Always Default to Game

default_game

In the last comment section a very old Game conundrum got reheated. It’s the old confusion on when to “run” Game on a woman and when not to. This concern used to be debated quite a bit in my early days at SoSuave. Occasionally it comes up now and then with guys who’re new to the Red Pill and, still in the process of disconnecting their Blue Pill ideals, want to know when it’s appropriate to use their new Game superpowers for good.

It’s kind of good to revisit the fundamentals; it gives you a better perspective on how you came to a more advanced idea so I’ll get a little remedial here. Essentially the idea guys were talking about then was how Game was something they were turning on or off as situations dictated. Guys would come up with various hypothetical or actual situations where they were unsure if using Game was appropriate. Sometimes these were ethical dilemmas, other times it was just a want for avoiding bad consequences.

  • Should I use Game on the woman at the office?
  • Should I use Game on the fat chick I honestly have no interest in?
  • I find myself using Game on my overbearing Mother and it works, should I feel bad?
  • When I apply Game / Red Pill aware practices in other areas of my life I find I’m better able to enjoy the results I want, is this manipulative?

These are a few of the more common ones, but there are many others. However, the base assumption in all of these is that Game is an act and separate from that individual’s personality or “who he really is”. While I might advise against actively, overtly “gaming” women in your workplace, the Frame you establish by applying Red Pill awareness practices (i.e. Game) will be invaluable to you.

Every time I’ve dealt with this question/presumption it’s usually the case that the guy asking about the situation is still thinking in the same Blue Pill mindset he’s been conditioned to, but has more or less accepted the realities of Red Pill awareness. He may have even killed the Beta for the better part, but the process of changing one’s Blue Pill programming, to say nothing about placing himself as his own mental point of origin is a time consuming one.

The answer is a very simple one: Always default to Game.

Law 14
Pose as a Friend, Work as a Spy

Knowing about your rival is critical. Use spies to gather valuable information that will keep you a step ahead. Better still: Play the spy yourself. In polite social encounters, learn to probe. Ask indirect questions to get people to reveal their weaknesses and intentions. There is no occasion that is not an opportunity for artful spying.

Although this Law is really directed towards one’s power rivals it is also an apt illustration of how Game is applicable in situations that you may have no real intimate interests in. In this instance that artful spying takes the form of learning to read a particular woman even when you have (or wisely shouldn’t have) no real intimate interest in her.

There was (is?) a school of Game thought that a guy new to it should apply it with “less than optimal” women in order to perfect the practice. Furthermore, for the newly Red Pill aware, it’s a relatively low investment way to evaluate proof of concept and build upon it. For as much as I’d like newly aware guys to be able to go from zero to sixty with Game, I can see the logic in this.

I say that with a caveat though; you’ve still got to consider the complications and attachments that will result from your Game actions. Not just this, you even need to be at least peripherally conscious of how your Frame control, Command PresenceAmused Mastery, etc. will impact non-intimate women’s disposition and attachment to you. Bear in mind that most men, Beta men, don’t leave the mental imprint on women that a Red Pill aware, self-MPO man does, to say nothing of a more Alpha man.

Case in point: In my line of work (liquor and gaming) there are many times when I’m working a promo with my girls, or I’m meeting random women I’ve never met before, where I have to make a mental effort to be self-conscious of how I interact with them. It’s sort of the reverse situation to constantly making an effort to stay in Frame to effect Game; it’s become such a part of my nature and personality now that I default to Game.

In fact it’s not even Game to me anymore, it’s just who I am, and particularly when I’m ‘on’ and I need to interact in a social context. It flows so naturally for me I sometimes have to make an effort to dial it back when I see IOIs or I get kino from the women working for me. When women are hitting me up to come party with them after my setup time is through, that’s a reminder that I’m making an impression on them I don’t really want to follow up on.

From Mental Point of Origin:

Your mental point of origin is really your own internalized understanding about how you yourself fit into your own understanding of Frame.

If Frame is the dominant narrative of a relationship (not limited to just romantic relations), your mental point of origin is the import and priority to which you give to the people and/or ideas involved in that relationship. It is the first thought you have when considering any particular of a relationship, and it’s often so ingrained in us that it becomes an autonomous mental process.

From Recursive Game:

While it is of course vital for a man to internalize the various fundamental truths about the nature of women (hypergamy, solipsism, Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks, love based on opportunism, etc.), these fundaments need to become an ambient condition for you in your dealings. This understanding needs to become an internal – under the surface – part of your interactions with women.

Too many guys think that all of this requires some endless capacity to psychologically micromanage every aspect of their interactions, not just with the women they become (or potentially become) intimate with, but also women they work with (or for), their mothers, sisters or daughters. A common reason men initially reject the practice (not necessarily the concept) of Game is due to some imagined expectation that they’ll need to cognitively account for every variable a woman may or may not be subjecting him or herself to.

When you think of Game as some act you put on or some cognitive fencing match between you and a woman it’s easy to believe it’s just too exhausting. That’s when one of two things usually happen; Game-awareness either sinks in and becomes part of his personality, or he relaxes and/or abandons what he’s learned of Game.

And from Artificial Joy:

Once this awareness is internalized and becomes a part of a Man’s personality there is no vigilance, just awareness. There is a subconscious understanding of the order of things from a red pill perspective, but that doesn’t mean I suspect the female bank teller I’m making a deposit with is ready to rob me blind the moment I turn to walk out the door.

Neil Strauss hinted at ‘social robots’ in The Game; guys who were nothing but Game all the time and were unable to make real emotional connections. I would argue just the opposite. The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his former blue pill idealisms – that does require a constant effort.

A healthy red pill awareness requires not only a Man’s reassessment and recreation of himself, but also that he abandon his former blue pill paradigm and learn to live in a new, positive, red pill paradigm. It seems like a daunting task when you first come to terms with it, but ultimately your awareness becomes an internalized part of who you are. You can allow that to consume you with a paranoia  rooted in your former blue pill frame, or you can learn to create hope in a new system – one that you not only have more control over, but one that requires you to assume that control.

I’ve quoted these here to give you a better feel for what I mean when I say always default to Game. With that comes a practiced learning and internalization process of Red Pill awareness and a confirmation of its fundamentals. Once your personality becomes one that defaults to Game you’ll discover that Game is not just for picking up women. I’ve personally used Red Pill awareness and Game practices to close business deals, convince people with money to go with my creative ideas and even get out of a traffic ticket.

So that said, the discussion questions for the weekend (yes, I’m bringing them back) are:

Do you hesitate to use Game in different situations, and if so why?
Do you think Game is only applicable to your intimate interactions?
Are you hesitant to use Game because of ethical or Blue Pill considerations?
Have you ever applied Game and/or Red Pill aware ideas to women below your own SMV?
Do you think it’s advisable to “practice” Game with such women?

331 comments

  1. Cave,
    1, I dumped a woman at the spot, after the first fuck because, she didn’t suck.
    2,I dumped a woman at the spot , when she came home from a business trip ,when she told me, she needs to “reconnect emotionally ” before she fucks me.
    3,I dumped a woman at the spot , when she didn’t fuck me before taking her out for dinner.

    Like what Yareally said : I don’t negotiate with terrorists.

  2. Don’t allow a woman to make you sleep on the couch. Gently remind her that you’re physically superior. If she threatens to leave, tell her to leave for good. Forty nine times out of fifty she won’t. This is because women are, psychologically speaking, reactionaries who can’t function when deprived of their emotional monopoly on your interactions with them.

    You should also call your wife out when she starts talking about bullshit for no reason for longer than four seconds. Why in God’s name would you subject yourself to 57 minute diatribes about her unhot coworkers? Would you take that shit from your best friend? No, you’d turn to him and say, “Mike, stop talking. You’re a boring person.” It follows that you don’t have to tolerate her nonsense either. “I’m sorry babe, who cares? Move on with your life,” will suffice.

    (If I sound like a douche, it’s because you’re weak enough to allow someone’s ideas to offend you. I freely admit that my girlfriend is spatially smarter than me, although probably not verbally. I’ve met both women and men who surpass me in every facet. That’s fine, because the specific goofy shit that a woman does is coded into her DNA and exhibits itself at every level of intelligence and socioeconomic status. You deal with this bullshit dating a Babywatch babe, and you get it dating a Baskin-Robins bitch. If you’re banging Sally Ride and she’s in love with you, she’s going to do things like look into your eyes for too long and be a creepy-ass bitch. No, I don’t want to talk about the future. Are you out of your goddamn mind?I just burned 562 calories hammering two Viagra into your butt.

    feminists are thoroughly unattractive internally and externally. Men enjoy relationships with non-feminists more. If you’re a feminist, It means you probably go on too much about bullshit and waste your energy breeding contempt instead of harmony. There’s nothing wrong with a guy who doesn’t want that; who doesn’t want a bitchy bra burner. If you’ve ever burned your bra, next time, try keeping it on. You’re an idiot. You wasted valuable underwear. Think of all the braless children in Africa!

  3. “Don’t allow a woman to make you sleep on the couch.”

    A woman cannot make a man sleep on the couch. She can only demand it. The man must acquiesce. He makes himself sleep on the couch. It is only if he does that he deserves it, and she knows that.

    “Gently remind her that . . .”

    . . .she’s out of her fucking mind and that if she doesn’t want to sleep with you, she knows where the couch is just as well as you do.

    “Think of all the braless children in Africa!”

    Whatever turns you on. Back in the day that’s what National Geographic was for – or, ummmm, so I’m told.

  4. Rich buff bodybuilding dot com CEO Ryan Deluca:

    https://instagram.com/ryandeluca123/

    CEO, “Only thing better than one Tesla? Two Teslas. ;)”, travels the world “my goal is to be out of town 40+ weekends a year”, drinking Cristal he “bought in Reims, France where it’s made” on a jet he chartered while his usual plane is getting its annual maintenance done.

    http://i.gyazo.com/83356b9cddcc1f6fbb382fcfece99a21.png

    ………whoops lol:

    http://i.gyazo.com/8f28b0d39840cb263397c9d7dd54ebfd.png

    Guess he should’ve gotten a little more jacked, or a bit lower bodyfat percent, or made enough money to buy a THIRD Tesla.

    “Cliffs:

    -Ryan Deluca broke up with gf
    -Gf goes to Cali and gets smashed by Dan Blizerian
    -Gf and Ryan Deluca get back together
    -Ryan Deluca finds Dan Blizerian’s number in gf’s phone while on vacation in Spain, and texts Dan Blizerian
    -Dan Blizerian posts pic of sloot on his bed with sniper rifle, with caption saying I smashed your sloot in ***** sandals, and tags Ryan Deluca
    -Ryan Deluca’s IG is flooded with lulz
    -Ryan Deluca deletes recent IG picture with sloot
    -Ryan Deluca make IG account private
    -Ryan Deluca deletes all pictures with sloot
    -Ryan Deluca changes IG account name
    -Ryan Deluca responds by saying he will get more IG followers by doing “good”
    -Ryan Deluca posts Dan Blizerian’s phone number
    -Ryan Deluca is typical Miscer when it comes to sloots”

    “From looking at Ryan’s instagram, it looks like he bought her a $150,000 car just 6 weeks ago, and now says he’s going to give it away lol”

    What probably happened is that the girl did a cost analyses of their assets, she totalled up their net worth and did a bunch of math factoring in the cost of the Teslas and calculating exactly who has more money. Or maybe she analyzed their muscles and bodyfat % and noticed that Dan has larger muscles, which makes up for him dressing like crap and not wearing nice fitted button-down shirts like Ryan does because that’s definitely a big attraction hit…Dan is apparently like 5’9″ too so eww gross (although it looks like Ryan is 5’7″ NO WONDER SHE DUMPED HIM WHAT A MANLET EWW!!). Or maybe she saw Dan Bilzerian’s instagram and thought “this guy will definitely commit to me, he seems like a good father figure and a smart investment on my part” and made a smart rational non-emotional decision.

    Or, you know:

    https://www.google.ca/search?q=dan+bilzerian+women&tbm=isch

    Maybe it just comes down to being fun, having Game, and understanding that women are emotional creatures running on emotional decisions in the moment, chasing guys who understand the value of preselection and other Game concepts.

    No matter how jacked, rich, etc you get there will always be someone more focused in those areas who’s bigger or richer or has more Teslas than you.

    But very few guys understand Game to the depths that PUA/RP can provide you. You can compete on THAT level…’cause THIS is how a rich CEO with 2 Teslas drinking Cristal on his private jet who SHOULD be a badass alpha responds to some guy banging his about-as-hot-as-a-normal-hot-college-girl ex:

    http://i.imgur.com/WdXVR0y.jpg

    …lol

    In conclusion:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8aGJN_iQu1s/VQL6jfNGYUI/AAAAAAAAANg/TKgctUQAJRQ/s1600/cartoon21.jpg

    P.S. I’m not even a super-fan of Bilzerian, but there’s no denying that he knows exactly what he’s doing with social media in relation to game…he’s created a self-fueling cycle of pussy, girls see him with girls and want to fuck him, he throws a little party and invites them, they end up on his Instagram and bring in new girls. You can do something similar on a smaller scale in your city purely through socializing and building connections and networking.

    In fact I’m going to LITERALLY hand you the gameplan for becoming your local nightlife’s Dan Blizerian:

    http://yareallyarchive.com/2012/12/#comment-heartiste-397072

    It costs zero dollars and requires minimal time investment and can be done anywhere in the world at any time, all alone by your lonesome self in a city where you don’t know anyone and don’t have any friends or wingmen. Contact-close people and throw in the occasional “throwing a party (make up some BS reason) at Bar Name next week, it’s going to be sick” and invite everyone, 75% of them won’t show up but the 25% that do work as social proof for you for the rest of them, introduce and connect everyone as well as bringing in new people that night and merging everyone into a huge set where you’re the social connector. Then if you have the space for it, throw out a “hey I’m throwing a party next week” and invite all the women you know and just the cool guys you’ve met and either party at home or pregame there then move everyone to a nearby bar (because you live near the bars, right?).

    Take pics and throw all this shit on a separate Facebook (ie – not your family/work one) or Instagram and you’re basically a mini Dan Bilzerian. Nothing I’ve described there isn’t anything that literally ANY guy can do. You could go out this weekend and start it if you wanted to. The only major advantage Dan’s money gives him is access, he can fly girls from around the world to his parties and he can provide a bunch of booze and drugs and shit and he’s friends with celebs so he can get easier access to smokin hot girls whereas a guy who isn’t at least a minor celebrity will just have to hit the pavement and approach or merge forward into sets with hot girls in them…a slower process but if you don’t have money it’s a lot faster than working your ass off for years to become a millionaire.

