Don’t Hate the Beta

beta_hate

A common refrain I hear from even some well meaning Red Pill aware men is that there is some degree of disdain for the “Beta” man in the sphere. There’s not so much a rejection of apparent Red Pill truths as there is a schoolyard mentality when it comes to characterizing a guy as Alpha or Beta. This is where where a lot of guys turn themselves off to the Red Pill in a community sense.

In a way I suppose it becomes reminiscent of guys having been bullied in their formative years by the guys they now have a mental image of being archetypically “Alpha”. So it follows that concepts like AMOGing or running a ‘Boyfriend Destroyer’ script is distasteful; a lot of men, that is to say the 80%+ Beta men, have likely experienced this disqualification in direct or indirect ways in their youth. Sometimes that may simply be a girl he had his ONEitis sights set on opting for a more Alpha guy after telling him she wasn’t ready for a relationship, or it may be a more direct experience of having sand metaphorically kicked in his face.

Thus it becomes a matter of course to entirely dismiss the nuts & bolts understanding of how abstracts like Alpha and Beta are used in the sphere. The default understanding goes something like this, “Those Red Pillers just hate on Betas to build themselves up” or some other version of this where the Red Pill becomes a Machiavellian free for all at the expense of other, ‘lesser’, men.

It’s either this or the abstractions of Alpha and Beta are reduced to absurd binary interpretations; Alphas become ridiculous ‘douchebag’ parodies and Betas become pathetic, simpering doormats for the world to tread upon. In either case the purpose of reducing these abstracts as such is an effort in dismissing the uncomfortable, as well as evidently observable qualities and truths of the intersexual environment that plays out around us.

For the record I think it’s important for Red Pill men to remain as objective and disinvested from making qualitative assumptions about what constitutes the Alpha and Beta abstractions. I don’t hate, pity or resent Beta men. Neither do I embrace the idea that Alpha archetypes as necessarily positive or negative. For the moment however, I’m going to focus on Beta men.

The Presumption of Control

As I mentioned above, one of the primary dismissals men have when they encounter Red Pill thought is to blow it off because “it’s all just a bunch of hating on Betas.” And that presumption comes only if a guy is willing to consider the abstracts of Alpha and Beta in the first place – most simply don’t want to recognize specific ‘statuses’ or defining characteristics of men or women, and just fall back on the “all is relative, all is subjective” mindset they’ve been conditioned to. People are People, there is no human “nature” so there is no male or female “nature”.

But for the guy who at least accepts the idea of human natures, I can certainly understand the reservations of men whose identities were conditioned to a more Beta role. There’s not much positive to characterize a Beta mindset with beyond the utility that conditioning serves to society and women’s sexual strategy. Betas do in fact get laid; the terms on which, and how their sexuality fits their utilitarian role in women’s Hypergamous plan is the real question.

I was recently asked if I thought Beta men employing Beta Game was a successful strategy in the larger scheme of things. If success means that Beta Game will get him laid, I’m incredulous about it. The presumption is that the Beta man employing that ‘game’ is in some way directing and controlling the outcome of his ‘success’. I’d argue that what he believes is ‘game’ is simply his utility to a woman coming into an optimal window for her necessity of him. So is his ‘strategy’ really successful, or is he simply the best ‘Plan B‘ a woman has available to her while her own SMV decays to the point where he’s her best option?

Is that Beta really in control? Or is he simply situationally useful?

I think a lot of what guys new to the manosphere perceive as Beta hate is simply the presumption of control they believe they should be able to exercise with women. After having been told for the the better part of their lives that the more accommodating and identifying with women they are will lead to them being accepted by women it’s a presumption that this is some means of socially acceptable control for them.

It’s very galling to have men place fault on a guy for things he knows are out of his control. I fully understand the angst and frustration that leads to things like Beta Uprising and men frustrated with intersexual dynamics taking it out on the whole of society before they swallow a bullet themselves.

It essentially amounts to victim blaming; Betas are hapless and hopeless mules brainwashed and indentured to serve not just the Feminine Imperative (which would be galling enough), but also to have the pains and strivings that society demands of them be rewarded with women’s genuine intimate interests focusing on Alpha men.

That sucks.

PUAs telling a guy it’s on him as to why women are boring to him, or uninterested in him sexually, only reinforces that angst. It’s like a pastor telling you that if you’d only prayed harder or more earnestly God would have cured your Mom of cancer. So they hate the Alpha, they hate the PUA, they hate the hotchickswithdouchebags guy, but they also hate women and the social/biological mechanics of the position they’re placed in. It presumes a control that he believes he’s never had, nor ever will.

So there comes a point where that Beta wants, sometimes adamantly insists, for his own burden of performance to be replaced, or at least handicapped, by a woman meeting him half way. This want is rooted in his Blue Pill presumption that people are people and in the equalist notion that women’s hindbrains can (willingly) be overridden when it comes to arousal, attraction and intersexual dynamics. Again, if there is no human nature it should stand to reason that a woman could potentially choose that Beta for all the reasons he’s been conditioned to believe she should choose him for. If there is a female nature, and that nature follows (with some degree of consistency) Red Pill aware truths, then his frustrations are founded on his own lack.

But these guys aren’t Blue Pill oblivious men, they are Red Pill aware. They see the truth and that leads to their awakening to the cruel reality that they’re in. So when these guys are put into that place they have a few choices: Snap and take out themselves and as many others as they can, go isolationist MGTOW and retreat to minimal societal investment, go MRA and impotently try to enact legislation that they think will even the social playing filed from the top down, or they can take a realistic look at themselves and reinvent themselves to better play the Game.

The Burden of Fault

Whether it’s fair or not, by virtue of being a man, you’re going to have to accept your burden of performance. That burden includes your liability of accepting fault even for things that aren’t your fault per se. It’s not your fault that you were born and raised into a feminine-primary social order that conditioned you to be an accommodating utility for it – but irrespective of that, you will be held liable for not complying with it or resisting it. You are a man, you will always be accountable.

Is that fucked up? Yes. So with that in mind it is up to you as a Red Pill aware Man to decide for yourself what is worth your investment. Yes my friend, women can be amazing, interesting vivacious and fun, but they can also be fucked up and stupid and absolutely not worth your time, money and effort. It isn’t your fault they are the way they are, but it is your fault for investing yourself in something you’re not enjoying or profiting by.

With all of the railing against women not being worthwhile one would think that would prompt these men to being indifferent to women – but they aren’t. Even the most ardent MGTOW and hapless Beta Red Pill denier still wants women; he simply wants her in his context and his frame on his terms – and to genuinely want to be a part of all that. There’s nothing wrong with this desire, this is precisely what I advise with regards to Frame control, but the disconnect comes in how men go about establishing a Frame women want to be a part of.

Get Out There

I may debate with other men’s takes on how the importance of looks plays in to a man’s overall Game and appeal, but one thing I won’t argue with is the importance of men putting themselves out there and into situations that will most certainly take them out of their comfort zones.

For almost 20 years I have made a living doing exactly this. I have worked in gaming, liquor and brand development ventures that have put me into venues that range from Goth/Alternative/Hipster sets to LGBT events, to mixing with men and women who have the type of wealth that most people don’t even know exists. My career, family and personal life has been my Red Pill classroom and laboratory for all this, and in all of these contexts I have found a way to enjoy myself and/or learn from these interactions.

One reason I will never look to writing Red Pill books as a career option is because it would remove me from the very source of my observations. Living it is the only way keep learning from it. On my own time, I would very likely prefer to lock myself in my studio and paint or sculpt, or to create something new to work into a brand, often to the exclusion of my wife and family and the many friends I have. I’m a very social guy, but I would probably not feel compelled to head off to a night club or any of the events I involve myself in professionally on a weekly basis.

When I’m doing a promo, I know I’m not going to hook up, so I find enjoyment in watching and learning from what I see going on around me. I can’t drink when I’m on a promo or doing a trade show, so even that can’t be a source enjoyment. So why fucking do it right? I make money at it, and it beats living in a cubicle, but I’d much rather be creating new things, new brands, new ideas than interacting with half-buzzed hipsters who think they’re too cool to be there or obnoxious 40 something divorcés ‘sampling’ vodka and hoping to drink their spinsterhood away.

I enjoy what I do and it helps me help other guys. I put myself out in the wild because it’s part of my job(s), but I honestly enjoy interacting with even the dullards and the drunks. It’s what I invest myself in. That may sound like torture to you, but it’s really contextual. I have friends I’ve made at underground Goth events who would blanch at the thought of what I do at a golf tournament. I’m not saying you need to be a social chameleon, but understand that your social education will always be domain dependent if you stay in the settings that make you the most comfortable.

Don’t Hate the Beta

As I mentioned earlier, I don’t hate Beta men. For a long time in my Blue Pill past I was one of them, and I can fully understand the want to mischaracterize an Alpha mindset in order to preserve a sense of self-worth. Beta men don’t warrant pity or disgust, but rather they need a tough harsh awakening to the reality of the situation they find themselves in.

I don’t think Beta men are hopeless, but they will remain in a state of hopelessness so long as they subscribe to a want of making things easier for their condition rather than improving themselves to better play the Game. That’s hard to hear for most Beta men and I understand the protective need for denial in this, but I know of very few Red Pill men who really despise Beta or Blue Pill men. They despise his indentured state, they despise his willful obliviousness to his conditioned uses. They despise the lengths to which Blue Pill men will go in their hope to be appreciated by the system that made them what they are.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

765 comments on “Don’t Hate the Beta

  1. One of my maxims (I suppose someday I should collect and number them):

    A man can best judge the looks of a woman when she is asleep.
    A woman can best judge the looks of a man when he’s chopping wood.

    What a man means by looks is not what a woman means by “looks.” A man’s burden of performance is part of his looks.

    Every male model you’ve never heard of looks physically better than George Clooney or Harrison Ford, and women hold them in the top ranks for looks.

    How does Harrison Ford look to a woman?:

    “I know.”

  2. You can say with almost total confidence that a guy with below average looks, or even average looks, working in McDonald’s in the lowest grade position, will have a hard time attracting women and it will get harder the older he gets and they get. I don’t see how anyone can possibly deny this.

    so if average dude went out tonight to a club, he would have a hard time attracting women, since, whey they asked, he would tell them he is working at McD in the lowest grade position? What about if he was the lead singer of a band playing at the club tonight, a sideline that actually costs him more than it makes, same thing? What about if he is very social with others, the life of the party, able to be witting, funny, clever, and charming, is he still toast due to his job?

  3. He probably wouldn’t have got a wife at all if he was an average computer programmer.

    Ridiculous. Plenty of average computer programmers got married in the 1980’s. So much for your babble about money.

    As he’s one of the richest men on the planet, sooner or later it was obvious that someone would settle for him.

    Wait, I thought that money was the magic pull for hot women?

    He was born with massive disadvantages because he is just not attractive. There is nothing anyone can say or do that is going to change that. He did the best thing for himself to have a fulfilling life. Of course he is not going to be able to compete with men who are far more attractive, there is nothing he can do about it.

    Did you bother to look at any of the vids YaReally has posted? Those men are also avarge looking.

    Again, it is staggering to me that people wouldn’t realise this.

    It’s staggering to me that you are so dedicated to your self-defeating mindset.

  4. “He was born with massive disadvantages . . .”

    Yeah, being born from a long line of lawyers and major bank presidents. Somebody please disadvantage me.

    Gates married exactly the sort of woman he expected to marry when he was still a college kid. He settled for his social paradigm instead of using his improved status to lever himself up.

  5. Bill gates is an example of under achieving in my opinion.

    Richest man in the world? I’d be rollin’ in bitches.

    But, that just shows a limiting belief of mine too.

