Blue Pill Frame

BluePillFrame

Establishing and internalizing a strong sense of Frame is one of the most fundamental aspects necessary for a man’s personal success. I’m hesitant to use the word “success” here because it subjectively means so much to men on an individual basis. “Success” is a relative term, but I intentionally began the Iron Rules of Tomassi with Frame because an understanding of this principle applies to so many different arenas in a man’s life.

It’s far too easy to conflate Frame (and the hoped-for success that can come about from it) with a power-of-positive-thinking motivational vibe. Developing, maintaining and internalizing a personal Frame isn’t derived from motivational thinking. That’s not to say it doesn’t help, but Frame can align either on realizable realities informed by Red Pill awareness or it can be founded on deeply ingrained investments in Blue Pill conditioning.

For some men, a Blue Pill mindset, and the conditioning principles that formed it, is the foundation of what they convince themselves is a very strong, very ‘correct’, establishment of Frame. It quite literally is the reality into which they expect a woman will want to be a part of and will want to readily cooperate within. The problem, of course, is that the Frame they’ve developed is informed by Old Rules/Blue Pill goals that mischaracterize the truer natures of women and what their motivations are.

This insistence of women adapting to a Blue Pill Frame is the root of many a Beta man’s downfall when a woman has finally run out of Alpha Fucks options during her Party Years and she’s “turned over a new leaf” in the necessitousness of her Epiphany Phase. Women aging out of the sexual marketplace are only too happy to appear to be a Beta man’s Blue Pill ship that’s finally come in.

Behold, Camelot

I have heard many times, from well-intended Blue Pill men, some variation of the Just Be Yourself self-righteous expectation that women should want to enter into his Frame. “If a woman can’t accept me for who I am, she’s not the right (quality) woman for me” is the standard refrain. The Frame is strong, the expectation is (seemingly) strong, but the Blue Pill foundation it’s built upon is flawed because it is influenced and conditioned by the Feminine Imperative that always expects him to focus outwardly instead of making himself his own mental point of origin.

If they were honest, these are the guys who will Beta Hamster their Blue Pill ideal of the ‘right’ girl being any one who acknowledges his Blue Pill Frame.

There’s usually some self-evincing rationale that sounds similar when a Blue Pill guy has his Frame challenged by a woman unwilling to play along with his “world”. Whether he comes to this by rejection or simply observing women’s solipsism and duplicity, the reasoning is never about the validity of what his Frame is based on, but rather the disqualification of a woman who contradicts his ego-investments in it (i.e. they become “low quality women” to him).

However, many a White Knight will have what, for all purposes, is a very strong personal Frame. This dedication to a Blue Pill conditioned mindset is central to their ego-investments and it’s a big reason why it’s so difficult to unplug a man from it apart from some trauma that shakes his investing his personality in it. And even then, it’s far easier to disqualify the women who want nothing to do with his Frame than it is to get him to reconsider his fundamental, Blue Pill, old books belief-set.

As I was picking apart the conditions that lead to a man like Steve from last week’s post to becoming what he is, I found it’s important to highlight the determination with which most men will defend their Blue Pill investments and defend the investments of other Blue Pill men with whom it aligns with.

From Enter White Knight:

Every random chump within earshot of your conversation about Game, about your ‘changed’ way of seeing inter-gender relations, about your most objective critical observations of how women ‘are’, etc. – understand, that chump waits everyday for an opportunity to “correct” you in as public a way as he’s able to muster. That AFC who’s been fed on a steady diet of noble intent, with ambitions of endearing a woman’s intimacy through his unique form of chivalry; that guy, he’s aching for an opportunity to prove his quality by publicly redressing a “villain” like you for your chauvinism. Even under the conditions of relative anonymity (like the internet), he’ll still cling to that want of proving his uniqueness just on the off chance that a woman might read his rebuff and be fatefully attracted to him.

The more invested a Blue Pill man is in his Frame, the more ardent a White Knight he’s likely to be. The problem in all of this is that his dedication to that Frame, and the expectation that ‘quality women’ will rationally and deductively appreciate it, is in error. Women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate their reality. Even the most enlightened, appreciative woman you know still operates in a feminne-centric reality.

It’s easy to spot (and get annoyed with) a White Knight when he comes to the aid of M’Lady on an internet forum, but the defender-of-the-faith behavior also extends to other men, like himself, given to the same Blue Pill Frame and ideals. From a Red Pill perspective we know this is virtue signaling, but it’s also indicative of reaffirming a White Knight’s dedication to a Frame and belief-set that requires a constant reassurance in the face of so much observable contradiction.

Blue Pill Frame / Red Pill Awareness

In the manosphere, there’s a tendency to characterize the Blue Pill mindset with non-assertive “people pleaser” men conditioned from an early age to defer to women and sublimate themselves to the Feminine Imperative. For the most part, that generalization fits, but I think it’s important to understand that it’s entirely possible for otherwise very Alpha men to invest themselves in Blue Pill paradigms and then build Frames up around them.

While I was writing this, reader Softek had a very good take on how Frame can be applicable from both an Alpha and a Beta perspective:

Steve’s relationship is PERFECT.

It is in EXACT ALIGNMENT with his Frame.

His Frame, which he voluntarily maintains, is that of a Beta male. Weak, submissive, and priming him perfectly to be cuckolded.

Similarly, my relationship with my GF is perfect.

It’s in exact alignment with my Frame.

This is how it always works. It’s the only way it CAN work. Your Frame is your reality, period, end of story. I’m sticking to this idea of women having no Frame, because I think it can help men to realize that the man’s Frame – as far as the man is concerned – is the only thing that matters.

