I added this video today to illustrate a point, watch it carefully and with a Red Pill Lens. In this post-sexual revolution 2017 there is a strong want for the fulfillment of what I call the Old Books socio-sexual model goals. I’ll be impressed if you can stomach even half of the boilerplate ‘Man Up’ message in this video, but watch it carefully because it illustrates the dichotomy of a social order that’s been founded on feminine-primacy for over six decades now.
On a side note, I think it should be recognized that even ostensibly conservative thought leaders often toe the line for the Feminine Imperative more effectively than the progressives they attempt to disparage. I’m not going to riff on this video as I think most of my readers will understand the subtext being communicated here, but it’s an interesting exposé of the old books expectation of “doing the right thing”. Granted, it’s the same message of shaming men for exactly what I covered in Are You Experienced? Only this time the shame for men comes from another man (we’re supposed to respect?) while he attempts to sell the same message that Sheryl Sandberg does in Open Hypergamy,… Be like Ward Cleaver (he’s a stud) and in time, nothing’s sexier.
When we consider that western cultures have consolidated on feminine social primacy, and a women’s-needs-first way of interpreting any social dynamic, things get a bit easier when you distill the intent down from a social scale to a personal scale. What’s being related in this video is the desire to socially, culturally, change the definition of what should be considered “sexy” by women in spite of all evolved arousal and attraction cues they’re subject to. The presumption this is based upon is that attraction is a social construct and therefor something that can be changed.
If a man does everything by the book, if he does everything right, if he accepts the responsibilities feminine-primacy expects of him, he can be considered an adult, and he can assume his chances of being considered ‘sexy’ by women and certainly his own wife. In so accepting this definition of his burden of performance women will appreciate the equity he accrues in the relationship by investing himself in it.
From a Red Pill perspective we see this for what it is, the old books social contract that is still being sold to a generation of men who increasingly are seeing it for the life-changing lie it is. However, I’ll have you note the final summation of the video where men are encouraged to see adulthood as getting married, becoming a father and working hard to buy a home. I could argue that there are no June Cleavers left in the world or that getting married is a high-risk, low yield gamble. I could argue that becoming a father only makes a man fall in line with the ridiculous or hated caricature popular culture has made of them. I won’t even start on the risks of the housing market.
For all of this, the desire is still a return to a social contract wherein men are conditioned to believe that they will be rewarded for doing everything right. That old school notion has become the Beta bait of the past 3 generations.
As I mentioned in the last installment of this series, most men who are ‘awakened while married’ want to apply their Red Pill awareness in such a way that they might achieve this idyllic state that the guy in this video assures us is possible if we’d all just Man Up. Most married Red Pill (MRP) men are looking to save their marriages. They see it as a key to getting a woman to appreciate his investment in her, in their kids, in his marriage, his dedication to ‘doing everything the right way’,
Much in the same way that single Red Pill guys will (initially) focus on Red Pill awareness and Game in order to eventually connect with their Dream Girls, so too does the MRP guy. The difference being that he’s convinced he’s already married to his dream girl and the only thing between him and that ideal life with her is finding the formula to achieve the life-plan this video elaborates.
As I said before, most married men’s first intent when they unplug isn’t to divorce their wives, hit the clubs and spin plates. His first thought is “how do I get her to come around to appreciating me?” or “How do I get back to the kind of sex we had (or I think we could)?” I think it’s important for men, both Red Pill singles and MRP to disabuse themselves of the Blue Pill goals they think might ever be achievable with Red Pill awareness. I say this because it put that awareness into the perception of it being a cure to their problems. While it may seem noble to a newly unplugged guy to want to use his new superpower of Red Pill awareness for good (not for evil) and valiantly use it to do the right thing for his wife, his desire to do so is still founded in a Blue Pill conditioning that’s taught him he’ll be appreciated for it.
It may be that his new Alpha impression on his wife isn’t something she will ever recognize or accept as ‘the real him’. And while this frustration plays out in his marriage, he also sees the positive responses from women outside his marriage – women unfamiliar with his Beta past – who readily respond to the Game he applies. That new positive reinforcement with outside women contends with his wife’s negative reinforcement inside his marriage.
The following quote was part of a comment from ollieoxenfree in last week’s thread:
Who sees you as a viable long term option and is eager to please (in fact has pleased on many occasions) but is aware you may never reciprocate in kind. Will he waste his best years coveting something he may never have? Wouldn’t it be better to entertain a slightly lesser, suitor and be their top priority?
If a wife can no longer give of herself, does she still see fit to demand the level of investment as when she did? Can a man still appreciate the tacit approval his wife offers him, in not questioning his whereabouts when he’s engaged in an extramarital affair. Does she show affection and support in other ways?
The truth is most women under the influence of the Feminine Imperative don’t support their partners, nor cultivate an understanding with them in regards to the limits of their sexual capacity.Men, for their part, like to think sexual intercourse with their partners, will always be available, given time and circumstance. The reality is, it isn’t.
Our biologies weren’t meant to tolerate these conditions. Especially with a woman who will constantly shit test you and emasculate you, in every conceivable way she can divine.A woman will invariably condemn you for your weakness, but expect understanding for hers.
