Don’t Hate the Beta

beta_hate

A common refrain I hear from even some well meaning Red Pill aware men is that there is some degree of disdain for the “Beta” man in the sphere. There’s not so much a rejection of apparent Red Pill truths as there is a schoolyard mentality when it comes to characterizing a guy as Alpha or Beta. This is where where a lot of guys turn themselves off to the Red Pill in a community sense.

In a way I suppose it becomes reminiscent of guys having been bullied in their formative years by the guys they now have a mental image of being archetypically “Alpha”. So it follows that concepts like AMOGing or running a ‘Boyfriend Destroyer’ script is distasteful; a lot of men, that is to say the 80%+ Beta men, have likely experienced this disqualification in direct or indirect ways in their youth. Sometimes that may simply be a girl he had his ONEitis sights set on opting for a more Alpha guy after telling him she wasn’t ready for a relationship, or it may be a more direct experience of having sand metaphorically kicked in his face.

Thus it becomes a matter of course to entirely dismiss the nuts & bolts understanding of how abstracts like Alpha and Beta are used in the sphere. The default understanding goes something like this, “Those Red Pillers just hate on Betas to build themselves up” or some other version of this where the Red Pill becomes a Machiavellian free for all at the expense of other, ‘lesser’, men.

It’s either this or the abstractions of Alpha and Beta are reduced to absurd binary interpretations; Alphas become ridiculous ‘douchebag’ parodies and Betas become pathetic, simpering doormats for the world to tread upon. In either case the purpose of reducing these abstracts as such is an effort in dismissing the uncomfortable, as well as evidently observable qualities and truths of the intersexual environment that plays out around us.

For the record I think it’s important for Red Pill men to remain as objective and disinvested from making qualitative assumptions about what constitutes the Alpha and Beta abstractions. I don’t hate, pity or resent Beta men. Neither do I embrace the idea that Alpha archetypes as necessarily positive or negative. For the moment however, I’m going to focus on Beta men.

The Presumption of Control

As I mentioned above, one of the primary dismissals men have when they encounter Red Pill thought is to blow it off because “it’s all just a bunch of hating on Betas.” And that presumption comes only if a guy is willing to consider the abstracts of Alpha and Beta in the first place – most simply don’t want to recognize specific ‘statuses’ or defining characteristics of men or women, and just fall back on the “all is relative, all is subjective” mindset they’ve been conditioned to. People are People, there is no human “nature” so there is no male or female “nature”.

But for the guy who at least accepts the idea of human natures, I can certainly understand the reservations of men whose identities were conditioned to a more Beta role. There’s not much positive to characterize a Beta mindset with beyond the utility that conditioning serves to society and women’s sexual strategy. Betas do in fact get laid; the terms on which, and how their sexuality fits their utilitarian role in women’s Hypergamous plan is the real question.

I was recently asked if I thought Beta men employing Beta Game was a successful strategy in the larger scheme of things. If success means that Beta Game will get him laid, I’m incredulous about it. The presumption is that the Beta man employing that ‘game’ is in some way directing and controlling the outcome of his ‘success’. I’d argue that what he believes is ‘game’ is simply his utility to a woman coming into an optimal window for her necessity of him. So is his ‘strategy’ really successful, or is he simply the best ‘Plan B‘ a woman has available to her while her own SMV decays to the point where he’s her best option?

Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?

I think a lot of what guys new to the manosphere perceive as Beta hate is simply the presumption of control they believe they should be able to exercise with women. After having been told for the the better part of their lives that the more accommodating and identifying with women they are will lead to them being accepted by women it’s a presumption that this is some means of socially acceptable control for them.

It’s very galling to have men place fault on a guy for things he knows are out of his control. I fully understand the angst and frustration that leads to things like Beta Uprising and men frustrated with intersexual dynamics taking it out on the whole of society before they swallow a bullet themselves.

It essentially amounts to victim blaming; Betas are hapless and hopeless mules brainwashed and indentured to serve not just the Feminine Imperative (which would be galling enough), but also to have the pains and strivings that society demands of them be rewarded with women’s genuine intimate interests focusing on Alpha men.

That sucks.

PUAs telling a guy it’s on him as to why women are boring to him, or uninterested in him sexually, only reinforces that angst. It’s like a pastor telling you that if you’d only prayed harder or more earnestly God would have cured your Mom of cancer. So they hate the Alpha, they hate the PUA, they hate the hotchickswithdouchebags guy, but they also hate women and the social/biological mechanics of the position they’re placed in. It presumes a control that he believes he’s never had, nor ever will.

So there comes a point where that Beta wants, sometimes adamantly insists, for his own burden of performance to be replaced, or at least handicapped, by a woman meeting him half way. This want is rooted in his Blue Pill presumption that people are people and in the equalist notion that women’s hindbrains can (willingly) be overridden when it comes to arousal, attraction and intersexual dynamics. Again, if there is no human nature it should stand to reason that a woman could potentially choose that Beta for all the reasons he’s been conditioned to believe she should choose him for. If there is a female nature, and that nature follows (with some degree of consistency) Red Pill aware truths, then his frustrations are founded on his own lack.

But these guys aren’t Blue Pill oblivious men, they are Red Pill aware. They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in. So when these guys are put into that place they have a few choices: Snap and take out themselves and as many others as they can, go isolationist MGTOW and retreat to minimal societal investment, go MRA and impotently try to enact legislation that they think will even the social playing filed from the top down, or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.

