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To start off today’s topic I thought I’d repost a Red Pill reddit thread I received a link-back to last week. Rather than give you my own summary of this guy’s situation, I felt the impact would be more significant by posting it in its entirety; and also because I don’t believe the guy really got a fair hearing on his original post.

I posted this earlier on another subreddit but it ended up getting removed because of fighting in the comments. I’ll sum up what happened thus far. I met my wife 7 years ago, she was extremely picky when it came to sex. She told me she only has been with 1 other guy before. She would never give a blow job, only would do certain positions and found almost every sex act degrading. I was frustrated by this, but I really liked her and hoped over the years she would open up sexually. Over the years, it never got any better but I learned to get over it. Well I ended up finding an old video from her college days of her engaging in group sex with 6 other people 5 guys 1 girl. In the video she has anal sex, oral sex, gets double teamed, and yells multiple times in the video she is a “I am a filthy whore.” All of it she was enthusiastic about it. I ended up feeling really sad. I can understand certain stuff people don’t want to do, but it wasn’t the fact she didn’t want to do them. She didn’t want to do them with me but every other guy she was their whore. I was angry hurt and I ended up saying some stupid shit to my wife.

I asked her if she could drop our daughter off at her sister’s house because I wanted to talk to her. She asked why, I told her we’d discuss after she came back.

I don’t remember all the details of the conversation, so I’ll try my best to sum it up. I was drinking a bit before she came which wasn’t the best idea.

Me: Is there anything about your past you have been hiding about me?

Her: Why are we talking about this?

Me: I just want to know were you in any type of porn or anything like that?

Her: are you taking drugs?

Me: I found your video from college with the other guys. I don’t know who you are anymore and I feel ill being around you.

She starts crying.

Me: Do you have anything to say?

She continues to cry. This was pointless I go to grab my keys to leave. And she tries to stop me.

Me: If you don’t want me to leave then I need you to be 100% honest with me, and tell me why you lied to me for all these years.

She: I didn’t want you to think I was a slut

Me: I would have been perfectly fine if you told me, I would have loved to have done those wild things with you. Look I get it I don’t turn you on like those other guys do. You liked sucking their dicks but not mine.

She: It’s not that, I didn’t want you to think less of me.

Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.

She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.

Me: I don’t want you to do it because you feel like you have to. I want someone that actually desires me.

She: I can change I promise don’t ruin our marriage over this we can work things out. We can go to marriage counseling seriously talk to me.

Me: Marriage counseling won’t change how you feel about me. Look I will try marriage counseling but I want a trial separation for now.

She: Please don’t do this. Don’t throw away our marriage for what I did in college please.

Me: Stop fucking acting like it’s a one time thing. Be honest with me how many guys did you fuck before me. How many guys dicks have you sucked, and how many guys have you let fuck you in the ass.

She: why does it matter, I said I’ll do them with you

Me: I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.

She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change.

Me: I am not divorcing you but I want a trial separation for now, and I want to see how things go, right now I feel sick looking at you.

I ended up leaving my wife kept trying to stop me. She kept on begging saying I could do anything I wanted with her, it was truly pathetic and I lost all respect for my wife the way she was trying to manipulate me with sex.

I am staying at a motel right now; I have been getting constant calls from my wife. She has been asking me where I am, if I tell her than she is going to confront me and I don’t feel like I am ready for that. I feel so fucking drained. I feel bad saying those things to my wife but I don’t know what else to do I am so fucking hurt over this.

As I said before I wouldn’t care if she had a promiscuous past, seriously, wouldn’t care but the fact she did all those things for other guys but doesn’t do them for me hurts me the deepest.

I don’t see how this marriage can be recovered. I can’t change her attraction to me. My father has recently has been diagnosed with a tumor in his lung, and that has already been stressing me out pretty badly.

