Establishing and internalizing a strong sense of Frame is one of the most fundamental aspects necessary for a man’s personal success. I’m hesitant to use the word “success” here because it subjectively means so much to men on an individual basis. “Success” is a relative term, but I intentionally began the Iron Rules of Tomassi with Frame because an understanding of this principle applies to so many different arenas in a man’s life.
It’s far too easy to conflate Frame (and the hoped-for success that can come about from it) with a power-of-positive-thinking motivational vibe. Developing, maintaining and internalizing a personal Frame isn’t derived from motivational thinking. That’s not to say it doesn’t help, but Frame can align either on realizable realities informed by Red Pill awareness or it can be founded on deeply ingrained investments in Blue Pill conditioning.
For some men, a Blue Pill mindset, and the conditioning principles that formed it, is the foundation of what they convince themselves is a very strong, very ‘correct’, establishment of Frame. It quite literally is the reality into which they expect a woman will want to be a part of and will want to readily cooperate within. The problem, of course, is that the Frame they’ve developed is informed by Old Rules/Blue Pill goals that mischaracterize the truer natures of women and what their motivations are.
This insistence of women adapting to a Blue Pill Frame is the root of many a Beta man’s downfall when a woman has finally run out of Alpha Fucks options during her Party Years and she’s “turned over a new leaf” in the necessitousness of her Epiphany Phase. Women aging out of the sexual marketplace are only too happy to appear to be a Beta man’s Blue Pill ship that’s finally come in.
Behold, Camelot
I have heard many times, from well-intended Blue Pill men, some variation of the Just Be Yourself self-righteous expectation that women should want to enter into his Frame. “If a woman can’t accept me for who I am, she’s not the right (quality) woman for me” is the standard refrain. The Frame is strong, the expectation is (seemingly) strong, but the Blue Pill foundation it’s built upon is flawed because it is influenced and conditioned by the Feminine Imperative that always expects him to focus outwardly instead of making himself his own mental point of origin.
If they were honest, these are the guys who will Beta Hamster their Blue Pill ideal of the ‘right’ girl being any one who acknowledges his Blue Pill Frame.
There’s usually some self-evincing rationale that sounds similar when a Blue Pill guy has his Frame challenged by a woman unwilling to play along with his “world”. Whether he comes to this by rejection or simply observing women’s solipsism and duplicity, the reasoning is never about the validity of what his Frame is based on, but rather the disqualification of a woman who contradicts his ego-investments in it (i.e. they become “low quality women” to him).
However, many a White Knight will have what, for all purposes, is a very strong personal Frame. This dedication to a Blue Pill conditioned mindset is central to their ego-investments and it’s a big reason why it’s so difficult to unplug a man from it apart from some trauma that shakes his investing his personality in it. And even then, it’s far easier to disqualify the women who want nothing to do with his Frame than it is to get him to reconsider his fundamental, Blue Pill, old books belief-set.
As I was picking apart the conditions that lead to a man like Steve from last week’s post to becoming what he is, I found it’s important to highlight the determination with which most men will defend their Blue Pill investments and defend the investments of other Blue Pill men with whom it aligns with.
From Enter White Knight:
Every random chump within earshot of your conversation about Game, about your ‘changed’ way of seeing inter-gender relations, about your most objective critical observations of how women ‘are’, etc. – understand, that chump waits everyday for an opportunity to “correct” you in as public a way as he’s able to muster. That AFC who’s been fed on a steady diet of noble intent, with ambitions of endearing a woman’s intimacy through his unique form of chivalry; that guy, he’s aching for an opportunity to prove his quality by publicly redressing a “villain” like you for your chauvinism. Even under the conditions of relative anonymity (like the internet), he’ll still cling to that want of proving his uniqueness just on the off chance that a woman might read his rebuff and be fatefully attracted to him.
The more invested a Blue Pill man is in his Frame, the more ardent a White Knight he’s likely to be. The problem in all of this is that his dedication to that Frame, and the expectation that ‘quality women’ will rationally and deductively appreciate it, is in error. Women fundamentally lack the ability to fully realize, much less appreciate the sacrifices a man makes to facilitate their reality. Even the most enlightened, appreciative woman you know still operates in a feminne-centric reality.
It’s easy to spot (and get annoyed with) a White Knight when he comes to the aid of M’Lady on an internet forum, but the defender-of-the-faith behavior also extends to other men, like himself, given to the same Blue Pill Frame and ideals. From a Red Pill perspective we know this is virtue signaling, but it’s also indicative of reaffirming a White Knight’s dedication to a Frame and belief-set that requires a constant reassurance in the face of so much observable contradiction.
Blue Pill Frame / Red Pill Awareness
In the manosphere, there’s a tendency to characterize the Blue Pill mindset with non-assertive “people pleaser” men conditioned from an early age to defer to women and sublimate themselves to the Feminine Imperative. For the most part, that generalization fits, but I think it’s important to understand that it’s entirely possible for otherwise very Alpha men to invest themselves in Blue Pill paradigms and then build Frames up around them.
While I was writing this, reader Softek had a very good take on how Frame can be applicable from both an Alpha and a Beta perspective:
Steve’s relationship is PERFECT.
It is in EXACT ALIGNMENT with his Frame.
His Frame, which he voluntarily maintains, is that of a Beta male. Weak, submissive, and priming him perfectly to be cuckolded.
Similarly, my relationship with my GF is perfect.
It’s in exact alignment with my Frame.
This is how it always works. It’s the only way it CAN work. Your Frame is your reality, period, end of story. I’m sticking to this idea of women having no Frame, because I think it can help men to realize that the man’s Frame – as far as the man is concerned – is the only thing that matters.
I’m going to stop here because this is one of his few assertions I don’t entirely agree with. Women’s innate sense of Frame is informed by their fundamentally solipsistic nature. How that solipsism is expressed can take different forms, but in all instances it places the experience of the woman as being central to her own importance.