Common Experiences
There is a school of thought about being Red Pill and married that believes that getting a wife (or LTR girlfriend) to accept the ‘new you’ as being impossible. Things may nominally improve due to Dread working, but your new Red Pill marriage will never be what you want it to be because you have improved, she hasn’t and she never wanted you this way in the first place.
I don’t accept this assessment in its entirety, however I do see where this sentiment comes from. Most men who are awakened while married are men who followed the same script as the men I illustrate in Betas in Waiting. These are the men who have ‘done everything right’ for the better part of their lives. They cultivated themselves to be the perfect providers that Sheryl Sandberg would have women believe will be waiting for them when their looks begin to fade and it’s time to cash out of the SMP. These are the men who believe their hard work and perseverance is finally paying off with a women who now find him irresistible because he represents their salvation in long term security and parental investment.
Most women entering their Epiphany Phase are expressly looking for a Beta to take care of them now that the Party Years are coming to an end for her. They’re (ostensibly) done with the Bad Boys (something they had to ‘grow out of’) and now want to do things ‘the right way’. This, of course, suits a Beta in Waiting just fine because his Blue Pill conditioning has prepared him by expecting him to ‘do things the right way’ and to believe any woman wanting to do the same must be a Quality Woman.
These men believe their ship has finally come in, but because of this these men are often the most difficult to unplug. They have the hardest time with Red Pill awareness because in accepting it they must also accept that what led up to their marriage to that Quality Woman was also a result of their Blue Pill conditioning. A lot of their ego is invested in Beta Game and Blue Pill convictions, but also a forced-convincing of themselves that they did everything right and were rewarded for it.
This is why it’s a bitter pill to swallow when that guy’s wife drip-feeds him sex, or he discovers her sexual best was reserved for another man in her past, or she tells him she loves him, but she’s not in love with him. Even in the face of outright disrespect or his Beta confirmations of failed shit tests, he’ll still refuse to acknowledge his state. Often it’s only prolonged sexlessness (and even this is rationalized for a long time) that motivates him to seek the answers of Red Pill awareness.
The Beta in Waiting never had Frame before or during his marriage. In fact, it was just that lack of Frame that made him marriage material for his wife. He was never “Alpha” for her, and in his equalist mindset he believed this was what set him apart and attractive then.
So going from this very strong Beta initial impression to an Alpha position of dominance can be all but impossible – particularly if his self-confirmed status was that of being a proud Beta.
There are other men who’ll report having had an Alpha status prior to their marriage, but they lost it somewhere along the way. They were the Alpha backsliders who possibly entered into the marriage with a dominant Frame, but this dissolved as his wife’s Frame or insecurities about him came to dominate their relationship. I think this is likely the scenario that provides the most believability when a man becomes awakened while married, because it is a return to a prior impression (or one his wife had hoped he’d find) and therefor more believable when he does.
The ‘tamed’ Alphas are also the guys with wives who’ll try to actively minimize his Red Pill transformation. Their wives are simultaneously aroused by this rekindling of his Alpha dominance and fearful that he will come to see her as the failed investment she likely is for him. That may or may not be the actual case for him, but for her it will prompt possessiveness, surveillance and a control over how he’s allowed to ‘appropriately’ express this dominance – which in turn disqualifies it.
In the last installment of this series I will outline some ways in which a Red Pill man might go about internalizing this transformation, how that might manifest itself in an authentic way, and also the pitfalls to be aware of that can stifle it.
@Sisyphus, sorry, I misread you man.
Tradcons don’t want the Red Pill, they want a time machine.
I don’t get this at all. Seems like you would want both.
@rationalityf
Count me as one more to the “get out of there now” group regarding your returnee. Fighter jocks have a procedure for this. It’s called EJECT! EJECT! EJECT! If the pilot is saying this, he has already pulled the handle halfway through the second eject.
cont’d from above… when I say I could not understand, what I mean is that we had come so far, and despite the rocky nature of the relationship, I took it for granted, on the misconception that she “loved me truly”, that we were in it for the long run. That I didn’t need to work at it.. because I had already worked hard enough. So my solution to this particular problem is not to supplicate, which it could be misconstrued as, but simple textbook RP wisdom to focus on myself and my mission and vicariously increase my value to… Read more »
http://english.op.org/images/blogs/godzdogz/2012/08/Pedro_Am-C3-A9rico_-_Davi_e_Abisag_-_1879.jpg
Alpha Male and Alpha Female
“Okay, the idea being that “forcibly” is different than “take advantage of”.” Right. We already have the words “forcibly,” “molest” and “rape,” and women aren’t afraid to use them. The phrase “take advantage of” exists because it means something different, and in this case, oddly enough, pretty much means what it actually says. “As in, I can take advantage of my skills to win a bid for a project . . .” Noooow you’re on the right track. What are things we “take advantage of”? The weather, an investment opportunity and such. Things which exist in the environment, which perhaps… Read more »
@KFG
hamster
Man up
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NZw
@Kfg Complementarity Alpha-Alpha is one way to DO bonded pairs. That is single-speak, not double speak. (Willing female submission is another way to do bonded pairs, if that’s what you want and you can accomplish it. Modern economics and laws don’t support this model much any more — benefit/cost ratios for women and men have really changed!) You do better to engage with the issue, to stop the name-calling (“churchian”), and use appropriate biological metaphors rather than mechanical ones. (And, in all cases, argument from metaphor is inherently weak) To repeat my question: Is a successful LTR possible, with male… Read more »
@Sisyphus Re (kinda O/T): Pussy Grabbing Trump I think the most revealing aspect of the entire pussygate commentary is not about Trump or his “victims”, but rather how it was framed as a convenient data point of the patriarchy-rape culture-objectification constellation. Which was easy because: Trump sux! But what if it wasn’t trump who said it, what if it was just some likeable alpha buddy on your annual ski trip? The way Trump’s comments were framed remains highly rigid despite the fact that it is an obvious inversion of reality. Any man who has had even a fraction of the… Read more »
@stuffinbox: “hamster”
Yes. But notice that while the man, although using the generic “Baby,” directly addresses the woman, the woman never directly addresses the man.
