Sugar Babies

prettywhitegirl

Whenever I use a manosphere acronym I’m always torn between presuming my readers will already know the terminology and need to re-explain a concept that the letters represent to new readers. We use a lot of acronyms and placeholder terms in the ‘sphere. These are necessary, but when you apply needed terms to abstractions and unfamiliar ideas critics will always fill the blanks in for themselves by telling you what you think you mean according to their preconceptions.

Next to the (abstract) terms of ‘Alpha’ and ‘Beta’, SMP and SMV are two of the more contentious placeholders for manosphere concepts. SMP is Sexual Marketplace and SMV is used to represent the relative Sexual Market Value of an individual within that SMP. There’s a lot to consider when when we attempt to define just what that ‘marketplace’ entails, but the point of contention for critics is that by valuating a person based on a perceived market state we dehumanize that individual. For those uninitiated to Red Pill concepts, a complete denial of any sexual marketplace is usually the first retort.

People are People and everyone is special” or some variation of the nebulous individual’s uniqueness needing to be held as the benchmark for each case of ‘value’ are the common refrains. Even denying an observable, measurable marketplace altogether for fear of being ‘judgemental’ is part of the Red Pill critic’s predictable counter to the idea of a sexual marketplace.

However, the latent purpose of this denial is really a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ tactic that keeps players ignorant of the system they exist in. Just as with the 49th Law of Power, deny the game exists and you can better play it.

As with all Red Pill truths, the awareness of where one fits into the scheme of the SMP, and accepting the sometimes cruel realities of it can be a bucket of cold reality for men (and women). The simple truth is that our capacity to valuate various stimuli in our environment has been a survival-beneficial adaptation for us.

We commodify a lot of our personal lives these days. We simply don’t have a problem accepting the easier aspects of this. ‘Time is money” is quick aphorism we apply to a lot of situation for ourselves. When a woman does the breakdown of all her ‘unpaid’ housework or childcare for an article in Forbes she’s lauded for commodifying and valuating that work. But let a man commodify women based on their general sexual appeal and utility to his sexual strategy and he’s dehumanizing and objectifying women.

If you’re interested in further reading about how we apply market principles to various aspects of our lives I’d suggest the book Life Inc. by Doug Rushkoff. It’s a great read, particularly the ideas about how we view buying a house as an investment rather than a place to live. I bring this up here because it’s a similar dynamic to how women invest themselves with men in the long term and the short term according to Hypergamous necessity. Women’s Hypergamy largely defines the modern sexual marketplace.

The Benefits of Opportunism

Women love opportunistically, men love idealistically. I’ve written several essays about how Hypergamy predisposes (often subconsciously) women to sexual opportunism, and men’s concept of love is rooted in idealism. I won’t belabor summing up these dynamics today, but if you want to review them you can read through the Love series of posts, and male idealism can be found here.

In 2016, the modern dating landscape, as well as contemporary marriage, has become varying degrees of ‘sex work’. I went into this topic a year and a half ago in Commodifying Love. This post was mostly meant to elaborate on another post Dalrock had written observing the utility feminist had with being miserly with love. I sought to explore it a bit further:

As Open Hypergamy becomes more proudly embraced and normalized in society, so too will women’s sexual strategy be laid more bare. And in laying that strategy bare, so too will women’s opportunistic model of love become more apparent to men. This new apparentness is already conflicting with the old-order messaging that kept men hopeful of realizing their idealistic love state.

Women cannot sell Open Hypergamy and the love-conquers-all ethereal ideal love at the same time.

I daresay this quote was a good bit of foreshadowing. One aspect of having a Red Pill lens is that it allows you to see the writing on the wall in so many ways with regard to intersexual dynamics and how they influence societal shifts. When I proposed that men and women’s concepts of love differ, and that much of the disconnect between the sexes is the result of the fact that we don’t share a mutual point of origin for that love, Blue Pill people got upset.

Women’s concept of love originates in an opportunism stemming from a subconscious need to optimize Hypergamy. To this day I still get angry comments from women for having used the word “opportunism”. Naturally, there’s a negative connotation to opportunism, but I use it in this context to describe a function in women’s sexual strategy. I could’ve used the term ‘practical’ or ‘pragmatic’, but often enough what inspires women’s need to optimize Hypergamy is anything but practical or pragmatic.

Everyone needs to realize that men are the “romantics pretending to be realists” and women; vice versa.

This week I received more than a few requests to give my take on the latest trend in women’s sexual opportunism. This comes courtesy of Vanity Fair and their exposé of the Sugar Babies/Sugar Daddies “dating” dynamic that’s become part of The New Prostitution Economy. Have a read of the whole article, but the short version is a breakdown of how women (all in their SMV peak years) look for “arrangements” with generous men eager to fund their lifestyles or (ostensibly) their education goals. In exchange, these men get the privilege of ‘dating’ if not fucking these women who would otherwise be out of whatever league they ascribe themselves to.

sugarbabies_2

I have a real love-hate relationship with articles like this. It’s far too easy to pile on and get wrapped up in the salaciousness and outrage dynamic – which is really what the article is written to prompt. But at the risk of writing an article about how “horrible women are/becoming” I think this trend is really the next logical extension of what I was describing in Commodifying Love a year and a half ago.

Yes, it’s just prostitution by another name. Yes, there is a pop-culture effort to normalize what would otherwise be a manipulative exploitation of men – but who cares, right? If poor Beta saps have the money, it’s only pragmatic that women legitimize the ‘pay-to-play’ model while they can capitalize on it in their prime years, right? And yes, the feminist narrative will simultaneously vilify the men resorting to being a “Sugar Daddy” while applauding the empowered women who play the game as well as they do.

