Always Default to Game

default_game

In the last comment section a very old Game conundrum got reheated. It’s the old confusion on when to “run” Game on a woman and when not to. This concern used to be debated quite a bit in my early days at SoSuave. Occasionally it comes up now and then with guys who’re new to the Red Pill and, still in the process of disconnecting their Blue Pill ideals, want to know when it’s appropriate to use their new Game superpowers for good.

It’s kind of good to revisit the fundamentals; it gives you a better perspective on how you came to a more advanced idea so I’ll get a little remedial here. Essentially the idea guys were talking about then was how Game was something they were turning on or off as situations dictated. Guys would come up with various hypothetical or actual situations where they were unsure if using Game was appropriate. Sometimes these were ethical dilemmas, other times it was just a want for avoiding bad consequences.

  • Should I use Game on the woman at the office?
  • Should I use Game on the fat chick I honestly have no interest in?
  • I find myself using Game on my overbearing Mother and it works, should I feel bad?
  • When I apply Game / Red Pill aware practices in other areas of my life I find I’m better able to enjoy the results I want, is this manipulative?

These are a few of the more common ones, but there are many others. However, the base assumption in all of these is that Game is an act and separate from that individual’s personality or “who he really is”. While I might advise against actively, overtly “gaming” women in your workplace, the Frame you establish by applying Red Pill awareness practices (i.e. Game) will be invaluable to you.

Every time I’ve dealt with this question/presumption it’s usually the case that the guy asking about the situation is still thinking in the same Blue Pill mindset he’s been conditioned to, but has more or less accepted the realities of Red Pill awareness. He may have even killed the Beta for the better part, but the process of changing one’s Blue Pill programming, to say nothing about placing himself as his own mental point of origin is a time consuming one.

The answer is a very simple one: Always default to Game.

Law 14
Pose as a Friend, Work as a Spy

Knowing about your rival is critical. Use spies to gather valuable information that will keep you a step ahead. Better still: Play the spy yourself. In polite social encounters, learn to probe. Ask indirect questions to get people to reveal their weaknesses and intentions. There is no occasion that is not an opportunity for artful spying.

Although this Law is really directed towards one’s power rivals it is also an apt illustration of how Game is applicable in situations that you may have no real intimate interests in. In this instance that artful spying takes the form of learning to read a particular woman even when you have (or wisely shouldn’t have) no real intimate interest in her.

There was (is?) a school of Game thought that a guy new to it should apply it with “less than optimal” women in order to perfect the practice. Furthermore, for the newly Red Pill aware, it’s a relatively low investment way to evaluate proof of concept and build upon it. For as much as I’d like newly aware guys to be able to go from zero to sixty with Game, I can see the logic in this.

I say that with a caveat though; you’ve still got to consider the complications and attachments that will result from your Game actions. Not just this, you even need to be at least peripherally conscious of how your Frame control, Command PresenceAmused Mastery, etc. will impact non-intimate women’s disposition and attachment to you. Bear in mind that most men, Beta men, don’t leave the mental imprint on women that a Red Pill aware, self-MPO man does, to say nothing of a more Alpha man.

Case in point: In my line of work (liquor and gaming) there are many times when I’m working a promo with my girls, or I’m meeting random women I’ve never met before, where I have to make a mental effort to be self-conscious of how I interact with them. It’s sort of the reverse situation to constantly making an effort to stay in Frame to effect Game; it’s become such a part of my nature and personality now that I default to Game.

In fact it’s not even Game to me anymore, it’s just who I am, and particularly when I’m ‘on’ and I need to interact in a social context. It flows so naturally for me I sometimes have to make an effort to dial it back when I see IOIs or I get kino from the women working for me. When women are hitting me up to come party with them after my setup time is through, that’s a reminder that I’m making an impression on them I don’t really want to follow up on.

From Mental Point of Origin:

Your mental point of origin is really your own internalized understanding about how you yourself fit into your own understanding of Frame.

If Frame is the dominant narrative of a relationship (not limited to just romantic relations), your mental point of origin is the import and priority to which you give to the people and/or ideas involved in that relationship. It is the first thought you have when considering any particular of a relationship, and it’s often so ingrained in us that it becomes an autonomous mental process.

From Recursive Game:

While it is of course vital for a man to internalize the various fundamental truths about the nature of women (hypergamy, solipsism, Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks, love based on opportunism, etc.), these fundaments need to become an ambient condition for you in your dealings. This understanding needs to become an internal – under the surface – part of your interactions with women.

Too many guys think that all of this requires some endless capacity to psychologically micromanage every aspect of their interactions, not just with the women they become (or potentially become) intimate with, but also women they work with (or for), their mothers, sisters or daughters. A common reason men initially reject the practice (not necessarily the concept) of Game is due to some imagined expectation that they’ll need to cognitively account for every variable a woman may or may not be subjecting him or herself to.

When you think of Game as some act you put on or some cognitive fencing match between you and a woman it’s easy to believe it’s just too exhausting. That’s when one of two things usually happen; Game-awareness either sinks in and becomes part of his personality, or he relaxes and/or abandons what he’s learned of Game.

And from Artificial Joy:

Once this awareness is internalized and becomes a part of a Man’s personality there is no vigilance, just awareness. There is a subconscious understanding of the order of things from a red pill perspective, but that doesn’t mean I suspect the female bank teller I’m making a deposit with is ready to rob me blind the moment I turn to walk out the door.

Neil Strauss hinted at ‘social robots’ in The Game; guys who were nothing but Game all the time and were unable to make real emotional connections. I would argue just the opposite. The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his former blue pill idealisms – that does require a constant effort.

