Don’t Hate the Beta

beta_hate

A common refrain I hear from even some well meaning Red Pill aware men is that there is some degree of disdain for the “Beta” man in the sphere. There’s not so much a rejection of apparent Red Pill truths as there is a schoolyard mentality when it comes to characterizing a guy as Alpha or Beta. This is where where a lot of guys turn themselves off to the Red Pill in a community sense.

In a way I suppose it becomes reminiscent of guys having been bullied in their formative years by the guys they now have a mental image of being archetypically “Alpha”. So it follows that concepts like AMOGing or running a ‘Boyfriend Destroyer’ script is distasteful; a lot of men, that is to say the 80%+ Beta men, have likely experienced this disqualification in direct or indirect ways in their youth. Sometimes that may simply be a girl he had his ONEitis sights set on opting for a more Alpha guy after telling him she wasn’t ready for a relationship, or it may be a more direct experience of having sand metaphorically kicked in his face.

Thus it becomes a matter of course to entirely dismiss the nuts & bolts understanding of how abstracts like Alpha and Beta are used in the sphere. The default understanding goes something like this, “Those Red Pillers just hate on Betas to build themselves up” or some other version of this where the Red Pill becomes a Machiavellian free for all at the expense of other, ‘lesser’, men.

It’s either this or the abstractions of Alpha and Beta are reduced to absurd binary interpretations; Alphas become ridiculous ‘douchebag’ parodies and Betas become pathetic, simpering doormats for the world to tread upon. In either case the purpose of reducing these abstracts as such is an effort in dismissing the uncomfortable, as well as evidently observable qualities and truths of the intersexual environment that plays out around us.

For the record I think it’s important for Red Pill men to remain as objective and disinvested from making qualitative assumptions about what constitutes the Alpha and Beta abstractions. I don’t hate, pity or resent Beta men. Neither do I embrace the idea that Alpha archetypes as necessarily positive or negative. For the moment however, I’m going to focus on Beta men.

The Presumption of Control

As I mentioned above, one of the primary dismissals men have when they encounter Red Pill thought is to blow it off because “it’s all just a bunch of hating on Betas.” And that presumption comes only if a guy is willing to consider the abstracts of Alpha and Beta in the first place – most simply don’t want to recognize specific ‘statuses’ or defining characteristics of men or women, and just fall back on the “all is relative, all is subjective” mindset they’ve been conditioned to. People are People, there is no human “nature” so there is no male or female “nature”.

But for the guy who at least accepts the idea of human natures, I can certainly understand the reservations of men whose identities were conditioned to a more Beta role. There’s not much positive to characterize a Beta mindset with beyond the utility that conditioning serves to society and women’s sexual strategy. Betas do in fact get laid; the terms on which, and how their sexuality fits their utilitarian role in women’s Hypergamous plan is the real question.

I was recently asked if I thought Beta men employing Beta Game was a successful strategy in the larger scheme of things. If success means that Beta Game will get him laid, I’m incredulous about it. The presumption is that the Beta man employing that ‘game’ is in some way directing and controlling the outcome of his ‘success’. I’d argue that what he believes is ‘game’ is simply his utility to a woman coming into an optimal window for her necessity of him. So is his ‘strategy’ really successful, or is he simply the best ‘Plan B‘ a woman has available to her while her own SMV decays to the point where he’s her best option?

Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?

I think a lot of what guys new to the manosphere perceive as Beta hate is simply the presumption of control they believe they should be able to exercise with women. After having been told for the the better part of their lives that the more accommodating and identifying with women they are will lead to them being accepted by women it’s a presumption that this is some means of socially acceptable control for them.

It’s very galling to have men place fault on a guy for things he knows are out of his control. I fully understand the angst and frustration that leads to things like Beta Uprising and men frustrated with intersexual dynamics taking it out on the whole of society before they swallow a bullet themselves.

It essentially amounts to victim blaming; Betas are hapless and hopeless mules brainwashed and indentured to serve not just the Feminine Imperative (which would be galling enough), but also to have the pains and strivings that society demands of them be rewarded with women’s genuine intimate interests focusing on Alpha men.

That sucks.

PUAs telling a guy it’s on him as to why women are boring to him, or uninterested in him sexually, only reinforces that angst. It’s like a pastor telling you that if you’d only prayed harder or more earnestly God would have cured your Mom of cancer. So they hate the Alpha, they hate the PUA, they hate the hotchickswithdouchebags guy, but they also hate women and the social/biological mechanics of the position they’re placed in. It presumes a control that he believes he’s never had, nor ever will.

So there comes a point where that Beta wants, sometimes adamantly insists, for his own burden of performance to be replaced, or at least handicapped, by a woman meeting him half way. This want is rooted in his Blue Pill presumption that people are people and in the equalist notion that women’s hindbrains can (willingly) be overridden when it comes to arousal, attraction and intersexual dynamics. Again, if there is no human nature it should stand to reason that a woman could potentially choose that Beta for all the reasons he’s been conditioned to believe she should choose him for. If there is a female nature, and that nature follows (with some degree of consistency) Red Pill aware truths, then his frustrations are founded on his own lack.

But these guys aren’t Blue Pill oblivious men, they are Red Pill aware. They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in. So when these guys are put into that place they have a few choices: Snap and take out themselves and as many others as they can, go isolationist MGTOW and retreat to minimal societal investment, go MRA and impotently try to enact legislation that they think will even the social playing filed from the top down, or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.

The Burden of Fault

Whether it’s fair or not, by virtue of being a man, you’re going to have to accept your burden of performance. That burden includes your liability of accepting fault even for things that aren’t your fault per se. It’s not your fault that you were born and raised into a feminine-primary social order that conditioned you to be an accommodating utility for it – but irrespective of that, you will be held liable for not complying with it or resisting it. You are a man, you will always be accountable.

Is that fucked up? Yes. So with that in mind it is up to you as a Red Pill aware Man to decide for yourself what is worth your investment. Yes my friend, women can be amazing, interesting vivacious and fun, but they can also be fucked up and stupid and absolutely not worth your time, money and effort. It isn’t your fault they are the way they are, but it is your fault for investing yourself in something you’re not enjoying or profiting by.

With all of the railing against women not being worthwhile one would think that would prompt these men to being indifferent to women – but they aren’t. Even the most ardent MGTOW and hapless Beta Red Pill denier still wants women; he simply wants her in his context and his frame on his terms – and to genuinely want to be a part of all that. There’s nothing wrong with this desire, this is precisely what I advise with regards to Frame control, but the disconnect comes in how men go about establishing a Frame women want to be a part of.

Get Out There

I may debate with other men’s takes on how the importance of looks plays in to a man’s overall Game and appeal, but one thing I won’t argue with is the importance of men putting themselves out there and into situations that will most certainly take them out of their comfort zones.

For almost 20 years I have made a living doing exactly this. I have worked in gaming, liquor and brand development ventures that have put me into venues that range from Goth/Alternative/Hipster sets to LGBT events, to mixing with men and women who have the type of wealth that most people don’t even know exists. My career, family and personal life has been my Red Pill classroom and laboratory for all this, and in all of these contexts I have found a way to enjoy myself and/or learn from these interactions.

One reason I will never look to writing Red Pill books as a career option is because it would remove me from the very source of my observations. Living it is the only way keep learning from it. On my own time, I would very likely prefer to lock myself in my studio and paint or sculpt, or to create something new to work into a brand, often to the exclusion of my wife and family and the many friends I have. I’m a very social guy, but I would probably not feel compelled to head off to a night club or any of the events I involve myself in professionally on a weekly basis.

When I’m doing a promo, I know I’m not going to hook up, so I find enjoyment in watching and learning from what I see going on around me. I can’t drink when I’m on a promo or doing a trade show, so even that can’t be a source enjoyment. So why fucking do it right? I make money at it, and it beats living in a cubicle, but I’d much rather be creating new things, new brands, new ideas than interacting with half-buzzed hipsters who think they’re too cool to be there or obnoxious 40 something divorcés ‘sampling’ vodka and hoping to drink their spinsterhood away.

I enjoy what I do and it helps me help other guys. I put myself out in the wild because it’s part of my job(s), but I honestly enjoy interacting with even the dullards and the drunks. It’s what I invest myself in. That may sound like torture to you, but it’s really contextual. I have friends I’ve made at underground Goth events who would blanch at the thought of what I do at a golf tournament. I’m not saying you need to be a social chameleon, but understand that your social education will always be domain dependent if you stay in the settings that make you the most comfortable.

Don’t Hate the Beta

As I mentioned earlier, I don’t hate Beta men. For a long time in my Blue Pill past I was one of them, and I can fully understand the want to mischaracterize an Alpha mindset in order to preserve a sense of self-worth. Beta men don’t warrant pity or disgust, but rather they need a tough harsh awakening to the reality of the situation they find themselves in.

I don’t think Beta men are hopeless, but they will remain in a state of hopelessness so long as they subscribe to a want of making things easier for their condition rather than improving themselves to better play the Game. That’s hard to hear for most Beta men and I understand the protective need for denial in this, but I know of very few Red Pill men who really despise Beta or Blue Pill men. They despise his indentured state, they despise his willful obliviousness to his conditioned uses. They despise the lengths to which Blue Pill men will go in their hope to be appreciated by the system that made them what they are.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

765 comments on “Don’t Hate the Beta

  1. @Rollo

    I read your post “Looks count” and your analysis on the saying “Looks aren’t as important for women”.
    What came to mind was the new trend “Dad bod”… do you think this trend is a collective reaction from women to attract average guys into settling with them after the fact that many men are going MGTOW or are just seeking the “no label” type relationships?

  2. What this post mostly reveals is the inadequacy of the alpha-beta dyad in describing human intersexual dynamics. Keep in mind that in the sciences, human sexual/social behavior is not described this way.

