At the Man In Demand conference I briefly got into the topic of egalitarian equalism and its relation to complementarity during my talk. On my flight home I was jotting down my thoughts about the seminar and one thing I now have plans to do for the next one* is base an entire talk and group discussion about the distinctions between equalism and complementarity as I understand them.
However, for now, consider this post a primer for that talk. I’ve done my best to explain the differences between equalism and complementarity in Equalism and Masculinity and Positive Masculinity vs. Equalism. My detailing the social dynamics and psychological influences men face in an equalist headspace has been a recurrent theme in many of my posts. On occasion I’ve made contrasting comparisons to Complementarity, but until the Red Pill Parenting series I hadn’t gone into the detail I’d like to.
As many of you have already mentioned in the stories you’ve shared, it is usually the father who pushes their children towards a higher standard of success. This is critical for the child to develop into a successful adult that excels in society.
It is usually the mother who coos and coddles their children. This is also necessary, as it’s vitally important for children to feel loved and accepted by their parents. This shows the necessity of the roles of both mothers and fathers in the development of children. If a child faces only criticism, it may have lasting effects on their self esteem. If a child is never criticized, they may never grow up into an adult.
The negative effects of too much coddling are so widespread, that we actually have sayings that illustrate it.
“A ____ only a mother could love”
To understand the dynamic of complementarity first it’s important to consider the theology behind egalitarianism. I tend to use the term egalitarianism and equalism interchangeably, but I do so because I see them both as stems from the same tree of blank-slate humanism. In the first Red Pill Parent essay I made the following case against of a single parent, single gender upbringing of children:
Parenting should be as collaborative and as complementary a partnership as is reflected in the complementary relationship between a mother and father.
It’s the height of gender-supremacism to be so arrogantly self-convinced as to deliberately choose to birth a child and attempt to raise it into the contrived ideal of what that “parent” believes the other gender’s role oughtto be.
This should put the institutionalized social engineering agenda of the Feminine Imperative into stark contrast for anyone considering intentional single parenthood. Now consider that sperm banks and feminine-specific fertility institutions have been part of normalized society for over 60 years and you can see that Hypergamy has dictated the course of parenting for some time now. This is the definition of social engineering.
The idea that a single mother is as co-effective as a father stems from the blank-slate belief that gender is a social construct rather than the physical and psychological manifestation of humans’ evolved mental firmware. While the foundations of this blank-slate theory originated with John Locke in in the 17th century it would be the anima/animus theories of Carl Jung to cement egalitarian equalism into the popular conscious with regard to gender relations.
Tabula Rasa (blank-slate) refers to the epistemological idea that individuals are born without built-in mental content and that therefore all knowledge comes from experience or perception. With the scientific and technical advancements of the 20th and 21st centuries we now have a better understanding of how the human brains of men and women operate from a far more advanced perspective than either Jung or Locke had knowledge of. To be fair, Jung’s presupposition was one that human’s possess innate potentials for both the masculine and feminine (thus the “get in touch with your feminine side” trope for men), but those potentials derive from a presumed-accepted egalitarian base.
Yet still, from a meta-social perspective, western(izing) culture still clings to the blank-slate theoretical models from Jung inspired by Locke and other tabula rasa thinkers of old.
Why is that? Why should it be that for all of our greater understanding of the biomechanics of the human body and it’s influences on behavior that the greater whole of society persists in the belief that men and women possess co-equal gender proficiencies based on an outdated, largely disproven Tabula Rasa model? I would argue that resisting the more obvious and practical model of evolved gender differences presents an uncomfortable proposition of biological determinism to people conditioned to believe gender is a nurture, not nature, proposition.
I’ve opined about Carl Jung’s contributions to our present state of feminine social primacy in the past.
One of the key elements Jung introduced into western culture’s popular consciousness is the theory of anima and animus; that each individual, irrespective of sex, possesses greater or lesser degrees of association and manifested behavior of masculine and feminine psychological affiliations. In 2012, when you hear a 6 year old girl tell a 6 year old boy “you need to get in touch with your feminine side” in order to get him to comply with her, you can begin to understand the scope to which this idea has been internalized into society’s collective consciousness. So long and so thoroughly has this theory been repeated and perpetuated that we can scarcely trace back its origins – it’s simply taken as fact that men and women possess varying degrees of masculine and feminine energies. First and second wave feminism founded their psychological premises of gender on Jung’s ideas and so evolved the reasonings for a push towards the social feminization we know today. The seeds for the feminine-centrism we take for granted today were planted by a Swiss psychiatrist in the early 1900’s.
It’s important to consider Jung’s bi-gender individualities within the individual person in context with Locke’s Tabula Rasa theory because in tandem they constitute the basis of the egalitarian equalism which feminism and our present feminine-primary conditioning rely upon. To the modern egalitarian mind, inequalities in social dynamics, gender conflicts and economic disparities are the result of a deliberate (if not malicious) intent on the part of individuals to limit the presumedly equal potentials of others. Social ills are the conflict between the selfish need of the one versus the equalized need of the many.
There is very little headspace given to the material, innate, mechanics that make up the condition of the individual. Natural talent, innate ability, in-born predispositions, and physical and adaptational advantages stemming from evolved differences – whether a boon or a burden – are either disqualified or marginalized in an egalitarian mindset. The egalitarian, while very humanistic, leans almost entirely on the learned behavior model of human development. It’s Tabula Rasa, and the zeroed-out-at-birth content of the individual is filled by the influence of a society that is corrupted by those who don’t agree with an idealized egalitarian imperative.
Complementarity acknowledges the importance of the inborn differences between the sexes that egalitarianism marginalizes or outright denies exist while recognizing and embracing the strengths and weaknesses those differences represent.
