About three weeks ago I was made aware of an article on the New Republic blog called Bros Before Homes and a few of my followers on Twitter asked me for my take on it then. I did feel it merited more than 140 characters so I figured I’d build a post on it. Honestly, I had more than a couple irons in the fire for blog posts ahead of this, but in hindsight now I’m glad I waited a bit before digging too far in.
I am going to riff on it here, but before I do I’d like to point out that my posting Sugar Babies, before this post was a strategic decision on my part. You’ll understand why a bit later, but keep in mind the general premise of that post – women’s commodification of intimacy dynamic – and the priority of self-importance women place on themselves with regards to what men must pay for and why women believe they’re worth men’s having to pay for it.
I’m asking readers to keep this in mind because Bros Before Homes will contrast starkly next to Sugar Babies.
From the tone of the article you probably won’t need to look up Phoebe Maltz Bovy‘s portfolio to understand her clichéd feminist bias. It’s all of the self-importance and the prerequisite solipsism you’d expect from ‘journalists’ of her stripe, but try to read past the snark she thinks is interesting. Her sarcasm only highlights women’s duplicity with regards to men freeing themselves from the Feminine Imperative and women commodifying their intimate interests in ‘acceptable’ men.
The gist of Bovy’s fabricated angst is how offensively sexist it is for men to prioritize life experience, exploration, self-betterment, hobbies and the virtue signaling she sees inherent in men when they actually go their own way. Men cutting themselves free from the expectations of the Feminine Imperative and a feminine-primary social order always imply the threat of them coming to realize their own value.
It’s also that the very idea of experiences mattering more than things is a way of valorizing the stereotypically masculine. “While men are conditioned to dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas and long nights of hilarity—women are now encouraged to find deep fulfilment in staying home to origami our pants,” she wrote.
Whether women are being encouraged to rid our homes of useless belongings, or urged to shop for new ones, the result is the same: Society continues to associate women with the home and the material, men with the outside and experiences. While the enjoyment of domestic life, of stuff, isn’t inherently negative, it is dismissed precisely because of its associations with the feminine. An orientation towards stuff over experiences, moreover, gets cast either as recklessly materialist or, as Tony perceives it, an impediment to enjoying life. The only constant is that what women prefer, or are imagined to prefer, is thought inferior.
[…]We’re meant to admire the experience-lovers for their indifference to stuff, which implies they’ve got their priorities straight: to live life to the fullest. It’s no coincidence, though, that these experience-lovers are so often male, as it’s a stereotypically male aspiration not to be “tied down”—that is, not to have domestic responsibilities. But these men do have roofs over their heads. The bourgeois life they’re rejecting is simply one they’ve outsourced. After all, Tony hasn’t rejected the material life. He’s just got a woman—his mother—tidying up after him.
Bovy’s presumptions here smack of her reaching for some way to denigrate men’s pragmatically eschewing materialism or being tethered to what would otherwise be considered “grown up” responsibilities and looking for something more personally meaningful for themselves. As with all femosphere journalists you get a bonus 10% on your women’s studies essays if you can find a way to sneak the word’s “sexism” or “misogyny” in a piece.
Bros Before Homes is really nothing novel in the manosphere. MGTOWs have been advocating this reward-for-independence from women for as long as there’s been a movement. What is novel is that this return to a man being his own mental point of origin and prioritizing life experiences as his first priority is a result of an awareness that’s now filtering into the mainstream. It’s very easy to criticize men for being juvenile about foregoing what popular culture would have us believe is preparing ourselves for adulthood, but when this new idealism affects the men women hope will be well-positioned Betas when they’ve reached the end of their Party Years, then there’s cause for concern.
As a side note here, I should also say that it’s interesting to see how fluidly the progress of feminism comes full circle in Bovy’s thought process. She uses the same ambiguous tropes of a regressive society expecting women to resign themselves to domesticity and tidying up after men as if 60+ years of Fempowerment “leveling the playing field” never occurred. This is the same, very tired, cover story that second wave feminism used in the sixties.
The underlying irritation here is that men’s new prioritizing of experiences above materialism is a thorn in the side of women who’ve been given carte blanche to their Hypergamous whims. Bovy cries sexism because she presumes men are unable to engage in all this experience seeking without a support team of mothers and house-bound women, but what really makes her sore is that men doing the seeking reminds women of their natural predilection for materialism and the base of opportunism their concept of love is founded upon.
Bovy’s first mistake is that she’s statistically inaccurate.
The Blue Pill conditioning of the past 60 years has done everything but teach men to “dream big—to see their happiness in terms of adventure and travel, sex and ideas”. That particular conditioning is reserved for women playing along with the Eat, Pray, Love narrative. If anything it’s just the opposite. From education to family to church, men are conditioned for servile Beta-hood and lambasted for not ‘Manning Up’ and being supportive of women’s empowerment at the cost of their own. Conversely, women and womankind have been lifted to unrealistic idealism in pursuing their own interests at the cost of childbearing and monogamous domesticity. Apparently, Bovy’s never read Lean In or even watched a Disney princess movie in the last 50 years.
Off the Reservation
What worries women is that all the Blue Pill conditioning men have endured for the past several decades might be undone if men were to actually make themselves their mental point of origin. What worries the representatives of the Feminine Imperative is that Betas might see the pragmatism in following the example of men who put themselves first. Men who eschew the trappings of building their lives around the materialism women seek when their looks fade and their need for men’s resource security is a better prospect than having to compete for men with their sisters. When marriage is an easily recognizable sucker’s bet to the point that even Betas can see the sense in avoiding it, that’s when the Feminine Imperative must shift to a new tactic.