The easy example is the Frame grab I outlined in The Talk where a woman (consciously or otherwise) seeks to assert her experience as being the primary Frame or when a man abdicates his Frame to satisfy a woman’s need for long-term security. The other side of this is that even when women are considered ‘powerless’, and they are acted upon (hypoagency), their solipsistic experience is still central to the nature of any Frame because that presumption of powerlessness informs her solipsism and she builds her Frame around it.
Women most definitely have a Frame; it is informed by solipsism and its state is determined by what her need for optimizing Hypergamy demands at any phase of her maturity and how well she is likely to consolidate on it. I understand what Softek is getting at here, but just observe Beta men who are trapped in submissive roles to their dominant wives and you’ll see how he’s acted upon within her Frame.
If your Frame is what you really want it to be, you’re all set. You will simply not put up with BS, so it won’t be necessary to calculate what kind of BS or shit tests are being thrown at you, because you’ll automatically pass them without even being conscious of them.
At a deeper level, there is no your reality vs. her reality, or who has more power in the relationship.
It all goes back to your relationship with yourself. Your Frame. You decide what you accept in your life, and what you don’t accept.
Everyone has been telling me to get out of my relationship. Why? Their Frame is different. Maybe they have more self-respect. Maybe they have more confidence. But ultimately, their Frame is different.
They would not put up with half the BS I’ve put up with. They would’ve been gone a long, long time ago and onto greener pastures.
I’m getting what I deserve. I’m getting the relationship that is PERFECT for me, which means it’s perfectly aligned with my [current, malleable, changeable] Frame.
Frame isn’t set in stone. It’s ours to control, and ours alone, because it belongs to us each individually.
If I want a different relationship, I need to change my Frame. What do I want? What am I willing to accept? What am I not willing to accept?
This is a very important point, to understand that Steve’s relationship is PERFECT….for him. A complete match with his Frame.
If you dig into WHY he’s in this relationship, it’s for that reason and that reason alone: it resonates with his Frame. It resonates with the perception he has of himself, and the rules he’s laid out for himself in his life.
He is doing exactly what an Alpha does: living 100% by his Frame.
It’s just that his Frame is weak and submissive instead of strong and self-serving.
It’s funny when you look at things like this. When you realize you’re already “Alpha” in the sense that you know how to live 100% in your Frame….what’s stopping you from changing your Frame?
You already know what it’s like to hold Frame. Not everyone can stay in an abusive, sexless relationship. It takes a pretty extreme Beta to put up with all that. I am a fucking Beta God. I will put up with more abuse than any man on this planet. I’m the most abject Beta in the world.
(I’m being deliberately hyperbolic here, bear with me)
The most abject Beta is simply the other side of the Apex Alpha coin.
Both stubbornly hold to their Frame. The Beta holds to his Frame to his inevitable cuckolding and destruction; the Alpha holds to his Frame to his self-gratification regardless of who tries to shame him or bring him down.
We need to stop thinking “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good” and realize that Frame is subjective.
I may not agree with some of this, and considering Softek’s dependence on maintaining his relationship it’s easy to see why he feels this way, however, he does touch upon some foundational aspects of Frame. Yes, women get the men they deserve, or in this case, women enter into relations with the men who align with what they’ve created.
As I mention in Frame, yours should be a world women will want to enter or you will be entering her Frame. That said beware the motives of the woman who would eagerly embrace a Beta’s Frame. Those motives are rooted in necessity and not genuine desire. Just ask Saira Khan.
Understanding that a solid sense of Frame – literally creating a reality in which you live and expect others to interact within – is central to success is not a difficult concept to grasp for most men. Whether or not they feel an ownership of that Frame, or a motive to employ it, is what defines men’s understanding of it. And this discomfort men have in insisting upon a solid, active, Alpha Frame is precisely what the Feminine Imperative has sought to condition into men for going on five generations now.
Recently I’ve been commenting on yet another article of feminist triumphalism, glorying in the statistics that women are far happier after a divorce. This is standard feminist boilerplate, but the bloody handed cruelty of articles like this always ignore that the “men” they denigrate are the direct results of a generational conditioning that leads men to swallow Blue Pill idealism and abdicate Frame in the name of a nebulous egalitarian equalism.
As 39% more men put a gun in their mouths after a divorce, women will bemoan a generation of men the Feminine Imperative created to abdicate their Frame. So yes, when it comes to men becoming despondent and suicidal after having their Blue Pill idealistic ego-investments destroyed by the same imperative that invested it in them, yes, “Beta Bad” and “Alpha Good”.
@The Man – The only relevant part of your post on this subject: “For instance, wrt pua (which I don’t know much about”. You don’t realize it but you telegraph your vast ignorance and naivete about PUA and Game and The Red Pill every time you speak. That’s fine, but one is left wondering why you keep offering your weak bromides and casuistry as some kind of alternative POV men here might want to take up? I mostly scroll by after 1-2 sentences, as I’m sure most men here do. You see, they are here to learn about TRP, not… Read more »
Also, about the “garbage man” part, I’ve never been laid as much as when I was unemployed lol. Going on dates during the day with students, staying up till 5am on a Tuesday etc. And I’ve never really lied to girls either, always told them that I had no money during that time and that I did not work. Got basically 2 types of reactions : a bit disgusted when I said it like it is something that bums me out, like it’s a “serious event in my life”, or they don’t care when I say it like I find… Read more »
Look at that broken english lol
Yareally would be so bored talking ESL-like with me hehehe
@sentient Just about every one within 30 seconds of interaction – kino. These are the things young (young?) Hank is missing from his game, is scared about, and IMO will benefit the most from adding to what he is doing. Ehh, not so much. Not in the day venues I go to now, and not without having a lot of girls to practice on. When I get to a place where I can go to nighclubs — absolutely. In fact, kino will be my MAIN focus in such an environment. But right now it isn’t very feasible — especially considering… Read more »
The question is: how do we convince that kid donating his savings to that ugly Twitch chick to understand he needs to make her cry or feel bad once in a while to stay attracted to him?