I’m going to stop here because this is one of his few assertions I don’t entirely agree with. Women’s innate sense of Frame is informed by their fundamentally solipsistic nature. How that solipsism is expressed can take different forms, but in all instances it places the experience of the woman as being central to her own importance.

The easy example is the Frame grab I outlined in The Talk where a woman (consciously or otherwise) seeks to assert her experience as being the primary Frame or when a man abdicates his Frame to satisfy a woman’s need for long-term security. The other side of this is that even when women are considered ‘powerless’, and they are acted upon (hypoagency), their solipsistic experience is still central to the nature of any Frame because that presumption of powerlessness informs her solipsism and she builds her Frame around it.

Women most definitely have a Frame; it is informed by solipsism and its state is determined by what her need for optimizing Hypergamy demands at any phase of her maturity and how well she is likely to consolidate on it. I understand what Softek is getting at here, but just observe Beta men who are trapped in submissive roles to their dominant wives and you’ll see how he’s acted upon within her Frame.

If your Frame is what you really want it to be, you’re all set. You will simply not put up with BS, so it won’t be necessary to calculate what kind of BS or shit tests are being thrown at you, because you’ll automatically pass them without even being conscious of them.

At a deeper level, there is no your reality vs. her reality, or who has more power in the relationship.

It all goes back to your relationship with yourself. Your Frame. You decide what you accept in your life, and what you don’t accept.

Everyone has been telling me to get out of my relationship. Why? Their Frame is different. Maybe they have more self-respect. Maybe they have more confidence. But ultimately, their Frame is different.

They would not put up with half the BS I’ve put up with. They would’ve been gone a long, long time ago and onto greener pastures.

I’m getting what I deserve. I’m getting the relationship that is PERFECT for me, which means it’s perfectly aligned with my [current, malleable, changeable] Frame.

Frame isn’t set in stone. It’s ours to control, and ours alone, because it belongs to us each individually.

If I want a different relationship, I need to change my Frame. What do I want? What am I willing to accept? What am I not willing to accept?

This is a very important point, to understand that Steve’s relationship is PERFECT….for him. A complete match with his Frame.

If you dig into WHY he’s in this relationship, it’s for that reason and that reason alone: it resonates with his Frame. It resonates with the perception he has of himself, and the rules he’s laid out for himself in his life.

He is doing exactly what an Alpha does: living 100% by his Frame.

It’s just that his Frame is weak and submissive instead of strong and self-serving.

It’s funny when you look at things like this. When you realize you’re already “Alpha” in the sense that you know how to live 100% in your Frame….what’s stopping you from changing your Frame?

You already know what it’s like to hold Frame. Not everyone can stay in an abusive, sexless relationship. It takes a pretty extreme Beta to put up with all that. I am a fucking Beta God. I will put up with more abuse than any man on this planet. I’m the most abject Beta in the world.

(I’m being deliberately hyperbolic here, bear with me)

The most abject Beta is simply the other side of the Apex Alpha coin.

Both stubbornly hold to their Frame. The Beta holds to his Frame to his inevitable cuckolding and destruction; the Alpha holds to his Frame to his self-gratification regardless of who tries to shame him or bring him down.

We need to stop thinking “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good” and realize that Frame is subjective.

I may not agree with some of this, and considering Softek’s dependence on maintaining his relationship it’s easy to see why he feels this way, however, he does touch upon some foundational aspects of Frame. Yes, women get the men they deserve, or in this case, women enter into relations with the men who align with what they’ve created.

As I mention in Frame, yours should be a world women will want to enter or you will be entering her Frame. That said beware the motives of the woman who would eagerly embrace a Beta’s Frame. Those motives are rooted in necessity and not genuine desire. Just ask Saira Khan.

Understanding that a solid sense of Frame – literally creating a reality in which you live and expect others to interact within – is central to success is not a difficult concept to grasp for most men. Whether or not they feel an ownership of that Frame, or a motive to employ it, is what defines men’s understanding of it. And this discomfort men have in insisting upon a solid, active, Alpha Frame is precisely what the Feminine Imperative has sought to condition into men for going on five generations now.

Recently I’ve been commenting on yet another article of feminist triumphalism, glorying in the statistics that women are far happier after a divorce. This is standard feminist boilerplate, but the bloody handed cruelty of articles like this always ignore that the “men” they denigrate are the direct results of a generational conditioning that leads men to swallow Blue Pill idealism and abdicate Frame in the name of a nebulous egalitarian equalism.

As 39% more men put a gun in their mouths after a divorce, women will bemoan a generation of men the Feminine Imperative created to abdicate their Frame. So yes, when it comes to men becoming despondent and suicidal after having their Blue Pill idealistic ego-investments destroyed by the same imperative that invested it in them, yes, “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good”.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@scray “You get hit on any old dudes today? Ah, me too. Its cuz of my big booty. All the guys are like ‘I’m straight and all, but I would totally tap that guys ass. Totes tap that ass. No homo. No homo. But I would do that dude.’” and if customer comes up “Oh, go ahead man. We’re just talking about getting hit on by old dudes and how my ass brings all the boys to the yard.” And in victoria secret to things like “Need suggestion on perfume.” “Is this for your girlfriend, wife?” “No. Its for me.… Read more »

bluepillprofessor
6 years ago

@Deti: “Frame is all about power, really. The person who dictates the frame they operate in is the person with more power in the relationship.”

I have said it before: Everything is about power except sex. Sex is about money.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@bluepillprofessor

that was not in your book, I want my money back (or sex)

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@bpp

I have said it before: Everything is about power except sex. Sex is about money.

How is money involved when women have casual sex with alphas? Or are you talking about sex within LTRs?

@red

I want money AND sex.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@Hank

So try new things that will allow you to build social capital where you are. What would James Bond do if he were in your situation?

Try new approaches and new venues. WWJBD if he lived where you live?