The woman’s hamster, however, directly addresses the people of concern to it.
Marco
Complementarity Alpha-Alpha is one way to DO bonded pairs
Define your terms. Start by explaining what a “female alpha” is, and what you mean by “complimentarity”.
@sentient Nice painting and photo. I do enjoy attractive women. But these may well just be babes, “10s”, hot young pussy. A turn on, for sure. But probably not very good candidates for LTR (especially the one in the photo). If your thing is hot young babes, go for them. I certainly understand, and wish you great success in your pursuit. I prefer an Alpha woman, with the full set of Alpha traits. Different model, different traits, different criteria for success. Men differ in their goals. A number of different goals are attainable with proper understanding, strategy, and tactics, and… Read more »
@kfg
“The woman’s hamster, however, directly addresses the people of concern to it.”
The people of concern to her hamster,are all of a solipsistic nature,public opinion,support food and shelter ect.Note she isn’t concerned for the people,only how they may effect her.
What did I win?
@Razorwire Agree completely. That’s basically what I was circling around. I was the M’aitre’d at a posh little place in my younger days and I picked up pussy like lint! Sometimes I was overtly sexually aggressive in ways that I explicitly heard the cocktail waitresses complain about (he tried to touch my ass!). We had a new waitress one night and I hustled by, busy and in the weeds, but I stopped short and said, “we’ll talk later” smacked her in the ass and said, “get to work”. Even at the time this was pushing it for me but I… Read more »
@Marko: ” . . . stop the name-calling (“churchian”). . .” You are putting word in my mouth. ” . . . Is a successful LTR possible . . .” Define “success” and “LT.” ” . . .with male prime values being hot young pussy and submissive female? Hot young pussy gets older, and economics/laws don’t support “submissive”, so I don’t see how this model works long term.” Neither do I. “If that’s not your model for a successful LTR, what is?” It is your a priori premise, not mine. On what grounds should I have a model for it?… Read more »
@Marko My experience with Older man younger woman relationships,it lasted well till he died,she always wanted to fuck me outside of relationship said she wanted a daughter. Alpha Alpha w no kids egalitarian relationship,she always wanted to fuck me outside of relationship,probably because I told her to be quiet one time. Alpha Alpha with kids she always wanted to fuck me in relationship untill I went egalitarian the desire was lost,untill red pill desire rekindled. There is always a man more alpha than me,but I can never allow the woman to become the alpha in the relationship,she can only be… Read more »
@Marko
Also she likes to show me of to her subordinates,and asks me to come by her work so she can do just that.
Sometimes I oblige her just to watch those little cocktails squirm with desire when I stare them down and say their names one by one.
@Anonymous Reader
Good questions!
An attempt at some definition of terms:
Complementarity: (Alphas are strong on their side of the gender traits, and have some competence on the other side as well, as situations call for it)
MASCULINE -FEMININE:
Thinking-Feeling
Exploring-Nesting
Competition-Cooperation
Excluding- Including
Masculine Handsome/Strong — Feminine Beauty/Radiance
Demanding – Nurturing
Penis -Vagina
Some traits are just Alpha, esp. having ability/repertoire for verbal or physical violence/force when called for, sexual drive, drive to build a legacy in family and world, excellent Respectful Assertiveness skills.
Kfg:
Topic of this series of OPs is whether/how today a LTR can work.
Thus, let’s explore models that could/can/do work, and those that have no chance.
If LTR is not your goal, or goal of many TRM posters, I certainly understand. I think under current hyper-individualist culture, with economy and laws to back that culture up, LTR becomes more and more problematic, and less and less desirable.
But my understanding of this series of OPs is exploring the LTR possibilities.
What I find interesting is watching women play out their role in this. They are seemingly completely unaware of it. I know a good handful of couples that consist of a cucked man and his single mom with three kids package deal. To the last one, the women lament about the jerks they used to date until they met “their perfect man”. They’ve come to appreciate a good Beta. He doesn’t get laid much if at all, but that’s OK because their relationship is deeper than that. LOL. Neither the woman or the blue pill beta have any idea of… Read more »
@stuffinbox: She addresses her mother, who it is implied she lives with (hence food, shelter, etc), her maiden aunt and “people.” Basically everyone in the fucking universe other than the guy she’s actually talking to and wants to fuck. Everything she offers to him is in the form of an apology. “Note she isn’t concerned for the people,only how they may effect her.” Exactly. And that is the secret to entry into the Secret Society; i.e. it’s secret stupid, can’t you read what it says right on the tin? “What did I win?” A KFG personally endorsed bonus point, fully… Read more »
Marko
define what an Alpha female is. and your LTR model.
