Are You Experienced?

ontheroad

About three weeks ago I was made aware of an article on the New Republic blog called Bros Before Homes and a few of my followers on Twitter asked me for my take on it then. I did feel it merited more than 140 characters so I figured I’d build a post on it. Honestly, I had more than a couple irons in the fire for blog posts ahead of this, but in hindsight now I’m glad I waited a bit before digging too far in.

I am going to riff on it here, but before I do I’d like to point out that my posting Sugar Babies, before this post was a strategic decision on my part. You’ll understand why a bit later, but keep in mind the general premise of that post – women’s commodification of intimacy dynamic – and the priority of self-importance women place on themselves with regards to what men must pay for and why women believe they’re worth men’s having to pay for it.

I’m asking readers to keep this in mind because Bros Before Homes will contrast starkly next to Sugar Babies.

From the tone of the article you probably won’t need to look up Phoebe Maltz Bovy‘s portfolio to understand her clichéd feminist bias. It’s all of the self-importance and the prerequisite solipsism you’d expect from ‘journalists’ of her stripe, but try to read past the snark she thinks is interesting. Her sarcasm only highlights women’s duplicity with regards to men freeing themselves from the Feminine Imperative and women commodifying their intimate interests in ‘acceptable’ men.

The gist of Bovy’s fabricated angst is how offensively sexist it is for men to prioritize life experience, exploration, self-betterment, hobbies and the virtue signaling she sees inherent in men when they actually go their own way. Men cutting themselves free from the expectations of the Feminine Imperative and a feminine-primary social order always imply the threat of them coming to realize their own value.

It’s also that the very idea of experiences mattering more than things is a way of valorizing the stereotypically masculine. “While men are conditioned to dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas and long nights of hilarity—women are now encouraged to find deep fulfilment in staying home to origami our pants,” she wrote.

Whether women are being encouraged to rid our homes of useless belongings, or urged to shop for new ones, the result is the same: Society continues to associate women with the home and the material, men with the outside and experiences. While the enjoyment of domestic life, of stuff, isn’t inherently negative, it is dismissed precisely because of its associations with the feminine. An orientation towards stuff over experiences, moreover, gets cast either as recklessly materialist or, as Tony perceives it, an impediment to enjoying life. The only constant is that what women prefer, or are imagined to prefer, is thought inferior.

[…]We’re meant to admire the experience-lovers for their indifference to stuff, which implies they’ve got their priorities straight: to live life to the fullest. It’s no coincidence, though, that these experience-lovers are so often male, as it’s a stereotypically male aspiration not to be “tied down”—that is, not to have domestic responsibilities. But these men do have roofs over their heads. The bourgeois life they’re rejecting is simply one they’ve outsourced. After all, Tony hasn’t rejected the material life. He’s just got a woman—his mother—tidying up after him.

Bovy’s presumptions here smack of her reaching for some way to denigrate men’s pragmatically eschewing materialism or being tethered to what would otherwise be considered “grown up” responsibilities and looking for something more personally meaningful for themselves. As with all femosphere journalists you get a bonus 10% on your women’s studies essays if you can find a way to sneak the word’s “sexism” or “misogyny” in a piece.

Bros Before Homes is really nothing novel in the manosphere. MGTOWs have been advocating this reward-for-independence from women for as long as there’s been a movement. What is novel is that this return to a man being his own mental point of origin and prioritizing life experiences as his first priority is a result of an awareness that’s now filtering into the mainstream. It’s very easy to criticize men for being juvenile about foregoing what popular culture would have us believe is preparing ourselves for adulthood, but when this new idealism affects the men women hope will be well-positioned Betas when they’ve reached the end of their Party Years, then there’s cause for concern.

As a side note here, I should also say that it’s interesting to see how fluidly the progress of feminism comes full circle in Bovy’s thought process. She uses the same ambiguous tropes of a regressive society expecting women to resign themselves to domesticity and tidying up after men as if 60+ years of Fempowerment “leveling the playing field” never occurred. This is the same, very tired, cover story that second wave feminism used in the sixties.

The underlying irritation here is that men’s new prioritizing of experiences above materialism is a thorn in the side of women who’ve been given carte blanche to their Hypergamous whims. Bovy cries sexism because she presumes men are unable to engage in all this experience seeking without a support team of mothers and house-bound women, but what really makes her sore is that men doing the seeking reminds women of their natural predilection for materialism and the base of opportunism their concept of love is founded upon.

Bovy’s first mistake is that she’s statistically inaccurate.

The Blue Pill conditioning of the past 60 years has done everything but teach men to “dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas”. That particular conditioning is reserved for women playing along with the Eat, Pray, Love narrative. If anything it’s just the opposite. From education to family to church, men are conditioned for servile Beta-hood and lambasted for not ‘Manning Up’ and being supportive of women’s empowerment at the cost of their own. Conversely, women and womankind have been lifted to unrealistic idealism in pursuing their own interests at the cost of childbearing and monogamous domesticity. Apparently, Bovy’s never read Lean In or even watched a Disney princess movie in the last 50 years.