Open Hypergamy makes for aware Betas. Men aware of the game they are expected to play must either tamp that understanding down into denial or they simply refuse to play. That refusal can come in many examples, but the reasoning is the same. The deductive, pragmatic response is for men to go their own way and put themselves at the beginning of their thought processes and goals.
The success of women’s sexual strategy depends on ignorant Betas being prepared to meet (or wait for them) at the time at which their need for security is the greatest. This expectation of Betas in Waiting is part of a Hypergamous plan; it is the consolidation of an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks prioritization (also known as the Sandberg Plan). Bros Before Homes is an offense to this plan.
This then becomes a paradox for the Feminine Imperative. A man’s life experiences are generally a wellspring of attraction if not arousal for a woman. Experience is the source of a genuine Amused Mastery and a man’s self-serving experience is usually a prime indicator of an Alpha mindset. My Red Pill brother Goldmund is a perfect example of how personal, self-asserted, self-initiated experiences can be parlayed into a very effective Game.
Be that as it is, the proposition of any and every Beta going MGTOW in various ways, hitting the open road and regaling women with the stories of their exploits presents a problem to Hypergamy; Hypergamy wants certainty and a well-traveled Beta is still a Beta. Furthermore, living for the experiential implies less investment in Beta men developing skills, status, affluence and the personal equity that make them good prospects for Beta providership when they reach the critical age at which women need their cooperation in fulfilling their Hypergamy. At least, that’s the implied concern for women. Men with a sense to educate themselves from experience are usually all the better for it – even when that experience is a nightmare.
I should add here that prioritizing experience above other consideration needn’t be limited to Bovy’s silly impressions of Jack Kerouac’s On the Road. What concerns the feminine is that men would devote the lion’s share of their personal efforts on anything unrelated to meeting women’s future or present security needs. It’s not just men wanting to scale Mount Vesuvius, it’s men having any self-import at the expense of women. When men’s ambitions are centered on satisfying themselves and not about developing equity that’s useful to women, that’s when those men (and those who would encourage it) are shamed for not being an adult. They are shamed for not manning up or growing up to meet the needs of women and thus not living up to “adult responsibilities”.
Responsible Adults
It’s not an accident that society conflates men’s servitude with qualities of adulthood – it’s the design.
As such, women begin to get nervous that their future provisioning and security are their own responsibility. How those needs are met are a discussion for various other threads I’ve written, but the social expectations of men qualifying for ‘manhood’ by assisting women to fulfill their own Hypergamous imperatives are at the root of the “sexist” accusations on Bovy’s part. To her, it’s sexist not to plan one’s life according to women’s ‘correct’ sexual strategy.
Bovy actually shares a lot with contemporary Christianity. Ensaturated by feminine primacy, the modern church has made efforts to convince men that their servitude to women is both an article of faith and a prerequisite for responsible adulthood. In a reversal of traditional faith, men aren’t men until they’ve established themselves as being capable of providing for both themselves, but for women as well. Any man shirking this is shamed for “prolonging is adolescence”. All life priority and preparation is presumed to revolve around supporting a future wife irrespective of her own decisions and the results that come from them. The contemporary church is a Beta production institution as it is, but it’s interesting to see how both Bovy and modern Christianity align on the position of men’s proper roles.
This is an interesting parallel when you consider the lengths to which women have gone to emancipate themselves from (ostensibly) being dependent upon men’s influence and provisioning. Western culture has evolved around the strong independent woman stereotype, yet it’s sexist for men to emancipate themselves from the worst of women’s sexual strategy. Bovy’s perspective relies heavily on the Old Books rules set in the misguided belief that women are still beholden to roles of domesticity and repression in an era of triumphantly embraced Open Hypergamy.
Materialism
As I mentioned in the opening, it’s important that we contrast this concern for Betas leaving the plantation with the blatant soft prostitution of the Sugar Babies dynamic. In the light of women’s naked opportunism, and with that opportunism’s materialistic purpose, it’s easy to see how patently false Bovy’s premise is here.
In an era where we develop successful apps to aid women in setting their price on a basic date, it’s easy to recognize Bovy’s disingenuousness. MGTOW and its Red Pill aware derivatives are really just practical, logical responses of men protecting themselves from an Open Hypergamy women are all too ready to educate them about. The End of Men is also the eventual end of women’s expectations of long term provisioning. If Bros aren’t interested in homes the old social contract is put in jeopardy and Open Hypergamy only serves to expedite this shift. Women at the Epiphany Phase looking for the “equal partner” that Sheryl Sandberg assures her sisters will be waiting for them find that men have declined to play along.
The old joke is that if women would have sex in a cardboard box men would never buy a house. The joke’s played out now because women are happy to fuck an Alpha in much less, and now they’re proud enough to tell Betas all about it.
