Sugar Babies

prettywhitegirl

Whenever I use a manosphere acronym I’m always torn between presuming my readers will already know the terminology and need to re-explain a concept that the letters represent to new readers. We use a lot of acronyms and placeholder terms in the ‘sphere. These are necessary, but when you apply needed terms to abstractions and unfamiliar ideas critics will always fill the blanks in for themselves by telling you what you think you mean according to their preconceptions.

Next to the (abstract) terms of ‘Alpha’ and ‘Beta’, SMP and SMV are two of the more contentious placeholders for manosphere concepts. SMP is Sexual Marketplace and SMV is used to represent the relative Sexual Market Value of an individual within that SMP. There’s a lot to consider when when we attempt to define just what that ‘marketplace’ entails, but the point of contention for critics is that by valuating a person based on a perceived market state we dehumanize that individual. For those uninitiated to Red Pill concepts, a complete denial of any sexual marketplace is usually the first retort.

People are People and everyone is special” or some variation of the nebulous individual’s uniqueness needing to be held as the benchmark for each case of ‘value’ are the common refrains. Even denying an observable, measurable marketplace altogether for fear of being ‘judgemental’ is part of the Red Pill critic’s predictable counter to the idea of a sexual marketplace.

However, the latent purpose of this denial is really a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ tactic that keeps players ignorant of the system they exist in. Just as with the 49th Law of Power, deny the game exists and you can better play it.

As with all Red Pill truths, the awareness of where one fits into the scheme of the SMP, and accepting the sometimes cruel realities of it can be a bucket of cold reality for men (and women). The simple truth is that our capacity to valuate various stimuli in our environment has been a survival-beneficial adaptation for us.

We commodify a lot of our personal lives these days. We simply don’t have a problem accepting the easier aspects of this. ‘Time is money” is quick aphorism we apply to a lot of situation for ourselves. When a woman does the breakdown of all her ‘unpaid’ housework or childcare for an article in Forbes she’s lauded for commodifying and valuating that work. But let a man commodify women based on their general sexual appeal and utility to his sexual strategy and he’s dehumanizing and objectifying women.

If you’re interested in further reading about how we apply market principles to various aspects of our lives I’d suggest the book Life Inc. by Doug Rushkoff. It’s a great read, particularly the ideas about how we view buying a house as an investment rather than a place to live. I bring this up here because it’s a similar dynamic to how women invest themselves with men in the long term and the short term according to Hypergamous necessity. Women’s Hypergamy largely defines the modern sexual marketplace.

The Benefits of Opportunism

Women love opportunistically, men love idealistically. I’ve written several essays about how Hypergamy predisposes (often subconsciously) women to sexual opportunism, and men’s concept of love is rooted in idealism. I won’t belabor summing up these dynamics today, but if you want to review them you can read through the Love series of posts, and male idealism can be found here.

In 2016, the modern dating landscape, as well as contemporary marriage, has become varying degrees of ‘sex work’. I went into this topic a year and a half ago in Commodifying Love. This post was mostly meant to elaborate on another post Dalrock had written observing the utility feminist had with being miserly with love. I sought to explore it a bit further:

As Open Hypergamy becomes more proudly embraced and normalized in society, so too will women’s sexual strategy be laid more bare. And in laying that strategy bare, so too will women’s opportunistic model of love become more apparent to men. This new apparentness is already conflicting with the old-order messaging that kept men hopeful of realizing their idealistic love state.

Women cannot sell Open Hypergamy and the love-conquers-all ethereal ideal love at the same time.

I daresay this quote was a good bit of foreshadowing. One aspect of having a Red Pill lens is that it allows you to see the writing on the wall in so many ways with regard to intersexual dynamics and how they influence societal shifts. When I proposed that men and women’s concepts of love differ, and that much of the disconnect between the sexes is the result of the fact that we don’t share a mutual point of origin for that love, Blue Pill people got upset.

Women’s concept of love originates in an opportunism stemming from a subconscious need to optimize Hypergamy. To this day I still get angry comments from women for having used the word “opportunism”. Naturally, there’s a negative connotation to opportunism, but I use it in this context to describe a function in women’s sexual strategy. I could’ve used the term ‘practical’ or ‘pragmatic’, but often enough what inspires women’s need to optimize Hypergamy is anything but practical or pragmatic.

Everyone needs to realize that men are the “romantics pretending to be realists” and women; vice versa.

This week I received more than a few requests to give my take on the latest trend in women’s sexual opportunism. This comes courtesy of Vanity Fair and their exposé of the Sugar Babies/Sugar Daddies “dating” dynamic that’s become part of The New Prostitution Economy. Have a read of the whole article, but the short version is a breakdown of how women (all in their SMV peak years) look for “arrangements” with generous men eager to fund their lifestyles or (ostensibly) their education goals. In exchange, these men get the privilege of ‘dating’ if not fucking these women who would otherwise be out of whatever league they ascribe themselves to.

sugarbabies_2

I have a real love-hate relationship with articles like this. It’s far too easy to pile on and get wrapped up in the salaciousness and outrage dynamic – which is really what the article is written to prompt. But at the risk of writing an article about how “horrible women are/becoming” I think this trend is really the next logical extension of what I was describing in Commodifying Love a year and a half ago.

