The Nature of the Game

I had a reader ask me some questions recently and in answering it gave me some food for thought.

Are we stuck in our Alpha fucks/Beta cucks categories? Should we attempt to blend the two categories into the ultimate hybrid?

Or is there nothing we can do, but attempt to use the information that you have (brilliantly) given us as a navigational tool to find our way through this world and godspeed to every fellow?

Before this I came across these Tweets from Rian Stone:

I think a lot of guys new to Red Pill awareness tend to apply qualifiers to the ideas of what is Alpha and what is Beta. In a similar respect a lot of plugged-in Blue Pill conditioned ‘Beta’ men like to make similar qualifications, but their understanding is rooted in what their conditioning has convinced them of. For the newly unplugged guy, Alpha is whatever he hadn’t been doing before with women that is now working for him once he flipped his own script. For the plugged in guy, whatever he’s been convinced of that women say they want is ‘Alpha’ to him – and usually that means whatever benefits a woman’s sexual strategy in terms of long term provisioning, parental investment and security. They just don’t realize their own utility to women in that game.

That said, I don’t disagree with Rian here. Over the course of fifteen years and three books I have made every effort to correct critics who insist that “all those Red Pill guys think Alpha men are Silverback Gorillas or Wolves.” Roissy once called this Etymology Hate:

5. Etymology Hate

Hater: Your definition of an alpha male is false. In the animal kingdom, the alpha male is leader of the pack, not a cad/badboy/jerk who pumps and dumps women.

Isn’t it just like a nerd to get hysterical over the appropriation of a narrow-sense scientific term to conveniently illustrate broader truths about men and women.

These “broader truths” are why I still use Alpha and Beta as descriptions for men and their mindsets. Critics and disingenuous haters like to think that even considering men or behavior sets as being Alpha or Beta is cause for dismissing whatever is being said. There’s a reason for this blanket disqualification which I’ll cover in a moment, but what they (willfully) misunderstand is that these classification are abstractions for bigger ideas. Alpha and Beta are placeholder terms necessary to consider more complex ideas in intersexual dynamics. For the most part, when I hear or read Blue Pill conditioned men mock the idea of Alpha men and insist that it’s a direct derivative of believing those ‘idiot Red Pill guys thinking they’re Alpha wolves or Silverback gorillas’ I know that I’m not dealing with a serious debate. More on this later.

Rian is also correct in his observation that both Red Pill aware men and critics alike tend to think of Alpha and Beta as specific archetypes of men. I’ve written almost a dozen essays about the nature of Alpha, but in each one I make an attempt to dispel the archetype of what an Alpha or a Beta man is. The Beta archetype is easy to agree on because almost no guy wants to be a “beta male”. As would be expected we tend to think of betas as the stereotypical ‘cuck’ or ‘soy boy’, or the Nümale with his fear grimace agape.

I should point out that even the guys who we would categorize as Betas don’t think they are. Very few Beta men look in the mirror and go “damn, I gotta Alpha up”. They believe that they are the vanguard of the new definition of Alpha; that they and women have evolved beyond the visceral realities of Hypergamy and Beta is the new Alpha. Recently there’s been a concerted social effort to redefine what is acceptable masculinity in the wake of the narrative shift that would have us accept that all masculinity is toxic.

For men there will always be a want to believe that whatever qualities make up their own personality and their own lifestyle is what should define what is “alpha”. From Alpha:

Guy’s like Corey [Worthington] infuriate men who have invested their self-worth in the accomplishments of what they think ought to be universally appreciated and rewarded. So when they’re confronted with a natural Alpha being undeservedly rewarded for brazenly acting out of accord with what they think the rules ought to be, they seethe with resentment. The natural response in the face of such an inconsistency is to redefine the term ‘Alpha’ to cater to themselves and their accomplishments as “real men” and exclude the perpetrator. The conflict then comes from seeing his new definition of Alpha not being rewarded or even appreciated as well as a natural Alpha attitude and the cycle continues. Your respect (or anyone else’s) for an Alpha has nothing to do with whether or not he possess an Alpha mindset. 3 failed marriages and 100+ lays has nothing to do with his having or not having an Alpha mindset.

In the same way that a Blue Pill conditioned “beta male” believes he best represents the new “alpha” definition, so to do a lot of Red Pill aware men who play the same game of applying their own traits to what should be considered or appreciated as “alpha”. Nowhere is this more apparent than in Trad-Con circles – an Alpha is a guy who takes care of his family and is respected as the head of the home. He takes care of his duties to family, God and country, etc., etc. Really all this is is another grab at affirmation of personal worth. Blue Pill “betas” believe exactly the same self-fulfilling thing from a different set of ideological beliefs.

In the process both the plugged-in and the unplugged create convenient archetypes for the opposite of the apex they want to believe they are and what they hope will be confirmed and rewarded. Usually these are binary caricatures: the Alpha ‘Chad’ is usually whatever image of the popular high school jock that used to be their nemesis fits, while the Beta ‘doormat’ is the George McFly character whose introversion and lack of social intelligence places him at the bottom of the dominance hierarchy. Either one of these guys can be seen in a positive or negative light depending on the perspective of who’s doing the viewing. To the Nümale, whatever that classic Beta does should be what’s appreciated as ‘alpha’ and to the Trad-Con an Alpha is the guy who dominates, but only insofar as he sticks to what they think is his ‘duty’.