Book titled: “How to keep a girl staying in love with you”
Scrib – “You see, they are here to learn about TRP, not to hear hacks spout off about it. ”
I am in the business of learning too. So Scrib, in that vein – in a nutshell – how would you define the redpill?
Hmmm
Why men might underestimate women’s sex drive:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/01/health/men-women-sex-drive/?iid=ob_homepage_deskrecommended_pool
“Our findings suggest that under-perception might keep men motivated to entice their partner’s interest. . .”
“. . .But the goal in relationships is to maintain the relationship.”
So basically train the guy to expect less sex, so the chick can extract resources from him while still getting her AF on the side. Lol
@Hank
To me it reads more like girls hide their horniness because they don’t wanna look like sluts to guys, which in my opinion is as serious an issue as girls trying to extract resources from guys lol
@The Man – I don’t care what “The Red Pill” means, I care about the praxeological analysis of human intersexual dynamics on offer here. I care that such an analysis suggest deep truths about our society and human nature that I used to be delusional about. I care that when I use the information presented here, I get much more of what I want out of life and feel much less conflicted and confused by what’s happening around me. Most of all? I love feeling entitled to hot pussy without any reservation or embarrassment. How about you? What is it… Read more »
The question is: how do we convince that kid donating his savings to that ugly Twitch chick to understand he needs to make her cry or feel bad once in a while to stay attracted to him? I think, really, they have to get seriously burned by a chick or to see how women actually are — like that guy from saving the best that got nada from his wife yet she was in a porno getting railed my multiple dudes. You gotta have your whole view of the world torn away to change anything. Otherwise, even if things are… Read more »
@klem
well this is for chicks in relationships.
Girls have more “I don’t want to look like a slut” in public or with guys they just met.
Scrib: “That’s fine, but one is left wondering why you keep offering your weak bromides and casuistry as some kind of alternative POV men here might want to take up? ” No Scrib …. what I have offered is by way of a point of departure from some of the stuff presented here that doesn’t make any sense. All I ever get in response is, “well, read you idiot”, ….. look I’m not saying back “I read ….so comprehend you idiot” …… instead I point out where something doesn’t make sense (sometimes by offering a more reasonable alternative) …… but… Read more »
@The Man: “So ……. what brings the genuine but non-delusionary confidence? For men – winning.”
FIFY
@klem
“Once two adults are in an established relationship, however, men tend to underestimate their partner’s sexual interest. . .”
I was making the observation that science is confirming RP. That girls train (and society/FI) providers that they have to WORK for and EARN sex in a realtionship. That way girls can withdraw sex and force guys to bribe them with resourced to keep the IV drip of sex going.
Scrib:
“I care that when I use the information presented here, I get much more of what I want out of life and feel much less conflicted and confused by what’s happening around me. Most of all? I love feeling entitled to hot pussy without any reservation or embarrassment.”
OK – I see the value here wrt what you outlined in the first sentence. But your last two sentences – that is the primary wrt the ordering of your life priorities?
Wild Man, your “points of departure” always end in your fortune cookie attempts to force fit Red Pill truths into the ego-investments your identity needs to exist.
You still hope your Blue Pill goals can be solved by Red Pill truths. It’s time to let go of that new age idealism, you’re not getting any younger,…but this is nothing people haven’t been telling you for over a year here now.
@The Man “what is the pua consensus for the following?: 1) women flaunt/men seek/ women choose 2) women flaunt/men select and then seek by way of controlling the woman’s choice/women choose 3) men display/ women choose (like F. Roger Devlin thinks)” …I can’t imagine a scenario where it’s anything but number 3. I don’t know if I really understand what your question is though. The second you enter a girl’s vision/knowledge, her hindbrain is taking notes on all the subcomms you’re displaying (and the ones you’re not displaying) and then tries to get your attention (pAImAI, AIs, etc). She may… Read more »
kfg – “So ……. what brings the genuine but non-delusionary confidence? For men – winning.”
OK – I like the succinct, but doesn’t that beg the question “how to win?”
@The Man – Get this, for your own sake. You are an unsufferable, picayune time waster, focused on the wrong things constantly. Engaging with you on this subject matter would be like asking a 9yo about particle physics – after having completed an undergrad in physics. Just note how you define casuistry incompletely. You leave off the first few words, in a pathetic, self-serving attempt to gin up some debate with me, a debate I have no interest in because you haven’t demonstrated a scintilla of value. Casuistry must also “seem or sound clever” but has faulty reasoning. You see… Read more »
@Rollo – Oh fuck, is “The Man” just Wild Man redux? I should have known. Lol, wow, talk about being ego-invested. What a fucking hump, I’m done now. Moving on.
@yareally @scribb whooooaaa Tyler digest shit it nice. Just opened it to roleplay in a mall — where you try on same jacket together, look at each other in mirror, then say “we should steal this” and either jokingly talk about it, or if no, grab her shit to get her to go after you, then say “I know a better way to make cash. I need a rich girl.” and then qualify her. nicenicenice. Lots of stuff in here I can use directly or modified. Cuz like, I have already sort of done some of that stuff — like… Read more »
YaReally – thanks for getting back. I see what you are saying, yet the woman is in said venue (and has taken the time to look nice), which is a contextual subtextual flaunt in of itself – yes? In fact for many many women – I get the impression that the covert flaunt is their default attitude towards the outer world, (albiet perhaps only subliminally or unconsciously), especially younger women. But otherwise, yes – she isn’t looking for just any guy or any old attention, but a particular kind of guy or a particular kind of attention – true. And… Read more »
@Hank – But what’s really genius in the Tyler Digest is not the routines but him putting them in perspective. He talks about why cocky and funny is important. He talks about why rapport and comfort is important. He breaks it all down so simply, and you also get a sense of his development since then. I would post a lot of it here but it’s too long. Reading the first 30 pages has changed my gaming utterly already. Example: I’m great at opening, negging and spiking but I move into comfort/rapport building too easily. I don’t do enough DHVing… Read more »
” But legitimate cold approach is like, the girl literally doesn’t know you exist until you open her and start displaying value (the fact that you even open her is ITSELF a slight DHV because most guys won’t).”