Yes, it’s just prostitution by another name. Yes, there is a pop-culture effort to normalize what would otherwise be a manipulative exploitation of men – but who cares, right? If poor Beta saps have the money, it’s only pragmatic that women legitimize the ‘pay-to-play’ model while they can capitalize on it in their prime years, right? And yes, the feminist narrative will simultaneously vilify the men resorting to being a “Sugar Daddy” while applauding the empowered women who play the game as well as they do.

Sarcasm aside, what’s underneath this dynamic is a graphic illustration of just how women’s opportunism looks when the stigma of keeping Hypergamy concealed from men is now brought into the light and proudly embraced in a feminine-centric social order. The social effort to normalize Open Hypergamy takes another step forward when women’s effective prostitution becomes indistinguishable from ‘normal’ dating – that is dating based on common attraction or interest.

The ‘date’-as-investment-opportunity becomes inseparable from women’s opportunistic concept of, and approach towards, love. Commodifying love and sex blurs the line between what is genuine desire and what is motivated interest. The conventional meme is that women have a difficult time separating sex from emotional investment, but the progression of Open Hypergamy – in this case the deliberate feigning of intimate interests on the part of women – puts the lie to this and reveals the true pragmatism with which women will apply their sexuality. Open Hypergamy becomes open prostitution, but this relationship becomes an accepted exchange or transaction the more comfortable women get with revealing the crueler nature of their sexual strategy.

“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore.”

When we look at women’s opportunistic approach to love, psycho-social dynamics like the War Bride dynamic come into stark contrast next to the Sugar Babies trend – they are both natural extensions of women’s need to optimize Hypergamy and ensure their long term security.

“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore,” says another guy at the bar, a well-known D.J. in his 30s. “They’re not strippers, they’re not on the corner, there’s no more madam. They look like all the other club girls.”

He tells a story of a young woman he let stay in his hotel room one weekend while he was working in Las Vegas. “She met up with this other girl and all of a sudden they had all these men’s watches and wallets and cash. They wereworking.” He laughs, still amazed at the memory.

“It’s like hooking has just become like this weird, distorted extension of dating,” the D.J. says. “ ‘He took me to dinner. He throws me money for rent’—it’s just become so casual. I think it’s dating apps—when sex is so disposable, if it doesn’t mean anything, then why not get paid for it? But don’t call it prostitution—no, now it’s liberation.”

They all look the same because the commodification of intimacy is the same. Hooking is dating when the only degree of separation is in the comfort women have in the transaction. The necessary compartmentalizing of feelings or emotional investment on the part of women – the ones we’ve been sold for so long as inseparable from their sexuality – are only mitigated by men they perceive as having a higher SMV than those who they view as ‘clients’.

Money isn’t a factor in this equation of SMV; why would it be when provisioning is so easily had via dating clients ready to pay her rent or something else comparable? I’ve dug into this before, but with respect to women’s short-term sexual priorities (the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy) money rarely plays a role in genuine arousal; and even then it’s by order of degree in how necessitous that woman may be – or in this case, how entitled to those resources she has convinced herself she deserves.

The larger social embrace of “Sugaring” is an extension of Open Hypergamy. So not only is there an expectation of capitalizing on a woman’s party years, but that once she’s reached the Epiphany Phase she can be relatively confident that her years of Sugaring will be socially normalized and not factor into her long-term capacity to optimize Hypergamy (see the Sandberg effect). Women’s opportunistic concept of love is informed by Hypergamy, so it feeds into the SMP valuation of her intimate transactions.

And this dynamic isn’t just limited to younger women in their SMV peak years; women in their later phases of maturity have also found how useful apps like Tinder are in getting men to do the manual labor tasks they’d otherwise have to pay for themselves.

Genuine femininity has become so rare in our present social order that it can now be bartered as a luxury experience for men who can afford it. So uncommon is feminine behaviors and demeanor now that men will pay a woman’s bills when they can convincingly act feminine, sweet and appreciative. It’s no surprise that married men account for the majority of Sugar Daddies; they seek what they lack in their marriages – sex, femininity, appreciation, caring, even loving conversation – an escape from wives who feel entitled to their efforts and provisioning with out reciprocation.

Even feigned femininity is better than a nagging loneliness in marriage

Transactions

Acknowledging Hypergamy openly is acknowledging the transactional nature of women’s concept of love. It’s ugly, but as Hypergamy becomes an increasingly normalized a blurring of the line between dating and prostitution becomes more common. As I’ve said before, there will come a point that even the most Blue Pill man will be forced to recognize women’s blatant sexual strategies. As it stands now there is some confusion for these guys, thus, we see men wondering who the hooker is and who the available club girl is because both employ similar methodologies.

As a result men become less able to distinguish genuine desire from transactional role playing by women. Even in marriage transactional role playing has already been normalized and a presumption of a feminine frame of authority pervades most marriages – wives allow a husband to believe he’s in his Frame so long as the transaction is beneficial to what her ego believes is her due (see Briffault’s Law).