Funny how both tend think the Alpha Playah, the self-important ‘Cad’ who women tingle for, who follows his own sexual strategy shouldn’t be considered ‘Alpha’ in spite of women consistently, predictably rewarding him with sex and genuine desire.  Rian nailed this part; Alpha makes her wet, Beta makes her secure. Our Instinctual interpretive process understands the visceral reasons why women get worked up for that physically ideal guy who also completes the fantasy of the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy. But our Emotional and Rational processes want to recreate a reality in which what we have is what women really want. So we try to persuade and convince women to act against their own Instinctual interpretive process with respect to what they should find sexy and genuinely desirable – us, just as we are. We want to change the Game to fit our capacity, our skill, our genetics, to excel in it.

Beta men don’t just hope that women will perceive their own redefinitions of ‘alpha’ as the accepted ideal, they build lives and systems of belief around convincing others and themselves that we’ve evolved past the visceral realities of what arouses women. Trad-Con men, even Red Pill aware men, do something similar – they hope that their own definition of what should constitute Alpha, and best describes themselves, will likewise supersede the natural evolved impulse of what a woman’s hindbrain perceives as an ideal Hypergamous opportunity.

Alpha Seed, Beta Need

T-rex doesn’t want to be fed; he wants to hunt. You can’t just suppress sixty-five million years of gut instinct. – Dr. Grant, Jurassic Park

Hypergamy wants what Hypergamy wants, but it’s also important to remember that Hypergamy has two sides; Alpha Seed and Beta Need. When we look at the dynamic of Ovulatory Shift we see this play out. In a woman’s proliferative phase of her menstrual cycle she is predisposed to seek out sexual opportunities with high SMV, masculinized, dominant (to the point of arrogance) men. In her luteal phase she seeks comfort, rapport, security and protection qualities in men. Alpha Seed, Beta Need. As Rian pointed out, we’ve made archetypes (and caricatures) of the type of guy who embodies these needs, but we do so to persuade a woman’s evolved Instinctive understanding of what they are. Women’s hindbrains want to hunt for Hypergamous opportunity, men’s rational (and emotional) process wants to ‘feed’ Hypergamy by redefining what that Instinct should want.

Where both Nümales, Trad-Cons and more than a few Red Pill aware men get it wrong is believing that the security Beta represents should also be what gets her wet. We live in a day and age where men are so feminized that 80%+ default to ‘beta’ behaviors and mindsets because they believe it’s what arouses women. I’ve also written many essays about how anxiety, urgency and (sexual) tension are necessary factors in the ‘enthusiastic’ sex women have with men they genuinely desire. When it comes to comforting a woman, rapport, honesty, emotional investment and security the Beta men of today have been acculturated to have it all in spades. Where they fall short is the Alpha capacity to generate tingles based on making women uncomfortable. One reason men have a tough time with Red Pill awareness is because it all seems so counterintuitive to everything they’ve ever been conditioned to believe about women and sex and how to initiate it.

If you read Roissy’s old categories of Beta to Alpha it follows a predictable pattern. The same applies to Vox Day’s socio-sexual hierarchies (Omega, Gamma, Sigma, Delta, Beta, Alpha, etc), but what we’re really defining in these ranking is a male dominance hierarchy as it applies to women’s sexual selection process – Alpha seed, Beta need – and according to any individual woman’s capacity to demand any particular rank of man.

To answer the first question I began with here, I don’t think the “categories” ever really end because dominance hierarchies are something innate to our world. So, rather than think we can change this, change the nature of reality as equalism attempts to, I think men ought to learn to play it better. The nature of the game doesn’t change. In fact, the equalist mindset that wants to change it ends up making those who accept it and play it well appear that much more exceptional. 

Why? Because the game doesn’t change and our hindbrains know this. So when we see a man who is a “good player” of the game we evolved to play, who became so in spite of all the foolish efforts to change the game to better fit those who don’t play it well, our instincts are attracted to that person that much more. In other words the guy who Just Gets It is even more attractive in a world that women’s hindbrains know is trying to convince her that he shouldn’t just get it. This is why even the most staunch, egalitarian equalist feminist of women still adore a conventionally masculine man who looks and plays the natural role of Alpha man well. They still want to bang him, they still want to submit to him in spite of their ego investments. And they’ll coyly, shamefully, but without any self-consciousness admit they love being loved, fucked, protected, secured, etc. by that guy.

As an adaptation to increase the likelihood of reproduction men and women seek to change the Game that we’ve been playing for 100,000 years now. Only in our age of “gender enlightenment” are we so deluded as to think that prioritizing our emotion or reason above the realities our evolved instinct is spelling out for us might be a way to get intimate and reproduce. Women want to change men’s evolved sexual natures – via social constructionism, feminism, feminine-primacy – in order to reproduce with men they would naturally never have a chance breeding or pairing with, and without any burden of their own performance or merit. They want to change the Game to suit their deficits in playing it the way it is.