    The simplest way to see this is that women select alphas for short term mating and betas for longer term provisioning, but in reality, they also shift their strategies around and blend them at times. Pursuing “alphaness” is merely seeking to qualify for a woman’s short term mating selection. That’s all. Women select such men based on their attractiveness, which is in part signaled by social dominance but it also triggered by many other factors. Consider carefully what PUAs like YaReally try to get through to us here. These selection processes and criteria can be gamed so the entire lens of alpha/beta being some hard and fast thing is problematic from the outset.

    As for “hating betas”, this comes in to play in a much more broad way in our social environment. Men who are brave and tough and dominant are valued in many contexts in our society, not just sexually. Hating on “betas” really means shaming guys who are cowardly and soft, and I always will hate on such guys. They are getting negative feedback in the hopes that they will realize the error of their ways. This negative reinforcement is important in getting men to overcome their fears and develop confidence and dominance.

    As for hating alphas, that’s easy. Jealousy is always present. Betas wish they were selected for short term mating – it’s really just that simple. But they aren’t. They believe that’s “unfair”, lol.

    What we discuss here is adapting to the reality of our current social order. Being high value sexually and being dominant are important, but in a broader sense what we are actually doing here is becoming self-actualized. We are “spitting the bit out” of our FI informed social programming. Beta and Alpha alike – we are learning to become selfish and self-oriented and to place ourselves as our point of mental origin. Such a man will never be “beta” once he as adopted a selfish mindset. He may not get laid a lot because he may not be attractive and may not use tactics that get him laid properly, but he’s not beta. Becoming Red Pill aware and changing your behavior due to becoming your own point of mental origin is the result – but you still may not be selected for short term mating by women too often.

    @SunWu – Consider your case carefully. You thought there would be a reward from women due to becoming your own point of mental origin, but in fact, it hasn’t transpired. The reality is that you don’t get selected for short term mating and don’t trigger much attraction from women. Does that alone make you beta? Nah. It makes you incompetent socially, but it’s clear to me at this point that you are no Beta boy running around hoping some women selects you for her provisioning and laughs while you are out of the room. You don’t have women on a pedestal and accept the burden of performance, but still, not much pussy.

    My point? Being selected for short term mating by women is not all we seek as Red Pill aware men. For those who want to fuck a lot of women, they will also need to immerse themselves in Game deeply. And do the years of work it takes to become a skillful PUA. I think a lot of Red Pill guys think that their shift in MPO should make them a player with women but alone it will not do the trick. You still have to understand how the female psyche works wrt short term mate selections and overcome their barriers. This is a different subject than the Red Pill but they are often conflated.

    That said, I will never respect a man who is timid and scared of women and who values them more than himself. Why should I? What is respectable about that? I thought we were done with equalism – some men are better than others. Such is life.

  3. Glenn,

    Well said.

    I change my terminology for this blog, but I am a big subscriber to Vox Day’s version of alpha-omega and what not. I think it puts some nuance in it that I can more readily comprehend versus the binary thinking of alpha/beta that tends to permeate the comment section here at TRM.

    (although I believe Rollo is not binary in that way)

    Using Vox’s index, I am an easy delta that is trying like hell to be a beta.

  4. @ Jeff

    He lived it and felt no need to tell of hos exploits. He was and is the true warrior.

    Kind of a selfish dickhead to not share his wonderful experiences with other men.

    I’m autistic. I get pleasure talking about my experiences. It’s called “stimming”. I don’t do it to get approval–IDGAF about other men’s approval or disapproval unless I know and value them.

    I’m writing a book about social dancing. One aim is to generate income. Another aim is to help shy men meet women. Part of that book is sharing my experiences to gain trust so that readers believe that I know whereof I speak.

  5. @Ya – Dude, your take on how selection is changing for hot women, 25yo or younger is spot on. I think you are absolutely correct that they are being changed by the amount of attention social media gives them, but I also think the pop culture has convinced them of their invincibility too.

    I think it’s fair to say that at this point in our society in the West, that the most powerful character in our social scene is a nubile young woman. She is the center of so much attention and fawning and is also told that she is amazing and capable of anything. And the spewing of text messages and likes and idiotic comments at them is nothing short of mindblowing if you get a whiff of it. This is why text game has changed – you have to blow through the others with volume and provocations.

    When a man doesn’t treat them like they are gold, this is shocking to them but it also signals that maybe the man is valuable too. You see, they are surrounded by men who constantly signal to them that she is the prize – when you signal that you are are the prize, this has an effect. This is why “older man” game works as we don’t treat them like they are the prize. The reason amused mastery works is that it signals we see through them and know what’s going on. We signal that we aren’t blown away by their asses or cuteness and this in turn signals our value compared to the chodes who are literally begging for their attention.

    @Tim – Lol. Dude, you are preaching to a bunch of folks who’s knowledge of this subject matter is so far beyond your understanding that it’s just amusing to read what you write. Get this and get it clearly. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Yes, you have some facts correct and observe many things we observe, but your understanding of what’s driving all this and how it works is completely wrongheaded and pure Blue Pill/Beta whining. If you want to actually digest the Red Pill, go to the top of the page and start reading Rollo’s best of Year One posts. Read his books.

    But whatever you do, stop lecturing us. You have nothing to offer but blind alley’s and inchoate rage. Just stop and think for a second. What is it your POV has to offer us here? Rage? Hatred of women? Frustration? You need to get beyond that to have a chance at a happy life – with or without women. Sure, your social commentary (as far as it goes) is somewhat correct, but it’s superficial. You can accept this world as it is and thrive in it if you choose, but it will require that you give up your righteous anger. Nobody gives a shit about it – nobody.

  6. @ Keyser

    I’m a natural like you, I always get HB4s and 5s, never 9s or 10s, why is that?

    Maybe you’re not picky. Maybe you’re too lazy to approach without an IOI. Write some Field Reports about approaching 9s and 10s.

  7. @Keyser – I’m with you on enjoying the sluttery of today’s world, and also being grateful for Betas. They make it easier for a guy like me to get laid. That’s Red Pill – seeing how we can use our circumstances to help us get what we want. That’s being one’s own point of mental origin.

    @All – Rollo repubbed a comment up the thread here which anyone here who doesn’t understand why they aren’t “alpha” needs to get. When he started seeing women through the lens of his own enjoyment, versus trying to win women over or trying to please them, this is when the world shifted for him. I think this is the simplest way for us to see what we are aiming for – Red Pill, Alpha – they are just labels. For me, the starting point for male self-actualization is rejecting the FI imposed worldview that makes serving women important to men.

    This is also why Christians are in an even deeper bind as it tells them that “self-forgetting” is the way to spiritual purity, lol. And that service is one’s highest calling and that men are supposed to live up to an impossible standard (being Christlike) to be worthy of their wive’s devotion. Clearing your mind of all this poppycock is the first step.

    The next step is asking yourself what it is YOU actually want. Many of us have never allowed ourselves to actually ask this question openly and honestly. Until you have an answer that pleases you and motivates you, I’m afraid you are still choking on the Red Pill. And if you think being a better Christian makes you more “alpha”, well, I’m just laughing even harder…

  8. CC: “I change my terminology for this blog, but I am a big subscriber to Vox Day’s version of alpha-omega and what not. I think it puts some nuance in it that I can more readily comprehend versus the binary thinking of alpha/beta that tends to permeate the comment section here at TRM.”

    The alpha/beta dichotomy seems to be a point of extreme inconsistency and often contention just about everywhere in the sphere, from what I’ve noticed. I really have only my own experiences to go by, and my observations don’t really correlate with a good portion of the “alpha/beta” stuff I’ve read online.

    Here is a juxtapositional anecdote that came to mind, reading the topic. It came to my mind right away since it provides a pretty striking difference in personality profile.
    Just this past weekend my husband and I were at a large family gathering among friends. There was a teenaged boy (senior in high school, I think) and he was sort of standing and wanted to go up and talk to my husband, but he couldn’t gather up the nerve. Eventually, his aunt asked Mike if he minded speaking to the kid since he wants to be a pilot too. So of course Mike didn’t mind and they sat for a couple of hours talking.

    By contrast, when Mike was that age he drove onto the base (not knowing a soul, this was before 911). Actually went up to a squadron building and entered and started asking people around the hall if there was any way he could catch a ride in the backseat of an F16. People were all standing around wondering, who the hell is this ballsy kid? 😛

    The difference often kind of carries over to other aspects of life, too.

  9. asdgamer,

    taillight game seems creepy as fuck.

    Liz,

    Did he get to ride in the F16? A real alpha would of gotten the ride. Sounds like you married a beta. lol

    anonymous reader,

    lol on the florida guy. I’ve heard that domestic violence towards men is a bigger deal than anyone realizes, which is sickening for all sorts of reasons. The biggest one being why a man would tolerate it.

  10. “Did he get to ride in the F16? A real alpha would of gotten the ride. Sounds like you married a beta. lol”

    Nope. Alas, no F16 ride. 😛

  11. CaveClown, IMO a thirsty beta man would be a prime target for emotionally / physically abusive women to torture. The man in Florida clearly was too thirsty for his own good. He should follow through with being rid of that woman.

  12. Liz, Darling,
    When women are given the choice to pick between two guys, which one you’d want to fuck, and which one you’d want to marry? This is the AF / BB ,(you knnnnow that).
    Menstrual cycle? Ovulation?
    2 options?

  13. “The man in Florida clearly was too thirsty for his own good.”

    No no! He just didn’t understand women, shit-tests and all that. She was just giving a little resistance so she could get wet from him dealing with it and he must have failed obviously. The following escalation is quite typical for repeated failing of shit-tests and probably a typical driver of domestic violence against men. Once you understand all that you can even feel pity for such women trying again and again to feel some strength in the man and it just doesn’t show up because he “doesn’t get it”.