Off the Reservation

What worries women is that all the Blue Pill conditioning men have endured for the past several decades might be undone if men were to actually make themselves their mental point of origin. What worries the representatives of the Feminine Imperative is that Betas might see the pragmatism in following the example of men who put themselves first. Men who eschew the trappings of building their lives around the materialism women seek when their looks fade and their need for men’s resource security is a better prospect than having to compete for men with their sisters. When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.

Open Hypergamy makes for aware Betas. Men aware of the game they are expected to play must either tamp that understanding down into denial or they simply refuse to play. That refusal can come in many examples, but the reasoning is the same. The deductive, pragmatic response is for men to go their own way and put themselves at the beginning of their thought processes and goals.

The success of women’s sexual strategy depends on ignorant Betas being prepared to meet (or wait for them) at the time at which their need for security is the greatest. This expectation of Betas in Waiting is part of a Hypergamous plan; it is the consolidation of an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks prioritization (also known as the Sandberg Plan). Bros Before Homes is an offense to this plan.

This then becomes a paradox for the Feminine Imperative. A man’s life experiences are generally a wellspring of attraction if not arousal for a woman. Experience is the source of a genuine Amused Mastery and a man’s self-serving experience is usually a prime indicator of an Alpha mindset. My Red Pill brother Goldmund is a perfect example of how personal, self-asserted, self-initiated experiences can be parlayed into a very effective Game.

Be that as it is, the proposition of any and every Beta going MGTOW in various ways, hitting the open road and regaling women with the stories of their exploits presents a problem to Hypergamy; Hypergamy wants certainty and a well-traveled Beta is still a Beta. Furthermore, living for the experiential implies less investment in Beta men developing skills, status, affluence and the personal equity that make them good prospects for Beta providership when they reach the critical age at which women need their cooperation in fulfilling their Hypergamy. At least, that’s the implied concern for women. Men with a sense to educate themselves from experience are usually all the better for it – even when that experience is a nightmare.

I should add here that prioritizing experience above other consideration needn’t be limited to Bovy’s silly impressions of Jack Kerouac’s On the Road.  What concerns the feminine is that men would devote the lion’s share of their personal efforts on anything unrelated to meeting women’s future or present security needs. It’s not just men wanting to scale Mount Vesuvius, it’s men having any self-import at the expense of women. When men’s ambitions are centered on satisfying themselves  and not about developing equity that’s useful to women, that’s when those men (and those who would encourage it) are shamed for not being an adult. They are shamed for not manning up or growing up to meet the needs of women and thus not living up to “adult responsibilities”.

Responsible Adults

It’s not an accident that society conflates men’s servitude with qualities of adulthood – it’s the design.

As such, women begin to get nervous that their future provisioning and security are their own responsibility. How those needs are met are a discussion for various other threads I’ve written, but the social expectations of men qualifying for ‘manhood’ by assisting women to fulfill their own Hypergamous imperatives are at the root of the “sexist” accusations on Bovy’s part. To her, it’s sexist not to plan one’s life according to women’s ‘correct’ sexual strategy.

Bovy actually shares a lot with contemporary Christianity. Ensaturated by feminine primacy, the modern church has made efforts to convince men that their servitude to women is both an article of faith and a prerequisite for responsible adulthood. In a reversal of traditional faith, men aren’t men until they’ve established themselves as being capable of providing for both themselves, but for women as well. Any man shirking this is shamed for “prolonging is adolescence”. All life priority and preparation is presumed to revolve around supporting a future wife irrespective of her own decisions and the results that come from them. The contemporary church is a Beta production institution as it is, but it’s interesting to see how both Bovy and modern Christianity align on the position of men’s proper roles.

This is an interesting parallel when you consider the lengths to which women have gone to emancipate themselves from (ostensibly) being dependent upon men’s influence and provisioning. Western culture has evolved around the strong independent woman stereotype, yet it’s sexist for men to emancipate themselves from the worst of women’s sexual strategy. Bovy’s perspective relies heavily on the Old Books rules set in the misguided belief that women are still beholden to roles of domesticity and repression in an era of triumphantly embraced Open Hypergamy.

Materialism

As I mentioned in the opening, it’s important that we contrast this concern for Betas leaving the plantation with the blatant soft prostitution of the Sugar Babies dynamic. In the light of women’s naked opportunism, and with that opportunism’s materialistic purpose, it’s easy to see how patently false Bovy’s premise is here.

In an era where we develop successful apps to aid women in setting their price on a basic date, it’s easy to recognize Bovy’s disingenuousness. MGTOW and its Red Pill aware derivatives are really just practical, logical responses of men protecting themselves from an Open Hypergamy women are all too ready to educate them about. The End of Men is also the eventual end of women’s expectations of long term provisioning. If Bros aren’t interested in homes the old social contract is put in jeopardy and Open Hypergamy only serves to expedite this shift. Women at the Epiphany Phase looking for the “equal partner” that Sheryl Sandberg assures her sisters will be waiting for them find that men have declined to play along.