Sarcasm aside, what’s underneath this dynamic is a graphic illustration of just how women’s opportunism looks when the stigma of keeping Hypergamy concealed from men is now brought into the light and proudly embraced in a feminine-centric social order. The social effort to normalize Open Hypergamy takes another step forward when women’s effective prostitution becomes indistinguishable from ‘normal’ dating – that is dating based on common attraction or interest.

The ‘date’-as-investment-opportunity becomes inseparable from women’s opportunistic concept of, and approach towards, love. Commodifying love and sex blurs the line between what is genuine desire and what is motivated interest. The conventional meme is that women have a difficult time separating sex from emotional investment, but the progression of Open Hypergamy – in this case the deliberate feigning of intimate interests on the part of women – puts the lie to this and reveals the true pragmatism with which women will apply their sexuality. Open Hypergamy becomes open prostitution, but this relationship becomes an accepted exchange or transaction the more comfortable women get with revealing the crueler nature of their sexual strategy.

“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore.”

When we look at women’s opportunistic approach to love, psycho-social dynamics like the War Bride dynamic come into stark contrast next to the Sugar Babies trend – they are both natural extensions of women’s need to optimize Hypergamy and ensure their long term security.

“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore,” says another guy at the bar, a well-known D.J. in his 30s. “They’re not strippers, they’re not on the corner, there’s no more madam. They look like all the other club girls.”

He tells a story of a young woman he let stay in his hotel room one weekend while he was working in Las Vegas. “She met up with this other girl and all of a sudden they had all these men’s watches and wallets and cash. They wereworking.” He laughs, still amazed at the memory.

“It’s like hooking has just become like this weird, distorted extension of dating,” the D.J. says. “ ‘He took me to dinner. He throws me money for rent’—it’s just become so casual. I think it’s dating apps—when sex is so disposable, if it doesn’t mean anything, then why not get paid for it? But don’t call it prostitution—no, now it’s liberation.”

They all look the same because the commodification of intimacy is the same. Hooking is dating when the only degree of separation is in the comfort women have in the transaction. The necessary compartmentalizing of feelings or emotional investment on the part of women – the ones we’ve been sold for so long as inseparable from their sexuality – are only mitigated by men they perceive as having a higher SMV than those who they view as ‘clients’.

Money isn’t a factor in this equation of SMV; why would it be when provisioning is so easily had via dating clients ready to pay her rent or something else comparable? I’ve dug into this before, but with respect to women’s short-term sexual priorities (the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy) money rarely plays a role in genuine arousal; and even then it’s by order of degree in how necessitous that woman may be – or in this case, how entitled to those resources she has convinced herself she deserves.

The larger social embrace of “Sugaring” is an extension of Open Hypergamy. So not only is there an expectation of capitalizing on a woman’s party years, but that once she’s reached the Epiphany Phase she can be relatively confident that her years of Sugaring will be socially normalized and not factor into her long-term capacity to optimize Hypergamy (see the Sandberg effect). Women’s opportunistic concept of love is informed by Hypergamy, so it feeds into the SMP valuation of her intimate transactions.

And this dynamic isn’t just limited to younger women in their SMV peak years; women in their later phases of maturity have also found how useful apps like Tinder are in getting men to do the manual labor tasks they’d otherwise have to pay for themselves.

Genuine femininity has become so rare in our present social order that it can now be bartered as a luxury experience for men who can afford it. So uncommon is feminine behaviors and demeanor now that men will pay a woman’s bills when they can convincingly act feminine, sweet and appreciative. It’s no surprise that married men account for the majority of Sugar Daddies; they seek what they lack in their marriages – sex, femininity, appreciation, caring, even loving conversation – an escape from wives who feel entitled to their efforts and provisioning with out reciprocation.

Even feigned femininity is better than a nagging loneliness in marriage

Transactions

Acknowledging Hypergamy openly is acknowledging the transactional nature of women’s concept of love. It’s ugly, but as Hypergamy becomes an increasingly normalized a blurring of the line between dating and prostitution becomes more common. As I’ve said before, there will come a point that even the most Blue Pill man will be forced to recognize women’s blatant sexual strategies. As it stands now there is some confusion for these guys, thus, we see men wondering who the hooker is and who the available club girl is because both employ similar methodologies.

As a result men become less able to distinguish genuine desire from transactional role playing by women. Even in marriage transactional role playing has already been normalized and a presumption of a feminine frame of authority pervades most marriages – wives allow a husband to believe he’s in his Frame so long as the transaction is beneficial to what her ego believes is her due (see Briffault’s Law).

Solutions & Caveats

Sometimes it’s not enough to simply say “now you know, and knowing is half the battle”. The other half of the battle is taking actions and precautions to avoid the tar pits and protect oneself. In the future I believe it will be imperative for men not only to understand the nature of women’s sexual strategy, but also what to expect from the results of women’s previous decisions to effect them.

Guys ought to consider that by marrying or engaging in an LTR with former Sugar Babies they will not only deal with an Alpha Widow in terms of her sexual past, but also Sugar Daddy provider widows as well. Imagine the lifestyle switch to a lower socioeconomic status than what her former Daddy provided her with. Even dutiful Betas in Waiting will find their patience tested in competing with the previous lifestyle of a Sugar Baby.

Of course the easiest answer is always to recuse yourself from dating a Sugar Baby, to say nothing about entering an LTR with her, but as I mentioned earlier, hooking will be dating or some crossing of that line in the not so distant future. It’s important to bear this in mind, particularly when the transactional nature of it will run contradictory to the narrative that men are never owed sex for anything. The subcommunication is one of an implied contract, but the indignation will be one of men’s non-selected presumptions that sex is what’s being barter for.

