Are You Experienced?


About three weeks ago I was made aware of an article on the New Republic blog called Bros Before Homes and a few of my followers on Twitter asked me for my take on it then. I did feel it merited more than 140 characters so I figured I’d build a post on it. Honestly, I had more than a couple irons in the fire for blog posts ahead of this, but in hindsight now I’m glad I waited a bit before digging too far in.

I am going to riff on it here, but before I do I’d like to point out that my posting Sugar Babies, before this post was a strategic decision on my part. You’ll understand why a bit later, but keep in mind the general premise of that post – women’s commodification of intimacy dynamic – and the priority of self-importance women place on themselves with regards to what men must pay for and why women believe they’re worth men’s having to pay for it.

I’m asking readers to keep this in mind because Bros Before Homes will contrast starkly next to Sugar Babies.

From the tone of the article you probably won’t need to look up Phoebe Maltz Bovy‘s portfolio to understand her clichéd feminist bias. It’s all of the self-importance and the prerequisite solipsism you’d expect from ‘journalists’ of her stripe, but try to read past the snark she thinks is interesting. Her sarcasm only highlights women’s duplicity with regards to men freeing themselves from the Feminine Imperative and women commodifying their intimate interests in ‘acceptable’ men.

The gist of Bovy’s fabricated angst is how offensively sexist it is for men to prioritize life experience, exploration, self-betterment, hobbies and the virtue signaling she sees inherent in men when they actually go their own way. Men cutting themselves free from the expectations of the Feminine Imperative and a feminine-primary social order always imply the threat of them coming to realize their own value.

It’s also that the very idea of experiences mattering more than things is a way of valorizing the stereotypically masculine. “While men are conditioned to dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas and long nights of hilarity—women are now encouraged to find deep fulfilment in staying home to origami our pants,” she wrote.

Whether women are being encouraged to rid our homes of useless belongings, or urged to shop for new ones, the result is the same: Society continues to associate women with the home and the material, men with the outside and experiences. While the enjoyment of domestic life, of stuff, isn’t inherently negative, it is dismissed precisely because of its associations with the feminine. An orientation towards stuff over experiences, moreover, gets cast either as recklessly materialist or, as Tony perceives it, an impediment to enjoying life. The only constant is that what women prefer, or are imagined to prefer, is thought inferior.

[…]We’re meant to admire the experience-lovers for their indifference to stuff, which implies they’ve got their priorities straight: to live life to the fullest. It’s no coincidence, though, that these experience-lovers are so often male, as it’s a stereotypically male aspiration not to be “tied down”—that is, not to have domestic responsibilities. But these men do have roofs over their heads. The bourgeois life they’re rejecting is simply one they’ve outsourced. After all, Tony hasn’t rejected the material life. He’s just got a woman—his mother—tidying up after him.

Bovy’s presumptions here smack of her reaching for some way to denigrate men’s pragmatically eschewing materialism or being tethered to what would otherwise be considered “grown up” responsibilities and looking for something more personally meaningful for themselves. As with all femosphere journalists you get a bonus 10% on your women’s studies essays if you can find a way to sneak the word’s “sexism” or “misogyny” in a piece.

Bros Before Homes is really nothing novel in the manosphere. MGTOWs have been advocating this reward-for-independence from women for as long as there’s been a movement. What is novel is that this return to a man being his own mental point of origin and prioritizing life experiences as his first priority is a result of an awareness that’s now filtering into the mainstream. It’s very easy to criticize men for being juvenile about foregoing what popular culture would have us believe is preparing ourselves for adulthood, but when this new idealism affects the men women hope will be well-positioned Betas when they’ve reached the end of their Party Years, then there’s cause for concern.

As a side note here, I should also say that it’s interesting to see how fluidly the progress of feminism comes full circle in Bovy’s thought process. She uses the same ambiguous tropes of a regressive society expecting women to resign themselves to domesticity and tidying up after men as if 60+ years of Fempowerment “leveling the playing field” never occurred. This is the same, very tired, cover story that second wave feminism used in the sixties.

The underlying irritation here is that men’s new prioritizing of experiences above materialism is a thorn in the side of women who’ve been given carte blanche to their Hypergamous whims. Bovy cries sexism because she presumes men are unable to engage in all this experience seeking without a support team of mothers and house-bound women, but what really makes her sore is that men doing the seeking reminds women of their natural predilection for materialism and the base of opportunism their concept of love is founded upon.

Bovy’s first mistake is that she’s statistically inaccurate.

The Blue Pill conditioning of the past 60 years has done everything but teach men to “dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas”. That particular conditioning is reserved for women playing along with the Eat, Pray, Love narrative. If anything it’s just the opposite. From education to family to church, men are conditioned for servile Beta-hood and lambasted for not ‘Manning Up’ and being supportive of women’s empowerment at the cost of their own. Conversely, women and womankind have been lifted to unrealistic idealism in pursuing their own interests at the cost of childbearing and monogamous domesticity. Apparently, Bovy’s never read Lean In or even watched a Disney princess movie in the last 50 years.

Off the Reservation

What worries women is that all the Blue Pill conditioning men have endured for the past several decades might be undone if men were to actually make themselves their mental point of origin. What worries the representatives of the Feminine Imperative is that Betas might see the pragmatism in following the example of men who put themselves first. Men who eschew the trappings of building their lives around the materialism women seek when their looks fade and their need for men’s resource security is a better prospect than having to compete for men with their sisters. When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.

Open Hypergamy makes for aware Betas. Men aware of the game they are expected to play must either tamp that understanding down into denial or they simply refuse to play. That refusal can come in many examples, but the reasoning is the same. The deductive, pragmatic response is for men to go their own way and put themselves at the beginning of their thought processes and goals.

The success of women’s sexual strategy depends on ignorant Betas being prepared to meet (or wait for them) at the time at which their need for security is the greatest. This expectation of Betas in Waiting is part of a Hypergamous plan; it is the consolidation of an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks prioritization (also known as the Sandberg Plan). Bros Before Homes is an offense to this plan.

This then becomes a paradox for the Feminine Imperative. A man’s life experiences are generally a wellspring of attraction if not arousal for a woman. Experience is the source of a genuine Amused Mastery and a man’s self-serving experience is usually a prime indicator of an Alpha mindset. My Red Pill brother Goldmund is a perfect example of how personal, self-asserted, self-initiated experiences can be parlayed into a very effective Game.

Be that as it is, the proposition of any and every Beta going MGTOW in various ways, hitting the open road and regaling women with the stories of their exploits presents a problem to Hypergamy; Hypergamy wants certainty and a well-traveled Beta is still a Beta. Furthermore, living for the experiential implies less investment in Beta men developing skills, status, affluence and the personal equity that make them good prospects for Beta providership when they reach the critical age at which women need their cooperation in fulfilling their Hypergamy. At least, that’s the implied concern for women. Men with a sense to educate themselves from experience are usually all the better for it – even when that experience is a nightmare.

I should add here that prioritizing experience above other consideration needn’t be limited to Bovy’s silly impressions of Jack Kerouac’s On the Road.  What concerns the feminine is that men would devote the lion’s share of their personal efforts on anything unrelated to meeting women’s future or present security needs. It’s not just men wanting to scale Mount Vesuvius, it’s men having any self-import at the expense of women. When men’s ambitions are centered on satisfying themselves  and not about developing equity that’s useful to women, that’s when those men (and those who would encourage it) are shamed for not being an adult. They are shamed for not manning up or growing up to meet the needs of women and thus not living up to “adult responsibilities”.

Responsible Adults

It’s not an accident that society conflates men’s servitude with qualities of adulthood – it’s the design.

As such, women begin to get nervous that their future provisioning and security are their own responsibility. How those needs are met are a discussion for various other threads I’ve written, but the social expectations of men qualifying for ‘manhood’ by assisting women to fulfill their own Hypergamous imperatives are at the root of the “sexist” accusations on Bovy’s part. To her, it’s sexist not to plan one’s life according to women’s ‘correct’ sexual strategy.

Bovy actually shares a lot with contemporary Christianity. Ensaturated by feminine primacy, the modern church has made efforts to convince men that their servitude to women is both an article of faith and a prerequisite for responsible adulthood. In a reversal of traditional faith, men aren’t men until they’ve established themselves as being capable of providing for both themselves, but for women as well. Any man shirking this is shamed for “prolonging is adolescence”. All life priority and preparation is presumed to revolve around supporting a future wife irrespective of her own decisions and the results that come from them. The contemporary church is a Beta production institution as it is, but it’s interesting to see how both Bovy and modern Christianity align on the position of men’s proper roles.

This is an interesting parallel when you consider the lengths to which women have gone to emancipate themselves from (ostensibly) being dependent upon men’s influence and provisioning. Western culture has evolved around the strong independent woman stereotype, yet it’s sexist for men to emancipate themselves from the worst of women’s sexual strategy. Bovy’s perspective relies heavily on the Old Books rules set in the misguided belief that women are still beholden to roles of domesticity and repression in an era of triumphantly embraced Open Hypergamy.


