The Meaning of Sacrifice

Take a deep breath and check your heart-rate before you hit play gentlemen (and ladies), you’re in for a ride.  In general I don’t necessarily promote nor disparage the MRA movement, but after watching this video I can better understand the contempt behind the groundswell. However, my point in posting this wasn’t to trigger any MRA outrage (The Spearhead and A Voice for Men has that covered), rather it was prompted by Rational Reader Dan’s comment in my 16 Years On post:

Rollo, you mention that men make a sacrifice of their desire for sexual variety and their sex life in general, when he marries.

But you are forgetting that for many men, marriage *is* the only or most feasible way to have a regular sex life. one-night-stands, flings, FWB’s, casual relationships – these are not for every guy. Most men dont get the opportunity to be promiscuous. Most men are simply not built for the going out in the jungle and hunting…physically or mentally.

I dont want marriage. I dont even want a committed relationship at this stage But I feel compelled to consider commitment and marriage because of my sexual / intimate needs. I am sure many mediocre young men are in the same boat as me. But you havent considered them here. You’re talking from the perspective of a man who is atleast relatively attractive and can sexually attract women with reasonable ease.

Forgive me Dan, I’m not trying to run you up the flagpole here. My assumption is that Dan hasn’t read Appreciation or Women In Love in their entirety. There’s much more to men’s sacrifices than just a trade off between a regular piece of ass and the potential for more varied sexual experiences. The predictable, feminized reflexive response is to presume that men would fixate on how their sacrifices would impact their sexual strategies, but sexual opportunism is only a single sacrifice among many. The feminine imperative would like nothing better than to have both men and women presume that men’s only concern is about the legs that might have been spread for them had they not opted for marriage, but there’s a lot more to men’s sacrifices.

As illustrated in this video, career, relationships, family, education, and the overarching threat of losing all of his investments in a no-fault divorce are all very real risks men tend not to consider and women would rather they not. A lot of men lament losing half (or more) of their financial assets, but what gets lost in that is the personal investments necessary to establish those assets. Those investments required a sacrifice of time, effort, emotion, determination, etc. and all whilst maintaining an intimate relationship with a woman who cannot appreciate in-full the totality of those sacrifices – because she never experienced them from a male perspective. Men’s sacrifices are only appreciated through the filter of women’s expectations and perceived benefit.

At 46 years old, I have no doubt that Charles Bruce had well over half a lifetime of personal investment into himself, his wife, their family and extended families. For most Men, and manosphere readers in particular, the initial response to Mr. Bruce’s dilemma is one of (understandable) blind rage at the feminized system. As hard as it is, I’m going to ask that readers look past this anger and see the conditions, investments and sacrifices Bruce made that makes his story so tragic.

BRIFFAULT’S LAW

The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place.

In other words, hypergamy doesn’t care about Relational Equity. It’s one set of conditions to consider this in terms of how your girlfriend might’ve cheated on you in spite of all your best efforts to invest in your relationship and play by the “rules”, but it’s entirely another when you consider fallacy of Relational Equity in terms of a life long, expected, entitled, commitment. Charles Bruce is on the sharp end of women’s inability to appreciate men’s sacrifices.

If you’ve ever wonder why no male hormonal contraceptive has ever been developed or marketed since the sexual revolution, look no further than Briffault’s Law. For all the bleating about equalism and gender equality of the past 60 years, women have effectively organized and fought like cornered animals to keep the power of controlling the family unit out of the hands of men.

I’ve read studies documenting men’s most productive, creative, endeavors being attempted and/or achieved in the years before they married; innovations, academic degrees, scientific discoveries, great masterpieces of art. etc. Then, a precipitous drop off in what we are meant to assume is ambition and motivation occurs after marriage. Roissy has more than a few links to these articles, but my impression of these studies is less about the neutering effects of marriage (i.e. the responsibilities of settling down) and more about the lack of opportunity inherent in maintaining a committed monogamy and addressing the sacrifices a man must make to advance his interests. Missing opportunities to get laid with new and varied women pales in life-importance when you consider the sacrifices a man makes in having to turn down opportunities that would advance his (and possibly society’s) better interest. Women are the Dream Killers because they cannot appreciate men’s sacrifices.

This is an interesting quote from a man citing Briffaults Law:

“Men love women, but I truly believe that women are incapable of what we men call love. “Greater love hath no man than that he lay down his life for his friends.” How many women are willing to die for their husbands, friends, country, or comrades in arms? Damn few, if any.

Yet it is commonly expected of men (made compulsory under certain circumstances). How many men continue on in their marriages, supporting their family and their wife, while the wife is making their life a living hell? Far too many. How many men choose their wives over their parents and siblings? Most.

Women do not behave like this. Men take out large insurance policies so their wives and children will be well taken care of should they die. Even if the wife is making (nearly) as much money as the husband, she will not have insurance. She sees no reason to reduce her current ability to spend to take care of others after she is dead. She could care less what happens to the husband, and doesn’t want the husband to be able to spend money on some young bimbo, after she dies. The life insurance gender statistics are well known, and widely available. None of this should be a shocking revelation. When my second wife died, her mandatory insurance (free) provided by her teacher’s union covered her funeral expenses. It would have made life much easier if her insurance had paid the over $350,000 my life insurance would have paid.