The old joke is that if women would have sex in a cardboard box men would never buy a house. The joke’s played out now because women are happy to fuck an Alpha in much less, and now they’re proud enough to tell Betas all about it.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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DirkJohanson
Guest

Really good stuff again. I’ve always liked your tweets and comments on other sites, but didn’t find the time to read your blog much. I tend toward snark in my own writings, but appreciate that this and the last couple posts of yours were awesome, and the commenters here are, by and large, great, too.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Y’know what really gets broads like Bovy all riled up? Wanna know what gets her panties all twisted up, in my opinion? She can get a man’s attention, maybe hissperm, and then use that to take his money, his car, his job, his house, his profession, reputation, etc. pretty much most of his life but: She can’t take a man’s experiences away from him. That’s a fact. Learning of any kind can’t be taken away from a man. IMO that’s what really bugs her. That there’s some thing in a man’s life that a woman like her can’t reach out,… Read more »

Red Lurker
Guest
Red Lurker

As a 25 year old, I deeply thank you Rollo. Your blog is the glass of juice with which I swallow my dose of the redpill. Thank-you Rollo, for your insights, for these perspectives.

nikochoski
Guest

Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Women want male resources. Even a thousand of years of feminism would never change that. Suddenly the men they could take advantage off are waking up to these realities. What mgtow have done very well over the years is offer pragmatism with financial reasons as to why this is not a good idea. Whether you are alpha or beta a man can see that marriage is a bad deal for men. This makes a man try to look after himself by basically applying logic to the situation. Unfortunately marriage makes no… Read more »

LeonJ
Guest
LeonJ

Rollo,
Thanks for the book recommendation. I’m familiar with Robert Greens books and A Billion Wicked Thoughts through TRM and I’d be interested in other books that have influenced you. Game and non game related.

Thanks

– Posted in sugar babies

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

If the sugar baby thing spreads, rich betas may like it at first but I think there’s a question they won’t be able to avoid. It was mentioned by Illimitable Man and Black Label Logic that they are selling an illusion of exclusivity. The prostitute makes no illusion. The feeling of they’ll do it with anybody comes as part of it. And that’s what the sugar babies have to tell themselves and their critics about why they’re above prostitution. But the more tactics get switch the more tactics can become easily recognized. So at some point, the sugar baby claim… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

I like materialism. If it is a severely straining mental exercise and an adventure.

http://spacetimepro.blogspot.com/

M Simon
Guest

Anonymous Reader
July 18th, 2016 at 9:43 pm

Given the way their GenX and even Boomer parents have lost “stuff” in the last 10 years between housing bust, stock market crash, etc. it’s not a deep mystery.

The stuff didn’t go away. Its money value just declined. A suggested cure for that:

A Different View Of Economics

TheGrandWool
Guest

Reblogged this on thegrandwool.

XD
Guest
XD

Open Hypergamy means the end of committed relationships as we know it down the road-including marriage. Plates my age and younger have so many orbiters being committed to one guy would actually hurt them: as then they’d have to accept favors and money from mainly that singular dude. Between the government, family(such as enabling Beta fathers) , and orbiters female provisioning needs today are met and then some without the need for a marriage license. On the flip side, bluepill conditioning is so entrenched today it’s blatant misogyny now to go Dutch on dates, unless doing so was Her Idea.… Read more »

Bart
Guest
Bart

Rollo, your last paragraph is devastating in its truth: Phoebe wrote a New Republic piece in February, “What Straight Women Want,” that I imagine she saw as insightful and original. Direct quote: “Unless a woman is very clear that she’s just looking for something casual, and not open even to the possibility of something serious developing, ‘looking at guys’ reads as ‘looking for the status that comes from male attention or commitment.’ Add to that the further blurriness between women’s opposite-gender attraction and female beauty. Our society understands female desire as the desire to be thought beautiful by a high-status… Read more »

Opus
Guest
Opus

Rollo is our on-line Hendrix.

Pinelero
Guest
Pinelero

‘When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.” “This is an interesting parallel when you consider the lengths to which women have gone to emancipate themselves from (ostensibly) being dependent upon men’s influence and provisioning. Western culture has evolved around the strong independent woman stereotype, yet it’s sexist for men to emancipate themselves from the worst of women’s sexual strategy” RP gold. Whenever a woman tries to define what it is to be a man, then… Read more »

Black Label Logic
Guest

This strikes me as a classic “having your cake and eating it too” situation, wherein the feminine imperative wants to enact their Sandberg plan, yet have the same thing their grandmothers had, namely a freedom from responsibilities and self-provisioning. The strong independent woman does not exist, what exists is a woman who wants to demonstrate her self governance through 10 – 15 years of career-chasing, going through 500 miles of Mr. Right, and then wants a dutiful beta to swoop in, preferably with a house already set up, so she can be knocked up as quickly as possible and be… Read more »

Mean Mr. Mustard
Guest
Mean Mr. Mustard

The ultimate beneficiaries to much of this hypocritical f*ckery by women will be cats.

