Sugar Babies

prettywhitegirl

Whenever I use a manosphere acronym I’m always torn between presuming my readers will already know the terminology and need to re-explain a concept that the letters represent to new readers. We use a lot of acronyms and placeholder terms in the ‘sphere. These are necessary, but when you apply needed terms to abstractions and unfamiliar ideas critics will always fill the blanks in for themselves by telling you what you think you mean according to their preconceptions.

Next to the (abstract) terms of ‘Alpha’ and ‘Beta’, SMP and SMV are two of the more contentious placeholders for manosphere concepts. SMP is Sexual Marketplace and SMV is used to represent the relative Sexual Market Value of an individual within that SMP. There’s a lot to consider when when we attempt to define just what that ‘marketplace’ entails, but the point of contention for critics is that by valuating a person based on a perceived market state we dehumanize that individual. For those uninitiated to Red Pill concepts, a complete denial of any sexual marketplace is usually the first retort.

People are People and everyone is special” or some variation of the nebulous individual’s uniqueness needing to be held as the benchmark for each case of ‘value’ are the common refrains. Even denying an observable, measurable marketplace altogether for fear of being ‘judgemental’ is part of the Red Pill critic’s predictable counter to the idea of a sexual marketplace.

However, the latent purpose of this denial is really a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ tactic that keeps players ignorant of the system they exist in. Just as with the 49th Law of Power, deny the game exists and you can better play it.

As with all Red Pill truths, the awareness of where one fits into the scheme of the SMP, and accepting the sometimes cruel realities of it can be a bucket of cold reality for men (and women). The simple truth is that our capacity to valuate various stimuli in our environment has been a survival-beneficial adaptation for us.

We commodify a lot of our personal lives these days. We simply don’t have a problem accepting the easier aspects of this. ‘Time is money” is quick aphorism we apply to a lot of situation for ourselves. When a woman does the breakdown of all her ‘unpaid’ housework or childcare for an article in Forbes she’s lauded for commodifying and valuating that work. But let a man commodify women based on their general sexual appeal and utility to his sexual strategy and he’s dehumanizing and objectifying women.

If you’re interested in further reading about how we apply market principles to various aspects of our lives I’d suggest the book Life Inc. by Doug Rushkoff. It’s a great read, particularly the ideas about how we view buying a house as an investment rather than a place to live. I bring this up here because it’s a similar dynamic to how women invest themselves with men in the long term and the short term according to Hypergamous necessity. Women’s Hypergamy largely defines the modern sexual marketplace.

The Benefits of Opportunism

Women love opportunistically, men love idealistically. I’ve written several essays about how Hypergamy predisposes (often subconsciously) women to sexual opportunism, and men’s concept of love is rooted in idealism. I won’t belabor summing up these dynamics today, but if you want to review them you can read through the Love series of posts, and male idealism can be found here.

In 2016, the modern dating landscape, as well as contemporary marriage, has become varying degrees of ‘sex work’. I went into this topic a year and a half ago in Commodifying Love. This post was mostly meant to elaborate on another post Dalrock had written observing the utility feminist had with being miserly with love. I sought to explore it a bit further:

As Open Hypergamy becomes more proudly embraced and normalized in society, so too will women’s sexual strategy be laid more bare. And in laying that strategy bare, so too will women’s opportunistic model of love become more apparent to men. This new apparentness is already conflicting with the old-order messaging that kept men hopeful of realizing their idealistic love state.

Women cannot sell Open Hypergamy and the love-conquers-all ethereal ideal love at the same time.

I daresay this quote was a good bit of foreshadowing. One aspect of having a Red Pill lens is that it allows you to see the writing on the wall in so many ways with regard to intersexual dynamics and how they influence societal shifts. When I proposed that men and women’s concepts of love differ, and that much of the disconnect between the sexes is the result of the fact that we don’t share a mutual point of origin for that love, Blue Pill people got upset.

Women’s concept of love originates in an opportunism stemming from a subconscious need to optimize Hypergamy. To this day I still get angry comments from women for having used the word “opportunism”. Naturally, there’s a negative connotation to opportunism, but I use it in this context to describe a function in women’s sexual strategy. I could’ve used the term ‘practical’ or ‘pragmatic’, but often enough what inspires women’s need to optimize Hypergamy is anything but practical or pragmatic.

Everyone needs to realize that men are the “romantics pretending to be realists” and women; vice versa.

This week I received more than a few requests to give my take on the latest trend in women’s sexual opportunism. This comes courtesy of Vanity Fair and their exposé of the Sugar Babies/Sugar Daddies “dating” dynamic that’s become part of The New Prostitution Economy. Have a read of the whole article, but the short version is a breakdown of how women (all in their SMV peak years) look for “arrangements” with generous men eager to fund their lifestyles or (ostensibly) their education goals. In exchange, these men get the privilege of ‘dating’ if not fucking these women who would otherwise be out of whatever league they ascribe themselves to.

sugarbabies_2

I have a real love-hate relationship with articles like this. It’s far too easy to pile on and get wrapped up in the salaciousness and outrage dynamic – which is really what the article is written to prompt. But at the risk of writing an article about how “horrible women are/becoming” I think this trend is really the next logical extension of what I was describing in Commodifying Love a year and a half ago.