Is there a meetup group organized around some activity that you like? Maybe you can try a new meetup group.

I’ve been trying new stuff myself.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“I have said it before: Everything is about power except sex. Sex is about money.” Wait. What? I never heard you say that before. And I want to pay you a lot more than I paid for your book. That was a heck of a great service you provided to the manosphere space by writing and offering that book. In the same tradition of Rollo Tomassi. You guys are fun and add value. Thanks. But what the hell is going on here with the above statement? Are you in one of your bad moods? LOL, my project in married man… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

Frame is all about power. Up until the point that frame is not power and your woman partner has more of it.

Frame is grace (simple elegance or refinement of movement).

averagechump
6 years ago

It’s been awhile since I’ve posted here. The comments are all still great, and the posts are all still very informative. I know a lot of people here are experienced and all, but I’m going to post an infield report so that passing noobs like myself can be informed: In the past several weeks I’ve only asked out (or approached) 6 girls. Girl 1 and 2: This was at a bar. Within the last two months I’ve gotten used to the extreme loudness and wildness of highly-active bars and clubs while being on my own. These two girls were friends… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Averagechump for real? You choose the screen name “averagechump”? Out of anything in the whole world… this i show you want to be known? Why? Why or why? Do you think the reason you did this will have any bearing on your game success? explain. As to your FR… don’t freak out man… It’s good you are opening, but what exactly are you doing? How are you working up attraction or DHV’ing? Teasing? Negging, qualifying, disqualifying, kino sexualizing etc? Have you looked at the YaReally Archive, CH, Mystery Method, RSD etc? Without understanding the process you are going to end… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

http://tosh.cc.com/blog/files/2014/08/littleleaguehobby.jpg @hank Love your FRs. Mad props. I’ve been dipping my toes when I have the time. Cold approach is f’n hard. Doesn’t make any sense why it’s hard, but it is, lol. Ur way more clever and funny than me. I can’t seem to qualify for some reason. I’ll get past it. The more I get into this shit the more humbled I am. “I win either way: hank thinks I’m a prick and hardcore follows your advice to become a super pimp. Or he opens himself up a little and follows all the advice to become a super… Read more »

scray
scray
6 years ago

@hank first of all, You ARE at that stage in the game where these critiques can be as they are. that’s probably the NUMBER ONE thing I’m trying to impart to you. ya cool you’re out there! yay! phase has passed and now it’s time to just get that work done. These were just examples of what I was thinking of saying, but generally couldn’t get up the nerve to do. I have only actually done a few of these — hit on by old dudes. That’s it actually. okay that makes my point even better. that’s where your MIND… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

I saw a bunch of moms taking care of their small, small children today at the country club social scene. It was strange because they were so invested and it was bizarre to see tribal culture actually working well. My wife and I did that scene 25 years ago and it worked out well, but never actually remember going through it. Saw it up close today, including my wife’s niece and 12 month old daughter. And hung out with some adult older couples, our age, who actually behaved like a egalitarian tribe. It was strange compared to what goes on… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

wordplay is fun… I quite enjoy it. But you have to watch what you are doing and be heading in a direction. otherwise you will get nothing. Action though is far superior, and early kino is always good. The other day I was on the train. Have about 6 stops to where I was headed. it’s crowded. I’m standing holding on to a stripper pole. two young girls get on and crowd into me. I have my back to them. Also I am wearing sunglasses… At the next stop, some people get off and a seat opens and the girls… Read more »

averagechump
6 years ago

@Sentient

During the day (or anywhere not a bar or club) I generally follow the Krauser model, since it makes the most sense to me. During the night (bar or club) I follow the RSD model. They are kind of similar, and I’m not good at either, but they serve as guidelines.

Really though, when I walk up to some random girl, there’s generally not a thing on my mind other than “well, here we go…”

Also, I chose “averagechump” because it’s a really cool name.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“A parrot can say anything Albert Einstein could say, as well as mimicking the sounds of phones ringing . . .”

And it’s damned annoying to get out of the shower to answer the parrot, I can tell you.

The Awakened One
The Awakened One
6 years ago

@yareally Been reading up on sub comms and watching the Josh the matador video from Keys to the VIP from your comment about writing pages of text from a few seconds of video: https://therationalmale.com/2016/01/06/the-red-pill-balance/comment-page-7/#comment-135608 Notice at 12:02 on approach 2 he’s peacocking by conventionally appearing to be the highest value man in the vicinity. Three girls (blonde girl, green dress girl and girl he locks eyes with before he approaches are checking him out (doesn’t show her eyes but her head is facing him)). Blonde in back is talking to her two friends to say that guy is sex worthy… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

@averagechump – good work on getting out there and putting in effort to improve yourself – taking action (consistently) is the hardest bit. It sounds like you and I have some similar sticking points – the self-ejection in good sets in particular (like the girls who opened YOU for a photo or the girl who said you’re hot). You just need to focus on improving your skillset. Sentient gave you great advice – I’ll just say it in a slightly different way. Basically you need to get systematic. Social skills (of which pickup is a subset) are skills that can… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@scray @hank “if i went through all these FRs I bet I’d find similar stuff wrt the DQ’ing and DLV’ing (but maybe not!) because the one example IRL i have from you is with the ESL chick” lol tbh I think that’s the problem and where the disconnect is. You really DO need to go through his FRs and read his history ’cause that ESL set was the anomaly not his average set. Like I’m trying to figure out what you have against his opener which has blown girl after girl wide open, but if you’re just looking at the… Read more »

stuffinbox
6 years ago

Blue pill frame,oxymoron,based on fantasy of women being reciprocal,nurturing toward men,empathetic,open and honest,selfless soft creatures,making huge sacrifices every day and always knowing and doing what is best for the whole of mankind. Blue pill frame,while non existent as frame at all,seems to be a type of irresponsible chaos,subject to the solipsistic whims of the feminine imperative.This type of non plan seems to stem from the matrix,coupled with a human need to be cared for,as a child needing constant care,without responsibility. Red pill frame,a type of structured way of life,based on a mans realization of the necessity for mature responsible action… Read more »

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@YaReally: nice video from Max and good analysis.

