Establishing and internalizing a strong sense of Frame is one of the most fundamental aspects necessary for a man’s personal success. I’m hesitant to use the word “success” here because it subjectively means so much to men on an individual basis. “Success” is a relative term, but I intentionally began the Iron Rules of Tomassi with Frame because an understanding of this principle applies to so many different arenas in a man’s life.
It’s far too easy to conflate Frame (and the hoped-for success that can come about from it) with a power-of-positive-thinking motivational vibe. Developing, maintaining and internalizing a personal Frame isn’t derived from motivational thinking. That’s not to say it doesn’t help, but Frame can align either on realizable realities informed by Red Pill awareness or it can be founded on deeply ingrained investments in Blue Pill conditioning.
For some men, a Blue Pill mindset, and the conditioning principles that formed it, is the foundation of what they convince themselves is a very strong, very ‘correct’, establishment of Frame. It quite literally is the reality into which they expect a woman will want to be a part of and will want to readily cooperate within. The problem, of course, is that the Frame they’ve developed is informed by Old Rules/Blue Pill goals that mischaracterize the truer natures of women and what their motivations are.
This insistence of women adapting to a Blue Pill Frame is the root of many a Beta man’s downfall when a woman has finally run out of Alpha Fucks options during her Party Years and she’s “turned over a new leaf” in the necessitousness of her Epiphany Phase. Women aging out of the sexual marketplace are only too happy to appear to be a Beta man’s Blue Pill ship that’s finally come in.
I have heard many times, from well-intended Blue Pill men, some variation of the Just Be Yourself self-righteous expectation that women should want to enter into his Frame. “If a woman can’t accept me for who I am, she’s not the right (quality) woman for me” is the standard refrain. The Frame is strong, the expectation is (seemingly) strong, but the Blue Pill foundation it’s built upon is flawed because it is influenced and conditioned by the Feminine Imperative that always expects him to focus outwardly instead of making himself his own mental point of origin.
If they were honest, these are the guys who will Beta Hamster their Blue Pill ideal of the ‘right’ girl being any one who acknowledges his Blue Pill Frame.
There’s usually some self-evincing rationale that sounds similar when a Blue Pill guy has his Frame challenged by a woman unwilling to play along with his “world”. Whether he comes to this by rejection or simply observing women’s solipsism and duplicity, the reasoning is never about the validity of what his Frame is based on, but rather the disqualification of a woman who contradicts his ego-investments in it (i.e. they become “low quality women” to him).
However, many a White Knight will have what, for all purposes, is a very strong personal Frame. This dedication to a Blue Pill conditioned mindset is central to their ego-investments and it’s a big reason why it’s so difficult to unplug a man from it apart from some trauma that shakes his investing his personality in it. And even then, it’s far easier to disqualify the women who want nothing to do with his Frame than it is to get him to reconsider his fundamental, Blue Pill, old books belief-set.
As I was picking apart the conditions that lead to a man like Steve from last week’s post to becoming what he is, I found it’s important to highlight the determination with which most men will defend their Blue Pill investments and defend the investments of other Blue Pill men with whom it aligns with.
From Enter White Knight:
Every random chump within earshot of your conversation about Game, about your ‘changed’ way of seeing inter-gender relations, about your most objective critical observations of how women ‘are’, etc. – understand, that chump waits everyday for an opportunity to “correct” you in as public a way as he’s able to muster. That AFC who’s been fed on a steady diet of noble intent, with ambitions of endearing a woman’s intimacy through his unique form of chivalry; that guy, he’s aching for an opportunity to prove his quality by publicly redressing a “villain” like you for your chauvinism. Even under the conditions of relative anonymity (like the internet), he’ll still cling to that want of proving his uniqueness just on the off chance that a woman might read his rebuff and be fatefully attracted to him.
The more invested a Blue Pill man is in his Frame, the more ardent a White Knight he’s likely to be. The problem in all of this is that his dedication to that Frame, and the expectation that ‘quality women’ will rationally and deductively appreciate it, is in error. Women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate their reality. Even the most enlightened, appreciative woman you know still operates in a feminne-centric reality.
It’s easy to spot (and get annoyed with) a White Knight when he comes to the aid of M’Lady on an internet forum, but the defender-of-the-faith behavior also extends to other men, like himself, given to the same Blue Pill Frame and ideals. From a Red Pill perspective we know this is virtue signaling, but it’s also indicative of reaffirming a White Knight’s dedication to a Frame and belief-set that requires a constant reassurance in the face of so much observable contradiction.
Blue Pill Frame / Red Pill Awareness
In the manosphere, there’s a tendency to characterize the Blue Pill mindset with non-assertive “people pleaser” men conditioned from an early age to defer to women and sublimate themselves to the Feminine Imperative. For the most part, that generalization fits, but I think it’s important to understand that it’s entirely possible for otherwise very Alpha men to invest themselves in Blue Pill paradigms and then build Frames up around them.
While I was writing this, reader Softek had a very good take on how Frame can be applicable from both an Alpha and a Beta perspective:
Steve’s relationship is PERFECT.
It is in EXACT ALIGNMENT with his Frame.
His Frame, which he voluntarily maintains, is that of a Beta male. Weak, submissive, and priming him perfectly to be cuckolded.
Similarly, my relationship with my GF is perfect.
It’s in exact alignment with my Frame.
This is how it always works. It’s the only way it CAN work. Your Frame is your reality, period, end of story. I’m sticking to this idea of women having no Frame, because I think it can help men to realize that the man’s Frame – as far as the man is concerned – is the only thing that matters.
