Old Flame, New Game

An interesting scenario for Game-aware Men has developed in the last 12 years in that, with our new level of connectivity and virtual social communication, now more than ever before it’s not only convenient to reestablish a connection with a previous lover, it’s far more likely. Even if you’ve moved on from a lover more than a decade ago and live thousands of miles away, they’re still as close as a google search or facebook friending away from you now. This presents an interesting situation for Men who’d previously been left by a woman in their ‘beta’ mode of thinking, only to reestablish (or have the old lover reestablish) a connection with the potential for a fresh intimate affair.

The temptation to prove something to an old lover is a very strong impulse in Men, and particularly if the former relationship resulted in his being dumped for a mindset in himself that he now realizes was the cause. Pair this need for vindication with a woman who’s initiated the contact after her last LTR failed, and you can see how consuming this opportunism might be for a guy. Considering all this, it’s very difficult to assess the real situation and the motivations for such a reconnection.

Rebound Guy vs. Sure Thing Guy

Rebound guy is defined by being a fresh prospect, coming around conveniently at the end of an LTR. The rebounder is also generally an emotional tampon rather than (but not limited to) a sexual release for a girl. Status as a rebound guy is usually based on how involved her LTR was prior, and the terms and circumstances of the break up. For instance, if the old boyfriend / husband cheating on her was the catalyst for the break up, then there’s a good chance you’ll be rebound fucking her as both retribution and an ego-preservation function for her. If she split with the guy due to her own indiscretions, or the guy was simply too beta for her to endure any longer, depending on your Game and Alphatude in comparison, you’re probably rebound fucking her. If the former lover was himself an Alpha (based on her perception) and she’s become his leftovers, then you’re probably in for a long haul down the emotional tampon highway – or at least if you permit it – and the end result will be frustrating.

However, the far more entrapping situation is being the ‘sure thing’ in this episode. AFC guys resort to ‘sure thing’ thinking constantly, but it’s not uncommon for women too. What tends to happen when we find ourselves at the end of an immersing LTR is that we look for what rewarded us prior to our involvement with the monogamous relationship. Naturally, monogamy requires the lion’s share of our attentions, so when that attention is freed as the result of a break up, the automatic response is to seek out what had previously rewarded us with good feelings (sex). So we return to the ‘sure thing’; the person, habit, behavior, that rewarded us before. It’s really just subconscious deductive reasoning. When you lack options, the tendency is to go back to what worked before. It’s the path of least resistance, because the perception is that it will be easier to return to that sure reward than to generate new rewarding situations (i.e. fear of rejection). The inherent problem with this is that, although this might work in the short term, what had been rewarding before  has fundamentally changed.

All of this now has been compromised by the ease with which we can now reconnect with our past intimacies. We still consider the person using the same metrics we had when we knew them 5-10, maybe 20 years ago. Our rational minds might, logistically, take into account the time and life changes that have occurred in that span, but our emotional perception is still one of the idealization we held for her. Maybe it was regret for having not invested more, or self-resentment for lacking the understanding of  how the Game fundamentally works at that time, but the emotional reaction competes with the rational observations.

Your rational side will see the physical ravages of time and the post-Wall desperation for provisioning a woman endures, but your emotional fights this with the decades old perception of the girl you knew and loved and wants for that to be reestablished, and particularly under the auspices of your now enlightened view of how women’s game really works. You know you could make it work now because your eyes are opened! Who wouldn’t want to go back in time to run Game on the girl who crushed his soul, or get back the girl he knew he was too beta to keep around?

As seductive as all that sounds, it’s very important to keep this dynamic in perspective. There’s not a lot of profit in revenge, nor is there any realistic way to right the past wrongs. You should always move forward. It’s hard not to take a little personal pleasure in having an old flame seek you out while your SMV is ‘out of her league’ – the reverse of how it was in the past – and you may think it some kind of karmic justice in just entertaining her, but in reality you’re just grabbing at shadows and wasting time.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

24 comments on “Old Flame, New Game

  1. I think this is great advice. It reminds me of the adage, “be careful what you wish for.” I’d guess that for a lot of guys, hooking up with that girl from the past won’t be as great as imagined. There are exceptions I’m sure, but in general, I think you have it pegged with, “grabbing at shadows and wasting time.”