Hoo, lots of stuff here! Not sure how much I’m gonna be able to write as ol’ FWB girl is texting me about her current body positions and lack of alcoholic beverages. @Andy I’m loving hearing what you’re writing. The thing that really seems to need to ‘click’ for a guy before his sex life gets in order is the realization of just how sexual women are in spite of the appearances they studiously put off. It’s a necessary thing for them; any halfway decent-looking girl will get fucking PILED ON by men if they betray the slightest hint of… Read more »
Just for Game reference, NBTM’s post basically said that this girl isn’t chasing Sun so she’s probably not gonna bang him. It’s true that a woman who really wants you will chase hardcore. But it’s kind of ridiculous to say that you can’t get laid if you don’t have her doing that after the initial approach. Day 2’s exist for a reason. Developing the level of A1-C3 needed to get a girl chasing YOU generally takes a bit of time. If you’ve only ever banged co-workers or social circle girls, it can LOOK like they just randomly hook on you… Read more »
The stages of game:
‘SHE wants to… fuck me?” – puzzled/concerned face
“She wants to fuck ME!” – jubilant face
“She wants to fuck me.” – Yawn… shoulder shrug face
Just takes being honest about the nature of men and women.”
Yessir!! That’s what I’m talking about for sure. But Wait!!! It gets even easier and better over time.
You’re reaping the benefits of desire.
A wise-ish man once said honesty was such a lonely word, that everyone was so untrue…
That guy incidentally banged out this girl for 10 years…
Reaping the benefits of authenticity is more like it. Why are we here? Why does P fit in V?
@SJF – This “Not that I loved SJF less, but that I loved hot young PUA pussy more.” Ding, ding, ding. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. I’m not angry at anybody here, just looking for what actually makes a difference in a very busy life. I’ve also evolved a lot and time spent her contemplating the secrets of the universe is less interesting to me. I also was struck by something YaReally said not too long after he showed up here. And before I go on, let’s be honest – Ya’s presence (and others) here was and continues to be a… Read more »
@ Sentient
Meh. Who wants to have sex with the same woman, especially when she gets old?
http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2015104/rs_634x1024-151104063734-634.Christie-Brinkley-NYC-JR-110415.jpg
62 years of age.
Blax…
Yeah she is a freak for sure, no doubt had work but still. That’s an attractive women yet. She will never be hotter than her younger self, but there is no universal golden age… apples all ripen at different times. If you dig it… dig it out…
http://a2.files.fashionista.com/image/upload/c_fit,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,h_1200,q_80,w_1200/MTI1NDM4NDYyMzkxMjYwNDM0.jpg
Apples also don’t fall far from trees… so LOOK AT THE MOTHER before you have kids…
With no other information my assumption is that if a girl tells you she can’t hook up on the weekend and schedules for midweek it means that she has to get the boyfriend out of the way to bang you.
But maybe that’s just me.
Ding ding ding. As I get closer to fucking this chick, my bad internals are resurfacing. Got it, dealt with. Abundance mentality is the cure. Gonna go out and game tonight just to forget her. Still a sucker for romance, damn.
The onion continues to peel…
Christie Brinkley and Barbara Eden are true freaks of nature that do not represent womankind.
Liv Tyler’s mom then:
http://cde.peru.com/ima/0/0/8/9/0/890495/628×353/groupies.jpg
Liv Tyler’s mom now:
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Bebe+Buell+Arrivals+Lunchbox+Fund+Fall+Fete+FNNA3lPH_t3l.jpg
@ scrib I thought you weren’t gonna speak to me? I really ( honestly, no bullshit ) would love to engage you wrt your questions for me, but you seem to already have your opinion carved in granite regarding me. You take the facts of my life that I attempt to share, and those things seem to make you lash out and call bullshit. I never said I was super in any way. I have shared my fuck ups here. I don’t see myself as some superior person or whatever. I don’t * think * I come off that way.… Read more »
@ kfg
Barbara Eden and Jane Fonda were the first ( celebrity type ) chicks that I had crushes on. Especially Barbara Eden.
I got the hots for Jane when I watched Barefoot in the Park, then it got cemented when my dad took me to the drive in to see Barbarella and Jane was floating around nude in the opening scene.
But Eden will always be ” hot-ish ” to me. Bless her genes.
Toss in Elizabeth Montgomery…
@Forge Yeah, as YaReally has been noting one what I’ve been saying, most of what I’m doing is “solid”. It’s not amazing, it’s not “OMG THEY’RE TOSSING THEIR PANTIES AT YOU WITHIN 30 SECONDS!” awesome, but it’s solid and working which is better than I had before. It’s also just a lot harder to run that kind of game on somebody who only speaks my language as a second language. You kind of have to feel them out a bit more. I can tell from the reactions that I’ve been getting though that the lay is all but in the… Read more »
@ scrib Oh yeah, I forgot to add. You know how you say that you had to break free of social conditioning? And how you didn’t feel deserving of women and stuff like that? I can understand what you say when you describe those things, but I’ve never had to go through any of that at all in life. My social conditioning was much, much different than your experiences. And as far as my not knowing ” game “…lol, that shows me that you really, really don’t get where I’m coming from at all, and there’s nothing wrong with that,… Read more »
I found it interesting that this post on r/TheRedPill is currently 86% upvoted:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4uuyqw/when_we_stop_chasing_status_we_begin_to_live_by/
@YaReally – thanks dude. Another FR coming up from tonight’s solo trip through the hotel bars et al. Will keep entitlement points in mind. @Sentient – yeah, I know I’ve heard you (and others) post about DPA and MPO and all that, but just repeating this solo sarging every single day as I’ve been doing (even if it’s not THAT many openers) somehow is really helping stuff sink in – the consistency is a big help because each day is marginally better, but this stuff adds up. I’m going to start focussing on my energy level and projecting as a… Read more »
@ Culum Hey man. The day we were gonna meet up, the police shooting in Dallas happened. Joe was with his family members who are also police. We did get together, but it was more like him and I and 6 cops at a restaurant. We talked about a lot of stuff for hours and hours, but I didn’t get to talk to Joe 1 on 1 about the stuff I wanted to. I didn’t post an FR about it, because the topic ( police brutality and protesters etc. etc ) was too far off topic. As soon as our… Read more »
Lol@Blax. @Scribblerg – dude, after all this build up you have to give us an update about how it goes tomorrow night. Also for god’s sake, don’t do a “hot and heavy” makeout session if you want to avoid triggering ASD for Sunday. “Hot and heavy makeout sessions” are exactly what DOES trigger ASD (ask me how I know lol). I mean, obviously anything is possible and you may not trigger ASD after a heavy makeout if she wants to bang you badly enough, but it’s a huge risk. Think more “light, romantic kisses” and you pull away first. No… Read more »
@Scrib “You, SJF, now claim you were running some kind of gambit, which I don’t believe for a second but if it were true, well that’s even fucking worse.” Lol. You are correct. I was just trying to deflect the animosity of YaReally’s drunken ramblings. I was being a congruent (with who I am)–a judgmental dick. The best thing you ever did and the best thing guys ever do in a tribe is push back against other guys. Especially online. That is healthy masculine behavior. Fencing. Intellectual debate. It is built into our DNA. Sure it is uncomfortable. What’s the… Read more »
“….my assumption is that if a girl tells you she can’t hook up on the weekend and schedules for midweek it means that she has to get the boyfriend out of the way to bang you.”
