The Nature of the Game

I had a reader ask me some questions recently and in answering it gave me some food for thought.

Are we stuck in our Alpha fucks/Beta cucks categories? Should we attempt to blend the two categories into the ultimate hybrid?

Or is there nothing we can do, but attempt to use the information that you have (brilliantly) given us as a navigational tool to find our way through this world and godspeed to every fellow?

Before this I came across these Tweets from Rian Stone:

I think a lot of guys new to Red Pill awareness tend to apply qualifiers to the ideas of what is Alpha and what is Beta. In a similar respect a lot of plugged-in Blue Pill conditioned ‘Beta’ men like to make similar qualifications, but their understanding is rooted in what their conditioning has convinced them of. For the newly unplugged guy, Alpha is whatever he hadn’t been doing before with women that is now working for him once he flipped his own script. For the plugged in guy, whatever he’s been convinced of that women say they want is ‘Alpha’ to him – and usually that means whatever benefits a woman’s sexual strategy in terms of long term provisioning, parental investment and security. They just don’t realize their own utility to women in that game.

That said, I don’t disagree with Rian here. Over the course of fifteen years and three books I have made every effort to correct critics who insist that “all those Red Pill guys think Alpha men are Silverback Gorillas or Wolves.” Roissy once called this Etymology Hate:

5. Etymology Hate

Hater: Your definition of an alpha male is false. In the animal kingdom, the alpha male is leader of the pack, not a cad/badboy/jerk who pumps and dumps women.

Isn’t it just like a nerd to get hysterical over the appropriation of a narrow-sense scientific term to conveniently illustrate broader truths about men and women.

These “broader truths” are why I still use Alpha and Beta as descriptions for men and their mindsets. Critics and disingenuous haters like to think that even considering men or behavior sets as being Alpha or Beta is cause for dismissing whatever is being said. There’s a reason for this blanket disqualification which I’ll cover in a moment, but what they (willfully) misunderstand is that these classification are abstractions for bigger ideas. Alpha and Beta are placeholder terms necessary to consider more complex ideas in intersexual dynamics. For the most part, when I hear or read Blue Pill conditioned men mock the idea of Alpha men and insist that it’s a direct derivative of believing those ‘idiot Red Pill guys thinking they’re Alpha wolves or Silverback gorillas’ I know that I’m not dealing with a serious debate. More on this later.

Rian is also correct in his observation that both Red Pill aware men and critics alike tend to think of Alpha and Beta as specific archetypes of men. I’ve written almost a dozen essays about the nature of Alpha, but in each one I make an attempt to dispel the archetype of what an Alpha or a Beta man is. The Beta archetype is easy to agree on because almost no guy wants to be a “beta male”. As would be expected we tend to think of betas as the stereotypical ‘cuck’ or ‘soy boy’, or the Nümale with his fear grimace agape.

I should point out that even the guys who we would categorize as Betas don’t think they are. Very few Beta men look in the mirror and go “damn, I gotta Alpha up”. They believe that they are the vanguard of the new definition of Alpha; that they and women have evolved beyond the visceral realities of Hypergamy and Beta is the new Alpha. Recently there’s been a concerted social effort to redefine what is acceptable masculinity in the wake of the narrative shift that would have us accept that all masculinity is toxic.

For men there will always be a want to believe that whatever qualities make up their own personality and their own lifestyle is what should define what is “alpha”. From Alpha:

Guy’s like Corey [Worthington] infuriate men who have invested their self-worth in the accomplishments of what they think ought to be universally appreciated and rewarded. So when they’re confronted with a natural Alpha being undeservedly rewarded for brazenly acting out of accord with what they think the rules ought to be, they seethe with resentment. The natural response in the face of such an inconsistency is to redefine the term ‘Alpha’ to cater to themselves and their accomplishments as “real men” and exclude the perpetrator. The conflict then comes from seeing his new definition of Alpha not being rewarded or even appreciated as well as a natural Alpha attitude and the cycle continues. Your respect (or anyone else’s) for an Alpha has nothing to do with whether or not he possess an Alpha mindset. 3 failed marriages and 100+ lays has nothing to do with his having or not having an Alpha mindset.

In the same way that a Blue Pill conditioned “beta male” believes he best represents the new “alpha” definition, so to do a lot of Red Pill aware men who play the same game of applying their own traits to what should be considered or appreciated as “alpha”. Nowhere is this more apparent than in Trad-Con circles – an Alpha is a guy who takes care of his family and is respected as the head of the home. He takes care of his duties to family, God and country, etc., etc. Really all this is is another grab at affirmation of personal worth. Blue Pill “betas” believe exactly the same self-fulfilling thing from a different set of ideological beliefs.

In the process both the plugged-in and the unplugged create convenient archetypes for the opposite of the apex they want to believe they are and what they hope will be confirmed and rewarded. Usually these are binary caricatures: the Alpha ‘Chad’ is usually whatever image of the popular high school jock that used to be their nemesis fits, while the Beta ‘doormat’ is the George McFly character whose introversion and lack of social intelligence places him at the bottom of the dominance hierarchy. Either one of these guys can be seen in a positive or negative light depending on the perspective of who’s doing the viewing. To the Nümale, whatever that classic Beta does should be what’s appreciated as ‘alpha’ and to the Trad-Con an Alpha is the guy who dominates, but only insofar as he sticks to what they think is his ‘duty’.

