Whenever I use a manosphere acronym I’m always torn between presuming my readers will already know the terminology and need to re-explain a concept that the letters represent to new readers. We use a lot of acronyms and placeholder terms in the ‘sphere. These are necessary, but when you apply needed terms to abstractions and unfamiliar ideas critics will always fill the blanks in for themselves by telling you what you think you mean according to their preconceptions.
Next to the (abstract) terms of ‘Alpha’ and ‘Beta’, SMP and SMV are two of the more contentious placeholders for manosphere concepts. SMP is Sexual Marketplace and SMV is used to represent the relative Sexual Market Value of an individual within that SMP. There’s a lot to consider when when we attempt to define just what that ‘marketplace’ entails, but the point of contention for critics is that by valuating a person based on a perceived market state we dehumanize that individual. For those uninitiated to Red Pill concepts, a complete denial of any sexual marketplace is usually the first retort.
“People are People and everyone is special” or some variation of the nebulous individual’s uniqueness needing to be held as the benchmark for each case of ‘value’ are the common refrains. Even denying an observable, measurable marketplace altogether for fear of being ‘judgemental’ is part of the Red Pill critic’s predictable counter to the idea of a sexual marketplace.
However, the latent purpose of this denial is really a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ tactic that keeps players ignorant of the system they exist in. Just as with the 49th Law of Power, deny the game exists and you can better play it.
As with all Red Pill truths, the awareness of where one fits into the scheme of the SMP, and accepting the sometimes cruel realities of it can be a bucket of cold reality for men (and women). The simple truth is that our capacity to valuate various stimuli in our environment has been a survival-beneficial adaptation for us.
We commodify a lot of our personal lives these days. We simply don’t have a problem accepting the easier aspects of this. ‘Time is money” is quick aphorism we apply to a lot of situation for ourselves. When a woman does the breakdown of all her ‘unpaid’ housework or childcare for an article in Forbes she’s lauded for commodifying and valuating that work. But let a man commodify women based on their general sexual appeal and utility to his sexual strategy and he’s dehumanizing and objectifying women.
If you’re interested in further reading about how we apply market principles to various aspects of our lives I’d suggest the book Life Inc. by Doug Rushkoff. It’s a great read, particularly the ideas about how we view buying a house as an investment rather than a place to live. I bring this up here because it’s a similar dynamic to how women invest themselves with men in the long term and the short term according to Hypergamous necessity. Women’s Hypergamy largely defines the modern sexual marketplace.
The Benefits of Opportunism
Women love opportunistically, men love idealistically. I’ve written several essays about how Hypergamy predisposes (often subconsciously) women to sexual opportunism, and men’s concept of love is rooted in idealism. I won’t belabor summing up these dynamics today, but if you want to review them you can read through the Love series of posts, and male idealism can be found here.
In 2016, the modern dating landscape, as well as contemporary marriage, has become varying degrees of ‘sex work’. I went into this topic a year and a half ago in Commodifying Love. This post was mostly meant to elaborate on another post Dalrock had written observing the utility feminist had with being miserly with love. I sought to explore it a bit further:
As Open Hypergamy becomes more proudly embraced and normalized in society, so too will women’s sexual strategy be laid more bare. And in laying that strategy bare, so too will women’s opportunistic model of love become more apparent to men. This new apparentness is already conflicting with the old-order messaging that kept men hopeful of realizing their idealistic love state.
Women cannot sell Open Hypergamy and the love-conquers-all ethereal ideal love at the same time.
I daresay this quote was a good bit of foreshadowing. One aspect of having a Red Pill lens is that it allows you to see the writing on the wall in so many ways with regard to intersexual dynamics and how they influence societal shifts. When I proposed that men and women’s concepts of love differ, and that much of the disconnect between the sexes is the result of the fact that we don’t share a mutual point of origin for that love, Blue Pill people got upset.
Women’s concept of love originates in an opportunism stemming from a subconscious need to optimize Hypergamy. To this day I still get angry comments from women for having used the word “opportunism”. Naturally, there’s a negative connotation to opportunism, but I use it in this context to describe a function in women’s sexual strategy. I could’ve used the term ‘practical’ or ‘pragmatic’, but often enough what inspires women’s need to optimize Hypergamy is anything but practical or pragmatic.
Everyone needs to realize that men are the “romantics pretending to be realists” and women; vice versa.
This week I received more than a few requests to give my take on the latest trend in women’s sexual opportunism. This comes courtesy of Vanity Fair and their exposé of the Sugar Babies/Sugar Daddies “dating” dynamic that’s become part of The New Prostitution Economy. Have a read of the whole article, but the short version is a breakdown of how women (all in their SMV peak years) look for “arrangements” with generous men eager to fund their lifestyles or (ostensibly) their education goals. In exchange, these men get the privilege of ‘dating’ if not fucking these women who would otherwise be out of whatever league they ascribe themselves to.
I have a real love-hate relationship with articles like this. It’s far too easy to pile on and get wrapped up in the salaciousness and outrage dynamic – which is really what the article is written to prompt. But at the risk of writing an article about how “horrible women are/becoming” I think this trend is really the next logical extension of what I was describing in Commodifying Love a year and a half ago.
Yes, it’s just prostitution by another name. Yes, there is a pop-culture effort to normalize what would otherwise be a manipulative exploitation of men – but who cares, right? If poor Beta saps have the money, it’s only pragmatic that women legitimize the ‘pay-to-play’ model while they can capitalize on it in their prime years, right? And yes, the feminist narrative will simultaneously vilify the men resorting to being a “Sugar Daddy” while applauding the empowered women who play the game as well as they do.
Sarcasm aside, what’s underneath this dynamic is a graphic illustration of just how women’s opportunism looks when the stigma of keeping Hypergamy concealed from men is now brought into the light and proudly embraced in a feminine-centric social order. The social effort to normalize Open Hypergamy takes another step forward when women’s effective prostitution becomes indistinguishable from ‘normal’ dating – that is dating based on common attraction or interest.