Ooooohhhh Yeeeaaahhhh Baaabbbyyyy!!!!!
+100
@The Man: ” . . . but doesn’t that beg the question . . .”
No, it raises it. Begging the question is a self-referential argument, using the premise/source as proof of the premise/ source.
“how to win?”
Succeed.
“But doesn’t that . . .,” I hear you cry.
Yes, it does. And the answer is – fail. Probably a lot. Thoughtfully.
“…..is “The Man” just Wild Man redux?” Yes. “So Scrib, in that vein – in a nutshell – how would you define the redpill?” Scrib doesn’t have to define it. He’s a smart guy and knows it when he sees it. Red Pill reddit defines it simply (for their group): “The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men.” So imagine that the Rational Male and its readers and commenters are a tribe. And they are working on a common goal. If you want to comment to that tribe as an outsider,… Read more »
@The Man “yet the woman is in said venue (and has taken the time to look nice), which is a contextual subtextual flaunt in of itself – yes?” Only if you ignore the part where I said specifically “Plenty of girls go out with zero intention of hooking up (the sober girl who doesn’t like bars and got dragged along for a birthday, the random not done-up girl you catch in the middle of running errands during daygame, etc) or flaunting or having no intention/expectation of meeting a high-value guy, and when you DHV it triggers attraction in her.” which… Read more »
@ Teh Man ” OK – I like the succinct, but doesn’t that beg the question “how to win?”” How to Win. by Blaximus step 1. Give thought to something you’d like to do/accomplish. step 2. Research ( if necessary ) and think about how to do this thing. Seek advice where applicable. step 3. Get off ass and try. Ta-Daaa!!! You have already ” won ” in some measure. Repeat the above for more, delicious winning goodness. How to Lose. by Blaximus ( 2nd edition ) step 1. Find reasons why you can’t do a thing. step 2. Repeat… Read more »
“Don Pardo, tell him what he’s won!!!!”
Protip: Whenever it’s offered, take what’s inside Carol Merrill’s box.
And I just had to share this…
//platform.instagram.com/en_US/embeds.js
@hank So thats more to scray as well — he’s trying to prefect every nuance and its like. . .I get that, but I am still just trying to get to the point of number closing lol i’m not getting into EVERY nuance AINEC. it may seem overwhelming right now and that’s not a BAD thing. it’s just more shit to start adding to your game and being aware of so that you can start really leveling up. But I get more or less the same reaction from all girls. I’ve actually noticed a diff in your FR’s between the… Read more »
@ kfg
” Protip: Whenever it’s offered, take what’s inside Carol Merrill’s box.”
Oh my… thank you for the belly laugh. Well timed sir ( not drinking coffee this time ).
@The man
Blue idealist
The car drives
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=faCvJq-wH6g
Red pill idealist
It’s killing people…
Women display, men appraise, men approach, men display, women appraise
Both sexes display, both sexes appraise, both sexes choose.
” But legitimate cold approach is like, the girl literally doesn’t know you exist until you open her and start displaying value (the fact that you even open her is ITSELF a slight DHV because most guys won’t). Ok, so how do you really know if you’ve got an actual cold approach? I mean, based on so much of what YaReally writes, I wonder if a lot of my cold approaches are really warm approaches. Even in bars new to me, I start chatting up bouncers, bartenders, waitresses, other men, etc., so I start building value before I even approach… Read more »
Protip: Whenever it’s offered, take what’s inside Carol Merrill’s box
It was empty, except for my probe.
70,000 years ago: The Cognitive Revolution. Emergence of fictive language. Beginning of history. This is when humans started making shit up to further their cause. This process is just becoming more acute with the blue pill Matrix, but it started then. LOL The Man and The Worship of Man and the the buy-in to natural law religions. TL;DR The (wild) Man is merely trying to evangelize his humanist natural law religion. I would advise everyone else to scroll by this comment post. Except @The Man. Warning: Godwin’s law comes into play here. So I’m halfway through Harari’s “Sapiens”. And we… Read more »
“If a religion is a system of human norms and values that is founded on belief in a superhuman order, then Soviet Communism . . . ”
. . . worshipped a god whose name was History, promulgating a divine plan named Progress, against the machinations of The Evil One named Capitalism*, in order that true believers, in some distant and unspecified time, could enter paradise, named Communism.
*That is the old world, Orthodox view. The new world Protestant view is that The Evil One is named Patriarchy and Capitalism is the name of his evil plan.
So why study red pill theory and Game? Unlike physics or economics, this study is not a means for making accurate predictions or to guarantee sexual strategy. We study red pill and game not to know how our actions will play out exactly, but to widen our horizons, to understand that our present situation is neither natural nor inevitable, and that we consequently have many more possibilities before us than we imagine.
@SJF,
https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/28/humanism-behaviorism-and-the-amorality-of-game/
Yes vagina Virginia, there is the problem of those who “. . . worshipped a god whose name was History”. I promise this pertains to red pill awareness theory and game practice (refer to/see last comment): The Hindsight Fallacy Every point in history is a crossroads. A single travelled road leads from the past to the present, but myriad paths fork off into the future. Some of those paths are wider, smoother and better marked, and are thus more likely to be taken, but sometimes history – or the people who make history – takes unexpected turns. At the beginning… Read more »
And hence the value of field reports.
“Why did he opt for Jesus?”
Original sin. He allowed himself to be persuaded by his wife.