Solutions & Caveats

Sometimes it’s not enough to simply say “now you know, and knowing is half the battle”. The other half of the battle is taking actions and precautions to avoid the tar pits and protect oneself. In the future I believe it will be imperative for men not only to understand the nature of women’s sexual strategy, but also what to expect from the results of women’s previous decisions to effect them.

Guys ought to consider that by marrying or engaging in an LTR with former Sugar Babies they will not only deal with an Alpha Widow in terms of her sexual past, but also Sugar Daddy provider widows as well. Imagine the lifestyle switch to a lower socioeconomic status than what her former Daddy provided her with. Even dutiful Betas in Waiting will find their patience tested in competing with the previous lifestyle of a Sugar Baby.

Of course the easiest answer is always to recuse yourself from dating a Sugar Baby, to say nothing about entering an LTR with her, but as I mentioned earlier, hooking will be dating or some crossing of that line in the not so distant future. It’s important to bear this in mind, particularly when the transactional nature of it will run contradictory to the narrative that men are never owed sex for anything. The subcommunication is one of an implied contract, but the indignation will be one of men’s non-selected presumptions that sex is what’s being barter for.

From now and into the foreseeable future men must consider women from a realistic assessment of how their sexual strategies inform their decisions and base their own decisions accordingly. It’s also important to remember that the sexual market place differs in various contexts. Usually this context is reflective of the culture or social group engaging in, and reinforcing it. Women sexual opportunism doesn’t change, only how it’s expressed in a social context. Not all women are ‘Sugaring’, however the motives that allow for a normalization of it exist in all women – even the sweet nice ones who want to make a good impression on you.

It’s not impossible to engender a genuine desire in a woman. If that weren’t the case I wouldn’t be writing, but it’s important to be aware of how Hypergamy will evolved social dynamics to better facilitate its optimization. This can be a very damaging influence on both women and the men who attempt to navigate a sexual marketplace founded on unchecked Hypergamy.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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redlight
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redlight

@rollo

wtf happened to the bros before houses posting?

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redlight
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redlight

okay, it’s ho ho ho in July

Sugar babes are just example of women being great resource extractors, it’s never going to be just AF

pinelero
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pinelero

Wow… a females solipsistic expectation that a man should pay for a normal date is now being extended into paying her rent and school tuition. The sugar babies are just western geisha girls with the rest of them using the gov’t as a sugar daddy. What is the sugar daddy rate for a 4 versus an 8? “Even in marriage transactional role playing has already been normalized and a presumption of a feminine frame of authority pervades most marriages – wives allow a husband to believe he’s in his Frame so long as the transaction is beneficial to what her… Read more »

Sorta Sugar Daddy
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Sorta Sugar Daddy

I used Seeking Arrangement for a couple months before suspending my account (stopping payment). My photo was pretty generic – not a head shot – but I live in a big enough city where I could be generally anonymous on there. I was a little different, in that I can do well for myself otherwise. Just got bored and curious and gave it a shot. I can’t tell you how easy it was to get laid on there if you’re 25-35 and attractive. And all without spending much. The younger, naive ones just want a little shopping and to be… Read more »

redlight
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redlight

rap can be pretty red pill but I’m listening to the new song Champions and Gucci Mane goes

“I gave my bitch two mil’ cause she stuck around”

wait, what?

it turns out he was in jail for a bit, his bitch stayed around (as far as he knew) so he gave her 2M

IllimitableMan
Guest

Sugar babies are effectively prostitutes that pretend to be your girlfriend. As such, they’ll have the same tenacity a girlfriend has to deny you sex and attach politics to the pussy despite being paid far in excess of what an honest working girl charges for politics free pussy. Transactionally speaking, that’s a horrible deal for a man. And a man who can afford a sugar baby can definitely a college age prostitute, so why the hell would he want a sugar baby? As Rollo rightfully states: he’s looking for femininity, for a woman to pretend to desire him and care… Read more »

The City Bachelor (@TheCityBachelor)
Guest

The sugar baby trend evokes a mixed bag of emotions for me. On the one hand, I feel anxiety, fear, and dread that these girls can engage in such scandalous behavior with limited repercussions (few men would have the sense to figure out what kind of a girl she is and therefore rule out a relationship with her. I don’t think she’ll be volunteering details about her sugar baby “career” to potential boyfriends/husbands.) On the other hand, it gives me a joyful smirk to look back on all the “out of my league” sugar babies I’ve banged while posing as… Read more »

Tarl
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Tarl

One girl I was hooking up with told me about her sugar daddies. Guys that were married and 55+. She’d get a few hundred bucks each time they hooked up. This is not a bad deal at all for a guy with a good income who might spend exactly that much on “date night” with his 50-something wife – and in this case, he gets to bang a 20-something body instead. It is even more of a screaming deal for a guy that age who is dealing with a dead bedroom and/or a wife who totally let herself go to… Read more »

Black Label Logic
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In reality these men are purchasing an illusion akin to that of a girlfriend-experience. However, as the woman is “not really” a prostitute in their minds, it is somehow different. If you buy a professional, then you are fully aware that she offers the exact same service to others. However, if you get a “sugarbaby” (that term is the creepiest I’ve heard ever including “furries”) they may rationalize to themselves that they are in fact special. In effect, both parties in the transaction are creating a joint frame in which she is not a whore and he is not a… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

Oh lordy. Rollo how am I supposed to get any work done when you keep posting articles on such good fucking topics. I gotta not read this one till later in the week lol

JAckd
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JAckd

Can you summarize Rushkoff’s stance on buying a house? How are you as sucker to the corporation? Better off in a rental apt?

