Old Lies

Apparently no one has bothered to let this poor sap (I don’t know who he is) know that the “Toxic” masculinity  narrative has now been replaced with “masculinity is toxic“. I find it interesting that when it comes to the mainstream societal understandings of what masculinity once was and what it is now – or what the mainstream believes it should be now – much of these interpretations are based on fanciful, anachronistic, ideas of what contributed to our understanding of masculinity now. I’ve gone into my own definitions of what constitutes ‘conventional’ masculinity for men many times before so I won’t belabor it now, however, as the popular narrative changes I’ve noticed some very common presumptions that masculinity critics like to use and are repeated over and over.

The first of these, and the most common, is the deliberate misconception that a boy’s learning to be masculine never left the 1950-60s. In the wake of the Nikolas Cruz shooting this rationale surfaced quite a bit. It still is. The idea is that boys are born as these tender, delicate souls, all naturally ready to emote and sensate like precious little girls – that is until the nebulous evil ‘patriarchy’ gets ahold of them and batters them into “being tough”, not crying and told to stop being such pussies. This is the old anachronism that presupposes western society never left the ‘macho tough guy’ preconditioning of boys to raise them to be these future murderers, wife beaters and misogynists.

This is, of course, the “boys are broken” narrative I addressed in Good Humans. It’s kind of ironic when you think that this narrative would have us believe boys naturally wanting to be boys is a net social negative and it takes some strong intervention in their upbringing to turn them into good humans. So what is it? Are boys being their natural selves by wanting to be rambunctious, risk taking, shit-giving, masculine boys, or are they naturally these tender little emo-beings coming fresh out of the womb only to have their ‘genuine’ sensitive emotional souls crushed by “hyper-masculine” fathers, male teachers and school coaches. This is one of the more stupid, but deliberate, paradoxes the Village and the Feminine Imperative conveniently switch between as circumstances require yet one more anti-masculine response.

Lies for Boys

You can see this confusion in the above Tweet.

Our society teaches boys to “toughen up”.

Actually no, the feminine-primary social order that has been systematically feminizing boys into feminine-identifying men for the past 50 years does nothing of the kind. Since the mid-seventies the cultural narrative took a hard turn to the feminine-correct in raising boys into pacified ‘harmless’ men. We’re going on five generations of telling boys it is incumbent upon them to get in touch with their mythical feminine sides if they want to evolve beyond ‘traditional masculinity’. There is no ‘toughening’ being taught to boys in a female primary education system that teaches boys in a manner that presumes they are defective girls.

…which is okay, but not okay when “toughening up” also means suppressing feelings.

Feelings are perhaps the only thing boys are being taught to prioritize in their feminine-primary educations today. This fact deserves a bit of explanation here. Male and female humans process emotions differently. Women in particular process negative emotions in a much different way than men. Men tend to prioritize information through a filter of rational discernment first and then sort out how they feel about that information in an emotional context. Women are much the opposite; girls process information through an emotional filter first and then sort out what the information actually means to them (and after that, how it might affect others). If this sounds like the essays I’ve written about how men’s and women’s communications methods differ you’re not too far off. Men prioritize the content (information) of a conversation while women prioritize the context (the feels she gets) from a conversation. This is how our brains work, and when one method isn’t socially favored above the other both methods can be complementary to the other.

But in a feminine-primary social order this is not how things work. As I mentioned, for the past 50+ years our educational system has shifted to favor the learning methodologies of girls at the expense of boys. This ‘girls style’ teaching has been the standard for so long now that we largely take it for granted that it is the only correct style of teaching. Today, men account for less than 25% of all teachers in the United States. In the UK it’s 25% and n Canada only 17% of elementary school teachers are male. Teaching is a female dominated profession and especially for younger kids. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics only 2% of pre-K and kindergarten teachers, and 18% of elementary and middle-school teachers, are men. How do you think stats like these affect the learning methodologies applied to boys and girls?

Yet still this lie that boys are the victims of some overwhelming toxic masculinity in their upbringing is the first reflexive explanation we hear from women and feminized men when a kid commits a criminal act. Why?

Lies for Equalism

Because it sounds right. It sounds like it should be right. The presumption is that boys are, in fact, girls; or at least they should be a functional equivalent of girls when it comes to educations. Over the past 50 years the baseless presumptions of blank-slate egalitarian equalism has not only inserted its lies into our social consciousness, but also into our presumptions about educating kids. I’ll repeat, men and women are biologically and psychologically different and boys and girls are equally different. The ways they learn are distinct to their sex. Yet for the past 4 generations egalitarian equalism has convinced (mostly female) educators that boys and girls are functional equals and gender differences are learned rather than innate.

While equalism informs (mostly female) teachers that boys and girls are the same, the teaching methodology that works best for girls and women is the predominant one today and for the recent past generations. The only way to justify this method as the universal one is to presume that boys are the same as girls – just ‘defective’ girls that must be taught to quash their innate maleness. If boys and girls are presumed to be blank-slate equals then it must follow that boys are just as emotion-prioritizing and sensitive as any girl, and it is through a process of an imagined patreo-misogyny social conditioning that boys psychologically cover over their “true” natures – that of precious little (defective) girls. In essence the equalist belief is that all babies are born as little equal blank-slates, but the ideal template for those blank-slates is a female nature irrespective of the sex of the child.

When a boy’s real, masculine, inborn nature expresses itself the first thing it meets in this equalist-but-feminine-primary education is derision and shame. For as much as boys would be boys they are taught that they aren’t good for being so. They’re encouraged to self-repress, self-deprecate their gender and self-police their brothers. They’re taught that the correct way to think is to emote like girls because that’s correct for the template of a “good human”. Despite the female-centric teaching boys innate nature still find ways for boys to be boys and when this happens an egalitarian (feminine-primary) social order presume the ‘bad behavior’ must be the result of the influence of an evil patriarchy that truly hasn’t existed in the way they believe it does for 50 some odd years.

 

As I’ve detailed in past essays, society only sees fathers as tolerable and superfluous when it comes to raising boys. Single mothers are celebrated as super-human and in the equalist lie that would have us believe that women can not only ‘have it all’ but they can ‘do it all’ we rarely question the necessity of a masculine influence in a child’s life. We give it lip service and parrot back the need for a man to “step up and take responsibility as a parent”. The message to dads is always “do better”, because the pretense for fathers is that they are inherently irresponsible and ‘broken’ just like all boys are.

The Village might even concede that a father is some advantage to a child, but ultimately he’s superfluous – that is until that kid is involved in some kind of criminality. Then the questions become “Where was this kid’s father? Why wasn’t he around to teach this kid some discipline and respect for human life?” The children of single mothers are overwhelmingly more likely to be come involved in criminality, but we don’t look at her half-measure parenting as a possible cause. Remember, she’s a super-hero and blameless, so any blame for this kid’s acts fall on the shoulders of a weak or absent father. Then fathers are necessary. Then the kid needed to ‘toughen up’ and dad should’ve taught it to him. And all of this comes full circle and feeds into the idea of father’s inherent incompetence again.