Feminist women want to have: -Resources provided either by themselves, the State or some combination. -Protection provided by the State, not men. -A desire to lower aggressive, risk-taking behavior in men to lessen the risk from them and limit women’s need for protection. -Gain access to status (money & power) themselves so that, in conjunction with the State, they will no longer need men for resources or protection. -Procreation can be provided by technology (IVF, etc.) or Alpha males as needed. Sisyphus — I agree with points 1, 2, 3 and 4. I think on point 5 the “ideal” is… Read more »
@Platinum Patriarch what is the guard dog spinup? how do you train a guard/attack dog?… you push it a little… and let it ‘win’… you push it a little more/harder… and let it win… pretty soon you can break a baseball bat over its head and it will still rip your arm off… you can generate the same dynamic when you try to turn around your ltr/marriage… via inconsistently passing her shit tests like a boss…lol… if you want an example, go through EhIntellect’s FRs in the field report section… if every time she increases the intensity of the shit… Read more »
@ TuffLuv
Thanks man. Seems like the solution was to double-down on your core mission(s), improving yourself and increasing your value. Everything comes back to being your own mental point of origin—especially when times get tough.
Again, thanks…will chew on this a bit more.
@Marko: “. . . let’s explore models that could/can/do work, and those that have no chance.” I do not presuppose that any model can “work,” whatever “work” means. Or, for that matter, that any such model is desirable. Any model I constructed would be built from the bottom up on observables, not from the top down on hypotheticals. I’m certainly capable of constructing abstract hypothetical models that parse logically, but that I’m reasonably certain cannot actually work, but I don’t see the value in that here. And the impression I have gotten from you is that you take at least… Read more »
Manning up
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NZz
What was the right course of action. I think.. I think the right course was to actually LISTEN to the message, which I was incapable of deciphering at the time. The message was… YOU SEE THIS?? I’m better than you. I don’t want to leave, but I’m telling you now I CAN.. do you SEE? @Tuffluv — Yes, basically that shit test was the female version of dread. It was intended to get you to change your behavior, to pick up your game due to the dread factor of “look at me, you are easily replaced”. It’s different from male… Read more »
Saw this on facebook today…
“This happened in D.C. too. The Bikers for Trump wanted to be a “wall of meat”, prepared to scare the ladies. A bunch of motorcycle cops rode by, honking and waving at us. They came back moments later, escorting the poor Bikers for Trump from the million women who showed up. Because WE DO NOT BACK DOWN and we are in full force. ”
So some big, strong MEN with guns came by on motorcycles and moved the other men on motorcycles and “WE DO NOT BACK DOWN”. Too funny!
“On reflection, considering I did lead my wife, my family.. I did sweep her off her feet with true chemistry and arousal in play.. and I entered my marriage to her under my frame, keeping it that way fairly successfully for 15 years.. ” this series is brutal and awesome. I think “leading” a woman is different than “leading” a team or group of men. when I’m out on the trail with the wife, I always walk in front. there have been times when I stop for water and push her out in front so I can look at her… Read more »
“So some big, strong MEN with guns came by on motorcycles and moved the other men . . .”
Worst.Patriarchy. Ever.
Pretty shabby opening performance of a misogynist, fascist dictatorship that’s going to round up all the SJWs and send them to the gas chambers as well.
Never ever let a woman dictate what you can and cannot do; A lot of this post holds for red pill singles (I like this term). If you’re in game, you are going to get burnt, and trust me – it’s gonna fucking sting. Women will use you for sex. Women will try to guilt you into LJBF if it suites them etc. Or even something simple like asking you to change your cigarette brand. The point being, you never listen to what they want from you. Never. If it came from her, you’re not gonna do it. Period. You… Read more »
You know, it’s absolutely possible/plausible to be RP and still like/love women, and find some of them interesting.
Women were her originally for a pretty specific purpose. Despite all of the shenanigans, this still holds true.
No need to harden one’s self. What’s the reason for that? You can protect yourself and your interests without being hardened. Hardness that didn’t come naturally is a downer.
Marko
Complementarity: (Alphas are strong on their side of the gender traits, and have some competence on the other side as well, as situations call for it)
Nobody else uses this definition.
Novaseeker “Most women DO care about being forced to marry and fuck a beta in order to survive and be socially accepted, however.” In the church I grew up in this was the thing. “Nice” guys being breed always had the darkest secrets. For me at least I got tired of speaking and being humilted for haven’t to point out red pill truths at 6 yrs old to my mother. Who Couldn’t and wouldn’t accept any alpha attributes without attempting to tear them down. While my farther would watch and enforce my mothers shit test with rage and violence. Women… Read more »
Slightly, off topic… President Trump Vs. David Muir of ABC You have to admire the way that President Trump totally overpowered David Muir in the interview last night. Muir had voices in his ear prompting him; plus, he had a carefully lined up barrage of questions to “catch” the President. Yet, sitting across from him face-to-face, The President, almost effortlessly, deflected away all of the attacks. The highlight quote: “David, David – I mean, I know you’re a sophisticated guy.” Translation: “You are a dumbass; tell your ABC bosses not to send a boy to do a man’s job.” I… Read more »
“Q: What aspect of complementarity is missing from an ant colony?”