Yes, it’s just prostitution by another name. Yes, there is a pop-culture effort to normalize what would otherwise be a manipulative exploitation of men – but who cares, right? If poor Beta saps have the money, it’s only pragmatic that women legitimize the ‘pay-to-play’ model while they can capitalize on it in their prime years, right? And yes, the feminist narrative will simultaneously vilify the men resorting to being a “Sugar Daddy” while applauding the empowered women who play the game as well as they do.

Sarcasm aside, what’s underneath this dynamic is a graphic illustration of just how women’s opportunism looks when the stigma of keeping Hypergamy concealed from men is now brought into the light and proudly embraced in a feminine-centric social order. The social effort to normalize Open Hypergamy takes another step forward when women’s effective prostitution becomes indistinguishable from ‘normal’ dating – that is dating based on common attraction or interest.

The ‘date’-as-investment-opportunity becomes inseparable from women’s opportunistic concept of, and approach towards, love. Commodifying love and sex blurs the line between what is genuine desire and what is motivated interest. The conventional meme is that women have a difficult time separating sex from emotional investment, but the progression of Open Hypergamy – in this case the deliberate feigning of intimate interests on the part of women – puts the lie to this and reveals the true pragmatism with which women will apply their sexuality. Open Hypergamy becomes open prostitution, but this relationship becomes an accepted exchange or transaction the more comfortable women get with revealing the crueler nature of their sexual strategy.

“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore.”

When we look at women’s opportunistic approach to love, psycho-social dynamics like the War Bride dynamic come into stark contrast next to the Sugar Babies trend – they are both natural extensions of women’s need to optimize Hypergamy and ensure their long term security.

“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore,” says another guy at the bar, a well-known D.J. in his 30s. “They’re not strippers, they’re not on the corner, there’s no more madam. They look like all the other club girls.”

He tells a story of a young woman he let stay in his hotel room one weekend while he was working in Las Vegas. “She met up with this other girl and all of a sudden they had all these men’s watches and wallets and cash. They wereworking.” He laughs, still amazed at the memory.

“It’s like hooking has just become like this weird, distorted extension of dating,” the D.J. says. “ ‘He took me to dinner. He throws me money for rent’—it’s just become so casual. I think it’s dating apps—when sex is so disposable, if it doesn’t mean anything, then why not get paid for it? But don’t call it prostitution—no, now it’s liberation.”

They all look the same because the commodification of intimacy is the same. Hooking is dating when the only degree of separation is in the comfort women have in the transaction. The necessary compartmentalizing of feelings or emotional investment on the part of women – the ones we’ve been sold for so long as inseparable from their sexuality – are only mitigated by men they perceive as having a higher SMV than those who they view as ‘clients’.

Money isn’t a factor in this equation of SMV; why would it be when provisioning is so easily had via dating clients ready to pay her rent or something else comparable? I’ve dug into this before, but with respect to women’s short-term sexual priorities (the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy) money rarely plays a role in genuine arousal; and even then it’s by order of degree in how necessitous that woman may be – or in this case, how entitled to those resources she has convinced herself she deserves.

The larger social embrace of “Sugaring” is an extension of Open Hypergamy. So not only is there an expectation of capitalizing on a woman’s party years, but that once she’s reached the Epiphany Phase she can be relatively confident that her years of Sugaring will be socially normalized and not factor into her long-term capacity to optimize Hypergamy (see the Sandberg effect). Women’s opportunistic concept of love is informed by Hypergamy, so it feeds into the SMP valuation of her intimate transactions.

And this dynamic isn’t just limited to younger women in their SMV peak years; women in their later phases of maturity have also found how useful apps like Tinder are in getting men to do the manual labor tasks they’d otherwise have to pay for themselves.

Genuine femininity has become so rare in our present social order that it can now be bartered as a luxury experience for men who can afford it. So uncommon is feminine behaviors and demeanor now that men will pay a woman’s bills when they can convincingly act feminine, sweet and appreciative. It’s no surprise that married men account for the majority of Sugar Daddies; they seek what they lack in their marriages – sex, femininity, appreciation, caring, even loving conversation – an escape from wives who feel entitled to their efforts and provisioning with out reciprocation.

Even feigned femininity is better than a nagging loneliness in marriage

Transactions

Acknowledging Hypergamy openly is acknowledging the transactional nature of women’s concept of love. It’s ugly, but as Hypergamy becomes an increasingly normalized a blurring of the line between dating and prostitution becomes more common. As I’ve said before, there will come a point that even the most Blue Pill man will be forced to recognize women’s blatant sexual strategies. As it stands now there is some confusion for these guys, thus, we see men wondering who the hooker is and who the available club girl is because both employ similar methodologies.

As a result men become less able to distinguish genuine desire from transactional role playing by women. Even in marriage transactional role playing has already been normalized and a presumption of a feminine frame of authority pervades most marriages – wives allow a husband to believe he’s in his Frame so long as the transaction is beneficial to what her ego believes is her due (see Briffault’s Law).

Solutions & Caveats

Sometimes it’s not enough to simply say “now you know, and knowing is half the battle”. The other half of the battle is taking actions and precautions to avoid the tar pits and protect oneself. In the future I believe it will be imperative for men not only to understand the nature of women’s sexual strategy, but also what to expect from the results of women’s previous decisions to effect them.

