Don’t Hate the Beta

beta_hate

A common refrain I hear from even some well meaning Red Pill aware men is that there is some degree of disdain for the “Beta” man in the sphere. There’s not so much a rejection of apparent Red Pill truths as there is a schoolyard mentality when it comes to characterizing a guy as Alpha or Beta. This is where where a lot of guys turn themselves off to the Red Pill in a community sense.

In a way I suppose it becomes reminiscent of guys having been bullied in their formative years by the guys they now have a mental image of being archetypically “Alpha”. So it follows that concepts like AMOGing or running a ‘Boyfriend Destroyer’ script is distasteful; a lot of men, that is to say the 80%+ Beta men, have likely experienced this disqualification in direct or indirect ways in their youth. Sometimes that may simply be a girl he had his ONEitis sights set on opting for a more Alpha guy after telling him she wasn’t ready for a relationship, or it may be a more direct experience of having sand metaphorically kicked in his face.

Thus it becomes a matter of course to entirely dismiss the nuts & bolts understanding of how abstracts like Alpha and Beta are used in the sphere. The default understanding goes something like this, “Those Red Pillers just hate on Betas to build themselves up” or some other version of this where the Red Pill becomes a Machiavellian free for all at the expense of other, ‘lesser’, men.

It’s either this or the abstractions of Alpha and Beta are reduced to absurd binary interpretations; Alphas become ridiculous ‘douchebag’ parodies and Betas become pathetic, simpering doormats for the world to tread upon. In either case the purpose of reducing these abstracts as such is an effort in dismissing the uncomfortable, as well as evidently observable qualities and truths of the intersexual environment that plays out around us.

For the record I think it’s important for Red Pill men to remain as objective and disinvested from making qualitative assumptions about what constitutes the Alpha and Beta abstractions. I don’t hate, pity or resent Beta men. Neither do I embrace the idea that Alpha archetypes as necessarily positive or negative. For the moment however, I’m going to focus on Beta men.

The Presumption of Control

As I mentioned above, one of the primary dismissals men have when they encounter Red Pill thought is to blow it off because “it’s all just a bunch of hating on Betas.” And that presumption comes only if a guy is willing to consider the abstracts of Alpha and Beta in the first place – most simply don’t want to recognize specific ‘statuses’ or defining characteristics of men or women, and just fall back on the “all is relative, all is subjective” mindset they’ve been conditioned to. People are People, there is no human “nature” so there is no male or female “nature”.

But for the guy who at least accepts the idea of human natures, I can certainly understand the reservations of men whose identities were conditioned to a more Beta role. There’s not much positive to characterize a Beta mindset with beyond the utility that conditioning serves to society and women’s sexual strategy. Betas do in fact get laid; the terms on which, and how their sexuality fits their utilitarian role in women’s Hypergamous plan is the real question.

I was recently asked if I thought Beta men employing Beta Game was a successful strategy in the larger scheme of things. If success means that Beta Game will get him laid, I’m incredulous about it. The presumption is that the Beta man employing that ‘game’ is in some way directing and controlling the outcome of his ‘success’. I’d argue that what he believes is ‘game’ is simply his utility to a woman coming into an optimal window for her necessity of him. So is his ‘strategy’ really successful, or is he simply the best ‘Plan B‘ a woman has available to her while her own SMV decays to the point where he’s her best option?

Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?

I think a lot of what guys new to the manosphere perceive as Beta hate is simply the presumption of control they believe they should be able to exercise with women. After having been told for the the better part of their lives that the more accommodating and identifying with women they are will lead to them being accepted by women it’s a presumption that this is some means of socially acceptable control for them.

It’s very galling to have men place fault on a guy for things he knows are out of his control. I fully understand the angst and frustration that leads to things like Beta Uprising and men frustrated with intersexual dynamics taking it out on the whole of society before they swallow a bullet themselves.

It essentially amounts to victim blaming; Betas are hapless and hopeless mules brainwashed and indentured to serve not just the Feminine Imperative (which would be galling enough), but also to have the pains and strivings that society demands of them be rewarded with women’s genuine intimate interests focusing on Alpha men.

That sucks.

PUAs telling a guy it’s on him as to why women are boring to him, or uninterested in him sexually, only reinforces that angst. It’s like a pastor telling you that if you’d only prayed harder or more earnestly God would have cured your Mom of cancer. So they hate the Alpha, they hate the PUA, they hate the hotchickswithdouchebags guy, but they also hate women and the social/biological mechanics of the position they’re placed in. It presumes a control that he believes he’s never had, nor ever will.

So there comes a point where that Beta wants, sometimes adamantly insists, for his own burden of performance to be replaced, or at least handicapped, by a woman meeting him half way. This want is rooted in his Blue Pill presumption that people are people and in the equalist notion that women’s hindbrains can (willingly) be overridden when it comes to arousal, attraction and intersexual dynamics. Again, if there is no human nature it should stand to reason that a woman could potentially choose that Beta for all the reasons he’s been conditioned to believe she should choose him for. If there is a female nature, and that nature follows (with some degree of consistency) Red Pill aware truths, then his frustrations are founded on his own lack.

But these guys aren’t Blue Pill oblivious men, they are Red Pill aware. They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in. So when these guys are put into that place they have a few choices: Snap and take out themselves and as many others as they can, go isolationist MGTOW and retreat to minimal societal investment, go MRA and impotently try to enact legislation that they think will even the social playing filed from the top down, or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.

The Burden of Fault

Whether it’s fair or not, by virtue of being a man, you’re going to have to accept your burden of performance. That burden includes your liability of accepting fault even for things that aren’t your fault per se. It’s not your fault that you were born and raised into a feminine-primary social order that conditioned you to be an accommodating utility for it – but irrespective of that, you will be held liable for not complying with it or resisting it. You are a man, you will always be accountable.

Is that fucked up? Yes. So with that in mind it is up to you as a Red Pill aware Man to decide for yourself what is worth your investment. Yes my friend, women can be amazing, interesting vivacious and fun, but they can also be fucked up and stupid and absolutely not worth your time, money and effort. It isn’t your fault they are the way they are, but it is your fault for investing yourself in something you’re not enjoying or profiting by.

With all of the railing against women not being worthwhile one would think that would prompt these men to being indifferent to women – but they aren’t. Even the most ardent MGTOW and hapless Beta Red Pill denier still wants women; he simply wants her in his context and his frame on his terms – and to genuinely want to be a part of all that. There’s nothing wrong with this desire, this is precisely what I advise with regards to Frame control, but the disconnect comes in how men go about establishing a Frame women want to be a part of.

Get Out There

I may debate with other men’s takes on how the importance of looks plays in to a man’s overall Game and appeal, but one thing I won’t argue with is the importance of men putting themselves out there and into situations that will most certainly take them out of their comfort zones.

For almost 20 years I have made a living doing exactly this. I have worked in gaming, liquor and brand development ventures that have put me into venues that range from Goth/Alternative/Hipster sets to LGBT events, to mixing with men and women who have the type of wealth that most people don’t even know exists. My career, family and personal life has been my Red Pill classroom and laboratory for all this, and in all of these contexts I have found a way to enjoy myself and/or learn from these interactions.

One reason I will never look to writing Red Pill books as a career option is because it would remove me from the very source of my observations. Living it is the only way keep learning from it. On my own time, I would very likely prefer to lock myself in my studio and paint or sculpt, or to create something new to work into a brand, often to the exclusion of my wife and family and the many friends I have. I’m a very social guy, but I would probably not feel compelled to head off to a night club or any of the events I involve myself in professionally on a weekly basis.

When I’m doing a promo, I know I’m not going to hook up, so I find enjoyment in watching and learning from what I see going on around me. I can’t drink when I’m on a promo or doing a trade show, so even that can’t be a source enjoyment. So why fucking do it right? I make money at it, and it beats living in a cubicle, but I’d much rather be creating new things, new brands, new ideas than interacting with half-buzzed hipsters who think they’re too cool to be there or obnoxious 40 something divorcés ‘sampling’ vodka and hoping to drink their spinsterhood away.

I enjoy what I do and it helps me help other guys. I put myself out in the wild because it’s part of my job(s), but I honestly enjoy interacting with even the dullards and the drunks. It’s what I invest myself in. That may sound like torture to you, but it’s really contextual. I have friends I’ve made at underground Goth events who would blanch at the thought of what I do at a golf tournament. I’m not saying you need to be a social chameleon, but understand that your social education will always be domain dependent if you stay in the settings that make you the most comfortable.

Don’t Hate the Beta

As I mentioned earlier, I don’t hate Beta men. For a long time in my Blue Pill past I was one of them, and I can fully understand the want to mischaracterize an Alpha mindset in order to preserve a sense of self-worth. Beta men don’t warrant pity or disgust, but rather they need a tough harsh awakening to the reality of the situation they find themselves in.

I don’t think Beta men are hopeless, but they will remain in a state of hopelessness so long as they subscribe to a want of making things easier for their condition rather than improving themselves to better play the Game. That’s hard to hear for most Beta men and I understand the protective need for denial in this, but I know of very few Red Pill men who really despise Beta or Blue Pill men. They despise his indentured state, they despise his willful obliviousness to his conditioned uses. They despise the lengths to which Blue Pill men will go in their hope to be appreciated by the system that made them what they are.

765 comments

  1. First comment here….

    I feel conflicted over as to what attitude to adopt with the guys who insist on Blue pill. On one hand, they are our fellow men and we need to make sure that they are made aware of the reality, whether they acknowledge it or not.

    On the other hand, I see vapid scumbags like David Futtrell and it makes my blood boil. That they should be publicly humiliated by virtue of the very truths they tried to deny. They should be made an example of. Perhaps when a red pill fact touches him personally, will such a person wake up?

  2. Thank you Rollo, you mentioned you were going to write “Solipism III”
    That it might discuss how one can turn it to ones favor. Will we see it soon?

  3. Excellent, Rollo.

    I say, to anyone reading who’s been in my situation (twice-married, alienated from kids, former churchian):

    Resist the temptation to double down on what you’ve been doing. Stop. Slam on the brakes. If it hasn’t worked for 20 years it isn’t going to work. The cavalry is NOT coming.

    Step back and recognize that the social contract you were trained into was torn up by women decades ago. The crucible of emotional agony you are immersed in is there to wake you up. It’s a GOOD thing.

    Re-arm with the truth. Heal. Forgive. Take all the time YOU need.

    … then yeah, get out there.

  4. “Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?”

    “They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in.”

    Death had my nephews grandpa kill himself over the weekend.
    “or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.”

    Fashion fitness sense of adventure.

    “but irrespective of that, you will be held liable for not complying with it or resisting it. You are a man, you will always be accountable.”

