good job with keeping to Red Pill wisdom. That subreddit is worth checking out whether one gets involved or not.

Philalethes
Guest
Philalethes

Yeah, Warren Farrell. I was quite excited when I first read The Myth of Male Power some 15 years ago – until I got to the last chapter, where he presents his solution: that the sexes should be even more alike. Shows the real power of FI conditioning: he’s a smart guy, but even after all the research, examination and thinking he’s done, he still doesn’t get it. I really liked his image of the “hormone-induced fog” in which most men live out their lives; unfortunately it seems he himself can’t see clearly through it.

Paul Murray
Guest

The revolution will not be televised.

IAS
Guest
IAS

I think this is a relevant question: would having a more mainstream “Purple Pill” (possibly even passing off as genuine Red Pill by co-opting the name) lead more or less men to find out AND accept the genuine Red Pill? I ask because as far as I remember, I came through Athol Kay’s site before I reached the Rational Male. I was able to figure out that Red matches reality better than Purple or Blue does, but I have to give some (or a lot) of credit to Rollo’s skill in describing RP in a very rational way (let’s say… Read more »

benfromtexas
Guest
benfromtexas

Hey Dragonfly, I think it can NEVER be mainstream. If so, it will be watered down. Take your article you wrote about how women should admire their husbands. Something like that will not ever be promoted by the mainstream. Roosh for example, did an interview with Dagonet and Christian McQueen over a year ago where he talked about how men need to be famous. So the next thing you know, he attempts to go mainstream by creating a scene, but Rollo and the others in Vegas meet without a mainstream blip on the radar. It can never be mainstream, it… Read more »

benfromtexas
Guest
benfromtexas

P.S.

Tucker’s Jay Leno jaw women is hot. LOL

bo jangles
Guest
bo jangles

I think a number of the original authors about game were a good percent charlatan. I’ve heard that Tucker Max’s stories had really started as just kind of locker room lies, and then people started to think that it actually happened and that was what became the basis for the book. Neil Strauss I think BSs alot of what was in his book The Game. I just read something he wrote about polyamory, and having gone to an orgy in Paris, and just from his own descriptions of what he was thinking about in his relationships, and how he acted…its… Read more »

Dark Triad Man
Guest

The introduction of the feminine into the masculine space is inherently and irreversibly destructive. The tiniest drop of ink in the water changes its purity for ever. That is the design and the intent. Where a male space exists, the feminine does not have power. The feminine is jealous of power and feels threatened by the existence of power it does not control. Hence the intrusions, the co-opting, and the insinuation and reframing and infection and narrative pushing that we observe. Holding frame isn’t just about passing shit tests. It is about preserving masculinity in the world, and upholding the… Read more »

fnd
Guest
fnd

So basically, purple pills are the churchians of the red pill: only picking the messages people(women) want to hear while hiding/distorcing/reframing the more unconfortable truths or statements.

Paul
Guest
Paul

Dragonfly

The first time I read about the red pill was … in Why Men Love Bitches

The same criticisms that feminists make the red pill, can be all self-help books for women on issues of relationships.

Women are empowering them with the red pill in TV Show, self-help books, romance novels, movies (Twilight, 500 days summer (the man can not do hypergamy)).

It will be fun as society destroys all forms of red pill to men, while women dream all a real man.

haha women say one thing but do another, but the fault is men

Paul
Guest
Paul

Lack of masculinity in modern man makes women want more and more strongest forms of hyper masculinity

“Pulp romance novels featuring badboys, jerkboys, and yes, rapeboys, are a $1.4 billion-a-year market (consumed almost entirely by women). Erotica-slash-porn for women is by far the most popular book genre.Pulp romance novels featuring badboys, jerkboys, and yes, rapeboys, are a $1.4 billion-a-year market (consumed almost entirely by women). Erotica-slash-porn for women is by far the most popular book genre.”

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/11/06/reminder-the-majority-of-educated-women-have-erotic-rape-fantasies/

Longtorso
Guest
Longtorso

I heard Max’s interview by Dr Drew and bought the book. Mistake. According to him I need to understand that a woman responds with a nuclear rejection because she is physically afraid of me, as if being able to attract male attention is only a source of fear and never a source of power. I stopped reading there.