The Burden of Fault

Whether it’s fair or not, by virtue of being a man, you’re going to have to accept your burden of performance. That burden includes your liability of accepting fault even for things that aren’t your fault per se. It’s not your fault that you were born and raised into a feminine-primary social order that conditioned you to be an accommodating utility for it – but irrespective of that, you will be held liable for not complying with it or resisting it. You are a man, you will always be accountable.

Is that fucked up? Yes. So with that in mind it is up to you as a Red Pill aware Man to decide for yourself what is worth your investment. Yes my friend, women can be amazing, interesting vivacious and fun, but they can also be fucked up and stupid and absolutely not worth your time, money and effort. It isn’t your fault they are the way they are, but it is your fault for investing yourself in something you’re not enjoying or profiting by.

With all of the railing against women not being worthwhile one would think that would prompt these men to being indifferent to women – but they aren’t. Even the most ardent MGTOW and hapless Beta Red Pill denier still wants women; he simply wants her in his context and his frame on his terms – and to genuinely want to be a part of all that. There’s nothing wrong with this desire, this is precisely what I advise with regards to Frame control, but the disconnect comes in how men go about establishing a Frame women want to be a part of.

Get Out There

I may debate with other men’s takes on how the importance of looks plays in to a man’s overall Game and appeal, but one thing I won’t argue with is the importance of men putting themselves out there and into situations that will most certainly take them out of their comfort zones.

For almost 20 years I have made a living doing exactly this. I have worked in gaming, liquor and brand development ventures that have put me into venues that range from Goth/Alternative/Hipster sets to LGBT events, to mixing with men and women who have the type of wealth that most people don’t even know exists. My career, family and personal life has been my Red Pill classroom and laboratory for all this, and in all of these contexts I have found a way to enjoy myself and/or learn from these interactions.

One reason I will never look to writing Red Pill books as a career option is because it would remove me from the very source of my observations. Living it is the only way keep learning from it. On my own time, I would very likely prefer to lock myself in my studio and paint or sculpt, or to create something new to work into a brand, often to the exclusion of my wife and family and the many friends I have. I’m a very social guy, but I would probably not feel compelled to head off to a night club or any of the events I involve myself in professionally on a weekly basis.

When I’m doing a promo, I know I’m not going to hook up, so I find enjoyment in watching and learning from what I see going on around me. I can’t drink when I’m on a promo or doing a trade show, so even that can’t be a source enjoyment. So why fucking do it right? I make money at it, and it beats living in a cubicle, but I’d much rather be creating new things, new brands, new ideas than interacting with half-buzzed hipsters who think they’re too cool to be there or obnoxious 40 something divorcés ‘sampling’ vodka and hoping to drink their spinsterhood away.

I enjoy what I do and it helps me help other guys. I put myself out in the wild because it’s part of my job(s), but I honestly enjoy interacting with even the dullards and the drunks. It’s what I invest myself in. That may sound like torture to you, but it’s really contextual. I have friends I’ve made at underground Goth events who would blanch at the thought of what I do at a golf tournament. I’m not saying you need to be a social chameleon, but understand that your social education will always be domain dependent if you stay in the settings that make you the most comfortable.

Don’t Hate the Beta

As I mentioned earlier, I don’t hate Beta men. For a long time in my Blue Pill past I was one of them, and I can fully understand the want to mischaracterize an Alpha mindset in order to preserve a sense of self-worth. Beta men don’t warrant pity or disgust, but rather they need a tough harsh awakening to the reality of the situation they find themselves in.

I don’t think Beta men are hopeless, but they will remain in a state of hopelessness so long as they subscribe to a want of making things easier for their condition rather than improving themselves to better play the Game. That’s hard to hear for most Beta men and I understand the protective need for denial in this, but I know of very few Red Pill men who really despise Beta or Blue Pill men. They despise his indentured state, they despise his willful obliviousness to his conditioned uses. They despise the lengths to which Blue Pill men will go in their hope to be appreciated by the system that made them what they are.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]

AtWarWithMyself
Guest
AtWarWithMyself

First comment here…. I feel conflicted over as to what attitude to adopt with the guys who insist on Blue pill. On one hand, they are our fellow men and we need to make sure that they are made aware of the reality, whether they acknowledge it or not. On the other hand, I see vapid scumbags like David Futtrell and it makes my blood boil. That they should be publicly humiliated by virtue of the very truths they tried to deny. They should be made an example of. Perhaps when a red pill fact touches him personally, will such… Read more »

gidsek
Guest
gidsek

Thank you Rollo, you mentioned you were going to write “Solipism III”
That it might discuss how one can turn it to ones favor. Will we see it soon?

JD
Guest
JD

Excellent, Rollo. I say, to anyone reading who’s been in my situation (twice-married, alienated from kids, former churchian): Resist the temptation to double down on what you’ve been doing. Stop. Slam on the brakes. If it hasn’t worked for 20 years it isn’t going to work. The cavalry is NOT coming. Step back and recognize that the social contract you were trained into was torn up by women decades ago. The crucible of emotional agony you are immersed in is there to wake you up. It’s a GOOD thing. Re-arm with the truth. Heal. Forgive. Take all the time YOU… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

“Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NiIMqSqabGs “They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in.” Death had my nephews grandpa kill himself over the weekend. “or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.” Fashion fitness sense of adventure. “but irrespective of that, you will be held liable for not complying with it or resisting it. You are a man, you will always be accountable.” Agreed what a wonder to hold in me. “but the disconnect comes… Read more »

