Always Default to Game

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In the last comment section a very old Game conundrum got reheated. It’s the old confusion on when to “run” Game on a woman and when not to. This concern used to be debated quite a bit in my early days at SoSuave. Occasionally it comes up now and then with guys who’re new to the Red Pill and, still in the process of disconnecting their Blue Pill ideals, want to know when it’s appropriate to use their new Game superpowers for good.

It’s kind of good to revisit the fundamentals; it gives you a better perspective on how you came to a more advanced idea so I’ll get a little remedial here. Essentially the idea guys were talking about then was how Game was something they were turning on or off as situations dictated. Guys would come up with various hypothetical or actual situations where they were unsure if using Game was appropriate. Sometimes these were ethical dilemmas, other times it was just a want for avoiding bad consequences.

  • Should I use Game on the woman at the office?
  • Should I use Game on the fat chick I honestly have no interest in?
  • I find myself using Game on my overbearing Mother and it works, should I feel bad?
  • When I apply Game / Red Pill aware practices in other areas of my life I find I’m better able to enjoy the results I want, is this manipulative?

These are a few of the more common ones, but there are many others. However, the base assumption in all of these is that Game is an act and separate from that individual’s personality or “who he really is”. While I might advise against actively, overtly “gaming” women in your workplace, the Frame you establish by applying Red Pill awareness practices (i.e. Game) will be invaluable to you.

Every time I’ve dealt with this question/presumption it’s usually the case that the guy asking about the situation is still thinking in the same Blue Pill mindset he’s been conditioned to, but has more or less accepted the realities of Red Pill awareness. He may have even killed the Beta for the better part, but the process of changing one’s Blue Pill programming, to say nothing about placing himself as his own mental point of origin is a time consuming one.

The answer is a very simple one: Always default to Game.

Law 14
Pose as a Friend, Work as a Spy

Knowing about your rival is critical. Use spies to gather valuable information that will keep you a step ahead. Better still: Play the spy yourself. In polite social encounters, learn to probe. Ask indirect questions to get people to reveal their weaknesses and intentions. There is no occasion that is not an opportunity for artful spying.

Although this Law is really directed towards one’s power rivals it is also an apt illustration of how Game is applicable in situations that you may have no real intimate interests in. In this instance that artful spying takes the form of learning to read a particular woman even when you have (or wisely shouldn’t have) no real intimate interest in her.

There was (is?) a school of Game thought that a guy new to it should apply it with “less than optimal” women in order to perfect the practice. Furthermore, for the newly Red Pill aware, it’s a relatively low investment way to evaluate proof of concept and build upon it. For as much as I’d like newly aware guys to be able to go from zero to sixty with Game, I can see the logic in this.

I say that with a caveat though; you’ve still got to consider the complications and attachments that will result from your Game actions. Not just this, you even need to be at least peripherally conscious of how your Frame control, Command PresenceAmused Mastery, etc. will impact non-intimate women’s disposition and attachment to you. Bear in mind that most men, Beta men, don’t leave the mental imprint on women that a Red Pill aware, self-MPO man does, to say nothing of a more Alpha man.

Case in point: In my line of work (liquor and gaming) there are many times when I’m working a promo with my girls, or I’m meeting random women I’ve never met before, where I have to make a mental effort to be self-conscious of how I interact with them. It’s sort of the reverse situation to constantly making an effort to stay in Frame to effect Game; it’s become such a part of my nature and personality now that I default to Game.

In fact it’s not even Game to me anymore, it’s just who I am, and particularly when I’m ‘on’ and I need to interact in a social context. It flows so naturally for me I sometimes have to make an effort to dial it back when I see IOIs or I get kino from the women working for me. When women are hitting me up to come party with them after my setup time is through, that’s a reminder that I’m making an impression on them I don’t really want to follow up on.

From Mental Point of Origin:

Your mental point of origin is really your own internalized understanding about how you yourself fit into your own understanding of Frame.

If Frame is the dominant narrative of a relationship (not limited to just romantic relations), your mental point of origin is the import and priority to which you give to the people and/or ideas involved in that relationship. It is the first thought you have when considering any particular of a relationship, and it’s often so ingrained in us that it becomes an autonomous mental process.

From Recursive Game:

While it is of course vital for a man to internalize the various fundamental truths about the nature of women (hypergamy, solipsism, Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks, love based on opportunism, etc.), these fundaments need to become an ambient condition for you in your dealings. This understanding needs to become an internal – under the surface – part of your interactions with women.

Too many guys think that all of this requires some endless capacity to psychologically micromanage every aspect of their interactions, not just with the women they become (or potentially become) intimate with, but also women they work with (or for), their mothers, sisters or daughters. A common reason men initially reject the practice (not necessarily the concept) of Game is due to some imagined expectation that they’ll need to cognitively account for every variable a woman may or may not be subjecting him or herself to.

When you think of Game as some act you put on or some cognitive fencing match between you and a woman it’s easy to believe it’s just too exhausting. That’s when one of two things usually happen; Game-awareness either sinks in and becomes part of his personality, or he relaxes and/or abandons what he’s learned of Game.

And from Artificial Joy:

Once this awareness is internalized and becomes a part of a Man’s personality there is no vigilance, just awareness. There is a subconscious understanding of the order of things from a red pill perspective, but that doesn’t mean I suspect the female bank teller I’m making a deposit with is ready to rob me blind the moment I turn to walk out the door.