He also disavowed everything else he wrote as “funny stories” and only idiots would have used them for dating advice.

One decent takeaway, be attractive by appearing “successful at life”.

SJF
Guest
SJF

In regards to Dragonfly’s question, I think Dark Triad Man nailed the distinction very well. The Red Pill discussions and advocacy are aimed at advancing male interests and The Masculine Imperative. “Where a male space exists, the feminine does not have power. The feminine is jealous of power and feels threatened by the existence of power it does not control.” Even though the comments section of TRM is open and (uncensored except for obvious spam) notice how the feminine imperative and women commenters cannot gain any traction at all. It never happens. That does not mean women are not welcome.… Read more »

toolate
Guest
toolate

Rollo has pointed the feminine dominance in culture/frame thru out his writings. It is last the last thing an MRA can understand…like a frog being boiled in water or not seeing the forest for the trees. I think Cassie Jaye does not totally get it. Watched her 2 hour interview and she states she is still a feminist and states she is still fighting for feminist issues but does not elaborate what they are. I really do not think she truly understands men’s issue’s (still view’s everything thru a feminist lens) and is using this as a platform for bigger… Read more »

Joshua
Guest
Joshua

It’s indicative of what Rollo is talking about when men scramble to respond to women even on this blog.

She will never be able to understand the true motivations of a man taking the Red Pill, because they’re based solely on men’s experiences, and mistakes based on his past actions.

YaReally
Guest

Fucking lol at that image again. I love it. That Red Pill movie is going to be fucking great. I’ve watched interviews and shit with the chick by skeptical guys trying to figure out where she’s at and just from the footage in the trailer you can see she’s going to hoist a lot of psycho third-wave feminism wwith their own petard. Like she shows Big Red the victim in the trailer, but we all know what other classic Big Red footage is going to be shown and NO ONE can view that Big Red footage and listen to her… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@toolate “I really do not think she truly understands men’s issue’s (still view’s everything thru a feminist lens) and is using this as a platform for bigger and better things to come in her future.” I say it doesn’t matter if she DOES. All that matters is that she presents a fair balanced representation of men’s issues, which it looks like she’s going to do, facts and logic, and show the bad behavior of feminists and show data that can’t really be argued (like footage of how men are treated in media or those social experiments etc) so that guys… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

There ought to be masculine spaces, feminine spaces, and spaces where men and women mingle (parties, dances, etc.).

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

I had never seen that dear woman apologist video before… All I can say is… Hahahahahahahahaha!! Holy fuck, just cut your dick off and be done with it. One day reality is gonna drop a nice big bucket of cold water on all these sleeping pussies, and it is gonna be ugly. Purple pill: a way for women to interfere with and control male spaces, a way for a subset of red pill authors to capitalize on a growing movement, and a way for select men to rationalize away and sugar coat the bitterness of the red pill. Its just… Read more »

Craiger247
Guest
Craiger247

Ya Really brings up a great point, even a glimpse/water downed version of the Red Pill message for the lost, confused, beta guys is better than no exposure at all. But to Rollo’s point, it does take a woman to send the message of anything revolving what Men are experiencing, and anything “Red Pill Related” to get a sniff in today’s mainstream media. The message the media has will always be watered down, or fit the narrative of the FI. For example, look at all the new articles on Transgender children, we weren’t even talking about them a few years… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

Where I see the red pill eventually going for men (hopefully) is into a fraternity of sorts. Like the moose lodges, or cigar lounges of old. This is where the MRA’s could come in handy, by pushing through legislation that helps protect the rights for only men to gather. Will they just be online? I hope not. I personally yearn for a world (IRL) that is steeped in masculine traditions and rights of passage. Where men can get together and be men. Support and encourage, brag and boast. Share and trade knowledge and wisdom. Where the young can learn from… Read more »

Dark Triad Man
Guest

The answer to why Red Pill men will abandon their knowledge and accept the unicorn enthrallment of the female is simple.

The female is designed to produce such enthrallment as an evolutionary strategy, Consequently it is effective, for such is evolution.

It requires a firm grasp on reality to dissuade oneself from inviting in the vampire and subsequently bleeding out your rationality.