As I mentioned in the opening, it’s important that we contrast this concern for Betas leaving the plantation with the blatant soft prostitution of the Sugar Babies dynamic. In the light of women’s naked opportunism, and with that opportunism’s materialistic purpose, it’s easy to see how patently false Bovy’s premise is here.

In an era where we develop successful apps to aid women in setting their price on a basic date, it’s easy to recognize Bovy’s disingenuousness. MGTOW and its Red Pill aware derivatives are really just practical, logical responses of men protecting themselves from an Open Hypergamy women are all too ready to educate them about. The End of Men is also the eventual end of women’s expectations of long term provisioning. If Bros aren’t interested in homes the old social contract is put in jeopardy and Open Hypergamy only serves to expedite this shift. Women at the Epiphany Phase looking for the “equal partner” that Sheryl Sandberg assures her sisters will be waiting for them find that men have declined to play along.

The old joke is that if women would have sex in a cardboard box men would never buy a house. The joke’s played out now because women are happy to fuck an Alpha in much less, and now they’re proud enough to tell Betas all about it.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

839 comments on “Are You Experienced?

  1. Really good stuff again. I’ve always liked your tweets and comments on other sites, but didn’t find the time to read your blog much. I tend toward snark in my own writings, but appreciate that this and the last couple posts of yours were awesome, and the commenters here are, by and large, great, too.

  2. Y’know what really gets broads like Bovy all riled up? Wanna know what gets her panties all twisted up, in my opinion?

    She can get a man’s attention, maybe hissperm, and then use that to take his money, his car, his job, his house, his profession, reputation, etc. pretty much most of his life but:

    She can’t take a man’s experiences away from him.

    That’s a fact. Learning of any kind can’t be taken away from a man.

    IMO that’s what really bugs her. That there’s some thing in a man’s life that a woman like her can’t reach out, touch, seize, take control of and rip away from him.

    The ironic part: I have listened to more than one Millennial woman who is basically into “collecting experiences” as opposed to accumulating stuff. So it could in part be a generational thing. Given the way their GenX and even Boomer parents have lost “stuff” in the last 10 years between housing bust, stock market crash, etc. it’s not a deep mystery.

    PS: An excellent bookend to the “I’m no gold digger!” Sugar Baby posting.

  3. As a 25 year old, I deeply thank you Rollo. Your blog is the glass of juice with which I swallow my dose of the redpill. Thank-you Rollo, for your insights, for these perspectives.

  4. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

    Women want male resources. Even a thousand of years of feminism would never change that. Suddenly the men they could take advantage off are waking up to these realities.

    What mgtow have done very well over the years is offer pragmatism with financial reasons as to why this is not a good idea. Whether you are alpha or beta a man can see that marriage is a bad deal for men. This makes a man try to look after himself by basically applying logic to the situation.

    Unfortunately marriage makes no rational sense for any modern man.

  5. Rollo,
    Thanks for the book recommendation. I’m familiar with Robert Greens books and A Billion Wicked Thoughts through TRM and I’d be interested in other books that have influenced you. Game and non game related.


    – Posted in sugar babies

  6. If the sugar baby thing spreads, rich betas may like it at first but I think there’s a question they won’t be able to avoid. It was mentioned by Illimitable Man and Black Label Logic that they are selling an illusion of exclusivity. The prostitute makes no illusion. The feeling of they’ll do it with anybody comes as part of it. And that’s what the sugar babies have to tell themselves and their critics about why they’re above prostitution.
    But the more tactics get switch the more tactics can become easily recognized. So at some point, the sugar baby claim of they don’t do this with just anybody who pays, is going to be questioned with, then why don’t they desire the sugar daddy if there was something that set him apart?

    Hey Rollo, think your love for picking this kind of subject matter apart is related to your love of fencing?

  7. Anonymous Reader
    July 18th, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    Given the way their GenX and even Boomer parents have lost “stuff” in the last 10 years between housing bust, stock market crash, etc. it’s not a deep mystery.

    The stuff didn’t go away. Its money value just declined. A suggested cure for that:

    A Different View Of Economics

  8. Open Hypergamy means the end of committed relationships as we know it down the road-including marriage.

    Plates my age and younger have so many orbiters being committed to one guy would actually hurt them: as then they’d have to accept favors and money from mainly that singular dude. Between the government, family(such as enabling Beta fathers) , and orbiters female provisioning needs today are met and then some without the need for a marriage license.

    On the flip side, bluepill conditioning is so entrenched today it’s blatant misogyny now to go Dutch on dates, unless doing so was Her Idea. In fact any male action taken in a relationship which disagrees with what She Wants is misogyny . Being a bachelor in corporate America today is akin to being an openly Gay man in the 1950s.

    Unmarried? Successful? Hmmm.
    Something must be wrong with this individual. He refuses to subsidize a woman with his wealth!

    This social norm against bachelorhood and experiences thereof makes perfect sense . In an environment where marriage is socially and legally obsolete, there has to be some other medium of assuring female resource security.
    Rather then a specific license which requires a singular man willingly agree to being exploited via the arduous process of dating->engagement-> marriage , the Hypergamous Directive is better served with more covert coercion.

    The goal now is not just to ensure Beta Bob is ready when she’s 28+. The end game is making sure Beta Bob stands by her side from puberty to death as an orbiter expecting literally nothing in return, and to shame any man who’d dare think for himself long enough to decide otherwise.

    From the female perspective it’s a wicked smart plan. Why settle for just One Exclusive Servant (marriage) when nearly Every Man in Society is your servant ( bluepill conditioning against bachelorhood)?
    A modern woman can indulge in banging criminals and Chads her entire life, and no matter what happens an army of programmed Bluepill robots stands ready to save her.

  9. Rollo, your last paragraph is devastating in its truth: Phoebe wrote a New Republic piece in February, “What Straight Women Want,” that I imagine she saw as insightful and original. Direct quote: “Unless a woman is very clear that she’s just looking for something casual, and not open even to the possibility of something serious developing, ‘looking at guys’ reads as ‘looking for the status that comes from male attention or commitment.’ Add to that the further blurriness between women’s opposite-gender attraction and female beauty. Our society understands female desire as the desire to be thought beautiful by a high-status dude. While I’m sure there are cases of that around, there’s also the thing where a really hot guy gets on a subway car and damn. And “hot,” in this understanding, isn’t a euphemism for saying that the man looks like he holds a steady job.”

    She honestly sounds annoyed that men assume she and other women might be interested in a long-term relationship and not just a quick fuck with the hot guy on the train. In a refreshing departure from bemoaning men who objectify and degrade women as sluts, she now depicts them here as clueless, entitled and presumptuous for thinking the opposite. You really can’t win–and you’re a mysogynist either way, probably.

    Note that in “Bros Before Homes,” she ducks any examples where the experience-pursuing men don’t rely on women for support in some way. I guess it would come off as too shrill to begrudge men their freedom to make their own choices, using their own money, on their own time? She sounds unpleasant, at any rate, and resentful of men in general.

  10. ‘When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.”

    “This is an interesting parallel when you consider the lengths to which women have gone to emancipate themselves from (ostensibly) being dependent upon men’s influence and provisioning. Western culture has evolved around the strong independent woman stereotype, yet it’s sexist for men to emancipate themselves from the worst of women’s sexual strategy”

    RP gold. Whenever a woman tries to define what it is to be a man, then the opposite is usually true and you have to uncover her selfish motivation for making a definition of masculinity to exploit you.

    When the men leave the plantation the women have several choices; harpy complaining and shaming to bring the male-nest slaves back, to say nothing and weave another web to lure in the next beta-fool, or to follow him.

  11. This strikes me as a classic “having your cake and eating it too” situation, wherein the feminine imperative wants to enact their Sandberg plan, yet have the same thing their grandmothers had, namely a freedom from responsibilities and self-provisioning.

    The strong independent woman does not exist, what exists is a woman who wants to demonstrate her self governance through 10 – 15 years of career-chasing, going through 500 miles of Mr. Right, and then wants a dutiful beta to swoop in, preferably with a house already set up, so she can be knocked up as quickly as possible and be back to work after the weekend.

    It is the ultimate manifestation of “having it all”.

    On the male side of things, the marriage deal with these women is getting exceedingly raw. They want to get married in their early to late thirties, after their appearance has taken a hammering from 15 years or so of partying and the 500 miles of Mr. Right, a large portion of marriages end in divorce, in which case the house and child support usually goes to the woman.

    I know many men who elect to get married because they have a traditional view of how they want their life to be, they want the white picket fence, and 2.5 kids, however they would be better off seeking out a woman 5 – 15 years their junior for such an endeavor, in an attempt to secure a solid deal for themselves.

    Men cannot be blamed or shamed for electing to say no to a deal that involves marrying a woman that clearly has a history of extreme selfishness.