    You could follow this plan and live a lifestyle of abundance and you didn’t need a Tesla, or a jacked 6-pack or an Armani suit. All you needed was an understanding of Game and social dynamics and a few hours a week of effort…you could be swimming in social circle pussy in under a year and could do it without it costing you a dime, except a few bucks cover to get into some bars (until you got to know the bouncers and started getting in for free).

    https://40.media.tumblr.com/fb073fabec5fab82a22e9d167cc511b1/tumblr_inline_nrpf73VlvH1sosttm_540.jpg

    Work smarter, not harder. 😉

    @CaveClown
    “One other thing with her, I am just BORED AS FUCK with her body. I’m gonna eat the same fucking meal for dinner every night for the rest of my life…what was I thinking?”

    Fucking lol This is literally one of the big reasons I won’t do monoLTRs. If the chick is amazing and like, I want to settle down and she’s good motherly wifey material and all I could maybe do a pLTR (with no legal contracts)…but I need variety. After the New Relationship Energy wears off it’s just like, the same sex over and over because you both know eachother’s bodies and what gets eachother off so it’s like no more mystery or unpredictability…some guys are cool with that and say the sex gets better the better you know eachother but I haven’t found that to be the case, I’ve found the opposite it gets more boring and routine to me. And her body is going to get WORSE over time…mine will too, but I don’t care, I have the dominance and Game etc to still turn her on, but once she’s sagging and wrinkled and starts hitting menopause and shit it’s like wtf do I do if my dick still works, just go back to looking up porn every night like I’m a 23yo virgin again, hoping my old man dick stops working so I’m not as tempted by the hotties walking by? No thanks lol

    But then, I may die before I have my chance to reproduce and end up being evolutionary failure. So there’s that lol Maybe that’s part of why I write all this shit, just incase I fuck up and die before I pass on my genes, at least my writing can help other guys have a better shot at popping out kids. God I’m so noble lol

  5. Julien on hitting on lower SMV girls:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkKURdjtIQ

    Lot of valuable shit in this one. Here’s the TV show set he’s describing where he uses this merging forward stuff:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvw-n7N2ig0&t=6m20s

    I’ve toned down the social proof stuff like this because I’m keeping a low profile right now (in work mode for a couple years till I’m not poor anymore lol so no time to maintain the circus of big social circles right now), but every guy should understand how to do this and experiment with it. And I’ll still bust it out on nights where I feel like making some chaos or on solo nights.

  6. About the “keeping fresh” thing…
    Maybe it is just part of my personality, but I value quality and quantity way above variety.

    If it is a food I like, I can eat the same food every single day without getting bored. I don’t do that with food due to health reasons.
    I am also tempted do that with clothes (get several copies of the same stuff).

    I think this also means I’m potentially happier in a monogamous LTR, provided I get the higher quality and quantity that such an LTR could provide in an ideal scenario (currently not my real scenario).

  7. I think this also means I’m potentially happier in a monogamous LTR, provided I get the higher quality and quantity that such an LTR could provide in an ideal scenario (currently not my real scenario).

    @IAS

    Check out this comment from @ETA

    “The funny thing is that your genuine change towards alphaness that will make her like you, is what will also kill your “oneitis”, which many guys don’t want to give up, while they are under its effects.”

  8. “The real test for a man is how he lives with himself, alone. Precious few men ever truly allow themselves to be alone and learn real independence and self-reliance. The vast majority of guys (see Betas), particularly in western culture, tend to transition from mother to wife with little or no intermission between. For the most part they subscribe to the feminine imperative, becoming serial monogamists going from LTR to LTR until they ‘settle’ without ever having learned and matured into how to interact as an adult.”

    From http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/12/the-myth-of-the-lonely-old-man/

    “I’m going to suggest that most AFCs, most feminized, conditioned males, LIKE and embrace the lonely old man myth because it is a Buffer against potential rejection”

    Once upon a time my wife went to a counselor for depression related to her catching me watching porn (lol, I know, I know)

    Anyway,

    To her credit (lol), she fired this counselor when the counselor called me an idiot for hurting such a “wonderful girl” and that “doesn’t he realize that he would want to have someone around in his elder years?” and why would “he risk losing his wife and being alone?”

    He empowered her to shame the living hell out of me for the porn though, like I was lucky she stuck around after “what I did”

    The counselor was obviously thirsty as fuck, and a beta through and through.

    Anyway, posted this referral to Rollo’s post because it is probably good reading for those with oneitis or like me, a fear of being “forever alone”

  9. “@CC, you know what I’ve always found the height of hubris? The fact that the onus of “keeping a marriage ‘fresh’” always falls on the husband.”

    So true Rollo.

    I turned to porn back when the wife first cut me off from sex. Got caught several times, shamed, etc…

    I went to one session of counseling for my “addiction” just to placate her. Got shamed as i knew I would, came back and told the wife that i would no longer be going to a counselor because I will not be shamed, told the wife it was her fault for not being more interesting or available sexually, apologized for hurting her with the porn, and told her that was the one and only apology she would ever get.

    Its been brought up a few times since. Each time I listened for a bit, then told her that i will not apologize again, and told her to “do what you feel you need to do” anytime she used it to threaten the marriage.

    So i guess my question is, will women work on keeping things fresh, aiming to please as it were, with a man they have better attraction for?

  10. Social Skills Question:

    When two or more people are talking and seem to be having a decent conversation is it rude to just go up mid sentence and introduce yourself? One thing I notice my wife does is she’ll listen in on people’s conversations and just kind of interject or laugh at something they say and then interject. Both get you into the conversation. I’m just having a problem with it because I PERSONALLY hate it when people do this while I’m talking. So my question is what is a good way to handle it? Does it matter if it’s two girls or two guys or mixed?

  11. “So i guess my question is, will women work on keeping things fresh, aiming to please as it were, with a man they have better attraction for?

    Isn’t that what she’s doing now?

    My guess from your descriptions is, the sex you’re getting now is the best she can do. If it’s not enough variety for you she might just not be imaginative or adventurous enough for you. Some people just aren’t creative.

  12. @Andy

    The listening for the opening part is key. It’s just, the opening doesn’t have to be a pause in conversation like most people (maybe just most men?) think.

    A lot of convos between women are more reflex than substance. It’s like when they don’t make an effort to not talk, they just do. It’s more a way of pinging off the environment for how to feel, and putting how they feel through words and subcomms out there to get feedback on the content of their emotions and how to calibrate them, than it is a real conversation.

    So if it’s just a talk like that, you can just butt in with practically any excuse and you’ll just become part of that system. Come in with positive energy and emotions and they’ll LIKE you being there. If you’re trying to do some pickup, that’s when you start letting your frame take over and give them a diversity of emotions to associate with you etc.

    This is why you can’t just hit on the girl in the group you’re interested in btw. Any group of girls is constantly pinging off each other how to feel – it’s an emotional superunit. So even if she’s attracted to you she’s pinging off all her friends how to feel and if the sense she’s getting is that she shouldn’t be attracted to you, she’ll just bury her attraction or twist it into some other emotion.

    So anyways, you need to just be able to figure out what kind of conversation people are having. If there’s a man (or men) involved, he’s often going to be more invested in some sort of outcome to the conversation – a seduction, validation, some conveyance of information or ideas – and so you butting in may be an unwanted interference to that goal. Men will just shoot the breeze sometimes though, that’s easy enough to filter for. And it’s not uncommon for women to have directed conversations either – if they’re telling long stories about stuff that happened to them, and it’s actually important stuff or the other girl(s) seem engrossed, they’re actually having an outcome-oriented conversation (conveying important social information to each other) that interrupting them would interfere with. Or if they’re just talking logistics – say at work – same thing.

  13. My guess from your descriptions is, the sex you’re getting now is the best she can do. If it’s not enough variety for you she might just not be imaginative or adventurous enough for you.

    Unfortunately I’ve been in a lot of different LTR’s. One theory that I always have found to be true is hedonic adaptation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

    No matter what your circumstance you always end up at a base level of happiness over time. I think that as long as you have somewhere to sleep, food, a base level of money, you’re going to end up at about the same level of happiness. Everything you read here pretty much confirms this. Has nobody here had like amazing sex for a few months, and then what you thought was amazing sex turns into “normal?” Yeah you have to keep things fresh, but at some point sex with one woman is going to plane off.

    Then there’s guys like @SJF who’s woman is just so fucking wonderful that he would never think of fucking another woman. So, I guess the question you have to ask yourself is am I right about hedonic adaptation, or is @SJF using his wife as a buffer?

  14. And it’s not uncommon for women to have directed conversations either – if they’re telling long stories about stuff that happened to them, and it’s actually important stuff or the other girl(s) seem engrossed, they’re actually having an outcome-oriented conversation

    This is true. My other thought is that even though it pisses me off when people interrupt a conversation I rarely make a scene about it. And then that person usually just continues the conversation or starts a new one. The reason I say this is because in my mind a true alpha wouldn’t give a shit if he interrupts someone’s conversation.

  15. @ Andy : I think there is at least some truth to this Hedonic treadmill theory, which I usually express that happiness is more internal (mindset) than external. Red Pill knowledge / praxeology is also apparently in on that, in suggesting that you work on “inner game”, self-improve and not rely or depend on others for your happiness.

    So while I interpret that Rollo is criticizing wives that don’t make an effort, he much more importantly advocates self-reliance in the post that CaveClown quoted and linked
    http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/12/the-myth-of-the-lonely-old-man/
    Basically, it is even more critical that husbands make the effort and get what they want (even if it ends up being without their wives).

  16. Hedonic adaptation is common knowledge for executives that set what others get paid.

    Meaning, there is huge benefit to the employer to take a guy from $50k to $75k a year, there is diminishing returns at compensation above that because $75k (approx) allows people to stay at their base level of happiness. Less than that has a negative effect on base happiness levels. More than that does not equal a higher base, therefore it is taken for granted, because he just returns to the base level anyway. (which is where things like bonuses come in, they get a hit of happiness and satisfaction from something they earned, and not just more money in their “taken for granted” regular paycheck)

    Theory of course, and highly contextual. But I have seen it proven more often than not.

  17. “Isn’t that what she’s doing now?”

    Probably.

    “My guess from your descriptions is, the sex you’re getting now is the best she can do. If it’s not enough variety for you she might just not be imaginative or adventurous enough for you. Some people just aren’t creative.”

    Am I stuck on an idealized attraction level? Is she actually attracted and I am just stuck trying to get her to show attraction based off how I think it should look?

  18. “Basically, it is even more critical that husbands make the effort and get what they want (even if it ends up being without their wives).”

    Yeah I mean I guess you could get to a point where you’re married to a 40 something year old woman and knowing that fucking 24 year olds won’t improve your base happiness?

    As I’ve gotten older I have come to appreciate experiences rather than “stuff”. I understand that fucking 24 year olds won’t make me happier, but like @CaveClown says… I just don’t get this argument that eating a filet mignon every day is as good as it gets… Because it’s a fucking filet mignon? Personally I would get tired of eating a filet mignon every day.

  19. Lol if you’re gonna go the hedonic treadmill route, you need to understand that fucking a wide variety of women will itself become a hedonic treadmill.

    Becoming accustomed to ‘highs’ you can’t safely or consistently or preservingly replicate is perilous.

    So three things are important for figuring out how to have a happy, fulfilled life:

    1. Learn what you actually want.
    2. Learn to be present to the moment and consistently enjoy what it offers you; learn that everything is bounty.
    3. Don’t spike the hedonic treadmill too hard or too often. Pace your pleasures. Above all, don’t expect control over pleasures – kiss them as they go. Drugs are bad, m’kay.

    The human organism isn’t designed to feel pleasure most of the time. Learn to feel ‘happy’ (perhaps joyful is a better term, since it doesn’t have the hedonic connotation, but it’s kinda woowoo) when you aren’t feeling pleasure. Learn to not mind that it hurts.

    That’s the cheat code I think most really happy people have found.

  20. @ Andy

    When two or more people are talking and seem to be having a decent conversation is it rude to just go up mid sentence and introduce yourself? One thing I notice my wife does is she’ll listen in on people’s conversations and just kind of interject or laugh at something they say and then interject.

    Great question! It’s one I had been having trouble with.

    Old rules: You wait for a break in the convo and people would look to you to introduce yourself.

    New rules: You insert yourself appropriately into the convo with a one-word comment like “cool”. People will likely want an introduction after a bit.

  21. A theory I have about that ‘feeling happy whether or not you’re feeling pleasure’ thing is that people who subconsciously perceive that they are high status fall into this state naturally. And people who subconsciously perceive they are low-status are very necessitous of pleasure or validation to feel ‘happy.’ I also think that’s the origin of a lot of alpha vs. beta behavior.

    So root out core shame, the things that make you feel worthless. MPO FTW.

  22. “Am I stuck on an idealized attraction level? Is she actually attracted and I am just stuck trying to get her to show attraction based off how I think it should look?”

    She’s probably genuinely attracted. Attraction is cheap though, you’re really idealizing it. Like, you’re expecting the heavens to open and tell you what a good boy you are when your wife displays attraction to you? You’re expecting to have some peak experience where you finally feel like your decisions and life are validated, that they mean something?

    Nah. Attraction means she sucks your dick good.

  23. “Lol if you’re gonna go the hedonic treadmill route, you need to understand that fucking a wide variety of women will itself become a hedonic treadmill.”

    I get that. I’m just saying why deny yourself the variety? If I’ve eaten different meals my whole life and I’ve found that filet mignon is absolutely the best. That doesn’t mean I would eat filet mignon every day. It’s those little highs from different experiences that add to your life. IMO. I get that to some people food just doesn’t mean anything to them, so eating filet every day is perfectly fine. Then there are some people that eat the same food every day because they don’t have the means to eat different food, and then there are the people that don’t eat different food because of religious convictions. My point is that I just think that people that don’t like to indulge in a variety of food are very rare.

  24. @asd

    Not sure how good you are with social cues, so maybe the comment I wrote earlier about this isn’t relevant to you. I’d focus on some body language things to see if the people are having a conversation they don’t want interrupted or not. Intense eye contact, lowering of voices, and strong mirroring of body language can indicate they’re trying to go somewhere with the convo. Off-the-cuff comments and body language indicate they’re just socializing for the hell of it, and injecting yourself in will be easy.

    Of course, all this is just logistics. An alpha guy with his own MPO won’t care overmuch if some dude is butthurt you interrupted him lol. It’s just good to know in what cases that’s likely to happen.

  25. Forge,

    Attraction doesn’t feel cheap to me…scarcity and core shame, lol.

    You’re right, I do expect her to make me feel different, better, worthy even?

    When all I should expect is her body…

  26. @Andy

    Yup, if you want variety in women you should have it. I wasn’t trying to imply that you shouldn’t. You should find out what you actually want.

    It’s just that, if you aren’t happy with yourself now, you probably won’t be happy with yourself plus lots of women in the long run.

    Your insight that experiences matter more than stuff is crucial. But a lot of people treat experiences like stuff – something to be acquired and then held on to – rather than something spontaneous.