Razorwire
Guest
Razorwire

There is the characterization of ‘beta’ men, a descriptor of convenience in these discussions, one that often reverts to the hierarchical to reveal some portion of the thesis, and there is the pajoratove ‘beta’, which is applied easy and often as a shortcut to the undesirable station and/or behaviors of a man. It is not so easy to separate the two in the mind of a beta man. And thus while a red pill man is told to not feel ‘hated’ as such, he is still a long way from seeing any value in his station. Given 80%+ men fit… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

” . . . men and women who have the type of wealth that most people don’t even know exists . . .” I grew up in contact with old money. Hell, my mother’s maiden name actually means old money in High German. For the people who don’t know what it means, or even that it exists, read Paul Fussell’s Class. Really wealthy people often don’t actually have a lot of money. Money is not wealth. Money is a tool. Wealthy people don’t need to buy a lot of things, for the simple reason that they already own (or indirectly… Read more »

IliadsTangent
Guest

There’s really two problems at hand here. One, we have the FI default of women and feminine-primary marriage households raising male children to be Betas.There’s many reasons for this, but I believe a big one is that women cannot conceptualize Alpha attraction. It’s a force of nature to them , and thus effectively incomprehensible. Just like I can’t vocalize as a man why it is young Latin women with large butts drive me crazy. I sure can’t explain my attraction preferences to a female with anything approaching understanding. I can describe it, but that’s like describing air travel to a… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game. I’m still trying to do this part, really. I’ve absorbed a completely different world view and buy in to it totally, but I still see myself as not fitting in it properly. It’s like I’ve completely updated how I view everything except the loser in the mirror. I’ve got evidence of how all this shit in the Red Pill view of the world works, but I still lack evidence that I’m of any value in it. For the moment I’m at an awkward… Read more »

DD
Guest
DD

I can’t seem to shake the feeling that modern women have it too good. I know this attitude won’t get me anywhere. It just seems to me like Hypergamy is a lot harder to satisfy now than in the past. Women have so much power. You have to devote an entire chapter of your life to learning women better than they know themselves. I know life isn’t fair, but I can’t shake the feeling is resentment. I long for a time when women didn’t have high notch counts, social media attention, and a society encouraging it all. How can I… Read more »

skatterbrainzz
Guest

You didn’t really touch on the social and personal dynamics of Red and blue pill in the above context. I’m curious to know if you think there is ever a distinct role for Red Pill males to point the way, so to speak. And u Der what circumstances. Keeping in mind that, using a cheap movie analogy, Neo didn’t pursue the red pill until morpheus and crew sought him out. He could’ve continued a blue pill existence forever.

Striver
Guest
Striver

Had a RP realization, I guess. Been talking to a co-worker, female, around my age, 50ish. She’s married with kids. Talked to her off and on since my separation/divorce went down last year. Now I can see a couple of instances where she threw out IOIs that I could take advantage of were I so inclined. If you are going for a workplace affair that is a common way in. Now if I wanted to do “marriage destroyer” (which I don’t) would that make me some sort of alpha versus the woman’s husband (who I know) just because he has… Read more »

olivermaerk
Guest

http://freedompowerandwealth.com

Hateing is never good and I know no really successful person, let alone alphas, who have a lot of hate in their lifes. On the other side hating is a typical character trait of losers. Some betas have the potential to develop, so what they need is the right guidance, the right training and giving them hate would mean to do everything to keep them in their inferior position.

cheupez
Guest

That picture just gets my goat thoroughly. Not hate the beta? OK. Why is that bespectacled guy just standing there? You want us to like that guy, just standing there? He wants to “make things easier for his condition?” even when he knows this girl is fucking the brains out of Mr All Smiles over there? Let him get the fuck out of there and go to the gym, or something. The only reason I will not hate that state is if I know for a fact that the boy has never seen the girls a fucking the DGAFs. It… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

I was playing Captain Save-A-Beta. The beta in question refuses to accept Fight Club reality about a particular broad. He followed all the “safe” meanings of this broad’s convo. [shakin’ mah haid]

theasdgamer
Guest

@ Striver

Long run, expecting men to constantly game women from cradle to grave is inefficient

Long run, expecting men to constantly breathe, eat, shit, and sleep is inefficient.

Edelweiss
Guest
Edelweiss

DD November 16th, 2015 at 1:51 am “I can’t seem to shake the feeling that modern women have it too good. I know this attitude won’t get me anywhere. It just seems to me like Hypergamy is a lot harder to satisfy now than in the past. Women have so much power. You have to devote an entire chapter of your life to learning women better than they know themselves. I know life isn’t fair, but I can’t shake the feeling is resentment. I long for a time when women didn’t have high notch counts, social media attention, and a… Read more »

IAS
Guest
IAS

Great post, Rollo. I unplugged fairly recently, mostly due to finding the Rational Male. One thing that certainly contributed to my unplugging was that the articles here show not just a lack of “Beta hate”, but actual compassion and care for the “Betas”. It is harder to accept advice from someone that you perceive hates you. If the reader senses the author feels “hate, pity or resent” for you (which Rollo doesn’t feel for Betas), the natural assumption is that the author does not have your best interests in mind! And then even if the true intentions of “be better”,… Read more »

matt
Guest
matt

The real red pill is that a male who is below a 6 in looks can never be on the receiving end of continued, raw sexual desire. You may have noticed that Rollo has great facial bone structure in his videos which is no doubt apart of being alpha. It’s not just about learning to dominate socially. You must swallow the whole physical pill which includes face and body. Yes, it’s somewhat fatalistic and looks like genetic determinism – because it is. You can overcome quite a bit though, but the easymode your handsome friend has with ladies is not… Read more »

Tom Arrow
Guest

Do not despise them. Just fight them. Make them hurt. They will learn.