When does the expectation of mutual benefit in marriage go seriously wrong in the west? It goes wrong as soon as the “I Dos” are said, or very shortly thereafter. Why is this so? Because you, the man have just entered into a contract with the state where you have promised that you will provide everything to your bride, and where the bride has promised nothing. By the way, the full weight of the law and public opinion will support her stripping you of every thing you have, including your children, and most of what you will ever make in the future, when (not if) she decides to dump you.

Hence, once you enter into the contract you have nothing left to offer her. Everything you have, or will have, is already hers.

Seem like a harsh statement? I thought so too, the first time I heard it, during an argument with my first wife towards the end of our marriage. She asked me the eternal female question, “What do you do for me?” (i.e. what benefit do I get from associating with you?) I responded, “I pay all your expenses. I feed, clothe, and house you. And, I am paying for your college tuition.” She told me that all the money I earned was her money and that if she let me have any of it that was pure charity on her part, so I was doing nothing for her. I thought this was unduly harsh.

The divorce courts showed me that it was pretty much just a statement of fact. The wife has it all, and can make her part of the marriage contract, the portion where she is to provide you with companionship, comfort, loyalty, sex, etc., null and void at any time while keeping everything you have/had/will ever have. She has no need to associate with you further once you are married.

To be a married man entais a sacrifice of such utter powerlessness, on so many levels, that no woman will ever comprehend, much less appreciate.

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A.B. Dada
Guest

This is extremely solid. Posted on my FB — can’t wait to see what the lizards say (although the vast majority of my female FB fans are submissive women who are really happy with their dominant men). A man should not risk marriage until he’s at his peak in life: owns his house free and clear, as an irrevocable living trust for his investments, has consistent and varied income streams. Once he has reached his peak, THEN he can find a woman to marry. And, he can teach her from the start that what’s his is his, and it’ll stay… Read more »

Guy
Guest
Guy

I know Charlie Bruce and his ex-wife. What is going on is at lot worse than you see in this video. Our kids go to school together in Denver. His ex-wife wife is nuts. Everyone knows this, and yet little has happened to her. She still has her law license and somehow manages to find the money to send her 2 kids to private school and take nice vacations. She sues her son’s soccer coach for supposedly treating her son badly. She stalks people she doesn’t like. But really, she has suffered few consequences. Side benefit–it’s opened my wife’s eyes… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

Getting regular sex is not a sufficient reason to marry, even in the unlikely event that 1) you were having good sex before you married and (2) the good sex continues after you marry.

Today, the only sufficient reason a man should marry is because he wants his own children; and even that is dwindling as a sufficiency.

A.B. Dada
Guest

I’m going to add one more thing as a reason to marry: 2. Long term care Based on the rule I posted in my original comment, a man can easily find his peak in his late 30s early 40s. I’m a testament to that, and so are many of my male peers. We also have zero trouble attracting women of peak child-rearing years (late teens, early 20s). If I am 60 and she’s 40, my testosterone may start decreasing at the same time that her sex drive (procreation drive) will start to fall. It’s a great time for her to… Read more »

Ras Al Ghul
Guest
Ras Al Ghul

Excellent.

Only thing I would add, is anyone that thinks that marriage is the ticket to intimacy and companionship, they are deeply mistaken.

Especially in today’s culture.

There are successful ones but they are few.

There is nothing lonlier than being alone with some one.

Samuel Solomon
Guest

I have seen that video before, and my story is almost exactly like Mr. Bruce’s. I also live in Colorado. Ex-wife sent me to jail for not paying money I did not have due to circumstances I couldn’t control. (Realtor in housing collapse) My children were harmed, and I lost every shred I had not already lost in divorce, when I went to jail. When I got out I had no job, no car, no money, no home, and no possessions, except for my old laptop and my bass guitar. Not a chair. Not a plate or fork. I was… Read more »

A.B. Dada
Guest

Samuel: Move to a European country that respects strong labor. Then apply for citizenship and give up your US passport. I’ve been traveling to Europe and Central America on the regular for 2 years, and am regularly meeting ex-patriots with similar stories. Some of them work as waiters or bartenders in heavy tourist areas, some of them work on beaches pushing kayaks into the water, some of them drive hotel buses to and from the airport. They’re all happier. The women they’re with (not wives) treat them with respect and love and attention. They’re far from massive urban build-out with… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

Brutal.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

It was kind of hard for me to press the ‘Publish’ button after I wrote this in light of my 16 Years post on Monday. Mine is an example of a perfect storm, so I have trepidations about being some role model for people to aspire their marriages, or their estimation of marriage about. It’s really difficult to say ‘beware of marriage’ because it automatically gets conflated with ‘beware of women’. Which it probably should, but in doing so it illustrates the synonymousness with which we associate women & marriage. Women = marriage. They own the institution, they own the… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

When I read Dan’s comment it made me shake my head. The worst scenario for getting married is when you *need* her because you would be a loner sexless wolf otherwise. It has the worst case scenario stamped all over it.