    With mastery, you can create a fertile environment for good and diverse experiences. But then the role of mastery ends – those experiences need to happen, and you need to just experience them.

    This is a tricky thing to convey, and it’s easy to misconstrue it in your head. Basically, I’m talking about being in a state of productive (by your own definition of productive) flow.

  27. Cave:

    Am I stuck on an idealized attraction level? Is she actually attracted and I am just stuck trying to get her to show attraction based off how I think it should look?

    That’s a really good question (to ask yourself). Since you did leave her already several times she will know what would make you take her back. It could be you sensing something fake about it.

    But regarding your marriage I think you should ask different questions. As it seems your wife needs a rather high level of Dread. You say she is BPD and you probably read all the stuff people were commenting about BPD-women some postings back. Such a women needs a rock solid frame and high Dread, basically being treated like shit, probably even leaving her regularly. The question isn’t so much attraction. I think your wife had some for you all the time. She didn’t leave you despite the possible loot from a divorce. You just didn’t give her the right treatment to keep her in the necessary emotional state.

    The question you should answer for yourself is whether you want a LTR/marriage with such a women or if you would prefer something “more relaxed”. You won’t get it more relaxed with your wife, at least not until she is truly past the wall or even later.

    I don’t get the impression you’d need to worry about finding some other women for yourself. If you could keep a BPD women with “dat ass” and “those big titties” around for so long, you could probably get and keep a better looking non-BPD too. Even without all that RP knowledge.

    See it like this: Now you understand what it takes to keep the LTR going well. The question is: Do you want it, including what you will have to do for it? Or do you want something else?

  28. @Andy

    I get that you’re trying to figure out the role of variety with women in your own life. Figuring out what you want isn’t easy, and fucking women on the side isn’t something you just give a go of as a married man – it’s a bit risky if you want to keep your marriage.

    It’s not an enviable circumstance, frankly.

    Only marry if you’ve already experienced abundance, and so can be sure you’re fine without it.

  29. @Ivan

    Lol. Hedonistic treadmilling is fine without attachment to outcome. It needs to be part of an aggressive striving towards creating the reality you want, not an attempt to ‘fix’ anything about yourself.

    This is why this is a hard thing to talk about. It’s kinda zen.

  30. “Only marry if you’ve already experienced abundance, and so can be sure you’re fine without it.”

    Lol, true. But if you married first, then there are very few options other than cheating, divorce, or living with the woulda, coulda, shoulda.

  31. ” Personally I would get tired of eating a filet mignon every day.”

    The solution is simple; eat the whole tenderloin.

  32. @Cave

    “Forge,

    Attraction doesn’t feel cheap to me…scarcity and core shame, lol.

    You’re right, I do expect her to make me feel different, better, worthy even?

    When all I should expect is her body…”

    Keep at it, man. I went through something similar. You’ll probably find depths of pain in you that you never knew existed before you’re free of that neediness. But I can tell you the pain does end if you let yourself feel it, and who you are after is who you want to be.

  33. You’ll probably find depths of pain in you that you never knew existed before you’re free of that neediness. But I can tell you the pain does end if you let yourself feel it, and who you are after is who you want to be.

    Several very good comments from forge. But this is in my opinion the way to go from beta to alpha. All those fears, all the pain, just agree and amplify them. Go were it really hurts, find where it hurts most and try to feel even more pain. It will set you free. The real difficulty is probably finding all the relevant hurts in you, some may be very very old.

  34. Lh,

    I think what I’m picking up on is her insecurities. Meaning, I think she’ll do just about anything to not be alone, except you know anal, which makes me think the genuine attraction is not there.

    I mean, we’re talking about a girl that made up fake childhood sex abuse stories, and got a shrink to back her up, to get out of sex and/or divorce.

    I’m not sure I agree that I could pull other women, but thank you.

    It’s like I need to hit rock bottom?

  35. Date with age appropriate woman tonight – the one I mentioned who doesn’t wear yoga pants, has a rock hard body, looks like a 38 yr old former HB9. She was so damn traditional and feminine and the opposite of every cranky old skank in my age bracket that I’m trying her out. So, yes, I’m now a fucking unicorn hunter too – you guys are ruining me.

    Field report to follow – I’m not trying to fuck her tonight, and that leaves me wondering what I am trying to do? The new MPO tells me my job tonight is to have her qualifying to me, which she is already doing. I was making arrangements for dinner and asked her if she has food preferences/issues -which of course she doesn’t!!! – and she added, “I eat healthy as I want to look good in a bikini”. I didn’t respond…He he.

    Guys, you can knock me over with a feather. The last thing on earth I thought I’d be doing right now is dating a woman with LTR potential.

    Final thought: The Red Pill changes everything. I keep finding out that I’m not who I once was and the world isn’t what I once thought it was. One of the awkward but nice benefits of that is I don’t really know what’s coming next or how I’ll handle it or even see it. It’s like seeing the world with fresh eyes. It’s a bit unnerving at times but I would not change it for the world.

  36. There is a time when you don’t want to use Game. When the stakes are high and the person you are dealing with has better Game than you. Then you need to be aware of that and avoid the use of Game.

    I agree all men should be aware of Game, that it exists, the reality of it. That does not mean that all men will become Game Jedi masters or whatever. It is a tool, and some will master it, some will just muddle through. Probably all men can benefit from 101 level pointers, but they will not be able to master certain aspects because of personality type. Only so much time in a lifetime as well.

    My ex had far more Game than me. Her Game is her most attractive feature, actually. Probably true for many people with high Game. She talked herself into upper management in her 20s with a limited educational background. I could never do that. She would say whatever she needed to say to win any argument. It was all good when she was on my side, before she turned on me. Now I’ve lost a lot. She’s lost nothing. Left me for someone she knew before me, wanted him all along, manipulating her own parents to get help and money out of the deal.

    Gaming her was and is pointless. I can’t win. In a moral sense, she should not have married me, but she cares nothing about that. Had I known better, I would have found someone easier to deal with. I’m never going to get to that level. Don’t get in fights you can’t win.

    Game sometimes is thrown around like that stupid Matrix movie, that if you only master it, you’ll be dodging bullets. That’s not real.

  37. Pain…

    I’m digging it up like a fucking mad man, hence my endless posts here, lol.

    I’m done feeling this way, that beta motherfucker gonna die.

    I’ve never quit anything in my life

  38. “One of the awkward but nice benefits of that is I don’t really know what’s coming next or how I’ll handle it or even see it. It’s like seeing the world with fresh eyes.”

    Be careful, that shit’ll keep you alive.

  39. @Striver, please change your handle to Cipher. That’s the negative Matrix character you’d be. You can beat your ex by being successful and having girlfriends yonger and hotter than she is.

  40. Not rock bottom. But living alone for some time would probably help you recovering.

    My 7 year LTR didn’t want anal too and was always afraid I’d just do it. I didn’t back then (but never formally accepted that boundary) because her pussy offered me all I wanted (and I still don’t like anal that much). But looking back with all I know now I think I should have fucked her other hole. Every boundary a women tries to build and is talking about is just a kind hint what one could do for the next level of attraction…

    I don’t think it’s a matter of attraction. It may be a matter of frame. You accepted her “no” at some point and that’s what is in place now. Until you change it.

    Oh, and: Not you are picking up on her insecurities, she is on yours. Needing the validation from “genuine attraction” is your insecurity. You got reasons to want it, no doubt. I strongly advice against ever living with a women without that attraction, it will just drag you down. But needing it is still your insecurity and you should overcome it.

  41. “Game sometimes is thrown around like that stupid Matrix movie, that if you only master it, you’ll be dodging bullets.”

    NEXT!

  42. I get that you’re trying to figure out the role of variety with women in your own life. Figuring out what you want isn’t easy, and fucking women on the side isn’t something you just give a go of as a married man – it’s a bit risky if you want to keep your marriage.

    @Forge
    I’m not trying to figure it out. I already know. I also know that I won’t derive happiness from any woman. Wife or not. Filet Mignon or not.

    “The solution is simple; eat the whole tenderloin.”
    @kfg
    I fully intend to. Surf and turf even.

  43. @ Andy

    That Forge the Sky dude is pretty darn sharp when it comes to stuff like the hedonic thermostat thingy dingy thing. He got it right @ 10:50 above on the three key points of how to manage happiness.

    I’ll let you in on a secret, Forge, ScribblerG and I have been colluding on the side via email to take our lives to a higher level. To be more satisfied, more self confident and more masterful in our relationships with others. Hey it’s working for me.

    But back to the harmonic or hedonic thing. You can’t look to someone else’s script to copy for your own. You need to know yourself, your mission and goals. In order to adapt to the hedonic treadmill, I can infinitely be happy and my happiness and satisfaction is high. I have variety (in a large number of things) and I have appreciation ( for whatever I got).

    I’ve never had super high highs and I’ve never had any lows. But my thermostatic set point is pretty high.

    Like Forge said:

    1. Learn what you actually want.
    2. Learn to be present to the moment and consistently enjoy what it offers you; learn that everything is bounty.
    3. Don’t spike the hedonic treadmill too hard or too often. Pace your pleasures. Above all, don’t expect control over pleasures – kiss them as they go.

    Don’t mind me. Find your own satisfaction. To me I’m an inscrutable mastermind. To others I’m just a lucky fool. I want to fuck my wife over a 24 year old girl anyday. It is inscrutable how that happens 27 years after I met her as a +3 to my SMV (but equal MarriageMV), but then I am quite the mastermind. I certainly master the hedonic treadmill well.

  44. You can’t look to someone else’s script to copy for your own. You need to know yourself, your mission and goals.

    I seem to remember someone telling me that I settled.

  45. Game sometimes is thrown around like that stupid Matrix movie, that if you only master it, you’ll be dodging bullets. That’s not real

    Once you’ve internalized Red Pill awareness, once its applications become part of who you are – you wont have to.

  46. @lh

    “All those fears, all the pain, just agree and amplify them. Go were it really hurts, find where it hurts most and try to feel even more pain. It will set you free. The real difficulty is probably finding all the relevant hurts in you, some may be very very old.”

    That is exactly how I did it. Be vigilant for unexplained pain, then grab onto it and don’t let it go till you’re screaming.

  47. “You can’t look to someone else’s script to copy for your own.”

    That is the straight road to a life of quiet desperation.

  48. Good advice on when to get married. Once you’ve experienced abundance then and ONLY then should you make that decision. In LTRs, experiencing abundance enables you to filter the right females to commit to as well.
    Through years of trial and error, I’ve now come to a point now where I’m pretty good at filtering females. Experiences with women enable you to “sense” trash. It’s like a Spider-Man sixth sense shit.

  49. Pain…

    I’m digging it up like a fucking mad man, hence my endless posts here, lol.

    I’m done feeling this way, that beta motherfucker gonna die.

    I’ve never quit anything in my life”

    That’s a comment I left some months ago almost verbatim.

  50. @SJF

    Look, here’s my problem… I know that I won’t die fulfilled fucking one woman the rest of my life. But I want to believe that it’s possible. You seem to have figured out that it is possible (for you.) So, for you it’s possible. So it is possible. How the fuck is it possible? I want a straight fucking answer. Like what the fuck is it? lol.

    To others I’m just a lucky fool. I want to fuck my wife over a 24 year old girl anyday.

    I don’t think you’re a lucky fool at all. It sounds to me like you’ve got oneitis. Is that they key? Allow yourself to indulge in some degree of oneitis to placate that part of your life in order to focus on more important shit? Have you even overcome oneitis in the first place? Do you just come to grips with the fact that you aren’t going to fuck 24 yr olds because divorce sucks, accept that, internalize that and move on? Are you saying that self delusion is the key to your happiness? If you admit self delusion is the key to happiness then how could you possibly delude yourself?

  51. Rollo,
    “Once you’ve internalized Red Pill awareness, once its applications become part of who you are – you wont have to.”

    The value of a education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think
    Albert Einstein

  52. “I want to fuck my wife over a 24 year old girl any day. It is inscrutable how that happens 27 years after I met her.” Well, well. I hear something new every day, but this one beats anything I have heard this year. And I hear a lot of stuff I can tell you that.

    Do men have a hamster too?

  53. @ Andy : For all the AWALT and even AMALT stuff, there are outliers and individual personality has to count at least for something. Just because SJF or I can be happier with 1 woman doesn’t mean you can. And that is already assuming we (me / SJF) are not just deluding ourselves in thinking this (I very well may be given that I don’t have more experience, he knows better).

    For the food analogy I can very reliably tell you I’d be happy eating one of my favorite foods every single day if it wouldn’t mess up my health (but it does, so…). But that may be because I don’t care that much about food in the first place.

  54. “For the food analogy I can very reliably tell you I’d be happy eating one of my favorite foods every single day if it wouldn’t mess up my health (but it does, so…). But that may be because I don’t care that much about food in the first place.”

    I know i started the food analogy on this thread, but it really has nothing to do with actual food!

    I’ll rephrase…

    Fuck the same pussy for the rest of my life, what was I thinking!

    Better? lol

    Either I did not pick a woman I could be faithful to, or I am unable to be faithful at all at this point in my life…one of those. (for the record, it’s both)

  55. @Andy, look at it this way, I’ve had sex with over 40 women in my sexual past. Most were amazing, some were meh. I enjoyed all of them, and I regret not a one. I’ve also had sex with Mrs. T for 20 years now, and in my line of work I’ve always had opportunities to fuck women in the 24 y.o. demo you’re describing. My sexual experience is something most men only dream of, but it was the result of the decisions I made at the time.

    Now look at a guy like Roosh. He’s banged far more women than I have, by all accounts in the hundreds, and after all that what is it he’s looking for now? What’s frustrating him the most? That he can’t find a woman whom he’d like to consistently bang for the rest of his life. After countless lays he wants exactly what I’ve had for 20 years now – children, a family, a woman who respects him as an Alpha lover, father, husband, patriarch of the family, etc.

    Would I like to bang a 24 y.o.? Yeah, for sure. Does my wife still get me off? Absolutely. I’ve experienced both and they were and are pretty good, but either will only ever be a complement to my life and what I’m doing, never the focus of it.

  56. @Forge

    Brother, you are dropping some choice info here today. Some things are difficult to explain though. I get that and cosign 100%.

    Guys reading the comments, that are NOT married yet, read Forge’s words and take heed.

    Forge, Glenn and of course SJF – great stuff fellas.

    I read confusion in some of the comments re: abundance, fucking your wife forever..lol..and ” how do you know?”…

    I see a whole lotta Feelllzzz represented. Nothing wrong with feeellzzz sometimes, but be aware of overcomplicating basic shit.

    Forge alluded to experiencing things as opposed to collecting experiences like ” stuff “. That was amazing and it gave me a ” why didn’t I say that ” moment.