@theasdgamer “Ok, so how do you really know if you’ve got an actual cold approach?” There are tons of situations where it’s clearly a cold approach. Like a girl walking into the room yapping with her friends while you’re out of her line of vision and you go tap her on the shoulder from behind is a cold approach. Basically if you aren’t on her radar at all when you approach, that’s a cold approach. Like Krauser’s stuff is primarily all pure legit cold approach (and props to him for that). “I mean, based on so much of what YaReally… Read more »
@YaReally
Average AFC guys also try to go straight for Comfort. “So do you come here often? Cool, do you live around here? Cool, what do you do for a living?” etc
So if a girl asks these kinds of questions, that’s a signal that she wants comfort, right? I get them a lot while dancing with girls. I haven’t seen them as a comfort request.
@ SJF
Lol…
@SJF – “They increasingly argue that human behaviour is determined by hormones, genes and synapses, rather than by free will.” This is incorrect. No modern scientist would claim these drivers are deterministic, in the linear sense with which we think about such things. Yes, free will is much less clearly “free” than most people realize, but then again, people still make choices and have choices. Sam Harris paints a vivid picture of our lack of free will in his famous YouTube story, but that is not the entire story. The field of cognition holds great promise wrt these considerations. There… Read more »
@yareally @scray @blax @habd @PUS Went to mall. Opened guy on the way in. Had two other girls I saw inside. One was at clothes, another on the railing. Had to go to the bathroom bad, but next time I am going to open them. I can do a quick open real quick just to get the momentum going. But these were two good opportunities that I missed. Went to an asian store just to talk with person inside, but was a 6 or 7 asian inside. I was SUPER tired and BORED, so this went poorly lol YOU NEVER… Read more »
eehhh. Very good rapport with black girl who just passed me, but din’t push it to sexual. “Hey, who can you talk to on that headset you’ve got.” “You can chat to all the people that have them. Like this:” and she mumbled in her headset. “So that’s when you chat about all the terrible customers.” “yeah.” “What’s the worst customer you’ve had?” and she told me a story. When she finished, some one chatted with her on headset. She told person on other end: “Oh nothing. I was just showing how headsets work” “And that’s when you are like… Read more »
“One of the big punchlines? An individual cannot hope to completely escape his biases ever. But in groups, we manage to be “less wrong” by contention and argument and falsification and collaboration. It turns out, once again, that group selection and human’s proclivity to form groups is crucial to our advancement of knowledge and reason. Were we to better understand the advantages of human social groups, we could solve many problems in the world by fostering intergroup cooperation versus the current focus on destroying certain groups.” The reason as postulated by Hariri that in large groups that collectives of Sapiens… Read more »
Oops.
“I have less faith in collectives than I have in a
top downbottoms up approach.”Thus, the bottoms up approach that works in the military as groups of 2, 5, 15, 75 and less than 100 that the war correspondent Junger, who also described pre-civilized tribes (like Amer-Indians who lived this life) really does have egalitarian and in-group altruism in play at all times. Yeah about 50 people is the upper limit. david heinemeier hansson — guy who made ruby on rails programming language and works for 37 signals, talks about that a bunch in regards to biz. Business work when you know everyone. You aren’t necessarily good friends with them, but you are AWARE… Read more »
@ ScribblerG On re-reading your comment, I hope you get that I was indicting humanism (as theology) as being fictive and that determinism is a fools game. I also was indicting collective though and advancement of the collective thoughts of humans (like the current social conventions, feminism, white knighting and so forth) also. When you see what mother nature is doing by sitting in a tree-stand or farm the land (and observe invasive species and human thoughts about that) life becomes more clear. One man’s goal become more clear. And your stated goals for your life, Scribbler become even more… Read more »
“When you get much larger than that it just all goes to shit. Its too easy for nepotism and politics to take over. A few people can steal from the others. In smaller groups, though, EVERY one has to pitch in or the whole group fails. And since everyone knows everyone, its harder for your conscious to allow you to betray people you know (as opposed to faceless subordinates) and the subordinates are less likely to LET you get away with it ..” Precisely, that is the thesis of Sebastian Jungers book Tribe. https://www.amazon.com/Tribe-Homecoming-Belonging-Sebastian-Junger/dp/1455566381?ie=UTF8&ref_=asap_bc @KFG paging kfg….. What was your… Read more »
@scray right now you’re not pushing at all and that’s like 99% of the entire critique…. …like you can’t ‘push to A3’ if you aren’t even pushing. And this is the disconnect. I have to get warmed up and in a flow to get past mental blocks, tiredness, boredom, etc to push that far. I would be pushing to A3 ALL the time if I had girls . . . it just might take me 20 girls to get to that point. When I HAVE girls I will generally open. Like when i first did the “do i look like… Read more »
@SJF
Precisely, that is the thesis of Sebastian Jungers book Tribe.
will look into that.
ReWork has is partially written by David. You can also look up some of his interviews and such on youtube where he talks about similar things.
hmmm. I need more things to open on. The hair opener I really like because it is something that is congruent (she DOES have hair roughly similar to mine), I think its funny (because its not THAT similar and the whole “we look like bro and sis” is patently ridiculous when I’m pasty white and she’s black as shit) and girls usually light up about it, because they care about their hair and they think its funny too. usually, instant social hook. So I feel I need to find some more things to comment on like that. That way I… Read more »
Yes Rollo. Red pill and Game denial will get an man nowhere. I subscribe to base natures. And to have an uber liberal guy like Sebastian Junger spell tribal essence out in a coherent fashion to sway the conservative me is like the last couple month’s back and forth with YaReally and Scray has swayed the monogamous me to have better married man monogamous game (I’m not swayed to be non-monogamous, I’m swayed to have better more congruent game). And once again Hariri, a homosexual (that doesn’t project that at all–and his sexual orientation matters not at all–he just puts… Read more »
@SJF: “paging kfg…..
What was your description of Jack Donovans political philosophy that you posted in a couple words recently.”