“And being alone is infinitely better than being a puppy dog slave.
You have one life, and it’s all on you – so do your own thing.”
The purported altruism of ant colonies does not speak well for complementarity of masculine enlightened self-interest. Feminine complementarity to the the masculine implies release from constraint. Ant colonies are the model of constraint. And the opposite of doing your own thing.
So there is that lack of complementarity.
Oh, yes, and there is this version, from the original movie, which for some reason the feminists never mention:
@ If ” You have to admire the way that President Trump totally overpowered David Muir in the interview last night. No I don’t. Trump has been doing this same thing forever. Question: Do you happen to know of, or spend time around loud bullshit artists at all? Muir had voices in his ear prompting him; plus, he had a carefully lined up barrage of questions to “catch” the President. Yet, sitting across from him face-to-face, The President, almost effortlessly, deflected away all of the attacks. Ok, if you say so. I’m gonna have to watch this video now. The… Read more »
Blaximus
Turning the press against himself is not a smart move. He’s gotta get above 50% in the polls before he can do that effectively.Turning the press against himself is not a smart move.
He’s there already. 59% according to Rasmussen.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_jan26
Not taking a position, just being Joe Friday.
@ AR
Got it…
http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/71705/file-1341017833-jpg/images/jack-webb-resized-600.jpg
@SJF: “Doing your own thing” is singular. “Complementarity” is plural. Complementarity implies a defined role in a system, like, oooooooooh, I don’t know, plug and socket. Although a plug and socket define a connection, there is minimal implication of what role that connection plays in the system. That is, we cannot deduce the system from that single aspect. We can, however, deduce that without that connection the system will not function as intended. A clock with a gear removed will still count time, it just won’t tell us what the count is. Counting time has become its “own thing.” And… Read more »
“What aspect of social hierarchy is absent from an ant colony?”
What is the same aspect that is absent in a bee hive.
Although the females do the work and the males mainly breed and die,there is no king bee.Hell the drones don’t even have stingers.
One other poll has him at +2, another has him at -7. Which tells me that there’s too much noise to make the data useful.
Wait a couple of weeks. IMO feels like he’s cratering. Business executives are notoriously thin skinned (they are mostly weak alphas). Successful politicians, by necessity, are not.
@Blaximus
Similar was Obama’s shovel ready infrastructure bailout plan,the money was diverted to the banks,the contractors couldn’t come up with enough money to bond a project,they had to go to the bank to borrow enough to bond,and most of them couldn’t qualify.
Construction has a bad rap,I don’t see anyone standing in line hoping to get these jobs,just to watch them dissapear.
” . . . there is no king bee.”
There is nothing in the concept of social hierarchy which implies the presence of a king.
You can’t even begin to discuss an ant colony without discussing social hierarchy. It is defined by a rigid, genetically encoded caste system. Looked at the other way around an ant colony defines social hierarchy.
Yes, these are “trick” questions. I’m making a Socratic argument in response to Marko, who seems to be crafting a relationship model whose function is to avoid invoking a single word which pokes his sore spot.
@KFG I get the Socratic way. And I’ve been here too long to believe I have a mode. That fact has been well dis-proved. Like catching a tiger by the toes. “What aspect of social hierarchy is absent from an ant colony? Well certainly, sentience is absent. The ability to think and feel and experience. Which leads to masculine feebly-ness if you screw up or in some cases agency if you play your cards right. I know you have a MGTOW basis and this is the basis of mental point of origin and a basis for aversion to the non-sentient… Read more »
You know, it’s absolutely possible/plausible to be RP and still like/love women, and find some of them interesting.
Affirmative. I don’t claim RP, I may be some kind of purple moving to red on the scale of awareness/acceptance; but I continue to find some women interesting – even fascinating. Maybe it’s just a sign of weakness, but I don’t plan to shake it off.
Lost patrol
@Marko, all:
Complementarity:
https://therationalmale.com/2015/10/30/complementarity/
Alpha Females:
https://therationalmale.com/2013/03/14/hyenas/
“The ant colony is independent of sentience.” An ant is independent of sentience, but what I personally find intriguing about ants is that an ant colony behaves very much as if it were a brain with independently animate cells. Each cell lacks sentience, but the collection of cells exhibits it as an emergent property. The sentience of an ant colony is not a human sentience, but it does exhibit the qualities of sentience, including relatively complex problem solving. Richard Feynman showed how ant trails are formed by the essentially random motion of individual ants. He describes it in one of… Read more »
Aaaaaaaaand Rollo gets ahead of me with hyenas.
“What aspect of social hierarchy is absent from an ant colony?”
Independence/Individuality.