    *Disclamer* I have been fucking my wife for the past 18 years. In fact, I fucked her last night, then again this morning. : ) I might be able to coax another lay out of her tonight, but I will give it a rest, literally. I am still attracted to my wife, and I do not have to go through any mental gymnastics. I’ve always found her very attractive from the first time I saw her, and not much has changed on my end. It is NOT impossible to do this. Much like Liam Neeson in the Taken movies, I posses certain skills…but any man can have these skills and mindsets.

    All men reading here that are not married, get out and start fucking women. I want you to fuck 3’s and 6’s and 9’s and 10’s ( if they get drunk enough…*kidding*). You must have as many sexual experiences as your penis will allow you to have. You will not be having these experiences to ” collect notches “. Change your mindset.

    You will be having these sexual experiences in the beginning, to help you figure out what it is you like sexually. This will be the equivalent of lifting in the gym. You will need to get your sexual ” weight ” up. Sex is not a ” thing ” that you ” do ” . Sex is an experience that you have. As odd as it sounds, please trust me on this one. You need to perfect your strokes/thrusts, work on angles and various grips, and most importantly you need to concentrate on how everything FEELS to you. This only comes through consistent practice.

    Second, while have sex with as many women that will hold still long enough, I want you to Map them out. Take multiple mental notes. You will see certain patterns develop. These patterns will make you into a sexual God. EXPERIENCE. How warm does she feel? Hot even? How’s she breathing? what does it mean for this particular chick? Nipples very sensitive, or not that much? I knew many chicks that could orgasm initially from nipple-play alone.

    There is more to sex than sticking your bone in a woman. Hair pull? Most get off, but it’s to degrees. Your job while going through multiple punanis is to map this stuff out and figure out how this all works in unison. It’s fun stuff, trust me guys.

    Sex is only ever boring if you are just going through half hearted motions. Think about that for a minute.

    Do it right and girls will come back over and over, with genuine desire for you. Nothing’s sexier than a woman wetting herself while in your presence, pining for you to take her.

    Oh, and while I am at it, I want you to drop forever the thought of qualifying or being ” worthy ” of a woman. Cut that shit out of your brain FOREVER and never think it again.

    Game them in and out of the bedroom ( or livingroom, or kitchen, or dining room…).

    Married guys except Cave ( Cave, my man, has some other-type things going on ) How well do you know your wife sexually? I mean really? Better yet, how sexually attracted are you to her and why is it that way? What is it that’s ” boring ” about sex with 1 person in your eyes? Did you not have enough experiences prior to marriage?

    That can be a tough one, but if your wife is sexually available to you, and you have a case of the blahs over sex with her, it’s not her…it’s you. This is a mental condition that will follow you from chick to chick unless you correct your mindset concerning sex and experiences. It has nothing to do with oneitis at all.

    A man should have masculine skillsets, imo. One of those skillsets is the ability to sexually dominate a woman and exercise her abilities. She is built for it physically and emotionally. It’s the most natural thing in the world.

  57. I have to break in here and add that Mr. Tomassi is absolutely right.

    There are sublime and inestimable pleasures with having spent your younger years driving a globally distributed harem through your bed and I won’t knock it for younger men who haven’t yet felt on top of the world with sexual conquests.

    But in the end, it’s about knowing you’ve had it and you don’t have regrets of not having it. And being eventually stable and chasing after other things that also bring power, joy, illumination and deep incredible satisfaction in life is part of the larger goal of a man.

    Yes, it’s fun to flip an innocent young thing over and teach her the startling, delightful capacities of her backside. But it’s not the only thing. When you have a good, respectable and well-partnered woman to help you rule your kingdom with, then even more things are possible.

    Marriage is not for everyone. I completely understand the refusal of young men today to attach themselves to the horrific and typical carousel of legal devastation that marriage means in the West. And I won’t recommend it, since I appreciate the risks.

    But it is better to rule with a queen, than to be an aged king with an empty chair beside him. As long as the kingdom submits to the will of the sovereign, there is room for a queen to dwell between.

    But choose wisely.

    Henry VIII married for love several times and ended up beheading them out of frustration at his mistake. Watch yourself.

    Regards,

    Ivan

    http://www.darktriadman.com

  58. @Rollo,

    ” Now look at a guy like Roosh. He’s banged far more women than I have, by all accounts in the hundreds, and after all that what is it he’s looking for now? What’s frustrating him the most? That he can’t find a woman whom he’d like to consistently bang for the rest of his life. After countless lays he wants exactly what I’ve had for 20 years now – children, a family, a woman who respects him as an Alpha lover, father, husband, patriarch of the family, etc.”

    A lot of guys seem to have a problem with the mechanics of marriage and relationships. After a while, guys like Roosh don’t really even know what it is that they want, because going through the motions for so long, without understanding what was truly happening in their heads, has caused a confusion that even settling down will never ” cure “.

    You give Roosh what you and I have and ultimately he still won’t be satisfied. He may be irreversibly broken.

  59. @YaReally
    Hey, you.

    I’ve been in depression for 3 years after my red-pill hit me from all corners and aspects of my life. My dreams were slowly shattered like a domino one after another and I couldn’t muster up the courage to leave my room for a good 2 years. A lot of things before my first red pill were building up the depression from within until it just ruptured and I was done/10 with life.

    What you wrote about depression in your archive: http://yareallyarchive.com/2012/9/#comment-heartiste-367897
    really hit me like a ton of bricks.

    I have to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your advice. I was raised to believe that red-pillers were people who just spouted politically-incorrect bullshit and that their theory of everything involved the mentality of being misogynistic pigs. I was taught to call bullshit on that and to put women on a pedestal, but I’ve constantly been disappointed; not so with women themselves, but with my own self for making myself vulnerable around women who hurt me.

    After reading tons of your stuff, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I cannot yet accept the new reality that has opened up before me. I almost refuse to believe it. I hope that through venturing and moving on step-by-step that I can finally break this invisible plateau that has concerned me and my life for the past 2-3 years and finally accept it so as to improve.

    There are people out there like me who can’t be generalized as just chodes, but really just people who have been hurt badly and it’s these people who can appreciate your occasional temper tantrums on the comments section. Keep it up!

  60. Greek Freak, one step at a time, sir. Any improvement in your situation, of any sort, that’s a win. Winning football teams have higher testosterone, we like winning. Confirm your wins to yourself. Don’t catastrophize over backsliding (don’t catastrophize at all, but that’s easy to say and hard to do sometimes), it’s just an event, don’t blow it all up out of proportion, don’t dwell or ruminate on it, don’t rub your own face in it.

    Make a little plan, execute it, then evaluate it. To someone truly depressed this seems insurmountable, I got that. So let’s pick a small, feasible victory.

    I mean a little one – let’s say a bachelor needs to clean his bathroom, ok, toilet first because it’s tedious and the floor may get wet. Mirror next, then countertop and sink because any cleaner that floats off of the mirror gets used on the countertop. Mop the floor last. Job done, his quarters are better and more organized, when he walks into the bathroom next it won’t be dirty or cluttered and thus demoralizing. Then see if anything different would have worked better. Finally tell himself “Done! Job done, well done!” and go on to something else. Oh, by the way, now that room is fit for company, someone can come to his dwelling and he doesn’t need to rush around making sure the bathroom is not disgusting. So there’s an added win potential there.

    Do the same thing with the kitchen. Don’t let stuff just pile up to the point that the clutter starts to become a fixture in your life, just say “Ok, this one end table is going to look better”. Or the same thing on the car. Or the desk at work. Or anything. Pick some little, easy win problem, plan to crush it and follow through then say “Hah. That was easy“.

    Lots and lots of tiny little victories like that help build up morale, help push away negative thoughts. Neuroplasticity tells me that we can get better at things we do a lot; that’s how we learn to throw better, run better, swim, etc. through repetition.

    A man who spends a lot of time surfing the web to download porn will get good at that – not a super quality skill, is it? Same amount of time spent just sitting on the porch or in the garage learning how to sand a piece of wood till it is smooth as satin, then carefully stain it and polish it to a pretty surface – that man is on the way to a skill that is both esthetically pleasing and potentially moneymaking. Same time, different victories.

    Small victories. Lots of small victories. In Game terms, lots of approaching with a zero expectation, ZFG mindset.

    I was taught to call bullshit on that and to put women on a pedestal, but I’ve constantly been disappointed; not so with women themselves, but with my own self for making myself vulnerable around women who hurt me.

    I hear you, man, believe me I really do. Here’s something that Blaximus, YaReally and many other men can cosign, but right now you may find it incredible: women want to like the men they are around. They want to be around likable men, they want to be around fun and interesting men. Sure, there are some mean, nasty pieces of work out there who truly enjoy being ballcrushers, but they are a minority, a pretty small one at that.

    Make yourself interesting, and women will be interested.

    PS:
    Women don’t want to be put on a pedestal, not really, not inside. Unless maybe it’s to give a man they like a chance to peek up their skirt. They want to be possessed by a man they are attracted to, not idolized by any man.

  61. Good point Rollo. You can tell when you write it’s from satisfaction. Tosh writes from a perspective of contempt or anger. He sometimes makes good points, but it seems there’s always an anger undertow to his writings.

  62. but either will only ever be a complement to my life and what I’m doing, never the focus of it.

    I have a question about oneitis. It seems that any married man would have oneitis for the simple fact that he is married. It doesn’t have to be debilitating, as I know it can become, but more simple because of what Rollo describes here.

    Or is it that oneitis, by its definition, is debilitating and what Rollo describes here is something else?

  63. Women don’t want to be put on a pedestal, not really, not inside. Unless maybe it’s to give a man they like a chance to peek up their skirt. They want to be possessed by a man they are attracted to, not idolized by any man.

    1000 times, yes.

  64. http://therationalmale.com/2011/08/30/there-is-no-one/

    I think there’s been a mischaracterization of ONEitis. It’s necessary to differentiate between a healthy relationship based on mutual respect and a lopsided ONEitis based relationship. I’ve had more than a few guys seeking my advice, or challenging my take on ONEitis, essentially ask me for permission to accept ONEitis as legitimate monogamy. In my estimation ONEitis is an unhealthy psychological dependency that is the direct result of the continuous socialization of the soulmate myth in pop culture. What’s truly frightening is that ONEitis has become associated with being a healthy normative aspect of an LTR or marriage.

  65. @Anonymous Reader

    Good points re:depression. It’s a tough one to rectify.

    ” Women don’t want to be put on a pedestal, not really, not inside. Unless maybe it’s to give a man they like a chance to peek up their skirt. They want to be possessed by a man they are attracted to, not idolized by any man. ”

    Hear, hear. I don’t even get miffed by chicks that try to come across as if they require being placed upon a pedestal. It’s a test. Put them on a pedestal at your own risk.

    A majority of females do indeed want to be around likeable men, men that can bring out their femininity. The FI has conned the living shit out of everyone, especially women themselves. They cannot consistently fight their biology though.

    ” Make yourself interesting, and women will be interested. ”

    Understand that women have a different concept of ” interesting “. Rollo has numerous posts delving into this. Make no mistake about it though, masculinity is always interesting to them.

  66. @Stingray

    ONEitis is debilitating. Thinking that another person is the only “one” for you has a disastrous effect, especially for men.

    I love my wife and plan to be with her until death do us part. I am not, however, under any illusions that she is in any way ” the one ” or a ” soul-mate “. It is possible ( but unlikely ) that I could go home tonight and find all of my belongings on the lawn and the locks changed Lol… I would be bummed, but not destroyed. I’m with her, and she with me, by choice. Nothing special or magical involved. We do pretty good together.

    If I find my stuff on the lawn though, I have at least 4 prospective chicks I could call on for sex once I get my new place. LMFAO.

  67. ONEitis is debilitating. Thinking that another person is the only “one” for you has a disastrous effect, especially for men.

    Cosign x1,000. I have done that exactly once. It was bad for both of us in fairly short order (pedestalization) but probably did more damage to me. Not. Ever. Again.

    Oneitis is a luxury only women can afford.

  68. “Understand that women have a different concept of ” interesting.””

    A man with a philosophy is boooooring.

    A man with scars, a rifle, a de Havilland Moth and another girl is interesting.

  69. kfg,

    One thing about having daughters is that I’ve honed my ability to explain things to females without ” losing ” them in the process. It’s a generalization, but a lot of women get information overload very quickly and lose interest. There’s a different way of communicating with them that’s almost the opposite of communicating with a man.

    That shit’s fascinating.

    I have old photos from my racing days. My girls love any pic where the front wheels are 5 feet off the ground and the entire bottom of the car is visible. When they ask me to tell them about it, I stick to more emotional descriptives, ” I can only see the sky…I can’t hear anything but the motor…the car SLAMS to the ground..etc. etc. “. If I wanted to kill their interest I would talk about 800 horsepower, Lenco 5 speed transmission, Mickey Thompson 12 inch slicks – details.

  70. Oh, and Greek Freak – lift weights. Lift. Weights. Every. Day. Use good form, go slow, lift. No time? Do pushups. Do 10. Heck, do 6. But do them. Working the upper body muscles like that will increase your testosterone. We need testosterone, it’s what makes us men. Any depressed man is likely low on T, working the body as it is designed to do does good things and specifically will help get out of that mental fog.

    Also any man in the northern hemisphere this time of year who finds himself getting a little fuzzy should consider taking Vitamin D. It’s crucial to beating seasonal blahs, helps with immune system, is good all around. You can even get a blood test done for Vit-D and see how low it is. The standard 1,000 IU per day dose is way low for many men.

    But exercise, every single day sets of simple stuff like pushups or free weights that can be done in the bedroom in 15 to 30 minutes, that’s a solid health builder right there. Both physical health and mental health.

    Blaximus:
    It’s a generalization, but a lot of women get information overload very quickly and lose interest.

    That is true, very true. Even nerd-girls in STEM can get info-overload.

    There’s a different way of communicating with them that’s almost the opposite of communicating with a man.

    Excellent. This applies in so many different places.

  71. @Anonymous Reader

    True about vit D. I get mine tested about twice a year since I spend so much time indoors. Last test revealed lower levels, so doc prescribed 50,000 IU’s once a week for a month. After the month was up, I was still low, but not terribly. Doc said 2,000 IU’s a day and we’ll recheck in Jan.

    Every man 40 and above should get T levels checked. Crazy shit happens to men’s test levels after 40 and there is no definitive explanation why this is so. Stress, xenoestrogens, hormones in meat…. could be any damn thing, even feminism itself. : ) You’re correct that exercising helps T levels, but beware excess cardio. Sex helps T also, but oddly enough, masturbation does not.

    My last test for T came in at 825, but I’m more concerned about estrogen levels. High T with high estrogen is a non-starter. So I’ll insist my doc test my Estro levels a couple of times a year. That’s what insurance is for.

  72. “@SJF
    Look, here’s my problem… I know that I won’t die fulfilled fucking one woman the rest of my life. But I want to believe that it’s possible. You seem to have figured out that it is possible (for you.) So, for you it’s possible. So it is possible. How the fuck is it possible? I want a straight fucking answer. Like what the fuck is it? lol.”