Funny how both tend think the Alpha Playah, the self-important ‘Cad’ who women tingle for, who follows his own sexual strategy shouldn’t be considered ‘Alpha’ in spite of women consistently, predictably rewarding him with sex and genuine desire.  Rian nailed this part; Alpha makes her wet, Beta makes her secure. Our Instinctual interpretive process understands the visceral reasons why women get worked up for that physically ideal guy who also completes the fantasy of the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy. But our Emotional and Rational processes want to recreate a reality in which what we have is what women really want. So we try to persuade and convince women to act against their own Instinctual interpretive process with respect to what they should find sexy and genuinely desirable – us, just as we are. We want to change the Game to fit our capacity, our skill, our genetics, to excel in it.

Beta men don’t just hope that women will perceive their own redefinitions of ‘alpha’ as the accepted ideal, they build lives and systems of belief around convincing others and themselves that we’ve evolved past the visceral realities of what arouses women. Trad-Con men, even Red Pill aware men, do something similar – they hope that their own definition of what should constitute Alpha, and best describes themselves, will likewise supersede the natural evolved impulse of what a woman’s hindbrain perceives as an ideal Hypergamous opportunity.

Alpha Seed, Beta Need

T-rex doesn’t want to be fed; he wants to hunt. You can’t just suppress sixty-five million years of gut instinct. – Dr. Grant, Jurassic Park

Hypergamy wants what Hypergamy wants, but it’s also important to remember that Hypergamy has two sides; Alpha Seed and Beta Need. When we look at the dynamic of Ovulatory Shift we see this play out. In a woman’s proliferative phase of her menstrual cycle she is predisposed to seek out sexual opportunities with high SMV, masculinized, dominant (to the point of arrogance) men. In her luteal phase she seeks comfort, rapport, security and protection qualities in men. Alpha Seed, Beta Need. As Rian pointed out, we’ve made archetypes (and caricatures) of the type of guy who embodies these needs, but we do so to persuade a woman’s evolved Instinctive understanding of what they are. Women’s hindbrains want to hunt for Hypergamous opportunity, men’s rational (and emotional) process wants to ‘feed’ Hypergamy by redefining what that Instinct should want.

Where both Nümales, Trad-Cons and more than a few Red Pill aware men get it wrong is believing that the security Beta represents should also be what gets her wet. We live in a day and age where men are so feminized that 80%+ default to ‘beta’ behaviors and mindsets because they believe it’s what arouses women. I’ve also written many essays about how anxiety, urgency and (sexual) tension are necessary factors in the ‘enthusiastic’ sex women have with men they genuinely desire. When it comes to comforting a woman, rapport, honesty, emotional investment and security the Beta men of today have been acculturated to have it all in spades. Where they fall short is the Alpha capacity to generate tingles based on making women uncomfortable. One reason men have a tough time with Red Pill awareness is because it all seems so counterintuitive to everything they’ve ever been conditioned to believe about women and sex and how to initiate it.

If you read Roissy’s old categories of Beta to Alpha it follows a predictable pattern. The same applies to Vox Day’s socio-sexual hierarchies (Omega, Gamma, Sigma, Delta, Beta, Alpha, etc), but what we’re really defining in these ranking is a male dominance hierarchy as it applies to women’s sexual selection process – Alpha seed, Beta need – and according to any individual woman’s capacity to demand any particular rank of man.

To answer the first question I began with here, I don’t think the “categories” ever really end because dominance hierarchies are something innate to our world. So, rather than think we can change this, change the nature of reality as equalism attempts to, I think men ought to learn to play it better. The nature of the game doesn’t change. In fact, the equalist mindset that wants to change it ends up making those who accept it and play it well appear that much more exceptional. 

Why? Because the game doesn’t change and our hindbrains know this. So when we see a man who is a “good player” of the game we evolved to play, who became so in spite of all the foolish efforts to change the game to better fit those who don’t play it well, our instincts are attracted to that person that much more. In other words the guy who Just Gets It is even more attractive in a world that women’s hindbrains know is trying to convince her that he shouldn’t just get it. This is why even the most staunch, egalitarian equalist feminist of women still adore a conventionally masculine man who looks and plays the natural role of Alpha man well. They still want to bang him, they still want to submit to him in spite of their ego investments. And they’ll coyly, shamefully, but without any self-consciousness admit they love being loved, fucked, protected, secured, etc. by that guy.

As an adaptation to increase the likelihood of reproduction men and women seek to change the Game that we’ve been playing for 100,000 years now. Only in our age of “gender enlightenment” are we so deluded as to think that prioritizing our emotion or reason above the realities our evolved instinct is spelling out for us might be a way to get intimate and reproduce. Women want to change men’s evolved sexual natures – via social constructionism, feminism, feminine-primacy – in order to reproduce with men they would naturally never have a chance breeding or pairing with, and without any burden of their own performance or merit. They want to change the Game to suit their deficits in playing it the way it is.