    Agreed what a wonder to hold in me.

    “but the disconnect comes in how men go about establishing a Frame women want to be a part of.”

    Perfect is boring

    “but one thing I won’t argue with is the importance of men putting themselves out there and into situations that will most certainly take them out of their comfort zones.”

    Comedy improve

    “but understand that your social education will always be domain dependent if you stay in the settings that make you the most comfortable.”

    Offline new places news surroundings

    “Alpha mindset in order to preserve a sense of self-worth. Beta men don’t warrant pity or disgust, but rather they need a tough harsh awakening to the reality of the situation they find themselves in.”

    High school

    “They despise the lengths to which Blue Pill men will go in their hope to be appreciated by the system that made them what they are.”

    Man I am really getting better. Thank you Rollo for helping me as a male and human.

  5. There is the characterization of ‘beta’ men, a descriptor of convenience in these discussions, one that often reverts to the hierarchical to reveal some portion of the thesis, and there is the pajoratove ‘beta’, which is applied easy and often as a shortcut to the undesirable station and/or behaviors of a man.

    It is not so easy to separate the two in the mind of a beta man. And thus while a red pill man is told to not feel ‘hated’ as such, he is still a long way from seeing any value in his station. Given 80%+ men fit this, there remains a significant hurdle for red pill teachings: to reveal the natural hierarchy (being beta) and the truths of attraction and mating corresponding to such, while fostering an aspirational Alpha mindset, while avoiding the trappings of self-loathing inherent in both.

    The beta as hierarchy is a natural outcome of the red pill, which of course reflects the natural order of the mating game. But the beta pejorative is worth noting. Beta may not be ‘hated’ but it is not valued either; it is a tricky thing to internalize for a man who is awakening in a bed of lies.

    I’ve noticed that this hierarchy also rests easy on the good/bad binary. As the RP discussion – and its various tenets leak into the mainstream, I’ve seen an uptick in these terms applied to a wide variety of situations. In theory the beta may not be a good/bad, or an issue of ‘hate’, but it its certainly not a label used to indicate positive value.

    When the pejorative is used by women outside the RP arena (as I am seeing more often) it almost always represents a significant level of disdain. This use in mainstream seems to be a natural extension of the 80/20, open hypergamy, and anti-male sentiment, but it serves as a vivid barometer of value for RP beta men challenged with plowing forward into Game, etc.

    So while I understand the point of ‘hate the system not the man’ just as the PUAs say ‘hate the game not the player’, it is not so easy to dismiss when so much is ultimately designed to “kill the beta”.

    The thirsty beta trope comes to mind as well, which seems an awful lot like beta hate given that the thirst is really just one more version of poosy chasing and validation that is not so different in terms of feeding the beast than the PUA and Alpha tack. One feeds from the bottom up, the other from the top down. Seems like the difference is that of the disdain for the beta; he is not a winner, he is a consolation prize. But in the end, the negative aspects of ‘thirst’ aren’t that different in terms of how it corrupts, how a mans attention/investment is fueling the destructive mechanisms within the SMP.

  6. ” . . . men and women who have the type of wealth that most people don’t even know exists . . .”

    I grew up in contact with old money. Hell, my mother’s maiden name actually means old money in High German. For the people who don’t know what it means, or even that it exists, read Paul Fussell’s Class.

    Really wealthy people often don’t actually have a lot of money. Money is not wealth. Money is a tool. Wealthy people don’t need to buy a lot of things, for the simple reason that they already own (or indirectly control) everything. For instance, the money in your pocket right now. It’s not yours. They actually own it, plus interest.

    The principle thing they need money for is to buy . . . people. People like yourself, and like Bill Gates. Money is easier and more effective than whips and chains.

    ” . . . living in a cubicle . . .”

    Just shoot me now.

  7. There’s really two problems at hand here. One, we have the FI default of women and feminine-primary marriage households raising male children to be Betas.There’s many reasons for this, but I believe a big one is that women cannot conceptualize Alpha attraction. It’s a force of nature to them , and thus effectively incomprehensible. Just like I can’t vocalize as a man why it is young Latin women with large butts drive me crazy. I sure can’t explain my attraction preferences to a female with anything approaching understanding. I can describe it, but that’s like describing air travel to a bumblebee.

    As such women can’t raise male children to be Alphas any more then I can explain calculus derivatives to a garter snake. You can’t teach what you don’t understand.

    As such most males being raised are told information which is effectively self-destructive to their SMV. It should be noted that while a females SMV is self evident in her biological appearance , a man’s SMV is more social and mindset based.A 5’2″ man with the mindset of Genghis Khan will pull more women then the 6’2″ Brad Pitt impersonator weighed down by Beta mental schemas. We see this all the time in the military; massive hulks of muscular humanity who are just as betaized in the head as your beanpole geek. They also get treated and used just as harshly by women out for their own hustle, as anyone whose lived near or on a base can readily confirm.

    You can’t raise a biologically pretty girl to abandon her biggest SMV advantage. She’s born pretty and will thus be attractive to males no matter how strict or permissive the family household is, or what she’s raised to believe. A man’s mind , however, is the seat of his enduring SMV.Feed it Beta schemas and a man’s SMV really is destroyed. Even if he physically attracts women , his Beta mental schemas ensure hell always be taken advantage of under the tenets of Hypergamy.

    Thus I describe the second problem. Combine a man’s SMV being rooted in the mind with our feminized society putting women-justified or not-as the default Heads of Households, and it equates to a lot of males who fit one of the two following broad categories.

    One, plowhorses worked into the grave by his wife/fiancee and later her (not HIS!) kids and her relatives.
    Two, men who realize there’s something wrong with this picture and come to understand that theyve been lied to all their lives by everyone they care about. If one thinks of being laid off at work out of the blue as a stressful betrayal, imagine what it feels like to realize every single relative you have -male and Female-has lied to you about What Women Really Want. Worse -and this will vary depending on the man and his life stage- he may also realize in the same instant he has devoted his life to the false religion of pedistalizing women.

    It’s like waking up one day and realizing -no offense to Christians- that there’s inarguable evidence Jesus was a pedophillic terrorist. Discovering women aren’t spice and everything nice has so many social and personal meanings wrapped up in it for modern beta men that discovering the truth can be mentally traumatizing. Many men say we’ll turn around and one day Masculinity will regain social traction with a renewed Patriarchy . I disagree as frankly 80% of males alive would either find RedPill truth totally preposterous, or genuinely traumatizing on a mental level to process. Good luck overturning social advancement of the FI when most men literally depend on it for their personal identities as human beings.

  8. or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.

    I’m still trying to do this part, really.

    I’ve absorbed a completely different world view and buy in to it totally, but I still see myself as not fitting in it properly. It’s like I’ve completely updated how I view everything except the loser in the mirror. I’ve got evidence of how all this shit in the Red Pill view of the world works, but I still lack evidence that I’m of any value in it.

    For the moment I’m at an awkward middle stage. I’m too sick of the old role I fit in to settle for it anymore, but I’m still too inexperienced at what I’m trying to become to find success in it. Hell I’m not even completely sure what I’m trying to become. Just kinda caught mid-jump between two worlds and not sure I jumped hard enough to make it. I damn sure can’t get back to where I jumped from. I know that much.

    I’m not entirely sure who’s in the mirror anymore, honestly.

  9. I can’t seem to shake the feeling that modern women have it too good. I know this attitude won’t get me anywhere. It just seems to me like Hypergamy is a lot harder to satisfy now than in the past. Women have so much power. You have to devote an entire chapter of your life to learning women better than they know themselves. I know life isn’t fair, but I can’t shake the feeling is resentment. I long for a time when women didn’t have high notch counts, social media attention, and a society encouraging it all. How can I shake this feeling of resentment that is holding me back, and focus on self improvement and my Game?

  10. You didn’t really touch on the social and personal dynamics of Red and blue pill in the above context. I’m curious to know if you think there is ever a distinct role for Red Pill males to point the way, so to speak. And u Der what circumstances. Keeping in mind that, using a cheap movie analogy, Neo didn’t pursue the red pill until morpheus and crew sought him out. He could’ve continued a blue pill existence forever.

  11. Had a RP realization, I guess. Been talking to a co-worker, female, around my age, 50ish. She’s married with kids. Talked to her off and on since my separation/divorce went down last year. Now I can see a couple of instances where she threw out IOIs that I could take advantage of were I so inclined. If you are going for a workplace affair that is a common way in.

    Now if I wanted to do “marriage destroyer” (which I don’t) would that make me some sort of alpha versus the woman’s husband (who I know) just because he has not completely mateguarded his family 100%? Like me, whose wife left him for another man. Because I read a lot of the FRs out here regarding married guys as chumps because they aren’t constantly outgaming every man out there.

    I get the idea of burden of performance. Life stinks for the average man in a way it doesn’t for an average woman. HOWEVER, this is why men make physical, legal, and social inventions to LOWER the burden of performance. Everything invented by men, males not mankind, is to make things easier. That’s a rational response. Long run, expecting men to constantly game women from cradle to grave is inefficient. Any more than me having to constantly fear that, if I were married, other men might kill me so they can take over my family. That’s natural law too, but we have police and laws to keep that from happening as much as possible.

  12. http://freedompowerandwealth.com

    Hateing is never good and I know no really successful person, let alone alphas, who have a lot of hate in their lifes. On the other side hating is a typical character trait of losers. Some betas have the potential to develop, so what they need is the right guidance, the right training and giving them hate would mean to do everything to keep them in their inferior position.

  13. That picture just gets my goat thoroughly. Not hate the beta? OK. Why is that bespectacled guy just standing there? You want us to like that guy, just standing there? He wants to “make things easier for his condition?” even when he knows this girl is fucking the brains out of Mr All Smiles over there? Let him get the fuck out of there and go to the gym, or something. The only reason I will not hate that state is if I know for a fact that the boy has never seen the girls a fucking the DGAFs.

    It is not easy not to hate the beta, if that beta is rejecting Red Pill truth. If he is rejecting Red Pill truth I would say like it says somewhere on some previous post; read them the last rites. Fuk him. It is sad how a man can knowingly embrace servitude. Why should he do that to himself?

    I think Red Pill and alpha are not easy to disentangle. They are like growth and nutrient. Without one, the other dies, or keeps faltering. I don’t think most alphas can explain Red Pill truth. They get entangled too. They fuck the women, and dump each and every one of them. But still, some of the women get past the barriers and come close enough. It is just that their “selfish” nature (actually it is more like base survival instinct) does not allow them to give in. I think they just have this nagging feeling that women have some agenda that is covert until it becomes revealed some time in their teenage years.