I’m going to stop here because this is one of his few assertions I don’t entirely agree with. Women’s innate sense of Frame is informed by their fundamentally solipsistic nature. How that solipsism is expressed can take different forms, but in all instances it places the experience of the woman as being central to her own importance.
The easy example is the Frame grab I outlined in The Talk where a woman (consciously or otherwise) seeks to assert her experience as being the primary Frame or when a man abdicates his Frame to satisfy a woman’s need for long-term security. The other side of this is that even when women are considered ‘powerless’, and they are acted upon (hypoagency), their solipsistic experience is still central to the nature of any Frame because that presumption of powerlessness informs her solipsism and she builds her Frame around it.
Women most definitely have a Frame; it is informed by solipsism and its state is determined by what her need for optimizing Hypergamy demands at any phase of her maturity and how well she is likely to consolidate on it. I understand what Softek is getting at here, but just observe Beta men who are trapped in submissive roles to their dominant wives and you’ll see how he’s acted upon within her Frame.
If your Frame is what you really want it to be, you’re all set. You will simply not put up with BS, so it won’t be necessary to calculate what kind of BS or shit tests are being thrown at you, because you’ll automatically pass them without even being conscious of them.
At a deeper level, there is no your reality vs. her reality, or who has more power in the relationship.
It all goes back to your relationship with yourself. Your Frame. You decide what you accept in your life, and what you don’t accept.
Everyone has been telling me to get out of my relationship. Why? Their Frame is different. Maybe they have more self-respect. Maybe they have more confidence. But ultimately, their Frame is different.
They would not put up with half the BS I’ve put up with. They would’ve been gone a long, long time ago and onto greener pastures.
I’m getting what I deserve. I’m getting the relationship that is PERFECT for me, which means it’s perfectly aligned with my [current, malleable, changeable] Frame.
Frame isn’t set in stone. It’s ours to control, and ours alone, because it belongs to us each individually.
If I want a different relationship, I need to change my Frame. What do I want? What am I willing to accept? What am I not willing to accept?
This is a very important point, to understand that Steve’s relationship is PERFECT….for him. A complete match with his Frame.
If you dig into WHY he’s in this relationship, it’s for that reason and that reason alone: it resonates with his Frame. It resonates with the perception he has of himself, and the rules he’s laid out for himself in his life.
He is doing exactly what an Alpha does: living 100% by his Frame.
It’s just that his Frame is weak and submissive instead of strong and self-serving.
It’s funny when you look at things like this. When you realize you’re already “Alpha” in the sense that you know how to live 100% in your Frame….what’s stopping you from changing your Frame?
You already know what it’s like to hold Frame. Not everyone can stay in an abusive, sexless relationship. It takes a pretty extreme Beta to put up with all that. I am a fucking Beta God. I will put up with more abuse than any man on this planet. I’m the most abject Beta in the world.
(I’m being deliberately hyperbolic here, bear with me)
The most abject Beta is simply the other side of the Apex Alpha coin.
Both stubbornly hold to their Frame. The Beta holds to his Frame to his inevitable cuckolding and destruction; the Alpha holds to his Frame to his self-gratification regardless of who tries to shame him or bring him down.
We need to stop thinking “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good” and realize that Frame is subjective.
I may not agree with some of this, and considering Softek’s dependence on maintaining his relationship it’s easy to see why he feels this way, however, he does touch upon some foundational aspects of Frame. Yes, women get the men they deserve, or in this case, women enter into relations with the men who align with what they’ve created.
As I mention in Frame, yours should be a world women will want to enter or you will be entering her Frame. That said beware the motives of the woman who would eagerly embrace a Beta’s Frame. Those motives are rooted in necessity and not genuine desire. Just ask Saira Khan.
Understanding that a solid sense of Frame – literally creating a reality in which you live and expect others to interact within – is central to success is not a difficult concept to grasp for most men. Whether or not they feel an ownership of that Frame, or a motive to employ it, is what defines men’s understanding of it. And this discomfort men have in insisting upon a solid, active, Alpha Frame is precisely what the Feminine Imperative has sought to condition into men for going on five generations now.
Recently I’ve been commenting on yet another article of feminist triumphalism, glorying in the statistics that women are far happier after a divorce. This is standard feminist boilerplate, but the bloody handed cruelty of articles like this always ignore that the “men” they denigrate are the direct results of a generational conditioning that leads men to swallow Blue Pill idealism and abdicate Frame in the name of a nebulous egalitarian equalism.
As 39% more men put a gun in their mouths after a divorce, women will bemoan a generation of men the Feminine Imperative created to abdicate their Frame. So yes, when it comes to men becoming despondent and suicidal after having their Blue Pill idealistic ego-investments destroyed by the same imperative that invested it in them, yes, “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good”.