Lots and lots and lots of cats.

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

@bart It can be easy to assume women love the idea of fucking you because you look hot. Since you’re a man and that’s how YOU work. However, believe it or not, the visual arousal that women experience of a virile, strong-looking man is predicated upon the paradigm of utility he has for her. She doesn’t want to fuck you cuz you have muscles. Although the elevated T levels help. She wants to fuck you because you’re “a hot man”. Her female mind has just the place to put you. But you are always placed. Always of use, always of… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

” . . . the visual arousal that women experience of a virile, strong-looking man is predicated upon the paradigm of utility he has for her.”

A man can best assess the looks of a woman while she is sleeping.
A woman can best assess the looks of a man while he is chopping wood.

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

Rollo
I’m been training all aspects of myself to become alpha and work on asserting the beta by putting it in it’s place.

Thanks for caring because it’s so true and real and in this day and age dangerous.

informationjunkie1984
Guest
informationjunkie1984

MGTOW is just a protest against the new marriage dynamics from feminists corrupting the legal system. There is no deep profound meaning of male/female values or needs beyond that. The fact that we have a democracy where women can consistently outvote men to give themselves more rights and privileges is the driving factor. I would submit that some event(s) would have to occur that challenges the legitimacy of universal suffrage for anything to really change. Most successful civilizations have made the wise determination that since it is men that must defend a society with their lives, perhaps they are in… Read more »

Is This Thing On?
Guest
Is This Thing On?

I sit in a coffee shop as I read this. A couple walk in. The woman does the ordering. She reaches into her boyfriends pocket and pulls out his wallet. She gets a credit card out and shows it to him as she mouths, “This one?”. She pays for the drinks and gives him his wallet back as she tells the dude she is going to go talk to dude #2. Dude #1 dutifully waits for the drinks. After the drinks are ready he stands there and waits for the woman to finish her conversation with dude #2 and then… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

“Perhaps that makes it more radical than anything else — with its tasteful design and young, hip founder, Ohlala suggests a world in which there’s no “kind of woman” who sells her time and affection, because every woman could be that kind of woman.” That new dating app… Wow… Nice. Yeah this is exactly what I was talking about in the previous thread when I talking about BB != sex being normalized. The FI is literally going to self destruct. lol… Could you think of a more fitting end to a feminized era? The rationalizations are going to be HILARIOUS.… Read more »

SJB
Guest
SJB

“There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I we’ve been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour’s getting late.”

– Jimi Hendrix, “All along the watchtower”

Males bond in a manner that a woman cannot emulate nor participate; that pisses them off to no end.

redlight
Guest
redlight

“The Duchess of Cambridge’s younger sister Pippa Middleton and hedge fund manager James Matthews have announced their engagement. …Matthews got down on one knee while they were visiting the picturesque Lake District and proposed to the 32-year-old Middleton.”

Post-wall women are still marrying beta bucks, only people living a bubble think this changing

Forge the Sky
Guest

“It’s also that the very idea of experiences mattering more than things is a way of valorizing the stereotypically masculine.” Oh NO. ” “While men are conditioned to dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas and long nights of hilarity—” Fair enough, that narrative does exist. Though only really for men under 25, after that you’re a man child (if beta), or a ‘free spirit’ (if alpha) – a good thing but an aberration not to be aspired to by other (beta) men. “….women are now encouraged to find deep fulfilment in staying… Read more »

thedeti
Guest

@ Anon Reader:

“She can’t take a man’s experiences away from him. ”

That’s not what pisses off women like Bovy.

What pisses them off is that these men aren’t lining up like good little slaves, willingly accepting their chains and fetters.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

“Post-wall women are still marrying beta bucks, only people living a bubble think this changing” I wouldn’t be so cut and dry. A slow change is still a change. But I will say that option will never go a way. Or maybe I should say those type of men will always be around. Just not so many. There will need to be a change in the platforms that women have to keep delivering the propaganda. Or there will need to be more platforms where men will call out the crap. Human nature to start believing a message you hear over… Read more »

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“if women would have sex in a cardboard box men would never buy a house.” mortgage means “death grip”. fuck the bankers. deep down I knew I never wanted to play house. I didn’t want from my wife what I already had from my mother growing up (except of course the cooking) and doing maintenance with my father (cutting grass, painting, repairs, upgrades, etc.) was never fulfilling to me. I appreciate having had a nice roof over my head when I was a kid, but things are different now. when my wife and I were just fuckbuddies, I took her… Read more »

Virgil Hunt
Guest

All your posts to me come down to this: a single, mental point of origin originating with yourself. I don’t think this has to preclude a partnership with a woman. If a woman is willing to accept that you will always act in your best interest (and presumably she believes that you acting in your best interest will somehow benefit her), then respect that she has faith in you and pursue a partnership. If you get tired of her, move on. Most girls these days seem to try to assert their independence by going toe to toe with you. Whether… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