  14. “I’m 100% confident that if a woman ever tried to hit me or whatever, I would be going to jail that day.”

    I’m not that confident. If you don’t let them pressure you until you explode but decisively hit back to stop it, they don’t call the police but want to fuck you.

  15. “When women are given the choice to pick between two guys, which one you’d want to fuck, and which one you’d want to marry? This is the AF / BB ,(you knnnnow that).
    Menstrual cycle? Ovulation?
    2 options?”

    I see what you’re saying, Keyser. I just don’t believe it’s such a polarized dichotomy. Folks often have aspects of each. I would say that’s the case more often than not.

  16. Liz,

    In all seriousness, more masculine men taking the time to mentor a shy guy like who you described can make all the difference in the world them. Even if it is just a few minutes.

    An alpha man makes a big impression on women, but also a big impression on lesser men. Life altering in some instances.

    I had the honor of working with a really alpha guy when I was a much younger man. This guy was 40-45 and eventually married an HB9 that was about 24 years old. (she has since hit the wall doing about 90mph, scary)

    This guy changed my life. Looking back, this was the first real natural alpha I had ever been around…ever.

    I lost 90lbs in a year because of this guy. I started a career that is paying huge dividends now because of this guy. I did my first ever cold approaches because of this guy. (and then married the first chick that said yes, lol)

    You guys with sons, remember this.

  17. “I’m 100% confident that if a woman ever tried to hit me or whatever, I would be going to jail that day.”
    I’m not that confident. If you don’t let them pressure you until you explode but decisively hit back to stop it, they don’t call the police but want to fuck you.”

    Haha!

    Much better frame, I like it.

  18. “This guy changed my life. Looking back, this was the first real natural alpha I had ever been around…ever.
    I lost 90lbs in a year because of this guy. I started a career that is paying huge dividends now because of this guy. I did my first ever cold approaches because of this guy.”

    That’s awesome, CC. 🙂
    Mike is very good at mentoring (I think). That’s why he spoke to the boy for a couple of hours. He would never shrug someone like that off.
    We have sons also. Our oldest is the age of that young man I mentioned.
    🙂

    1. @Anonymous Reader
      “IMO a thirsty beta man would be a prime target for emotionally / physically abusive women to torture.”

      Damn that’s sad.

      @Caveclown
      To me that was Rollo and a buddy who got me to Rollos blog.

  19. Theaassgamer
    “Maybe you’re not picky. Maybe you’re too lazy to approach without an IOI. Write some Field Reports about approaching 9s and 10s.”

    Oh no, I’m picky, I always approach bar tenders and Hb6 and 5s. At the bars where I go to, there are no 9s or 10s, otherwise , they will give me lots of IOIs.

  20. Liz, Darling, Darling,
    “I see what you’re saying, Keyser. I just don’t believe it’s such a polarized dichotomy. Folks often have aspects of each. I would say that’s the case more often than not.”

    Here is some polarized dichotomy :

    “When looking for a life partner((BETA)), my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys((alpha)), the cool boys((alpha)), the commitment-phobic boys((alpha)), the crazy boys((alpha)). But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys((alpha)) sexy do not make them good husbands((BETA)). When it comes time to settle down, find someone who((is Beta)) wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist((80%)) and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

  21. Well, keyser, the person you’re quoting obviously has a whole lot more experience in dating than I have.
    So maybe after all those many, many cocks, she views men less as individuals and more as the first and second letters of the greek alphabet.

  22. @ Liz

    The alpha/beta dichotomy seems to be a point of extreme inconsistency and often contention just about everywhere in the sphere, from what I’ve noticed.

    The vagueness attack is very common when someone doesn’t like a narrative. Hence the inconsistency.

  23. Liz, Darling,
    “So maybe after all those many, many cocks, she views men less as individuals and more as the first and second letters of the greek alphabet.”

    Darling, you are forgetting you are a woman too.
    When Sandy says :”These men exist((80%)) and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”
    Women would respond to Sandy by saying :
    Wise up bone head, we KNOW these men exist, but, there is no “tingles”.

  24. @ALL, I’m on a commercial shoot for one of my brands all day today so I’ll only be checking back sporadically as I’m filling in for an extra who was a no show.

    @LM, please, do us all a favor and at least read the Year One and maybe Year 3 posts before you think you’re telling us anything new. You’re following standard new woman protocol with, “Are women allowed to post here? I hope so, because as a woman I,…

    It’s very predictable, and honestly it show a very typical female lack of intellectual curiosity.

    In the meantime, solipsism:
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/09/02/solipsism-i/
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/09/09/solipsism-ii/
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/07/14/our-sisters-keeper/

    This is all the hand holding I’m going to do for you until you show some initiative.

  25. “The vagueness attack is very common when someone doesn’t like a narrative. Hence the inconsistency.”

    Whose narrative, though? It seems to change depending.
    Some posters agree with you, others have different versions of alpha, and so forth. It’s this way throughout the sphere. I think Rollo’s is “alpha is a state of mind”. Others might argue alphas can’t be monogamous, alphas don’t do LTRs, alphas can’t be Christians, and so forth.

    I won’t argue…I have no monopoly on the word ‘alpha’ (and, as keyser notes, I am a chick) I just can’t help noticing how diverse this definition is, and how contentious it often is.

  26. I am intrigued – though frankly not happy – to see what I’ve been reporting at the high school dating level now be confirmed by lh, Liz, Cave, and, in off-campus bar culture, by YaReally. and being taught un UMC high schools.

    Dept. of Redundancy Dept.: “The real turning point is happening now, but not in the whining of older lonely divorced boomers mad at the fact they didn’t Die Before They Get Old. Instead, look at the current generation of high schoolers. They no longer date, in the sense of boys asking out girls. Approaching is too difficult, teens today are super-sensitive sprites, rejection is much more a soul killer to them than it ever was to a too-shy Beta boy in the 80s. So teens do everything as groups of friends. Even to dances and proms. Sure, coupling occurs, at the Alpha bad-boy levels you’d expect. But if recent surveys are a guide, virginity is far more prevalent than ever, activity is far less common. They’re too scared to try. (You know who still engages in old-fashioned one-on-one dating? Gay couples).

    “Already on a growing number of college campuses, there are more women than men. The few and the proud – [not] – beta men who are there know they should not push too hard to meet girls. In their freshman relationship seminars they are told it’s not allowed, approach could be an assault. Because “unwanted contact” (i.e. a clumsy approach) can be grounds for expulsion for sexual assault on some campuses. So the obedient students just want to get their degrees without fuss and move on. They’re America’s grass-eaters. And women won’t date down blow their social/educational levels. You can’t make them. They just complain there aren’t enough men to their liking available. Not just here, of course. Ask the Japanese, or the urban Chinese.”

    BTW the virginity cite comes from a recent NY Mag “The Cut” article.

    So all this has seeped out of the college campus and into high school health classes. Standoffish beta chode behavior isn’t a lifestyle choice anymore, it’s the LAW!

  27. “…And, OVER TIME, nothing is sexier…”

    Meaning after you are post wall and the tingle generators don’t want you anymore, and you’ve suddenly realized that you don’t want the shame of being alone, you can marry a beta and that will assuage the feelings of shame you have that maybe a man didn’t want to commit to you so meanwhile you do your best to assure yourself and everyone else that this guy was your first choice by arguing and rationalizing that his reliability is sexy.

    You can always substitute the tingles with dildos, social media validation, and the occasional “it just happened” fling with the package delivery guy at work where you are busy “having it all” anyway, so why not?

  28. @James, here’s how to be ‘Alpha’ without saying a word:
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/02/02/the-art-of-amog/

    Law 33 – Discover Each Man’s Thumbscrew
    Everyone has a weakness, a gap in the castle wall.  That weakness is usualy an insecurity, an uncontrollable emotion or need; it can also be a small secret pleasure.  Either way, once found, it is a thumbscrew you can turn to your advantage.

    In the early part of my career in liquor branding I worked for a very rich man in his mid 60s. This guy had quite the resume of “successes”, but for the greater part they’d come from his self-importance and borrowing money than any real talent of his own. He was the owner, but had a reputation for attention seeking and a love of flattery that bordered on arrogance. Usually this would come at the expense of whomever happened to be outshining him as the master.

    He was a consummate AMOG, but with no real legitimacy. At one point we had an important negotiation with a Chinese distributor to get our brands into an Asian market and as he’d typically do he wanted to entertain the reps over dinner after a big trade show we’d met them at. They were impressed with me because I was responsible for the creative side of the company, but even with my own deferential credits to my ‘boss’ he took it as an opportunity to AMOG me in front of his new ‘friends’.

    I actually saw this coming (it’d happened on other occasions) and I had a good prior knowledge of the sensibilities of the Chinese from my time in doing casino marketing, so I diplomatically let him hang himself with his self-aggrandizement and bluster at my expense. Predictably the reps were off-put by this and we lost the distribution. The good news was that about a year and a half later I was offered a string of very lucrative branding contracts for several of this Asian company’s holdings (2 of which I still front now) because of this patience and letting my boss implode. And all I did was see it coming and let him convict himself.

    Every AMOG has a weakness to exploit. Sometimes discovering this requires a patience most guys simply don’t want to wait around for, but with a bit of tact and attention it doesn’t take long. I think the older a man gets the easier it is to judge the character of others (or it should) – you experience the “types” enough to gauge a predictable character action.

    I understand your frustrations with the stereotypical ‘Alpha’ douchebags you think are boors. They may well be that, but what you have going for you is Red Pill awareness and a desire to learn. For as much as these guys seem like one sided morons you still have opportunities to learn from them, and what their thumbscrews are.

