Whenever I use a manosphere acronym I’m always torn between presuming my readers will already know the terminology and need to re-explain a concept that the letters represent to new readers. We use a lot of acronyms and placeholder terms in the ‘sphere. These are necessary, but when you apply needed terms to abstractions and unfamiliar ideas critics will always fill the blanks in for themselves by telling you what you think you mean according to their preconceptions.
Next to the (abstract) terms of ‘Alpha’ and ‘Beta’, SMP and SMV are two of the more contentious placeholders for manosphere concepts. SMP is Sexual Marketplace and SMV is used to represent the relative Sexual Market Value of an individual within that SMP. There’s a lot to consider when when we attempt to define just what that ‘marketplace’ entails, but the point of contention for critics is that by valuating a person based on a perceived market state we dehumanize that individual. For those uninitiated to Red Pill concepts, a complete denial of any sexual marketplace is usually the first retort.
“People are People and everyone is special” or some variation of the nebulous individual’s uniqueness needing to be held as the benchmark for each case of ‘value’ are the common refrains. Even denying an observable, measurable marketplace altogether for fear of being ‘judgemental’ is part of the Red Pill critic’s predictable counter to the idea of a sexual marketplace.
However, the latent purpose of this denial is really a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ tactic that keeps players ignorant of the system they exist in. Just as with the 49th Law of Power, deny the game exists and you can better play it.
As with all Red Pill truths, the awareness of where one fits into the scheme of the SMP, and accepting the sometimes cruel realities of it can be a bucket of cold reality for men (and women). The simple truth is that our capacity to valuate various stimuli in our environment has been a survival-beneficial adaptation for us.
We commodify a lot of our personal lives these days. We simply don’t have a problem accepting the easier aspects of this. ‘Time is money” is quick aphorism we apply to a lot of situation for ourselves. When a woman does the breakdown of all her ‘unpaid’ housework or childcare for an article in Forbes she’s lauded for commodifying and valuating that work. But let a man commodify women based on their general sexual appeal and utility to his sexual strategy and he’s dehumanizing and objectifying women.
If you’re interested in further reading about how we apply market principles to various aspects of our lives I’d suggest the book Life Inc. by Doug Rushkoff. It’s a great read, particularly the ideas about how we view buying a house as an investment rather than a place to live. I bring this up here because it’s a similar dynamic to how women invest themselves with men in the long term and the short term according to Hypergamous necessity. Women’s Hypergamy largely defines the modern sexual marketplace.
The Benefits of Opportunism
Women love opportunistically, men love idealistically. I’ve written several essays about how Hypergamy predisposes (often subconsciously) women to sexual opportunism, and men’s concept of love is rooted in idealism. I won’t belabor summing up these dynamics today, but if you want to review them you can read through the Love series of posts, and male idealism can be found here.
In 2016, the modern dating landscape, as well as contemporary marriage, has become varying degrees of ‘sex work’. I went into this topic a year and a half ago in Commodifying Love. This post was mostly meant to elaborate on another post Dalrock had written observing the utility feminist had with being miserly with love. I sought to explore it a bit further:
As Open Hypergamy becomes more proudly embraced and normalized in society, so too will women’s sexual strategy be laid more bare. And in laying that strategy bare, so too will women’s opportunistic model of love become more apparent to men. This new apparentness is already conflicting with the old-order messaging that kept men hopeful of realizing their idealistic love state.
Women cannot sell Open Hypergamy and the love-conquers-all ethereal ideal love at the same time.
I daresay this quote was a good bit of foreshadowing. One aspect of having a Red Pill lens is that it allows you to see the writing on the wall in so many ways with regard to intersexual dynamics and how they influence societal shifts. When I proposed that men and women’s concepts of love differ, and that much of the disconnect between the sexes is the result of the fact that we don’t share a mutual point of origin for that love, Blue Pill people got upset.
Women’s concept of love originates in an opportunism stemming from a subconscious need to optimize Hypergamy. To this day I still get angry comments from women for having used the word “opportunism”. Naturally, there’s a negative connotation to opportunism, but I use it in this context to describe a function in women’s sexual strategy. I could’ve used the term ‘practical’ or ‘pragmatic’, but often enough what inspires women’s need to optimize Hypergamy is anything but practical or pragmatic.
Everyone needs to realize that men are the “romantics pretending to be realists” and women; vice versa.
This week I received more than a few requests to give my take on the latest trend in women’s sexual opportunism. This comes courtesy of Vanity Fair and their exposé of the Sugar Babies/Sugar Daddies “dating” dynamic that’s become part of The New Prostitution Economy. Have a read of the whole article, but the short version is a breakdown of how women (all in their SMV peak years) look for “arrangements” with generous men eager to fund their lifestyles or (ostensibly) their education goals. In exchange, these men get the privilege of ‘dating’ if not fucking these women who would otherwise be out of whatever league they ascribe themselves to.
I have a real love-hate relationship with articles like this. It’s far too easy to pile on and get wrapped up in the salaciousness and outrage dynamic – which is really what the article is written to prompt. But at the risk of writing an article about how “horrible women are/becoming” I think this trend is really the next logical extension of what I was describing in Commodifying Love a year and a half ago.
Yes, it’s just prostitution by another name. Yes, there is a pop-culture effort to normalize what would otherwise be a manipulative exploitation of men – but who cares, right? If poor Beta saps have the money, it’s only pragmatic that women legitimize the ‘pay-to-play’ model while they can capitalize on it in their prime years, right? And yes, the feminist narrative will simultaneously vilify the men resorting to being a “Sugar Daddy” while applauding the empowered women who play the game as well as they do.
Sarcasm aside, what’s underneath this dynamic is a graphic illustration of just how women’s opportunism looks when the stigma of keeping Hypergamy concealed from men is now brought into the light and proudly embraced in a feminine-centric social order. The social effort to normalize Open Hypergamy takes another step forward when women’s effective prostitution becomes indistinguishable from ‘normal’ dating – that is dating based on common attraction or interest.
