I added this video today to illustrate a point, watch it carefully and with a Red Pill Lens. In this post-sexual revolution 2017 there is a strong want for the fulfillment of what I call the Old Books socio-sexual model goals. I’ll be impressed if you can stomach even half of the boilerplate ‘Man Up’ message in this video, but watch it carefully because it illustrates the dichotomy of a social order that’s been founded on feminine-primacy for over six decades now.
On a side note, I think it should be recognized that even ostensibly conservative thought leaders often toe the line for the Feminine Imperative more effectively than the progressives they attempt to disparage. I’m not going to riff on this video as I think most of my readers will understand the subtext being communicated here, but it’s an interesting exposé of the old books expectation of “doing the right thing”. Granted, it’s the same message of shaming men for exactly what I covered in Are You Experienced? Only this time the shame for men comes from another man (we’re supposed to respect?) while he attempts to sell the same message that Sheryl Sandberg does in Open Hypergamy,… Be like Ward Cleaver (he’s a stud) and in time, nothing’s sexier.
When we consider that western cultures have consolidated on feminine social primacy, and a women’s-needs-first way of interpreting any social dynamic, things get a bit easier when you distill the intent down from a social scale to a personal scale. What’s being related in this video is the desire to socially, culturally, change the definition of what should be considered “sexy” by women in spite of all evolved arousal and attraction cues they’re subject to. The presumption this is based upon is that attraction is a social construct and therefor something that can be changed.
If a man does everything by the book, if he does everything right, if he accepts the responsibilities feminine-primacy expects of him, he can be considered an adult, and he can assume his chances of being considered ‘sexy’ by women and certainly his own wife. In so accepting this definition of his burden of performance women will appreciate the equity he accrues in the relationship by investing himself in it.
From a Red Pill perspective we see this for what it is, the old books social contract that is still being sold to a generation of men who increasingly are seeing it for the life-changing lie it is. However, I’ll have you note the final summation of the video where men are encouraged to see adulthood as getting married, becoming a father and working hard to buy a home. I could argue that there are no June Cleavers left in the world or that getting married is a high-risk, low yield gamble. I could argue that becoming a father only makes a man fall in line with the ridiculous or hated caricature popular culture has made of them. I won’t even start on the risks of the housing market.
For all of this, the desire is still a return to a social contract wherein men are conditioned to believe that they will be rewarded for doing everything right. That old school notion has become the Beta bait of the past 3 generations.
As I mentioned in the last installment of this series, most men who are ‘awakened while married’ want to apply their Red Pill awareness in such a way that they might achieve this idyllic state that the guy in this video assures us is possible if we’d all just Man Up. Most married Red Pill (MRP) men are looking to save their marriages. They see it as a key to getting a woman to appreciate his investment in her, in their kids, in his marriage, his dedication to ‘doing everything the right way’,
Much in the same way that single Red Pill guys will (initially) focus on Red Pill awareness and Game in order to eventually connect with their Dream Girls, so too does the MRP guy. The difference being that he’s convinced he’s already married to his dream girl and the only thing between him and that ideal life with her is finding the formula to achieve the life-plan this video elaborates.
As I said before, most married men’s first intent when they unplug isn’t to divorce their wives, hit the clubs and spin plates. His first thought is “how do I get her to come around to appreciating me?” or “How do I get back to the kind of sex we had (or I think we could)?” I think it’s important for men, both Red Pill singles and MRP to disabuse themselves of the Blue Pill goals they think might ever be achievable with Red Pill awareness. I say this because it put that awareness into the perception of it being a cure to their problems. While it may seem noble to a newly unplugged guy to want to use his new superpower of Red Pill awareness for good (not for evil) and valiantly use it to do the right thing for his wife, his desire to do so is still founded in a Blue Pill conditioning that’s taught him he’ll be appreciated for it.
It may be that his new Alpha impression on his wife isn’t something she will ever recognize or accept as ‘the real him’. And while this frustration plays out in his marriage, he also sees the positive responses from women outside his marriage – women unfamiliar with his Beta past – who readily respond to the Game he applies. That new positive reinforcement with outside women contends with his wife’s negative reinforcement inside his marriage.
The following quote was part of a comment from ollieoxenfree in last week’s thread:
Who sees you as a viable long term option and is eager to please (in fact has pleased on many occasions) but is aware you may never reciprocate in kind. Will he waste his best years coveting something he may never have? Wouldn’t it be better to entertain a slightly lesser, suitor and be their top priority?
If a wife can no longer give of herself, does she still see fit to demand the level of investment as when she did? Can a man still appreciate the tacit approval his wife offers him, in not questioning his whereabouts when he’s engaged in an extramarital affair. Does she show affection and support in other ways?
The truth is most women under the influence of the Feminine Imperative don’t support their partners, nor cultivate an understanding with them in regards to the limits of their sexual capacity.Men, for their part, like to think sexual intercourse with their partners, will always be available, given time and circumstance. The reality is, it isn’t.