I trigger warned someone who had the whiff of conservative Christian about him that Donovan was a homosexual neo-pagan. I would append barbarian to that, and note that I used the word homosexual because I didn’t think that androphilic would be understood.
SJF – you said: “On re-reading your comment, I hope you get that I was indicting humanism (as theology) as being fictive and that determinism is a fools game. I also was indicting collective though and advancement of the collective thoughts of humans (like the current social conventions, feminism, white knighting and so forth) also. ” I’ve come back now and read everything you wrote and quoted this evening but I still am not sure what your position is (or what Harari’s is either), ….. on determinism. In the bolded paragraph of your Harari quote, Harari seems to be advocating… Read more »
This is for one of the posters here, which should be more careful about putting out personal info on the web BTW (in fact possibly contact Rollo to delete some of the posts).
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4q49zz/another_poor_bastard_finds_out_his_wife_was_a/
Re-read Rollo’s Saving the Best…
@The Man Hariri is merely observing how sapiens have behaved over the millennia. Rollo is merely observing behavior. From his essay “Love” Rollo is telling you @The Man that: From a Red Pill perspective I’d say the first and most important thing for a man to grasp is coming to terms with realistic expectations with women based in Red Pill awareness. In a Blue Pill paradigm men are conditioned to believe that Blue Pill goals are both attainable and worthwhile in the effort needed to achieve them. Deferring to feminine primacy, deffering to feminine correctness and essentially enabling and facilitating… Read more »
One of the big punchlines? An individual cannot hope to completely escape his biases ever. But in groups, we manage to be “less wrong” by contention and argument and falsification and collaboration. Contention and argument and collaboration are good. Agree. We can see this in useful things like engineering. Falsification? BZZZZZT! Philosophy disposed of Popper long ago. Theories can ALWAYS be amended by epicycles. Let’s look at some history. Aristarchus of Samos proposed that the earth revolved around the sun back in the 3rd century BC. However, the group of people we call “astronomers” preferred the theory that the sun… Read more »
All stories where I guy just happens to find a boatload of sex videos with wife and random guys is fake. Take this comment: How many women do you know who: -Are married, -Own gopro cameras, -Know how to use them, -Make their own sex videos, and -Upload and save the videos to their laptop without a password Never happened. 99% of women have no idea where the pictures on their phone go after they take them. The idea that a vapid slut who is picking up bar-randos for drunk sex is a savvy self-pornographer is preposterous. That the TheRedPill… Read more »
@Redlight’s I’m quoting from Saving the Best “There’s a lot going on in this situation, but I think the first thing that should be addressed here is that, personally, I think these sorts of past life revelations are a lot more common than most men are comfortable in admitting. I wish I could say this was the first time I’ve ever encountered a story like his — it’s actually the 7th time, and four of those were personal accounts from men I’ve counseled.” Rollo is saying that in at least four cases a guy admitted to him, in person, something… Read more »
@IAS
Certainly there are cargoships of women who rode the cock carousel and then beta bucked. However the scarecrows to be most effective always need videos (post about diaries or new-found social media accounts are far less effective, since men are visual). Women don’t need to keep a visual record, they keep an emotional record.
@YaReally @Scray @HABD
The old school Lovedrop & Mystery breakdowns are value packed gems. Got me thinking about Julien’s views on group theory – seems he advocates going straight for the girl first, while yes acknowledging the friends. Love to hear your thoughts on how he seems to diverge from MM group theory.
@hank holiday Chick who sneered at coffee wasn’t in A2 ’cause she isn’t complying…a girl in A2 wouldn’t care about what the offer was for, she’d just be happy to be hanging out with a guy she’s attracted to. So there’s a situation where I would calibrate, interpreting that as “okay she’s non-compliant right now, so I need to DHV more and get A2”, and backing OFF my offer completely and just going into more A1 DHV stuff (routines, stories, cold reads, chick crack, push/pull, whatever), until I’m getting enough A2 to pitch for the meet again. Tyler summarizes it… Read more »
Amorality and game
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-XHPvCPIK0
Just spoke with someone today I was heavy influenced by in amoral way for the first time.
Funny thing is he sounds just like my cousin but I never meant him.
@The Man “as you know I was implying a universal generalization” Can’t make a universal generalization on it. It’s like saying the universal generalization for eating is that you eat when you’re hungry, but that’s not really the case. Lots of people eat when they aren’t hungry for various reasons. It’s not a binary “the only reason anyone eats is because they are hungry” “So YaReally ….. you are implying a woman never ever flaunts?” If she has reason to believe that she may meet a high-value man, she may flaunt, but that flaunting is specifically for those potentially high-value… Read more »
@hank holiday That vid cuts away after he says “we’re too similar” but just the timing of when he does it and his tonality with it (a teasing push/pull type vibe) should give you some ideas. Also this might help you construct your own personal routines: http://www.seductionbase.com/seduction/cat/seductionfaq/Beginner/272.html Understand that it’s the structure that makes them work, not what the routine is actually about. I can talk about the empty glass on the desk beside me and turn it into an entertaining story said with passion, but that comes from learning to understand the structure of how to hook. Like say… Read more »
@redlight, from personal experience in my peer counseling days, I assure you women keep video and photos of their sexual acts. You probably wont just take my word for it, and that’s OK, but there are literally hundreds of similar cases in the DeadBedrooms and MMRP subs. That said, I get what you’re implying about the average woman’s technical aptitude, much less her motivation to keep visual “evidence” of her sexual exploits, and (Beta) guys torturing themselves. However, I think it’s a mistake to think women have no desire to do amateur porn spontaneously. It’s not about women wanting to… Read more »
@hank And this is the disconnect. I have to get warmed up and in a flow to get past mental blocks, tiredness, boredom, etc to push that far. I would be pushing to A3 ALL the time if I had girls . . . it just might take me 20 girls to get to that point. that’s all in your head. you’re starting to form limiting beliefs on how you can ‘pick up.’ it should not take you 20 girls to get to that point. you should be executing this shit all the time every time. that’s how you get… Read more »
Goldmund wrote a book on ‘Camera Game’ and how easy it is to get women to fuck you when you’re taking their picture. Women might not buy a GoPro to shoot their sex acts, but they’ll fight each other to be the first one naked in front of it.