Similarly, men seek to improve their own reproductive success by also redefining the terms of the Game to also breed and pair (mostly breed) with women that their own Burden of Performance would merit them. This is why transvaluation (vulnerability is strength, etc.) features so prominently in this mindset. It is an effort in achieving reproductive success and intimacy without excelling in a man’s performance burden. This is precisely why Blue Pill men insist on defining Alpha and Beta in as literal a sense as possible. By rejecting and mocking these terms it self-reinforces the misbelief that they, and ‘quality’ women, have evolved beyond the visceral aspects of Hypergamy. By denying the realities of Alpha and Beta aspects in men the belief is it sets them apart from any natural dominance hierarchy. They’re “above all that”, “women (at least the ‘quality’ ones) are rational agents too and above their own Hypergamous impulses” and “people are all unique individuals set apart from all that human nature stuff.” Each of these rationales is linked to a core misbelief in blank-slate equalism (I’ll address in another essay), but they are also representative of an effort to remove these men from a natural dominance hierarchy and place them into a new Game they believe women are also playing and in which they, by default, are at the highest degree by virtue of having progressed beyond the old Game.

 

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[…] The Nature of the Game […]

SJF
Guest
SJF

The flip side of poseur plugged in faux strength that Nu-males and Blue Pill Males espouse (including in their #MeToo Blue Pill exhortations) is the whining of Why does it have to be so Hard for males? And also in the last thread: “Who decided that Males are so disposable?” I just got done viewing an old Roissy post and it complements this The Nature of the Game: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/the-fundamental-premise/ The Fundamental Premise March 21, 2013 by CH Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap. Every psychological dynamic you see playing out in mass societies liberated from artificial constraints on the sexual… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap.

Using this logic, Roosh’s writing is as valuable as Rollo’s, because Red Pill writing is valuable. When distribution is extremely varied, logic which ignores distribution becomes a fallacy.

Is alpha sperm cheap? No, eggs are cheaper than alpha sperm.

theasdgamer
Guest

Search “market for bull semen” and “market for cattle eggs”

theasdgamer
Guest

Betas are disposable, per history

…agricultural slaves had a short life

…mining slaves had a short life

…galley slaves had a short life

Urban slaves had an average life. They were much less numerous than the others.

So, we might average slave life expectancy and say, “Slaves had a shorter life than free men.” That is an example of Fallacy of Division, just like

“Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap.”

SJF
Guest
SJF

Search “Red Pill Quality Writing” and “Trying to Make a Buck Online” and “NeoMasculinity”. And discriminate.

rugby11
Guest

“So we try to persuade and convince women to act against their own Instinctual interpretive process with respect to what they should find sexy and genuinely desirable – us, just as we are. We want to change the Game to fit our capacity, our skill, our genetics, to excel in it.”
To self reflect on this…
https://soundcloud.com/nirvana/come-as-you-are

theasdgamer
Guest

The key word is “discriminate.” The Fallacy of Division does not discriminate.

theasdgamer
Guest

“Sperm are cheap” relies on “semen is the same and it is cheap”…implies that alpha semen is not significantly more valuable than beta semen. But we know that women want alpha semen much more than they want beta semen. CH ignores the demand side of the equation and only looks at supply. “Sperm are numerous” doesn’t imply that semen is cheap. Semen may be in demand way lower than supply. There’s a market for high quality bull semen and none for cow eggs, even though bull sperm are numerous and cow eggs are not, relatively speaking. CH’s aphorism is based… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

When I wrote, ” Semen may be in demand way lower than supply,” I meant to write, ” Semen may be in demand way higher than supply.”

SJF
Guest
SJF

“Sperm are cheap” relies on “semen is the same and it is cheap”…implies that alpha semen is not significantly more valuable than beta semen.

Patent False Premise.

“These “broader truths” are why I still use Alpha and Beta as descriptions for men and their mindsets.”

Broader Truths–otherwise known as abstractions. Not Concrete steps.

Pinelero
Guest
Pinelero

Mind blown… men try to change the mating scene to our benefit, especially if they are not in the 20% elite. Redefining what they want women to expect to find attractive in men despite their natural instinct. Men may be reluctant to give up on the false FI claims of blank slate equalism, since now they have to face that fact that they are really in the 80% Feminzis, likewise, also want to change what men naturally find attractive, by having fat acceptance, slut walks (sluts that are not yours), strong independent (masculine women) be defined by them as being… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

theasdgamer
June 11, 2018 at 5:37 pm

Is alpha sperm cheap? No, eggs are cheaper than alpha sperm.

Nice one.

M Simon
Guest

I’ve always resisted redefining thing to suit my preferences. That is a very bad habit for an engineer. Fatal in fact.

theasdgamer
Guest

Simon, if you are going to compare female and male reproductive “stuff” you need to look at what each contributes…males contribute semen, not merely sperm…females are looking for semen, not sperm. Females contribute eggs, of course. Comparing eggs with sperm is a mistake.

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

The ” sperm is cheap ” thing never made sense to me.

It still doesn’t.

It never will.

theasdgamer
Guest

Blax, I can’t parcel out sperms one at a time and I doubt that anyone else can either. Men can output a reproductive-quality load about once every 36 hours. That’s what needs to be looked at instead of counting sperm.

Women are available for reproduction 25% of the time when they aren’t preggy…when they are pregnant, they are totally unavailable for reproduction. We should look at the impact of those facts.