Neil Strauss hinted at ‘social robots’ in The Game; guys who were nothing but Game all the time and were unable to make real emotional connections. I would argue just the opposite. The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his former blue pill idealisms – that does require a constant effort.

A healthy red pill awareness requires not only a Man’s reassessment and recreation of himself, but also that he abandon his former blue pill paradigm and learn to live in a new, positive, red pill paradigm. It seems like a daunting task when you first come to terms with it, but ultimately your awareness becomes an internalized part of who you are. You can allow that to consume you with a paranoia  rooted in your former blue pill frame, or you can learn to create hope in a new system – one that you not only have more control over, but one that requires you to assume that control.

I’ve quoted these here to give you a better feel for what I mean when I say always default to Game. With that comes a practiced learning and internalization process of Red Pill awareness and a confirmation of its fundamentals. Once your personality becomes one that defaults to Game you’ll discover that Game is not just for picking up women. I’ve personally used Red Pill awareness and Game practices to close business deals, convince people with money to go with my creative ideas and even get out of a traffic ticket.

So that said, the discussion questions for the weekend (yes, I’m bringing them back) are:

Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why?
Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions?
Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations?
Have you ever applied Game and/or Red Pill aware ideas to women below your own SMV?
Do you think it’s advisable to “practice” Game with such women?

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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CaveClown
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“Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why?” I don’t hesitate wondering IF I should, I hesitate wondering HOW I should. Rookie yet. “Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions?” Game everyone, including yourself. Especially yourself. “Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations?” Yes, but only in the context of, “Can I get away with this?” and age related. I couldn’t imagine gaming someone 18-21 for instance. Feel “creepy” “Have you ever applied Game and/or Red Pill aware ideas to women below your own SMV?”… Read more »

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fujii
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One very inconsequential exception that won’t apply to 95%+ of the population: against older women relatives in certain cultures who will not only interpret your application of Game as disrespect, but who can and will obtain pyrrhic victories in retaliation. In such cases, short but polite and dull interactions and otherwise avoiding them as much as possible are the only correct plays. Think instantaneous bitch shield amplified by ten. Otherwise, I agree with Rollo that always default to game is the best way to go, as the above will not be experienced by 95%+ of people anyway and you will… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? When tired I tend to default to “factual” mode, i.e. anti-Game. It takes effort to restore frame at that point, but the alternative is worse. Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? Not any more. Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations? Not hesitant, but like Rollo there are times when I deliberately dial it back, and for similar reasons. Have you ever applied Game and/or Red Pill aware ideas to women below your own SMV? Do… Read more »

sixwayztillsunday
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Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? I only think of how to best apply game that’s congruent to my personality. I understand that if it seems even remotely unnatural to myself, it’s even more obvious to that person. Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? No, but it’s a different kind of game. There’s an inherent parallel in seducing a woman to your bed versus closing a business deal, or convincing a friend to join you on a trip, but the level of escalation, scaffolding of questioning, an assertiveness… Read more »

Frito Pendejo
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I increasingly default to game in most situations with women mostly because it’s actually really fun. I stopped viewing it as something that made me uncomfortable and started viewing each interaction as an experiment, giving me the opportunity to try and test different approaches, fine tune what works, discard what doesn’t work. It’s funny… Failure is starting to be something that doesn’t really cause me angst anymore, but rather part of the experimentation. Four recent examples: 1) Went to an outdoor fish market by myself recently. Latina waitress had a really cute face, but huge ass. Gamed her anyway. Smiled,… Read more »

Andy
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Speaking of dread game… Damn.

YoungArt
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Great post Rollo. Last month I was working at a new job. My department had like 7 girls. They were pretty much 6es and below. I’ve been red pill aware for almost a year now. Made huge improvements over this time. At this new job I kept to my new red pill aware frame (which is becoming more and more natural to me). Anyway I wouldn’t say I was gaming those 6es and 5s there. (they were way bellow my smv) however I just kept to my new frame. Fun fact is that frame alone got them attracted in me.… Read more »

BC
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Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? No, given that Game is essentially learned and applied charisma, background (passive on)? Game should be the default, and ramp up or down as necessary. Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? Are sales and presentation skills only applicable when working as a salesman or making a business presentation? Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations? Nope. All social interaction is some level of presentation.manipulation, and all relationships have a Dom and a Sub. If you are… Read more »

ShanksNes (@ShanksNes)
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I have a mental chart for placing all women i interact with on a four quadrant cycle corresponding to their period days (mostly have to make a guess and tune for corrections). For instance, one of my co-workers is a 4th weeker, so i can ask for favors on the 2nd week of every month. And she’s just one example of applying game to your colleagues. Once you’re game aware, you have more avenues to exercise more social power. When i began however, i made a critical mistake of assuming a uniform identity. I would be alpha not only with… Read more »

walawala
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Game saved and changed my life 6 years ago. I now consciously apply it as much as possible. The hardest learning is calibration. You don’t neg your mother’s friends. But you can tease, you can display amused mastery. I also notice that girls apply girl game all the time. When they act bitchy, when they shit-test, when they tease—it’s because they’re interested. When they don’t reply often it’s a ploy as well to try to get you to chase. I’m now at the point in my game development where I’ve gotten good and reached many of my own milestones. I’m… Read more »

benfromtexas
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1. Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? Sometimes. I work in the OR, so sometimes I have to use it and sometimes it’s best not to use it. I will use it 100% in business negotiations. 2. Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? At first, yes, but now I see its applicable in many day to day situations. 3. Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations? I’ve found sometimes BP considerations affect my social interactions. I was raised to be the good… Read more »