The ‘date’-as-investment-opportunity becomes inseparable from women’s opportunistic concept of, and approach towards, love. Commodifying love and sex blurs the line between what is genuine desire and what is motivated interest. The conventional meme is that women have a difficult time separating sex from emotional investment, but the progression of Open Hypergamy – in this case the deliberate feigning of intimate interests on the part of women – puts the lie to this and reveals the true pragmatism with which women will apply their sexuality. Open Hypergamy becomes open prostitution, but this relationship becomes an accepted exchange or transaction the more comfortable women get with revealing the crueler nature of their sexual strategy.
“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore.”
When we look at women’s opportunistic approach to love, psycho-social dynamics like the War Bride dynamic come into stark contrast next to the Sugar Babies trend – they are both natural extensions of women’s need to optimize Hypergamy and ensure their long term security.
“You can’t tell who the hookers are anymore,” says another guy at the bar, a well-known D.J. in his 30s. “They’re not strippers, they’re not on the corner, there’s no more madam. They look like all the other club girls.”
He tells a story of a young woman he let stay in his hotel room one weekend while he was working in Las Vegas. “She met up with this other girl and all of a sudden they had all these men’s watches and wallets and cash. They wereworking.” He laughs, still amazed at the memory.
“It’s like hooking has just become like this weird, distorted extension of dating,” the D.J. says. “ ‘He took me to dinner. He throws me money for rent’—it’s just become so casual. I think it’s dating apps—when sex is so disposable, if it doesn’t mean anything, then why not get paid for it? But don’t call it prostitution—no, now it’s liberation.”
They all look the same because the commodification of intimacy is the same. Hooking is dating when the only degree of separation is in the comfort women have in the transaction. The necessary compartmentalizing of feelings or emotional investment on the part of women – the ones we’ve been sold for so long as inseparable from their sexuality – are only mitigated by men they perceive as having a higher SMV than those who they view as ‘clients’.
Money isn’t a factor in this equation of SMV; why would it be when provisioning is so easily had via dating clients ready to pay her rent or something else comparable? I’ve dug into this before, but with respect to women’s short-term sexual priorities (the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy) money rarely plays a role in genuine arousal; and even then it’s by order of degree in how necessitous that woman may be – or in this case, how entitled to those resources she has convinced herself she deserves.
The larger social embrace of “Sugaring” is an extension of Open Hypergamy. So not only is there an expectation of capitalizing on a woman’s party years, but that once she’s reached the Epiphany Phase she can be relatively confident that her years of Sugaring will be socially normalized and not factor into her long-term capacity to optimize Hypergamy (see the Sandberg effect). Women’s opportunistic concept of love is informed by Hypergamy, so it feeds into the SMP valuation of her intimate transactions.
And this dynamic isn’t just limited to younger women in their SMV peak years; women in their later phases of maturity have also found how useful apps like Tinder are in getting men to do the manual labor tasks they’d otherwise have to pay for themselves.
Genuine femininity has become so rare in our present social order that it can now be bartered as a luxury experience for men who can afford it. So uncommon is feminine behaviors and demeanor now that men will pay a woman’s bills when they can convincingly act feminine, sweet and appreciative. It’s no surprise that married men account for the majority of Sugar Daddies; they seek what they lack in their marriages – sex, femininity, appreciation, caring, even loving conversation – an escape from wives who feel entitled to their efforts and provisioning with out reciprocation.
Even feigned femininity is better than a nagging loneliness in marriage
Transactions
Acknowledging Hypergamy openly is acknowledging the transactional nature of women’s concept of love. It’s ugly, but as Hypergamy becomes an increasingly normalized a blurring of the line between dating and prostitution becomes more common. As I’ve said before, there will come a point that even the most Blue Pill man will be forced to recognize women’s blatant sexual strategies. As it stands now there is some confusion for these guys, thus, we see men wondering who the hooker is and who the available club girl is because both employ similar methodologies.
As a result men become less able to distinguish genuine desire from transactional role playing by women. Even in marriage transactional role playing has already been normalized and a presumption of a feminine frame of authority pervades most marriages – wives allow a husband to believe he’s in his Frame so long as the transaction is beneficial to what her ego believes is her due (see Briffault’s Law).
Solutions & Caveats
Sometimes it’s not enough to simply say “now you know, and knowing is half the battle”. The other half of the battle is taking actions and precautions to avoid the tar pits and protect oneself. In the future I believe it will be imperative for men not only to understand the nature of women’s sexual strategy, but also what to expect from the results of women’s previous decisions to effect them.
Guys ought to consider that by marrying or engaging in an LTR with former Sugar Babies they will not only deal with an Alpha Widow in terms of her sexual past, but also Sugar Daddy provider widows as well. Imagine the lifestyle switch to a lower socioeconomic status than what her former Daddy provided her with. Even dutiful Betas in Waiting will find their patience tested in competing with the previous lifestyle of a Sugar Baby.
Of course the easiest answer is always to recuse yourself from dating a Sugar Baby, to say nothing about entering an LTR with her, but as I mentioned earlier, hooking will be dating or some crossing of that line in the not so distant future. It’s important to bear this in mind, particularly when the transactional nature of it will run contradictory to the narrative that men are never owed sex for anything. The subcommunication is one of an implied contract, but the indignation will be one of men’s non-selected presumptions that sex is what’s being barter for.
From now and into the foreseeable future men must consider women from a realistic assessment of how their sexual strategies inform their decisions and base their own decisions accordingly. It’s also important to remember that the sexual market place differs in various contexts. Usually this context is reflective of the culture or social group engaging in, and reinforcing it. Women sexual opportunism doesn’t change, only how it’s expressed in a social context. Not all women are ‘Sugaring’, however the motives that allow for a normalization of it exist in all women – even the sweet nice ones who want to make a good impression on you.