KL
Guest
KL

Heather Fink appeared on the Dr. Phil show to embarrass Paul Janka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AnzrLBBUDE
Now she is attacking Aziz with hearsay.
https://medium.com/@heatherfink/what-i-know-about-aziz-ansari-201549582e34

j
Guest

There are 3 people on an island. An alpha male, a beta male and a young woman. A group of alpha savages make their way to the island. They say, while holding weapons, “Hello. We are trying to make our way back to our island. but we are lost. and as you can see, we are all starving very much. Give us a sacrifice and we will leave your island or else we will kill all of you.” The group thinks to themselves. “ok which one of us is the least valuable resource we can afford to give them? Which… Read more »

Alpha Jedi
Guest

Once again this a good example of men’s logical natures used against them. Too often the terms are applied in the most basic black and white terms, rather than being expressed in the varying grays that they really are. That’s the dis advantage for Blue Pill men utilizing emotion reasoning paired with logic: They in a sense are playing directly into women’s strategies and in turn rationalizing as a way to discredit the Alpha competitors they hate so much while being able to themselves claim a higher moral and “enlightened” understanding. Slaves making themselves more efficient servants. What a time… Read more »

Rudd
Guest
Rudd

“anxiety, urgency and (sexual) tension are necessary factors in the ‘enthusiastic’ sex women have with men they genuinely desire ” We should never forget that and it many ways I find this to be the core of Red Pill behaviour. Women NEED emotional tension, both positive and negative, but it must be there. If you can create it or a regular basis you will be an alpha in her eyes and reap the rewards. Easy to do in a casual dating situation scenario, more challengin in an LTR. Would like to see an essay on this topic from Rollo, I… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

“Nowhere is this more apparent than in Trad-Con circles – an Alpha is a guy who takes care of his family and is respected as the head of the home. He takes care of his duties to family, God and country, etc., etc. Really all this is another grab at affirmation of personal worth. Blue Pill “betas” believe exactly the same self-fulfilling thing from a different set of ideological beliefs.” – This is JBP in a nutshell. “So we try to persuade and convince women to act against their own Instinctual interpretive process with respect to what they should find… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

J

Without sperm, eggs are 100% useless. They do not matter absent males.

Same goes for vaginas. Without males, they are just useless, higher maintenance holes.

Women nor eggs are scarce, and more are made every minute of every day.

… Unless you are marooned on an island.

That’s not Manhattan.

IAS
Guest
IAS

@Rollo: Alpha Arousal, Beta Comfort (AA/BC, LOL). In the MRP Reddit (I haven’t checked it in a while) there used to be some suggestion of providing some Comfort or the LTR would blow up. Conversely, YaReally and others in the PUA side relate that for FWBs / FBs, providing some Comfort or Provision (Alpha with a side of Beta?) would typically precipitate the FB faster towards wanting more, which would presumably then lead to at least a Soft next – while the girl gets a (temporary) Beta bf and after a few months returns for another shot of Alpha (seed).… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

Search “market for bull semen” and “market for cattle eggs”

This is because in farming or any breeding program, the male is “half the herd”, assuming one male will be mated with all available females. I’m not sure the ‘alpha seed’ proposition fits this model.

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

Without sperm, eggs are 100% useless.
Actually no – cloning works quite well without sperm.
There are species of animals (rotifers for one) that will replicate thru cloning when conditions are prime.

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

Women’s hindbrains want to hunt for Hypergamous opportunity, men’s rational (and emotional) process wants to ‘feed’ Hypergamy by redefining what that Instinct should want.

So poetic

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Good op. IAS I think the waters get awfully muddy. Ime, ” alphas ” can be family men or men involved in ltr’s. The sphere insists on categorizing all ” alphas ” as ” cads ” and players/playboys. It’s become a standard characterization that only serves to confound. Upping the alpha doesn’t mean acting like some kind of asshole, unless that’s one’s nature. There seems to be an assumption that masculinity is some kind of negative, so naturally if you up the masculinity/alpha, it has to be in a negative and noncomforting manner. I don’t speak to the pua notions… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

Cloning works so well with vertebrates in the wild.

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

“Can you fellow cunts imagine how much better life would be if we could reproduce without having to—-”

“Like, shut up bitch! I’m putting on eye-liner!”

M Simon
Guest

Alpha Jedi
June 11, 2018 at 11:11 pm

George Bernard Shaw once said. “A woman would rather have one tenth of a first rate man than all of a second rate one.” (Approximately)

O.B.I.T.
Guest
O.B.I.T.

One of my favorite movie moments is when Errol Flynn proclaims, “There’s a little bit of Don Juan in every man!” That may be debatable but it’s understood here that most of us are some mix of alpha and beta — and however you define these the key is the right timing, the right proportions, the right recipe to whip up the best you and whet her taste for it. Roll your eyes and go, “Oh God not another Star Trek reference,” but the series actually did a fascinating take on alpha/beta very early on, when the characters were still… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

IAS
June 12, 2018 at 4:40 am

Me (to her): “To get comfort I require total surrender. If you are fine with temporary comfort, temporary surrender will work. If you want continuous comfort I require continuous surrender.”

In other words if she wants to be happy it is her job. Funny enough the surrender itself gives comfort.

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

@IAS:

“Me (to her): “To get comfort I require total surrender. If you are fine with temporary comfort, temporary surrender will work. If you want continuous comfort I require continuous surrender.”

Sounds like negotiating desire. If you have to explain this “overtly” then you will receive obligatory compliance.

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

Here’s the trailer:

“Her ex-friend shared with me a sex tape that shows my wife engaging in intimacy with at least 10 men during one of her paid encounters.