JSmith
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1)Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? No hesitation whatsoever, but sometimes I slip up and forget and fuck up. Still working on full internalization. 2) Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? Game works great any time and place. With co-workers, family, superiors, subordinates, I’ve had great success in all my relationships. 3) Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations? No hesitation whatsoever, Game doesn’t mean your actions are unethical. On the contrary, I use game to help myself and others, it’s not… Read more »

D-Man
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Game and Red pill awareness is useful for a man in many areas of life, even when handing a failure/rejection in education or in a career.
There’s nothing unethical in using red pill knowledge on all women because it helps you relate to them in a more positive way as a man!

As for low SMV women often they have inflated self perception so they can be accustomed to rejecting higher SMV men!

Dan

IAS
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Like CaveClown, what gives me more doubts is with much younger girls/women.

But I also would have trouble with office / work place situations, and similarly, in your gym or similar.

I guess the common underlying issue is worrying about negative effects that linger if you overdo it or mess up.

kfg
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The Game is not getting laid. The Game is Life. Getting laid is simply a subset of Life. The first quasi-volitional act you ever performed, very shortly after birth, was to game your mother to get what you wanted from her. It wasn’t long before you started learning how to game her more effectively, and to game your father as well. A huge chunk of your personality is how you learned to play The Game in the first few years of your life. There is conscious game and unconscious game. There is good game and bad game, but it is… Read more »

Dawg
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Well, couple of things: – I game my LTR and things are more bearable that way – arguments often end with her giggling. – Got mobbed outta my last job by my boss. Gamed all the ladies there except my boss, got lots of IOI, puppy-eyed looks and discreet advances. My boss couldn’t take it so she mobbed me out – now she’s in row for the kick. – Gamed an older lady at a shop, she starts to flirt me like a loose slut – Gamed some cops who arrested me for being a bad boy. Incident ended in… Read more »

kfg
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“Gamed all the ladies there except my boss . . .”

Your error was to use overall bad game in the context of the environment. Unless what you wanted out of the environment was to get mobbed out of it.

“The incident with my boss I discount.”

An ideal mental strategy for maintaining comfort, and thus failing to improve.

CaveClown
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Game is more a frame than anything else, no? Its having awareness, and control over, both the direction of the interaction and the subtle power plays that take place in all interactions. Pick up is only one aspect of game. I try to game everyone because I want CONTROL…not validation. (Ok, sometimes I still want validation, but that is a mindset I am working on yet) “The people who try to convince you that everyone should finish at the same time and get the same reward for it are gaming you to be inferior to them. If you doubt that… Read more »

Liz
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“Rich (successful men mostly) people game everyone they interact with non-intimately.” That sounds very lonely. from the ‘Happiness’ chapter of Scott Adam’s book “How to Fail at Everything and Still Win Big”: He gives an outline of his recommendations for happiness with some examples in this chapter. Much of it has to do with diet, sleep, exercise and so forth. He finishes with an example of himself and his success. He says after he reached the pinnacle of accomplishing everything he’d ever set out to do, and exceeding his wildest expectations, he felt suddenly and profoundly sad. “After some self-reflection… Read more »

th'wolf
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Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? == I don’t hesitate, but sometimes am not mindful enough to use it in all situations. Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? == I consider “alpha” to mean “leader” and apply the psychological stuff to all situations. Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations? == Never Have you ever applied Game and/or Red Pill aware ideas to women below your own SMV? == Since I am the alpha male, aren’t ALL women below my SMV? Obviously… Read more »

kfg
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“That sounds very lonely.”

You don’t understand it.

“He says after he reached the pinnacle of accomplishing everything he’d ever set out to do, and exceeding his wildest expectations, he felt suddenly and profoundly sad.”

He did not understand it either. What he learned, the hard way, is that he had been gamed into his goals.

Let me a try a bit of re-emphasis:

Game is getting what you want. The tricky bit isn’t even the getting, it’s actually knowing what you want. Many men die without ever having had a clue.

SJF
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Really Liz? I call total B.S. on that. A douchebag cartoonist that couldn’t settle on a decent job and was probably an uber nerd until he hit his late forties? And then became wealthy and didn’t know his true purpose in life? We’re going to take inspiration from that? CaveClown is right. The difference between success and failure is mindset. And Scott Adam’s simply didn’t have his mindset right. Simply not true of (not-super) affluent folks I know. Must be true among the affluent that suddenly became wealthy and rose to their level of incompetence. You are describing an apex… Read more »

Dawg
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@kfg

Thanks for the comment.

Game is a thing where the difference between book-smart and IRL-smart can’t be explained but must be lived through.

I know my game sucks and my state of mind leaves a bit to be desired yet I’m not gonna throw myself into a pit of despair just cuz I was nailed by a despicable cunt who has the suicide of a former colleague to be ‘proud’ of.

I use that failure experience to learn.