Days of Broken Arrows
Guest
Days of Broken Arrows

I wish there was a way I could reply directly to the commenter. AB Dada said: “A man should not risk marriage until he’s at his peak in life: owns his house free and clear, as an irrevocable living trust for his investments, has consistent and varied income streams. Once he has reached his peak, THEN he can find a woman to marry.” Actually I disagree with this. I think that the more a man has earned and accumulated the more he can lose. The only time marriage makes sense is when both people are penniless in their early twenties.… Read more »

Kuraje
Guest
Kuraje

These stories keep me sober and focused on building the life I’ve always dreamed of building. I can literally chart the vast difference in accomplishments of when I’ve been single vs. committed relationship.

Looking at data over the years from Mint.com:
Relationship: Income down. Debt up. Net worth negative.
Single: Income doubled. Debt non-existent. Net worth positive.

The switches between the two periods literally happen in the span of 2-3 months entering the relationship and again 2-3 months upon exit.

heh.

A.B. Dada
Guest

Since my divorce to Mrs. BPD Dada in my late 20s, all my income is protected. All my assets are protected. I don’t have debt (she ruined my credit anyway), so if I have it, I own it, or I rent it through a corporate umbrella/shield. If you’re young and you build something and are married, she’s got you. It’s hers, too, according to the law. It’s a huge risk. If you’ve reached your peak (or at least, the initial part of it), you can protect your assets and your future, and use that obvious protection to keep her hamster… Read more »

krauserpua
Guest

Agree with all of the above. I’ll never remarry. When the time comes to have children my assets will be untouchable. Under the current communist tax regime in the UK, I have no incentive to earn more than I can immediately spend. Add to that no reason to accumulate before marriage, and the Western economy is being deprived of one of it’s top quartile wealth producers due to it’s socialist/feminist regime.

A.B. Dada
Guest

Krauser:

My tax shyster in Ireland told me that UK citizens *can* Double Dutch Irish Sandwich their assets, even though the UK government frowns on it.

Have you considered that triple incorporation method, or are your income streams too low to benefit?

krauserpua
Guest

I have minimal income right now. When I work again, I’ll be seeking tax advice to keep as much of my money out of the commie’s hands as legally possible

A.B. Dada
Guest

Being a UK resident will make it easier for you — legal advisors are just a short trip on RyanAir away. My cost to start the arrangement was well under 1000 Euro, but I’m not using it to protect my assets yet. It’s a trick situation because it relies on intellectual property income, although my financial advisor in the Caribbean focuses on small to medium businesses and settles the IP issue by forcing the businesses to produce services or products at a TINY profit, with the majority of profit being paid to the IP owner offshore (your Double Sandwich corporations).… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

“The only time marriage makes sense is when both people are penniless in their early twenties.” Then the guy works his ass off, gets money buys a house etc the wife takes care of the two kids, then divorces, keeps the house the kids half the money and gets alimony plus child support, the guy keeps working but all his money goes to pay for his ex-family’s lifestyle. If the guy waits till he’s rich he has an upperhand, and he can use to set the rules of the relationship. If / when divorce comes, he will split 50% of… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

In short marriage doesnt make any sense anymore. It’s not more about monogamy and it’s not about kids and it’s not about spiritual commitment. Marriage as we have now is a form of slavery. Dont do it.

Be monogamous if you want have kids if you want. Dont marry.

Jon
Guest
Jon

That’s a powerful video – a good counterbalance to your 16 years of marriage article.

A.B. Dada
Guest

Yohami: 50% of the proceeds that HE as an INDIVIDUAL produced, not that he was party to earning for a corporation or irrevocable living trust. If the proceeds that HE as an INDIVIDUAL are calculated as only what the cost of living would bear, they’ll be minimal. Remember, no mortgage, home is corporately owned and paid for (no individual burden for property taxes, insurance, utilities, etc), his car is corporately owned and paid for, travel alone is for business purposes (unless he hires his wife as a part time assistant and incorporates work into travel, which is a risky tax… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

It’s scary. The video could happen to Rollo too, if his wife wanted. It could happen to Athol as well. Maybe they wont, but they have the power to. I´ll never go there.
[This is exactly why I say women will never appreciate men’s sacrifices to facilitate a woman’s reality. My wife, Athol’s wife, neither understand nor have the capacity to appreciate the gravity of the risks men assume in marriage.]

YOHAMI
Guest

A.B.Dada, long live to corporations.

A.B. Dada
Guest

They’re people, too!

Jon
Guest
Jon

>>If the guy waits till he’s rich he has an upperhand, and he can use to set the rules of the relationship. If / when divorce comes, he will split 50% of the assets he produced during the marriage, but he´ll keep all he had prior to it. That approach doesn’t work in the UK….. And then there’s the specter that any current legislation or law can be changed retrospectively by a future Government. Cohabitation rights are a small step away and then how do you define cohabitation – I slept over 2 nights last week or didn’t leave until… Read more »

Coy
Guest
Coy

Why play a game you can’t win?