The ‘date’-as-investment-opportunity becomes inseparable from women’s opportunistic concept of, and approach towards, love. Commodifying love and sex blurs the line between what is genuine desire and what is motivated interest. The conventional meme is that women have a difficult time separating sex from emotional investment, but the progression of Open Hypergamy – in this case the deliberate feigning of intimate interests on the part of women – puts the lie to this and reveals the true pragmatism with which women will apply their sexuality. Open Hypergamy becomes open prostitution, but this relationship becomes an accepted exchange or transaction the more comfortable women get with revealing the crueler nature of their sexual strategy.
“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore.”
When we look at women’s opportunistic approach to love, psycho-social dynamics like the War Bride dynamic come into stark contrast next to the Sugar Babies trend – they are both natural extensions of women’s need to optimize Hypergamy and ensure their long term security.
“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore,” says another guy at the bar, a well-known D.J. in his 30s. “They’re not strippers, they’re not on the corner, there’s no more madam. They look like all the other club girls.”
He tells a story of a young woman he let stay in his hotel room one weekend while he was working in Las Vegas. “She met up with this other girl and all of a sudden they had all these men’s watches and wallets and cash. They wereworking.” He laughs, still amazed at the memory.
“It’s like hooking has just become like this weird, distorted extension of dating,” the D.J. says. “ ‘He took me to dinner. He throws me money for rent’—it’s just become so casual. I think it’s dating apps—when sex is so disposable, if it doesn’t mean anything, then why not get paid for it? But don’t call it prostitution—no, now it’s liberation.”
They all look the same because the commodification of intimacy is the same. Hooking is dating when the only degree of separation is in the comfort women have in the transaction. The necessary compartmentalizing of feelings or emotional investment on the part of women – the ones we’ve been sold for so long as inseparable from their sexuality – are only mitigated by men they perceive as having a higher SMV than those who they view as ‘clients’.
Money isn’t a factor in this equation of SMV; why would it be when provisioning is so easily had via dating clients ready to pay her rent or something else comparable? I’ve dug into this before, but with respect to women’s short-term sexual priorities (the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy) money rarely plays a role in genuine arousal; and even then it’s by order of degree in how necessitous that woman may be – or in this case, how entitled to those resources she has convinced herself she deserves.
The larger social embrace of “Sugaring” is an extension of Open Hypergamy. So not only is there an expectation of capitalizing on a woman’s party years, but that once she’s reached the Epiphany Phase she can be relatively confident that her years of Sugaring will be socially normalized and not factor into her long-term capacity to optimize Hypergamy (see the Sandberg effect). Women’s opportunistic concept of love is informed by Hypergamy, so it feeds into the SMP valuation of her intimate transactions.
And this dynamic isn’t just limited to younger women in their SMV peak years; women in their later phases of maturity have also found how useful apps like Tinder are in getting men to do the manual labor tasks they’d otherwise have to pay for themselves.
Genuine femininity has become so rare in our present social order that it can now be bartered as a luxury experience for men who can afford it. So uncommon is feminine behaviors and demeanor now that men will pay a woman’s bills when they can convincingly act feminine, sweet and appreciative. It’s no surprise that married men account for the majority of Sugar Daddies; they seek what they lack in their marriages – sex, femininity, appreciation, caring, even loving conversation – an escape from wives who feel entitled to their efforts and provisioning with out reciprocation.
Even feigned femininity is better than a nagging loneliness in marriage
Transactions
Acknowledging Hypergamy openly is acknowledging the transactional nature of women’s concept of love. It’s ugly, but as Hypergamy becomes an increasingly normalized a blurring of the line between dating and prostitution becomes more common. As I’ve said before, there will come a point that even the most Blue Pill man will be forced to recognize women’s blatant sexual strategies. As it stands now there is some confusion for these guys, thus, we see men wondering who the hooker is and who the available club girl is because both employ similar methodologies.
As a result men become less able to distinguish genuine desire from transactional role playing by women. Even in marriage transactional role playing has already been normalized and a presumption of a feminine frame of authority pervades most marriages – wives allow a husband to believe he’s in his Frame so long as the transaction is beneficial to what her ego believes is her due (see Briffault’s Law).
Solutions & Caveats
Sometimes it’s not enough to simply say “now you know, and knowing is half the battle”. The other half of the battle is taking actions and precautions to avoid the tar pits and protect oneself. In the future I believe it will be imperative for men not only to understand the nature of women’s sexual strategy, but also what to expect from the results of women’s previous decisions to effect them.
Guys ought to consider that by marrying or engaging in an LTR with former Sugar Babies they will not only deal with an Alpha Widow in terms of her sexual past, but also Sugar Daddy provider widows as well. Imagine the lifestyle switch to a lower socioeconomic status than what her former Daddy provided her with. Even dutiful Betas in Waiting will find their patience tested in competing with the previous lifestyle of a Sugar Baby.
Of course the easiest answer is always to recuse yourself from dating a Sugar Baby, to say nothing about entering an LTR with her, but as I mentioned earlier, hooking will be dating or some crossing of that line in the not so distant future. It’s important to bear this in mind, particularly when the transactional nature of it will run contradictory to the narrative that men are never owed sex for anything. The subcommunication is one of an implied contract, but the indignation will be one of men’s non-selected presumptions that sex is what’s being barter for.
From now and into the foreseeable future men must consider women from a realistic assessment of how their sexual strategies inform their decisions and base their own decisions accordingly. It’s also important to remember that the sexual market place differs in various contexts. Usually this context is reflective of the culture or social group engaging in, and reinforcing it. Women sexual opportunism doesn’t change, only how it’s expressed in a social context. Not all women are ‘Sugaring’, however the motives that allow for a normalization of it exist in all women – even the sweet nice ones who want to make a good impression on you.
It’s not impossible to engender a genuine desire in a woman. If that weren’t the case I wouldn’t be writing, but it’s important to be aware of how Hypergamy will evolved social dynamics to better facilitate its optimization. This can be a very damaging influence on both women and the men who attempt to navigate a sexual marketplace founded on unchecked Hypergamy.
@Culum Struan “Hugely entertaining and they have a lot of the actual mechanics of attraction (laser eyes etc) down very well for acting..” Ya that was the big draw to the show for me. I found it interesting how many normal Blue Pill people wrote the pickup scenes in the show off as impossible fantasy fluff that would never happen. But when you understand Attraction, sub-comms, passing shit-tests spiking Attraction, self-amusement/depreciation, confidence, lasers, tonality, etc etc, those picks really aren’t that crazy. Most of them are pretty close to how things actually work. Seasons 1-3 are the best, 4 is… Read more »
@YaReally, I saw a few comments referenceing other people and some of the A1- S3. Was that meant for me or do you still have that in mod?
