The Reconstruction III

 

I added this video today to illustrate a point, watch it carefully and with a Red Pill Lens. In this post-sexual revolution 2017 there is a strong want for the fulfillment of what I call the Old Books socio-sexual model goals. I’ll be impressed if you can stomach even half of the boilerplate ‘Man Up’ message in this video, but watch it carefully because it illustrates the dichotomy of a social order that’s been founded on feminine-primacy for over six decades now.

On a side note, I think it should be recognized that even ostensibly conservative thought leaders often toe the line for the Feminine Imperative more effectively than the progressives they attempt to disparage. I’m not going to riff on this video as I think most of my readers will understand the subtext being communicated here, but it’s an interesting exposé of the old books expectation of “doing the right thing”. Granted, it’s the same message of shaming men for exactly what I covered in Are You Experienced?  Only this time the shame for men comes from another man (we’re supposed to respect?) while he attempts to sell the same message that Sheryl Sandberg does in Open Hypergamy,… Be like Ward Cleaver (he’s a stud) and in time, nothing’s sexier.

When we consider that western cultures have consolidated on feminine social primacy, and a women’s-needs-first way of interpreting any social dynamic, things get a bit easier when you distill the intent down from a social scale to a personal scale. What’s being related in this video is the desire to socially, culturally, change the definition of what should be considered “sexy” by women in spite of all evolved arousal and attraction cues they’re subject to. The presumption this is based upon is that attraction is a social construct and therefor something that can be changed.

If a man does everything by the book, if he does everything right, if he accepts the responsibilities feminine-primacy expects of him, he can be considered an adult, and he can assume his chances of being considered ‘sexy’ by women and certainly his own wife.  In so accepting this definition of his burden of performance women will appreciate the equity he accrues in the relationship by investing himself in it.

From a Red Pill perspective we see this for what it is, the old books social contract that is still being sold to a generation of men who increasingly are seeing it for the life-changing lie it is. However, I’ll have you note the final summation of the video where men are encouraged to see adulthood as getting married, becoming a father and working hard to buy a home. I could argue that there are no June Cleavers left in the world or that getting married is a high-risk, low yield gamble. I could argue that becoming a father only makes a man fall in line with the ridiculous or hated caricature popular culture has made of them. I won’t even start on the risks of the housing market.

For all of this, the desire is still a return to a social contract wherein men are conditioned to believe that they will be rewarded for doing everything right. That old school notion has become the Beta bait of the past 3 generations.

As I mentioned in the last installment of this series, most men who are ‘awakened while married’ want to apply their Red Pill awareness in such a way that they might achieve this idyllic state that the guy in this video assures us is possible if we’d all just Man Up. Most married Red Pill (MRP) men are looking to save their marriages. They see it as a key to getting a woman to appreciate his investment in her, in their kids, in his marriage, his dedication to ‘doing everything the right way’,

Much in the same way that single Red Pill guys will (initially) focus on Red Pill awareness and Game in order to eventually connect with their Dream Girls, so too does the MRP guy. The difference being that he’s convinced he’s already married to his dream girl and the only thing between him and that ideal life with her is finding the formula to achieve the life-plan this video elaborates.

As I said before, most married men’s first intent when they unplug isn’t to divorce their wives, hit the clubs and spin plates. His first thought is “how do I get her to come around to appreciating me?” or “How do I get back to the kind of sex we had (or I think we could)?” I think it’s important for men, both Red Pill singles and MRP to disabuse themselves of the Blue Pill goals they think might ever be achievable with Red Pill awareness. I say this because it put that awareness into the perception of it being a cure to their problems. While it may seem noble to a newly unplugged guy to want to use his new superpower of Red Pill awareness for good (not for evil) and valiantly use it to do the right thing for his wife, his desire to do so is still founded in a Blue Pill conditioning that’s taught him he’ll be appreciated for it.

It may be that his new Alpha impression on his wife isn’t something she will ever recognize or accept as ‘the real him’. And while this frustration plays out in his marriage, he also sees the positive responses from women outside his marriage – women unfamiliar with his Beta past – who readily respond to the Game he applies. That new positive reinforcement with outside women contends with his wife’s negative reinforcement inside his marriage.

The following quote was part of a comment from ollieoxenfree in last week’s thread:

Who sees you as a viable long term option and is eager to please (in fact has pleased on many occasions) but is aware you may never reciprocate in kind. Will he waste his best years coveting something he may never have? Wouldn’t it be better to entertain a slightly lesser, suitor and be their top priority?

If a wife can no longer give of herself, does she still see fit to demand the level of investment as when she did? Can a man still appreciate the tacit approval his wife offers him, in not questioning his whereabouts when he’s engaged in an extramarital affair. Does she show affection and support in other ways?
The truth is most women under the influence of the Feminine Imperative don’t support their partners, nor cultivate an understanding with them in regards to the limits of their sexual capacity.

Men, for their part, like to think sexual intercourse with their partners, will always be available, given time and circumstance. The reality is, it isn’t.
Our biologies weren’t meant to tolerate these conditions. Especially with a woman who will constantly shit test you and emasculate you, in every conceivable way she can divine.

A woman will invariably condemn you for your weakness, but expect understanding for hers.

Common Experiences

There is a school of thought about being Red Pill and married that believes that getting a wife (or LTR girlfriend) to accept the ‘new you’ as being impossible. Things may nominally improve due to Dread working, but your new Red Pill marriage will never be what you want it to be because you have improved, she hasn’t and she never wanted you this way in the first place.

I don’t accept this assessment in its entirety, however I do see where this sentiment comes from. Most men who are awakened while married are men who followed the same script as the men I illustrate in Betas in Waiting. These are the men who have ‘done everything right’ for the better part of their lives. They cultivated themselves to be the perfect providers that Sheryl Sandberg would have women believe will be waiting for them when their looks begin to fade and it’s time to cash out of the SMP. These are the men who believe their hard work and perseverance is finally paying off with a women who now find him irresistible because he represents their salvation in long term security and parental investment.

Most women entering their Epiphany Phase are expressly looking for a Beta to take care of them now that the Party Years are coming to an end for her. They’re (ostensibly) done with the Bad Boys (something they had to ‘grow out of’) and now want to do things ‘the right way’. This, of course, suits a Beta in Waiting just fine because his Blue Pill conditioning has prepared him by expecting him to ‘do things the right way’ and to believe any woman wanting to do the same must be a Quality Woman.

These men believe their ship has finally come in, but because of this these men are often the most difficult to unplug. They have the hardest time with Red Pill awareness because in accepting it they must also accept that what led up to their marriage to that Quality Woman was also a result of their Blue Pill conditioning. A lot of their ego is invested in Beta Game and Blue Pill convictions, but also a forced-convincing of themselves that they did everything right and were rewarded for it.

This is why it’s a bitter pill to swallow when that guy’s wife drip-feeds him sex, or he discovers her sexual best was reserved for another man in her past, or she tells him she loves him, but she’s not in love with him. Even in the face of outright disrespect or his Beta confirmations of failed shit tests, he’ll still refuse to acknowledge his state. Often it’s only prolonged sexlessness (and even this is rationalized for a long time) that motivates him to seek the answers of Red Pill awareness.

The Beta in Waiting never had Frame before or during his marriage. In fact, it was just that lack of Frame that made him marriage material for his wife. He was never “Alpha” for her, and in his equalist mindset he believed this was what set him apart and attractive then.

So going from this very strong Beta initial impression to an Alpha position of dominance can be all but impossible – particularly if his self-confirmed status was that of being a proud Beta.

There are other men who’ll report having had an Alpha status prior to their marriage, but they lost it somewhere along the way. They were the Alpha backsliders who possibly entered into the marriage with a dominant Frame, but this dissolved as his wife’s Frame or insecurities about him came to dominate their relationship. I think this is likely the scenario that provides the most believability when a man becomes awakened while married, because it is a return to a prior impression (or one his wife had hoped he’d find) and therefor more believable when he does.