Hah, can’t believe I didn’t think of that. kfg’s eagle eye ftw.
Latest FWB only came over on weekdays once she started seeing the old BF
YaReally Sentient and PUA gang Wednesday night brief FR – was in suit already so hit up a bunch of hotel bars and did some night street game plus did brief recon and opens in lots of other mid market bars. Started a bit later in the evening and the hotel bars were way quieter than before – think 930 is a bit too late for them – 630-830 is more like peak time for the fancy hotel after work crowd on a Wednesday (think Sentient posted something along those lines a while ago). More of the same, more openers,… Read more »
@Culum Good work. It’s now time to get more numbers. Number close Uber girl… “Oh…an Uber….punch in your number so I know you’re not kidnapped…”
You want to start “pipelining” these girls. Start working on qualifying those girls: “If insanity doesn’t run in your family, we could meet up for drinks…”
See her reaction. Then number close.
I read up on the boyfriends destroyers. But unless I misunderstood most of them seemed focused on getting her to substitute her boyfriend for you, instead of putting yourself in the Lover category while he stays in the Provider category. I dont think I would mind that actually (though right now I should be getting more experience), but yareally says I should not be a possible substitute in her mind right now, just a Lover. If anyone could also elaborate on the psychology of it (I mean, why does a girl with a boyfriend goes on a date with you,… Read more »
@ranger
see
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/i-have-a-boyfriend-responses/
Some are quite fun
Her: IHAB
You: My place
Her: IHAB
You: I have a goldfish
Her: What?
You: I though we were talking about shit that doesn’t matter
@yareally “Soon as you open the door look her in the eyes, then scan her down and up like she’s a piece of meat sexual object, back to the eyes, pull her in by the hand, pin her against the wall” Done deal. She came in at 5:00 and we managed to have supper at 7:00 🙂 I have to admit though she was fully into having sex before eating anyways. Recently went through SGM so that was some help… One odd thing about my age (57) I can’t seem to bust my nuts recently but I can stay hard.… Read more »
@Forge “Men are eagle-eyed when it comes to sighting sexual proceptivity.” They’re all sexually proceptive. ” It’s like a conversation; follow the threads that present themselves, don’t plan things beforehand and get frustrated if it doesn’t go as planned.” lol, funny story. The other day wife was reading a book, and I just walked over and pulled it out, floppy style, and looked at her. She was like “there is nothing attractive about that at all.” I just stood there. I don’t remember what was said after that, but it was shit test, shit test, shit test, I said something… Read more »
@Ranger, read it again. Like most of game reading, sometimes a few passes are necessary to fully take in the message. That boyfriend destroyer is meant to show how needy the boyfriend is and how non-judgemental and experienced you are in comparison.
Of course, the fact that it is an LDR makes him the very definition of unnatainable and unreachable, which in a way works against me. But just agreeing to an LDR makes him a chode (Ive been there, and also just re-read Rollo’s post on LDRs). So maybe try to subtly point that out.
Ranger If anyone could also elaborate on the psychology of it (I mean, why does a girl with a boyfriend goes on a date with you, accepts kino, even clearly sensual kino, but still pulls out in the end saying “I told you I had a boyfriend”). Because she can’t tell what you are, and women monkey branch. Increase your attraction and sexualization and decrease your rom-com hand holding in the park experiences. Alpha or Beta? You may bang her either way, but different approaches and results. Is it just the attention she’s getting? Is it just attention you’re giving?… Read more »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8teRxOSNHs
Amy Schumer is a disgusting POS… this is on point though…
@ranger
“Of course, the fact that it is an LDR makes him the very definition of unnatainable and unreachable, which in a way works against me. But just agreeing to an LDR makes him a chode (Ive been there, and also just re-read Rollo’s post on LDRs). So maybe try to subtly point that out.”
You are not trying to destroy the boyfriend, you are getting her to destroy the boyfriend.
Redlight
“You are not trying to destroy the boyfriend, you are getting her to destroy the boyfriend.”