  12. The ultimate beneficiaries to much of this hypocritical f*ckery by women will be cats.

    Lots and lots and lots of cats.

  13. @bart

    It can be easy to assume women love the idea of fucking you because you look hot. Since you’re a man and that’s how YOU work.

    However, believe it or not, the visual arousal that women experience of a virile, strong-looking man is predicated upon the paradigm of utility he has for her.

    She doesn’t want to fuck you cuz you have muscles. Although the elevated T levels help. She wants to fuck you because you’re “a hot man”.

    Her female mind has just the place to put you. But you are always placed. Always of use, always of service. It’s just that guy gets to trigger her mind to use him for sex.

    The idea of a woman liking a guy cuz he’s “hot” is yet another attempt of men to try to reconcile the fact that men and women work differently.

    That’s where the blue pill “alpha” comes from. It’s where captain save a hoe comes from. It’s where “Hero Training” comes from.

    It’s hard to know the difference because men come to the Red Pill looking for a way to heal their nuts after a bad experience with a woman. So you sort of forget the sophomoric way guys seek out sex and don’t ever learn how to get it from the women they want, wrt to their own individual circumstances.

  14. ” . . . the visual arousal that women experience of a virile, strong-looking man is predicated upon the paradigm of utility he has for her.”

    A man can best assess the looks of a woman while she is sleeping.
    A woman can best assess the looks of a man while he is chopping wood.

  15. Rollo
    I’m been training all aspects of myself to become alpha and work on asserting the beta by putting it in it’s place.

    Thanks for caring because it’s so true and real and in this day and age dangerous.

  16. MGTOW is just a protest against the new marriage dynamics from feminists corrupting the legal system. There is no deep profound meaning of male/female values or needs beyond that.

    The fact that we have a democracy where women can consistently outvote men to give themselves more rights and privileges is the driving factor. I would submit that some event(s) would have to occur that challenges the legitimacy of universal suffrage for anything to really change.

    Most successful civilizations have made the wise determination that since it is men that must defend a society with their lives, perhaps they are in the best position to select the leadership to defend a society and its values.

  17. I sit in a coffee shop as I read this. A couple walk in. The woman does the ordering. She reaches into her boyfriends pocket and pulls out his wallet. She gets a credit card out and shows it to him as she mouths, “This one?”. She pays for the drinks and gives him his wallet back as she tells the dude she is going to go talk to dude #2. Dude #1 dutifully waits for the drinks. After the drinks are ready he stands there and waits for the woman to finish her conversation with dude #2 and then they leave.

    MGTOW has a long way to go before it affects anything.

  18. “Perhaps that makes it more radical than anything else — with its tasteful design and young, hip founder, Ohlala suggests a world in which there’s no “kind of woman” who sells her time and affection, because every woman could be that kind of woman.”

    That new dating app… Wow… Nice. Yeah this is exactly what I was talking about in the previous thread when I talking about BB != sex being normalized. The FI is literally going to self destruct. lol… Could you think of a more fitting end to a feminized era? The rationalizations are going to be HILARIOUS. I can’t wait.

  19. “There are many here among us
    Who feel that life is but a joke
    But you and I we’ve been through that
    And this is not our fate
    So let us not talk falsely now
    The hour’s getting late.”

    – Jimi Hendrix, “All along the watchtower”

    Males bond in a manner that a woman cannot emulate nor participate; that pisses them off to no end.

  20. “The Duchess of Cambridge’s younger sister Pippa Middleton and hedge fund manager James Matthews have announced their engagement. …Matthews got down on one knee while they were visiting the picturesque Lake District and proposed to the 32-year-old Middleton.”

    Post-wall women are still marrying beta bucks, only people living a bubble think this changing

  21. “It’s also that the very idea of experiences mattering more than things is a way of valorizing the stereotypically masculine.”

    Oh NO.

    ” “While men are conditioned to dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas and long nights of hilarity—”

    Fair enough, that narrative does exist. Though only really for men under 25, after that you’re a man child (if beta), or a ‘free spirit’ (if alpha) – a good thing but an aberration not to be aspired to by other (beta) men.

    “….women are now encouraged to find deep fulfilment in staying home to origami our pants,” she wrote.”

    WHO IS DOING THIS I’m genuinely curious if she has a source in mind or if this is just dramaticising her indignant feelz

    I speculate that she envies men’s adventurous nature. She’s been told that she SHOULD value non-materialistic and meaningful and adventurous things but just can’t get her GUT behind it. She’s motivated by expensive things and praise instead, the things that help her feel secure – basically status.

    The female id always bases its feeling of baseline security on status. And baseline security is the primary metric for whether things are ‘good’ to her or not.

    Typing on a phone now so illustrative story later.

  22. @ Anon Reader:

    “She can’t take a man’s experiences away from him. ”

    That’s not what pisses off women like Bovy.

    What pisses them off is that these men aren’t lining up like good little slaves, willingly accepting their chains and fetters.

  23. “Post-wall women are still marrying beta bucks, only people living a bubble think this changing”

    I wouldn’t be so cut and dry. A slow change is still a change.
    But I will say that option will never go a way. Or maybe I should say those type of men will always be around. Just not so many.
    There will need to be a change in the platforms that women have to keep delivering the propaganda. Or there will need to be more platforms where men will call out the crap. Human nature to start believing a message you hear over and over. Doubtful women will ever tire of the celebrity news shows that salivate over stories like Kate Middleton, so there can be a change in the avenues that men speak up on what Kate Middleton is all about.
    Self publishing a book would not have been thought of as so feasible not too long ago. And look what Rollo was able to do.

  24. “if women would have sex in a cardboard box men would never buy a house.”

    mortgage means “death grip”. fuck the bankers.

    deep down I knew I never wanted to play house. I didn’t want from my wife what I already had from my mother growing up (except of course the cooking) and doing maintenance with my father (cutting grass, painting, repairs, upgrades, etc.) was never fulfilling to me.

    I appreciate having had a nice roof over my head when I was a kid, but things are different now.

    when my wife and I were just fuckbuddies, I took her out on the road. I didn’t know it then, but when I look back on it, I was testing her. will she not just tolerate sleeping in a tent or a car, but actually enjoy it? will she be pleasant not having all her luxuries? will I want to fuck her after she hasn’t showered or put on make up for a few days? will she find ways to make me comfortable, even though she has limited resources?

    I found out that she will fuck in a tent, in a car, outside, pretty much anywhere. she’ll suck my sweaty cock after a day of hiking. she’s happy to live out of a car for weeks at a time and actually dreads coming back to householder life.

    being outside feels so good. a guy can get everything he needs to live very comfortably on the road for a few grand. most of it will fit in a pack he can carry on his back that won’t weigh much more than fifty pounds.

    if minimalist is your thing, there are hot chicks out there that are into it too.

    I will never sign the death grip. fuck the bankers.

  25. All your posts to me come down to this: a single, mental point of origin originating with yourself. I don’t think this has to preclude a partnership with a woman. If a woman is willing to accept that you will always act in your best interest (and presumably she believes that you acting in your best interest will somehow benefit her), then respect that she has faith in you and pursue a partnership. If you get tired of her, move on.

    Most girls these days seem to try to assert their independence by going toe to toe with you. Whether it be on where to eat, what to watch, who drives, etc. Most of these girls (in my experience) utterly fail when taking the initiative in an attempt to prove themselves. These are girls you discard quickly. If a woman is willing to submit to you and she offers you something in the way of prestige or respect from others, that is a rare find.

    I did grow up in a Christian environment in a very Beta-conditioned culture, and perhaps this is me protecting some pretty lies I learned as a youngster, but I do believe in the strength of a spiritual union between two people. I am no longer a Christian, but I do believe that there are merits to a stable partnership with a woman. Especially if that woman makes sacrifices herself in order that you may grow fully as a man.

    If a woman allows you to live in such a way, why not keep yourself in check with the understanding that good women are hard to find? Why not forgo the biological impetus within us to spread our seed as far and wide as possible. Despite my firm beliefs in the justification of actions based on biological impulses, there is something else beyond that that each of us strives for. I’m not saying you’ll find that in a woman. I’m saying you’ll find that in the combination of all things in your life. Work, play, women, a woman, children, books, art, etc.

    I think a lot of people will take the above post with an arrogant, “Yeah, I’m gonna do what the fuck I want” aggression that rivals what women do when they try to assert their independence. It is over-compensatation with that attitude. If it flows naturally from you, then do it. But if you are doing it prove a point… You’re better off cultivating what skills you already have and arrogantly defying the status quo. There is subtlety to all of this. Let’s not get too caught up in the specifics of what living your life ‘pro-growth’ and ‘for yourself’ means.