A.B. Dada
Guest

Jon: That’s no excuse. If the laws are especially bad (meaning, incorporation or irrevocable living trusts can’t protect assets), change your residency. You can even “move” to a tax haven by incorporating a business there (akin to the US C-corp) and having that business own your local business in whatever country you’ve got “temporary” residence in.

Jon
Guest
Jon

>>You can even “move” to a tax haven by incorporating a business there (akin to the US C-corp) and having that business own your local business in whatever country you’ve got “temporary” residence in.

That’s quite neat.

wudang
Guest
wudang

What is the difference between the life of this man and the life of a slave that after not being able to work hard enough gets physically whipped? I can`t really see any difference.

Stingray
Guest

My wife, Athol’s wife, neither understand nor have the capacity to appreciate the gravity of the risks men assume in marriage. I am not sure that we can appreciate it fully, as you said. I couldn’t ever do to my husband what so many women have done (I haven’t watched the video yet. Won’t while the kids are around). Now, many men here would say, “Yes you say that now, but women talk about how the feel right now”, and they are, for the most part, correct in saying this. For me to have the capacity to appreciate the sacrifice,… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

Even if a person does not have legal claim to assets you had before marriage, that doesn’t mean you can’t lose them. I had to sell almost everything I had to buy my ex out of the marriage because that was the price he set. I could not handle him any longer and I wanted it over as quickly as possible. My only consolation in losing 140K is the fact that I didn’t throw him out penniless. I can look myself in the mirror and know I did my best. When my daughter is away from me she is not… Read more »

gregg
Guest
gregg

I do not want to write about things I witnessed in courtrooms, it could demotivate young men from starting families which is the last thing I want. But I have to admit, that according to my experiences and experiences of my buddies and clients…………loyalty is just not there with women. This simple thing is enough to think twice about any situation in which she has direct power over you, your future children and/or your estate or when you are pushed to sacrify your buddies, your values, your freedom, your time – for her. Do not give more that you could… Read more »

Rob
Guest
Rob

“once you enter into the contract you have nothing left to offer her. Everything you have, or will have, is already hers.”
_______

More true than you can know unless you were married for almost 25 years and the infidelity of the person you trusted most and how the legal system converts men to permanent servitude for the privelege.

John Galt
Guest
John Galt

Broken Arrows – not to pile on, but AB brings up some very good points in asset protection. My situation – I am single and 38. About 7 years ago I put almost all of my assets into a multi-member LLC. Through my LLC and a pre-nup (belt and suspenders!), I should be covered (my attorney is a “family office” attorney that deals with these issues on a consistent basis) if I ever lose my mind and decide to get married. However, if I married my college girlfriend at age 23 (when my assets were a big fat zero), she… Read more »

Phaedrus
Guest
Phaedrus

“To be a married man entais a sacrifice of such utter powerlessness, on so many levels, that no woman will ever comprehend, much less appreciate.”
—–
Second wives often comprehend, and some might even appreciate…

koevoet
Guest
koevoet

One thing I was wondering about, could the monastery be an option for those so inclined after a divorce? If you are going to live in abject poverty anyway, why not take a vow of poverty? I would think that Separation of Church and State would keep child support and alimony from being able to throw you in debtors prison. I have considered this because many monks become educated, have time to read and write, many monasteries have their own publishers. There is a lot of work in a monastery but I think it would be much more rewarding than… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

koevoet: You’re talking about constitutional protections being invoked for divorced men. I hear it’s been tried on various grounds (involuntary servitude, due process) and basically rejected. Federal courts don’t want to get involved in state court family matters, for the most part. It’s considered that these family court matters resolving disputes between two persons and providing for child support just aren’t of constitutional importance. This is an interesting conundrum, since federal courts have also uniformly decided that parents have rights to see, raise and have relationships with their children, and that these rights ARE of constitutional importance. Loading...

Lib Arts Major Making $27k/yr At An Office Job
Guest
Lib Arts Major Making $27k/yr At An Office Job

The following mirrors my personal experience: Modern young men growing up with easy access to pornography can become disillusioned with sex. In fact, even without having had sex before, I inevitably came to the conclusion at a relatively young age that sex was of little importance considering how easily I could access sexual stimulus. That said growing up, I eventually considered the possibility of marriage. A cursory cost-benefit analysis provided me with a simple answer: modern marriage forces the man to risk everything. Normally in life, risks are taken in order to yield some benefit. I could not identify any… Read more »

MNL
Guest
MNL

What’s really interesting to think about is where this train is finally going to stop. I have. And I’m not optimistic. It may not be realized in our present generation, but history has shown over and over again that there’s a tipping point once cultures reach a critical mass of disenfranchised men. It doesn’t take a majority. But when enough men realize–say, by watching the example of this fellow here–that there’s little benefit to attempting a genetic stake in the future, little benefit to maintaining the social-sexual order, then no amount of male shaming and no amount of police-state tactics… Read more »

Days of Broken Arrows
Guest
Days of Broken Arrows

To the people who answered my qu: thanks for the info. No one was “piling on.” I had no idea about these things but do now. Looks like I’m like AB — I got in and got out before I had anything. I just need to know what to do to protect what I worked for. One of the problems I’ve long found as a Gen X-er is that the Baby Boomers I should be able to ask about this stuff are totally unhelpful. They either think this whole topic is “a load of hooey” or me “being paranoid” or… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

Baby Boomers: as in the generation refusing to retire, clogging up the workforce so young people can’t get jobs? Thanks for the idea!