There is no boyfriend, you are getting her to feel your attractive qualities, amplified against what she feels in him is unattractive… He is a strawman.
Unless you want to be replaced as the boyfriend… Monkey branched.
@sentient
there’s no boyfriend in “boyfriend destroyer” unless I want to be the boyfriend? Try again
There’s a new phrase in r/DeadBedrooms that is becoming popular, google finds no previous use
she’s showing you who she really is, pay the fuck attention
notice how useful it is in all sorts of circumstances
“let him have his confidence boost. Delusional confidence isn’t about what’s real or not and the Chadly pimp hand guys have delusional confidence. Andy needs some of that himself and his wife and kids need him to have it.” lies must die here. this is why: “lol, funny story. The other day wife was reading a book, and I just walked over and pulled it out, floppy style, and looked at her. She was like “there is nothing attractive about that at all.” I just stood there. I don’t remember what was said after that, but it was shit test,… Read more »
“Andy is not getting his wife’s best. just imagine all those fantasies rolling around in her head that don’t include him. awalt.”
Jesus Christ. Simmer down Mr. Ultimate Badass of the Universe Fleezer, all women bow before down before his massive 14″ cock. I’ve only started making my way to the deeper aspect. Give me a few weeks at least you fucking douche.
“Give me a few weeks at least you fucking douche.”
you didn’t come here to be coddled.
your situation is relevant to so many guys. if you can turn it around and get what you want, you will be a role model to follow for years to come.
everyone is in your corner. even the fucking douches like me.
@fleezer.
lol, thanks man.
Wild Man – because she is a Marxist, feminist equalist cunt that is poisoning the well of Western humanity. Because she is crass, classless and lacking in all the feminine virtues.
And mostly because she is ugly as fuck.
Redlight there’s no boyfriend in “boyfriend destroyer” unless I want to be the boyfriend? Try again The point is you are not destroying the actual flesh and blood boyfriend, you are setting up a strawman of all the things she is feeling unfulfilled in her life using the “boyfriend’ as a foil. It’s not what he is actually doing or saying or their relationship etc. None of the foil you are setting up need be remotely true, you are tapping into whatever emotional zone she is missing and filling it with feelings from you. So he is never leaving in… Read more »
Quote from someone else( a woman) when you Google why guys hate Amy: “Maybe guys dismiss Schumer because, deep down, they’re frightened that she is every girl’s unfiltered, honest self (which is 99 percent true).”
And she’s comfortable with literally making herself more unattractive and feminine than she could be. In other words, she is mocking men with her style. She is an affront to the masculine imperative.
http://celebfresh.co.uk/images_cf/536289_re_amy-schumer-serves-up-aces-in-classic-high-school-volleyball-recruiting-video.jpg
Always ugly… ugly can compensate – to a degree – by embracing feminine virtues… she’s chosen the other path, inner and outer ugly is a bad combo.
The Man The more the rapidly changing new world disorder (The Matrix) makes the game stacked against a man’s sexual strategy, the more you need the red pill and to operate in an amoral fashion with regard to game. Machiavellianism is a praxeology. Morality is relative and it is an ideology. Stop trying to advance your egalitarian agenda here. No one here is buying it. If you want to advance your Game, look to men that are successful at that game–guys like Fleezer. You don’t have to operate like him–you can write your own script–, but you should understand that… Read more »
Most of comedy is anger, whether self directed or at a group. Punchline…
Truly hot women are rarely very funny… because they don’t have the motivation.
“I find that sentiment funny as fuck – it amuses me alot cause then I get to start wondering what the heck is going on in the head of the person saying this stuff – like what people find disgusting says a huge bunch about them” What the heck goes on in a males mind when he says these things is he is not willing to settle for less than excellent or even less than good or adequate. That is an alpha male Game virtue: not settling in his sexual strategy. Amy Shumer’s style advocates for the Feminine Imperative’s strategy… Read more »
@sentient Let me cut n paste std bf destroyer, and reflect on yours (btw yes to married women question) 1) When BFdestroying you walk a tightrope between evoking too many bad feelings and having them anchoured to you, and getting the chick to want to dump her BF. Don’t forget that your end goal is to f-close, not to break her up for some other dude to enjoy. 2) It is preferable that you don’t make it appear that you want her to dump her boyfriend. Rather, make the idea appear to be something from within her (more of a… Read more »
Before I knew what BF Destroyer was I accidentally ran some crap versions. Once I was with a stripper in the private area, and we got talking, and I tried to positively spin her BF’s actions, which didn’t seem to work for her, and I encouraged her to pursue her passions. Two weeks later in the newspaper is her story how she left her pimp, and I couldn’t go back there just in case.
“– this is not going to end with me and her together in the sack anyway . . .” Of course not. That would disrespect m’lady. ” . . . you can’t be a superior man among men . . .” . . . without comparison to them. Sunspots are glowing white hot, but they appear black, because they aren’t as hot as the background. “What I am saying here doesn’t align with some of Tyler’s view on secret society.” You are not Chinese. “I much much prefer win/win, and I like to try to foster conditions where that may… Read more »
@wild man
If you want to go on with that virtue signalling you should do it in a place where most or any in the group actually count those things as virtues. Like Church on Sunday.
They are fine as far as your virtues compel you but this isn’t the appropriate audience.
Law #38
@Rollo
Obviously you can do what you want, but put me down as a vote to unban @Man. I feel like he was just starting to get to acceptance.