Keep your eyes open, and they won’t have to hurt later.

Regards,

Ivan

http://www.darktriadman.com

Fred Flange the UnEveready
Guest
Fred Flange the UnEveready

Using, say, a feminist as a conduit for at least some RP awareness is not new. It’s called inoculation, and it’s a great political tactic to get “cover” for presenting controversial stuff. So “The Myth of Male Power” gets published because a male former NOW board member wrote it.* Janet Bloomfield can mix it up because she’s a libertarian ex-womens studies student. So when we ask the question “could a man have written this” it’s inoculation at work. Inoculation works in other ways, and has some usefulness. Mel Brooks knew he could never get away with the racial gags in… Read more »

KL
Guest
KL

Why haven’t you commented on the Asheville coffee shop owners who lost their business because they blogged about consensual sex?

ace
Guest
ace

Philalethes

November 11th, 2015 at 2:10 am
“Yeah, Warren Farrell. I was quite excited when I first read The Myth of Male Power some 15 years ago – until I got to the last chapter, where he presents his solution: that the sexes should be even more alike.”

Yep.

https://youtu.be/Qi1oN1icAYc?t=430

IAS
Guest
IAS

@Rollo : I’m not sure a rising tide that lifts all ships is as effective in this particular case, given that hypergamy still goes for the top %. What I expect would happen if all Men are at least at today’s Purple Pill level is that today’s Purple would be the new Blue, today’s beginner to average Red becomes Purple, and today’s advanced Red are the only really Red for the sake of hypergamy.

newlyaloof
Guest

@YaReally & Rollo, I see both of your points, and I’m leaning more toward Rollo’s fears about this. It’s like the movie Training Day when the dude is lured into the house full of Latino bangers. Sure the trainee learns the truth about his mentor but then he’s left at that table and their mercy. And sure, guys new to the game will get a seat at the table, but then they’ll get steered to the shower by the purple path hosts.

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Rollo – Another classic post for sure. I have another angle, here goes. In a large society there is a dominant culture and subcultures which rail against it. In western societies, subcultures flourish but always remain subcultures. When a subculture tries to overtake a mainstream, dominant culture – or an aspect of it – the culture smacks it down. Just look at say the libertarian movement or other small political/social movements, like the Red Pill. The dominant culture must suppress threats to it. The FI is dominant across all institutions of society now – it will not tolerate large scale… Read more »

10x10
Guest
10x10

Roissy is the Godfather of the Manosphere and the Red Pill. He was encouraged by Roosh in the beginning as Roissy was just posting his nuggets of wisdom in the comments section. But where did Roissy come from? In the early internet days, Roissy must have gravitated to PaleoCon figures such as Steve Sailer. Whereas the original PUAs were either liberals or libertarians, Roissy was something of a cross between a PaleoCon and a White Nationalist. That is why the Manosphere has such edge to it as compared to the PUA community. The Manosphere and “The Red Pill” are part… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@Rollo I don’t disagree with any of that. But my point is more that that’s not the focus. It doesn’t matter who it’s attached to, or how much Elam etc cash in, or how Jaye feels at the end of it, or what Oprah says about it, or what the Jezebel front page says about it, or what the next Hugo Schwyzer writes about it. They are all going to use it for their own means and shit all over TRP. They will throw it under the bus and try to profit and try to become the guru leaders of… Read more »

Fred Flange the UnEveready
Guest
Fred Flange the UnEveready

The Red Pill is not left or right, it is outside politics. That is its spark and its salvation. It’s grounded in WHAT IS – science. Insisting it’s “alt-right” or some such is what the MRM will try to do – force it into the far-right fringe, then they can kill it. Fence it in and it dies. Let’s not help with the cattle prods. I think it’s clear I am no friend of the SJW culture of the far left, with its anti-science, anti-free speech, sexual repression and Lysenko-ist thinking being no better than the creationists, oligarch-champions and climate… Read more »

tarzanwannabe
Guest
tarzanwannabe

If you’ve clicked on the “Dear Woman” Rollo provided above, chances are you’ve not seen previously. Otherwise you’d have know better (ha) and are in urgent need of a palate cleanse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLRu6PJtRv4