@ Rollo I started thinking that peeling back layers to interpersonal dynamics and hidden motivations might be related to it. After all, in fencing you can’t just swing a foil and hack away at the opponent. You’ll work against yourself. Accuracy of touch vs. volume of applied power, in a way. Like there’s stuff women will do and there’s stuff women actually may not be able to keep from doing. Need to and can look into why instead of just relegating to women are bitches. Got any other interest? Like maybe archery, racing (especially the development side to it), maybe… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“mortgage means “death grip”.” I don’t have a mortgage. I am still in a death grip of debt to the tune of several thousand a year (welcome to NY) as long as I have the house. The Lord demands his land rent. Housing is not an investment, it’s an expense. Spend your money in the way that best suits the way you live. If I worked in a cubicle and didn’t make things there’s no way I would want to be saddled with a house, not even one that was paid for. And if you need a house, make it… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

“I think a lot of people will take the above post with an arrogant, “Yeah, I’m gonna do what the fuck I want” aggression that rivals what women do”

Nope. But they’ll respond.
Such as, the reason why you need to make you as your mental point of origin is because women don’t stick around unless she sees some benefit to her. You don’t presume that if that is how they are.
Others with more time to comment may speak on a woman allowing you to live in such a way and about good women being hard to find keeping you in check.

kfg
Guest
kfg

@Virgil Hunt: “. . . perhaps this is me protecting some pretty lies I learned as a youngster . . .”

It is.

“I do believe that there are merits to a stable partnership with a woman.”

Which is not the same thing at all as a “spiritual union.” You would be advised to give some thought to the meaning of “stable” as well. A stable bicycle is always falling over. If it isn’t, it’s unrideable.

walawala
Guest
walawala

Rollo wrote: “”What worries the representatives of the Feminine Imperative is that Betas might see the pragmatism in following the example of men who put themselves first and eschew the trappings of building their lives around the materialism women seek when their looks fade and their need for men’s resource security is a better prospect than having to compete for men with their sisters.”” This is why some of the biggest shit tests of today’s women I hear are: “Why haven’t you called? At least be a man about it…” “I thought you were more of a man….” My go… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

Meet Virgil Hunt. My more literate alter ego.

Thanks for writing out what I have been spastically trying to imply in comments over the past 18 months.

Not as a recommendation for just any old man, but perhaps an option/fork in the road. Like something that Julien from RSD would do to balance his dopamine infusions.

cheupez
Guest

The paragraph of the year: The old joke is that if women would have sex in a cardboard box men would never buy a house. The joke’s played out now because women are happy to fuck an Alpha in much less, and now they’re proud enough to tell Betas all about it. Brings up the question again: What is a man to tell his daughter? If Alpha; the men capable of exciting genuine desire in women is as rare as 10% of the male population: Then “settling down” means “settling for” (a second, third, fourth best choice, or worse) in… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@wala

“Why haven’t you called? At least be a man about it…”

This is a comfort test and you can’t just go, “Actually, I’m thinking about trans-gendering.” You have to actually provide some comfort like, “You’re an exotic bird and if I spent a lot of time talking with you, you’d become common and boring. I want to keep you exotic.

kfg
Guest
kfg

” . . . be a man . . .”

Translation: stop being a man.

theasdgamer
Guest

Most girls these days seem to try to assert their independence

How mannish. Women who try to become men make themselves into second-rate women and third-rate men.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

then there are guys like Niko who still engage with women, the Red Pill and Game but only on their own terms. I see a lot more married men adopting this mindset too;

Hmmm pursuing The Platinum Rule [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it]?

Leiff
Guest
Leiff

From the 1986 Rodney Dangerfield classic Back to School:
” Women today, they only think of themselves. When Vanessa and I would have sex, she used to scream out her own name.”

greginaurora
Guest

From personal experience: if a man has children with a woman, but isn’t married to her and is clear that he’ll never marry her, but they’re nonetheless living together and raising their children together, the Hypergamy loses a great deal of its power. She may still have been a slut, but she has to face, every day of her new life, the fact that her man may tell her to leave, at which point she won’t have the house, or the car, or the refrigerator full of food, or most important of all any form of alimony or spousal support.… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

I love being one of the guys this chick is whining about. I don’t care about stuff and the stuff that I do have is about the experiences I have with them. Apparently, Bovy’s never read Lean In or even watched a Disney princess movie in the last 50 years. Or browsed her sisters’ dating profiles, for that matter. Go look at a few and get back to me on how women aren’t getting the same message. I suspect her ire comes from the fact that if EVERYONE is doing it, nobody will have a house to live in when… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

” . . . pursuing The Platinum Rule . . .?”

With the addendum to think carefully about doing something that reduces your future options.

MGTOW is a strategy, not a tactic.

Trent Lane
Guest
Trent Lane

Great article. Watching society unfold rough a red pill lense is so often completely logical, hilarious and bizarre at the same time lol. „ When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.“ This is key and already VERY observable where I live. Even the most blue-pill-sucked-in-betaized men I know are refusing marriage-by-default now. Some fine survival instict comes through all the social programming and whispers to them: Don’t do it. Look around. It’s insane. It’s not… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

@ Rollo

“I see a lot more married men adopting this mindset too”

I worked really, really hard at exactly that for the last three years. My current red pill mindset is 180 degrees different from what it was back then.