A healthy red pill awareness requires not only a Man’s reassessment and recreation of himself, but also that he abandon his former blue pill paradigm and learn to live in a new, positive, red pill paradigm. It seems like a daunting task when you first come to terms with it, but ultimately your awareness becomes an internalized part of who you are. You can allow that to consume you with a paranoia  rooted in your former blue pill frame, or you can learn to create hope in a new system – one that you not only have more control over, but one that requires you to assume that control.

I’ve quoted these here to give you a better feel for what I mean when I say always default to Game. With that comes a practiced learning and internalization process of Red Pill awareness and a confirmation of its fundamentals. Once your personality becomes one that defaults to Game you’ll discover that Game is not just for picking up women. I’ve personally used Red Pill awareness and Game practices to close business deals, convince people with money to go with my creative ideas and even get out of a traffic ticket.

So that said, the discussion questions for the weekend (yes, I’m bringing them back) are:

Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why?
Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions?
Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations?
Have you ever applied Game and/or Red Pill aware ideas to women below your own SMV?
Do you think it’s advisable to “practice” Game with such women?

5 2 votes
Article Rating

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Speak your mind

331 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
HowlingManTodd
HowlingManTodd
7 years ago

I.e. Do the opposite of this Vichy Male:

https://twitter.com/biorhythmist/status/663412255619350528

Ang Aamer
7 years ago

@Yareally – you officially can double post all you want! Overall my original thinking was that women/girls had different plumbing but were the same as men. Then I was in business and supervising females. After the numerous junior girls with daddy issues, mid life girls with ex issues, late 20s girls wanting to “live again” after the big LTR. Sigh I just realized that females are not equal or equivalent to men. Now I game early and often and advise my peers and managers I lead how to do so as well. Game keeps you out of HR, it saves… Read more »

Onder
7 years ago

Having dedicated the last 6 years learning Game concepts, I realised that it’s not so much as the Game and the tactics itself that’s important, but rather the things you need to have internally. In short, Game is nothing more than someone whose happy and willing to share his good vibes with others regardless of whether it’s reciprocated or not. I find when I truly feel this way, my banter and lightheartedness is always on point. It eases people into my frame and feel very comfortable talking to me. It’s usually at this stage where things like teasing, challenging and… Read more »

GRock
GRock
7 years ago

1) Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? – If it’s internalized permanently, a better question might be “Do you consciously turn off parts of your new natural self?” If it means not rocking a boat that will later bite me in the ass, due to necessary future interactions, then yes, I’ll act less red-pill for posterity. Family interactions, some formal interactions where I’d rather not deal with the fall out of deeply blue-pilled folks are examples. It’s more of a shift of not standing at a podium, but going with the flow instead… Read more »

Mazrim
Mazrim
7 years ago

As a fairly recent RP convert (18 months or so) I find myseld qualified to answer the questions w/some additional insight where applicable. WTF! 1-She or they have to be mighty fuggly for me to forgo any notions of game. I’ve noticed older women (I’m 44) get wet from my natural “game” state of being 2-Game is applicable in almost any & all situations. I noticed my non-sexual game developing before my budding pua skills 3-I’m non-religious and very Laws of Power oriented, so NO. Remember: alphas don’t give a fuck 4-Game is for all women. Period. Unless they’re just… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Cave – Do you know what just crushes depression? Going balls deep in a 24 yr old hottie spinner. For like 2 hours. I fucking guarantee you that when she’s going all porn star on your ass, you will feel a transformation overcome you. They are replaceable. If you dump your wife, you can get a another woman you’ll like even more, and may not be crazy. And if that one is a liar, you can dump her too. If then next one has an eating disorder, has a crisis, lies about it, goes hermit etc., just cut her loose… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

I was raised in an era when ” game ” was something most young boys ” learned ” early in life. Growing up, girls would actually say that your Game was good or bad. I do not recall when I learned what we refer to as Game. It’s always been there, getting perfected throughout life. Only in the past 5 years or so, did I realize that people had tried to codify Game and teach it to other males. So I have been absolutely amazed and riveted at the numerous sites discussing the in’s and out’s of Game and the… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ YaReally and whoever That’s also why a lot of good-looking dudes end up going home with or dating 6s. They have the looks but they don’t feel entitled to the HB10s and they don’t know how to approach her and are intimidated by her beauty but she’s waiting for a man who has the balls to approach her without being intimidated by her beauty because she’s learned that’s the only kind of man that can handle dating her (meanwhile the aggressive 6 will run up to him and feel his muscles and buy him a drink and get him… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
7 years ago

So, to clear things up on my last post, those were eight (count em, 8) different girls I talked to. Each dashed line separates a different girl. That’s NOT one long conversation with a single girl. I spent maybe 5 min on each one, if that. The second to last one, with Lena Durnham in it, is still going on. She hasn’t flaked. Its going very well actually and will probably get the date. A new one is already talking to me about what kind of lingerie she’s going to wear for me, and I’m only on the third text… Read more »

SlatternsRing
SlatternsRing
7 years ago

Just wanted to say thanks Rollo, been lurking for a couple days and have read most of your writings. Good stuff here, I guess I’m a bit of a natural alpha and this stuff explains quite a bit in retrospect. good for understanding and dealing with the babymommas, my failed attempts at beta supplication now make much more sense. It will be interesting to see how a more game-conscious approach works after almost 40 years of this blind squirrel somehow finding nuts.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

I really think the main reason I don’t default to Game is that inside I feel all DHV on my part is delusional. At least that’s the case lately. The series of blowouts I’ve gone through has just caused me to retract again. I’ve started hiding from everything. It’s really dependent on a good internal state, and mine has fallen to shit over the past few months. I’m having a lot of failures and not much fun. It’s not any one thing I’m doing, it’s just that the internal Game keeps dropping with each failure, making the next failure more… Read more »

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
7 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

Getting blown out happens. Do you have any wingmen? Working with someone helps a lot. Don’t you live in Dallas? Surely you can find some there.