  6. ” You can say with almost total confidence that a guy with below average looks, or even average looks, working in McDonald’s in the lowest grade position, will have a hard time attracting women and it will get harder the older he gets and they get. I don’t see how anyone can possibly deny this.”

    Watch me deny this: I completely deny that statement.

    True story ahead.

    I worked at Mickey D’s while in high school and while in college.

    I even worked at Dunkin Donuts as my second job while in college. I was never hungry.

    On more than one occasion I met chicks at these establishments. I’d wave at them from the fry machine and hit on them while making shakes.

    The best was when girls from school would show up at closing time looking to “hang out” because they were ” bored “. I kept a school towel in my car and it wasn’t because I sweated.

    There are more important things to women/girls than your ” position “.

    Status. Not the pussy moistener you may think it is.

    It’s not necessarily harder to attract women with age. That may come as a blow to you…breathe it in, you’ll be okay. In fact, I test it out weekly, just for my amusement. C’mon man, open your eyes and ears.

  7. “It’s not necessarily harder to attract women with age.”

    In fact, if you are an older man it becomes considerably easier to attract women who are attracted to older men. Go figure. Even if the pool does shrink a bit, the drive to self-qualify grows.

  8. The best was when girls from school would show up at closing time looking to “hang out” because they were ” bored “. I kept a school towel in my car and it wasn’t because I sweated.

    Might be a clue here for those with daughters, by the way…keep them busy, not “bored”, etc.

  9. A friend of mine is very wealthy , major league beta provider, raised his pride and joy son to be another beta, father bought son a condo + Audi, son flashes his wealth when meeting girls, son fell in love with a naughty girl upon his first BJ, son takes the naughty girl to balling, son goes down on the ground to show her he can do 80 push ups, naughty girl dumps him and his money, son is devastated, son keep asking why she dumped me, son say to himself : I have money and nice car and can do 80 push ups too, and she dumped me?. Son asked naughty girl why she dumped him , naughty girl told him : it was the 80 push ups + she told him money isn’t everything.
    Ps,
    True Story, heard it this morning. Father tells him : Don’t worry junior, you are rich and lots of girls would love to go out with you.
    Ps2,
    Got to give the naughty girl a credit, there is no substitute for ” TINGLES”.

  10. @redlight
    “I don’t see why YaReally has to waste his time when these idiots show up.”

    I almost wrote a reply and then was just like meh lol. This is why I write all those pages about the subject though, because so many guys are DYING to hamster rationalize everything into supporting their fucked up world view like this guy that if you give them even an inch they’ll use it as an excuse to stay Blue/Purple Pill and keep their victim complex because being able to blame not winning the lottery for why you’re not rich is a lot easier than admitting you just didn’t put in the work, time, and effort that other people did to get there.

    New one, and one of my new favorites on the subject (though at 5:20 I would add “you run out of things to say and have bad body language, weak voice tonality, can’t hold eye-contact etc” for the Rational Male crowd which is what he means and PUAs know he means that but some of the guys here are more hellbent on the specifics lol so he means that you have bad subcomms, not just that you stop talking):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D52YV6dL8IM

    I’m mid-30s, chubby, dress in plain clothes (I wear a $10 t-shirt), have no money, and pulled a 21yo from a kiddie nightclub this weekend while sober (with the approval of her friend who left her there with me, also my girl bought me a drink and paid for our cab and was the one who told me “you’re coming over after right?” “we’re going to my place after” “I’m hungry…(aka extract me)” etc). Chick is a minor local social media celeb with a few hundred thousand followers, her phone was literally like 4 pages of new message notifications when she pulled it out to show me her pics and she doesn’t even read like 99% of them because it’s so normalized to her to be bombarded with validation now lol She was a cool chick though, a lot of down-to-earth Red Pill perspectives about her looks and minor fame and she volunteered the observation that her Likes mean nothing and was annoyed when she posted a pic and a huge flood of Likes instantly appeared because she’s feeling the pressure of everyone worshipping her and thinking she’s perfect and being stuck in a Yes Man bubble where no one will call her out when she’s misbehaving or wrong and all that psychological conflict that someone in that position suffers, and yet, as a chick she can’t help but keep taking note of her Likes because it’s still a little dopamine/validation hit. It’s like watching someone who’s addicted to heroin keep coming back to it even though they verbalize that they want to quit.

    The world of the <25yo crowd has definitely changed since 2005 when I started in the game and it's notably affected their overall mindsets…they have an abundance mentality that's off the charts and has probably never existed in history on this large a scale. Got a lot of thoughts on this 2015 era and what it's doing and how to optimally game in it but I need to collect more data and compare experiences with other guys and shit before I say anything conclusive.

    The TL;DR of my observations so far, for maximum odds for the average guy to get the 25yo crowd but it’s not as pronounced…ie – that 30+yo chick has at some point been cold approached so it’s not as magical special and she’s only had social media and texting for like 5-10 years, but a 21yo in 2015 has possibly literally never been competently cold-approached and feels like she just walked into a Ryan Gosling movie if it happens (again the chick from this weekend was complaining about how no one meets in person anymore everyone just has their head in their phones, which again goes back to what I was saying in that other thread:

    http://therationalmale.com/2015/11/10/the-purple-pill/comment-page-2/#comment-127217

    …about the really hot girls actually looking around the room receptive to being approached instead of burying their noses in their phones), and she’s been raised on social media and texting as a normalized part of her life so there seem to be differences.

    I’m even noticing differences in their concepts of a Day2, ie – going for drinks in public incase you’re a murderer VS just immediately coming over to netflix & chill (which is insane and dangerous). A 30+yo chick knows that some guys could be psycho murderers and prefer meeting in public first because that’s what they grew up with, but these <25yo chicks seem to be cool with just going right over to a guy's apartment with no public day2 to hang out which blows my fucking mind but my theory so far is that it could be because they're so surrounded by asexual beta chodes in this feminized society who are scared to make any kind of a move that they literally aren't even afraid of being alone with a guy because they don't expect him to be any kind of a sexual threat (except for the psycho loud feminist minorities that see rape around every corner on Jezebel lol)…like guys are so pussy to make a move and that's all these girls have experienced so it's almost not even in their reality that going to a guy's apartment to "netflix & chill" isn't a smart idea, and I think that same thing has affected some other dynamics as well.

    But again I need more data on this, a buddy and I are just seeing bits and pieces of a pattern and extrapolating based on logic right now as we try to get ahead of the curve and adapt our game to these changes. From what I can tell the stuff RSDJulien teaches is the forefront of banging the <25yo crowd right now, with RSDTyler a close second, which makes sense because they're the ones out there hammering it out every night around the world.

    This seems like it will also have overall societal consequences because I think the 20% of men fuck 80% of the women divide is going to become more like 5% of the men fuck 95% of the women and that's going to create a lot more guys like Tim up above and we've seen the end result of that mindset. From what I'm seeing lately I literally have no idea how the average Blue Pill guy is getting laid in 2015, like the odds are stacked so hard against him because of social media if he doesn't make an effort to learn some game that I can't even imagine how he would pull it off except for just sheer blind luck of being in the right place at the right time.

  11. @whoever said this silly shit
    “working in McDonald’s in the lowest grade position”

    One of the original oldschool community lines was telling girls you work at taco bell and are hoping to be promoted to head fry chef or some shit, can’t remember it exactly. Any guy who thinks his job matters should spend 6-12 months sarging and telling girls he works in the lowest value job he can think of, to find out how little it matters. I purposely tell girls I do a very low value boring low-paying job just because it’s funny to me that they’ll fuck me despite that (plus it helps avoid being put in the Provider category, which results in them putting out faster because they generally treat a Lover and Provider differently).

    In the PUA community we make guys go out without their safety nets once they get to like Intermediate/Advanced stage. Like if you’re attached to your hair looking nice, go out with it messy for a few months, if you have a pre-game routine like drinking and shit, go out without doing that routine for a few months, if you always mention your high-value job start telling girls you have a low-value job etc etc.

    Destroying your comfort zones:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RcAZF8yhS8

    REAL value to women, and how to build it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkKURdjtIQ

    1. http://therationalmale.com/2014/11/14/mental-point-of-origin/

      I’ve mentioned before, the most memorable sex I’ve had has been when I was flat broke (mostly). It didn’t matter that I lived in a 2 room studio in North Hollywood or had beer and mac & cheese in the fridge – I got laid and I had women come to me for it.

      It didn’t take my doing anything for a woman to get laid or hold her interest. All I did was make myself my mental point of origin. It’s when I started putting women as a goal, making them into more than just a source of enjoyment, that I transferred that mental point of origin to her and I became the necessitous one.

  12. The only thing more detrimental to a male than testicular cancer or heart disease is a white knight. Alpha males are the most ignorant of white knights. Why? Because they think their sex appeal is the most important aspect of living. There is much to despise and loath regarding these supposed alpha males.

    Please God – let there be a disease that wipes out alpha males and their female alpha-female counterparts. Please God, spare the future of of the world alpha males and females. Most of society hates them to death. Give us a break, God.

  13. kfg

    Preach it brother.

    Popular opinion is to belittle or make fun of older men, but my experience has been much different, even though I have no real interest in much younger chicks…right now.

    And there are much more women attracted to ” older ” men than I would’ve thought possible. And it’s not just the Sugar Daddy syndrome either. : )

    A couple of weeks ago I went to the market 10 minutes before the midnight closing. I was trying to rush in and get out. I was wearing sweats, sneakers ( Jordans given to me by a goddaughter…) and a 20 year old weathered bomber jacket. I’ve noticed that the market can be like a bar at last call as far as chicks are concerned.

    There was a very sexy Asian chick, I’m guessing Pilipino, getting OJ the same as me. She spoke first and got right up on me. She was so cute I had to chat her up a little. She had to be mid 20’s, tiny with cantaloupe tits quite visible below her plunging V-neck. Anyway, the ” store is closing now ” announcement came over the loudspeaker, so I headed to the registers and she told me to wait up. So I’m trying to discern…stripper, hooker or regular horny chick.

    So we’re walking out and she’s just chatting up a storm and laughing. She says that she had a joint and got the munchies and didn’t have any food at home because she’s been in Michigan for business and she was toast when she got home and blah, blah, blah….

    She stands beside a gorgeous BMW 750 and clicks the door open and asks if ” I smoke “. I decline. Then she makes some crack about pot being good for glaucoma and leans on me laughing hysterically. Bitch…lol. So since she hit me with the glaucoma line, I told her I heard pot makes anal easier. She howled.

    I was trying to jet but she was really cute and bubbly and the encounter was fun. So she said something like ” come with me and let’s bake, I’m not a serial killer I promise..”.

    My take? She was a worker who spent too much time flying around making coin. Evidently home alone looking for a little company, someone to get high with, but her eyes and body language was saying ” get high and accidently fuck a stranger “.

    I decline again, give her a hug, boobs are implants but very nice.

    There are younger women who find older men non-threatening in some way and attractive at the same time. I guess the word I’m looking for is ” safe ” ( until it’s time for anal, that is…lol) . Young chicks are more open, flirty and tactile in my experience, and they will fuck just like that *snaps fingers*. They look for approval more often than not.

    So guys who are trying to figure this shit out, money, age, status, even looks are not the determining factor, not always in every instance. Wrap your head around it and accept it because it’s real.

  14. “…This seems like it will also have overall societal consequences because I think the 20% of men fuck 80% of the women divide is going to become more like 5% of the men fuck 95% of the women…”

    Holy fuckin’ shit.

    Please Lawd, say it ain’t so!

  15. ” The only thing more detrimental to a male than testicular cancer or heart disease is a white knight. Alpha males are the most ignorant of white knights. Why? Because they think their sex appeal is the most important aspect of living. There is much to despise and loath regarding these supposed alpha males.