“We can’t predict future trends at all, it’s impossible.”
Exactly. We can only predict current trends and interpret them in the light of past trends.
One of the past trends is that Black Swans happen.
“Nintendo has little to profit from outright insanity of Poke Go” …lol wut? Nintendo is going to be rolling in money from the hype lol Pokemon Go is a a game product and is not owned by Nintendo. It is owned by Niantic Labs which is not a public company and doesn’t have profit yet. Nintendo owns only 10% of Niantic. Niantic labs based the Poke Go game on it’s former game called Ingress. Which actually has some underlying dynamics like the Feminine Imperative, Red pill Awareness and Game as a “mysterious” force and the “Enlightened” on one Team that… Read more »
@yareally speaking on Californication “Seasons 1-3 are the best, 4 is worth a watch, but 5-7 get pretty retarded. It’s funny, after S3 the show actually BECOMES the cartoon character exaggerated thing the first season’s reviews claimed it was” agreed 110%, season 4 I’m watching going okay but the writers are losing it, and season 5-7 is idiotic sitcom On Rocket You correctly pointed out his sugar babe dumped in, you knew what the reaction was going to be Much like my business examples above where you don’t have a fucking clue how things operate (“be a chode in the… Read more »
Redlight – you can’t disabuse Yareally of his fantasy positions… he just makes new ones up… Me – a farmer? LOL Like any experience he does not want to acknowledge will just be puffed along on a sea of strawmen… all bounded by the catch all “I’m not saying ALLLLL and I never said THAAAT” when both are said and implied ad nauseam. Dripping in snark and feelz… But most worrying, for the casual reader that is, is the complete lack – outside of direct PUA game advice – of Pro Masculinity views and nothing in the way of practical… Read more »
@Sentient
can you define masculinity for us…. in your own terms.
We already have terms that define masculinity, the whole problem is there are those that wish to redefine it on their own terms….
By the way, Pokemon Go is quite interesting in terms of the permissions it demands from platforms … like, nearly unlimited … and the Terms & Conditions. It’s almost like a phishing app..
https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/17/pokemon-go-tcs-strip-users-of-legal-rights/
I could draw a somewhat tortured parallel between P-Go and Yes Means Yes but don’t ahve the time right now.
1. About desire and prostitutes; speaking from experience: Some prostitutes enjoy sex with their Johns. They get plenty wet, and keep asking for sex again and again and again, and when the John cant keep on fucking them again and again and again, they get very pissed off. Some even get terrific orgasms on their Johns. 2. I am not going to talk about sugar babies because I have never been in a position where I paid for rent for, or paid tuition for any woman (except for my wife): but I suspect that many sugar babies do actually have… Read more »
Blaximus Every week at my job lately, I watch as HR struggles with disciplinary actions being levelled at the throngs of mostly young workers who do everything from surfing porn on their phones, to gawking at social media for hours and hours. Guidelines have mostly been blatantly ignored. Well, duh, surfing porn on the institutional network is surely frowned upon, right? Not to mention the firewall oughta be screening hard. Besides, it’s their phone so what’s the prob? They’ll get around to working in a minute, first gotta check this Instagram or that Snapchat or take a quick look at… Read more »
I don’t believe any word of that supposed Reddit Emily post up there. Trolling.
I was watching the older version of this 10 years back: student / intern / 22 year olds sitting at a Dell desktop with a chat client open, social media open and their phone set up by the keyboard for texts. “You’d get more work done on that computer someone else paid for if you’d shut down all the non-work-related things…” Huh? Whut? Din’t hear whatcha said?” 15 years ago during the day I’m having sexual online chats with a woman (who I also met for drinks), and I know I’m not the only one she is chatting with. Suddenly… Read more »
@ YaReally, Sentient, Culum On the concept of viewing things from a Red Pill perspective. I was at a kind of group dinner for an organization I take part in. I was seated with the guest of honour so had a bird’s eye view of all the sexual dynamics in the room. A cute but slightly 30’s flight attendant had joined with her friend. One of my beta gameless friends was working so hard for her attention. It was so bad the guest of honour noticed and made some joke about “Stop working…” At another table the good looking but… Read more »
“You catching pokemon?” and thats it. Why WOULDN’T you use that. Lol, its so easy.”
A point to consider… this is an easy open but does not sexualize… I’ve had good success with Phone Destroyer lines like “swiping left a lot huh…?” etc.”
—-
I have a sick “I have a pokemon in my pants” routine I am going to try out.
@SJF Cough, Cough, yeah Fake altruism. lol ya. turns out altruism isn’t just some thing you hand out to everyone. in fact, it’s only to very SPECIFIC individuals, SUCH AS direct descendants. i’m cool with that. <emOther dimensions: Physical (like weightlifting). Spiritual. Stoicism. Wealth creation. Intellectual dexterity (actually understanding what virtue signalling is.) dude, PUA necessarily INVOLVES ALL OF THAT SHIT (to the extent you personally value it). You can’t be an artist if you don’t know what type of colors you like and the pictures you want to paint. like, go try and get some bad bitches. i’m not… Read more »
I don’t believe any word of that supposed Reddit Emily post up there. Trolling.
You’re implying that a 21 year old cocktease broke up with her boifriend then went on teh internet to whore for attention? Misogynist! Just wait until daddy-wannabe Scribblerg comes after you for insulting an innocent, young, girly. You’ll regret your words, then!
@ya Kenny Powers is epic. That’s basically how I walk into nightclubs lol Inside my head that’s what’s happening even if the bar is completely empty or no one’s even looking at me and I’m just walking in normal etc, just full delusion. lol i’ve entered this mode too dude and i didn’t even realize it. like the other day i was just walking around this mall (believe it or not Hank I was there to get something and i just started walking around being like ‘hmmm what’s it like to approach in a mall, how can i better understand… Read more »
@ Anonymous Reader
And I will take my beating like a man. Heheheeee
But better me. There is a guy called 4realbro up there…I think his comment escaped Scribs notice. When he does lay his eyes on that one, he is toast.