From now and into the foreseeable future men must consider women from a realistic assessment of how their sexual strategies inform their decisions and base their own decisions accordingly. It’s also important to remember that the sexual market place differs in various contexts. Usually this context is reflective of the culture or social group engaging in, and reinforcing it. Women sexual opportunism doesn’t change, only how it’s expressed in a social context. Not all women are ‘Sugaring’, however the motives that allow for a normalization of it exist in all women – even the sweet nice ones who want to make a good impression on you.

It’s not impossible to engender a genuine desire in a woman. If that weren’t the case I wouldn’t be writing, but it’s important to be aware of how Hypergamy will evolved social dynamics to better facilitate its optimization. This can be a very damaging influence on both women and the men who attempt to navigate a sexual marketplace founded on unchecked Hypergamy.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scary – seems like you are trying to make a point no one is arguing against… Ego usually at fault here…

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Aw shit,😥 social conditioning just jumped the shark.

88’s…..

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient

reactions and the way people respond to certain situations is indicative of where their belief systems are at.

it’s the blue pill tell a lot of “TRPers” have.

the bitterness, the angst….

…it’s a sign of having not let go.

i’m just saying…..

let it go already.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

white and Asian girls have lower incidence of STDs than hispanic and black girls…one reason to prefer them…

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

and we are just saying – to who/what precisely was your comment aimed at?

do you not understand there is an actual difference between a literal whore and a vagina which may have a propensity towards whoredom?

Or are you just tooting your horn?

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient

do you not understand there is an actual difference between a literal whore and a vagina which may have a propensity towards whoredom?

sure there is, guy.

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Sentient, what the hell do we tell our daughters growing up now? I’d like to tell my daughter to not waste her value on lowlifes and try to find a nice alpha entrepreneur and have some babies as quickly as possible down the road, but man! So many landmines out there and now this. Rollo, what the hell are we fathers of daughters supposed to tell them?

emilyy96
6 years ago

I have a friend who’s in this arrangement.

She says they dont have sex. And as far as I know, she’s never even MET the guy. She just Skypes him sometimes and he pays half of her tuition. Sad :/

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Newlyaloof… You need to start by framing the entire dating/boy process as something YOU are very much involved in if not out right controlling… For me what was very successful to date (oldest of 4 girls is 24) was setting the frame that we have a NO DATING rule… until 18. and then not budging an inch on this… Turns out women respond to a strong frame heh? so after some mild shit testing (including wife, who agreed but couldn’t help trying to have it both ways lol) and passing said shit testing… Viola! No boys, no dating. seems that… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

“She just Skypes him sometimes and he pays half of her tuition. Sad:”

Sad because she wants full tuition payment…

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Oh and newly… give them advice… DO NOT isolate… how to put up the NO hand when a guy goes for a kiss etc.

The Question
6 years ago

I was thinking about the concept of “sugar baby” last night when it occurred to me I had a college classmate who had been in a similar situation. She was around 24/25 and engaged when I shared a couple classes with her, but she had dated a lawyer in his 40s when she was 21, 22. I cannot for the life of me remember how that topic had come up. She had remarked how it was awkward to date a man with a daughter her same age, how all of his friends’ wives were twice her age. She had broken… Read more »

Bart
Bart
6 years ago

The mostly interesting thing to me about this trend is the seeming inability of these girls to think long term. The primary reason they usually cite for SBing is tuition or some noble-sounding, career-building investment. Vanity Fair promotes this buffer with one of the article’s early quotes, from “Miranda,” about doing this for her career. Of course, what that career might be or why she wouldn’t just do informational interviews with mentors (or hell, take a class) to develop those skills is ignored. Like she has no other choice. They indulge in these fleeting luxury purchases to broadcast their falsely… Read more »

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Sentient, thanks man. Similar attitude to what you have. Wife already took it upon herself to get the kids these hand held devices that allow them to send email and play games. I already see signs of vombie-itis and may have to throw those fucking things in the toilet.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Newly…. lay down the no dating law and hold tight… easier to hold onto this position than to try and reset after the horse is out of the barn…

Start with the oldest, by the time the 13YO comes around… it’s a family tradition…

Now what to do with a boy? “That’s WHY it’s called a DOUBLE standard” works a charm!

The Question
6 years ago

@ Rollo Tomassi What’s going to be unbearable is when the man-up brigade within churchianity picks up on this and drags out the same tired old trope to blame this phenomenon on “manchilds” playing video games who won’t take responsibility for themselves, so the girls “had” to do it. It might sound absurd, but let’s not forget that one quote from Mark Driscoll about how rampant illegitimacy is really just immature men forcing women to have children out of wedlock “because there are no good men willing to marry them.” https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/driscoll-where-do-baby-mamas-come-from/ But at least Dalrock will have plenty of material… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Viola!”

Q: What’s the difference between a viola and an onion?
A: Nobody cries when you cut up a viola.

cheupez
6 years ago

Don’t mind if they do.

I forget who sang it but ..”girls just wanna have fun…oooooh girls wanna have fun..”

Pinelero
Pinelero
6 years ago

@sentient; I have a no boys rule right now, and I have a right of refusal for their future boyfriends. My girls are still young teens so it’s working. Also the daycare lady reinforces this message too.

I tells this to guys at work and I get the refrain: If you are too strict you’ll just push them away. and they won’t tell you anything. How was this handled?

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

Sheryl Sandberg’s husband died suddenly last year. Would the rich FB COO start dating within a year, and would she date for looks, money, status, call of duty, or youth?

March:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3474948/PICTURED-Facebook-COO-Sheryl-Sandberg-gaming-billionaire-boyfriend-Call-Duty-leave-LA-home-board-private-jet-together.html

Last week still together:

http://www.businessinsider.com/power-couples-at-allen-and-cos-summer-camp-for-billionaires-2016-7

Pinelero
Pinelero
6 years ago

Really… he needs an SB.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Pinelero “I tells this to guys at work and I get the refrain: If you are too strict you’ll just push them away. and they won’t tell you anything. How was this handled?” Yes you hear all kinds of BS like this… and stuff like “well they need to learn what it is like to date”… LOL shut that down with “wait, they need to learn at 16 how to get fingered and give blow jobs?” shut down… If there is nothing to tell there is nothing for them to tell you… and keep tight communications surveillance… and BS like… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Sandberg, 46, and Kotick have been friends for years”

Plan B guy identified.

constrainedlocus
6 years ago

I find it very interesting that it is married men who are the one’s most likely to take on these “Sugar Babies” as personal sexual prostitutes and arm candy. It raises some interesting questions about execution. For example, a “Sugar Baby’s” rent could run anywhere between $250 to several thousand dollars per month, depending where, and with whom (more sugar baby roomates?), she lives . That’s before we even get to the notion of paying her tuition bills, etc. which today would be exponentially more money than just rent. First, these men have to be upper income married men. A… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago

Interesting
https://youtu.be/LnH67G7vAu4

constrainedlocus
6 years ago

“She says they dont have sex. And as far as I know, she’s never even MET the guy. She just Skypes him sometimes.”

Yeah. Right.
Whatever makes her “feel” better about herself and the arrangement she will no doubt expound.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

I wasn’t gonna, but I can’t help myself – ” i mean, think about it….first and foremost, hot young pussy is in high demand by men everywhere. second, hot young white pussy is a status symbol par excellence in the U.S. ” ^^ This bullshit right here is a sad assed form of pedestalization if I ever saw one. Lol. Hey newbs and lurkers, if you have this kind of mindset, you should work to change that. I had to look at the calendar to make sure it was still 2016, and not 1816. If you believe that any WOMAN,… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

“Most wives in the West today are heavily, not lightly, involved in household budget allocations, bill paying as well as authoritarian approvers of the most pedantic of discretionary spending. They will check online bank accounts and credit card statements on the regular, like a cymbal monkey and squawk at the most unusual of transactions.” If you are in the upper middle class you usually own a business or some sort of personal services entity, and have an accountant. The accountants are very good in allocating funds to the correct personal accounts as you wish. If your wife is your business… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Constrainedlocus Most wives in the West today are heavily, not lightly, involved in household budget allocations, bill paying as well as authoritarian approvers of the most pedantic of discretionary spending. They will check online bank accounts and credit card statements on the regular, like a cymbal monkey and squawk at the most unusual of transactions. LOL… You need to be the one running your finances… and then give HER an allowance. THAT is the way to do it. Women really can’t handle the big picture issues and cash flow implications, the planning etc. They are good at staying on a… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“what is the MMSL site down today?”

Ouch.

fleezer
fleezer
6 years ago

“Women are just girls. If you believe that they convey some kind of status, you are still plugged into the Matrix.” or you’re red pill but you had to put in a lot of work to get what the naturals got for nothing. Blaximus, a natural, was up to his elbows in free snatch, early and often. Scray, a pua, was not. that might account for the difference in mindset. It’s very hard to not give a fuck about something you didn’t have, badly wanted and had to work very hard to get It’s very easy to not give a… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ fleezer Ok, understood. I just don’t want guys that are trying to sort things out to get that kind of misdirected message. Shit’s hard enough to figure out. scray’s stuff here is indispensable, and I can’t articulate things the way he does, but every blue moon he’ll state something that makes me go ” whatdafuck???”. Don’t get me wrong, I respect the effort scray has put in, absolutely 100%, and it’s impressive and great for guys just getting started to have him as a resource. I guess one of YaReally’s messages that kinda sunk into my head was to… Read more »

Henry
Henry
6 years ago

Hasn’t this been going on for centuries? The only difference would seem to be that now younger men and single men are resorting to having mistresses without the bother of also having a wife at home.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@blax ^^ This bullshit right here is a sad assed form of pedestalization if I ever saw one. Lol. if basic biology 101 is “pedestalization” hohkay…. do you NOT want to fuck hot young pussy? lol is the male sex drive not different in kind and degree than the female sex drive? like wtf If you believe that any WOMAN, regardless of COLOR is ANY kind of status symbol, you have bought into FI shit lock, stock and barrel. ya sure dude, that’s why rolling into the club with 5 hotties on your arm has NO EFFECT on your perception… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@fleezer that might account for the difference in mindset. It’s very hard to not give a fuck about something you didn’t have, badly wanted and had to work very hard to get It’s very easy to not give a fuck about something that was handed to you just because you existed you’re both wrong. you can use women to get other things…. …because yes, they have sexual value. and that can be converted. i mean shit, if you just wanna lay around and fuck chicks cool. better to do that AND incorporate them into your life to where you are… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ scray ” yup. here it is again: when you get far along enough in the game, you can get sex easily enough and so you want the women in your life to WORK FOR YOU. whether that involves getting free bottle service, making some huge sales, etc. etc. etc.” http://tellmewhyimwrong.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/a-pimp-named-slick-back.jpg Ok man. I’m not hatin’ at all. The value thing, as far as women, I struggle with just a bit. Everybody likes a pretty/sexy girl ( and most guys want to put their dicks in them..), but I’ve never, ever been a huge fan of men losing their shit… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ fleezer I’m late…. The Sopranos. On of my all time favorite shows. Most of the filming was around my neighborhood(s) and in adjoining towns. I live a mile from Cozarellis funeral parlor, where all of the funeral scenes were shot. It’s an actual place named Cozarellis, lol. I used to know that someone would get clipped in a season because the HBO trailers would be parked all around the place for a few days. Growing up in the 70’s, the wise guys were all over North Jersey. Sometimes I’d go out across the street from the club in Bloomfield… Read more »