    Most guys like you describe rarely develop the personal insight to realize why they are successful with women or really anything else. It’s due to simple luck, Alpha overbearingness or physical appeal. This opens them up to being exploited (thumbscrews) by women and men with the insight and tact to do so.

    I’ve learned very well how to deal with über competitive mindsets in my line of work. I’ve been forced to learn to be competitive myself, and I enjoy it, but it took some time to learn when to let an idiot explain himself without interrupting him and then profiting by it.

  29. @ Cave

    taillight game seems creepy as fuck.

    Some men and women have different perceptions.

    Think of the woman, not as a beautiful, high-value scary woman, but as a little girl playmate who wants to play your game. She sees you as scary if you’re serious, so you have to prove to her that you’re fun.

    Did you see what I did with LM? Did you think that that was creepy? She ate it up. Liz likes the same sort of banter. That’s how girls are.

  30. Asd,

    I’m not a stranger to game. Rookie for sure, but not clueless. I get the whole being fun when appropriate…my personal motto is “always be teasing”

    I actually lean on the goofball side, which I’ve had to tune back a bit.

    You don’t have to defend your game to me, if it works for ya great.

    Just seemed less bold, and more weird than anything. But whatever works bro.

  31. Liz
    Well, keyser, the person you’re quoting obviously has a whole lot more experience in dating than I have.

    Cave Clown
    Meaning after you are post wall and the tingle generators don’t want you anymore, and you’ve suddenly realized that you don’t want the shame of being alone, you can marry a beta and that will assuage the feelings of shame you have that maybe a man didn’t want to commit to you so meanwhile you do your best to assure yourself and everyone else that this guy was your first choice by arguing and rationalizing that his reliability is sexy.

    Y’all do realize that keyser Soze took the words of Sheryl Sandberg (Yahoo figurehead) and made tiny alterations to them? That those words are her advice to young, professional women in their 20’s, riders of the Cock Carousel? That those words are what Rollo points to as an example of open hypergamy?

    He didn’t just make that stuff up. That’s how a lot of 20-something women are living right now. Because that’s what’s held up as the best way for them to be strong-n-independent wimmenz.

  32. Oh and asd,

    I have virtually no AA for HB7 or less. I just imagine them with cum on their face, and it takes any delusions of their having higher value right out of my head.

    Seriously.

  33. @Matt, I am familiar with the SMV vs. MMV in certain circles of the sphere, Dalrocks for instance. I think what men hope for is that their married market value can be disentangled from is how SMV instructs MMV.

    That Beta in Waiting who believes his ship’s come in at 30 because the 28-29 year old woman in the midst of her Epiphany Phase suddenly “sees what a great guy he always was” honestly believe that their SMV is their MMV. They believe this because they’ve been conditioned to follow that script, but only when they’re on the sharp end of a frivorce at 40 do they understand that MMV is no insulation from Hypergamy.

    Roosh has fucked himself. He’s written a couple of posts about how he doesn’t believe men’s SMV peaks around 36-37 because he’s done absolutely nothing in the last 10 years to maximize his male potential. So naturally the good ole days for a domain dependent guy like himself was back around 27 when he could best capitalize on Game and the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy.

    If you read about the guy in Validation Hunting and the Jenny Bahn Epiphany:
    http://therationalmale.com/2014/10/13/validation-hunting-the-jenny-bahn-epiphany/

    you’ll see a guy who’s come into his apex of sexual selection since he’s maximized his potential and the women most necessitous of what he represents will do literally anything for him. Roosh will never know this kind of peak potential. He’s never developed any intrinsic equity nor has he had the experiences to mature into a man who should know how to leverage it because he’s simply never bothered to.

    Roosh, and more than a few purple pill dating coaches are married to the game. Their financial solvency depends on pandering to the romantic insecurities of others. As a result they socially isolate themselves from learning opportunities that would help them develop mature understandings about women and men and what motivates them at different times of their lives.

    To my knowledge Roosh has never had an LTR, never been divorced, never married, never raised a son or daughter to adulthood, never dealt with 9-5 work life, never changed a diaper, has no close IRL social circle, never had many of the experiences that a majority of men go through, but yet we think he’s qualified to redefine masculinity? The same can be said of many of the purple pill gurus as well.

    His dream may be to settle down with a -12 year old woman with minimal sex partners, but he still lacks the critical experience needed to optimize his SMV peak potential so I can’t say I’d be very optimistic about how well that monogamy would work out for him even if he did find his unicorn.

  34. Rollo, ” let an idiot explain himself without interrupting him and then profiting by it.”

    Do you read this, Theaassgamer?
    Ps,
    After finishing your book, and after visiting your blog comments thread, it’s more than enough to publish 4 copies .

  35. ‘re, open cuckolding

    Seems like blackdragon and the like are on the leading edge of accounting for that lack of monogamy in women, or redefining monogamy as the salon article implies.

  36. @ Liz

    Rollo provides the main narrative for the manosphere. Others try to vary Rollo’s definition of alpha for their own purposes. PUAs will demean LTRs and vary Rollo’s def to suit them. Atheists will do the same to demean Christians, etc.

    Even me. For me, an alpha is any man who internalizes the maxim, “Pussy is just pussy.” It’s a specific state of mind with a commitment to the Patriarchical society, to which Rollo doesn’t commit, afaik.

  37. @ keyser

    Rollo, ” let an idiot explain himself without interrupting him and then profiting by it.”

    Do you read this, Theaassgamer?
    Ps,
    After finishing your book, and after visiting your blog comments thread, it’s more than enough to publish 4 copies .

    Wanna put your cookies on the lower shelf for me?

    1. @Rollo Tommassi
      “Most guys like you describe rarely develop the personal insight to realize why they are successful with women or really anything else. It’s due to simple luck, Alpha overbearingness or physical appeal. This opens them up to being exploited (thumbscrews) by women and men with the insight and tact to do so.”

      I enjoy observing this.

      “That Beta in Waiting who believes his ship’s come in at 30 because the 28-29 year old woman in the midst of her Epiphany Phase suddenly “sees what a great guy he always was” honestly believe that their SMV is their MMV. They believe this because they’ve been conditioned to follow that script, but only when they’re on the sharp end of a frivorce at 40 do they understand that MMV is no insulation from Hypergamy.”

      Getting out of confront zones and buffers.

  38. Asd,

    Next time I see an honest to God HB8+ in my part of the country, I’ll go say hi.

    Don’t hold your breath.

  39. “That Beta in Waiting who believes his ship’s come in at 30 because the 28-29 year old woman in the midst of her Epiphany Phase suddenly “sees what a great guy he always was”

    I’ve got this going on at least to some extent in my marriage.

    I don’t pretend to know all the dynamics in this marriage, because BPD thing.

    Ah well…I’m just enjoying what she has to give until I decide what my future looks like.

    Will it include her?

    Maybe, if she’s lucky.

  40. “a girl just like Mama.”

    I’m looking for the type of girl who reminds me of my mother. But how many girls do you know with a viper tattooed on their tushie? And how many girls do you know that can play the harmonica with their pussies? – Blood Hound Gang; ‘Three Point One Four’

  41. The only issue I see with redefning monogamy is those of us that desire it as it was will have VERY few like minded people to pair off with. If your an introverted monogamous man, you’re shit out of luck. Lol

    And I’m not even talking “til death do us part” here. I’m saying soon it will NOT be the norm to be sexually monogamous. If you want to be AND want your partner to be monogamous… Well good luck finding any woman that looks half decent to agree to that pre-wall.

  42. “And I’m not even talking “til death do us part” here. I’m saying soon it will NOT be the norm to be sexually monogamous. If you want to be AND want your partner to be monogamous… Well good luck finding any woman that looks half decent to agree to that pre-wall.”

    I thought better looking women had fewer sex partners.

  43. @CaveClown
    “An alpha man makes a big impression on women, but also a big impression on lesser men. Life altering in some instances.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgsyR9kyUy0

    @Liz
    “I just can’t help noticing how diverse this definition is, and how contentious it often is.”

    And yet, having different opinions doesn’t prevent us from still discussing things, viewing things from eachother’s perspectives, and even being alright with reaching different conclusions based on our various life experiences. Weird, hey? It’d be a lot easier if someone would just tell us what to think.

    @Fred Flange
    Thanks for the snippet. Again it confirms the stuff I’m seeing infield in the <25yo range:

    – there's no such thing as dating now, it's a foreign concept to these chicks…which makes day2 game almost pointless. It seems like the general M.O. is "go over to netflix & chill a few times and if there's chemistry then bang when the girl decides she wants to". This is nice in that it means no more day2s or spending money on booze and shit at a bar, but it also means hanging out with a girl for a couple hours at my/her apartment doing fuck and all instead of having sex which is like, 1) boring, I have other shit I could be doing that's more productive but then I'm mid-30s, the 16-25yo crowd has nothing to do but hang out, and 2) builds too much Comfort and will probably trigger them falling in love faster if they're looking for a relationship (which most aren't) or kill attraction by taking you out of the Lover frame and into the Provider frame if they're looking for a Lover, so I'm finding there are nuances to it…but it's definitely not like it was in 2005 where if a girl came over that meant she's there for sex and we both know it. It's kind of a surreal dynamic but seems to make sense to them in their world.