Sentient
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Sentient

Anecdotal dialogue Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds? Socialite: My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course… Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds? Socialite: Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?! Churchill: Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price. Just making honest whores out of amateurs… but really this is not new, the lack of shame is for sure, but in older times they were called “mistresses”. Mistresses got gifts, not hard cash, but also the… Read more »

Adam
Guest

This post is a nice breakdown of an age-old topic as Sentient has identified. The only difference now is how much its out in the open due to the destructive nature of feminism.

Rollo, a small grammatical error under the “Transactions” paragraph. 2nd sentence, you need to drop the ‘an’.

YaReally
Guest

But before I run away, the biggest thing to discuss in my mind in 2016 isn’t the sugar daddies that are actually GETTING sex. That shit’s been around forever. It’s the culture we’re in that’s grooming boys into becoming sugar daddies who DON’T get sex and are OKAY with it. Like that kid in that video I posted where he donated all his money to a girl he’ll never even directly interact with let alone fuck and he was on cloud 9. If that kid was at least directly hiring her for sex, I mean, that’s just how shit has… Read more »

redlight
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redlight

@black label

great summary, and it’s less likely she’s a total drug addict, and a lot harder for police to run a sting op on sugar daddies

redlight
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redlight

@yareally

“It’s the culture we’re in that’s grooming boys into becoming sugar daddies who DON’T get sex and are OKAY with it.”

as opposed to:

It’s the culture that has already groomed boys into becoming daddies who DON’T get sex after some time and MUST accept it.

SJB
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SJB

@IllimitableMan: Genuine desire? What is that in a woman? That is, seeking to acquire genes, a dominated orgasm, a month’s rent: what is the difference?

Fie on a woman’s desire: my desire is her desire. If I desire to make it transactional in my own coin – i.e. my frame – what’s the rub?

alchemist
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alchemist

Damn, this is such a good article. As someone that has gamed on SA it really rings true. I’ve found great regular plates there, along with the incredibly entitled 24 yr olds who fully expect 1k/meet and more just for their precious time (no thanks). My greatest insight came from a 8 mo non SD/SB relationship with a hardcore sugar baby who was perhaps the most hypergamist women I’ve ever encountered, and fully emblematic of what the article describes. 26. An easy objective 9/10. Older men would fly her around the world – she would convey stories of her pussy… Read more »

SJB
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SJB

@Rollo: While I agree the mainstreaming of dates-for-hire seems to overtly strength the FI, I wonder if the will be a covert backlash: having a mistress may no longer be a cause for divorce—after all, everybody is doing it. Perhaps we’ll hear the equal argument to “man up and marry the slut” as “philanderers are fine providers: cowgirl up.”

Matt
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Matt

sugaring = hypergamy

rotepilleblog
Guest

Does your wife agree with all of your writings?
Hope she isnt “sugaring” too much.
People are generally selfish, i guess its true but not just for women but men as well.
You gotta be somewhat selfish, as there are more than 7 billion of us on the planet by now.

redlight
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redlight

@SJB “having a mistress may no longer be a cause for divorce” if you want to see an amazing reverse-gender of this, last week’s Savage Love: married for 14 years … Sex between us (often kinky) has always been great. We have a wonderful life together and two perfect children. I learned recently that my wife has been unfaithful to me throughout our marriage. She began an affair with an older man soon before we were married, and they were physically intimate for five years, including bondage and a Master/sub relationship. … and of course she slept with other guys.… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

Also this thread is mandatory reading for this discussion, far as I’m concerned: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-45437.html THIS is what’s really happening out there. This isn’t just a few random ex-hookers or some obscure anomaly cases or some shit. This is the culture hot girls with social media accounts are being bred into from their early teens and the type of thing that society is trying to normalize to girls. I’ve met a bunch of girls who have/had multiple sugar daddies and who are offered flights and vacations and all sorts of shit sometimes for sex sometimes for just their attention. And these… Read more »

Black Label Logic
Guest

Lets put this into a model. have as our major premise that 90% of women are all attracted to and feel genuine desire for 10% of men. This is in line with the writings of Rollo, Heartiste, Illimitableman and many other manosphere authors. Given an equal population distribution that means that you have 3.5b women and 3.5b men. Out of those 3.15b women are attracted to and feel genuine desire for a total of 350m men. (I’m not going to adjust for people who are gay, as I assume an even distribution for them as well) This obviously will leave… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

lol fuck I love this topic too much: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/55670145e4b046480541e6c4/570aa5367c65e49ce6148122/570aa536e321403c554d2710/1460315450579/IMG_3644.PNG http://static1.squarespace.com/static/55670145e4b046480541e6c4/570aa5367c65e49ce6148122/570aa537e321403c554d2734/1460315450270/IMG_3645.PNG Imagine the internal “I’m the prize” value mindset you need to have to talk like this to someone offering you $20,000 lol like just “ugh, no promises, I’ll do what I want, but I’ll LET you give me $20,000 and a vacation I suppose, but my company should be enough to earn that $20,000” And YOU (the average dude learning game) wanna go approach a girl while you’re internally thinking “I’m a loser 🙁 she wouldn’t like me 🙁 I don’t have any value to offer her :(” This is… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

hilarious shit for you guys in mod, save me @Rollo!