Tom
Tom
6 years ago

People on here need to lose the idea that sex provisioning from women is not transactional just because a woman is not called a “Ho” and doesn’t take cash from her “trick” at the time of the fuck. Marriage is transactional. The accounting is just done using the accrual method rather than the cash basis method. Think about it. Have you never heard one girl say to another “Don’t waste your pretty,” or “You could do better than that.” The most openly transactional society in the world is not the USA (although it’s up there at the top.) IME it’s… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

we interrupt regular programming with an important rant from the FI and spokeswoman Jennifer Aniston, which reads in part: The objectification and scrutiny we put women through is absurd and disturbing. The way I am portrayed by the media is simply a reflection of how we see and portray women in general, measured against some warped standard of beauty. … The message that girls are not pretty unless they’re incredibly thin, that they’re not worthy of our attention unless they look like a supermodel or an actress on the cover of a magazine is something we’re all willingly buying into.… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@tom

check out the end of the trophy wife story I posted

“If you’re a woman in your 30s and 40s, it makes sense to seek someone who is financially stable, who is going to be there to provide for you and cherish you,” she says. “You can get all high and mighty and principled about these things, but anybody who says otherwise is flat-out lying.”

An interesting question is how much does AF pay for pussy, and in what currency?

kobayashii1681
6 years ago
Reply to  redlight

@redlight: On Alphas paying for pussy vis-a-vies currency…interesting…

Jedi Wonk
Jedi Wonk
6 years ago

Just curious, but how can women fake sexual desire? They lie there motionless, breathing so fast they are gasping, with their hearts pounding out of their chests while they soak my sheets, until every muscle in their abdomens convulses at once with their orgasm.

Wow, they all sure have *me* fooled!

scray
scray
6 years ago

@blax Ok man. I’m not hatin’ at all. lol…i mean, that image maybe was supposed to be a parody but…. ….more or less….YEAH Everybody likes a pretty/sexy girl ( and most guys want to put their dicks in them..), but I’ve never, ever been a huge fan of men losing their shit over them., whoa whoa. high demand != all men need to act like fucking idiots to get them (tho many do) They did nothing but be born, just like everybody else, and they get assigned a higher ” value “. It’s a mind fuck the way I see… Read more »

Jedi Wonk
Jedi Wonk
6 years ago

I am a member of the “Protector/Provider” specialty sex, while women (as much as it might be denied) are members of “Bearer/Nurturer” sex. Fulfilling my sex role gives my life meaning. I posted a profile on seekingarrangement.com back in 2010 as a “cover” for extracting one specific Chicago woman (21 at the time) from one specific domestically-violent relationship. I never selected anyone. The Chicago lady selected me. To my surprise, I got selected by *hundreds* of women. I spoke with one of the women yesterday for an hour. 6′-2″ of minor-league TV personality female beauty, 40 years my junior. 34… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@jedi wonk

About an hour before sex, complain about your work, how stressed it is making you, how depressed you are all the time, that you feel very sad about the shootings, that you feel like quitting and just playing video games, that you feel like a loser. Keep going for an hour, then say “well let’s have sex, it is the one thing left for me”, and let us know how the sex goes

Jedi Wonk
Jedi Wonk
6 years ago

The man who does not think that hot young women are status symbols sounds like he has never had a “10” on his arm in a big-league social setting. One weekend I had to make an emergency trip to New Orleans to sign a lease on behalf of a young woman I accidentally found myself putting through medical school. As long as I was there, we re-enacted the “Rodeo Drive” scene from the movies “Pretty Woman”. I still remember the looks I got from my male peers and the looks *she* got from their first wives. She had selected a… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@Playdontpay Why do you insist on posting your boring long ass field reports that are totally unrelated on every topic? I don’t give a fuck about your good mall/bad mall bullshit. Start your own blog if you feel the need to drone on I’m fed up of having to scroll through your tedious ramblings. A thousand apologies. So sorry to make you flick your mouse wheel for an entire three seconds. The physical effort required must be exhausting. @yareally @scray Changed where I am going. First comprimise location I liked because it was further away and has a fair number… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@hank

was only saying the word “white” as it was only used in your FR, not that it was in scary’s context.

I just did a word search as I scroll your FRs since I can’t be helpful to you (however when you have a big success just flag that at the FR start as we all like those stories, except if it involves an American Express Platinum Card)

carry on with FRs, will be useful to many others

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@newlyaloof “I think besides that though, it’s just a crap sandwich making zombies out of human minds. Sad to see these people walking around all day like that.” At least they’re out of the house and walking around all day. I don’t think getting kids out of the house and walking around congregating in spots where they may meet new people and learn to socialize and make friends is a bad thing in the longrun. I’d prefer that over sitting in their basement glued to an xbox playing single player games. @Sun Wukong Last posts are all depressed as fuck… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

@Sun! Holy hell thought ya died lol. Or at least were off making this horrible movie:

http://youtu.be/v33o9deALkA

So you come back from this ‘I-don’t-know-if-I-can-do-this’ vibe to banging teens and planning on taking to a life on the road, wandering the country with motorcycles. Way to be, man. Makin’ me feel bad about my 23yo FB lol.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@kobayashii ただいま @YaReally Haha, well I can’t say it’s a bunch of chicks yet. Still fumbling with day game a bit and getting used to pacing myself at daygame locations. However, I’ve started seeing my first results, and I’ve pulled a lot of numbers, gotten plenty of responses, and the one I have right now has followed me around the apartment like a puppy attached to me when I’ve had things to do after she showed up. First night she came by at damn near midnight, one thing led to another, and next thing I know it’s like 4PM the… Read more »

kobayashii1681
6 years ago
Reply to  Sun Wukong

@Sun – Good to have you back brother…

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Forge

HAH. My version would be far better animated, not child safe, and a lot more enjoyable.