Liz
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“He did not understand it either. What he learned, the hard way, is that he had been gamed into his goals.”

Could you elaborate on this?
How so? He had always aspired (since childhood) to be a professional cartoonist, and he became a professional, uber-successful cartoonist.

Liz
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“Really Liz? I call total B.S. on that.
A douchebag cartoonist that couldn’t settle on a decent job and was probably an uber nerd until he hit his late forties? And then became wealthy and didn’t know his true purpose in life?”

Well, fair enough but he isn’t the only successful person who has said the same sort of thing but less succinctly. Covey (of Seven Habits of Highly Effect People) and Tony Robbins say the same sort of thing.

Liz
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“And gaming in a non-sexual way in no way equals loneliness for an individual.”
I agree, but that isn’t what I suggested. I said (from the quote) gaming EVERYONE (not some people, but a lifestyle of gaming absolutely everyone you are not intimate with) sounds lonely.

CaveClown
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“But I also would have trouble with office / work place situations, and similarly,” Workplace is actually where I excel with women and game. I ran a business a few years back and had 8-12 women working for me that were in their early twenties. They referred to themselves as, “CaveClown’s harem” I’m actually really lucky I didn’t get sued for harassment, as I went way beyond flirting a few times. I can talk to and attempt to game women in grocery stores and such easy enough too, especially if I have my youngest kid with me. Chick magnet. But… Read more »

scribblerg
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@KFG – Spot on. “Game” is merely applied social/psychological intelligence. One uses it to achieve whatever ends one seeks. “Pick up” is a specific form of social intelligence that is called “Game”, and it’s about aiming that social intelligence in the direction of getting laid. There is also LTR/married game, which is yet again a different application of the same social intelligence. In every aspect of my life, being seen as an alpha is incredibly valuable. There is also not a single situation in my existence where possessing and exercising social intelligence isn’t a huge asset. To reduce Game to… Read more »

CaveClown
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Re:

“Unhappy success”

Its part of the script for rich people. If you get rich and hold onto that money for your own self advancement, then you are a selfish asshole that only cares about himself.

But if you “give” to others to show your altruism for your fellow man, then you are a benevolent leader and therefore “worthy” of your success.

scribblerg
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CaveClown
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“And Scott Adam’s simply didn’t have his mindset right.”

Or he did, and is playing the game. I don’t know enough about the man to say which is correct.

Liz,

Tony Robbins though? Playing the game. Covey? Playing the game.

Robbins specifically is playing the game to reduce the feelings of guilt in his followers. Most people despise successful people because of jealousy, this is a way for Tony to sell people on what they perceive as a “better” rich person. Which makes it OK to pursue success as a goal, which you can’t do without buying Tony’s products!

Game recognized.

Inkwell
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I first came across game in 2006 and although finding it very interesting psychologically, I saw it as an “act” and wasn’t personally interested to learn it, seemed like too much work and I didn’t have the courage and attitude required to even try. Inner AFC still unawakened. Then I discovered this blog two months ago and my eyes were opened. Now I’m building my confidence up, and I find game comes naturally as a result in form of increasing amused mastery. I have a question about “dialling back”. I’m 6″3, handsome guy with an athletic body, and I naturally… Read more »

Liz
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Re: “Unhappy success”. Fair enough. Just to ask (internet peoples in general, of CC in particular if you want to respond)…
It has been my experience that when a person becomes very successful there is often a period of, not exactly sadness of let-down, but personal reevaluation and reflection.
Might be for unsuccessful people as well. It just seems more driven people are more likely to re-evaluate where they are standing at some point in life and change direction, sometimes in very big ways. And it all comes down to personal happiness.

Liz
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FWIW, I live in a 6000 square foot house on the beach, three stories with an elevator.
I’m not jealous of rich people (nor do I feel particularly guilty, we’ve worked and saved for what we’ve accomplished, my husband in particular).

scribblerg
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@Cave – Liz is parroting a Blue Pill script that is designed to take power away from rich, successful men. Fyi, I’ve never once heard of a female zillionaire saying such a thing. We can’t have ourselves actually acknowledging the superiority of successful men now, right? There is nothing more Blue Pill than not being able to enjoy your own power, success and wealth. Sure, give to some charity and help other people but to be unhappily successful likely means you somehow or the other don’t feel worthy of your power/success/wealth and that is as Blue Pill as it gets.… Read more »

CaveClown
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“It just seems more driven people are more likely to re-evaluate where they are standing at some point in life and change direction, sometimes in very big ways” You just answered your own question. You see “he got rich and now he is doing a 180” You didn’t see the other 57 times he changed tracks before he got rich. Before he “made it”. So you are either seeing people that realize that they pursued something they never really wanted, “Game is getting what you want. The tricky bit isn’t even the getting, it’s actually knowing what you want. Many… Read more »

CaveClown
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For the record, I give money to help animals (dogs in particular) as I feel they are the only true “innocents” in the world.

Now I am worthy of my success.