@Man
Dude, you have a lot of pain to get through. If I were you I’d start at the beginning of YaReally’s archive. Watch the RSD videos.
Redlight BD can be about actual guys and actual behaviors and things those guys are doing. Like your stripper’s BF. I’m not at all suggesting that standard approach doesn’t work, I’m saying there are alternatives. I am suggesting that it can also have nothing at all to do with the actual guy and his actual IRL behaviors… that you can set up the same dynamic of BD without knowing anything really about the guy or talking about him… by looping into emotions that you uncover that she is feeeeeeeeeling and then leaving the implication that they are because of him…… Read more »
@sentient good points With married women, I do not want to run husband destroyer as I just want to borrow the cunt and return it in excellent shape. Thus I’m a value added proposition, that she can have a great experience (sorry Rollo for mentioning the topic) on top (or bottom) of whatever she has now. You state: by looping into emotions that you uncover that she is feeeeeeeeeling and then leaving the implication that they are because of him… while also introducing positive fulfilling emotions from you… which contrast now against the implication that he was somehow part of… Read more »
“Generally I assume there is a lack of emotion, and I’m not concerned with “positive fulfilling emotions” but making her feel a full range of emotions, that she feels alive again.”
Which is all good of course. But for a guy like Ranger, he can short cut the seduction process by focusing on filling the blank, so “bored” gets “exciting” etc. and he doesn’t have to master wide range off the bat.
@sentient
Which is all good of course. But for a guy like Ranger, he can short cut the seduction process by focusing on filling the blank, so “bored” gets “exciting” etc. and he doesn’t have to master wide range off the bat.
I agree, my bad, I suck at any attempt to teach this stuff
@Sentient @hank @Culum Thanks for the advice. Obviously I’m not used to get female attention (other than my female family members and buddies’ girlfriends) let alone to get actual IOI’s, and the only reason that I kind of caught those IOI’s it is because the PUA material I’m reading, and even then my brain is messing me up, kind of refuses to believe that a girl can be attracted to me, it goes something like: “Hey she asked you for you name!, According to MM says that a girl asking you for your name it is clearly an IOI!, but… Read more »
@culum Oh yeah. Bookstores are my dig. I’d hang there all the time if I had more to go to and there were more girls there. You can do a lot with the comic stuff. push pull and all that “What? You are looking at comics? NERD! Nah, I’m just messing. I sometimes read comics too. What’s you’re favorite? Ah really? That’s cool. Well don’t worry. You’re secret is safe with me. (turn to someone else) Hey, did you know this girl likes comic books? She’s like a huge nerd. Haha, I’m just kidding. She actually is pretty cool. But… Read more »
@hank holiday
“The climbers know that its filled with all sorts of nooks and crannies they can use. The cliff is like velcro to them.”
Not a fair comparison – That’s a photo of Alex Honnold. I’m not sure he’s human – sort of super-human
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0E0ynyIUsg&w=640&h=360%5D
Well that was the most sex I’ve ever had in 24 hours
http://www.barnorama.com/wp-content/galleries/01/week1/17.jpg
Might do a LR later if I have the chance, there were a few interesting dynamics lol
@Andy “They’re all sexually proceptive.” Sure, but not to all men. Women have great sexual power. Their chief difficulty in wielding it lies in proper targeting. They want to display proceptivity towards Chad TK, but everyone can see the miniskirt. ” I just stood there. I don’t remember what was said after that, but it was shit test, shit test, shit test, I said something funny. gobble, gobble, gobble. lol. Strongest frame. :-)” Lol, that’s a funny story but I have to admit I reposted it because I busted out laughing when fleezer interpreted this to be you just whipping… Read more »
@Digireaper – good work on starting the journey. It takes time and loads of reference experiences but you will change your mindset. And it’s fairly specific. Like I’m pretty confident on dates now because I’ve done so many online dates but like I walked into a restaurant for lunch today and looked around for the waitress to be seated and had a big smile and eye contact from a HB7 having lunch at one of the tables – that kind of IOI still surprises me because I’m not used to it the way I’m used to lots of dates (or… Read more »
@Hank Good analogy! Works on multiple levels. Also, following your progress with interest. But I don’t usually have much to tear apart once YaReally/Scray/Sentient etc hit the fray 😀 @Culum Excellent, I’m stoked that you’re just spamming approaches now. No more sniper mentality! The field requires you think on your feet, which takes practice. But when you write it down you start to realize ‘hey, that Uber girl was totally possible to #close if I just xyz…’ Not saying I would have gotten it either lol, it’s just you start to see the possibilities. And that’s also a huge service… Read more »
The whole Blax&Scribb thing reminded me of a train of thought I’ve been having lately. The greatest division between two people isn’t down to race or creed, or even down to low class or high class. Even money and status are very inefficient ways to buy happiness or contentment. They’re correlated, but barely. Where you fall on the spectrum of content/discontent, and of anxious/carefree, makes a gigantic difference to your entire existence. The way a carefree person is able to go through the world is entirely foreign to a person who is chronically anxious, and vice-versa. The whole ground or… Read more »
@Yareally Culum LMR problem, variant happened 4 times this month. Invite a girl out (nice and early), she postpones the meeting time, escalation is slow (but still on the 7-hour track), she had complained that she has work tomorrow but still agrees to come back to mine/walk part of the way. Push through some LMR, half-assed, before the girl finally decides that she wants to leave, in a situation where she has little sleep before her next working day (I start very late 🙂 ) – and she had remained way past her original bedtime commitment. I’m not sure whether… Read more »
@YaReally @culum @hank
https://youtu.be/d1I3DYtZ4L0
Had to share this Non-RSD clip (Shared the link with my wings). 37 minutes open to close. This right here is what Day game should look like.