Lies for ‘Defective Girls’

The next lie is that boys can be,…

…both tough and fragile, vulnerable and resilient. Being vulnerable doesn’t affect your manliness.

I’ve written a lot about the lie of transvaluation and  Vulnerability in the past, but this was really in terms of how women perceive men and require strength and dominance. Another aspect of masculinity that is encoded into women’s mental firmware is to seek out men with superior competency. A woman just is, a man must become is the first maxim of a man accepting his Burden of Performance. Part of this masculine competency involves strength, know-how and determination; all things that have been replaced with feminine-primary emotionalism and naval gazing for boys.

Men are expected to know how to do everything and what they do not know, what they are not competent in is one criteria of how they are judged by women. A lot of guys might think, “So the fuck what? I don’t base my self-worth on the opinions of women.” As well you shouldn’t, but it doesn’t change the truth that if you don’t know how to change a tire when you get flat, or you need another man who does know how to do it to change it for you, a woman sees you as less competent – and by extension less capable of providing her with the security she needs from a masculine ideal. Women evolved to see men as a Jack of all trades, master of some.

A man’s vulnerability (taught to him as a child by his female-primary teachers) most definitely affects his manliness. Vulnerability is, by definition, a weakness. It is a flaw in the design, a chink in the armor and vulnerabilities will be exploited by enemies and rivals to ensure that man fails while a stronger one succeeds in all things. This is Darwinism so simple that to question it seems illogical, but in our equalist utopia toughness and fragility find no contradiction; vulnerability and resilience are bed partners. Again, we must consider that this illogical balance can only exist in the female ‘good human’ template and the idea that everything is learned and nothing is innate about male and female humans. Promoting the idea that ‘vulnerability doesn’t affect manliness’ presumes that the person declaring it is in some way an authority on a manliness that has been already demonized and conditioned out of our boys today.

They hate the very idea that a boy might act in accordance with an inborn masculine proclivity. They hate the idea that a boy might learn to be tough and resilient at the expense of a vulnerability (weakness) because it contradicts the equalist belief set. They hate the idea that boys and girls have innately, biologically, different ways of dealing with emotions that don’t align with their belief in a blank-slate. To force them to accept this would be to force them to abandon deeply ego-invested beliefs that they themselves had conditioned into them by the same feminine-primary education.

Boys don’t naturally emote like girls, but when they refuse to align with the female-correct way of emoting we say that some patriarchal macho man, somewhere, in some movie, in some song, in some household taught that kid not to feel. He somehow learned that allowing his emotions to rule over him, to be vulnerable, to prioritize his feelings above his sense of rational self is what it actually is – a weakness that in our evolutionary past was far likelier to get him killed than to earn the praise of his equalist teachers.

Boys are simply not as emotional as girls – our brains did not evolve that way – but because we value the feminine above the masculine today we say this kid is doing it wrong. We say he learned to be an asshole from his macho dad or he learned to love firearms because of the latest rap song or a toxically masculine society that doesn’t exist. A kid like Nikolas Cruz was bound to happen in a world that teaches boys to prioritize feelings above rationality. He was taught like a defective girl. He never learned the masculine inspired discipline, determination and resiliency because all that conflicts with the lie that vulnerability is ever a strength. All that conflicts with his feminine-primary upbringing.

As such, these ‘defective girls’ are unequipped to handle the rejection of a girlfriend. The participation trophy generation, the one where everyone’s a winner and no one ever has to deal with defeat, never teaches these ‘defective girls’ what to do when they finally do taste a bitter defeat. They never learned how to come back from it because that would mean admitting that vulnerability and emotionalism (the female-correct way to handle it) are in fact weaknesses. So, predictably, a ‘defective girl’ like Nikolas Cruz does what any petulant teenage girl would – he has an emotional outburst. Only his outburst consists of gunning down 17 kids with an assault rifle.

The answer to incidents like this doesn’t lie in gun control or further feminization of boys. It lies in reimagining how we educate boys and how we see masculinity as a net positive that can deter exactly this kind of emotional outburst. If you truly want these shootings to stop it’s time we embrace real men teaching real toughness and resilience in our boys. It’s time we teach boys like they will become tough, strong, invulnerable young men we may need to provide future generations with a much needed security. And the time where we’ll need them is coming faster than anyone today really thinks.

259 comments

  1. He he super human indeed,my story mirrors Sun Wukong’s and Blaq Pill. The super human way she would rip my arm out of the socket while beating me with whatever was available, first until I would stop crying then later until i would start.
    My brother and I were kept in the garage on old sagged out WW2 metal bunks,cuz boys are tough, he was taught to despise his father and anything masculine including me. as I was older and couldn’t remember (although being constantly reminded ) any abuse at my fathers hand, the brain washing didn’t take in my case. As a result of my resiliency I was ostricised and odly enough still am. my poor gay little brother”s friends are dropping from aids left and right, and I’m the sexual deviant being 38 years in the same hetro LTR? Guess I’ll try to read the rest of your post barely got past 2nd paragraph.

  2. Totally nailed it Rollo, the strong male mentors that i sought out are the men that saved me from a terrible fate. I believe that male bashing has gotten to the point that the young men of today have no inclination to seek out mentors and only hold ridicule for traditionaly male endeavors.

    It looks as if now we need to be even stronger in the second half of our lives than was required in the begining. As you say coming on fast.

  3. Women often don’t appear to know how to play the “long” game. As much as the FI would like to indoctrinate young males to be vulnerable and emotive, most young men will eventually hear the penny drop when they recognise that their reward for being like that is rejection, censure, shaming etc.

    Kids invariably learn to lie when they connect unpleasant consequences when being truthful. Why does it take so long to learn the same lesson about vulnerability?

    What’s the answer? Do we need a grass roots subversive movement to teach boys that one should never show vulnerability to strangers, and should only turn to male relatives for help (and toughening up)?

  4. I have read a lot of your work and this post like all the rest is spot on. I know that you have stated that you feel this shift in society happened organically – but could it really?

    Doesn’t it feel like it would take both men and women push hard to change laws and media and entertainment to the point were the house is holding the cards?

    I have been following The Great Awakening movement and saw an interesting theory about a potential group that uses the wives of powerful men held in compromise to direct policy change.

    Google Matrix 5 cult or Crown Agents Sisters – pretty compelling stuff. Could powerful men throughout history have been compromised by their spouses and blackmailed?

  5. C’mon Rollo. All my childhood and teenage years I have been taught to act like female, with the hope of getting the best from women and also men. But now, when I look past my younger days with the Red Pill lense, I see I’ve been fooled. My mom, my single mom fucked me. And even now, she whenever gets the chance, tries to fuck me. But I wasn’t like that when I was very young.. I’m changed. Please Rollo help me. How do I do the best for me myself?