I’ll weigh in on the SJF-YaReally debate now. Their debate is nature v. nurture. Girls are into casual sex because of nature (YaReally’s point). Girls mateguard themselves because of nurture (SJF’s point). Both agree that some girls from all socioeconomic groups make poor life decisions and behave foolishly. The main questions are: 1. How significant is the percentage/number of girls from all socioeconomic groups make poor life decisions and behave foolishly, and 2. Can these girls recover from their bad decisions/foolish behavior? Point one: Girls who make good decisions will likely not even appear on YaReally’s radar. Girls who were… Read more »
@Yareally,Scray,Redlight PUAs I’m having a bit of trouble with Attraction/Comfort mixup. In some social circle/mixed sets situations it appears natural to go straight into JM i.e to a singer “I love music … it gives me these emotions …. how does it make you feel when you are on stage et.c”, I’ve tried it a few times and occasionally with laser-eye contact it can totally fry a girl’s emotions and turn them on. This is especially useful in foreign countries where my C&F lines have less effect (try gaming in a foreign language as a challenge). Rereading MM, It seems… Read more »
@N1 – what is”JM”?
This tribe thing – good when smaller, bad (cause no longer tribal) when gets too big. I don’t buy it. It’s true the smaller tribe governs your behavior in ways that are more obvious, and so then you quite often gotta make up some shit up about why you do what you do, cause you can easily see you are doing shit in alignment with the tribe, but when that particular shit isn’t too palatable to one’s sense of self-agency, and one starts to get some bad feelz in response, there is then a tendency to ignore the underlying actual… Read more »
JM might mean this:
http://yareallyarchive.com/2012/7/#comment-heartiste-356216
shocking news… today there was a breech in the matrix… at 11AM in broad daylight, against great odds… High Plains Drifter was showing on AMC… unedited… with the dastardly Clint “DickSlappa” Eastwood…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjFuN00yGzI
I closed my shades, locked the door, put a hoodie on and watched through my face covering fingers…
[one of the great red pill movies for those interested in those things]
“Mister … what ever you say is fine with me”.
There it is right there – what the ladies want.
@asd
YaReally counters that you don’t really know what girls do…they slip under your radar. Sometimes this is true, but it’s really quite easy to know which girls mateguard themselves and which don’t. There are nice girls who do GNO, but they aren’t Good Girls ™.
http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Jameson-Laughing-Gif-09.gif
How significant is the percentage/number of girls from all socioeconomic groups make poor life decisions and behave foolishly, and
relative to who? those aren’t questions with objective answers. it’s just based on what you PERSONALLY think is ‘poor’ and ‘foolish.’
Life decisions that prevent child-bearing. This really isn’t controversial and only cranks will debate this. Kind of like homosexuality being abnormal biology.
@ scray You may just be right in the end… ” this entire idea of teaching men to be men, as it was in the older times, i think is dead. it’s not going to work. you can have influence in your own community and with your children and everything, but like….in 30 years, that way of behaving will likely come with heavy consequences. and honestly, some of it (there’s a lot of needy asshole stuff that goes with being a natural/old school alpha type) needs to be dropped. i’d rec the alpha 2,0 approach that BD has. that’s compatible… Read more »
@yareally Now you can tell the difference between girls being interested and not interested and friendly interested VS flirty interested etc which is all important calibration to learn so that you know when to plow forward and when you recalibrate and try another angle. Okay, that I DON’T KNOW yet. I am just NOTICING things that I didn’t before. Can’t necessarily tell the difference between friendly/flirty interested. I just notice smaller blips in body language I didn’t before. Agreed on the sexualization thing. I’m using “Are you Tindering or catching Pokemon? ’cause I’m going to judge you for doing either… Read more »
oops the “yaya. only used the opener once. lol” SHOULD NOT be italicized @blax @sentient So yeah, me encouraging men to do *manly* shit sounds Old School, but it is what I do know, no matter what else goes on in society/culture. Sure, I just don’t think it has to be old school “fishin’ at 4 in the morning stuff.” I don’t think you necessarily have to work with your hands. I think its more about MAKING something and taking RISKS. Of going out on a limb and saying “You know what, I am going to do this. Don’t tell… Read more »
I’ve said it before…a man who tries to be a woman will be a second-rate man and a third-rate woman…attempts to change masculinity is like trying to legislate biology…it’s laughable
“I try to encourage the mindset to where they will want to be more self sufficient and confident. That shit might just be Old School, but it worked then, it will work now, and it will work into the future.” Blax – perhaps if one takes a step back, and looks underneath as to what is going on, masculine-wise, despite the context, it’s actually about forming a constellation of convictions that hang together in a strengthening rather than a breaking tension. Then confidence ensues. Then less anxiety ensues (even when the context changes – the behavior will tend to stay… Read more »
@ YaReally ” Blaximus: you ever have a bunch of your male buddies demand a safe space from their teachers where they could hide from someone disagreeing with them on the internet? lol” I don’t comprehend the question. LOL. *sniffle* I was brought up in a lean time of great deprivation evidently. It never occurred to me to *Demand Safety* in any form from another person. ” It’s great that it worked out for you guys specifically. I’m sure when your kids leave the nest they’ll resist all temptations just like kids who eat healthy growing up never eat unhealthy… Read more »
@ hank Hey bro. ” Sure, I just don’t think it has to be old school “fishin’ at 4 in the morning stuff.” I don’t think you necessarily have to work with your hands. I think its more about MAKING something and taking RISKS. Of going out on a limb and saying “You know what, I am going to do this. Don’t tell me the odds. I am just going to do this.” I think there is a lot some guys could get from hunting/woodworking/fishing, but not all guys are built like that. The main thing is to go out… Read more »
@Hank I don’t think you necessarily have to work with your hands. I don’t work with my hands for a living…but I still was able to make the plans for and build my own bar…I bought the cabinets, but I built its frame and wired it and it’s very cool. I can do this because I was taught Old School stuff…never took shop either. I built oscilloscopes from component kits as a summer job. Old School. I’ve gotten up at 4 a.m. to go fishing. You need to keep working with your hands current because the zombies might attack some… Read more »
@blax I believe Manhood/being a man never changes per se, because it is mostly a mindset sorry can’t agree. go look at diff societies across time and space….there’s a huge variation in what it means to be a man. sure you can argue that there’s some limits and bounds, but those bounds are pretty wide. I think that a man knowing how to do shit with his hands and his mind is paramount. Clearly in 2016, that’s becoming ” old school ” thanks to a fem-centered …. *** Rich men never did anything with their hands. you’re just describing a… Read more »
Just this weekend I overheard these 2 girls talking about how they sign up for these alternative sex / bdsm sites just to get guys to clean their house or do their laundry. They of course don’t have sex with the poor betas/omegas.