There are many well documented, peer reviewed, scientific studies on the neurological differences between men and women’s brain structure. The easiest evidence of these differences is the cyclic nature of women’s sexuality (versus men’s always-on sexuality) and the neurological/hormonal influences on beliefs, behaviors and the rationalizations for those behaviors prompted by the innate drive to optimize Hypergamy.
Women experience negative emotions differently from men. The male brain evolved to seek out sex before food. And while our feminine-centric social order insists that, in the name of equalism, boys should be forced to learn in the same modality as that of girls, the science shows that boys brains are rudimentarily wired to learn differently.
Stark differences exist in the wiring of male and female brains.
Maps of neural circuitry showed that on average women’s brains were highly connected across the left and right hemispheres, in contrast to men’s brains, where the connections were typically stronger between the front and back regions.
Ragini Verma, a researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, said the greatest surprise was how much the findings supported old stereotypes, with men’s brains apparently wired more for perception and co-ordinated actions, and women’s for social skills and memory, making them better equipped for multitasking.
“If you look at functional studies, the left of the brain is more for logical thinking, the right of the brain is for more intuitive thinking. So if there’s a task that involves doing both of those things, it would seem that women are hardwired to do those better,” Verma said. “Women are better at intuitive thinking. Women are better at remembering things. When you talk, women are more emotionally involved – they will listen more.”
Ironically, in an egalitarian gender-neutral social order, a college professor publicly suggesting that men are more adept at mathematical thinking gets him fired from a lengthy tenure, but when a female researcher suggests the same she’s rewarded with professional accolades and grant money.
As you might expect, this article focuses primarily on the triumphant advantages of the female brain structure, but the studies themselves are revealing of the empirical evidence that men and women are not the functional equals that egalitarianism would insist we are.
The scans showed greater connectivity between the left and right sides of the brain in women, while the connections in men were mostly confined to individual hemispheres. The only region where men had more connections between the left and right sides of the brain was in the cerebellum, which plays a vital role in motor control. “If you want to learn how to ski, it’s the cerebellum that has to be strong,” Verma said. Details of the study are published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
“It’s quite striking how complementary the brains of women and men really are,” Ruben Gur, a co-author on the study, said in a statement. “Detailed connectome maps of the brain will not only help us better understand the differences between how men and women think, but it will also give us more insight into the roots of neurological disorders, which are often sex-related.”
These distinct neurological differences between men and women are evidence of a an evolved intersexual complementarity that has manifested in both the personal and social dynamic of intergender relations for millennia. Conventional gender roles where there is a defined interdependence between the sexes is reflective of precisely the hardwired “stereotypes” researchers were so shocked to discover in men and women’s neural wiring.
Talents and Deficits
I’m often asked what the complementarian model looks like and it’s all too easy to not want to fall into the perceived trap in defining gender roles for men and women as they’ve been for centuries before our own era. Conventionally feminine women and masculine men are ‘shocking’ stereotypes to a society steeped and conditioned to accept the egalitarian model as the norm. The simple fact is that equality is only defined by the conditions and environmental circumstance that make something equal or unequal.
Men and women are biologically, physiologically, psychologically, hormonally and sexually different. This presents a very difficult proposition to an egalitarian mindset – men and women are simply better suited for, better wired, better enabled and better physically capable of succeeding in different tasks, different environments, different socialization, different mental or emotional demands as those circumstances dictate.
We simply evolved for symbiosis between the sexes; the strengths of one compensate for the weakness of the other. Depending on the challenge presented, yes, this means that in our complementarity the difference between a man and a woman are going to be unequal. Much of the gender discord our present society suffers is due primarily to the intentional rejection of this evolved, symbiotic complementarity and its replacement with the fantasy of uninfluenced, independently sustaining equalism. From the egalitarian mindset, the genders are self-sustaining and independent, thus men and women simply have no need for the other.
Though egalitarians will argue it does, complementarity doesn’t imply a universal superiority of one gender or the other. Rather, depending on the task at hand, one sex will be better predisposed to accomplishing it. Furthermore this isn’t to say that the gender-specific deficiencies of one gender cannot be overcome by learning, practice and brain plasticity to achieve the same ends – it is to say that men and women’s brains, and the task specific adaptations of them, predispose them to being better capable of achieving them.
For the better part of this blog’s history I’ve outlined the process of how the Feminine Imperative conditions men to embrace their “feminine sides” and create generations of ready Betas. Most Blue Pill men will fail to identify with the more masculine specificity I’ve outlined above. It’s important to remember that learning to be better at non-gender specificity in an attempt to override this natural gender-wiring is not always a voluntary effort on the part of a person – especially when egalitarian Mom and Dad are in on the conditioning.
When we see the recent popular social effort to embrace transexual acceptance what we’re being asked to do is accept a learning process that countermands a male or female’s evolved neural architecture. Brain plasticity is a marvel of evolution, but it is subject to external manipulation and the ideologies of those doing the manipulating.
There’s been a criticism of western public education’s push to force boys to learn like girls – we treat boys like they are defective girls. This is a prime example of not just a social engineering effort, but an effort in reprogramming boys to override their natural, neurological maleness. Thus they become less effective girls because they are required to think, emote and react in way their brains never predisposed them to.
Likewise there is a popular push to encourage girls to adopt male modalities of thinking. In the hopes to make mathematics and technology fields more gender equal egalitarian society will make special compensation and establish exclusive academic rewards for girls who teach themselves to override their intrinsic mental proficiencies and find intrinsic reward in adopting those of boys.
The egalitarian mindset simply denies the foundational truths that decades of evolutionary psychology, evolutionary biology and anthropological research indicate about our present state of intersexual relations. Inso doing they reject a complementary model and embrace an egalitarian one. Their mistake is presuming that evo-psych necessitates a biological determinism and thereby absolves an individual of personal responsibility for their behavior. It does not, but it does provide a framework that more accurately describes the mental state, sexual strategies and social environment in which men find themselves with women.