  26. @ Rollo
    I started thinking that peeling back layers to interpersonal dynamics and hidden motivations might be related to it. After all, in fencing you can’t just swing a foil and hack away at the opponent. You’ll work against yourself. Accuracy of touch vs. volume of applied power, in a way.
    Like there’s stuff women will do and there’s stuff women actually may not be able to keep from doing. Need to and can look into why instead of just relegating to women are bitches.
    Got any other interest? Like maybe archery, racing (especially the development side to it), maybe something creative like hand blown glass.

  27. “mortgage means “death grip”.”

    I don’t have a mortgage. I am still in a death grip of debt to the tune of several thousand a year (welcome to NY) as long as I have the house. The Lord demands his land rent.

    Housing is not an investment, it’s an expense. Spend your money in the way that best suits the way you live. If I worked in a cubicle and didn’t make things there’s no way I would want to be saddled with a house, not even one that was paid for.

    And if you need a house, make it as small as possible in a location where the land rents are as small as possible. Keep your obligations low and your options high, to the point where you can just walk away without much distress if you feel you need to.

    Sunk cost happens. Get used to the idea, don’t look back and keep moving forward.

  28. “I think a lot of people will take the above post with an arrogant, “Yeah, I’m gonna do what the fuck I want” aggression that rivals what women do”

    Nope. But they’ll respond.
    Such as, the reason why you need to make you as your mental point of origin is because women don’t stick around unless she sees some benefit to her. You don’t presume that if that is how they are.
    Others with more time to comment may speak on a woman allowing you to live in such a way and about good women being hard to find keeping you in check.

  29. @Virgil Hunt: “. . . perhaps this is me protecting some pretty lies I learned as a youngster . . .”

    It is.

    “I do believe that there are merits to a stable partnership with a woman.”

    Which is not the same thing at all as a “spiritual union.” You would be advised to give some thought to the meaning of “stable” as well. A stable bicycle is always falling over. If it isn’t, it’s unrideable.

  30. Rollo wrote: “”What worries the representatives of the Feminine Imperative is that Betas might see the pragmatism in following the example of men who put themselves first and eschew the trappings of building their lives around the materialism women seek when their looks fade and their need for men’s resource security is a better prospect than having to compete for men with their sisters.””

    This is why some of the biggest shit tests of today’s women I hear are:

    “Why haven’t you called? At least be a man about it…”

    “I thought you were more of a man….”

    My go to response when I do chose to respond is: “Nahhhhhhhh”

    Women immediately decide whether or not they’re going to bang a guy.

    I number closed a girl at a party. I texted her the next day: “hey trouble maker let’s meet up”

    She was keen…but slower to respond although when she did, she made it clear she was busy but would try to meet up next week.

    Her FB profile came up on my ‘people you may know” section so I checked it out. It stated she was “in a relationship” with some nice, shy, beta-looking guy.

    Did she tell me that? No. Did she in any way discourage my advances or suggestions to meet up? No.

    Hypergamy can be your friend if you recognize it and know how to manage it.

  31. Meet Virgil Hunt. My more literate alter ego.

    Thanks for writing out what I have been spastically trying to imply in comments over the past 18 months.

    Not as a recommendation for just any old man, but perhaps an option/fork in the road. Like something that Julien from RSD would do to balance his dopamine infusions.

  32. The paragraph of the year:

    The old joke is that if women would have sex in a cardboard box men would never buy a house. The joke’s played out now because women are happy to fuck an Alpha in much less, and now they’re proud enough to tell Betas all about it.

    Brings up the question again: What is a man to tell his daughter? If Alpha; the men capable of exciting genuine desire in women is as rare as 10% of the male population: Then “settling down” means “settling for” (a second, third, fourth best choice, or worse) in 90% of the cases for the girl. The bees are lucky: their workers do not have a dick.

  33. @wala

    “Why haven’t you called? At least be a man about it…”

    This is a comfort test and you can’t just go, “Actually, I’m thinking about trans-gendering.” You have to actually provide some comfort like, “You’re an exotic bird and if I spent a lot of time talking with you, you’d become common and boring. I want to keep you exotic.

  34. Most girls these days seem to try to assert their independence

    How mannish. Women who try to become men make themselves into second-rate women and third-rate men.

  35. @Virgil & SJF, I’m beginning to see variation in the ways MGTOW is expressed these days. There are the hardline extremes who go monk or VolCel and occupy themselves with whatever passes for “higher aspirations” and then there are guys like Niko who still engage with women, the Red Pill and Game but only on their own terms. I see a lot more married men adopting this mindset too; the take it or leave it self-prioritization of going their own way and if their marriage becomes a casualty of that then so be it.

    I made the case that if you are Red Pill aware there comes a point where you have no choice but to be MGTOW to some degree since you are effectively cut away from the Blue Pill existence. You can’t say you didn’t know better, so to some effect unplugging sets you apart from following the Blue Pill script – you must go your own way with a new awareness or go into denial.

  36. then there are guys like Niko who still engage with women, the Red Pill and Game but only on their own terms. I see a lot more married men adopting this mindset too;

    Hmmm pursuing The Platinum Rule [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it]?

  37. From the 1986 Rodney Dangerfield classic Back to School:
    ” Women today, they only think of themselves. When Vanessa and I would have sex, she used to scream out her own name.”

  38. From personal experience: if a man has children with a woman, but isn’t married to her and is clear that he’ll never marry her, but they’re nonetheless living together and raising their children together, the Hypergamy loses a great deal of its power. She may still have been a slut, but she has to face, every day of her new life, the fact that her man may tell her to leave, at which point she won’t have the house, or the car, or the refrigerator full of food, or most important of all any form of alimony or spousal support.

    Paying her own bills while raising her children is a shocking idea to women raised under open hypergamy. She might get child support, but that’s not enough to maintain her lifestyle and she knows it.

    And any man that refuses to marry the mother of his children can’t look completely like a hopeless Beta. There’s that mystery: “Why won’t he marry me?”

    So, while there aren’t really any good women out there anymore, a Man can make due with what he has, if he follows the rules that exist to help him. If Marriage is a tool to punish Men for not supporting women, then don’t get married. You can still have children and raise them together, so long as you have the backbone to NOT-give her anything that she wants.

    Women aren’t Men. She’ll be happier if you leave her no option but to do what you want her to do.

  39. I love being one of the guys this chick is whining about. I don’t care about stuff and the stuff that I do have is about the experiences I have with them.

    Apparently, Bovy’s never read Lean In or even watched a Disney princess movie in the last 50 years.

    Or browsed her sisters’ dating profiles, for that matter. Go look at a few and get back to me on how women aren’t getting the same message. I suspect her ire comes from the fact that if EVERYONE is doing it, nobody will have a house to live in when the time comes. Can’t put that responsibility on the girls though, shitlord.

    Experience is the source of a genuine Amused Mastery and a man’s self-serving experience is usually a prime indicator of an Alpha mindset.

    Experience has taught me that the more a woman is wagging her finger and clucking at me for doing something, the more likely I’m on the right track to getting laid. The less I apologize for offending a woman, the more likely she can’t get enough of me.

    In an amusing related story, was sitting at a bar a couple weeks back. Next to me was a black woman, mid 30s, a little overweight, was probably never more than a 5 at her peak, and other side of her was another dude. We all are discussing books and they both kind of stare dumbfounded as I make a nuanced point about the difference in how authoritarianism worked in 1984 vs. A Brave New World. (SJF would also be happy to know I pushed them both to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance) Other dude heads out, clearly a feeling a little out of his league. Chick continues to ask about things in my life.

    She finds I’m minimalist about to live a couple years on the road, a martial artist, a motorcyclist, scuba diver, snow skier, rock climber, runner, photographer, programmer, able to discuss any topic she brings up with great depth and considered opinion, and very funny too boot. Another dude sits down, he and I get on the subject of Brexit and the economic implications of it and she just laughs with the realization that yes I’m not full of shit about any of it and no she doesn’t have a chance in hell with me. Her final question though as she pays her tab and stands up, “Can any of your girlfriends actually keep up with you?”

    “Nope, and I’m perfectly fine with that!” I say, genuinely meaning it.

    She laughed as she walked away.

    Experience is the source of Amused Mastery, indeed.

  40. ” . . . pursuing The Platinum Rule . . .?”

    With the addendum to think carefully about doing something that reduces your future options.

    MGTOW is a strategy, not a tactic.

  41. Great article. Watching society unfold rough a red pill lense is so often completely logical, hilarious and bizarre at the same time lol.

    „ When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.“

    This is key and already VERY observable where I live. Even the most blue-pill-sucked-in-betaized men I know are refusing marriage-by-default now. Some fine survival instict comes through all the social programming and whispers to them: Don’t do it. Look around. It’s insane. It’s not going to work. Your long time „relationship“ is boring, monotone and frustrating already at best, a living nightmare at worst.