I learned to absorb rejection by viewing myself in a positive sense. Meaning: I feel everyone I deal with I bring value to them. It keeps me playful and positive.

benfromtexas
benfromtexas
7 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

I also make a point to travel for fun and meet ups. I’m heading to Austin next weekend, Corpus Christi the following week, and Vegas the second week in December. Doing this gives me great experience because I know I’ll never see these people again, so if it goes good then that’s awesome, and if it blows up in my face, then so be it.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
7 years ago
Reply to  benfromtexas

@Onder “The tactics are great, but it must start from having a positive vibe and willing to share it with others without expectation.” I know this dancer around 40 who does this and I admire him greatly because it’s hard for me to maintain. @Blaximus “I want to see if they’ll submit to me and follow my lead.” Complimentary… @Sun Wukong “The series of blowouts I’ve gone through has just caused me to retract again. I’ve started hiding from everything.” For me I attempt to put myself in new situations an places. Meet people I haven’t meet before and do… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

@Sun Wukong “How do you break the internal failure spiral?” Field Reports. http://therationalmale.com/2015/10/30/complementarity/comment-page-2/#comment-125819 http://therationalmale.com/2015/10/30/complementarity/comment-page-3/#comment-126031 When you can learn from your blowouts over time they don’t hit you as hard because you stop viewing them as crippling blows to your self-worth and more as learning experiences that will make you better. When you avoid the available help from an entire community of guys who want to see you succeed, and instead stick to trying to just wing it on your own out there, you’re just going to end up going out aimlessly and crossing your fingers that something good happens. And… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@YaReally Today’s blowout was just bad reaction to when a conversation got awkward. Had to repeat myself several times with a bad joke (she missed what I said), knew it was a bad move, don’t know why I didn’t stop myself. Should have changed the conversation and tried again but did something I knew was stupid. Just a total basic socializing faux pas. When somebody doesn’t hear your bad joke, you used the opportunity to pull something else out and I didn’t. Was a chick I’d engaged with previously and had a good reaction, this time it was really obvious… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

How do you break the internal failure spiral? IDGAF Internalize the Gamer Maxims: “Pussy is just pussy.” “Skirts are like buses. There’ll be another one along in ten minutes.” “Play the field.” Don’t focus on any one particular woman anywhere or at any time. Not in a club. Not FWBs. Not fuckbuddies. Don’t invest too much time in any one broad. Make them compete for your attention. Make the broads invest more in you than you do in them. Learn to dance Country dances well enough to instruct women. This means taking group lessons in country two-step, triple two-step, and… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ YaReally Thanks for the reply. My default response was to say nothing / freeze her out. So I think that was good. The first time she delivered the ultimatum, my response was to freeze her out. It just pissed me off because it felt like it was infringing on my time — bringing drama into my life that I didn’t need. ESPECIALLY after we had such a great time together. Sex had been going very well, tons of affection, lots of fun. So to me, I didn’t see the problem, and it just irritated me. She’s been doing it… Read more »

Softek
Softek
7 years ago

@ YaReally It’s also good to know I’m not the first and won’t be the last. What’s most mind blowing is how mapped out this stuff is at this point. It all adds up. @ Rollo That being said, Game / TRP is the best thing that ever happened to me. I feel like I’m free to be me. Who I really am. Pursuing what I really want. It really is that simple. It’s very Zen-like. I believe that after a while, there is no “Game.” Once you’ve internalized it, your conception of it disappears. It no longer serves any… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
7 years ago

@Softek LSNFTE Yeah, I’ve had chicks try to force commitment out of me before when I wasn’t interested. I’ve had them whine about not being “Facebook official” or that I take time with my friends or when I was doing online dating that I wouldn’t change my status to “In a relationship”. Since they were mostly HB4s and 5s, I pretty much told them “Do you like what you’re getting? Then be happy with it,” but I made the mistake of capitulating to some degree whenever I was with a HB6 or 7. Stonewalling kept them, capitulating meant within a… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

@Sun Wukong “When somebody doesn’t hear your bad joke, you used the opportunity to pull something else out and I didn’t.” Perfect, you understand where you went wrong and even just writing that down like you just did will help your brain remember it. Like why do people take notes in class and study for exams? Because when it comes down to the pressure of exam time and their brain is freaking out, that process they took of writing down what to do surfaces somewhere in the back of their brain. It sounds silly, like “bro I just made a… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

@Softek
And Tyler on creating the type of relationships you want (he has multiple pLTRs that bang other girls with him lol):

Hatori Hanzo
Hatori Hanzo
7 years ago

(1) Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? – Not anymore. I use Game everywhere. It’s all I think about. Although, the only place I would hesitate in the past (sometimes I still do) is with big family gatherings. They still call me by my little kid name and see me as little Hanzo, but I can’t expect them to change that in 1 year or less. I just don’t react to that name anymore and give them a silent look. (2) Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? –… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Sun – Dude, I get it. You are confronting what really stops you – your mindset. You can use all the “technique” you want, but it’s like putting icing on a mudpie if you don’t believe “you are the prize”. I’m not sure what is holding you back. I imagine that there is some aspect of who you are or your life that you don’t feel is good enough. With low SMV women it doesn’t come up as much cuz you feel superior but with high SMV women it’s triggered by feeling inferior. I think you know plenty about “Game”… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“Do you know what just crushes depression? Going balls deep in a 24 yr old hottie spinner.”

I know it man.

I’ve been seriously slacking on creating opportunities to even meet girls though.

Some valid reasons for it, but still….slacking.

Might be because the wife is sexing me up most everyday (never says no to my initiations , and initiates about 50% of the time)

2-3 times a week swallowing BJ’s too.