I’m very angry and troubled by these upsetting revelations.”

O.B.I.T.
Guest
O.B.I.T.

@Agent P

It’s especially pathetic when the guy takes pains to insist that “Please note that this letter is NOT a critical chastisement of sex trade workers. I sympathize with the plight of women who opt for work in occupations that come with inherent risks.”

marelius
Guest
marelius

@ASD – “Men can output a reproductive-quality load about once every 36 hours. That’s what needs to be looked at instead of counting sperm.”

Citation needed. I suspect none can be found, because thats BS

j
Guest

@blax

“Without sperm, eggs are 100% useless. They do not matter absent males”

lol. In my silly hypothetical scenario, if you’d sacrifice the beta male, the alpha male and woman would have alpha children.

If you’d sacrifice the alpha, the beta male and woman would still have children. She’d much prefer to breed with the alpha but he’s the only option now and girls wanna fuck yo!

If you sacrifice the woman…well now you are left with the alpha male and beta male. Aka No offspring.

Sperm is cheap. Eggs are expensive.

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

@J

So you’re saying that if society couldn’t fuck over beta’s it would fuck over alphas? If so, isn’t that what’s happening?

copperfox3c
Guest

What’s often forgotten or misconstrued is that much of Red Pill theory and TRP jargon is intended as heuristics, not hard and fast rules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic). People often confuse the two. Heuristics are useful in everyday life, they allow us to make good choices based on what happens “most” of the time, and deal with the exceptions as they arise. The problems arise when people begin to take them as an unbreakable rule that is always true, black-and-white thinking. Alpha and Beta are not “rules”, nor AWALT or any other RP principle. They are heuristics. Most of what we teach at… Read more »

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

I thought Alpha was contextual in many cases. And also comes with the rider than one shall know an alpha by how women act towards the subject. do they suspend the normal rules for the subject? He may be alpha.

social dominance can be a bit fluid when it comes to context.

walawala
Guest
walawala

Do you need to be irrationally confident and not give a fuck about what anyone thinks or does? I would seriously doubt any man would ever reach this state. At some point every guy worries, every guy becomes insecure, every guy second-guesses himself. So does that mean there is not constant state of alpha and beta is the default position? I’ve struggled with this question. There are times when I’m irrationally self-confident. Then i’ll suffer a setback—could be anything—and the find myself lapsing into that beta self-pitying state. I now do it less and less for a variety of reasons.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

It is interesting how many Blue Pill / Red Pill issues can be boiled down to a few words: “Ought” and “Is”. This is a really fine-grained essay by Rollo exploring the topic. Over and over “Ought” and “Is” are in tension, including what Red Pill / The Glasses men default down to things like: Women’s hindbrains want to hunt for Hypergamous opportunity, men’s rational (and emotional) process wants to ‘feed’ Hypergamy by redefining what that Instinct should want. It’s like the old joke about the perfect dog food that wasn’t selling. The company has a mass meeting to figure… Read more »

Playdontpay
Guest
Playdontpay

When it comes to attraction and genuine desire women are as base in their instincts as men. They just hide it better to protect their value as a “quality woman” but it’s all bullshit, they want to get fucked by Alphas and will only begrudgingly settle for less when forced to by the reality of her options. There is nobody more shallow than a young woman in her prime, never forget this when a women who was previously uninterested in you offers you her older self as a consolation prize after being sport fucked by Alphas till they didn’t want… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Agent P
Train Wreck of the day:

Seems like one of these shows up just about every year. Makes me wonder how many other such wrecks don’t make the news because the Master Beta is not about to let anyone else know. Not to mention the girls that are better than average at lying to their converted orbiter…

But hey, tradcons, ManUP, right?

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling
Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Wala

“The search for “Alpha” leads guys to frustration because while these traits are clear, the way in which they’re adopted and internalized is the measure of the alpha vs beta.”

This is why I’ve developed the Alpha Triad… to understand what are the fewest but essential elements of Alpha… the Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic traits and displays…

https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/sentients-dynamic-passionate-authentic-framework/

Copperfoc3c

“Heuristics are useful in everyday life, they allow us to make good choices based on what happens “most” of the time, and deal with the exceptions as they arise. ”

Spergs gonna sperg though…

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

Well we know the poor man is suffering cognitive dissonance. I mean, how “intimate” can you be with ten “partners” in one sitting? That guy must be seeing his entire earth rupture and rip in half right now before his very eyes. FFS he already knows what’s going on and no amount of hamstering can change the fact that he bought a used up whore dressed up as a spring lamb. If he succeeds in not killing her, or himself, or destroying every last ounce of self respect he has, he’d be a prime candidate for a red pill. Something… Read more »

Incubus_Rising
Guest
Incubus_Rising

@Agent P:

Train Wreck of the day:

It is 2018. You don’t talk about past “lovers” and “sexcapades”. Didn’t you get the memo?

See slides 2 and 7.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/family-relationships/21-things-your-partner-should-never-ask-you-to-do/ss-AAyw3bp?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=DELLDHP#image=1

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_model The image of the world around us, which we carry in our head, is just a model. Nobody in his head imagines all the world, government or country. He has only selected concepts, and relationships between them, and uses those to represent the real system (Forrester, 1971). The five disciplines of what the book refers to as a “learning organization” discussed in the book are: “Personal mastery is a discipline of continually clarifying and deepening our personal vision, of focusing our energies, of developing patience, and of seeing reality objectively.”[2] “Mental models are deeply ingrained assumptions, generalizations, or even… Read more »

SJB
Guest
SJB

@Rollo: is that Zan Perrion gone blonde and thin?