    Please God – let there be a disease that wipes out alpha males and their female alpha-female counterparts. Please God, spare the future of of the world alpha males and females. Most of society hates them to death. Give us a break, God.”

    Ladies and Gentlemen give Tim a big round of applause!

    I shouldn’t.

    I really shouldn’t.

    But I got a 50 lb. bag of Purina Troll Chow on sale.

    Sex appeal isn’t the most important aspect of living, but knowing how to develop it and use it to one’s benefit is fucking awesome.

    What’s up with all of the protestations and hate? You sound like some dude came in all of your girlfriends holes and now she needs ” space “.

    God will not grant your wish because he is the ” Alpha “. You sound like God’s court jester.

    Anyway, you complain like a chick. PMS is real, huh?

  16. “As such most males being raised are told information which is effectively self-destructive to their SMV.”

    Such as? Serious question from someone new to this. Thanks.

  17. btw the 21yo didn’t even ask my age. And I don’t look like I’m in my 20s lol I would stop going to this kiddie nightclub but I keep ending up making out with <25yo's there. An older man with a solid "oak tree" frame/dominance with a sexual undertone is a fantasy for most of them, especially being surrounded by weak-framed "squirrel" asexual younger guys all through their lives up till then.

  18. Gates was not a programmer and I’d not choose the term “underachiever” for “he’s not banging the quality of chicks he could”. If he would all be about banging hot chicks, he’d probably not be the person doing the things he does.
    Newton, Tesla, Kant, etc. all died as virgins, so thank you history for “underachievers”.

  19. Nice goalpost shift, bnon. Way to not stick to the topic, too.

    PS: If you want to discuss what Bill Gates accomplished you can start with where DOS 1.0 came from…

  20. Tim
    “Please God – let there be a disease that wipes out alpha males and their female alpha-female counterparts. Please God, spare the future of of the world alpha males and females. Most of society hates them to death. Give us a break, God”

    Tim, that is a lot to ask God for , I mean, how about ask God for one thing instead of 10 things, how about ask God to send you one woman? The probabilities of God accepting one wish is much achievable, no?

  21. If 80% of men are betas, then it stands to reason that most inventions and such would come from betas.

    None of that helps me get my dick wet.

    What does this 5% of men that will be banging the chicks look like? Is it still looks, money, game…pick two?

    If only 5% are in the game, won’t most chicks not get laid than? Are they really content with the social media validation instead of real flesh and blood men?

  22. A “real man”, an “alpha male”, is a man that can be happy with himself devoid of any female approval or satisfaction. An alpha male see’s through the manipulation and brainwashing that so commonly destroys men. A real man doesn’t need a woman to boost his self-esteem and ego. A real man rejects the notion of female totalitarianism. A real man can see through the countless lies shown and told to him through each second of the day. White knights (alpha males) and feminists are men’s worst enemies.

    “Alpha is situational. Alpha is relative. Alpha is not absolute.”

  23. @theasdgamer

    Are women not allowed here? I’m not trolling, I’m seriously interested in understanding where we are going wrong in how boys are being raised and since I’m a woman obviously I don’t have that frame of reference.

  24. SJF –

    “Women, femininity and their potential as mates can be a life force of positive input into a male’s life if you can utilize them as such ”

    But of course. And the Detroit Lions can win the Super Bowl if they build the best team and execute.

    In the main, in today’s America, most women are a life-sapping force to most men. Even for natural alphas. Sure, lightning can strike, and camels can pass through eyes of needles. But how much would one wager on the Lions hoisting the Lombardi in February 2017? For me, about the same sum as I’d invest in my next LTR with an american woman.

  25. “A “real man”, an “alpha male”, is a man that can be happy with himself devoid of any female approval or satisfaction”

    This?…yes.

    The rest of your comment?….no.

    How can you say this and then say alphas are white knights?

    Contradiction…

    Read what you write, then push post.

  26. It’s cute how nerds pop up from time to time, insisting that their definitions of words are the Only True Definitions. Because arguing about definitions is infinitely more entertaining to nerds than, say, having a decent time with a woman.

    Echoing another poster, I say: empty your cup. Can’t learn anything as long as you can’t admit there’s something you don’t know.

    For some reason, even without the presence of Rollo’s girl groupies, the odor of estrogen is very strong today in the blog.

    Seems to me, more like some cosplayers stumbled in the door.

  27. @ LM

    Not for me to say who’s allowed here, but women comment here occasionally.

    Boys are being taught to pedestalize woman and seek “true love” instead of playing the field and treating girls like bratty kid sisters who are to be teased and not taken seriously.

    Have you read Rollo’s old posts? I recommend doing that.

  28. “Tim, that is a lot to ask God for , I mean, how about ask God for one thing instead of 10 things, how about ask God to send you one woman? The probabilities of God accepting one wish is much achievable, no?

    Keyser – God, if he exists, is too busy for my demands. I didn’t really want anything from God. I’m pretty self sufficient. If God does exist, then all I want to say to him is “thanks”. “Thanks for my life – God.” If God exists, then my life is a result of His existence. If God doesn’t’ exist, then my life is a random act of randomness. Did a woman give me life – or did God?

    Tell me, Keyser. In whom do you believe?

  29. Tell me, Keyser. In whom do you believe?

    Keep moving those goalposts all over the place, you’ll break something. Just saying.

  30. How’s about a little inconvenient truth and honesty no anti-feminist, feminist, mangina or white knight would care to hear? What follows is the stuff that gets me banned from AVFM and all other men’s rights and MGTOW sites combined. Hopefully, I get banned here, too.

    If we just look at feminists as “women gone amuck”, we’re missing the true point. Women haven’t gone amuck – they’re just doing what women do.

    It’s horrible to see the men in this thread so easily manipulated by white knights, gynocentrists and the like.

    Men have been manipulated and exploited by women for centuries. Women expect men to bring more to the table than women do financially and physically – or they’re not “marriageable”; hence the provider and protector role with which men have been sadistically saddled.

    This sexist and exploitative role for men was socially induced and enforced by women upon men as well as by other men – meaning that society held men up to provider/protector role/standard to be considered marriageable or as a candidate for decent employment. What’s the most common theme on the internet for men and marriage these days? The lack of “marriageable men”. The message is – if you can’t provide money to women – as a man – you have no worth.

    “Traditional”, in the context of relationships between men and women, is a term used to describe the financial, legal, physical, spiritual and psychological exploitation of men by women.

    “Chivalry” is the social manipulation of men’s ego and sense of worth for purposes of encouraging men to sacrifice for women – even if the sacrifice means men’s deaths. Chivalry is gynocentrism and a women first mindset – AKA male disposability.

    Fortunately, marriage rates are dropping the globe over and women are having to learn to fend for themselves. For every woman that opts out of marriage, another man is saved from the life destruction of divorce. To counter men’s escape from this most misandric of institutions, many nations are now enabling de facto marriage – which essentially forces marriage upon men after X number of months of cohabitation and gives girlfriends the rights to alimony and asset division should their boyfriends dump them. In the UK – it’s called the Cohabitation Rights Bill.

    Rape culture is the latest of the hypergynocentric (feminist) inventions. Both progressives and conservatives can get behind ‘affirmative consent’ because it demonizes men and potentially stops hookup culture – all with the foundation of deeply fraudulent, almost entirely made up rape statistics. Such manipulation of statistics to push a political agenda should in and of itself be a crime. It’s mass fraud on a global scale.

    Affirmative consent is a very simple concept – yet people seem to want to make it complicated. It was never intended to stop rape. It was intended to stop hookup culture and give women the power to destroy the lives of men when women don’t get their way. Affirmative consent means that if you can’t definitively prove she said yes throughout the sexual encounter – all the way through the sexual encounter – then if she accuses you of rape or sexual assault – you get expelled and your future as a man is destroyed. Major backers have even admitted that AC was intended to make men fear sex with women. Hypergynocentrists (feminists) have been pushing to have ‘Yes Means Yes’ made a part of VAWA or a facsimile thereof ever since mattress girl and the Rolling Stone UVA rape hoax.

    Ever notice that adult women go after adolescent boys when they rape? Know why? Because young boys are weaker, less powerful, naive and are not yet able to counter adult women in sexual situations. Ever wonder what would happen if society drilled into these boys’ heads that these women were rapists in the same way they drill into women’s heads that drunken regret sex is rape? What happens instead? Women are given probation – not prison like men – and the boys are taught that they were lucky. As always, hypocrisy and double standards are the hallmarks of hypergynocentrism. It’s perfectly fine to victim blame – so long as the victim is a man or a boy.

    Ever since white-knight Ronald Reagan enacted no-fault divorce (the divorce rape of men) in the US, marriage and committed relationships have become anti-male. There is no worse decision you can make as a man than to give a woman the ring of power – or any power for that matter.

    How is it empowerment for women to eschew marriage and traditional roles but weakness and misogyny if men act in kind? How did women imagine that they’d walk away from their traditional roles and not expect men to do the same? How is it that men suffering 98% of workplace deaths and deaths related to national defense isn’t cause for a gender based national outcry – but rape is considered the most horrific of crimes? Hypocrisy and double standards – that’s how. Between suicides, workplace and national defense deaths, tens upon tens of thousands of men, in the US alone die every year. Know why there’s no national campaign to stop this horrific exploitation of men? I think we all know why.

    It’s important to remember that women demand all of the special treatment and exploitation of men listed above – but it is other men that enact the policies and legislation that enforces male disposability, hypergynocentrism (feminism) and destroy men by the hundreds of thousands in divorce court every single year.

    When it comes to fem-splaining and toxic-femininity, the hypocrisy and double standards are usually thick enough to choke a horse. You can find examples of fem-splaining, discrimination against men, sexism against men, toxic-femininity, hypocrisy and double standards all throughout feminist discourse. The best way to stop this campus rape would be to have men and women only colleges – yet women demand more and more coed dorms and fraternities. Know why? The answer is simpler than you thought. Women can’t control men’s speech in male-only spaces, nor can they manipulate, exploit and/or destroy men’s lives without close proximity to their targets. This is why women are fine with women-only gyms and other women-only (safe) spaces but protest male-only fraternities and other male-only spaces.

    Most men have been so “indoctrinated” into a woman-first mentality since birth – they become anti-male (AKA – white knights) and enact legislation that is deeply harmful to other men in the name of women’s rights. These men are cowards and unable to defend themselves or others against the fallacy of female oppression. The more women complain – the more men are oppressed – especially by other men. This is another reason why women despise male-only spaces. They can’t force the social and financial ostracization of men that might expose the truths listed above unless they have the power to socially and financially ostracize men that stand up for themselves.

    If you ever wondered why feminists wish to stop anti-feminist speech on the internet – wonder no more. It’s almost comical to see a man try to speak such truths in public. As a matter of fact – it’s dangerous for men to speak publicly (non-anonymously) against the supposed oppression of women – especially if you want to get elected/re-elected. To speak against feminists in this manner has been halted through a form of social and financial blackmail. “If you don’t support us – we’ll see that you’re fired, unemployable and hated by women everywhere.” This is the foundation of “rape apologist”, “stare-rape”, “man-spreading”, “man-splaining”, boycotts and ridiculous claims of misogyny should you dare arrive at the possibility of an opposing view. A man that defends himself against the open hatred of men by women is equated with a rapist or murderer by women and especially by other men.

    The courts are run by gynocentric white knights that live on bended knee for women – or by affirmative action feminists that would love nothing more than to destroy as many men’s lives as possible. VAWA is just as man-hating and as sadistic a form of fraud to handicap men as the current “rape culture” BS. Both are intended to increase women’s power and wealth – by forcefully transferring men’s earned power and wealth to women.

    It gets worse as every day passes. You have to be really careful about false accusations of DV and rape now. Those are the primary means with which women circumvent any rights a man might have and transfer men’s power and wealth to themselves.