    Their current strategy almost forces the guy to build more Comfort, but they don't realize that building that Comfort will reduce their value as a Lover and make them less attractive, so in a way the girls are kind of shooting themselves in the foot but have so much abundance they don't care. Best way to explain it is imagine you're surrounded by girls that want to fuck you but you make them all eat McDonald's for a year before you'll fuck them because that's just the norm now and they're happy to do it for the chance and you can screen them harder etc, and you may even really think at the start that you're going to fuck them someday…but the more McDonald's they eat the less attractive they get to you so that when you're finally comfortable with them they're no longer attractive to you…but that's okay because your Tinder just lit up and there are 50 more girls to take her place. It's a fascinating dynamic when you understand seduction and attraction

    – because the boys are all super-thirsty, it seems like the girls basically have cock on demand and understand it…so these girls keep trying to "take charge" and determine the timeline of when we fuck because, in their experience in life so far, that's how it works, the boys orbit her and are grateful for any miniscule scrap of attention she gives them, even just allowing them to hang out and watch netflix and not get sex out of it and they happily come back for more, until she decides they're going to have sex and then she takes charge and the boys go along with it. This is weird compared to the old days where it's the man leading the interaction and determining the timeline etc. Again these are small patterns I'm noticing and I'm sure there are ways to counter it and steamroll over it etc, but it's interesting to see multiple girls pulling the same behaviors.

    – boys can't cold approach and are basically huge pussies now, who hide behind social media and texting to interact with girls most of the time. This is alright in high-school where they're all locked in a school together, but when they all hit the bar scene those boys are going to be obliterated by older men because they're just not equipped to handle approaching girls and seducing them…most of the time they just end up making guys like me look BETTER because the girl is like "thank god, someone who isn't like the neutered boys I'm surrounded by all day" Hopefully some of those boys find the Red Pill but if they don't, we're in for a lot more Elliot Rogers. The FI has them fucking terrified to even think of women as sexual objects let alone competently treat them as such the way women WANT them to.

    – <25yo girls don't seem to have much of a reference for "alpha" and don't recognize it immediately. It's like they instinctively try to get you to chase now, but if you don't they aren't bothered and will just move on because they have so many options and don't really realize that some options are better than others. But the interesting thing is that if you can get them live in-person, they instinctively react with attraction to alpha behavior and seem confused by it.

    – the girls also don't seem to know how to seduce men anymore, because why would they? They don't HAVE to, they have hundreds of thirsty beta chodes chasing them that will snap to attention at any opportunity they get, so when you DO hook them it's hilarious because they're like, kind of inept/awkward about it. Like they want to hang out but don't know how to make it happen in a smooth way, kind of like an AFC, so they say/do weird shit or throw out weirdly see-thru invites but it's all couched in this neutral vibe like you read their texts and go "…is this her trying to get me to fuck her? wtf?" It's like they haven't had to learn to show interest/intent and "convince" a guy to fuck them, because of all the validation they're getting, so when they DO want to, they revert to AFC behavior.

    – they're pretty much ALWAYS out in groups, BARE minimum 2 but usually 3+. I can't even remember the last time I've seen a girl at a bar solo in the <25yo range. And they are DAMN hard to separate from their friends now…it's like they all have to hold hands all night and can never separate or the world will end. This is a big contrast from the old days, esp when texting barely existed, where girls would just ditch their friends no fucks given to go on an adventure with some guy they're attracted to. It's like this weird…not co-dependent? Maybe that IS the word? I don't know but it's like, they're scared to be "independent" (ironically, with feminism and all). Not sure how to describe it, but like it's this weird clingy thing like they don't know what to do if they don't have a group consensus or all go with eachother. But I figure that's what leads to the whole netflix & chill attitude, they basically hang in groups and eventually by the end of the night it's down to just two people who finally hook up and they're all cool with this slow passive pace.

    – I can't imagine how a lot of these boys are getting laid and I'm pretty sure they aren't, and are settling for validation from the girls in place of it. Like with enough long text convos with girls and long hangout nights with girls where something COULD happen, supplemented with easy-access internet porn, that almost seems to be enough for a lot of these boys. Like they think they're doing good if they can get that attention because at least it's attention…but the girls just like having the orbiter validation and don't want to fuck them.

    There'll be counters to all of this stuff, and it might not even be hugely widescale yet but like, my buddy and I are noticing it because both of us have been gaming for years and watched this shift happen. I have no doubt we'll figure out how to work within this newer culture and dominate it but we're in a learning curve with it right now.

    I even know a 23yo girl who in our first conversation flat out told me her plan is to fool around with random guys and focus on her career and then cash in with a beta bucks in her 30s and has one lined up already. Like, holy shit lol

    @Rollo
    "Roosh, and more than a few purple pill dating coaches are married to the game. Their financial solvency depends on pandering to the romantic insecurities of others. As a result they socially isolate themselves from learning opportunities that would help them develop mature understandings about women and men and what motivates them at different times of their lives."

    This is why I don't just sell my shit and make a career out of that. The career I'm focusing on is 100% unrelated to anything I type here. That's WHY I can go out there and try new shit and fuck around and write about what I'm noticing infield instead of having to front and bluff or stick rigidly to a system with my name on it.

    I think a big problem for Roosh is that he's never really challenged himself, he's always run away from challenge and looked for the easier way around it. Getting bitch-shields? Run away and find girls who don't shit-test. Need to step up your game in North America? Run off to Europe and Thailand. Girl doesn't txt you back right away? Next her instead of trying to find ways to get her to respond. Girl isn't immediately receptive to you when you approach? Next her and find one who is. Like, how could he really grow when he's always running away from the shit that would force him to?

    It's basically the classic case of someone playing to not lose instead of playing to win.

    @CaveClown
    "Seems like blackdragon and the like are on the leading edge of accounting for that lack of monogamy in women, or redefining monogamy as the salon article implies."

    No idea wtf redefining monogamy is, but the Blackdragon types are out there looking for solutions and as always we'll figure this shit out. Really my summary of pLTRs (check my archive) is the optimal route right now, all there is left to solve is how to pull off having and raising kids successfully in a pLTR arrangement. Unfortunately it's (obviously) a lot harder/slower to get those data points lol

    @teddj4g
    "I’m saying soon it will NOT be the norm to be sexually monogamous"

    The 21yo I pulled this weekend went into rants about how humans aren't meant to be monogamous before I could get a word out of my rant that I used to have to use to convince them of that lol Monogamy is dead and will be replaced with open Hypergamy and cuckoldry from the women's side, and agreeing to those terms or learning pickup and creating pLTRs on the men's side.

    I have no idea what all these things will lead to in terms of how society will look in 10-20 years but it's sure as shit going to look DIFFERENT.

  44. @asd
    “You’re likely the girl mama warned me about.”

    That’s very likely true.

    Gotta go anyway. Rollo has started deleting my comments and I’m pretty sure is getting ready to ban me.

  45. Liz – “I thought better looking women had fewer sex partners.”

    Notice I said decent looking. The extremely hot among humanity don’t have to play by the rules as the 80%, and in this climate neither do average young women.

    So my point was: if like me a young man wants monogamy with an average woman, he may not find many takers. They may want to LTR him up, but if the expectation of sexual exclusivity is included in his offer, he’s gonna find that a difficult sell if she’s grown up with no such concept.

  46. So women no longer need monogamy, but as a whole, most men DO want monogamy.

    Which is why most men will check out, because of not being comfortable with “their woman” banging other guys.

    Like being in an orgy, and not being the biggest dick in the room…talk about burden of performance holy fuck.

  47. CaveClown – I will fully admit “being comfortable” with my woman largely hinges on my belief in sexual exclusivity. Of course I’m fully aware I can’t control that, but I’m far more comfortable knowing my wife grew up with a concept of cheating. If sex is just sex, cheating cant exist.

    If I can’t have some sense of ownership with my wife, what’s the point of marriage at all?

  48. @Rollo Tomassi

    Hey Rollo, I’m relatively new to the Manosphere here. Read both of your books in a matter of days last week. And man, talk about a world I wasn’t prepared to step into. I’m 23 and currently deployed overseas. Just so happened to stumble upon The Rational Male while searching for titles related to the 48 Laws of Power. My life is forever altered because of this material. But the reason I leave my comment here is to ask: Is there anyway you can make a post regarding a plethora of Blue Pill arguments in a collective post? (I.e Men can sleep with whoever they want and women can’t because society is hypocritical, you’re just upset because you can’t get any pussy etc.) I know you bring up multiple examples through The Rational Male book series; it would be a helpful reference centralized guide of examples for the Manosphere. I’m still in the process of digesting and fully grasping these concepts you’ve put out; so I’m still sifting through these articles amongst the blog. And although btter, it’s truly changed my perspective for the better.

  49. @teddj4g
    “So my point was: if like me a young man wants monogamy with an average woman, he may not find many takers. They may want to LTR him up, but if the expectation of sexual exclusivity is included in his offer, he’s gonna find that a difficult sell if she’s grown up with no such concept.”

    This is what’s happening out there. Even if I WANTED a monoLTR with a <25yo girl it would be difficult to find a taker because they have been FULLY raised in the eat pray love FI mindset. A lot of them seem to view having a boyfriend as an INCONVENIENCE rather than a GOAL…but at the same time, that could be because they're surrounded by feminized beta chodes that they can't envision a monoLTR with, VS if like the guy from Twilight wanted a monoLTR with them they might be down for it.

    It's kind of like if you were surrounded by fat chicks and the fatties were like "don't you want a monoLTR?" and you have seen ZERO girls above like a 4/10 your entire life, you'd be like "no fuck a monoLTR, if I have to fuck these fatties I'm at least not going to tie myself down to one because they're all going to get clingy and fatter and I'm going to need to bail on them the second an 8+/10 walks through the room and I have a shot with them"

    "Which is why most men will check out, because of not being comfortable with “their woman” banging other guys."

    Thus the huge push toward normalizing cuckoldry and the AF/BB system the last few years. We're smart enough and old enough to not fall for that, but is some 12yo boy who's picking up how the world works through TV because he has no dad (esp not an alpha one) to teach him and his single mom uses it to babysit him while she goes out and fucks guys like me?