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Fred – The “right” which holds actual power – the Republicans – have internalized the FI entirely and is now a full on Blue Pill institution. And if gaping manginas like John Kasich (governor of Ohio) are evidence of a counter movement, well then you are kidding yourself. The actual “right” in this country is a shrinking minority. The mainstream Republicans have already conceded the welfare state and massive govt intervention into the economy by the fed and other institutions. It concedes on govt education and govt paying for elder care, and it’s in agreement with the left on the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Dragonfly Do you think that if the Red Pill ever goes mainstream, that it will obviously be a watered down version of Purple Pill? In this civilization? Yes. I can visualize a culture where the RP is mainstream, but it isn’t this one. It’s either something more advanced, or something downright medieval. Chaucer’s Tale of the Wife of Bath being one example of reality from the past. Remember Rollo’s maxim: for one sex’s reproductive strategy to succeed, the other sex’s strategy must be suppressed. A society where TRP was common knowledge would suppress women’s sexuality in a multitude of ways,… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@ Fred Flange, koolaid drinker

the right wing has control of Congress and the governments of 30 states

“Right” has no meaning in American politics. Republicans as a whole aren’t right wing like the Birchers. Republicans are the left from ten years back. The only question is how long will it take for the left to consolidate their control. And maybe how long til their screw-ups result in social anarchy.

theasdgamer
Guest

So, Rollo, who owns the Red Pill ™? If nobody owns it, then anyone can claim ownership at will.

Atticus
Guest
Atticus

Rollo, The Red Pill is just a name for a set of ideas that codify traditional masculinity. To scribbles point, we’ve had 50-60 years or almost three generations of men raised unaware of what being manly has historically meant due to the counter-hegemony of feminism. Being masculine has been selectively redefined to only include things the benefit the feminine. If you look at the Red Pill/Purple Pill debate solely from a male perspective, I’m starting to think that men are wired to drift from Red to Purple. We’re not brought up in a Red Pill environment anymore, so now men… Read more »

agent p
Guest
agent p

Watching that video I think I threw up in my mouth a little when he got to the part about “worshiping femininity”. I had an overwhelming urge to simply want to punch those guys in the face. For me Red Pill = Truth, biomechanical overlord, watch we she does not what she says, we are all just animals, truth. Period. Red Pill is the predictive model that works all day long in any culture, it has no morals, it has no agenda, it has no owner, it is a set of facts that live independent of language or social constructs… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

New Tyler vid about watering this stuff down for the masses and dumbing things down to make mass-applicable ideas that morons won’t misinterpret even if it hurts guys that more nuanced points could help, and how PUA knows it’s targeting a very small niche audience and doesn’t need mainstream acceptance, and he explains a lot of stuff about the oldschool PUA community and how this shit is all based on logic and we don’t want people to believe us we want people to go out and TRY it (and why I keep pushing guys to go out): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WjuD0cu5o0 Also it’s… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

The owner gets to define meaning. Right now the meaning for Red Pill ™ is fuzzy. MRA gets to define meaning if they get ownership. But even if they do succeed in getting ownership, do we care?

YaReally
Guest

@Atticus “How many guys like Struass, Tucker Max and Roosh live the PUA life and then somewhere between 35-45 mysteriously start to question it all.” That’s why I keep the possibility open that I might at some point want to settle. I don’t see it happening anytime soon and I have no drive for it at all, but I don’t want to lock myself into the rigid mindset (let alone make a fucking business based around it lol) that I’ll never ever ever want to settle or have kids. I might, probably in my mid/late 40s, and that’s why I’m… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@theasdgamer
“The owner gets to define meaning.”

But the question is: to WHO? To the Oprah audience? Who cares lol Don’t let us have men’s clubs, that’s fine, we’ll meet up somewhere else. Don’t let us have a male space, that’s fine, we’ll make one on the internet. Ban forums on the internet, that’s fine, we’ll do it in private. What Oprah’s audience thinks of it is irrelevant because they’re never going to help us…and how COULD they?