Guys ought to consider that by marrying or engaging in an LTR with former Sugar Babies they will not only deal with an Alpha Widow in terms of her sexual past, but also Sugar Daddy provider widows as well. Imagine the lifestyle switch to a lower socioeconomic status than what her former Daddy provided her with. Even dutiful Betas in Waiting will find their patience tested in competing with the previous lifestyle of a Sugar Baby.

Of course the easiest answer is always to recuse yourself from dating a Sugar Baby, to say nothing about entering an LTR with her, but as I mentioned earlier, hooking will be dating or some crossing of that line in the not so distant future. It’s important to bear this in mind, particularly when the transactional nature of it will run contradictory to the narrative that men are never owed sex for anything. The subcommunication is one of an implied contract, but the indignation will be one of men’s non-selected presumptions that sex is what’s being barter for.

From now and into the foreseeable future men must consider women from a realistic assessment of how their sexual strategies inform their decisions and base their own decisions accordingly. It’s also important to remember that the sexual market place differs in various contexts. Usually this context is reflective of the culture or social group engaging in, and reinforcing it. Women sexual opportunism doesn’t change, only how it’s expressed in a social context. Not all women are ‘Sugaring’, however the motives that allow for a normalization of it exist in all women – even the sweet nice ones who want to make a good impression on you.

It’s not impossible to engender a genuine desire in a woman. If that weren’t the case I wouldn’t be writing, but it’s important to be aware of how Hypergamy will evolved social dynamics to better facilitate its optimization. This can be a very damaging influence on both women and the men who attempt to navigate a sexual marketplace founded on unchecked Hypergamy.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“the Osborne building does not exist”

205 West 57th Street and the on the National Register of Historic Places.
But I’d be careful about meeting your parole officer at his apartment. Sounds a bit hinky to me.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@hank what are good openers for people walking past you? the “was it busy” is a perfect opener for girls at work — its not sexual, but, I think that is actually kind of a good thing in this situ. past you facing you just don’t bother past you facing where you’re facing, when they start walking past you just look over…’are you following me?’ ‘are you trying to race?’ ”i wonder if we’re going to the same place…’ really almost anything situational eh…the opener doesn’t count for much so w/e….but the problem with ‘was it busy’ is that you’re… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

YaReally is correct about society beating out parenting on a regular basis. The chicks I’ve gotten in to bed the easiest even before TRP were ultra-Christian types with parents who remained married their entire lives. They had degrees and good jobs. They followed all the rules. All that shit went out the window the moment they felt they had some degree of Alpha available. One of them, after we had hooked up a couple times, proceeded to tell me about the threesome she had with a married couple. Parents can do their absolute best, but in the end some of… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@kfg

searching for buildings? Everybody else today is using the Internet to follow the crumbling of the Taylor Swift brand and how FI battles are won

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@sun

“YaReally is correct about society beating out parenting on a regular basis”

yes, but Blax reports this occurred too in Flashback times

Back then my cousin and some other girls set up a Catholic girls group. They would all rendezvous at the church and immediately go out to party.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Redlight: “searching for buildings?”

I had to look up the number, but I could have led you right to it.

” . . . the crumbling of the Taylor Swift . . .”

http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/426×639/s_v/Taylor-swift2_glamour_3may16_GettyImages-b_426x639.jpg

The wall claims them all.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

FI battles, use a woman for the attack:

Do you think it was fair what Kim did?

I do think it was fair. I think she was defending her husband and she was perfectly within her rights to do that. I’m not a fan, I don’t watch the show. But I respect that she’s made a business empire, and I think she’s a very smart woman. I don’t think she was trying to tear down Taylor as much as she was trying to defend her family.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/celebs/a61517/taylor-swift-kim-kardashian-fans-respond/

much like it was smart of Ghomeshi to have a woman lawyer

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Sentient So your argument here is that UMC parents secretly support abortion in the US because they want it available for their daughters, they want access… Is that right? Did you mean to write something else? Pretty much. Do you disagree? Do you assert that if Joe Frat Dude knocked up Judge Smails daughter at the end of her freshman year she’d take time off from college to gestate, deliver and give up for adoption? Seriously? Ditto the same Smails girlie when she forgets her pills and somehow gets preggers from a foam cannon at Cancun, ditto when she becomes… Read more »

trackback

[…] am going to riff on it here, but before I do I’d like to point out that my posting Sugar Babies, before this post was a strategic decision on my part. You’ll understand why a bit later, […]

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

If I had to find one of those around me, I don’t think I could. I don’t live in nightclub country. Must be a rarefied air. Keys to the VIP clubs and all–real slice of America. Really allows broad sweeping statements about how sexual strategies are working for the bulk of humans. Dude. You’re rich. We got it, ok? FYI you can find a bar with a DJ and dancing near just about any college campus. It’ll be full of people under 30, mostly under 25. Nothing you’d be interested in, I’m sure. And another note, my children have really… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

