Always Default to Game

default_game

In the last comment section a very old Game conundrum got reheated. It’s the old confusion on when to “run” Game on a woman and when not to. This concern used to be debated quite a bit in my early days at SoSuave. Occasionally it comes up now and then with guys who’re new to the Red Pill and, still in the process of disconnecting their Blue Pill ideals, want to know when it’s appropriate to use their new Game superpowers for good.

It’s kind of good to revisit the fundamentals; it gives you a better perspective on how you came to a more advanced idea so I’ll get a little remedial here. Essentially the idea guys were talking about then was how Game was something they were turning on or off as situations dictated. Guys would come up with various hypothetical or actual situations where they were unsure if using Game was appropriate. Sometimes these were ethical dilemmas, other times it was just a want for avoiding bad consequences.

  • Should I use Game on the woman at the office?
  • Should I use Game on the fat chick I honestly have no interest in?
  • I find myself using Game on my overbearing Mother and it works, should I feel bad?
  • When I apply Game / Red Pill aware practices in other areas of my life I find I’m better able to enjoy the results I want, is this manipulative?

These are a few of the more common ones, but there are many others. However, the base assumption in all of these is that Game is an act and separate from that individual’s personality or “who he really is”. While I might advise against actively, overtly “gaming” women in your workplace, the Frame you establish by applying Red Pill awareness practices (i.e. Game) will be invaluable to you.

Every time I’ve dealt with this question/presumption it’s usually the case that the guy asking about the situation is still thinking in the same Blue Pill mindset he’s been conditioned to, but has more or less accepted the realities of Red Pill awareness. He may have even killed the Beta for the better part, but the process of changing one’s Blue Pill programming, to say nothing about placing himself as his own mental point of origin is a time consuming one.

The answer is a very simple one: Always default to Game.

Law 14
Pose as a Friend, Work as a Spy

Knowing about your rival is critical. Use spies to gather valuable information that will keep you a step ahead. Better still: Play the spy yourself. In polite social encounters, learn to probe. Ask indirect questions to get people to reveal their weaknesses and intentions. There is no occasion that is not an opportunity for artful spying.

Although this Law is really directed towards one’s power rivals it is also an apt illustration of how Game is applicable in situations that you may have no real intimate interests in. In this instance that artful spying takes the form of learning to read a particular woman even when you have (or wisely shouldn’t have) no real intimate interest in her.

There was (is?) a school of Game thought that a guy new to it should apply it with “less than optimal” women in order to perfect the practice. Furthermore, for the newly Red Pill aware, it’s a relatively low investment way to evaluate proof of concept and build upon it. For as much as I’d like newly aware guys to be able to go from zero to sixty with Game, I can see the logic in this.

I say that with a caveat though; you’ve still got to consider the complications and attachments that will result from your Game actions. Not just this, you even need to be at least peripherally conscious of how your Frame control, Command PresenceAmused Mastery, etc. will impact non-intimate women’s disposition and attachment to you. Bear in mind that most men, Beta men, don’t leave the mental imprint on women that a Red Pill aware, self-MPO man does, to say nothing of a more Alpha man.

Case in point: In my line of work (liquor and gaming) there are many times when I’m working a promo with my girls, or I’m meeting random women I’ve never met before, where I have to make a mental effort to be self-conscious of how I interact with them. It’s sort of the reverse situation to constantly making an effort to stay in Frame to effect Game; it’s become such a part of my nature and personality now that I default to Game.

In fact it’s not even Game to me anymore, it’s just who I am, and particularly when I’m ‘on’ and I need to interact in a social context. It flows so naturally for me I sometimes have to make an effort to dial it back when I see IOIs or I get kino from the women working for me. When women are hitting me up to come party with them after my setup time is through, that’s a reminder that I’m making an impression on them I don’t really want to follow up on.

From Mental Point of Origin:

Your mental point of origin is really your own internalized understanding about how you yourself fit into your own understanding of Frame.

If Frame is the dominant narrative of a relationship (not limited to just romantic relations), your mental point of origin is the import and priority to which you give to the people and/or ideas involved in that relationship. It is the first thought you have when considering any particular of a relationship, and it’s often so ingrained in us that it becomes an autonomous mental process.

From Recursive Game:

While it is of course vital for a man to internalize the various fundamental truths about the nature of women (hypergamy, solipsism, Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks, love based on opportunism, etc.), these fundaments need to become an ambient condition for you in your dealings. This understanding needs to become an internal – under the surface – part of your interactions with women.

Too many guys think that all of this requires some endless capacity to psychologically micromanage every aspect of their interactions, not just with the women they become (or potentially become) intimate with, but also women they work with (or for), their mothers, sisters or daughters. A common reason men initially reject the practice (not necessarily the concept) of Game is due to some imagined expectation that they’ll need to cognitively account for every variable a woman may or may not be subjecting him or herself to.

When you think of Game as some act you put on or some cognitive fencing match between you and a woman it’s easy to believe it’s just too exhausting. That’s when one of two things usually happen; Game-awareness either sinks in and becomes part of his personality, or he relaxes and/or abandons what he’s learned of Game.

And from Artificial Joy:

Once this awareness is internalized and becomes a part of a Man’s personality there is no vigilance, just awareness. There is a subconscious understanding of the order of things from a red pill perspective, but that doesn’t mean I suspect the female bank teller I’m making a deposit with is ready to rob me blind the moment I turn to walk out the door.

Neil Strauss hinted at ‘social robots’ in The Game; guys who were nothing but Game all the time and were unable to make real emotional connections. I would argue just the opposite. The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his former blue pill idealisms – that does require a constant effort.

A healthy red pill awareness requires not only a Man’s reassessment and recreation of himself, but also that he abandon his former blue pill paradigm and learn to live in a new, positive, red pill paradigm. It seems like a daunting task when you first come to terms with it, but ultimately your awareness becomes an internalized part of who you are. You can allow that to consume you with a paranoia  rooted in your former blue pill frame, or you can learn to create hope in a new system – one that you not only have more control over, but one that requires you to assume that control.

I’ve quoted these here to give you a better feel for what I mean when I say always default to Game. With that comes a practiced learning and internalization process of Red Pill awareness and a confirmation of its fundamentals. Once your personality becomes one that defaults to Game you’ll discover that Game is not just for picking up women. I’ve personally used Red Pill awareness and Game practices to close business deals, convince people with money to go with my creative ideas and even get out of a traffic ticket.

So that said, the discussion questions for the weekend (yes, I’m bringing them back) are:

Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why?
Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions?
Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations?
Have you ever applied Game and/or Red Pill aware ideas to women below your own SMV?
Do you think it’s advisable to “practice” Game with such women?

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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YaReally
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YaReally
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Andy is the type of guy I’m trying to help not exist lol The guy who got married not realizing what he was signing up for and not having gotten banging random girls fully out of his system, the guy who didn’t know his SMV would raise as he got older and hot young chicks would blush around him and didn’t know his wife would hit the wall dramatically and her SMV would plummet and didn’t realize that legally tying himself into the whole situation would trap him between being “immoral” cheating on her and breaking his word/contract (and possibly… Read more »

IAS
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@YaReally: I have such a hard time having a genuine abundance mentality. Surely part of it is my N=1 count, and even if I could internalize an abundance mentality for women in general, it seems near unanimous by those that are advanced in RP knowledge that LTR “quality” women really ARE SCARCE.

Of course the question for me is going to be if my wife is LTR “quality” as I sort out my logistics, increase my SMV (by lifting etc) and get better at game (passive dread, passing LTR shit tests etc).

Andy
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“Now everyone involved will suffer regardless of what path he takes.”

C’est la vie. Regardless, there’s tons of guys reading this way worse off than me. I’ll figure something out.

CaveClown
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If Yareally s buddy is having a hard time getting laid, what actual chance does a balding guy in the bottom third for height have?

Its hard to have abundance with women when I am realistically not anywhere close to the top 20% of guys because of genetics.

Defeatist attitude I know, but truth, no?

Dutchman
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@Cave

YaReally always says that’s it’s game, not height, or looks that matter. I’m sure the problem his friend is having is that his game isn’t tight enough, not looks or whatever.

Sun Wukong
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@IAS I have such a hard time having a genuine abundance mentality. Surely part of it is my N=1 count Not necessarily. I have an N of 19. Rarely were any of those 19 what I would consider genuinely attractive, but it’s far from an N of 1. Scarcity isn’t necessarily about how many options you have. It’s about how many desirable options you feel you have. I have HB4 or less options out the ass and an N count largely composed of them. Still doesn’t alleviate scarcity. I rarely in my day to day life or even when I’m… Read more »

CaveClown
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Dutchman that doesn’t fit with my victim narrative

Lol

Forge the Sky
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Hey Sun, how good are you at lying to yourself?

Sun Wukong
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@Forge

No. That’s the bitch of a strong sense of self-awareness. Self-deception doesn’t work well. I’ve never been very good at it.