  2. Actually, i think gaming and banging a chick who dumped you is a great way to put things in perspective and see how far you’ve come from your afc days.

    as long as you do it for your own pleasure and as a test of your new found powers of cock, and not to get ‘revenge’ – go for it.

  3. My first girlfriend contacted me via facebook a couple of years ago. We started talking and evidently she’s chained to a provider dude that “doesn’t like to do anything but sit around and drink beer” so she’s looking to get out. In the meantime she went back to school. She recently graduated, and her next facebook post was about how now that school is finished it’s time to get back in the gym 5 days per week. Anyone see where this is going?

    I played around with the idea of hitting it again. She wanted to meet up, but not at my place because she said “you know what would happen if we find ourselves alone together”. The more I think about it the more I am glad I didn’t do it. Not only was she a cheating skank back in the day, but she’s now a slightly heavier 40 year old skank. Hubby scraped her up from the strip clubs after I broke up with her. Let one of her other ex boyfriends (I’m sure I wasn’t the only one she reconnected with) have fun nailing her. It would be fun to grudge fuck her in the ass like I should have done back in the day, but I have a feeling that if I were to go there a little part of my soul would die. No thanks.

    Speaking of ego preservation, remember the hottie I was with last year that I pulled the preemptive breakup on Rollo? The more I think about it the more I realize that when I banged her one last time after contacting her a couple of months post breakup for her it was ALL about her preserving her ego. She was rejected and this was her opportunity to salvage her self esteem. Almost makes me wish I hadn’t gone there.

    Nah….who am I kidding? No regrets!

  4. This is off-topic, but here is a Robert Greene quote which I just happened to stumble upon: “When you show yourself to the world and display your talents, you naturally stir all kinds of resentment, envy, and other manifestations of insecurity… you cannot spend your life worrying about the petty feelings of others.” I thought you might want to use that quote sometime.

  5. It’s amazing how a simple shift in the guys frame over time the effect it can have on ex’s or past women you have known. They can even get quite angry. Things like “you’ve changed”, “you’re not the same anymore” etc but at the same time their attraction is amplified through the roof.

  6. I’ve acctually banged 4 or 5 of my ex girlfriends. It was generally not great but did not leave me worse off than if I had not done it. It really is low hanging fruit and there was hardly any emotional attachment involved. Still debating if I should do my ex wife, who recently seperated, I guess it is a bad idea, but ultimatly, I’m a weak man who often falls for temptation, so, well.

  7. Odd coincidence:

    This relates frighteningly well to a comment I left a couple days ago at the Château.

    As always, thanks for your insight.

  8. I’ve found the past of failed relationships can never be forgotten or repaired. It’s always in the back of the minds of the couple.

    In other words, what caused the split the first time around will become the major focus the second time around and it will never go away. Trying to rekindle the romance is basically a suicide mission. A complete waste of time.

    Don’t embarrass yourselves by trying to revive dead relationships, guys. Let them die with dignity. I’ve paid my dues and learned this the hard way, fellas.

  9. The more I read your articles – the more respect I have for you.
    You go very deep inside man’s (humans ?) soul.
    Keep doing good job. I wish you all the best.

  10. Wudang – phenomenal link. It’s almost worth committing to memory. Fantastic analysis. I think the most brilliant and succinct I have read to date.

  11. Bumped into my ex unicorn oneitis last week, the girl/ lady who crushed me and led me here.

    Background on her and why I thought she was a unicorn at the time;
    Even though she was 39 when we met she is a physical outlier and just my type, easily a hb9 to me.

    This lady was married at 19 and divorced at 35 ( hubby cheating with his PA). Only one other relationship since the divorce that lasted 1 year before he moved away due to work and she didnt want LDR. So she presented herself as a “good girl” with an n count of 2. Two sisters both married before 22 both still married and happy so ostensibly good upbringing so I leaned toward believing her n count.

    No social media, no tattoos, no piercings no drugs goes to the gym not on tinder etc the full package , she was very against social media and dating apps saying she didn’t believe it was right to use FB etc if you are with someone. On our first date she received a phone call and actually asked my permission to take it, she also asked my permission to be excused to go to the bathroom later on!