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

Wala-wala,

“Do you need to be irrationally confident and not give a fuck about what anyone thinks or does?”

It sure as shit helps.

Irrational confidence = outcome independence

Not give a fuck = unimportance

“Then i’ll suffer a setback—could be anything—and the find myself lapsing into that beta self-pitying state.”

It’s that superego fucking with you again. Grind it to paste. All in on you all the time.

Razorwire
Guest
Razorwire

The alpha/beta archetype issue as it plays out thru the tradcon, blue pill, i.e. “…own definition of what should constitute Alpha…and best describes themselves…” Reminds me of Sailers first Law of Female Journalism (which also flags just how feminine this tendency really is), which states: “the most heartfelt articles by female journalists tend to be demands that, come the Revolution, the journalist herself will be considered to be hot.” In any case, i see the common thread in its solipsism, and relentless ego-preservation that demands the Game, nature, and truth itself to be spun into some multiverse of twisted strings… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

“I treat other men like teammates, but also know that they want my starting spot.

Its not so mich about liking one another but rather more about respect for skill and competency and for the game (truth).”

Razorwire gets it…

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“This is precisely why Blue Pill men insist on defining Alpha and Beta in as literal a sense as possible. By rejecting and mocking these terms it self-reinforces the misbelief that they, and ‘quality’ women, have evolved beyond the visceral aspects of Hypergamy.” i believe in the idea of “quality” women because i know what “quality” means to me i can filter for signs of “quality”/”potential” in every new hb faster than I ever thought possible (thanks Rollo) it’s like when you’re trying to find a tiny screw you dropped on the carpet best thing to do is drop another… Read more »

newlyaloof
Guest

@fleezer,

Write more.

(If not, I may have to start a page for you like I did Sentient and put some of your thoughts on it)

Wild Man
Guest
Wild Man

Mmmm – so women are sexually selecting for something. What is it? Psychopathy? Or is women’s so-called sexual selection of psychopathy-like traits just a weak fake superficial facsimile description of something actually a whole lot more profound that women are actually, more-so, normatively, selecting for? There is talk, talk, talk and endlessly more talk here, about what the magic alpha dust actually is – but it always remains just out of reach as to actually identifying in more focused terms, what it actually is. What is endlessly paraded here and in the rest of the sphere, as an answer to… Read more »

newlyaloof
Guest

@fleeze, ok, man. I got tired of going back and trying to find some of the post you did that made me laugh, so I’m putting them all in one place. Only have a few and I’ll update it when I get around to it.

https://newlyaloof.wordpress.com/2018/06/12/fleezers-thoughts-on-women-and-game/

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

https://twitter.com/RationalMale/status/1006560768609869824

Rollo – It’s worse than not batting an eye, it’s held up as noble.

SJF
Guest
SJF

Oh, come on Wild Man. Fuck you. Don’t be so clinically retarded when discussing what makes men attractive whether Alpha or not: Chapter 19 Male Qualities Attractive to Women (from Practical Female Psychology by Franco, South and some other guy. Franco also has his book Manual of Seduction that precisely lays out principles of attraction and how to be attractive and generate desire for PUA or LTR’s): A pretty man came to me Never seen eyes so blue I could not run away It seemed we’d seen each other in a dream It seemed like he knew me — Magic… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Laurene Powell Jobs in the news lately… big push going on. 20th richest woman… How did a 7 [charitably] gain so much power? She earned it the old fashioned way… Pregnancy. In October 1989, Steve Jobs gave a “View from the Top” lecture at Stanford Business School. Laurene Powell was a new MBA student and snuck to the front of the lecture and started up a conversation with Steve who was seated next to her. They ended up having dinner together that night.[12] A year and a half later on March 18, 1991, they married in a ceremony at the… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient
Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

Caught a portion of bachorlette that diplayed alpha/beta aspects. Male model Jordan(alpha looks) talks about having 4000 tinder matches and 100% swipe success rate. David goes to bachlorette to try and use that info to disqualify Jordan as not being good for her (super beta behavior), thereby endearing himself to her. bachorette makes joke to Jordan about tinder and Jordan tries beta qualifying because he’s worried about how his tinder matches make him look (alpha looks but super beta behavior) Jordan has argument with David about his cockblock tactics and lets David get under his skin so much that when… Read more »

Lost Patrol
Guest
Lost Patrol

Body language not good with the new guy…

He looks like part of the security detail the way she ignores him.

rugby11
Guest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UviTg4-shx0
Risk and Food
Be careful of flying fruit…

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Looks like I picked the wrong day to look for a new scroll wheel…

Wild Man
Guest
Wild Man

SJF – I see you as one of the main guys here that obfuscate by way of avoiding more laser focus as to clearly getting at the heart of straightforward questions , like – ‘what is alpha?’. So on the whole you are a minus with regards to moving the discussion along here. You very often stall the discussion, by way of getting lost in the more peripheral issues without (seemingly) understanding core premises. For instance you are making it out like your quotes from “Practical Female Psychology by Franco, South and some other guy”, in some way refutes my… Read more »

JD
Guest
JD

My respect, it is one of the best articles of yours I’ve read and I’ve read and archived almost all of them.
Myself I was/am thinking I am Alfa, too, after converting to RP.
Good lesson of getting cold shower, thank you.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Lost Patrol

You know he is the former Mayor of Washington DC?