“…what I’m trying to do here is map out a small bit of fundamental territory way below the level of human inter-sexual relationships, where they don’t generate an emotional response based on how people view, or would like to view, their own relationships.” I’m more of a fan of how guy can map the territory and match up with his realtiy by using the forebrain rather than mapping a womans hindbrain for cues on how to act. My map more aligns with a man’s independence from a women in Deida’s third stage self actualizatfon. It does sometimes lead to overthinkng.… Read more »
“Aaaaaaaaand Rollo gets ahead of me with hyenas.” I totally had that idea in the back of my mind when Markos asked about “the plan”. There is no feminine “Alpha “archetype. The call for women is to exhibit femininity. This is their forte, and it energizes the masculine. He outlines the traits, but couching it in female Alpha is a misnomer. Masculine is Alpha. Feminine is what it is. What Markos doesn’t know is that he is outlining a call for Masculine/Feminine polarity. not Masculine Alphs aligned with Feminine Alpha. Feminine Alpha is not a thing. Being Feminine is. And… Read more »
@anon:
A hierarchy is an ordered set. An element that does not keep its place in the order breaks the hierarchy. One thumbnail description of all of human history is “the struggle between hierarchy and individuality.”
@SJF: “I’m more of a fan of . . .”
Bearing in mind that in this case (although I remain aware of the Peanut Gallery) by “people” I mean Marko. I’m trying to come around the backside of his argument to undesirable consequences.
Alpha Females: https://therationalmale.com/2013/03/14/hyenas/ Hyenas are a good model for the FI taken to ultimate end state. Mentioned but not highlighted – wolfpack. This is a good representation of how humans often interact now. In any grouping of mixed sex friends, relations, co-workers; a wolfpack like hierarchy can be detected. There will be an alpha male…and an alpha female. All down the line of the pack males and females will be sorted by dominance. Any male not the alpha, call them beta males for this model, will defer to the alpha female in all circumstances. She takes full advantage of this.… Read more »
“Feminine Alpha is not a thing.”
There is, however, a queen bee.
“There is, however, a queen bee.”
Want to hear something really scary?
The queen bee is a product of epigenetics.
@stuffinbox:
Want to hear something even scarier?
In humans epigenetic changes can persist for generations.
@rugby11
LOL! Too much mate. How do you find them so fast? This is it exactly.
“I’m in the amazing business”. I saw that movie years ago. Had no idea it was about the RP.
@kfg
LOL as usual I concede,stop it man your scaring me.
@nova. Well said on all points.
@fleezer. Tough love is the way I was raised and its the way I raised my family including her. It does depreciate though.. Its usefulness deteriorates in time.. Another lesson I’ve learned.
“There is, however, a queen bee.” And she is more of an automaton. She got her fix of sperm and she will dole it out as she sees fit in a starfish manner. My masculine brain wants more engagement. Sometimes women just frolic in their femininity and admit their nature. Sometimes men can lead that. That’s why Roissy’s Ninth Commandment is a good symphony for engagement. Sometimes girls just want to be filled up with some stuff (?love, or love of a good dicking) or will accept substitutes for the real thing (ice cream, nick nacks or cute sayings on… Read more »
“I’m trying to come around the backside of his argument to undesirable consequences.”
I acknowledge that and thank you for your service.
But I just want to fly like and eagle. And let my spirit carry me. Fly through to Revolution.
In other words, I just want to adapt and realize the Red Pill Hypothesis is chirping at my ass. So I gotta keep moving/adapting. It worked for me before and I’m going to keep doing it.
Undesirable consequences are not an option.
@Kfg: How about discussing the OP issue, instead of ants? Ants are a red herring (How’s that for a mixed metaphor?) Is the single word that pokes my “sore spot” “ants”? Or if not, what is that single word? Re definition of Complementarity, Rollo’s whole post that he linked above on that is thoroughly consistent with the way I’ve been using the term. @SJF et al. : SJF says re his experience with LTR: ““I just so happened across my territory at a certain time when I was passionate, dynamic and authentic personality, and I ran into a woman that… Read more »
@”Marko”, you know it’d save a lot of time if you just cut to the part where you try to convince us of how the terminology you’re comfortable using means that egalitarianism is really complementarianism or “Alpha” is euphemism for whatever square peg fits in your round hole.
@Marko: “what is that single word?”
You proceed to go full circle and answer your own question with a question. Poking our own sore spots seems to be a human trait.
As is getting a might irritable when somebody else pokes them.
https://twitter.com/sentientist/status/824614281434005504
https://twitter.com/IllimitableMan/status/824773162554515457
https://twitter.com/Billy/status/824755501267304448
https://soundcloud.com/user-580652804/the-mark-baxter-podcast-episode-5-jack-murphy
https://soundcloud.com/user-794676769/live-wspecial-guest-illimitable-man
I stumbled into red pill only about 6 months ago. I screwed up on Iron Rule #4 and am dealing with that mistake. I’m struggling with my inner beta and I laughed at the dude in the video. I admit there are times I wish I had never found this website and a few of the others (Chateau is a phucking hoot, though!)… I’m fighting through the anger phase. But I am becoming a better man because of it, I believe. I was trained in (and still struggle to rid myself of) the “old books.” I’ve dropped 43 pounds in… Read more »
I don’t know what you’re reading, Marko, but the topic of the OP is that the prats from Prager “University” keep trying to sell men on the old set of books, and that many young men are fortunate to dodge that particular bullet by not getting married (and/or getting into a common-law spouse situation and/or having children). Please correct me if I’m wrong, but Rollo (nor anyone else here) is NOT espousing any sure-fire method of having a successful marriage/LTR. I’d even wager here that most OMGs would say it’s nigh on impossible unless you are at the top of… Read more »
great stuff for where i’m, thank you for guidance Rollo.