  50. Of course, I started this relationship on the basis of ownership, and my wife understands it. But if the trend continues monogamy will become an extremely fringe practice, for better or worse.

    So basically I agree with you Cave, everyday marriage becomes less appealing for the average man. And frankly I don’t see that as a positive for a stable society. Maybe I’m just old and grumpy. (But its actually that I’m an INTJ thatndoesnt like people lol)

  51. “So basically I agree with you Cave, everyday marriage becomes less appealing for the average man. ”

    Yeah, no. Any man that gets married in 2015 is an idiot. If i ever get divorced, I will never remarry…ever.

    I’m kinda torn with all of this otherwise. With my wife, yeah i don’t want her fucking other dudes. But I can honestly say that I never gave a flying fuck with any other chick I’ve been with, who she was banging besides me, how many in the past, just didn’t care.

    Jealousy? Nah. I at least one of them I actually really liked too.

    I think it all depends on if you can compete in a situation like that.

    Could I?

    Beats me.

  52. CaveClown – if there was no legal sword over my head, I’d be less concerned. Personally I’m not too worried because I’m in a position to walk away with very little negative impact to me or my kids. Helps a great deal with my ZFG attitude, but most married men are NOT in a position to eject easily.

    Plus I was an only child, and never learned to play nice with others and share my toys. That’s exactly how the exclusivity “discussion” went down too lol. I followed with “if you want to be mine, you’re mine alone”. I also grabbed her ass after I said “I do” and whispered in her ear “mine” when we did the first kiss thing. Actually, now that I think on it, a lot of my daily drive-by game is simply reminders that her ass belongs to me. :-p

  53. Excellent observation and exploration. Those who hate betas are psychologically trying to disassociate from their inner beta which they assumed the alpha adopted behavior would eliminate. It’s essentially a projection of self hatred. However, there is also a natural tendency to distance ourselves from that which we perceive as weak or sick in both men and women. That said, nature can only tolerate a limited number of alpha, or society would collapse. We are wired to both compete and cooperate. We favor one tendency over the other. Pure alphas don’t play well with others and are likely to have short life spans. A collective of betas can outnumber and purge problematic alphas and secure a cohesive culture or society. Beta Game is just as adaptive as alpha, personal satisfaction not withstanding. The Yin and Yang are two sides of the same coin. RP awareness gives us greater opportunity to choose who we want to be. Id rather be the Alpha, or purple, surrounded by a majority of betas for obvious reasons. #donthatethebeta

  54. “Thus the huge push toward normalizing cuckoldry and the AF/BB system the last few years. We’re smart enough and old enough to not fall for that, but is some 12yo boy who’s picking up how the world works through TV because he has no dad (esp not an alpha one) to teach him and his single mom uses it to babysit him while she goes out and fucks guys like me?”

    Smart enough to try and fall on the AF side of the equation anyway.

    Meanwhile, the next generation is just flat being raised to serve women on the BB side of things. (which isn’t even real money anymore, just validation)

    These men don’t stand a chance.

  55. @teddj4g

    “also grabbed her ass after I said “I do” and whispered in her ear “mine” when we did the first kiss thing.”

    That gave me tingles.

  56. “And frankly I don’t see that as a positive for a stable society. Maybe I’m just old and grumpy. (But its actually that I’m an INTJ thatndoesnt like people lol)”

    I don’t see that as a positive either. If true, that’s essentially ghetto values permeating society. Might make for an interesting tabloid, but to see how it goes writ large in actual practice, the evidence is in the result.

  57. @ YaReally

    I’ve observed a phenomenon and wondered if you had seen it, too. Two older girls, good friends, one of them (‘A’) throws the other (‘B’) at you and B isn’t all that excited about you, but A is. Maybe A thinks that B needs to be in a relationship and thinks that you are hot and a good match for B.

  58. @CaveClown,

    “Meaning after you are post wall and the tingle generators don’t want you anymore, and you’ve suddenly realized that you don’t want the shame of being alone, you can marry a beta and that will assuage the feelings of shame you have that maybe a man didn’t want to commit to you so meanwhile you do your best to assure yourself and everyone else that this guy was your first choice by arguing and rationalizing that his reliability is sexy.”

    Dude. That is worth the title; quote of the month.

    But this AF/BB thing has a strange sting to it when I read it, I think it takes time getting used to. It is almost as if a man is either just a piece of meat, or a piece of wealth. And the woman is a just a whore looking for either one of the two, whichever suits the day of the month. Real fucked up shit.

    Since I read about the AF/BB a few months ago, I wake up in the morning I look at the woman lying in my bed and the thoughts in my mind are rolling on like: This girl was wet to her butt last night because I was just a bloody piece of meat. But if I keep this up and she starts seeing me more often, then she will automatically start going for the coin. That thought line is just disgusting. Her beauty suddenly turns ugly. After that I just want to grab a quick shower and get lost.

    Damn.

  59. LM/Liz – women tend to enjoy being “owned” by a man they perceives as high value. So, I consider it a sign I’m doing well that she still enjoys the terms of the purchase. 😉

    Also, it also means a man should expect some ownership, and next any woman that protests. Maybe that’s just me though.

  60. So even in the clubs, as YaReally tells us, change is afoot in what was the hookup scene. No one approaches anyone. People stay in groups, and if they interact at all, do so as groups. Maybe the way over this speedbump is to work a new variant on game to break up the group, then create a chance to isolate and escalate.

    Now the scary part: he’s reporting on the girls who actually GO to the club or bar. The New York Mag piece suggests there’s a great many more who don’t. Maybe they do group clones and Snapchat Storying in dorm rooms, lounges, or coffee joints. The chodes do likewise, Calling of Duty instead of Snapchat storyboarding. If you are going to do any sexting, don’t use the university’s servers, the proctors will be watching you, use your phone as the hotspot and go outside the network… and be sure to save the threads to show it’s consensual in case you become subject to Room 101 interrogation.

    Jesus H. Christ In A Chicken Basket, it’s 1870 Social Registry all over again! Stay in your place and don’t say anything not prompted by an authority figure. No forward greeting without a proper introduction. Daisy, I’d like you to meet Mr. Jay Gatsby…

    Before too long the Summer of Love will be the Deep Freeze of Chastity Belts and Headgear. To promote even the barest student interaction colleges may need to hire special safe-space licensed chaperones. They shall host weekly multi-gender mixers (!) wherein they might “gently encourage” one chode to croak “hello” to some FemGrrl as a prelude to God knows what – a social path which may be difficult to navigate so as not to run afoul of SJW-mandated “stare rape” and “unwanted contact” YMY expulsion rules in doing so. (Maybe the Unwanted Approached can signal their disapproval of the Chosen Chode to the fully-licensed chaperone who is immunized and indemnified by the school, thereby not violating YMY or the Chode’s suicidal tendencies?)

  61. The polyamorous future may not be such a bad thing, at least for the good men. It’s of course an SMV powerplay at work: young women, especially those seeking validation, will have several orbiter/boyfriends and will make “polyamory” socially acceptable, like it is already happening. But men’s SMV will rise later on and those able to capitalize on it will find women for which pLTR seems like a normal thing, only they didn’t have it this way before. Everything else is feelz: women don’t feel comfortable having a harem for long, men do. And women feel comfortable being part of a good man’s harem.

    The future “career” may be to be part of an “harem” at young age to get experience and later build one of your own to capitalize on it.

  62. “Since I read about the AF/BB a few months ago, I wake up in the morning I look at the woman lying in my bed and the thoughts in my mind are rolling on like: This girl was wet to her butt last night because I was just a bloody piece of meat. But if I keep this up and she starts seeing me more often, then she will automatically start going for the coin. ”

    I had a really hard time with it too. I’m married, and my wife’s attitude has only turned around after adding a whole lot of dread.

    So yeah, I was good enough for her to keep around for the cash, but I was not sexually exciting until she turned 30 and I added dread. That was after she pretended to be sexually interested in me to secure a ring.

    Sucks.

    Here’s where I’m at…

    I take one day and one interaction at a time. Living in the moment. Right now I just accept what she has to offer me, which in all honesty is some pretty damn good sex. I try not to think of the reasons why she is giving that good sex.

    She’s wet, she’s willing, she’s getting a bit kinkier everyday. I’m gonna push that as far as it will go. That’s what she can offer, so I take it.

    But 99% of my focus is on me. I’m slowly getting better at game, I’m lifting, building my business, changing my mindset (thanks to the good men here), and am back to being a practicing Buddhist.

    I’ve thought about how I would be with women if I end up single (or now as much as I can with the wife), and I guess that would be “I will be good to them for as long as they are good to me, and I will not compromise my frame, MPO, mission, or financials to do so”

    I think the likes of what yareally and blackdragon discuss is the future of sexual relationships in this country.

  63. @yareally

    Your observations gel with what I’ve been seeing even in my semi-hermit mode. I don’t know if you read my FR on when I worked in the deli, but there was this one girl I worked with who responded overwhelmingly to the things I did. I did laser eyes from 20 feet away and she instantly started acting like a little girl, I teased her a bit about her doing a bad job cleaning, and I smiled ridicuously when she told me to “stop smiling!”, etc. Very basic stuff. But it had such an effect on her I was thinking “Has any guy EVER hit on her well at all? I don’t think she’s ever experienced anything other than guys begging for her attention.” So I think my gut was right there.

    I had similar reactons from another girl I worked with. Granted, her’s weren’t as extreme because she has a high SMV boyfriend who she had to fight over to get, but they were still there .

    I’ll call her Zandra.

    When I first met her she was late for her shift.

    “Sorry, I got stuck in traffic.”