  6. These sentiments about the role and masculine influence of fathers benefiting their kids are advocated by proponents of shared parenting (in the advent of divorce). Statistic on lifestyle and happiness clearly show the need for fathers in kids lives. Feminized men are tainted masculinity and expressions of toxic female chauvinism. I have always told my girls that I have to approve of their boyfriends. …. not one of them asked me what type of guy I would not like for them. I wasn’t sure myself until I read TRM but now I know.

  7. “When a boy’s real, masculine, inborn nature expresses itself the first thing it meets in this equalist-but-feminine-primary education is derision and shame. For as much as boys would be boys they are taught that they aren’t good for being so. They’re encouraged to self-repress, self-deprecate their gender and self-police their brothers.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJN9wvR6FKg
    What defines her feelings defines her reality…

    “Women evolved to see men as a Jack of all trades, master of some.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAt5JB96Cdk
    Improvise in the moment you are now alive in…

    “He never learned the masculine inspired discipline, determination and resiliency because all that conflicts with the lie that vulnerability is ever a strength. All that conflicts with his feminine-primary upbringing.”

    MPO Own your though’s word’s and action’s Best part of the essay hands down…

    “It’s time we teach boys like they will become tough, strong, invulnerable young men we may need to provide future generations with a much needed security.”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMz7JBRbmNo
    With all the action and less of the words…

  8. Were it not for an (as yet) uncensored internet and a luminary who can first even see the dots – let alone connect them – it would be Game Over.

  9. Rollo I don’t often post here and when I do it’s in Field Reports about my marriage, but I really thought this was illuminating.

    It helped me think about my relationship with my son and the world “vulnerability”. I think of course men can have emotions and respond to them. It’s a caricature to say we don’t have them or we’re taught not to. We can have emotions and we SHOULD have them. It’s part of being human.

    The important thing is that we are not ruled by them and it is not “emotions first, then rationalise”. It is (or should be, for men), “Rationality first, and then feel the emotions relating to that”. We need to learn how to master our emotions. Not deny them, master them.

    This is why I am particularly concerned about my boy when he threw and smashed his babysitter’s iPhone. I posted about that some time ago. Because it looks like he’s having emotional outbursts and can’t control himself.

    What does vulnerability actually mean in this context? Most people seem to think it means “display of emotion”, but I believe that’s wrong. There’s nothing wrong with displaying emotion and if that’s what vulnerability means, there’s nothing wrong with it. We are not cartoon character macho tough guys. It is a bad thing only if it rules us, overrides our rationality and we are led by our emotions instead of our reason.

    If THAT is the definition of vulnerability, then yes of course it makes us weak and we shouldn’t do it.

    But is that what it really means? Because when I read the mainstream press, most people use vulnerability to mean “showing emotion” and say men shouldn’t be macho tough strong silent guys but should show emotion. Is there anyone really saying that men should be led by emotion?

  10. Marquis

    How is your frame with your wife now ? She had found some PUA stuff on your computer right?

  11. Rollo, while we will not agree on everything, the best way I know how to ‘thank’ you and support your efforts is to continue to point men toward TRM.

    The irrationality…the Cluster B features, if you will, present with so many relationships including Employers/in Business is remarkable.

    My next step is to find a way to…enlighten patients.

    Having faced the…challenges inherent with having mostly female or beta-male supervisors or CEOs and while working in a female-dominated industry (I’m a Physician/Child Psychiatrist in the Behavioral/Mental Health SYSTEM) – I have to be careful with whom I speak and what I say.

    However, as I have been continually working to master my personal relationships (damn, being Red Pill Aware IS nice), raising my son and daughter (yah, their mom is on to marriage #3…need I say more) – I WILL find a way to further help these boys, men and even some girls navigate their Cluster B parents and significant others in a more appropriate manner.

    Unbelievable. Probably 90% of the girls and 50% of the boys on the inpatient units are well on their way to becoming full-blown Borderlines.

    Notwithstanding biological underpinnings (hmmm…exactly how would we have as much diversity in the gene pool if women weren’t, well, ‘women’?) – just check out the kids’ childhoods (e.g. parenting, abuse, neglect, drugs, trauma) and it’s pretty easy to understand why, for the most part, Borderlines aren’t born…they are MADE.

    But while perhaps some can learn to attenuate some of their provocative behaviors, if TRM has taught us and reinforced anything, it’s the need for US to appropriately modify OUR behavior…our ACTIONS. In doing so, others will either work within our FRAME or they will not.

    In any event, just some thoughts from a fan. As always, I appreciate your works and insights, RT.

    -Halp

  12. Apologies if this has been covered before, but here are some of my thoughts on these issues.

    I wonder whether the origin of this “vulnerability as strength” meme comes (at least in women) from the same psychological place as the shit test. One way to frame this could be as a covert way to weed out the (archetypal) alpha vs beta mindset in males. Any male who acquiesced to the request for vulnerability and said something akin to “thank you, I am so glad I finally get to show my sensitive side” has basically shown his lack of the “true” alpha mindset. I guess this would come under “beta bait” in heartiste’s language.

    Put another way – the archetypal alpha doesn’t, by definition, experience feminine emotions. By showing that you are experiencing the emotions but suppressing their external markers you have tipped your hand that you are not the “real deal”.

    From a pragmatic point of view, I would suggest that a good way to explain the mechanics behind this to the uninitiated (whether they be sons, other men etc.) is this: Females get to display their vulnerability in an essentially unlimited way with no drain on their SMV (in many cases it may actually be a net positive). Males on the other hand have to EARN their expression of emotional vulnerability. Males and females alike are generally disgusted at the sight of a weak man crying or expressing strong emotions. But when we see a strong man break down it will be subconsciously re-contextualised by most as further evidence of that strength.

    I suspect this is an expression of the handicap principle – if you are really that high value, then you can afford to handicap yourself. The handicapping ITSELF will then be taken as further evidence of your high mate value. I also suspect that this is what male mainstream writers think they are doing when they push the “I’m secure enough to show my vulnerability” meme. They think any display of emotional vulnerability will be given the same context as a hardened veteran breaking down at a remembrance ceremony. Instead, to most people, it will be given the same context as a 15 year old boy crying because he skint his knee.

  13. This is a universal. Everywhere in the world the same thing is happening. The same story is playing out with adolescent boys (and never grown-up adolescent boys) in every country, the unhinged, rage-filled blow-up. And yet only in America, it seems, do they act out with guns.

    Is it a coincidence, then, that only in America do they have ACCESS to guns?

  14. Women’s worldview at work — same old stuff.

    Having been in and now out of a relationship that failed due to my blue pilled conditioning and my stupidity (and also her own issues), I came to the red pill. Only wished i had found it 10 years earlier

    Now I am developing my own frame simply seeing what’s right in front of me and all of a sudden, everything’s clear as crystal. The so called “intellect” has created enormous confusion where common sense and experience found none.

    Since then I have simply sworn off social media – facebook, twitter, quora, the radio, most of the stuff on TV, opinion articles in the online papers and all the rest — It’s all just total retarded babble to me now. Social media has allowed all forms of BS to pass on as truth. I’m frankly shocked at the impact it’s had on me. Even without seeing the author’s name, I can totally tell if it’s a woman’s writing.