Welcome, struggling to kill the beta, I suggest you search the site if possible for postings by Having A Bad Day aka having a bad day aka habd. He made the transition you are going through. One quick summary: sir, you’re changing from what you were to something more manly, and that both intrigues and alarms her hindbrain. Her hindbrain wants to know if this new you is real, is gonna stick around, and so it runs a Rolodex of shit tests at you. This is normal, this is not “just you”, it’s not “just her”, it’s All Women Are… Read more »
Aw, shucks, bold fail. Oh, well, maybe Rollo will fix.
struggling to kill the beta one more thing, the old Male Action Plan by Athol is around the web. Find it, it’s a good roadmap although not the only one for sure. Don’t sweat if your LTR is still running her old “let’s go eat plates of carbs for fun” program, she’s just clinging to security blankets. At some point in your self improvement if you remain consistent and congruent (mindset = action) she should start to shape herself up. Tossing out cheap carbs from your kitchen is good for your health, so just do it. Accept that if she… Read more »
Hey, Rollo, is there something wild about Marco that I didn’t notice?
Man, I hate it when that happens.
@Anonymous Reader….
“Every man here is on your side, man. Different styles, different ages, different cultures – we is all in your corner.”
thanks, brother! I appreciate the support!
This really is amazing stuff. Yesterday I was going through turmoil over an ex and the suggestions here that I should leave well alone. I had agreed last night to meet a woman from way back. This wasnt an ex or anyone I was interested in before so I didnt know what to expect. Understanding Game and how to present oneself I managed to manipulate the conversation to get laid last night. I doubt that would have happened in my previous Beta mindset. We dont realise it at the time but we really do have options, though I didnt expect… Read more »
@habd
so, intentionally provoking shit tests that you cant really handle (yet), then hitting one outta the park. which basically drives her insane.
aka it’s not her, it’s you.
thanks
What a wonderful world
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/drivenbyboredom/instaxxx-a-book-of-nude-instant-photos
“@Rollo, again: Is dominance-submission the only way you see a LTR working for a man (and a woman)?”
Wildman, why do you keep coming back asserting the same things/asking the same questions?
Then you get frustrated when you don’t get the answers you want.
There are plenty of places in the Intertnetz that will give you all the confirmation bias you’re obviously looking for. Just about everywhere in fact, but not here.
@rationalityf
Regarding our exes do we have any sympathy for them that their unrestrained hypergamy ultimately destroys them by giving them unsustainable pleasure?
Eventually our minds numb to them and our memories of them fade. It’s important to build new memories and new sensations of other women in the meantime. This builds a platform on which we can stand and observer that AWALT is so true.
“Don’t sweat if your LTR is still running her old “let’s go eat plates of carbs for fun” program, she’s just clinging to security blankets. At some point in your self improvement if you remain consistent and congruent (mindset = action) she should start to shape herself up. Tossing out cheap carbs from your kitchen is good for your health, so just do it.” She is feeling threatened because he is becoming more attractive. She is right to feel threatened because as his value increases hers decreases (unless she ups her game and loses weight to). It’s already happening from… Read more »
I the last 6 mouths I lost 4 dear friends to suicide all male. Patrick Blake Nathan and Thomas who I know since I was 14. I loved them and felt horrible because I’m used to numbing myself to feel anything at all. But this took it to another level. I found myself realized that something ended and wasn’t coming back. Hypergamy dosnt care about any of this. I wake up and still have to embody a performance. I have to exist and breath shit eat run and maybe climb a tree or two. But It hurts badly. The awareness… Read more »
She is feeling threatened because he is becoming more attractive. She is right to feel threatened because as his value increases hers decreases (unless she ups her game and loses weight to). Yes, its the SMV differential moving around again — often a killer in LTRs and marriages, really. Here, it gives him optionality, so it’s not a terrible place for him to be. She is facing a choice — either close the SMV gap up through effort on her part, try to stop him from upping his SMV (which seems to be what she has chosen to do), or… Read more »
Just watched the vid….just about to read the post. Just wanted to say….this is why these PragerU vids and the like at very insidious. They are clearly pushing for the dutiful beta. The title should be “The sexiest Beta Man Alive” for those who use a red pill lens. From Rollos essays that riff on things like ‘the lonely old man’, MPO….it’s clear this vid is pushing for men to be predictable, not to exercise dread, marry a woman and take care of everyone else….😧 Yet what the world needs is alpha men who lead by example whether they’re married… Read more »
Novaseeker
went to the gym with my rugyby team yesterday spent one hr doing 2 drills and a rotation of 5 overall drills. It was helpful. Going to the gym is a great anti depressant.
https://soundcloud.com/jimi_hendrix_22/roseta-stoned
Life moves on everything about sapiens is motion. Going to do some yoga now. Planting a garden and cooking for people is something that helps me out a lot.