A Blue Pill frame is based on scarcity. I’m now much more chill around girls but the interactions I have are much better. Girls i’m banging often tell me about orbiters or other guys they know as “non-sexual”. Establishing that sexual frame is critical after sparking attraction. Under-estimating pre-selection is a Blue Pill frame I am slowly but surely shedding. A few girls in my rotation have said or alluded to me banging other girls. I never say yes or no. But a scarcity mentality pops in once in a while and I worry if it’s a turn off for… Read more »
[…] Blue Pill Frame […]
“The problem, of course, is that the Frame they’ve developed is informed by Old Rules/Blue Pill goals that mischaracterize the truer natures of women and what their motivations are.” A Blue Pill frame mischaracterizes the true nature and motivations of men as well. Personally, I think that fact might be more important. Men are not docile asexual people pleasers by nature. We’re programmed to believe we should tame our masculinity, and our sexuality is harmful and should be hidden and controlled. Suppressing who you are is what makes you feel like a piece of shit, and it just leads to… Read more »
“Women’s innate sense of Frame is informed by their fundamentally solipsistic nature. How that solipsism is expressed can take different forms, but in all instances it places the experience of the woman as being central to her own importance”. My SO’s had an upbringing with an absent alcoholic father, and her employment puts her in contact with similar dysfunctional families. These experiences are her point of origin for her frame that men are not good parents. This has always been a huge frame battle before I learned about RP. Before I would cave into her due to her profession, but… Read more »
Rollo every day I wake up and smile because within me I change and realize I am more than capable of being the man I want to be.
Your part played in that is staggering.
Any time Rugby, any time.
“A Blue Pill frame mischaracterizes the true nature and motivations of men as well. Personally, I think that fact might be more important. Men are not docile asexual people pleasers by nature. We’re programmed to believe we should tame our masculinity, and our sexuality is harmful and should be hidden and controlled. Suppressing who you are is what makes you feel like a piece of shit, and it just leads to depression, incongruence and creepiness or being friend-zoned.”
This comes to mind in effort with what we learn than what is their.
@ Rollo: “Women most definitely have a Frame; it is informed by solipsism and its state is determined by what her need for optimizing Hypergamy demands at any phase of her maturity and how well she is likely to consolidate on it.” This is a good post. But the quote above is worthy of some further exposition. It’s actually worthy of its own separate post. Women’s frames are characterized by all the things you mentioned. There are other things too. In order of importance: –most importantly, her feelings. Everything revolves around her emotional state at any given moment. It’s why… Read more »
Following up: Ultimately, men’s and women’s competing frames are really all about power. Each frame attempts to assert power in the relationship. What’s different over the past 50 years or so is that the FI now has law, culture, government, Church, and every other societal institution supporting it. So the woman’s frame has more power by default — a situation that women want because it makes it easier for them to get what they (claim to) want. The FI also says, implicitly and explicitly, that a man’s frame is for all intents and purposes illegitimate. It is wrong, criminal and… Read more »
Rollo, I don’t agree that women’s default solipsistic frame is the only frame that they can have. An alpha will pull a woman into his frame and a woman will morph her frame to fit his. A woman in a relationship with a beta will assume a dominant frame and the beta will morph his frame to fit hers. A woman who is a free agent will assume a different frame.
A Blue Pill frame is based on scarcity.
No. A Blue Pill frame comes from FI programming. Alphas can be Blue Pill and not operate from scarcity.
A Blue Pill frame is founded on reciprocity.
“..The FI also says, implicitly and explicitly, that a man’s frame is for all intents and purposes illegitimate. It is wrong, criminal and perverted to operate within a man’s frame..” So true. The other day my wife, in one of her shit storms, said I was a bully because I would not take her on a date unless she wore decent , feminine clothes. I laughed and said “you don’t know the half of it, honey. I am also a racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, capitalist oppressor of the working class, white priveleged patriarch.” I realized that she was using the… Read more »
Those ‘women are happier’ is a highly dubious interpretation as that wasn’t the question they asked. The question was whether or not they regretted the divorce. That is definitely not the same question, and answering in the affirmative would require the respondent to be admit to making a mistake if they are the ones who initiated (which women are, about 70% of the time). The other thing is that this is not “women who got divorced are happier than women who chose not to”. Generally, the opposite is found. Of course that doesn’t sell the message that other people want… Read more »
Rollo thank you for another great article. I too thank you for what I’ve learned, the dots I’ve connected thru my own experiences, as well as others. I cannot “un-see” what I see going on today, and I’m glad you put a light on what would normally be in the dark.
Please keep up the good work, you have helped many, but i can say personally both of your books were fundamental in my awakening. Again, Thank you sir.
Glad you could benefit Craiger.
Being a man and identifying as such is as much a part of our environment as it is to do with anything else. The loss of manufacturing in the west led to a decline of men being seen as men. The service industry was the preserve of women, until men were forced into those careers. There’s not much practical purpose for masculinity in this day and age. We have to accept the social-economic beta reality of our lives. There’s no escaping that. I like the idea of frame. But it’s dependent on how much control we have on our surroundings.… Read more »
@ ollieoxenfree ” …I like the idea of frame. But it’s dependent on how much control we have on our surroundings. A man with a bully for a boss can’t be secure in his frame. What I’m trying to say is you can’t fake frame.” I wholeheartedly disagree with this right here. Your surroundings matter second, always. What a man always has control over is himself, his mind. Believe it or not, there is great comfort for a man when he understands that he is never his surroundings or what others think or do. Imo, that is dangerous thinking that… Read more »
So – this guy, right?
Really appreciate your work Rollo. I feel like I’m getting more insight everyday.
Found your work via Dalrock – another leader of men.
@Lost patrol, thanks, welcome
Been reading all your articles in the last couple of months.
This one is good too. Great read as always.
Evening All, I thought you chaps would be interested in a “science” based article I’ve found: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160630-the-enduring-enigma-of-female-desire It’s entitled “The Enduring Enigma of Female Desire”. Here’s a bit from the article (it acknowledges that women can lose sexual desire in a relationship more profoundly than men, but then rationalises this in much the same way that Saira Khan rationalises the same situation in her relationship with her husband): “For women, however, the loss is often much more severe, possibly because testosterone provides a buffering effect for men against things like mood, stress and fatigue. Women, on the other hand, often… Read more »
Thats why its better to ge younger women whose frame isnt strongly developed yet.