The ‘tamed’ Alphas are also the guys with wives who’ll try to actively minimize his Red Pill transformation. Their wives are simultaneously aroused by this rekindling of his Alpha dominance and fearful that he will come to see her as the failed investment she likely is for him. That may or may not be the actual case for him, but for her it will prompt possessiveness, surveillance and a control over how he’s allowed to ‘appropriately’ express this dominance – which in turn disqualifies it.

In the last installment of this series I will outline some ways in which a Red Pill man might go about internalizing this transformation, how that might manifest itself in an authentic way, and also the pitfalls to be aware of that can stifle it.

554 comments

  1. Thank you so very much. Thank you. Thank you.

    In what seems an insane world, it is nice to know that I am not the crazy one. Not sure how I could have coped otherwise.

    Awakened while married, and still struggling,

    Dave

  2. The Beta in Waiting never had Frame before or during his marriage. In fact, it was just that lack of Frame that made him marriage material for his wife. He was never “Alpha” for her, and in his equalist mindset he believed this was what set him apart and attractive then.

    So going from this very strong Beta initial impression to an Alpha position of dominance can be all but impossible – particularly if his self-confirmed status was that of being a proud Beta.

    Getting a good pair of Glasses, taking the Red Pill, leads to a wail of “I don’t know who you are anymore!” that can surely be part of a mammoth array of shit tests as she runs through her Rolodex, including everything that ever worked even once all the way back to High School.
    In order to rewire her neural pathways a man might have to actually move her to a different city, different job, different social scene where it will be easier for him to proceed to the Alpha he can be.

    If she’s worth it. That’s a problem- Beta Bob may have been grateful for whatever girl he could catch as she jumped off of the carousel, but when he becomes Alpha Bob … and sees with his own eyes just how much more / better women he could get …. there’s a crisis waiting.

    There are other men who’ll report having had an Alpha status prior to their marriage, but they lost it somewhere along the way. They were the Alpha backsliders who possibly entered into the marriage with a dominant Frame, but this dissolved as his wife’s Frame or insecurities about him came to dominate their relationship. I think this is likely the scenario that provides the most believability when a man becomes awakened while married, because it is a return to a prior impression (or one his wife had hoped he’d find) and therefor more believable when he does.

    Completely agree with this. We have men saying exactly this: Sentient, HABD just for a start.
    She wants that Alpha she used to have back, so there’s more latitude for change and mistakes.

    Beta Bob just has to shovel the gravel for a while.

  3. We all know good guys that qualify as “Ward Cleavers.” I guess I prefer the Ward Cleaver to the metrosexual or the hipster, but we know women don’t desire any of them.

    I’ve found most Ward Cleaver types to be fairly useless except as casual friends. They are too afraid to do what they want, because they believe the propaganda, even when their wives openly complain about how dull they are. Even open disdain from their wives will not make some of them change course. Unfortunately, organized religion often reinforces the same propaganda, making it even harder for guys that want to do the right thing.

    I was fairly red pilled when I met my wife (thanks in large part to my first, catastrophic marriage to a bitch who rationed out sex). When I finally decided that I was going to have sex regularly, it was easy to discard wife #1 and everything about that setup. A few years later, wife #2 met me during a time when I was spinning a few plates, even though I had no idea it was called “spinning plates.”

    My red pill awakening (i.e. actually learning the tenets of the red pill) came later and had the effect of confirming ALL of my personal experience, bolstering my confidence at reading people accurately.

    I’ll say this about being MRP: I don’t regret it at all. If something ever took a turn for the worse in my marriage, I would openly and honestly end it, and go back to plate spinning. I just don’t see this as a problem. If you take care of yourself, and are committed to that, then other things tend to take care of themselves.

  4. I was talking to three business associates the other night: all middle-aged men, betas, dejected, and losers in the sexual marketplace. Yet still, they cling so desperately to the “old books” that you mentioned. It’s as if their entire identity is wrapped up in this fallacious school of thought. It failed them so many times….but next time! Yes, maybe next time!

    It reminds me of the football fan of a losing team. They’re had 47 straight losing seasons. But by golly, next year is going to be different!

  5. It is woman who is evolved or formed to serve man. Not the opposite as this Leave it to Beaver bullisit prppaganda sell touts. They could find this example analogy only in TV sitcom crap fantasy because that is the only place where it really endures. Only self denegrading cowards fall for this crap now.

  6. Look at the narrator. Who would buy any idea of what masculinity is or should be from such a fat fuck plump dweeby wuss hair adapose anyway?

  7. Well Tomassi, you probably won’t be surprised, but I don’t like this post as much as your last one. In fact, I find this one to be biter, nihilistic, and devoid of hope. You do not say one positive thing about the whole institution of marriage,the societal and cultural benefits, or the fact that many,many men have indeed found joy and satisfaction there.

    “Things may nominally improve due to Dread working, but your new Red Pill marriage will never be what you want it to be because you have improved, she hasn’t and she never wanted you this way in the first place.”

    You say you do not agree with this assessment in it’s entirety, but your attitude,words,and other ideas show no real evidence of that. “Nominally” is an especially revealing word, almost comical in this context. Who wants a nominal marriage? Nominal sex? That’s not marriage, that’s like base level survival, barely tolerable. It doesn’t have to be like that, it can be incredible,more than we ever imagined.

    I’m curious, what makes you different from BGR with his tragic view of, “just put a cloth over her medusa face and be grateful she’s doing her God given duty?” That has to have been the most gawd awful expectation of marital life I’ve ever read. My point being,if we aren’t even going to dare to dream here, than you’re going to get exactly that, a crap sandwich you just want to walk away from.

  8. Well, I will say this.
    June Cleaver seems to have a special place of contempt in the FI.
    One won’t typically here these chants:
    “I’m no Carol Brady!”
    “I’m no Harriet Nelson!”
    (insert other television mother/wife of choice).

    The “I’m no June Cleaver” movement is where it’s at.

  9. Matriarchal power is founded upon feminine sexuality. Men have always been the conquers, creators, protectors and providers, not women. Masculine sexuality is desired by woman. She can only bargain primarily by offering her sexuality, for she has little else to offer other than servile functions. Man posses both his sexuality and his far superior abilities to conquer, create, protect and provide. History tells the truth about the performance of both genders in case anyone cares to verify. Male sexuality, conquest, creativeness, protection, provisioning, these are all bargaining values only man can comprehensively offer to any significant effect. Man has far more to offer. Man comes to the table with the winning hand given to him by nature. Woman may claim she controls reproduction as a bargaining value but this is false trickery because she cannot reproduce without man and she desires it at least as much as he, possibly more considering her maternal instinct. For these reasons, man is born into the dominate position, innately established. Woman cannot overcome her innate subordination. No amount of femininsim, lies, deceptions, or the vilification of men for being men will confirm her dominance. They are merely futile frustrations confirming her insubordination. Man is notorious for overcoming his subgation, review history again to confirm. But today, most men do not know these truths as most have been deceived, brainwashed and beaten down into cowards who believe they are less than woman and must qualify for her approval.

  10. “Man is notorious for overcoming his subgation . . .”

    Perhaps the video would have had more of the desired impact if Jim Geraghty didn’t look like a man who couldn’t overcome a stern look.

  11. Here is what I did to regain my alpha frame in my marriage. I bought a lakefront vacation home 20 minutes from my main residence. I rent out the front half and use the back lakeside portion as my”man-cave/ music studio. I spend 1-2 nights per week there by myself, ( or with a plate). The effect of “dread” really works. I am treated very well by my wife of 30 years these days!

  12. SORSERIGOD aka CEO Nikolic aka something else

    In today’s world…

    …we don’t need insecure men flogging their own website in Rollo’s comments.