    Andy, the answer is when I met my wife I could discriminate that she was a decent catch. She got through a check list of sorts I put together and she didn’t come up too negative on most of my checklist and I figured I’d probably got what every man is after: a real winner. I grabbed her and didn’t let go. There aren’t many genuinely good ones out there that any sane man would want to spend a lifetime with.

    And so I figured “…it seemed like the right thing to do…”.

    She was complimentary to me. She had positives I didn’t have at the time and I had positives she could use to be better and happy in a LTR.

    During my marriage I tended to mind my hedonic treadmill with the three points that Forge the Sky mentioned at 10:50 AM today. And I have derived benefits as mentioned by Dark Triad Man at 4:46 today.

    It reminds me of an obscure blog that existed back in 2011 by a guy with a pseudonym of Solomon II.

    No keep in mind, I am not advocating marriage for a young man today. I just like mine. Sure I’m ego invested in it. But I chose wisely and I spent well rewarded effort on it. But I had a vision and a will and a way.

    Here is a link to a good blog post by Heartise on Hedonic Convergence:

    “Happiness in love rests in large part on your ability to get past your ego and see yourself for who you truly are and how much you actually bring to the table. It’s a soul-wrenching process of self-examination that sometimes only happens after years of reality have pounded into you the fact of your true worth. If you don’t like your market value, then do what you can to raise it. Otherwise, keep tilting at windmills. You never know, someday soon human nature might change.”

    I never wavered in my maintenance of my LTR to a +3 SMV woman. But then again, I’m fortunate that I had a lot of resources and my intellect brought a lot to the table.

    Sticking with her reminds me of an obscure blog that existed back in 2011 by a guy with a pseudonym of Solomon II. He had this one post that I resonate with in terms of me being with my now 50 year old wife (Now it is too difficult to link to and I will copy and paste here. His blog has a backstory covered by Dalrock and Roosh.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=solomon+II+archive&oq=solo&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i57j69i65j69i60l2.2415j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
    Dalrock respected Solomon’s request to take down the blog, Roosh, being Roosh didn’t. I don’t know the ethics of posting this, but I like it for what it represents:

    Proverb 28: Women Can Age Beautifully
    January 18, 2011 by Solomon II

    A while back I was in Las Vegas for a new product showcase. We were a few men down, so I ended up working the booth with two of my clients. One is a 28 year old player from Brooklyn, the other, a 72 year old Irishman from Philly with last name I still can’t pronounce.

    Since the three of us had worked together several times before, we could talk freely during the slow hours. My phone and Brooklyn’s phone started buzzing one afternoon with girls sending dirty pics and telling us to hurry home for our “surprise”. Of course, Brooklyn and I had given different return dates to each woman to ensure that we would have a full night to
    enjoy the surprises without our phones blowing up.

    “I’ll be back Monday, can’t wait to see you” to Michelle, “I’ll be back Tuesday, can’t wait to see you” to Jennifer, “I’ll be back Wednesday, can’t wait to see you” to a different Jennifer,a.k.a “hot Jen”, and “I’ll be back Thursday, can’t wait to see you” to Rachael was my deal.

    Brooklyn had me beat by two bitches. The nerve of some guys.

    When the pic on your left [ommitted] graced my screen, Old Man Philly started laughing uncontrollably. He started going on and on about how much better it is to be a “young buck” today than it was back in his day. He was wowed by how I could turn my screen from side to side and zoom in on her tits, and just stood there shaking his head with a big grin on his face.

    You kids crack me up. This is unbelievable! How do you talk these girls into letting you take pictures of them like that?

    We don’t, Philly. They take them with their own phones and send them to us.

    You gotta be kidding me? Why in the hell would a lady do something like that?

    They’re not ladies.

    Un-freaking-believable. If I had a daughter and she did something like that for you two yard birds, I’d send her to the street corner so at least she could get paid for being a goddamn whore.

    I guess they like the power of being sexually desirable.

    Where the hell do these girls find power in having an old geezer like me look at their ass? Surely they know you two idiots are going to show these around.

    Let me tell you two knuckleheads something…

    Thinking we were in for a 30 minute sermon on the evils of taking up with women of ill repute, Brooklyn and I pulled up two chairs, turned our phones off, and gave our full attention to Old Philly out of respect.

    As usual, he wasn’t short on advice, but we were shocked at what he had to say.

    If I were you boys, I’d fuck every last one of these little whores. If I had the unfortunate occurrence to be 31 in today’s world, I’d show those women a thing or two.

    Wow. Not what we expected.

    Both of my boys are married to two of the biggest bitches and liars on the planet. Jim is an aeronautical engineer with Boeing, and Tony is a corporate lawyer for Apple. I raised both of them to have balls big enough to handle anything, but these harlots give them hell constantly. Women these days are spoiled and irreverent, and they’re not worth more than a
    fuck. One of my boys played College football in New York, and the other in Pennsylvania. I taught them to be men, not pussies. But I swear to God these two bitch daughters-in-law of mine have my whole family worked up. They threaten divorce, flirt with other men on the computer, and send those things that are like phone emails [text messages] to other men with words that are inappropriate for a married woman. My sons find them later, but they can’t say anything or they’ll end up in a screaming fight or divorce court.

    I told both of my boys that I was disappointed in them for letting women get to them like that, but after I started talking more to those two cunts [yes, the old man really said “cunt”], I realized that even I couldn’t do a thing with them. I mean, it’s crazy. You can’t punch them, but that’s exactly what they need. They need a man to knock the shit out them and then see how independent and feisty they feel. Both of those bitches are worthless, and need to be put in their place. They’re both brats.

    I’m glad you two boys are smart enough to see through that mess and deal with these girls they way they deserve. Keep treating them like the rubbish they are unless you want to end up like my two boys.

    Brooklyn and I were shocked. First of all, we had just heard the C word and the F bomb dropped by a man who hadn’t said a curse word in the three years we knew him. The man won’t even tell a dirty joke at a bar if there’s a female bartender or a “lady” anywhere within earshot.

    Naturally, Brooklyn and I chimed in, telling Old Man Philly about the girls we’ve been with and how while many of them certainly had their charms, there’s not a damn one of them worth the time and effort in the long run. As the trio stood there ignoring potential clients in lieu of woman-bashing and comparing naked photos of random chicks on our phones, Brooklyn made a comment about one girl’s tits. He said “yeah, but when she’s old and
    wrinkly, those things will be disgusting”.

    That’s when Old Man Philly changed his tone.

    Women can age beautifully, you know.

    Uh oh. That sermon we expected earlier was about to be delivered.

    Let me tell you boys something. I don’t take back anything I said about you guys running around with these little girls, since that’s evidently all that’s available these days. But there’s no reason for you to disrespect my wife.

    Sorry, we didn’t mean to be disrespectful to…

    Shut up. Both of you.

    Yes sir.

    Listen to me. A good woman ages beautifully. When I look at my wife, I see the most gorgeous woman in the universe. Her wrinkled hands got that way by keeping up with my two boys and working hard for them while I was on the road. The lines under her eyes are from years of shedding tears for me when I was at war, and those wrinkles on her brow are from decades of worry for me and my two sons. It was her legs they held on to when they
    were learning to walk, her lap was where they learned to read, and her breasts were their first nourishment. The first kiss those boys ever received was from her lips, and God willing, my last kiss will be from her lips.

    You two don’t know what you’re missing – or maybe you do. But all I know is that she’s as beautiful, desirable, and lovely today as the day I met her, and I wouldn’t trade one second with her for a lifetime of rowdiness with one of those harlots you guys have waiting for you back home.

    You two don’t know what beauty is. In a way, I feel sorry for both of you. I’m not getting on your case, because if there’s one thing I’ve learned from my own sons, it’s that women aren’t what they used to be.

    The whole thing is just goddamn pathetic if you ask me.

    I’m going to write down what you just said. Do you mind if I use it on my blog? A blog is kind of like a newspaper, but people read it on their computer.

    I don’t care.

    Old Man Philly walked away and started talking to a buyer from JC Penny. I returned to my phone to see that my former #1 girl who “loves” me had set up a date with some random guy she stalked on Facebook (she ended up fucking him on the second “date” which by her own admission was nothing more than a booty call). Brooklyn opted to call his wife, but she didn’t answer, and I could tell he was disappointed but not surprised. He dialed a
    different number and asked “is she with you?” quickly hung up, mumbled “lying bitch” under his breath, then turned his attention to one of our competitor’s show models to set up a rendezvous for that night.

    When the show closed, I opened my laptop and starting writing while Brooklyn stared at the cold concrete floor in a daze. My #1 girl was out doing what she does best, and evidently, so was his. We didn’t have to discuss Old Man Philly’s sermon, because our silence said it all. Our minds were on two very sexy, but certainly not beautiful women, and we both knew it. I think we were a little embarrassed of ourselves, because we both knew better than to get emotionally wrapped up in the ”independent and adventurous” modern women we put in rotation. It wasn’t the girl’s fault, it was ours and we knew it.

    I wonder if my former #1 girl or Brooklyn’s wife will ever have a strong Alpha male talk about them the way Philly talked about his wife? I highly doubt it. But once again, a very simple principle is repeatedly ignored by women like this: They can choose to be sexually popular for a few short years in the eyes of every man, or opt for a lifetime of beauty in the
    eyes of the one man who loves them.

    Beauty isn’t skin deep, and it doesn’t fade. Beauty is not a physical attribute; it’s an aura that is admired by men and women, young and old alike. Beauty is a timeless gift given freely and without hesitation as a birth right to all young women, but very few of them recognize,protect, or cherish it.

    Philly’s sermon about his wife is proof that women can age beautifully, but unfortunately, it takes a little grace, class and effort *gasp*, so the modern woman opts for being sexy in lieu of being beautiful. The world is crawling with sexy, ugly women who should not be valued for anything more than whats between their legs – it’s the only thing you can count on out of
    womankind these days.

    Who better to fuck the ugliest of women than the ugliest of men? Hey, at least my life has purpose.”

    So Andy, my wife is a good woman and I have two nice young children, a son turning 21 in a month and a 23 year old daughter. When my wife grows older by the decade you won’t find me not finding beauty in her. She was attractive when I met her and she has maintained that attractiveness.

    All I had to do was not fuck up my LTR by knowing what I wanted and sticking to it. With desire and skill. It may end tomorrow but I’m still going to pursue it with the best imitation of myself. I have no regrets. and truth be told I actually have no desire to fuck a 24 year old. But that’s just me. Your testosterone level may vary from mine. (A man has to write his own script.)

    I hope to have a healthy relationship based on mutual respect and not a lopsided ONEitis based relationship.

  73. I still like fucking my wife, but it’s only been about a year. So who knows.

    Game is natural for pretty much any man, is my conclusion. When I feel good, I game naturally. The only time I don’t, is when I feel anxious or feel like crap. Which is usually the 5 days a week I call “work days.”

  74. Forgot this link at 9:03 above:

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2007/05/09/hedonic-convergence/

    And I screwed up bit of that code and formatting, sorry.

    And Rollo had some good points in an essay on all the gnashing of teeth about what path is in a man’s best interest. It is your decision to make on how you want to proceed forward with in your inter-sexual relationships. Once again, I’m not advocating for this that or the other. I’m advocating for a man to figure out his own script after a fully informed red pill awareness and I heartily advocate for Always Defaulting to Game.

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/04/03/hear-me-now-believe-me-later/

    Patience

    “So, it’s with this in mind that I came to learn to have patience with men who were diametrically opposed to what I offer as positively masculine enlightenment here. Over the years on the SoSuave forum I gradually made friends of formerly hostile opponents for no other reason than patiently awaiting their having an experience that validated some principle or behavior I was trying to relate to them. Former critics (JOPHIL, R.I.P.) became fantastic friends once they’d experienced first hand the dynamic I was describing. All it took was a bit of patience, and a consistent, cogent explanation of idea.

    I’ve stated in the past that unplugging chumps from the Matrix is dirty work, akin to triage; save the ones you can and read last rites to the terminal. However it’s equally important not to casually NEXT a guy that could be unplugged once he’s been made brutally aware of the system that’s keeping him trapped. Often enough it’s his lack of traumatic experience combined with an extensive conditioning that’s holding him back from really understanding a Game-aware perspective. He’s not an asshole, he simply hasn’t had the experience that would make him reconsider his perspective.

    In the same respect that I feel relationships based on negotiated desire are disingenuous, I also believe that coercing someone else to see my perspective is not a valid expression of genuine desire. I cannot make a person believe what I do, I can only present my belief to them. A person, man or woman, has to come to that genuine change of their own volition. I’m not interested in a readership full of yes-men clones; there needs to be challenges in perspective for a marketplace of ideas to thrive. I encourage people to tell me I’m wrong, because if my ideas can’t weather open scrutiny then they aren’t strong enough ideas to profess.

    I don’t want to unplug robots from the Matrix just to make them robots of my own perspective. I may be guilty of a tough-love approach by a well needed kick in the ass to understand the reality of what a guy may be going through in that moment, but I know that a real shift in understanding comes not from force, but from a person determining that shift for themselves. Jarring a person awake isn’t the same as attacking them personally.

    So at the end of all this I want to encourage all of my Game-aware readers not to give up too readily on the guys they may think are hopeless. In fact I’d suggest that the guys you know who are the most hostile to your perspective are the ones who’ll more readily accept and understand your wanting to make them Game-aware. Their fervency in the Matrix is only a short trip to fervency in positive masculinity if you’re patient enough. All these guys are just one traumatic experience away from grasping the truth of Game.”

  75. @Blax

    re: “All men reading here that are not married, get out and start fucking women. I want you to fuck 3’s and 6’s and 9’s and 10’s ( if they get drunk enough…*kidding*). You must have as many sexual experiences as your penis will allow you to have. You will not be having these experiences to ” collect notches “. Change your mindset.

    You will be having these sexual experiences in the beginning, to help you figure out what it is you like sexually….”

    Well, that comment was epic. Haha, we more inexperienced guys don’t get enough realtalk about how to do sex healthily.

    Also, the stuff about T and vitamin D is on point. If you live in any northern climate you need to supplement that shit in the winter, and maybe even in spring/autumn if you work indoors/have dark skin. SE asian, S Indian, African, whatever decent – that skin tone is designed to operate under much stronger sunlight.

    Fish oil might be able to combat depression as well. It seems to make a big difference for me, anecdotally. The studies are slightly ambiguous, but that might just be because good-quality fish oil supplements are hard to find – the stuff goes rancid quickly without proper treatment, and many of them have high levels of lead/mercury. I do PR for nutraceutical companies so I’m kinda in the know on the good ones, but for most people I’d probably just eat fresh fish a few times a week. Anyways, we get too many omega-6 oils from our grain-fed meat; the fish’s high levels of omega-3’s are important for optimal functioning.