@j – firstly, why not just call instead of texting? But in any case: chasing too much, ESPECIALLY after the bang when she should be chasing you. Specifically: opener line was fine. Second line – don’t ask her if she wants to meet up. Tell her. Then STOP CHASING and overgaming. If she doesn’t reply for an hour, don’t reward her with more attention and emotional spikes. As the classic line goes – would you have been chasing her so hard if you had ten other girls ready to come to the bar with you? Then you just do more… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

lol’ing hard at the “no one goes to nightclubs anymore, YaReally’s sample size is just the 15% that go to nightclubs”. How many times do I have to repeat that PUAs run their shit *EVERYWHERE*. You think we don’t have guys in small-ass towns approaching girls in the fucking mall (wtf do you think hank holiday is doing??)? You think we don’t have guys in middle America in your “no nightclubs here” towns gaming groups of girls wherever they are? fucking lol. We have PUAs/TRP’ers in UMC places, at music festivals, in religious schools, daytime, dinner parties, etc We have… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@j “Fucked her last week ONS” Even an ONS wants to feel like she’s not a slut. Maybe MORESO even because she’ll worry more that you think she’s a slut because of how fast she put out. So walk on eggshells a bit between that lay and the next, turn your calibration senses up to maximum till the 2nd or 3rd bang where you two have a better connection. “Me (m): hey big butt Her (h): hahahahaha hey (answers immediately BT spike) M: want to get drinks later tonight” Fine up to here. “(an hour goes by so time to… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@SJF On top of all that, rich UMC kids probably do THE MOST drugs. Because they can afford it, and they can afford to get away with it, and they can afford to give them to their friends, and they’re bored as fuck because they don’t have to struggle as hard to get by in life, and they feel more pressure by their family’s to maintain a good image that feels good to rebel against (again the horny repressed catholic schoolgirl stereotype exists for a reason, ask Blaximus). Ya poor people do drugs, but if you don’t think UMC kids… Read more »

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Digi,

Saw your mini FR. Man, the staff is there FOR YOU! It’s their job to chat with you. You have the money, so you are the boss. I expect ALL FUTURE FRs to have examples of you talking to the staff that get’s paid to talk to you, and not just one dude about the Olympics.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“Just be aware that nothing is 100%.” Lol. Only when you are comfortable with that, can you really start being a father. “Do you even know what happens at those??? lololol I have a ton of buddies who go to that shit, guys and girls. Hate to break it to you, but your kids (and their boyfriends) do Molly, BARE MINIMUM. Probably shrooms and acid too.” Certainly. My daughter is sleeping with her boyfriend and my son is banging his girlfriend. Some of my wife’s favorite pet stories include doing shrooms during a stint in high school in the Seattle… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

And by the way, my daughter does complain that in her circle of friends some do too many drugs including coke. All drugs are readily available to her at parties and music festivals.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@yareally lol’ing hard at the “no one goes to nightclubs anymore, YaReally’s sample size is just the 15% that go to nightclubs”. How many times do I have to repeat that PUAs run their shit *EVERYWHERE* moving goalposts again What we are talking about is your crazy theory that strong masculinity is getting significantly less pussy, and we are suggesting you personally open your eyes to the 87% world (55/45 gender ratio makes only 13% of females inhabit your bubble). Otherwise you actually are a keyboard jockey in this case, just like you were in my business examples Like talk… Read more »

mersonia
6 years ago

@redlight can you define masculinity for me in your own terms ?

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
6 years ago

@Blaximus “My little girl and I have a joke ( that my wife hates..) Me: What’s your number one priority? Her: Stay off the pole dad. Me: Right. And who’s my little princess? Her: Nobody because princesses are fictional. I’m your daughter. Then we crack up. It’s always funny. The wife doesn’t think so. It will continue regardless.” Doing it right man! Same age as you and I’ve got a 16yo that still thinks (thought?) boys are stupid. I think I did a good job with her but now she lives with her mother and I dread what’s going to… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Let’s be clear about something. Most girls who are “ultra-religious” (wth “ultra-religious” means) don’t get proper training about how to mateguard themselves from what I have seen, other than “avoid clubs and alcohol”. I sure as hell didn’t do it because I was Blue Pill when I raised my kids. I understand now what needs to be done, but the horses that were in my barn are multiple states away by now, so it’s too late for me. Still, one of my kids has an ultra-strong frame and the other has finally understood that she needs to mateguard herself. No… Read more »

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@ASDGamer, Blasimus, Rollo, Scribblerg and SJF: I have a lot of respect for ASDGamer, SJF and Scribblerg but I dislike seeing these 3 guys who probably understand Red Pill better than me making such obvious mistakes in judgment. AWALT is one of the fundamentals, guys. “Daddy goggles” indeed… When I posted this I specifically recall thinking about Scribblerg struggling with parental alienation a few months back: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4q3je0/oneitis_not_just_for_women_you_want_to_have_sex/ And a recent post by a MRP approved guy on the reddit shows a somewhat similar situation: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4tjjjm/ive_disowned_my_daughter/ I added Blaximus and Rollo there at the @, but despite having a daughter I… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@YaIveGotMyPUAgogglesOnReallyIdo “Olympic sport of fucking”, “religious UMC girls”, you might as well just say “whores” and “madonnas” to save yourself some typing dude. You’ve just repackaged a Madonna/whore complex in new words. Not this. What I have seen of bangable girls 21+ yo: 1. Girls who aggressively seek alpha dick. Club and internet skanks. >50 notches; maybe 10% of the population 2. Girls who are more selective and go clubbing occasionally, but mostly do serial monogamy. >10 notches; maybe 20% of the population 3. Girls who don’t go clubbing and do serial monogamy. 5-10 notches; maybe 60% of the population… Read more »

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@mersonia

“can you define masculinity for me in your own terms?”

masculinity is the ability to kill anything, build anything, and do anything except bear a child

j
j
6 years ago

Thanks YaReally. Excellent advice as usual. My thought process was that after sending the invite, it instinctively felt beta (asking her VS Telling her as Culum pointed out) so because she’s Eastern European (love very alpha guys) i sent the next text to purposely get her to shit test me.