A.B. Dada
Guest

My ex-wife cost me 7 figures in actual money lost, spent and distributed in divorce. I definitely did not come out of it financially unscathed, it took me years to recover completely, and that money is still gone.

Ras Al Ghul
Guest
Ras Al Ghul

Rollo, This is perhaps the most honest answer I’ve ever read from an apparently happily married man: “I had a number of people ask me after Monday’s post if, were I to lose Mrs. Tomssai (God forbid) for some reason, would I ever consider remarrying. The answer is a resounding ‘No’. Not because I’ve ‘learned my lesson’ but because I know too much now. I realize what I have, but I also realize the very, very black side of marriage and how hypergamy works, far better than I ever did when I got married. I know how good it can… Read more »

Big Pimp
Guest

Whew ! Just turned 33, single, no kids, never married. Thank Goodness.
🙂

The Association of Chronos
Guest
The Association of Chronos

First time Commenter, long time reader….

Rollo, this is too far man. I’m going back to the “Blue pill”. I want the “Steak to be real” as Cypher said (Matrix joke)…. Ha. But man, Wow. Its true. Its a Bitter taste as you stated in a previous post from back then.

http://youtu.be/Z7BuQFUhsRM

All jokes aside, how can any Man go back to the “Blue Pill” after something like this. Great post as always

FFY
Guest

“When the love is gone, she can be as cold to you as if you were someone she never met”

paraphrasing Roissy maxim # whatever

FFY
Guest

@Days “One of the problems I’ve long found as a Gen X-er is that the Baby Boomers I should be able to ask about this stuff are totally unhelpful. They either think this whole topic is “a load of hooey” or me “being paranoid” or are too smug to answer” Couldn’t have put it better myself (though I’m a Millenial). A lot of the Boomers I know bask in their marriage stability that came from tying the knot before shit got real bad, and as such have lived life completely ignorant of or unwilling to look at all the divorce… Read more »

nek
Guest
nek

@MNL

I wonder what a society with that level of disenfranchisement looks like. I completely agree with you though. The problem with this is that it kills my motivation for a lot of things. I see the cliff, I’m sure others see it, yet we keep driving towards it. So, what’s the point?

not_PC
Guest
not_PC

Hello. God, that’s scary shit. *shudder* I can relate to this, I’m about to get married, *gulp*. Thoughts and advice? I’ve been following Rollo’s blog since finding out about it from Heartiste. @A. B. Dada, I have a question for you. You said that many American men moved out to tropical farming communities. Could you please provide more details? What countries? What steps have they taken to accomplish this? What do they do and how do they live? I can survive without modern conveniences, but I _have_ to have at least 1 computer and an internet connection 🙂 . What… Read more »

Mike C
Guest
Mike C

I’m stunned. You watch something like this and you can see how someone could just lose it. Remarkably, he seems rather calm about the whole thing. Perhaps he is broken and just resigned to his fate.

As some might know, I’m taking a second chance at this marriage thing. I think I screened very hard and have chosen wisely, but you never really know. I try to follow Reagan’s dictum “Trust but Verify”.

not_PC
Guest
not_PC

I flat out told my fiance that I will paternity test each and every kid that she gives birth to. She can leave it or take it.

ThousandMileMargin
Guest
ThousandMileMargin

Regarding asset protection: Your assets may be protected, but you are not. If you are physically within a court’s jurisdiction, the court can order you to produce details of any trusts or corporations that you may receive a benefit from. If you refuse, you can be jailed for contempt of court. Indefinitely. They’ll just bring you out after 6 months, and ask again, and if you refuse they send you back for another 6 months, and so on. Once they have details of your protected assets, the court can decide to “take these assets into account” when making an order.… Read more »

Random Angeleno
Guest
Random Angeleno

Mr. Bruce’s story is very nasty. If I didn’t already know some extreme stories of men I know well, I might find that one hard to believe… but having trod this ground with them, well, not so hard. The important thing is that as with other things with extremely negative impact, it has happened often enough that more and more of us have heard the worst, that the stories get around the block and then suddenly the light bulbs go on everywhere. Kind of like drunk driving: over the years, enough people got killed or seriously injured by drunk drivers… Read more »

blackbird.young
Guest

I just wrote for an hour in response to this. But I’ll be posting that elsewhere once I edit it. Very depressing. I’m beginning to realize much concerning the nature of reality. It’s bullshit, all of it really. Anything we learn doesn’t make a difference. There are those who where the masks and those who are behind them and those that design the masks to be worn and those that aren’t smart enough to even wear one that believe other’s aren’t even wearing masks at all. Weird comment and I would slap the bitch that did this to this man… Read more »

blackbird.young
Guest

Edit: much of what we learn doesn’t seem to make a difference.