Similarly, men seek to improve their own reproductive success by also redefining the terms of the Game to also breed and pair (mostly breed) with women that their own Burden of Performance would merit them. This is why transvaluation (vulnerability is strength, etc.) features so prominently in this mindset. It is an effort in achieving reproductive success and intimacy without excelling in a man’s performance burden. This is precisely why Blue Pill men insist on defining Alpha and Beta in as literal a sense as possible. By rejecting and mocking these terms it self-reinforces the misbelief that they, and ‘quality’ women, have evolved beyond the visceral aspects of Hypergamy. By denying the realities of Alpha and Beta aspects in men the belief is it sets them apart from any natural dominance hierarchy. They’re “above all that”, “women (at least the ‘quality’ ones) are rational agents too and above their own Hypergamous impulses” and “people are all unique individuals set apart from all that human nature stuff.” Each of these rationales is linked to a core misbelief in blank-slate equalism (I’ll address in another essay), but they are also representative of an effort to remove these men from a natural dominance hierarchy and place them into a new Game they believe women are also playing and in which they, by default, are at the highest degree by virtue of having progressed beyond the old Game.

 

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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SJF
SJF
3 years ago

@walawala You expressed your conundrum well. We’ve all been there at times. And it’s healthy to question “the process”–the red pill script. What I’ve been blessed to have as s tool in these situations is a buddy system. In certain situations like swimming in shark infested waters, climbing a vertical mountain wall, scuba diving the Great Barrier Reef, etc, it’s helpful to have a buddy system. Any masculine pursuits should be done with tools in your toolbox. Virtues, attributes, skills, cultivated social assets, etc. It takes a lot of effort to cultivate a red pill buddy. And having one or… Read more »

Rudolph
Rudolph
3 years ago

j
June 12, 2018 at 7:02 pm
“fake it till you make it” explained:

**snipped**

I think of all that the way William Saroyan put it, “It takes a lot of rehearsing for a man to get to be himself.”

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
3 years ago

Blaximus
Noble savages .

Johnny Jack Rousseau? I thought he wuz dead!

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

rugby – wow – this Deborrah Cooper – I watched. She be a dummy. Don’t be a dummy like her (i.e. – don’t be the male version of that). She be looking at only one end of the inter-gender dynamic, trying to uphold female individualism without the responsibility that must naturally come with that, …. the responsibility of paying homage to the actual background intersexual dynamic (which means you actually have to understand that dynamic – you got a responsibility to understand). She is fucking stupid (at least in this vid – otherwise I know nothing about her). There is… Read more »

SJF
SJF
3 years ago

So what you are saying Wild Man is that fucking girls is amoral for men and inter-sexual sexual strategy is not a good topic for this blog? And that it’s Really Hard for our higher powers of cognition to get a handle on that?

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

SJF – no not quite. But fucking (for men and women alike) – the act in of itself – is amoral. It is about pleasure-seeking for pleasure-sake. Nothing wrong with that. Neither moral or immoral – just beyond the ken of morality is what I am suggesting – i.e. – amoral. You read me wrong with respect to your insinuation that I am suggesting that inter-sexual sexual strategy is not a good topic for this blog. How could that be? It is the primary topic of this blog – which I actually pointed out in the comment of mine you… Read more »

Roused
Roused
3 years ago

comment image

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

Roused – you embarrassed for me? Weird empathy that. Instead maybe it is that you are just not following along. So to go back to my first comment on this thread:

– Roused – do you think that women are sexually selecting for something?

– if so,`would you agree that ‘alpha’ is a good placeholder concept for what that something is?

– if so, what do you think ‘alpha’ is then?

Straightforward question – deserves a straightforward answer.

Nothing at all to be embarrassed about friend. Give it a try. Answer the questions.

rugby11
rugby11
3 years ago
fleezer
fleezer
3 years ago

“do you think that women are sexually selecting for something?”

no

they don’t know what they’re doing

they reproduce with alpha, beta, gamma, sigma…

they don’t care

what matters is unique combinations and mutations

but they don’t know this, don’t want to know this and it doesnt matter

“who cares what women want” – some very wise OMG

if i ever had a hardon lasting more than four hours, i would come here and read this fucking guy…

he can take the fun out of ANYTHING. even a four hour unstoppable erection

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

Fleezer – if women are not sexually selecting for something, and therefore ‘alpha’ is an empty concept like you now maintain, then these comments of yours make no fucking sense buddy: “the red pill is the only way in ….. “man is a superman stretched across the abyss” = old thinking ……. “man is the abyss” …….swim around in it. cross back and forth from one shore to the other often. set up camp on both sides and get comfortable playing in the middle of the rushing stream …….. resistance is suffering. do not resist. adapt …….remember: great camps aren’t… Read more »

Roused
Roused
3 years ago

@fleezer

comment image

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

Roused – so you concur with fleezer? ….. that women are not sexually selecting for anything? That idea is so farcical, I gonna clap along for shits and giggle sake. Too rich. Let’s all give a big round of applause and toast THE NONSENSE.

You sure you boys not girls? You guys sure prone to whimsy. Can’t even keep track of the consistency of your own opinions. Hahaha!

rugby11
rugby11
3 years ago

Game saves lives

fleezer
fleezer
3 years ago

“I’m gonna choose to take that like I provoked some anxiety in you.” skimming your ramblings and the ramblings of others has been enlightening for me and it was a side benefit i did not expect from this work i have never had such clear vision or felt so confident in my ability to focus on what i care about thank you to everyone who comes on game blogs and derails them with philosophical nonsense thank you to everyone who comes on game blogs and derails them with negative myopic bullshit thank you to everyone who comes on game blogs… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
3 years ago

Wild Person
“do you think that women are sexually selecting for something?”

fleezer
no

they don’t know what they’re doing

Gonna disagree only on this because I’m reading the Red Queen.