@rollo , from personal experience in my peer counseling days, I assure you women keep video and photos of their sexual acts. You probably wont just take my word for it, tbh most of those stories sound fake to me. women are fucking NINJAS at keeping secrets. and the way most of these guys find this stuff i’m thinking ‘lol why would she ever leave it there?’ like, i know girls who live with guys and the guys have no clue that the girls routinely bring over other men to fuck in their bed. i know girls who are about… Read more »
@Redlight:
“How many women do you know who:
-Are married,
-Own gopro cameras,
-Know how to use them”
At least a few in my area alone. I only know what they use them for by what they present to the public.
If you turn in Go and/or Pro circles it isn’t uncommon. In fact, you Go gurrrls are more likely to show off their Ironman/Tough Mudder/Crossfit exploits than the men are.
Testosterone envy chip on their shoulders. To the extent that some of them take test.
@Scray “nah dude. has little to do with the bits. you are in a rush to BE FUNNY MAKE HER LAUGH. that’s what you gotta kill. ” lol reading your examples for him of what you would do is funny to me because I didn’t expect your game to be so deep rapport-based. I don’t go for the “you must be the nurturing type” for a while, I like to ramp her A2 and make her qualify hard before I’ll give her any positive cold reads or “who do you think you would be in that movie?” stuff. But maybe… Read more »
SJF – you seem to be advocating for the egalitarian of the smaller group (by way of quoting Junger and Harari, plus your own comments), but dismissing the egalitarian as a net negative upon it’s application to larger aggregations of people. From the Junger article you linked awhile back entitled “How PTSD Became a Problem Far Beyond the Battlefield”, I quote the following: “What all these people seem to miss isn’t danger or loss, per se, but the closeness and cooperation that danger and loss often engender. Humans evolved to survive in extremely harsh environments, and our capacity for cooperation… Read more »
@ya e I didn’t expect your game to be so deep rapport-based. well, i’m really into doing a lot of fusion shit now because in 2016 you have to really shock chicks. so I’ll like do an A2 thing that mixes C&F with deep rapport. Like, ‘you seem real nurturing huh, but guarded right….can’t let handsome strangers like me take advantage of it, I get it.” C&F, cold read, eliciting values….lots of shit in every line and it’s overlapping over mutliple stages like boomeranging forward. but yeah, I like deep rapport-vibe game because it makes the C&F breaks WAY more… Read more »
Hey all! Barely keeping up with comments here lol. So I’ve had a week. First the bullshit emotions. Some might remember that my old one-itis started banging my new manager like a year ago, which was a bit of a kick in the teeth. They just made their relationship official, which somehow still has the power to really get me down. When we were together things didn’t work out mostly bc she didn’t want to make our relationship open due to work ties; she begged me not to tell anyone. This is a much more inappropriate relationship (he’s her direct… Read more »
“she says that’s for kids — subcommunication “is this guy for real? is he just weird?”” Or: “From an East Asian perspective this guy is a complete social retard and I should give him a clue that he’s just insulted me.” By pressing the matter he turned the possibly unintended insult into a tactical nuke of a neg, 100 years ago of the killing offense variety, something that isn’t well calibrated to your average reserved East Asian, even of the American born variety. Relevant is the fact that kimono/yukata (what the garment probably actually was) are robes. They are not… Read more »
@rollo, yareally Certainly women are in sex “tapes” everyday, r/gonewild just never stops, pornhub has amateur couple shoots, and cucks are often getting their wives to shoot or are filming the wife in action themselves (sometimes with hidden cameras). However, aside from the cuck cases, the chance of these stories where one woman has shot a boatload of random guy videos herself is zero. The chance of a guy having vanilla only sex with his wife and him finding a few videos where she is doing MFM or FMF with a full set of activities is substantial and would not… Read more »
@scray “but yeah, I like deep rapport-vibe game because it makes the C&F breaks WAY more effective for me.” lol it’s just funny because I’m still picturing you in your “HEY BITCH SUCK MAH DICK” phase from a few years back and now all of a sudden you’re like 6:45 in this episode: http://fullepisodes.biz/himym-s01e14-how-i-met-your-mother-season-1-episode-14-zip-zip-zip-s1e14-with-english-subtitles_c3928450f.html It’s like wtf, when did Scray stop being an asshole?? lol basically this is mrw reading your current style of game at 1:02: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqz6wwDRWiE&t=1m02s “‘HOW THE FUCK WOULD I KNOW, I just met you! lol’” whew…THERE’s the Scray I know. lol “but see, it’s good that… Read more »
@The Man: “Respect for others: As a universal generality, do you believe the empirical evidence shows that other people are subject to the same conditions around self-agency and high self-respect, as you are (despite the nuances of our other differences)?”
http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/Image21.jpg
No.
@rollo
nowadays r/deadbedrooms just deletes the fake stories
instead there are a lot of real ones that should be understood like this one today:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/4rj642/8_years_married_6_years_sexless_4_years_dry/
Since he is already fit and handsome, trp can’t say lift or get more attractive.
In a follow-up comment he writes: “many times I wonder if I should just be an asshole”
Now if in reply you mention the word “dread” then red pill alarms go off, and the comment is extinguished with downvotes. Instead one tells him to be more focused on himself, and be more social/outgoing.
https://twitter.com/sambotta/status/750759990860754944
“I believe her weight gain has affected her desires.”
Houston, we have had an arrow of causality problem.