What a sad state of affairs.
@ The Man ” Blax – perhaps if one takes a step back, and looks underneath as to what is going on, masculine-wise, despite the context, it’s actually about forming a constellation of convictions that hang together in a strengthening rather than a breaking tension. Then confidence ensues. Then less anxiety ensues (even when the context changes – the behavior will tend to stay congruent – as it will still be based on convictions that have been well-tested by life). Then v’s get wet for the tells for that. Hey – I am agreeing with you but I’m just trying… Read more »
scray – yet there is a fundamental universal difference (at least normatively) between the masculine mindset and the feminine mindset. So what gives?
Blax “V’s getting wet is never the initial thought or plan, it is a side benefit or consequence of action, driven by mindset.” That is what I have been saying all along here (and at least once I even offered the opinion that at least Blax here, on this forum, agrees with this), yet some others here don’t seem to see it that way Blax. What I am saying is so simple. I’m trying to get at the most basic elements of the masculine …. therefore simple (simpler than your way of explaining it Blax). Don’ let the words I… Read more »
@ scray ” Rich men never did anything with their hands. you’re just describing a CERTAIN VERSION of manliness and treating it like it’s the end-all be-all. ” I mean, it’s great if a man can gather ( fiat ) wealth and all, and I guess wealth is a kind of version of masculinity, but…meh, I personally am not a big fan of rich guys that never did anything, or can’t do anything of real, tangible worth. If society had to be restarted, they will be useless for the most part. So that addresses this: ” lol more men will… Read more »
This weekend a blue pill buddy and I were out. Things were slow and I held out my arm for a waitress to come fill it (she was built like a brick shit-house, lol) and she quickly moved to do so. She pressed her leg against my arm as she leaned into me. My buddy thought that it was all about getting tips. I’m a stingy bastage and always tip the same percentage and don’t buy much. Waitresses know that. Maybe the waitress was in the mindset of working the clients, but girls like that seem to be slow to… Read more »
@scray
” Rich men never did anything with their hands. you’re just describing a CERTAIN VERSION of manliness and treating it like it’s the end-all be-all. ”
Fuck all you know. Rich people often are stingy bastards and change their own oil and rarely eat dinner out and work on their own homes. Ultra-rich may not have time–but then again they may take the time.
Sam Walton drove an old beat up station wagon while he was worth billions. I bet he changed the oil in it.
“Rich men never did anything with their hands.”
One of the roughnecks in this picture attended Yale, back in the day when you paid or you didn’t go.
http://www.ualrexhibits.org/rockefeller/wp-content/gallery/wr_early_life/wr0264acc.jpg
Later on he won a Bronze Star with oak leaf cluster and a Purple Heart at Okinawa.
http://www.ualrexhibits.org/rockefeller/wp-content/gallery/wr_early_life/wr0417acc.jpg
But you’re probably more familiar with his brothers David and Nelson.
@ asd @ kfg ‘ Rich ” men today make their money by….stealing? No, no, no…they have different machinations. Massive wealth creation via bubbles and wildly inflated markets. That’s how we have 16,000 stock market with lousy employment and lower pay with hardly any benefits. It is a casino economy for the wealthy, and the bouncers won’t let everybody in anymore. Rockefellers have been relegated to the dust bin of history by the New Wealthy, that make money by punching at a keyboard or playing margins or inflating commodities markets or just doing anything that’s not real and tangible. There… Read more »
@scray “yeah what’s weird is that we’ve shown everyone how to hash shit out civilly even where there’s a disagreement several times already lol.” lol there’s a lot of emotional/ego investment going on. Dare to question certain topics and it’s suddenly “OH SO YOU’RE SAYING I DON’T KNOW WHAT I’M DOING AND I SHOULDN’T BE ALLOWED TO POST?!” Uh no, I’m just debating shit. Or “YAREALLY YOU CAN’T USE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE, NOW LISTEN TO MY MASSIVELY SMALLER SAMPLE SIZE OF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT I’VE BASED MY OPINION ON EVEN THOUGH MULTIPLE PEOPLE HAVE CALLED IT OUT INCLUDING THE GUYS I… Read more »
asd, kfg, one thing all those men you mention have in common in addition to their attitude: They are dead. Every single one of ’em. Meanwhile I’m one of the few people in my area who mows his own lawn. Everyone else – retired, working, with kids, no kids – pays some service to do their yard work, most likely with a fair number of illegals. Me, I haven’t been approached by a teenager with a lawnmower in years, but I’ve had grown men with broken English in Mexican accents drive up to my house and offer to do lawn… Read more »
@Bart “The mostly interesting thing to me about this trend is the seeming inability of these girls to think long term.” Women live in the here and now. Why are masculine men having troubles understanding this in this day and age? Didn’t the manosphere through redpillism already figure this out? I find it as interesting as how gray clouds have a habit of bringing rain. It’s to be expected. AWALT. “They indulge in these fleeting luxury purchases to broadcast their falsely high status (not so much what they wish they could buy for themselves, but what they wish a genuinely… Read more »
It is indeed true that many rich men never do anything with their hands. It is also true that many rich men do things with their hands because they can afford it.
“Rockefellers have been relegated to the dust bin of history . . .”
Tell it to David, who helped invent the button pushing casino economy, and who still directs the pushing of buttons.
P.S. I chose a Rockefeller, of that generation, because he didn’t become rich, he was born to it.