Women have been sexually selecting for bigger dicks for a long time…evolution in action…

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
3 years ago

Wild Person to fleezer
Your last bit in your comment above – I’m gonna choose to take that like I provoked some anxiety in you. Good. You still don’t got this fully figured.

comment image

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
3 years ago

“When we call teenage boys “lovesick” after they shoot up a school following a girl’s rejection the femosphere rages. Call a man “love struck” after he gets rejected and commits suicide and no one bats an eye.” Should we be giving hypergamy, the FI, or women credit for ABs suicide, or mass killers? True in context if ABs suicide was triggered by “love struck”. But was it? He had a long history of depression and neurological issues associated with severe drug abuse and possibly other influences. He alluded to suicide subtilty in his show numerous times and long before he… Read more »

The Silver FoX
The Silver FoX
3 years ago

@ SJF “In certain situations like swimming in shark infested waters, climbing a vertical mountain wall, scuba diving the Great Barrier Reef, etc, it’s helpful to have a buddy system. Any masculine pursuits should be done with tools in your toolbox. Virtues, attributes, skills, cultivated social assets, etc. It takes a lot of effort to cultivate a red pill buddy. And having one or two or three rarely just happens. It normally takes process and development. But when it’s in place there is value to that buddy Accepting you, Acknowledging your value, and Appreciating you. And vice versa…” One big… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

fleezer – I’m not gaming girls. So what. I’m almost 59 and I have got other priorities. But pussy is not such a conundrum. Really never has been. Female drama (which of course comes with the pussy) – now that be a conundrum for sure. But a heck of alot less as life has progressed for me and I have come to understand a thing or two. But fleez, pleaz ….. the gaming part of this blogspot is over at Field Reports. I respectfully avoid commenting there. I don’t even read there for the most part. This portion of the… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
3 years ago

My two cents:

The female human animal nature is tolerable.

The female human “human” nature is the dumbest creature on this Earth. No reasonable animal would physically mangle itself as the human female does, destroy it’s future without male leadership.

All women, no exceptions, are completely clueless what to do moment to moment without someone leading them like sheep. They know what to do to fuck, suckle babies. Beyond that, God forbid, you put faith in them following through anywhere else.

Expect failures.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
3 years ago

Oh, Wildman we know you’re incel. Stop flaunting your failure as street cred.

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

Incel? – hahaha! It still (Eh)llen Degenerate I see. Some things never change. You still one screwy guy. Your comments always seem to be sorta like half right and half wrong, which is worse than nothing. Just a confusing mess. You are a very weird dude. Like a cross between the female flavor of butthurt and misplaced male aggression. You probably suffer from sexual deviancies. Maybe we could start the non-discussion around ‘what does sex feel like to you?’ with you, for lol sake.

Why not give it a go (Eh)llen?

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
3 years ago

Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

boulderhead
3 years ago

Wildman, are there any available women at your mom’s church,that are above your league?

Do you think the best way to lower testosterone and kill the male labido is a bossy woman?

Do you find virtual peter bumping-pissing contests a sufficient substitute to gaming women for sex?

Do you believe sex happens without game in an adult world either her game or his?

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

boulderhead – what in heaven’s name are you driving at? Women above my league? What is that? Of course there are women who may think that. Any woman could possibly think that at any time about any man. But what does that have to do with me? In actuality there are no women above my league. It’s a very stupid concept. If you buy into that you are buying into the idea that the status conferred by women’s status-sorting operation is non-frivolous. But that is simply not true. Status conferred by women is always frivolous – no? You did notice… Read more »

boulderhead
3 years ago

Hmmm

boulderhead
3 years ago

Wildman, Your mom ain’t even trying to fix you up with a rich woman? Is she scxared of loosing her ride? Is she gaming you? Once you master the game it is no longer game but a form of communication. Your own habits of communicating are game as such. Yes I have brought that to heel in my life and do have drive in the sexual direction towards women. Just it is worth mention that bossy women or women in charge tend to shut a guy down or raise his hackles. The young guys at work are always bumping peters… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

Boulder – as far as I can tell, my mama love me … she love me like a rock, and all that. Good to have mother like that. Of course she tries to game me. Always did. She tries to game everybody. But she does respond well to masculine boundary enforcement. So for me … she is a sweet mother indeed. And I love her. So you mean game like that? – like the women shit-testing thing, pushing the personal boundaries around them to see what is what with regards to the people in their lives? You mean that as… Read more »

boulderhead
3 years ago

Wildman, I lost a comment,Suffice it to say game as such is an avenue out from under the feminine primary social order. Game is not the only way out nor the best way ,rather a necessary step in the quest for truth.

Rudd
Rudd
3 years ago

I wonder if followig the nature of game, in this case a blue pill game took Athony Bourdain from our planet. Read closer he was a cuckold to his previous wife and to his Feminatzi girflriend Asia. Funny how she was drilling him full of metoo rhetoric, then runs away fucking a flame the weekend before he did himself. I hope his death creates much needed awareness about what is really going on here.

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

In the end though, Bourdain was just a guy. All of this hoopla will fade into the background soon enough.