    Once you create your frame and power and start maintaining by looking at what’s actually happening, all this stupidity just amazingly bounces right off you. In this men have an inherent analytical advantage to examine life impersonally, think critically, recognize patterns, find the truth,see the causes and long term effects of what’s happening around them in a way women simply don’t.

  15. @AustralianIrishman

    Wonder whether the origin of this “vulnerability as strength” meme comes (at least in women) from the same psychological place as the shit test. One way to frame this could be as a covert way to weed out the (archetypal) alpha vs beta mindset in males. Any male who acquiesced to the request for vulnerability and said something akin to “thank you, I am so glad I finally get to show my sensitive side” has basically shown his lack of the “true” alpha mindset. I guess this would come under “beta bait” in heartiste’s language.

    It’s not that complicated. Females simply don’t get what the male mind is like from behind enemy lines. Their ideas are limited to their feminine experience. They by default think men must be like women on the inside only trying to act male (which rather describes them more accurately)

    a) They think the feminine way is the only and correct way. A man is a puzzle beyond her reach.
    b) Oh yes, it is a subconscious, persuasive, shit test. Women keep saying “We know you’re just wearing a mask when you’re just weak on the inside”.

    Any man who knows who HE is and how he thinks and feels will dismiss this statement as mere babbling and treat it accordingly (because that’s really not how a man thinks and feels). This is sensed by a woman subconsciously as a show of strength. But if you affirm their statement, you just proved you’re weak and easily manipulated.

    Women are much more creatures of their hind brains, with a lower capacity of metacognition.

    In fact the level of cognitive dissonance between what they say and what they do, vs what they consciously idealize on the surface vs what is clear to their subconscious minds is vast. That’s why men need their own authentic frames.

    That’s why I totally stopped taking social media babble seriously.

  16. kfg

    You remembered that? I think it was one of my earliest posts. More than a year ago.

    Yes, she found a decade old cache of “Pick Up” materials in some backup folder of the computer. Long predated our relationship and she had seen my paperback copy of The Game years before so it wasn’t that big a deal. But she made some comments about how that kind of stuff was rapey and misogynist and she wasn’t comfortable with me reading it and I kind of laughed it off. She used to bring it up as a Fitness Test sometimes for months after that, like if I moved in for a kiss or made a joke she would say “did you read it in one of those books?”.

    But she hasn’t mentioned it in a long time now. I can’t remember the last incident actually.

    Things are pretty decent overall. I think I last posted 1-2 months ago about arranging a weekend away and whisking her on a trip and leading throughout the trip and having a lot of desire sex over the weekend. After that she and I have both been travelling a lot for work and haven’t seen much of each other.

    When we have, the vibe has been pretty decent, but it’s just a constant frame battle all the way. There’s a level of comfort most of the time – it’s not usually the strained atmosphere when you’re fighting or anything like that. But it’s just constant frame battling. Everything from kissing her goodbye when I leave for work and her asking me to come and kiss her goodbye in the kitchen to me telling her to come to the front door and then meeting halfway (compromising probably a mistake in retrospect) to the battles about how much freedom my son should have and how much responsibility he can handle and many many things of that nature. Sometimes I win and sometimes she does.

    It’s no longer completely in her frame, it’s much more evenly balanced, but except for occasional times like the weekend away I took her on, I’m not fully dominating and leading her either.

    I’ve also made quite a bit of progress in taking on more responsibility and stepping up around the house, on improving our financial stability (which was a big source of stress), but she doesn’t know about the financial improvements yet – I want to wait till we’re completely secure, plus I don’t trust her to not come up with some stupid idea to spend the money that she then becomes obsessed with. Continuing to lift. The results have been slow due to injury but she did (again) comment about how my shoulders are getting bigger.

    On the other hand, she’s working more at her part-time gig and bringing in some more money. It used to be negligible, but now it’s up to 10-20% of the monthly budget, which does take some pressure off me, but it means she’s travelling a lot, plus she seems to think that bringing in 20% of monthly expenses – if she has any work at all, because clients are not guaranteed – somehow entitles her to the same deference for her work and accommodation with kids as I get, for taking 100% responsibility for family finances and making sure the mortgage is paid and there’s food on the table (the money she brings in is welcome, but there’s no guarantee it is going to keep coming and she can’t promise it will keep coming, so I have to assume each month I’m covering all of it).

    Anyway, that’s the long version. Basically I think I need to keep working at it. Keep lifting, hopefully build some dread if she sees other girls’ reactions around me (we don’t go out much, she doesn’t have much opportunity to see it). Keep fighting the frame battles. I don’t think I have the frame to completely overpower her frame and get my way – not yet. But at least I won’t give way.

  17. @TheMarquis

    ….She used to bring it up as a Fitness Test sometimes for months after that, like if I moved in for a kiss or made a joke she would say “did you read it in one of those books?”….

    The whole idea of masculinity as something that can be cultivated has the same effect on women as seeing a magician discuss and rehearse his tricks backstage. It is detestable to them. In a way the organic beauty of the trick is lost in the analysis and practice moves. The audience does not have to hear the musician make all the mistakes in his practice room, and if they did they wouldn’t be able to handle 5 minutes of scales and repeated passages.

    My ex somehow once found out I was reading stuff and once told me “It feels like that guy who wrote the book is the one making the moves now. You don’t have any masculinity of your own”. To them it’s like the whole experience lost its organic feel altogether and turned into an instruction manual.

    After that she’d start fighting if she ever found out I was reading anything related to development – even books on fitness and exercise. And I’m from half way around the world, so let no one think any aspect of these behaviours are cultural.

    This is a fascinating topic. @Rollo Tomassi – I want to see an article from you about this. Why women detest the whole idea of “developing masculinity”?

    And yet the irony is that a girl is such a creature of her surrounding conditioning, but won’t admit she’s being influenced by romance novels, porn, movies, actors, sports stars, her parents, and (especially) the opinions and experiences of other girls.

  18. Great post but it misses something. Women want men to be toxic at some level and they foster it. There’s a story about some anthropologists visiting a tribe, seeing male aggression, and documenting it as unprovoked. It took them a while to see that women in the tribe were provoking it by playing “let’s you and him fight” with the tribesmen.

    Male stoicism comes from two things: High T (which inhibits feelings) and having to deal with women’s emotional rollercoasters.

  19. Marquis
    As a married man, what you’re doing is okay. Glad she doesn’t remember(I think she doesn’t want to remember) much of those PUA sheets. Hope you raise your son as a Red Pill father, against the societal norms . Good luck ahead of your future.

  20. Halp

    “I have to be careful with whom I speak and what I say”

    You appear to be doxxing yourself???

  21. Marquis

    “Basically I think I need to keep working at it. Keep lifting, hopefully build some dread if she sees other girls’ reactions around me (we don’t go out much, she doesn’t have much opportunity to see it). Keep fighting the frame battles.”