Alpha dog? Nah… He carries her bags…

Seriously she is dangerous, she’s just getting started with her $20B…

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/07/emerson-collective-atlantic-coalition/535215/

I put her in the top 10, maybe top 5 with Zuckerberg…

comment image

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Water Cannon Boy
Caught a portion of bachorlette that diplayed alpha/beta aspects.

Kinda like fishing in an aquarium, isn’t it?

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

EhIntellect to walawala
All in on you all the time.

For sure nobody else is…burden of performance.

Lost Patrol
Guest
Lost Patrol

Sentient

Did not know that. Had to look him up. She’s older than him, leading him in those photos like a dog on a leash – but no leash visible. There’s one there though, he can obviously feel it.

A menopausal man-eater with $20B to blow on pet projects. Dangerous is the right word.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Rollo – Right on cue

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/06/imagining-a-better-boyhood/562232/

comment image

Courtesy of Laurene Powell Jobs…

[No relationship to the lax Powells]

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

Oh that is so sick

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Once again: who decided all those boys and young men are expendable?

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Other men.

Because we don’t put a stop to this shit.

walawala
Guest
walawala

Another question to the group: Can people consider you “Alpha” while you consider yourself “Beta”? Which is more relevant how you’re perceived or how you perceive yourself? Fake it till you make it is a critical part of alpha achievement but what if you still have trouble believing it? There are many examples in history of the tough, strong leader who privately suffers self-doubt. I watched Hearts of Darkness the other day. The documentary about Francis Ford Coppola and the making of Apocalypse Now reveals a man who outwardly is unshakable in his confidence and passion for a film. But… Read more »

O.B.I.T.
Guest
O.B.I.T.

@newlyaloof

For your Fleezer retrospective please make sure to include my favorite, “This dick isn’t going to suck itself.”

SJF
Guest
SJF

@Walawala Curious questions, no doubt. In a lot of men’s competitive sports, the goal is to move toward the goal and score. Whether you are going to score or not is, depending on your skill (your Mastery, so to speak) is probabilistic, not deterministic. You don’t score doubt, you score goals. In my profession, I treat patients. Take acne as an example. The goal is to move towards perfection. The patient wants perfection. And I aim to deliver that. Does that ever actually happen? Depends. When all else fails, if a patient is motivated enough, they go to the Nth… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

“Once again: who decided all those boys and young men are expendable?”

What Red Pill Man Cares? (rhetorical question)

And What are You Going to do About That? Come up with a Top Down solution?

Avoid the Unhappy and the Unlucky.

You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease. You may feel you are helping the drowning man but you are only precipitating your own disaster.The unfortunate sometimes draw misfortune on themselves; they will also draw it on you.Associate with the happy and fortunate instead.

j
Guest

@SJF

“You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease.”

Top post on Hacker News yesterday:

https://www.alternet.org/print/here-are-14-habits-highly-miserable-people

HN discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17287239

Fact
Guest
Fact

@ walawala Just my opinion but no you can’t fake it til you make it. That’s the version of game sold by PUAs looking to make a fast buck. However fake it til you make it gets you in social circulation and that has value. Most men who have convinced themselves they are “alpha” are really more like red pill aware, high value betas.

walawala
Guest
walawala

@sjf. The Laws of Power are a must-read for any aspiring alpha. But it created an existential dilemma for me: do I need to be so cunning and calculating to be successsful or should it come “naturally”. It’s the nature/nurture theory of alpha. In the Wizard of Oz the scarecrow, the lion and the tin man are all archetypes of aspiring alphas: strength, courage and empathy are contained in each of them but they never quite find them until they seek the Wizard who is a phony but it doesn’t matter. They all discover what was always in them. Loading...

j
Guest

“fake it till you make it” explained: “Don’t “be yourself.” Terrible mantra. Either “fake it till you make it,” or “be your best self.” Both of which means DON’T be who you are now, take the action necessary to learn to be better than that. “Be congruent in all aspects” DOES NOT mean “be yourself.” People sniff out INCONGRUENCE, which is only sort of semi-related to being onesself. Actors, for example, can be fully congruent in any number of roles that have nothing to do with them being themselves. Daniel Day Lewis needs to be a congruent Abraham Lincoln in… Read more »

markmaesano
Guest

Many good insights here. I think there is a kind of group delusion that many of the bottom 20% share. Its rooted in the (false) hope that all alfa males really are jerks, woman haters, cads, etc… It’s a belief in a caricature and not a person. Sometimes you see this get taken to the extreme with the right combination of numbers and environment. It can become a feeding frenzy of piling on. You see, the stereotype (archetype?) is the alfa male that every man wants to be around. But that isn’t always true. Maybe without competition, bruised egos, and… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

@Walawala I’ve gone through many permutations in Red Pill. At the end of the day, I’m not like you because I’m MRP, but I see many parallels in the Journey. The art of the deal. You are going through a Faux Existential Dillema. It’s not for Realz, it’s your Feelz. In Red Pill there is no such thing as an Existential Dillemma (otherwise known as where am I and where do I want to go) because the goal of Red Pill is intersexual strategy in a way that works (praxeology). Not an ideology. Repeat: You are not having an existential… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

@walawala

Those with cunning parents have cunning children. Those without must learn. And then there’s schadenfreude and it’s many forms.