When you hear or read the trope that “women are just as sexual as men” what’s being related to you is founded in the same egalitarian root that teaches us to believe that “women are just as good at fathering as any man”. All are equal, but men’s sexuality seems a boon that egalitarian women would like to adopt.
One reason egalitarianism is an appealing cover story for feminism is because its primary goal is leveling the sexual competition playing field for all women to optimize Hypergamy at the expense of men’s own sexual strategy interests. If all is equal, if men’s basic biological impulses are reduced to shamed criminality, if women can expect men to be aroused by their perceived value of their self-defined self-worth, then all material and physiological deficits can be effectively dismissed.
Under the guise of egalitarianism, feminism has effected feminine social dominance for over half a century now.
Egalitarianism is likewise appealing to evo-psych detractors because a belief in egalitarianism should mean that men can escape their burden of performance. I touched on this in the first post of the Adaptations series. The presumption is that if the more intrinsic, ephemeral aspects of men’s higher-order thinking and personal worth is appreciated as a sexual attraction, then all deficiencies in meeting his naturalistic burden of performance can be rescinded. Game, physique, personality, status, success, achievement, etc. are superseded by his equalist belief system and this is sold to him as the new order upon which women should find him attractive.
Complementarity is the evolved interdependence between the sexes and it’s been a responsible element of how the human race has risen to be the apex species on this planet, but it doesn’t ensure an optimal breeding schedule for either sex. So long as men and women are mired in a denial of the evolved psychological differences between the sexes, their only alternative is to embrace egalitarianism.
The reason feminism hates the Red Pill – in its concrete sense – is because it more accurately predicts human behavior than feminism and equalism have ever been capable of.
[…] By Rollo Tomassi […]
“The simple fact is that equality is only defined by the conditions and environmental circumstance that make something equal or unequal.”
Bang human trauma with liberal social stances in conservative home and you have a mental anguish that is what the red pill explains with elegance.
A jar and its lid are complimentary, however, do not attempt to pour a pint of soup into the lid, because they are not equal. “The egalitarian mindset simply denies the foundational truths that decades of evolutionary psychology, evolutionary biology and anthropological research indicate about our present state of intersexual relations.” Never mind the hundreds of thousands of years when everyone thought they were bloody obvious. “Egalitarianism is likewise appealing to evo-psych detractors because a belief in egalitarianism should mean that men can escape their burden of performance.” And then there are the MGTOW who fully embrace evo-psych, but still… Read more »
There are also the studies, which I think Rollo also has mentioned in the past, that distribution the statistical distribution of IQ (or other traits) may have a similar average between male and female populations, but that the male tends to have a larger variability. Of course, these results “remain controversial”… One of these studies is this http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289610000346 From the Abstract: The present study provides male–female ability ratios from over 1.6 million 7th grade students in the right tail (top 5% in ability) across 30 years (1981–2010) using multiple measures of math, verbal, and writing ability and science reasoning from… Read more »
Western culture has been so saturated with Jungian
theory that we don’t recognize it as such.
~Rollo Tomassi, from his book “The Rational Male (Volume 1)”
It’s time to wake up and fix what has gone wrong before it’s too late.
The last sentence is the key of the problem: prediction. When I discovered the red pill I realized that with my previous egalitarian model, I could not predict a lot of behaviors between the sexes. The whole model was full of “exceptions to the rule”. With the RP model, it happened that the exceptions where precisely that, exceptions. Few cases among a lot of the expected behavior. But I guess that you need an analytical mind to see this is to convince yourself that it makes a lot of sense. I also thing that you need to be defeated, to… Read more »
@ Victorictor : my experience is similar to yours. I had serious difficulties understanding women prior to Red Pill knowledge. Now so much more makes sense, and there are few exceptions. I expect some of those exceptions are likely due to my lack of experience with the Red Pill, and fewer will be genuine exceptions because, while AWALT, I believe individuals are not statistical distributions and there are outliers (just not many). A good theory is predictive and can be ruled out or confirmed by testing it against reality. My experience with the scientific method helped me to start unplugging.… Read more »
Sure is human bias. More specific, I would say is feelings against rationality (I sound like a fem o_o), which is natural. When you have some emotional involvement you have difficulties with critical thinking and rationality. This is something we always have to deal with, however, knowing RP I found it easier.
Good morning, gentlemen:
Not too far off topic but I just read this, out at 3AM, in the LA Times about Milo Yiannopoulos:
“My experience with the scientific method helped me to start unplugging. ”
It’s interesting that the godfather of contemporary red pill was Richard Feynman, and even he had to be unplugged by an old school PUA to get started.
The easiest evidence of these differences is the cyclic nature of women’s sexuality
There is a cyclic component to the sexuality of a premenopausal woman, but that component can be greatly overwhelmed by opportunistic libido in a woman. Postmenopausal women can have a very high libido when in the company of an attractive man and there is no cycling component in the libido of a postmenopausal woman.
Hence, the opportunistic nature of a woman’s libido is much more important than any cycling of the libido.
@ kfg : certainly Feynman achieved a chunk of Red Pill knowledge, although I wonder what part of that was due to the “dubious benefit” of having an external circumstance (tuberculosis) remove what was very likely his ONE-itis (1st wife).
Well his PUA friend wouldn’t have taken him out to meet girls and introduce him to jerk game.
“The idea that a single mother is as co-effective as a father stems from the blank-slate belief that gender is a social construct rather than the physical and psychological manifestation of humans’ evolved mental firmware. “ Co-effectiveness is merely the ideologically presented basis for gender social construct. Where one attempts to inculcate and impose a weltanschauung that is does not accord with the natural order, one is forced to rely on ideology – which, in turn requires force to perpetuate in the absence of natural organic expansion. That ideological force is not merely blood, whips and guns – it is… Read more »
I should have entered a few more carriage returns. Apologies.