Like me, basically.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
6 years ago

TOO MUCH TO REPLY TO ARG Good thread here. Not much time but I’ll hit two quick things. “lol she didn’t seem to mind when everyone was tuning into Friends to fap to her. ” Ya that was my first thought. I actually googled her to see if she was starting to look old. Girls get older and think that some negative evaluation has been added to them based upon our overvaluing looks- yet another burden foisted upon them by the patriarchy. They never consider that what happened was actually the removal of some special privilege they had simply been… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@All BTW, I came across this during my time away. I was looking at building a service to do a similar thing, but it actually looks like a better solution to the problem. For those who decide to use it, my ID is: ricochet:stxneizu2wywykhr Your ID on Ricochet is something you can safely post publicly so long as you avoid giving it to someone that could tie your real persona to your anonymous persona. Makes it an ideal tool to exchange contact info in a community like ours safely. Thought some of you might have a use for it. I… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

And I didn’t close my blockquote properly. Goddamnit.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@YaReally BTW, kind of had an epiphany that led to me asking the current chick to hang. I know I asked you about asking out waitresses and you said you generally do it, but then I noticed a pattern. While unattractive chicks will work a particular waitress for a long time, I rarely see attractive chicks do it. Sure enough a lot of the ones I’ve had interest in have bailed before I nutted up because I was always mincing about it. Busted a fuckit and decided to just get a number off one. We start banging a few weeks… Read more »

Raylan Givens
Raylan Givens
6 years ago

A fool and his money are easily parted

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Sun Wukong lol now you know why I throw out the close or invite to join us/me after her shift if we have a good vibe while she’s serving. I lost a toooon of hired guns I could’ve had if I had made a move, because I was stalling for time and didn’t realize the turnover rate is so high. Soon as you realize she’s no longer working there it’s like ahh damn (tho often you’ll find he working in another similar place lol). The way I view going for the number or after-shift instadate/hangout with a Hired Gun (that… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Culum Struan Move Hariri’s book “Sapiens” right now to the top of the reading list. Even if it is during or after your blitz week. It is so awesome for a red pill guy with game. It is a sublime read and gives so much direction to the thought “don’t forecast the future” and live in the moment and be red pill aware (how humans operate) and Game (bottoms up approach). For all of my last three years of striving, reading, and desiring of mastery over Game, this book has literally launched me over the threshold of conscience competence into… Read more »

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
6 years ago

@ Hank holiday Don’t apologise just stop doing it. Can you imagine how boring this comment section would be if we all posted FR’s in minute detail every time we went out and interacted with women? Think about that! What do you think your Field reports are adding to the discourse of Rollos topics here? Sure the odd FR here and there can be insightful or entertaining if something unusual / different worked, but like I said imagine if we ALL posted every interaction with females we have. Why do you think yours are so interesting/insightful? No matter what the… Read more »

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
6 years ago

Anyone else think it is insightful that the “sugar baby” in the main pic cannot even be bothered to correct the mistake on the card she’s holding so she just adds the missing word?

She’s asking for someone to pay her rent, something that many people have to spend around 1/3 of their income on and/or many hours working to pay for, yet she can’t even be bothered to spend the 10 seconds it would take to re-write her ad!

What does this say about her level of entitlement?

Women are as shitty as you let them be!

YaReally
YaReally
6 years ago

@Playdontpay
“What do you think you are adding here?”

Ya, he really should’ve focused on pointing out a girl making a spelling error that we can all see she made. You know, that hard-hitting content you contribute.

M Simon
6 years ago

YaReally July 11th, 2016 at 5:10 pm There was some outfit 30, 40 years ago that advertised women looking for a man and you exchanged letters. By fn mail. I played with one of those for some months until she got bored. I never sent her money or gifts. Later the outfit was busted for running a prostitution ring. Heh. We have come a long way. One nice thing about it. The woman had to be literate and convincing by mail. “We could meet up if you sent me travel money.” Fortunately I was broke. I think I might have… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

SJF July 12th, 2016 at 11:11 pm unconscious competence. Was shopping today with the LTR. At the checkout a 20 something “3” (at best) was mildly grumpy dealing with me and the LTR. As soon as the LTR headed for the car and I told the girl “Thank you VERY much.” I got the 1,000 watt smile. After long enough at it you don’t work Game. You are Game. Also every time any girl showed the slightest interest while we were shopping the LTR’s pussy got wet. You could smell it. After a long time together she has learned how… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

Blaximus July 12th, 2016 at 7:10 am This is too good. Buried in chasing electrical gremlins…damn. You should try leaky transistors with off resistances on the order of 10s of megohms. Fought that one for weeks until one of my cohorts figured it out. It was a VFD (vacuum fluorescent display) board. The mfg got back to us and said – mfg defect. That was around 35 years ago. Ya live. Ya learn. Or the TTL gate that was 20X as fast as expected. Played havoc with the PLL. It wouldn’t lock because of spurious pulses generated. About 2 pf… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

Reading through the thread and replying to stuff piecemeal: @Rocket (and also @Sorta Sugar Daddy)- Dude, you’re basically paying for an upscale hooker. Yes, I know it’s not exactly the same thing and there are differences, but if cash changes hands (or gifts etc) then it is close enough for me. That’s not meant to be an attack on you. I have no problems with hookers and think exchanging money for sex is totally legit and you DO get all the advantages you’ve listed. It’s just not something that I personally want. Like I want to feel genuine desire from… Read more »