    Interestingly (and this, though IMHO very reasonable, isn’t as scientifically supported yet) certain fats found in (some) fish and dairy fat seem to have a profound regulatory effect on blood sugars and (in a downstream fashion) obesity. The original paper I’m thinking of is dense, here’s a lay article: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-07/nmmf-rwd071515.php

    So, um. About time the whole low-fat thing died. Don’t even get me started on how that interfaced with heart disease.

    Finally, and this is my opinion more than established science, the EPA portion of the oil in fish is very anti-inflammatory and this may be why it has an effect on depression. Depression may well be an inflammatory condition – at least in some people. (For others it may be psychologically based – ‘depression’ diagnosis is based on symptoms rather than causes currently).

    Anyways we’re really going down the rabbit hole here lol. I just think it’s good to cover the basics for guys who might be interested in this stuff. Next week: stay tuned for epigenetics! Then on to the microbiome!

    ;p

  76. @Forge

    Thanks for the links. On my ” to read ” list.

    Over the years I’ve read a metric ton re: inflammation. It’s a silent killer and I’d wager 90% of people suffering from some stage of it are not aware.

    Good call about rancid fish oil. I used to buy the bottles with hundreds of pills, so I have shitloads of rancid oil at home.

    About 3 years ago I made a concerted effort to put healthier fats back in my family’s diet. No more margarine, only butter, and when I can I get it from Amish country where they churn it themselves.

    Yeah, inflammation and heart disease. There’s a reason cholesterol can clog arteries and it’s from the damage to veins and arteries caused by inflammation. We’d die without cholesterol, or at least be very ill.

    Fascinating stuff, everyone should take some time to learn how not to die so quickly.

  77. Dang, I took a day and a half off from from TRM and have missed a lot of good stuff in this thread. Have a bit of reading to do. I needed to unplug for just a bit from everything and let things settle and stop drinking from the firehose.

    @Cave Clown wrote:
    “90% of the battle for me with all of this is emotional state of control, and being more subtle instead of overly dominant.”

    Amen Cave, me too. I let myself get out of joint over the shit test. I read SJF and Cave’s comments on Sunday then disengaged for a bit. Was good.

    What I let sink in for a bit:

    1. Have more patience with myself, an entire lifetime of blue pill doesn’t dissolve overnight.
    2. Control my emotions better.
    3. Acknowledge that yeah, maybe I am at Stage #4 of unplugging, the depression crap. It comes and goes, mostly goes but let myself get stupid now and then.
    4. Work more at filling my mental space with ME and what I like, don’t get let so much energy and thought be depleted thinking about a woman.
    5. Keep working MY path and towards my goals because they are damn good ones.

    @SJF wrote:
    “I’m advocating for a man to figure out his own script after a fully informed red pill awareness and I heartily advocate for Always Defaulting to Game.”

    I like that a lot, seems to be what Rollo writes about frequently too. I think that script should always change as the awareness becomes daily practice. Then when it all comes naturally the script will change again and so forth, always evolving.

    Unrelated I am reluctant to toss this link into this otherwise very awesome thread, but thought some of you might find it of interest given the discussion from a few weeks ago on Cassie Jaye and The Red Pill documentary she is putting together on the men’s rights movement:

    http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/red-pill-mens-rights-documentary/

    And finally, if any feminist wants to criticize me for my 5 points listed above or dedication to self-improvement they can kindly go fuck themselves. Yes, pull out your vibrator that more than likely a man engineered for your self-pleasure and just go fuck yourself. If you’re into organics use a banana.

  78. @ YaReally

    “This is relevant to Softek’s situation with the Ultimatum and LSNFTE, as he is now he’s triggering her Hypergamy/Dread (though he can soften that very slightly as I described), but if he caves to the Ultimatum and becomes exclusively monogamous, he’s showing her he needs her and after a couple months of New Relationship Energy fun times, her Hypergamy says “hmmm, that’s not the high-value guy I used to like” and she starts looking at branches.”

    No lie. The other night while we were fucking, she said pretty seductively, “You don’t need me,” and then started going even harder than she was already.

    More than once she’s said “I hate you, you’re breaking my heart, you don’t need me, you’re fucking me up, I hate this, you don’t want me like I want you,” etc.

    The other night she got upset and said something like, “This is wrong. This is in reverse. I shouldn’t be chasing your dick. I don’t understand what’s going on. This isn’t right. I’ve never experienced this before.”

    And it’s still been going strong. A lot of times actually, like the other night, she’ll SMILE after saying “I hate you,” and laugh and smile after saying I’m an asshole, or grab my face and make out with me after telling me “I hate this” or something about how I’m fucking her up.

    It’s been pretty awesome but it’s been a MAJOR headfuck / wakeup call to me to experience all this and realize how true TRP is. Second unplugging.

    This all started when she cheated on her BF with me too. That in and of itself was a huge wakeup call to see how she reacted to his texts — writing him off, wishing he’d shut the fuck up, completely acting like he never existed and was just an inconvenience now. And then fucking me not too long after ignoring messages he sent like “I love you baby” and “you’re so beautiful,” etc.

    It’s a LOT to process. I was just complaining about being a virgin not even a few months ago and thinking I was completely fucked, and not in the good way.

    Complete flipside now. I’ve been learning a lot. The sex has been off the hook like I never could’ve imagined too. I’ve gotten WAY more vocal and am not shy at all about being aggressive or telling her what to do. It’s fucking nuts. Like way beyond anything I thought I’d ever do. And it all feels completely natural, which is the best part. Like a part of me has been set free.

    Got threats from the ex BF and had to deal with that, and also jealousy from other betas that like this girl I’ve been seeing. They all hate me and are talking shit about me.

    TBH it feels pretty good. Mostly that for the first time in my life I’m dealing with pretty harsh criticism and I give less than a fuck about it. Business has been building up too and my reputation is improving and I’m getting more work. Good deal.

    Thanks for all the advice too, holy shit. Never fail to deliver. Big part of how I got this far was by checking out your archive on and your comments here.

    It’s true when they say you gotta stay on your toes. Have to balance having fun with being serious and staying on top of your game. After a while they probably mesh into being one and the same.

  79. Also, all I’ve been doing is having sex with a girl I wanted to have sex with, and on my terms.

    I tried talking about Game to a friend of mine and he wrote it off as manipulative, evil, etc.

    If there’s one thing I’d want guys to get, it’s how Game benefits women as much as it benefits men. Sex and relationships are a two way street, and it’s been great.

    Like YaReally said: I have to realize that she is happy NOW with things the way they are. Men have to ‘just get it’ not only for themselves and to stabilize their relationships with women, but for women’s pleasure too — they don’t even know how their brains work. It’s up to men to ‘get it’ and know what buttons to push.

    She was telling me the other day she’d tried to tell former lovers she had what to do. Like to grab her ass harder, spank her, etc. All these things that I just did to her without asking her, which she loved. She said all those other experiences had been a turn off and awkward, etc. because it ruins it when you have to tell a guy what to do and how to act.

    The dominance/assertiveness thing absolutely comes into play sexually as much as it does in relationship dynamics in general. But yeah, the response has been crazy.

    If I wasn’t RP aware I’d have NO IDEA what to make of her saying “I hate you” and “you’re fucking me up” and all that stuff. It’s still making my head spin a little bit, being new to this and seeing the dominoes fall over just like YaReally and other guys here said they would. Definitely a ‘wtf, is this really happening?’ moment.

    But knowing where it’s coming from helps a lot. And takes away from the shock of it. I don’t think I’d be able to handle it otherwise. But before I even got into this I had at least some vague idea about all this. If anything it was an indication to me that things were going how they should.

    Blue Pill mindset would be freaking out and think something was horribly wrong. Ass backwards, lol.

  80. @Yareally
    Hey man, I have been reading your archive since the past 2 months and it has helped me a lot. Thanks for spending all this time helping people on here and Heatiste. I always thought PUA (specially Mystery Method and RSD) was complete crap. But after reading your archive I think its important to read those materials along with the Redpill concepts.

    Can you tell me what to read for day game? I am working on my career and I need to wake up early in the morning for my job so I can’t be out late at nights. Plus I am low energy guy.

  81. @Blaximus
    “After a while, guys like Roosh don’t really even know what it is that they want, because going through the motions for so long, without understanding what was truly happening in their heads, has caused a confusion that even settling down will never ” cure “. You give Roosh what you and I have and ultimately he still won’t be satisfied. He may be irreversibly broken.”

    Roosh’s problem isn’t that he hasn’t met “the right girl”, it’s like you say, he doesn’t even know what he wants. Part of why PUA stresses building cold approach skills so much is that yes you can go to a foreign country and just bang whatever sits beside you, and yes you can bang girls in your social circle WAY easier than cold approaching strangers…but when you go those routes you don’t really have CHOICE. You can only choose from convenient girls who happen to have easy logistics or do a lot of the work for you and you’re limiting your choice significantly…so you can end up in situations where you bang a dozen girls but none of them were really your “type” and you’re still frustrated thinking about the 9 you didn’t approach that one night 2 months ago who was giving you eyes but was in a mixed set so you stuck with the “okay” girl that was already talking to you because you didn’t develop the skillset to use that girl as a pivot to enter that mixed set, run proper group theory, and have a shot at getting that 9 that you wanted.

    It’s like how a lot of Natural players that hate the girls they fuck are usually the ones who just fuck anything convenient because they just want to get laid (whether it’s high sex drive or ego investment). Part of why I skip around with a smile on my face is that while ya there are girls here and there that I’m like “wow this bitch is crazy”, most of the girls I get I screen VERY HEAVILY for very specific traits that I like and expect from women. Some are personality traits like a bubbly optimistic personality VS the jaded bitter cynical type (aka young fun chicks instead of old cranky 28+yo’s lol), and some are physical traits like a girl who does her makeup, takes care of her nails, dresses sexy etc instead of frumping around like a mess spouting “if you don’t appreciate me at my worst–” nonsense.

    So while a Natural will probably get laid more than me, the girls in my life are pretty much all girls where I’m like “I ENJOY being around this chick, and I WANT to have her over again, and I legitimately wish her the best if we aren’t together because I’ve screened for a reasonably good person in general”. But I’m able to find those girls because I studied actual oldschool PUA tactics that taught me to screen for those girls and pull them out of bigger sets and approach them ice cold with no Approach Invites and turn around girls who give me shit-tests instead of Next’ing them if they give me any minor tests etc.

    I don’t think pickup has ever really made Roosh happy, because realistically while he’s got some moves to approach solo girls in Europe and everything, he’s really never had much more control over the girls he ends up with than the average guy who’s chasing social circle girls.

    But now he’s made himself into a cult leader where he has to stick to his methods because he views himself as the father of TRP instead of as a student, and now he’s hoping that 1) he’ll randomly hit the jackpot and one of these girls will just happen to be a unicorn but he doesn’t have the skills to really hunt for them so they’re all just going to disappoint and frustrate him, and 2) if he brings back a traditional gender roles those girls he’s getting that aren’t what he wants will become what he wants by forcing the square peg into the round hole.

    He’s in for a lot more frustration. There are tons of guys like this out there. It’s a big part of why a lot of Naturals settle with fucked up damaged chicks…they get tired of all the chaos of taking the convenient girls and all the drama and shit that goes along with that and they find one that’s just slightly better than the others and think “oh man, finally a unicorn, I’m going to settle down into that traditional relationship/marriage thing and we’ll live happily ever after with 2.5 kids and the white pickett fence as she holds my hand on my deathbed”. Then that girl turns out to be fucked up and it’s not that she really changed, it’s that she was never properly screened in the first place because he didn’t really develop the skillset to properly screen them.

    It’s why pickup stresses having and enforcing boundaries and shit so much. It’s important…you should be ABLE to turn down sex from a girl that isn’t hitting the checkmarks on your “things I want in a woman” list. Even if you still fuck her and just keep her at arm’s length, you should still have developed that ability to be like “nope, you don’t get to be a deeper part of my life”, and ideally also develop the skills to meet more women in more situations so that you have more options to screen.

    @Geek Freak
    “I have to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your advice.

    “I was raised to believe that red-pillers were people who just spouted politically-incorrect bullshit and that their theory of everything involved the mentality of being misogynistic pigs.”

    See Rollo’s new article about the Purple Pill. 😉 Society doesn’t want you to look at the TRP because it makes so much fucking sense when you DO…so they shun it and hate on it so that guys like you go “I would never read those misogynistic assholes’ ideas!” and never look into it for yourself and go “wow this explains so much of my life experiences holy shit”. They want to keep you in the dark because if you’re in the dark and just do as you’re told you’ll provide for a wife (who doesn’t put out, while you’re miserable and possibly end up divorced paying alimony and child support) and kids (who don’t respect you because you’re a full Blue Pill pushover chode who can’t even handle your own wife let alone the household) and work that job that you have too many responsibilities in taking care of that family to quit for something that makes you happier or to just bail on the whole situation etc etc You may end up offing yourself, but society earns a woman who’s taken care of and a couple of kids who will grow up to do the same thing you and your wife did and keep society going.

    “After reading tons of your stuff, it hit me like a ton of bricks.”

    The reason TRP/PUA/etc holds up is that it’s not theory. It’s like telling someone “water is wet” when they’ve been told it’s dry their whole lives but they can’t figure out why whenever they’re splashed with this dry water their clothes feel wet. Then assholes like me come along and go “dude, it’s beacuse water is fucking WET, duh” and the guy is like “holy SHIT, that makes WAY more sense” lol That’s why they can’t DEBATE us, they have to cover it up and get guys like you to not even LOOK at it because you start looking at it, it starts making sense, and then you’re down the rabbithole.

    That’s why I say when TRP guys go on news interviews and Dr Oz (lol) and shit, the goal isn’t to convince the person they’re debating, that person and the hosts and mainstream Blue Pill audience etc don’t WANT to be corrected, they don’t WANT their view of reality challenged. Nothing you say will convince them. But the audience in those situations is the unsatisfied husband passing by the couch his fat wife is sitting on watching the interview and hating on him, while he silently nods his head at the points the guy is making and goes and types in “what is the red pill” in Google and starts his journey.

    “I cannot yet accept the new reality that has opened up before me. I almost refuse to believe it. I hope that through venturing and moving on step-by-step that I can finally break this invisible plateau that has concerned me and my life for the past 2-3 years and finally accept it so as to improve.”

    It’ll take a while. It’s a long process. You have an entire lifetime of literally EVERYONE and EVERYTHING around you feeding you shitty data and setting up bad wiring in your head…and you’ll want to hold onto it because it’s FAMILIAR, even if it’s not in your best interests or doesn’t hold up, it’s the only thing you’ve known so your brain will hold a death grip on a lot of that shit until it gets flat out unavoidable proof of these concepts. Like how Softek is having his mindblown by this chick reacting exactly the way we told him she would, and we know she’ll react that way because we’ve all gone through that shit and dealt with girls like that or have compared notes from other guys who’ve dealt with that shit and what he’s going through is fully explainable but he may not have accepted it fully until he experienced it first-hand.