The “MID-LIFE EPIPHANIES” chapter of
“The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine”
by Rollo Tomassi
will give you a Colorado Mountain High
I’ve read the words thrice before,
but they came alive while I narrated them today…
GET IT and READ THE CHAPTER! http://amzn.to/29np00f
“I just wish she would look at me with the same excitement as a slice of chocolate cake.” lol. wife is in the closet putting away laundry. I sneak up on her. me: “suck my cock” her: “make me” I push her to her knees, throat fuck her and then pound her out from behind. her: “thanks. I needed that.” me: “I don’t care what you need” her: “I know” she goes back to her chores and I go back to my leisure time. chocolate cake guy never had a chance. he has no idea what an asshole really is… Read more »
@ya ahahaha. yeah, if Stifler were smooth about it and all those asides were more a) directed at the girl and b) more subtle, kind of like hinting at something beneath it all, then maybe yeah lol. yeah the rapport is the big value give and the roll off is the C&F “that was bullshit, you haven’t done enough for me to know who you are yet or actually give a shit about this stuff” yeah lol. i like to get it right on the line — is he sincere, does he notice anything about me, is he just a… Read more »
Redlight
“Now if in reply you mention the word “dread” then red pill alarms go off, and the comment is extinguished with downvotes.”
Because of all the women on the boards… same as MMSL.
Following the Platinum Rule would help this guy…
Forge “HA! This is kinda crazy to me. She’s a real good-girl type (I know AWALT, I’m not surprised really it’s just crazy how things really work under the surface). She’s dating a dude, I’m her ‘affair’ basically. ” Nope. she never was a good girl type that was all in YOUR head. she was fishing for booty calls and you were fluffing at first… because you had a mental model of her as a good girl type… All the while she was hitting other dudes… and is now still playing off at least two dudes… Do you get it?… Read more »
chocolate cake story there’s an interesting twist of possible dread he adds later: Our culture accepts multiple wives. Her father has 2, working on a third from what I hear. My father isn’t any better caught cheating on my mother. I could easily get more wives but really (mo’ money mo’ problems) I want to get away from that. I’m not upset at my father(s) decisions, just upset that they didn’t do it differently. You would imagine that someone would want out of that situation but I guess some people just might expect it. I for one wouldn’t put up… Read more »
@Forge the Sky “This is a much more inappropriate relationship (he’s her direct superior; basically he started banging the secretary within weeks of his new position lol) but here they are.” Most guys will end up banging co-workers and inflate their actual value to justify it. Because for most guys being “superior” at work is basically the only time they’re seen as high-value by anyone lol Plus they’re GIVEN isolation and time to build rapport etc because they work together all the time and over time that guy is going to probably stumble across flipping the right switches to be… Read more »
Daygame FR I went to the mall and gamed a clerk I met previously. HB6, trim, 22 yo, practice Daygame target. Bangable but ICDB (I can do better). (I should do more cold approaches on clerks at this mall so that I have more options; I have a high success rate on cold approaches getting to A3, so my frame is solid because I know that I can get more options at will.) So I do my routine about my ex-gf having a bf and wanting to trade up in the context of learning about people/women. Planting the trade up… Read more »
Well, that was weird timing, she just told me lol. Off the cuff. Invited her to come talk w me about it later.
She framed it as some dude asked to date her so she’s been thinking about it the past few days and she didn’t want to say to me that she wanted to but I mean this wouldn’t be a conversation otherwise.
Also, that’s not what I heard elsewhere. Sounds like she’s trying to make it sound like she’s giving me advance notice when it’s actually a bit belated.
“A few of my social circles are full of minority chicks and none of them know fuck all about their culture lol They wouldn’t have a clue you were holding up a kids kimono unless it was just blatantly smaller to where anyone could figure it out.”
A Valley Girl is a Valley Girl is a Valley Girl.
The key point, which is the only reason I commented, was that she did know the difference, even if she only learned it to work in the shop.
@Forge the Sky “Well, that was weird timing, she just told me lol” lol that happened faster than I expected, I thought she’d fuck you a few more times before the guilt swelled over. “She framed it as some dude asked to date her” lol works in two ways: 1) artificially increases her value to maybe make you jealous and commit to her to try to win her and 2) takes accountability off of her, she’s just a passive leaf blowing in the wind. “so she’s been thinking about it the past few days and she didn’t want to say… Read more »
@kfg “The key point, which is the only reason I commented, was that she did know the difference, even if she only learned it to work in the shop.” My counter-point would be that if he had her properly attracted (actual A2) she wouldn’t have cared. He could have told her to put on a suit of armor and she’d be like “omg lol you’re crazy” instead of “uh that’s a children’s suit of armor.” just like she would say “sure!!” to late night coffee instead of “uh who drinks coffee at night” The fact that she’s still thinking/responding logical… Read more »
@kfg
fuck, hit Post too soon:
“The fact that she’s still thinking/responding logical means he doesn’t have A2 yet is all.”
And my reason for pointing that out is just so that he knows to focus more on learning to get A2 rather than focusing on like “oh I should’ve learned which kimonos are for adults and what Camboians wear” and going off in the wrong direction, that’s all.
Most guys in here are afraid of admitting they have a folder in their hd drive or laptop with dozens of labled subfolders in them each with several videos of them fuking different women; a woman for each folder. I do. In many of those it is the girl holding the phone camera, it being the girl’s idea to shoot. I think redlight is just playing devil’s advocate. My constant fear is that the women who have copies of the videos may not keep them well secured.
@cheupez
Most guys in here are afraid of admitting they have a folder in their hd drive
Shhhh. Don’t let the cat out of the bag. 😉
@ redlight That r/deadbedrooms stuff is horrible and depressing. How in the fuck do dudes get married to chicks like this without realizing that they aren’t ” that chick ” that will massage them and blow them and fuck them…etc. etc. I get that chicks can put up a major front while dating, but a guy has to be able to see through that shit, no? I’m starting to look at some of these guys in these type of stories with a heavy side eye…. Hmmmm… On the camera front, after my divorce, I did notice that women were not… Read more »