Our biologies weren’t meant to tolerate these conditions. Especially with a woman who will constantly shit test you and emasculate you, in every conceivable way she can divine.A woman will invariably condemn you for your weakness, but expect understanding for hers.
Common Experiences
There is a school of thought about being Red Pill and married that believes that getting a wife (or LTR girlfriend) to accept the ‘new you’ as being impossible. Things may nominally improve due to Dread working, but your new Red Pill marriage will never be what you want it to be because you have improved, she hasn’t and she never wanted you this way in the first place.
I don’t accept this assessment in its entirety, however I do see where this sentiment comes from. Most men who are awakened while married are men who followed the same script as the men I illustrate in Betas in Waiting. These are the men who have ‘done everything right’ for the better part of their lives. They cultivated themselves to be the perfect providers that Sheryl Sandberg would have women believe will be waiting for them when their looks begin to fade and it’s time to cash out of the SMP. These are the men who believe their hard work and perseverance is finally paying off with a women who now find him irresistible because he represents their salvation in long term security and parental investment.
Most women entering their Epiphany Phase are expressly looking for a Beta to take care of them now that the Party Years are coming to an end for her. They’re (ostensibly) done with the Bad Boys (something they had to ‘grow out of’) and now want to do things ‘the right way’. This, of course, suits a Beta in Waiting just fine because his Blue Pill conditioning has prepared him by expecting him to ‘do things the right way’ and to believe any woman wanting to do the same must be a Quality Woman.
These men believe their ship has finally come in, but because of this these men are often the most difficult to unplug. They have the hardest time with Red Pill awareness because in accepting it they must also accept that what led up to their marriage to that Quality Woman was also a result of their Blue Pill conditioning. A lot of their ego is invested in Beta Game and Blue Pill convictions, but also a forced-convincing of themselves that they did everything right and were rewarded for it.
This is why it’s a bitter pill to swallow when that guy’s wife drip-feeds him sex, or he discovers her sexual best was reserved for another man in her past, or she tells him she loves him, but she’s not in love with him. Even in the face of outright disrespect or his Beta confirmations of failed shit tests, he’ll still refuse to acknowledge his state. Often it’s only prolonged sexlessness (and even this is rationalized for a long time) that motivates him to seek the answers of Red Pill awareness.
The Beta in Waiting never had Frame before or during his marriage. In fact, it was just that lack of Frame that made him marriage material for his wife. He was never “Alpha” for her, and in his equalist mindset he believed this was what set him apart and attractive then.
So going from this very strong Beta initial impression to an Alpha position of dominance can be all but impossible – particularly if his self-confirmed status was that of being a proud Beta.
There are other men who’ll report having had an Alpha status prior to their marriage, but they lost it somewhere along the way. They were the Alpha backsliders who possibly entered into the marriage with a dominant Frame, but this dissolved as his wife’s Frame or insecurities about him came to dominate their relationship. I think this is likely the scenario that provides the most believability when a man becomes awakened while married, because it is a return to a prior impression (or one his wife had hoped he’d find) and therefor more believable when he does.
The ‘tamed’ Alphas are also the guys with wives who’ll try to actively minimize his Red Pill transformation. Their wives are simultaneously aroused by this rekindling of his Alpha dominance and fearful that he will come to see her as the failed investment she likely is for him. That may or may not be the actual case for him, but for her it will prompt possessiveness, surveillance and a control over how he’s allowed to ‘appropriately’ express this dominance – which in turn disqualifies it.
In the last installment of this series I will outline some ways in which a Red Pill man might go about internalizing this transformation, how that might manifest itself in an authentic way, and also the pitfalls to be aware of that can stifle it.
HABD
true enough…lol… but THAT 44 yo still outclasses 90% of the current purple-haired SJW/feminist 22yo girls…lol…
No doubt… and she is still the alpha in her demo…
Vet your girl with vigilance if you are going to go long brodies…
http://roa.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/14/47/546b3c6d58cc1_-_dinobarn1-lg.jpg
@ Lee Lee “In this state of limbo, which woman perceives him correctly?” A woman is entitled to her own representation of reality. (Just ask her…) And women (and men) are wired to sometimes let their beliefs slip into what they would like to believe (or revert to old familiar in-grained models) instead of what the evidence suggests.The man’s burden of performance is to be authentic and change her perception of him if he truly has made a change. “A map is not the territory it represents, but, if correct, it has a similar structure to the territory, which accounts… Read more »
“Deida does posit that there are up to 10% of women have a masculine core essence . . .” I’ve never been able to see more than 5, even today. The rest may act like it, but they act like it as women act like it. I believe his estimate of the “neutral core” men, however, is out of date. On the flip side, the top 10% of masculine men are hardening up and the 20% may be expanding to 22. We’re getting a pronounced intra-sex dimorphism. Alpha may not be a demographic, but sexless drone is working on it.… Read more »
And if she can make that bitch “dead” within the context of the social hierarchy of the women’s circle, then she is more “alpha,” even though the younger one is hotter.
I agree with this in the crab basket [Cinderella Syndrome]… but once men are in the circle i think it changes things.
“In this state of limbo, which woman perceives him correctly?”