  13. May I say one more thing about the video? I too have discussed and commented on it pretty thoroughly. What ever else I think, Tomassi is quite right in his assessment of the video. Ward Cleaver is actually not a stud at all, he’s more like the kind of man that drives you to having an addiction to antidepressants and suicidal tendencies. Or perhaps just an affair with the milk man. June Cleaver is not content, she’s actually locked in her own Stockholm syndrome.

    Tomassi also nails it here, “If a man does everything by the book, if he does everything right, if he accepts the responsibilities feminine-primacy expects of him, he can be considered an adult, and he can assume his chances of being considered ‘sexy’ by women and certainly his own wife.”

    A man who “does everything right, does everything by the book,” is totally boring, not sexually appealing. Even worse, he thinks his own goodness means “he can assume his chances of being considered ‘sexy’” That’s what women actually mean when we say male entitlement. He believes he is entitled by virtue of his own “goodness.” We want men entitled by virtue of their own “badness.”

    Also when he believes doing everything right means “he can assume his chances of being considered ‘sexy’” it shifts the whole burden of performance onto women. Now he is a chore, an obligation. Being a “good boy” and being an obligation are two things that will douse women’s sexual feelings because now we’re feeling maternal. Maternal feelings are not sexual feelings.

  14. insanitybytes22 at 4:37 pm

    There you go again. Living in a world of how things should be rather than how they are.

    You do not say one positive thing about the whole institution of marriage,the societal and cultural benefits, or the fact that many,many men have indeed found joy and satisfaction there.

    Nor will the manosphere say one positive thing about the institution. And you know that but continue to advocate for that which benefits the sisterhood and The Church. We get it/you. But we don’t accept the consequences of blindly adhering to the old set of books. Because of the Red Queen Hypothesis. Things change and men have free will. Clinging to old institutions might just get a man a treadmill fail, even if he doesn’t actually get ahead on the treadmill.

    It doesn’t work that way. The Red Pill is Amoral (not immoral, one has free will) and it is a praxeology. Stop with the lecturing propagandist pablum because it is irrelevant here. It is not what this blog is about. In other words it is just SPAM.

    If we could only telepathically get to choose what commenters take their ball and go home…….

  15. They really can’t get over video games.
    Bigger font is better.

    Didn’t need to be that big, but it’s better.

  16. insanitybytes22 at 6:16 pm

    Is this the point at which you get schizophrenic?

    What would you have your son do with a woman?

    Serve the Lord or have a slight bit of real power?*

    *(Real Power (T.M.) is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of our lives.)

  17. Ward Cleaver is actually not a stud at all, he’s more like the kind of man that drives you to having an addiction to antidepressants and suicidal tendencies.

    And yet you are complaining about Rollo not saying something “positive” about marriage.

  18. “June Cleaver is not content, she’s actually locked in her own Stockholm syndrome.”

    Yes, that’s the general opinion of the FI…also, the OFA…I am on their mailing list (always know thy enemy).
    Thanks.

  19. Geraghty and other “Man Up” trad-cons are just staving off their own subconscious regrets. They’re getting nagged by a fifty year old who hasn’t worked out in over twenty years (and man, did you see that 20 year old at the mall with her tits halfway out? OMG) Allowing that SRP life is a full, fair option that they could have taken just might rip them apart if they acknowledged it consciously—better to deplore the SRP life and file it away as unacceptable, for loser’s only. When things really get ratcheted up, just make a video.

  20. “The ‘tamed’ Alphas are also the guys with wives who’ll try to actively minimize his Red Pill transformation.”

    ‘tamed’ alpha = beta

    you either do exactly what you want or you don’t and there is no way a woman could ever stop an alpha from doing anything

    why did I get married?

    I had owned girls before, but never with state approval. I mean, she changed her fucking name. think of how insane that is.

    it would be fucking awesome if american men had their own march… to the courthouse, where every married man filed for divorce on the same day.

    instead of complaining about the FI, we simply shit all over it with a simple document.

  21. @Rollo – “These men believe their ship has finally come in, but because of this these men are often the most difficult to unplug. They have the hardest time with Red Pill awareness because in accepting it they must also accept that what led up to their marriage to that Quality Woman was also a result of their Blue Pill conditioning. A lot of their ego is invested in Beta Game and Blue Pill convictions, but also a forced-convincing of themselves that they did everything right and were rewarded for it.”

    There are two other factors that further intensifies such betas adherence to their miserable enslavement predicament in the face of RP awarness. RP concepts are expressed here and throughout the manosphere objectively and consciously. Their truth would not be recognized and appreciated by so many men unless men were already aware subconsciously. These truths connect dots all men, including betas, already know are lurking underneath all the deceptions and pretenses they have been conditioned to believe. We are all at least vaguely aware until objective honest discourse discloses what we know individually and then share free of shame thanks to the anonymity of the Internet. It is really just a matter of being open and honest with each other. Any abject beta (and there are many cowards) facing this reality is faced with two additional horrors. The first is all that Rollo directly pointed out. The other factors are, (1) the horror and shame of realizing his missed opportunities, life wasted, forgone sexual fulfillment bartered for a conscription of enslavement and false promise, and (2) the horror of knowing himself to be an absolute fool.

    So clinging to the old set of books beta paradigm provides him an opiate illusion that distracts the pathetic beta from the pain of accepting he was deceived, the pain of knowing he missed the boat (the pussy), and the pain of knowing he is and abject fool. Once upon a time, the beta paradigm was hope, after experience and RP awarness it is escape from regret and shame. The ego investment becomes the apron or skirt to hide behind.

  22. “What’s being related in this video is the desire to socially, culturally, change the definition of what should be considered “sexy” by women in spite of all evolved arousal and attraction cues they’re subject to. The presumption this is based upon is that attraction is a social construct and therefor something that can be changed.”

  23. NBTM

    Nice analogy there. A lot of the “Man Up” shamers are exactly that, clinging to the apron most tightly of all.

  24. Betas In Waiting is the RM post that has woken me up the most, and this one adds more depth. Thank you. I will add one related observation: If you are in a rapidly escalating relationship with a woman that is more attractive than the average woman you’ve dated, this is a Red Flag. You will not want to admit to yourself that something could be wrong, but it is very wrong.

  25. @insanity
    “In fact, I find this one to be biter, nihilistic, and devoid of hope. You do not say one positive thing about the whole institution of marriage,the societal and cultural benefits, or the fact that many,many men have indeed found joy and satisfaction there.”

    Men are naturally driven to pair-bond with women (on this I agree with you, not Rollo). But modern marriage does not serve us well in accomplishing that goal. That’s not bitterness, it’s just reality.

  26. Rollo, I’m definitely more interested in the “always was beta, never was alpha, trying to go RP” scenario than the “alpha who went beta and is trying to recover via RP”. In my case, always beta, so I am not trying to “reset to a prior impression” but trying to create an entirely new impression. Wife is not buying it so far, and it’s tougher than heck to stay out of her frame.

  27. @Not Born This Morning
    “Matriarchal power is founded upon feminine sexuality. Men have always been the conquers, creators, protectors and providers, not women… ”

    All of modern society is basically an enlargement of men’s role in providership, invention and social leadership. As you go on to point out, feminism is largely just responding to this, particularly with its sense of inadequacy.

    Follow Rollo’s “Are You Experienced” link, and you can see an example of feminists even envying men’s capacity to have fun (vs. women’s bourgeois materialism). The modern idea of ‘finding yourself through experience’ is within the male frame, at least according to one feminist.

    Men have it good in modern society, just not for the reasons feminists think.

  28. @ boxcar

    Should read Alphas have it good in modern society, betas are just slaves to the FI and thoroughly disposable slaves that can be “upgraded” at any time at that.

    She will trade a beta in for a better option ( even if it’s just a better beta ) as fast as she will upgrade her smartphone to the latest model, in fact she will probably have fonder memories of her old phone until she becomes accustomed to the new “features” of its replacement.