    Besides Phoebe Maltz Bovys obvious ignorance of just how many young single women are living exactly the lifestyle she is condemning as „stereotypically male“ here, like hiking across the world and shit, partying it up at various beaches, rejecting the corporate rat race while, say, working part time as a cuba-dive-instructor in Australia and avoid being „tied down“ as long as possible – on a positive note and in the best red-pill-intergender-complementary-perspective imaginable:

    It’s even possible to live the evil „Bros before Homes“ lifestyle together as a couple. I know (yes, even married) couples in my social circle who quit their jobs and traveled whole continents together, for years at times in some cases.

    Or like these guys whose video scribblerg (I believe) linked some time ago

    Now is this woman some poor victim who got sucked into her partners Peter-Pan-complex fueld Bros-before-Homes-hedonism, suffering along his own-mental-point-of-origin-egotism?

    Judge for yourself:

  42. @ Rollo

    “I see a lot more married men adopting this mindset too”

    I worked really, really hard at exactly that for the last three years. My current red pill mindset is 180 degrees different from what it was back then.

    That mindset is unbounded and it’s not very scary now (it was along the way). Like Bill Kilgore said “it smells like victory”.

    “….you must go your own way with a new awareness Acceptance or go into denial regress into stages of Grief–Denial,Anger, Bargaining or Depression.”

  43. @Trent Lane
    It appears the girl and her boyfriend are moochers who currently live off the donations some idiots give them through Patreon. I wonder how much they’d get if she wasn’t a total hottie who wore a bikini most of the time.

  44. It appears the girl and her boyfriend are moochers who currently live off the donations some idiots give them through Patreon

    Yeah, so?
    People are living vicariously through them. No coercion involved.

    For centuries, people have paid other people to create objects of art – paintings, sculpture, mosaics, weavings, pieces of wood, etc. and so forth.

    People have also paid others to entertain them with music, with stories either told with words or told with words on paper or told with words and music, etc. Writers, actors, playwrights, opera singers, etc.

    Those other people are called “artists”. Some people also call them “moochers”, true. Bad art is not worth messing with, as a rule.
    Not everyone is equipped to paint nice landscapes, not everyone is able to see the figure in a piece of stone, not everyone can lay out a pleasing mosaic, and not everyone is up to boat life.

    It looks to me that thanks to near universal connectivity, we are entering a world where some people’s lives, their experiences, are their “art”.

    So the girl and her boyfriend are artists in a sense, their boat life is their art, and others are willing to support them in that art. The couple do the hard work of living boat life. The supporters “collect experiences” by proxy from their cushy urban life.

    Looks like win-win to me, an adaptation to the modern world.

  45. :

    “She can’t take a man’s experiences away from him. ”

    That’s not what pisses off women like Bovy.
    What pisses them off is that these men aren’t lining up like good little slaves, willingly accepting their chains and fetters.

    Yeah, I agree and I got that part, but re-read her screed. It looks to me that she takes the whole “collect experiences” thing personally, really personally. Not just the “that money could have gone towards someting useful“, either.

    It’s like Aunt Polly wants to control Huck Finn not just for his own good, but to keep him from having “too much fun”, in a way.

    I really think she envies those men, and wishes she could take there experiences from them – along with everything else, of course.

  46. Are you seriously comparing the youtube videos of bikini girl to the works of Mozart or Michelangelo?

    Voyeurism? Mild titillation? Yes.

    Art, which is supposed to ennoble the soul? Never.

  47. In the church it’s a really sad state of affairs. For anyone seriously listening to the leadership in the church will become a AFC hard core beta in time. It’s really sad.

  48. M. Simon
    The stuff didn’t go away. Its money value just declined.

    Look, just because you apparently have never gone through “Parents bought too much house near the top of the market, value dropped, mortage went upside down, one parent’s hours got cut and the bank foreclosed so everyone had to move to a smaller, crummier house” it does not follow that others did not. Sometimes you really come across as totally, solipsistically, tone deaf.

    Sure, some millennials are pretty casual about money. But some others I know are deathly afraid of any sort of debt, because they personally saw “stuff go away” – cars towed away by repo men, houses taken away by foreclosure, nice phones replaced with much simpler ones, furniture taken away, big TV sets taken away…liquidation of assets to service debt can be an ugly process. Got it, now?

  49. @Leiff, kfg

    And so we’ve come full circle to Sugar Babies lol.

    Point being, they are doing as a couple what Phoebe Maltz Bovy observes as “stereotypically male aspiration not to be “tied down”.

    And just how many Female Travel Blogs are out there, documenting exactly this lifestyle?

    “My name is Kate McCulley and I travel the world for a living.”

    “GRRRLTRAVELER is a travel survival and solo travel site inspiring others to find their GRRR for travel. It’s about finding empowerment as a traveler by navigating cultural diversity while experiencing the bizarre, foreign, frightening and often times, funny.”

    “I’m a mid-lifer who quit a growing corporate career to reawaken my passions — and forge a life set by my own rules.”

    “Hi! I’m Rachel Jones, an American who left a career in nursing to live on the beaches of Goa over two years ago.”

    “I’m Yara, a vagabond at heart who left Medicine college behind to travel the world on my own terms…”


    … and on and on and on. Tho the wording sounds a bit different describing what they are doing compared to the “today’s macho minimalism” of “Bros Before Homes” lol:

    “Travel Blogs by Women show us that we can conquer the world, get lost in its beauty, and find ourselves wherever our feet (or passport) may take us.
    The travel blogs by women we have here will inspire you to take that first step into leaving your dreary life and discovering the world.”


    On a personal note and to avoid the typical manosphere rant a la these-evil-bitches-oh-the-double-standard, I think it’s totally cool and propz to anybody, male or female, or male AND female, who manages to travel the world like these people do. If that’s what you want to do and where you find your happiness. Propz.

    Just don’t tell us that’s some stereotypically male macho minimalism of today with all these women doing exactly what you blame men for doing.

  50. @Andy: Hilarious picture but it is more like “My other cheated on her soon-to-be husband, he still married her, and I and a group of other men created a religion out of it”.

  51. Insightful. Cutting. Devastating. Brilliant. This is the kind of stuff I come to TRM for. This is worth reading five times.

  52. “Society continues to associate women with the home and the material, men with the outside and experiences.”

    A major part of this association, never mentioned in the “article”, is children… Children are the anchor that tie the mother and by extension the father to the home…

    Enjoyed the clip of the sailing couple… and Fleezer’s story of taking his wife on the road… All this will grind to a stop once kids come along… that whole thing about long gestation period and slow development and all… expensive…

  53. back in the day, when I was a neophyte, I could drink just about anything. These days, I know exactly what I like and what I don’t.

    A wine habit is waaaaaay more expensive than a coke habit…

  54. Actually most of what the guy in the original article ( says is completely sensible in his position.

    Except this part:

    “Yes, there are drawbacks to living at home. My folks are devout Christians, and they don’t condone sex before marriage. I’ve had girls over, but they rarely stay the night. If they do, my mom makes them sleep in the basement, and she keeps one eye open all night. Do they love when I come home at four in the morning? No. But they get over it. To make it work, my date and I will go to a hotel or her place, or wait until my parents go out.”


    If he’d find some cheap but cozy appartement to rent while cutting back some of the more senseless flashy luxury like the $200 winebottles, this sounds like a rather perfect lifestyle for a single man in 2016.

  55. @Anonymous Reader:

    I agree with your comment above. What’s primal about men is our unfettered energy, our ability to take off and follow the road of our dreams to wherever it leads. And ironically, that energy is simultaneously attractive AND repellent to the female mindset. They envy that freedom and want it for themselves, and the whiff of danger and excitement gets them aroused. Yet, it’s also the kind of energy that needs to be contained, channeled and eventually broken, like a thoroughbred stallion harnessed to a junk wagon. It’s the contempt leveled at Beta men for falling for the con, while continuing to extract the resources that justify their presence.

    Message; stay wild.

    “Males bond in a manner that a woman cannot emulate nor participate; that pisses them off to no end.” Exactly. The logic is you can’t emulate it, appropriate it or infiltrate it, you need to kill it. And it’s the act of innate male resistance to that, the casual refusal to let them into the male experience, that gets their panties bunched.

    Excellent article, as always.

  56. Are you seriously comparing the youtube videos of bikini girl to the works of Mozart or Michelangelo?

    Nah. Nice work on the fallacy, though.

    Voyeurism? Mild titillation? Yes.
    Art, which is supposed to ennoble the soul? Never.

    Suppose I offer you a cup of tea. Am I engaged in art, or not?

  57. @Anonymous Reader

    Some of these people are ducking the daily grind or at least look that way to the “rest of us”.

    Some of these people see others on youtube getting paid to be themselves and it makes them a little pissed.

    “why is that faggot getting to live a better life than me?” They wonder. While ignoring that the people on these channels still have flaws and often are famous BECAUSE of them. While ignoring that it’s the same daily grind, just it takes a new form they are unaccustomed to.