That mindset is unbounded and it’s not very scary now (it was along the way). Like Bill Kilgore said “it smells like victory”.

“….you must go your own way with a new awareness Acceptance or go into denial regress into stages of Grief–Denial,Anger, Bargaining or Depression.”

Leiff
Guest
Leiff

@Trent Lane
It appears the girl and her boyfriend are moochers who currently live off the donations some idiots give them through Patreon. I wonder how much they’d get if she wasn’t a total hottie who wore a bikini most of the time.

kfg
Guest
kfg

@Leiff:

The Sugar Baby rabbit hole goes deep enough that it can be exploited by savvy men.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

It appears the girl and her boyfriend are moochers who currently live off the donations some idiots give them through Patreon Yeah, so? People are living vicariously through them. No coercion involved. For centuries, people have paid other people to create objects of art – paintings, sculpture, mosaics, weavings, pieces of wood, etc. and so forth. People have also paid others to entertain them with music, with stories either told with words or told with words on paper or told with words and music, etc. Writers, actors, playwrights, opera singers, etc. Those other people are called “artists”. Some people also… Read more »

thedeti
Guest

Great and timely post, by the way, Rollo.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

: “She can’t take a man’s experiences away from him. ” thedeti That’s not what pisses off women like Bovy. What pisses them off is that these men aren’t lining up like good little slaves, willingly accepting their chains and fetters. Yeah, I agree and I got that part, but re-read her screed. It looks to me that she takes the whole “collect experiences” thing personally, really personally. Not just the “that money could have gone towards someting useful“, either. It’s like Aunt Polly wants to control Huck Finn not just for his own good, but to keep him from… Read more »

Leiff
Guest
Leiff

Are you seriously comparing the youtube videos of bikini girl to the works of Mozart or Michelangelo?

Voyeurism? Mild titillation? Yes.

Art, which is supposed to ennoble the soul? Never.

Paniym
Guest
Paniym

In the church it’s a really sad state of affairs. For anyone seriously listening to the leadership in the church will become a AFC hard core beta in time. It’s really sad.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

M. Simon The stuff didn’t go away. Its money value just declined. Look, just because you apparently have never gone through “Parents bought too much house near the top of the market, value dropped, mortage went upside down, one parent’s hours got cut and the bank foreclosed so everyone had to move to a smaller, crummier house” it does not follow that others did not. Sometimes you really come across as totally, solipsistically, tone deaf. Sure, some millennials are pretty casual about money. But some others I know are deathly afraid of any sort of debt, because they personally saw… Read more »

Paniym
Guest
Paniym
Paniym
Guest
Paniym

Cynical, I know but it’s the truth.

Trent Lane
Guest
Trent Lane

@Leiff, kfg And so we’ve come full circle to Sugar Babies lol. Point being, they are doing as a couple what Phoebe Maltz Bovy observes as “stereotypically male aspiration not to be “tied down”. And just how many Female Travel Blogs are out there, documenting exactly this lifestyle? “My name is Kate McCulley and I travel the world for a living.” http://www.adventurouskate.com/about-this-blog/about-kate/ “GRRRLTRAVELER is a travel survival and solo travel site inspiring others to find their GRRR for travel. It’s about finding empowerment as a traveler by navigating cultural diversity while experiencing the bizarre, foreign, frightening and often times, funny.”… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

comment image

Jetxo
Guest
Jetxo

Hypergamy at full throttle in 17 minutes. Enjoy.

IAS
Guest
IAS

@Andy: Hilarious picture but it is more like “My other cheated on her soon-to-be husband, he still married her, and I and a group of other men created a religion out of it”.

Andy
Guest
Andy

@IAS

lol. Joseph chose the blue pill.

Looking For Zion
Guest
Looking For Zion

Insightful. Cutting. Devastating. Brilliant. This is the kind of stuff I come to TRM for. This is worth reading five times.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

“Society continues to associate women with the home and the material, men with the outside and experiences.”

A major part of this association, never mentioned in the “article”, is children… Children are the anchor that tie the mother and by extension the father to the home…

Enjoyed the clip of the sailing couple… and Fleezer’s story of taking his wife on the road… All this will grind to a stop once kids come along… that whole thing about long gestation period and slow development and all… expensive…

sfer
Guest
sfer

The dude he is talking about lives with his parents and buys $200 bottles of wine

http://torontolife.com/city/life/spend-generation-manifesto/

he can do what he wants I guess.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

back in the day, when I was a neophyte, I could drink just about anything. These days, I know exactly what I like and what I don’t.