I don’t think I have ever doubted that women were different (and I don’t know anyone who thinks otherwise) but even so, I am and have always been mystified by female behaviour. One moment you are the flavour of the month, Xmas has come early, and then the next she has gone off with some other guy or is sulking about God-knows-what. Just as you are licking your wounds, she is back again implying that your refusal to take her back shows what an asshole you are. So it goes on. One then begins to expect such behaviour such that… Read more »
Love this. I’m curious though — you wouldn’t agree that men can possess varying degrees of femininity energy or whatever and vice versa? I’m thinking of the idea of being “balanced”.
Male example: A male therapist who is masculine but/and deeply empathetic.
Female example: A stay at home mom who is extremely direct, focused, and goal driven.
I’m curious though — you wouldn’t agree that men can possess varying degrees of femininity energy or whatever and vice versa? This ‘energy’ is applying magical thinking to Jungian theory. Women’s natural predilection for metaphysical ‘chick-crack’ aside, 2nd and 3rd wave feminism have always applied “spiritual, but not religiousness” to their egalitarian model. It’s what’s helped them embed this undercurrent of feminist/egalitarian ideology into mainstream religions. Short answer: No, I don’t. If there is a man you describe (and I don’t doubt there is) his is the result of having been conditioned and socially reinforced to repress his male-specific predilections… Read more »
You might be doing some injustice to Jung (though maybe not to some interpretation of his ideas). His anima and animus are afterall unconscious and therefore not manifested he doesn´t preach becoming nor getting closer the “other”. I have reason to believe the anima is a valid concept: I am aware of an ever returning internal image of a woman who does not resemble any real woman but does “act” very much like me. An I-would-be-this-if-I-were-a-woman creature. As I understand it, the point is not to become or get closer to that imaginary woman it´s just a mental ,projection of… Read more »
An I-would-be-this-if-I-were-a-woman creature. As I understand it, the point is not to become or get closer to that imaginary woman it´s just a mental ,projection of the male self into what the man imagines is a female psyche. I would argue that this mental model is what men hope for the mutually acknowledged concept love they mislead themselves into believing is possible. I’ve touched on the gender differences in concepts of love several times on this blog: http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/27/women-in-love/ http://therationalmale.com/2012/09/10/men-in-love/ http://therationalmale.com/2012/09/11/of-love-and-war/ The social saturation of egalitarianism is one of the greatest contributing factors to this hope for a mutual concept of… Read more »
You should have, definitely. Welcome anyway! I’m just surprised someone wearing the nick “darktriadman” starts by apologizing?
“The idea that a single mother is as co-effective as a father stems from the blank-slate belief that gender is a social construct rather than the physical and psychological manifestation of humans’ evolved mental firmware.” Single moms do an AWFUL job of raising kids, for a variety of reasons, on a variety of levels. The children of single moms (at least the stereotypical situations, where the children never have a father or the parents divorce when they are young), are almost always extreme narcissists and hyper sensitive to any criticism (to wit: one is running our country). The women who… Read more »
Re: single moms
The same could be said for children raised with both parents around, but the father is exceptionally beta, as a lot seem to be.
Hell, might be worse because it gives the child a live-in demonstration of how to discount the value of men.
I have reason to believe the anima is a valid concept: I am aware of an ever returning internal image of a woman who does not resemble any real woman but does “act” very much like me. An I-would-be-this-if-I-were-a-woman creature. As I understand it, the point is not to become or get closer to that imaginary woman it´s just a mental ,projection of the male self into what the man imagines is a female psyche. I agree it is a valid concept and I also have “practical experience” with such internal images of both animus and anima. I think it… Read more »
Both sexes can possess those traits, but they must be learned rather than being more inherent.
Regarding social conditioning. Last time I was in China I was working with a female Chinese girl, probably a few years younger than me. I would say she is probably an equal as far as the hierarchy of our business is concerned. Anyway, I was just sitting in a conference room working on a project and she asked me if I wanted a cup of coffee. I said sure, and she left and got a cup of coffee for me, not one for herself, and she was so happy to do it for me. I was completely floored. That would… Read more »
“female Chinese girl”
I suppose anymore, you just never know whether a girl is a female. lol
Fool me once…
haha, I needs to learn me some gooder english. I can’t write for shit.
If you want to understand sexual balance, please transform to a hermaphrodite and go fakk yourself.
Greater division of labor = greater efficiency of labor. In fact, whether a given society qualifies as a “civilization” or not is often defined in part by how much specialization, of labor that society has. As for wiring within brains, I must wonder whether the relative lack of wiring between the female hindbrain and forebrain (to use un-technical terms) has something to do with a syndrome I think I perceive: the female forebrain being unable to stand up to the female hindbrain shouting at it. Or, to put it more conventionally, females being more emotional and less rational. Not that… Read more »
“But they seem to me to less often follow the conclusions indicated by rationality, whether the issue of the moment is weight loss, quitting smoking, or understanding men.” It could be argues that what you see as “irrational” in women, is actually quite rational decisions on their part, if viewed from a female mental point of origin. Hopelessly hypergamous who posts here is an example of this. Having 5 husbands seems irrational. But she still had 5 husbands. She still had men pining over her. In her mind she traded up from each one, so how was that not rational?… Read more »
you keep saying we evolved to be how we are. I say we were “created” to be this way. Frankly, while suggesting evolution is more people-pleasing than suggesting creation, so that folks won’t just write you off as a nut job Christian, and makes you sound more ‘scientific’… I think it weakens your argument terribly. If we only evolved to be this way, then we can evolve right back the other way. Now that we have conquered nature, we can simply evolve to where women can do that stuff too, and the femmes would make the case that indeed we… Read more »
Hopelessly hypergamous’ sudden “change of heart” with her 5th husband, and her obvious insecurity about being left alone, makes me wonder if the epiphany phase is moving back in age for a lot of women, or if she is just an outlier?