    Know why men don’t have sexual assault issues nor training classes for women geared specifically towards educating women on men’s issues – AS A PART OF BEING ALLOWED TO REGISTER FOR CLASSES? Because unlike women, men are strong and independent by nature. Men don’t blame women for their own shortcomings and vulnerabilities. We don’t voluntarily put ourselves in positions to be raped or we just shoot or stab people that give it a go. Men don’t need women to solve such problems for men – but for some reason – women are forever dependent on men for protection and the epitome of perpetual victims of those from which they demand constant protection. Sounds crazy – but it’s true. Really – it is. Women are strong and independent? Hmmm…

    As a man, you’re now a rapist if (a) she’s had too much to drink – even if you have as well and/or (b) didn’t ask permission throughout and at every stage of “THE SEXUAL ENCOUNTER”. Proceeding from pulling down her panties to touching her vagina must be met with permission or be deemed the most horrific of crimes: “LACK-OF-PERMISSION-TO-MOVE-TO-NEXT-STAGE-RAPE”. It’s doesn’t get any more pathetically victimized than that. Oh wait – there’s stare rape now, too. Who can forget man-spreading and/or man-splaining and the forced, non-consensual patriarchal mind screwing those misogynistic-rapey acts represent? All men are rapists! All PIV sex is rape!

    Too bad men and women aren’t equal. It’s sad that men have to be so frequently and unfairly shamed over women’s inability to protect themselves – all throughout their lives – FOREVER. Also, you should let those ridiculously fraudulent rape and wage stats go, ladies. Everyone knows they’re false now. Keeping on with them makes women look even more pathetic than they already do – and that’s getting increasingly hard to accomplish.

    When do they start the “Teaching Female Teachers Not To Rape Underage School Boys” classes, I wonder? I had my fare share of adult women prior to turning 18. Can I go back and sue them and have them put in prison – cause I was such a victim of the matriarchy? Bad, bad, BAD MATRIARCHY! I was told that I was lucky to have sex with such women. Isn’t that blaming the victim? Shouldn’t female teachers and other professionals that deal with underage boys have to take a don’t-rape-underaged-boys class? I’m thinking that there’s a MASSIVE under reporting of ADULT-WOMEN-BOY-RAPE happening right under our noses.

    Proof positive that men are far dumber than women? Men still get married by the millions every single year. It’s sad really. Never give a woman the ring of power. If you do – it’ll serve as a noose around your neck for life.

    According to your average feminist and SJW, only men can be abusers. When women abuse men, it’s “justice” against the “patriarchy”. Blaming the victim in this case? Nope. According to SJWs, men can’t be victims. Why? Because men have all the power. If you believe that BS, I’ve a bridge to sell ya.

    Women have been shtuping bad boys behind their husbands and boyfriends backs since the beginning of time. Don’t take it personally. If you do – that makes you a fool. Don’t be a fool. Women love to trick men into being fools.

    If your wife cheats on you, she’s only saying that you’re a naive moron that will soon have his life destroyed by gynocentrists, white knights, and either your best fried, your brother and/or your father/step father. She’s telling you that she’s going to use her superior power under white-knight law to destroy your life and take a position that most supports her position in your life destruction. Women have been doing this to men for many, many centuries. Again – don’t be her fool.

    THE DISPOSABLE MALE:

  31. Hating Betas.

    I don’t really hate on betas. Only the ones who balk at truth can be frustrating. As I’ve mentioned before here, I work with the biggest beta I have ever seen in my life. At first, I thought it was an act, but no, he really has his brain wiring all fucked up and fights mightily to hold on to beliefs that have not ever served him well. So I don’t council him. I used to even try to show him some things about women, but he is firm that he could never do ” it ” like that.

    It seems that he is happy in his beta/victim status and takes offense at any notion that he should change his way of thinking.

    So what about the beta? Well, I don’t care for the hate that can sometimes come from a beta enthusiast. Everyone serves a purpose in life, and this is also true of the betaman. If you can show and explain to a man that his actions are causing him undesirable effects, and he will not listen to logical explanations as to why, leave him be. Can’t save those who don’t want to be saved.

    I am consistently puzzled at the state of males today. I credit TRM for enlightening me because I knew something was horribly wrong, but I was clueless as to what happened to men.

    My case was the reverse of most men. I started out strong and dominant from my early teens, purposely adopted a Blue Pill attitude in the false hope that softening my rough edges would make me a better husband, and destroyed my perfectly good marriage in the process.

    Never again.

    The Alpha vs Beta argument is interesting. The first time I heard the ” alpha ” term in was referring to wolves. I never associated it as applying to men until the past decade or so. As far as I knew, there were just varying degrees of masculinity, or absence there of. Males compete and females dig that shit, that was my understanding. I played football, raced cars, played guitar and would fight anybody because that is who I was and never with any thought to women. All of this made perfectly good sense to me.

    I have no patience for guys that are bullied and just seethe with resentment. I know that’s wrong headed in a manner of speaking, but I can’t help feeling that way. So bitching because somebody done you wrong .. yeah, no. I can’t count the fat lips, concussions, bloody noses ( remarkably no black eyes!! if a man hit me in the eye today, I’d fall out screaming like a bitch ) and contusions and bruises I got fighting off bad asses and thugs. Win some, lose some, but eventually no one fucked with you because it was known you’d fight back. So when guys just stood there and took it, that infuriated me. Plus, there are fucking MMA schools today!!!! Goddamn, if I’d had an MMA school to go to I coulda avoided a few busted lips.

    So those are the betas I do not care for.

    But the guys that are a product of social/FI conditioning are a different issue. I hear awful statistics about 20% of guys doing all the fucking/breeding and if that’s true, we are in crisis and everyone that can help our beta friends should be compelled to do it just because we are all men.

    So yes, I will still try to lend a helping hand to anyone I think I can help in some way. If they slap it away though, I’m pretty much done. I’ll go fuck the girl they have a crush on. I’m kidding.

    Society thinks they need betas but I disagree. The idea that a man can’t be an ” alpha ” and be married, a father, and a strong positive influence in his community is laughable. The fear of a mostly alpha society is overblown because of the mostly negative connotations being assigned to alphas via the FI and butthurt betas. There will always be betas and I am more than cool with that. What I am NOT cool with is the overwhelming numbers that currently exist, and the number of beta males who don’t even recognize that there is another side to them that will make life a lot less frustrating.

  32. @Farmlegend

    Hey. That’s no way for my mentor to speak. Come on, be positive. And fun.

    (I freely admit I get a little too positive and optimistic here on occasion, you’ll have to excuse me for it. I also have a little too much pressure of speech and that comment was in such a moment.)

    And who said anything about making any investment? (Although I would suggest leaving a decent tip for the bartend-ress with the 35 1/2 inch inseam. …..What with the dearth of alcohol on the bill and all. It might give her a touch more desire in the sack when you bed her.)

    And you know you can capitalize your moniker here? I’ve been feeling more alpha here ever since I changed mine (back in the summer) from sjfrellc to SJF (and I’ve been getting laid more after that too).

  33. @theasdgamer
    By the media? Religion? society? Parents? All of the above? I see what you’re saying about putting women on a pedestal (though I don’t understand why) but playing the field is not exactly discouraged in youth, is it?

  34. @Tim
    I don’t understand what part of that would get you banned lol I agree with most of what you wrote and most of it is pretty obvious to anyone looking objectively at the world around us.

    “Women haven’t gone amuck – they’re just doing what women do.”

    This is really the crux of understanding the Red Pill and game. If you don’t tell a 5yo to not eat cookies for dinner, that 5yo is going to eat cookies for dinner. The 5yo isn’t malicious, they’re just a 5yo running on impulses with no one keeping them in check. The mistake is in expecting that 5yo to instinctively know not to eat cookies fro dinner and then being upset/disappointed when they eat them, let alone taking up a legal contract (marriage) and changing laws and the rest of society etc all based on the assumption that that 5yo will instinctively know not to eat cookies, even when half of the changes you make to society actually incentivize that 5yo TO eat cookies.

    You’re still an edgelord with comments like “Hopefully, I get banned here, too.” tho lol you’re not some 13yo goth kid on an call of duty forum jesus.

  35. “You’re still an edgelord with comments like “Hopefully, I get banned here, too.” tho lol you’re not some 13yo goth kid on an call of duty forum jesus.”

    Yeah. Well. I was really looking to get banned.

  36. LM
    …what are you wearing?

    ” By the media? Religion? society? Parents? All of the above? I see what you’re saying about putting women on a pedestal (though I don’t understand why) but playing the field is not exactly discouraged in youth, is it?”

    Answer= All of the above.

    Tell LM what she’s won Bob…

    It’s a NEW CAR!!!!!!

    Playing the field is discouraged, even in youth. Boys and men of all ages are being actively discouraged from treating women as anything but ” equals ” and never, ever as sexual ” objects “.

    All forms of media exhort the wonderfulness of placing women upon pedestals as the way to happy life ( happy wife…). Single moms are the greatest thing since electricity and penicillin.

  37. @ LM

    Pro-women laws (e.g., VAWA, Title 9), comedy that belittles men and fathers, etc. Culture. Law. Focus on the Family. Dennis Rainey.

    Men aren’t encouraged to play the field but rather are encouraged to commit to one woman. It all serves women’s mating strategies. My mother taught me to play the field. It was excellent advice.

  38. To pile on to Blax’s comment, treating women as equals really means treating women as superior beings because women can get away with all kinds of bad behavior that won’t be tolerated in men, so men get the message that women are a superior kind of men.

    And, of course, women want a man who has higher status than she has and who is confident. Confidence is blasted out of all those future rapists, don’t you know? So, men end up being psychologically castrated. Especially young men. Not old farts like me who ignored all the codswallop shoved at us. So, when I’m around young men and young women, I have a tremendous advantage over the young men and the young men feel threatened by me.

    I understand women and most young men do not.

  39. Women adore being treated as sex objects. I refer you to my comment where I played Taillight Game with a waitress. And to the one where I described examining the hips/butt of a 21 y.o. broad.

  40. @Blaximus

    “Society thinks they need betas but I disagree. The idea that a man can’t be an ” alpha ” and be married, a father, and a strong positive influence in his community is laughable. The fear of a mostly alpha society is overblown because of the mostly negative connotations being assigned to alphas via the FI and butthurt betas. There will always be betas and I am more than cool with that. What I am NOT cool with is the overwhelming numbers that currently exist, and the number of beta males who don’t even recognize that there is another side to them that will make life a lot less frustrating.”

    In order for men to pass a shit test, they first have to identify something as a shit test. And then they have to successfully parry the shit test. Most males in today’s society either didn’t get the memo on that or don’t have the fortitude to learn game on their own in order to perceive and parry shit tests.

    From one of Rollo’s links upstream.

    http://therationalmale.com/2013/09/19/the-curse-of-potential/

    “Social feminization and the Feminine Imperative both play an active role in curtailing a man’s potential, but more often than not it’s with a willing male participant. It’s important for red pill Men to remember that the Feminine Imperative is more concerned about women’s perpetuated long-term security than it will ever be about Men actualizing their true potential – even when it means his sacrificing that potential to sustain her security, and by doing so makes him progressively less able to sustain it.”

    As Beige Phillip says: “The way she treats you is down to the presentation you give her. There’s no such thing as victims, just volunteers.”

    On the macro level the FI is winning over today’s males in this respect.

    On the micro level. An individual males today are losing in LTRs due to the fact that they don’t see the shit test coming.