Whew…that’s a load off my mind!

lol

Liz
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Thanks for the response, CC. Interesting stuff. Well, just from a personal standpoint I saw this in our famliy life with my husband. He just found the direction he was going unfulfilling (even though it was what he had wanted all of his life) so we 180ed. Happened just about overnight for him. I know him very very well. Scribblerg, I was smart enough to buy Apple when it was almost a penny stock. You don’t know enough about me to analyze my person motivations. Believe what you want. Anyway, won’t bother you all again for a while. Thanks for… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? I hesitated when I had an oxytocin addiction to a woman’s face and felt shy around her. Sometimes I lack the mental energy late night when I’m at Walmart to joke with the cashier and sometimes I lack the habit of “bringing the party” to other people. My habit is to be reserved. Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? No. Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations? I have no ethical considerations with using Game as… Read more »

kfg
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@Dawg: That is the best possible response to me you could have given. Kudos. Here is the gist of your error – you defined your purpose in the workplace as getting IOIs from all the ladies. When I have found myself in a similar position my purpose was to get money. @Liz: “Could you elaborate on this?” I could, but you did it yourself right here: “It just seems more driven people are more likely to re-evaluate where they are standing at some point in life and change direction, sometimes in very big ways.” In phase one they were striving… Read more »

CaveClown
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“In phase one they were striving toward a “success” that was given to them from outside. It was what other people wanted, and they were gamed into pursuing it” You mean like my getting married?!?!?!? Are you saying I was gamed by my mother, father, society, and the media into marrying a woman because I should def discard my immature desire to bang multiple women and instead man up and dedicate my life to her and then by extension our children? You mean THAT is why I am unhappy being married? You mean THAT is why I am unhappy with… Read more »

kfg
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@Liz: “I live in a 6000 square foot house on the beach, three stories with an elevator.” Which for me would be abject failure. @Scribbler: “Want to know what to do with 20 million bux? Buy a 2 million dollar luxury sailing yacht and go see the world for 5 years.” If your goal is to go cruising for 5 years, the most likely route to success is to leave now in a simple, seaworthy 24 footer that needn’t cost any more than $30k. If your goal is to own a 2 million dollar luxury yacht, you will likely have… Read more »

kfg
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None of my major goals are achievable. What else does a man need to be happy?

CaveClown
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Kfg,

What else?

I’m in the middle of a nihilistic existential quandary, so beats the fuck out of me.

I’m either on the edge of a mindset breakthrough that will bring me to the next level, or I’m a step away from failure. One of those.

theasdgamer
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“Rich (successful men mostly) people game everyone they interact with non-intimately.”

Yes. Gaming involves engaging other people. Not lonely in the slightest. Think of people like Liz’s husband, Mike. He games people alla time. Mike is engaging, per Liz.

Dark Triad Man
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“Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why?” Hesitation occurs to any practitioner of the Way when there is not seamless engagement with encounters from the basis of correct posture. Hesitation comes from the stopping of the mind. Decision not to apply the Way to an engagement with another person is not hesitation,it is simply a different conscious posture. That does not mean that such suspension of the Way is correct. Typically it is not. The Way is what a practitioner strives to embody with flow and power comes from that flow. If your Game… Read more »

kfg
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@Cave Clown:

Welcome to the razor’s edge.

Dark Triad Man
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@CaveClown – “It ALL comes down to living in your own frame…all of it.”

You are on the way.

It is beautiful in the world.

Regards,

Ivan

http://www.darktriadman.com

CaveClown
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Since we are discussing money… For the longest time I pursued wealth as a way to prove myself. Validation, appreciation, and especially showing up my father. It brought me no satisfaction or contentment, even though I thought it would. Cue the red pill, and specifically rollos work. I am now shifting gears to align my finances into residual income. (Commonly referred to as passive income) It will take a few years to do, but the result is closer to what I want, which is freedom from being in an employer’s or contract’s frame. I really don’t like answering to anyone… Read more »

Dark Triad Man
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@CaveClown – “I’m either on the edge of a mindset breakthrough that will bring me to the next level, or I’m a step away from failure. One of those.”

When you realize they are not disparate, but that both are the same division by zero – you will have attained mastery.

Within every encounter lies the singularity of mastery. Resolve yourself towards singularity and the ridiculous becomes the sublime, the profound becomes the ridiculous, and the dark world spreads herself and lies panting and slick at your feet.

Regards,

Ivan
http://www.darktriadman.com

CaveClown
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Ivan, thanks.

Kfg…”razors edge”, glad to be here lol.

I look forward to the challenge.

Dark Triad Man
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@CaveClown – “For the longest time I pursued wealth as a way to prove myself. Validation, appreciation, and especially showing up my father. It brought me no satisfaction or contentment, even though I thought it would.” It did teach you perseverance, endurance and focus. That said, adaptation of purpose is entirely within the prerogative of man. “Cue the red pill, and specifically rollos work.” Mr. Tomassi’s work is a seminal and powerful body of knowledge that I cannot recommend highly enough to any man seeking to shatter his illusions and move from blue pill to red pill. There are many… Read more »

CaveClown
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Ivan,

Not answering to anyone includes my own emotions…

…and not being a slave to how I “feel”

Gotta game yourself too.

Can’t be a slave to my dick either…

Society wants me to be a slave to both.

Creating my own bondage as it were.

Dark Triad Man
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@CaveClown – To be free, requires the ability to shrug. The shrug is not an expression of uncaring disregard.

Atlas shrugged.

You must also shrug.

Atlas then moved into the world with the power to move it.