Pinelero
Pinelero
3 years ago

So Asia argento is a cuckolding whore then… shame on her. Her complicity in the death of a beta man is a hate crime for sure. Her cats will forgive her, they always do. Even A.B’s threatening to poison the prez wasn’t enough to make Asia wet for him. Blue pill with only virtue signaling game.

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

“It takes a lot of rehearsing for a man to get to be himself.”

Interviewer: Everybody would like to be Cary Grant.
Archibald Leach: So would I.

Roused
Roused
3 years ago

@Wild(not) I’m personally finding less narrative works best. I don’t comment here a lot, but find it hilarious when someone enjoys playing with their keyboard more enjoyable than using your hands for kino, grabbing a nice tight ass or pinning your girl down as you take her. Rollo has spelled it out many times, T-rex likes to hunt, by natural instinct. If you don’t have that instinct you’ve either suppressed it very well with blue pill thinking to buffer your weaknesses or your testosterone levels are very low. I would guess in your case it’s the former. This morning’s narrative… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

Roused – good point on the hunting. I can see how you are right about that – it is natural. I shouldn’t knock it (and I wasn’t knocking the hunt exactly, but knocking some ways of doing it – but I probably didn’t make that clear enough). I used to be ‘on the hunt’ alot, in a particular way, in my youth. When the ‘game’ (you know – in the Mystery Method sense) was on (i.e. – she showed interest, and I liked her too), basically I batted 100%. But that is probably the way it is supposed to go.… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

“Suffice it to say game as such is an avenue out from under the feminine primary social order. Game is not the only way out nor the best way ,rather a necessary step in the quest for truth.” boulderhead – exactly. And the young guys should tread carefully upon their entry into that ‘game’ adventure. Pitfalls abound. It really is … may the best man win, in the end. Such is life. And ‘game’ is only one of the first steps, towards the deeper more sublime quest, for truth (and this quest IS the man’s role as per the Darwinian… Read more »

theasdgamer
3 years ago

@j

Blax properly pointed out that you were stacking the deck. There are plenty of other scenarios where keeping betas is preferable to keeping women.

Flashman Jr.
Flashman Jr.
3 years ago

There is a sale made on every pitch. You sell a yes or they sell you a no.
That’s the nature of the game.

ab17
ab17
3 years ago

@wildman Where I think you’re missing here is that you can’t just sit on the sidelines and hope that you’re good enough to generate a level of attraction. A man who is worth half a shit will be able to walk up to any girl and strike up a conversation. Gaming women is just a small piece of the puzzle to being successful in that arena. And while guys have to be “careful”, if you’re not a total fuck, you’re not going to experience a #metoo scenario. At least my anecdotal experience with approaching women recently has been stress free… Read more »

SJF
SJF
3 years ago

“And the young guys should tread carefully upon their entry into that ‘game’ adventure. Pitfalls abound. It really is … may the best man win, in the end. Such is life. And ‘game’ is only one of the first steps, towards the deeper more sublime quest, for truth (and this quest IS the man’s role as per the Darwinian sexual selection process), like you say. Let’s not lose sight of that. It’ sorta like the story of Percival and the Fisher King. Such is life for men. Glorious though – yes?” The young guys should actually choose when they see… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
3 years ago

“To the Nümale, whatever that classic Beta does should be what’s appreciated as ‘alpha’ and to the Trad-Con an Alpha is the guy who dominates, but only insofar as he sticks to what they think is his ‘duty’.”

“men’s rational (and emotional) process wants to ‘feed’ Hypergamy by redefining what that Instinct should want.”

Only a young man, or an old fool, would subscribe to these practices.

IAS
IAS
3 years ago

@Everyone: it is off-topic here but it also doesn’t fit in the FR.

Several commenters have mentioned soy (which is “hidden” in many processed foods etc.) as a potential testosterone reducer due to phytoestrogens. Unfortunately scientific studies on the topic are muddled due to conflict of interests, companies dealing in soy are funding several studies.

What about milk, and particularly whey powder? There are mammal estrogens there. Thoughts by the community here?

boulderhead
3 years ago

@Wildman,yes very much like the fisher king legend,percifal was the ultimate promise keeper.
https://therationalmale.com/2012/11/21/promise-keepers/
This caused him no end of trouble as a simpleton,odd how he was able to see the grail when none other could.

I think Campbell got it wrong in the power of myth,as the power of instinct and biology tend to recreate the same myths and legends over,not the other way around.

anon
anon
3 years ago

“Rats leaving a sinking ship” For FB to sink (and I wish it would) there has to be a platform to replace it. At present, FB is so ubiquitous it’s the de facto medium for group social interactions. Example: I move to a new neighborhood, I get on the neighborhood group page. I enter a new club, I get on that page. I’m currently participating in about five FB groups obligatorily. There’s simply no better medium for exchanging information quickly (and people don’t seem to read e mails anymore). Before my spouse got this job, I’d never been on FB.… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
3 years ago

Possible
https://blacklabellogic.com/2018/06/15/of-sepulchres-and-suicides/
Transmutation recreation reinvention

Pinelero
Pinelero
3 years ago

@Palmsailor- agreed Facebook is for old farts and social media technology late adapters. I only got it because it’s required for Link-in. FB to younger set is like Myspace is to current facebook users. It’s a signal that you are behind the times of the social media technology spectrum.
Kids are using snapchag and Instagram… because it’s digital footprint is not like permanent record like facebook or twitter. The virtual evidence of your on-line idiocy is not as easy to trace.