@ Forge the Sky I’m heartened by your mindset. And your pursuit of game. “(Not identifying either of these characters with anyone, just illustrating extremes in order to illustrate the point)” Let me take if further. Let me name names. Forge, Scribbler and Sun Wukong have officially broken out of a rut as observed by their behavior in comments. They essentially forged through to new skills, mindset and practices in game, rather than try to break old habits. I had the hardest time relating last year to the depressive habits of Sun and Scribbler and the minor tendencies of Forge.… Read more »
@N1 4x with the same girl or different girls? At any rate It sounds like you’re having issues with one of three things: 1: not generating enough attraction. If a girl is waffling and kinda sabatoging the logistics of a meetup she likely has low attraction. She’s finally showing up due to boredom, like ‘This dude MIGHT be alpha, finding out is more interesting than Netflix, arg FINE I’ll go out.’ My FWB got like 2 hrs of sleep last night and risked a DUI to drive to me (in spite of me telling her I’d pick her up lol).… Read more »
When you start pay atention on words and when you read that words properly
@Forge – thanks, some more approach spamming coming up next week..pushing just a little bit deeper each time..:) @N1 – if I understand correctly you’re thinking about what you should have done when the girl decided to go home (well past her bedtime) after you spent some time trying to break through LMR? It seems to me that you did everything you could – I mean you successfully got her home and were running LMR tactics. I guess no harm doing a time bridge (obviously if she really wants to go home – as in she actually gets up and… Read more »
“Been doing some daygame but that shit’s hard for me to close on for me yet. I had plans to hit the clubs 2x this weekend. She’s already come up with several excuses to hang out. We’ll see what wins. I’ve had little enough sex lately that going for the sure thing might have an edge currently. Buff my abundance mindset a bit.”
@Forge
Going to her for sex instead of going out is the opposite of abundance.
@SJF
I may have been a little over the top there attacking ya, but I just want you to get better. I know you’ve grown while I’ve been here, but you need to understand that you are not where you could be. You need to kill your ego. I don’t give a shit what that Illimitable Men article says. The ego needs to die. Also, get rid of this “I’m an INTJ and a judgmental dick, and that will never change” line of thinking.
Your first assignment…
Accept that you can learn something from me.
Eehh, ‘abundance’ was the wrong way for me to describe it. Sure, real abundance would be me being like ‘I could just bang you but eeeh, make it a good deal for me or I’m gonna go find another girl.’ I think I’m pretty close to that mindset, like if she started acting up in any way I’d just peace out and sarge instead. But I just have to acknowledge with my not-irrational-self-confidence brain that my current skillset makes pulling an uncertain proposition, and that I don’t have a solid sex pipeline yet, so I need to avoid sexual deprivation… Read more »
Thanks Andy. I actually did learn a lot from you in the past 10 days on your thread about Nancy Friday. Lol, the night before last my wife got a new massage tool in the mail and I decided to help her with it and some massage oil. After we were done with that session, I went downstairs to watch television and she called me back for some more dicking because she really wanted more. Earlier that evening, I was even more married red pill than usual because you were in my head, rent free. I went on a Pokemon… Read more »
@SJF
Keep working on that first assignment. lol.
@Andy Roger that. It is working. And I do accept Nancy Friday’s data collection for what it is. @Forge Is my brain rationalizing getting easy sex? Sure. But I don’t think it’s doing so in an overly toxic fashion in this case. But tell me if I’m wrong. Your not wrong. It is a great platform (having one plate) to work on acquiring other plates. Social proof, pre-selection and DHV and a pivot are not toxic. Take care to socialize and interact with other attractive women besides her, even if your time is limited. Don’t give her all your free… Read more »
Culum – Hank – book store guys Couple of good examples from Chris at GLL… No pyrotechnics… no raz mattaz jazz hands back flip routines… Basics. > Open. > Hold frame. > Lead convo. > Maybe kino. > Action to close on a high point > bust out. Repeat on next girl. If you can open, you can close… if you try to close… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vu2t33t9mU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEnXMgbun4o Culum you could do this all day long… Try staying in your “away” city over the weekend, post up in the morning, harvest numbers throughout the day for the night or Sunday… No reason… Read more »
@SJF
Yup, just creating a virtuous cycle for myself!
@Scribb
Did the date go?
@Sentient, plus today is National Lipstick Day, National Talk in an elevator day, and national chicken wings day – ripe topics to open with.
“National Talk in an elevator day”
Rebecca Watson’s favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWCmMOjYV-Q
Newly…. love me some chicken wings today…. Ha haha
Culum… one more for inspiration, same night plans… You can do this all day long… as long as you act!
“Hey girl, I’d pick you up if this elevator hadn’t beat me to it.”
….
Her: “Going up?” You: [glance at crotch] “Yup!”
….
“Hit ‘close’ would you? I’ve been doing it all day…”
…..
[find busty chick. glance at boobs.] Her: “Could you please press ‘one?’ You: “Left or right?”