Another brilliant post Rollo…. I found TRP and your blog a year ago. I am 65 and have been married once, going on 37 years to a good woman. We have had our difficult times for sure, but the past year has been the best thanks to you (especially) and others. The comments on these posts have been a gold mine of information also, many thanks to those who take the time to relate their experiences. At age 18 I went from a small rural town to a major, uber liberal university. Within a week, I had a gnawing feeling… Read more »
@Solomon If we only evolved to be this way, then we can evolve right back the other way. This is why the “Because the Bible says so” argument falls in a hole. You just blithely show off your ignorance and expect it to be admired as strength in a place where intellect and ideas are the currency we exchange. A place where debate and understanding the universe we live in and why things work the way they do is more valued than rhetoric and living in denial strictly to prop up our ego invested views. If you don’t like it,… Read more »
@Solomon October 30th, 2015 at 11:08 am
Sorry, Solomon, but my brain is a little foggy this morning. So I might be off base.
But, did you not read the original post, not understand it, or did you just feel the need to change the subject?
@CaveClown She’s way past the wall, so I doubt it’s a full blown ‘epiphany’ re-experience, although her competition anxiety is palpable. What I’ve noticed, since open hypergamy has been unleashed, is the cutthroat, feral behavior in women late thirties and up has ratcheted up to an obscene level. If they can’t secure one of the few remaining ‘available’ men (because of men opting out), they will unashamedly poach one that’s taken. Another ‘benefit’ of open hypergamy. The Sisterhood is crumbling… it’s become ‘dog eat dog’. The chickens have come home to roost, HH knows it and it’s freaking her out.… Read more »
“…expect men to be aroused by their perceived value of their self-defined self-worth.” So true. No matter how many times or how subtle or painfully explicit this belief is rejected, women still expect men to subordinate their attraction to feminine-physical attributes in favor of some “accomplishment” or other intrinsic quality that in reality has little (if any) bearing on sexual attraction. The (sinister) beauty of this is twofold: it transcends the AF/BB sexual strategy and it is fully backed by the FI, which includes the trump card of female emotionalism, aka her Feelz. In her youth, her perceived value is… Read more »
“I assert that if it’s all just evolution, then your case for complementarianism is utterly lost, and the feminists are doing the right thing.”
Well, a special creationist Christian AND and leftist, radical progressive. You don’t see that combo too much these days.
“The same could be said for children raised with both parents around, but the father is exceptionally beta, as a lot seem to be.
Hell, might be worse because it gives the child a live-in demonstration of how to discount the value of men.”
Man I grew up with this… It’s been interesting learning different with what being male and the red pill has taught me.
Something I’ve been wondering for quite some time…why is androgyny the covert goal of feminism? It seems rather counterproductive to go to such lengths to encourage Beta-behavior when women really want an Alpha. Is it just a disconnect between what women believe they should want and what they actually want? Or is it just a giant shit-test that serves the purpose of screening “true” Alphas? If that’s the case, why are they so hell-bent on breaking every guy they can? I have a hard time believing that there are ANY guys that can truly stand their ground in this culture… Read more »
Both sexes can possess those traits, but they must be learned rather than being more inherent. Learning still implies a blank slate if you ask me. In many cases I think that it is more like “training” yourself to consciously override instinctual reactions due to guilt, social pressure, consequences, prevailing wisdom, probably a few hundred other reasons I can’t think of. I suppose you could eventually internalize those reactions, but I think it’s more nuanced than “learning.” I could think of examples in my own life, but it’s more fun to pick on @HopelessHypergamy. After her 4th divorce to her… Read more »
“Learning still implies a blank slate if you ask me.”
You have excluded the middle of a slate with introductory header.
@Solomon, when I commented on your blog about dread I mentioned that I am not a Bible literalist. While I do recognize the truths it represents, I reject the idea that it is the ‘literal’ truth that fundamental Christian evangelicals demand that it be read as. I’ve found that evangelicals will adamantly insist that the Bible be interpreted in its most literal sense when it comes to Genesis and creationism, but once they skip past that chapter the rest of the Bible is free game for interpretation – particularly eschatology and Revelations. Then it’s about analogies, subjectivism and geopolitical interpretations… Read more »
In many cases I think that it is more like “training” I don’t have a problem with training and I agree with you. Women are always going to be, for example, solipsistic. It’s in our nature. But when we feel bad because of something a man said, we can look past that feeling, try to see what he actually said rather than feel what we think he said. Training is a fine way to describe it. It will likely never be inherent like it is in a man, but we can train ourselves to do it. Conversely, I think a… Read more »
@RedGalt CH maxim: The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality While it seems androgyny is the ‘goal’ of egalitarian feminism, and it may well be the result, feminism’s end-goal is creating a social environment in which every woman can optimize Hypergamy. That’s it in theory, in practice it’s a different thing. The idea is that through social engineering it should be possible to create a state where the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy can be enjoyed by any woman, irrespective of any conditions for intimate acceptance men may have for them. Within… Read more »
Way to fall for the evolution troll.
It has been soundly proven both through experimentation and fossil records.
Sure has. I saw Jurassic Park, too. Experimentation, lol.
“a female Chinese girl”
I don’t hang with the other kind.
You have any references for these assertions?
Meant these assertions….
“There is a cyclic component to the sexuality of a premenopausal woman, but that component can be greatly overwhelmed by opportunistic libido in a woman. Postmenopausal women can have a very high libido when in the company of an attractive man and there is no cycling component in the libido of a postmenopausal woman.
Hence, the opportunistic nature of a woman’s libido is much more important than any cycling of the libido.”