Atticus
Guest
Atticus

@Rollo. All true. It’s like welfare, you get just enough to stay poor and the bureaucrat keep power over the takers and the givers. But take guys that make money from TRP out of it. Mark Minter is a prime example (I don’t think he made money from his commenting); all those epic posts against marriage. The arguments, the logic, the persuasion; all SOLID. Then he marries and everyone says WTF? I’m asking myself why did he marry? Why do so many guys who know the score in advance still make what often turns out to be the wrong bet?… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

YaReally This is why it’s retarded how the TRP forums hate on PUAs. TRP and the Manosphere only exist BECAUSE PUA got the ball rolling Not just TRP forums but all the churchgoing men and women who hate all over PUA’s, but who are slooooowly….grudgingly…coming to accept the reality of what women are vs. what their retarded neo-Victorian programming says they are. But they just flat out hate the fact that PUA’s model of female sexuality makes accurate predictions – testable predictions – and all their blue to purple pill nonsense fails. It fails over and over again. Suppose that… Read more »

Atticus
Guest
Atticus

Maybe Blackdragon with his New Relationship Energy/MLTR ideas has it right for men and women.

theasdgamer
Guest

@ YaReally

theasdgamer
“The owner gets to define meaning.”

But the question is: to WHO? To the Oprah audience? Who cares lol Don’t let us have a male space, that’s fine, we’ll make one on the internet. Ban forums on the internet, that’s fine, we’ll do it in private.

Exactly. We are more nimble than the left. Our strategy is to minimize the effectiveness of their power and to use our power effectively.

Atticus
Guest
Atticus

I’m betting Anonymous Reader is married in five years, lol.

Dark Triad Man
Guest

It used to be that the wide world was the male space. For it was too dangerous for women to be away from the shelter of the cave and community.

The success of men in taming the natural environment has created a disbalance in the evolutionary process that leads to the artificial decommoditizing of the female.

Regards,

Ivan

http://www.darktriadman.com

theasdgamer
Guest

Game works. So does corralling women and shaming sluts. For thousands of years. Somehow those things got put in place in culture, law, etc. ASD is evidence that women’s biology is hard-wired to avoid shaming. Parents can still corral their young women to some degree. Husbands have more of a problem. Can we come up with a strategy to help husbands corral their wives?

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Atticus – Easy, men long for that heroic father/provider/protector role. Banging hotties is nowhere near as satisfying in terms of an entire life – not just my dick. Also, a man who wants to reproduce and have a family has no other choice but to surrender to the prevailing social conditions. Only men who want to stand outside the culture don’t succumb. Also, don’t blend Roosh and Tucker Max. Roosh is clever, but does not have a systematic mind and suffers from pseudo-intellectuality. Tucker Max was simply cashing in on the RP and now has figured out how to cash… Read more »

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze

Great great post, Rollo . “When women, women’s interests and women’s sexual strategies become an endemic part of that man’s previous message or a male-specific social movement, the fundamental, underlying impetus becomes compromised. It becomes a tool of the Feminine Imperative ” Which reminds me of : two wolves and one sheep voting on whats for dinner. “The Purple Pill pushers will use what ever conveniently complements and reinforces their Blue Pill insecurities while sweeping the ugly, harsh, unflattering truth of the Red Pill aside” The purple balls pillers, reminds me of a mangina selling out his beliefs at midnight… Read more »

Fred Flange, PhD, Jim Jones Univ.
Guest
Fred Flange, PhD, Jim Jones Univ.

Prof. Glenn: I had Gramsci pounded down my rabbit-hole when I minored in Poli Sci; C. Wright Mills too. Had to practically memorize “The Power Elite.” I hope you’ve noted how my citations are to historic phenomena, not contemporary. (Who was Robert Welch? Anyone? Anyone? Putting flouride in the drinking water? Get the US out of the UN? Anyone?) So you also know that Gramsci’s counter-hegemonic concepts were employed by Margaret Thatcher’s people to create a Conservative Party counter-narrative using the tropes and memes of the Labor party. Just like Sarah Palin successfully deflected challenges to her intellect by wrapping… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Worrying about who gets to define “Red Pill” in the mass media is like trying to control the Matrix while staying plugged in. Unplug. Avoid the machines. Don’t worry about the Matrix.