It’s not impossible to engender a genuine desire in a woman. If that weren’t the case I wouldn’t be writing, but it’s important to be aware of how Hypergamy will evolved social dynamics to better facilitate its optimization. This can be a very damaging influence on both women and the men who attempt to navigate a sexual marketplace founded on unchecked Hypergamy.
@redlight,
Were it me, I would move to a place with less (potential) drama. That’s the nice thing about engineering in an all-male group – no drama.
But I loved the Evil Client section. By all means, use what you have to the advantage of your job.
“Pussy is a zero sum game.”
huh? Granted the laws of physics prevent two dicks from occupying exactly the same space in one vagina at one moment… but if we are both fucking a woman how is your turn my loss?
On being a man. My first GF taught me the rudiments of game in ’62. I learned to swagger from 3 years in an outlaw MC gang. Biker bars are my favorites. But I don’t go to those places to get chicks. Too much competition. It is a good place for testing though. If a waitress in one of those places gives you extra attention you know you have learned something.
My advice to newbies? Don’t get yourself killed. It will ruin your prospects.
@alchemist, Pussy is most emphatically **NOT** a zero sum game. In a zero sum game, when a resource is consumed it is gone and not available to other players. You’re forgetting about the fact that women respond with arousal to positive, alpha men. Alphas create more pussy, and the more alphas intereact with women the greater the pool of pussy becomes. IOW, when an alpha consumes pussy, MORE pussy is created for more alphas to enjoy. … and of course, we are all aware of the fact that negative, loser betas EXTINGUISH pussy. So betas are playing WORSE than a… Read more »
@Sentient
” the laws of physics prevent two dicks from occupying exactly the same space in one vagina at one moment… but if we are both fucking a woman how is your turn my loss?”
It’s only your loss if you’re thinking like a hardcore monogamist.
Polyamatory for the win!
@redlight, Great examples! And yes, this kind of activity is going on all the time in workplaces, for those who have eyes to see. An example from when I was a young buck in college, doing some IT work on the side for my professional school. I was in the office of the dean of admissions (MILF, maintained herself to perfection, FWIW) and sort of became a fly on the wall doing my thing, with Dean MILF forgetting I was there. Her (female) admin assistant comes in and they started picking out hot boy applicants for her to interview. The… Read more »
@Andy “but I highly doubt they will be able to resist the temptation to push it to the point where the openly acknowledge that providers make their skin crawl, but still expect them to pay up” Chick sent me screencaps of her convo with her friend last night where they’re lol’ing at calling their orbiters various nicknames based on the things they do for them (one guy’s nickname is “Free Dinner” ’cause that’s all he’s used for, another is “Taxi” ’cause he drives her around etc These guys have expensive cars and shit) and lol’ing about how pissed guys would… Read more »
Post in mod, plz save me Rollo!
@hmm
“Were it me, I would move to a place with less (potential) drama.”
One place that engaged me had mandatory use of lie detectors to ensure staff were not blackmail targets or other problems (this was when my kids were very young and I had bought a home in the matrix). There married folk never flirted.
@redlight I personally do not get involved sexually with any person form work, ever. I’m even hardcore enough that I have avoided sexual play with women for other organizations, like the charity I’m involved with. Of course, lots of guy (and girls) do play in the workplace. Sometimes with great results, sometimes disastrous. I do notice that it’s often because they’re AFCs who are so starved for sexual success they take the bait when it’s offered to them on a plate at work, regardless the possible consequences. There is one bedrock principal I think anyone should follow: never get involved… Read more »
Hypergamy dictates that women marry up or at least horizontally. Considering more females than males are now in college/university and given the advantages young attractive females have men are playing catch up financially. SUGARBABY can get her rent, college fees AND social life paid for from 18/23 how much is this 5 year package worth? 150,000 $$ ?? She will also be able to find a job bartendering easily if she is cute Men meanwhile will be on the hook for all of the above during these years unless your family is wealthy. So you come out of college with… Read more »
maybe it’s better to be in a business where relationship drama results in new product: https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/1452988/as-taylor-swift-and-calvin-harris-feud-hits-boiling-point-we-take-a-look-at-both-teams-extraordinary-claims/ I look forward to the song wars, this is going to make the Ed Sheeran (“don’t fuck with my love”) Ellie Goulding (her song and interviews said we weren’t in a relationship, I can fuck who I want) look like a walk in the park Basically the FI states that men are never to have complaints about relationship state, and there will be relationship history revisionism as necessary. One can rewrite Orwell’s 1984 as living under the FI, the ministry of gender equality and… Read more »
FR tl;dr Dancing can be awesome even when you intend to have fun by being obnoxious…the activity involved in getting social proof can also be also awesome and leads to a lot of options and fun Weeeell, when I started out for the night I was intending to have fun being obnoxious with girls, but just dancing was awesome. The venue was booked for a private party when I got there, so I read RM at Taco Bell until country dancing started later. The staff gave me guff for coming in to a private party…and I missed the sign on… Read more »
@YaReally Asian chick at the end tries to go against the crowd’s narrative talking some common sense. Till the black chick shuts THAT nonsense down and the crowd laughs her silly ideas out of there. And that’s a GIRL…who’s ASIAN…she’s supposed to be protected as FUCK by their standards. Imagine a cis-het-white-MALE trying to take a stand like that?? lol Not a guy without frame…I can do that because I have frame control…I did that early in the week in a social setting and an old feminist woman eyeflirted with me…I can laugh at silly shit…more reason for men to… Read more »
@redlight “I follow the rule: don’t eat where I shit. I can get pussy elsewhere (hey, it’s even at home).” If another part of your rule is “I like my job and would like to keep it” then the answer to all your situations is “do nothing” and “avoid being alone with any of them” and “act like a chode as much as possible when you interact with them to try to turn them off and avoid triggering attraction”. @Blaximus @Sentient “Honestly, if you look at my social circle(s) and friends and family, we are anachronistic today. I used to… Read more »
@Ya Really:
That white chode who folds up like wet toilet paper before the onslaught of the ethnic, spoiled two year old is not merely a professor, but a college Master and on the Time magazine 100 Most Influential People in the World list. He is supposed to be a real Man of Power.