    I do not know how to thank the stars for getting me onto this site. I realized after reading a few year one posts that I would have been as beta as fuck if I did not have my father/grandfather to thank for. They have/had an attitude. Red Pill truths are inborn knowledge to some men, I think. But to most of us, we have to be told.

    But if someone rubs Red Pill truth into a man’s nose, and the man refuses to acknowledge that truth, I say he is entitled to his choice. Which is what women/media are doing, rubbing Red Pill truth into our nose! You need nutrition to grow. You don’t want to eat, just die already. Eat and grow.

  14. I was playing Captain Save-A-Beta. The beta in question refuses to accept Fight Club reality about a particular broad. He followed all the “safe” meanings of this broad’s convo. [shakin’ mah haid]

  15. @ Striver

    Long run, expecting men to constantly game women from cradle to grave is inefficient

    Long run, expecting men to constantly breathe, eat, shit, and sleep is inefficient.

  16. DD

    November 16th, 2015 at 1:51 am

    “I can’t seem to shake the feeling that modern women have it too good. I know this attitude won’t get me anywhere. It just seems to me like Hypergamy is a lot harder to satisfy now than in the past. Women have so much power. You have to devote an entire chapter of your life to learning women better than they know themselves. I know life isn’t fair, but I can’t shake the feeling is resentment. I long for a time when women didn’t have high notch counts, social media attention, and a society encouraging it all. How can I shake this feeling of resentment that is holding me back, and focus on self improvement and my Game?”

    Your post mirrors some of my own recent thoughts about the place we find ourselves in. I’m in an unusual situation compared to a lot of men. The vast majority of my co-workers are women in their late teens to mid 40’s. I’ve seen countless examples of what we read on these pages.

    Women have never been more open about hypergamy. One recently married woman was showing a younger co-worker pictures of the house she and her new husband are having built, and said, “see, this is what marriage can get you”. The older one was basically critiquing the other girl’s life plan/strategy, and telling her she needed to lock down a good prospect, and quit dating low paid losers.

    It’s common for women who don’t know me to go into “interview” mode if they’re interested. The criteria change with the woman’s age. If she likes what she hears, it’s time to escalate. If she doesn’t, time to back off. I’ve had women who know I make a good income tell me they want a sugar daddy. It is that blatant. Once they decide you’re worth pursuing, they’ve said anything from “yeah I don’t have a boyfriend right now, you single?”, to “I wanna fuck your brains out”. Depends on the girl.

    For those still holding out for the “good girl”. She doesn’t exist. Wake the fuck up! If you are still intent on marrying, good luck. You are competing with an entire culture that’s telling her she can have it all. Think you can overcome that?

    My resentment has faded considerably. I came to the realization that it’s not going to help me, at all. My resolve is to increase my understanding of how it all comes together, and adapt. No woman will be able to empathize with your position, because they’ve never experienced it the way you do. They can conceptualize what we’re talking about but they have never, and will never, live it. Feeling sorry for yourself, or being mired in bitterness is a waste of your life.

  17. Great post, Rollo.

    I unplugged fairly recently, mostly due to finding the Rational Male. One thing that certainly contributed to my unplugging was that the articles here show not just a lack of “Beta hate”, but actual compassion and care for the “Betas”.

    It is harder to accept advice from someone that you perceive hates you. If the reader senses the author feels “hate, pity or resent” for you (which Rollo doesn’t feel for Betas), the natural assumption is that the author does not have your best interests in mind!
    And then even if the true intentions of “be better”, “go lift” are good, they are at risk of being interpreted as “I hate you, so stop being you”.

    “Just be yourself” can be pretty crappy advice, but “I hate you, stop being you” is conceivably worse.

    So it is important that Rollo’s version of the Red Pill is essentially showing us “I understand you, and here is why you should work to be the best you can be”.

    Thank you, Rollo.

  18. The real red pill is that a male who is below a 6 in looks can never be on the receiving end of continued, raw sexual desire. You may have noticed that Rollo has great facial bone structure in his videos which is no doubt apart of being alpha. It’s not just about learning to dominate socially. You must swallow the whole physical pill which includes face and body. Yes, it’s somewhat fatalistic and looks like genetic determinism – because it is. You can overcome quite a bit though, but the easymode your handsome friend has with ladies is not because he is better at game.

    A large part of the blue pill is about the optimism of males compensating for their looks in hopes women will recognize who they are “as a person”. The holy scriptures that state 35 is when you will be at prime attractiveness is somewhat foolish in my view. I know Rollo has a more nuanced view of the smv chart which I appreciate, yet many seem to gloss over some of that. The common idea is that your career will have taken off by then and you’ve “lifted heavy” and are “jacked” at last. However, unless that is accompanied by higher status of non-monetary means, you are just a better beta bucks. That is, of course, assuming you will eventually get married. If not, then there is no need to plan – just charge forward.

    If you will marry, though, I really hope it doesn’t depend on reaching down 10 years to find a somewhat loyal bride without an alpha graveyard. You may realize too late that you have over-estimated your pulling power and will be in the fabulous realm of the 28-32 year old alpha widow who has a far likelier chance of giving you a sexless marriage and rewarding you with divorce papers. What a nightmare it will be if, having read about female sexual strategy for endless hours, to now find your options to be that of desperate girls at the wall who have the greatest capacity for deceit known to man. You may just have stayed blue-pill all along if you make this error! Of course, with enough hubris you may actually believe it is your incredible smv which is producing such interest from the ladies and not their diminished options. Let’s hope your at the top of your game if you marry a slut, for that is where game can really shine – LTR’s.

    I only say this as a reminder to not forget the difference between your marriage market value and your sexual market value, which may as well be called your tinder value. Of course, if you do marry a 30 year old slut at 40, you can be ok in divorce as long as you saved a lot of wealth prior to the marriage. The golden rule for you, then, is: I will never co-mingle pre-marital assets with community property.

    Basically, the optimum mmv is probably 27 with a max 6 year pull capacity, where you may at least have a fighting chance of finding a decent, young wife, while also consolidating on some portion of your potential. Most red pill men will get married, just as Rollo did, and they better have a more thought-out strategy than: become George Clooney. Of course there are anecdotes to the contrary, but you should put the odds on your side while still striving to be a top 1% man.

    As for betas, in many cases it’s best to let them live in ignorant bliss since most will not have the capacity to make use of redpill knowledge past a certain point. It would only torture them. In many cases it can backfire – no good deed goes unpunished especially applies here.

  19. Part of the problem is how alpha and beta get defined more often than not. One reason I seldom visit MMSL anymore is so many guys there had a very narrow definition of alpha. They thought alpha meant you go around barking orders, bragging, and generally showing the world who’s boss. And by extension, anything other than those behaviors were automatically defined as “beta.” In other words, a lot of these guys thought alpha and asshole were pretty much one and the same.

    Asshole is certainly a valuable part of any alpha toolkit, but it’s far from the only part. Sometimes the most alpha thing you can do is to keep your mouth shut (think Law #4 – Always Say Less Than Necessary from the 48 Laws of Power). And asshole should only be a tool, not your default mode.

    How alpha are you really if no one wants to follow you, no one wants to be around you, and no one ever feels better after having been around you? Big difference between pissing people off and making them hate you.

  20. @Matt

    “As for betas, in many cases it’s best to let them live in ignorant bliss since most will not have the capacity to make use of redpill knowledge…”

    I beg to differ. Every beta out there has a pair of balls tucked somewhere between his legs. That means they can fucking make some testosterone, They can make at least one woman somewhere on this planet to submit. But they cannot do it being a pussy ass bitch. They must wear their nuts proudly. They must. But then it is just me. May be I am a retard, or have a psychotic affinity for pussy. I want to fuck anything that can make my dick stand.

    The idea of a man dying without riding at least one wet pussy in his life? It makes me sad. I don’t know why I find that statement funny. May be it is because wet pussy is meaningless. But it makes one feel gud. It just does, and that means something for me. I did not know what beta was before I read this blog, I thought some people just fuck less because they don’t like pussy enough to make the moves. It is when I realized that there is a natural strategy that exists in women that does this to some men, and that it is upon a man to make the adjustment to his attitude to break out of the ranks. Anyway. I know game works. Natural or learned. And a beta can change his lot. He is capable of doing it. If he chooses not to? Well, well…

  21. @ Matt

    The real red pill is that a male who is below a 6 in looks can never be on the receiving end of continued, raw sexual desire.

    Spoken like a true mangina. Now go sip your girlie wine and slip on your skinny jeans and go drive in your Prius to your yoga class.

  22. @ Matt

    the easymode your handsome friend has with ladies is not because he is better at game.

    lolz Handsome dudes with no Game go home to wank while ugly farts with Game get laid.

    Looks matter when the girl initiates–not when the man initiates.

    Go approach.

  23. I shift easily and fluidly between alpha and beta in my dealings with other men depending on relative expertise, experience, social comfort in a given setting, and desired outcome, even swapping roles with the same men depending on the situation. There is no point in trying to out alpha a CEO who is a potential client, but once engaged you must be alpha with regard to the subject of the engagement. But I am always, always, always alpha in my dealings with women.c

  24. Rollo:
    “They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in.”

    Indeed. It often takes trauma or some sort of rock bottom experience to awaken. It’s often not pretty and incredibly painful. If a beta is self-aware enough and has the motivation they can just read a book or The Rational Male and poof, realize what their situation is and turn Red Pill. Yeah right, maybe for some….

    I’m a slow learner when it comes to relationships and gender dynamics. Had I not hit rock bottom and felt the pain I doubt I ever would have sought out this website. Had Rollo been a jerk about his message and not shown compassion I probably would have walked. Or at the least begrudgingly kept reading but resented the attitude. Commenters on this site have largely followed Rollo’s lead and encourage men who are confused, weak, lost or depressed. Sometimes all those elements combined. The compassion and genuine desire on their part to help others, me included has, been a huge difference in how fast I’ve made changes for myself.

    Still being quite new to this place, one of my first observations in reading here was that there was a lot of genuine interest for the veterans to help others. To mentor, counsel, encourage and give sometimes not so gentle plates of cold truth. SJF…..you’re such a prick, love you though. Lol. They have earned enormous respect from me, yet I’ve never met them or got to shake their hand.

    Recently when I was feeling like a piece of shit I asked Rollo to email me. He did so with a one sentence response: “How can I help?”

    There was no pontificating of quit wallowing, buck up, don’t be a douche, go learn game. One short sentence that mirrored what I had been reading here.

    “How can I help?”

    Without seeming too soft and touchy feely, that care and compassion means a lot. When you’ve hit rock bottom and are allowing women, your kids or anybody to a walk all over you the last thing you need is to be kicked. Thrown into a cold shower maybe, but not kicked. Confusion and angst driven frustration don’t often lead to rational thought, it’s a fucking hampster wheel sometimes. I feel like “How can I help” was a hand reaching out to help lift me up. Not a hand to hold, but a firm enough grasp that says “hey brother, you need a lift?”