Clever girl…

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Cave

Congratulations!

theasdgamer
7 years ago

Rollo, I published a post Saturday about Women’s Insecurity. I just thought that perhaps you had published something similar. I searched and couldn’t find anything. If you have published something similar, I’d like to link to it.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Thanks asdgamer. But how come it doesn’t feel like a victory? If she walked out of my life right now I just honestly wouldn’t give a fuck. In fact, I would probably be happier. I keep thinking everything she does is fake. False. A game. Why all of a sudden am I “good enough”? And I’m not gaming her AT ALL. Holding to my IDGAF aloof frame that I set with her about 10 months ago, but no more. Red pill as fuck, but no game. Other than blowing my load on her face or down her throat most nights,… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@ Sun Wukong I encounter situations in my profession where I see a fork in the road and I take it. Either left or right. Sometimes it doesn’t turn out the right path. This post is such a time. I don’t know if what I am about to say is the right path. It could be totally mean and no fun. It may push you over the edge. It may kick you while you are down and rub salt in your wounds. (I don’t know what it is like to be depressed. And I don’t know what is the best… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

@Sun Wukong Vent some shit, or we’re all gonna just keep throwing random guesses about your situation and mental state at you. We’re all taking guesses ’cause we all wanna help ya if we can, even if that’s just helping sort out your thoughts. Do it in private if you don’t want to air dirty laundry in public. “There’s a good chance you didn’t understand things well enough to make a good choice. That’s where my trying to be fair with myself about past mistakes comes from.” Like Tyler says, that first half of your life you were just a… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

aw my image didn’t post. 🙁 now it’s just awkward. lol

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“I wonder, when is the last time you did something purely for yourself? You have your own business – can you take three months off and go do something that is purely about you? No family, no business, just you? ” Glenn, Nah, no time off. In fact, my business partner and I are dissolving our partnership and I am taking an executive position working for him. (Salary plus commission) So there’s that. Still high income though (quarter million+ per year), meanwhile I work on the side biz which is about 1/5 of the way towards my goals. 2 years… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

YaReally, just a bit of help. The reason your post went into moderation yesterday was because you used three links in the post. If you use more than three links it goes into WordPress moderation.

And the picture didn’t post just now because you put it in as a “link” instead of just the straight up “url” address.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

..more than two links….

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Cave

Why all of a sudden am I “good enough”?

And I’m not gaming her AT ALL. Holding to my IDGAF aloof frame that I set with her about 10 months ago, but no more.

Red pill as fuck, but no game.

It’s internal game. She must have recently done a reevaluation of your SMV. I wrote about that in https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2014/08/04/escaping-the-friend-zone/

I’m treating her like shit, basically.

She obviously likes what you’re doing. YaReally wrote up above that some women prefer to be treated this way. Maybe your wife is one of them.

Again, congratulations!

lh
lh
7 years ago

Cave: Why all of a sudden am I “good enough”? I’m treating her like shit, basically That’s one of the reasons why I think “Hypergamy” isn’t very useful to understand women and how to deal with it. Of course you aren’t really better than before. Right now you are just pushing the right buttons, including how you treat her and of course the Dread resulting from your divorce planning. It’s important to understand you will never be “good enough” and it also doesn’t matter. It’s about pushing the right buttons. As long as you do, you will be “good enough”… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“She must have recently done a reevaluation of your SMV.” I wonder if the eval was redone when I served her with fucking divorce papers? Or was it when she realized she was 30+ years old now? Or was it when she saw a 24 hottie give me a hug? Or was it when I got approached by the hottest and youngest gal at the family thing I did an FR for not long ago? Or was it when my kid ratted me out about talking to girls when mom is not around? Or was it when I made all… Read more »

Dark Triad Man
7 years ago
Reply to  CaveClown

@CaveClown – your anger is an attachment, which is an overextension and is gratuitous.

It is understandable, and I offer my comment not as criticism but as reminder of the Way.

http://darktriadman.com/2015/11/09/psychopathy-of-the-dark-triad-man/

Avoid the gratuitous, and apply your purpose with seamless disassociation and within that you will find surcease of pain as well as infinite capacity for power.

Regards,

Ivan

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“It’s important to understand you will never be “good enough” and it also doesn’t matter. ”

Oh fuck that, lol. I know I’m good enough.

Its her that’s lacking.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@Asdgamer

“she said that I wasn’t the man that she married.”

That’s just wife code for “I can’t dominate and control you and play hide the vagina on you to get what I want anymore”.

lh
lh
7 years ago

@Cave: Did you understand my point? “Good enough” is not the relevant measure. Your Burden of Performance is giving her the treatment and Dread, pushing the right buttons and not some abstract “being the better man”.

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

I love this place. Lots of great posts linked here that I haven’t read before. A couple yaReally comments. What a great way to start the week. Regarding Game: I’ve completely internalized Red Pill. I think. But just starting on social game. I love it actually. I crave starting conversations with people now. I used to be happy that I only had to talk to the same 10 people every day. Now it’s a HUGE hindrance to my progress. I need to work something into my daily routine so that I can meet new people. I’m learning so fast that… Read more »

Jimmeh
Jimmeh
7 years ago

@YaReally
I’ve been lurking for a long time and have just finished the YaReally archive and its helped immensely in understanding game and female psychology. I bet there are tons of lurkers just like me benifitting greatly from your comments, so I just want to say thanks 🙂

Also I compiled my favorite comments of yours into a handy PDF file aptly named ‘The Book of YaReally’, I remember someone else doing this but I couldn’t find it, so I made one.

http://www.mediafire.com/view/v97p3rhw9hanot2/Book_of_YaReally.pdf

Jimmeh.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Andy

“My husband is out of town on business!”…

No, she’s not hitting on you. She’s thinking about introducing you to her husband or maybe why her husband isn’t with her. But you could assume that she’s hitting on you and say, “A little aggressive, aren’t you?”