@Rollo: “The reason feminism hates the Red Pill – in its concrete sense – is because it more accurately predicts human behavior than feminism….” You’re being too optimistic in drawing this conclusion. Feminist-minded women (including close friends of mine) are inclined to refuse to believe even basic Red Pill observations (e.g., hypergamy): the default is NAWALT, often combined with suspicion of deep sexism. By contrast, the “hate” you describe would depend on recognizing that Red Pill observations are often true — which would be a victory of sorts. Feminist-minded women do seem willing to admit, though, that the 80/20 rule… Read more »
@razor “As a man who (unfortunately) gives off too much provider vibe (I’m working on that), I’ve become more attuned to this as a kind of BB tell. If a woman wants to compare resumes, so to say, I assume she is straight up the fairway into BB and is really just asking me to qualify to her. Next. But being in my early 40’s, this is nearly all women within 10 years junior.” Don’t kid yourself.. men our age depend on the provider vibe, to some degree, to get the girls we want (i.e. younger or prettier). Rollo can… Read more »
@Rollo.. didn’t mean to shit on the thread and go completely OT.. but it is a confusing place.. this place razor and I are in, so I wanted to reach out.
@razor.. I’m no guru, so take the above for what it’s worth. I just think *our* takeaways from TRP, must necessarily be slightly different from those of the younger generations who have the real concerns of finding a quality woman to start a family with in this SMP, rather than just someone to fuck, or have a non-childbearing LTR with..
You want my attention so bad? Say something worth discussing.
““Learning still implies a blank slate if you ask me.”
You have excluded the middle of a slate with introductory header.”
I’ve observed evidence of a libido in postmenopausal women.
I’ve heard reports of women throwing their panties at rock stars. I’ve heard reports of women bedding apex alphas like Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Clinton. This kind of behavior indicates an opportunistic libido in women.
I’ve observed postmenopausal women having libidos around me. This isn’t explained by cycling.
This doesn’t seem at all controversial.
You’re breaking up.
Rollo, Once again I must chastise your interchangeable use of Egalitarianism and Equalism. I disagree with nothing about what you are trying to convey and have the highest regard for your motives and work. However, you are doing great harm to egalitarian social ethics by attacking a word that means something specific in that context. Having equal rights (which is what Egalitarians advocate) implies nothing about one’s personality, character, or other differences we may have as individual human beings. While I am at it I might point out that a right cannot require the existence of another, much less their… Read more »
@GW, funny, I got chastised for using ‘Equalism’ instead of “Egalitarianism’ in the last thread.
Razorwire, “It is almost like the AF/BB follows a kind of HB/CV; “look how hot I am” (AF) becomes “here is my curriculum vitae” (BB). The dating sites bear this out, painfully.” Yeah who really wants a date (job interview) with one of these post wall executive-types? I used to take some minor delight in critiquing their profiles by emails, but tired of it quickly. Most didn’t answer, but did edit sometimes. The result was never an improvement because their ego couldn’t let go of the idea that their resume proves they’re entitled to the best men and the CV… Read more »
You err in thinking that Rollo’s accurate observations about women are in any way dependent on evolution theory. Evolution theory is merely a rhetorical gloss that Rollo applies to his observations.
In support of your overall theme. The ideal that people are blank slates (or by any other means, comparable to inorganic matter or bacteria in a petri dish) is to devalue both the value (to everyone in society) and the ethical basis for individual free will. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our… Read more »
To be fair, a good portion of Creationists would also be regarded as Dominionist, of which many believe that parts such as the physical return of Jesus once the temple of Solomon is rebuilt are quite literal. The beginning and the end are quite literal to them.
The stuff in the middle though, yeah it’s pretty much all about seeing what you want to in it.
“Don’t kid yourself.. men our age depend on the provider vibe, to some degree, to get the girls we want (i.e. younger or prettier). ”
Amen to that. I did leave the jacket at home once or twice, as Yareally suggested, but not anymore…..
@Chump If they can’t secure one of the few remaining ‘available’ men (because of men opting out), they will unashamedly poach one that’s taken. Lemme point out here that due to the obesity crisis a man wishing to be with an attractive woman is pretty much forced to poach as well. I don’t like it, but I’m personally finding that I have to be ready to engage in Boyfriend/Husband Destroyer material with basically every one of the attractive women I meet if I want to hook up with them. It’s exhausting, I’m not that great at it yet, I don’t… Read more »
The complimentarity discussion touches occurs against a backdrop of traditional Roman Catholic teachings regarding the roles of man and woman in marriage and in the church. That discussion informed the development of natural law discussions about sexuality, which are only at one remove from Catholic doctrine. It’s interesting to see Red Pillers getting to the most traditional of traditionalist traditions, but doing so via Jung, observation and reasoning. It’s as if there were something solid to that old Catholic social doctrine. after all. Not like the Catholic Church at a parish level or bishops/social policy level does a good job… Read more »
@Sun Boyfriend Destroyer game is nothing more than being the epitome of White Knight, as a PUA tactic. I hope the lay is worth your complete sellout at the expense of your brethren. Face it dudes, you can’t claim to be in favor of the old rules, promoting their return, advancing the cause of men, and bringing hypergamy into check, while simultaneously facilitating the act itself. I know Rollo will likely have a choice rebuttal to this.. something related to eat, pray, love.. but the truth of the matter is, a man already invested in a woman deserves the support… Read more »
The complimentarity discussion touches occurs against a backdrop of traditional Roman Catholic teachings regarding the roles of man and woman in marriage and in the church.
Yeah, it’s obvious that we’re relearning an old lesson. Hopefully this time, with the internet, it won’t be forgotten.
@TuffLuv I’m not saying it doesn’t suck, but for a 44 year old man to think game, self-improvement, and hitting the gym will pan out to young hotties wanting to fuck him *purely* based on alpha attraction is disingenuous The best comment I have read, for the older guys…..RM has to be tweaked for the “older guy” and if you don’t think so, you are just not old. The line of “being desired” to have sex, not realistic in a 30 year marriage. After having sex 1800 times with the same person, I doubt any of you could ever do,… Read more »
The slate does not have to be blank or full. It can be partly full and partly to be written on. That the slate can be written on does not imply that the slate is blank, or even that the blank portion can written on with anything at all.