    Now that I’m beginning to grasp some of this and gaining self-respect from learning from TRM and the red pill it would be disrespectful to fall backwards and revert to beta. Disrespectful to myself and the others who have spent their valuable time writing here and offering counsel. That time is valuable, don’t waste yours and don’t waste Rollo’s by reverting to beta. If you’re new like me you might still be feeling the raw mental and emotional wounds. It gets better, it truly can. Motivation is so important, that comes from within. I find INSPIRATION here everyday. All caps baby, fucking a right, true INSPIRATION.

    That why this posted this morning, because of what Cheupez wrote:

    “It is not easy not to hate the beta, if that beta is rejecting Red Pill truth. If he is rejecting Red Pill truth I would say like it says somewhere on some previous post; read them the last rites. Fuk him. It is sad how a man can knowingly embrace servitude. Why should he do that to himself?”

    Every man comes here for his own reasons. Some because they can’t get laid others because of a shitty divorce etc…me, I could barely look in the mirror. Whatever the reasons we are here. What makes this such a powerful community is more than the vibrant intellect (which is stellar), it’s the compassion to help others improve, to become better men. The Rational Male makes the world a better place from the bottom up, one man at a time.

  25. @IliadsTangent
    “Two, men who realize there’s something wrong with this picture and come to understand that theyve been lied to all their lives by everyone they care about. If one thinks of being laid off at work out of the blue as a stressful betrayal, imagine what it feels like to realize every single relative you have -male and Female-has lied to you about What Women Really Want. Worse -and this will vary depending on the man and his life stage- he may also realize in the same instant he has devoted his life to the false religion of pedistalizing women.”

    That was my up bringing.

    @Sun Wukong
    “I’m not entirely sure who’s in the mirror anymore, honestly.”
    Small steps sun. Find some goals you can work on everyday.

    @cheupez
    “It is sad how a man can knowingly embrace servitude. Why should he do that to himself?”
    My farther has done this. However I see know ways for me to change it from happening to myself.

    @Tom Arrow
    “All good initiations begin with a real fear of death.”
    True

    @TheLastCoyote
    “How alpha are you really if no one wants to follow you, no one wants to be around you, and no one ever feels better after having been around you?”
    Good point to think about. Making people feel comfortable has been hard for me because I’m not comfortable with myself. However not judging them is something I’m still working at. Being able to call them by their true name is one thing I’ve been good at.

    No one wanting to be around me is not something I haven’t though about. I never built a personality for that to really occur.

    How insightful nonetheless.

  26. “Rollo has great facial bone structure . . .”

    If Seth Rogan had perfect bone structure, how would you know?

    And bone structure has nothing to do with that perpetual “I’m a dweeb, just punch me” look on his face.

  27. Another excellent article Rollo. As far as “Hating The Beta”, at times it is tough when you see them, young or old (and the older generation as some of the biggest betas), still spouting from the FI handbook, or the old school beta blue pill ideals of “happy wife, happy life”. That said, I try to help as many as I can, to me I feel it’s my duty to fellow men. Remember, we were ALL that guy at one time, to various degrees. The only reason we turned red pills is because everything we were doing failed (divorce, bad break up, dating cold streaks,betrayal, etc.) so we questioned what we were doing, and looked for men who had similar situations in regards to women to “connect the dots”. As Rollo has stated many times, “when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.”. I try not to go on “rants” and always speak in “Red Pill Lessons” when talking to betas, the message is easily lost due to their emotional investments. Instead I use more real life examples of either what I went through, or what we see in the media,or what they have been through personally. But I also agree that sometimes a beta almost needs a “shock and awe” moment that is near traumatic, or an incident that really shakes them at their core, for a beta to swallow the red pill. I can only say that a blog like Rollo’s was something almost priceless to me, and still is very much today. Given what I went through in my personal life, if I did not stumble onto this in my former blue pill mindset, who knows how my life would have ended up. To me, there was no better feeling than “connecting” my own personal “dots” to other men’s experiences, it felt like I wasn’t “alone”. At that point, I became a sponge, and even if I wanted to fight the red pill truths, I could not “un-see” what I was experiencing. At first there was resentment, anger, (5 stages of grief is the best example) but eventually you just come to accept what things are, and adapt/change given what you’ve learned to be true and use it to your benefit.

    Thank you Rollo and to everyone who reads/comments for this blog.

  28. @Sun, if you’ve ever gone to college, you will know that you reach a point where your home back home is no longer your home, but your new college home isn’t quite home either. It’s a weird time, but it passes, so as another commenter said, do epic stuff for you while you are playing the game until the Red Pill is fully your new home.

  29. To me, it seems like Beta Hating is more of a female thing. On one level, subconsciously, because women come with a built in seek-and-destroy male weakness feature. Similarly, because they are coming up short in their burden to perform, at least compared to an alpha.

    On a subconscious level though, I feel like women are more likely to hate Betas because their powerlessness renders the woman powerless too in a way.

    Strong masculinity can exist on it’s own to an extent, and femininity can too (for a while), but since femininity is about receiving and adorning, a woman will probably only ever be as soft and feminine as the men around her are strong and masculine. To be mostly helpless, especially if you’re not consciously aware of the reason, as you lose your potential and your true self can be enraging.

  30. Heh, Leelee.

    Even worse, women don’t hate Betas, they are indifferent to them. Worse than being hated, Betas are invisible as potential mates.

  31. @Tom Arrow
    “All good initiations begin with a real fear of death.”

    Yeah. And a lot of bad initiations also.

    Best described by Ernest Becker in “Denial of Death”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death

    “When someone is experiencing depression, their causa sui (or heroism project) is failing, and they are being consistently reminded of their mortality and insignificance as a result.”

  32. @IAS
    November 16th, 2015 at 4:37 am

    Pretty much why it is important to have good congruent men who are good at being men as your core group of friends. Guys that can tell you honestly what you should do when you need to be told what to do. Guys that care about you and your circumstances. Don’t neglect pursuing these males as friends.

  33. I don’t hate the Beta, and I actually think most people in the redpill community are guy who aren’t good with girls. They are not naturals, and that’s why they seek the content. What you see is self-hate.

    But another point – if we take all the theory completely at face value for a moment, doesn’t society exactly need those overproducing bees that are termed beta. If every man shifted towards a redpill game frame – we still got understandable lowering desire in marriages and so I conclude that will all the cooler men, the standard for women would simply rise more.

  34. I think the only beta that red pill men hate are either the one they buried or the one they still carry around inside themselves. If another beta pisses off a red pill guy, it’s probably because he was exactly that kind of beta before he took the red pill. Is that reflection or projection?

  35. Deathbysnusnu

    Their radar in today,s society may be defective (or not). But their impulses are still driven by evolutionary brain development and hormonal influences so as to be manifested in their actions. They are going to act as they are going to act. Get used to it. To ignore these real and everyday impulses and read, study and learn them is like not have an operators manual and just winging your way through life.

    Women, femininity and their potential as mates can be a life force of positive input into a male’s life if you can utilize them as such. They can be complementary to a man.

    Your advice to stop buying their bullshit is opting to not play the game well. The game will go on whether you like it or not.

  36. Its easy to say you don’t hate a coward,, but in a harsh world(which we are often far from) there is nothing lower than a coward. A man who will abandon the tribe just before the fight in the darkest hour. Is that who you want your son to be or who to surround yourself in your business or social world?
    I remember reading about a friend of the familty telling eliot rodgers ”
    I pointed out that he had the choice to change his circumstances, and if he didn’t make the effort then he had to take some of the blame. He insisted that, “I have to blame someone for my troubles, and I don’t blame myself.”
    The primary failing of the beta male isn’t of lack of knowledge, its lack of nerve. If he had the nerve he would develop the knowledge himself.

  37. @SJF: I have a few good friends from high school and university, but sadly due to careers and frequently moving they are not close geographically.

    Furthermore, even though they were more naturally Red Pill than me due to early formative experience with females (most of them have had some “heart break” situation when they were younger), it seems that even with only one month of genuine Red Pill (and being open minded to learn from it) I already know more than they do.

    Since learning about this stuff I tested their awareness, describing in non-jargon terms concepts like AWALT and checking what they thought about it without coming out myself as Red Pill.
    They generally agree with Red Pill on some basics (e.g. one of them very clearly knew that it is mostly useless to try to have a rational argument with the wife), but they seem to be lacking in understanding.

    I trust them to give me what they think is good advice, but they are probably still too Blue or Purple Pill to give actual good advice consistently.

    Trying to unplug them is risky, it is conceivable they could even tell my wife about it (out of genuine, even though misguided, concern for me).

  38. As far as the guy in the picture those, I knew/know I had that burden of performance. I cleaned myself up, started working out, got a good hairstyle, clothes sense. Been doing that for 20+ years. Never slacked off in the marriage either. Social stuff was more of a challenge, but I made some progress there as well. Never blamed anyone else if I couldn’t pull more women.

    Now the ex did not work out and was overweight as a result. She resented the fact that I worked out. She had one interest and left me for a guy that I suppose outdid me in that one area. For all of my many interests she stopped trying, never tried in the first place, had complaints, etc.

    That is the way of men. A woman who has interest in anything that overlaps with men can always find a partner with the common interest. Men have a lot harder time getting a woman who shares their interests.

    At some point the amount of Game necessary to keep a marriage together becomes ludicrous. Even 4s and 5s, fatties, whatever, can leave and find another man should they choose to do so. All the woman has to bring to a relationship is her vag and they all know it.

    My ex was unmarriageable, but she conned me, and she would have found someone else if I hadn’t been there.

    Men’s work needs to be in service to a masculine imperative. By definition nothing can be built in service to FI. Applying game in a FI world is throwing a lot of resources down a bottomless pit.

  39. “Trying to unplug them is risky, it is conceivable they could even tell my wife about it (out of genuine, even though misguided, concern for me).”

    Keep searching. But be discreet and non-judging with friends and be without an agenda. A difficult part of Red Pill Awareness is not talking about it unless you come across a good mentor. Then it is wonderful and you can let the questions fly.

    Don’t fear your wife learning about your knowledge (and never volunteer your awareness to her) you can always deny it’s implied negatives. And deny you know anything. Merely state “What?, you don’t want me to be better man/mate for you?” It is a Beta Tell if she answers in the negative.

    But always say less than is necessary. (“When you are trying to impress people with words, the more you say, the more common you appear, and the less in control. Even if you are saying something banal, it will seem original if you make it vague, open-ended, and sphinxlike. Powerful people impress and intimidate by saying less. The more you say, the more likely you are to say something foolish.”)

    Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

    Morpheus: No, Neo. I’m trying to tell you that when you’re ready, you won’t have to.

  40. @Striver

    Part of the picture is that most men are genuinely unaware of just how many options women have today.

    I remember a former college plate recounting a personal event. She was a TA for a science course most students needed for basic prerequisites , and she frequently had student athletes in her classes. So she wound up being a 21 year old female with direct power over athletic Alpha males.

    Given that , one of them offered to marry her on the spot after class.The deal was shed pass his coursework , and he’d marry her immediately with the commitment he’d stay with her “when” he went pro.

    The likelihood he’d get there was rather remote given the status of the colleges athletic roster-which is why she turned down the offer and later married someone else- but that’s a standing example of what your typical modern female has in terms of options. Ancillary to that ,I read an account of a female author from the East Coast who was propositioned by an attorney in a Connecticutt Starbucks in a similar manner. He offered to buy her a house and marriage in exchange for her company. I wish I could say that was overblown literary hyperbole, but I’ve seen a man in my social circle do the Midwestern version of the same exact line.

    While game is a necessary component of any modern man, like anything else it has limits. Modern females have so many options for males that it’s , IMO, preposterous to believe in female fidelity going forward. Theres always a man out there with bigger muscles, better cars, and either stronger frame or mangina tendencies. Either dude could poach “your girl” at any time if you’re in an LTR/marriage situation. Understand –while being Beta is unattractive in a primal sense, money can make up for that in enough quantity. To use a Tomassi example with the tragic case of his brother in laws suicide, the man his wife left him for probably isnt your classic Alpha badass. (Open to correction if this is not the case).
    He did own a multi-million dollar business and her husband didn’t. Execute Hypergamy program “BranchSwing” . Just because we live in an era of Betas does not mean your LTR/wife won’t accept a bid from one if he’s paid enough.

  41. The fact that there is such a rivalry between so called Alphas and Betas shows how weak masculinity has become in the face of FI. The FI is so strong that forces men to “specialize” on one side of Hypergamy or the other. The Fi has come to a point that doesn’t expect a man to be both sides of AF/BB, it forces men to chose one of or the other the FI can switch between the two and get the best of what Hypergamy demands. Men who obsess with Notch counts are just as much of an utility to the western woman, as the faithful beta is.

    I have no problem with Alphas(red pill aware and truly Alpha) being harsh on Betas, because that helps men be/become man. I consider it more like sparring between men, to prepare each other for when the time comes when their masculinity and their burden of performance will be tested.

    The problem is when society doesn’t respect the other side of the deal. At the least the deal that betas think still exists. When society doesn’t supply the resources for betas to become Men.

    Here’s an example of an Alpha sparring with a Beta in regard to being a self sufficient/self reliant man.

    Episode from “What would you do”

    The homeless man in the eye of the Alpha failed to being a man, but didn’t fail to be a human. This is the type of social dynamics I’d like to see more between men.

  42. I’ve made huge strides in getting my balls back and becoming more alpha. But I do have relapses and I brood over them—which is another beta trait.

    If people talk about, or make personal attacks…it bothers me. I’m better and have begun to condition myself to be less emotional and more clear-headed in my reactions. Over-reaction, being too confrontational are beta tells.

    I was at an event that I helped organize for a friend. The hosts were praising me in front of the group some of whom were not always friendly. Rather than enjoying the moment I was getting uncomfortable with the attention which I felt was undeserved—another beta/co-dependent trait. I had to consciously stop that line of thinking.

    So beta and alpha are mindsets. If you believe you’ll never do better, you won’t=beta. If you don’t learn from your mistakes, if you “hope” things will get better without taking action…beta.

    I think calibration and balance of responses is also a challenge in adopting the Red Pill.

    It’s like I had to go back through my entire life and unlearn behaviours and beliefs about people especially women in order to get comfortable.

  43. @ITTO
    “I think the only beta that red pill men hate are either the one they buried or the one they still carry around inside themselves.”

    This is spot on. Seeing the beta in action, running beta game, spouting is BP truths is what we hate. Watching them run beta game, spouting BP truths can be nauseating because they can’t/won’t accept the truth about the real world. Seeing them reminds us of the ignorant blissful misery we once operated under.

  44. Logic and rationality present an interesting dilemma for Beta men. For the most part every Beta I’ve ever had to personally deal with has been a very practical, logical thinker in damn near every aspect of their lives.

    STEM field, check.
    Atheist/Agnostic, check.
    Raised by an over-driven mother and a practical, but reserved father, check.

    These guys are some of the most realistically deductive men you’ll ever meet until you attempt to apply that same rationality to their intersexual lives. That’s when you’ll see them hostilely defend their conditioned Beta mindset, or they retreat to defeatism and resign themselves to their sexless fates.

    For all of the practical sense Red Pill awareness is based on and operates around, these otherwise empirical Betas will fall back on the same deduction – based on what they’ve learned from the girls and women in their lives – to reinforce their failing Beta condition.

    I have no doubt that Eliot Rodger was given more than one opportunity to unplug himself; in fact, in a way he had. He simply chose to remain in that hopeless state of defeatism and became enraged when all the formulas he internalized never worked for him. Thus it was PUA Hate and a rebellion against who he saw as oppressors – Alpha men and any woman who would duplicitously reject him for them.

    Yes, I understand the guy had mental issues, but the mental schema plays out similarly for other Beta men. I don’t hate the Beta; I do hate the behavior, I do hate the conditioning that led him to his state, I do hate the reinforcement he gets from other Betas who’ve become Red Pill aware but insist on being the crab in the barrel who drags another back into it.

  45. I hate that “What would you do” show. Almost always, the only one acting like a prick is the paid actor.

  46. I think that there are two big mistakes men make when trying to wade through the “Red Pill” philosophy.

    1. They think in very binary terms. You are either an Alpha, a Beta, a Gamma, a Delta, etc. It is more true that there is a continuum, and the archetypes don’t accurately define any man sufficiently. That doesn’t mean that they definitions are false, or that they have no value.

    While I think it is certainly true that men have “natural” inclinations, it is also true that the categories define behavior as much as natural inclinations. An introvert may be naturally shy, but can teach himself to be more social to advance his career. So, pidgeon holing yourself in one or another category is a huge mistake. While your “natural” inclinations help define who you are, they are not determinative. You have a say-so in how you use the knowledge.

    2. They think that if you are a Natural in one category, it excludes you from the other categories. I don’t believe this is true. For example, I think that in our current environment, it is VERY likely that many “natural” Alphas behave like Betas or other categories because they’ve learned it is expected of them through social conditioning, and they come to expect it of themselves. So, for the “natural” Beta to assume that a “natural” Alpha never has issue with women is a false assumption. If a “natural” Alpha behaves like a Beta due to outside expectations, or if he has internalized the FI teaching, then he can have just as many issues with women as the “natural” Beta. Conversely, a “natural” Beta can have more success with women if he learns to act in an appropriate manner.

    Conclusion: Ultimately, learning the truth should help you – if you are willing to take responsibility for the truth. And THAT is the key factor. Bemoaning the fact that you were born a “natural” Beta is as worthless as an introvert crying foul at the world for it being harder for him to be comfortable in social settings. The real issue is WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

    For my own part, I can honestly say that in the continuum of things, I lean toward being a natural Alpha. Throughout my life, I have been thrust into leadership positions in nearly every environment because other people just assume that I will lead them. And since women (as I have learned from reading about Hypergamy) like to go for the top dog, I have always had a fairly easy time getting female attention. This is why, as a young man, I always had my pick of the prettiest women – which honestly puzzled me for years.

    BUT, I behaved like a Beta many, many times due to societal expectations. It was always a struggle for me to hold back so I wouldn’t be accused of arrogance. But my dominant self always fights for air, and eventually wins out. That hasn’t always been a good thing – especially in a professional environment. I typically rise to the top of an organization really quickly, and others who have labored for years without advancement resent me for it. So, being a “natural” Alpha is not all it’s cracked up to be – especially when you are constantly being told to hold in it check.

    But getting back to what Rollo is saying in this article, the #1 thing that you MUST do to have success with women is approach, approach, approach. Life favors the Bold, and the reason I experience so much favor in my life is because of my boldness. While I’m certainly not ugly, I’m only moderately attractive.

    So, the decision rests with you. Will you get out of your comfort zone, and start approaching women? You don’t even have to want a relationship with them. Just practice talking to them. Say something to the woman in front of you in the Supermarket counter. Don’t worry about what she thinks, just open your mouth and engage her. If you bomb, so what? You’ll learn something that doesn’t work, or at least didn’t work this once. Keep trying. Keep learning. Keep developing.

    Yes, it is easier for some of us. But so what? I don’t let the fact that I’m not Michael Jordan keep me from enjoying playing the game of basketball, and you shouldn’t let the fact that you are not as naturally gifted as some other men keep you from enjoying women. And you should learn to ENJOY women, not condemn them for who they are. They were born women, and like all human beings will naturally seek to organize society and social conventions to their benefit. That they often make short term decisions that negatively affect them long-term is just a characteristic of their nature. IT’S WHY THEY NEED MEN.

    So, instead of seeing it negatively, look at it as a way to boost your own value in your own mind. Those women NEED us to help them overcome their failings. So, have a little confidence in your own value, because you ARE valuable. Believe it. Internalize it. And if a woman doesn’t take advantage of the strength you bring to the table, move on and find someone who will. There are plenty of women out there.

  47. @Rollo: many men in STEM fields (or similar) are particularly primed to be outright exploited as beta bucks. Some relatively wise women are even extremely overt about that and probably marry a STEM-man pre-wall (whereas some of the more egregious post-wall ones with unrealistic high expectations would still complain that STEM-men can’t carry conversations, like in that recent articles about women with degrees refusing to “date down”).

    I’m convinced that the few “rational males” that can swallow the Red Pill, can use their intelligence and experience with the scientific method to quickly reach Red Pill knowledge on par or surpassing that of most natural alphas (hopefully while improving, even if slowly, at lifting).

    Having more of these in the Red Pill community would be very good for advancing our knowledge. A good example of this may be the contributions from BluePillProfessor (although I think he isn’t strictly in STEM).

  48. Beta hate does seem to be a Manosphere problem. It’s of little utility to the recovering beta himself to expose himself to more scorn and ridicule. It’s very hard to change something about yourself that you haven’t first accepted; what you resist – persists – and all that.

    I hear a lot of talk about guys trying to ‘kill their inner beta’ etc and it smacks of anger directed inwardly and self-violence. It would be a tremendous feat of the character to transform oneself into alpha by sheer willpower. Ricky Raw does a very good analysis of how codependent PUAs can crash their self-esteem even further.

    http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-1/

    Betas seem to me to be individuals with a combination of a) poor role modelling b) attachment trauma c) introversion d) lack of early sexual success.and many more. All of that is certainly forgivable, since how much of that occurs from a very young age?