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
6 years ago

@ Yareally Duh yea I know you can all see it! Are you saying the dynamic it illustrates is an invalid observation? Do you think she would have done this if it was on a CV she was sending to a potential employer? Of course she wouldn’t but she’s ONLY asking for some mush to pay her rent that she so deserves for having a pussy and not being fat. In other news I went to a mall today, it was in a nice town. The front door was made of frosted glass and there were flowers blooming around the… Read more »

Junior
Junior
6 years ago

@Playdontpay

Hank’s FRs are gold, just like Scray’s were when he started out. They add value because unless you’re the tiny minority that never had any problems getting attraction from quality girls & turning that into tangible results, people here can relate to his struggle & the growth he’s going through, & the advice given to him by more experienced guys here is priceless for all to see. Mindblowing that this needs explaining to you. Perhaps consider changing your moniker to “Paydontplay” given the value suck you’re generating thus far. Try at least attempting to contribute something of value.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

@Sun

Dude, come pick me up! 😛 Glad ur doin well.

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
6 years ago

@ junior Well I guess one mans gold is another mans trash. But if your suggesting reading Hank’s FR’s are a good way for newbies to learn to generate attraction with attractive women (most seem to be hb5-6 in his reports and I’ve not seen a lot of success ), then you probably need more help than you think. Me I can’t read them anymore, they all seem the same, they make my eyes hurt. If you honestly think we should all put postscripts of all our interactions with women on here ” to help each other by adding value”… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
6 years ago

@Playdontpay Hank’s FR might be a little long and off the ‘pure’ RP topic but really, the mouse wheel trick works and I scroll past when I don’t have time to read them. But occasionally I do and he impresses me – at least he’s out there trying unlike myself. Maybe after reading enough of his FR I’ll work up the courage. So he does help and add value to some of us. Also, Rollo’s site has no or few rules. RP can be anything and everything. Not 100% of us will appreciate 100% of the comments. Patience and understanding… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
6 years ago

Sugar babies reveal interesting facts about the nature of the sexual market place and the division of cohorts within it. Currently there is an excess of female tops (middle and upper earning females) and an excess of male bottoms ( lower income earning males). Welfare has effectively eliminated the male bottoms (non alpha, non baby daddies) from the sexual market place. Most male tops marry but the caterwauling at place like Aunt Giggles and Mark Evans Katz (who market to female tops) gives cause to think that there is a significant proportion of male tops playing the field. Add to… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@playdontpay

Lol, man c’mon.

FWIW, I think Hank’s FR’s are good. I read all of them. Hell, I read everybody’s fr’s.

It’s great to see guys getting out and trying things, then they write about it and get insight about their actions and thoughts. That’s what the sphere is about, right? Guys helping guys.

It’s an opportunity to watch men progress towards a goal by doing the work and accepting advice or criticism.

Here, there are guys that are happy to help. Men need more of that in life today.

So don’t hate, just scroll. No harm, no foul.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

“Can you imagine how boring this comment section would be if we all posted FR’s in minute detail every time we went out and interacted with women?”

shit, we need more FRs not less, acquiring pussy is RP in action

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
6 years ago

All the SB/SD thing is, is upscale hooking by another name. It’s always existed for truly upscale men — they just used to be called “kept women”, and there weren’t apps on the market to explode access to this kind of thing. I will say that it is *is* becoming much more common/prevalent, among not just college age women but also *attractive* women between 25 and 40 or so. It’s because (1) it’s becoming more widely known as a thing among all age levels of women, (2) the technology makes it painlessly accessible in a way that it wasn’t previously… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“That’s what the sphere is about, right? Guys helping guys. It’s an opportunity to watch men progress towards a goal by doing the work and accepting advice or criticism. Men need more of that in life today.” Exactly 1000% Rollo doesn’t moderate, he lets the tribe be a tribe (of men) sort it out in comments. Hank’s being accepted as a member of the tribe of commenters because he is demonstrating strength and courage and trying to develop mastery (even if he’s a newbie, we recognize that). That’s how goal directed tribes of men operate. In-group altruism. Hank is exhibiting… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Yareally – others And then how do you keep them on track but get them to also settle down into marriage in their prime when all of society is pushing them to ride the carousel as long as possible and they can’t see any wall in front of them? for one, model behaviors for them. i.e. I married at 23, kid at 24, same with some other family. Norm established… Yeah “society” if that is media and bloggers and other strangers… can say whatever it wants. actual culture is IRL… so what are you doing, what are your friends doing,… Read more »

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Sentient, good stuff. I have established discipline with my daughter. She can get away with some shit with her mother though. I often have to bail her out. And I have a fun relationship with my daughter too. I establish boundaries she accepts. And the little television I let them watch is of course cartoons on Nick, and I have to constantly tell her, “Don’t be like that bossy girl,” or, “See how she’s being rude to her father? I’d spank her butt if she acted like that to me.” etc. Now knowing how much women NEED boundaries to be… Read more »

Tom
Tom
6 years ago

@redlight >”An interesting question is how much does AF pay for pussy, and in what currency?” That depends. I’ve been blessed in my life to have been included in the circle of some genuine alphas in this big city of mine. 2 of them are married. Their $ costs are pretty much what you would expect for a married guy. The difference is- **both these guys have full, fuck-and-suck sex lives** resulting in a much lower Cost Per Fuck (CPF) than your average, dead-bedroom beta or clueless alpha wannabe. I also know some professionals & entrepreneurs who live downtown, work… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

Johnycomelately
July 13th, 2016 at 6:03 am

M/F ratios – an over view with studies cited. Not a dry paper. Interesting stuff.