Regards,

Ivan
http://www.darktriadman.com

Liz
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Sorry, just wanted to answer posts addressed to me: “Which for me would be abject failure.” That’s just the guest house! (I kid) But I wouldn’t even call living paycheck to paycheck and in total squalor “abject failure”. I’ve done both. Spent a great deal of time living poorly, and I never would have called it failure. I think it depends on what direction one’s life is going. Gamer: “Mike games people alla time.” Maybe so. But he too finds the most personal fulfillment in helping others. He’d tell you that’s what he likes about his job. And when they… Read more »

walawala
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One general question about game. If always approaching, always escalating even though you could get blown is the default alpha position—if done in a non-needy way–doesn’t rejection lower your value? Don’t blow outs lower your value?

I have a tough time reconciling boldness and rejection.

theasdgamer
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@ Walawala doesn’t rejection lower your value If you stop approaching, it will. Continuing to approach despite rejection is a DHV–it shows a Zero Fucks Given mentality. Confidence. Status based on an Iron Frame ™. Once a broad accepted my request to dance after 15 consecutive rejections. She was better looking than any of the women who had rejected my invitations to dance. And immediately hit me with two shit tests, the first one being, “You get rejected a lot, don’t you?” Notice that I didn’t have to neg her, sexualize, or do anything you normally need to do. My… Read more »

Roused
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@Rollo

You once made a comment to let you know if I had any questions….well I do have some questions as I try to sort something out. Failed a major shit test with my GF that is a bit troubling.

Private email provided if that’s something you reply to. rousedone @ gmail

kfg
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“That’s just the guest house! (I kid)” My second wife’s cousins had heard about the big house that her parents had just bought. On their first visit, as they drove up the drive, they took a look and said, “That’s not so big. It’s only a bit bigger than ours.” They were looking at the garage. “But I wouldn’t even call living paycheck to paycheck and in total squalor “abject failure”.” Again you fail completely to understand. I have a positive aversion to your house. I seek not to have it, or anything remotely resembling it. Give it to me… Read more »

Liz
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“Again you fail completely to understand. I have a positive aversion to your house. I seek not to have it, or anything remotely resembling it. Give it to me and I will dispose of it. If need be at a loss.”

Ah, got it. (and, fwiw, agreed)
Where and how we live wasn’t my decision.

Zen
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Girl kisses another boy in front of her boyfriend:
https://mobile.twitter.com/WORLDSTAR/status/662868316172587008

You want to see the trends of the future? Look no further than our youth. Open Hypergamy and Open Cuckholding will soon be the norm.

enrique
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scribblerg: “Fyi, I’ve never once heard of a female zillionaire saying such a thing.” I’ve never heard a woman who is financially successful or in any position of power and/or authority ever be apologetic about it, including the improper (morally) use of said power/authority, in the latter case. Women in high positions, whether by social class, status, wealth, whom they are married to (who have the aforementioned) absolutely shit on everyone else without a second thought. At least men start great philanthropy, or mentor, etc. Not saying there’s no men that aren’t assholes at the top, but AWALT when they… Read more »

Kira
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Thank you Rollo.I have successfully changed my mindset to Alpha.I successful rewired my neurons in my brain.I prefer sticking to the reality in life, i made lifetime goals today of which no matter what the fuck happens am going to achieve them.I realized that a man MUST make his life goal to be his own priority;once he does so he becomes valuable.That fact simply satisifies basic biology.Women desire males with a positive purpose; Any productive purpose that supports our species.Its basic biology that was hidden all along. YOU CANNOT BEAT SCIENCE.Science shows trends…it also respects statistics.It also shows why being… Read more »

kfg
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J1J2
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Male attractiveness is for the most part a social skill founded on a psychological state. Part of what annoys women about game is that the “fake it till you make it” syndrome can succeed in instilling the requisite psychological state in those of us who were not (in their view) naturally meant to have it. (In a world where all right-thinking people, i.e. women, know that such men should just give up and accept their rightful lowly place and settle for fatties. It is so immoral to scramble women’s signals.) I am not that worried about “practicing”, because women’s standards… Read more »

enrique
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KFG: when I see shit like that, all I can imagine is that it will absolutely take a major war on American soil to reset. Unbelievable. These kids are so fragile that it’s impossible to imagine them, or our nation standing up to any other nation, especially if we were invaded.

Anonymous Reader
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One general question about game. If always approaching, always escalating even though you could get blown is the default alpha position—if done in a non-needy way–doesn’t rejection lower your value? Don’t blow outs lower your value? Only if you allow it. Let’s say that I’m in a retail store where I’ve chatted up one of the clerks, an expat from outside the US, who then flits to the back of the store, in order to find an extra shirt in my size. By the way, if I never approached her as a woman rather than has a store-clerk-robot, I wouldn’t… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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kfg – Definitely r-selection at work. Quite the special snowflake, eh?

rugby11ljh
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“Bear in mind that most men, Beta men, don’t leave the mental imprint on women that a Red Pill aware, self-MPO man does, to say nothing of a more Alpha man.”

Damn true

SJF
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@ Liz No need to apologize for making comments and no need for squeamish smileys. You advanced the discussion by bringing up a decent question. Thanks for playing. @ Walawa No need to question Law #28. Enter Action with Boldness If you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will infect your execution. Timidity is dangerous: Better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no one honors the timid. Getting blown out after entering with boldness is simply a… Read more »

kfg
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The Fempocalypse cometh. Wrapped in NERF so it doesn’t stub its precious little toe.

SJF
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@ Caveclown Props for honoring a man’s way and living on your edge today. Good will come of it. You will be better at being a man. “I’m in the middle of a nihilistic existential quandary, so beats the fuck out of me. I’m either on the edge of a mindset breakthrough that will bring me to the next level, or I’m a step away from failure. One of those.” I’m still bored at halftime of the football game. A reiterated chapter (I think I might’ave posted this before) from Deida: Know Your Real Edge and Don’t Fake it It… Read more »

SJF
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Ok. I screwed that code. But you get the idea.

I better go back to watching football.

CaveClown
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Sjf, thanks.

I’ve realized that I am living far short of my edge.

Far short.

No more.

Painful as fuck though.

I’m working on embracing the pain.

SJF
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I’d recommend a healthy investment in a dose of Stoicism.

http://www.returnofkings.com/64452/the-principal-tenets-of-stoicism-by-seneca

And some Antifragility (being strengthened by volatility instead of being weakened by it).

http://www.rooshv.com/review-of-antifragility-by-nassim-taleb

hank holiday
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I created a fake online profile with a picture of a guy who looks like me. The goal was just to practice escalating over text, which I would use on a girl between when I got a girl’s number and Day 2. Since I was doing this with girls I had never met, they all of course flaked once it started to get sexual, but I still got a lot of good practice. Each dashed line separates a different girl. ———————— (9:14pm) ME: So, how long have you been an undercover Russian spy? (9:34pm) HER: Welp that’s original lol (9:37pm)… Read more »

Luxocrat
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@ Hank Holiday

What ever you do, man, don’t become her time whore: someone she uses to pass the time of day when she’s bored at work, home, traveling in between, etc. This is a lot of attention she’s devouring.

cheupez
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Yet, I believe that there is such a thing as too much game. When you game a young shapely woman until she strips, draws the curtains, and dances for you naked by the window with the lights on as you video tape her? And you haven’t even told her to do it? I have not done the threesome with a goat thing yet, but I am sure with game one can pull it off. Of course game works, and is powerful. Therefore, it should be tempered with moderation. Game is amoral, but its application can be exploitative. I am not… Read more »

Dark Triad Man
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Simply avoid being gratuitous or insufficient.

scribblerg
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@Liz – It’s possible that you could have bought Apple stock and made money on it, and also be parroting a Blue Pill trope. Just to be clear…

scribblerg
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@Kira – Suggestion: Try breaking your comment up into several paragraphs, it makes it much more readable.

You said something that really grabbed me though. “practicing on positive masculinity has profound effects on women”. Perhaps this will be how the bottom up change I’d love to see could begin and grow? Women do change how they behave around me after a while. In a sense they just calm down and are less worried and volatile. Being in a pleasant frame seems to soothe the neurosis of women. Whatever, great comment.

scribblerg
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@Liz – Fyi, I second SJF’s comment, I was not trying to shut you up nor insult you. You generally advance the conversation here and are clearly not here to “sort us idiots out”, contrary to the approach of most women who comment here. I accepted that this is not a male space a while ago, so I no longer hector women to GTFO of here. I only denigrate cuntery here, and you clearly don’t do that. That said, I still think what you presented is a trope intended to shame and denigrate male financial success (not by you though,… Read more »

scribblerg
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@SJF – You must know Nassim Taleb is a huge fan of Seneca and Stoicism, yes? Great comment above. @Rollo – Living on one’s edge is the way of an actualized man for sure, brilliant, epic, amazing comment. Thanks for it! @Cave – The nihilism should be a temporary stage. My experience of it came down to being uncomfortable living life as a selfish prick. At some level, I found putting my needs and wants first to be wrong. But over time, it has become reflexive and to my surprise, people respect me more now, not less. What sealed the… Read more »

chronicalibash
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asd:

“You get rejected a lot, don’t you?”
How did you respond?

Dark Triad Man:
“When you realize they are not disparate, but that both are the same division by zero – you will have attained mastery.”
Can you elaborate? I see failure v. success as an either/or proposition.

I have been slowly learning Game for two years, and I am beginning to see its application across most aspects of life. Fascinating.

kfg
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@chronicalibash:

Flip a coin. Heads is success. Tails is failure.

Did your flip fail? Flip it again. Flip it enough times and you’ll have a pile of failures, and a pile of successes. No single flip will have any meaning any more.

It is only when you make everything ride on one particular flip that it becomes a “do or die” event; so don’t do that.