What did you think of Max dissing Red Pill?
His message seems to be about not judging girls, but I don’t think you need to attack Red Pill for that.

Maybe he misunderstands what Red Pill is (intentionally or not). Red Pill doesn’t need to including the judgmental. He was just describing and demonstrating how girls can do precisely what Red Pill describes and then turns around and goes “Red Pill = misogyny”…

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@YaReally

That vid makes me crazy with all the chaos shit, lol. I have to stop it frequently. Good stuff, but my input processor gets overloaded quickly.

I agree with Max that trusting your gut (calibrating) is essential. Natural Game is just indirect game.

I should have directed the C&F question at scray because he said it, not you. I didn’t think that I’d get hits googling C&F, but I did when I tried…surprise!

scray
scray
6 years ago

@ya think there’s something lost in translation: lol tbh I think that’s the problem and where the disconnect is. You really DO need to go through his FRs and read his history ’cause that ESL I agree! so i said: “but fine, I’ll take it all back. keep posting those FRs and we’ll see if it’s a sticking point or not.” so yup, on the same page. His opener is fine, no hate or anything but the only difference between his opener and your example is that yours is amusing to YOU lol the ‘camping’ stuff wasn’t an example of… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Blue Pill = FI programming = being plugged in to the Matrix

Red Pill = deprogramming the FI programs you’ve assimilated into your mind = unplugging from the Matrix

TRP is essentially changing your mind and eliminating lies so that reality becomes clear and you interact with reality instead of with fantasy

YaReally
6 years ago

@IAS “What did you think of Max dissing Red Pill?” They are too busy hitting the field to pay attention to anything outside of PUA so they don’t really know what Red Pill is. Like all of the stuff here and in the Manosphere and MGTOW and MRA etc is just fluff to them. Like Tyler isn’t reading TRM (no offense Rollo, personally I think they SHOULD), Max isn’t skimming the RVF forum, I doubt Jeffy would really even be able to define MGTOW, etc So in their view the “Red Pill” is basically what most of the Manosphere is… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Reply to  YaReally

He’s a serious question to anyone. What would you do if you just found out that one of your parents was in a porno?
It’s been frustrating to experience.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@hank@ya lol sorry, I read that as sarcasm like “okay fine you big pussy if you’re gonna cry about it I’ll take it ALL BACK YOU’RE PERFECT you happy now?” lol My bad. nah, i was being legit like ‘okay i have this hunch BUT I HAVE TO CONCEDE’ that i haven’t read all the info, so clean slate is the fairest way to handle it. i’m trying to GIVE VALUE after all! 😀 that’s so funny tho that i came across that way. Right I’m talking more about the “don’t say gay shit” and “that opener doesn’t give value”… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Culum Still don’t do numbers.. Keep the phone clean. If I did follow up it is easy enough to get them both out because I validated logistics up front, i.e. two girls alone in hotel, traveling looking for things to do etc. Easy to invite them both out (lower asd) and then play them against each other. If both wouldnt work you could then just hook up the other with a random guy you bring in set. Run the whole “lets see how about that guy, you would have awesome babies” and deal with cockblock that way. Thought about you… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@scray “but ya, Hank i mean I have a billion little mental techniques that will kickstart your state if you want to hear them (some of them I haven’t seen on the RSD videos — but they could all be on there, lol i haven’t watched ALL the RSD videos).” I think a lot of guys could benefit from that. There’s no real one-size-fits-all solution but it helps to hear what other guys do. Like when I get ready to sarge, as I’m showering up and everything I’ll have music videos and porn running lol Just to get myself in… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Rugby

“What would you do if you just found out that one of your parents was in a porno?”

Did you find out mid or post completion?

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Reply to  Sentient

@Sentient
I think it’s already been shoot.
Found a picture but it may be from a film.

honeycomb
honeycomb
6 years ago

This guy is so mis-guided .. on so many different levels .. and in the end is passing on bad advice to his daughter ..

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jul/02/a-letter-to-my-wife-who-wont-get-a-job-while-i-work-myself-to-death

BTW .. she doesn’t care .. suck it up cupcake .. you signed on the dotttted line .. game over Capt Beta Blue Pill

Agent P
Agent P
6 years ago
theasdgamer
6 years ago

also she fucked him after the breakup because AWALT lol

Amazing how many women hit it with their exes, even during a divorce, lol, against court orders

Agent P
Agent P
6 years ago

Happy “drink a lot and blow shit up day” to our American friends. May you still have a country one year from now, either way it looks sketchy.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@YaReally self-amusing is supposed to be something you do regardless of whether you’re in state or not because the self-amusement aspect of it is what PUTS you in state ASD (Autistic Spectrum Disorder) warning: We on the spectrum have to be careful not to get to stimming (self-stimulating) when in convo with others by spending much (if any) time talking about our pet obsessions. That’s a sperg trap. Beware! If you’re not on the spectrum, ignore this warning. +1 on focusing on what gets you in a self-amused state as long as you’re not stimming In Tyler’s vids, I can… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Happy “drink a lot and blow shit up day” to our American friends.

Model planes and ships…wish I still had some to blow up…my friend and I would rig a plane to slide down a rope line and we’d light a fuse at the start…it was glorious!