YaReally My question would be: why would they even TRY? No one will hold them accountable. Get knocked up by a guy who bails, you’re a strong independent womyn party it up single mom you’re a martyr! I’ve known a few babymommas and single mothers. Some of them settled down. Some didn’t, and milked all the suckers they could, starting with EBT. A couple wound up in prison. All of them were from the middle class or the blue collar, working class, or poor folks, though. Because that’s who tends to walk the walk on abortion – the MC and… Read more »
@YaReally Clinging to old definitions of masculinity while the rest of the world changes is like Blue Pill guys clinging to the old set of books while women are using the new set. It’s a romantic notion, but open your eyes. Nothing romantic about biology and common sense. Nobody here’s clinging to the old set of books about chivalry and marriage 1.0. Go tilt at FI-built windmills or something, lol. …the world changes = the FI is fighting biology, lol…go ahead, follow the FI lemmings over the cliff, lol If Trump is successful at limiting immigration, you’ll see the U.S.… Read more »
Nony Reader….
Your logic is simply flawed… UC and UMC dont really give a shit about abortion being illegal to deny them any access to it… They just hop on a plane and get it done elsewhere… Like they did pre NFD to Reno and similar… Or bought annulments from the church etc…
Money always presents lots of options.
YAREALLY YOU CAN’T USE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE, NOW LISTEN TO MY MASSIVELY SMALLER SAMPLE SIZE OF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT I’VE BASED MY OPINION ON EVEN THOUGH MULTIPLE PEOPLE HAVE CALLED IT OUT INCLUDING THE GUYS I NAMED THAT I THOUGHT WERE ON MY SIDE OF IT BUT NOW I JUST WILL PRETEND THAT NEVER HAPPENED AND DODGE ANSWERING ANYTHING WITH ANY KIND OF SUBSTANCE AND TRIPLE-DOWN ON TRYING TO MAKE FUN OF YOU TO DISTRACT FROM THE FACT THAT I HAVE NO COUNTER-POINTS
A shouting strawman to mock and ridicule, while evading providing counterpoints. It’s Dick from the Internet.
Oops, my comment should have been directed at Nony Reader, lol.
Funny Redlight. Sadly Yareally first doesnt read any initial post with comprehension… Then spends 3 pages building ever more elaborate strawmen… Persistently ignores contra evidence… Throws in a heavy dose of no true scotsman… A few adhominem attacks… Some red herring… And then wraps himself in a victim blanket… Ha…. Funny we are to believe media is all Girls reruns and Michael Cera and yet just today on basic cable the mighty manly Clint Eastwood is there a raping his way across the west. Somebody’s gonna lose their job for sure at AMC… But masculinity is whatever you want it… Read more »
@Sentient
Ya, femininity is unchanging, but masculinity is malleable as shit, lol. Do we really wannabe FI tools?
It’s the same old story, repeated generation after generation…the young think that their reality is all of history and fail to realize that some things never change…yareally, they don’t, ever since Adam started farming back in Eden and made his own tools, working with his hands.
But, hey, abortion and STDs are good for fertility specialists…all those UMC girls will have bucks from their middle management jobs to pay for fertility treatments so they can get their trophy child. I see more and more women who have a single child.
“I’m just debating shit.” I certainly think the criticism of: you’re not listening to what I am saying voiced by Ya cuts both ways. Let me ask you this: Have you or YaReally been influenced at all by anything I’ve said in comments over the last two years? Or do you just plug your ears? Do you wholeheartedly refuse to take stuff I say because it is pure unadulterated bullshit? Do you think anyone else outside of (Ya and Scray) has benefited by me just debating shit in a masculine self improvement and pro-Masculine way (part of what Rollo’s blog… Read more »
Sentient Your logic is simply flawed… UC and UMC dont really give a shit about abortion being illegal to deny them any access to it… They just hop on a plane and get it done elsewhere… Like they did pre NFD to Reno and similar… Or bought annulments from the church etc… Thanks for agreeing with me. Don’t quite see where you address any logic, though, you just repeat what I said. Money always presents lots of options. Yeah. Now, tie this back to your UMC Pure Virgin Unicorns that you were bashing YaReally with, ‘kay? Cause otherwise, you’ve just… Read more »
asdgamer July 18th, 2016 at 9:59 am Point one: Girls who make good decisions will likely not even appear on YaReally’s radar. Girls who were reared properly and mateguard themselves for their future husbands. Good girls who get called “nuns” and are virgin-shamed by cultural voices. Good girls who herd together and support each other. They don’t do GNO at bars but will go to restaurants together, shopping, church (gasp!), UMC dinner parties, etc. […] All girls have the same nature, but nurture can mitigate the impact of nature. Point to SJF for UMC girls. Point to YaReally for the… Read more »
Book report time: anyone besides me ever read on The Time Travelers Wife? Great read if nothing else for the insight into a woman writing first person male – the projection is very interesting. There’s a scene where the female protagonist is in high school in an old money UMC Chicago family, and she’s in love with the male protagonist so she has no time for the high school boys. Her girlfriends, looking at the boys at a pool party, urge her to just do it! Get her cherry popped! Just pick one! JUST DO IT! They’re worried she’s heading… Read more »
@Nony Reader
Dude, you do realize that you are now arguing with yourself?
Actually, I’m not. “Recover well” means “not living in poverty”. It doesn’t always mean “I’m keeping my babymaking equipment in good condition.” I see families with two or more kids.
I’m one of those UMC fathers who didn’t understand the cost of higher ed for women to their progeny. Convincing UMC parents that their daughters should get married/become pregnant while in college will be very difficult.