ThousandMileMargin
Guest
ThousandMileMargin

Rollo, Maybe women are hardwired not to appreciate men’s sacrifice. It’s part of a general tendency to downplay the value of anything men offer, as a negotiating tactic. If women place little value on whatever men bring to the relationship, it’s easier for them to hold out for more and drive a harder bargain. Maybe they evolved the ability to genuinely not see what men do for them, or to treat it as an entitlement, so they can push for more concessions without feeling bad about it. So sexual intercourse gets framed as a gift to the man, rather than… Read more »

Days of Broken Arrows
Guest
Days of Broken Arrows

“You don’t see that dynamic between men. Buying me a beer every Thursday for a year doesn’t create a lifetime obligation to pay for my drinks.” Good observation. I’ll add: nor do you see this dynamic between employee and employer or child and parent. Or between corporation and consumer. In fact, nowhere else does this pay-forever relationship exist between two humans but between husband and wife. The only way to make sense of this is to say that if you provide for a woman for a significant period of time she becomes your owner, and you her slave. Cohabitation,regular sex… Read more »

strikeforcemori
Guest

After watching that video for the second time (I watched it almost a year ago), I realised how lucky i was with my divorce, luckily for me I was still young and I didn’t have any assets of mention. I always mentally go back to that video and other hellacious stories I hear through the grapevine whenever I’m harangued by friends of a woman I’ve been consistently seeing for years to marry her. I always just give them a disgusted look of contempt and say “where is the benefit of marriage for me?” I can honestly say there really is… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

A side story that reinforces the post, an avowed MGTOW told me of his experience last week. The friend (36) has his own payed off home, car and a good paying blue collar job, he has been dating a girl (30) for two years and decided to tie the knot. He got married and went on a honey moon, the next day after the honey moon his newly wed wife demands a divorce. She sites that she has been cohabitating with him for two years and is entitled to half his estate (this is in Australia). Fortunately for him he… Read more »

Gabrielle
Guest
Gabrielle

I can see how men would think all women want is their money. It is not true for everyone. When two people approach marriage as all or nothing then there is a different agenda. My husband and I against the world. That is how it we have made it. Now, I would like to ask where is the sacrifice for men if the wife stays home caring for the home and children? You get up, work, come home. I get up, work normal 15 to 17 hours caring for children, home, family and most importantly my man. If my husband… Read more »

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[…] Thank god for some time for the red pill. As Rollo always says, no woman inherently understands The Meaning of Sacrifice. I doubt she’s a snowflake nor a unicorn. As such, I’m starting to frame my thoughts on […]

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

@ThousandMileMargin: Your post about the asset hiding/jail was very helpful to me. A guy who disappeared on me was having legal issues and once mentioned his assets were being seized and the state felt he was hiding more. I was concerned he’d go to jail; he downplayed that possibility. After his disappearance, again, I was worried that was what happened. He told me it was a tax issue, but after reading all that I have here, it seems equally possible that it was an alimony issue. Something that might be important for readers to know is that even bankruptcy does… Read more »

driveallnight
Guest
driveallnight

….and standing happily exhausted, gold medal around its neck, GK’s hamster then looks directly into the camera: “I’m going to Disneyland!”

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

You seem to be confused by a smiling avatar. Maybe when you’ve shattered someone else’s life or had your own shattered, you’ll understand that the ability to smile is a small miracle. The whole point of articles like these is to remind you that you are not immune: that these things don’t only happen to other people.
“send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.”
-Donne

not_PC
Guest
not_PC

How about investing in yourself? You spend time and sweat to become healthier, learn new languages and such. If she files for divorce, they can’t take that away from you. What are they gonna do? Cut out some of your muscle mass and have you eat donuts?

Wilson
Guest
Wilson

Case in point: Gabrielle. A man’s labor of 60 hours/week meeting the demands of his boss is nothing, he owes her big time because she hung out at home with the kids. Work is fun and easy, while childcare is the hardest job in the world, so it’s only fair that in a divorce she gets all the man’s money, and then some! I’ll grant that she should gain some equity for her unskilled labor, but her kids “owe” her most of that debt, not her husband; and all of her expenses should be deducted. It would be interesting if… Read more »

driveallnight
Guest
driveallnight

Relax GK, I’m just admiring your ex-bf’s badboy game. A year and a half has passed, but the guy’s still in your head to the point where you’re doing the message-in-a-bottle thing (“Perhaps, somehow, the message will reach him.”)