    From “Practical Female Psychology: For the Practical Man” by
    Joseph South

    http://therationalmale.com/2015/11/10/the-purple-pill/comment-page-3/#comment-127567

    On the biological level, the female of our species is programmed to:
    1. Elicit a strong sexual attraction in one or more strong males.
    2. Feel a strong sexual attraction for such males.
    3. Become impregnated by her choice of male.
    4. Have a male to provide materially for both her and her infant child.
    5. Afterwards, she will subconsciously tend to operate in such a way so as to have her sexual attraction for that male decrease.
    6. Wash, rinse, repeat: she will tend to have more sexual intercourse and more children with other strong males.

    We call this process betaization, where the strong, alpha male is rendered beta — which means “secondary” or “subservient” — within the relationship, over a period of time. Quite often, this process occurs gradually and almost imperceptibly to both parties.

    Manipulation is widely used by women to achieve:
    • Safety and comfort for her and her children, with their survival being the primary purpose.
    • To thereby influence the man’s mind in such a way that he will feel compelled to protect her and her children, especially before pregnancy, during the pregnancy and throughout the children’s early developmental years.

    Female manipulation can be either creative or destructive, depending on the desired outcome. From the point of view of the man, female manipulation can be considered “good” when it supports life and the man’s interests and “bad” when it destroys life and/or damages the man’s interests.

    Succinctly, the more manipulation is used by a woman, the more it becomes natural and unconscious to her. It is like learning to play a musical instrument: at first it is difficult and one needs to pay conscious attention to each note being played, Then, as mastery is gradually achieved, manipulation becomes more and more unconscious.

    Behaviors are slow to develop and also slow to be unlearned. In the modem woman of the industrialized countries, the way instincts are expressed has changed slightly with time, due to less-demanding survival conditions. However, the influence of the female’s primal instincts on her behavior remains evident.

    The FI and females are successful in turning males into betas, driven by their imperatives and allowed by their victims volunteers.

  41. I was talking to my junior in high school aged niece.

    She has an old fashioned traditional mom and dad, so she is struggling a bit with gender relations.

    She told me that nobody really “dates” at all. She said some boys pursue girls, but most are “cheeto eating gamers” that don’t. She said most of the girls have fooled around and had sex with one or two guys, but that only a few were “sluts” that did more than that, and only with the top guys. The top guys were not necessarily the jocks either, but usually the ones that had a “reputation” (not sure what she meant by that) or access to weed. But, she stressed that they were not the weed “losers” either. She said there is classmates with college aged guys as fuck buddies.

    She said 99% of the girls are bitchy and entitled, and think that men are not worth their time.

    She has had a better upbringing than most and doesn’t know how to act. She doesn’t like the players, even though she says they excite her, but doesn’t feel she has another option besides the cheeto eating gamer guys, whom she likes as friends, but not more than that.

    AF/BB with no middle ground to speak of…

  42. @blaximus

    Nothing.

    Are you unfamiliar with hook up culture that permeates high school and college? Ok It’s been a minute since I was in college but I’m having a hard time believing kids today are opting out of the f**k fest (can I say that here?) in favor Searching for meaningful companionship at the bars. Besides Why is it now impossible to see someone as an equal human being but only want sex from them? Are the two mutually exclusive?

    Not sure what single moms have to do with it.

  43. LM

    It’s not about seeing someone as an equal ” human being “. I’m talking about the push for equality between the sexes. ASD touched on this above.

    I’m not familiar with hook up culture all that much, but I gather from having a teenaged daughter that it is not what it used to be. Idk about college. I do know that it’s a popular thing for high school chicks to bang college guys and that it’s looked upon favorably by their peers. I attribute this more to the state of high school boys than anything else.

    I also don’t know if any college aged folks are searching for any meaningful relationships any more either.

    Single moms are being held up as paragons of society, never to be judged and always to be applauded because they do the ” job of both parents “, which is utter bullshit. Single motherhood is a barometer of the problems we discuss here and all over the sphere. Fathers are being rendered obsolete and unworthy by the machine known as the FI.

    My time is up.

  44. @theasdgamer
    Agree with all of those except title 9. how has title 9 been bad for boys and men?
    I’m curious how old are you?

  45. SJF

    I cosign the ” volunteer ” description.

    I dunno man. I mean, I feel great. I don’t even have words to describe how good and alive I feel. Maybe I have a brain tumor and I don’t know it yet.

    But thinking about the nuts and bolts… Jeezuz. I’m hopeful. I’m mostly optimistic. But this situation is a fucking MONSTER, and it kills my natural buzz a little.

    Espresso time.

  46. @ LM

    how has title 9 been bad for boys and men?

    See, you just don’t get it. Where are the laws to benefit men? There aren’t any. All the laws are written to benefit women. (Title 9 causes schools to end men’s sports programs.)

    I’m curious how old are you?

    Old enough to know better and young enough not to care.

  47. @tinytim

    if Rollo banned ranters, there would be a lot of banning

    As rants go, you need MORE CAPS, and those parts NEED TO BE REALLY GOOD

    For example this is lame

    AS A PART OF BEING ALLOWED TO REGISTER FOR CLASSES?

    now if somebody was to skim read your wall of text, as almost everybody who does not ignore it completely will do. this part in CAPS makes no sense.

    Next your transitions in the rant are poor. For example, you cross from rape into don’t give women “the ring of power”, a confused metaphor where her ring becomes a “noose around your neck for life”, and slide into the mud of abuse/victim/cheating.

    Finally, what the fuck are you actually trying to say, in 30 words or less.

  48. @Blaximus

    “It’s not about seeing someone as an equal ” human being “. I’m talking about the push for equality between the sexes”

    What exactly is the difference?

    “I’m not familiar with hook up culture all that much, but I gather from having a teenaged daughter that it is not what it used to be.”

    I’ll say this as gently as I can…you are her father. You may not be getting the whole story for obvious reasons. I’m not suggesting anything bad about her behavior at all, but I know that I can’t recall having any such conversations about the sexual hobbies of my peers with my dad.

    “I also don’t know if any college aged folks are searching for any meaningful relationships any more either.”

    Not sure they ever were, at least not in the last 40 years.

  49. @ SJF

    The FI and females are successful in turning males into betas, driven by their imperatives and allowed by their victims volunteers.

    Of course, the volunteers don’t know that they have other options. So their “volunteering” is baked in.

  50. Cave

    ” She told me that nobody really “dates” at all. She said some boys pursue girls, but most are “cheeto eating gamers” that don’t. She said most of the girls have fooled around and had sex with one or two guys, but that only a few were “sluts” that did more than that, and only with the top guys. The top guys were not necessarily the jocks either, but usually the ones that had a “reputation” (not sure what she meant by that) or access to weed. But, she stressed that they were not the weed “losers” either. She said there is classmates with college aged guys as fuck buddies.”

    This ” reputation ” thing is akin to the BadBoy. My daughter went to school with a handsome kid who was always in trouble, in and outside of school, and always failing classes and attending summer school to pass to the next grade. He was/is a quintessential bad ass and he has a gigantic personality and makes everyone laugh. Girls went apeshit for him.

    When I was going to school….( old man talk, lol ” In my day we walked to school..etc.etc.etc. ) Jocks were the thing. In the south, even the band members had pussy-pull. But I’ve noticed with both my daughters, jocks are a thing of the past.

  51. Tim – not nearly tl;dr enough. Moar words, and butthurtedness. MOAR! C’mon, put Green Day’s I Walk Alone into Pandora, get your headphones on, and feel it. Really feel it.

  52. @theasdgamer

    “Title 9 causes schools to end men’s sports programs.”

    I knew you were going to say that. I was a D1 college athlete so I’m well aware of title 9. To say title 9 causes schools to end men’s sports programs is misleading. Greedy universities have set up a system that makes revenue generating men’s sports fund all other sports (men’s and women’s) and when profits aren’t as large as overpaid coaches, ADs and regents want them to be, they cut into the non-revenue generating sports. Yes it adversely affects men’s sports more than women’s because they have to maintain an equal funding balance. But keep in mind we’re talking about schools in which one team alone is capable of raking in 7 figures in TV appearances and they don’t pay their players (don’t even get me started on that). There’s more than enough to go around and to keep men’s sports well funded at your typical D1 school.

    It may be different at D2 and 3 schools but from what I understand they don’t have the problem of being “forced” to cut men’s sports the way D1 schools do.

  53. @CaveClown
    “What does this 5% of men that will be banging the chicks look like? Is it still looks, money, game…pick two?”

    What happens when women have thousands of options for looks and money at their fingertips? Those things lose their value. And even if they had value, do girls make a rational logical calculation before they get turned on, of “well this guy only has 6/10 game but he has 9/10 looks and 8/10 money that my final calculation is–” or do they just run with their tingle emotions in the moment when Blaximus flirts with them behind the McDonald’s counter or RSDTyler gets up in their face fucking with their emotions? Why did that 21yo ignore the dozens+ offers on her phone from men way better looking and richer and offering way more material value than me, to flirt with me and take me home? If she had logically calculated my overall value and compared it to even a quarter of the guys who messaged her that night alone, she’d have found a dozen better prospects than me. Hell even in that bar there were younger buffer richer taller guys than me…and yet who’s she buying a drink for and telling to come home with her?

    It’s always going to come down to game (and taking action lol)

    “If only 5% are in the game, won’t most chicks not get laid than? Are they really content with the social media validation instead of real flesh and blood men?”

    Most chicks will all fuck the same guy (social proof, preselection, you know the drill) and the social media validation CAN be as good as banging a beta chode because she can at least believe in the fantasy that the social media validation is coming from higher value men than she’s around in real flesh and blood life.

    “She told me that nobody really “dates” at all. She said some boys pursue girls, but most are “cheeto eating gamers” that don’t.”

    This aligns with what I’m seeing in-field with the <25yo crowd. The boys have been neutered by feminism and passive distractions like videogames and shit, and the girls are wholly unimpressed with their peers and are very rarely even exposed to "alpha" and interestingly I'm finding they sometimes don't seem to consciously/forebrain know how to process running into "alpha" but their subconscious/hindbrain kicks in and takes over because IT'S like "holy shit FINALLY", so they have a little mental battle that goes on while they try to get both brains in alignment. Hard to describe but it takes the form of a lot of hot & cold followed by chasing, as their brain fights between being attracted and not being used to being attracted and the being attracted eventually winning.

    "She said most of the girls have fooled around and had sex with one or two guys,"

    lol

    "but that only a few were “sluts” that did more than that, and only with the top guys. The top guys were not necessarily the jocks either, but usually the ones that had a “reputation” (not sure what she meant by that)"

    She means the guys who fuck a lot of girls end up fucking more girls. You asked what that "5% of men look like", she's describing it. It ain't pretty for the other 95% of men.

    "or access to weed. But, she stressed that they were not the weed “losers” either. She said there is classmates with college aged guys as fuck buddies."

    College aged and above I'm sure. A few likely have sugar daddies or definitely will in college.

    "She said 99% of the girls are bitchy and entitled, and think that men are not worth their time."

    They're not necessarily bitchy because they're shitty people, but more because NO ONE will stop them from being bitchy and EVERYONE will enable and reward it…so why wouldn't they be bitchy? Especially when they're surrounded by boys who are basically worthless dirt or worse to them, because they're repulsively beta…do you step around every ant you see on the sidewalk? And, unfortunately, there are chicks who, Mean Girls style, happily embrace having worthless subjects to bully around and hamster rationalize that its okay to basically abuse betas because they're not really human to them. The glimpses I've seen of it are a little creepy sadistic to be honest lol (picture that experiment where the people torture others for science and rationalize it and some of them kind of take a sick pleasure in it)…but at the same time it's just a more extreme version of the same dynamic My Humps describes: "I say no but they keep givin, so I keep on takin" Would they do this stuff if the guys weren't so beta or if someone smacked them down for it like society used to?