  29. I couldn’t help thinking during the video that the television show that most accurately represented Western families (even today) was “Married with Children”.

  30. I have a friend who is a textbook beta in waiting who is currently devastated at the end of a 4 year LTR.

    It played out so predictably I’m actually surprised it lasted that long, he on the other hand “didn’t see it coming” , still loves her and can’t believe all the “relational equity” he believes he accrued counts for nothing in face of a better option arriving on the scene.

    She moved on so quickly his head is still spinning two months later.
    He is the living embodiment of the old set of books expectations, she is a single mom hb6 and now 31 (so 27 when they met) he is a 45 year old dad bod and objectively I’d guess a 3ish? But makes a comfortable living from his small business.

    He has been in her frame from day 1 and I could see things were not going to pan out well for him so I tried to introduce him to the red pill to give him a fighting chance about 2 years ago.

    He was having none of it! His ship had come in, he had a GF 2-3 points higher in SMV who appreciated him after being used and abused by bad boys in her early 20’s and “she had gotten right with herself” lol, it was like a red pill case study.

    He even minded her kid so she could go on GNO’s because he trusted her.

    About a year ago I bumped into them in a city centre bar I was with a mutual friend, she commented that I looked like I went to the gym and proceeded to touch my chest and abs in front of him/our friend and seemed visibly turned on.

    I felt bad for him, our mutual friend who while not fully red pill ( I’m working on him) agreed that she was disrespectful to our friend.
    They went outside to smoke, had an argument and he threw her phone down the street in a beta rage, she came in crying to me looking for help/protection from her abusive boyfriend!!!

    I wanted no part in further humiliating our friend, I went outside told him he should dump her and left with our mutual friend, as I looked back she had come outside and was arguing with the bouncers, probably looking for white knight backup.

    The only positive that came out of it was that he started going to the gym to improve his dad bid, but he was firmly entrenched in her mind as a beta by this point.

    About 2 months ago due to a shit storm on Facebook he found out she had been sleeping with her best friends boyfriend.

    He forgave her!

    Three weeks later she dumps him for another man her own age and is posting pics on Facebook of them playing happy families.

    He bonded with her kid and is devastated by this.

    ” Did she really think so little of me after 4 years that she thinks it’s ok to do this” he asked me.
    ” it’s like she’s purposely trying to hurt me as much as possible and I’ve done nothing wrong” he lamented.

    The truth was she used him for his utility for 4 years but he couldn’t see it! They had an argument about 6 months ago and didn’t see each other for 10 days, the comment he made that stuck with me the most was “it’s saved me about £600 so far”. She liked cocaine!

    He had a call from the new BF threatening him as he had been calling and texting her trying to fix things. He said to the new BF ” tell her I still love her” he said he did this because he knew she would be listening!

    To me this is a horror show of what not to do but he is so invested in the old set of books he believes showing her he still loves her an forgives her might “win her” back from her new ” loser boyfriend” .

    Once again I tried to reach out to him and suggested he read both the myth of relational equity and war brides here on TRM as it would help him understand why he finds himself in the position he’s in, his response was that he looked at it last time I sent him a link and he found it “misogynistic”.

    Two weeks ago he went home to see his mother ( the matriarch of a large criminal family, he is pretty much the only civilian out of the male side) and broke down in front of her, she called his ex and she was “disrespectful to her” ( probably told her to mind her own fucking business) so she sent a girl who I quote she said ” most men don’t want to fight” and a local hard man around to his exes place to dish out a punishment beating for being disrespectful.

    My friend didn’t seem to happy about this but i think it was taken out of his hands after his ex backchatted his mother, ” I’m not proud” he commented.

    I wonder if there is any hope for him becoming red pill after he can look back upon the whole sorry episode, but he’s showed no sign so far.

    Like Rollo says it’s like performing triage save those who are willing and read the last rites to the dying.

    As of this morning I’ve not heard from him in 2 weeks and I’m a bit worried about him as he confessed he was not handling the break up very well.

    He has ignored all my attempts to get him out of the house and is now not answering my texts or what’s app.

    Moral of the story Don’t be like my friend.

    Once she sees you as beta it’s easier to start again with another woman after your red pill awakening, the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze, she will always remember your beta “imprint” in her mind you are being incongruent and fake if you try to change her initial impression if you. ” never go back through your trash” as Rollo would say.

  31. The fact that IB doesn’t really understand or like your post only means how close to the truth it is. this is the most clear cut proof of the fI wailing over the unveiling of open hypergamy.

  32. @IB
    A man who “does everything right, does everything by the book,” is totally boring, not sexually appealing. Even worse, he thinks his own goodness means “he can assume his chances of being considered ‘sexy’” That’s what women actually mean when we say male entitlement. He believes he is entitled by virtue of his own “goodness.” We want men entitled by virtue of their own “badness.”

    The curtain revealed…
    And what is your complaint about what Rollo writes anyways? This little snippet is the basis of all.

  33. @Tarl

    You’ll find lots of great advice here, and it will help, if you’re serious about turning things around and willing to walk away if it doesn’t.

  34. Ward Cleaver was sexy in his place and time. June Cleaver never disrespected him, but did disagree with him when Wally and Beaver were out of earshot. “You were awful hard on the Beaver, last night”.

    What made Ward sexy was 10 years of economic depression and suffering when family formation was very difficult for most men due to lack of resources. This was followed by 6 years of war when most of the men were overseas or otherwise occupied in the military. When the war was over, North America was about the only place left unscathed. A man could get a job which could support a family, and a woman could get a man who could support a family. Prior to that there were 16 years during which a lot of women despaired of ever getting a husband/meal ticket.

    By the time the late 60’s rolled around, a boring hard working husband became the new normal, and the hardships of the depression and the war were forgotten. Then the sainted Ronald Reagan signed the first no fault divorce into law in 1969. Those happy idyllic 50’s marriages were blown up during the 70’s by ‘unhappy’ women. My mother was one of the ‘unhappy’ ones. Would June have left Ward, if the TV show had continued into the 70’s? I don’t know.

    Ward Cleaver is no longer ‘sexy’, because the 50’s ended during the 70’s. The video is bad advice for millennial men. The millennial men who have told me they watched felt a visceral anger and resentment.

  35. @ dizzle

    You are probably right @ 45 he’s too heavily invested in the FI.

    I managed it at 45 but it was a lot easier for me as I already had an n count of around 130+ and a marriage to a crazy Italian BPD chick behind me by that point.

    For me it was more a case of confirming what I already knew and joining a few dots on suspicions I had about women along with erasing some beta backsliding that occurred during my marriage to a crazy chick that had the money and looks to manipulate me for a while until I woke up and kicked her to the kerb.

    I can see it would be more difficult for my friend to swall the RP at his age with different life experiences, he has always been operating with a scarcity mindset where I never had a problem getting chicks but I just didn’t fully understand the game that was being played.

    “Love” between men and women is war. Now I use them for entertainment purposes only. I don’t tell them this of course!
    I dangle the carrot of the “if I find the right woman anything is possible” and let their hampster do the rest, damn them little critters are indefatigable I can usually get a whole lot of mileage before they give up trying to be my unicorn.

  36. Playdontplay
    Man sleeps with another guys wife guy ends up blaming husband and beats him up out of his own home.
    (Irony of blue and red in cinema)
    kfg

  37. This series really hits home with me. I was a beta going into my marriage as far as my old books beliefs, but alpha enough to have my wife enter my frame. Over the years I let her erode my frame and one day I looked around and felt like a stranger in my own home. By the time I discovered the red pill and regained my frame it was too late. I gave up too many little battles along the way. My dad (blue pill to the core) always taught me to “pick my battles” and I heard that “happy wife, happy life” crap all the time. Well guess what, if you lose enough little battles, you eventually lose the war.