redlight
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redlight

for some reason I expect blue pill prof to riff in here with “sex is money”

Strip clubs, cam girls, porn, dungeons etc. show that sexually based transactions continue to don’t always have penetration. However the degree that men are willing to pay significant amounts of money for just non-sexual female attention will remain very negligible

hank holiday
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hank holiday

@yareally @scray Went to mall in good city. Didn’t see anything. Bookstore. 6 black. But SUPER busy. Probably about 6 people within earshot, several actually sitting down. Came back around a few times, but always lots of people. Tried opening a bunch of the other customers there, but it didn’t really help with the apprehension of opening there — well, of doing so with sexual intent anyway. However, that will help a bunch once I have more experience doing that — in that case, just chatting up the others to show target AND obstacles that I am a cool social… Read more »

Atticus
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Atticus

Rollo, I said in a comment months ago that woman are incapable of “love”. You disagreed. Sugar daddies are a manifestation of the fact that It’s all a business transaction to women. Their hamster can make them believe that they love, and they do desire men, but at the end of the day it’s all bullshit. You grow up as a Catholic man with traditional parents thinking is sex special. It’s not, it’s a means to an end for women. Even the most hard-core PUAs end up falling in love, and the women dump them. Women do not love as… Read more »

Kevin
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Kevin

Lordy… As always, dryly and precisely on point. I have a plate that was blending into a ltr until I found out she was actively searching for and had met a sugar daddy. Of course she said he disappeared and that was that. I know he, or others like him are in the picture. She’s very careful now but it’s obvious. It sucks. Yes, I know…next. Still sucks.

Nature Boy
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@Rollo, All

Does “women love opportunistically” apply equally to BB and AF?

Tom
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Tom

> Of course the easiest answer is always to recuse yourself from dating a Sugar Baby, to say nothing about entering an LTR with her

Easy to say, but no chick is going to admit to having been a sugar baby, any more than they admit to having ridden the cock carousel.

hank holiday
Guest
hank holiday

okay, so better opener stuff and self-amusing game things to get in state very congruent to me, by being incongruent gist is that I quote classic 90’s rap songs. But I say them like in a normal convo. Then when she doesn’t know or call me out on it fast (if blakc, which is like 80% of the girls I open) I make fun of them for not knowing it. So one I had already thought of was in response to if she asks me something like “What do you think you are doing” or “haha, like THAT is going… Read more »

Tom
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Tom

@Nature Boy,

>Does “women love opportunistically” apply equally to BB and AF?

Women love betas opportunistically, and strategically

Women love alphas passionately, and in the moment

Sentient
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Sentient

Atticus

You grow up as a Catholic man with traditional parents thinking is sex special. It’s not, it’s a means to an end for women.

? ? ? Did you miss the chapter on Lot’s daughters?

Nature Boy
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@Tom

So you’re saying that WLO only applies to BB. I suspect that Rollo wouldn’t agree with that, and I’m curious for his take on it.

Water Cannon Boy
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Water Cannon Boy

You still get angry comments from women for using the term “opportunistic” because women like to use that term for men who they feel are seeking to hook up with somebody in the same manner they do. And they intend to use the term with clear negative connotation.
And like everything else in this world of equality, women despise a man who they think at any time is aware and borrowing the same tactics they use for gain in the sexual market place.

The Question
Guest

“Genuine femininity has become so rare in our present social order it can now be bartered as a luxury experience for men who can afford it.” Normal men can still experience it in limited doses. I go to certain restaurants now not just for the food but because I know I’m going to be served by a young, cute, feminine waitress. At first, they do the whole “fake pleasantness” thing when taking your order or doing small talk, but once you start teasing them or doing C&F, they respond accordingly. Some of my experiences flirting with waitresses were more fun,… Read more »

redlight
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redlight

for guys who didn’t see this yet:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4sca8j/pokemon_go_get_laid/

senior beta
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senior beta

Anything that gets YaReally stoked and bringing up old classics is worthwhile reading. Good job Rollo.

Water Cannon Boy
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Water Cannon Boy

“And there’s no shame.”
Sorta Sugar Daddy, when money is involved, there hardly ever is.

Rocket
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Rocket

The Rocket lives … and talks about something he knows about … Sugar Babies, lol. Haven’t visited this place much in many months and just happen to stop by tonight and find a topic that I am expert at. And Rollo isn’t. So will spill the beans about my situation but then again … I already did. Use the search if you must. So my current SB is 12 yrs younger than me. Had her since before I burned my bridges here. First date was Sept of last year. Been meeting weekly since October. So reason #1 of why I… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest

Yo guys, long time no see. Been busy with life and shit. @IllimitableMan As Rollo rightfully states: he’s looking for femininity, for a woman to pretend to desire him and care about him. It’s more of a psychological need than it is a sexual, if it was just sexual he’d see a hooker. Gotta disagree here; “Sugaring” has been normalized for women amongst each other, visiting a prostitute has not for men. I suspect it’s as much a function about what’s socially acceptable vs. what can ruin your social standing. A lot of guys probably do it because they’re in… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest

@Rollo

Yeah that was the first thing I noticed; first chick was remarkable for her completely unremarkable looks. I might Game her to talk to her hot friend, but under no circumstances would I give her more than a couple seconds consideration for a lay unless she just tossed it at me immediately. Even then she’d just be one you break the glass on in case of emergency.

placesundpeople
Guest
placesundpeople

> But that’s a racket that will soon be up as sugar dating becomes the norm and girls figure out how to work the game and weed out “splenda” daddies like me.