    You got it. Dread… Dread and more dread. This is going to be the tipping point in the two steps forward one back trench war. Dread and the moment you are indifferent to her outburst over it.

  22. This is where a critical understanding of ev psych is critical.

    Biology doesn’t like. Women may want men to open up etc etc etc….

    There’s a movement now for women to swoon over a sensitive guy….

    But where i live that guy is not Homer Simpson, he’s usually some quiet, manly looking strong silent type… Think the David Beckham archetype— sporty, (former) trophy wife, kids–he checks off all 3 triggers of male to female attraction.

    Suddenly he opens his mouth and starts babbling about how much he misses her—he’s done.

  23. @bolderhead, who was abusive, your mom or dad? I’m guessing your mom. Did you ever confront her about her behavior? I’ve seen a few stories in the past where kids eventually catch their parent’s hand in the act of hitting them and tell them no f#cking more.

  24. Note how at the bottom of every Word Press article that relates to the Red Pill, we get feminist recommendations in the “More on WordPress” section.

    It’s like the creators of Word Press don’t want you to link to other red-pilled writers. You’re supposed to find them on your own through a lengthy analysis in the search engine.

  25. Newly, I can’t remember why she was swinging on me the last time she did. It is clear as a picture she swung ,i caught it in mid swing (this had become an instinctive reaction from street fighting ) looked her in the eye and she could sense my self restraint, that was the last time for physical abuse from that moment on it was only mental.

  26. @boulderhead, I see.

    My family didn’t abuse me, but after learning of the red pill, I realized I had to drastically cut the amount of time I spend around family, friends, co-workers who no longer complemented my new self. I still like them, but I don’t need them any longer.

  27. Here’s an experiment (caveat – these observations US coastal metropolitan university, i.e. the Whole Foods R uS crowd):

    Next time at a neutral public space (e.g. market) consciously perceive the (unconcious) postures of people. With rare exception, will tend to find:

    Mid-aged women broadcast vague annoyance, unhappiness.

    Mid-aged men broadcast defeat, being subdued, cowed, making themselves small – particularly when accompanying a woman – and she leads. These seem in Neo’s state: something is wrong, they feel it – but don’t know what.

    Teen girls (when in gaggles) exude exuberant confident ownership – the freedom to judge.

    Teen boys (often in gaggles) display activities, behaviors, “up-talk” speech pattern (and quantity) identical to the girls, a subtle #2 deference, and seeming contentment. All is well. (Is this simply “cover” or camouflage over something male? How real is the presentation, how deep does it go?)

    Have occasionally wondered if an effect of instantaneous global connectivity is the compression of evolutionary biology and evolutionary psychology. Of course, who knows – but it is fascinating.

  28. “Note how at the bottom of every Word Press article that relates to the Red Pill, we get feminist recommendations in the “More on WordPress” section.”

    Interesting observation, Major.

  29. @Newly

    I believe that some need to divorce their families of origin in order to maintain a healthy sense of self. I will still allow for visitation of them but boundaries are set and when they cross them it is time to go.

  30. It’s when normal boys being boys is suppressed and repressed that they never learn to deal with it properly and act out.

    In public school, any interaction with a hint of conflict becomes an official discipline issue with the administration. Boys don’t learn to fight then deescalate and becomes friends again, because adults are stopping the learning process and imposing severe discipline. Because the boys didn’t act like girls.

    Again boys are treated like dysfunctional girls. When girls have a outright fight with each other it’s nuclear and high stakes. The losing girl can be ejected from her peer group which is like death. So usually their conflicts covert and ongoing, so they don’t get attention from school officials. If they have a real physical fight it’s a real problem.
    Boys get a real fight, get it over with, and move on, sometimes becoming friends. A boy fight is treated like a girl fight, not a learning experience, and isn’t tolerated.

    So you have “boys” not able to learn how to handle conflict properly, and handle it like girls by seething and building up resentment: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-18/florida-school-shooter-romantic-rival-iam-going-fuking-kill-you
    Cruz acted like a girl seething at (alpha looking) Enea Sabadini for over a year after losing a fight that he started. over a girl.

    Thankfully, I’ve got my boys in private school where they get away with more natural competition and can pick on each other a bit, compared with public school.

  31. @ JT

    “Teen boys (often in gaggles) display activities, behaviors, “up-talk” speech pattern (and quantity) identical to the girls, a subtle #2 deference, and seeming contentment. All is well. (Is this simply “cover” or camouflage over something male? How real is the presentation, how deep does it go?)”

    The speech pattern sounds like baby talk with mispronunciation? I get the sense that it is pandering as they tend to lose the inflection when isolated with a masculine man.

    Also it would appear like convenient learned survival behaviour to get along with no effort.

  32. @Rollo: to lay the foundation: I agree with your article’s push-back against feminists and their “allies.”

    You have taken on their definition of vulnerability which is short for emotional vulnerability — how the girl herd keeps the herd a herd: “If you don’t X I won’t be your friend anymore . . .” I disagree with you taking that up.

    Vulnerability is not a weakness. It is a fact. Your skin can be wounded by extreme heat or cold so you protect it with clothing; wearing clothing you can be wounded by a (very close range) 9MM projectile so you don your Kevlar; wearing Kelvar you can be wounded by a vehicle jumping the curb so you don your Iron Man suit; in your Iron Man suit your heart can be wounded by an infarction so you . . .

    Vulnerability is a fact. Men assess risk and find mitigation tactics. Or, if pressed by time, just fucking do it after giving Mr. Murphy the finger.

    Leave the quest for invulnerability to comic books and M. Night Shyamalan movies. Teach boys that cats are not emotional support animals.

  33. “It lies in reimagining how we educate boys and how we see masculinity as a net positive that can deter exactly this kind of emotional outburst.”

    like moving fight club out of the basement as it morphs into project mayhem

    there are many fight clubs all over the world. there always were. now we just know about each other.

    what do we call it when independent cells organically working to achieve the same long range objective converge?

    synchronicity

    critical mass approaching. lots of pent-up energy going to be released = possibility to harness and channel it into something new and productive…

    the rebirth of masculinity in the age of information

    maybe that’s what we’re all doing here… trying to figure out what the new definitions and rules are

    good times

  34. “From a pragmatic point of view, I would suggest that a good way to explain the mechanics behind this to the uninitiated (whether they be sons, other men etc.) is this: Females get to display their vulnerability in an essentially unlimited way with no drain on their SMV (in many cases it may actually be a net positive). Males on the other hand have to EARN their expression of emotional vulnerability. Males and females alike are generally disgusted at the sight of a weak man crying or expressing strong emotions. But when we see a strong man break down it will be subconsciously re-contextualised by most as further evidence of that strength.