    This was a first for me I’ve never experienced such feminine charm and grace either before or since and coupled with her looks and fantastic body it was an intoxicating combination. In short I was sold hook line and sinker.

    The split came just 2 months later I had arranged a 4 day weekend city break that cost me £1200 in flights/hotel and to cut a long story short she had a panic attack in the airport due to fear of flying and we got to the gate too late to board the flight.

    I handled it badly, just left her there went to a bar and ignored her calls/texts. She dumped me by text later that day saying I shouldn’t have left her!

    I was absolutely smitten by this girl and totally heartbroken for months afterwards. I told her I regretted the way I handled it and wanted to see her but she refused so I never contacted her again.

    So last week almost 4 years after finding TRM I bump into this girl and it was good to see her but I was working so we arranged to meet for a catch up drink yesterday.

    In the 4 years that have passed I would say her SMV has fallen to hb7.5 due exclusively to about 15lbs of weight gain that she attributed to a knee injury that meant 5 months off the gym, but apart from that she is still better looking than 95% of women her age. So I would say now our SMV is about equal.

    The catch up drink went well and I still have massive attraction for her, we have arranged to meet again.

    However with my red pill awareness I’m just not that excited about this potential “second chance”. I would have done anything for her 4 years back but now m left thinking ” what can she do for me? Does she bring enough to the table at 43 to make it worthwhile?”.

    I’m aware that while always being hot for her age her SMV is on decline at a faster rate than mine but I’m also aware how difficult it is to find a feminine girl who is not an alpha widow and emotionally fucked up!

    I’m torn between ignoring her and continuing my red pill journey alone or trying again with her with my red pill knowledge and frame.

    As it never ended due to cheating or disrespectful behaviour I’m tempted to give it a try. And I know that I’ll be able to smash all her shit tests out of the park.

    But the Disney fantasy I once held for her has definitely gone despite her many qualities I’m aware she’s not a unicorn and AWALT etc.

    I’m just not that excited about her as I was but I think that would be the case with any girl now due to internalising red pill realities.

    Guess I might use it as an experiment and will report back how it goes!

    @ Rollo Thanks man I know without this blog this meeting would have been a disaster of pedestalization and beta backsliding.

    It will be interesting to see how the “old flame new game” experiment goes!

  12. Will do but might be a while as I’m busy at work for the next month and in 10 days she goes to Florida for 3 weeks with her 10 year old daughter so could take time to see how it plays out.

    Will report back for anyone who is interested in this dynamic , see how she reacts to my frame etc.

  13. ” . . . 15lbs of weight gain that she attributed to a knee injury that meant 5 months off the gym . . .”

    . . . but didn’t mean any time off the pantry. Weight is controlled by pizza reps. Time off the gym is an excuse, not a reason.

  14. To be fair I think I over estimated that it’s probably more like 8-10 , still has a nice body.

  15. Nope no apology just trying to paint a realistic picture of her SMV she’s only 5ft 3 and curvy Latina type body just noticed a bit more weight in her face and ass but probably overplayed it at 15lbs considering her height.

    Believe me I’m well aware of the dangers of catching feels again for this chick but feel that I really have internalised red pill concepts I’m intrigued to see how she reacts to my new frame etc no way she’s going on a pedestal I’m aware of the dangers.

  16. Also if you take her back to show her how you’ve changed and become more alpha over your beta past, you’re overlooking the fact that taking her back shows you haven’t changed at all. Just the taking her back will reduce her attraction to you. She’s riding the high of the possibility you might. When you actually do it’s game over. Move on.

  17. Fk me Rollo. This is exactly my situation ~ I even bookmarked this post as ‘OMG’ ~ I was 37 she was 21 it lasted 3 years & yes she dumped me … 20 years ago (She was a semi-famous 6’0 musical theater dancer / actress). Internet came, brought red pill & your books … none of which existed for me in 2000. Now she’s 3,600 miles away, SAYS she hasn’t had a relationship in 12 years & is sexting (including false memories of what she claims I loved) She’s now 45 next, her SMV in free-fall, mine in the ascendant. Those last 2 paragraphs above tho. You’re speaking directly to me there. Thanks for your work Sir

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