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“Did you understand my point? “Good enough” is not the relevant measure. Your Burden of Performance is giving her the treatment and Dread, pushing the right buttons and not some abstract “being the better man”.”

I understand, but yet i don’t. I still try to fit what I consider to be valuable in a man as what she should ALSO consider valuable in a man.

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ SJF

Where did your comment come from?

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

“No, she’s not hitting on you. She’s thinking about introducing you to her husband or maybe why her husband isn’t with her.”

@asdgamer

Hmm, yeah. That would make sense.

Just bouncing ideas… What dance would be appropriate for me to pull off right there on the sidewalk? I’m thinking maybe just break into the sprinkler and then a triple salchow or something…see how she reacts.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

From your blog post on escaping the friend zone and my experience. In my experience I abdicated dominance and control in my marriage. She lost admiration and respect and was on the verge of ditching me. She was creating a fabrication of all my defects (which were few) in order to justify moving on. I was in the friendzone. Desire sex wasn’t there. I’ve since turned it around. I’ve heard the phrase “you’re not the man I married” come out of her mouth this past year. I was the man she married, then dominated and controlled. Now I have my… Read more »

lh
lh
7 years ago

@Cave: That’s why I advice to give up the idea it’s about “value”. That theoretical model doesn’t help far. Hypergamy is about wanting the “better man” and the “better man” is he whom women want is actually circular reasoning.
But what happened to you can be explained by other concepts like MPO, Frame and emotional dynamics from Dread or generally Game. Just stick to those to understand what’s going on and why.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Ivan, If anything, you’re expanding my vocabulary with your comments. I read every one of your posts over the weekend, and subscribed as well. Interesting stuff. Your article on the 3 Steps to Gladiator power made me really want to go out and get my ass kicked. Seriously. Didn’t watch the videos though. Pretty sure I’ve seen every ISIS video they’ve ever made. I attempt to be a student of history, and history is bloody. To your comment, I am an emotional man. Always have been. Not in a “pussy” sort of way (usually), I just have very strong emotions.… Read more »

Dark Triad Man
7 years ago
Reply to  CaveClown

@CaveClown – I appreciate the comments. It is my mission to be of service.

You may find my post this morning on psychopathy to be of use with the emotional challenge.

Powerful, deep emotion is not inappropriate.

It is a matter of handling.

Regards,

Ivan

http://www.darktriadman.com

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

@lh @CaveClown “That’s one of the reasons why I think “Hypergamy” isn’t very useful to understand women and how to deal with it. Of course you aren’t really better than before. Right now you are just pushing the right buttons” The nuance most guys don’t understand is that Hypergamy isn’t just about “who’s the best looking, richest, most alpha badass James Bond she thinks she can get”, it’s “who’s giving her the emotions she needs”. He IS better than before because even though he hasn’t changed in terms of external attributes, his behavior of IDGAF is now giving her the… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Andy

What dance would be appropriate for me to pull off right there on the sidewalk? I’m thinking maybe just break into the sprinkler and then a triple salchow or something…see how she reacts.

Pull her into a Rumba…tell her it’s the dance of romance

Andrew
7 years ago

Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? Never. I game everyone all the time. Like you, I sometimes have to tone that shit down because it could make situations messy (co-workers, other men’s significant others, etc…). But most of the time I am 100% on. Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? No. Game makes the world a better place, and it is fun. Not only that, but it keeps you sharp. Even if I am in some type of LTR, I will constantly game other girls, even when she… Read more »

David M Garcia (@RedMoonProject)

The pose as a friend; work as a spy thing really does come up a lot once you start paying attention. Last evening a friend, not a romantic interest, calls up and asks if we can make a stop at Mariano’s. I need a few grocery items myself and she gives me a few bucks for gas, so we go. While we are there we stop at their wine bar for some cheese and crackers. Behind the bar is a woman who I’ll call J; late thirties, blue eyes, red hair and still more or less a normal weight and… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“He IS better than before because even though he hasn’t changed in terms of external attributes, his behavior of IDGAF is now giving her the emotional rollercoaster she’s needed (but society has socially conditioned men to not provide or to feel ashamed/apologetic for providing).” Like intentionally making her cry just so I can get some makeup sex? Then telling her later that I forgive her for what she did? (which was actually my fault) Or pushing her away when she tries to cuddle, then later pulling her close? Or telling her to text me something entertaining, and then ignoring said… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“An interesting dynamic my buddy observed as he went through a long dragged out breakup where his girl lost interest, is that when she was fully attracted to him in his prime, even girls that were just friendly with him she would be like “wow that girl was flirting SO HARD with you omg!!!” all jealous and attracted to him. But when she lost attraction for him, a girl could throw herself at him in front of her and she’d be like “huh? She was flirting? I dunno I think she was just being nice.”” Holy crap did that make… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

YaReally wrote:

what women ACTUALLY value are the emotions you make them FEEL

Hence my post about managing a relationship: https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2014/10/23/managing-your-relationship-with-your-wifegirlfriend/

Tingles, validation, comfort, and drama. Flirt, tease about her insecurities, pass her loyalty tests, and go out solo.

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

“She must have recently done a reevaluation of your SMV.” My wife gave me a major comfort test a few days ago. Crying, sulking. She said “You’re so dominant.” lol. And like “you’re being so cold” (she didn’t mind the night before when she was screaming uncontrollably)… Anyway, I think I handled the comfort test fine. She was blaming her feelings on other shit a few minutes later. It took me a bit off my game for a couple days. But I recognize it. “If she walked out of my life right now I just honestly wouldn’t give a fuck.… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“Gone was the insecure psychotic who accused me of just glancing at other women; ”

I’ve been told numerous times that looking at other chicks is cheating. Same as if I dicked them. Cheating in my heart and all that. If I was truly into her I wouldn’t even be attracted to other women. Haven’t heard that since I went IDGAF.