In ‘Germany, we got this https://www.ohlala.com/us/

The woman who creted this is a celebrated entrepreneur….

Nature Boy
Guest

@Rollo
“Both”

Gotcha. Just wanted you to clarify that. Given the negative connotation of opportunism it’s easier for me to associate it with BB than with AF. Tom’s response shows I’m not the only one.

Perhaps it’s easiest to see WLO in an AF context in the War Brides scenario.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

@ placesundpeople

Probably got the idea from something that’s was done 6 or 7 years ago by a man. Who looks the part.
Whatsyourprice.com
Girl accepts dates among guys who bid on it.

Rocket
Guest
Rocket

Guess we done here. Again. Good luck, dudes … reality ain’t what it seems. You did take the Red pill, right ? Did you unplug? You’ve been lied too, did you know that. Lied to about everything. Learn to recognize that. And recognize the truth. Yeah, it ain’t easy … so grow the fuck up. Nobody said it was easy. You got balls, deal with it … with reality. A girl’s got a pussy so that ain’t her job (deal with reality). She wants money to make her situation easy ? You got money ? Deal with it. Learn frame… Read more »

Mad Max
Guest

Perhaps this is what is causing the “herbivore” phenomenon in Japan. There, women as young as 13 use social media and mobile phones to meet Johns and exchange sex for cash. This is not only completely normalized, but accepted for the most part. If Japan is any case, once men wake up, they will disengage completely, and I don’t blame them. Japanese Men witnessed this FIRST HAND and have decided en masse to reject women. Japan is what happens when Open Hypergamy is unleashed and accepted for the most part. I strongly believe that there will not be any betas… Read more »

Random Angeleno
Guest
Random Angeleno

haha, AF/BB at its most basic in your face. To be sure, SD/SB have always been around in some form or other. Think somebody mentioned mistresses above, that was yesteryear’s term for it. If there’s been any change, it’s that the internet has really opened things up and pushed it above the radar into the realm of acceptability. Maybe not my acceptability, but mine doesn’t matter much, never did. I recall that some working girls included the acronym “GFE” in their ads. GFE = girlfriend experience, that has been around a long time, it far predates this post. Dunno if… Read more »

blogster
Guest
blogster

YaReally July 11th, 2016 at 6:16 pm “Imagine the internal “I’m the prize” value mindset you need to have to talk like this to someone offering you $20,000 lol like just “ugh, no promises, I’ll do what I want, but I’ll LET you give me $20,000 and a vacation I suppose, but my company should be enough to earn that $20,000” And YOU (the average dude learning game) wanna go approach a girl while you’re internally thinking “I’m a loser😦 she wouldn’t like me😦 I don’t have any value to offer her :(” This is why internal game is important… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

I made fun of the RVF’ers over their gay Pokemon thread but these guys make some good points in their reports: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4sca8j/pokemon_go_get_laid/ For guys wanting to do Daygame esp the younger guys who grew up with Pokemon (it was just after my time for me so I know fuck all about it) it sounds like there could be a lot of potential given the dynamics of how it works. I’ll definitely be trying “Are you catching Pokemon?” out as an opener at the bars to girls with their phone out. Probably something that’s only going to last for the summer/fall,… Read more »

GreenOnGo
Guest
GreenOnGo

I was in an American College town last year.Never in my life have I witnessed the HB7,8,9 female frenzy.The energy was electric.I’ve partied from Sydney to LA to London to Ibiza in the day. These American girls were all after the college athletes.Again nowhere else in the world has this sport system or school system.Its amazing in it’s scale. The tears and drama was something to behold.It was just all female energy.The abundance these sports guys had was amazing.The saddess was the blokes who were has beens or never made it.They actually thought they had game. As a non American… Read more »

Culum Struan
Guest
Culum Struan

Jeez I haven’t even worked through the last page of comments on the last post and here we have a post on something I have a LOT of experience with. In a hurry but the point about how a beta provider is going to find it difficult to keep up the lifestyle expectations of a former SB is interesting – not just Alpha Widow, but also Sugar Baby Widow. The classic RooshV Forum thread on Instagram hookers/Tag The Sponsor (previously linked to on here by me and then Rollo wrote a post about it in relation to a comment by… Read more »

Playdontpay
Guest
Playdontpay

@ Hank holiday
Why do you insist on posting your boring long ass field reports that are totally unrelated on every topic?
I don’t give a fuck about your good mall/bad mall bullshit.
Start your own blog if you feel the need to drone on I’m fed up of having to scroll through your tedious ramblings.

redlight
Guest
redlight

“How on earth do you adjust to being the wife of a dentist in Scarsdale, NY or similar? Like that’s a fantastic soft landing for a chick like that but it will never ever match what she had – and $1 million doesn’t last very long with those kind of tastes.” For the “win” they become trophies http://nypost.com/2013/09/23/meet-the-new-trophy-wives/ Married to billionaire Jets owner Woody Johnson, 20 years her senior, the 46-year-old former financier Suzanne Ircha has a degree from Cornell University and made her first million by age 26. Daily Beast a few years ago about russian women stalking the… Read more »

redlight
Guest
redlight

@mad max

I strongly believe that there will not be any betas in waiting when women hit the “epiphany” stage.