..or strengthen yours properly.
@yareally @culum @habd @blax @PUA Went to mall in good city but funny thing is, I actually feel bad now about this place from being here a bunch and not progressing, whereas the mall in the “bad” city now I’m like WTF who cares, and doesn’t stress me out as much going there. Anyway, at mall, didn’t see easy opportunities. There’s several harder sets, like girls on the phone or in big groups, but needed some early successes to pump me up enough to do those. Got very frustrated. Left and went to bookstore. Chatted with a girl in manga… Read more »
I wanted to punch a guy in the face in a church for trying to publicly “correct” me on the subject of women. Nothing boils my blood faster than a beta cuck running his cuck mouth about shit he knows nothing about. The white-knight cuck factor is why I’ve come to realize it’s all or nothing lads. If you just have to speak publicly on the matter of gender relations, go full, non apologetic alpha or nothing. Even if people disagree with you, they will respect you for the fact you unapologetically don’t give a fuck what they think of… Read more »
I doubt that divorce makes women happier.
I’ve often seen how women decay physically after divorce. In the case of my, ex who kicked me out some months ago, I receive a continuous stream of emails and messages with poems and love declaration. It looks as if she (post wall) is astonished at the quantity of thirsty dorks who want to enjoy her poon without investing anything on top of her suddenly being responsible for the full costs of her livelyhood.
More dribble from the horrid Australian feminist Clementine Ford…
“Women are happier after a Devore”
There’s been an interesting documentary on the BBC recently called “Mr v Mrs: Call the Mediator”. The program follows various couples going through varying degrees of acrimonious break up.
Being a regular reader here, I was not surprised that the entire “mediation” process was completely dominated by women and that the Female Imperative reigned supreme. That said, observing how ruthlessly the men were being treated (tooled) was still unexpectedly shocking.
Sometimes I believe the best way to strengthen your own individualistic frame as a man is to do things by your self for yourself. What I mean is accomplishing things in your career, for sport or at the gym or during overseas travel alone provides men with a sense of self worth and self belief. Also particularly with married guys or guys entertaining LTR’s doing this reaffirms that it is YOUR frame you want as the primary not the woman’s. This and a healthy understanding of the importance of a male dominant, confident frame for the health of any relationships… Read more »
It’s very gamma and anti masculine to come uninvited to another’s site and shill your blog…. If you were masculine you would understand the ” hierarchy of the group” dynamic and that you need to earn the respect of your fellow men BEFORE you start advancing your agenda. So something like posting quality comments for a period of time, have guys requesting more posts more details etc. BEFORE you yap about your site… Basic stuff like that. And for a class move you never mention your blog, just link it to your profile. Fucking millenials… Raised by single moms… Think… Read more »
Hank What are you doing? What is your intent in these bits? What do you look like? And do you wish to have sex with women? Real questions… To me it seems you would be better served doing 10 minutes of open mike night and get this dancing monkey out of your system before you go out. I ask what you look like because gay bits are fun and can work but WHEN it is obvi you are completely NOT gay… So if you might look gay you should can these bits… And no bits are going to work if… Read more »
What is a man without any frame?
Do we all have frame?
Even if it’s by default?
Therefore can I argue:
Blue Pill frame is built on “neediness” and requires external validation / approval. Like having a frame when you really don’t have a frame, really it’s no frame at all, rather a lack of it.
The antithesis of being in a position of power, content within yourself, (no fucks given, take it or leave it) simply internalizing the terms you demand to live by.
“It is my contention that women (who have full, rich “emotional” eyes) deliberately try to make contact eye-to-eye with men, who have poor, weak, glazed, non-emotional gazes, and when this fails, they assign the label of “thing” to him — or “useful dog.” Sorcerygod – OK you finally said something that makes some sense and is actually kinda profound. Except wrt the subject of “eyes”, I think what the women are selecting for, is the “wolfman” eyes. They want to sense the emotional intensity (everybody does actually), but since it’s gonna have to be the masculine variety (being the eyes… Read more »
ATT1LA – this “frame” discussion is bit misleading imo. Quoting for Rollo’s “Mental Point of Origin” article (Nov 14, 2014): “Your mental point of origin is really your own internalized understanding about how you yourself fit into your own understanding of Frame. If Frame is the dominant narrative of a relationship (not limited to just romantic relations), your mental point of origin is the import and priority to which you give to the people and/or ideas involved in that relationship. It is the first thought you have when considering any particular of a relationship, and it’s often so ingrained in… Read more »
Re: @Horatius67 upthread a bit – “Whether she knows it or not, my wife has accepted the FI and is using its tool kit.” So fucking THIS. Another masterpiece, Rollo, truly. You may note I mostly don’t try to analyze your essays because I rarely think I can add to them. They stand on their own, and I just appreciate them. But they do fire off so many reflections on my own life and world. In no particular order: “The Toast” – a feminist site that just went under, publicly lauded by the likes of Madame President Hillary Clinton (practice… Read more »
@hank Got very frustrated. Left and went to bookstore. Chatted with a girl in manga section. She said . . . something . . . but all I heard was I get it…some of these chicks are low value AND on top of that can be difficult, but you really have to charge your ego to the game. just let it go, especially before you’ve fucked any chick. remember….it’s never over. try to actively work on giving value and keeping a positive frame of mind. if you’re going to turn the mall into a place where you’re pretty much doing… Read more »
Scrib – I pretty much agree with the way you are framing some of the more deranged aspects of our current culture but I don’t really agree that nothing can be done about it. If each person adopts a more healthy perspective, and this happens enough, our memetic and mimetic human nature will see to it that such sentiment spreads, and when it spreads far and wide enough – it spreads like wildfire. Every time such dynamic has occurred in past history, such gestalt has been thwarted though ……. imo because the “more healthy human perspective” is not easily understood… Read more »
@Scribbler The Sebastian Junger book The Tribe (that Culum mentioned at the end of the Princess Experience comments) also has as it’s major theme, the increase in victim-hood seen in claims for PTSD in the military. Simple PTSD is often temporary and resolves. It is very, very low in Israeli post military because of the community. It is increasingly more common in today’s U.S military even as combat casualties become less in each war, and is more seen in these military troops that are not in forward positions. He also talks about how social conditioning of large societies screw people… Read more »
Disclaimer: In no way am I advocating for settling. And I’m not advocating for 35 year olds to slow down and stop charging ahead full steam. Not at all. In that podcast, Sebastian Junger also recounts how he was not afraid to die as a war journalist. He was set to go on another assignment in Libya during the Arab spring with the guy he made the movie Restrepo with, Tim Hetherington, but he passed (for balance in his life) because of new thing in his life in New York. And unfortunately Tim Hetherington was killed by a mortar shell… Read more »
SJF – a very much like that Junger quote you just posted. Calls for forbearance and equanimity (as well as the courage and the wisdom).