Anonymous Reader January 25, 2017 at 10:12 pm Tarl, first thought: how many new things are you doing? TRT Lifting at least 3x a week, bench/squat/dead/OHP (never did squats or deads before 2016) Daily meditation NOFAP Got a CPAP because I learned I had sleep apnea Read a bunch of books including Rollo’s books, No More Mr. Nice Guy, Athol Kay Married Man Sex Life and Mindful Attraction Plan, When I Say No I Feel Guilty, Book of Pook, and BluePillProfessor’s book Learning guitar (from a baseline of zero musical experience) Started dance lessons with wife Started dressing better, recapitalized… Read more »
“Marco”:
“That is what I’m attempting to communicate: Women can be DPA too, and DPA is one shorthand way (without including the dominance criterion) to define Alpha.”
Some women are DPA. And they want a man who is more DPA than they are.
@Tarl
You seem to be doing everything right, and a lot of it too – I’m impressed.
– A beard goes pretty good with the shaved head thing 😉
– Effective TRT will certainly cause frustrations if she’s not responding (just an assumption – I have no experience in this)
– If there are no kids then consider just blowing it up. Your progress will sky-rocket
Prager is so much Big Talk
– yet all Jimmy does is demonstrate supplicative beta nasal whine.
Sign me up.
The “Alpha female” discussion is interesting. Terminology is important, but so is perspective. In terms of terminology, I normally think of “Alpha female” as being a female who is trying to be a male alpha. I’ve worked with quite a few of these over the years professionally. Many of them are very capable professionally. However, not many of them have been successful relationship-wise because they are a very hard fit — in effect, they are super-powered women who, due to hypergamy, need an even more super-powered man to be happy. Some of them do find that and are successful at… Read more »
It is a bit too easy to imagine him like this:
http://cdn.toonvectors.com/images/35/10804/toonvectors-10804-460.jpg
There is social hierarchy within the women’s circle:
“It may be that his new Alpha impression on his wife isn’t something she will ever recognize or accept as ‘the real him’. And while this frustration plays out in his marriage, he also sees the positive responses from women outside his marriage – women unfamiliar with his Beta past – who readily respond to the Game he applies.”
In this state of limbo, which woman perceives him correctly?
@Leelee – The women who only know the new him.
@LeeLee, that all depends on the genuineness of his transformation. I’ll be addressing this in the last installment of this series.
An Alpha Female is the one the other females think is the hottest and most likely to take their guys or preclude guys giving them attention when around.
Guys don’t care about a girl being DPA it does not cause attraction in men for women.
http://thumbnails108.imagebam.com/41984/8a492d419836465.jpg
Here is an Alpha female… at 22.
And here she is at 44…
There is no doubt what the 44 YO thinks when her 22YO self steps into the room.
@Novaseeker January 27, 2017 at 7:15 am That was well explained. It was even better explained by the six page Introduction to the Way of the Superior Man by David Deida. The emphasis is on directing sexual strategy towards the polarity of the Masculine/Feminine archetypes because that is the how the firmware and hindbrains tend to work evo-psych wise. Six pages is too much to cut and paste, but the introduction is a good read relevant to the Markos discussion: http://ferryfalkenburg.nl/wp-content/uploads/The-Way-of-the-Superior-Man.pdf Hopefully (and I’m not sure if he is) Marko is merely looking to describe “very feminine” for his “alpha”… Read more »
@rugby11 at jan 26 at 4:01p Who Couldn’t and wouldn’t accept any alpha attributes without attempting to tear them down. shit tests all… Your stuck in a state of disassociation. understand this for what it is/was… an emergency survival technique… and bc you are male, you didn’t get the benefit of having female ‘wiring’… which allows them to process these situs with less residual lingering trauma than males… = ‘war brides’ effect in play… so, these types of situs are going to be even MORE traumatic to males… What the fuck is a 10 yr going to do. the best… Read more »
If there are no kids then consider just blowing it up.
Kids are a major reason I’m still trying.
“The Beta in Waiting never had Frame before or during his marriage. In fact, it was just that lack of Frame that made him marriage material for his wife. He was never “Alpha” for her, and in his equalist mindset he believed this was what set him apart and attractive then.”
Boom!!!
“Guys don’t care about a girl being DPA it does not cause attraction in men for women.” I agree with that statement. But in an extended LTR the qualities and virtues of being dynamic, passionate and authentic do contribute to a woman’s value after fucking them. It depend, though how those qualities and virtues are directed. Female DPA qualities can be either creative or destructive, depending on the desired outcome. From the point of view of the man, female DPA can be considered “good” when it supports life (the lifeblood of the relationship) and the man’s interests and “bad” when… Read more »
@Sentient
There is no doubt what the 44 YO thinks when her 22YO self steps into the room.
true enough…lol… but THAT 44 yo still outclasses 90% of the current purple-haired SJW/feminist 22yo girls…lol…
good luck!
Here is more background on what Markos is asking for. What do men really want in the qualities and the virtues of their woman in a LTR. It is from Deida’s book Intimate Communion. The following is all quoted by I think it reads better not putting in in blockquote markup: WHAT DO MEN AND WOMEN REALLY WANT? A SURVEY “It doesn’t matter whether you are a woman or a man. Your sexual essence could still be more Masculine, more Feminine or more Neutral. You may not be fully aware of your true sexual essence, though. It may be covered… Read more »