Please tell me what exactly I can do, my confidence as a man has been destroyed. Before I found out about this, I tried to get my wife to open up sexually but she completely shot it down. I really believe she isn’t attracted to me in the way she was to those other guys. That’s why she felt completely fine being “their whore” but won’t give me a blow job. I want a woman that looks at me lustfully, not that has sex with me to fulfill “wifey duties.”

I don’t feel entitled to other types of sex with my wife. I want her to want to do them. Now even if she does do them it will be out of guilt, not out of desire. I don’t see how we can recover our marriage. I feel really shitty that I won’t be able to seem my daughter as much, especially during her younger years.

I have already made some calls to reroute my paychecks and get my finances in order if we do go for a divorce. My brother works at a big law firm, I am thinking about contacting him to at least see what I should be doing now. Thing is once I call him it becomes the point of no return, if I tell my family members than their image of my wife becomes destroyed. Also I’d have to check because right now she is dependent on me for health insurance, and I don’t want her to be deprived of that if we do divorce, because she has been having health issues. I don’t want to ruin anything but I can’t see how things would ever be okay. If you don’t have any advice for me and are just going to be judgmental please don’t waste your time commenting. I know I said some hurtful things in there but you don’t know the level of hurt I am feeling right now. I have apologized to my wife since then, but I don’t see how our relationship can be recovered.

Edit – I want to make things work, between me and my wife. I understand she doesn’t want to do certain sex acts. I am considering proposing to her the idea of an open marriage. That way we can still be together as a family and we both can have the fulfilling sex lives we want.

There’s a lot going on in this situation, but I think the first thing that should be addressed here is that, personally, I think these sorts of past life revelations are a lot more common than most men are comfortable in admitting. I wish I could say this was the first time I’ve ever encountered a story like his — it’s actually the 7th time, and four of those were personal accounts from men I’ve counseled.

As our culture becomes more technologically adept, electronic records – whether they’re ‘self-shots’, incriminating GNO pics uploaded to various forms of social media, male-stripper party videos, or amateur / semi-pro pornography – will have an increasingly greater role in filling the pieces of the puzzle that constitutes a woman’s relational and sexual past. The real problem will cease to be doing any actual detective work, and more about what a (Beta) man will allow himself to believe about his ‘special snowflake’ in contrast to the gestalt knowledge of women’s behaviors on whole.

There was a recent article posted on Return of Kings by Emmanuel Goldstein detailing the Game necessity of presuming all women are sluts. In light of stories like this it’s hard not to see the pragmatism in that, but at least when you are single, Game-aware and spinning plates you have the luxury and (should have) the foresight to know that even the Good Girls ‘Do’ have the inclination to go feral with the hot Alpha in the foam cannon party in Cancun on Spring Break when she’s in the proliferative phase of her ovulatory cycle.

Predictably, I’m sure the “ooh, ooh men do it too!” wing of the critics gallery will be the first to cry foul, as they ever have, about my drawing attention to the feral dynamics of sexual side of feminine hypergamy. And were it only about one side of women’s pluralistic sexual strategy (Alpha Fucks & Beta Bucks) they might have a point, but it’s the other half of the Hypergamic equation, the part that requires long term male provisioning paired with emotional investment that sets men’s short term sexual appetites apart from women’s short term Hypergamy.

The Best of Her

The author of this reddit thread is feeling the sharp end of that Hypergamic equation. While I’m sure there will be every effort made to paint this man’s wife as some fucked up, emotionally damaged, and conveniently, sexually abused victim (we don’t know this, but that was the default association in the comments of his original thread), the operative I’m driving at here isn’t about her individualized experiences, but the methodology she and all women use to justify their sexual pluralism.

Prior to the advent of technologies that could evidentially prove women’s sexual exploits (often proudly so now) the more visceral aspects of a woman’s sexuality, and the inconvenient hindbrain/hormonal prompts that motivate them, could be kept secret well enough to deceive a man with provisioning potential to commit to the long term security the other half of her Hypergamy demands. As the technology to record this becomes more ubiquitous, more permanent and fluid in its use, as men become more interconnected by it, and as women enjoy more self-affirmation from it, rationalizing her past indiscretions becomes more of an imperative.