@Nony Reader There are girlies who do run in packs and they keep each other more or less away from men like YaReally – the serious churchgoing ones who don’t go to bars ever, not ever. And even they slip up from time to time. Surely, just like they did when dinos roamed the earth. But they don’t make an Olympic sport of fucking, lol. And when they slip up, they often marry the man they “slipped” with, lol. These girls often view pop culture with hostility and are fairly well immunized against it, but are not totally ignorant of… Read more »
Actually, I’m not. “Recover well” means “not living in poverty”. It doesn’t always mean “I’m keeping my babymaking equipment in good condition.” Moving the goalposts? Not impressive. I see families with two or more kids. So? And did you do DNA testing to see whose they are? Or did you just ASSume? I’m one of those UMC fathers who didn’t understand the cost of higher ed for women to their progeny. Convincing UMC parents that their daughters should get married/become pregnant while in college will be very difficult. So? What does that have to do with your self-contradiction? You’re just… Read more »
asdgamer . But they don’t make an Olympic sport of fucking, lol. True. And when they slip up, they often marry the man they “slipped” with, lol. How do you know that? These girls often view pop culture with hostility and are fairly well immunized against it, but are not totally ignorant of it. And how do you know that? Seriously? How do you know these things to be true in 2016? And in any event, the seriously religious girlies who work to keep each other more or less in line are rare. They are a minority on college campuses.… Read more »
@scray believe it or not Hank I was there to get something and i just started walking around being like ‘hmmm what’s it like to approach in a mall, how can i better understand hank’s situ?’ well, your malls are not my malls lol. so you are only getting a very rough idea. @yareally Like, you’re building parts of the skillset that guys starting out surrounded by hotties often don’t build and have to GO BACK to build (like learning to genuinely engage people who aren’t “girls I want to fuck” lol). Went to used book store two times, one… Read more »
How do you know that? My limited personal experience. I know girls like this. These girls often view pop culture with hostility and are fairly well immunized against it, but are not totally ignorant of it. And how do you know that? Seriously? How do you know these things to be true in 2016? The Baptist girls (like other tradcons) haven’t changed all that much. riding your White Knight unicorn down the rainbow along with SJF. Not White Knighting. Reporting what I see. Where I go to church in the burbs, I see lots of young two-parent households with two… Read more »
“Sadly Yareally first doesnt read any initial post with comprehension… Then spends 3 pages building ever more elaborate strawmen… Persistently ignores contra evidence… Throws in a heavy dose of no true scotsman… A few adhominem attacks… Some red herring… And then wraps himself in a victim blanket…” What’s with you guys lately? Is it the daughter thing? Is it ego?? Sheesh. I like YaReally, but I don’t take anyone’s word at face value. I don’t care who the fuck they are. But I’ve honestly never come across anything that invalidates his points. And his points are easy to grasp. This… Read more »
me2asdgamer How do you know that? My limited personal experience. I know girls like this. Cool, the “personal experience” game. Can anyone play, or only you? These girls often view pop culture with hostility and are fairly well immunized against it, but are not totally ignorant of it. And how do you know that? Seriously? How do you know these things to be true in 2016? The Baptist girls (like other tradcons) haven’t changed all that much. Really? Are you sure? How many Baptist 22 year olds have you sat next to in a coffee shop in “grey man” mode,… Read more »
@Andy
Do you think men that are strongly masculine, to the point they make YaReally seem to be a vagina (his phrase), are now getting significantly less pussy?
Because this is basic Red Pill too
Not all UMC girls are religious tradcons and they are at great risk for damage to their bme (baby-making equipment). Religious tradcons tend to engage in serial monogamy, from what I have seen, not Olympic-level fucking. Surveys of these girls would fail because of how much girls lie. I’m not sure how we could get hard (heh) statistics. I can see girls who engage in Olympic level fucking in clubs where I go. There are some girls who appear to engage in serial monogamy (which may not be the case for all). I just don’t think we can accurately generalize… Read more »
@Nony Reader Not White Knighting. Reporting what I see. Where I go to church in the burbs, I see lots of young two-parent households with two or more kids. UMC tradcons. White Knighting, because you are insisting NAWALT. No, I’m reporting what I SEE. Cool sample. And they were all virgins at marriage, you know this how? I never claimed that they were virgins at marriage. Hell, even when dinos roamed the earth and I had a gf in college, she had had two men before she met me. She was a tradcon, lol, but she didn’t do Olympic level… Read more »
What the hell did YaReally say?? I didn’t see anything offensive…except for his response to rocket, which rocket was kinda asking for.
Everything else is just us guys talking.
Wait, what? Who am I riding the white knight unicorn down the rainbow for? My daughter? How the hell fuck did that happen? For the record, I live in a whole different universe than you guys are describing. All I ever saw in my life was 90% pair bonded monogamy and little to no divorce. (And it works and it is high quality masculine men and high quality women–I shit you not.) My daughter is two years out of college and pair bonded for one year with a guy I would approve as a son in law. And my son… Read more »
@Nony Reader Can’t you understand the diff between Olympic level fucking at the state schools v. occasional sluttery at devout schools as regards damaging their BME? I remember hose queens being pointed out to me at my tradcon college back when dinos roamed the earth. There is a massive cultural diff between state schools and tradcon schools. At the tradcon school where my kids went, the freshman girls talked publicly that they hoped to find a husband at school. Yeah, I know, this is 2016. I’ll see if I can get more info about the current environment at tradcon schools… Read more »
I left out the part where my son is with a hot looking sorority chick and he is in an alpha position in college. And he doesn’t show any signs of blue pill beta to me. He’s got another 15 years to spin plates, but he is having a great social life to go along with his nearly 4.0 GPA. (he already fucked up a few times in a masculine way prior to 18 y.o, but with support is in a great place. I haven’t heard the kid whine or complain, and I see brightness in his eyes engaging in… Read more »
asdgamer Hell, even when dinos roamed the earth and I had a gf in college Now you’re moving the goalposts from 2016 back to, what, 1983 or 1973 or 1963 something? What’s your point, “In MAH day, thangs were DIFFrent” ? We all know that. Dude. Chill. Nobody here is calling your daughter(s) out, ok? Can’t you understand the diff between Olympic level fucking at the state schools v. occasional sluttery at devout schools as regards damaging their BME? Can’t you understand the diff between a State U with 40,000 or more students and a podunk Bible college with 1,200… Read more »
@SJF
“It just doesn’t apply that much to all to say that all 25 year old chicks are going to slide down the drain like that.”
My extended family must be unicorns, as ALL 20-25 females have gone the boyfriend route, two just completed overseas trips with their BFs, and one just got married.
We see many reports that the nightclub industry is downsizing, as online and other connections work better. How many times a year does the average 20-25 female go to a nightclub anymore?
Re: tradcon/church girl/good girl/suburb girl/ uni girl/UMC girl…. Lol. They’re just girls. Flashback time: At various points in my youth/teen years, I would purposely target ” good church girls ” specifically because John Q Public insisted on placing halos upon their heads. It is a myth that a female is immune to her nature because of where she was brought up, or what her religion is. There are girls that are steadfast for whatever reason, but just being ‘ religious ‘ or ‘ upper class ‘ does not change the spots on the cheetah ( or cheater..). C’mon guys think… Read more »
“Do you think men that are strongly masculine, to the point they make YaReally seem to be a vagina (his phrase), are now getting significantly less pussy?”