    This 21yo chick, when she wants food, just posts "I'm hungry for X" on her social media and inevitably within a few minutes some thirsty guy will take care of it for her and send her food delivery paid for etc. The guy doesn't even want sex (like, he does but he doesn't expect it and is just happy to do stuff for her) and she has thousands of these guys lined up to do stuff for her and they are DYING to do it for her and couch it in "oh no don't worry I LIKE doing nice things for a pretty girl ;)" etc.

    Is she a bitch or are they creating the situation where she doesn't really have a reason not to do it? If a bunch of girls were throwing free offers of sex at you, how long would you resist before you went "well, okay if it'll make you happy I guess you can suck my dick, if you'll drive all the way over here and bring me a pizza because I'm too lazy to get out of bed" and they happily do it.

    An interesting side note that I'm noticing is that the really young chicks I'm running into seem to assume "beta by default". Because they're so surrounded by beta chodes and have been the entire time growing up, that they assume my buddies and I will jump when they snap their fingers and shit like they're used to and they get mad when we don't because we aren't doing what we're "supposed" to like the other guys, and then they end up chasing but not understanding why they're chasing or how to chase because they've never had to do it or felt the desire to do it and it's literally confusing to them. It's fascinating to see.

    "She doesn’t like the players, even though she says they excite her, but doesn’t feel she has another option besides the cheeto eating gamer guys, whom she likes as friends, but not more than that."

    She'll have another option once she gets old enough to hit the bar scene. Guess who. 😉

    Thanks for the intel, your convo with her confirms a lot of stuff I'm seeing infield and a lot of theories I have on why I'm seeing it.

    @LM
    "I’m having a hard time believing kids today are opting out of the f**k fest (can I say that here?) in favor Searching for meaningful companionship at the bars."

    They're fucking the alphas and generally high-value males, and go to the bars because bars are basically huge stimulus floods for them and there's a chance they'll meet actual alpha males there since most of the betas are at home eating cheetohs and playing xbox on a Friday night. None of them are looking for "meaningful companionship" in 2015 lol Most of the girls I meet disqualify themselves from relationship potential before I can do it myself, like they're saying stuff that in 2005 my buddies and I had to say to try to get girls to not want more than just sex…but these girls are saying it like all they want is to get fucked. It's crazy, but makes my job a lot easier in that area.

    "Besides Why is it now impossible to see someone as an equal human being but only want sex from them? Are the two mutually exclusive?"

    "I’ll say this as gently as I can…you are her father. You may not be getting the whole story for obvious reasons. I’m not suggesting anything bad about her behavior at all, but I know that I can’t recall having any such conversations about the sexual hobbies of my peers with my dad."

    lol take her phone from her out of the blue and look for Tinder, Snapchat, Instagram, her messaging apps, her Facebook inbox etc Really just befriend any 18-25yo girl (chat one up at the bar and joke around about social media and Tinder and thirsty guys etc) and get her to show you her Tinder matches, Snapchats, Instagram etc. Shit will blow your fuckin mind.

  54. @YaReally

    You misunderstood me or you’ve not been on a college campus in the last 40 years. Men and women hook up without strings all the time and it’s celebrated, and it’s not just the so called alpha males hooking up either.

    It won’t blow my mind at all. If you’ve read my comments you know I’m well aware that everyone is fucking around. Which brings me back to my point and where I do not agree with theasdgamer and blaximus — who is telling young men they have to be monogamous these days? Their parents, the church? And do you seriously think they’re listening? All the evidence shows they are not.

  55. @LM
    “Men and women hook up without strings all the time and it’s celebrated,”

    When did I say they don’t?

    “and it’s not just the so called alpha males hooking up either.”

    I never said it was.

    “If you’ve read my comments you know I’m well aware that everyone is fucking around.”

    I have no idea who you are. I just quoted some shit you said and responded to it.

    “who is telling young men they have to be monogamous these days? Their parents, the church?”

    Media, influenced by the FI.

    “And do you seriously think they’re listening? All the evidence shows they are not.”

    Do you think the majority of young men have control over how much sex they have? Or, as a woman who only sees the 20% as existing and the 80% not existing because of your solipsistic nature, do you think the 20% represent the whole? “The badboy jock who registers on my radar is getting laid all the time and not being monogamous so that means all men are like that!” “what about the nerds in the computer class?” “huh?? the…nerds…?? ……ERROR BAD FEELS DOES NOT COMPUTE END CONVERSATION YOURE BAD GO AWAY!!! ERROR ERROR ERROR”

    Thank-you for dropping by to personally demonstrate the stuff we talk about here.

  56. @LM: “What exactly is the difference?”

    The former is a metaphysical entity. The “soul,” if you will. The western idea of “equality” comes to us from the Christian idea (whether you are Christian or not) that all souls are equal before God.

    The latter is a physical entity, our actual, corporeal beings. The contemporary collective holds that all of us are equal in the sense of being the same, except, perhaps, for a few anatomical differences that make no difference.

    I have had a young woman explain to me that men are not actually stronger than women. It only appears that way because The Patriarchy (dum dum duuuuuuum!) forces women to lift weight in a masculine manner. If women were only allowed to lift weights in a feminine manner they could lift as much as a man.

    It must be true, because we are all the same, and you obviously don’t lift weights with your genitals, so what sort of genitals you have can’t possibly affect your ability to lift weights.

    As an aside, this young woman was also convinced that it was the responsibility of men to figure out “how to lift like a girl” and tell them how to do it. The fact that they hadn’t, thus making women falsely appear weaker than men, was proof positive of Patriarchal Oppression.

  57. @YaReally No I don’t think everyone gets all of the sex they want all the time. I just think some of your thinking is a little outdated, that’s all.

    And you can stop with you’re just another feminist accusations. Nothing I’ve said has been in defense of feminism or women.

    Some men here have pointed out the same things I have — that ideas like the jocks are the only ones getting sex and young men are expected to be monogamous are just not true anymore.

    1. @LM, what YaReally is explaining to you is known as the Apex Fallacy. Since women’s existence revolves around their innate solipsistic psychology the default is to only consider how outside experience relates to themselves.

      Thus the Apex example become the universal rule. Feminists do this all the time with respect to the mythical Glass Ceiling, but even non-feminist identifying women default to the Apex Fallacy when they see the behaviors of the apex example of men and then apply it to the whole.

      You should probably read more posts here before you continue, you’re just covering old topics and expecting commenters to catch you up on them.

      1. @Is this thing on?
        “We simply have no idea how much alpha is in us until we take the red pill and reemerge. The harsher our blue-pill indoctrination, the longer it takes.”
        http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YPmzA_cRMgM

        @Chump No more
        “Becoming a RP aware man gives you the ultimate gift of ‘choice’… most men will go through their entire lives never having known that re-gaining their personal power was as easy as merely *choosing* to do so.

        What happens afterward is entirely up to you.”

        Doing this now and it’s killing my old self with a real pleasure.

        @Jeff
        “Alpha will not conform. He wants society to conform to him and suffer solipsism just as badly as the XX chromosome.”

        From a beta to alpha mindset if I can call myself that. It holds true to observations I’ve made. part of what makes the alpha bad boy appeasing is his unwillingness to conform.

        @DarkTriadMan
        “That’s part of where the power of the alpha comes from. It comes from his spirit, which does not accept a lesser beta role.”

        Compliance isn’t a virtue that ever gets rewarded.

        “It’s about having innate, inherent value (which can be developed) and the ability to enthrall others long enough for them to recognize that value and involuntarily embrace it.”

        Charm
        http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iwqAmXYW_gU

        @Blaximus
        “They need to observe and LEARN.”
        I am

        “Sex appeal isn’t the most important aspect of living, but knowing how to develop it and use it to one’s benefit is fucking awesome.”

        Still in progress…

        “But the guys that are a product of social/FI conditioning are a different issue. I hear awful statistics about 20% of guys doing all the fucking/breeding and if that’s true, we are in crisis and everyone that can help our beta friends should be compelled to do it just because we are all men.”

        Agreed (even If I lose them in the process)

        @Forge the sky
        “The way I see it is, we’re all playing a great ruthless game as men. Always have been. It’s just the current prosperous circumstances and the FI have successfully blinded many men to that reality.”

        Not the ones who stay as Men. Maybe it’s worse than I though.

        “Men are a strange blend of cooperative and competitive. You need both the fully experience a man’s life. Own it.”

        That’s Rugby

        “Introspection is an occupational hazard.”
        Well now I it sinks in…

        @Scott6584
        “”The Feminist ethic was strong and I suffered from trying to tone down my Alpha tendencies to conform to society’s and the church’s definition of what it meant to be a good man. Hence, I adopted some Beta behaviors that didn’t do me any good in my marriage”

        I saw myself getting that way.

        “I can see how I contributed to the downfall, and why it frustrated me that she would treat me better when I starting acting the opposite of what society and the church was telling me to do.”

        Man that’s a boon the sooner the better.

        “True Alpha’s don’t hate women. They just know how to play with them. And women like men who both enjoy them, and know how to play with them.”

        Play is all their is at days end.

        @redlight
        “I find myself using social skills on my overbearing Mother and it works, should I feel bad?”

        It mends a hell of a lot of abuse to me. It’s a healing process.

        @kfg
        “A man’s burden of performance is part of his looks.”

        It’s sinking in…

        @Chris James
        Look up Mike Byrne and ask him about that…

        @Anonymous Reader
        “Alpha is situational. Alpha is relative. Alpha is not absolute.”

        That’s an astoundingly beautiful truth.

        @Tim
        “Women are strong and independent? Hmmm…”
        https://m.soundcloud.com/mylescurwen/anthem-part-2-classical
        ” I had my fare share of adult women prior to turning 18. Can I go back and sue them and have them put in prison – cause I was such a victim of the matriarchy?”
        Me to Tim…

        @theasdgamer
        “Confidence is blasted out of all those future rapists, don’t you know? So, men end up being psychologically castrated.”

        Definitely happened to me.

        “Men aren’t encouraged to play the field but rather are encouraged to commit to one woman.”

        Yet who is a women what is play? Adaptations…

        “(Title 9 causes schools to end men’s sports programs.)

        I’m curious how old are you?

        Old enough to know better and young enough not to care.”

        Fucking Brutal

        “Of course, the volunteers don’t know that they have other options. So their “volunteering” is baked in.”

        I know now.

        @SJF
        “The FI and females are successful in turning males into betas, driven by their imperatives and allowed by their victims volunteers.”

        That’s an uncomfortable truth. One that gives me severe night terrors.

        @Caveclown
        “AF/BB with no middle ground to speak of…”
        I live in that place yet I have no words to create for it.

        Mindset vs habit

        @LM
        “they don’t pay their players (don’t even get me started on that).”

        Oh hell that’s still going on? My school team got cut because we where to “violent” so we went to a club then got cut from that for being to “dangerous” than got cut from that.

        “who is telling young men they have to be monogamous these days? Their parents, the church? And do you seriously think they’re listening? All the evidence shows they are not.”

        Parents and church in my case.

        “Some men here have pointed out the same things I have — that ideas like the jocks are the only ones getting sex and young men are expected to be monogamous are just not true anymore.”

        That’s never outdated just out expressed by a level of transparency. It’s more open now than back in 1953 when it’s a wonderful life came out.

        @Yareally
        “Do you think the majority of young men have control over how much sex they have? Or, as a woman who only sees the 20% as existing and the 80% not existing because of your solipsistic nature, do you think the 20% represent the whole? “The badboy jock who registers on my radar is getting laid all the time and not being monogamous so that means all men are like that!” “what about the nerds in the computer class?” “huh?? the…nerds…?? ……ERROR BAD FEELS DOES NOT COMPUTE END CONVERSATION YOURE BAD GO AWAY!!! ERROR ERROR ERROR”
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bbft2jhtkNA
        Spot the fuck on…

  58. @kfg
    Equal does not mean identical. Take any two men, unless they are twins they are not identical, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t equal.
    .
    “It only appears that way because The Patriarchy (dum dum duuuuuuum!) forces women to lift weight in a masculine manner.” She’s an idiot. I hope you’re not suggesting it’s common for people who aren’t idiots to think this way.