He didn’t resign; he “stepped down” as Master and went on sabbatical, so technically he’s still a professor. He just doesn’t lecture, or appear on campus. But other than that . . .
@yareally
“He’s 100% convinced that women literally just hire based on how much attraction you trigger with zero fucks given about your actual qualifications”
So if he acted chode he wouldn’t get the job? How about when the women are handing out the choice work assignments, best to be a chode? How about promotions, best to be a chode?
Rollo
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/694895877/cfnm-documentary
Banging your work colleagues: OK from what I experienced and saw for myself: – at the bottom wrungs – yeah – lostsa sexy sexy all round, ioi are reciprocated all the time and some fucking ensues, and some drama, and some branch-swinging, and sometimes some divorces, – but workplace-wise – nobody gives a shit – nobody looses their jobs over this stuff – so, if you got nothing otherwise to lose (like a wife and kids), then – why not? See – the jobs are not valued by this group too much, so – who cares right? And the bosses… Read more »
@yareally He’s 100% convinced that women literally just hire based on how much attraction you trigger with zero fucks given about your actual qualifications Got my present job knowing nothing about the subject. Early she asked me if I had any criminal history. I said “Well. . .I robbed a few banks. Stabbed a couple of people. Does that count?” “Did you get caught?” “Nope.” “Then we’re all good.” Every job I have interviewed for that a woman was the hiring manager for I have gotten hired for. If another part of your rule is “I like my job and… Read more »
rugby – clothed female naked male – interesting. I think it is more evidence for my point that, at the deep-rooted psychic level (besides just the superficial), for women too, sex = power. From one perspective, the one with the clothes on has the power. I think Freud was still only dealing with the superficial on this deep psychic stuff. It seems like it’s an endless rabbit hole. Nobody wants to talk about it – among the tropes that are officially within the category of ‘most disturbed’ – many of these fall into the category of the various twists and… Read more »
@rugby11
CFNM as a male fetish has been around for quite some time, not a new development. Savage Love discusses it in 2008 as ongoing:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=615344
Happened to read that Savage Love page to the end and there’s a red pill bit of advice given to the man whose gf won’t put out: he should “surprise” her by moving out. About the workplace: at least now I understand why some women were bitchy with me in my blue pill days. So I have to reach beyond my introverted, slightly spergy self to game them a little bit. But only a little bit, don’t want to let them get too close for comfort if I like my job. I go out dancing a lot because I enjoy… Read more »
Lol… reading that stuff YaReally posted from that Sara Lau chick was like reading a mini horror novel. * note to self: Keep hands in pockets * I was watching a little bit of local news this morning while waiting for the weather forecast, and there was some woman, older woman ( turkey neck action going on ), absolutely RAILING about some college ( I think… I’ll look it up later ) for not punishing some kid for touching a girls boobs and ass. The guy was made to formally apologize so that he and the girl could remain friends… Read more »
@blax
this is the story
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3688453/Elite-boarding-school-student-track-star-bake-BREAD-apology-girl-17-sexually-assaulted-church-basement-instead-reporting-allegation-police.html
@ redlight
Bless you brother!!!
@rollo “Not all women are ‘Sugaring’, however the motives that allow for a normalization of it exist in all women – even the sweet nice ones who want to make a good impression on you.” as a divorced older guy >50yo who has engaged in this sugar biz for several years now, this is fairly insightful considering i am guessing you haven’t dabbled in the experience. similarly, i think there is much more behavioral insight to be had by doing more research into the area such as interviewing older men experienced in having sugar babies. i had tons of HDH… Read more »
@YaReally You’re really the one being antogonistic toward a few of us. Someone like me or Sentient are, for sure idealistic about the next generation of young men and women. We have skin in the game (our children) and we aren’t nihilistic about their fortunes. With effort, intelligence and consideration, nothing is impossible, while at the same time they believe that people are too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving to actually achieve those fantastic results. The trick is having a bottoms up approach. A top down approach has been proven to have never worked. Ever. You, YaReally have always had a… Read more »
@ASDGamer Pokemon Go is going to be the next big thing. It will allow virtual socialization without having to actually connect. It will be a way for those that are not social, to fake socialization. I went on a walk this evening with my wife Pokemonining. Holy shit. There were a lot a people doing IT. It will allow men to have openers on daygame Game, so don’t diminish it’s import. Single women will take up the sport to fake like they are engaging in exercise. Better to use game and roll with a meme/fad than to be unaware of… Read more »
Having been married more than twenty years I will say without reservation that if I was doing it all over again I woukd not get married but instead have a series of “arrangements”. It is much less expensive and there is actually the opportunity of having sex.
So, checking back in since my last post. No, didn’t read the comments … don’t care too after my other experiences here. I’m back to give an update. One of the things that I didn’t make clear in my last post or in any of the others is the nature of the SD-SB relationship … because it isn’t clear. Sure it involves money. And it involves sex. Guess what …. all relationships do. Usually it involves a large age difference … but what if it doesn’t ? So anyway, my SB and I were fairly close in age as far… Read more »
@All – Please pardon the nonsequitir, i’ve been very busy and cannot possibly catch up on 400+ comments. That said, I have a lot to say about this post. Re: Doug Rushkoff’s book Life Inc. – A rehash of Marxist “alienation” tropes, and trite fabulism of western imperialism as unique. Positing that the voluntary collectivism of corporations is some unforeseen force that permeates our politics and society in unique and pernicious ways can only happen by ignoring vast swaths of human history in which the forces he criticizes existed without corporations. In other word’s, his ideas are a steaming heap… Read more »
lllimitableman struck the nail on the head. Sugar Daddies are seeking a psychological experience with sugar babes. As lllimitableman pointed out, genuine desire can’t be bought. Some men need to accept certain home truths. If your smv is low, being seen with a hot piece isn’t going to raise it. A little self discovery and re-evaluation of what you actually want is require. This blog presupposes sex is forever. It isn’t. Craving something you can’t have on your terms, will lead to frustration and anger. Better to deal with the craving than to try and affect change in the object… Read more »
Re: Sugar babies – My soft sugar babying experiences were not satisfying. The Red Pill had me see how I was settling for negotiated desire. I never held the upper hand, and I didn’t get desire sex very often. That said, TRP helped me deal with them when I first encountered it. And I had some great dominant sex with them as a result occasionally. As Rocket points out, understanding female psychology and strategy is very helpful, no doubt. But in the end, settling for negotiated desire was to sell myself short. Do I believe I’m a prize, or not?… Read more »
Hooking is already dating. I’m on a date with one of my hos as we speak.