Not sure, but probably. I have no idea how much poon woodworkers were getting in the 70’s. Girls don’t care what we define as masculine. This is not a logical process. Attraction is attraction.
All I ever saw in my life was 90% pair bonded monogamy and little to no divorce. (And it works and it is high quality masculine men and high quality women–I shit you not.) Cool story. I guess your life pretty much defines the whole universe, except for that “40% divorce rate”, then? My daughter is two years out of college and pair bonded for one year with a guy I would approve as a son in law. And she totally told you about every single man she ever went out with, ever, right? I though beer goggles were strong.… Read more »
@blax
“Flashback time: At various points in my youth/teen years, I would purposely target ” good church girls ” specifically because John Q Public insisted on placing halos upon their heads.”
if they were like that then, and like that now, what has changed?
Blaximus It is a myth that a female is immune to her nature because of where she was brought up, or what her religion is. There are girls that are steadfast for whatever reason, but just being ‘ religious ‘ or ‘ upper class ‘ does not change the spots on the cheetah ( or cheater..). Yep. There’s a reason why the seriously religious girlies travel in packs, because they do understand their own nature to some degree. I’m around students and some of them belong to one of the campus orgs, I’ve seen them pull each other out of… Read more »
“How many times a year does the
averageabove average 20-25 female go to a nightclub anymore?”(Of course that depends on a definition of above average and for what purpose. And your goals and lifestyle. I’m not judging, either)
I don’t know. I also don’t know your point at 5:57 PM. Please clarify.
@ SJF Brother. You know where I think some of the disconnect comes from re: raising kids ( esp. daughters ) in this crazy society? Guys like us, you, Rollo and Sentient, who took/take raising our kids very seriously, sort of take offense at the suggestion that the outside world may just hold any manner of sway over our family that could overrule our teaching. We understand the dedication and love/work we put in, but there are millions and millions of counter examples of just the opposite strutting around. We come off kind of like we are going against certain… Read more »
@ redlight
‘ if they were like that then, and like that now, what has changed?’
… I’m not trying to fuck them now. Lol.
“Just look at ‘ she whose name I won’t type ‘ and her supposed *struggles* with her religion vs her vagina..lmao. One of the main reasons that I laugh all over her is because she signals to men, particularly us guys in TRM’s comment section, that she is from wealth, she’s beautiful ( her constant description. I’m like …meh ) she’s from the correct side of the tracks, and she’s religious and remaining ‘ chaste ‘ until marriage. By a show of hands, who bought all of that horseshit????” Trick question? She is a confused, not well parented young girl.… Read more »
okay, here we go from 2015: Simply put, not really—at least not as frequently as their Generation X counterparts did at popular discotheques. Countless studies, as well as daily observations, show millennials are no longer opting to go to nightclubs anymore when contemplating the value of a night out. A survey by ULI/Lachman Associates dictates that only slightly higher than 60% of all millennials spend time at nightclubs. Of that 60%, only 25% spend time at nightclubs more than once a month. The millennials who go to nightclubs say they mostly go for “special occasions,” like bachelor/bachelorette parties, viewing a… Read more »
I was too busy this morning at the Dentist and then at work the power went out all afternoon. And I didn’t buy Nintendo Stock because I was distracted. It only went up another $4.00 today. And then after cooking some Walleye on the grill that I didn’t fish for, took my wife on a tour to catch some PoKes in the nearby small quaint downtown suburb in beautiful weather before getting her home to watch the Batchelorette (didn’t watch much of it–would rather ramble on here). Ran into a good close couple–friends of ours– on the walk and had… Read more »
“25% of 60% is 15%, so anybody attempting to extrapolate behavior from this set is missing the 85% boat”
@redlight
Just when I think you couldn’t possibly be more stupid you go and say something like this… And totally redeem yourself!
J/k. Still sounds dumb. Game only works on the 15%?
“popular discotheques”. Lol who wrote that?
@andy
just when I thinking somebody couldn’t out do YaReally in silly strawman, you produce:
“Game only works on the 15%?”
lol
how the fuck did you reach that?
Discotheques: A nightclub where dancing takes place. If I had to find one of those around me, I don’t think I could. I don’t live in nightclub country. Must be a rarefied air. Keys to the VIP clubs and all–real slice of America. Really allows broad sweeping statements about how sexual strategies are working for the bulk of humans. And another note, my children have really been going to big music festivals a lot (separately with their girlfriends and boyfriends and larger tribe). Like that Electric Forest and one last weekend somewhere in Pennsylvania. And they seem to have really… Read more »
@yareally @scray rehearsing my stacks now. when driving, waiting around, etc. did that when I gave speeches and everyone was amazed by them. stacks are a little different — there is a lot of stuff that happens on the fly — but this should help what are good openers for people walking past you? the “was it busy” is a perfect opener for girls at work — its not sexual, but, I think that is actually kind of a good thing in this situ. but I need one for girls I am just walking past. hair opener works, but its… Read more »
@yareally @scray Need advice with this text exchange earlier today. Context: 21yr HB8.5 Croatian. Fucked her last week ONS Me (m): hey big butt Her (h): hahahahaha hey (answers immediately BT spike) M: want to get drinks later tonight (an hour goes by so time to up the alpha) M: i know you want my dick in your pussy but I want to check out bar x first F: hahahahaha F: omg F: did you seriously send me that kind of message M: 9pm M: dress nice M: don’t be later F: i would seriously kill myself if I was… Read more »
@hank
hey, do you where the Osborne building is, I have to meet my parole officer there, well not really that’s just what we call him since he is a stick in the mud
note: the Osborne building does not exist
redlight andy just when I thinking somebody couldn’t out do YaReally in silly strawman, you produce: “Game only works on the 15%?” lol how the fuck did you reach that? Yeah Andy is showing some ass tonight… This is like basic red pill shit you’re arguing against. AWALT. Embrace it. Andy – Did you read anything i wrote here this post? Clearly not… AWALT? But Nony reader is running a close second… There’s a reason abortion isn’t going to be made illegal in this century that no one talks about: upper middle class parents may find it distasteful, they may… Read more »
@hank holiday
See RSDMax’s latest video on opening
https://youtu.be/KCtd3klmB5I
0:58 he opens a girl walking past him in a mall then merges the set with another girl walking by.