Excellent breakdown. Hank’s push/pulls were extreme. Not necessarily bad. Sure, they break a girl’s frame, but then you have to provide a LOT of comfort.
“Hey, look, I was just messing with you because I like you.” [pull her in for a hug, then get in her grill with a moon-eyed/soft smile visage and laser her] You haltingly say, “I want to get to know you better.”
Of course, this assumes that you are calibrating often and accurately, which lack of calibration was Hank’s main problem, which he stated.
Gamer Maxim: Calibrate early, calibrate often.
@SJF – Restrepo is amazing, Junger is the real deal for sure. A man to listen to. Re: Hank’s field reports – Learning a lot from the responses. I think what I’m doing is leashing to much in A1, which is not a bad adjustment for me as I think I was not well calibrated. But now I go for the chill vibe too much, yet when I try a gambit to spike an HB, it always works better. Witness the HB7 from last Saturday night. I reopened clumsily, “We – my friend and I – we were just saying… Read more »
As long as Rollo’s talking about Frame, BluePillProfessor from MRP reddit had a good lecture and explanation about Frame factors in a youtube audio. He draws on Rollo and Heartiste and obviously has more of a married red pill lean. Frame is a hard thing to describe because your individual frame is precisely that: an individual frame. Your Frame is yours and yours alone. It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters –Epictetus Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one. –Marcus Aurelius Technical notes: He starts out… Read more »
Hey I see “ESL” thrown around alot ’round these parts. What’s it mean?
@all Strongest frame always wins. Russell Brand sucks everyone into his frame wherever he goes because he has an insanely strong frame. Everyone reacts to Russell Brand. Girls have stronger frames than guys by FAR, but it’s because guys’ frames have been battered down by their FI conditioning. The chart from the weakest frame to the strongest frames would basically be 90% of men, then 90% of women, then another 5% of men, then a huge gap, then the other 10% of women, then a huuuuuuge gap, and then the other 5% of men. Going out and testing your frame… Read more »
English as a Second Language
ESL = English as a second language
What is this callback humor you speak of?
Chilling listening to Crosby, Stills, and Nash. You don’t hear that much on the oldies stations.
Scribblerg I’m glad you brought up eusociality, it’s an interesting topic that is relatively unnoticed. Howard Bloom in the Lucifer Principle has an interesting take on it. Eusociality offers a diametrically opposite view on modern psychology which is overly focused on introspection without actually observing the group dynamic which in reality causes pathologies in the first place. It’s an insidious way to shift the problem onto the individual and develop ‘coping’ mechanisms without addressing the pathology of the group dynamic. If modern social group structures are sick is it any wonder people respond with sickness. How can a responsible man… Read more »
@theasdgamer “What is this callback humor you speak of?” When you set up an in-joke with a girl and then call-back to it later to spike her Buying Temp. @all Meanwhile in Blue Pill world: “You’re Not “Awkward” With Women. You’re Just Creepy”, an article to remind shy introverted boys to never feel entitled enough to DARE talk to a woman: http://archive.is/4OzaU Written by a man who, well, you can read all about him for yourself lol http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/15/houston-press-writer-jef-rouner-tweets-picture-of-his-own-daughter-to-self-confessed-pedophile/ And in other news, Mattress Girl has been given the Woman of Courage award by NOW for making up a false rape… Read more »
” The problem with mental pint of origin is that no man is an island, mans greatest need is meaning and having a purpose, eusociality demands it. Otherwise the group neural network (hive mind of eusociality) subtly whispers, kill yourself… Frame is important but is trumped by meaning and purpose.” Does anyone reading along really, truly believe this line of thinking? I’m asking not as a slight or jab, but this whole way of seeing life, like there are ZERO option except working within the dictates or society or ” others ” , framed in such terms as complying is… Read more »
” Frame is a hard thing to describe because your individual frame is precisely that: an individual frame. Your Frame is yours and yours alone. ”
I’d love to go all prescriptive, and fight the urge to do so, precisely because of this point. Frame is individualistic.