I basically viewed everything as a shit test, when I should have calibrated to alleviate her ASD

She did reply last night: working and not flirting to porno messages. Tempting as fuck to agree & amplify but will give it a week as you and Culum said.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

If my experience is any indicator, advanced age of the woman (29, 31) isn’t by itself indicative of difficulty in conceiving/gestating. As soon as Mrs. Gamer went off the pill, she immediately got pregnant.

I suspect that advanced age for most women corresponds with damage to their BME from increased notch counts/abortion scarring/STDs. Possibly some damage comes from unrecognized STDs. There may be some STDs whose infectious vectors have yet to be discovered. Prions were discovered in the last 30 years, for example, so maybe some STDs are still invisible to physicians.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@IAS No one is arguing NAWALT based on nature. AWALT when it comes to nature. You’re not understanding the convo. Did you miss the whole Red Pill training for girls thing? Don’t you get that girls can be trained to mateguard themselves? When I’m out at the mall, grocery store, etc., some girls avoid eye contact. Mateguarding. Other girls with higher SMVs (younger/hotter) hold eye contact with me during the day at these places. Not mateguarding. (I assume that most all girls with SMVs 7+ are “taken”.) Last night I was at a dive bar I have been at once… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Blax You know where I think some of the disconnect comes from re: raising kids ( esp. daughters ) in this crazy society? Guys like us, you, Rollo and Sentient, who took/take raising our kids very seriously, sort of take offense at the suggestion that the outside world may just hold any manner of sway over our family that could overrule our teaching. We understand the dedication and love/work we put in, but there are millions and millions of counter examples of just the opposite strutting around. Blax… no offense taken… it is fascinating to watch Yareally’s straight up KJ’ing… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

I can understand killjoy comments to discourage a guy from getting married today, or killing the joy of a guy deciding to have children in the future (i.e. bringing children into your version of a shitty world ruled by the FI.).

But thanks for all the parenting advice. I’ve been doing it for 25 years. And I don’t have regrets or future fears.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Infertility is Big Business. Common myth-non-conceptions (nyuk, nyuk) from a top infertility doc. 1. 40 is the new 30. 2. There’s no rush. 3. She: “We have sex often enough.” 4. “It’s gotta be me.” Men can have low sperm counts, especially from low testosterone. Yeah, activities that encourage testosterone production are optional. Alpha 2.0 rocks! /sarcasm off 5-7 aren’t relevant to my points 8. Celebrities have kids in their 40s and 50s using IVF; I can, too. Cost is a factor at advanced ages http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/07/health/fertility-misconceptions/ Not on the list is another myth: 9. Obesity is irrelevant to conception and… Read more »

sugarhero
sugarhero
6 years ago

I will bite on the sugar baby bait. I am one of those married men who have fun with sugar babies. It is pretty easy to get a 7-8 any day of the week in my city. I talk with them and then get what I want. You can say it is beta, but I am just enjoying the decline as it happens. I will say that some of these women are soulless cretins who will be hitting the wall like a ton of bricks. They will con some hapless beta into marrying them. Meanwhile, a guy like did vile… Read more »

sugarhero
sugarhero
6 years ago

We are going to see a tidal wave of ex sugar babies and entitled women. It is coming. These women have played the cheat codes of attractiveness for a temporary advantage. I am a participant, but I expect that dating will get downright nasty for anyone 30 and up. The attitudes exhibited by this bunch are hilarious. You know the drill. A 6 thinks she is an 8 and so on. There are 9+ women on there, but as in life, the really wealthy benefactors scoop them up and then discard them. If anyone knows a college age girl with… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ Rollo

That quote above was mine.

What I was getting at was the thought that because we dad’s are invested in raising our girls/families, the explication of such may seem as if we take offense when arguments arise concerning awalt.

‘ seem ‘ being the operative.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Poor writing on my part….

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Rollo – I’m sure even if the women in your life were unaware of your writings, your IRL conduct would inform them of your views and your views on their behavior (and your boundaries) on a daily basis… which is basically what many of us actually raising kids have said.