If you read any of the books by Steven Pinker (and particularly his ones on how humans learn language) you will realize just how much is already written on that blank-slate.
Good article, Rollo. However, I’m not convinced it has to be one or the other; evo-biology creating hard, in nascent, sexual identities v. social conditioning which is 100% responsible for sexual identity, or lack thereof. What about a 3rd option on latent bio mechanics? Yes, men and women seem to be unequivocally hardwired differently, but it’s still the same hardware (more or less) that is simply rearranged and powered with somewhat different fuels (hormones). The animal world has multiple examples of species wherein one sex can step in to fulfill the role of the opposite sex in times of great… Read more »
@TuffLuv Boyfriend Destroyer game is nothing more than being the epitome of White Knight, as a PUA tactic … you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and should probably avoid commenting on it until you don’t say stupid shit like this. You want to expect a communal “bro’s before ho’s” amongst all men, you’re in for a rude shock. Outside of maybe a few good friends, you are competing with every single other man out there interested in the same woman you are. I don’t give a fuck about the old rules. That is something White Knights buy… Read more »
@Tuff, it’s only a BF destroyer if you have prior knowledge of the BF:
After having sex 1800 times with the same person, I doubt any of you could ever do, or want to do, that. do you not think that desire would diminish? Give it a rest. I would rather fuck some young hottie and so would my wife but when we want to fuck it is because we need to fuck…..
I’m a younger guy and when I tried to make this point a few posts ago it really pissed off some old guys.
If you want the “old rules” back, the guys that will commiserate and whine with you about it are here. Those rules ain’t comin’ back in our lifetimes.
I’m early 30’s, is that young or old?? lol But yeah, I have no idea how “genuine desire” is supposed to sustain itself for a longer LTR, for either him or her. Yareally at one time was talking about 7-10 expiring marriage certificates, so that the marriage could end without all the drama of divorce, and on good terms. I really like this idea the more I think about it. Re: married chicks 4 of my last 5 lays were married or engaged women. They were on the prowl, if I had not banged them someone else would have. Good… Read more »
The slate does not have to be blank or full. It can be partly full and partly to be written on. That the slate can be written on does not imply that the slate is blank, or even that the blank portion can written on with anything at all.
Lovely. I think I’ll have that etched on a slate and hung in my dining room…
So, I guess my point was that writing something on the slate that contradicts what was already written on the slate is not “Learning.”
@CaveClown What’s weird is I have never once felt guilty for stepping out on my wife, but I feel guilty helping women step out on their husbands. I wouldn’t call that weird. I’d say it makes sense. She had honestly wronged you. Part of marriage is the implied lifetime supply o’ sex. When she withdraws that, you feel understandably duped and angry. Plus, it’s a need for a man. It’s gotta be filled. With banging attached chicks, you’re putting yourself in the other dude’s shoes because it’s not hard. Don’t do it. They’d very likely do the same to you… Read more »
@sun I know exactly what I’m talking about. Go read the script.. A BD practitioner simply steps in and tells her how right she is when she bitches about her man.. that she shouldn’t sell herself short, that he doesn’t deserve her, etc.. Total.. white knight.. pussy pandering.. bullshit. It might just be the easiest PUA method of all, because it requires almost no skill. RP men are thinkers, by definition, and no RP man can engage in that activity knowingly, without acknowledging two facts 1) he doesn’t know SHIT about her man.. nada.. nothing.. 2) The chances that he… Read more »
“I’m early 30’s, is that young or old?? lol”
I’m mid 30’s. So I consider that young.
If you think that evolutionary theory is wrong do you think that another empirical based science theory could ever be right? Or do you believe that life on earth is inherently the product of supernaturalism?
In short do you believe that a supernatural being created life on earth? Yes or no?
Actually Tuffluv, the best destroyer script is implying that the husband or boyfriend is a very “nice guy” and that she is getting exactly what she deserves with him because she is a “nice girl”, but yet as “nice” as she is, how can she possibly stand the lack of excitement in her life because you only live once and heaven forbid you look back one day and regret all the fun you missed out on.
Then they try to prove you wrong.
Fair enough Rollo.. Knowingly running White Knight Hard Up Bitch Boy Poser game (my new name for BD) is a different story.
I’ve heard reports………
I’ve heard reports……….
I’ve observed ………..”
Hello Guys, I am just starting to comment after being an avid observer for many months. Rollo and some other smart guys here have helped me/us a lot! Thanks to all of you!! My personal story is that I am married with three kids. Fortunately, I am married to a (IMO SMV 7) foreigner (raised semi-red pill because of hardship in her country) who is a decade younger than me. 1 year ago, Before discovering the wealth of knowledge in the manosphere, especially Rollo. I have always been very strong willed, brave, and stubborn, more loner than social alpha since… Read more »
That’s assuming there was a script at all, as most cheating married chicks decided long ago to cheat and are just plain DTF.
All of the married chicks I was with didn’t want to leave their hubs, so I was a “safe” pick for them being married myself. (being discreet)
To what degree might people have such latent capacities to ensure survival in extreme situations?
Yogi, I wonder if this is why they find that men’s testosterone has been falling for the last few decades. I wouldn’t be surprised if women’s has been rising. I know that fans of winning sports teams get a boost in testosterone while fans of the losing team lose testosterone. I wonder if our beta upbringing results in a long slow draining of testosterone. Or perhaps beta’s pass on their propensity for low testosterone epigenetically.