The one who measures value correctly.
(most can’t, which is why they so often defer to the herd to tell them what is valuable, aka “preselection”)
“And there is social hierarchy in the forest. The opinion of some trees matters more than that of others.” Someone should pass a noble law about that. And make sure the trees are all kept equal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnC88xBPkkc There is unrest in the forest There is trouble with the trees For the maples want more sunlight And the oaks ignore their pleas The trouble with the maples And they’re quite convinced they’re right They say the oaks are just too lofty And they grab up all the light But the oaks can’t help their feelings If they like the way they’re… Read more »
“… but once men are in the circle i think it changes things.”
Either you’re fucking her, or you’re her girlfriend.
There are no men in the women’s circle. Anything with a dick that somehow makes it into the women’s circle is either a woman or neuter. Gays and prepubescent boys basically.
Inside the women’s circle men are fetish items. Objects displayed for status.
“And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet,
Axe,
And saw”
Any tree that sticks up must be topped. The women’s circle is a brutally vicious place.
Men, of course, have their trials by fire and combat, but once the social hierarchy is established it can hold for a long time. Sometimes for the life of the participants.
Women’s social maneuvering is ceaseless.
Virgin Queens in cells talk to each other,after emerging from the cell she goes on a seek and destroy mission until only one virgin queen survives. 6 days later she will leave the hive to mate with ten or more drones in succession,these drones could be from any hive even feral. While the female workers vary genetically the drones are from unfertile eggs and are all twins. The march on washington thing is similar to a swarm,in that they gorge themselves to the point they can barely fly and keep the queen in the center for protection while looking for… Read more »
“Deida does posit that there are up to 10% of women have a masculine core essence . . .”
Known three professorial wives who cucked other men’s wives while the men were present. The cucking was made known, often flagrant, there was no secrecy. That was part of her dominance tactic, to the all the husbands’ losses.
See Suzy Favor Hamilton.
I’m not Wildman, never have used that name. I’ve been lurking and studying TRM since April 2015, but have never posted until now. Strange you would know exactly how to spell that name without anyone in this thread directly referencing it. @SJF: Appreciated your DPA story and reflections. For me, DPA women do turn me on, though they need a minimum HB6 base to go with that (and higher is better of course) @ Sentient: Re the pair of photos: The 44 year old version is much more of a turn on to me than the 22 year old version.… Read more »
Hypergamy doesn’t care.
“Known three professorial wives who cucked other men’s wives while the men were present. The cucking was made known, often flagrant, there was no secrecy. That was part of her dominance tactic, to the all the husbands’ losses.”
This is what I see as alpha female^she takes what she wants (if she can get it,some guys may not play)and the lesser female lets her get away with it.
“Out of curiosity, which photo/version is more of a turn on for other guys following the conversation? Anyone want to share their preference?”
The more nekid one,there is a good reason the older version is fully clothed.Now if I neede a rub board to wash my socks on the older version would do quite well,how long does it take for botox to wear off?
@Stuffin’ Box:
There’s a deeper layer of the game and I’m betting she didn’t want the men at all.
@play and dizzle play your friend is hopeless until this happens to him multiple times by different women.. at some point he’ll be open to answers. But looks like he might be getting way too late of a start. ..married for 20 years and most of my adult life.. But I did have a sufficient heyday before my marriage, with a 90% “bitch done me wrong” ratio. So I wasn’t that surprised at least by my wife’s turning on me.. the divorce rape was a shocker and is hell on earth, but the chick/knife/back thing was very familiar to me.… Read more »
EHIntellect – LOL In December 2012, after being confronted by a reporter from The Smoking Gun, Favor Hamilton admitted that she worked as an escort prostitute.[14][15][16][17] She had started with Haley Heston Private Collection in December 2011,[18] using the name “Kelly” (sometimes identified as “Kelly Lundy”).[19] The investigative report also noted the Hamilton household did not appear to be experiencing any financial difficulties. According to Favor Hamilton, her husband Mark knew about her prostitution[20] and repeatedly objected to it because of the strain it placed on their marriage and negative effects it could have on their daughter. Favor claims her… Read more »
http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/HT_FastGirl_Family022_MEM_150910_4x3_992.jpg
spot the Alpha
“We are slow learners most of us, especially when that learning really consists of abandoning what we’ve been taught is true about women.”
The innate true romanticicm is poison…
From OP: “A woman will invariably condemn you for your weakness, but expect understanding for hers.”
“Favor claims her decision to become a prostitute was made under the influence of her antidepressant medication, a misdiagnosis of her bipolar disorder, and an unfamiliarity with the mental illness.”
“I suspect those that can get it are better looking than those that lose it.”
And getting it proves it. There was a calculated reason it was done in public and not in the Secret Society.
And even though that was a important component of the man-euver, I’m betting it wasn’t the main objective.
@Sentient: I’m 70+, virile OMG.
Why this particular 44 year old’s photo? She presents as a High Quality Woman, sexy, together, DPA — my preference, rather than the earlier photo which presents as a bikini’d bimboish kid.