RSD put out a pokemon go video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlKlSHS56TE relating to what yareally said in a prior comment
If it flies, floats or fucks, rent it…
Don’t think many girls are using Pokemon Go with the intention of meeting new people. Wayyy too many socially awkward people playing that to allow for meaningful social interaction.
Lol. Great Joe Rogan video.
@Mean Mr. Mustard
Is this video what a Red Pill Relationship looks like?
“If it flies, floats or fucks, rent it…”
Boat noun: A hole in the water you throw money into.
Extrapolating to other kinds of holes is left as an exercise for the student.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/opinion/sunday/why-you-will-marry-the-wrong-person.html?_r=0
I’m with Ya. I work with a lot of millennials and they live in a world changing at a breakneck pace with little time or space for reflection. There was a great book on this which came out 20 years ago, Amusing Ourselves to Death. Neuroplasticity cans also be our enemy, and many of us are deeply habituated to the payoffs of video/digital interactions. If we don’t have a massive war and civilizational meltdown – which is quite likely in the next 20 years – the possibilities are mind-boggling. With VR here and cost effective, and the bio mechanics and… Read more »
eh, there’s a lot of shit that’s happening… the manosphere isn’t gonna do much against it because the manosphere can’t get its shit together first, there’s a huge reactionary contingent that sinks the movement right off the bat. second, there’s a huge ‘NO GRLS ALLOWED IN THE FORT’ contingent that refuses to concede anything positive or valid in feminism or any other non-white/non-male/whatever movement third, there’s still too much shit in ‘the red pill’ that just reinforces FI bullshit. I’m at the point where even using hierarchical status terms like alpha and beta pretty much reinforces FI — women need… Read more »
@scary
“Instead of focusing on ‘being alpha.’ there should be more of a focus on ‘being yourself’ as in: outcome independent, pursuing an individual passion/mission, and working on skills to give value.”
I agree 110%, and I’ll give further ideas when Rollo posts about Bros before homes
Yareally this is what kids are being programmed with before there’s any masculine influence in their lives till college (esp in single mother homes, and even in college they’ve become SJW beehives where the men better toe the line or face a kangaroo court firing/expulsion Not really. It is what affluent kids in left leaning families are programmed with. How about these kids, from majority single mother homes…? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e52-Vx5PMCQ Wait did that guy with the AK call out hetoronormative oppressors of women’s feelz? Oh right he did not. They were impressed with the emo kid’s poem though… pats on the… Read more »
Mod…
instead of focusing on ‘being alpha.’ there should be more of a focus on ‘being yourself’ as in: outcome independent, pursuing an individual passion/mission, and working on skills to give value. more big C cynicism….more ‘if society isn’t working for me, fuck society and ill do my own thing.’ (to which, MGTOW has the right idea on that end…)
So being Sigma…
@redlight “So if he acted chode he wouldn’t get the job?” In his view ya, or he’d get put somewhere shitty and out of sight VS given a better position. “How about when the women are handing out the choice work assignments, best to be a chode? How about promotions, best to be a chode?” No idea on the rest of this, I’d imagine there’s a lot of calibration involved depending on who your superiors/co-workers are and what your goals are. @hank holiday ““Well. . .I robbed a few banks. Stabbed a couple of people. Does that count?” “Did you… Read more »
Sometimes reality is scary or bleak, regardless of what you wish it was like. Dunno what to tell you. I’m just reporting what’s happening out there so men (and your boys and girls) can be better prepared.
You’re disingenuously “reporting” only part of “what is out there” by persistently denying contra observations though… to you, the only field is the field you wish to acknowledge… and increasingly the only narrative is the FI narrative…
His assertion that nothing has changed is silly. and you talk about nuance and reading comprehension… LOL
@sentient
And what did I just sat about using gay hierchical status terms? Lol no….not being sigma. Sigma is still tied to the same b.s. FI lexicon.
Opened an HB9 at the Apple Genius bar today, we were both waiting. I had espied her earlier briefly, headturner type. We were assigned the same table. I just made small talk and didn’t really see any way to take it further. She was also headed to work, but I opened and got a conversation going. She was maybe 21, and the type of woman I simply wouldn’t have opened up until this year. I also opened a gothy hB8 while waiting earlier, and she came from cold to warm quickly. But in her case I had a guy just… Read more »
I dunno – I always thought Sugar Daddy is just another version of Captain Save-a-Ho, by a different name (you know – a healthy dose of lying to cover up the pathetico ……. therefore more sugary sweetness to cover up the barf-factor). Gotta love dem gals – eh? To my mind a hellava lot of this is on Men – a lot of ladies don’t mind it at all if their men think they are superior to women – fyi – women don’t actually think that – but some of them will agree with a guy on that if it… Read more »
> Doesn’t really matter what their intentions are if a guy sparks attraction lol I don’t do the Pokemon thing though so I have no idea what the girls playing it are like, but a lot of the <30yo crowd did grow up with Pokemon so who knows. Well, at first most of my college friends were not playing it, but after a few days the fad has totally taken over and I think even the very popular, outgoing people who never play games are playing it now. It's basically like Instagram or Snapchat at this point, but I also… Read more »
redlight – way back in this thread you said: “as a social experiment (I like to do these) after a once-a-week sport activity with the guys, for 8 weeks instead of hanging out with them afterwards, I went alone to a semi-popular bar, where I ordered a drink, and sat on the bar stool reading a book (yes, anti-social). Never had a woman start a conversation with me, or bump into me. I’m quite resistible.” OK – given the contextual interest you otherwise were getting at the job by way of the work-related implied power dynamics at play in each… Read more »
@man
“why not go ahead and say what you were implying in the above quoted, wrt the universal nature of women’s attraction for the masculine?”