    I suspect this is an expression of the handicap principle – if you are really that high value, then you can afford to handicap yourself. The handicapping ITSELF will then be taken as further evidence of your high mate value. I also suspect that this is what male mainstream writers think they are doing when they push the “I’m secure enough to show my vulnerability” meme. They think any display of emotional vulnerability will be given the same context as a hardened veteran breaking down at a remembrance ceremony. Instead, to most people, it will be given the same context as a 15 year old boy crying because he skint his knee.”
    AustralianIrishman
    Gold… Follows the timeline of dealing with trauma…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yfH1ywzprE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X59U4mUqWtw
    http://videos.sapo.mz/EwF1YRCkr9tzfpgLipk1

  35. @Rollo

    “Men tend to prioritize information through a filter of rational discernment first and then sort out how they feel about that information in an emotional context.”

    I absolutely agree with this sentiment, but I think its really step 2 for us with regard to emotions. Feelings (or emotions) are spontaneous for all humans, and are deeply seated in our past experiences and personality. We really don’t control them at all, they just occur. The intentional exercise of control/frame management/MPO all occur in how we choose to react to those spontaneously occurring emotions.

    It is true that for most of my life I have done everything I can (mostly unconsciously) to avoid acknowledging my emotions. However, I still reacted to them, first in thought (how dare she treat me like that) and then in action (shout at her “HOW DARE YOU TREAT ME LIKE THAT?”). Not acknowledging my underlying emotions (anger that she acted inconsiderately toward me.) allowed me to conveniently blame others for my thoughts and actions – the classic “Nice Guy” syndrome.

    This often also played out in less intimate relationships such as in the workplace, when I might make a suggestion in a meeting that was politely dismissed by the group. In reality, I felt inadequate and rejected, but wasn’t aware of that feeling. I was just aware of the thought – how dare they not see how good a solution that was – that led to the action of persisting in pushing my point instead of moving on – “But you guys must not really understand what I’m saying, you just need me to explain it more thoroughly and then you’ll agree with me.”

    Although I never went to the extreme of forcing my point of view on others with a gun, I can see how others with more trauma and abuse in their past would react to this passive-aggressive “Nice Guy” cycle with more extreme “lone gunman” behaviors.

    The key to all of this, IMO, is to first acknowledge that these emotions exist, and that they are, in fact, your emotions (and therefore your responsibility – no one else’s). Once we have come to terms with this basic truth, that is when Rollo’s Step 2 of rational discernment kicks in. I can see why Rollo went right to this distinction between the male and female “modes”, because this is where true masculinity shows itself. At this point we must examine our thoughts with regard to the spontaneously occurring emotions. How AM I feeling? Just because I feel angry, or rejected, or disregarded, by the interaction (which I may well, and they are perfectly appropriate responses to some interactions), it DOESN”T mean that I AM unreasonable, irrelevant or worthless.

    Once I exercise that rational discernment, then I choose how to act. It is at this point that others can now observe objectively the result of my choice. Just because I feel angry doesn’t mean I have to yell, or pout, or storm out of the room, or even be silent and appear non-reactive externally. I am free to chose to do any of those things. What I chose to do is how others will judge me, and rightly so, because it is an indication of my maturity, masculinity, and confidence.

    I now know that my emotions are real, that they occur without my “consent” in a spontaneous manner, and that it is imperative for me to be aware of them, so that I can think carefully about them and chose the best course of action to ensure the optimal outcome for ME.

    I think we need to teach the young men and boys how this process works, so that they are not blind-sided by their emotions when a strong one, such as rejection from a girl they really want to be with, rises up within them and threatens to overwhelm them, leading to catastrophic behavioral choices.

    In order to help our boys become men, I have spent many years of my life volunteering in scouting, most of them as a BP proponent of “well-rounded” boys – not quite the “defective girl” approach, but almost. Since becoming RP aware, and simultaneously taking personal responsibility of my emotions, I have come to see that I should be taking a different, more RP approach to mentoring boys. Just as that realization hit me, the national BSA policies have shifted SIGNIFICANTLY in support of the FI, to the point that I cannot support the mission any longer. I am truly distraught about how and where to provide this desperately needed mentoring to our youth.

  36. boulderhead
    March 15, 2018 at 8:51 pm

    The Maker movement is thriving. And it is often a few old men teaching boys about things. Not just making.

  37. marelius
    March 16, 2018 at 10:01 am

    Your point about emotions being useful signals is an important one. Feeling what she feels is a very good way to get an inside track on interactions. And the more nuanced your detection system the better. “Ah. She is mainly excited but a little disappointed. I need to shift a little until there is only excitement.”

  38. rugby11
    March 16, 2018 at 9:03 am

    JP leaves out of the 60s the whole computer revolution that was an outgrowth of the 60s culture.

    He says “useful and honest” is something missing from the 60s. Well it emerged in the computer geeks of the 70s. And that was when the folks of the 60s turned 30. The usual age (these days) for that transition.

    Just look at a picture from the late 70s of the Microsoft founders. Even Bill Gates was glassy eyed.

  39. “I now know that my emotions are real, that they occur without my “consent” in a spontaneous manner, and that it is imperative for me to be aware of them, so that I can think carefully about them and chose the best course of action to ensure the optimal outcome for ME.”

    let’s accept for the moment the premise that emotions are real and also that they occur without the consent of the operator and then take the example of rejection by a girl a boy really wants to close

    his approach = action

    her rejection = response

    his emotion = reaction

    ounce prevention > pound cure

    proper male education means making boys aware of the fact that female rejections of escalation do not require emotional responses, only, possibly, the physical response of deescalation, because of course no doesn’t always mean no

    “I think we need to teach the young men and boys how this process works, so that they are not blind-sided by their emotions when a strong one, such as rejection from a girl they really want to be with, rises up within them and threatens to overwhelm them, leading to catastrophic behavioral choices.”

    totally. also help them to understand awalt and there is no real reason he wants to be with suzie more than janie because if he is honest with himself he is comfortable with wanting them both. and all the other ones too

    and also that no doesn’t always mean no

    if you were raised in a tribe whose standard practice it was to eat every third baby born, after a period of time, you might not have an emotional reaction to that recurring scenario at all

    but if you visited that tribe for the first time, unprepared, you might fucking flip out at the idea of a juicy cali cheeseburger

  40. Don’t confuse privately acknowledging your mental state with publishing it. Predators find this knowledge useful. Reserve self knowledge for yourself.

  41. @Mabui

    Exactly – no one needs to know what emotion you are sensing, nor what your are thinking about that emotion. I would never recommend to any male that they explain their thoughts or their emotions. That is where the FI concept of “mansplaining” arose from. Rather, I would explain that it is IMPERATIVE for them to understand how they are feeling and what they are thinking about it so that they can be fully informed BEFORE choosing the resulting action, which can be observed by everyone, and WILL be judged by them as well. Only in this manner can one ever be fully responsible and in control of one’s behavior.

    As we all know, once you chose your action as a consequence of that emotion->thought pattern, that is observable and objective. You cannot deny your action, because others can witness and document it. You must understand that the action is entirely your responsibility

  42. Yea… but let’s also ban the guns… just to be safe… since, you know, feminists are not going anywhere anytime soon

    Besides, shootings don’t happen only at schools and shooting drills, bulletproof windows, arming teachers, and putting police men at schools are no solution.