But it likely depends on the type.

Tom Arrow
Guest

All good initiations begin with a real fear of death.

TheLastCoyote
Guest
TheLastCoyote

Part of the problem is how alpha and beta get defined more often than not. One reason I seldom visit MMSL anymore is so many guys there had a very narrow definition of alpha. They thought alpha meant you go around barking orders, bragging, and generally showing the world who’s boss. And by extension, anything other than those behaviors were automatically defined as “beta.” In other words, a lot of these guys thought alpha and asshole were pretty much one and the same. Asshole is certainly a valuable part of any alpha toolkit, but it’s far from the only part.… Read more »

cheupez
Guest

@Matt “As for betas, in many cases it’s best to let them live in ignorant bliss since most will not have the capacity to make use of redpill knowledge…” I beg to differ. Every beta out there has a pair of balls tucked somewhere between his legs. That means they can fucking make some testosterone, They can make at least one woman somewhere on this planet to submit. But they cannot do it being a pussy ass bitch. They must wear their nuts proudly. They must. But then it is just me. May be I am a retard, or have… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@ Matt

The real red pill is that a male who is below a 6 in looks can never be on the receiving end of continued, raw sexual desire.

Spoken like a true mangina. Now go sip your girlie wine and slip on your skinny jeans and go drive in your Prius to your yoga class.

theasdgamer
Guest

@ Matt

the easymode your handsome friend has with ladies is not because he is better at game.

lolz Handsome dudes with no Game go home to wank while ugly farts with Game get laid.

Looks matter when the girl initiates–not when the man initiates.

Go approach.

Mofo
Guest
Mofo

I shift easily and fluidly between alpha and beta in my dealings with other men depending on relative expertise, experience, social comfort in a given setting, and desired outcome, even swapping roles with the same men depending on the situation. There is no point in trying to out alpha a CEO who is a potential client, but once engaged you must be alpha with regard to the subject of the engagement. But I am always, always, always alpha in my dealings with women.c

Roused
Guest
Roused

Rollo: “They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in.” Indeed. It often takes trauma or some sort of rock bottom experience to awaken. It’s often not pretty and incredibly painful. If a beta is self-aware enough and has the motivation they can just read a book or The Rational Male and poof, realize what their situation is and turn Red Pill. Yeah right, maybe for some…. I’m a slow learner when it comes to relationships and gender dynamics. Had I not hit rock bottom and felt the pain I doubt I… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=trinU3VD1Zo @IliadsTangent “Two, men who realize there’s something wrong with this picture and come to understand that theyve been lied to all their lives by everyone they care about. If one thinks of being laid off at work out of the blue as a stressful betrayal, imagine what it feels like to realize every single relative you have -male and Female-has lied to you about What Women Really Want. Worse -and this will vary depending on the man and his life stage- he may also realize in the same instant he has devoted his life to the false religion of… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Rollo has great facial bone structure . . .”

If Seth Rogan had perfect bone structure, how would you know?

http://www.scifiscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/seth-rogen.jpg

And bone structure has nothing to do with that perpetual “I’m a dweeb, just punch me” look on his face.

Craiger247
Guest
Craiger247

Another excellent article Rollo. As far as “Hating The Beta”, at times it is tough when you see them, young or old (and the older generation as some of the biggest betas), still spouting from the FI handbook, or the old school beta blue pill ideals of “happy wife, happy life”. That said, I try to help as many as I can, to me I feel it’s my duty to fellow men. Remember, we were ALL that guy at one time, to various degrees. The only reason we turned red pills is because everything we were doing failed (divorce, bad… Read more »

newlyaloof
Guest

@Sun, if you’ve ever gone to college, you will know that you reach a point where your home back home is no longer your home, but your new college home isn’t quite home either. It’s a weird time, but it passes, so as another commenter said, do epic stuff for you while you are playing the game until the Red Pill is fully your new home.

leeleeinbabylon
Guest
leeleeinbabylon

To me, it seems like Beta Hating is more of a female thing. On one level, subconsciously, because women come with a built in seek-and-destroy male weakness feature. Similarly, because they are coming up short in their burden to perform, at least compared to an alpha. On a subconscious level though, I feel like women are more likely to hate Betas because their powerlessness renders the woman powerless too in a way. Strong masculinity can exist on it’s own to an extent, and femininity can too (for a while), but since femininity is about receiving and adorning, a woman will… Read more »

redlight
Guest
redlight

@leeleeinbabylon

I want to marry you

Good point, no need for men to hate betas, women always have

SJF
Guest
SJF

Heh, Leelee.

Even worse, women don’t hate Betas, they are indifferent to them. Worse than being hated, Betas are invisible as potential mates.

SJF
Guest
SJF

@Tom Arrow
“All good initiations begin with a real fear of death.”

Yeah. And a lot of bad initiations also.

Best described by Ernest Becker in “Denial of Death”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death

“When someone is experiencing depression, their causa sui (or heroism project) is failing, and they are being consistently reminded of their mortality and insignificance as a result.”