SJF
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ScribblerG, Yes to the Stoicism inherent in Taleb’s writing. I bring the topic up because I heard both Julien and Tyler from RSD mentioning “antifragility” in regards to Game in videos about mindset recently. I was enlightened to the additional value of Stoicism in regards to red pill awareness while reading Taleb a couple months ago. Life’s too short and there are too many grand things at one’s disposal to engage in and waste time with nihilism. Stoicism is built upon a concept of Optionality. Low downside and unlimited upside. Red pill awareness was was not a bitter pill for… Read more »

SJF
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“One general question about game. If always approaching, always escalating even though you could get blown is the default alpha position—if done in a non-needy way–doesn’t rejection lower your value? Don’t blow outs lower your value? I have a tough time reconciling boldness and rejection.” And the answer to “Don’t blowouts lower your value?” is answered by the concept of Optionality. An option (in the stock market) gives you for a small price, limited downside, with unlimited upside. A blowout only lowers your value by a little. Not taking the chance in the first place guarantees you will not have… Read more »

scribblerg
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@KFG et al – A few thoughts on risk… – Taking a risk that has a negative payoff which stops you from taking any more risks is to be avoided. Taking a 1% chance of dying should be avoided as death takes away all future chances. This is also a way of thinking about “fragility”. Example: If you have lots of debt (based on assets as collateral) an economic downturn can wipe you out while having low debt could mean that the same downturn only means your net worth dips for a while. – Another way of saying the above… Read more »

scribblerg
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@DarkTriad – I just subbed…Seems like the next step for me. The whole idea used to piss me off/scare me. I’m ready to step up to my true power. I’ll keep you guys posted here. Looks very interesting.

Roused
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I spent much of yesterday completely frustrated with myself and having a self-induced pity party. Pissed at myself for allowing rooted blue pill habits to kick in. Self-loathing, yes even some of that. For all of you guys who live the Red Pill daily with strength and determination I envy you as it sucks to fail a major shit test. It just fucking sucks. Got my ass outside first thing this morning with coffee, the cool crisp air and sunrise as I knew some clarity would come with that after wallowing with the my Friday night. I posted my email… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ Luxocrat, Hank Holidy

Hank Holiday

What ever you do, man, don’t become her time whore: someone she uses to pass the time of day when she’s bored at work, home, traveling in between, etc. This is a lot of attention she’s devouring.

Women want male attention because of their insecurities. I wrote a post about that: https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2015/11/07/womens-insecurity/

Parcel out your attention like it’s gold. It is.

scribblerg
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Re: Game and getting blown out – My guess is you aren’t looking for and generating interest as carefully as you should be if this is happening to you a lot. I don’t game women with the purpose of fucking them (only one area of my life where I apply social intelligence) unless they show interest. You might as well try to fuck a brick wall and claim you “got blown out” if there is no interest. Measure twice, cut once. And oh yeah, if you aren’t generating interest you should probably work on being and demonstrating higher value. This… Read more »

kfg
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@Scribbler: “However, that doesn’t mean there isn’t a huge utility to understanding the impacts of outcomes and forecasting/betting in smart ways with respect to them.” Obviously I used a simple, well understood, 50/50 model, just to get the idea across. I am not an adrenaline junkie. Frankly, I dislike the “rush,” which makes me generally risk averse, or, to put it in the vernacular, a pussy. Nonetheless, I often take risks that leave onlookers quaking just to watch. All my risks, however, are well calculated and more often than not the reason observers fear just to watch me is because… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ Chroniclibash “You get rejected a lot, don’t you?” How did you respond? Lasered her, amused mastery grin, said, “Tough crowd” in a matter of fact tone of voice. Smashed the 5h1t test, which is why she immediately hit me with a 2nd test, “Are you married”…”Yes”…”You’re not wearing a ring” (3rd 5h1t test because I didn’t pass the second–correct response was something like “not to a perv like you” with a cocky grin)…”Doesn’t fit anymore” (another fail because I answered her question directly–better answer was “I keep it in my red bikini briefs”)…”I don’t dance with married men”…I smiled,… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@scribblerg
“A man without volition, without that lively, playful, creative and driven spirit is no man at all.”
http://tynan.com/?_

@Roused
Be gentle man it reads as if you are growing slowly.

@kfg
“The real risk only begins when she says “Yes.”
The funny part is rejection is self growth. But when your accepted even in a sexual way… It creates a huge level to management.

Softek
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Hesitation to use Game: The girl I’ve been seeing has been giving me an ultimatum: “If you won’t be my boyfriend then I can’t see you anymore.” I’ve mentioned passively and directly potential interest in fucking other women down the road, and she says that she can’t do that. That’s unacceptable to her. However, she’s continuing to see me. She’s told me this has been the best sex of her life. I’ve only been with 4 women, but that’s given me at least some reference point, and having seen a ton of porn, I honestly I can’t imagine a woman… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ softek, Rollo The girl I’ve been seeing has been giving me an ultimatum: “If you won’t be my boyfriend then I can’t see you anymore.” standard 5h1t test…she’s trying to impose her frame on you…lol…now you need to flip her back into your frame…say something like, “I wouldn’t want you to go blind from masturbating…you need to date other guys”…lol, she won’t want to and this will create Dread in her because it’s push/pull…implies that you have options and are more willing to walk away than she is…a Zero Fucks Given ™ mindset…see Rollo’s post about the partner who… Read more »

SJF
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Roused, If I get what you are saying it is: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/40/02/58/400258d5f549a1d2bf0c3d7d5a579af2.jpg It’s time to “Lighten up Frances”. You are way to hard on yourself. Watch what she does, not what she says. You are actually just finding it hard to swallow the Red Pill. Women like her are the problem. The problem is not you. She is not the only one out there for you. She is just an option. You have Oneitis and it shows. You are also stuck in the middle of the Kubler-Ross stages of unplugging. http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/ Go easy on yourself. It is entirely possible for you… Read more »

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