Others have different preferences, which makes the world go around!
This is the Favor money quote: “It wasn’t Suzy. I keep trying to emphasize that wasn’t me. It was the disease.”
Suzy is a virgin, pure as the driven snow. The disease is a filthy hooker.
” . . .the earlier photo which presents as a bikini’d bimboish kid.”
What do you think got that bimboish kid into that bikini, and from the bikini into a TV studio? You don’t just step off a curb into a puddle of Miss Florida.
Of note, favor was 42 when she began turning tricks. 42, the replacement wife demographic for thirsty married men.
“Why this particular 44 year old’s photo? She presents as a High Quality Woman, sexy, together, DPA — my preference, rather than the earlier photo which presents as a bikini’d bimboish kid.”
IDK, are these related?
You can force that not to be the case by insisting that the contributions are “different but equal”, but the reality is that the contributions are different in type, and one will tend to be the leader rather than the other one, at least if the contributions are being made as stated. @Nova, I wrote Mutiny to address my disagreement with Athol Kay’s captain/first mate concept. There is no first mate while a woman always has the universal option to mutiny or abandon the ship altogether. People like to think that it’s a man’s wise duty to consider his wife’s… Read more »
kfg Men are trees, and they think like trees. They stand alone and they think alone. Women are a forest. They do not think for themselves. They must consider the thoughts of all the other trees before they decide what they think, which must be in line with what the forest thinks. Huh. Good analogy. Reminds me of Tolkein’s Ents, Entwives and Huorns. Those books are good for young people to read but really are for adults. There are a lot of things to think about in them. Like the meeting of all moving Ents, the Entmoot, where the first… Read more »
I looked up a bio of the “bimbo’s” husband. “His” bio begins with:
“Sheldon Bream is the husband of beauty icon and a famous journalist . . .”
And that is the last we hear of him for the rest of “his” bio.
KFG
And even though that was a important component of the man-euver, I’m betting it wasn’t the main objective.
Come on… the string’s been pulled…
40 is also a prime time for divorce and cheating… strong hormonal pushes and coming extinction…
Marko
which version would you have preferred at 30?
The 44y.o. version will always have the presence of being more attainable (sexually available) than the 22 y.o. version. On a subconscious level men know that the 22 y.o. is far less necessitous than the 44 y.o., which is interesting because on some level of consciousness we acknowledge the relation between women’s age and necessity and then contrast that with what we have to offer in exchange for that sexuality. This all registers for men in a split second and is part of the same subroutine we run to assess women’s sexual fitness and availability with women. The 44 y.o.… Read more »
https://youtu.be/3HbGByORvv0?t=244
@3:40… too bad she lost that Panhandle accent along the way as well…
“Come on… the string’s been pulled…”
Yeah, but you know perfectly well where the fun is in pulling a string. I’m not above indulging.
She didn’t want the men, she wanted to ruin the men. She sullied them, made them dirty, destroyed their magical fetish properties. And yes, to prove that she could.
The men weren’t her target, their wives were.
This is life in the women’s circle when all the claws are out and no holds are barred. She must have really hated their guts for something, it would have been much, much kinder to just kill them.
It’s funny that the egalitarian automatically assumes “bimbo”…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxbJTfF4rZw
This is her at 1:33… she was competing during her second year of law school…
“… she was competing during her second year of law school…”
And it wasn’t her first rodeo. She was an old hand, having already competed for Miss America as Miss Virginia while working on her undergrad business degree.
Her husband must be an ass man.
“She must have really hated their guts for something, it would have been much, much kinder to just kill them.” All husbands were well providing BB, two were second husbands, two of these women had prior children. It was double-cucking…her husband and the wife’s husband, often both present during sex, forbidden to join. Thinking about it now with my RP eyes is even more f’d up. I knew it was manipulative then, found it infuriating a man would cede the field so, hubbys’ lives revolved around the women’s private and public accomplishments. Some beta behavior I can understand, but this…… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkvE9C3t06k
married him right out of Liberty… like a good girl…
If you are going to marry, marry em young…
This all registers for men in a split second and is part of the same subroutine we run to assess women’s sexual fitness and availability with women. The 44 y.o. will always be the subconscious preference because older women are easier to bang – it’s the path of least resistance and if she looks close to her 22 y.o. self that’s just icing on the cake. Now, that’s our hindbrains deduction, but our egos have to find ways to rationalize the ‘preference’ so we buy into the lie (that women tactically tell us) that older women are better in bed,… Read more »
@Rollo. Yes speaking from direct experience the 22 year old is harder to bang ergot solid game. For the 44 year old “hello” is a great opening line.
But from experience the 22 year wants an older guy to teach her. I hear this all the time. Then they shit test like crazy until they become annoying and a next is required.
But the 22 year old requires solid tight game which young guys lack and which an older guy who can slow it down…/understand how to maintain frame and parry shit tests will reap the rewards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbVVSwlFSs
OK last SB post… just one to show all the guys moaning about women having the upper hand in LTR etc. Seems like Mr. Bream is holding a strong frame.