And not all frames are ” good ” for men, like the title of this essay reflects.
But I think I have a workable formula, lol. I’ll just wait a while for other guys to weigh in and give me more to ponder.
@sentient @scray You guys need to NOT comment on guys new to game. You two are a fucking train wreck. What are you doing? What is your intent in these bits? What do you look like? And do you wish to have sex with women? And for the love of Mystery get your hands on her early “thats a nice … Dress necklace tattoo etc” and touch her while being close and starting to laser. “Hey i like how your hair hangs down here” and brush her hair back. Etc. I have never had a gf. Never kissed a girl.… Read more »
If women are solipsistic, don’t they possess the ability to discover they lack the philosophical aptitude of a man? Wouldn’t a woman usually defer to a man who verbally defeats her time and time again, rationalizing it as ‘I’m with him, so it’s natural he’s better than me’?
If women are solipsistic, don’t they possess the ability to discover they lack the philosophical aptitude of a man?
If women were able to consider a POV other than their own, possibly. But then, they are solipsistic, lol.
Hank, I wrote a post aimed at autists, but it works well for any beginner.
@hank You guys need to NOT comment on guys new to game. You two are a fucking train wreck. lol But despite that fact, I am STILL going out. I am STILL trying and keep up the momentum and learn what I can. k cool, that’s step one. i was there. that’s why I’m telling you what I’m telling you. I’d say the same thing back to myself! overgaming basically signals your inexperience which is why it quickly turns into a DLV. Did that for 30 some odd hours last few weeks. Hopped around bars chatting with people. Do it… Read more »
@ hank Bro, you are doing what you can as a beginner, I think you are way ahead and getting better, especially as you post fr’s here and go through your thoughts. If I can, I offer something, but I’m not PUA. I think it’s absolutely key that you stood up for yourself and reminded all of us that would attempt to offer any help, of just where you are and what the situation is when you go out. scray may have needed just a little reminder, but trust that he is trying to help out. Sentient too, but he… Read more »
@Hank Was not even THINKING of gaming. Was just trying to open and keep at it to get over negative headspace. Was trying just not to quit and head home. Then you achieved your mission goal. Congrats. The post-mortem is usually helpful, too. “What was a good follow-up to X situation?” Julian’s vid showed an example of providing comfort, like I suggested, without the lasering and halting speech. Julian wanted to keep the woman moving. If he stopped, it would be as easy to start back as to continue to the “afterparty”. Julian vid showed the woman throwing shit tests… Read more »
@hank What would you do to push her into A2? I feel like the convo never really goes anywhere. The girl won’t really get into the convo until you push it forward. 90/10 rule and all that. yes 90/10 but proportionate to the stage in the interaction. so on the initial meet, think of yourself like a 5-20 second tagline. you invest a few seconds of being cool and awesome, and then you ROLL OFF and let her take a bite. now if after you ROLL OFF she’s still lukewarm, you can take a second and try again (probably shorter)… Read more »
What are C&F routines? I’m sure I’m the only dummy here who has that question, it being so obvious and all, lol.
Dancing and emotional impact FR Last night an early-20s woman (HB6) I danced with remembered dancing with me months before. I had made an emotional impact on her simply by dancing with her. Once. Another early-20s girl (HB6) I danced with last night gave me a hug. And wanted a pic of her and me. So I played standoffish briefly when she was doing some dilatory shit and then I pulled her in and she leaned her head on my shoulder. Some guy with her group said that she was talking about me all night. Hyperbole, but I made an… Read more »
@hank holiday “You guys need to NOT comment on guys new to game. You two are a fucking train wreck.” lol’ed “I have never had a gf. Never kissed a girl. Never touched a girl. Basically all this stuff it new to me. So i am doing these things for the first time, and its usually in an open venue, in front of lots people.” Both of those guys have more of a Natural mindset (regardless of how they got there) so it’s harder to relate to your situation because you’re just frustrating…like “just DO it man!!” But I remember… Read more »
@wala “A few girls in my rotation have said or alluded to me banging other girls. I never say yes or no. But a scarcity mentality pops in once in a while and I worry if it’s a turn off for them” I’ve gotten this from a girl I been seeing recently. She is 18 and a virgin (allegedly) and was initially really interested in how many people I’ve fucked. To which I told her some absurd number. Then claimed to be a virgin. She believed neither. Kept asking though. How do you respond when a girl persistently asks you… Read more »
Regarding the Elizabeth Gilbert divorce, the best tweet:
Eat, Prey, Kill
Hank Feel better? Got it out of your system now? Good. Here is the real deal… no pussy is going to to plop onto your dick because you did the hard work… it only will when you’ve done the right work. It is a brutally hard concept to digest for most… not just in game or sexual relations but in life in general… There are no participation awards that will mean anything to anyone at the end of the day. So take whatever comments I may make (and I’ve held off on most of your Fr’s) with this reality in… Read more »
Thanks Rollo for all you do and your thought leadership. oh and Happy Independence Day! I feel that Blue Pill frame and Red Pill awareness is the worst and why we get so many suicides, apathy and MGTOW. It’s tragic to KNOW what is going on and being unable to change your circumstance. A big change in my life happened when I realized that I don’t have to subordinate my needs as a male. In our feminized society we are told to not date a woman just for the prospect of sex. We are told not to expect devotion and… Read more »
@ Ang Aamer ” So since it’s not believed that Man will just be Nice. Don’t be. Be honest, Brutally honest. State your needs early and often. And what you will discover is that the honesty moves more women into your frame than not.” Agreed. But if a guy decides that he is happier being ” nice “, then he should be that. The understanding is that women do not appreciate overly nice guys. They finish last. I am a supporter of men being honest. The ” brutal ” part is optional…but workable. One can go too far in either… Read more »
@yareally Personally I would rather work as a janitor at a McDonald’s making just enough to afford rent/food in some tiny cheap apartment sleeping on a mattress on the ground, than live in a city with so few options. Like I don’t know if you’re holding out for a certain type of job/career (and don’t tell us details ’cause privacy and all that) or applying for just anything right now, but if you’re holding out definitely consider taking some bullshit job in the big city that can cover rent/food. You can keep applying for a better job from there, but… Read more »
“Externalization CAUSES you to change your internals. That’s what you don’t get, because …. blah, blah blah (some made up shit about me) blah blah.”