  38. @ Play

    You and I are the same age and have a similar testament, except my BPD was Croatian, my N was 1 (I’m devoutly Catholic), and I got left by my oneitis a couple of years back. But then I got incredibly lucky that I had a redux last year – that took 20 years of bad behavior and condensed it down to two months. That woke me up. Suffice to say, the rest of my story is the same as everyone else who gets here – you either make it or you don’t. You can either show personal responsibility for your own well being and root out codependent behavior or you can’t.

    IMO….That guy is too raw from the breakup, and too invested in the old books. The truth is too tough to swallow for most, plus he’s had decades of conditioning to become exactly what he is. He’s decided to be this man. He wants to do it again at his core.

    Honestly, if I had the gift of hindsight, I’m not sure I would have unplugged. I honestly led a far more satisfying life when I was fully vested into the old books. I probably will change my mind after a while. I loathe disingenuous behavior.

  39. “Ward Cleaver was sexy in his place and time.”

    Ward Cleaver was attractive. There was absolutely nothing sexy about Leave it to Beaver.

    Note that Ward and June Cleaver were born during WWI, in a farm town just outside of Cleveland, which they never moved away from. They both graduated college (the first in the their families to do so and which at the time put them in the elite), Ward majoring in philosophy. Married just before the war, which is the reason for the age gap between Wally and The Beaver, as Ward served with the Seabees. The Beaver is a baby boomer; Wally is not.

    Other than noting Ward’s military service the show portrays a world in which the Depression and the war never existed. It, on the one hand, is a nostalgic look at pre-Depression, middle America farm town life, and on the other a promotion for the new Suburban life, which was so new that the very first new suburban town wasn’t even quite finished yet.

    Compare and contrast with The Honeymooners, which depicted big city, blue collar tenement life, and in which Ralph was the big hearted but bumbling husband and Alice was the pragmatic, hard nosed frame holder.

  40. What is the position on an ex coming back into a man’s life and wanting to be friends? Is this just female primacy seeking emotional connection on her terms or is it the possibility of further shit testing to see if that man is the one for her? If a woman dumps a man due to Blue Pill conditioning is there ever any chance that the woman would welcome that man to be the Alpha (after the man understanding where he has gone wrong) she connects with on an emotional level? Wouldnt a woman welcome that change?

  41. @ kfg

    My pet name for my ex was “Alice”, but until exactly right now I didn’t realize why.

    Thank you for the gift of perspective.

  42. @rationalityf:

    My philosophy I’ve adopted is this:

    Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you aren’t having sex with her, you are her girlfriend.

    I can’t imagine anything more damaging to you as a man/beta as to bring an ex back you have feelings for as a friend. It’s worse than accepting LJBF.

    This chick isn’t a friend. She’s a parasite. Treat her accordingly.

  43. @Dizzle

    Yes you have a very good point and why I havent wanted to know in the past but after seeing her the other night, it was more a cry for help, that she wants to be controlled and was shit testing me to see if I am that man. If I meet those conditions then I’m in, if not I’m out. Does that not work?

  44. Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you aren’t having sex with her, you are her girlfriend.
    I can’t imagine anything more damaging to you as a man/beta as to bring an ex back you have feelings for as a friend. It’s worse than accepting LJBF.

    I’m going through this now – just kick the bitch to the curb. It’s amazing how she just doesn’t understand the concept.
    In my case I’ve got a small moral complication. She drove and helped me when we were dating during my hernia surgery and now she’ll be going in for a similar surgery (post LJBF request). I feel a ‘debt’ towards her for that and I’m not sure what to do…

  45. @rationalityf: “Does that not work?”

    That is correct, that does not work.

    Look, if you want to be her girlfriend, fine I guess, that’s up to you. I’ve done that once myself.
    If you want her to be your broken plate, between her boyfriends fuck buddy for whatever you get out of that, fine I guess, that’s up to you.

    But if you are expecting anything else don’t say we didn’t warn you.

    @Disgruntled Earthling: “I feel a ‘debt’ towards her for that and I’m not sure what to do…”

    Help her gain momentum toward the next monkey.

  46. Only suffered through half of the video. I hate bullshit propaganda.

    Digging the series RT.

    A huge part of unplugging includes the disconnecting from ” society ” wholey, and then only reincorporating that which iiz reasonable and can be utilized iin a RP frame and perspective.

    Lots of anger floating Around concerning having been lied to and mislead. It’s imperative that this be let go of ASAP.. This includes ” organized religion “.

    As soon as I wasold enough to understand what was going on around me, I immediately became suspicious of the broader society and concluded that it was full of shit.

    I can’t imagine how difficult that realization must be at 20′ 30, or even 50.

    This morning I watched a little news. There was a lot of excitement and celebration over the stock market hitting 20,000. Lol…suckers. But the drumbeat iis pervasive. Convincing, I’d guess. Doesn’t mean a thing for Americans, zero benefit.

    Just like when I was told iin 2003 that housing prices would never, ever come down. Everyone was happy and celebrating and fully committing to this bullshit.

    Kill what you know. Question what you believe. Destroy what doesn’t serve you rationally over the long haul.

    Doing the ” right thing ” is defined soley by you and your objective .

  47. @Rollo and kfg

    My original comment intended to say that Ward was ‘sexy’ due to his place and time, and that time is not coming back.

    As to origanized religion, I will say that the Catholic church is the Church founded by Christ, but my background feelings are rage, Rage, and RAGE.

  48. “Tradcons don’t want the Red Pill, they want a time machine.”

    This is quite true. What many don’t understand is that the past is not quite as they are imagining it to be.

    I am not really a trad/con, but more of an outlier on the fringes of culture. So when you are in the boonies, off the grid, practicing sustenance living, men and women don’t have the issues and problems we see in modern culture. Women, our lives are so dependent on men, food, firewood, protection. And men, well they tend to be kind to women least they have no one to help them carry firewood and keep them warm at night. There is an interdependence and a symbiosis at play that is really quite natural.

    So my past, my tradition is really more like an old western then an episode of Leave it to Beaver. We would stare at Ward and June as if they were an oddity, a weirdness dreamed up by Hollywood, not an example of anything “traditional.”

  49. @Rollo Tomassi

    Many thanks. The harsh words here are a deep reminder of the harsh realities of the gyrocentric society we live in. I have decided to hit the dating scene hard and will see this girl two or three more times, play it mean and go from there. I dont want to be an emotional tampon or a girlfriend but neither do I want to be too rash as she is clearly looking for direction that she did not receive in my previous state. Her options are not great and she will be reminded of this.

  50. @RICanuck: “My original comment intended to say that Ward was ‘sexy’ due to his place and time . . . ”

    Attractiveness is not sexyness. You were meant to desire to live like Ward and June, not desire to fuck them. The emotional response was avarice, not lust. The Cleavers were deliberately portrayed as less sexy than you could make a cardboard cutout.

    Women didn’t watch and desire Ward. They desired electric toasters and washing machines.

    Men didn’t watch and desire June. They desired not to have to shovel shit for a living.

    ” . . .that time is not coming back.”

    . . . and . . .

    @Rollo: “Tradcons don’t want the Red Pill, they want a time machine.”

    To a time that never was. The point of Leave it to Beaver is that Ward and June were not average, they were elites, but only just elite enough (they went to state college) to not be beyond average aspiration.

    Most people lived like Ralph and Alice.

  51. “There is a school of thought about being Red Pill and married that believes that getting a wife (or LTR girlfriend) to accept the ‘new you’ as being impossible. Things may nominally improve due to Dread working, but your new Red Pill marriage will never be what you want it to be because you have improved, she hasn’t and she never wanted you this way in the first place.”

    And sometimes, the new RP marriage will never be what you want it to be because even though you have improved, she saw you and knew you in your Blue Pill fat fuck loserdom. She knows what you REALLY are. This RP stuff is just LARPing. Eventually, you’ll revert back to your Blue Pill groveling and loserish ways. It’s just a matter of time.