SJF
Guest
SJF

@IAS
November 16th, 2015 at 4:37 am

Pretty much why it is important to have good congruent men who are good at being men as your core group of friends. Guys that can tell you honestly what you should do when you need to be told what to do. Guys that care about you and your circumstances. Don’t neglect pursuing these males as friends.

bnon
Guest
bnon

I don’t hate the Beta, and I actually think most people in the redpill community are guy who aren’t good with girls. They are not naturals, and that’s why they seek the content. What you see is self-hate. But another point – if we take all the theory completely at face value for a moment, doesn’t society exactly need those overproducing bees that are termed beta. If every man shifted towards a redpill game frame – we still got understandable lowering desire in marriages and so I conclude that will all the cooler men, the standard for women would simply… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?

I think the only beta that red pill men hate are either the one they buried or the one they still carry around inside themselves. If another beta pisses off a red pill guy, it’s probably because he was exactly that kind of beta before he took the red pill. Is that reflection or projection?

Deathbysnusnu
Guest
Deathbysnusnu

Women’s radar for “alpha”/”beta” is fucked anyway. Stop buying their bullshit.

SJF
Guest
SJF

Deathbysnusnu Their radar in today,s society may be defective (or not). But their impulses are still driven by evolutionary brain development and hormonal influences so as to be manifested in their actions. They are going to act as they are going to act. Get used to it. To ignore these real and everyday impulses and read, study and learn them is like not have an operators manual and just winging your way through life. Women, femininity and their potential as mates can be a life force of positive input into a male’s life if you can utilize them as such.… Read more »

bo jangles
Guest
bo jangles

Its easy to say you don’t hate a coward,, but in a harsh world(which we are often far from) there is nothing lower than a coward. A man who will abandon the tribe just before the fight in the darkest hour. Is that who you want your son to be or who to surround yourself in your business or social world? I remember reading about a friend of the familty telling eliot rodgers ” I pointed out that he had the choice to change his circumstances, and if he didn’t make the effort then he had to take some of… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

@Deathbysnusnu:

Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man.
– George Patton

IAS
Guest
IAS

@SJF: I have a few good friends from high school and university, but sadly due to careers and frequently moving they are not close geographically. Furthermore, even though they were more naturally Red Pill than me due to early formative experience with females (most of them have had some “heart break” situation when they were younger), it seems that even with only one month of genuine Red Pill (and being open minded to learn from it) I already know more than they do. Since learning about this stuff I tested their awareness, describing in non-jargon terms concepts like AWALT and… Read more »

Striver
Guest
Striver

As far as the guy in the picture those, I knew/know I had that burden of performance. I cleaned myself up, started working out, got a good hairstyle, clothes sense. Been doing that for 20+ years. Never slacked off in the marriage either. Social stuff was more of a challenge, but I made some progress there as well. Never blamed anyone else if I couldn’t pull more women. Now the ex did not work out and was overweight as a result. She resented the fact that I worked out. She had one interest and left me for a guy that… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

“Trying to unplug them is risky, it is conceivable they could even tell my wife about it (out of genuine, even though misguided, concern for me).” Keep searching. But be discreet and non-judging with friends and be without an agenda. A difficult part of Red Pill Awareness is not talking about it unless you come across a good mentor. Then it is wonderful and you can let the questions fly. Don’t fear your wife learning about your knowledge (and never volunteer your awareness to her) you can always deny it’s implied negatives. And deny you know anything. Merely state “What?,… Read more »

IliadsTangent
Guest

@Striver Part of the picture is that most men are genuinely unaware of just how many options women have today. I remember a former college plate recounting a personal event. She was a TA for a science course most students needed for basic prerequisites , and she frequently had student athletes in her classes. So she wound up being a 21 year old female with direct power over athletic Alpha males. Given that , one of them offered to marry her on the spot after class.The deal was shed pass his coursework , and he’d marry her immediately with the… Read more »

ETA
Guest
ETA

The fact that there is such a rivalry between so called Alphas and Betas shows how weak masculinity has become in the face of FI. The FI is so strong that forces men to “specialize” on one side of Hypergamy or the other. The Fi has come to a point that doesn’t expect a man to be both sides of AF/BB, it forces men to chose one of or the other the FI can switch between the two and get the best of what Hypergamy demands. Men who obsess with Notch counts are just as much of an utility to… Read more »

walawala
Guest
walawala

I’ve made huge strides in getting my balls back and becoming more alpha. But I do have relapses and I brood over them—which is another beta trait. If people talk about, or make personal attacks…it bothers me. I’m better and have begun to condition myself to be less emotional and more clear-headed in my reactions. Over-reaction, being too confrontational are beta tells. I was at an event that I helped organize for a friend. The hosts were praising me in front of the group some of whom were not always friendly. Rather than enjoying the moment I was getting uncomfortable… Read more »

Jack-Jack
Guest
Jack-Jack

@ITTO
“I think the only beta that red pill men hate are either the one they buried or the one they still carry around inside themselves.”

This is spot on. Seeing the beta in action, running beta game, spouting is BP truths is what we hate. Watching them run beta game, spouting BP truths can be nauseating because they can’t/won’t accept the truth about the real world. Seeing them reminds us of the ignorant blissful misery we once operated under.

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?

I hate that “What would you do” show. Almost always, the only one acting like a prick is the paid actor.