    This is why we make guys go out and socialize and go chat up girls in the bar and shit…the field will shove this all in your face and make it undeniable. Sitting in your armchair waxing philosophical will only get you so far…your brain needs to SEE this shit. But once you DO see “the matrix”, the sense of control you start to gain over the world around you is amazing. Blue Pill conditioning will make you feel like a leaf floating in the wind bouncing around from unexplainable situation to “don’t talk about that” situation to “you’re a misogynist if you think that” situation while all you want is some consistent fucking answers so you can figure out wtf to do with your life. The Red Pill is clarity.

    And happy to have helped, you and the other lurkers etc are the guys I write for.

    @Blaximus
    “I love my wife and plan to be with her until death do us part. I am not, however, under any illusions that she is in any way ” the one ” or a ” soul-mate “. It is possible ( but unlikely ) that I could go home tonight and find all of my belongings on the lawn and the locks changed Lol… I would be bummed, but not destroyed. I’m with her, and she with me, by choice. Nothing special or magical involved. We do pretty good together.”

    I think this is the only healthy way to approach long-term relationships in 2015. If I decide to settle down someday, it will be with the full acceptance that she can leave at any time, just like I accept with my fuckbuddies etc. Just understanding that and not banking my entire life around the idea that a ring on her finger will make her magically love and appreciate me (and suck my dick) forever will give me a huge leg up over most guys I figure lol

    @SJF
    That was a great story. But just the first half lol I can’t relate to the second half, I can’t get my dick hard for a wrinkled sagging raisin lol I GET it, like for some guys it’s all “those wrinkly sagging tits fed my baby and that somehow gives me an erection” but I’m a visual guy, I grew up in the Internet Porn era, I need visuals. I could respect, love, admire, and even provide for and take care of, an old wrinkled wife that raised my kids and earned all her wrinkles and scars and missing teeth and shit, but my dick needs sexy bitches lol That’s why I think a pLTR, if we can figure out a way to have and raise kids in one, is ideal…your baby mama gets the benefit of being your Primary so even when she gets wrinkly and old you still care about her and provide for her and appreciate her for her role in your life, buuuuut you still have some hot young Secondary poon on the side to bone so your dick is happy. She gets a guy who keeps his game up so he stays attractive (and she’s probably too old to want sex anymore anyway) and you get a solid baby mama who knows she doesn’t have to worry about being tossed aside for some Secondary poon because she earned your loyalty.

    That’s the way I think things will head at least, if we can get enough guys experimenting with pLTRs and comparing notes.

    My point is though that I don’t buy into the flowery “the longer you’re together the better the sex is” notion. And it’s not that I haven’t had good sex, I’ve had fucking incredible sex with crazy sexual chemistry etc over the years lol And I’ve had LTR sex, and to me LTR sex gets boring and her SMV just starts going down and I want better for my dick. Lena Dunham could raise my kids and build us all a house and shed a bunch of tears over me but it still won’t make my dick hard for this:

    http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article5763006.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/MAIN-Lena-Dunham.jpg

    And I don’t think that in general guys should be shamed or condescended to for feeling the same way lol Maybe shit was different in the pre-porn age, but right now guys are growing up looking at hundreds of thousands of different porn chicks over their lifetime, and Game is giving them the skillset to GET a variety of girls, and girls are swiping left and right on Tinder riding the carousel and not even WANTING commitment these days, so I think more and more men are going to end up like me where they WANT and ENJOY that variety over some chick from their little 300 person village who plows the corn fields with them and earns their boner with their weathered old hands lol The world is changing, men and women, this is the ADD Tinder swipe right culture of 2015, we have to adapt to it and give men a modern model of how to deal with the mindsets this culture is building in everyone instead of clinging to ideals from an era long gone.

    I’m of the belief that viagra was made for men to fuck their aging wives lol I’d bet most of those guys can spank it just fine on their own to porn of hot girls. I’m heading out to a nightclub full of hot college girls tomorrow night, last time I was there I was making out with a bunch of them, I can’t IMAGINE a scenario where my dick doesn’t get hard for that. But most guys my age are with an aging possibly older woman, who’s sex drive is dying, they’re legally tied to her so they can’t upgrade, they have no game skills even if they DID have the chance to upgrade, and they stop going out to bars full of hot young girls and instead go to shitty bro-pubs full of dudes and old men and their social circles of dudes and ugly girls, till they finally move out to the suburbs away from the nightlife and busy city streets full of hot girls to start a family where they just coop up in the house watching Netflix with their wife and taking care of the kids and their wife hopefully stays hot if they have a cool job like promoting liquor in Vegas around hot girls, but more likely he’s a plumber or accountant and his wife feels no dread and lets herself go and stops putting in effort when they DO occasionally have sex and he fucking hates his life and wonders how he ended up in this situation in his mid 30s when all of a sudden his SMV seems to have gone up and hot young girls at work are flirting with him now and he’s frustrated as he looks down as his wife’s old vagina she’s “allowed” him to stick his dick in tonight as she rolls her eyes and flips through her phone texts, and FOR SOME REASON he can’t get his dick hard.

    I don’t actually know anything about the medical shit behind ED, but I have a pretty good feeling that most guys who suffer from it would find their dick works just fine if a busload of hot young cheerleaders pulled up begging to suck their dick. 😛

    @Softek
    Congrats, glad it’s working out. Remember to look at what she DOES not what she SAYS. It’s OKAY for her to feel upset. She pays money to go watch movies or watch soap operas where she voluntarily gets upset. It’s GOOD for her to experience a full range of emotions because the most she feels with most guys is a flat fucking dialtone. The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. Like Patrice O’Neil says “My girl HATES that she loves me. HATES it. She wishes she DIDN’T love me, but she DOES. She LOVES me and I LIKE her.” lol Dude is a genius, YouTube his shit on women.

    “The other night she got upset and said something like, “This is wrong. This is in reverse. I shouldn’t be chasing your dick. I don’t understand what’s going on. This isn’t right. I’ve never experienced this before.””

    1) She LOVES that frustration, you’re the Rubick’s Cube she can’t solve and as soon as she solves you she starts to get bored (once the NRE wears off), and 2) this feeling you give her that NO OTHER MAN has ever given her is the feeling that makes her think about you if she goes on dates with other guys during a freezeout initiated by you. You can’t do a freezeout from a state of low value to her, but if you do it when you’re high value to her, it’s very rare that she won’t come back begging to be let back into your world. That’s why Soft Nexts are so powerful, you’re not scolding her or hating on her or starting a fight, you just become completely indifferent to her and remove your attention and the experience of being in your world from her (and demonstrate that you don’t NEED her, that she’s lucky you LET her be in your world). It’s WAY more powerful than any silly discussion or debate that Blue Pill thinking would have you attempt.

    “This all started when she cheated on her BF with me too. That in and of itself was a huge wakeup call to see how she reacted to his texts — writing him off, wishing he’d shut the fuck up, completely acting like he never existed and was just an inconvenience now. And then fucking me not too long after ignoring messages he sent like “I love you baby” and “you’re so beautiful,” etc. ”

    It’s important to remember that she will do THE EXACT SAME THING to YOU, if you behave like him. A lot of guys in your position think “but I got her ’cause I’m such a badass, I’m not some chode like THAT guy so she will never view ME as some inconvenience and make fun of my txts to other men etc”, and she WON’T, as long as you stay ATTRACTIVE to her and trigger her Hypergamy like you are. But if you let your frame collapse into hers and start falling into scarcity and neediness etc, she will treat you EXACTLY how she treated him. 100% dead on exactly the same with just as much contempt and disgust, EVEN AFTER 10 YEARS TOGETHER. Because Hypergamy doesn’t care.

    “The sex has been off the hook like I never could’ve imagined too. I’ve gotten WAY more vocal and am not shy at all about being aggressive or telling her what to do. It’s fucking nuts. Like way beyond anything I thought I’d ever do. And it all feels completely natural, which is the best part. Like a part of me has been set free.”

    lol part of why I like pickup is that I’m having the sex I watched in porn as a late-blooming early-20s virgin. 😀 Like you watch porn and it’s like “okay that’s some crazy shit that porn chicks do but that’s not what you’d do with like, Sally the cute receptionist at work”. But when you learn game and you start pushing those boundaries more, you end up being able to have all kinds of sex that you thought was just porn stuff and on top of it the girls LOVE it, it’s not just “oh they had to be paid to do that shit you watched”, they’re relieved some guy came along who could congruently and non-judgementally allow her to be their little porn slut that none of her friends or family or ex-BFs realize she is.

    “Got threats from the ex BF and had to deal with that, and also jealousy from other betas that like this girl I’ve been seeing. They all hate me and are talking shit about me.”

    https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bbe2106133e5d887f7f491cab273e278?convert_to_webp=true

    Get used to it lol It’s not a big deal, they’ll always be there, it means you’re with a hot girl it’s a fuckin compliment. The lion doesn’t care about hyenas and jackals nipping at his tail. They will ALWAYS talk shit and ALWAYS try to take her from you. Just be unreactive. Whoever reacts more is lower value. I make fun of guys all the time to my girls…”awww I think he has a crush on you, that’s cute lol You should fuck him, he’s probably got a HUGE dick” etc etc

    “Thanks for all the advice too, holy shit. Never fail to deliver. Big part of how I got this far was by checking out your archive on and your comments here.”

    Happy to help, little success stories like this are why I do it. I went through all these same revelations and I know how much impact they had on my life so if I can help other guys have them, that’s worth spending my hobby time writing.

    “After a while they probably mesh into being one and the same.”

    Yup. 🙂

    “Also, all I’ve been doing is having sex with a girl I wanted to have sex with, and on my terms.”

    That’s literally all it is. And even more fucked up is that society shames that, but we all accept that girls get to “have sex with the men they want to have sex with, and on the girl’s terms”. Like we’re TOTALLY OKAY with that, but when a man wants to do it it’s ohhh he’s an asshole oh he’s selfish oh what a player what an abusive controller.

    No, you just have standards for yourself now. You expect a girl to appreciate being with you and to make an effort to fuck you the way you want when it’s convenient for you without giving you drama. You’re not CONTROLLING her…she is 100% free to walk away at ANY time and you’ll wish her the best if she does. All you’re doing is laying down lines in the sand for the first time and saying “if you cross these lines, you don’t get to be a part of my life…if you don’t cross these lines you can be a part of my life. It’s up to YOU whether you want to cross those lines or not…I’d love if you didn’t cross them because I think you’re a fun girl and I like our chemistry and what we have together, but you’re free to do as you like, if what I’m offering isn’t enough for you I totally understand but I’m not changing what I’m offering so the choice is up to you.” It’s the opposite of controlling or manipulation lol

    “Like YaReally said: I have to realize that she is happy NOW with things the way they are.”

    Yup. If you fell into her frame and did a monoLTR to her Ultimatum (also notice how at FIRST the Ultimatum seemed SUPER SERIOUS, but NOW she JOKES about it because she doesn’t REALLY care as long as she feels like she won’t be easily replaced etc), she would be ecstatic for a couple months, so would you, but then she would start to view you like she viewed her ex and do the same thing she did to him and start a downward spiral into being miserable because by the end of it she wouldn’t have you in her life anymore and her life would be significantly less awesome because you are no longer in it…as it IS, sure she doesn’t get the mono commitment she doesn’t even REALLY care about, but she gets to be a part of the world of a guy she views as high-value who can teach and guide her and open up new shit for her and fuck her like she needs to be fucked etc etc. Her life is significantly improved by you allowing her to be around you. Never forget that even if society tries to convince you it’s the other way around.

    “She was telling me the other day she’d tried to tell former lovers she had what to do. Like to grab her ass harder, spank her, etc. All these things that I just did to her without asking her, which she loved. She said all those other experiences had been a turn off and awkward, etc. because it ruins it when you have to tell a guy what to do and how to act.”

    lol other guys are shit in bed. Part of my confidence comes from knowing that lol

    @day-gamer
    Happy to help. It bugs me that people don’t read the oldschool literature, it’s all laid out there for everyone to see, Mystery and oldschool Tyler fucking NAILED this shit to the wall if you can look past the fuzzy hat lol

    “Can you tell me what to read for day game? I am working on my career and I need to wake up early in the morning for my job so I can’t be out late at nights. Plus I am low energy guy.”

    People have said Krauser’s Daygame Mastery is a good resource, and that Roosh’s Day Bang is good too, but I don’t know I haven’t read them myself lol I’ve given those guys some shit before, but a quality learning resource is a quality learning resource to at least get you going. RSDTodd has a lot of free daygame vids on YouTube, I haven’t seen his actual Daygame product yet and he’s kind of dry to listen to but the actual content he’s explaining is rock solid

    Also good on you for trying to find a way to go chat up girls despite having career goals. I’m doing a tricky balance between career and girls myself right now lol

    @olivermaerk
    “Someone will always control the dynamics of social groups”

    Yup, the strongest frame always wins. Always. One on one or in groups, one person is ALWAYS reacting to the other. Be the guy that sets the frame. Be the cause, not the effect and make other people react to you and observe you instead of being the guy who reacts and observes.

  82. Field Report: Date with age appropriate, hard bodied, former hottie last night. Lol – what was I thinking? A few highlights…

    – She lied about only being married once. She was married/divorced twice.
    – While she didn’t bring her phone in, she did whip an iPad out of her bag so she could show me the glamor pix she’d had taken and posted on Facebook
    – She randomly would just start talking about being beautiful, appropo of nothing. What it was like in high school or what it was like being the “trophy wife” of the doc, hubby number 2. There was no sequence to the conversation when she led it, it was just a stream of feelz
    – She’s a fucking moron
    – She lied about being into hiking and the outdoors. I asked her where she liked to hike etc and she doesn’t know the area at all.

    She’s mastered the ability to seem nice and works the “I’m not like those other awful women” game, lol. All while she regaled me with tales of how she sued a lawyer boyfriend for “hitting” her – apparently she was waving her hands around at him and he swatted her hand away. This constituted abuse and he was a monster. She had no idea how she came across.

    She’s the hottest 52 yr old I’ve ever met, but in line with what was expressed above, she became uglier as the night wore on. I just kept asking her questions and her truth came out. She wasn’t even really aware that she had already lied to me about important things, and I’m sure she told me more last night.

    She’s kind of sad actually. She’s a case study in what an identity based on beauty and sex appeal leads to for a woman. She’s got nothing else. She’s a gold-digging whore.

    Funnily, it wasn’t unpleasant. She was doing her best to be pleasing and sweet. She’s not a loudmouth and she wasn’t crass, she was just so shallow. So transparent. So pathetic.

    The important lesson for me out of this is that I would consider an LTR with a high quality woman. I didn’t really know that was still in me. I did monogamy when I was younger, I didn’t really have a hard time with it. I just haven’t found a woman worth it in so long that I assumed I didn’t want it anymore. It may lead nowhere but it’s good to know for some reason.