To your whole comment, makes sense to me now thanks.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Andy, sick?

IDGAF if she’s sick, lol.

When mine is sick I make her lay there and rub oil into her tits while I rub one out and use her for target practice.

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

@Cave

Lol, my wife gets annoying and she has these coughing fits where she dry heaves. I’d rather watch football.

lh
lh
7 years ago

YaReally: “..those guys make more emotional impact on the girl and that’s what’s high-value to her. I agree with your analysis 100%. But my point was this idea of value is alien to men. We don’t value the rollercoaster. So to think about it in terms of “value” you first have to enter female thinking only to apply the male concept of “value” on it. That’s super inefficient and it can lead to the confusions you pointed out. Why not just say it is about the rollercoaster? You push the right buttons to get what you want. Women need to… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@Andy and Cave You’re joking Cave (and god knows SJF needs to be a little heartier on the joking side). But didactic SJF just needs to say that Andy, it is OK to be comforting when your wife is ill. You’re the oak tree and she’s in a storm. You can judge her in your own mind, but don’t let her see you be judgmental about her lying around sick, watching TV, and coupon clipping. Keep your emotions in check. In single man game, the surest way to not get in a girls pants is to be judgmental about her… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

@CaveClown “Like intentionally making her cry just so I can get some makeup sex? Then telling her later that I forgive her for what she did? (which was actually my fault)” One of my current girls purposely picks fights with me just so we can have makeup sex. She’s flat out admitted it lol They love the emotional rollercoaster ride…that’s why there’s that movie trope where the two main characters are fighting then the guy just grabs her and kisses her and they have crazy sex. That said, it’s when you have ATTRACTION…if you DON’T have it then it’s like… Read more »

lh
lh
7 years ago

Don’t be a child playing with dynamite. Don’t be an Alpha asshole.

Gonna play devils advocate: I bet if Andy would go fucking other women as long as his wife is ill, she would get back in health much sooner and she will never be sick again.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Sjf, I didn’t mean Andy should do that, but I sure wasn’t joking about what I do when she is sick.

I might bring her some meds and cough drops or tea though.

She hasn’t earned much comfort from me.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

My usual response to “if you look at other women you are not into me!”

“Hmmm, maybe you’re right”

Or just a shrug.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

No, I get it Cave. Proceed as you are. You know what you are doing. Mostly dragged you in because you joked about Andy’s downtime. I didn’t want Andy to go all frat boy on his wife. Just trying to point out Game tactics to Andy. Projecting comfort, not showing judgemental-ism toward his wife (even though he thinks it) and waiting for getting his rocks off another time is a married man game tactic. It is not actually beta as you think it is. His wife won’t think in her hamster brain next month or next time she is pissed… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Example of non sexual game. HB4 employee of mine. From ten feet across the room… Her, “are you afraid of bugs?” Me, “no” Her, “will you come kill this wasp than?” I looked at her holding a fly swatter in her hand. Long pause for effect. Me, “no” Her, “I usually ask my husband to do this stuff” Me, “I suppose that’s what husbands are for” Wap! Her, “got it!” Me, “good job, I never doubted you for more than a few seconds” Her, “hey! Things with stingers scare me! I think you were just too scared to do it.… Read more »

newlyaloof
7 years ago

Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why? Not all all any longer. Game opened my eyes like Neo – why would I want to be blind in any situation? Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions? Hell no. Every interaction is an exchange of frames. Game is frame, frame is game. Always be gaming. Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations? Not any longer. During the different phases of BP detox, yes, but not any longer. Hesitation is for betas. Have you ever applied… Read more »

Luxocrat
Luxocrat
7 years ago

@Roused

She didn’t come over for booty. She came over WITH the booty. Stark difference.

Luxocrat
Luxocrat
7 years ago

@Hank Holiday – damn, I just realized you were talking about multiple women. So, in essence, my reply should have been watch out for being a time whore to *several* women. You are not spinning plates, you are spinning text messages, wearing your thumbs down.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

YaReally It’s like she’s had a Rubick’s Cube solved for however many years they’ve been together and it’s been collecting dust and she’s lost interest but she walked into the room the other day and the Rubick’s Cube is sitting on her desk completely jumbled up again and she’s like “wait what??” and suddenly her interest in solving it is renewed. Perfect image. Absolutely perfect image of dread application in LTR / marriage. “Wait, I had this like totally figured out, now what? What?” is the reaction. This paragraph explains things that White Knights, both churchian and others, not to… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“No, I get it Cave. Proceed as you are. You know what you are doing. Mostly dragged you in because you joked about Andy’s downtime. I didn’t want Andy to go all frat boy on his wife.”

Not sure of your tone here, sjf, but I did not intend to push back on you with my previous comment.

You are giving stellar advice to Andy.