    “So what really happened was you got plastered last night, woke up hungover 15 minutes before work, and then called in saying ‘uh, I’m stuck in traffic.'”

    “Nooo, I really was in traffic. I would tell you if I was lying.”

    “That’s . . . exactly what someone who was lying would say.”

    Me accusing her of being drunk really stuck with her, and she brought it up for several weeks afterwards. She got really animated when she told other coworkers about it and when she called me about covering one of her shifts, she added “and its not because I’ve been drinking!”

    Another time when I was working with Zandra I got a call at the front desk. It was just a coworker checking in on something minor. But when I went back Zandra was all concerned.

    “What was that about. Was it about you? Was it about me?”

    I had walked out of talking range at this time, headed to the back of the building, so I just pointed at her with a grave expression.

    “Me?” I saw her mouth.

    I made sure to spend a LONG time in the back. When i returned

    “What did they say? Am I in trouble? What’s going on?”

    “Ehhhh. I don’t really feel like telling you.”

    “Come on, tell me!”

    “Nah. Maybe for 50 bucks though.”

    “No, tell me!”

    But I refused to tell her. At closing she said.

    “You still haven’t told me. Now I am going to be up all night wondering what’s going on. Tell me!”

    “I know. And it hilarious.”

    I never told her what it was. Lke a month later she said

    “You never told me what they said on the phone. What did they say?”

    All that came from just a boring ass phone call that didn’t mean anything. It made me think how many other mundane things I could give vague answers to or just refuse to answer outright that would get that same response.

    Both those times all it did was just tease her a bit about really minor things, but she remembered them for months afterward. So it really does seem like no one ever says “no” to girls anymore, so when you do it really stands out.

    I’ve got some improv clubs I am going to go to, and I plan to go out downtown at least one night a week. Just finishing up working them around my schedule, since i have two jobs and work literally every day of the week.

    I will look to confirm more of what you are saying, and I should have a real FR soon.

  64. @yareally and others

    This is what’s happening out there. Even if I WANTED a monoLTR with a <25yo girl it would be difficult to find a taker because they have been FULLY raised in the eat pray love FI mindset. A lot of them seem to view having a boyfriend as an INCONVENIENCE rather than a GOAL…but at the same time, that could be because they're surrounded by feminized beta chodes that they can't envision a monoLTR with, VS if like the guy from Twilight wanted a monoLTR with them they might be down for it.

    Millennials don’t care about owning anything

    http://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-are-renting-instead-of-buying-2015-5

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/blakemorgan/2015/06/01/nownershipnoproblem-nowners-millennials-value-experiences-over-ownership/

    this generation not only highly values experiences, but they are increasingly spending time and money on them: from concerts and social events to athletic pursuits, to cultural experiences and events of all kinds. For this group, happiness isn’t as focused on possessions or career status. Living a meaningful, happy life is about creating, sharing and capturing memories earned through experiences that span the spectrum of life’s opportunities

    Owning a boyfriend or husband limits experiences. Even if they get married to have kids, after they popped out a couple, it’s Eat Pray Love to get back on that experience bandwagon. What PUA offers them is enjoyable experiences with no ownership.

  65. “Both those times all it did was just tease her a bit about really minor things, but she remembered them for months afterward.”

    You’re young, you have access to the best PUA’s in the world, the best men’s improvement advice in the world, the red pill, and the highest health and energy levels you will ever have.

    TAKE MASSIVE ACTION.

    Don’t measure things in months, make opportunities, make mistakes, and create action!

  66. @caveclown

    this was a girl i worked with, so i wasn’t going to shit where i ate lol

    i get what you are saying though

  67. “this was a girl i worked with, so i wasn’t going to shit where i ate lol”

    I once told a chick I worked with to quit so that we could go out. She was going to, but the owner caught wind of my plan and *asked* me to leave instead…lol.

    CREATE ACTION!

    What does age 30 look like?

    Fitness
    Game
    Notch count
    Living arrangements
    Career
    Experiences

  68. @Cave

    “I change my terminology for this blog, but I am a big subscriber to Vox Day’s version of alpha-omega and what not. I think it puts some nuance in it that I can more readily comprehend versus the binary thinking of alpha/beta that tends to permeate the comment section here at TRM.

    (although I believe Rollo is not binary in that way)”

    @Liz

    “The alpha/beta dichotomy seems to be a point of extreme inconsistency and often contention just about everywhere in the sphere, from what I’ve noticed. I really have only my own experiences to go by, and my observations don’t really correlate with a good portion of the “alpha/beta” stuff I’ve read online. “

    Any model will simplify reality imperfectly. But the difference in definitions is mostly down to differences in focus. Rollo uses an alpha/beta dichotomy because he’s focusing on whether a man is or is not a ‘kept man’ – whether by a woman, society, rules, etc – or if he’s his own man, kept by no-one. Hence his insistence that there is no ‘alpha with a side of beta.’ Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic.

    Vox Day focuses on social roles – a sort of demographics – in his divisions. So if you’re trying to understand social dynamics better, his ordering system makes good sense.

    The systems don’t really map onto each other at all. As such, it’s just kind of a trivial nuisance that we need to define which system we’re using if there’s any ambiguity.

  69. @theasdgamer
    “I’ve observed a phenomenon and wondered if you had seen it, too. Two older girls, good friends, one of them (‘A’) throws the other (‘B’) at you and B isn’t all that excited about you, but A is. Maybe A thinks that B needs to be in a relationship and thinks that you are hot and a good match for B.”

    Usually this means Girl A wants to fuck you but is taken or otherwise unable to, so she throws Girl B at you hoping that she’ll fuck you and she can live vicariously through Girl B’s experience the next day. It’s actually pretty common for girls to be happy for their friend to hook up with a high-value guy, like hearing all about it the next day and/or imagining what it’s like is almost as good to them as fucking the guy themselves. Unfortuantely when they throw the girl at you it can create ASD or the girl might just not be interested in general and then it’s awkward.

    @Fred Flange
    “Maybe the way over this speedbump is to work a new variant on game to break up the group, then create a chance to isolate and escalate.”

    Ya that’s called Mystery Method lol That’s why I recently re-absorbed all the oldschool MM stuff, ’cause I predict Group Theory and being able to run mixed sets full of orbiters etc is going to be vital for landing the hot girls. Social circle game should work too, but it’s tricky to pull off social circle game when you have like 10+ years on the girls and their friends (I’m focused on the <25yo girls, not the 25+), like you either have to have social circles of younger people which can be daunting as an older guy, or somehow need an older crowd social circle to mingle with a younger crowd social circle and it's tough to find multiple older guys who aren't basically George Costanza.

    "he’s reporting on the girls who actually GO to the club or bar. The New York Mag piece suggests there’s a great many more who don’t."

    I'll be getting into daygame next year probably but ya, all my reports come from the nightclub/bar/pub/lounge scene. And the college scene, I'm in a university city and the VAST majority of girls who aren't ugly or socially retarded go out to the bars at SOME point…often the ones who aren't really the bar star type will just be dragged along by their friends because of peer pressure but stay relatively sober/shy or be the DD for the night etc.

    "Maybe they do group clones and Snapchat Storying in dorm rooms, lounges, or coffee joints."

    From what I can tell they do most of that at home. Why would they shower up and throw on clothes and makeup and shit just to go stare at their phone when they can do it from their bed.

    "The chodes do likewise, Calling of Duty instead of Snapchat storyboarding."

    This definitely happens. A huge number of boys have just checked out entirely because, well, what are their options? Become one of those evil manipulative PUAs? Follow the drill sergeants at the TRP telling them to lift when they just want to eat doritos and play xbox since Chad Thundercock will get the girls anyway? Plus they can Tinder or online date to interact with girls, nice and safe, no putting their egos on the line, and then rub one out to porn. I bet in the future we see a decrease in the number of boys at the bar and an increase in the number of girls, as more girls get jaded with the online dating stuff.

    "If you are going to do any sexting, don’t use the university’s servers, the proctors will be watching you, use your phone as the hotspot and go outside the network…"

    I'm not even going to get into how there's probably a retarded increase of selfie-taken child-porn out there now because of smartphones, like 14yo girls and shit. I don't even know how the law would deal with that. But like, almost every girl has a handful of sexy/naked selfies on her phone these days. I used to joke about it but now it's just normal par for the course.

    "and be sure to save the threads to show it’s consensual in case you become subject to Room 101 interrogation."

    Definitely do this. We advise a bunch of this. Take precautions and manage Buyer's Remorse. Buying her an Egg McMuffin for breakfast could keep you from being the next Mattress Girl victim.

    "No forward greeting without a proper introduction. Daisy, I’d like you to meet Mr. Jay Gatsby…"

    hmmm, I wonder if that would happen. A return to formal introductions and shit, to help weed out the betas. I haven't thought about that.

    @teddj4g
    "women tend to enjoy being “owned” by a man they perceives as high value"

    and @hank holiday
    "Very basic stuff. But it had such an effect on her I was thinking “Has any guy EVER hit on her well at all? I don’t think she’s ever experienced anything other than guys begging for her attention.”"

    Agreed. I actually don't think either gender likes this situation that's forming out there, like I don't think these girls WANT to take the lead like they are, but they're so surrounded by betas that won't take the lead that they have no CHOICE. And they wouldn't know how to let a man take the lead even if they ran into him because it's so outside of their experience. I'm noticing that girls seem to freeze up when I escalate hard on the first meetup, like they weren't expecting to have sex at ALL they thought we were just going to netflix and chill, and normally if a girl freezes up and leaves without having sex it's like okay she just wasn't into me whatever so at first I was like well I guess I'll never hear from them again. But pretty consistently so far (only a few times at this point, need more data points but this was pretty much NEVER the case in the old days), a day or two later the girl will text like FULLY wanting to come over again or making an excuse for us to hang out etc.