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

“What about milk . . .”

Too much sugar.

” . . . and particularly whey powder?”

Eat the cow.

Good luck finding milk anyway, the stuff in the store is less milk than the orange juice is orange juice.

anon
anon
3 years ago

I thought the same about FB (and made the same arguments myself). Then I stepped into another reality and the reality here is different. My son had to join FB for college (it was part of the screening process to find a roommate). I had to join for groups here (obligatory, the key spouse program for rough example is run on FB).

Yes, snapchat is a “thing” now also. But the inherent efficiencies of FB (along with social pressure) will keep FB as a thing as well.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
3 years ago

“There’s simply no better medium for exchanging information quickly.” What is so imperative, but not 911 emergent, that FB is solely required? Don’t answer that. I went to a social interaction site and it provided nothing IRL as described. I walk out my front door and meet new people everyday. Literally. That’s how I do it. If people want to contact me, know what I’m up to, they’ll find a way. What I’m looking for, or most people for that matter, isn’t much found through the social internet or whatever it’s called. A cool RP lesson is how little people… Read more »

IAS
IAS
3 years ago

@kfg: I was particularly worried about estrogens in milk and whey powder. Eating the cow is better but not as convenient to pour on oats in the morning, and whey powder is also convenient to add up some grams of protein intake on days I lift, while I’m still at the gym (then about one hour later I get home and usually have some grilled chicken breast).

anon
anon
3 years ago

“What is so imperative, but not 911 emergent, that FB is solely required? Don’t answer that.” But I already did answer that above by providing a couple of direct examples. There are a lot of others, but those should at least make the point. I’m sure in your situation this isn’t the case. In mine it is. I go out of my home and meet people too. In fact, I’m so popular in the real world if I invite three close friends over for dinner and the word gets out about 50 people talk about it jealously. I’m actually compelled… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
3 years ago

“I’m actually compelled and feel obligated…”

For men, those BP words turn men into plowhorses.

“I understand my reality isn’t everyone else’s reality.”

One of a kind, huh?

Sentient
Sentient
3 years ago

IAS

Eating the cow is better but not as convenient to pour on oats in the morning,

Cook it the night before, rare.

Sentient
Sentient
3 years ago

comment image?v=1510244731

You can cook a however many pound you want strip loin roast in the oven on Sunday and slice off what you want for four or five days.

But really if you want something quick you can just slice up your steak into smaller pieces and saute it in 10 minutes. Often cook filets like this with eggs. Faster than bacon.

Sentient
Sentient
3 years ago

comment image

Brought to you by the Beef Council…

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

Your life will be healthier in the long run it you spend some time in the kitchen.

I alot time to prepare my breakfast most mornings. We tend to put the things that are most crucial to our well being at the bottom of our ” to do ” lists.

Invert.

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

boulderhead – your latest comment: “I think Campbell got it wrong in the power of myth, as the power of instinct and biology tend to recreate the same myths and legends over, not the other way around.” Not sure where you got that interpretation of Campbell’s thesis. See this interview snippet: https://www.sarahlawrence.edu/magazine/lost-found/features/holy-grail.html Your depiction of Percival as the ‘ultimate promisekeeper’. Maybe there is an element of that with regards to Percival when he first commences his quest. But as the quest proceeds, Percival represents so much more: http://www.jungatlanta.com/articles/winter06-the-grail-legend.pdf The central question?, (once getting a better handle on what the ‘grail’… Read more »

j
j
3 years ago

@IAS

Don’t worry about soy. limit your intake of this shit

comment image

and spend some time in the kitchen cooking

Whey Protein is fine (I use MyProtein Impact Whey Isolate). Recommended by all the top no-bullshit bodybuilders (Lyle McDonald, Layne Norton, and Alan Aragon)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2901380/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18187438

as for milk

:55

https://youtu.be/143WfEPzRiQ?t=55s

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
3 years ago

My oldest on my no soy diet: Dad, it’s what soy is attached to that’s making people unhealthy. Can’t disagree. Wildman is similar to the guy at the train station who initially chats you up friendly-like. Soon he’s agenda driven as he pulls a Jack Chick tract book from his pocket and asks you “Do you know Jesus?” http://www.chick.com/m/reading/tracts/readtract.asp?stk=0021 I met these born again holy rollers long ago until I could spot and avoid them. These guys recognize sin and virtue, good and bad, right and wrong, heaven and hell as literal. God to them is a big bearded dude… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
3 years ago

P.D. Mangan, aged 63, has an opinion on diet and chronic disease just up:

http://roguehealthandfitness.com/the-number-one-cause-of-chronic-disease/

It won’t be news to many men here. The center aisles of the grocery are where big pharma makes a lot of money…

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

I get 45 grams of protein, with a a scoop of whey protein dissolved in 8 oz of milk, …. usually about 3 – 4 times a week (on days when my protein intake isn’t approaching what you need if you work out intensely … I do very intense HIIT for about 1 hour, usually 4 times a week). For me I need to get about 170 grams of protein a day on average (some days a bit more, some days a bit less is OK – but is should average about 1 gram per pound of bodyweight if you… Read more »