If there is one thing that is common between the marriage strike folk (men will boycott marriage) and the marriage lockout idea (yareally’s post-wall women will mine sexless betas for resources) is that there will be no divorce rape, and that’s cool.

Professor Highbrow
Guest
Professor Highbrow

That article was the most complicated piece of mental gymnastics I’ve read in a long time. You think you’ve read it all, then something new comes along and blows your mind all over again.

The hamstering of the female mind knows no bounds.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Lol @rocket.

Great topic Rollo.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

SUN!!!!!!!

Man, I can’t tell you how good it is to see your icon posting up.

Missed you something awful.

Welcome back!!!!!

pinelero
Guest
pinelero

“It took me till post 30 to be able to consistently look beyond a woman’s outer facade and not be overawed by it” Being able to not be swayed or lured by the siren call of sex/pussy is a true measure of a man’s maturity. It’s more than just having abundance mentality; it’s having your own internal focus and guide that may allow a woman to share in it or not.

newlyaloof
Guest

@Rollo, great post. Gives me more to think about as I contemplate how to tell my young daughter about the birds and the bees in future.

P.S. Can you hit up your introductory clauses with some commas, man! Why you against the comma, bro. (Just ribbin’ ya)

@YaReally, didn’t think about that aspect of Pokemon. I think besides that though, it’s just a crap sandwich making zombies out of human minds. Sad to see these people walking around all day like that.

Andy
Guest
Andy

Welp, on the bright side it cant get much worse. I guess you could say it’s a good thing that society is better reflecting human nature. Once we (men) start to take power back it will be on a super strong foundation because there’ll be no more tricks to pull. The FI is painting itself into a corner, because once hypergamy is completely freed and open and normalized everyone will be red pill…. And the pendulum will swing back.

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

being a whore used to be a very dangerous profession.

now whores have the police state as their pimp. the danger is gone. all that’s left is the reward of travel and mass produced trinkets

the problem also extends to the top 10% Chads, as even though they won’t pay and do generate genuine desire, they too are banging whores

and should they decide to knock one up, their daughters will be raised to be whores

pussy is a commodity and in finally recognizing this fact, rape should be reduced from a felony punishable by incareration to misdemeanor theft punishable by fine

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Sun

“The only trick I’ve found is finding good places to pull them from, but I’m getting there.”

Come now… they are all around you…

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VyEh2rVPG98/U-zOwtx2mtI/AAAAAAAAQxg/KOVlH4bNe2U/w1200-h630-p-nu/tcucheer-retreat1.jpg

Every college campus is packed out with young, attractive girls… Hit up all the coffee shops and smoothy places by day… ones close to yoga places are prime.

What do they want?

http://cdn.chatsports.com/cache/5c/ef/5cef67dde8417c891d428480d88cf9dc-original.jpg

Sentient
Guest
Sentient
Black Knight
Guest
Black Knight

This is just BB on steroids. Alphas are on tinder getting this same girls pussies for free.

Any guy considering these apps should just use tinder, show their wealth without promising giving any money, and then pump and dump. Record everything as anti-false-rape-claim safety.

Jackson
Guest
Jackson

@rollo

I have used sa for the last couple months and I would have to agree with the attractiveness rating. That’s my problem with it, they are not even that hot.

One caveat though, I suspect the more attractive women hide their profile and selectively reach out to the men they like. Even on sa the attractive women are bombarded with a huge amount of messages and probably have to use this method to screen.

SJF
Guest
SJF

@Sun Wukong

“I have utterly abandoned the over 25 dating space…..

Gaming chicks right around that 20 year old range is actually fun because they accept your fun energy and reciprocate it.”

You sound like you dragged yourself through that long dark tunnel of grief.

Also looks like you “know thyself” better ( Delphic Greek Maxim).

Congratulations.

Welcome back, man. I’m glad you ain’t dead yet. (your ghosting kind of scared some of us. The last time we talked, after a round table session, your last resigned sigh was actually kinda scary sounding, Lol….)