Marko “I’m not Wildman, never have used that name. I’ve been lurking and studying TRM since April 2015, but have never posted until now.”
If that is true, you are his ideological doppelganger.
“Strange you would know exactly how to spell that name without anyone in this thread directly referencing it.”
Is this response intended for me? This is odd in the extreme.
If you aren’t Wildman how do you know whether I spelled the name correctly or not? It’s not exactly rocket surgery, the words “wild” and “man”.
@anon, that was my edit not Marko’s
Other than to raise kids, there is no point in marriage. Once the youngest is old enough to take it, I intend to #ditchthebitch. In the meantime, I learned to do whatever I want. Not because it saves my marriage, but because it saved me.
http://class1988.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_2376.jpg
Mr Bream’s 20th reunion… spot the Alpha.
The Old (woman) Set of Books Something struck me as I was reading Rollo’s post and considering Red Pill, Women’s age and Unplugging. Feminism teaches young women today to “have it all” and “date alpha bad boys”. Then later feminism teaches older women to settle for a stable beta man because “nothing is sexier”. I personally believe that the AGE of a woman at the time you marry her determines what initial relationship you have. As you can tell from the above talk of feminism the trend in the west is to marry later once all opportunities for Alpha Focks… Read more »
” . . . the 22 year wants an older guy to teach her.”
Which he can’t do if the very idea of holding that kind of frame gives him the hives for some reason.
Marko: You have said the secret word, over and over again and are probably the only one here who hasn’t figured out what it is yet, for some reason.
The word is “submission.”
You win the 44 year old prize.
It was double-cucking…her husband and the wife’s husband, often both present during sex, forbidden to join.
Maybe the guys got off on watching the sex (or they rationalized that with their hamsters?). This was sex with other guys in front of the two husbands, I take it, and not lesbian sex?
Anyway, my take on the swinger thing is that it’s pretty much almost always a terrible idea unless you are a silverback alpha.
Wala I don’t think there is too much difference between gaming 22 or 44… I mean a guy may think banging a 44YO is easier, using his dog logic [Rollo’s breakdown above]… but the 44YO cat knows it is just about the bang and can be very defensive on this. While a 22YO cat can more easily be swept along in the emotion and fantasy… Many guys say that sleeping with 22 YO’s is far easier than 30+. Blackdragon for instance has done intensive study on this and concludes that there is no way to consistently bed a 33+ with… Read more »
Blackdragon’s Parameters (which under 33 fit into with consistency) The Over-33 Technique Thread Several times over the past several years, I have put forth the following challenge: Please show me a specific, step-by-step system that follows these parameters: 1. A system that is repeatable and reliable for men over 35 to have sex with women over 33. 2. Sex must happen within 4 hours of face time grand total. These 4 hours can be spread over as many dates as you like, but should not go over 4 hours total (or close to it). 3. Staying up in the evening… Read more »
” Thin Man says that a hot 45 YO in NYC is a hot commodity and one of the hardest women to bed, due to the abundance of guys 45 to 65 that chase her, CEO’s, famous guys, big money etc.”
Truth right here^^^
@Ang Aamer: Intriguing hypothesis! If man was Beta at time of marriage, very little hope of being accepted later as Alpha. If man was Alpha at time of marriage, got Betaized, then later reclaims the Alpha, the wife might (might! after reptile brain resistance to change) be glad to get the Alpha she married back.
For those not going to the link, two possible systems came out of the discussion: Two Possible Examples For the first time ever, two posters, Thin Man and Khali, have actually provided some specifics on how they lay over-33 women regularly. Granted, both of them fully admit they are not following my parameters exactly. They admit that they often spend around $100 or more plus 4-8 hours of face time in order to get to sex, plus they have to put up with a lot of shit testing. Regardless, I think it would be fun to examine both of their… Read more »
The Thin Man’s Over 38 Seduction “Women in their 30s are very different in their relations with men than women in their 40s. This is just biology… The biological clock daddy hunter woman vs. the premenopausal “I just want to be me” woman;” they have very different imperatives… The other major variable is divorced women who have been there and done that vs. the never married women who’s inner Disney princess is still kind of intact. The below is for a single woman over 40+/- or or a divorced woman over 37+/-… I think an over 33 single, childless, woman… Read more »
This was sex with other guys in front of the two husbands, I take it, and not lesbian sex?
Straight lesbian.
@ Sentient In my mid 20’s I had a friend that was in her late 40’s. She was an ex ballerina of polish decent, tall blonde, ice blue eyes, and a pair of the most amazing legs I have ever witnessed on a woman. She lived alone in midtown, and always told me that whenever I came to the city, I should look her up and we could go out and do something fun. We never had sex or anything like that, we were actually friends despite the age difference. I was intensely fond of her though. She was an… Read more »
@Sentient that has not been my experience. But the 22 year old is more likely to continue banging you longer than the 44 year old because the age factor impacts decision making.
I’ve turned down 44 year olds and had to literally employ anti game….which doesn’t work because once attraction is sparked in a woman it’s hard to undo by pulling away.