Must resist,…C&P’ing GW’s story,…to AVfM and Dean Esmay’s,…twitter feed,…
“She had honestly wronged you. Part of marriage is the implied lifetime supply o’ sex. When she withdraws that, you feel understandably duped and angry. Plus, it’s a need for a man. It’s gotta be filled.” Not to derail the topic here, but this is related to your words above. She’s giving daily porno style sex now (except anal) Waiting on me hand and foot outside the bedroom too. Texts. Common courtesies. (I actually went to marriage counseling this last year just to insist on common courtesies from her…beta to the max lol) Asking for my permission on things. Asking… Read more »
I’m so fucking confused…
Ugh, that’s fucked up.
I’m so fucking confused
Why? I don’t know your whole story, but if you are having sex with other women, she is simply trying to prove to you that she is of higher value than those other women.
She doesn’t know about that.
And its been a bit since the last time, I’m not actively gaming right now.
My guess is my SMV has gone way up, her SMV has gone way down, and she is trying to secure her beta bucks.
“My guess is my SMV has gone way up, her SMV has gone way down,”
Pushing out that first kid is like driving a car off the lot. Instantly drops 10% in value.
You’re butthurt by the kind of guys that stole chicks from me. I’m learning from them. You don’t get effective BD at all, but CaveClown does.
You don’t have a clue. Get one.
DING! Stingray got it. You’ve demonstrated higher value. Rejecting a woman while fucking other women is pretty much the ultimate DHV, and you’ve done it. Don’t be fooled or confuses, just keep moving on your divorce.
“Don’t be fooled or confuses, just keep moving on your divorce.” Must…fight…the…oneitis…and…easy…sex… Easier said than done, as my game has SUCKED lately, and I am having a self confidence crisis over my 5’8″ stature. (I know, whine whine, lol) “You’re butthurt by the kind of guys that stole chicks from me. I’m learning from them. You don’t get effective BD at all, but CaveClown does.” Meh, I’m not very good at it though. I’m not the tall strapping alpha you cheat on your husband with…but I did have some success. Tuffluv’s version of BD game would result in being her… Read more »
I know I made a monster (dump) comment above. I forgot to add what first incentivized me to take action, which may be interesting to some. She had packed some food in bag for friends of ours. When I went to the door to deliver the bag, I didn’t realized the inner plastic container was not well sealed (and of course she didn’t tell me). When I didn’t carry it by the plastic container it leaked all over the bag and my wife (behind me) was embarrassed at chastised me in front of them. I almost lost it right there,… Read more »
GW, good work dude!
Seriously, pat yourself on the back, and keep up the momentum!
@TuffLuv “I know exactly what I’m talking about. Go read the script.. A BD practitioner simply steps in and tells her how right she is when she bitches about her man.. that she shouldn’t sell herself short, that he doesn’t deserve her, etc.. Total.. white knight.. pussy pandering.. bullshit. It might just be the easiest PUA method of all, because it requires almost no skill.” Making complete bullshit up works a lot better when you aren’t on the Internet where some asshole like me can link the Boyfriend Destroyer stuff and intelligent men who have critical thinking skills can read… Read more »
Also type “rsd shift” on YouTube and skip the first few vids that are just hyping the product up and watch the rest of the playlist, especially any titles that stand out to you as sticking points you have. Shift is absolute gold, covers literally everything there is to cover about inner game. And Julien’s Pimp is everything you need to know about outer game *IN OUR CURRENT INFINITE-VALIDATION 2015 ERA WHERE GIRLS PHONES ARE LITERALLY SHOWERING THEM IN FREE ATTENTION 24/7 THAT MAKES THEM FLAKE WHEN IN 2005 THEY WOULD BE CHASING YOUR DICK BEGGING FOR AN LTR* lol… Read more »
Fuck, I ALWAYS hit the page break lol I gotta start looking at the post count before I write shit. Jump back a page for some YaReally ranting.
now that you are famous (dailymail, daily mirror) are you going on any talk or radio shows? is the FI hunting you down for being rapey?
Folks… Why you even care?
For “red pill” aware men, this “feminine imperative” is a good thing.
It means you will have more chicks to fuck for yourselves.
Each and every one Beta deserves shitty life (it’s a “punishment” for being stupid/ignorant/not curious enough to learn about social engineering/conditioning, etc.). If one just takes everything for granted, and live “happy” life as a “tool” (“beta bucks”), it’s his problem.
Learning how a car works is not the same as complaining about that car’s performance.
@Andy: I missed a word in my earlier comment, it should have read “or even that the blank portion can written on with just anything at all.” The header may contain limits and prohibitions about what can be written on the blank part. As for the testosterone issue, that and lowered female fertility, increased rate of homosexuality and even infanticide are things I have been pointing out, ever since people began wringing their hands over lowered reproduction, that I expected to happen. There is the idea floating around out there that reproductive success for a species means having as many… Read more »
Exactly the equalist pablum I’ve come to expect from a generation of men taught to loath their own gender:
@ Stop_Bitchin’ there are many reasons to care. Several presented by Rollo: http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/26/whats-your-problem/ Owning the risk of looking like a White Knight beta, I would add to those that I care also because the FI is inadvertently screwing many women over. We all had at least a mother, and many of us have some other women we care about (wives in some cases, daughters, sisters). Even if you only care about having more chicks for yourself, things like fat acceptance would affect you negatively. Selfishness is a good thing, but some degree of selflessness was also naturally selected for in… Read more »
Note to self: YaReally really digs Halloween.
@Rollo I would argue that resisting the more obvious and practical model of evolved gender differences presents an uncomfortable proposition of biological determinism to people conditioned to believe gender is a nurture, not nature, proposition. That discomfort is not something they can easily do anything about. They have invested themselves in the notion that they are malleable, that they can do anything. That’s a very seductive thought, a very very pretty lie. Once you’ve accepted the blank slate premise, the idea that you can make yourself anything, reality seems too limiting. Frankly, reality seems quite wrong when your basis for… Read more »