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@Rollo: I’m pretty sure you don’t have daddy goggles, from your writing and interviews where you mention stuff like “Don’t think for a minute that I don’t know my wife could go feral” (I assume the same goes for your daughter). What can you say to these dads that think being Upper Middle Class (or whatever) and enough Red Pill Parenting can immunize their daughters from AWALT? Certainly, good parenting can shield and improve the chances… But safer still for dads to also shield themselves from having debilitating One-itis for their own kids. I think you also mentioned you are… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Anonymous et al – Lol, go on, keep hating on Emily. I’m no longer angry at women for behaving as women do so feel no anger at her. But please, keep calling her names and denigrating her – but just keep in mind it will never make you feel better about yourself. I went after Emily a while back very specifically, based on her hypocrisy and public statements/actions. As opposed some “men” here who just call her a stupid whore every time she shows up. Such men don’t realize what that reveals about themselves. @Emily – Seriously, ignore the assholes… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
6 years ago

@IAS
“Certainly, good parenting can shield and improve the chances… ”
That’s all you can do. It just reduces the odds on the crap-shoot of life

cheupez
6 years ago

@Scrib

When you did it, you did quite a good job eviscerating that twat. Thanks. I would now never cold, warm or hot approach that twat.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

” Emily – Seriously, ignore the assholes here who enjoy the opportunity to insult you with no social consequences. Just know none of them would dare speak to you that way live, lol. In fact, many of them wouldn’t even have the guts to cold-approach you, LMFAO. “

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ cheupez

” When you did it, you did quite a good job eviscerating that twat. Thanks. I would now never cold, warm or hot approach that twat.”

Lol. She is who she is, and it’s not good.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Cheupez – Context is decisive. I took her on for specific behavior. I don’t call her a cunt every time she shows up. Guys like Blax and others here just unload on her nonstop, whatevs, punching retards was never my thing… Just like I don’t sit still for a community that openly embraces racism, or “punching a woman out of the blue”, I’m also not into nonstop shitting on anyone. Emily is a mixed bag – JUST LIKE ALL OF US. Every wonder if she is/was here because she was trying to figure shit out? In the obnoxious, know-it-all way… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@IAS I don’t think you can quite get away with using the one-itis label as pejorative for parenting simply because a mother’s unconditional love and altruism is what made humans so successful in taking over the world. Caring deeply about offspring is normal. Unconditional love from mother to child is normal. A man having one-itis for a girl is psychologically pathologic. Upper Middle Class-ness is often a sign of success, not an originating asset. Sometimes it flows from being good at what you do. Upper Middle class persons have more resources to maintain dual parent relationships and parent children. When… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@yareally @scray @PUA @j yeah, max’s stuff is too natural for where I am. I have done stuff like that when I was in state. Like that time when I was bouncing around sets downtown with a pink flower in my ear. I was just opening people on whatever. However, that vid did get me thinking of how to open just immediately DHV so “Hey. Excuse me. Excuse me ma’am. Got a quick question for you. Just a quick question. I need a woman’s opinion on this. The other day I was at a coffee shop . . . ”… Read more »

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@SJF: Maybe I’m just too much of a cynic, but I don’t think mothers have unconditional love for their kids. Caring deeply for your offspring may be normal (I don’t care much about normalcy), but taken to some extent will be debilitating for the parent, particularly the father, in many circumstances. Many men are stuck unhappily in their marriages “for the kids”, just as an example. One of the replies to my post mentioned a case where there was a booby trapped intentional pregnancy that the man very clearly did not want (as Rollo says, be in control of the… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

IAS

“I don’t think mothers have unconditional love for their kids”

They don’t need it… they have solipsism and want to see THEIR genes passed on… why do you think grandmothers are so crazy for grandchildren?

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@Sentient: personally, I’m aware that much “unconditional love” is a kind of well disguised selfishness. Look carefully at their actions and not what they say and you can spot examples. You mention grandmothers… I can almost guarantee a mother with two daughters will give more attention to the daughter that gave her a grandkid first, then switch when the other daughter has her own baby after (the other kid will be older now and maybe less cute?). Not saying there aren’t good reasons for that, but it is not, by definition, “unconditional”. I’m not sure SJF agrees though. Also, some… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

YaReally, On top of all that, rich UMC kids probably do THE MOST drugs. Poor drunks get released to Alkies Anonymous. Middle class drunks go to clinic, then get released to AA. UMC drunks go to Betty Ford or some other resort-like dryout clinic, and they have more exclusive, discrete AA meetings. But they all are self medicating with alcohol, and all are killing themselves on the installment plan. Which is odd, since SJF tells me the UMC man at the age of 28 is fully equipped to make plans and see them through with long term thinking, and dying… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

“Just be aware that nothing is 100%.”

Lol.

Only when you are comfortable with that, can you really start being a father.

Do you ever get tired of talking down to people?

Just wondering.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

sugarhero
We are going to see a tidal wave of ex sugar babies and entitled women

Yeah, maybe. But maybe not. Some of them might go downscale to camgirl. We really should avoid underestimating the number of thirsty betas out there.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

scribblerg
@Anonymous et al – Lol, go on, keep hating on Emily. I’m no longer angry at women for behaving as women do so feel no anger at her. But please, keep calling her names and denigrating her – but just keep in mind it will never make you feel better about yourself.

Here you go again, projecting as usual. Just as I predicted, in fact.