    No need to be Jelly. Each of those uploaders submit themselves to the Youtube overlords and completely open up their lives to scrutiny and accountability to their fans. NO MORE racist comedy, or else be relegated to the lower rungs of society. You wanna be funny? You gotta do it without polarizing the client base. You wanna be talented? Ya better be easy to listen to also. Also if you’re interested in titillation, I recommend “My Rules Media” for videos of Cannonshots of Gummy Bears being deployed onto the asses of rather attractive bimbos shot in slow-motion.

  58. @Mr. Mustard – “The ultimate beneficiaries to much of this hypocritical f*ckery by women will be cats.Lots and lots and lots of cats.” Spot-fucking-on. Can we at least laugh about this?

    @Trent – Nice reference to the La Vagabonde nomadic sailing series on YouTube. I watch it like maybe some guys here watch the Bacholerette. I notice how the Rollie rarely surrenders his frame but is almost never overtly dominant. It’s a very interesting example of young people just running away from the world and for fuck’s sake, who can blame them?

  59. “Bros before homes”? Seriously, I thought this was another way to describe female open hypergamy, a polite way of saying AF/BB (at first glance)

    Bros being the alphas and homes being the betas. I guess the irony would be lost on them.

  60. “MGTOW has a long way to go before it affects anything.”

    All any man has to change is his own life.

  61. Also, putting the shoe on the other foot. What are we to say of fempowermed women getting “life experiences”? Who are they outsourcing their adult responsibilities to? Their future husbands who are expected to pick up their debts and their illegitimate children?

  62. Re: MiniFR – My HB9 plate got all bitchy and I recognized again that it was a comfort test. Complained that I don’t treat her like she’s special, and that fucking me is special for me.

    Let me be clear. From the neck down, she has virtually a perfect body. Natural D-cups, size zero, tiny waist, round little hips and ass. face has some good and bad angles, she keeps her hair long. So get it, sex with her at my age, 54, is clearly a treat. I’ve had this with one other woman, a soft sugar baby a couple of years back. I think both of the got off a little bit out of how much i enjoyed the sex with them and their bodies.

    It’s a balancing act, and this girl isn’t a soft sugar baby. But I realized she needed some comfort as @ASDGamer points out above. In fact my response was a copy of his, “It’s not that I don’t think you’re special, it’s that I find you so attractive that if I don’t control myself I’ll fall in love and you told me that wasn’t in the cards, that I we weren’t ever going to be BF/GF.”

    Worked like a dream. Resulted in even sweeter submission. I’m going to see her again soon, she may even come for a couple of day visit. Imagine that – 29yi HB8+ driving 180 miles to come visit me and have sex. Lol, fucking ridiculous.

    But yeah, @Rocket, YaReally is full of shit. The entire reason I have this plate is cuz of listening to YaReally, lol. His shit works in the field. Period. The mindset, the dynamics, the gambits, their behavior. It’s kind of amazing how textbook it all is.

    Fyi, I think the up and down is getting her even hotter for me, he he.

    Last. In the past, I would have lashed out at her for the way she came at me. It happened when she was dealing with a lot of other BS in her life, and she was already worked up. I would have told her she was acting out of the other stuff, been defensive, etc. No way I would have ever been calm and cool. I didn’t fold up, but I stayed neutral and tried to see it from her POV and then it snapped into view for me – she wanted to be told she was special to me. She wanted to feel special.

    Shame on me for not making her feel special at times. Seduction requires the jolt of romance and passion etc, and I was keeping it too cool. Great lesson learned.

    And another fantasy episode with a banging hottie on the way. Hmmm, nah, maybe I’ll just say fuck all that and go back to trying to Sugar Daddy girls, cuz, yeah, that’s much more rewarding.

    Fyi, I can’t figure out if she’s an 8 or a 9 cuz of the age. The body is still rocking, the breasts just starting to sag just a bit, more like a pout and still fantastic. Her face is really nice in some angles and weird in others. No cellulite, or flab, and a taught little round butt. She has long, brunette hair and sometimes it’s gorgeous and other times wild. When she dolls herself up, she’s model-quality, no doubt.

    Fyi, guys, I seduced her mind with my words. Like @SunWu mentioned above. Ya gotta really create a powerful narrative for a woman to be swept up in. A world to step into.

    Also spoke to my HB8 project but am slipping into mentoring with her and not enough of a sexual vibe. Will see her soon and escalate.

  63. And oh yeah, as far as this post goes, sure, spot on. But I just don’t give a fuck what some femcunt has to say anymore. Not that it doesn’t reflect a fucked culture, but yeah, I just don’t give a shit.

    That is some serious growth. The world is gonna do what it does. i’m gonna slay as much pussy and have as much fun and prosperity as I can in the meantime.

    Oh yeah, the son of the founder of The New Republic, who was its editor for like 20 years in the 30s/40s was an actual KGB agent, recruited during his time at Cambridge, as a number of English elite were. The rot of the left in our society goes so much deeper than most people will ever realize.

  64. Great post Rollo.

    The article by Bovy is exquisite tripe. It’s never a good look when broads attempt to shame a man for doing what he sees fit with his life. The fem-bias is completely transparent.

    As a male who encourages men to live a life that is gratifying, I still found some of the dude who was the subject of the article was saying as a little bit strange ( after following the link to his entry ). I still think he’s doing what he feels he needs to, and I am at a different station in life, but I will expand on my thoughts anyway.

    I fully get that life and the future for millenials is up in the air and topsy turvy on a multitude of fronts. Using the dude in the article as an example though, I don’t think it’s representative of most millennial men. This dude makes 130,000 bucks a year. He works hard. it seems, for his dough, and of course I support his right to spend his money however he sees fit, even if he decides to put 130 grand in a big pile and set it on fire. It’s his cash.

    But I do not understand what kind of example he wants to portray to other 30-ish men, if that is the idea behind his writing. I admit that part of my personal ( and this is only my PERSONAL opinion after all ) issue with some of what he’s said, is that his notions about ‘ owning stuff ‘ strikes me as odd when it concerns owning where you live. Plus, at his age I never dreamed of a six figure salary and the only people I personally knew that held that kind of asset were musicians and professional athletes.

    But I cosign his feeling concerning Living Your Life. The extravagant part, weddings or whatever in castles and all of that just tells me that the Money is a major part of his enjoyment. So, if dude was broke or earning a ‘ normal ‘ salary, what would he do? How would he approach life then?

    How many millenials will earn 6 figures in their early 30’s? In THIS economy?

    I’ve gone practically everywhere I’ve wanted to at this point in life, lol, but I’ve not had to spend like this guy does. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve blown up piles of cash having fun, but not as consistently as dude says he is doing. In my Baby Boomer head, that sounds insane on some level.

    The he’s talking about home ownership, and I get what he’s saying, but he has an opinion shaped by certain standards. Standards that most run of the mill people his age don’t have a shot at contending with, without becoming shackled in crushing debt. 600,000 dollar homes? Wtf???

    And he’s a pharmacist. Lol.

    Imo, men should buy a home to live in. It’s got nothing to do with a Family. That ideal just will not die. It pains me to hear men repeat that trope of house, wife, kids, dog…

    I bought my first home under different circumstances. Yes, I wanted a HOME ( not an apartment ) to raise my family, but I would’ve bought a home regardless. The ‘ family ‘ part only affected the size of the home I purchased. I paid for 85% of my first home in cash, and took out a loan, not a mortgage, to cover the rest. Paid off that 3 year loan in 18 months.

    I hate debt. It’s a necessary evil in life though…unless your making 130,000 while living at home. Good for him!!!!

    I bought my second home with proceeds from the sale of the first. I put the excess cash in some safe investments because you never know wtf is going to happen ( I even realized this at 31…).

    Lmao, so I’m torn between applauding this guy’s lifestyle, and cautioning guys with regular payscales and uncertainty to be a lot more cautious.

    It’s not about what everyone else is doing. It’s about you and what’s best for you. Delicious steaks are indeed delicious. I am a huge steak fan. And good wine is great. I’ve had expensive wines and they are very tasty. But watch your habits always. A 200 dollar bottle of wine is only worth that much because people like the guy in the article are willing to shell out 200 bucks for a bottle.

    It makes him feel a certain way, but it doesn’t actually raise him up in life.

    This goes back to what I always say about taking care of how you allow other people to influence you. Develop yourself and your sensibilities almost in isolation from others. It’s okay for you to figure out what YOU want and like on your own.

    And to my original point, I was able to do pretty much what I wanted without those funds. Didn’t have it like that. Still balled out. Lol. It is possible to have experiences without boatloads of cash.

    So where in the hell do I come down on all of this…..

    Fuck that noise that the Bovy chick is making, first and foremost. It’s because of people like her and the FI bullshit that forces me to double down on my support for this cash blowing guy. If he gets what he *thinks* he needs by going through money, then that’s his choice in the end, and me, the FI or anyone else has nothing to do with it.

    May his cash always flow long and hard.

  65. Has anyone ever tried to Game prostitutes (sugar babies, whatevah) by pitting them against each other? Using preselection, you should be able to get them to compete for your attention and this might result in some free sex and real desire.