because I’m the whatever gay hierchical status term for I do what I want, or as the song I’m listening to right now goes: I’m beyond all that fuck shit
YaReally With regards to reflection, and neuroplasticity we can literally stream new dopamine-rewarding content/stimulus directly into our brains 24/7 now. Exactly. It’s like “you are what you eat” except audio/visual. Losing connectivity is something a bit scary now for a lot of people because it is so ubiquitous – most airplanes on the bigger airlines now offer some WiFi. I can throw on a YouTube playlist in the background of my day/night and literally never have a moment alone with my thoughts, Or pick a tune /artist to seed Pandora with and let someone else guide your thoughts. Hey, if… Read more »
Pokemon Go – it’s now blatant just how much technology “programs” human behavior. Think of it – hack into and hijack the human programming already running, and get that just right – and the sky might just be the limit! – Edward Bernays on acid man. But strip it all away – and what is left? Is there anything left? Agggh – my brain hurts again – too much ontological angst (and therefore too much metaphysics) man! But here is the basic question – what are you without other people? How you answer that question probably says a whole lot… Read more »
redlight – “because I’m the whatever gay hierchical status term for I do what I want, or as the song I’m listening to right now goes: I’m beyond all that fuck shit” OK – good for you. I think I more-so trust a guy predisposed as you have implied anyway (hey – like I can always count on looking towards the guy’s own self interest then, wrt knowing what to expect from such guy). But my question was …… what does the point/counterpoint of your differing experiences with women, as the power context changes, say about the universal nature of… Read more »
Re: Pickup – It’s funny, a lot of what one has to do in pickup is to be very observant. I’m observing that I don’t get a hot enough spike usually. And I’ve been pondering why – but I’ve studied enough MM and others to know. I don’t have a routine canned that really spikes and DHVs. I leave it to chance and wing it. I don’t mean for an opener, those are always done best just off the cuff. Even if you fuck it up and garble it, as long as you don’t lose your cool or frame, and… Read more »
Wow… Amy S. confessed to rape but was “exonerated” by an feminist echo chamber.
okay, put your coffee or tap whiskey down, first
okay, you were warned, here we go:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/4tbuz5/i_want_to_be_a_nun_but_im_not_sure_that_i_am_good/
At this point she isn’t even worth a ” lol “.
Told ya she was gonna fuck some dude while ” traveling ” ( if any of what the lying, simple, conceited, classist bitch even said is true. I got doubts and lots of dgaf.).
Karma can be a real motherfucker.
If this is true, good for her.
And as always, she can go fuck herself.
OK. Where’s mah coffee?
The only good thing about a Miss E post is Blaximus’s rebuttal ” … go fuck yourself”.
It’s like a catch-phrase for TRM, and I look forward to it just like enjoying the FR’s.
http://www.novascientia.net/project_images/hula-hoop%20vintage.jpg
Pokemon Go circa 1959… what goes around comes around…
I’m still learning about windows. There was one shut but then it opened later and I didn’t notice. Jewish Broad #1 rejected my dance request early. Later, Jewish Broad #2 opened me. I danced once with her, then she suggested that I dance with JB1. JB1 talked a little while we danced and made a remark about all the other boring people in the bar, implying that we were special. That was A2, I believe. I should have qualified her. Something like, “If you drop your nail file when you orgasm, I’m not interested.” lol I’d not be surprised to… Read more »
JB1…made a remark about all the other boring people in the bar
I think that JB1 actually said something like, “Most of the people here are boring as fuck.” “Fuck” was beta bait. A good response would have been, “I see you’ve been to Miss Emily’s charm school.”
Gotta break a girl’s frame and JBs have strong frames.
@ Sentient, Lol my brother. IMO, the ” games ” craze of the last 25 or so years if different than the crazes of the past. On the local news last week it was noted that a half million downloads occurred here in my state in roughly 7-10 days. Wait till the next iPhuck comes out and watch the bullshit frenzy that ensues. But more importantly, just observe what’s going on in all of larger society. Every week at my job lately, I watch as HR struggles with disciplinary actions being levelled at the throngs of mostly young workers who… Read more »
Scribblerg It’s even worse than that as I need to spike a lot of interest to push through to attraction, being older. And I have to have a big emotional impact to get there. I’m seeing the dynamic, I mess with it but am not systematic. Okay, I can spin an entire thing off of “Nobody has real conversations…”, get spooky, do some cold reading, riff on psychology – women love psychology. some thoughts from 48… age has nothing to do with it… emotional impact is good, sexual impact is better… Systematizing is good – if you have a system… Read more »
Blax – did you know that between 1958 and 1960 Whamo sold over 100 MILLION Hula Hoops?
US population was less than 200 million then….
Do you remember all the other hot toy trends….? yeah they all though they were different…. “nah man… for real IN THE FIELD this is different man!”