  43. First Facebook post top of the page reminds me something I wrote in my diary back in my early teenage years.

    When I was 15 , I use to masturbate a lot. I suffered from headache, dizziness and couldn’t concentrate on my study so well. So I wrote in my diary this paragraph to remind me the pain for jerking off too much before I try to rub my penis again.

    Please don’t do this. It harms. It shrinks your mental capability, leads you all the way to misery.[From my personal diary 20/05/2014]

    Well I tolerated this for may be 2 days but then, I had to write another paragraph to allow my addiction. I wrote this beneath the previous paragraph.

    No. It depends upon your confidence. It’s a very natural way to relief sexual anxiety. Pain is natural too, it will go off after 12 hours from your jerking. [Collected from my diary; 23/05/2014]

  44. 1300 deaths daily, should we ban tobacco.

    “Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day. On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.”

  45. Motor vehicles have been racking up a pretty good homicide score and even greater manslaughter score, not to mention the accident risk to children, so I won’t mention it.

  46. manhood is an abstract – it is both the language and the document on which it’s written

    with all the old lies gone, what makes a man’s constitution going forward?

    mpo is your constitution – it should be rooted solidy in properly tested theory and be pretty fucking hard to change, but not impossible

    when shit gets crazy and you’re faced with massive new inputs/stimulus, simply refer to the document you wrote on your core and unless there is overwhelmingly compelling evidence to change, you don’t deviate

    1. learn language of manhood – question everything but respect your elders
    2. write your constitution – it governs your prinicpality and will be vigorously tested
    3. execute the living document – respect your own rules
    4. amend as appropriate – always be willing to entertain an idea
    5. never waiver – though you will constantly change

  47. Masculinity built civilization. Every time you take a shit and press a lever and your shit magically disappears and you don’t have to deal with it, every time you clean your ass on toilet paper that magically made it from the forest to your now sparkling clean butt, thank a MAN for these and the innumerable other benefits of civilization.
    Women complain about masculinity from within the four walls of the world that men built for them. Let’s see how well you would really fare without us you incompetent, spoiled, entitled, overprivileged brats.

  48. The lie is more insidious than “masculinity is toxic”. The current narrative is that masculinity doesn’t even exist. That all boys are really just girls inside, but they’re pretending to be masculine because they’re petrified that other boys will make fun of them and call them gay. Therefore, any time a boy is physically active, aggressive, competitive, or has a sexual urge, he must have learned that from his terrible father or the media, because everybody knows that masculinity isn’t real and is just something cowardly guys pretend at to save face with other cowardly guys.

    Masculinity saves lives. You never hear about the captain of the football team snapping and shooting up the school. You hear about him getting scholarships and getting laid by cheerleaders and elected prom king. It’s the non-masculine boys that shoot up the place.

  49. I just finished watching the movie “Blood Money”. From a RP perspective, I could see all that the female villain was doing and laughed at the idiots who weren’t treating her intelligently. She should have been slapped and kicked by Cusack’s character when she was being mouthy and just to make sure she is submissive. Also, always sit with your back to the wall.

  50. @mersonia

    “It’s like the third time I fuck any female I’m ready to move on to the next and never want to see her again…….”

    stop fucking fatties

  51. “She should have been slapped . . . ”

    . . . and sent to her room until she was ready to behave herself.

    How Gone the Wind should have ended, about 5 pages/minutes in.

  52. ” Let’s see how well you would really fare without us you incompetent, spoiled, entitled, overprivileged brats.”

  53. The only toxic masculinity is the absence of masculinity.

    That original tweeter, if that’s what that is, would have been greatly assisted in life by a good punch in the face. You can tell that he’s never had one.

  54. Koepcke is an interesting case. Tough girl, but she was the child of two zoologists and had been taught some important emergency survival skills, by her father, which saved her life a few times along the way.

    Not too many girls would know to pour gasoline on their maggot infested flesh.

  55. kfg
    March 16, 2018 at 6:39 pm

    Not too many girls know how to do anything. That is why there is always a “honey do” list.

    But you can teach them – some. The LTR still doesn’t understand how a gas engine works. But she could change the oil if she had to. And gap the plugs.

  56. So i’ve been looking into teaching rugby to get away from old habits and embrace responsibility. Apparently back in college a roommate who was soon to be a cop made a prank or assumed i did retail theft and trespassing… This is weird because no one ever told me about it since it happened untill i got a letter today. Which will be interesting to speak about and call him about… “dismissed without prejudice”

    I am not sure how to describe how much i appreciate learning from everyone here…

  57. To continue an older discussion from the Weinstein/MeToo discussions we were having – I find it interesting that Trump is the first person to actually go after Stormy Daniels in court for breach of her confidentiality agreement, even though a bunch of women breached confidentiality agreements with Weinstein for their payoffs (Rose McGowan springs to mind, but I don’t think she’s the only one – I think there may have been other men with NDAs too, who paid off accusers).

    The reason Weinstein’s not gone after McGowan et al is not because he has a bad case but because he doesn’t want the PR blowback from going after a poor, defenceless woman who is reporting sexual assault and standing up to the big, rich business leader with all the power. The women know this of course (or rather they know this dynamic and they know the chance of being pursued in court for breaching their NDA is low) which is why they take the risk of doing it.

    But Trump doesn’t give a shit how it looks – he’s going after her anyway (I have not followed this episode very closely – I try to avoid this kind of media saturation – but my understanding is that there is no accusation of sexual assault here – they just had an affair by her own account).

    This feeds back to the discussions we were having back then about how the best course of action for someone in a MeToo situation is to brazen it through, not because people will applaud you for it but becaus ethere is no upside to apologizing – you get no credit for it, and may even look like you’re admitting guilt..

  58. @TheMarquis,

    It would be wise to keep your standard of living modest and to stash cash that no one knows about. If you can, encourage her to make more money.

    The constant frame battle is going to start to wear thin on you. You may eventually develop a ZFG attitude. And that could either greatly improve things or it might eventually lead to divorce.

    @JT McMahon,

    I’ve made similar observations. In particular, the middle aged dude being led around by his wife, slump shouldered and beat down looking. And the teenage girls acting on top of the world, loud and boisterous. And hey, why shouldn’t they? They are at peak SMV, everyone wants to kiss their asses, they can literally do whatever they want, with zero or minimal consequences. It’s awesome to be them!

  59. @TheMarquis,

    And, if “traveling a lot” = overnight stays… don’t forget about the true nature of women…

  60. Ps the bit about Meghan Kelly is exactly what you are shooting for. Reflexive response.

  61. Rollo Tomassi
    March 17, 2018 at 7:46 am
    “This is exactly what I was referring to about the differences between how boys and girls are raised this week”

    Wonder if may be linked to the nature of the woman, peruse these curves and in any parameter the women are much tighter with less variability than men:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=women%27s+versus+men%27s+intelligence+curves&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS745US745&hl=en-US&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8rvr30fPZAhVP-mMKHcNSBQsQ_AUIEigC&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=qdnaZHJkGHMYqM:

    For some reason in woman evo-bio has produced relative conformity; no stretch to suspect evo-psych would produce less variability in thought. May well be in the female brain there is a selection bias for same-ness; intolerance of difference.