  66. These posts are great. This one immediately brought to mind an interview I heard today on radio. BBC reporter (male) is speaking with Turkish intellectuals (his word not mine) about the fallout from the coup attempt in Turkey.

    Interviewee (woman, novelist, living in LONDON) is answering a question about what she fears in the aftermath, especially given that fellow intellectuals (university presidents) have been told to resign.

    After the usual litany one would expect to hear at this point, she adds that she also fears a “resurgence of masculinity”.

    I’ll bet.

  67. You all know I’m the unspoken champion of Hendrix. That’s why I felt compelled to post this.

    Anyway, beyond drunk right now. Home brew. Confirmed success because I’m seeing double, lmao. Shit.

    Well anyway folks….been a rough time lately. But a drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts. I don’t feel like the endless pursuit of pussy is forever. But temporary? Sure. Hitting up a few girls in a night and feeling the rush….important maybe for a guy my age, mid 20’s or so.

    Anyone know Stone Free by Hendrix?

    “a woman here, a woman there
    try to keep me in a plastic cage
    but they don’t realize
    it’s so easy to break
    oh, but sometimes I can feel my heart kinda
    runnin’ hot
    That’s when I got to move
    before I get caught”

    Stone Free. Check it out. Hendrix had some Blue Pill shit but it’s hard not to be Alpha when you’re the highest paid rock performer at the time.

    Anyway, love you all, been feeling torn between the Blue Pill and the community here. Been absent for a while. A mention of Hendrix will bring me back for sure though. Can’t help it, lol.

    And it feels so GOOD. Like to be wanted by multiple women. Blue Pill fantasies still going strong but when I’m drunk it’s like no holds bar and multiple women just feel fucking awesome. Part of the Experience.

    Plastic cage.

    Anyway, too drunk to write more rn. Cheers to everyone here, haven’t read the post yet Rollo but I know it’s killer, lol. Hanging on by a thread here.

  68. “When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.”

    And that’s where things will get interesting. What else can they do that isn’t already being done now, short of outright coercion?

    Of course, her article concerns a small minority of men – albeit big enough to cause dread.

    One thing she really missed is that for a lot of men in my generation it’s a bit of a moot point whether the man wants to be a dutiful provider and have a home. The job opportunities just aren’t there to make it happen. So it’s only natural a lot of betas are just out there “experiencing” life.

  69. Tip of the hat to you Rollo, for reading a complete article written by a girl.

    Every time I try that I get…. maybe 5 sentences in and think to myself, who gives a shit?… then I tap out

  70. Learning can be taken from a man

    LSD and a deep cycle marine battery, hammer to the head, car accident, various illnesses etc

    I know folks mean well when they say that but it’s utter bullshit and casually dismisses the brutality and randomness of life

  71. H/T on your Anniversary Rollo!

    Praise be Mrs. Tomassi. And congratulations on raising Bebe Tomassi well.

    And Thank You for turning my own personal battle ship around. Your red pill praxeology worked better for me than: Lynyrd Skinner’s Gimme back my Bullets: “And I drank enough whiskey to float a battleship around.”

    I’m another redemption (the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil) credit for you.

    Great work.

  72. Virgil Hunt
    July 19th, 2016 at 8:10 am

    I have had a spiritual union without female surrender for quite some time. I have been teaching her how to surrender and finally after the longest time it is having some effect. She is happier. So am I.

  73. SFC Ton
    July 19th, 2016 at 9:20 pm

    I take it that all you know about LSD has been learned from the popular press. But in a sense you are correct. If there are things you want to unlearn it helps. Tim Leary used it to help people unlearn alcoholism. To some effect.

  74. greatings from the tip of Africa,  the redpill is still very fresh in my veins, I see things so differently now that I feel reborn   apartheid as a political and cultural ideology was not defeated in 1994, with the election of Nelson Mandela it was replaced with neo-liberalism, to placate the black masses, the petty apartheid laws were dismantled and a black middle class created,   to give you guys and idea of what this actually means, desegregation in South African schools became official in the early 90s, I was born in 1991  fast forward 25 years and hypergamy runs unchecked in South Africa, afrikaneers are born and bred betas,their women are regarded the last frontier to be at all cost protected against the black man who stole their country from them. as a result the princess complex of a millenian afrikaans girls is monumental, don’t let those wankers at storm front fool you guys, the black man found him self in a completely different positions, being affordable some sort of upwards mobility and a middle class lifestyle, the price of pussy isn’t calculated in cows anymore  if a man wants to Mary a woman in South Africa 8/10 he will be required to pay a bridal price, my dad says he paid R6000 in 1993, now the standard amount is R25 000 if she has a basdard you have to pay for it too,   if you don’t have a decent job and a car in South Africa, then forget getting anything beyond a SMV-5, shit gents I could go on and on, but I think the best thing top do is bring the redpill to Africa, it’s needed like vacine  Rollo your an inspiration, permission to quote your extensively on my upcoming blog

    1. @alphahomosapien: from one African to another – the red pill or red pill thought was always part of Africa.
      Westernization has been vigorously stripping that away.
      We don’t have to ‘bring’ the red pill to Africa…we have to ‘bring it back’ brother.

          1. @alphahomosapien: not so sure about attractiveness bruh 😅…

            If you take colonization into account then standards of beauty are westernized.

            What about Asia, Latin America, north Africa, other parts of Africa?

            However, I do agree that the fatness pandemic is spreading here…fast.

            With all this body shaming and fat acceptance bullshit…coupled with profligate white-knighting and pedestalization of women and pussy…things are out of hand.

            Men, all over but especially in Africa and other developing economies need to be obstinate on standards and what they expect of women…

            Conversely this is why the elite, in the west and here in Africa, and, developing economies, fervently push for feminism and pro-F.I. politics and policies….

            In Kenya now for example, you will not believe how many financial & business programs have been rolled out for women – “Loans for women” “Loans for women entrepreneurs only” “Loans for women groups”….nothing for young men or business though 😌

            But back to what you wee saying…beautiful, attractive women are all over this planet even here in Africa…
            Thing is men need to stop compromising with the F.I. and pedestalization.

          2. Not sure about Kenya but there are certain aspects of south African tribal culture that has been complety Co opted by the feminine imperative, not sure if you have ever heard of lobola, that’s what we call bridal price over here, 90% of every black girl expects her bf to fork out a few thousand to be able to marry her, even the ones that claim their are feminist, this lobola has now become a status symbol, for the girl it’s financial actualisation if her SMV… For the beta in waiting it’s a sign that they are affluent enough to afford their woman’s bridal price, it goes with out saying that the rate of divorce it’s as bad here as in most developed countries, there is zero incentive as a young man to get married in this country, your right, the red pill needs to come back, but it must be re engineered to confront neo-liberal comodification of love that affects us

          3. It’s the same thing here bro!
            I’m guessing most urbanised, and thus to an extent westernized, African cities are like this…
            “Sponsor” (‘Blesser’ in S.A.) & “Socialite” (read sponsored THOT) are now common words in the public lexicon.
            Yes, I’m familiar with lobola…my younger brothers went to uni in S.A. Jozi, Durban, and now P.E.
            We have ‘lobola’ here too…it’s just called dowry.
            It hasn’t reached that level here though women expect lavish weddings.
            It doesn’t help that they watch all these wedding reality tv shows constantly.

            Famous women go on social media tangents, writing “Dear future husband” letters dictating what they require…and thirsty idiots oblige…

            You can find girls/women who have been raised to be marriageable(?)…but F.I. conditioning is palatable, that goes for feminism boilerplate too. If a girl/woman has been educated anytime after the 80s…expect it.

            I agree on what you say about the red pill…not so much as to reengineer but more to reinstate in a context-sensitive perspective…
            Men need to spend more time with boys, and themselves, away from women, more than ever.
            This is how it was traditionally…

            I also think that men, the world over should not even think of marriage until they’re 35, and after developing RP principles…

          4. context is what I mean, my father was born at the end of the generation X spectrum, he is only 24 years older than me, he got married when I was about 2 years old and was with my mom since he was 18, he is the greatest man I’ve ever known in my life, and to be half of what he is would be an achievement, he is so fucken beta though, rehursing the old book’s to me religiously, what the redpill would have been for him growing up in the 80s, isn’t redpill to me, the society my dad experienced at the most brutal point of apartheid isn’t what I am experiencing now, my father’s battles were political and ideological, mine is a exotic struggle, black people in South Africa had the idea that the struggle against apartheid will take generations, every generation built on the successes of the previous one, and so on, this instilled a strong sense of family in black south Africans, when the struggle was won, that reverence of the family unit was replaced, with the love of money and status,

          5. @alphahomosapien: Yeeees.I see the same thing with fathers here nowadays.

            Many of them still follow the “Old set of books”….
            They can’t even relate to the shit their sons have been put through.
            Some can see it….but they can’t push publicly for a pro-male program or policy.