@kfg Thanks, finally, for saying the word, “submission”. Yup, that is the issue of discussion. I said that word numerous times — I’m not the one who’s avoiding it — why were you so reticent to say it? Is female submission to the male a necessary element of a successful (happy, fulfilling, sexually satisfying) LTR, or even any intimate M/F relationship? I don’t think so, I don’t experience it so. I find that Manuel Smith’s respectful Assertiveness in an non-equalist M/F complementary frame works well. Others’ results may vary. But maybe most TRM guys do experience female submission as necessary,… Read more »
Straight lesbian.
I see. Well again I think the whole swinger thing is bad news in general, but I guess even in that context I can see the two guys who were being lez-cucked not being that interested in being in bed with the girls and each other at the same time. Still, it’s a cucking. I guess the guys have low self-esteem and probably also low SMV as well? Anyway, not a frame you want to find yourself in.
@ Wala Ime, young chicks- 20 to 25 or so, are easier for an older gentleman to game. That’s been my experience since I’ve become ” old “. Most of them have never witnessed real Game, and it can easily overwhelm them. Older chicks have a greater appreciation for tight Game. But that doesn’t make them pushovers. Young chicks don’t recognize that they are being gamed, older chicks often do recognize that they are being gamed, and if the game is on point, they engage and play along. In either case if a guy is trying to bang, tight game… Read more »
” Is female submission to the male a necessary element of a successful (happy, fulfilling, sexually satisfying) LTR, or even any intimate M/F relationship? ”
Yes
*drops mic*
“Straight lesbian.”
Yeeeeeeeah, I was a little slow in figuring out that’s what you were talking about. Need more coffee.
That’s a whole ‘nother level of deeper mindfuckery. I’m out – Homey don’t touch dat.
” But maybe most TRM guys do experience female submission as necessary, including our fine host. I agree that that frame works, if both M/F prefer it.” Both M/F do prefer it, the submission on her part. Thing is, she may not realize this on the surface. At the core 90% of females want to submit. There are particular qualifiers that their brains subconsciously ping off of that help determine whether that submission will take place. Some take harder pings than others. Some are not worth the effort to get them to do what they were meant to naturally do.… Read more »
Thanks for calling EhIntellect’s Submission Hotline. “Is female submission to the male a necessary element of a successful (happy, fulfilling, sexually satisfying) LTR, or even any intimate M/F relationship? ” Great question! Submission is essential to sustaining LTR intergender dynamics. Equalism in fact will undermine a healthy respect for the man’s contributions, desire then slakes. She must willingly pursue him, otherwise her again interest will wane. She must find satisfaction in her particular contributions and not assume a masculine role. Submission ProTip: Knot sure how to maximize bindings? When in a bind for bindings, one 6 foot scarf, bight around… Read more »
“People like to think that it’s a man’s wise duty to consider his wife’s input, and that’s all good and fine, but the fact remains that a man will own his failures and successes, while his wife will only own his successes at the end of the day.” Tomassi is way off base here. Wives will own his failures too, as well as sacrifice all for him,her youth,her beauty, her body… her sanity if she has his children. Of course female submission is an important element of marriage. Not to be redundant here, but that is taught in the bible… Read more »
Unquestioning Obedience.
I dig that shit.
Exhibit 1: ” . . . “submission”. Yup, that is the issue of discussion. I said that word numerous times — I’m not the one who’s avoiding it — . . .” Exhibit 2: “Is female submission to the male a necessary element of a successful (happy, fulfilling, sexually satisfying) LTR, or even any intimate M/F relationship? I don’t think so . . .” You have delurked to propose a relationship model that is “long term” and avoids invoking female submission. You have formulated your model from the top down on ideological grounds, rather than from the bottom up on… Read more »
“I dig that shit.”
LOL, I bet you do. But now flip the genders around, and men who are unquestioningly obedient will actually begin to scare us at worse, and sexually repulse us at best. An obedient man is a little boy and therefore not someone you can depend on.
The only thing a man has to obey is Himself.
Laws and stuff, that’s optional.
“The only thing a man has to obey is Himself.”
I guess that depends. What part of himself is he obeying? Many men will simply collapse in front of women and they are obeying themselves, so to speak, their instincts, their desires.
Wala
I’ve turned down 44 year olds and had to literally employ anti game….which doesn’t work because once attraction is sparked in a woman it’s hard to undo by pulling away.
Me too… but not hot ones.
Well, depends on how you define ” Man “. Men don’t collapse in front of anything, unless performing particular sexual acts.
A lawyer critter made an interesting comment at Vox Popoli today that is relevant to both No Men in the Women’s Circle and Female Submission to Men:
” . . . a disastrous. and peculiar verdict will almost certainly be rendered by an all female jury. That effect, however, can be prevented by including even one man in a jury’s number. Whatever it is that women jurors do to arrive at their bizarre conclusions, they will not do under the scrutiny of a man.”