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@honeycomb: that article is a Beta Bux nightmare. It even seems she doesn’t do that much at home. Fairly high likelihood the woman is a) not having sex with him b) and worse, having sex with someone else – probably even in his house. Given that she is volunteering and has hobbies she must meet a few contextually alpha guys.

honeycomb
honeycomb
6 years ago

@IAS ..

Agreed ..

PLUS if he has had this talk / rant with her (which I bet he has) he has accelerated her doing more .. what a cuck .. very unattractive to a woman.

So yes .. I agree .. he isn’t getting anything but duty / I want something sex from her .. and she’s most definitely having alpha affairs.

IAS
IAS
6 years ago

@Honeycomb: he did, multiple times. “Pleaded” was the word he used. And even though he may seem about ready to be unplugged, I suspect is too ego-invested in “provider game” to be able to see Red (Pill). If he read up on it a bit I think with time he would start seeing more and more of what Red Pill “predicts” in his wife’s behavior.

But in any case there is no reliable way to reach him with the knowledge.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@Rugby

Is this National Bullshit Day in Australia? I hope it is.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Ya – I’m not saying “fuck all weak men”, nor am I schooling millennial or any men here on PUA – note that I don’t chime in at all for the most part. I’m at best a competent beginner who has reference sexual experiences. But I’m still not in position to any advice on pickup. There are a few awesome PUAs here who give great analyses of FRs and I consider it a privilege to get that kind of coaching and feedback. What I’m not down with is complaining to the guys trying to give real help here. Many a… Read more »

honeycomb
honeycomb
6 years ago

IAS said .. “But in any case there is no reliable way to reach him with the knowledge.”

@ IAS ..

Agreed. I don’t try to free minds .. and as we both agree .. he’s so close .. but he is so invested in the FI that he would out right reject anything but that ..

We could all day deconstructing his rant .. but .. he’s not worth saving. I just hope I can use his rant as a message to men who are receptive to the red pill.

YaReally
6 years ago

The trick to keeping guys in the FI is to show em the ropes young. Prepare for full cringe mode at 1:17 in this video I just ran across: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXFXyi3JTu0&t=1m17s This kid saved up all his money to just hand it to this completely average WNB chick, and recorded and edited a video of himself doing it, zooming in on the excitement on his face when she acknowledged his White Knightery existence. YouTube comment says she makes $200,000/yr but no idea how to verify that. She has a shitload of YouTube followers though and a Twitch gaming stream you pay… Read more »

Trent Lane
Trent Lane
6 years ago

@ YaReally „watch the blonde behind them at 28:03, grinding with a big jacked dude…but then watch at 28:08…no more jacked guy and she’s got her eyes locked on Max watching him walk off with a girl wondering who he is“ lol at the grinding girls, wtf. I don’t think I’d ever spotted this 8-0 „And what happens? She comes over to open him. And kisses his hand because she’s so attracted.“ This happened to me once in the era of my epic drunken beta game which never lead to much except confusion and blue balls. At a party I… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Reply to  Trent Lane


It’s not.

cheupez
6 years ago

I find the idea of strong beta frame funny. A man will fight (even to the death) for what he believes is right. But to imagine a guy whose frame is such that he wants to be cucked, and he is actually fighting for it? Heheheheeee…

Sad.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

WNB chick = Would Not Bang

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@rugby

Sorry for you, man. 🙁

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

I dreamed this girl was taking me to all these girl stores and I had had enough, so i told her “Fuck off, I am doing my own thing now.” So I went to this movie theater where they were playing Triumph of the Will and there was a nazi rally there with brown shirts with nazi flags and everything. We were partying like it was 1935. Ain’t no party like the Nazi party. anyway @scray @yareally lol tbh I think that’s the problem and where the disconnect is. You really DO need to go through his FRs and read… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

I dreamed this girl was taking me to all these girl stores and I had had enough, so i told her “Fuck off, I am doing my own thing now.” So I went to this movie theater where they were playing Triumph of the Will and there was a nazi rally there with brown shirts with nazi flags and everything. We were partying like it was 1935. Ain’t no party like the Nazi party. anyway @scray @yareally lol tbh I think that’s the problem and where the disconnect is. You really DO need to go through his FRs and read… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

Ohhhhhh. Now I know what this “In mod” torture in that yareally had to suffer through on CH lol.

I posted my comment once . . . nothing. WTF. Did it again . . .nothing.

And then it dawned on me.

I linked back to my earlier FR’s for scray to read — that must be what triggered it.

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

Agent P – “Drink a lot and blow shit up day?” The day the most powerful nation to ever exist in the history of civilization declared itself free of imperial Great Britain, and went on from there to wage a massive war of independence, only then to actually implement a republic with strong democracy and liberty?

Yeah, I’ll celebrate that. With all our shortcomings and warts, it’s still nice to be top of heap…

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Scribbler: “I need to figure out a new approach physically as there isn’t much hope with the injury I have.” Bodyweight squats. Ass to grass. Veeeery Slooowly. Pause for a couple seconds at bottom to eliminate the elastic spring effect. Only come up to three quarter squat hight. If you can squat double your bodyweight on a bar for reps, you may be surprised that only a half dozen on these leaves you lying on the floor sobbing at first – which is what you are aiming for. When you’ve worked up to a dozen, add weight that you can… Read more »

trackback

[…] Establishing and internalizing a strong sense of Frame is one of the most fundamental aspects necessary for a man’s personal success. I’m hesitant to use the word “success” here because continue […]

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@digireaper

You still around bro? Haven’t heard from you in a looooonnngg time

Agent P
Agent P
6 years ago

@Scrib, drink some for me man, we had our bender up here on Friday. We didn’t need to fight our way out from under the Brits, we just worked with them to kick the shit out of the French then asked nicely to have our own keys to the car so to speak. I drank plenty Friday, sadly this year I did not blow anything up. I think I need to reconcile that with my son some time soon, its been too long. For the record Scrib, I have relatives who are American. I love your country, not as much… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@PUA @scray @yareally @habd @culum

skimming yareally archives, but what are good resources for a list of things like:

C&F
Openers
DHV stories
Crowd Control
Cold Reads

walawala
walawala
6 years ago

@Hank Holiday Order Krauser’s DayGame Mastery. That is the definitive book that has all that stuff in one place with step by step detailed break downs of everything you’re looking for.