Men saturated and conditioned over the better half of their lifetime by the feminine imperative to be the convenient cuckolds to women’s Hypergamy – men like the author of this confession – have an ego-invested interest in presuming the woman they pair with will be “giving him the best of herself” once his ship comes in and all of his patience and equalist beliefs finally pay off.

Only, men like this discover too late, usually well after they realize their commitment has hamstrung their SMV peak potential, that not only have they been a retroactive cuckold (sometimes even moralistically proud to be so), but they’ve been socially conditioned to be one, by their mothers, their emasculated fathers, their sisters, female friends, teachers and the whole of the feminine imperative’s effort for most of their lives.

One of the reasons I, and most of the manosphere, receive so much scorn from plugged-in, feminine primary society is that we risk to expose this process. This author’s story is the inconvenient truth of a pluralistic feminine sexual strategy. Women’s capacity to cash out of the SMP, to raise children, to create a semblance of a family life so conflicted with her single life, on what she thinks should be her terms, all rides on keeping men with a long term provisioning potential (greater Betas) ignorant of their pre-cuckolding and the conditioning that took so long to convince them would be their responsibility.

I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.

The primary reason men become preoccupied with women’s sexual past is rooted in ‘getting the best’ she has to offer him sexually. There is certainly more aspects to this (fidelity, secure attachment, etc.), but as I’ve stated before, all men want a slut, they just want her to be HIS slut. Once the belief that he’s getting the best sex she has to offer him is dispelled, viscerally and definitively, the nature of the Desire Dynamic comes into sharp focus.

I Want You to Want Me

Naturally, once a woman’s true sexual capacity is revealed after the establishment of her normalized, married sexuality, her first impetus is to preserve the provisioning she enjoyed while ‘her secret’ was working for her.

Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.

She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.

[…] She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change

What we’re reading here is the script for negotiated desire. Her real desire isn’t for his satisfaction or any real resolution for the deception of her sexual pluralism, but rather a solipsistic maintaining of a normalcy for herself. Our author has no other rationalizations to fall back on, denial of his conditions are no longer sufficient, and he begins to realize a cruel red pill truth – you cannot negotiate genuine desire.

He wants her to want him, he wants her to desire sex with him with the same verve and enthusiasm she did with other men in her videos. He wants her sexual best, but her 7 years of unwillingness to give him that while enjoying the benefits of his provisioning, his patience, love and perseverance only puts her strategy, the Hypergamic strategy, into perfect focus. Her genuine desire, her sexual best was never intended for him in the first place.

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YOHAMI
Guest

“She starts crying.”

Classic. She’s never been married with him. Plus she’s likely to have been cheating.

Nothing to work out here.

The Latin Buddha
Guest

Whoa. This post gave me chills. I’m not surprised but as I was reading this dude’s retorts, I started feeling it like it was me that this was happening to.

It’s nothing Rollo hasn’t covered before but this is a great case study on the essence of intergender dynamics: desire, hypergamy and the dire necessity for men to be Game-aware.

nipnup
Guest
nipnup

The only thing that baffles me about the whole thing: why marry her in the first place if she (claimed she) didn’t enjoy screwing his brains out [1]???

I’ll take no sex over lousy sex, thank you very much

[1] We shall leave the question of why any sane man should get married at all aside for this one.

donalgraeme
Guest

Thanks for providing this Rollo. The primary reason men become preoccupied with women’s sexual past is rooted in ‘getting the best’ she has to offer him sexually. There is certainly more aspects to this (fidelity, secure attachment, etc.), but as I’ve stated before, all men want a slut, they just want her to be HIS slut. Yes, especially in marriage. If we have to give our all, we damned well expect the same from her. This woman wasn’t giving her husband her all. I am inclined to agree with Yohami that this can’t be worked out, because I don’t think… Read more »

ar10308
Guest

Saw this post when it was snapshotted to RPReddit. Such a thing is scary to read, even when you know it won’t be you. It is like watching a version of yourself being tortured and all you can do is look on.