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Lifestyle/gty_pet_rock_150401_4x3_992.jpg
Who wants to go long on Pokemon Go…? i will take the other side of that trade all day long… LMFAO But your MySpace options will not be valued as currency… LOL
@yareally @scray Lol at the pokeman shit Was out a few days ago heard a guy say something like “mumblemuble rat attack.” and I was thinking, what? lol. There are rats around here? and then I remembered from my 1990’s pokemon days Oh. Rattata. lol. pokemon. Haven’t been able to practice much lately. Been in hurry, which messed up my mind. Found out a bit earlier on the weekends is best, around lunch time. Had been going more around 3. Still not many, and still issue of opening in public. Seen some 7/8 two sets, but always going in opposite… Read more »
MySpace R I P “Myspace was acquired by News Corporation in July 2005 for $580 million.[7] From 2005 to 2008, Myspace was the largest social networking site in the world, and in June 2006 surpassed Google as the most visited website in the United States.[8][9] In April 2008, Myspace was overtaken by Facebook in the number of unique worldwide visitors, and was surpassed in the number of unique U.S. visitors in May 2009,[10] though Myspace generated $800 million in revenue during the 2008 fiscal year.[11] Since then, the number of Myspace users has declined steadily in spite of several redesigns.[12]… Read more »
@sentient Who wants to go long on Pokemon Go…? i will take the other side of that trade all day long… LMFAO But your MySpace options will not be valued as currency… LOL “Ah, you look like one of those hula hoop girls.” “I bet you’ve got one of those pet rocks in your purse, don’t you?” “You’re catching pokemon on your phone, right?” Lol, no trend lasts forever. But you can still exploit it for easy openers while it lasts. And when that trend passes, and then next one pops up, you can easily switch your opener to suit… Read more »
Hank “and that’s it. Why WOULDN’T you use that. Lol, its so easy”
Not remotely the point….
Go forth use whatever you need to use to open… cool.
just don’t believe the hype behind it… 😉
PS – it is gay though LOL…
And to clarify for that 5 white at the restaurant, what I meant by keep opening was that after I open, if it ends or doesn’t really go anywhere, I don’t reengage. So the thing with this girl is that I just kept opening her when I went past her. And I was surprised that it really didn’t affect things all that much. Now, doing one of those “Ohh, so you’re one of THOSE girls” bits right off the bit would have been much better, OFC, but part of the thing I learned today is that you can rengage later… Read more »
@sentient
Go forth use whatever you need to use to open… cool.
just don’t believe the hype behind it… 😉
PS – it is gay though LOL…
oh, okay. lol, then we are on the same page then
“That’s an issue I have been having of not going back to a girl to give it a second shot, or of seeing a girl I have already written off (because in my mind I think I am done for the day).
So in this instance at least, reopening once — twice — didn’t really make that much of a difference.”
Yeah… if you push each set to the limit and not stair step things, you will discover much more, faster…
Hank
“Its literally just — see a girl on her phone, then say
“You catching pokemon?”
and thats it. Why WOULDN’T you use that. Lol, its so easy.”
A point to consider… this is an easy open but does not sexualize… I’ve had good success with Phone Destroyer lines like “swiping left a lot huh…?” etc.
@scribblerg But I’m also opening women in lots of situations where I can’t isolate, or better said, I haven’t figured out how to isolate. I’m also not getting real attraction from the super hotties, but rather a nice, fun vibe,. Some flushing and wide, sparkly eyes but not much more than that. nah bro, that’s it. you are getting attraction from them, it’s just subtle and less “obvious” than you’re used to. you’ll also notice that the windows of opportunity to escalate are narrower and the margin for error is smaller, too. i mean, once you start getting to insane… Read more »
@hank Went to eat after work. 5 white. Not thrilled to open, also hadn’t eaten all day. Did the pokemon thing. k dude, well you’re in a shitty situ so you need to realize that these 5’s that you’re unenthused about MAY have friends who are hotter, and so it may be a good idea to BEFRIEND them and hang out with them and their friends Now, the issue with these is the momentum. the main issue is the situ here. you’re stuck in some sorta island of 5-6’s and so you can’t really test YOUR GAME. So for me,… Read more »
“Who wants to go long on Pokemon Go…? i will take the other side of that trade all day long… LMFAO But your MySpace options will not be valued as currency… LOL” Funny you mention that. I was going to buy 100 shares of the ADR’s of Nintendo tomorrow morning before or after a dentists routine teeth cleaning and work. (Options are not available.) Shit I’ll go long as long as I can read a breakout gap in stock price, another continuation gap in the middle and and exhaustion gap at the end of a technical analysis of the stock… Read more »
@hank
yeah once you start linking these routines and seeing the roads and how to just build your value like this —>
you’ll actually start to feel super entitled because of how powerful it is.
like, I really don’t even do a lot of roleplay or cold read stuff until A3-C1 these days because that’s shit I only provide for people who are cool.
i mean sometimes i get a turbo hottie and i’m looking schlubby as fuck so i have to turn on the afterburners to make it happen but i digress….
@SJF It’s about being multidimensional, using kinship altruism to actual advantage (where it belongs–in the family). Having an F. Roger Devlin sense of old style community where is exists (Mid-West UMC). idk, how about just using “whoever brings value to me I will give value to in return (excepting direct descendants, altho not really because they bring you survival value lol)” if my ‘kin’ bring value, great, i give it back. if they don’t, they can fuck off. lol old style community? why don’t i make my own community? why don’t i just go out and find my OWN tribe?… Read more »
“idk, how about just using “whoever brings value to me I will give value to in return (excepting direct descendants, altho not really because they bring you survival value lol)” if my ‘kin’ bring value, great, i give it back. if they don’t, they can fuck off. lol old style community?” Cough, Cough, yeah Fake altruism. Altruism works in real tribes (military and kinship and Old School American Indians on the frontier). In nightclubs? good luck with that. “why don’t i make my own community? why don’t i just go out and find my OWN tribe? my own group who… Read more »
Small FR: Saturday night I went to a new zone with lots of bars and restaurants. Decided to go there instead to the clubs I’m used to, really nervous. I ended up in 3 places. One was a restaurant-bar, it was not very active place so I headed out and went to another bar. That bar is smaller and quieter, also there were not many people in there. I went to the bar counter and I ordered a couple of beers and after drinking them discovered that I can’t hold my liquor very well. While I was drinking, I ended… Read more »
Guess I’m done here … again. Yeah … Ya-Really … ya, really … you’re a fucking asshole. How about this dude, you grow some balls and meet some real women in real life, instead of being some interwebz-pseudo-god … IN YOUR MIND ONLY. Yeah, you’re probably some fucking overweight fat-fuck loser … living in your mom’s basement … BUT AN INTERNET STAR …. WHEN IT COMES TO DEALING WITH WOMEN !!! You’re a GOD !!! In your own mind !!! Yeah, real men pick up on that shit and realize you’re a fucking turd. So please shut the fuck up… Read more »
@Sentient “It is what affluent kids in left leaning families are programmed with. How about these kids, from majority single mother homes…?” So we’ve got single moms producing either poem boys or gangsters. Not sure what your point is. When do any of these guys start being the excellent well-raised well-grounded men you’re saying they all are? Is that video your example of well-raised kids who are resisting society’s negative/self-destructive influences? Do you even know what your own point is anymore? “Culture within a tribe is stronger than the propaganda…” …do you think society isn’t also pushing the “thug life”… Read more »
I’m impressed with how much time and effort you’ve invested in this article, when all any man needs to know about women is they don’t give a shit about men, only care how they can personally profit from men’s pain, hard work and self-sacrifice. Why do you look any deeper than the cold ugly truth? Grow some balls Rollo and just tell it like it is. Women care first and foremost about WOMEN and girls’ needs and their own selfish entertainment and pleasure. But I’m sure that’s men’s fault. Second, they *maybe* care about their kids. When they’re not murdering… Read more »
@4realbro, I take it this is the only post you’ve ever read on TRM. Do your homework before you pop off, you’ll look much less foolish.