Jimmy B
Jimmy B
6 years ago

Here’s a turn up for the books…

theage.com.au/comment/feminists-treat-men-badly-and-its-bad-for-feminism-20160703-gpxbcp.html

The Awakened One
The Awakened One
6 years ago

@yareally “The problem with most guys is they think EVERY jacked dude is Josh and just let him have their girls. They don’t get how fucking rare this guy is lol Like look at the other big jacked dude in that set, he doesn’t even TRY to compete he just lets Josh come in and take his girls, he just accepts his role as the lower value guy.” The same thing is happening in the first approach Josh does. From 7:04 to 7:15. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8Oy9N8LDRo 7:04 Catches blonde girls eye in the back (He files in the back of his brain… Read more »

cheupez
6 years ago

By kfg:
“Bodyweight squats…If you can squat double your bodyweight on a bar for reps, you may be surprised that only a half dozen on these leaves you lying on the floor sobbing at first – which is what you are aiming for.”

As kfg says he is talking to Scrib. If you are gym naive do not even think about trying this. Start much, much lower and practice form first if you are average john doe from the street like me.

MPM
MPM
6 years ago

Women Do Most of the Housework I, as many to this community, found the Red Pill world after my divorce, and after many failed relationships partially caused by Blue Pill conditioning. What struck me about this post was your link to the article ‘women are far happier after divorce.’ In the article they troll out the old standard ‘women do most of the housework’ while never mentioning what men do, and subtly alluding to ‘dude just sits on the couch’ all day. In my case, and in the case of many men (statistics prove this) men work longer hours. Of… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
6 years ago

Jeez YaReally. That kid is what? 12-13? And he gave this random girl $225 and put her on his birthday cake. SHe’s distinctly average – not just in looks but not even remotely feminine. Like an average looking fat chick.

And his face – he’s just beaming. You can tell that that’s absolutely made his day/week/month.

She doesn’t even look that happy. I mean, lots of thank you and stuff but not much of an emotional reaction from her.

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
6 years ago

@MPM “What struck me about this post was your link to the article ‘women are far happier after divorce.’ In the article they troll out the old standard ‘women do most of the housework’ while never mentioning what men do, and subtly alluding to ‘dude just sits on the couch’ all day.” You had it easy. I got the same treatment but I built a farm from nothing while doing all the normal shit a hubby does. Built a 36x50ft barn alone (except for hiring a crew for the roof trusses), doors and windows, horse stalls, fencing, 300′ water line,… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@KFG – Thanks for the input. I also got out of the habit of exercising regularly and wow, does the energy level crash quickly at this age. I’m kind of shocked by it. Will recommit to the workout and start tonight!

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@MPM – Yah, it’s pretty interesting how easy it is to keep a house neat and clean. All the bitching and moaning by women is ridiculous. Back when I was killing it, I had a house cleaning person come in every 10 days. 2-3 hours of work and she would also do my laundry, lol. And my place was immaculate as a result. 6-9 hours of effort per month. Aside from throwing some dishes in the dishwasher and washing a pot or two when eating at home – which takes what, 15 mins? I think part of the reason I… Read more »

pinelero
pinelero
6 years ago

@disgruntled and MPM; “women are far happier after divorce.’ In the article they troll out the old standard ‘women do most of the housework’ while never mentioning what men do, and subtly alluding to ‘dude just sits on the couch’ all day.” This logic has never made sense to me. She did most of the housework while married, but after divorce, assuming living alone, now she is doing 100% of the housework and the guy stuff too. In terms of workload this is not an improvement. At my house my wife washes my clothes or if the backlog is too… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

On the Max video…. Putting aside how Max actually looks (for Yareally’s benefit – above average facially, short but height weight proportional, hipster beard and en vogue man bun, international accent [of the right kind]) – the part glossed over is his point #4. #4 Physicality = compliance. this here is something most of the recent RSD infields have not addressed directly, but it happens in every single set. Just about every one within 30 seconds of interaction – kino. This is a huge differentiator and it was good to see Max address it with some easy points. compliance and… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csnQWDPD9Ps This is a good series on kino and kino concepts by Mystery and Lovedrop. Play it at Youtube and you can do to the other 5 or 6 sections… Looking for the Matador clip where he does compliance testing and explains it. That is a good routine – hands on hands lowering, hands on hands “high five” position raising and lowering from the side and then at the top interlocking fingers… I’ve done the spin moves, seem too contrived for me though… basic boyfriend posture stuff works just as well. Picking up and hugging and spinning is solid too… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

Re: LTR failure, mentioned above. As I think about it more, perhaps what was happening with the LTRs going all bitchy was them insisting on Beta compliance? It always felt like they were trying to assert their dominance and control over the relationship and me. It felt like they wanted me to behave like an incompetent fool who needed their input to be a better person or something. They seemed to want me acknowledge their moral and other superiority, but the one thing I promised myself after my divorce is that I would never put up with that kind of… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@Scribblerg I’d like to clarify for the sake of LTR game: “Today’s FI script calls for women to assert themselves as the dominant figure in the family.” The script calls for women to do that when the man does not stay dominant and alpha. Women may be more masculine and dominant in general today, but they will certainly rush in to fill a void if the male abdicates his role. You said: “I didn’t know how to handle shit tests back then”. So what you did when tested for alpha and dominant was fail to demonstrate alpha. Women shit test… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Trent Lane “lol at the grinding girls, wtf. I don’t think I’d ever spotted this 8-0” lol the funny part is that this DOES happen to normal guys when they by sheer fluke happen to DHV…like the shy insecure chode or the newbie PUA who just HAPPENS to be friends with a bartender ’cause they have a class together in college or some shit and that bartender pours them a free shot and they chat for a sec…that guy will often GET girls noticing him and pAImAI’ing him (standing near him hoping he’ll open) or warming up to him in… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“placeholder for further thoughts…”

The boots are sized for a man to wear. The stroller is sized for a woman to push.