Scott6584
Guest
Scott6584

I think that there are two big mistakes men make when trying to wade through the “Red Pill” philosophy. 1. They think in very binary terms. You are either an Alpha, a Beta, a Gamma, a Delta, etc. It is more true that there is a continuum, and the archetypes don’t accurately define any man sufficiently. That doesn’t mean that they definitions are false, or that they have no value. While I think it is certainly true that men have “natural” inclinations, it is also true that the categories define behavior as much as natural inclinations. An introvert may be… Read more »

IAS
Guest
IAS

@Rollo: many men in STEM fields (or similar) are particularly primed to be outright exploited as beta bucks. Some relatively wise women are even extremely overt about that and probably marry a STEM-man pre-wall (whereas some of the more egregious post-wall ones with unrealistic high expectations would still complain that STEM-men can’t carry conversations, like in that recent articles about women with degrees refusing to “date down”). I’m convinced that the few “rational males” that can swallow the Red Pill, can use their intelligence and experience with the scientific method to quickly reach Red Pill knowledge on par or surpassing… Read more »

D'Archimbaud
Guest
D'Archimbaud

Beta hate does seem to be a Manosphere problem. It’s of little utility to the recovering beta himself to expose himself to more scorn and ridicule. It’s very hard to change something about yourself that you haven’t first accepted; what you resist – persists – and all that. I hear a lot of talk about guys trying to ‘kill their inner beta’ etc and it smacks of anger directed inwardly and self-violence. It would be a tremendous feat of the character to transform oneself into alpha by sheer willpower. Ricky Raw does a very good analysis of how codependent PUAs… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Love the beta, hate the Blue Pill.

Fight White Knights. Shame manginas who advocate for Blue Pill.

cheupez
Guest

@bnon “I don’t hate the Beta, and I actually think most people in the redpill community are guy who aren’t good with girls. They are not naturals, and that’s why they seek the content. What you see is self-hate.” Bro, the self hate part comes off almost as if it is a shaming of sorts. If it is self hate, me thinks it is the best medicine. It is probably the fastest cure to beta pussiness and a shortcut to alphadom; if there is such a word, or whatever. A beta needs it to get out like fucking NOW. If… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

I feel like I’m in the middle between the two. Still battling some inner blue pill beta schemas, but letting my true self shine in other areas. Social interactions, some game, lifting, controlling my life and frame, never supplicating, never apologizing, raising my kids, wealth, etc. But part of me is stuck big time. Not sure how to break out of it. Its the idealized love/attraction script that holds me back. I understand it, I just don’t like it, and feel like I can’t compete in the smp. (Raw attraction and arousal) But then the wife is dripping down her… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

Hate, not hare…Wtf, phone!

One thing is, sex is better post red pill.

I would of never pounded her so fucking hard that she actually experienced pain, and understood that she liked it, before the red pill.

The Lone Planet
Guest
The Lone Planet

Society is nothing more than an overgrown high school.

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh

@leeleeinbabylon “To be mostly helpless, especially if you’re not consciously aware of the reason, as you lose your potential and your true self can be enraging.” http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t5wSSZmdFT8 @Is this thing on? “I think the only beta that red pill men hate are either the one they buried or the one they still carry around inside themselves.” From my point of view on myself that’s spot on. @SJF “The game will go on whether you like it or not.” Well stated (Every moment of my denial didn’t help me get better.) “Powerful people impress and intimidate by saying less.” http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eb5cHjUcx5o True… Read more »

jeff
Guest
jeff

If you are reading this and other manosphere blogs I have news for you………. If you are commenting on this and other manosphere blogs I have news for you……. As a RP Beta with Alpha characteristics I can only imagine all the Betas reading and commenting on here that loathe the characteristics they have that make them Beta, but want to be Alpha or write Alpha like comments. The dichotomy of A/B is too wide. Again do not Loathe the Beta as he is you and you are he. Accept it, be RP aware and hold your frame. You will… Read more »

jeff
Guest
jeff

Becoming RP aware does not make you Alpha. It makes you a more aware Beta or lower. I encourage every male to read these RP truths. Alphas live it, we have to learn it. If you have to learn to pick up women, you are not Alpha. If you are holding a steady job being promoted etc., you are not Alpha… Just because you think you are the most well versed dude on RP does not make you Alpha. Again, do not feel badly. Get to know the truths of RP and hold frame and you will be in the… Read more »

periklees
Guest
periklees

@matt “As for betas, in many cases it’s best to let them live in ignorant bliss since most will not have the capacity to make use of redpill knowledge past a certain point. It would only torture them. In many cases it can backfire – no good deed goes unpunished especially applies here.” after many attempts to share the RP and game insight with other men that i thought could benefit, I’ve given up because it’s totally a waste of time. sure at times i still throw them a link or two, but I’ve come to the realization that the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

I’ve made huge strides in getting my balls back and becoming more alpha. But I do have relapses and I brood over them—which is another beta trait. Very good point. Ruminating / brooding over past failures isn’t a good idea but it is easy to fall into for some men. There’s a better way, to be sure. What’s interesting is that many men have learned some physical skill or other at some point in their lives. Maybe it was karate, or tennis, golf, practical shooting, driving on ice, or something else. The way they learned that was practicing correctly and… Read more »

SGT Ted
Guest
SGT Ted

Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?

Is this not fundamentally true of alphas as well?

Is not Sheryl Sandberg’s advise to women to fuck the badboys and marry the betas the ultimate reveal that men are merely a means to the hypergamic ends of women’s sexual strategies over their lifetime, whether they are alpha or beta?

If so, the focus should be on that and not a pissing match between alphas and betas, right?

cheupez
Guest

“An Alpha isn’t going to, nor does he care or have time to teach others what Rollo has taught 10s of thousands of us” Because the real alpha wouldn’t GAF, right? It takes an unplugged beta to bring one to realise Red Pill? “The dichotomy of A/B is too wide. Again do not Loathe the Beta as he is you and you are he. Accept it, be RP aware and hold your frame.” Ya. RP aware enough to kill the beta. Let the frame hold solid but if the picture in the frame is beta-come-missus-mi-serve-you-for-life…fuk it and the frame too.… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?