I just feel the need to err on the side of “asshole” with my wife right now.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

I would endorse that for you Cave–erring on the side of asshole.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
7 years ago
Reply to  SJF

@Caveclown “I understand, but yet i don’t. I still try to fit what I consider to be valuable in a man as what she should ALSO consider valuable in a man.” That’s where I was stuck at before I got into Rollos work. @theasdgamer “Pull her into a Rumba…tell her it’s the dance of romance” Really is @Andrew “Just amused master, frame control, and command presence.” Doing that now. @Rollo Tommassi “and they can’t reconcile the truth with their former conditioning.” I speak less observe more… @SJF “Comfort given as an Alpha man when the time is right is the… Read more »

ETA
ETA
7 years ago

@theasdgamer I’ve had similar thoughts about escaping the friend zone. Leaving the “crush” for a while allows for her impressions of you as “beta” to fade away. In the mean time you work on yourself to become the kind of guy that attracts girls. Then, you re-initiate the relationship with the “crush”. Having that break, first of all helps you reevaluate yourself. Once you get in touch again, you’ll have the aura of the “new guy” which will reset her impressions of you. The funny thing is that your genuine change towards alphaness that will make her like you, is… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

I realize this may seem rich coming from me, but remember, I’m speaking from a lot of experience being an asshole so one could consider me an expert at being an asshole. LofuckingL. That said, I have come to learn over the past year to use my asshole card much more selectively and to just not go to anger or conflict unless I want to. It seems to me that what women react to is my orientation, the orientation of treating them like what they can do for me that has them feel differently around me. I can disagree, not… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ ETA

The funny thing is that your genuine change towards alphaness that will make her like you, is what will also kill your “oneitis”, which many guys don’t want to give up, while they are under its effects.

Gold comment. Schroedinger’s Poon.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
7 years ago
Reply to  theasdgamer

@scribblerg “The reason they resent being dominated is because they love it so much, it so much richer then typical female life. And when you are doing it badly they will punish you for it.” Damn Glenn you just helped a tom with this awful vs habit I have. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S39paDGZ0Ew I’ve never fully realized why I used to get socially ostracized but this makes since in being punished for not playing along. I don’t think I was ever anti social but I sure as hell was anti self interest. A lot of my coping skills as obscene and blatantly offensive… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Glenn, Paradox, I know. I lose respect for myself too, when I realize the shit I have allowed her to get away with. Holy shit the things she has done. It fucks with my self-esteem in a big way. As for the kids, she is a really good mother now. For real. Can’t believe it. Probably the best mother I know in real life. Might be because she follows my frame in that regard and raises them the way I want it done, lol. Right now she is a traditional gender role believing, mostly stay at home wife, that cooks,… Read more »

theasdgamer
7 years ago

@ Rugby

Howard Greene, a NFL defensive end, weighs 365 lbs.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

One other thing with her, I am just BORED AS FUCK with her body.

I’m gonna eat the same fucking meal for dinner every night for the rest of my life…what was I thinking?

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Sun Well you’ve been hit up with a lot of (excellent) comments already, each with their own way of accessing a better place for you. So just two quick observations. First – you’re catastrophising. I’m not really sure why. But the events you describe, though annoying or perhaps passingly distressing they might be, would quickly be shaken off or even become funny to a person in a happy frame. But you’re using them to rationalize that you’re a stupid sack of shit and your city sucks and you can’t do X etc etc. I used to do that when I… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

Caveclown,
” I am just BORED AS FUCK with her body”

Would you care if she cheats on you?

Are you with her out of pity?

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

Rollo, “Never is there an onus upon her to keep herself ‘fresh’ for him, to make herself exciting for his pleasure, and in fact, the mere suggestion of such is equated with emotional abuse on his part.” Tell me about it! . But, if he generates “tingles”, she would be more than happy to accept the number one prerequisite”” for a woman to whom I could stay faithful to”” . And the aghast become the fear of him ” fucking “another woman. And Women get all proud about men’s sexual criteria, and sex become the glue that holds a relationship… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Not sure if tingles or obligated compliance…

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

Caveclown,
“and if I throw a pillow on the floor in front of me will gladly suck my dick. (literally)”

SHE , is , the one who should be throwing the pillow.
Ps,
I really tried not to comment on this but I couldn’t keep my mouth shut ,sorry.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

If the number one prerequisite for a marriage is it being with a woman I could stay faithful to, I picked the wrong woman.

She cut off sex starting the first week, and then threatened suicide if I cheated.

Took me awhile, but I started stepping out in year 4.

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Keyser, good point.

Gah! So depressing.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
7 years ago

Cave,
1, I dumped a woman at the spot, after the first fuck because, she didn’t suck.
2,I dumped a woman at the spot , when she came home from a business trip ,when she told me, she needs to “reconnect emotionally ” before she fucks me.
3,I dumped a woman at the spot , when she didn’t fuck me before taking her out for dinner.

Like what Yareally said : I don’t negotiate with terrorists.

doodleberri
7 years ago

Don’t allow a woman to make you sleep on the couch. Gently remind her that you’re physically superior. If she threatens to leave, tell her to leave for good. Forty nine times out of fifty she won’t. This is because women are, psychologically speaking, reactionaries who can’t function when deprived of their emotional monopoly on your interactions with them. You should also call your wife out when she starts talking about bullshit for no reason for longer than four seconds. Why in God’s name would you subject yourself to 57 minute diatribes about her unhot coworkers? Would you take that… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Don’t allow a woman to make you sleep on the couch.” A woman cannot make a man sleep on the couch. She can only demand it. The man must acquiesce. He makes himself sleep on the couch. It is only if he does that he deserves it, and she knows that. “Gently remind her that . . .” . . .she’s out of her fucking mind and that if she doesn’t want to sleep with you, she knows where the couch is just as well as you do. “Think of all the braless children in Africa!” Whatever turns you on.… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
7 years ago
Reply to  kfg

Code is poetry
23 chromosomes
Pair bonding creations…

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

Rich buff bodybuilding dot com CEO Ryan Deluca: https://instagram.com/ryandeluca123/ CEO, “Only thing better than one Tesla? Two Teslas. ;)”, travels the world “my goal is to be out of town 40+ weekends a year”, drinking Cristal he “bought in Reims, France where it’s made” on a jet he chartered while his usual plane is getting its annual maintenance done. http://i.gyazo.com/83356b9cddcc1f6fbb382fcfece99a21.png ………whoops lol: http://i.gyazo.com/8f28b0d39840cb263397c9d7dd54ebfd.png Guess he should’ve gotten a little more jacked, or a bit lower bodyfat percent, or made enough money to buy a THIRD Tesla. “Cliffs: -Ryan Deluca broke up with gf -Gf goes to Cali and gets smashed… Read more »