Longgone
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Scribblerg, “Field Report: Date with age appropriate, hard bodied, former hottie last night. Lol – what was I thinking?” Hey Glenn, for the selfish reason of being immensely fucking inspired by your stories of banging 20-somethings I’m glad your “age -appropriate” (!?) encounter didn’t work out. I’m totally over the concept of age-appropriate. 50+ year-olds are practically invisible to me now and I get a kick out of my daughter (25yo) acting outraged (sort-of) that I’ve dated a couple girls close to her age. Can’t seem to get any plates really spinning, but am getting out and approaching, getting numbers,… Read more »

Andy
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@Sun

I’m not going to be able to tell you anything you don’t already know, but I find the techniques in this book really good for changing your mindset. It’s basically NLP on yourself. It works though. You can probably find it free somewhere.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Law-Attraction-Made-Simple/dp/0980194180

IAS
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About the bicycle thing, I think it is important to add it isn’t all on the male cyclist behaviour:

http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/archive/overtaking110906.html

Mentioned in the hilarious optiong that instead of cycling like a woman, you can simply pretend to be one by wearing a wig…

https://www.eta.co.uk/2011/04/01/safest-bicycle-helmet-has-built-in-wig/

Quote:
“The Helmet Hair design, which is intended to be worn by both men and women, was inspired by cycle helmet research carried out by Bath University. The study revealed that car drivers leave less room when overtaking a cyclist wearing a helmet, but a much wider berth when passing a female rider with long hair.”

Forge the Sky
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“No. That’s the bitch of a strong sense of self-awareness. Self-deception doesn’t work well. I’ve never been very good at it.” Alright, I figured. I used to think the same way about myself. It’s tricky trying to help ya because you know a lot and have tried a lot of things, so there’s a high possibility of being redundant. And what I’m gonna describe may well be one of those things that only really makes sense if you already ‘get’ it. Like I said earlier, a lot of this stuff is pretty zen that way. Anyways, I’ll try my best… Read more »

ETA
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Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? Never really think about it. I just see game as part of having Social Intelligence. Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? Definitely not, at least with women, you don’t have to go all the way there. Game is fun and has helped me a lot with secretaries and women working in public services. Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations? I used to, I’m continuosly lowering my hesitations to using game, and working on it. Game… Read more »

SJF
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@Forge the Sky and Sun Wukong Good explanation Forge about trying to change one’s mindset. What you are explaining with your four point process of reprogramming your mindset is pretty much the essence of “The Biology of Desire: Why Addiction Is Not a Disease” by Marc Lewis. It is an active process of reprogramming your brain because your brain is neuroplastic. It can change readily with the right inputs and modifications and limbic system (mid brain) retraining to get out of the ruts you are in. It is entirely possible the retrain your brain to get out of any rut… Read more »

YaReally
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@CaveClown @Dutchman “YaReally always says that’s it’s game, not height, or looks that matter. I’m sure the problem his friend is having is that his game isn’t tight enough, not looks or whatever.” Ya it’s his game, he just got out of like a 7 year LTR so his game is sloppy His txting is like gay LTR txting and he’s used to having LTR sex lined up to fall back on so for years he wasn’t really pushing hard infield because he could just go have “a fun interaction” and pat himself on the back that a girl “really… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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@Forge, @Rollo Thanks for the advice previously in this thread. I get what you’re saying. And you’re right. Just took a couple days to sink in. @SJF Either you’re way beyond me or behind me. I don’t know, but I still only get about half of what you’re saying. I still don’t get how you can view a woman as special, or not want to fuck younger women… It would be cool to be there. Thanks for the half I understand though. As for what I want. Kind of like what Forge was describing above. I want to master social… Read more »

SJF
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@ Andy Half of me is way beyond you. The other half is behind you. The half of me that is way beyond you is mastery over my own circumstances and control of the direction of my life. See, I have that power currently. I’m satisfied in my own skin and things work out of inspiration for me these days, rather than frustration or desperation. I had a huge desire to learn, adapt and further my skills 30 years ago. And I still cultivate those today. And I am a keen observer of behavior, both directed inwards to myself and… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Andy Ya I hit some pretty top-bottom concepts this thread! Something a bit more bottom-up: If you do decide to sleep around, remember this 1. Study how people get away with it (lots of stuff in the Manosphere about it) and how people get caught. Learn what mistakes to avoid. 2. Never give a mistress any whiff of provisioning or commitment. Your relationship is about sex. Only. She probably shouldn’t even know what your real name is, or what your job is. 3. If you’re caught, do not apologize for having sex outside the marriage. An apology is subconsciously perceived… Read more »

Dark Triad Man
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@Forge the Sky – “It’s the flinch that invites the attack.”