I think it is a big error to equate red pill to alpha and blue pill to beta. Likewise, I don’t think it is fair to say that all RP types are simply a more aware beta. Blue pill indoctrination can do a real number on the most alpha children. I know of a 7 year old first hand. Natural Alpha all the way, just like his dad. Unfortunately he is being raised by a rad-fem. Over the two years I have known him, I have seen him bury the alpha with all the energy he has because he wants… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@ periklees the bullshitter The real red pill is that a male who is below a 6 in looks can never be on the receiving end of continued, raw sexual desire.” …say all the mangina omegas who have never approached a woman without first receiving an IOI and likely rarely go clubbing. btw, it gets much worse as you get older, i.e., younger women instantaneous react to you as if the first question that pops into their mind is “can i be seen in public with this guy?” I’m probably one of the oldest men who comment here and this… Read more »

Chump No More
Guest
Chump No More

@Jeff: “Becoming RP aware does not make you Alpha. It makes you a more aware Beta or lower.” I wholly agree that being RP aware does not make you alpha, but it’s sounds like you’re subscribing to the “alpha is a demographic” belief. Alpha = frame. The degree of alpha is dependent on how well you’ve internalized your frame (& MPO) and your ability at executing & maintaining it in all circumstances. Becoming a RP aware man gives you the ultimate gift of ‘choice’… most men will go through their entire lives never having known that re-gaining their personal power… Read more »

jeff
Guest
jeff

Cheupez, I think you might be throwing a gamma under the bus when you think you are throwing a beta under the bus, as you turn around and get the tingles by some beta who has learned RP truths. A true Alpha is just that. He needs no friends, will burn bridges to get money or ass. He can’t hold a job long term. Divorced or left his live in girlfriend. Or divorced a couple of times. Moved from one state to another. A beta with Alpha characteristics was once thought of by many as a cool/stud guy who gets… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

“..Most red pill men will get married, just as Rollo did, and they better have a more thought-out strategy than: become George Clooney.”

Clooney ain’t got shit on me.

Lmfao.

jeff
Guest
jeff

Chump, Couldn’t have said it better. Yes, but if you read on here long enough you get the idea that it is a demographic and everyone on here is yelling “I’M AN ALPHA SEE!” like gamer there… look at how much I get hit on by HB20s. To me that screams I am beta who wants to be seen as alpha in a demographic way. I know 2 true alphas. One has been in and out of rehab, jail, exish wife supports him. Dude is a stud in some ways, but I would never want what he has. The other… Read more »

jeff
Guest
jeff

George Clooney….. Beta!!!!!

Why? What kind of schlub pays anyone their hard earned money? Look at what he is doling out to ex wives…. Regardless of whether he divorced them or they divorced him. He is paying, ie he is beta

Fred Flange, substitute beachball
Guest
Fred Flange, substitute beachball

I don’t know @asdgamer but I know he speaks true, @periklees. There’s an older fellow I see at a local pool club during the summer, 60-ish. pony tail, hippy beard, a wee bit tubby. And yet: he knows every woman, old, young, cute, HB10,whatevs, and they know him. Nothing special to look at but he tells lots of stories and has had many adventures. I call him The Most Interesting Man In The World, while he doesn’t look or sound like the beer ad guy he has the attitude. Go thou and do likewise.

theasdgamer
Guest

everyone on here is yelling “I’M AN ALPHA SEE!” like gamer there… look at how much I get hit on by HB20s.

Illiterati gonna illiterate. Try again, Junior. 🙂

Chris James
Guest
Chris James

“I may debate with other men’s takes on how the importance of looks plays in to a man’s overall Game and appeal…” I would be fascinated to know what form these arguments would take and what position you would take, as in my estimation attraction is primarily predicated on looks and roughly 90% based physical attraction and socio-economic status. The social aspect is more important to women when you’re younger and the economic status becomes more important as you get older. What you call ‘game’, and what I would call social skills, can make a small contribution to your attractiveness,… Read more »

One
Guest
One

I’d like to know how many babes the oldest guy here has actually fucked, not merely gotten some attention from. Lot of tough talk in some of these comments, but I wonder what the count is for real action.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“It’s a waste of time to try one execution and then agonize over “ohhhh, I totally biffed that” . . .” In fact, it’s a pedagogical error. We aren’t trying to fail, we’re trying to succeed. When, after a number of failed executions you get it right think “Ohhhh! That’s what I’m supposed to do. Do more of that.” If you are driving on ice and all of a sudden the car isn’t going where you want it to, look where you want it to go. Your behaviour will follow your attention, so if you look where you don’t want… Read more »

DarkTriadMan (@DarkTriadMan)
Guest

@Chris James – “…attraction is primarily predicated on looks and roughly 90% based physical attraction and socio-economic status. The social aspect is more important to women when you’re younger and the economic status becomes more important as you get older.” Looks are not the driver, nor is socioeconomic status. Both assist with the sale process but neither are the determiners of closing the deal. What closes the deal is the power of the spirit and the ability to display it and direct it with charisma. That’s part of where the power of the alpha comes from. It comes from his… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

I will say that I cheat. Shave my head and wear a black cap. Dye my beard. Dress stylishly. Move like I’m in my 40s because I take supplements and lift and walk. And I have the ZFG attitude that people assume goes with a young man. Last Sat. night at a large club with 500 people in addition to the 21 y.o. HB6 and the HB9 I mentioned previously: 1. I approached an HB8 who was with a date. No one else danced with her. Men were looking at her from all over. 2. I opened a table of… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@ One

I’d like to know how many babes the oldest guy here has actually fucked, not merely gotten some attention from. Lot of tough talk in some of these comments, but I wonder what the count is for real action.