    But I agree with Rollo that what is not forgivable (and perhaps even worthy of contempt) is once armed with the information, either doing little to improve their situation or willfully ignoring staying plugged-in despite overwhelming evidence. That is a lack of moral intelligence, and unmanly.

  49. @bnon

    “I don’t hate the Beta, and I actually think most people in the redpill community are guy who aren’t good with girls. They are not naturals, and that’s why they seek the content. What you see is self-hate.”

    Bro, the self hate part comes off almost as if it is a shaming of sorts.

    If it is self hate, me thinks it is the best medicine. It is probably the fastest cure to beta pussiness and a shortcut to alphadom; if there is such a word, or whatever. A beta needs it to get out like fucking NOW. If it is not coming from inside him, let it come from some unplugged “redpill community” beta like me who “is not good with girls.” (Heheheeee…that’s a fucking lie by the way…I get laid good…I even have had a whole blog just to brag about it. I scrapped it though.)

    But what I am saying is that let the self hate FLOW liberally. Let it flow from all the orifices of every fucking beta man. Let it flow. Let him exclaim softly under his breath as he bends down over the barbell before a deadlift, “Lift this damn thing you fucking pussy wuss, MAGGOT!”

    Hehehe….

  50. I feel like I’m in the middle between the two.

    Still battling some inner blue pill beta schemas, but letting my true self shine in other areas.

    Social interactions, some game, lifting, controlling my life and frame, never supplicating, never apologizing, raising my kids, wealth, etc.

    But part of me is stuck big time. Not sure how to break out of it. Its the idealized love/attraction script that holds me back. I understand it, I just don’t like it, and feel like I can’t compete in the smp. (Raw attraction and arousal)

    But then the wife is dripping down her leg for me, and orgasms twice from PIV.

    Very confusing and frustrating place to be. The cure I think is massive action and breaking out of homeostasis anywhere in my life, but especially where my insecurities and confusion are concerned.

    And I don’t hare betas. I only hare guys that get more chicks than me, are taller than me, or better looking than me. Lol

  51. Hate, not hare…Wtf, phone!

    One thing is, sex is better post red pill.

    I would of never pounded her so fucking hard that she actually experienced pain, and understood that she liked it, before the red pill.

  52. @leeleeinbabylon
    “To be mostly helpless, especially if you’re not consciously aware of the reason, as you lose your potential and your true self can be enraging.”

    @Is this thing on?
    “I think the only beta that red pill men hate are either the one they buried or the one they still carry around inside themselves.”

    From my point of view on myself that’s spot on.

    @SJF
    “The game will go on whether you like it or not.”
    Well stated (Every moment of my denial didn’t help me get better.)

    “Powerful people impress and intimidate by saying less.”

    True

    @bo Jangles
    “The primary failing of the beta male isn’t of lack of knowledge, its lack of nerve. If he had the nerve he would develop the knowledge himself.”

    I’ve been more responsible with myself since I’ve learned about my mental anguish from Rollo than any other time in my whole life.

    I’m responsible

    @Striver
    “Men’s work needs to be in service to a masculine imperative.”
    Thank you Brother Striver

    @walawala
    ” If you don’t learn from your mistakes, if you “hope” things will get better without taking action…beta.

    I think calibration and balance of responses is also a challenge in adopting the Red Pill.

    It’s like I had to go back through my entire life and unlearn behaviours and beliefs about people especially women in order to get comfortable.”

    Holy hell…!!!
    Fuck that’s hard yet immensely potent once applied.

    @Scott6584
    “You’ll learn something that doesn’t work, or at least didn’t work this once. Keep trying. Keep learning. Keep developing.”

    Fuck yeah

    @D’Archimbaud
    “Betas seem to me to be individuals with a combination of a) poor role modelling b) attachment trauma c) introversion d) lack of early sexual success.and many more. All of that is certainly forgivable, since how much of that occurs from a very young age?”

    All true yet mindset and hardworking self improvement never cease to amaze me.

    @cheupez
    “Let him exclaim softly under his breath as he bends down over the barbell before a deadlift, “Lift this damn thing you fucking pussy wuss, MAGGOT!”
    On it.

    @Caveclown
    “Very confusing and frustrating place to be. The cure I think is massive action and breaking out of homeostasis anywhere in my life, but especially where my insecurities and confusion are concerned.”

    Do all the things that scare the fuck out of you. Than learn to manage why it did in the first place.

    @The Lone Planet
    “Society is nothing more than an overgrown high school.”

    Play ball…

  53. If you are reading this and other manosphere blogs I have news for you………. If you are commenting on this and other manosphere blogs I have news for you…….

    As a RP Beta with Alpha characteristics I can only imagine all the Betas reading and commenting on here that loathe the characteristics they have that make them Beta, but want to be Alpha or write Alpha like comments.

    The dichotomy of A/B is too wide. Again do not Loathe the Beta as he is you and you are he. Accept it, be RP aware and hold your frame. You will get more than enough ass doing that instead of walking around with a Mark Wahlberg limp and a scowell on your face.

    I know ex-Spec Ops guys who are Beta. I know skinny jean wearing fag look-a-likes who are Alpha.

    Roosh et. al. are not Alphas. They are Beta/Gammas who figured it out.

    An Alpha isn’t going to, nor does he care or have time to teach others what Rollo has taught 10s of thousands of us. The movies you watch where some schlub teaches some dork to be cool is fiction.

    Some Alphas will mentor youth when they are on probation or not trying to keep up with their bills.

    Think deeper into the dichotomy. Alphas with Beta characteristics and vv.

  54. Becoming RP aware does not make you Alpha. It makes you a more aware Beta or lower.

    I encourage every male to read these RP truths. Alphas live it, we have to learn it. If you have to learn to pick up women, you are not Alpha. If you are holding a steady job being promoted etc., you are not Alpha…

    Just because you think you are the most well versed dude on RP does not make you Alpha.

    Again, do not feel badly. Get to know the truths of RP and hold frame and you will be in the top % of men.

    Look at our society. I tell my teenage boy that all he has to do is learn to love work, work hard and play hard and he will be far better a head of those his age as he gets older. Most young men and teenagers with the other porn and grown men for that matter do the minimum they can in EVERYTHING.

    As the # of gammas and omegas go up, being a RP beta will have you in the ranks of Alphas. That does not mean settle for sloppy seconds, what it means is you can have a very nice looking woman by your side if and when you want.

  55. @matt

    “As for betas, in many cases it’s best to let them live in ignorant bliss since most will not have the capacity to make use of redpill knowledge past a certain point. It would only torture them. In many cases it can backfire – no good deed goes unpunished especially applies here.”

    after many attempts to share the RP and game insight with other men that i thought could benefit, I’ve given up because it’s totally a waste of time. sure at times i still throw them a link or two, but I’ve come to the realization that the old truism “you can bring a horse to water…” is valid. i came to discover RP after trying to resurrect my pre-martial PUA training and mindset after ending up divorced. thus, imho if you can’t find answers and solutions to your challenges, you’re gonna have a problem being the master of your own destiny.

    “The real red pill is that a male who is below a 6 in looks can never be on the receiving end of continued, raw sexual desire.”

    so very true. PUAs often talk about looks don’t matter when it comes to attraction, and from my experience that is partly true, a man who takes care of himself and cares about his looks knows that is an integral part of one’s game. I’ve known and seen chubby and unkept PUAs, but those guys are few and far between, and most importantly have a lower number of outcomes had they done a better job at their presentation. and btw, it gets much worse as you get older, i.e., younger women instantaneous react to you as if the first question that pops into their mind is “can i be seen in public with this guy?”

  56. The holy scriptures that state 35 is when you will be at prime attractiveness is somewhat foolish in my view. I know Rollo has a more nuanced view of the smv chart which I appreciate, yet many seem to gloss over some of that. The common idea is that your career will have taken off by then and you’ve “lifted heavy” and are “jacked” at last. However, unless that is accompanied by higher status of non-monetary means, you are just a better beta bucks. That is, of course, assuming you will eventually get married. If not, then there is no need to plan – just charge forward.

    It’s not a guarantee, it’s about men’s personal potential in comparison to women’s and women’s prerequisites at various phases of her maturity:

    https://therationalmale.com/2013/09/19/the-curse-of-potential/

    Hypergamy wants a pre-made Man. If you look at my now infamous comparative SMP curve, one thing you’ll notice is the peak SMV span between the sexes.

    Good looking, professionally accomplished, socially matured, has Game, confidence, status, decisive and Just Gets It when it comes to women. Look at any of the commonalities of terms you see in any ‘would like to meet’ portion of a woman’s online dating profile and you’ll begin to understand that hypergamy wants optimization and it wants it now. Because a woman’s capacity to attract her hypergamous ideal decays with every passing year, her urgency demands immediacy with a Man embodying as close to that ideal as possible in the now.

    Hypergamy takes a big risk in betting on a man’s future potential to become (or get close to being) her hypergamous ideal, so the preference leans toward seeking out the man who is more made than the next.

    The problem with this scenario as you might guess is that women’s SMV depreciates as men’s appreciates — or at least should appreciate. As I outlined above, the same hypergamy that constantly tests and doubts the fitness of a man in seeking its security also limits his potential to consistently satisfy it.

    Also:
    https://therationalmale.com/2014/10/13/validation-hunting-the-jenny-bahn-epiphany/

  57. I’ve made huge strides in getting my balls back and becoming more alpha. But I do have relapses and I brood over them—which is another beta trait.

    Very good point. Ruminating / brooding over past failures isn’t a good idea but it is easy to fall into for some men. There’s a better way, to be sure.

    What’s interesting is that many men have learned some physical skill or other at some point in their lives. Maybe it was karate, or tennis, golf, practical shooting, driving on ice, or something else. The way they learned that was practicing correctly and without ego involvement: execute the tennis backhand, or mount the shotgun, drive the golf ball, do the front kick, whatever. It’s a waste of time to try one execution and then agonize over “ohhhh, I totally biffed that” when it’s much easier and more useful to self-correct.

    Yet those same men will brood / ruminate over an interaction with a woman in a social situation, rather than just observe, correct, re-orient. Perhaps that is because the perceived stakes are higher, i.e. lurking one-itis?

  58. Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?

    Is this not fundamentally true of alphas as well?

    Is not Sheryl Sandberg’s advise to women to fuck the badboys and marry the betas the ultimate reveal that men are merely a means to the hypergamic ends of women’s sexual strategies over their lifetime, whether they are alpha or beta?