Timelessly true. Well said.

Regards,

Ivan

http://www.darktriadman.com

YaReally
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Since this discussion is turning towards “eh fuck it go for it” here’s some stuff for Andy lol: http://yareallyarchive.com/search/?q=oltr http://yareallyarchive.com/search/?q=pltr http://yareallyarchive.com/search/?q=monogamy oLTR = Open LTR where you both are free to fuck other people pLTR = Primary LTR where you fuck girls on the side and she’s monogamous to you I break down how to make them both work and link resources and shit in those links. It’s stuff you should look at before even REMOTELY attempting this shit. It’s not techncially impossible but there are a lot of dynamics you should understand to avoid divorce rape and a broken… Read more »

CaveClown
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Andy the two biggest things I have seen with cheating men getting caught 1. a jealous lover on her side 2. him being found on social media and linking to his wife

beware the jealous husband or boyfriend that send your wife a Facebook message

CaveClown
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keep in mind a beta orbiters will throw you under the bus if he realizes she’s sleeping with a married man

is your wife on Facebook with the same last name?

friend of mine got caught that exact way

Andy
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Andy
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lol, thx guys. If it happens it will be a while. I don’t have time to read a fucking book let alone figure out logistics to work on pick up. @yaReally Dude, I’m reading your whole archive. Shit man. I’m only on 5/2012 and my mind is blown. I didn’t realize that you and @Rollo have been fighting about looks for 3 years. lol. I’m starting to wonder if you guys just had that little spat on the MiD conference for our benefit. I didn’t realize how in-depth the PUA understanding of women really is… Also, how dedicated you are… Read more »

YaReally
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@Andy “If it happens it will be a while. I don’t have time to read a fucking book let alone figure out logistics to work on pick up.” It’s one of those things where it’s like look, I get what you’re saying because frankly you remind me of me and my own wiring and how I would’ve ended up if I had gotten married so I can relate to what you’re saying over the guys who view banging an old chick who lost all her teeth opening diaper bags for your poopy kid as sexy, so I can tell you’re… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Second @Yareally on the time this takes. If you’re actively raising a family and have to schedule time away this might be tricky. But if you have small children and are out 3 nights a week trying to bang college chicks you might have a kinda wonky lifeplan set up lol. If you aren’t in that circumstance, well here’s my example. -wake up at like 8 -breakfast, dicking around, internet for 1-1.5 hours -work for 3-ish hours, squeeze lunch in -go to office by 1, work onsite for 5-6 hours -visit family, eat dinner, socialize for a tick, comment here… Read more »

kfg
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-option c – train; although b can be a subset of c.

“If you think something is too hard you really just don’t think it’s important enough.”

We haaaaaave a winner! Likewise, if you think something is too expensive for you to afford you really just don’t think it’s important enough. You’re probably spending the money already, just not on that.

YaReally
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@Forge “-option a – play videogames, dick around on internet like most chodes. -option b – go to bar/club and sarge.” This. Like Tyler says: “What’s your alternative for me to do on a Friday night? Get high and play xbox? Show me a hobby that’s more fun, more challenging, more rewarding, more engaging, that pushes you through an emotional rollercoaster every night, that benefits your life overall more, etc AND gets your dick inside hot girls and I’ll be happy to take that hobby up.” “I discovered recently that going out and gaming productively for a while need only… Read more »

SJF
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YaReally,

……I get what you’re saying because frankly you remind me of me and my own wiring and how I would’ve ended up if I had gotten married so I can relate to what you’re saying over the guys who view banging an old chick who lost all her teeth opening diaper bags for your poopy kid as sexy……

Hahah-Heehee. Lol over the Straw-woman statement. I love you, man.

Shawn
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Shawn
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Can someone give me a definite answer: What are the key concepts of game? What’s the process? What’s the best resource to learn the outline of game, without the routine?

Culum Struan
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Haha, that’s a bit like asking “What is the meaning of life?”.

I suggest you read the Field Reports comment thread here (look at the top of the screen) to see how many commenters are applying Game in their lives. Post some of your own experiences and we’ll try to help.

The YaReally Archive (look for the link on the side of the screen) is a former poster’s archive of Game related advice. It’s excellent but not very structured.

The old school Mystery Method book (and videos on Youtube) are also excellent.

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