@yareally “Ya, I’ve had social circles of guys like that. I’ve hung with guys who do manly as fuck hobbies that make me look like a huge vagina. But 90% have chode internals and Blue Pill FI-based mindsets where they plan to marry a NAWALT unicorn and live happily ever after.” and they will get married, and have kids, and divorce rape. That’s nothing new. According to ya, what has now changed for these guys, do you think they are no longer getting pussy? Do you think they are no longer having girlfriends? Do you think they are no longer… Read more »
@Anonymous Reader “Losing connectivity is something a bit scary now for a lot of people because it is so ubiquitous” Try getting a group of 20-somethings to all go out on a Friday night with no phones and watch the mindfuck resistance that goes through their brains lol It’s funny because when I STARTED sarging everyone would go out without that shit. It’s changed game dynamics…if you could isolate a girl in the Mystery Method days, she would maybe do one lap to look for her friends to say goodbye and then just assume they all went home. Now she’ll… Read more »
@Sentient @Blaximus @SJF This chick has 1.5 million subscribers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77lPjNhL5X4&t=3m This dude has something like 5 million subscribers across his various channels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAaDqhKXby8 This is my competition for college chicks, I see tons of guys like this in the kiddie bars any given night, and this is the type of guys surrounding the average middle to upper-class teenagers/adults: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J2nVQpjIyE Remember reading comic books as a kid? Those strong masculine male role models in there, teaching you how to be a manly hero? http://imgur.com/rnFASzz http://i.imgur.com/hXyQRzd.jpg http://imgur.com/a/Adnid http://i.imgur.com/p00L2gp.jpg http://www.mtv.com/news/2423809/faith-valiant-plus-size-superhero/ I wouldn’t watch/read any of this shit…but I’m Red Pill. Some 8yo kid… Read more »
In mod for too many links again lol save me Rollo!
Ouch. Lot’s of butt-hurt aspiring Alphas I presume. Reality check: for thousands of years men have provided women with material things in exchange for that one immaterial thing women are experts at providing. And we all know what that is. Ultimately, men seek love and women seek power (because we’re all attracted that which we lack). Do the butt-hurt “Alphas” really believe that having money, enough to afford a mistress automatically put’s you in the Beta camp? Say yes, yes, yes, repeatedly (maybe it will come true) and I’ll show you a rationalization hamster called, “lil Chad”. Women get turned… Read more »
@Digireaper – props on getting out there and practicing dude. Even if we don’t always reply, all the guys here are reading your FRs and we’ll chime in and help when we can (you too @hank – I think you’re getting great advice from Scray and YaReally for now). Digireaper – for now can I suggest adding a little more structure? Look at YaReally’s newbie guide posts (easily findable on his archive) and just memorize a single stack of routines (like the ones Hank has been posting but really you can just copy any of the old ones from the… Read more »
Oh and PS – Blitz Week begins in a few days. I have a social circle event later in the week where I know the social circle HB7 I mentioned before (the one who tells me about her BJ technique and grabbed me and kissed me after a previous party etc) will be there. As before, I don’t want hassle in my social circle, so I won’t pull her even though I know I probably can. Also there’s a chance that ANOTHER HB7 from our social circle, who also used to have a crush on me back when I was… Read more »
The rage at Emily on display here is interesting. Me? I take her at face value. She’s trying to become a better person and is struggling. She’s trying to develop a spiritual focus in her life. She’s falling short of her ideals – what, none of us fall short? @Emily – On becoming a Nun. When deepening one’s spiritual commitment and practice sincerely, it’s not uncommon to want to become a Nun or a monk or priest etc. It can be a phase. But my guess is that you may be pursuing this idea as a way of escaping “the… Read more »
@Rocket – Lol, you are a fucking joke and don’t even know it. You fuck whores – anyone can do that. It takes no game. You have nothing worth sharing, yet you seem to miss that. You are also deluded about the nature of your relationships with your SBs.
Get back to us when you can actually get a woman interested in fucking you cuz she wants to fuck you. Where you are the prize. When you aren’t negotiating desire. Otherwise, don’t let the door hit you in the ass.
“If we had known . . .”
But you didn’t.
” . . . makes perfect sense through . . .”
. . . hindsight.
Predicting the past is a difficult enough undertaking. Predicting the future rather more so.
“I’d tell you but you’ll cry about how I’m being nihilistic . . .”
The Middle East/Balkans type clusterfuck going global. WWIII as a gazillion, simultaneous small wars, although following a collective theme.
But that’s just a prediction, about the future.