A wine habit is waaaaaay more expensive than a coke habit…

Trent Lane
Guest
Trent Lane

Actually most of what the guy in the original article (http://torontolife.com/city/life/spend-generation-manifesto/) says is completely sensible in his position. Except this part: “Yes, there are drawbacks to living at home. My folks are devout Christians, and they don’t condone sex before marriage. I’ve had girls over, but they rarely stay the night. If they do, my mom makes them sleep in the basement, and she keeps one eye open all night. Do they love when I come home at four in the morning? No. But they get over it. To make it work, my date and I will go to a… Read more »

MikePhil
Guest
MikePhil

@Anonymous Reader: I agree with your comment above. What’s primal about men is our unfettered energy, our ability to take off and follow the road of our dreams to wherever it leads. And ironically, that energy is simultaneously attractive AND repellent to the female mindset. They envy that freedom and want it for themselves, and the whiff of danger and excitement gets them aroused. Yet, it’s also the kind of energy that needs to be contained, channeled and eventually broken, like a thoroughbred stallion harnessed to a junk wagon. It’s the contempt leveled at Beta men for falling for the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Are you seriously comparing the youtube videos of bikini girl to the works of Mozart or Michelangelo?

Nah. Nice work on the fallacy, though.

Voyeurism? Mild titillation? Yes.
Art, which is supposed to ennoble the soul? Never.

Suppose I offer you a cup of tea. Am I engaged in art, or not?

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

@Anonymous Reader Some of these people are ducking the daily grind or at least look that way to the “rest of us”. Some of these people see others on youtube getting paid to be themselves and it makes them a little pissed. “why is that faggot getting to live a better life than me?” They wonder. While ignoring that the people on these channels still have flaws and often are famous BECAUSE of them. While ignoring that it’s the same daily grind, just it takes a new form they are unaccustomed to. @Leiff No need to be Jelly. Each of… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Mr. Mustard – “The ultimate beneficiaries to much of this hypocritical f*ckery by women will be cats.Lots and lots and lots of cats.” Spot-fucking-on. Can we at least laugh about this?

@Trent – Nice reference to the La Vagabonde nomadic sailing series on YouTube. I watch it like maybe some guys here watch the Bacholerette. I notice how the Rollie rarely surrenders his frame but is almost never overtly dominant. It’s a very interesting example of young people just running away from the world and for fuck’s sake, who can blame them?

God is Laughing
Guest
God is Laughing

“Bros before homes”? Seriously, I thought this was another way to describe female open hypergamy, a polite way of saying AF/BB (at first glance)

Bros being the alphas and homes being the betas. I guess the irony would be lost on them.

Vektor
Guest
Vektor

“MGTOW has a long way to go before it affects anything.”

All any man has to change is his own life.

God is Laughing
Guest

Also, putting the shoe on the other foot. What are we to say of fempowermed women getting “life experiences”? Who are they outsourcing their adult responsibilities to? Their future husbands who are expected to pick up their debts and their illegitimate children?

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

Re: MiniFR – My HB9 plate got all bitchy and I recognized again that it was a comfort test. Complained that I don’t treat her like she’s special, and that fucking me is special for me. Let me be clear. From the neck down, she has virtually a perfect body. Natural D-cups, size zero, tiny waist, round little hips and ass. face has some good and bad angles, she keeps her hair long. So get it, sex with her at my age, 54, is clearly a treat. I’ve had this with one other woman, a soft sugar baby a couple… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

And oh yeah, as far as this post goes, sure, spot on. But I just don’t give a fuck what some femcunt has to say anymore. Not that it doesn’t reflect a fucked culture, but yeah, I just don’t give a shit. That is some serious growth. The world is gonna do what it does. i’m gonna slay as much pussy and have as much fun and prosperity as I can in the meantime. Oh yeah, the son of the founder of The New Republic, who was its editor for like 20 years in the 30s/40s was an actual KGB… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Great post Rollo. The article by Bovy is exquisite tripe. It’s never a good look when broads attempt to shame a man for doing what he sees fit with his life. The fem-bias is completely transparent. As a male who encourages men to live a life that is gratifying, I still found some of the dude who was the subject of the article was saying as a little bit strange ( after following the link to his entry ). I still think he’s doing what he feels he needs to, and I am at a different station in life, but… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Has anyone ever tried to Game prostitutes (sugar babies, whatevah) by pitting them against each other? Using preselection, you should be able to get them to compete for your attention and this might result in some free sex and real desire.

theasdgamer
Guest

@scrib

The rot of the left in our society goes so much deeper than most people will ever realize.

The Cold War lingers.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Cold war… Red October more likely…

Lost Patrol
Guest
Lost Patrol

These posts are great. This one immediately brought to mind an interview I heard today on radio. BBC reporter (male) is speaking with Turkish intellectuals (his word not mine) about the fallout from the coup attempt in Turkey.

Interviewee (woman, novelist, living in LONDON) is answering a question about what she fears in the aftermath, especially given that fellow intellectuals (university presidents) have been told to resign.

After the usual litany one would expect to hear at this point, she adds that she also fears a “resurgence of masculinity”.

I’ll bet.