Yes – that’s what I said, and what I have been saying all along … externalization causes you to change your internals …… which ….. wait for it ….. is the real change!.
Hahaha! – you funny – man.
I’m sitting out the looks matter battle on nose hair, and please please do not post pictures
if a guy is comfortable and naturally nice, he might just revert back to that condition under stress ( or shit tests ). In another part of my world it’s said thus: You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your training That means a man needs to be trained to deal with (whatever) to the point that it is an unconscious response. Unconscious competence…and that includes visualization, self-talk, “if this then that” mental drills for them that didn’t get the Natural memo. Then you look all kinds of incongruent to her. Then, the trouble starts. Very… Read more »
@ hank Have you ever bought condoms or practiced putting them on? Ever bring them with you anywhere, like keep one in your pocket or your car or something? Put them on and masturbate into them and get used to how they feel? Get a fleshlight or make a makeshift one, put a condom on and pretend you’re fucking a girl? Just buying condoms and using them and having them feel normal in your life can be a huge help. Getting a fleshlight was a huge step for me for multiple reasons (overcoming guilt/shame/etc., and also experiencing a simulation of… Read more »
Concerning the equality of keeping Alpha and Beta sufferer frames and the sides of one coin, I would a bit more prudent. The former needs strength to overcome adverse forces while the latter comes with no effort.
Meant this link
Re: Sentient’s rant beginning with “no pussy is going to to plop onto your dick because you did the hard work… it only will when you’ve done the right work.” This insight is missing from many millennials I encounter, and not just in the area of pussy. I think many of them/you (get all pissed millennials, it will be amusing to read) have been trained by our weak-ass educational system to believe that everything in life has a recipe of sorts. A “7 Steps to Awesomeness”, Buzzfeed, kind of hip, snarky description of what to do. A “listicle” if you… Read more »
@SJF – Glad you liked the podcast too. Sounds like we like similar sorts of books (Talent Code, Practical Female Psychology, Tribe..etc). I’m hoping to get to the book Junger mentions in the podcast (Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari) later this week so I’ll let you know if I liked that one. @hank holiday – just to say props on consistently going out despite all the logistical issues and being a virgin etc. How old are you btw? I think I’ve posted before – I had my first kiss at 23 and sex at 24 – once you get going… Read more »
Why are you in the woods @scribblerg? Like that’s not a sarcastic question or a suggestion – I’m just asking why do you live in the boonies if you don’t like it and want to be in the big city? You don’t have any family ties or anything – is it purely financial? As I just posted to hank above, I have a weird two-city existence myself and I’d rather spend all my time in the big city – but I’m working on changing that – spending more time in the big city over the next couple of years (getting… Read more »
@ hank holiday, YaReally „Tyler has a lot of stuff on getting into state (like his Six Steps vids) will look at these“ Tylers Six Steps are the shit, they were a big epiphany for me, because they WORK . By shifting your definition of „success“ away from „I must get pussy“ to „I followed the steps“ you shift your focus away from outcome („pussy“) to the process itself („approaching“) and this is key key key. Also what Tyler says in one of the vids explaining The Steps, by shifting your frame of mind in this way you eliminate obliteration… Read more »
@ Scribblerg Nice rant like Danny Devito,I have some good friends in NH,members of the Nantooket river club,albiet they are all 50 plus years old. So are you going to adopt and mentor these retarded guys,maybe start a band,or teach them some skills? I have been hireing these strawberries [ pink soft and bruise easilly]for 25 years now.They talk a good game,can’t play for shit,once in awhile I find a gifted one[the gift of desperation]that can suck it up and be something.The world doesn’t owe any of us anything,if we want something we have to go out and earn it… Read more »
Young felllas – Here is what you are after. What d’ya gotta change about your inner self, …… change about your own constellation of convictions that inform your behavior (behavior = your active link with your circumstances, ….. your world) in order to inhabit your own version of this?: Redpill is one of many schools that are in the business of counseling for a changing of your programming (programming = your belief system and therefore your convictions upon which the beliefs are built). For humans – self-changing this programming (self-programming) is actually possible because we are devilishly insane beings. We… Read more »
That guys character is unemployable because of his attitude.
Old George told me the new goal is,for the young americans to run the rest of the world by keyboard.This seemed farfetched to me at the time and i still can’t picture it ever working out.
StuffinBox – “That guys character is unemployable because of his attitude.”
But hey – Good Will Hunting – pretty damn good movie though – right? The dude is so smart, he clearly sees everybody’s BS, …. turns him cynical. But he is not so good at seeing his own BS ……. until he does ……. then the hope is, at closing scene, that he can give himself a break, and therefore give everybody else a break too, and therefore give his life a break, …. and become less cynical.
Nice message huh?
@Water Cannon Boy
Cuck in training.