The world turned upside down.

YaReally
6 years ago

@all Followed links from that Lovedrop clip and man, there’s SO much fucking value in this clip starting at 11:50: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRUoj34lQPs&t=11m50s This is subcomm shit. All these tiny little dynamics make a difference infield. When Max takes that girl into the corner so he can lean back with her “gaming him”, he knows exactly what he’s doing and you can see Lovedrop doing different positions with these girls and SEE how different it looks when they’re locked in VS when he is and how much more intimidating it looks for an AMOG to enter that set in certain arrangements or… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

YA

“lololol I love it. inb4 “sure that infield shows a disabled disfigured midget getting girls but look at the length of his finger!!! TOTALLY PROPORTIONAL BRO!! Dude is basically a model, looks matter!!” Just keep sliding those goalposts around”

You kill me… (smooch emoji)

comment image

Max showing awesome subcomms…

Again… looks will not negate bad game. And top 1% of game is great… fully cosign… But be realistic when observing what your eyes are telling you.

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

@YaReally “Too much effort for me to bother trying to pull off that balancing act though…right now I prefer to just find new girls (there’s thousands of them out there) and they can come back to me when they get bored of the Provider guy they try dating.” I’m willing to chirp in on relationship game because it may come in handy some day even in short term relationships. It’s better to have LTR game and not need it than lack competency when you actually want it. So don’t be afraid to keep your ears open on the topic. The… Read more »

SJF
SJF
6 years ago

“Max showing awesome subcomms…”

You mean, like the boner?

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

I think it’s funny that Max calls his product “Natural” game because I’ve read half of his lines in the Tyler Digest. I enjoy his videos anyway of course, it’s just ironic.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Back to the Mystery pics… Yareally Unfortunately that’s also why someone like Tyler [ed. or Mystery] who’s game is solid, doesn’t understand stuff like Hypergamy (in depth) or solipsism or AWALT etc very well and got burned by a girl last year (she was approaching 30 and he didn’t do enough Provider stuff for her to stay with him and he was shocked she bailed because he thought just having high-value would be enough, but she needed some commitment balance and he was off working and sarging etc all the time not really giving her the Primary certainty she needed…also… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/gurus/img/mo/ff.jpg

addendum to above… perhaps the exception for the rule… the 100% all alpha all the time… but most of those guys are looney.

comment image

scray
scray
6 years ago

@hank “I have have been at A2 MANY times (french girl, serbian milf, like a billion white and black 5s lol) I just didn’t move it into A3 and just walked away instead. I need more girls to practice on to make the big step of pushing it further.” yes, but looking through the FRs it seems to be with marginal girls. not that there’s anything wrong with that, but if you want to see how your game is working for you, you have to see how it is working out on HOT women or the women currently who are… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Sentient lol here we go…did *I* want this thread to be full of shirtless pickup guys? Nope. But apparently you do, so here we go: Max getting in shape is a recent thing. But today I learned that if you are ever in shape at any point in your life, then everything you’re teaching about pickup doesn’t matter anymore and was lies. http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e15/11271928_831192103602514_1725002188_n.jpg Man look at these JACKED BICEPS as he spins this girl, holy shit how is there even room for text on the screen with his JACKED MUSCLES? http://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e15/11005190_504202379719964_972565502_n.jpg I mean, sure, you can’t SEE them or anything… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Sentient
Post in mod for you with a bunch of shirtless PUAs for you to admire, including Max. I’d go lift instead of posting but then everything I’ve ever taught would be discounted by you because if a guy gets in shape at any point in his life then everything outside of that was invalid and imaginary and didn’t happen.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@sentient

Again… looks will not negate bad game. And top 1% of game is great… fully cosign… But be realistic when observing what your eyes are telling you.

bro. looks are game. looks are just shorthand for several norms that you can demonstrate through action.

you need to make the e = mc^2 connection here.

theasdgamer
6 years ago

But be realistic when observing what your eyes are telling you.

…that jacked, tall, handsome (8+) 40 yo men are chasing 40 yo women while early 20s women are talking about me with their friends all night (per the man in the group) just because a bald, slightly pudgy, med. height 60+ yo man (7-8 looks per Mrs. Gamer who may be wearing hubby goggles) danced with them once.

lol, dude, just give it up

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

” I’d go lift instead of posting but then everything I’ve ever taught would be discounted by you because if a guy gets in shape at any point in his life then everything outside of that was invalid and imaginary and didn’t happen.” Glad to see the hyper-extrapolation machine is running in top gear… My comment – clearly – was not about what other PUA’s or even Max looked like in other days…it was – clearly – in relation to Max in the current video you posted. Whereby you say he was Max looks like a homeless man off the… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@Sentient “But be realistic when observing what your eyes are telling you” If you think Max walks into a room and girls all check him out and fall over themselves to open him because of how sexy he looks and it’s not because of the DHV stuff he’s doing, I don’t know what to tell you. I can explain why he gets opened because what I’m saying holds up under pressure-testing, but YOU have to explain why other guys with better looks DON’T get opened if looks matter. @Andy “I think it’s funny that Max calls his product “Natural” game… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

Last night was working with a buddy in retail and a woman customer came up and my buddy and I chatted with her a bit. He asked her if she had kids and her wall slammed down. Probably took that as him saying that she looked old or was so clueless as to have kids while she was young. Smart girl, but clueless about female reproduction issues. I immediately asked her where she was going to school and she brightened up and told me. She shut down when I said that I had “done” chemistry and physics, lol. Yeah, women… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

very easy to get swept up in “well I guess I did that once so it wont’ hurt to do it again plus she’s crying

Girls need drama from time to time. Making them cry or become angry is part of my relationship formula.