You were missed. Be well and have fun.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Culum “How on earth do you adjust to being the wife of a dentist in Scarsdale, NY or similar?” How? She looks in the mirror… For all the animus directed at women for being beautiful and leveraging their beauty, their attitude etc. Believe me… SHE knows every defect she has… she knows every wrinkle… she knows exactly how she stacks up to younger girls… Now she may not want to acknowledge this publicly or let YOU know… but she knows… and in this nest of insecurity the seeds of great game are planted. Pity a woman… she is a suicide… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

A man once asked “How do you go bankrupt” and a wiser man said “slowly… for a long… time then all of a sudden”…

Sentient
Guest
Sentient
Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

This is too good. Buried in chasing electrical gremlins…damn. But I gotta implore once more: guys, control yourselves with regards to the Hot Young Chicks narrative. For Christ sakes!!! Hot. Skinny..lol. Young. Never an excuse to get all ramped up and hyper. Get your shit under control and get the proper perspective. They are just girls!!!! There’s billions of them on the planet. C’mon think!!! PEDESTALize no chick for any reason. this is what’s driving this whoredom in the first place. I get a little queazy with every gush over the hawt babe. Fuck them. Lol, literally. stop praising them.… Read more »

sgtted
Guest

The SD/SB stuff is refreshingly honest. My favorite part, tho, is the attempt by other females policing the FI and shifting the blame to men by positing that SB’s are really just being exploited, as if these young women didn’t know exactly what they were doing.

kfg
Guest
kfg

“How do you go bankrupt” and a wiser man said “slowly… for a long… time then all of a sudden”…”

The trick is being in the morgue an hour before the receiver knows you’re dead.

Hmm
Guest
Hmm

Well, it might be a good thing for women to truly know their SMV. Wonder if the OP opener ever got her SD?

Klem
Guest
Klem

@Blaximus

THANK YOU lol

It always make me cringe when guys on here spend a whole paragraph describing their girl’s tits

walawala
Guest
walawala

The real skill in Alpha is getting girls to do things or give you stuff. I’m now at the point where girls are sending me hot selfies, wanting to cook for me, wanting to hang with me, etc etc. I now find myself becoming much more selective. This Sugar Baby “phenomenon” is men falling into the role that women should be playing—chasing, paying for attention. This idea of having a concubine is no guarantee of exclusivity or instant gratification. It’s an addiction in the same way guys are addicted to porn sites or online gambling. The transactional nature of Sugar… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest

@Rollo ““People are People and everyone is special” or some variation of the nebulous individual’s uniqueness needing to be held as the benchmark for each case of ‘value’ are the common refrains. Even denying an observable, measurable marketplace altogether for fear of being ‘judgemental’ is part of the Red Pill critic’s predictable counter to the idea of a sexual marketplace.” I wholeheartedly agree. Fear of competition and a personal sense of inadequacy are the primary motivators of this “everyone is special” mentality. It provides “hope” against “cruel” reality. Nature, life itself ensures its continuence by competition, eliminating weak and atypical… Read more »

rugby11
Guest
rugby11
Not Born This Morning
Guest

“Men love idealistically” I believe this is true, but only for men who,have not fully accepted the red pill. Each woman is a potential opportunity, some desirable, some not. What man would not accept the opportunity to mate with a younger more desirable female than one he is currently legally and socially handcuffed to? What man does not fantasize about such opportunities? Women come and go in a man’s life. Some age out, some get fat, some die, some are discovered to be less agreeable than assumed. Be honest and consider what is going on in the mind of a… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest

Idealistic love is the same as “everyone is special”

graphire78
Guest

Eat. Pray. Love… Divorce: What happens when the romance that inspired thousands to find their own happy ever after comes to a bubble-popping end?

Eat Pray Love author Elizabeth Gilbert has just announced she has separated from husband Jose Nunes after 12 years together

Ten years ago, Eat Pray Love became the romance of the decade

It told the story of Gilbert, who embarked on a journey of self-discovery

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3683437/What-happens-romance-inspired-thousands-happy-comes-bubble-popping-end.html

Not Born This Morning
Guest

I highly recommend this book to everyone. This book provides a description of what really is going on with our existence and how we can benefit ourselves. Intellectualism is important and communication of ideas is enlightening, but what this book touches upon is the foundation.

http://prodimage.images-bn.com/pimages/9780316028356_p0_v2_s192x300.jpg

Not Born This Morning
Guest

When the ideal is in conflict with the real, there is a problem.

Respect reality, consider ideology with skepticism.

Sun Wukong
Guest

@Sentient Like I said: I’m getting there. 😉 @Blax @SJF Heh, yeah life and work went in to asses and elbows time so I had to go do that. Good news is that I blew away the last of my debts, picked up the new camera I’d been wanting to snag for a couple years, and grabbed a used enduro bike to take with me living on the road for a couple years. Planning to load that and the Triumph I already had in to a toy hauler in 11 months and head out for a couple years. Now just… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

But Rollo, she”s ” young ” and ” tight “, and if a man were ” honest ” ( lol ), there’s no rejection possible. No man can resist youth. Especially older men. You’re not talking advantage of an evidently weak and helpless client base.

Lolz…..

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

That’s ” taking ” advantage…. dumb spellcheck.

theasdgamer
Guest

@Blax

You’re taking too much. ROFLMAO

kfg
Guest
kfg

@Rollo: “She wouldn’t even register for my notice”

She is what I have referred to here as a “bollard.”
I’d notice her to the extent that I would have to avoid running into her.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Bollard…. Lol

See her in her 5.6 glory… Note the roundness of face and thickness of upper arm…

Hear the tick tick tock of the ticking bomb clock…

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