  59. @Jeff

    “A true Alpha is just that. He needs no friends, will burn bridges to get money or ass. He can’t hold a job long term. Divorced or left his live in girlfriend. Or divorced a couple of times. Moved from one state to another.”

    We are human, we have to be beta, noble humans. That is what you are implying. “True” alphas are not human at all (or may be I mean humane) let alone noble. They are worthless scoundrels; animals without a touch of humanity to them. Thanks. I think you are right. But I think if that is what it takes for a man to get some respect, then I say let it be. So long as it allows a man to not live his entire life as a supplicating mangina – as one would call it. (the wealth of words in this goddamn place lolest).

    “Again. If hypergamy was held in check and we could stamp down and shame them and the feminists, beta would reign. It is when the feces tests within hypergamy is aloud to run wild and feminists do not allow the beta to challenge hypergamy you will continue to get what you have. When I mean run wild, is women who ride the CC and then hit the wall etc.”

    Please let the CC live on. It has always been there. The women fucked the bad guy behind the husbands back since caveman days to this day. Without the CC, we would not be having variety of pussy we have. The more the CC riders, the better for those who care to provide the C. I don’t mind providing mine. However those who insist on praying humane beta-run society kingdom come; good luck is all I can say.

  60. “I hope you’re not suggesting it’s common for people who aren’t idiots to think this way.”

    It is a fact that it is taught in the colleges, by tenured professors with PhDs. Whether it is correct isn’t relevant to my answer to your question. It is still what they mean by equal.

    And therefore, if some group does achieve the same results as some other group, there must be some force holding them back. A force which must be counteracted if there is be equality.

  61. @Rollo, Please explain to me how I am only considering how outside experiences relate to myself (meanwhile Blaximus is drawing conclusions about the same topic based on the word of his teenage daughter???)

    The majority of college kids are sexually active. Studies support this. Every conversation I’ve ever had with a college graudate, employee, faculty, student also supports this. For the record, virtually everyone I regularly interact with and have for decades is college educated so I’m not talking about 3 people here.

    Seriously this is so off topic from my original question.

  62. @rugby11jh

    Me: “they don’t pay their players (don’t even get me started on that).”
    You: “Oh hell that’s still going on? My school team got cut because we where to “violent” so we went to a club then got cut from that for being to “dangerous” than got cut from that.”

    Confused. My comment had nothing to do with violence.

  63. Hey Rollo,

    I thought this article would be a good opportunity to share some of my problems. I haven’t spoken to anybody about this, but it bugs me, and I’d love your input.

    I’ve been getting into your posts recently, and into the entire Redpill sphere of ideas and concepts. I’ve never been particularly “beta”, and generally a well-liked, flexible person – socially speaking, that is. I’ve always been close to masculinity thanks to my father, and the manosphere has enabled me to piece it all together.

    Now, when I go out into groups of men that have internalized the alpha mindset, I always end up being put down or bummed out. A lot of male-on-male social vetting comes down to rough jokes and all that, and I’m completely fine with it. In fact, I love it. That’s not the issue, however. My problem lies with the fact that most of these alpha guys are complete douchebags. I hate people who excessively use that term to describe anybody even remotely alpha or masculine, but honest to God, these guys are shallow fucking idiots. They casually cut you off mid sentence because they’re not interested, they only talk about pussy – and while I’m no stranger to that myself, I don’t do it every fucking day – they don’t have interesting personalities, and they don’t have any meaningful bonds with friends. They’re nothing but young men with good looks and a certain attitude. It’s bumming me out that these are the only masculine men at my campus. I get along because of my humour, so I’m generally accepted into the pack, but fuck me if I don’t feel like I’m hanging out with living caricatures.

    How the hell do I deal with this? Rollo, honestly, I love your article on “Slay the Father”, and I know that I shouldn’t be going around expecting men to be good, well-rounded people who show interest, but come on man, can we at least expect some form of constructive masculinity from each other? I sometimes honestly feel like the redpill subreddit becomes this congregation of sociopaths. Not because they want to fuck somebody’s wife or girlfriend, I’m ok with that as long as it’s not one of your friends. I’m talking about the absurdly “every man for himself”-attitude that some people have.

    I’ve read your “Alpha” article, and I think there’s one thing I fundamentally disagree with. For some reason, in my generation, and in most campuses I’ve ever been to – “alpha” and “casual douchebag” correlate strongly. And I’m talking male-on-male behaviour. These motherfuckers are driving me nuts, and the only men I find myself forming meaningful bonds with are either moderately masculine, or former betas. Past a certain SMP-success threshold, men seem to become insufferable asshats that are about as interesting as the average alpha-kappa-dojackshit sorority sister.

    So Rollo, tell me, what am I to do in a situation like this? Is this a matter of perspective? Am I still “too beta”, and should I expect my disdain for their behaviour to be some bluepill relic from some feminine conditioning I might have experienced at some point in my life? Or am I right in thinking that these people are not worth my time, and that there’s more to a man’s life than sex and male one-upmanship.

    Because frankly, Rollo, if I have to act like a smooth player every time I talk to my friends, I’m done with this shit. I want to be able to have conversations without the all-familiar snappy, edgy tone and the strict relevance. Fuck it, I want to be able to say boring shit from time to time and not have my ass chapped. Have conversations about a book I just read, or about some new science development, or about a piece of art I saw in a museum last week. Eventually, life comes down to procreation, but does that mean that all I should care about is pussy and maybe sports? What the fuck do these people even think about on a regular basis.

  64. @James

    “I want to be able to have conversations without the all-familiar snappy, edgy tone and the strict relevance. Fuck it, I want to be able to say boring shit from time to time and not have my ass chapped.”

    As you wait for Rollo, let me just say:

    Get new friends. Or better, get none.

    Life must be on your terms. Live on your terms. Not on the terms of some AMOGer(s). And Alpha is neither here nor there. I have no idea what it is and I don’t think anyone does. It does not matter what it is called, gamma epsilon, rho, kappa, miu, lambda, sigma, chi or fukin mongooses…whatever they wanna call.

    Call me anything, be called anything including alpha or beta or whatever so long don’t sell out your frame for need to belong to some ragtag anything. Like minded people find each other. Sometimes they don’t; but even then, solitude is still a great teacher.

  65. @adsgamer I don’t deny that you or any other older guy can successfully run game on 20-something clubsluts or cougars and engineer a one-night lay or grope or strong iois. It sounds like you are a situational alpha in your establishments, which should be taken full advantage of.

    My contention is with the conflation of sexual market value and marriage market value. My premise is based on the idea that the vast majority of guys on this site and who discover the red pill are not PUA’s. They are not interested in generating an endless amount of hookups with randoms. Most, I believe, want to know how to get and maintain an ltr with vigorous sexual interest, which is apparently a very difficult thing to do nowadays.

    Choosing to live a pua lifestyle is fine for some, and certainly having the skills needed to generate options in the future is arguably the most valuable asset game can provide, since options and frame-setting are strongly linked. But running clown game on semi-drunken, vapid sluts for a shot at a disease-ridden orifice must get tiresome. (It should be noted that if you have a handsome face and fit body, you need practically zero game or effort to get laid today thanks to tinder. The premium on male looks is now at an all-time high.)

    I will simply point to Roosh who has recently realized he no longer wants to be a third-world trotting pua and instead wants a young, near-chaste women to be his wife. Roosh is 36 – that famed time period where the curve of virility and realized potential collide. Let’s hope he can reach down 12+ years to find his dream wife. If his ideal age is satisfied, it will probably be through a citizenship-play as he will certainly not find an American girl that is willing to have such a discrepancy. In some data sets, the only men with a 10+ age discrepancy are those who are in poverty or have a 200k+ income (10% of those men have a 10+ year age difference). And, it’s my hunch that a majority of those marriages are seconds where it’s a 45+ year old guy married to a 30 something women. Yes, there are personal anecdotes, but I want the odds on my side.

    It’s really quite simple. Most men want to marry or be in an ltr. Divorce is a terrible outcome for reasons we all know. One of the strongest predictors of divorce is sex partner count for females especially. Sex partner count and alpha widowhood potential increase significantly with age. Probably 80% of 30 year-olds are alpha widows. Most young women do not want to marry men significantly older than themselves.

    Yes, I am saying most men should go unicorn hunting as soon as possible if they are under 30 and want a family. I am primarily against the idea of going “monk mode” in a 10-year long bet to achieve status and career cache to only be met with desperate women hitting the wall for which you now look like an optimized beta provider. I’m afraid some may have misinterpreted the smv chart and have undertaken this strategy. If you’re ok with marrying a slut, then feel free to game away your 20s with plate fbs. That may be appealing to you.

    As Rollo has stated: http://therationalmale.com/2015/10/10/the-vetting-process/

    “Sex is the glue that holds relationships together. It’s the height of irony that a woman would place so high a priority on her own sexual experiences while in her SMV peak yet completely disqualify that importance when she gets to the phase where it becomes a liability to her. As a man it is vitally important for you to know whether you’ll be her apex Alpha lover or if your burden of performance will be measured against the ghosts of Alpha men from her sexual past – all while you endure the stresses and joys of raising children with her.”

    If you want to be her apex alpha, you will likely need a young women.Unfortunately, the time period when you can marry an optimal woman is earlier than when you can hit your full potential. As has been mentioned, marriage is commonly known to be a dream killer and a de-railer of male potential due to the often bipolar needs of hypergamous optimization.

    Older men may enjoy and benefit from the much larger age discrepency casual sex can allow for in the pickup lifestyle, which is fine, but hopefully can see the truth in this. Maybe they are planning on being so alpha that they override every single sexual experience she’s ever had. Or, you can be like Aaron Clarey and simply cohabitate and not have kids. Risk and Trade-offs – the inescapable male reality.

    The blue pill is essential for society. Many who take the redpill will not ascend and instead enter a suicidal or bitter state. I hated women for a long time. I must come to peace with the fact that i wanted something that was never possible. I believe redpill knowledge helps in all relationships. Some of us will have opposing relationship or sexual strategy goals, which I still respect. Believe me, I was anti-marriage for a long time after reading about the redpill, but having a family is a life-goal which I had to honestly come to terms with. The current environment makes this a hellish task.

    Some sources
    http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/older_lover/Female-Msg-Prefs.png
    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-case-for-an-older-woman/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships
    http://www.austin-institute.org/research/ask-a-data-scientist-age-differences-between-couples/
    http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2010/09/sexual-partner-divorce-risk.html

  66. @ James, honestly seek out older males to be friends and mentors. Some professors can be pretty great lifelong friends as well.

  67. @James
    When people become rich/successful, they often begin to find value in philanthropy, charity, mentorship, etc, helping elevate other people to their level to share in their success.

    If you don’t like the selection of pre-made alphas at your level (which is entirely understandable, a lot of them are douchebags), befriend some betas with decent basic qualities, and over time help them elevate themselves to your level but with a proper non-douchebag structure underneath.

    Most of the alphas I’ve hung with are the ones with a variety of friends…in high school they bounced around from the jocks to the nerds to the loners/outsiders to the normal kids even to the staff at times, able to be the social connector between groups and find value in pretty much anyone (and more importantly help people find value in themselves) and have the frame to not care if they catch flak for it and, most of the time, make the people giving them flak for it feel retarded FOR giving them flak about being friends with people who are different.