The Question
Guest

@ Rollo Tomassi “Beware of any man or woman attempting to lay claims of ownership of the Red Pill. Beware of anyone defining this awareness, distorting these truths, to accommodate their narratives.” In other words, “A is A,” as opposed to “A is what a person claiming ownership of A says A is.” http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Metaphysics_Identity.html “Each entity exists as something specific, its identity is particular, and it cannot exist as something else. An entity can have more than one characteristic, but any characteristic it has is a part of its identity. The concept of identity is important because it makes explicit… Read more »

Atticus
Guest
Atticus

@scribble. ‘Easy, men long for that heroic father/provider/protector role. Banging hotties is nowhere near as satisfying in terms of an entire life – not just my dick. Also, a man who wants to reproduce and have a family has no other choice but to surrender to the prevailing social conditions.” Why do men long to be the heroic father? Nature or nurture? I always thought that was just the way things were; the prevailing social condition, nurture. To have kids, you get married. I built my business in my 20’s, girls were just an amusing diversion, then at 30 I… Read more »

BigAl
Guest
BigAl

I still have to thank the purple pill for snapping me out of a backslide after a rough break up. Reading Mark Manson kind of makes me laugh now, but it led me here.

This movie will fall on deaf ears for the most part. Im a bit concerned that any publicity is not always good publicity…

Hosswire
Guest
Hosswire

I’m definitely with Yareally on this one. Any red pill exposure is good exposure. Even if it doesn’t change a man’s mindset immediately, it plants a seed that can later grow. For instance, I read “The Game” a decade ago, as means to get better at meeting and seducing women. It didn’t really grab me, but I half-assedly used some of the pick-up concepts and they worked well enough to get myself in a couple of serial monogamous relationships. Of course, once in them, When my I promptly went beta and followed the blue-pill script, as I believed I was… Read more »

Porko
Guest
Porko

I started reading the article and immediately the name Karen Straughan came to mind.
While I like Karen’s vids, I’ve kept inwardly questioning her ultimate motivation.

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze

Here is Robert Welch http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32y947

Andy
Guest
Andy

“It used to be that the wide world was the male space.” God I miss those days. Now we have this mainstream adoption of nerd culture that just make my skin crawl. I’m going to go postal if another 50 year old dude comes up to me and says “do you have any bandwidth for a meeting today.” or “Ping me when you get a chance.” FWIW please don’t say that shit. RE: “The Red Pill” When the movie comes out I just think it’s important that guys find RSD or Rollo before some post on Heartiste about how black… Read more »

Dark Triad Man
Guest

The wide world still is the male space. The wide world is the dark world. All of the angst that drifts from man to man… is only a veil over the world that remains when the power goes out. http://darktriadman.com/2015/11/03/3-steps-to-gladiator-power/ “The half-dozen teenage girls twittering and chatting and giggling over their cellphones and taking selfies of their perfect clothes and bodies and hair are an illusion. The reality after the power goes out is that they are a huddled group of frightened, beaten commodities kept for the amusement of the warlord and any of his men he chooses to reward.… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Who was Robert Welch?”

I would like to introduce the boys in the band. To my far right, is John Birch. -Tommy Smothers.

ETA
Guest
ETA

“When the influence of feminine-primacy is introduced into social settings made up mainly by men and male-interests, the dynamics and purpose of that group changes. The purpose becomes less about the endeavor itself and more about adherence to the feminine-inclusionary aspect of that endeavor. It starts to become less about being the best or most passionate at what they do, and more about being acceptable to the influence of the Feminine Imperative while attempting to maintain the former level of interest in the endeavor.” Reading this, I recalled the story of “Ulysses and the Sirens” in Odyssey. Ulysses and his… Read more »

Atticus
Guest
Atticus

http://theweek.com/speedreads/587933/watch-sen-claire-mccaskill-take-strong-politically-questionable-stand-against-mansplaining

Here’s what happens whe women invade male spaces. Even if it’s tongue in cheek, it’s not funny.

Hosswire
Guest
Hosswire

I don’t begrudge Tucker Max or Neil Strauss deciding to settle down and raise a family. It’s perfectly natural to want different things at 40 than you want at 20. What disgusts me is how these two publicly disavow everything they did before. And say that they were empty and broken inside when they were out gaming chicks and racking up notches. And they heartily repent of their misogynist ways now that they have seen the light. Either they don’t mean it, in which case they are blatantly selling out to get mainstream acceptance. Or they do mean it. In… Read more »

benfromtexas
Guest
benfromtexas

Well said, Hosswire.