  83. Fantastic comments YaReally.

    For the record, I don’t disagree with a word you said in regards to my comments. Society has changed and a man has to adapt to thrive. I’m not an advocate for staying with a woman with old wrinkled tits for the sake of old school, first set of books values. My wife doesn’t look like Lena Dunham and she doesn’t have wrinkled tits or body this decade. Give her another ten years and she might. So far she has never failed to pass the boner test with me. I really never had a blue pill mindset (and don’t subscribe to it or purple pill currently) and that is why I could have held onto a relationship I value (even though I wasn’t aware of red pill,nor good game) , one that is based on complementarity. My sharpening of red pill awareness and game will allow that to be continued with mutual respect. And all of the knowledge of single man PUA definitely compliments a monogamous LTR. I have no doubt about that at all, my friend. Thank you for your “give-back” to the red pill community.

    I am an advocate for being discriminate and only choosing a high quality woman for a pLTR and not settling.

    And there is no reason for a guy like Softek to not take full advantage of what he has now and not fuck up the deal. To be the best man he can be and not have thoughts of blue pill capitulation while he advances his cause (whatever that may be).

    Softek’s narrative over the past year is truly engaging and advances the discussion wonderfully. All the best to you Softek.

  84. @SJF
    “For the record, I don’t disagree with a word you said in regards to my comments. Society has changed and a man has to adapt to thrive.”

    Ya I would LOVE if it was different. The old system WORKED (for the most part). Providers got fairly faithful wives and people raised decent kids and society respected men’s role etc etc. It’s not ideal or anything but like, it was functional compared to the shitshow out there right now.

    But I deal with reality that I see out there every week, and there is a societal shift where guys like the old guy in that story just can’t relate. Even like, I heart Rollo, and he’s going to see a ton of insights and stuff that other men don’t…but at the end of the day he’s not going to be a chubby dude taking a 21yo girl off a tall jacked AMOG at the bar disarming her friends to isolate her in the club to makeout and try to pull her into the bathroom in 2015. Like, he can’t experience that first-hand and back when he was doing that stuff it was a different era with different mindsets and different social influences. 2015 is like some Mad Max shit out there and you have to be out there doing this stuff and watching how hardcore girls flake these days and go on Day2’s with them and experience their 2015 socially conditioned mindsets as they willingly choose to nosedive into the wall alone and watch them juggling guys and watch how guys react and how sad and weak most guys frames are (the guy in the suit at the bar isn’t Don Draper anymore, he’s a huge feminized-by-society-ashamed-of-his-sexuality-scared-to-offend-women chode dressed up in a nice suit) when you put a hot girl in front of them and steamroll over their frame to pull her home etc etc

    All I do is report what’s out there in the field in 2015.

    I’m 100% certain that the old guy in that story (and Rollo and you) are happy as clams with your wives and legitimately are sexually attracted to them and I’m sure they’re great women and everything, but in 2015 I can’t fault like a 35-45+yo guy for not being happy fucking a wrinkling miserable aging wife who only settled with them because she hit the wall and the guy didn’t have other options and she rarely puts out and views it as a chore and says she’s not just a sexual person while she’s on Instagram talking to Chad Thundercock and he spends his nights looking up porn and visiting stripclubs wishing there had been some other path for him to take.

    Like, that guy is more and more common in 2015 and going to become even MORE common by 2025, even if he was rare in like, the 90s or even 2000. And THAT guy needs a better path than what society and guys stuck in old mindsets are providing him.

    “I am an advocate for being discriminate and only choosing a high quality woman for a pLTR and not settling.”

    At the end of the day that’s all I’m encouraging. Don’t get oneitis and get into an LTR until you’ve properly vetted the girl, but LEARN how to vet the girl and LEARN how to meet lots of girls TO vet, and learn your boundaries and how to enforce them, and learn how to juggle multiple girls in a pLTR and understand those dynamics so that if you DO decide to settle down it’s on your terms and your thirst for variety is satiated and she’s getting the things she needs from the relationship and everyone is fuckin happy lol

    “Softek’s narrative over the past year is truly engaging and advances the discussion wonderfully. All the best to you Softek.”

    Even just the difference between his first “asking for advice” post about the Ultimatum and his posts now are a 180 lol His first post he sounded like he was leaning toward possibly settling even though every impulse told him not to and trying to figure out a way to make that work and not lose her, and now he’s like “you hate me do you that’s cute lol now suck mah dick!” lol Always love seeing that difference in guys’ progress.

  85. ScribblerG,

    Props to you for your discriminatory powers in being able to see the wolf in sheep’s clothing. Unfortunately, life and society got to her and hardened her heart. You can see that she can never be free and open, trusting, connected to a man and loving. She does not have true feminine radiance and power.

    Good thing you are not disconnected from your deep masculine core of purpose and consciousness that connect you to a woman’s depth if searching for a LTR. Good thing you are not only seeing only skin deep, and letting yourself be attracted to the superficial display of a woman’s radiance, which disappears with the passing of youth.

    Young hotties don’t need the depth and radiance, older women must have those qualities to prove their worth.

    It’s also a testament to your own sense of self worth that you can get right to acceptance and say that funnily it wasn’t unpleasant. You didn’t get stuck in denial, anger bargaining, or depression over the time you took to explore what is out there. You went out there and engaged in an opportunity and learned from it.

    Here’s wishing you better luck next time. Thanks for the field report in advancing the narrative of red pill and game.

  86. @YaReally November 11th, 2015 at 9:01 am

    “All I do is report what’s out there in the field in 2015.”

    I once again endorse everything you said. Some of us got in before the lock. A what both of us are saying is complementary to the message of red pill and game, not contradictory.

  87. @Blaximus

    How well do you know your wife sexually? I mean really?

    I haven’t pooped on her yet. I still have room to grow.

    Better yet, how sexually attracted are you to her and why is it that way? What is it that’s ” boring ” about sex with 1 person in your eyes?

    Predictability

    Did you not have enough experiences prior to marriage?

    I had enough to know that I haven’t had enough.

    That can be a tough one, but if your wife is sexually available to you, and you have a case of the blahs over sex with her, it’s not her…it’s you.

    Um, okay. I guess I’ll take your word for it. Note to self, enjoy sex more.

    @SJF

    Thanks for trying to give context to your previous statements about your special wife. I just can’t relate to the story. So maybe you are lucky, or maybe the times are just different now. Or maybe @IAS is right and it’s a personality type thing… My wife is a sweetheart, she is a good Mom. She does what I expect of her, she submits to me but she does it because I expect it and I’m molding her. Maybe you guys didn’t have to train your women how to be good wives… I don’t know. The reality is she’s just a vagina. I don’t really blame her, that’s just how girls are raised these days with their egalitarian expectations. Add to that, her hair is going gray, and she has wrinkles around her eyes, and her previously spectacular gravity defying breasts have sunk. I’m still only 35 years old and I suddenly find myself looking five to ten years younger than her even though she’s younger than me. I guess most of it is because of the kids, but… it’s just tough when I repeatedly have hot young girls make eye contact with me and blush… It’s really like a fucking slap in the face to be honest. I just wasn’t making an informed decision when I got married.

    Anyway, that’s depressing to read. lol. Onward!

  88. @ Andy

    I’m lucky, but I’m also skilled (and have a fair degree of mastery at a lot of things–including happiness) and no doubt at all the times are just different now.

    I got slammed at work yesterday afternoon and had some other thoughts typed out yesterday on this hedonic treadmill thing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGFoAX2Rf6g

    I have always been good at pacing myself. Truth be told, honestly, I didn’t have a high N count before I married and have been monogamous for 27 years. I haven’t had spectacular sexcapades. But I live a full life and have a complement of “all other” dopamine inputs. My hedonic oscillator has traveled in a narrower band than most men aspire to and I’m OK with that. I’ve had a broad depth of experiences and I’ve had a lot of highs. I just don’t let them take my drive over and hijack it. I accept my hedonic treadmill in life and don’t deny, bargain, get angry or depressed about it. When have you ever heard me whine about the red pill?

    Forge the Sky said:

    1. Learn what you actually want.
    2. Learn to be present to the moment and consistently enjoy what it offers you; learn that everything is bounty.
    3. Don’t spike the hedonic treadmill too hard or too often. Pace your pleasures. Above all, don’t expect control over pleasures – kiss them as they go.

    That’s me. I have sublime experiences in everyday life.

    I certainly am not advocating jumping in a canoe with a “Robin Korth” that I just met and starting on a long journey without having had experiences with her and having gotten laid before hand. Being with and sticking with one’s “prime” meat that you met with a same day lay 27 years ago is quite another thing. Just like being pissed about missing a birdy putt in golf on the second hole and then not having the mindset to complete the round with a proper mindset and shoot lights out on the next 16 holes, you can appreciate your marriage, your wife and kids if you choose to. You can get pissed off on the third tee and fuck everything up on the next 16 holes if you want to.

    http://therationalmale.com/2014/07/15/separating-values/

    I lost where I cut this from yesterday on how to hack the hedonic treadmill of life.

    Tool #1 Variety. Variety is, as we all know, the spice of life. But it’s also a potent weapon against adaptation, because we don’t get “used to” positive events when our experiences are novel, or unexpected. When, on the other hand, a positive experience is repetitive—when you know exactly what to expect—you don’t get the same kick out of it.

    Positive changes that are experienced in a variety of ways are more likely to lead to lasting happiness. So you’ll be happier with your new spouse if you spend time doing new things together, rather than getting stuck in a boring routine. You’ll be happier at your job if you are able to tackle new tasks and challenges—if there is some day-to-day variety in what you do. You’ll be happier with your soaker tub if you run out and get yourself some new bubble bath, or try lighting candles (or maybe ask someone to join you in it.)

    The happiness you get from doing anything will fade if you do it the same way every day, so mix things up. Think about this before making a change because you believe it will make you happier— will you be able to experience whatever it is in a variety of ways? Because if the answer is no, don’t expect the happiness to last.

    Tool #2, appreciation, is in many ways the opposite of adaptation—it’s going out of your way to focus on something, rather than taking it for granted or letting it fade into the background. Appreciating can mean paying attention or noticing, but it is even more powerful when you take it further—when you savor something, delighting in its qualities and relishing how it makes you feel, or when you experience gratitude, a sense of being fortunate for being in your current circumstances compared to others, or compared to where you have been in the past. When we appreciate our positive experiences, when we turn our mind’s eye toward them again and again in joy and wonder, we don’t just make our happiness last—we kick it up a notch, too.

    Human beings spend a lot of time trying to figure out what will make them happy, but not nearly enough time trying to hang on to the happiness they already have. In a way, this is like focusing all your energy on making more money, without giving any thought to what you’ll do with the money you’ve already earned. The key to wealth, like the key to happiness, is to not only look for new opportunities, but to make the most of the ones you’ve been given.

    And @Andy

    Here is another thing I typed out mid-day yesterday while I was busy saving lives. I wouldn’t say the same in the flow of this conversation, but FWIW:

    Just so you know, this isn’t a competition. We’re just guys talking things out and trying to advance our understanding and game. We’re on the same team here. You wouldn’t pick me for your team in real life and I’m OK with that.

    You really shouldn’t use me as an example of anything because I am an outlier. And please overlook my inscrutable nature. It’s just me participating here because I don’t have it all worked out. And I’m not hoping for a completion in life.

    “I seem to remember someone telling me that I settled.”

    And how does that make you feel Andy? Does that make you pissed and want to discount other things I may type. Doesn’t that make you want to prove me wrong? Doesn’t that make you drill down on your own mission goals even farther. It would be nice to know what the fuck you want to be like 20 years from now. What’s going to make you happy.

    I’ve been there and done the things you’re starting out doing in your life–married, young kids, dynamic job, etc. And look how I turned out. (hint: you don’t see me whining, griping and moaning about my fate) And I’m not better than anyone else here. Don’t undermine your own team-mates assuming you are on board with red pill awareness and game practice. But write your own script.

  89. Update. Fyi, just to prove what YaReally is trying to say about how the ecology has changed, here’s an update on the HB9 26 yr old hottie I sprayed my pants over. I’ve recovered nicely and established a dominant frame, and a very sexual one. I saw her again live but it was in a group thing with people who know her BF so we kept it discreet. But that seems to have deepened the attraction. She’s been playing hard to get over email while I’ve been working her hard. She closed her last note to me with this:

    “Do you read these emails? I wonder how much of them you do. I read your’s of course. Pen pals are not so easy to find. You’re more than a pen pal though! Maybe I’ll be eating my words and fucking you soon. Maybe. ”

    She’s got a boyfriend. I’m twice her age. She has her choice of men. The only reason she’s interested in me is that I stimulate her emotionally and give her feels and act like a fucking man. In other words, these days, a young hottie with choices feels entitled to act on them on whim. The poor bastard she’s with? She mentioned earlier in the email that she might move away from where she bought land with him, she’s already planning her next hop. He probably loves her and thinks she’s “the one.”

    @Forge – Spot on commentary. We are pleasure seeking creatures. The book I recommended to SJF, The Biology of Desire goes deeply into the neurology of behavior and desire and pleasure and pleasure seeking, and there are so many overlaps with sex and women. We make sex so meaningful, but at the end of the day we are just scratching an itch. It’s just sex and they are just women.

  90. Starting it now Glenn! Hehe, it’s hard to get much reading in on the side with all the comments here these days. You bastards.

    Gotta go to work now. I fried some poor girl’s circuits yesterday cause it was funny and now I’ve gotta un-fry them for her husband’s sake. Sometimes game just happens, but I ain’t no happy home-breaker lol.

  91. @ SJF and Andy : You probably know better than I do about the alpha widow effect and the reverse effect, “making up for missing out”. We consider these two as possible consequences of hypergamy in women which often (always?) lead those women to an unhappy endgame.
    I think there are similar effects in play for Men, or at least for many Men, and maybe a good way to interpret it is through the hedonic treadmill theory.

    Rollo, even though he hadn’t reached the wisdom he has now, had enough to know his own hedonic treadmill when he got into his monogamous LTR with someone he judged (apparently correctly) as someone he could be happy being faithful too. He gets his variety even though he is monogamous.

    SJF apparently did a similar thing and attributes part of his success at reaching a happy endgame to his hedonic treadmill never having been spiked a lot.

    Andy apparently is not in that situation, or at least doesn’t currently think he is. Andy, if you are already getting the best from your wife and it isn’t enough for you to be happy, then I think you have own up to that.

    I’m frankly not sure where I stand in my monogamous LTR, given my minimum N=1 count and because I’m not good enough yet to get the best from my wife (her N=1 as well).
    What I’m getting now is not enough for me, what I can do about it is to improve myself and see if I either reach the kind of happy state SJF is at or if I have to own up to not being happy with the best I can get from my wife.

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