  52. @insanityBytes

    I don’t have all the answers, but you can reach me. Do you live or visit Southern New England, and will you be discreet.

  53. watched the whole video…[spits]…

    one thing that jumped out at me was that Egalitarian Equalosity(tm) was on display… they tried to make it about ‘equal opportunity shaming’…lol… at 2:41 they called girls’ pre-epiphany stage AF sexual strategy ‘adolescent fascination with badboys’…lol… which girls eventually ‘outgrow’…lol… (and from beta dudes, they probably thought THAT was pushing the envelope…lol)

    It may be that his new Alpha impression on his wife isn’t something she will ever recognize or accept as ‘the real him’. And while this frustration plays out in his marriage, he also sees the positive responses from women outside his marriage – women unfamiliar with his Beta past – who readily respond to the Game he applies. That new positive reinforcement with outside women contends with his wife’s negative reinforcement inside his marriage.

    only to the extent that he doesn’t ‘just get it’…lol

    this isn’t a function of her ‘latent beta’ expectations… it’s a function of “it’s not her, it’s you”…

    girls ALWAYS React and Test ™… i really don’t think their hindbrains even have ‘expectations’… just responses (as determined by her hormonal state/limbic system… which express as emotions) to enviro cues… which include you passing/failing shit tests…

    this was one of the bigger disconnects that the YSGs had in that spat with those OMGs… it really is easier to game ‘new girls’… for a variety of reasons… but they all resolve down to him not owning a solid MPoO/frame in himself… and holding that against the shit testing his wife NEEDS to do as she runs through her rolodex ‘enough’… which is much harder than handling some shit testing from a ONS on a GNO…

    what happens is that the MRP man gets ‘some’ game… which leads to success with ‘outside girls’ (where he has the safety net of ‘next’… just like YSGs do…)… buuut, he doesn’t/can’t have success with his wife until he achieves ‘solid’ game… which takes MORE effort/change… and doesn’t have that safety net…

    and as @AR pointed out in a prior thread… it’s just like weight lifting… once you can handle your wife’s shit testing, it really is easy to game ‘other’ girls…

    There is a school of thought about being Red Pill and married that believes that getting a wife (or LTR girlfriend) to accept the ‘new you’ as being impossible. Things may nominally improve due to Dread working, but your new Red Pill marriage will never be what you want it to be because you have improved, she hasn’t and she never wanted you this way in the first place.

    basically, a buffer against true RP acceptance/transformation…

    the FI is cunning and pervasive…

    The Beta in Waiting never had Frame before or during his marriage. In fact, it was just that lack of Frame that made him marriage material for his wife. He was never “Alpha” for her, and in his equalist mindset he believed this was what set him apart and attractive then.

    Hey!… that sounds like me!…lol…

    So going from this very strong Beta initial impression to an Alpha position of dominance can be all but impossible – particularly if his self-confirmed status was that of being a proud Beta.

    only impossible if he continues to cling to BP ideals… but that’s just more of “it’s not her, it’s you…”

    gotta let that RP slide all the waaaay doooown…lol… but not kidding…

    good luck!

    ———–
    @AR

    “There are other men who’ll report having had an Alpha status prior to their marriage, but they lost it somewhere along the way. They were the Alpha backsliders who possibly entered into the marriage with a dominant Frame, but this dissolved as his wife’s Frame or insecurities about him came to dominate their relationship. I think this is likely the scenario that provides the most believability when a man becomes awakened while married, because it is a return to a prior impression (or one his wife had hoped he’d find) and therefor more believable when he does.”

    Completely agree with this. We have men saying exactly this: Sentient, HABD just for a start.

    i say it bc it’s true…lol… (and i think Sentient fits that description…)

    but ((I)) didn’t start as an alpha… you probably just think that bc of the halo effect and my overall post-RP awesomeness…lol…

    i was more of a BP-as-f*k spergy omega…lol…(or at least on the lower end of the ‘beta’ bell curve distro…)

    “The Beta in Waiting never had Frame before or during his marriage. In fact, it was just that lack of Frame that made him marriage material for his wife. He was never “Alpha” for her, and in his equalist mindset he believed this was what set him apart and attractive then.

    So going from this very strong Beta initial impression to an Alpha position of dominance can be all but impossible – particularly if his self-confirmed status was that of being a proud Beta.”

    Getting a good pair of Glasses, taking the Red Pill, leads to a wail of “I don’t know who you are anymore!” that can surely be part of a mammoth array of shit tests as she runs through her Rolodex, including everything that ever worked even once all the way back to High School.

    true… a beta in waiting CAN overcome that initial impression of beta but he needs to OWN that change… which includes seeing/handling/passing ALL of the shit tests… and the faster he makes that transition, the easier it will be for him… bc he will avoid a guard dog spinup…

    In order to rewire her neural pathways a man might have to actually move her to a different city, different job, different social scene where it will be easier for him to proceed to the Alpha he can be.

    how that FI treating you?…lol…

    bc that idea is in her frame…

    ALL of those actions won’t do ANYTHING wrt his wife’s view of him as beta without a massive change in HIS frame/MPoO… and if he HAS that massive change to alpha, he won’t have to do ANY of that stuff… and if he needs that stuff to make the switch, he still has his MPoO ‘outside’ and the change won’t stick anyway…

    good luck!

  54. “I don’t have all the answers, but you can reach me. Do you live or visit Southern New England, and will you be discreet.”

    LOL, thank you, RICanuck that was very kind, however you intended it.

    “She knows what you REALLY are. This RP stuff is just LARPing. Eventually, you’ll revert back to your Blue Pill groveling and loserish ways. It’s just a matter of time.”

    How many years have I now read your pathetic drivel, Deti? Your tragic and loveless marriage, your perpetual cross to bear. I think you actually use that darn woman as an excuse to be miserable. How many times have I tried just to talk to you and you’ve totally dismissed me, attacked me, insulted me? I’ve learned something from you,men who truly want to be miserable are going to do everything in their power to make it so.

    And that is why I so often speak of Jesus Christ and not the red pill. Only He has to power to cure what ails you.

  55. Rollo: Long time reader and hard thinker of your posts, books, and the comments, since April 2015. I’m OMG, 45+ years of “egalitarian” marriage. I’ve found TRM exceptionally helpful to reclaiming full Alpha in my marriage. And encouraging my wife to full female Alpha. We each have our own MPO. We do the Manuel Smith Respectful Assertiveness, both of us.

    You seem to be losing any hope in marriage, unless wife “submits”. Sounds like your marriage is very much in question long term, as the gap between your SMV and your wife’s inevitably widens.
    The “wife must submit” and “younger hotter pussy is the goal” model seems to doom marriage in current social circumstances.

    An Alpha married to an Alpha model, with respectful assertiveness, seems like a much better model. A win-win. Alpha married to Alpha generates genuine desire! And that Alphaness, male and female, continues to generate genuine desire, as the ageing process continues.

  56. Great post HABD. Etheir evo-bio psych is true or it’s not. Either the nature of woman is unchanged or it’s not. Either AWALT or NAWALT.

    Can’t have both.

  57. @Marko: “An Alpha married to an Alpha model, with respectful assertiveness, seems like a much better model.”

    Does elitist equalitarianism come with fried ice eggroll?

  58. I’ve accepted that whenever I make a post about marriage the inevitable reflex response will always be that it must be some reflection on my marriage. Don’t make that presumption.

    If you’ll recall, around the beginning of December I mentioned I’d be addressing marriage a bit more because Athol Kay abandoned his MMSL forum and I thought I’d encourage some of his former members to participate here. Also, last week I was given an honorary Moderatorship of the Married Red Pill reddit forum. Now, I don’t know how much actual moderating I’ll be doing, but it was a nice gesture and I’ve been reading a bit more about the guys on that forum.