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

Eh – I have read enough of SJF’s and your comments here to know that you can’t be expected to get it (at least for now), …. same goes with SJF. Among the older guys here, you two are the most lost in the weeds. Weird how you two aren’t called out more on that though. Best if I ignore you two, and you two do likewise (because you both display such a utter lack of capacity to engage in any of my points, ….. instead always trying to put false words in my mouth and such – both of… Read more »

SJF
SJF
3 years ago

“I understand my reality isn’t everyone else’s reality.” One of a kind, huh? Funny, but true: She’s an INTJ. http://www.intjvision.com/intj-female/ INTJ Female: The Unicorn Amongst The Humans INTJ women are one of the most flexible and interesting characters of the MBTI personality types. Only ~0.8% of the human population are INTJ females, so they are also the rarest personality type. You’re unlikely to find an INTJ female, especially if they don’t want to be found, due to the INTJ preference for staying in quiet places where they can enjoy privacy and time alone. Interesting take on personalities: Jung described (or… Read more »

marelius
marelius
3 years ago

Wildman – I smell a keyboard jockey rat here. You are either lying to us or lying to yourself – either way you are a liar. No need for 4 hours of HIIT a week at your age. In fact, probably not possible to sustain actual high intensity for an hour. If you are truly at max level of intensity, you only need 10-20 mins of it 2x week. Any more and you will incur chronic inflammation, risk serious injury, and your muscles never have enough recovery. Better HIIT for 10 minutes truly at the max 2x week, with resistance… Read more »

j
j
3 years ago

@marelius

Lmao!!!

marelius
marelius
3 years ago

Wildman – The central question?, (once getting a better handle on what the ‘grail’ is, as per the links above). The central question is – “For whom does the grail serve?” I believe a better, more relevant “central question” for this blog is “Fisher King, why do you suffer so?” As in, Wildman, why do you suffer so? You see, all the Fisher King (or you) needs for a full recovery is to a) have someone (the hero/quester of the story) ask him the central question, and b) answer honestly – Because I choose to. Once the honest answer is… Read more »

marelius
marelius
3 years ago

Or maybe just Wildman, do you even lift, bro?

SJF
SJF
3 years ago

“…. same goes with SJF. Among the older guys here, you two are the most lost in the weeds. Weird how you two aren’t called out more on that though.” To tell you the truth, I find it exceptionally weird too. I used to be more in the weeds. Less so now. And I genuinely miss YaReally calling me out. I learned a lot in 2016 from those Great Debates. And one benefit of that was I was able to move out of Purple Pill territory into (hopefully) as Red Pill as possible. I want to be, and hopefully am,… Read more »

anon
anon
3 years ago

““I’m actually compelled and feel obligated…”
For men, those BP words turn men into plowhorses.

Words don’t turn people into plow horses.
People turn people into plow horses.

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago
EhIntellect
EhIntellect
3 years ago

Before I forget, Happy Father’s Day to each and everyone.

Blaximus
Blaximus
3 years ago

Right back at you, and all the Dads here.

Sentient
Sentient
3 years ago

The milk debate was settled long ago…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JdzPapFgV4I

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
3 years ago

Look anon,

I attempted to keep the masculinty focused.

You saw a chance to solipsisticly humblebrag about your immensly popular social life obstructing your authentic desire to visit with 3 bffs.

I don’t expect men to sympathize with me. You expect men to see your female perspective here as no different as any other or conversly femininely special or whatever as if we don’t get enough of that IRL.

For the record, this is not a speech police maneuver, just my two cents.

The maturity quip was cute too. I’ll clean my room now.

anon
anon
3 years ago

The subject was Facebooks demise.
I hate Facebook but see vast evidence there is no demise. So I mentioned it and provided examples. I’d love to believe it was true but that is a wish. And as they say hold out both hands and wish in one, shite in the other and see which fills first.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
3 years ago

Facebook is popular but highly complex, many hidden points of failure and to predict it’s infinite hegemony over us is Chicken Little. No different then guys here bemoaning the inescapable, inevitable female ascendency. Hogwash.

Everybody chill, enjoy the weekend. I love you guys!

Jay Fink
Jay Fink
3 years ago

Rollo, I have been meaning to ask you this for a while. I am your age and also grew up in Las Vegas. Would you agree that Vegas was way ahead of the curve on open hypergamy? Everything you write about has been happening in Las Vegas for decades. I can remember back in the 80s Las Vegas men were already lifting and alphaing up when this was unusual nationally. I was the sensitive wimp type and Las Vegas women hated me…my very presence would get them mean as hell. Yet whenever I traveled girls were smiling and flirting with… Read more »

j
j
3 years ago

“No one under about 18 is on it over here, it’s for the old farts only.

They’re using snapchat and instagram.”

You seem to be forgetting that Facebook actually owns Instagram (and WhatsApp for that matter). They still win even when they’re losing

https://medium.com/backchannel/where-weird-facebook-is-king-how-a-college-kid-does-social-3c963703f64

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

palmsailor – you say: “Last time you ran out of bullshit you tried to draw Eh’s family into it. …. That’s still the last refuge of a loser ….We’re not stuck in the weeds, you are” That never happened you idiot. Go back to that thread and take a look again before saying idiot shit. In that vein, Eh above says: “Wildman is searching for consequence as his has/is disappearing.” I ignore that stupid comment (butthurt female type snipe, that shit is), but Palm – consider what Eh is driving at there ….. so, by your own definition – who… Read more »

theasdgamer
3 years ago

I’ve never sent out a friend request.