@hank okay i get it, you’re super ego invested and don’t like being critiqued. so yeah massive props on going out and taking steps to get it handled. i waited to help before i saw you consistently posting FRs because you seem like you’re in it to win it. at the same time, you aren’t going to get past this stage if you don’t just accept it. here, you’re saying that ‘yeah no i’m doing that’ in response to like half of the stuff I’m saying to do. you aren’t. here, let me pull up some of your recent interactions… Read more »
@ya Right now Scray comes off like he pretty much lives and breathes being in state, which is awesome for him and I’m happy as fuck to see that, but it makes it harder to give relatable advice to guys still struggling. yeah, this is important to note too. The way I see it, tho, you’re here already lol. Like, I just remember what helped me. It wasn’t until I started focusing on my mindset that I could even really fully appreciate all the tactics you were giving me. That’s why I’m just like…’dude, fuck thinking that way, it’s gay,… Read more »
Some of the responses included a couple that said her brother is “going to be going places”
Friend zone, heart ache, divorce court…
@ scray re: giving value My experience with mentorship is it’s kind of an organic process that unfolds without any spoken agreement being uttered. Kind of like relationships with women, or how they should go. No “negotiated desire.” Just organically evolving and progressing based on genuine desire. This comes from giving value. Thanks for emphasizing that point. What’s funny is with my friend, our relationship has ALWAYS been about mutually giving value. Just naturally. Without even thinking about it. And it’s insane to me to think of analyzing this or even saying it’s “giving value” because it’s so fucking obvious… Read more »
@scray @hank holiday “Like, I just remember what helped me. It wasn’t until I started focusing on my mindset that I could even really fully appreciate all the tactics you were giving me. ” Ya but I could have told you on day one “just give value dude” and it wouldn’t have helped. You have to go through that awkward stage of trying routines and shit before advice like that even makes sense. When you’re a newbie you don’t even know what value IS or what value you HAVE or what value people can GET from interacting with you because… Read more »
That 11-year old boy’s notes on dating sound like they were written by a trad con woman. Poor bastard.
Emily on Reddit today
As I said, the way TRP describes hypergamy is that women date upwards in terms of overall value, which they emphasize means looks (people like Rollo Tomassi have told me this directly …
@ YaReally From “Monsters and Magical Sticks”: “The combination of internal belief systems (brought about by traumas, suggestions, or what have you), and the repetition of patterns of behavior that reinforce belief systems, simply results in an individual who is stuck and without choice. You must look not at what the world is doing to them, but rather what they are doing within the world based on what belief system and what patterns. Since a form of hypnosis has been used to convince them that things exist which do not exist, or that things do not exist which do exist,… Read more »
Too cryptic, whatever relevance that quote has went over my head lol
@ hank Highly recommend taking up a hobby. My hobbies have branched out into a profession, and this is always a possibility, so keep that in mind. Even as a cottage industry, there’s a market for just about everything. Think about buying some supplies. Do you like art? Computers? Woodworking? Music? Cars? One of my friends recently took up an interest in wood carving. Has no idea how to do it and never did it before. Started out by buying a spokeshave and is learning how to hone blades and shit like that. My interest in nutrition led to starting… Read more »
Ranting? Oh boy… Not hardly. These were just simple measured questions and observations.
You are homing in on the Alpha Triad… Being dynamic, passionate and authentic. Universally attractive traits that bring you supra Game to an abundance life.
@ Ya Basically, if you want to teach someone, teach them. Guys are wasting their time and energy dealing with people like hank unless they’re directly trying to teach him and help him improve. If the attitude is “fuck you, go be a pussy and throw your life away,” it’d be better IMO for all parties involved to just not say anything at all. Teaching people is not easy, though, and you have to get on their level. Classic hypnosis: people will get defensive about beliefs they have, even if there’s no rationality behind them, and putting people on the… Read more »
@ Sentient I’ve been on an upswing lately as I’ve been getting back in touch with my passions. Also, it’s worth noting that teaching people is of benefit to everyone. AFAIK, memory retention is the HIGHEST when you teach someone else how to do something. It’s like 90% retention or something. The best way to really lock down skills and what you’ve learned is to teach someone else how to do it. I wouldn’t be surprised if YaReally’s game has improved just by posting things here and reinforcing all that stuff in his mind on a regular basis. I’ve learned… Read more »
FR tl;dr I balked on an easy lay with a HB7. I learned an important lesson about myself and about how to game myself. It’s also an example of indirect game. I walk into a long-distance bar (45 min driving time) that I frequent occasionally. I know quite a few people in this bar, most of whom I avoid. Why isn’t important. I sit down to jaw with a buddy who is an old fart and a bit of a blow-hard and excellent story teller. A big, physical man. Bawdy as hell and fun. So, he starts telling me his… Read more »
Lol maybe. I win either way: hank thinks I’m a prick and hardcore follows your advice to become a super pimp. Or he opens himself up a little and follows all the advice to become a super pimp. In both instances I’ve helped.
Maybe you think I’m being so harsh that he might give up? Doubt it.
But yeah, this is good feedback for how to help new guys too so I’ll try to tailor it a little bit.
@all I didn’t think anyone was being a prick. I just though a lot of people had a very wrong idea of where I was when they were giving me advice. Like I said, scray and sentient were on the money with what they said . . . had I been more experienced and in a place where I could easily game. But they didn’t really know that. @softek You can teach people pretty much anyway. You just have to be able to calibrate it. The more extreme you go, the more on the ball you have to be as… Read more »