Drama, tingles, comfort, & validation are the basic relationship components.

YaReally
6 years ago

@scray “but if you want to see how your game is working for you, you have to see how it is working out on HOT women or the women currently who are beyond you.” lol this comes back to I’m sure he WOULD, if he COULD, but he doesn’t HAVE those around him. Like, what’s he supposed to do? It’s not like he’s walking through a mall full of 9s and he’s choosing to open the 5s. If he can at least practice getting these shitty chicks into A3-C1, when he gets to a city where he has 8s and… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@scray “also, the main thing is that ultimately you need to build a normal life that is constantly pumping your state. like from when you get up to when you get off of work, your state needs to be constantly being pumped. but that’s more long-term. that’s lifestyle shit.” This is the most important point. It’s just not real useful for hank right now. It’s also part of why I try to get guys to ENJOY to process of pickup and going out and sarging like Max in that infield, VS the Roosh/Krauser “it’s this horrible grind you HAVE to… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Ya – Interesting point about women being needed. I think what I was talking about was different though. @SJF makes the interesting point about demanding the alpha, but it’s hard to decode it all so cleanly. @Sentient – For the win on this one I think. It seems to me what was going on is demanding the Beta/Comfort and I was shitty at this. I turned off all supplication and comforting after my marriage exploded. While I still had a Madonna-Whore thing going, I was quite fucked in the head. It does explain the bizarre responses women would have. It’s… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@scribblerg
“looks are game”

…because of social conditioning that says looking that way is high-value. If our culture promoted flat-tops as attractive or girls with mangled teeth being cute like in Japan etc, those looks would be high-value instead. No disagreement there, but the reason is because of social conditioning.

“Please, let’s not do the “looks matter” routine guys, there is no there there.”

Don’t look at me, I didn’t post the shirtless Max pic as if that was some kind of rebuttal lol

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

“Don’t look at me, I didn’t post the shirtless Max pic as if that was some kind of rebuttal lol”

No you post how Max has “no manliness like Clint Eastwood”… Then hyper extrapolate around it to try and force your point…

And fetishism does not equal attractive… Mangled teeth… LOL

Klem
Klem
6 years ago

@yareally “There have been girls where I’m fully 100% Alpha Fucks Lover to them, everything I’ve ever done around them has been fully congruent to Alpha Fucks and they let me get away with ANYTHING, I can be kicking a girl out when they’re arriving and they’ll just laugh it off. But there’ve also been girls where I’ve been almost fully Alpha Fucks but then I let some Provider gayness slip in there and suddenly I’m not fully congruent and out come the shit-tests.” Hahaha man this is so so so true. Happens all the time to me as I’m… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
6 years ago

@Ya – Oh shit, i’m a few pages in on Tyler’s Digest, holy cow. This is a treasure trove and is giving me missing pieces already. Like having her feel qualified for me – I think I fuck this up a lot.

I’m supposed to be working but just don’t give a shit. last call of the day coming up, i’m gonna have to actually pay attention cuz i’m running it, lol.

Great reco!

YaReally
6 years ago

@Sentient “you post how Max has “no manliness like Clint Eastwood”” Is that an inaccurate statement? I was pointing out that he doesn’t have James Bond energy because a lot of guys think you have to be manly to be alpha/attractive to women but guys like Max and Russell Brand disprove that. “And fetishism does not equal attractive… Mangled teeth… LOL” Replace it with anything else. Fashion, hairstyles, beards, grey hair, etc Whatever society/marketing/etc conditions people to believe is attractive in that time period. @scribblerg “Basically, how come there’s this super hot chick that LOVES me and begging for my… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

whoops, Klem not Scribblerg, you both have red avatars lol

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Klem “The only difference is my attitude/behavior, which resulted in stellar subcomms with the first one and needy subcomms with the second.” Well not the only possible difference Klem. I know the meaning of words takes a backseat when we are in hyper extrapolation mode, however below may also be a factor: “Basically, how come there’s this super hot chick that LOVES me and begging for my time/attention, while this “cute but nothing special” girl just keeps snubbing me and acts like she isn’t really interested.” You see the difference is also between the two girls… IF you are high… Read more »

The Man
The Man
6 years ago

Women are attracted to confidence. Pretty much end of story. Looks, subcomms, amog, displays of mastery …. they are all tells for confidence. Then the ‘confidence’ is tested, …. if it is found wanting (like “fake”), well that is bad – worse than for another guy who displays less confidence, but of the genuine type. On the other hand you got guys, like Sentient has pointed out, that have huge genuine, but delusionary confidence – and that may very well be initially very charismatic – but it is not genuine charisma – cause most people with otherwise properly functioning brains… Read more »

Klem
Klem
6 years ago

@Sentient “You see the difference is also between the two girls… IF you are high value and IF you at least look high value, “cute but not special” girls will often DQ THEMSELVES by acting like this… ego preservation, because they don’t feel they can get you or feel like you are just going to P and D them. Common among 6’s… 7’s can go either way I find. Something else to consider. All infield tested and observed BTW…” Good observation, but that’s why I said one was hot the other one cute, meaning there were not a biiiig difference… Read more »

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