    TRM’s focus has never been about marriage, but I will occasionally delve into it when it relates to the Red Pill and intersexual dynamics. IB can kvetch all she wants about how negative the take on marriage is in TRP, but the facts still remain and the truth is often discomforting. Go watch the Divorce Corp. documentary on Netflix and tell me that marriage isn’t an all-downside risk for men.

    But, that said, I’ve been married for over 20 years now, and happily so, but I attribute all of that “success” to having internalized Red Pill truths and never having lost the (lesser) Alpha mindset. I’ll be digging into this in the last post of this series.

  59. @kfg
    Usually find your comments insightful.
    So, instead of snark, how about addressing the core issue I raised.
    TRM is all about being Alpha, ie “elite”.

  60. @Marko:

    I have no problem with being elite. As I have said before, I am not an elitist, I am elite. The former is a philosophical statement, the latter an objective statement.

    Your own posits elites, but tries to fit them into the egalitarian philosophical mold.

    There is an impedance mismatch.

  61. Thanks Rollo!
    Very much looking forward to Reconstruction IV post!

    @Sentient
    Again, usually find your comments insightful!
    Re Bardot: I’ll bet she is still a good fuck for an Alpha who gives her the tingles. For me, the whole Alpha package is the turn-on.

  62. “…or at least the women who have ‘outgrown’ their adolescent fascination with badboys.” – LOL

    Nuggets like these are just too much. So not only can the badboy fascination be outgrown, but whatever constitutes “fascination” should be ignored by men once she has outgrown it.

    Yet all while he is lecturing men to grow up and marry that slut, he at no point suggests there is any duty or obligation for a woman to grow-up – or anything else for that matter.

    Worse, it is EXPECTED that all woman have her badboy “phase”. Pure AF/BB gold. Basically, men: work hard to become the BB, do not get distracted by the women riding the carousel – they have just not outgrown it yet. But don’t you dare enjoy any of the spoils of such “immaturity” yourself. You need to man-up and await your former carousel rider to arrive. LOL.

    Whenever I hear some version of “If men would only do [X], then they would be Good [REAL] Men and all would be fine.” I want to laugh, and then punch him in his super punchable face for no other reason than to demonstrate that I am a ZFG, immature, bad man prone to impulse and even violence. Which, of course, means tingle-inducing.

  63. @ROLLO

    “I’ve accepted that whenever I make a post about marriage the inevitable reflex response will always be that it must be some reflection on my marriage. Don’t make that presumption.”

    I try to remain objective,then you continuosly nail my current situ like this.Sometimes it hits too close to home.Then There is super tramp.

    “The ‘tamed’ Alphas are also the guys with wives who’ll try to actively minimize his Red Pill transformation. Their wives are simultaneously aroused by this rekindling of his Alpha dominance and fearful that he will come to see her as the failed investment she likely is for him. That may or may not be the actual case for him, but for her it will prompt possessiveness, surveillance and a control over how he’s allowed to ‘appropriately’ express this dominance – which in turn disqualifies it.”

    It feels like a continuos barrage of comfort tests from her,although she is still proving day in and out that she can’t be trusted,is manipulative so the possessivness,surveillance and control of expression can be shrugged off like another thumbprint.

  64. Rollo,
    Love this series! I’ve been digging deep since last post and comments from others here. All – feel free to jump in and critique & trash this if necessary – I have thick skin.

    (Long) Sometimes I have to develop first principles myself to help me internalize them. This isn’t new or novel, just internally developed.

    Donald Trump has been the poster child lately for his poor treatment of women, specifically his statements about walking up to women and grabbing their pussies and kissing them with little or no warning. This seems to be backed up by the fact that women have come forward to corroborate his actions. Interestingly, none of them came forward at the time but waited until they had adequate status to do so using the media as their bludgeon.

    But the epiphany came when I realized that if a man, particularly a rich, powerful man (high status) can isolate a woman, he can take advantage of her and she will have very little recourse. Sexually touching her, raping her, stealing from her are all easily accomplished by most males whether high status or not as they are physically stronger than her. If she accuses them, she is likely to be dismissed partly because other people tend to believe a high-status male, they are afraid to “take on” someone with power and partly because he has the resources to protect himself. It becomes her word against his and even if she is being truthful, there is no guarantee that anyone will believe her and there will likely be little physical evidence.

    Another problem is that the type of guy who will be aggressive and risk-taking enough to try to get her alone and take advantage of her is also potentially the type of male who would be willing and able to protect her if she became his girlfriend or wife. She may decide to let him take advantage of her essentially “in exchange” for her current man who is unable or unwilling to protect her or in hopes that he chooses her and she can take advantage of his resources and protection. She may find this kind of assertiveness attractive or at least question why her current man has allowed her to be so vulnerable.

    The only way she can protect herself is to either stay out of situations where she can be isolated by another male, to have another male who is both willing and able to protect her from other males or to change male behavior wholesale so that they no longer take advantage of women (utopian).

    Being in a mixed group or even a group of other women allows her to have witnesses and to limit her ability to get broken off from the group by a male. In situations where she could be isolated, she will need some sort of escort (husband, father, brother, uncle, etc.). It will also be imperative that the male trying to protect her is strong enough to do so and has enough status himself to not feel intimidated by the other male (i.e. back down). If a woman feels that her man is not strong enough, or brave enough, to defend her and has low-status then she risks a great deal (trauma, pregnancy, reputation, etc.). A woman will need a man who is strong, courageous and who has garnered enough status that he can protect his wife.

    In today’s feminized world, the goal seems to be to rid the world of aggressive, risk-taking men so that women no longer require protection. But, that’s unrealistic, if even one man exists that is willing to be assertive and take chances then there will always be a need for women to have physical protection. The flip side of that is that feminism, by definition, is flawed. The desire for a strong man will always be preferred to a man she can control.

    It is the woman’s responsibility to figure out how to keep her man happy and committed. One option is to provide unfettered access to her sexually and provide love and support at home. However, his wife must be aware of and believe that he is both willing to leave her and capable of finding another comparable or better woman. If over time, he becomes soft, meek and low status (especially relative to her) then she will know that he has few options for finding another woman and she can 1) stay with him and utilize his resources (and the protection of the State), 2) cheat on him or 3) leave him for a worthier man.

    If a man feels that he is not being given the respect and rewards (sex, devotion, etc.) that he deserves, he can cheat on her or leave and risk losing part of his status (money) and access to his progeny by the State but take a portion of his wealth and his protection.

    So, this begs the question of how a woman ultimately expects to be treated versus how she says she wants to be treated. Likely she will want firm boundaries that indicate that he is willing to take a stand, a physically strong man, courageous and slightly aggressive. A man with these attributes will also clearly have options with other women that she must defend against.

    Feminist women want to have:
    -Resources provided either by themselves, the State or some combination.
    -Protection provided by the State, not men.
    -A desire to lower aggressive, risk-taking behavior in men to lessen the risk from them and limit women’s need for protection.
    -Gain access to status (money & power) themselves so that, in conjunction with the State, they will no longer need men for resources or protection.
    -Procreation can be provided by technology (IVF, etc.) or Alpha males as needed.

    Feminist women don’t feel they have any obligation to keep their husband happy in part because they know that even if he leaves, they will get some resources and the protection of the State. Their biggest risk is a man that other women want and his ability to cheat without detection (pregnancy) – dread.

  65. “I couldn’t help thinking during the video that the television show that most accurately represented Western families (even today) was “Married with Children”.
    Add 40 lbs of lard to Peggy Bundy, and you’re there.

  66. “But the epiphany came when I realized that if a man, particularly a rich, powerful man (high status) can isolate a woman, he can take advantage of her . . .”

    Because, of course, as a woman, she is repulsed by sex, particularly with rich, powerful men.

    “Protection provided by the State”

    i.e. violent men.