Softek
Guest
Softek

You all know I’m the unspoken champion of Hendrix. That’s why I felt compelled to post this. Anyway, beyond drunk right now. Home brew. Confirmed success because I’m seeing double, lmao. Shit. Well anyway folks….been a rough time lately. But a drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts. I don’t feel like the endless pursuit of pussy is forever. But temporary? Sure. Hitting up a few girls in a night and feeling the rush….important maybe for a guy my age, mid 20’s or so. Anyone know Stone Free by Hendrix? “a woman here, a woman there try to keep… Read more »

The Question
Guest

“When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.” And that’s where things will get interesting. What else can they do that isn’t already being done now, short of outright coercion? Of course, her article concerns a small minority of men – albeit big enough to cause dread. One thing she really missed is that for a lot of men in my generation it’s a bit of a moot point whether the man wants to be a… Read more »

SFC Ton
Guest

Tip of the hat to you Rollo, for reading a complete article written by a girl.

Every time I try that I get…. maybe 5 sentences in and think to myself, who gives a shit?… then I tap out

SFC Ton
Guest

Learning can be taken from a man

LSD and a deep cycle marine battery, hammer to the head, car accident, various illnesses etc

I know folks mean well when they say that but it’s utter bullshit and casually dismisses the brutality and randomness of life

SJF
Guest
SJF

H/T on your Anniversary Rollo!

Praise be Mrs. Tomassi. And congratulations on raising Bebe Tomassi well.

And Thank You for turning my own personal battle ship around. Your red pill praxeology worked better for me than: Lynyrd Skinner’s Gimme back my Bullets: “And I drank enough whiskey to float a battleship around.”

I’m another redemption (the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil) credit for you.

Great work.

Hunter S Thompson
Guest
Hunter S Thompson

Test Post.

dlsada
Guest
dlsada

Here’s a pic of Bovy-a face that begs to be slapped,

comment image&action=click

M Simon
Guest

Virgil Hunt
July 19th, 2016 at 8:10 am

I have had a spiritual union without female surrender for quite some time. I have been teaching her how to surrender and finally after the longest time it is having some effect. She is happier. So am I.

M Simon
Guest

SFC Ton
July 19th, 2016 at 9:20 pm

I take it that all you know about LSD has been learned from the popular press. But in a sense you are correct. If there are things you want to unlearn it helps. Tim Leary used it to help people unlearn alcoholism. To some effect.

alphahomosapien
Guest

greatings from the tip of Africa,  the redpill is still very fresh in my veins, I see things so differently now that I feel reborn   apartheid as a political and cultural ideology was not defeated in 1994, with the election of Nelson Mandela it was replaced with neo-liberalism, to placate the black masses, the petty apartheid laws were dismantled and a black middle class created,   to give you guys and idea of what this actually means, desegregation in South African schools became official in the early 90s, I was born in 1991  fast forward… Read more »

Ang Aamer
Guest

The Beta will always be there for you. When I read women getting up in arms about something Men are doing. I think back to my days in rural America. When I grew up, young ladies 18 or so would be adamant about NOT settling down with some farmer or farmer’s son. They wanted to get out of small town America and see the Mall in the big city. Many of these brave women explorers would say this directly. Farmer John will always be there, why should I rush to be stuck on the farm? It’s really telling that I… Read more »

Kaminsky
Guest
Kaminsky

SJB,

Dylan wrote those lyrics, not Hendrix.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Ang These female teachers were all about getting young High Schoolers to delay having kids. Yeah… women are as Blue Pill as guys and fall for this kind of propagandizing… However – watch what they do not what they say… My wife, when we met and she was in college, had the same notions… would get a cool job, not settle down etc… We were married a few months after her graduation. Had a kid within a year of that. She worked a total of 3 months in our 25 year marriage (right at the beginning)… LOL She can hardly… Read more »

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

@Rollo
“I made the case that if you are Red Pill aware there comes a point where you have no choice but to be MGTOW to some degree since you are effectively cut away from the Blue Pill existence. You can’t say you didn’t know better, so to some effect unplugging sets you apart from following the Blue Pill script – you must go your own way with a new awareness or go into denial.”
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dcOC-Sfl5N4
http://www.screenplaydb.com/film/download/informersthe/
This story comes up that way with how life becomes nostalgic from blue to red…

ace
Guest
ace

XD

July 19th, 2016 at 2:46 am
“Open Hypergamy means the end of committed relationships as we know it down the road-including marriage.”

Go even further. The social acceptance of premarital (and casual) sex was the beginning of the end for – traditional – marriage.

Kaminsky
Guest
Kaminsky

Rollo, You’re going to have hundreds, if not thousands of men who will have your back for the next fifty years if you’re ever in a bind. Seriously. The writing is so clear and so valuable. I hope the plaudits aren’t too much but I had to give you one there. Damned gold. Phoebe Bovy looks to be wallbanging pretty hard right about now. I saw one photo that really flattered her but she lost some hair and just looks latte’d out and tired now. Leftist pseudo-emotion is about as healthy in one’s blood as battery acid. Her screed is… Read more »

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