    In a female-predominant educational system this may manifest as – well, exactly what the data suggests: A systematic preference for girls; lesser preference for feminine-behaving boys; extermination of boy-boys.

    Interpersonally it manifests as an incessant need for controlling the behavior of others. Learned a lesson and will no longer fly with a woman in the cockpit, even if she is an experienced pilot. They will not shut up; and they try to micromanage how you fly to a degree it is a distraction, compromising safety. (May be why it’s called a “COCKpit.”)

  62. @IH – thank you, that had occurred to me before. Yes, lots of overnight trips, anywhere from several days to a week or two. all over the country (but there are two cities she goes to 80% of the time) so plenty of opportunities to play away if that’s what’s happening.

    I have no specific reason to suspect anything is going on – only that she has plenty of opportunities.

    As far as I can tell, unless I have a reason to be actively suspicious, my game plan doesn’t change – the marriage has flaws but as of now I still want it to succeed and I’m willing to do the work necessary. Or rather I’m working to improve myself and the marriage succeeding will be a side effect of that. So I’m just going to go ahead and do that and see how we go.

    But yeah, she talks about the men (and women) she’s met for work and new business opportunities and all the exciting stuff she’s doing etc (and I’m keeping my exciting stuff under wraps for the reasons I mentioned earlier so I have much less to talk about except the boring day-to-day stuff).

    There is one particular married guy who she made friends with early on at some work conference, and since then he’s been instrumental in putting a lot of clients her way and they spend a fair amount of time together when she’s in that city..she calls him a “dear friend” and I remember her saying something a few months ago about how she met him in her hotel room for a chat about some work stuff and while she was sitting there she thought something about “how this might look awkward if he wasn’t such a dear friend” or similar. Also, come to think of it, there’s been another single guy recently who invited her to his estate (yes, very rich) for breakfast and she went and discussed business opportunities with him too..

    So yeah, if I wanted to be suspicious I guess I could be. But she told me all these things herself and my gut feeling says nothing’s going on. And the first married guy is someone I’ve met myself when we did a family trip to the other city a few months ago, and had dinner at his house and met his wife and kids etc.

    But even if something IS going on – unless I have solid evidence – my game plan doesn’t change as far as I can tell.

  63. “Name a female invention.”

    One that they actually like to brag about is packaging white paint in a quarter ounce bottle and selling it to secretaries for full quart prices.

    Asking them who invented white paint makes their heads hurt, because they don’t know it’s white paint, even while they’re using it to paint something white.

    And of course men have made it obsolete anyway.

  64. @TheMarquis

    Do you have any female admirers at work/outside of work who genuinely respect you? (Meaning your competencies, not nec. your attractiveness)

    If not, build some post haste.

  65. @Ajax Parallax – the odd one, yes, but not much, mainly because work is so male dominated.

    I mentioned in previous posts, but not recently that I’ve used Tinder and played away myself when on business trips, so I know women like me. I’ve also had a couple of the wife’s friends show a lot of interest in me, as well as other women from a non-work social circle, but the way our social lives work (both of us travelling, plus we both have separate social circles in addition to a joint one) the wife really doesn’t have much opportunity to see any of this (unless she noticed her friends’ interest in me, but that was pretty subtle plus I don’t think it even enters my wife’s mind that her friends could be interested in me).

    Although there have been a few Dread instances – once a couple of years ago, a female work colleague of mine came for a party at my house with her husband and the wife nearly created a scene at the end of the night after everyone left saying that woman had been flirting with me all evening and getting angry etc.

    But there’s just not many opportunities for things like that.

  66. @TheMarquis

    “and the wife nearly created a scene at the end of the night after everyone left saying that woman had been flirting with me all evening and getting angry…”

    That’s a good type of angry. It’s when she feels comfortable hanging out with other men alone without bothering to wonder what you’re doing with whom that you need to poke her with some dread.

    My woman inviting her “dear male friend” to her hotel room for a ‘meeting’ is a dealbreaker according to my Boundary Violation Monitor. Yours may be set at higher tolerances.

    My (deadpan non-butthurt) response: “Was there something preventing you two from meeting at the hotel bar or over breakfast?”

  67. Marquis….

    Sorry man all the stuff about your wife working are yellow flags at a minimum.

    Don’t be fooled by female “honesty”… They tell you stuff based on hindbrain impulses but in cat language. Not their fault if you don’t know catonese… But after the fallout when the dust is clearing she can say with honesty she mentioned so and so etc. Remember this is all hindbrain chatter to her too. So her forebrain probably believes it. For now. Until you know it just happens.

    You are playing with fire if she is attractive. That 10 to 20% income ain’t worth it. Often what she is saying is also a cry for you to make her stop doing it.

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkev1Lwl_opFmeurimkHUblX4NACpjSMzu7oQgObB1oVWdJcrZ

  68. Marquis
    …and I remember her saying something a few months ago about how she met him in her hotel room for a chat about some work stuff and while she was sitting there she thought something about “how this might look awkward if he wasn’t such a dear friend” or similar.

    😂😂😂My God! You are too soft to not being cheated. Feminine imperative took your all gut checks away😂😂😂 … I would have ghosted my wife for a month if she did that. My friends and I’ve read this comment and laughing our asses off ,Its hilarious.
    Welcome to the “Take it easy” cuckoldry … And your assessments about your wife making us suspicious that you’re unable to gut check your wife’s red flag.

  69. Marquis
    And stop explaining. Demonstrate. Rollo has to explain because we need to digest. You just take what you need and implement. All the guys just keep explaining feel like its a nerdy environment.

  70. @TheMarquis

    Meant to add, as Sentient referenced, a woman will usually leak out bits of premeditated overt *honesty* as a subtle shit-test. Often, they aren’t even aware of exactly why they are doing it (but, believe me, their female mate optimization firmware knows).

    If she actually used the word *awkward*, then, dammit, this honest girl knew she was about to engage in disrespectful behavior (and went ahead with it anyway).

    Hypergamy is like an opportunistic dog. If you don’t quick-snap the leash on it’s neck when it sees an opportunity, it will test and test your tolerance boundary until it has free reign to run, shit in the neighbor’s yard, eat your neighbors; cats and otherwise create mayhem.

  71. Marquis

    Watch Fight Club. Quit exercise. Spend free times with Bike Racers Club or some people whose profession is dangerous. Do what you want. Having some time off your LTR was the best, but thats your wife. I have recently joined a Karate Club (We have no Bike Racers Club or similar), Be practical . This place is purely theoretical. I come here to do some mischief. That doesn’t mean I don’t know Red Pill. I come here to shake off the nerds. Guys, third world war would be purely Red Pill Masculine males Vs Blue Pill Feminine World. No other way out. We need a Project Mayhem

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