Demographics

Tom
Tom
6 years ago

… and none of these guys are moralistic about escorts or prostitution. And to man they have brought in an escort when the itch absolutely needs to be scratched but they just don’t have time to phone a plate, spend the night with her and feed her in the morning.

Also, when they take a vacation, they have no problem getting chicks to go with them, and the understanding is always clear that sex is going to be a priority.

Playdontpay
Playdontpay
6 years ago

@ Hank and fans Nowhere did I say that what he’s doing isn’t to be admired or isn’t masculine, as clearly it’s both. I just feel that relaying every mundane detail is a bit tedious to read. Others clearly feel differently, and that’s all good. I wish him all the success he deserves for getting off his ass and putting the work in to improve in the field. I do the same every weekend but don’t feel the need to share everything in minute detail, but everyone’s different and if some guys on here are benefitting from Hank’s FR’s then… Read more »

Tom
Tom
6 years ago

… and shit like this:

> Nobody is talking about purity. We are talking about hoes, prostitutes, hookers, gfe, sex for money.

is for 99 percenters.

Listen up guys. Serious alphas don’t hold bourgeois concepts like “pure” girls-next-door and “impure” hookers. Madonna/Whore is for losers. These guys are too busy accomplishing things and making money to spend time on useless shit like that.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@tom

“They are happy to spend $ on women, but what they will not throw away is opportunity costs. This is the AF currency your average guy doesn’t think about. The lowest-paid guy among this crew makes $600/hr.”

I was going to write what it was like to run pure alpha, but it reads ufb. Let’s just say that it actually made me money, as women made business decisions that favored me, but the currency was my time.

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

@redlight: That’s my understanding of burden of performance: a man always pays. How much and what coin are deeply personal. We call those we consider to spend too much blue-pill. Regardless of the label, the man always pays.

M Simon
6 years ago

Sentient July 13th, 2016 at 7:48 am You can’t keep them off the drugs. You don’t have to keep them off the drugs. The vast majority of drug use is caused by PTSD. PTSD is genetics + trauma. If you don’t have the genetics you will not have the problem. If you have the genetics about 1/2 get enough trauma. Most of that is from child abuse. If PTSD runs in the family (it does in mine) be very careful about discipline methods. Drs. know all this. The general public is ignorant. Why isn’t this info “news” and in child… Read more »

digireaper
digireaper
6 years ago

Oh hi… I haven’t posted for a long time here. I think I should give a status report about my current situation. Last time I posted I mentioned that I was going to a vacation. Well, I ended up going to a cruise trip 2 months ago, alone. That was the first time I did that kind of travel, alone without my parents. In general terms, the trip was good, even though I will not do a cruise trip again tough. I made conversation with several people while I was on the ship and during a couple tours (no hot… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Rollo

Not only can it be bought, but the transaction is increasingly crossing into openly acknowledged social acceptability

I would say that the transactional nature of relationships has always existed… from ancient days the concepts and rituals of bride price and dowry developed… Often related to the ratio of men to women in the society.

Only since the development of mass media and lesure time has the blue pill notion of “true love” really flourished… in an effort to mask the hard transactional realities… while sowing the seeds for the destruction of western men in particular via feminism.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

One thing I learned by clicking on a link about 18 Things To Learn at a Sugar Baby Conference…

comment image

They are all fat… at least the ones paying for extra tutoring…

M Simon
6 years ago

Newbie game. Go where your mistakes will matter less. Places with high F/M ratios. College campuses. Don’t be a student. Find a reasons to visit, Libraries are good. Become a “student” of architecture.

That is where I started out in the 60s. It is even better these days.

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

@Sentient: My first response to the photograph as well. The second was: a price-fixing cartel.

M Simon
6 years ago

SJB
July 13th, 2016 at 9:59 am

The market only clears if the price is right. Supply/demand.

M Simon
6 years ago

An interesting supply/demand link re:college.

Demographics in College

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

@Rollo: why bother learning Game at all if the nature of women’s Game is just transactional and pussy can be bought? Not only can it be bought, but the transaction is increasingly crossing into openly acknowledged social acceptability – Dating IS hooking.

Game is useful in negotiating the transaction. I.e. Law #40 advises to pay full price but leaves off that prices are not necessarily fixed. The ideal price is time and materials: a couple of hours of your time and a couple of condoms. Well, each has his own idea of what is the ideal price.

M Simon
6 years ago

Durn. Dead link. Look up:

how college gender imbalances impact the social scene

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Digi,
Seems like you need to read this summary:
https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/why-yareally-need-to-learn-game/

SJB
SJB
6 years ago

@M Simon: I wonder how many female college students, toned and fit 6s and 7s, become SBs as the same-age Chads are taken by the 8+ girls.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@SJB

I wonder how many female college students, toned and fit 6s and 7s, become SBs as the same-age Chads are taken by the 8+ girls.

lol “taken?”

lulz

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“I was going to write what it was like to run pure alpha, but it reads ufb.”

Eyes Wide Shut was fiction, but it was not fantasy.

The Man
The Man
6 years ago

M Simon – that article you linked on Demographics – interesting. My take away (wrt the man/woman dynamic): 1) By way of feedbacks in the social milieu, and the differentiation of such feedbacks upon the innate differences between men and women, – the article implies that it turns out women indeed must have a soft power (but a real power nevertheless), that spells success and failure for a culture just as much as men’s harder conceptions of power, spells such success and failure. 2) You can’t see this unless you take the birdseye perspective, as the article you linked took… Read more »

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