YaReally
YaReally
7 years ago

Julien on hitting on lower SMV girls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkKURdjtIQ Lot of valuable shit in this one. Here’s the TV show set he’s describing where he uses this merging forward stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvw-n7N2ig0&t=6m20s I’ve toned down the social proof stuff like this because I’m keeping a low profile right now (in work mode for a couple years till I’m not poor anymore lol so no time to maintain the circus of big social circles right now), but every guy should understand how to do this and experiment with it. And I’ll still bust it out on nights where I feel like making some… Read more »

IAS
IAS
7 years ago

About the “keeping fresh” thing… Maybe it is just part of my personality, but I value quality and quantity way above variety. If it is a food I like, I can eat the same food every single day without getting bored. I don’t do that with food due to health reasons. I am also tempted do that with clothes (get several copies of the same stuff). I think this also means I’m potentially happier in a monogamous LTR, provided I get the higher quality and quantity that such an LTR could provide in an ideal scenario (currently not my real… Read more »

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

I think this also means I’m potentially happier in a monogamous LTR, provided I get the higher quality and quantity that such an LTR could provide in an ideal scenario (currently not my real scenario).

@IAS

Check out this comment from @ETA

“The funny thing is that your genuine change towards alphaness that will make her like you, is what will also kill your “oneitis”, which many guys don’t want to give up, while they are under its effects.”

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“The real test for a man is how he lives with himself, alone. Precious few men ever truly allow themselves to be alone and learn real independence and self-reliance. The vast majority of guys (see Betas), particularly in western culture, tend to transition from mother to wife with little or no intermission between. For the most part they subscribe to the feminine imperative, becoming serial monogamists going from LTR to LTR until they ‘settle’ without ever having learned and matured into how to interact as an adult.” From http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/12/the-myth-of-the-lonely-old-man/ “I’m going to suggest that most AFCs, most feminized, conditioned males,… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

“@CC, you know what I’ve always found the height of hubris? The fact that the onus of “keeping a marriage ‘fresh’” always falls on the husband.” So true Rollo. I turned to porn back when the wife first cut me off from sex. Got caught several times, shamed, etc… I went to one session of counseling for my “addiction” just to placate her. Got shamed as i knew I would, came back and told the wife that i would no longer be going to a counselor because I will not be shamed, told the wife it was her fault for… Read more »

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

Social Skills Question: When two or more people are talking and seem to be having a decent conversation is it rude to just go up mid sentence and introduce yourself? One thing I notice my wife does is she’ll listen in on people’s conversations and just kind of interject or laugh at something they say and then interject. Both get you into the conversation. I’m just having a problem with it because I PERSONALLY hate it when people do this while I’m talking. So my question is what is a good way to handle it? Does it matter if it’s… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

“So i guess my question is, will women work on keeping things fresh, aiming to please as it were, with a man they have better attraction for?

Isn’t that what she’s doing now?

My guess from your descriptions is, the sex you’re getting now is the best she can do. If it’s not enough variety for you she might just not be imaginative or adventurous enough for you. Some people just aren’t creative.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
7 years ago

@Andy The listening for the opening part is key. It’s just, the opening doesn’t have to be a pause in conversation like most people (maybe just most men?) think. A lot of convos between women are more reflex than substance. It’s like when they don’t make an effort to not talk, they just do. It’s more a way of pinging off the environment for how to feel, and putting how they feel through words and subcomms out there to get feedback on the content of their emotions and how to calibrate them, than it is a real conversation. So if… Read more »

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

My guess from your descriptions is, the sex you’re getting now is the best she can do. If it’s not enough variety for you she might just not be imaginative or adventurous enough for you. Unfortunately I’ve been in a lot of different LTR’s. One theory that I always have found to be true is hedonic adaptation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill No matter what your circumstance you always end up at a base level of happiness over time. I think that as long as you have somewhere to sleep, food, a base level of money, you’re going to end up at about the… Read more »

Andy
Andy
7 years ago

And it’s not uncommon for women to have directed conversations either – if they’re telling long stories about stuff that happened to them, and it’s actually important stuff or the other girl(s) seem engrossed, they’re actually having an outcome-oriented conversation This is true. My other thought is that even though it pisses me off when people interrupt a conversation I rarely make a scene about it. And then that person usually just continues the conversation or starts a new one. The reason I say this is because in my mind a true alpha wouldn’t give a shit if he interrupts… Read more »

IAS
IAS
7 years ago

@ Andy : I think there is at least some truth to this Hedonic treadmill theory, which I usually express that happiness is more internal (mindset) than external. Red Pill knowledge / praxeology is also apparently in on that, in suggesting that you work on “inner game”, self-improve and not rely or depend on others for your happiness. So while I interpret that Rollo is criticizing wives that don’t make an effort, he much more importantly advocates self-reliance in the post that CaveClown quoted and linked http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/12/the-myth-of-the-lonely-old-man/ Basically, it is even more critical that husbands make the effort and get… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
7 years ago

Hedonic adaptation is common knowledge for executives that set what others get paid. Meaning, there is huge benefit to the employer to take a guy from $50k to $75k a year, there is diminishing returns at compensation above that because $75k (approx) allows people to stay at their base level of happiness. Less than that has a negative effect on base happiness levels. More than that does not equal a higher base, therefore it is taken for granted, because he just returns to the base level anyway. (which is where things like bonuses come in, they get a hit of… Read more »

331
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x
%d bloggers like this: