A Man in Demand Radio – Talk 3

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Last Friday I had the opportunity (and time) to talk with Christian McQueen once again – this time for a solid three hours. I hardly noticed the time passing since it’s like an exchange among friends, very casual, and a little upbeat I think.

We went into quite a bit and my going on longer is always the first request I get after most interviews so I thought I’d accommodate.

You can pick up the audio for free at Christian’s A Man in Demand Radio here.

As I said, it’s three hours so you may want to download it and listen at your leisure. We did this last Friday which was the day after the Brexit vote so, yes, I did get asked for some political opinions, but as always I stay on what my take is from an intersexual perspective.

We went into the state of Hypergamy in 2016 and how personal and social dynamics are being influenced by it, and I offer some practical solutions for guys dealing with it in the now. We discuss marriage and how and why it’s changed. I also answer some Twitter questions ranging from dealing with one’s family through a Red Pill lens to answering the common question, “Where do you see this going?” or The Talk.

There’s a lot more in this than anything I’ve done with Christian previously, so tell me what you think and feel free to ask me questions about anything or discuss anything I go into in this interview.

Enjoy!

45 comments

  1. When the plane landed at LAX, I pulled up Audible.
    Pleasant surprise…
    Amazon & Audible want more people to hear
    THE RATIONAL MALE

    “The Rational Male” by Rollo Tomassi audiobook was
    $24.95, it’s $1.99 on Audible & Amazon this week.

  2. Rollo,
    Outstanding interview! And the longer format is great, really interesting to hear you tie different subjects together. Suggestion – add a page to this site with links to your interviews, sure your readers would appreciate it.
    BK

  3. 1:06:14 – Dibs.

    Good talk so far, nice to hear a variety of subjects instead of just a rehash of the basic TRM 101 general male self-improvement stuff. Personally I like long formats like this since these kinds of interviews normally waste the first half hour just catching the listeners up on who the speaker is and their history and general topics they cover etc etc I like actual discussion.

    ‘Cause there’s still lots of Red Pill shit to solve to help men, like a roadmap for how to pull off having kids with a positive feminine influence in their lives in 2016’s society, how long a man’s SMV prime REALLY is if he’s got a good head start on red pill knowledge, the shifts into open hypergamy and how technology is influencing things out there and what to do about it, how to reach more men sooner in their lives when EVERYTHING in society from day one is FI-conditioning them and removing male influence for as long as possible (single/divorcing moms, women caretakers/teachers/etc, a boy can make it to fucking COLLEGE without any male influence and it could get even worse), how to even safely MAKE it through school/college without getting labelled a rapist/abuser/creepy/etc when girls jump to those names so fast now, how to avoid addiction to escaping reality through media, videogames, the upcoming VR porn revolution that’s going to suck young men into a world where no one will judge/shame them and girls will give them artificial attention and how that’ll stunt their social growth, how do we RAISE good quality daughters (see SJF? I know you old guys have valuable experiences we can learn from lol) when every influence in their lives is pushing them to self-destruct or disrespect their male influences and ignore their primes to ride the carousel and chase careers that don’t matter to high-value men they’re trying to settle with in their 30s.

    How to recover from or avoid social media slander (in the Mystery Method era you would tell girls your name and real job and make it sound cool and show her all your personal stuff so she feels comfort with you…now? That shit is DANGEROUS…one lying tweet from a jilted lover can destroy your career and ruin your future career prospects…girls can keep tabs on their orbiters and dig for information on new prospects online to see which ones are successful or have become successful etc), the whole “bring down successful men’s legacy when they hit old age” trend that’s been going on the last few years, dealing with office politics as workplace environments get more and more hostile to masculinity, how to help our Blue Pill buddies recover from divorces or convince them to not get married or get pre-nups and try to protect themselves and equip them the best we can so that if shit explodes they’re not completely destroyed…there’s SO much to discuss still. Swipe any of this shit to do articles on, it’s all massive discussion-fodder.

    Also funny to hear Christian confirming some of the infield observations I’ve been going on about recently, like the 90/10 gap widening thing is just blatantly obvious to him like it is to anyone macking the <25yo crowd lol

  4. (and by discussion about those topics, I mean coming up with actionable codified solutions that hold up under pressure testing VS just acknowledging that they’re problems that exist lol Red Pill will need to slowly shift into solutions, just like Mystery codified PUA into a teachable system to solve a set of problems…personally I won’t consider the Red Pill anywhere near done until we have that kind of stuff available for men, and some of it is going to take 20+ years for guys to field test and compare the outcomes etc, which is part of why I try to not let the art of the Field Report die off…the more normalized it is to share notes, the more we can narrow down what’s consistently working and what are outliers or keyboard theory or inconsistent and need to be drilled deeper, etc)

  5. There’s a lot to explore re: redpill in the work environment.

    I work at a large software organization in aerospace. Total size of the geographically distributed sw org is ~550 people. My immediate group has about 30 people: a late-50s man in charge of the group, me and 4 women in middle-management type roles, and 20 or so beta (to varying degrees) men who do the actual development work.

    I’m divorced in my early 40s.

    Of the 4 women who are my nominal peers one is recently divorced in her late 50s and the other three are married in their 30s. An HB6, HB5.5, and an HB2.

    It’s much easier to get along with the older woman. She’s a very competent project manager and very logical (although she has some blind spots that most revolve around risk aversion). The younger women are competent to varying degrees but can be incredibly illogical at times. I attribute the difference to being on different sides of menopause. A testable hypothesis – post-menopausal women are more like men.

    As a side note, I recommend Venkat Rao’s Gervais Principle series of blog posts to anyone wanting a broad sketch of how corporate dynamics work. The sociopath-clueless-loser hierarchy is very clear where I work.

    Anyways, Robert Greene describes how the British Prime Minister Disraeli increased his political power by charming an aged Queen Victoria in a pseudo-romantic relationship. That’s the type of approach I take with the older woman, with a very light touch of course. So when she wore a blouse with a kind of split sleeve a while ago I commented, “ooh, showing a little skin today huh?”. Her same-age husband divorced her a couple of years ago for a much younger woman and I’m sure she appreciates it.

  6. @Nature Boy, I know I mention working with and for women within a Red Pill context in the interview, but I should’ve also mentioned working for a Blue Pill male boss as well and understanding the dynamics at play while dealing with both women and men still trapped in the Matrix.

    What’s late 50s group leader like?

  7. @YaReally: I’m not sure much (if anything) can be done about 90/10 gap widening through RP awareness. Even with more men RP aware and having some game, top 10% is still top 10% and with the technology helping make the world smaller, the women will have access to many men to pick those out.

    I get the impression that even if the general male population becomes more alpha but keep the social and tech conditions the same, you aren’t necessarily reaching a bigger % of men getting laid as AFs – you just raise the average quality of the few ones getting laid (you would get less marriages and BB situations, but we are already starting to see that).

    An analogy: given that there is a fixed number of pro basketball teams in the U.S., a widespread initiative of getting kids to train basketball won’t raise the % of pro basketball players, just make the ones that make the cut better than otherwise.

    What do you think of this?

  8. @yareally

    some of it is going to take 20+ years for guys to field test

    Moving target due to technology and culture. It will never be “done”. We can have an association to ascertain what works in the future “current environment”.

  9. @Rollo

    Late 50s group leader and his wife have two daughters in their 20s. His wife has a similar leadership job elsewhere in corporation. I don’t know him outside of work.

    He stays quiet on politics and his outside of work beliefs. I have no reason to believe he’s redpill, but he does have the complete respect of the women in the group and I’d say he has a good bit of amused mastery within the work context at least.

    He was about to go off on an adventure vacation a couple of weeks ago and the 4 women in the group were around him wishing him well etc … I almost made a Charlie’s Angels joke but thought better of it.

  10. @YaReally

    90/10 gap widening?

    As in now the majority of women go for ONLY top percentile men? Or only 90 percent of women that most guys would shit their pants trying to talk to anyways?

  11. @Rollo:
    Just started listening – interesting Voice, though i thought it would be different.

    Anyways, would you mind to send me an E-Mail? I sended a request Months ago, but maybe got lost in the shuffle. I would like to aks a business-related Question (i am a publisher in the EU).

    Kind Regards,
    Tvvist

    I will tonight

  12. Nature Boy

    ” The sociopath-clueless-loser hierarchy is very clear where I work.”

    Sociopath is way too strong… it only appears that way from BP betas perspective, because they have zero experience in having a frame and enforcing their frame. What you generally see at the top are people who will 100% put their interests up front and very quickly (even when it will take time to implement securing their interests). An important qualification because IF you are going to try and change to embrace a Platinum Rule perspective [do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it], which is similar to establishing and enforcing your frame, it does not equate YOU with being a sociopath. Though the term sociopath is humorous… it’s generally just a guy who is a bit of a dick in getting his way.

    “increased his political power by charming an aged Queen Victoria in a pseudo-romantic relationship. ”

    Yes… I made a good career of “dating” my female clients and charming my female employees…

    When in doubt – be charming.

  13. @IAS:

    Interesting statistic I ran across just today – if you are 7 feet tall, there is a 17% chance you are in the NBA.

  14. As we improve our general quality, we’d need to up our ability to use dread and resist a bitch’s attempt to eclipse our authority.

    No matter what, women need men to actively participate in their own demise.

    These are the same women that will go overseas to fuck with your head.

    Chuck, game on. No? I’m new to this but I know when someone wants to outmuscle me. We got Qi gong for shit-heads like that.

  15. Think about what the 90/10 argument is saying. It is saying that 90% of all women under 25 are having sex with 10% of the total men at some point in time. My guess is that would apply both locally, regionally and nationally. (Internationally?) That is a really tough hypothesis to ever prove.

    I’ve already said that there is no Pareto split going on with LTRs. Beta men are getting sex with hot girls when those girls want LTRs. Whether or not the sex is “beta sex” can be debated. And there is certainly hypergamy going on in the short term / r-selection mating markets, especially in clubs and on-line. But 90/10? I’m dubious.

  16. “My guess is that would apply both locally, regionally and nationally.”

    Population statistics do not imply homogeneity of the population.

    “It is saying that 90% of all women under 25 are having sex with 10% of the total men at some point in time.”

    No. It says that 90% of all women desire sex with only 10% of the men.

    Sex in exchange for provisioning/validation/revenge/whatever can be debated.

  17. KFG

    “Sex in exchange for provisioning/validation/revenge/whatever can be debated.”

    I think though that what women find desirable can also be debated… at the very least you can observe fairly regularly common arcs… tropes such as the high school Alpha (jock or badboy) and then 4 years on the woman hates his guts and is hot for a low level VP who drives a BMW she meets at a GNO etc… and sticks a fork into former bad boy and monkey branches on… and this is not even considering “epiphany phase” girls. You see this all the time in WC SES early 20’s girls… young military wives etc.

    If the only truth to a woman is her emotion, and that emotion is in the moment, desire is mutable to a degree…

  18. There is also the fact that the top 10% of men would not have sex with 90% of women because there are a lot off ugly and fat women in that group. So you would have to say that the top 10% of men are having sex with 90% of the top… 30% of women? 40%? Less? More? At this point we are no longer dealing with a Pareto distribution. It looks more like high value men (short term SMV) pairing up with high value women. I’m not saying its 1 to 1 and there is no hypergamy. But I seriously doubt “90/10”.

  19. “There is also the fact that the top 10% of men would not have sex with 90% of women because there are a lot off ugly and fat women in that group.”

    That is the example to be given to men who doubt the obverse. Quasimodo desired Esmeralda, not some other misshapen woman. What is desirable is what is desirable.

    However, because men desire sex, rather than status, from their partners they “settle” much lower and often don’t even feel like they are settling, so long as they are getting laid. Some men will bang anything that moves and much of what doesn’t. Fewer women will do the same.

    Particularly when we get into the top 10%. The “animalistic” male is more likely to fuck down and the smokin’ hot rich babe is more likely to die alone than fuck down.

    “But I seriously doubt “90/10”.”

    I believe the argument (which I note is not mine and my arguments here are addressing what you said, not the Pareto distribution argument) is that that is the direction things are moving in, not where things currently are.

  20. @kfg

    the smokin’ hot rich babe is more likely to die alone than fuck down.

    Smokin’ hot at 20 and maybe 30, then looks decline. Riches usually arrive after the Wall.

    A “used-to-be-hot” rich broad is more likely to die alone than fuck men who are less than 10s.

  21. @gb_hill

    The top and bottom 10% correspond to 0-3 and 7-10.

    Men who are 7s will fuck down to 4s and those men are in the top 10%.

    Men who are 7+ (the top 10% of men) will fuck women who are 4+ (the top 90% of women). If drunk, those men may even fuck lower.

  22. Although the celebrity machine creates exceptions (Emma Watson, if a woman is smokin’ hot, 20 and rich, the riches likely arrived before she did and she simply considers them her due by birthright. On the other hand, she is more likely to accept an arranged marriage than most (Grace Kelly).

    We’re moving at the intersection of sex and class here.

  23. @Sentient
    “Sociopath is way too strong… ”

    Rao goes into great detail defining the sociopaths, clueless, and losers. You’re correct his definition of sociopath is not the most common one of “psychopath-lite”. Simply people comfortable performing the actions (i.e. mass layoffs, intentional manipulation of clueless, financial exploitation of losers) necessary for the organization to continue to exist.

  24. @gb_hill, ‘having sex’ with and ‘would like to have sex’ with the upper 10% of men are two different prospects.

    The belief that women are entitled to an apex Alpha (via social media and falsely inflated ideas of SMV) informs their understanding about Hypergamy, but having and wanting are two different things.

    If a woman married to a Beta has her Hypergamous doubt informed by the want or the belief she could (should) have access to a man of a higher calibre SMV, that Pareto dynamic informs her dominant Frame of the relationship that the Beta man has abdicated into.

  25. @Rollo

    lol can’t help but picture Disco Stu from the Simpsons when you describe your mom’s alpha

  26. Management jobs in the corporate world – yeah – lotsa machavellian stuff – lotsa fun (not) – it’s one great big manipulation machine – the thing is ….. in the majority of cases in middle management it’s just regular people (except you gotta be a little smarter than your average bird) doing these jobs ….. so it becomes contextually psychopathic! – then some of these regular people do have meltdowns cause maybe they suppressed the natural disgust that arises a bit too much …….. if you don’t find the milieu disgusting in some ways and are smart – well then – that world was made just for you! and you will go far young man (or woman)!

    But for the regular folk that take these jobs for the better dinero – finding a way to ride the wave (disgust + paranoia + self-disgust) with some humility and mirth – without cracking – not the easiest row to hoe – but somebody has to do it and all!.

    The role of any for-profit corporation is to increase profit – always and as quickly as possible – but without killing the goose of course – which is always the ever-present background unspoken temptation. All other considerations bow massively to that basic motive (though there is plenty of lip service for the otherwise). If you believe the otherwise, even momentarily – well somebody be manipulating your ass then (maybe even bum-fuck-wise)! In this business world people don’t matter one shit …. it’s the money all the way – if you are an agent that can bring the money in one way or the other (or avoid costs) ….. hey that be honored bigtime then (again not you, ….. it’s the mollah!).

    Hey our leadership is filled with people that thrive in this milieu. No wonder we got a cultural shitshow on our hands! The people that run things don’t see this as a problem at all – they be lovin this world made just for them!