driveallnight
Guest
driveallnight

“Ask not for whom the douchebag smirks, he smirks for thee.”
-Roissy

not_PC
Guest
not_PC

Wilson. I disagree. There are expectations in any relationship. As a man, you are expected to do some things (make sure no one starves to death, roof over house, clothing, sometimes step into certain dramas and lay the law, even if unfair, etc.) as a woman you are also expected to take care of some things (feed the kids, please your husband, take care of the house, make sure that while they’re there, the kids don’t do anything too stupid, etc.) Granted to some degree this is the ideal, but it’s not impossible. There are some women that want this.… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest

Well, if you think that is something to aspire to, you should buy yourself a drink for the tears your insensitive remarks have caused today.

driveallnight
Guest
driveallnight

You don’t have to “aspire” to something to “admire” its efficiency (see: femcentrism, aka Girlworld). So, you can drop the strawman bullshit and concomitant attempted guilt trip whenever you’re ready.

Every woman has a hamster. You hang out plenty in the manosphere; you’re well aware of badboys’ attractiveness to females, “Five Minutes of Alpha,” etc. All I did was document the hamster’s power by noting how even the rare “red pill” woman as yourself can be blind and/or susceptible to it.

Gabrielle
Guest
Gabrielle

Not PC, I laughed at your comment because it is true about me and I proudly admit it. I know that I want my husband to sex me up, give me babies and help me control my head when needed. I LIKE being dominated. I just didn’t know it for a long time. Wilson, you seem to think that the man making all the money is beginning and end whereas I think when husband and I work together we should be seen as coming together for the greater good of our family. A mans work does not make him worth… Read more »

blackbird.young
Guest

Schopenhauer is Game.

GeishaKate
Guest

The only thing that’s bullshit is thinking we should live in a world where shame doesn’t exist at all. The events that I wrote about above happened before, not after, I came here. Nobody comes here and goes, “Oh yeah, I already knew all this.” If I fall for the same trick twice you can make fun of me all you want, but I don’t see anyone else getting laughed at for sharing their stories.

b-166er
Guest
b-166er

its bad for this guy, but its not the end of the world.

its never too late to lift weights and convert to Islam.

Skilaki
Guest
Skilaki

I am a 43 year old guy who has never been married. Half of my male friends are divorced and roughly half of them have been economically devastated by it: losing their homes, paying enormous amounts in alimony and child support as well as feeling like strangers to their own children. What is scary is that quite a number of my still-married male friends have privately admitted to me that they wish they could get out of it. They thought in retrospect that marriage was not what they thought it would be, that the romance has gone away, sex is… Read more »

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[…] Rational Male – 16 Years On, The Meaning Of Sacrifice […]

Emma the Emo
Guest
Emma the Emo

After getting to know that stuff about dangers of marriage, it’s not that I started appreciating the sacrifices men made for it, it’s more that I realized it’s like asking a man “Can I please plant a small non-lethal (but painful) bomb in your body and keep the button to detonation? I won’t use it, but can I have that?”

anonymouse
Guest
anonymouse

@ Gabrielle “Really the biggest issue is that you think all I would want to do is take my husbands money. It is not I assure you. When a person thinks they are with the greatest person already then why would they leave for a lesser person or so called freedom? My husband is the best man for me and I have no desire to rob my children of his wonder and glory.” If he loses his “wonder and glory” you’ll drop him at the kerb so fast he’ll never see it coming. And you’ll tell yourself it was because… Read more »

A.B. Dada
Guest

@Not_PC, got your comment on my blog — for some reason I didn’t get a notification email for your response above. “You said that many American men moved out to tropical farming communities. Could you please provide more details? What countries?” I have friends in El Salvador and Costa Rica, one in Estonia (limited visa potential, endless female potential), two who are hopping through South America, a guy in Nevis who received citizenship and successfully fought of extradition, a handful in Hong Kong (some who have felonies and successfully fought off extradition), etc. Once you have a few ex-pats in… Read more »

Tertullian
Guest
Tertullian

@ Emma the Emo: not a bad analogy. However, considering how many divorced men commit suicide, I wouldn’t be so quick to think of it as a “non-lethal” bomb.

xclampa
Guest
xclampa

And aren’t women exactly as dependent on men? Is the system feminized? Probably, and most probably for a fair reason from a statistical point of view. Children are over-all happier living with mothers after the divorce. Talking about extremes will always make it look bad. Not enough men have a life-insurance. Personally I think it natural for both of the spouses to have such – no matter who earns more. Being financially educated is a responsibility not all men understand, the same goes for women. It takes a good background, sensibility and smart mentors. Honestly… relationships mean development. You’re not… Read more »

Team-Red
Guest
Team-Red

That video was sickening and just goes to show how fucked up the justice system is and unbalanced alimony courts are. If I were Charles, I would’ve bailed the country after the first time being let out. His ex-wife is the very real definition of a BPD. I shame that Woman for ruing that poor Man’s life and the lives of their children. Damn her.

not_PC
Guest
not_PC

@A. B. Dada, thanks for that. I have family in Ukraine, but my fiance is from Ukraine as well and her cousin is a cop (with connections… scary…) I’d consider that, but not 100% sure how I’d be treated back at my country of birth.