            We have to go back separating boys from girls at different stages in their lives to prepare them.

            Though I have a feeling social media is revealing hypergamy (& the folly of blue pill thinking) not just to men in western societies, but here in Africa as well…

            But yes, the struggle was quickly replaced with materialism and feminism…BB has been promoted and masculinity denigrated constantly over the last 3 decades…

            We need to take the conversation back….

            I’m also advocating for some secret society type situation especially for boys until they’re 18, and another for men from 21-40.

          6. lol, the 48th rule of power states that to play the game with brutal effect, one must pretend the game doesn’t exist, it’s important for boys to socialise with girls from early on, it makes it easier for men to understand the Un understandable, it’s been a help in my life growing up with woman all around me, it made me fearless when it comes to approach and generally I’ve meet to many betas that come from a all boiz school to subscribe to that mentality,, when I said West cost in ment your side of Africa

          7. @alphahomosapien: I hear you and I agree…

            What I meant was at specific stages men should mentor young men and boys, away from.
            I myself grew up with 6 sisters and at some point had many female friends.

            I’m in the East….East Africa….and yes women here are easy on the eye…Rwanda, ethiopia, Eritrea, Tanzania…
            Too many fish in the sea 😎

          8. @kombayashii
            i am quite new to the manosphere, I took TRP 30 days ago, been devouring every reputable blog I could find every since, I’ve found jemz from Rollo and the illimitable man, these guys have really changed my outlook on life by clarifying things I have always felt, in my life, sorta like how Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris gave me clarity, but my only contention with the manosphere is how racist it is, not in the overt storm front way, but growing up in South Africa, latent racism is ever where and knowing where you fit in and are welcome could be a matter of life or death…. The way some bloggers exalt WESTERN CIVILIZATION and laments it’s downfall is quite revealing of their world view, one wonders when exactly western civilization was great, is it when they were stealing people and treating them like cargo, or was it when they decided to carve up Africa for them self’s, what about when they started both world wars, maybe it’s when they help the European Jews steal land from the Palestinians, shit history is replete with examples I could go on forever, the truth is western civilization has been rotting from the inside for long time, and it’s finnlay colapsing under the weight of its own hubris, the western world is turning on its self, the Brexit was a sign of this, the elevation of far right nationalism is another sign of it, ur take on the the Anglo…..argh I mean Manosphere

          9. @alphahomosapien:
            Welcome to the RP brother and TRM specifically. Illimitable is another one of my go to guys…

            I totally understand your sentiments about racism. And, to some extent, I think westerners have a certain filter they put on when it comes to African or black, or brown or yellow people for that matter…

            Which is why TRM and illimitable I find, in my opinion, are the most refreshing places…
            Points of view can be exchanged based in common ground.. We.Are.Men
            We don’t have to like each other but what Rollo et al are doing is priceless…this is stuff that has rebuilt many broken men, including myself – I’ve been fully RP for about 4-5yrs now.
            I know the dynamics in S.A. exist…and people will always have a bias, from the extreme to the benign… and yes our history with the west is a litany of misunderstanding, ignorance, pain, blood…
            That being said, we should not forget the past, or present, but we cannot dwell.

            Like I said, we don’t have to like each other but we can still get along…

            And as men for me, and others I’m guessing, TRP transcends all – race, age, culture, class, nationality, and so on…Rollo’s site is an invaluable resource in my opinion for men of whatever extraction…

            Here on TEN we accept and bask in our masculinity and we have no apology to make for it. We also love women….but we love them for who they are…and that’s better for both us.
            We accept that we are leaders and leadership is a burden….we accept it gladly…

            As for the far right, brexit, and the west…well…there are those who have misused the power they have been given, or taken, or stolen, over the rest of us and divide-&-rule (among other things( is one of their main weapons…the way society is nowadays is no mistake, nor is it coincidence…
            All I can say is…inform yourself, keep that African pride burning and be proud to be a man who is awake….

            Your red pill journey will have some trying periods….but TRM is here…and we’re here.

            Need to sleep now…but welcome once again bro!

          10. @kombayashii
            that’s legit Bro, thanks so much for sharing, really appreciate it, want to travel the world a and can’t do that with out seeing my back yard first, if I ever ever hit up Kenya, I’ll hit u up

          11. @alphahomosapien: No doubt! Anytime bruv!
            Travel as much as you can…there’s plenty experiences to be had, and a plethora of beautiful women you can’t even believe.

            Have a good one…

  75. The Beta will always be there for you.

    When I read women getting up in arms about something Men are doing. I think back to my days in rural America.

    When I grew up, young ladies 18 or so would be adamant about NOT settling down with some farmer or farmer’s son. They wanted to get out of small town America and see the Mall in the big city. Many of these brave women explorers would say this directly.

    Farmer John will always be there, why should I rush to be stuck on the farm?

    It’s really telling that I remember 10 distinct times that my Female teachers would debate a matter of the day and the idea of having kids in one’s 30s always seemed to come up in glowing terms.

    Whether it was a post wall female teacher justification. Or it’s a feminist thing. These female teachers were all about getting young High Schoolers to delay having kids. Everyone was all gasping about “teenage pregnancy” statistics. Never once realizing that the TRUE issue in teen pregnancy was not so much in the country areas as urban areas concentrated on a few distinct ethnic groups.

    But if the Beta changes he could break out of Betaness or even more alarming become more attractive thus his SMV may be higher when the go grrl needs him at the Wall.

    Women don’t want anyone messing with their future meal ticket at the Wall. The intelligent ones know the wall’s coming. They don’t want those men doing something besides getting ready to take in 30+ Wall refugees.

    By the author is using a pseudonym and lying about location “Toronto” is usually code for “I don’t live in NYC but I’m just like the people there although I live in suburban Pennsylvania”.

    1. @Rollo
      “I made the case that if you are Red Pill aware there comes a point where you have no choice but to be MGTOW to some degree since you are effectively cut away from the Blue Pill existence. You can’t say you didn’t know better, so to some effect unplugging sets you apart from following the Blue Pill script – you must go your own way with a new awareness or go into denial.”
      This story comes up that way with how life becomes nostalgic from blue to red…

  76. Ang

    These female teachers were all about getting young High Schoolers to delay having kids.

    Yeah… women are as Blue Pill as guys and fall for this kind of propagandizing…

    However – watch what they do not what they say…

    My wife, when we met and she was in college, had the same notions… would get a cool job, not settle down etc…

    We were married a few months after her graduation. Had a kid within a year of that. She worked a total of 3 months in our 25 year marriage (right at the beginning)… LOL She can hardly remember any of those old conversations as she knows “she always really wanted to be a mom”

    because…. biology.

  77. XD

    July 19th, 2016 at 2:46 am
    “Open Hypergamy means the end of committed relationships as we know it down the road-including marriage.”

    Go even further. The social acceptance of premarital (and casual) sex was the beginning of the end for – traditional – marriage.

  78. Rollo,

    You’re going to have hundreds, if not thousands of men who will have your back for the next fifty years if you’re ever in a bind. Seriously. The writing is so clear and so valuable. I hope the plaudits aren’t too much but I had to give you one there. Damned gold.

    Phoebe Bovy looks to be wallbanging pretty hard right about now. I saw one photo that really flattered her but she lost some hair and just looks latte’d out and tired now. Leftist pseudo-emotion is about as healthy in one’s blood as battery acid.

    Her screed is certainly typical, autopilot misandry, but there is some fear there too, I think. Guys are simply stumbling into alpha territory by spelunking in Indonesia, pheasant hunting in Chile, riding a horse through Yellowstone etc.

    EVEN betas are stumbling upon added value simply by being the boys they are; wanting adventure and exploring and mastering gadgetry and taking it out into the field, outdoor living etc.

    Battered and defeated betas simply quit society and go full steam into bow-hunting, art collecting, motorcycling, river rafting, whatever, but in so doing they tick off several alpha-boxes by accident, just by being nerds who like to dive into a hobby.

    This is not a good feeling for Bovy. The alphas are out of reach and the betas are so beta that they’d rather race jeeps in Mexico than get shot down by women for the rest of their life. So not only are they done with women but they have leapfrogged themselves into desirability, often unwittingly. They are actual alpha bad boys now! This is hell for a wall banger like Bovy. Yeah, it’s the typical, rote shaming but this girl is scared. Her frustration at how deftly (if accidentally) men have parried her tired out crap almost spins off into a tantrum. You can feel it when you read her article. The lazy jabs at the end are so worn-out.

    All of those 120K a year nerdy pharmacists out on wine tours, going to Jiu-Jitsu camps in Rio, lifting, kayaking. They just nerd their way into Marlboro Man status. You don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone.

  79. @Kaminsky: True; given the day’s headlines of plagiarism it was too ripe not to go that way. Well, I’ll admit to favoring the Hendrix version above Dylan’s yet both have their place.

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