Big Al- I am happy you are participating in MRP but you may have missed the point and inadvertently given support to many “anti-MRP” Red Pillers. One of the main objections to MRP from Red Pill Guys is that it gives young men the idea that it can work so why not? Married Red Pill provides an excuse to get married and ignore the entire thrust of the Red Pill!! That is not, and never was the intention of Married Red Pill. We are ALREADY married and are making the best of it. We favor STAYING married, NOT GETTING married!… Read more »
Mini FR: As suspected by Sentient and Ya etc I got myself on BF/provider rail with HB8 and she did a pre-emptive “don’t be confused” call day of date. Meanwhile, she’s been all over me on text and calling etc, It’s interesting, in the past this would have shut me down but instead I saw it as an opening, lol. See, I had failed to sexualize our interactions and to hard qualify as lover. So I was sliding into prov/BF and whenever a young hottie sees me this way I’m out of consideration, cuz they aren’t going to introduce me… Read more »
@Forge, damn that was funny, man. Thanks.
scribblerg Couple of thoughts for you… It’s easy to segue into a “paternal” role and conversation with younger women… because you have all the answers and experience, it’s quite natural. It is alluring to them, but not arousing however. And if you feel like you still have to earn their attraction, it is a slippery slope to go down. Assuming attraction (even while actually building it) and playing on the natural Man/child, dominant/submissive natural imbalance to the relationship will lead to more adept early sexualization and avoid this kind of “guru” trap. Sprinkle the wisdom lightly via a strong frame.… Read more »
@ Forge ” The greatest division between two people isn’t down to race or creed, or even down to low class or high class. Even money and status are very inefficient ways to buy happiness or contentment. They’re correlated, but barely. Where you fall on the spectrum of content/discontent, and of anxious/carefree, makes a gigantic difference to your entire existence. The way a carefree person is able to go through the world is entirely foreign to a person who is chronically anxious, and vice-versa. The whole ground or tone to everything is different. Add to this the way that memory… Read more »
@Blax
Thank you.
Nothing to add really. Let’s just let that close ‘Are You Experienced?’ with an emphatic ‘yes.’
I always find these articles interesting. I’m veering towards MGTOW following my divorce. I count it as a blessing that the divorce was at my instigation. I simply couldn’t put up with it and the reduced income was well worth the price of freedom. Then I started looking at Internet dating I actually contacted women my age and older partly because I didn’t want any fertile women getting ideas about having kids with me. But when I started looking at women well over 50, they are proud to exclaim that they have a high standard of living and expect the… Read more »
Looks like I got the ban-hammer. Can’t say I’m surprised. Miss this place sometimes … and don’t either. Guess I will stay away for awhile … or maybe the ban-hammer is perm. Insulted Ya-Really ??? ,,, the RP god himself … ?? So … maybe that’s a perm-ban. Whatever, don’t really care. Ya’ll take good care of yourself and remember … our society is the matrix, don’t take the blue pill. What you think is reality … really isn’t.
I haven’t banned you Rocket. Don’t pretend any different.
[…] published an excellent post the other week on the topic of men refusing to spend their money on material items and instead […]
Where to begin – what a realization to come to understand with the red pill. As bitter as it has been looking back and understanding the “why” I acted that way and thought in the ways in which I did (still do to an extent) and seeing it EVERYWHERE. I wasn’t sure where I was going to post a comment – this post felt along the lines of my awakening. Its a strange feeling to behave counter to the ways in which I have been conditioned and seeing how others react with the understanding of the psychology in play. I… Read more »
[…] There’s a common refrain you read in both the femosphere as well as religious bloggers about the state of extended adolescence they believe men are extending today. I even wrote about this ridiculous impression of men’s clinging to juvenility in Are You Experienced. […]
[…] possible corollary to look for: see if the “bros before homes” shaming begins to die down. It should. Because before that you patriamalarkey-preaching […]
[…] possible corollary to look for: see if the “bros before homes” shaming begins to die down. It should. Because before that you patriamalarkey-preaching […]
[…] thing”. Granted, it’s the same message of shaming men for exactly what I covered in Are You Experienced? Only this time the shame for men comes from another man (we’re supposed to respect?) while […]
[…] Granted, it’s the same message of shaming men for exactly what I covered in Are You Experienced? Only this time the shame for men comes from another man (we’re supposed to respect?) […]
It really seem you are overthinking think and reading way too much into what Bovy’s intentions are. She is just saying she is angry that there is a current trend that belittles something that feminine in nature when what they are doing isn’t exactly the epitome of maturity either. It looks like you convoluted the whole thing.
[…] I came across the term Lost Boys in 2016. It’s attributed to the fan base that Dr. Jordan Peterson was generating around that time, but I had heard similar references to “drop out” young men as early as 2014. The fem-stream media was concerned that these 18-29 year old men were deliberately thwarting women’s mating/life strategies by not preparing themselves for adulthood. Women were concerned that fewer young men were going to be suitably ignorant-yet-dutiful husband material by the time they were 30. Meanwhile, TradCon media (predictably) made this crisis of masculinity all about men “shirking their responsibilities” from… Read more »
[…] I came across the term Lost Boys in 2016. It’s attributed to the fan base that Dr. Jordan Peterson was generating around that time, but I had heard similar references to “drop out” young men as early as 2014. The fem-stream media was concerned that these 18-29 year old men were deliberately thwarting women’s mating/life strategies by not preparing themselves for adulthood. Women were concerned that fewer young men were going to be suitably ignorant-yet-dutiful husband material by the time they were 30. Meanwhile, TradCon media (predictably) made this crisis of masculinity all about men “shirking their responsibilities” from… Read more »