    If so, the focus should be on that and not a pissing match between alphas and betas, right?

  59. “An Alpha isn’t going to, nor does he care or have time to teach others what Rollo has taught 10s of thousands of us”

    Because the real alpha wouldn’t GAF, right? It takes an unplugged beta to bring one to realise Red Pill?

    “The dichotomy of A/B is too wide. Again do not Loathe the Beta as he is you and you are he. Accept it, be RP aware and hold your frame.”

    Ya. RP aware enough to kill the beta. Let the frame hold solid but if the picture in the frame is beta-come-missus-mi-serve-you-for-life…fuk it and the frame too. Take that frame to the toilet, make the you a woman will listen to and then frame and hold it. I am not sure being wishy washy dichotomy hybrid hermaphrodite pink pill (?purple pill) is an option if what I have read so far and seen so far is true. No mercy for the beta. Just kill the beta please.

    That he is part of you that I understand. But kill him.

  60. I think it is a big error to equate red pill to alpha and blue pill to beta. Likewise, I don’t think it is fair to say that all RP types are simply a more aware beta. Blue pill indoctrination can do a real number on the most alpha children. I know of a 7 year old first hand. Natural Alpha all the way, just like his dad. Unfortunately he is being raised by a rad-fem. Over the two years I have known him, I have seen him bury the alpha with all the energy he has because he wants mom to love him. He’s turning into a good little feminist.

    We simply have no idea how much alpha is in us until we take the red pill and reemerge. The harsher our blue-pill indoctrination, the longer it takes.

  61. @ periklees the bullshitter

    The real red pill is that a male who is below a 6 in looks can never be on the receiving end of continued, raw sexual desire.”

    …say all the mangina omegas who have never approached a woman without first receiving an IOI and likely rarely go clubbing.

    btw, it gets much worse as you get older, i.e., younger women instantaneous react to you as if the first question that pops into their mind is “can i be seen in public with this guy?”

    I’m probably one of the oldest men who comment here and this is pure, utter bullshit. I refer you to the 21 y.o. broad who grabbed my arm at the club and said, “Don’t I know you?” She wanted my attention and ran girls bullshit game on me for an hour or so as she was getting drunk.

    Then there was the HB9 friend who saw me as I was leaving and wanted to know why I was leaving.

    Then there was the 25 y.o. HB8 who chased me for several months and confronted Mrs. Gamer at the club.

    Pure. Utter. Bullshit.

  62. @Jeff: “Becoming RP aware does not make you Alpha. It makes you a more aware Beta or lower.”

    I wholly agree that being RP aware does not make you alpha, but it’s sounds like you’re subscribing to the “alpha is a demographic” belief.

    Alpha = frame. The degree of alpha is dependent on how well you’ve internalized your frame (& MPO) and your ability at executing & maintaining it in all circumstances.

    Becoming a RP aware man gives you the ultimate gift of ‘choice’… most men will go through their entire lives never having known that re-gaining their personal power was as easy as merely *choosing* to do so.

    What happens afterward is entirely up to you.

  63. Cheupez,

    I think you might be throwing a gamma under the bus when you think you are throwing a beta under the bus, as you turn around and get the tingles by some beta who has learned RP truths.

    A true Alpha is just that. He needs no friends, will burn bridges to get money or ass. He can’t hold a job long term. Divorced or left his live in girlfriend. Or divorced a couple of times. Moved from one state to another.

    A beta with Alpha characteristics was once thought of by many as a cool/stud guy who gets some ass, but is now older, stopped working on himself, gave up his hobbies, supplicates to his wife. He holds down a job and pays the bills. If this goes on too long, wifey hates him. When he gets his balls back or finds RP truths he re-emerges as a RP beta by default or consciously because he did unplug. An unplugged beta is still beta. By default I mean wifey left him or kicked him out and he started lifting again, wearing more stylish clothes, car etc.

    I can rattle of many things that if you didn’t know me, you would say alpha. See me with my wife and kids and community? Beta. Why? I choose to have one wife and be in a community that is fluid and works.

    Alpha will not conform. He wants society to conform to him and suffer solipsism just as badly as the XX chromosome.

    When hypergamy was held in check (which I think it will be again, there is nothing new under the sun, plus a reset will indeed happen in society) the Beta was who got things done. He is able to lead and follow.

    Alpha will not follow. Spec Ops guys are selected and tested. They know how to lead or follow. A Spec Ops guy who can follow will be taught how to lead or he will be dropped eventually. Same with a beta. Beta will learn RP truths and apply or get dropped. Alpha cannot bring himself to follow and it will be apparent early on.

    Gamma is that dork who has tons of “other porn”, cannot keep up enough to follow and cannot lead. Think of that sociopath in CA a couple of years ago. He was total gamma and couldn’t keep up and killed some people out of frustration. Beta wouldn’t do that.

    Vox will call it Delta. Not bad… I have seen the PUA on youtube. They look like dorks to me. Soft muscles, out fits I would tear off my own son… they look femmy.

    Again. If hypergamy was held in check and we could stamp down and shame them and the feminists, beta would reign. It is when the feces tests within hypergamy is aloud to run wild and feminists do not allow the beta to challenge hypergamy you will continue to get what you have. When I mean run wild, is women who ride the CC and then hit the wall etc.

  64. “..Most red pill men will get married, just as Rollo did, and they better have a more thought-out strategy than: become George Clooney.”

    Clooney ain’t got shit on me.

    Lmfao.

  65. Chump,

    Couldn’t have said it better. Yes, but if you read on here long enough you get the idea that it is a demographic and everyone on here is yelling “I’M AN ALPHA SEE!” like gamer there… look at how much I get hit on by HB20s. To me that screams I am beta who wants to be seen as alpha in a demographic way.

    I know 2 true alphas. One has been in and out of rehab, jail, exish wife supports him. Dude is a stud in some ways, but I would never want what he has. The other is 48 living in a basement apt. and cannot figure out why he is ending his 3rd marriage, can’t get promoted (he makes his managers look outstanding) and has no money even though he makes close to 100k.

    My uncle? Made millions $$$ successful kids, multiple homes. Fights with my aunt like no ones business. He played college football, was in a submarine during vietnam with wild stories…. Beta. Why? Because if he stuck to his guns he would be constantly firing and hiring employees even if he had gotten that far. Should I go on? No, no one wants to hear this beta dickheads comments any more than I want to read the WSJ.

  66. George Clooney….. Beta!!!!!

    Why? What kind of schlub pays anyone their hard earned money? Look at what he is doling out to ex wives…. Regardless of whether he divorced them or they divorced him. He is paying, ie he is beta

  67. I don’t know @asdgamer but I know he speaks true, @periklees. There’s an older fellow I see at a local pool club during the summer, 60-ish. pony tail, hippy beard, a wee bit tubby. And yet: he knows every woman, old, young, cute, HB10,whatevs, and they know him. Nothing special to look at but he tells lots of stories and has had many adventures. I call him The Most Interesting Man In The World, while he doesn’t look or sound like the beer ad guy he has the attitude. Go thou and do likewise.

  68. everyone on here is yelling “I’M AN ALPHA SEE!” like gamer there… look at how much I get hit on by HB20s.

    Illiterati gonna illiterate. Try again, Junior. 🙂

  69. “I may debate with other men’s takes on how the importance of looks plays in to a man’s overall Game and appeal…”

    I would be fascinated to know what form these arguments would take and what position you would take, as in my estimation attraction is primarily predicated on looks and roughly 90% based physical attraction and socio-economic status. The social aspect is more important to women when you’re younger and the economic status becomes more important as you get older.

    What you call ‘game’, and what I would call social skills, can make a small contribution to your attractiveness, but it is completely dwarfed by other more important factors. If you’re below average physical attractiveness, unless you can compensate with wealth then you will have an uphill battle to attract anyone decent.

  70. I’d like to know how many babes the oldest guy here has actually fucked, not merely gotten some attention from. Lot of tough talk in some of these comments, but I wonder what the count is for real action.

  71. “It’s a waste of time to try one execution and then agonize over “ohhhh, I totally biffed that” . . .”

    In fact, it’s a pedagogical error. We aren’t trying to fail, we’re trying to succeed. When, after a number of failed executions you get it right think “Ohhhh! That’s what I’m supposed to do. Do more of that.”

    If you are driving on ice and all of a sudden the car isn’t going where you want it to, look where you want it to go. Your behaviour will follow your attention, so if you look where you don’t want it to go . . .

  72. @Chris James – “…attraction is primarily predicated on looks and roughly 90% based physical attraction and socio-economic status. The social aspect is more important to women when you’re younger and the economic status becomes more important as you get older.”

    Looks are not the driver, nor is socioeconomic status.

    Both assist with the sale process but neither are the determiners of closing the deal.

    What closes the deal is the power of the spirit and the ability to display it and direct it with charisma. That’s part of where the power of the alpha comes from. It comes from his spirit, which does not accept a lesser beta role.

    It’s not about being an asshole, a rich asshole, or a well employed asshole. It’s about having innate, inherent value (which can be developed) and the ability to enthrall others long enough for them to recognize that value and involuntarily embrace it.

    It isn’t about false or transient appearances. It is about authenticity.

    Regards,

    Ivan
    http://www.darktriadan.com

  73. What you call ‘game’, and what I would call social skills, can make a small contribution to your attractiveness, but it is completely dwarfed by other more important factors. If you’re below average physical attractiveness, unless you can compensate with wealth then you will have an uphill battle to attract anyone decent.

    Allow me to introduce you to my esteemed colleague YaReally,…

  74. I will say that I cheat. Shave my head and wear a black cap. Dye my beard. Dress stylishly. Move like I’m in my 40s because I take supplements and lift and walk. And I have the ZFG attitude that people assume goes with a young man.

    Last Sat. night at a large club with 500 people in addition to the 21 y.o. HB6 and the HB9 I mentioned previously:

    1. I approached an HB8 who was with a date. No one else danced with her. Men were looking at her from all over.

    2. I opened a table of four military wives. It turned out that I knew one who is a sweetheart and fun and English; one was a hot Australian blonde who showed a lot of energy ™ when she was with me. I danced three dances with the Australian.

    3. I met a new waitress and touched her butt as part of my Broken Taillight Game ™ within a minute of meeting her. She chatted me up quite a lot and was very friendly.

    4. Ran my Out-of-focus Headlight Game on a 50ish HSE blonde I’ve known for about a year. Maybe HB7. Did it in front of a very cool, fun male friend of mine who was her date. Made her feel awkward. By design. She ran off. Not really pissed. Tingles. She shook my hand goodbye after I shook her date’s hand. She has flirted with me before.

    5. I opened a couple of HB7s as well and danced with them.

    Lots of evidence of ZFG which minimizes age issues very nicely.