Look, Scrib, she’s not really your daughter. You’re not her Daddy.
Get over it.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@hank These are decent. First two especially are me. yeah man your opener (esp outside of a nightclub setting) shouldn’t be THAT good. otherwise you run the risk of looping around the opener and never get anywhere. it happens all the time. but i understand that starting out you need the confidence having a ‘good’ opener gives so…. but the problem with ‘was it busy’ is that you’re just getting them to talk about work which is blaaaaah. “KINDERGARDNER!!! WHY CAN”T YOU DO CALCULUS!!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??!??!?!?” huh? have no idea how it came off like i was… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Every wonder if she is/was here because she was trying to figure shit out? In the obnoxious, know-it-all way a young, bright woman No. She thinks that she has it all figured out. Bright? Maybe for a young woman. Not as bright as the average woman because we get smarter as we age and we also get experience and hopefully wisdom. But she thinks that she’s smarter than the average woman, lol. I agree about not punching retards just because they’re retards. I don’t like listening to retards who talk like they’re the cat’s meow. Emily comes across that way…like… Read more »

Harrison Bergeron
6 years ago

@sentient, @IAS

On the subject of grandmas:

https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/all-grandmas-are-not-created-equal/

Related, related males and the Y-chromosome:

https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/all-cousins-are-not-created-equal/

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@scray it busts them wide open in the same way that ‘hey, what time is it?’ (said to a girl wearing a watch) will bust a girl wide open. Okay, so the opener isn’t just “how was work.” its really a cold read of sorts “Was today very busy?” “Yes.” “It came in waves right?” “Yup.” “That’s where its like where I work too. Lots of people, or noboday. Its boring for awhile. And you’re like “I wish there were SOME people.” Thats when a HORDE of people with screaming babies come in. So then you think, man, maybe some… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@hank <emOkay, so the opener isn’t just “how was work.” its really a cold read of sorts yeah man I get it….just GENERALLY avoid talking about a chick’s work. it isn’t the fact that you’re talking about her work that is lighting them up. it’s just that you feel comfortable and confident with that opener (probably for the reason i outlined above) and so your subcomms are better, to which I say, cool, but JUST KNOW that your success is IN SPITE of the topic, not because of it. Whenever I use that, like on the balck girl from the… Read more »

Junior
Junior
6 years ago

@Scribblerg
what is this rambling ode to Emily lol. It’s almost as if you believe a woman – & specifically Emily, who has been shown to be a lying manipulative psychopath, & called out by Rollo as such – has anything of value to offer here?

@Sentient
why is the butthurtedness for YaReally so strong in you both lol? Seems you both delight in getting wound up about nothing. How about sticking to straight rational discussion without the bad feels, given the blog we’re on here.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Junior, work on your reading comp.

Junior
Junior
6 years ago

@asdgamer

afff you’re right, support for Emily & the views of all women should be encouraged & listened to closely here of all places, as should the defensive cry-babying of the Sentients & SJFs lol. Jeezuss what has this place turned into… all we need now is the that dude to come & rail on Hank for logging his progress & we’re half-way to becoming a butthurt combo of the RVF & Salon lol

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@Junior

Are u still sucking YaReally’s dick?

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

wtf?

Junior
Junior
6 years ago

@asdgamer

oh ya daily dontchya know. Wtf even is this but illustrating my point perfectly lol. Just bizarre…

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Blax, I’m giving Junior’s comments the degree of serious attention they deserve.

mersonia
6 years ago

@All

asd “Are u still sucking YaReally’s dick?”

blax “wtf?”

jr “oh ya daily dontchya know. Wtf even is this but illustrating my point perfectly lol. Just bizarre…”

I love the direction the chat is going in keep this up boys. This must be the neo masculinity (or old) loved so much by the old guys

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Anon Reader Is everything OK on the home front, these days? You sound a tad bit frustrated. “Do you ever get tired of talking down to people?” Not really. It energizes me. It’s part of my INTJ firmware. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeWduNomDqY “…since SJF tells me the UMC man at the age of 28 is fully equipped to make plans and see them through with long term thinking…” I left out the part about I’m the only one that has ever done that. And it is impossible for any other 28 year old. @Junior League “why is the butthurtedness for YaReally so strong… Read more »

flandersfleming
6 years ago

Oh Vanity Fair, thank you for enlightening the world with the infinite wisdom of 20 to 23-year-old girls(as Rollo points out). Makes me think of Monty Python’s Jabberwocky; The guy who cut his leg off so he can be a beggar “you’re missing out on a golden opportunity”.

cheupez
6 years ago

@Scrib
I would be the last person to want to differ with your take on almost anything in here. I have read all your comments in this site and I have deep respect for who you are. Not many people can face adversity and remain as rock solid as you have. But when it comes to that twat, everything she posts is likely a lie. So I take it with a pinch of salt. Is all I was saying.

mersonia
6 years ago

@SFJ

“The old guys have actually accomplished a few things over the last 20 years. Pro-masculine, red pill and all. Abstract rather than concrete thinking is not for nothing.”

What are you talking about……

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@emily

“Redlight, stop posting stuff about me and go worry about your wife being a whore”

stop posting stuff about us first

do some volunteer work with children before deciding never to have them

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“What are you talking about……”</I.

……Experience…… (practical contact with and observation of facts or events). Two more/extra decades of it than the 35 year olds' experience.

mersonia
6 years ago

“……Experience…… (practical contact with and observation of facts or events). Two more/extra decades of it than the 35 year olds’ experience.”