    It sounds woo-woo, but it can be as simple as an off-hand comment/question that includes them in a conversation and gives them a chance to shine, or a bit of praise for something well done, or an invite to an event. Like the guy who rounds everyone up in the office for a beer at the pub down the street after work on a Friday and makes sure to make the new guy at work feel invited and welcome. You don’t necessarily have to flat out teach them “look here’s some Red Pill knowledge”, even just leading by example or giving them the opportunity to lead themselves can start a growth process in them.

    Does it directly benefit that alpha to do that? Not necessarily…it CAN, but then, that’s not really the point of philanthropy is it. 😉

  68. @James
    November 17th, 2015 at 2:20 am

    You have to understand that you are an introvert and these frat boy douchebags are extroverts. Social interactions drain your batteries. Social interactions recharge theirs.

    You need time alone to recharge your batteries when being in a social group of extroverts steals your energy.

    Cultivate your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. One tool to understand and work on this is to understand your Meyers-Briggs personality type (oh noes, not this again for the regular readers) and go with your flow.

    http://www.16personalities.com/articles/our-theory

    https://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/caring-for-your-introvert/

    Frome the above link on introversion:

    COMING OUT OF THE INTROVERSION CLOSET

    I had been exposed to the concept of intrinsic introversion before that story came out, and immediately recognized it in myself. Finally it explained why I couldn’t go more than an hour at a party without feeling the need to hide out in the bathroom for five minutes! It was liberating to discover the mechanism of my social exhaustion, and to understand that I didn’t have some bizarre social disease, it was just the way I was built and there were thousands more like me.

    Building on that realization, two interesting things came out of my taking the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator questionnaire a few years ago. The first was that I was typed as strongly introverted, confirming my hunch (since confirmed twice more). The second was that nobody I knew believed it.

    The combination of two factors:

    1.My ability to go on at length about subjects of interest and passion

    2.My keeping a small group of close friends who share my interests
    means that most people close to me have spent hours hearing me talk their ears off about one thing or another. So they are flummoxed and probably a bit offended when I tell them what a bother it is to be pinned in conversation.

    I’ve come to explain my condition to some of those around me, and have left more than one social event by simply saying, “my E is empty, I’m going home to recharge it.”

    Additionally, you might want to read and understand Robert Greene’s “The 48 Laws of Power”.

    The “concise 48 Laws of Power” version might be better for a college student. The actual book has too many boring anecdotes from the remote historical past.

    Google “list of 48 laws” and click on the pdf file at tke.org/files (I can’t put a third link in this comment or it will go into WordPress moderation).

    TL;DR: It’s not you. There is life after college. Enjoy your studies.

  69. @LM: “And “they” would be feminists?”

    It is feminist intersectional theory, although at this point not everyone who subscribes to it is, consciously, a feminist. It has become a central tenet of progressivism and one of the strongest forces in all of western civilization, with many people who consider themselves conservatives promoting its values.

    Again, you do not have to believe in it for the above to be so, just as you do not have to believe in Hinduism for Hinduism to be so. Nor, just because you are not a feminist, does not mean you have not absorbed and believe many of its promoted values.

    If, for instance, you have ever eaten a salad and thought of it as “healthy, nutrient dense” food, you have accepted something that is feminist theory with no basis in fact. From Sister White, to Susan B. Anthony, to circa 95% of all dieticians today being women.

    Corn flakes for breakfast, fiber to stay “regular?” Straight from Sister White through her doctor John Harvey Kellogg. They are religious doctrine of the Divine Feminine, accepted into feminist theory by the suffragettes.

    And now endemic to the culture.

  70. @James
    Channing Tatum (in general, but his role in 21 Jump Street) is a great example of what I’m talking about:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-MVBiP19Mg

    At 4:25 in this (tho the whole clip is hilarious and worth a watch, they spike this girl’s emotions through the roof and bust on her a bunch and self-amuse etc (being high probably helped lol)):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0q-NAHFpbc&t=4m45s

    Brad Pitt at to this first lady’s question:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yaxy_lNQrkE

    He’s way less comfortable/natural around Brad Pitt but that’s ’cause he’s just closer buddies with Tatum, but the point is even a guy like Brad Pitt tries to elevate the guys around him and sees value in the people around him that don’t necessarily see that value in themselves.

    Russell Brand makes basically everyone around him at all times (like at 40 seconds into this) feel special and he hands out genuine personalized compliments because he looks for the value in people, whether they realize they have it or not:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKKfo-OIcnE&t=40s

    Do any of these guys HAVE to elevate Jonah or the nerds in that 21 Jump Street role? Does it directly benefit them? Not REALLY, they don’t NEED to do it…alpha CAN be a selfish dickish thing, but like, it doesn’t have to be. When you have your shit handled, elevate other people and inspire them to handle their shit too. Then you’ll have friends and peers that aren’t douchebags.

  71. If we were all the same alpha male then there would be too much competition.

    Besides there’s enough talent around for everyone to find their match. It just takes a bit of education,patience and perseverance to find her.

  72. Asd,

    Intimidated?

    I agree whole heartedly with your wisdom of the subject and i have absolutely no reason to not believe your exploits. I just think a true alpha isnt going or even thought of a red pill, manosphere. He is what he is and lives it. Commenting in ANY blog is beta.

    A high ranking beta is res pill naturally is most likely too busy to read anything unrelated to getting himself ahead in his own life of production. I do absolutely agree with you older men can land and do have hb8/9/10 hitting on them. I have experienced this myself.

    My argument is betas learning rp doesnt make them alpha. It just makes them aware of game and reap the rewards. And good for them/us.

    I have read many of your comments on many blogs and no offense was meant. You were simply the closest target comment of someone who has to write about your exploits. I know i offendes you otherwise you wouldnt have felt the need to react with a comment.

    Sorry for the offense.

    A close friend of mine is a seal. The only thing he says is he got paid to scuba dive, shoot guns and teavel the world. We were at shooting comp and this dickhead was flageulatimg on his military exploits while my friend patiently listened. My friend nwver said a word and nodded and listened. Never said a word latwr. He disnt care… He lived it and felt no need to tell of hos exploits. He was and is the true warrior.

  73. @ASD

    “…Broken Taillight Game ™ within a minute of meeting her. She chatted me up quite a lot and was very friendly.
    Ran my Out-of-focus Headlight Game on a 50ish HSE blonde I’ve known for about a year.”

    I would appreciate an explanation of those techniques.
    ———————————————————-
    I’ll echo a lot of what I read here and elsewhere. I find myself switching from Alpha to beta, but not as much as before. I can identify past beta behaviors and cringe appropriately.

    As far as looking in the mirror, as I become more relaxed, decisive, and confident, I see a lot of good qualities. But that’s the superficial. I feel better inside. As I see more successes, I become more successful. And successes to me at this stage involve simply saying hello to a woman. Finding the words with little effort once a conversation gets underway. Employing kino and escalation. And, most importantly, enjoying the process (which yareally and RSD keep mentioning).

    I’m in my mid-40s, and have an abundance of optimism about what is unfolding.

  74. @YaReally

    Good post. I’ve been reading other comments and there seems to be this trend to equate “alpha” with “complete psychopath” You did a great job of pointing out what I will call socially beneficial alpha behavior. I even noticed how you managed to include a reference to Rollo’s Alpha Buddah. Well played.

    @James
    I can’t find the comment now, but I’m not sure why someone would automatically label you an introvert because you don’t like douchebags. Maybe you are and maybe you aren’t. Take YaReallys advice. Do what alphas do, lead betas. Find some good ones and make great things happen.

  75. “This ” reputation ” thing is akin to the BadBoy.”

    Blax, she didn’t really describe a bad boy as you and I probably know of from our time in school. What she said was, “I don’t know WHY all the girls like these guys, but like, they really like them!”

    Me, “Almost like they are supposed to like them?”

    Her, “Yes! Like they are supposed to like them…” (trailing off as things click in her head)

    As yareally said, preselection and social proof.

    I’ll say this, in 10 years there will be a lot of dead men from suicide and a lot of lonely post epiphany women if this keeps up.

    “I’ll echo a lot of what I read here and elsewhere. I find myself switching from Alpha to beta, but not as much as before. I can identify past beta behaviors and cringe appropriately.”

    The more y’all describe beta behaviors (especially what yareally has been saying) the less I feel any relation to it.

    I was raised beta as fuck for sure. West coast and all that. Son of a rape victim. “Respect women you male oppressor! All men are rapists! I wish you had been a daughter!”

    But worship women like some deity? I’ve never done that. Women terrified me, sure. I had low self esteem as a kid and young man. (and still fight it) But I was also fat and socially awkward. I broke frame if a woman pushed hard enough.

    Buy a woman food when she says she is hungry over social media? WTF??

    Avoid killing ants on the sidewalk? What??

    Say shit like, “You’re so beautiful!” when they post shit on FB? Kidding me?? If I respond, its with things like, “This picture, its much better than the last one”

    “What was wrong with the last one!?!?”

    lol

    I bought something expensive the other day. The sales guy asked me, “Does your wife need to see it first? I hate to cause any problems at home…”

    Me, “Nah, no worries”

    He just looked at me for the longest time.

    Him, “Most guys would need the boss’ permission…are you sure?”

    Me, “Well…if she’s a good girl I might even put her name on the title with mine”

    He just gave me a “you’re kidding, right?” type of laugh.

    Me, “Lets do this”

    I may not be a “demographic alpha”, but I sure as hell don’t relate to this beta supplication frame men have going on.

    Which makes me realize I REALLY squandered my youth, and could have done much better with women…dammit.

  76. @ rugby

    I’m curious how old are you?

    Old enough to know better and young enough not to care.”

    Fucking Brutal

    Women love it when I’m hard on them. Meh, I screwed up the lyrics:

    “I’m old enough to know better but I’m still too young to care”

  77. @ Tim

    The only thing more detrimental to a male than testicular cancer or heart disease is a white knight. Alpha males are the most ignorant of white knights. Why? Because they think their sex appeal is the most important aspect of living. There is much to despise and loath regarding these supposed alpha males.

    Who are alphas white knighting? Some Blue Pill alphas might white knight women, but so will Blue Pill Betas. Why do you hate alphas so much? The problem is the Blue Pill, not alphas or betas. The good news in the Red Pill is that betas can get laid if they work on improving themselves.

    I’m a natural. A half-assed, autistic natural with lots of inhibitions. I have news for you–I also work on improving myself.

  78. @ Jeff

    Apology accepted. No hard feelings. I’ve been a target of other men a few times due to their feeling threatened by me. I’ve never noticed it before, but now it explains some things. It’s eye-opening. I always thought that I had done something offensive to cause some people to dislike me. Ain’t necessarily so.

    Some women also feel threatened by me. (Remember, I’m married and go out dancing solo.) Those women are afraid that their men will imitate me and ask young, pretty women to dance.

    I create Dread when I’m out–among lots of women and men. Just by being unafraid to approach pretty women and dance and flirt with them. I don’t deliberately do anything to directly hurt anyone.

    Funny, isn’t it?

    1. @LM
      I meant that I know sports where getting pushed over but the ones I enjoy got cut for being to violent.

      Jousting is my official state sport.

  79. @Itto

    “…but I’m not sure why someone would automatically label you an introvert because you don’t like douchebags. Maybe you are and maybe you aren’t…”

    James sub-communicated that the frat-boys were exasperating him and reading between the lines, sounds like they are taking energy from him, not giving energy to him. Sounds like he’s tired of socializing with them. He has to calibrate the time spent with those he isn’t enthused with. And find venues where he is inspired/enthused.

    I’d recommend he find a mentor rather than a mentee at such a young age.(but good luck with finding a red pill mentor. I imagine they’re rare on college campuses.) College is a time for learning how to learn. He should think about finding an intellectual/educational mentor. One he can talk about intellectual stuff and not what is boring and trivial to him. Having a mentor makes things, anything, more fun.

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