HR meeting today. Thought agenda was to include my jackass OTJ RP behavior, how it might seem inappropriate. I thought my BP past was to bite me and how. Nope. The concern was I hadn’t paid ENOUGH attention to certain women, colleagues. No written reports, no formal concerns, vagueness. Apparently certain women staff want me to engage them…now using HR to force me to say “Hi.” The suggestion, “Make sure you say “hi” to all the nurses, remember their names and it’ll show you’re engaged with the team and their feelings.” Me: “You know me. The feelings fixer.” Heh. Double… Read more »
@LeeLee Your question appears to imply that the man, having “changed his ways”, is somehow not genuine, and that the woman with more experience of the man before his “changes” perceives his “true” nature. I would say the answer to your question is: “neither”. The man as a former Beta would have also been partially “inauthentic”, as much of his behaviour would have been mollified by the cunning pervasiveness of the FI. He probably felt like doing a whole bunch of Alpha-like things, but social brainwashing made him second guess himself not to. He may also have tried to be… Read more »
It just blows me away how some of these posts lay out the nitty-gritty details of marriage scenarios that I have lived through, yet I assumed that only I knew these perspectives. I mean, some of this shit, the psychological permutations, they are straight out of my life.
“The only thing a man has to obey is Himself.” “I guess that depends. What part of himself is he obeying? Many men will simply collapse in front of women and they are obeying themselves, so to speak, their instincts, their desires.” Good thought, except for the last eleven words. Those guys are not obeying their true Reconstructed selves or they are they haven’t completed The Reconstruction. If he’s not Reconstructed, then he is obeying the wrong part of himself. We are talking about willing submission aren’t we? Something she wants to do. A reading from TWSM, Chapter 34, according… Read more »
“Some of his behaviours do not sit well with him…”
IF RP behaviors, and he’s unsettled, he’s not all in.
“…the nitty-gritty details of marriage scenarios that I have lived through, yet I assumed that only I knew these perspectives. ”
Yeah, we’re walking around body-snatcher style, the FI daring us to stand from the defensive crouch and speak up.
“But if your woman has a feminine sexual essence, there will be times that she would like to pleasurably relax and let go of being in charge.”
Powerful stuff. A woman’s ability to be all in on her natural femininity, flights of fancy…and know the man is there to guide her down from the labile emotions pays off in spades for both. The more I promote my wife to be herself, however that is, she knowing that I’ll let her play in her emotions and recover safely is gold.
Woo-woo.
@robpaxton, a key part of getting out of the FI Matrix is turning off the “Oh, it’s just you! Nobody else has this problem!” gaslighting. You can see females posting that crap in this very thread.
No, dude, it’s not just you. Not even close. The FI just wants you to believe that.
“A woman’s ability to be all in on her natural femininity, flights of fancy…and know the man is there to guide her down from the labile emotions pays off in spades for both.” You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way. –Roissy’s IX’th. With a red pill lens: This means you are doing her a favor by The Reconstruction, when done with Mastery. A fact that often goes overlooked by learned Game critics. Even the mighty PUA’s are doing… Read more »
Rollo, if I couldn’t decipher the ‘sexiest man alive’ video, on my own, at this stage. Then I would urge you to put the barrel of the gun to my temple and squeeze. And think no more of it. After all, it was an act of kindness.
@EhIntellect Thinking about it now with my RP eyes is even more f’d up. I knew it was manipulative then, found it infuriating a man would cede the field so you’re not the only one…lol… those wives didn’t like it any better than you did… Straight lesbian. i thought that’s what you were saying…lol… = straight up shit tests (by both wives) against both husbands ‘ever-weakening’ (and increasingly repulsive to the girls) frames… (so not the dynamic kfg was talking about…) note -THIS situ is the direct opposite of guys actually starting to turn they’re situs around by starting to… Read more »
@robpaxton
Welcome to that particular club. Practically every essay here has some direct connection to my life. It’s crazy to see it all play out in real time all around you, and realize it always has been doing that; only you didn’t “get it”.
Is it a ” reverse cuck ” if you bang a lesbian couple?
They call it a “change of pace.”
The Burden of performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bIT8_f1ydM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHsdfeE2k5g
The Performance is the Burden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eQNR-JiTNE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLuCBph9FkQ
@kfg: “You have formulated your model from the top down on ideological grounds, rather than from the bottom up on empirical observation.” Seems to me that 40+ years of direct experience with this counts as “empirical”, including direct observation of legions of couples in my cohort or just behind it. And direct experience of all of our kids, who are adults well into their married lives. (I’ve read a boatload of empirical studies on this stuff, too, much of it quite biased, but empirical never the less, and one can see through and past the biases.) I’ve seen many friends’… Read more »
“If you want your woman to be able to relax into her feminine and shine her natural radiance, then you must relieve her of the necessity to be in charge. This doesn’t mean you need to boss her around….For your woman to relax in her radiance and feminine happiness, she needs to feel that she can get on your train and that it’s going exactly where she wants to go.”