I have 2 degrees from US universities, I’d hope to leverage that to my advantage.

Morpheus II
Guest

Wow. The first part of the video just shocked me. I really don’t have many words to say about it.

b-166er
Guest
b-166er

bring back the underground railroad for guys like Charles

Rock Throwing Peasant
Guest

I flat out told my fiance that I will paternity test each and every kid that she gives birth to. She can leave it or take it. If you’re married, paternity tests are pointless. If she gives birth during your marriage, it is your child until the other guy sues for paternity. @Stingray, Could you ever destroy your husband? You have to be in the position of power in which you can be unbelievably cruel and show almost unbridled power over someone you want to hurt or you felt hurt you, then resist that urge. I remember the experiment when… Read more »

Stingray
Guest

Rock Throwing Peasant, Could you ever destroy your husband? You have to be in the position of power No. Maybe that is another reason I can’t conceive of it. I am not in a position of power and I don’t ever want to be (at least for more than my husband might need me to be. I am thinking of a death in the family or something that drastic). For me to pull the trigger on my husband and marriage would be destroying . . . everything. He is my whole life, as is my family. To destroy that is… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

You keep using that word.

I don’t think it means what you think it does.

Stingray
Guest

Heh,

Yeah, I know.

itsme
Guest
itsme

@stingray:
push someone far enough, and they will do inconceivable things.
what if you were placed in a situation where you had to choose between your husband or your children?

Stingray
Guest

itsme, I understand that, and given that I know exactly what my husband would want me to do in a situation like that, I can understand what I would have to do. But we are not talking about something like that here. We are talking about destroying my husband in a way, that demonstrated by this video, would logistically be very easy for me to do in an everyday situation(!). What you are asking me is a very rare thing to happen. What these women are doing happens everyday. They are destroying lives and they couldn’t care less. And how… Read more »

Stingray
Guest

Eesh. I apologize if that sounds like I am angry with you. That’s not the case at all. I got blunt in my anger at the situation portrayed in that video and knowing that is is not uncommon today.

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

Stingray: I totally get your point. You are in a healthy and happy relationship. It does seem unlikely anything would alter your committment. But there are all kinds of things that rattle weaker foundations: often things that seem perfectly innocent. Here I go with my movie references again. Pardon me. In the movie, Contact, the main character is going to take a solo space flight. Before she goes, she is given a pill that will kill her. She says somthing to the effect that she doesn’t want it: she can’t think of any reason why she would need it. She… Read more »

Stingray
Guest

Kate, I get that as well. I guess my point in all of this is, why is destroying everything OK with these women. Why is utterly destroying a man not only commonplace, but encouraged? You are right in that my foundations are strong, but regardless, how can any woman think that putting her husband in jail for not giving her more than 100% of his take home and literally destroying his life (Seriously, it is one step away from killing him) is ok? I think I am talking about this being beyond comprehension because for any human being, it should… Read more »

King A (Matthew King)
Guest

driveallnight wrote: You hang out plenty in the manosphere; you’re well aware of badboys’ attractiveness to females, “Five Minutes of Alpha,” etc. All I did was document the hamster’s power by noting how even the rare “red pill” woman as yourself can be blind and/or susceptible to it. Ha. Is that what you think you did? You dutifully repeated a couple of platitudes in high currency around here without so much as adding a single value-added thought. I’ve had it with twerps like you stinking up the joint. You are the urine-soaked bum in the library mumbling conspiracy theories and/or… Read more »

GeishaKate
Guest
GeishaKate

Stingray: “Why is utterly destroying a man not only commonplace, but encouraged?” Well, the women could be influenced by their lawyers, other women looking for vicarious revenge, and the most obvious motive I can think of is if their spouse cheated on them. They might then feel justified in retaliation of some nature. “Are there situations that might warrant a woman putting her husband in jail?” If he has threatened her life or the life of someone else. Its almost as if people don’t understand how a crime of passion comes about. How fear, anger, being pushed too far, etc.… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@GK & Stingray, girls it’s encouraging to read your contemplations. In all of this I think it’s important to recognize the degree of abject surrend a man must submit himself to in a contemporary marriage. This insight you’re acknowledging; most women never have pause to consider it. They view marriage as an entitlement and ultimately about themselves. The husband is simply a player in her solipsistic marriage narrative. Stingray, I have no doubt that destroying your husband in such a way as Mr. Bruce was is in fact ‘inconceivable’ to you. But the operative point is that whether or not… Read more »

Tertullian
Guest
Tertullian

@ “King A (Matthew King)” : I KNEW if I waited long enough our resident bible-thumper would show up, especially on a topic like this one. Listen up, Jesus-Freak. I’ve had it with narrow-minded bigots like YOU stinking up the joint. Driveallnight made a perfectly valid point, and the fact that you can’t recognize that is a reflection on you, not him. Save your snark and sarcasm for the femcunts who deserve it. You need to understand that not everyone shares your desire to white-knight and attempt to reform society one woman at a time — or one “cervical battering… Read more »