IAS
Guest
IAS

Rollo is a treasure. I wonder what role actually being married has in his attitude, although he certainly has been outspoken about not advising marriage.

About him not having a lot of scores to settle with women, I think he doesn’t, but keep in mind he does “have a problem” with women. Mostly they are not women he was interested in sexually, but those that messed up other men’s lives, like his sister in law:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/26/whats-your-problem/

agent p
Guest
agent p

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent Tomorrow AM, Thursday November 12th, about 8:35 AM EST, Neil Strauss will be interviewed for his apologia of TRUTH, how he has swallowed the BP and grown a cunt in the last few years. Note CBC is the “state broadcaster” nee NPR of the North, it is the epitome of hivemind groupthink, and was home to now disgraced Gian Gomheshi etc. They podcast all the shows too so once I have had a listen I will repost the interview of what will not doubt be “hard hitting” questions about how he could have been such a cad and then… Read more »

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze

Scribblerg , in the Purple zone : “Date with age appropriate woman tonight – the one I mentioned who doesn’t wear yoga pants, has a rock hard body, looks like a 38 yr old former HB9. She was so damn traditional and feminine and the opposite of every cranky old skank in my age bracket that I’m trying her out. So, yes, I’m now a fucking unicorn hunter too – you guys are ruining me. Field report to follow – I’m not trying to fuck her tonight, and that leaves me wondering what I am trying to do? The new… Read more »

Dutchman
Guest
Dutchman

@YaReally

In the last thread, you were talking about how the Tinderstagrambook 24/7 validation cycle has made women MUCH flakier than they were ten years ago. Is that true across the board or is the effect much more profound with 6s and 7s than 8s and 9s (who already know how hot they are and get shitloads of validation IRL)?

redlight
Guest
redlight

@keyser Soze

“Yareally in the purple zone …”

No, Yareally is not in the purple zone, skill testing question, what is pLTR?

Scott6584
Guest
Scott6584

Question: Is a true “Red Pill” life even desirable? It is apparent that men and women are meant to be mated together. So, wouldn’t it be reasonable that some consideration for a woman’s perspective would be necessary to live a peaceable life with a woman? I’m not being critical. I am honestly asking the question. In my own life, I’ve always had relative ease attracting women (I currently have a date set in a few days with a 105 lb. woman 17 years my junior who has been signaling her openness to me for 5 years), but I wanted a… Read more »

teddj4g
Guest
teddj4g

In regards to “purple pill” and what it is, realize that saving a marriage and the Red Pill don’t always go hand in hand. By that I mean: if a man is already married, and for whatever reason is not willing to divorce, he may have to compromise some of his wants/needs in order to create the best marriage possible. Its easy to call that purple pill, but the reality is what is in an individual man’s best interests is not necessarily in the best interests of his marriage. In such a case, adopting Red Pill concepts but tempering them… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest

1. Who is in charge of you? 2. Are you in charge of you or is some bitch or bitches in charge of you? @ Rollo – “Although I’m cautiously optimistic about the production and release of The Red Pill movie in the coming year I have to temper that with the knowledge that a documentary about the MRM will, once again, owe its credibility to a self-identifying feminist, Cassie Jaye, to tell the story for them.” Why be optimistic at all unless acquiescence to the FI is preferable? Why hope or pretend to ourselves that Cassie Jaye’s intentions are… Read more »

A Definite Beta Guy
Guest

Regarding Tucker Max and “Mate”: Mate actually received positive coverage in the Economics blogosphere. http://www.overcomingbias.com/2015/09/max-millers-mate.html The Economics blogosphere is not a bunch of amateurs randomly spouting crap. The Economics blogosphere is active and full of actual economics professors sniping back and forth. Scott Sumner over at Money Illusion is probably singularly responsible for zero interest rates so long in the United States, and massive quantitative easing in Japan. It’s a BIG deal. I am not going to say that the economics blogosphere is Red Pill, and there are plenty of feminists in the crowd, but there’s the trickle of thought… Read more »

redlight
Guest
redlight

The central picture (at the top) is key to the purple pill sales pitch to men. The guy has his son in one hand, and wife/babe on the other side. Now in reality: http://momitforward.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/husband-wife-baby.jpg and the baby may or may not be his. Key for the red pill will be to present some way forward for men to have kids AND to have a strong ongoing relationship with his kids. Rollo touched on this recently, and, knowing how important it is, temporarily slipped out of descriptive to prescriptive. It’s why I like to see more TRP postings like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3sdndu/trp_has_improved_my_marriage_substantially_things/… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest

Isn’t the fundamental concept of “game” itself of feminine origin? What is “game” good for other than managing the female as she cannot be managed any other way due to its nature being her own?

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze

The red pill is the scientific facts + PUA + game proven methods on the psychological, physiological, hypergamous facts of women.

Women’s menstrual cyclical AF / BB, is NOT going to change in 20 years or a 100 years , it is in women’s DNA, and Roosh, Strauss and Athol, can live in denial as long as they want, the facts are here to stay and we have to keep on doing games.

kfg
Guest
kfg

” . . . wouldn’t it be reasonable that some consideration for a woman’s perspective would be necessary to live a peaceable life with a woman?” It is not reasonable to assume living peaceably with a woman has anything to do with getting babies made. “But I don’t desire a solitary life . . .” If wishes were horses . . . And what has that got to do with getting babies made? It’s babies all the way down. And, for that matter, what has the possession of one woman got to with being solitary? There are now more than… Read more »

keyser Soze
Guest
keyser Soze

“But we need policy makers to really buy into these separated bike routes or designated bike lanes that are going to provide cyclists the means to cycle more like a woman.”

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/toronto/programs/metromorning/female-cyclists-have-lower-hospitalization-rates-study-finds-1.3312593

Ps,
Tomorrow Strauss would agree to bicycle like a woman and put a flower basket too.

kfg
Guest
kfg

” . . . cycle more like a woman.”

Over my dead body.

Atticus
Guest
Atticus

@Keyser. “The red pill is the scientific facts + PUA + game proven methods on the psychological, physiological, hypergamous facts of women.” Gotta disagree. PUA/game was a bunch of really smart blue pill guys sick of fucking fatties or fapping. So they set about learning to be “naturals”. With ideas and balls and perseverance and the Internet they figured out the secret code to women. And it worked; and it was teachable. Paraphrasing YaReally above “Guys found game googling ‘how to get a girlfriend'” Other guys took that hard fought PUA knowledge and relearned that men and women are different… Read more »

Rocket
Guest
Rocket

Its been brought up here a couple of times … older guys reaching 35-45 wanting to settle down and I think there is a whole lot more to this. And have thought so for quite awhile. There is much here and in the Sphere about women’s biology and how it controls so much of their behavior … I never knew this before, so thats been very enlightening. What WE FAIL TO REALIZE is that men are just as much driven by biology too. Put bluntly men and women bred for thousands of years and so some behaviors are baked in.… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

Red is the color my blood bleeds to the world.

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist

“…it’s a man willing to compromise the beliefs he’s established his reputation and integrity upon in order to facilitate her feminine reality. That’s the definition of a sell-out.”

Yeah, being a hard ass male, never giving a quarter, is gonna attract a lot of women. If you finally find one that you make your primary, and you have the cajones to keep being hard ass, she will eventually dump you.

But she will never forget you and will always doubt her decision.

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist

Dragonfly, Madison Avenue corrupts everything.

bob bitchin
Guest
bob bitchin

@ Rollo: great essay. If I didnt have such a fantastic sense of humour the sheer chutzpah and malevolence that women bring to the.table, both individually and collectively, would see me frothing, foaming and setting buildings on fire. I see it like this.Bitches be bitches. Don’t take it personally. Be better. Spin plates. Pump n dump. etc. I’m very grateful for this place and most of the people who comment are worth listening too. The broads who come here for their daily fix of righteous indignation (‘dont judge me but I can judge you’) have laid bare the intellectual inferiority… Read more »

Max from Australia
Guest
Max from Australia

Should I lick out my gfs ass or is that beta?

Dutchman
Guest
Dutchman

Max, it depends on how recently she pooped.

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg
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