Why does that matter? The issue is whether young women worry about being seen publicly with older men. (NB: I’m married and any information about my carnal activity is classified.)

One
Guest
One

Oh I see, that again. If ya gotta ask…

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

” I’d like to know how many babes the oldest guy here has actually fucked, not merely gotten some attention from. Lot of tough talk in some of these comments, but I wonder what the count is for real action.” Someone had a tall cold glass of haterade this afternoon. I don’t hate betas, but comments like this one and the ” Alpha guy I knew was an asshole/jobless drifter/living in basement..” make me raise an eyebrow and SMH. I don’t brag, it’s unbecoming, and I don’t collect notches so to speak, but a question asked out of curiosity without… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Move like I’m in my 40s . . .”

I wouldn’t worry about it. Keep working at it and you’ll get there. Have a look at Georges Hébert’s Natural Method. It’s the granddaddy of Parkour. Maybe add some gymnastics progressions to your routine.

Luxocrat
Guest
Luxocrat

@JD –

Curious to know what was the impetus to marry a second time and, if you don’t mind answering that, were you Red Pill aware before the second marriage or thereafter? Much appreciated.

Tim
Guest
Tim

Can’t wait to see all you supposed alpha males dead and buried. You freaks are the majority of men’s worst enemy. Fortunately, most of you end up in prison or otherwise destroyed after reality comes crashing in on you. That or you end up being ISIS revolutionaries. FU alphas. Long live de-naived betas.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

ASD, It’s been my personal experience that younger women for the most part do not have an issue with a man’s age. Younger cats seem to really hate this. I kinda get it, but hate is such a useless thing. There’s about a 10% chance that a man in his 40’s-50’s will approach a 19-25 year old chick and get totally blown out with the ” eww…you’re older than my daddy ” vibe. I have found this fascinating myself. Guys don’t realize that standing at a distance and staring at chicks will not get them laid. Seems obvious… So when… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown

As a guy with a decent amount of money, both in assets and cash flow…

Stop with the money gets you laid trope.

Seriously.

Money creates interest, sure. But only if you advertise the fact that ya got cash, which is a form of game in itself.

Money by itself means very little with getting laid unless you literally just pay for pussy. (Not necessarily hookers)

Money is a tool, no more.

Most rich guys that get laid ALSO live pretty badass lives, but there are far more type A personality rich people that are not getting any.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

“…Can’t wait to see all you supposed alpha males dead and buried. You freaks are the majority of men’s worst enemy. Fortunately, most of you end up in prison or otherwise destroyed after reality comes crashing in on you. That or you end up being ISIS revolutionaries. FU alphas. Long live de-naived betas.”

LaughOutLoud

jeff
Guest
jeff

ASD,

Keep writing partner (you go girl!)… you are the alpha of alphas.

redlight
Guest
redlight

Allow me to introduce you to my esteemed colleague YaReally,…

I don’t see why YaReally has to waste his time when these idiots show up. The idiot says game is just social skills.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

in my estimation attraction is primarily predicated on looks and roughly 90% based physical attraction and socio-economic status. The social aspect is more important to women when you’re younger and the economic status becomes more important as you get older.

That’s why Bill Gates has such a hot wife, right? Because his ec-o-nom-ic status game is killer.

This thread sure brought some men in need of learnin’ out of the woodwork.

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky

We talk a lot about how possible it is for beta to go alpha, if it’s worth the effort, if the end result is ‘real’ alpha, etc. The way I see it is, we’re all playing a great ruthless game as men. Always have been. It’s just the current prosperous circumstances and the FI have successfully blinded many men to that reality. We don’t put the message out there thinking that all men will or can be winners. We put it out there because, with the red pill, they at least know that they’re playing the game You can’t finish… Read more »

Scott6584
Guest
Scott6584

@One You are confusing N-Count with Alpha. For example, my father was very Alpha, but he was also married with children. He maintained his frame throughout his life, and my mother talks about how great her sex life was with him (he died young.) He got laid often, even if it was with the same woman – because she never lost her attraction for him. He also got hit on by other women. My father got terminally ill when I was in High School, and we had many long conversations during my last 2 years of High School when we… Read more »

Chris James
Guest
Chris James

@DarkTriadMale “What closes the deal is the power of the spirit and the ability to display it and direct it with charisma. That’s part of where the power of the alpha comes from. It comes from his spirit, which does not accept a lesser beta role.” I would agree that personality and charisma can ‘close the deal’. There will be no deal in the first place if there is no attraction in the first place, and in my estimation, as I said previously, this is predicated on 90% looks and socio-economic status. That is obviously an estimation because assessing attraction… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky

@Sun Wukong

“I’m not entirely sure who’s in the mirror anymore, honestly.”

Fuck mirrors, man. I use one for a quick ‘do I look like a dumbass’ check before I go out the door, not to inspect my skin for zits.

Intelligence is useful. Introspection is an occupational hazard.

btw, I left ya a long comment at the tail end of the Always Default to Game thread just in case you didn’t see it.

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