What are you talking about? in context to your reply to my post…..

jack
jack
6 years ago

for me, a 22 year old virgin, reading and (up to a point) learning about game had another effect…i am starting to become more and more disenchanted with women. i became aware of their true nature, of their endless scheming, manipulating, and, most of all, HYPERGAMY….i cant stop asking myself, what is the point? prostitutes are always available for sex anyway. relatioships seem to me a permanent battleground, with no peace treaty in sight (at least for mere mortals like me….even though i saw cool guys cheated.wtf do women want?) i am planning to pay a prostitute a get on… Read more »

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Jack, do you play video games? Do the video games not challenge you like women would? What are you gonna do the first time something tries to kill you in a video game? Will you get “disenchanted with video games.” GAME is called GAME for a reason. Treat women like a video game that you have to beat to get to the next level. As it is now, you can’t get your dick sucked by beating a video game, but you can by beating hypergamy. Dude, check out my YaReally summary: https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/why-yareally-need-to-learn-game/ @YaReally, did you ever get around to doing… Read more »

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@jack, and don’t forget that what you are feeling is all part of the stages of unplugging: https://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/

trackback

[…] (or model, lol), who loves to go out with artists, or “cool, hawt guys”, etc. As Rollo Tomassi states, open hypergamy defines our sexual market, and they use […]

bookooball
6 years ago

This reminds me of reading about the courtiers of tbe Victorian age… Seems the modern woman is ignoring how short lived the power of that lifestyle is, probably due to their ability to exploit the workforce and state for resources after they are past their prime.

I wonder how many women must fall victim to the feminist lies before the majority of women start to see that their actions have consequences? Or do the facts really hurt female feelz that badly?

Tom
Tom
5 years ago

These are high end prostitutes, low self esteem daddy issue lying whores. They get validated by the money, get valildated by being fucked by older wealthy sometimes married men. They pretty much all do bareback for the right price, 25-40+ year age gap is common, as is one-offs. Where else can a 50+yo guy bang 20yo college girls bareback, some still living at home with her mum and stepdad. No matter how alpha you are that’s pretty rare. I even came across an 18yo that was fucking a married 62yo grandpa for 3 months. Can’t make this stuff up and… Read more »

trackback

[…] Sugar Babies […]

The Dude
The Dude
5 years ago

Pick up is for the pathetic. I do not play games with women and I never have, and I cannot stand people who play games. Yes, I am a loner. But guess what? Hot women love me, and fat unattractive women hate my guts, and so do very many guys. Unattractive women and butt hurt guys often give me cold glares which read, “Who does he think he is!” And, I could waste my time trying to prove to them that I am just a regular guy, while they try to talk shit to me, and try to drag me… Read more »

The Dude
The Dude
5 years ago

There are plenty of good looking women who will take care of a man, house him, clothe him, feed him, and the guy can be 20 or more years older than the woman, and in bad physical shape. I am talking about slender, attractive women. Some of these guys could not get a hard on if their life depended on it.

Lennox Atiti
Lennox Atiti
5 years ago
Lex
Lex
5 years ago

The solution to this is simple, don’t buy stuff for women. Period. Any form of her making you jump through hoops to get the cookie is a bad deal. If you don’t keep your wallet closed, you only have yourself to blame.

trackback

[…] as an aside, I think this schema becomes all the more interesting when you account for the Sugar Babies companionship/sex dynamic going on today. It might be easy to think a Sugar Daddy paying for a […]

theunveiled
theunveiled
5 years ago

Most men that hire a SB just want bareback sex with a college girl, aka someone clean enough to have bareback sex with. We’re talking men 40s- 60s here, old men who havn’t fucked a college girl in 20-40 years. Prostitutes generally don’t fuck bareback. SDs generally don’t give a fuck about a connection tho they might fake some so she feels like less of a hooker.

Marcus
Marcus
4 years ago

Rollo and Red Pillers. I gotta tell you a big secret. The sugar bowl is an ideal place for Game and spinning plates. I’ve been sugaring for 3 years now and I’m a younger Sugar daddy. Not old, stocky with muscles and have game. Trust me I don’t give these girl thousands of $ or pay their rent or tuition. I just give them enough minimal to keep them coming back for more. It does take game to walk into a sugar date with confidence and basically low ball these babies. Or just pay dinner and drinks and get laid… Read more »

trackback

[…] in point, this story is of a guy who discovers his girlfriend used to be a Sugar Baby and had sex with older men for money in her sexual past. He has plans to break it off with her, but […]

seany1977
3 years ago

@rollo This is an old article, I just found it. This article resonates with me and mirrors my thoughts on prostitutes. I visited Escorts up until about 6 months ago and then I swallowed the red pill. I found it a very damaging activity to my frame and my mental health. I talked to my friend a couple of months ago about it being a beta activity and how it was a total overt display of hypergamy. He disagrees. He thinks paying a woman for sex is something an Alpha would do. I even commented that all women by their… Read more »

trackback

[…] am going to riff on it here, but before I do I’d like to point out that my posting Sugar Babies, before this post was a strategic decision on my part. You’ll understand why a bit later, […]

R
R
3 years ago

Why do you consider sugaring to be an exploitation of men when the men willingly entered this contract? They can just as easily not pay for this.

“wives allow a husband to believe he’s in his Frame so long as the transaction is beneficial to what her ego believes is her due” you make it sound like wives shouldn’t have a say at all in the marriages and that her preferences don’t matter.

Kenkhegel
2 years ago

hey rollo , i dont know about you but i found this weird app sugarbook . I think it came out in 2019 , hers a link
https://sugarbook.com/. what are your thoughts on this ?

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