Oh yeah, I’m so riding that train. Who wrote this stuff, SJF? It’s fabulous. Hook me up and I’m out of here. Tomassi will probably thank you. 🙂
You still have to understand the man’s burden of performance and the Misandry Bubble. And then you have to understand and preach the message of why femininity matters (e.g don’t be so bitchy and angry). As well as willful submission to the best map of territory that’s possible for women with a Reconstructed Man.
Source:
http://ferryfalkenburg.nl/wp-content/uploads/The-Way-of-the-Superior-Man.pdf
“Betaization”
By definition, the loss of dominance.
“I have lots of “empirical” on that side . . .”
So show us your model built from the bottom up, rather than from the a priori assumptions down.
@Marko The “danger” that is evident in your posts that is somewhat divined by me (and perhaps also by KFG and Rollo) is the equalist bent. That is why KFG keys in on your lack of acknowledging Submission as a key factor in The Nature of Things. (What women want and makes them better if with a Constructed or ReConstructed Man in a red pill paradigm.) This idea stems from your 40 years of experience in how men and women try to protect themselves in that time frame. They protect themselves by men becoming more feminine and woman becoming more… Read more »
Did someone mentioned Betatization? And loss of Dominance?
Check out the first hit on Google here (posted by me a million times about the Female Process of Betatization for the safety of her and her children.):
https://www.google.com/search?q=%5BTheory%5D%3A+The+Beta-ization+process%3A+Stages+of+female+manipulation+and+levels+of+attraction+from+%22Practical+Female+Psychology%22&oq=%5BTheory%5D%3A+The+Beta-ization+process%3A+Stages+of+female+manipulation+and+levels+of+attraction+from+%22Practical+Female+Psychology%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60.2504j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
On the 44 year old vs 22 year old issue – Rollo has it of course, but I will add: a) I think the issue of pure sexual attractiveness is often conflated with realistic chances of getting the girl, which is basically what Rollo says – if you are a 70 year old dude and don’t realistically see an opportunity to get the 22 year old you will genuinely convince yourself you don’t like her compared to the 44 year old (the converse of the HB6 in Blax’s office convincing herself she didn’t find him attractive because she knew he… Read more »
“While it may seem noble to a newly unplugged guy to want to use his new superpower of Red Pill awareness for good (not for evil) and valiantly use it to do the right thing for his wife, his desire to do so is still founded in a Blue Pill conditioning that’s taught him he’ll be appreciated for it.” And there’s the rub of it. We can see the tree, but not the roots. The tree appears sturdy therefore, in our minds, the roots must be, also. I’ve been blue pill for too long to think it I could rid… Read more »
Very clear that this is moral hectoring for Beta cucks to be ready to provision for wall hitting, lane changing, post-cock-carousel riders. He actually says it, the point about women getting past their adolescent fascination with bad boys. Adolescent, lol, since when did female adolescence extend to age 30? This fucking moron in the video is beyond laughable. This is what passes for intellectual thought a “Prager U”, a conservative agitprop shop. One wonders if Geraghty has ever even bothered to read any of the studies on attraction or the science behind it all? Imagine the arrogance of setting yourself… Read more »
Huge gains lately. Gaming a high SMV P-LTR is sharpening my skills in a way that reading blogs will never do. She’s a willing, non-monogamous plate, but I think she’s ruined for other guys at the moment. She craves me and wants to take care of me etc. but keeps her distance as she doesn’t want to suffocate, all without being told. And she almost always defers to me. I can see her hypergamy so clearly, and how miserable this actually makes a woman. What she really wants to do is give up the game, to know she’s made the… Read more »
“She’s so instructional. Her obsession with the churchian dreck is merely a buffer, a way of not confronting her own unhappiness. “ Watch her next couple comments here. She’s going to shoot a sisterhood arrow and try to paint a bullseye around it in regards to “submission” is easy to an Alpha Male. (Open Hypergamy and all…..) I got a look at Dalrock’s post dated Jan 27.(And the comments section). Man that shit is scary what is going on in the Church. And the head of the Catholic Church is whining about where all the priests and nuns are going.… Read more »
@SJF: Thanks for hugely clarifying and informative post! I’m definitely a Stage II, neither gender submits to the other, both relate together in complementary manner. @Kfg: Beta is when the guy submits to the woman. 50/50 is not beta. Or is it? Usual usage that I’ve seen is “man being bossed around and submitting to the woman.” I don’t know a good term for 50/50 — I’ve seen “partner” used, but almost always by anti-male FI folk. @Kfg: Are you really YaReally? Strange similarity in interactive style. @SJF: To answer your p.s.: By Alpha woman, I meant a DPA woman,… Read more »
@Marko – Simple question. Have you ever been with a woman who’s submitted to you and entered your frame?
@Marko – You just completely contradicted all your commentary with your last response to SJF. If she’s testing your dominance, that’s merely a shit test to determine her perceived value of you is accurate. The you make a truly amusing statement: “She wants to be able to be her full strong assertive (and feminine and sexy) self in a relationship, and yet not be able to dominate the man” – Lol, yeah, no shit post wall, “alpha” bitches want it both ways. This just in…Jesus, you are a mess. There is nothing sexy about that. Demure, coquetteish, sweet – this… Read more »