    It's like their brain is shellshocked by an alpha making actual moves on them because in their <25 years they've never experienced that before, they were expecting to hang out a few times and just beat around the bush with it until they decided to let the guy fuck them and that's what they're used to, so it's like they need to retreat and process what just happened, but instinctively their hindbrain loves it so they come back with twice as much interest in hanging out and experiencing that again.

    In the old days chicks came over knowing we're probably going to fuck. It's like it's coming as a complete shock to them that when you come over to a guy's apartment he's going to make moves on you, because that never happens with the thousands of beta chodes that orbit them but won't make a move.

    AGAIN I want to stress that a lot of this is keyboard jockey observation so far, I need way more data and to compare way more notes before I declare this shit all concrete, but I've seen enough consistency with it so far to perk my ears up and pay attention and look for patterns/explanations.

    @lh
    "The future “career” may be to be part of an “harem” at young age to get experience and later build one of your own to capitalize on it."

    It's interesting because the way I'm starting to adjust my game is starting to look a lot like an oldschool HB10s game would look: much more passive waiting on the other side to initiate texts and hangouts, and just collecting a shitload of them to make up for having to wait around. Actually attempting to chase them seems to lump me in with their hundreds of thousands of social media follower orbiters, and yet if I don't make enough of an emotional impact on them (aka need moar Julien game) they won't bother initiating/chasing because they have access to literally thousands of guys 24/7 that are all way better looking have more money etc than me (which is also why I stress game, because even if you get looks and money you're just another guy in that huge herd of guys who all look as good and have as much money as you).

    Personally I don't like it, I like pro-active game where I control when and who comes over and can schedule my week around it and like I say I think girls instinctively like it better that way too even if they've never experienced it before etc, but I'm just experimenting going with the flow right now to see where this rabbithole leads.

    @CaveClown
    "I’ve thought about how I would be with women if I end up single (or now as much as I can with the wife), and I guess that would be “I will be good to them for as long as they are good to me, and I will not compromise my frame, MPO, mission, or financials to do so”"

    Congrats on handling your shit. And this attitude, ideally, is what more and more men will have in the future. That's why I say TRP/MRA/Manosphere/PUA/MGTOW, we all have the same end goal in common: men focusing on themselves, their happiness, and their mission, with properly screened women being allowed to tag along for the ride if they bring value to the table and 100% on the man's terms with no legal contracts or obligations etc.

    @hank holiday
    "So I think my gut was right there."

    Ya, I'm getting a lot of bonus points for cold approaching, espeically with the really hot girls. My way of describing it is this:

    There's two rooms, in the LEFT room the guys cold approach and in the RIGHT room everyone texts/social medias/tinders. Before online dating, women were all in the Left room and cold approach was abundant and women were jaded by it. Then online dating happened and all the hot girls went to the Right room because the guys cold approaching were lame and they hoped they'd meet higher quality men on this new online dating scene where they had all these options to screen guys out and shit. That's when I got into it and like, originally online dating was full of hot college chicks who just wanted to party and have fun and bang. Then all the lame guys in the Left room heard they can get laid by hot girls online just with some text messages instead of having to cold approach so they swarmed the Right room and scared off the hot girls…and then the ugly girls heard they could get laid by tons of guys in the Right room so they swarmed in and now online has become a wasteland of single moms and fatties and old chicks and damaged goods and shit.

    Now those hot girls seem to have run back to the Left room, and everyone else is staying in the Right room because for the girls they have a ton of selection (lots of good-looking rich guys who are just scared to cold approach and will happily bang a 6) and the guys are getting laid enough without having to put their balls on the line doing scary cold approach, and it's like I walked by the doorway and noticed "hmm, there's all these hot girls in this other room." and walked in. And those girls are now jaded and bored by the texting and online dating scene and are either jonesing for an alpha who cold approaches them like they used to have, or if they're <25yo they're jonesing for that cold approach they see in Ryan Gosling movies and shit, because these girls inherently know, after getting swarmed by lame guys in that Right room, that the only guys that can really handle dating/fucking them and are actually attractive to them are the guys with the balls to come into that non-texting room and cold approach them.

    That's the best way I can describe it so far lol It's at the point where I may just full out retire my text and day2 game, which were killer but seem either unneccessary (since they'll just come over instead of go on a day2 in public), obsolete (they set the schedule now because of their abundance), or value-lowering (texting ending up lumping me in with the thousands of orbiters texting her), in 2015.

    "So it really does seem like no one ever says “no” to girls anymore, so when you do it really stands out."

    This. I think it's why Julien's game is blowing girls' minds, a lot of his game is about disqualifying them and rejecting them. I'm going to be incorporating more of it into my style, I'm planning to try telling girls I can't give them my number and can't come home with them etc to see what happens (after DHV'ing hard and getting them to invest of course). Like right now I'm not initiating conversations with any girls in my phone, to see what happens if I just go radio silent on all of them and wait for them to initiate/invest. So far the ones that I had solid emotional impact with keep finding ways to initiate retarded pointless conversations (which I semi-ignore and cut short etc back to laconic style texting from the old days lol I'm thinking of throwing in a phone call, like when they text me just call them on voice and see what happens), and the ones where I didn't have much emotional impact just won't ever text me (even though before this they would respond almost immediately whenever I initiated texts).

    "I’ve got some improv clubs I am going to go to"

    Good stuff, I haven't gone to one before but a LOT of PUAs do them.

    @redlight
    "Owning a boyfriend or husband limits experiences. Even if they get married to have kids, after they popped out a couple, it’s Eat Pray Love to get back on that experience bandwagon. What PUA offers them is enjoyable experiences with no ownership."

    I can't disagree with anything you said in that post. There seems to be, at least on the female side, a large focus on just "experiencing good feels", like their whole life is based around that which I mean, makes sense now that they all have their own income and thousands of orbiters on social media lined up to just hand them money and offer them experiences like vacations or driving their expensive cars or partying at their fancy rooftop condo etc etc We basically gave kids in a candy store and unlimited bank account and are surprised when they're not rationing themselves so their stomach isn't too full for a healthy dinner lol

    @Forge the Sky
    "As such, it’s just kind of a trivial nuisance that we need to define which system we’re using if there’s any ambiguity."

    Ya, in the PUA community we don't really care about nailing down all these tiny nuances the Manosphere/Rollo are focused on…all we need guys to understand is that "some shit makes girls want to fuck you and some shit makes them repulsed by you" and that's enough to get them started learning how to be the Alpha Fucks lol We don't need definitions of Omegas or to really narrow down "is this behavior Alpha?? Did I revert to Beta for 6.4 minutes when I used this slightly different tonality? Am I still Alpha if another Alpha walks in??" Like, none of that really matters for teaching guys how to get their dicks wet, it's more an interesting discussion and knowledge-seeking thing (which I love, which is why I read this stuff).

  70. @asd

    Yes because if I were looking for validation this would be the obvious place to come. 🤔

    @teddj4g

    Definitely. The term ownership probably makes some uncomfortable. I don’t assign it connotations of control or abuse. Yes hot.

  71. No. Stop that. What do you think you are doing here? This is no 60+ lonely hearts party in case you were wondering. Rollo told you what is expected. Your time is running.

  72. @ LM

    Getting tired of your position? Need to shake things up? Try something new? So where to go from here…the “I’m soaking in the tub” has been done to death…I’m thinking…altitude…how are you at climbing trees?

  73. LM – uncomfortable doesn’t always equal a negative experience. 😉

    And ownership certainly doesn’t imply abuse. I own my car, and I’d be a moron to abuse it since it’ll break down and cost me money.

    But ya know what is tragically funny to me? As I said, most women want that feeling of being “owned” by a high value man. However, our current society seems to do everything it can to teach women to NEVER submit to a man, while at the same time doing everything it can to make men overall less appealing.

    And now I have Alanis Morissette “Ironic” stuck in my head. That sucks…

  74. Being new to the ‘Sphere, (40 yrs old, n-80ish) I can say in retrospect I hate too see beta behaviors I did so clearly. Predictable results for those couple instances, loss of frame in LTR’s. one-iteis.

  75. CaveClown – “I abuse my car fairly regularly, trust me…it likes it.”

    LOL I had a truck I drove exactly the same way. When I started treating it gentler, it fell apart.

    Abuse is one of those subjective kinda things. I suppose part of the compatibility trick between men and women is finding someone that enjoys the kind of abuse you like dishing out. Or, at this point, I’d advise men just broadcast their abusive tendencies and see what comes sniffing. 😛

  76. LM – for me cars and women have a lot in common
    1. they are both complicated machines with many moving parts
    2. I love the way some of them are curved
    3. if you treat them right, they’ll purr and roar for you
    4. ALWAYS check the oil level before you take them for a hard drive
    5. The harder you drive them, the hotter they get

    OK I’m done.

  77. @ tedd, cave, lm

    “I abuse my car fairly regularly, trust me…it likes it.”

    “for me cars and women have a lot in common”

    I “abuse” my woman fairly regularly, trust me…she likes it.

  78. Rollo,
    “Roosh has fucked himself. He’s written a couple of posts about how he doesn’t believe men’s SMV peaks around 36-37 because he’s done absolutely nothing in the last 10 years to maximize his male potential. So naturally the good ole days for a domain dependent guy like himself was back around 27 when he could best capitalize on Game and the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy.”

    Moron Roosh thought he was smart on focusing his life on game only to get poon ,without having the mental point of origin , he thought, he has all the time to do nothing but gaming for poon, he thought he’d be young forever, don’t forget he always complained of being tired on playing the CLOWN game, so I wonder if he was ever able to be or play the authentic alpha or understand women.

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