  27. Great show Rollo ! Ordered your books straight away after listening your talk.
    I know deep in my gut-balls i need this.

    Respect.

  28. Oakland PD – the police are fucking the pros free of charge at the police gun range (or some other such private police venue) in every single city in North America. Ha! Its’ being goin on for generation too!

    Nothing is going to come of this – watch ….. this story will just go away. These stories always just go away.

    After all the police do have dirt on the people for whom they are the henchmen.

  29. Redpill lens at work moment. A couple of weeks ago one of the younger guys on the team (must be 25 or 26) left for a couple of weeks for his wedding/honeymoon. All the ladies (“Charlie’s Angels” haha) got together to give him a big sendoff with a happy hour, another party, and big collective gift card. The gift card amounted to several hundred dollars and, of course, was to Bed Bath and Beyond.

    Another piece of raw meat for the FI.

    I bit my tongue about the matter aside from a couple comments to a like-minded married with kids guy. No need to be seen as the bitter divorced guy. However I couldn’t bring myself to sign the card or contribute to the gift card.

    The guy getting married is a classic nice guy provider and I fear what may happen to him down the road.

  30. @Nature Boy, it’s important to observe the interactions at work from a Red Pill perspective, but it’s better when you can leverage people’s very predictable natures to your advantage.

    Law 14
    Pose as a Friend, Work as a Spy

    Knowing about your rival is critical.Use spies to gather valuable information that will keep you a step ahead. Better still: Play the spy yourself. In polite social encounters, learn to probe. Ask indirect questions to get people to reveal their weaknesses and intentions. There is no occasion that is not an opportunity for artful spying.

  31. @Rollo

    Since my Red Pill awakening 2-3 years ago (typical beta frivorce, 3 young kids) I’ve used the Red Pill and Robert Greene books at work defensively, to preserve energy while keeping the paycheck so I could focus on getting my personal life in order. I agree there is a whole offensive playing field that I haven’t tapped into yet … but I’m eager to.

    Did you mean to indicate earlier that you have worked for a Blue Pill male boss before? Have you written about it? I know you’ve written about a business associate who couldn’t be trusted due to multiple divorces, alimony, etc.

  32. @YaReally

    Two seemingly contradictory narratives are noticeable in the Manosphere.

    On one hand, there are the social and cultural factors you mentioned above, that will all end up disincentivizing men in the mating market, worsening the “crisis” of men disconnecting from social life: the spread of 3D/VR porn, the growing risk of vengeful women using social media against men, increasingly rabid and totalitarian feminist indoctrination of boys and young men, increasingly punitive laws on alimony, child support and “rape”.

    On the other hand, we have men arguing that the willful betaization and feminization of men will reach such catasthropic levels that it will become easier and easier for red-pilled men to stand out from the male crowd and bring the alpha. A similar argument is that being a natural or “counterfeit” alpha has never been better.

    My bet is that these arguments are only seemingly contradictory, and that these trends will cancel each other out. In other words, simply alphaizing yourself as an average man will become *relatively* easier, but you will have fewer incentives to do so as the quality of the average woman will keep dropping (due to feminist indoctrination and the obesity epidemic) and the social environment will become less and less suitable for Game, and more and more anti-male.

    All in all, what we can expext, at least in the short run, is more of the same.

  33. Rollo, I’ve had two vasectomies. Yes, the first one didn’t take. I didn’t have any accidents, though, because I wasn’t taking any chances until I got the all clear. Anyway, I couldn’t find any laws that make consent by the wife mandatory, but some doctors will require her to give consent before they will do one. Some doctors have this policy for moral reasons and some are afraid of being sued by the wife.

    Men need to stand together to change this and to help bring things like Vasalgel to market. Interestingly enough, Vasalgel is the brainchild of a woman. Check it out here: https://www.parsemusfoundation.org/history/

  34. Just listened to 40min mark. Really good about knowing the real truth.

    It’s also funny that 48 years old Rollo speaks like 32, and 32 year old speaks like 55 years old.

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