Ok, I’ll send you one from one of my accounts.

“NoOne wants to be your friend.”

anon
anon
3 years ago
IAS
IAS
3 years ago

Of course Sentient is having STRIP steaks for breakfast LOL.

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

marelius – you said: – “I smell a keyboard jockey rat here. You are either lying to us or lying to yourself – either way you are a liar”. Wrong. Your intuition is mucho off buddy. You said: – “No need for 4 hours of HIIT a week at your age. In fact, probably not possible to sustain actual high intensity for an hour. If you are truly at max level of intensity, you only need 10-20 mins of it 2x week. Any more and you will incur chronic inflammation, risk serious injury, and your muscles never have enough recovery.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

“Of course Sentient is having STRIP steaks for breakfast LOL.” Doesn’t everybody? Find a real butcher shop. Watch for a sale and buy it by the bag (10-14 lbs.) For bonus points, find out who supplies your butcher. There’s a good chance they’ll sell pick up over the counter to you at butcher prices if you buy by the box (4 bags). Cheaper than Walmart ground in a tube. Set a freezer to 36F and an unopened bag will keep for months. An opened one for weeks if you drain it and “dry bag” roll it between uses. “I could… Read more »

boulderhead
3 years ago

I prefer ribeye.

j
j
3 years ago

@Palma

“at some point some kid in a bedroom will think up something else and it will be over”

0 for 3 thus far

https://gizmodo.com/5949784/whatever-happened-to-facebook-killer-diaspora

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/apr/07/bebo-facebook

https://thenextweb.com/socialmedia/2017/11/21/remember-ello-it-didnt-go-anywere/

“And it will happen fast”

comment image

Wild Man
Wild Man
3 years ago

“You could probably draft me for a while.” Thanks kfg – that is a big compliment. But we both know I’m gonna fall behind pretty damn fast. I know it takes long time and alot of commitment to get good. My niece has been at it for about 10 years now – mid 30’s. She is a long and extremely lean 110 pounds (but to look at her – you would swear she gotta be 130). It is only in the last couple of years she has advanced to the point where she regularly wins some legs (in the mountains… Read more »

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

It turns out that Sun was right and Microsoft was wrong. The network is the computer. Linux, which is both libre, free and runs much of the network has been “ready” for the desktop for 10 years and is the better idea that Gates used to worry about.

Yet Sun is gone and everybody is paying through the nose to let Microsoft own their computer.

When Facebook dies it will happen fast. Perhaps literally overnight. But for the moment there are still a lot of old people around.

j
j
3 years ago

When Facebook (the social network) dies – they (the corporation) will transfer their assets to their subsidiaries (Instagram/WhatsApp) and whatever hot startup they acquire along the way. They future-proofed themselves by acquiring, the leader in Virtual Reality, Oculus VR in 2014.

Facebook, Amazon, and Google are gonna be around for a long time

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
3 years ago

kfg It turns out that Sun was right and Microsoft was wrong. The network is the computer. Linux, which is both libre, free and runs much of the network has been “ready” for the desktop for 10 years and is the better idea that Gates used to worry about. Linux has always been the better idea, however it didn’t have IBM behind it at the critical moment. That reminds me, I need to go look around for something other than Android for certain devices. Yet Sun is gone and everybody is paying through the nose to let Microsoft own their… Read more »

kfg
kfg
3 years ago

“That reminds me, I need to go look around for something other than Android for certain devices.” That’s a good chunk of what sent me poking into the world of SBCs (Single Board Computer) like the Raspberries. “Yeah, well, seems like every single comment section I look at is full of ’em..” Well an advantage of starting out back in the computational dark ages is that Linux was ready for my primary desktop 20 or so years ago. I can still get a lot of real work done on a 1ghz single core from the terminal. Only now it can… Read more »

Cult-I-Vader
Cult-I-Vader
3 years ago

Alpha Tells She never complains when I show up at my leisure. Could be 3 weeks between appearances. Could be any time of day. We do not communicate between these interludes. She expects I’ve been around the way polishing plates. That gives her a warm feeling that she is also deserving of my attention. She keeps a room for me. She never asks about my business. She almost resents some home improvement for her place. I gotta do something for these ladies other than pleasure them. I mark my territory making obvious upgrades. Alpha is in the eye of the… Read more »

rugby11
rugby11
3 years ago
rpsp_2
rpsp_2
3 years ago

@SJF “It’s one thing to understand what motivates women and what gets them sexually aroused.” What motivates a woman in every which way is power. “It’s quite another matter to actually be a man who is sexually appealing to women.” The matter is to be powerful. “So let’s take a good, long look in the mirror and find where we can improve ourselves as men who love women deeply.” The first thing you can do, is NOT love woman, let alone deeply. This is rule #1. “Do you think that women care a lot about a man’s looks?” No need… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
3 years ago

What women say…. “A Letter to My Ex-Husband on Father’s Day Katie Smith 1 day ago While we both know we don’t belong together any longer, there was a time when we did. Back then, all I could see was you, our future, lots of children and a house in the country. I got all of that — we got all of that — and then some. Then, our marriage fell to pieces and broke us both wide open. But the love we had, the kids we had, the life we had will forever be a part of us. When… Read more »

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