  67. ..men who’ll report having had an Alpha status prior to their marriage, but they lost it somewhere along the way. They were the Alpha backsliders who possibly entered into the marriage with a dominant Frame, but this dissolved as his wife’s Frame or insecurities about him came to dominate their relationship.

    So, I’d venture a guess that most marriages that last a significant amount of time, and started at a young age fall into this category. A few things I’ll say about it. When you’re doing everything right, and sufficiently holding frame in your marriage (e.g. sex is good, patriarchy in tact).. people get bored. You get bored. She gets bored. And the family dynamic, activities, responsibilities, lack of social life, or having to work too hard to have it.. the doldrums start to wear on you both. We make tiny mistakes in the beginning. The woman escalates shit testing, whether withholding sex, nagging, or with non-compliance or creating drama. The man, especially after say 15 years, might even understand the concept that she’s ‘acting out’, because she’s ‘unhappy’ to a degree.. and this is what he says to himself…

    Fuck her.. who tf does she think she is? what an unappreciative little bitch.

    And right here is where the actions taken to remedy the situation completely diverge wrt RP vs. BP thinking.

    See the minute you realize she truly doesn’t appreciate the things you’ve done for her, for the family, it’s a gaping wound. It’s a hard realization. Prior to this realization, if someone had told you the RP wisdom about the diff between idealistic and opportunistic love, the failure of womankind to appreciate the sacrifices, and the burden of performance, whether you were a semi-natural like me, or just a better beta who made it this far, your ego investment in this woman and your family will cause you to scoff at the notion. Somewhere in there you can’t believe it. Fighting off the despair is difficult if not impossible unless you entered the relationship with true RP awareness from the beginning.

    Even someone with a natural alpha frame is a sitting duck without the academic RP knowledge.

    Because..

    The most human and most likely way to react to the despair, the realization your efforts go unappreciated in the long run, is to get angry, resentful, and self-pitiful. As a backsliding alpha you have two real choices at this point: Option 1 Recognize the normalcy of all of this, don’t be bitter, and reclaim your alpha status slowly by changing something. This option translates to WORKING HARDER.. not likely in your current beaten down mental state. Option 2 is to yield, retreat, check out, cede control, counsel, bring emotion into it, try to basically dig up from her this fabled appreciation that you just know has to be in there somewhere. All completely self defeating.

    I chose option 2. My marriage ended in nuclear fashion 5 years later.

    I found the RP 2 months before detonation, far too far gone already, and not enough time to make sense of and apply it. Also note that in my sad state, just absorbing it was enough to cause me to engage in blank wall staring for hours on end..

    On reflection, considering I did lead my wife, my family.. I did sweep her off her feet with true chemistry and arousal in play.. and I entered my marriage to her under my frame, keeping it that way fairly successfully for 15 years.. If I had had the academic RP knowledge on hand when things did get rocky, I do believe I could have taken some very simple steps that fit with her overall impression of me, and slowly reclaimed my dominance and leadership. Reclaimed, mainly, her overall attraction to me, which is what it’s really about, especially if you married young, and the woman is still a viable commodity in the SMP 20 years on.

    This is conjecture, but I think the most valuable conclusion is that I did not have one single inkling that there was even an Option 1, or how to go about it, as a natural but with BP reasoning. Instead I did the normal thing people do when they feel completely used and unappreciated, I quit. And worse, I quit, and I still didn’t prepare for the fallout. Pure self pity. Clinging to the notion that I was still entitled to a reward for all I’d done right. Pure denial.

    In hindsight I think I could come up with a plan in a few minutes that might have worked wonders.. but alas I’ll never know. However, my 2 cents.. my type of situation.. the backsliding alpha is the only one where a man can make a beneficial and noticeable change, that actually has the desired effect on the wife (increased attraction). The other situations Rollo mentioned, I’d say very unlikely.

  68. @kfg “Because, of course, as a woman, she is repulsed by sex, particularly with rich, powerful men.”

    No, no…I guess that was assumed.

  69. My summary notes about the Old Books:

    As a man, if you:
    1. “Do the right thing”
    2. “Be responsible and accountable.”
    3. “Work hard”
    4. “Get married.” (become a husband)
    5. “Become a father”
    6. “Provide (resources, protection) for your wife and family”
    7. “Purchase a home”
    8. “Pay taxes”
    9. “Devote yourself to monogamy”
    10. “Sacrifice”

    Then:

    1. “You will be considered an adult.”
    2. “You will be rewarded with love, adoration and sex.”
    3. “Your wife will appreciate you, for who you are.”
    4. “Other women will find you attractive (sexy), including your own wife.”
    5. “Society will look upon you with favor, respect and positive regard”
    6. “You will feel satisfied and happy.”

    Indeed, it does not ever occur to Prager U that the list of benefits, including a June Cleaver, no longer exist.

  70. @ TuffLuv

    “In hindsight I think I could come up with a plan in a few minutes that might have worked wonders…”

    Can you sketch this out? I’m curious as to what you would have done then, knowing and have internalized what you know now.

    Thanks for the post man—always great to hear firsthand accounts from guys who have survived and thrived since then.

  71. @Sisyphus:

    The phrase “take advantage of” is straight out of the FI second set of playbooks. It’s a rather peculiar phrase when you examine it closely, because it actually gives the game away in a way that only a woman could.

    Ask yourself, just what is being “taken advantage of”?

  72. Pure alpha would be doing what or who you want when you want. The prisons are filled with Alpha. Is it not more alpha to forcibly take a pretty young woman than ask for her number? Pure Alpha doesn’t kindly ask permission for anything, it takes what it wants from women or betas.
    Seems the beta population, made up of women and non-alpha men have combined their power in the form of societal laws to contain Pure Alpha. Would you,even if your very alpha, want to live in a city with unmitigated pure alphas taking all your women and resources?
    But… you like being alpha, in fact it took a lifetime of rules, greater alphas and shame to curtail your inner alpha. You also like women, it’s more than just like women, it’s programmed into the core of your DNA. The need to procreate has keep you from doing all those things that put soo many alphas in jail, cause jail means no freedom to chase women or anything else.
    Then your MPO gets high-jacked by the unfettered FI of recent, couple that with your hard-coded, testosterone turbo boosted libido and viola you’ve got the beginning of an AFC.

    How do you go back to being feral when you’ve been domesticated your whole life?
    Step one, you be your MPO. Step two, Alpha up, but not soo much your going to jail/prison ever.
    Step three, Don’t be an idiot, use that thing on your shoulders before the thing between your legs.

  73. @Rollo

    There is a school of thought about being Red Pill and married that believes that getting a wife (or LTR girlfriend) to accept the ‘new you’ as being impossible. Things may nominally improve due to Dread working, but your new Red Pill marriage will never be what you want it to be because you have improved, she hasn’t and she never wanted you this way in the first place.

    I don’t accept this assessment in its entirety

    Are you going to explore the portions of this statement you disagree with, and why, in the third installment? This post only listed evidence in support of it.

    In particular, do you think it’s possible for the “my time has come”, dyed-in-the-wool betas who have never been alpha to get their woman to accept their new persona?

  74. @Kfg
    “Alpha-Alpha Complementarian” is better label for what I think (and, what I experience) as a workable model LTR. Male and Female are definitely not “equal” as TRM and evo-psych and simple biology definitively show. But, complementary, yes, as evo-psych and simple biology show. Viva la differance! Polarity —> Tingles!

  75. @kfg “Take advantage of…” – Okay, the idea being that “forcibly” is different than “take advantage of”. If I’m taking an advantage then there is ostensibly a negotiation taking place which is different than me taking something through force. As in, I can take advantage of my skills to win a bid for a project, which is fundamentally different than say, forcing someone to use my services regardless of my skills or capabilities, yes?

  76. @Sisyphus, I may be misunderstanding you, but I don’t get your whole main comment here today. I was wondering if your wife hacked your username and wrote your post earlier. This seems like a different headspace than your comments on the last post.

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