  75. @ One

    I’d like to know how many babes the oldest guy here has actually fucked, not merely gotten some attention from. Lot of tough talk in some of these comments, but I wonder what the count is for real action.

    Why does that matter? The issue is whether young women worry about being seen publicly with older men. (NB: I’m married and any information about my carnal activity is classified.)

  76. ” I’d like to know how many babes the oldest guy here has actually fucked, not merely gotten some attention from. Lot of tough talk in some of these comments, but I wonder what the count is for real action.”

    Someone had a tall cold glass of haterade this afternoon.

    I don’t hate betas, but comments like this one and the ” Alpha guy I knew was an asshole/jobless drifter/living in basement..” make me raise an eyebrow and SMH.

    I don’t brag, it’s unbecoming, and I don’t collect notches so to speak, but a question asked out of curiosity without the tinge of assholery directed at us mature and ” seasoned ” men is deserving of response.

    This one however, is not.

  77. “Move like I’m in my 40s . . .”

    I wouldn’t worry about it. Keep working at it and you’ll get there. Have a look at Georges Hébert’s Natural Method. It’s the granddaddy of Parkour. Maybe add some gymnastics progressions to your routine.

  78. @JD –

    Curious to know what was the impetus to marry a second time and, if you don’t mind answering that, were you Red Pill aware before the second marriage or thereafter? Much appreciated.

  79. Can’t wait to see all you supposed alpha males dead and buried. You freaks are the majority of men’s worst enemy. Fortunately, most of you end up in prison or otherwise destroyed after reality comes crashing in on you. That or you end up being ISIS revolutionaries. FU alphas. Long live de-naived betas.

  80. ASD,

    It’s been my personal experience that younger women for the most part do not have an issue with a man’s age.

    Younger cats seem to really hate this. I kinda get it, but hate is such a useless thing.

    There’s about a 10% chance that a man in his 40’s-50’s will approach a 19-25 year old chick and get totally blown out with the ” eww…you’re older than my daddy ” vibe. I have found this fascinating myself.

    Guys don’t realize that standing at a distance and staring at chicks will not get them laid. Seems obvious…

    So when ” grandpa ” swoops in and snatches them away, the hate, like the darkside’ grows strong in them.

    They need to observe and LEARN.

  81. As a guy with a decent amount of money, both in assets and cash flow…

    Stop with the money gets you laid trope.

    Seriously.

    Money creates interest, sure. But only if you advertise the fact that ya got cash, which is a form of game in itself.

    Money by itself means very little with getting laid unless you literally just pay for pussy. (Not necessarily hookers)

    Money is a tool, no more.

    Most rich guys that get laid ALSO live pretty badass lives, but there are far more type A personality rich people that are not getting any.

  82. “…Can’t wait to see all you supposed alpha males dead and buried. You freaks are the majority of men’s worst enemy. Fortunately, most of you end up in prison or otherwise destroyed after reality comes crashing in on you. That or you end up being ISIS revolutionaries. FU alphas. Long live de-naived betas.”

    LaughOutLoud

  83. Allow me to introduce you to my esteemed colleague YaReally,…

    I don’t see why YaReally has to waste his time when these idiots show up. The idiot says game is just social skills.

  84. in my estimation attraction is primarily predicated on looks and roughly 90% based physical attraction and socio-economic status. The social aspect is more important to women when you’re younger and the economic status becomes more important as you get older.

    That’s why Bill Gates has such a hot wife, right? Because his ec-o-nom-ic status game is killer.

    This thread sure brought some men in need of learnin’ out of the woodwork.

  85. We talk a lot about how possible it is for beta to go alpha, if it’s worth the effort, if the end result is ‘real’ alpha, etc.

    The way I see it is, we’re all playing a great ruthless game as men. Always have been. It’s just the current prosperous circumstances and the FI have successfully blinded many men to that reality.

    We don’t put the message out there thinking that all men will or can be winners. We put it out there because, with the red pill, they at least know that they’re playing the game

    You can’t finish the race if you never start. You can’t compete if you’re asleep.

    Men are a strange blend of cooperative and competitive. You need both the fully experience a man’s life. Own it.

  86. Of the 40+ women in my sexual past, more than 30 of them I had sex with when I was at my poorest. Unless you’re banging a prostitute, it’s not money that gets you laid.

  87. @One

    You are confusing N-Count with Alpha. For example, my father was very Alpha, but he was also married with children. He maintained his frame throughout his life, and my mother talks about how great her sex life was with him (he died young.) He got laid often, even if it was with the same woman – because she never lost her attraction for him. He also got hit on by other women.

    My father got terminally ill when I was in High School, and we had many long conversations during my last 2 years of High School when we talked about his philosophy of life.

    While growing up, I was constantly challenging my father. I kissed my first girl in 1st grade, and found it very easy to talk to, and go out with girls. When I went off to college at the US MIlitary Academy, we had dances every Friday and Saturday night. One of the most satisfying things in my lifetime was shoving the fact that I could easily get women into the faces of the upper class cadets when I was a plebe. I invariably would greet the women as they came through the door (we called their arrival the “cattle call”), and would spend the night dancing with several of them, finishing off with the best looking one on my arm. I had a girl lay down on the gravel in 20 degree weather and beg me to fuck her.

    Later, I dated a Playboy model, and ended up married to a woman who other men voted one of the top 5 best looking women in a company where the local office had 500 women. She had Jessica Alba’s body and Jennifer Beals face and hair. I NEVER walked around jealous.

    BUT, I am also a product of my generation (Gen X), and grew up after the Sexual Revolution. The Feminist ethic was strong and I suffered from trying to tone down my Alpha tendencies to conform to society’s and the church’s definition of what it meant to be a good man. Hence, I adopted some Beta behaviors that didn’t do me any good in my marriage. That is why I say that a natural Alpha can “learn” to act like a Beta just as much as a Beta can learn to adopt Alpha characteristics.

    I was married 20 years, and in the first 3 years I was divorced, 4 different women asked me to marry them – ranging in age from 27 years old, 28 years old, 36 years old, and 41 years old. I was mid 40’s at the time, 260 lbs. red-headed, and shorter than 6′ tall. So, it certainly wasn’t my physical attractiveness. And then I decided to stop seeing women for a while because I didn’t like defining myself according to how women saw me, and frankly, I simply didn’t want to spend the effort to have relationships with women.

    I discovered the manosphere, and also discovered WHY I had such an easy time with women. I also discovered what I had done wrong in my marriage. Although I still don’t own what SHE did to destroy the marriage, I can see how I contributed to the downfall, and why it frustrated me that she would treat me better when I starting acting the opposite of what society and the church was telling me to do.

    I have reached the point where I am no longer angry or bitter and what happened. I’ve forgiven my ex-wife without excusing her behavior. Last time we got together was at my brother’s house for my younger daughter’s 21st birthday. While it was a very pleasant time, I never said a word to my exwife, not because I was mad, but simply because I didn’t have anything to say, and no longer care what she thinks of me.

    So, I’ve started dating again since June. I met a woman in Minnesota, and a week later we took a trip to Lake Superior and the Apostle Islands. A month after that, she was paying for my trip to Chicago to see the Cubs play at Wrigley field. Then we took a trip to Houston, and last month, after I had moved away from Minnesota, I went back and spent my 50th birthday with her. When I left, she offered to make me a “kept man” if I moved back, and cried that she was afraid she’d never see me again. She’s right. I was never interested in a long-term deal with her, and was just using her for practice to get back into the game.

    This next weekend, at age 50 and weighing right at 300 lbs., I have two dates – one on Friday night with a 53 year old teacher, and one on Saturday night with a 33 year old, hard-bodied woman who about flipped out with delight when I called her up after not seeing her for over two years, and asked her to be my date for a wedding I am attending. The 33 year old then started calling me back and wanted to talk for hours. She was one of the ones who asked me to marry her years ago, and still has a candle lit for me.

    So, N-count is not the issue. It is the attitude. One thing is true – True Alpha’s don’t hate women. They just know how to play with them. And women like men who both enjoy them, and know how to play with them. The constant push-pull teasing, and mild sexual innuendo drives them crazy. It’s like catnip, and if you learn how to do it, it’s a lot of fun. Yes, it comes naturally to me. I’ve literally been doing it since I was 6 years old (following the example set by my father). It was only when trying to conform to society and church standards that I got off track.

    I guess one of the biggest things is that I have an attitude of abundance. There are a lot of women out there, and if it doesn’t work with one, it’s not really a big deal. I don’t see it as my failure, because I don’t expect to click with all women. That doesn’t mean I’m not charming. But I disqualify a lot of women. Since being back in Texas the last two months, I’ve had dates with 5 different women, and clicked with all but one of them. That doesn’t mean I bedded them all, because frankly, even if I was able to get into the pants of 4 of them, I wasn’t interested. Like I said previously, I am accustomed to dating the higher SMV women, and am just not that turned on by middle of the pack women. But I still enjoy playing the game.

    Lastly, I honestly don’t know my N-count. I never thought it was a thing to keep track. I’ve never been interested in a 3-some, even though it’s been offered multiple times. I have some moral standards that I live by because I believe in them, and I’m not trying to impress other men with my seductive skills. I’ve been willing to cut off women when I choose, and turn on the charm when I choose. Frankly, if you bang every woman that wants to bang you, that’s just sad. It means you don’t get many offers. I live my life for my enjoyment, not to impress others. Pussy is not my main focus in life, and I can pass on the pussy without fear that I will never get another chance.

    Can you?

  88. @DarkTriadMale

    “What closes the deal is the power of the spirit and the ability to display it and direct it with charisma. That’s part of where the power of the alpha comes from. It comes from his spirit, which does not accept a lesser beta role.”

    I would agree that personality and charisma can ‘close the deal’. There will be no deal in the first place if there is no attraction in the first place, and in my estimation, as I said previously, this is predicated on 90% looks and socio-economic status. That is obviously an estimation because assessing attraction is extremely subjective.

    The extent to which looks, social status and economic status are keys to attraction will vary from woman to woman, but they will almost always remain of critical importance. You can say with almost total confidence that a guy with below average looks, or even average looks, working in McDonald’s in the lowest grade position, will have a hard time attracting women and it will get harder the older he gets and they get.

    I don’t see how anyone can possibly deny this.

  89. @Sun Wukong

    “I’m not entirely sure who’s in the mirror anymore, honestly.”

    Fuck mirrors, man. I use one for a quick ‘do I look like a dumbass’ check before I go out the door, not to inspect my skin for zits.

    Intelligence is useful. Introspection is an occupational hazard.

    btw, I left ya a long comment at the tail end of the Always Default to Game thread just in case you didn’t see it.

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