Walawala
Guest
Walawala

@SJF. Existential crisis vs crisis of confidence: Heart attack vs indigestion. I’ve encountered a few negative individuals who’ve dented my self confidence leading me to question is it terminal or just a bruise? It’s a bruise. Red Pill thinking allows me to cut through the weeds. A lot of this is coming more naturally than it did a year or more ago. This internalisation is leading me to wonder do you need to be on edge all the time to be at the top of your game? Things that were once hard are easier. Things that were once confusing are… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong

I was the only guy at a table full of guys who, when the local player talked about what he said to a girl responding to his peacocking didn’t say “Dude that shouldn’t work”. It was crass. It was rude. It was “unacceptable”. It was also an undeniably funny alpha devil-may-care attitude. My reaction was to look at the other guys and go “Uh… no. That’s exactly how it should work.”

Needless to say my new wing man is a blast to hang out with.

CSI
Guest
CSI

@aloof Well …… how did we get from there (40,000 years ago ….. the faint imprint of modern humanity’s first stirrings) to here (the here and now – 7 billion+, complete with a stupendous system of organization)? Look at this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13545120-noble-savages I remember in it the author looked at several of the leaders of the various small proto-tribal groups of Yanamamo Indians. They weren’t appointed by inheritance or by formal vote, they were appointed by consensus. Generally the were the most charismatic, confident men with a touch of crazy badassery. The classic Alpha male. The leader had the most… Read more »

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

The paradox of the learned Alpha, or learning RP: If you have unconscious competence in some Alpha traits then consciously consider what you’ve been naturally doing…it’s handicapping. Faking it, or thinking about how to perform masterfully is virtually impossible. Men have Alpha traits, went Beta, now relearned, manipulate their Alpha traits again. It’s not as smooth as an unbroken life of Alpha confidence but is healthier. I look around and don’t consider myself top tier Alpha outside my little sphere of 1. There are guys much physically better, calmer and publicly successful, though BP to some degree in their relationships.… Read more »

M Simon
Guest

Incubus_Rising June 12, 2018 at 7:11 am Negotiating desire? Sure. If you want me act like it. I will act accordingly. Otherwise I will be treating you with the contempt you deserve. You might want to factor in that it is a LTR with (grown) children. ========= Me? I’m attracted to women who want me intensely. Any less and I’m not interested. The attraction has to be such that nothing else matters. I made that decision around age 24 (1968) when it occurred to me that it was easy to get women and I could even get ones who were… Read more »

Wild Man
Guest
Wild Man

CSI – you said: “I remember in it the author looked at several of the leaders of the various small proto-tribal groups of Yanamamo Indians. They weren’t appointed by inheritance or by formal vote, they were appointed by consensus. Generally the were the most charismatic, confident men with a touch of crazy badassery. The classic Alpha male. The leader had the most wives and the most children. You can see how this pattern could have lead to the innate female preference for Alpha males.” Nice summation of Chagnon’s thesis. With regards to your last sentence, perhaps it is also operating… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Noble savages .

Lol.

Veneno1
Guest
Veneno1

As I’ve started reading Pook one thing that stands out is how my embrace of my testosterone has been deemed toxic. I had a harsh puperty in the beginning of my 14th year I was short and chubby and by the end of that year I was tall and wide. My swallowing of the red pill has taught me one thing it’s not alpha or beta it’s that a part of me was stolen and hidden away from me with the intent never to reveal. One thing the RGM has benefited me is the push to action to put myself… Read more »

Wild Man
Guest
Wild Man

Yeah Blax – nice title (provocative). But that’s the point. The book is provocative with respect to upsetting predominant notions within the filed of anthropology that was occurring in the 1960’s, at the time Chagnon was doing his fieldwork in Venezuela, (and such false notions are still apparent in our culture by way of postmodernist uptake of these ‘pretty but false’ conceptions of human nature, that continue to wield some toxic control in our culture, to this day).

But nevertheless Chagnon is a controversial figure.

.

Roused
Guest
Roused

@wildman

Here is a narrative that is practical based on Desire. Consider it a super short field report from this past weekend:

“Honey I’m so wet, I need your dick in me now!”
“Oh my God don’t stop!
Harder! Oh my God harder!
Mmmmppph uuuuggggg ooohhhh!
Harder! Mmmmmuufgghh
Oooooooohhhhhh myyy Gaaaaawwwd!

A few minutes later:

“Holy cow honey, I came 3 times. I’m so hot and sweating, please crack open the car windows.”
Heeeee heeee…..where are my panties?”

One can talk all day about what is Alpha. Or, just do some stuff that works and enjoy the results.

Wild Man
Guest
Wild Man

Roused – ya – I see your point. People want to fuck. Fucking is fun and feels real good. People like to feel real good. This pleasure thing, especially the almost overwhelming pleasure associated with sex, is ….. well it is amoral sort of. Like if morality is about valuation at root, (discerning what is good from what is not, value-judgement-like), well sex, though it can be deemed good or not, is different than regular value judgements that tend to lead to a moral perspective, because the valuing is around pleasure for pleasure-sake. A very deep, probably reptilian script. Really… Read more »

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