The replies from the non-RP redditors were utterly sickening.

Such threads and corresponding advice givers make me seriously wonder why more men do not lash out in violence as a result of anger.

mindstar
Guest
mindstar

“…her 7 years of unwillingness to give him that ” That is the crux of the issue. He is faced with clear evidence of her utter lack of desire for him. Had she been genuinely attracted to him she would have certainly engaged in the activities she had previously enjoyed with multiple partners

swiftfoxmark2
Guest

Such a sad story. It is obvious that she never loved him, only desired his stability. Men have always judged how much a woman loves him by the quality of sex they receive. Sure there are other things, but that is the primary thing for men. This is why in a patriarchal society, virgins were prized. Unfortunately my advice is to not divorce nor engage in an open marriage, but to work things out as best as he can. Yes, she dealt him a crap hand, but they are married now. That is, unless she has cheated on him. In… Read more »

darkpenguin350
Guest

The fact that the guy is still able to even consider taking her back is what blows me away. Personally I’d have her executed for that deception…

sal ceech
Guest
sal ceech

..know when to walk away, know when to run , know when to ( Usain ) Bolt.

Marky Mark
Guest
Marky Mark

I guarantee she cheated… no way she can have those experiences when she is young and just randomly stop when she is older… she is still a woman with needs and desires. He should just move to Eastern Europe and wire all his money there.

The Latin Buddha
Guest

@swiftfoxmark2

There is no sense in living in misery and kicking the can down the road…. forever. That’s mediocre living. If you have a house with mold in the foundation, there’s no sense in trying to repair it. It will keep coming back or crumble on top of you. He must walk away for his sanity and long term well being.

thegreatshebang
Guest
thegreatshebang

Thank you very much for this post, Rollo. Over the years, I’ve upped my Game, upped my SMP, tried to kill the beta, etc. etc. I’m just tired of it all a bit, it’s just a constant grind to get another girl, find out she’s not capable of a deeper connection, then grind to get another girl and repeat and meanwhile spin plates with girls I don’t are much for. It’s kinda dull so I mix it up to not get bored. Maybe I should add even more Alpha and more Game but the women don’t seem worth the extra… Read more »

swiftfoxmark2
Guest

@The Latin Buddha How do you know that he will be miserable for the rest of his life if he stays with her? Right now, he’s confused, hurt, and pissed off. But he has an opportunity to make things better for both himself, his wife, and his daughter. It won’t be easy and it won’t fun, but it can happen. I’m not saying he should “man-up” like the white knights do, but I am saying that while his life really sucks right now, with a dying father and prudish whore for a wife, that there are things he can improve… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest

“How do you know that he will be miserable for the rest of his life if he stays with her?” Really? “it is weird how his wife kept the video tape.” For starters. Its worse though. When he confronted her about the porn her immediate reaction was denial / deflect. When confronted with evidence, her first reaction was crying. When he tried to leave, her first reaction was to stop him. 1) She lies to his face 2) When put in evidence, she resorts to emotional manipulation 3) When he tries to get out of the manipulation, she wants to… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

One reason, and one reason only, to try and save it. They have a kid together (which kid that man should DNA/paternity test, and that right soon). Agree with all the comments. She’s not attracted to him. She never was and probably never will be. We don’t know she cheated (though she probably did). He should get to the bottom of that too (and that right soon). That man should immediately comb the cell phone bill and start grilling her on numbers he doesn’t recognize. He should put a keylogger on the computer, a GPS on her car and a… Read more »

Cautiously Pessimistic
Guest
Cautiously Pessimistic

That post gave me PTSD chills. Fortunately, I haven’t experienced that kind of betrayal in marriage, but I have experienced it. Based only on the info he gave (ie: assuming she hasn’t been cheating on him, which is not a good assumption to make) my advice to him would be that IF he wants to try to save the marriage, he cannot have the marriage he wanted, nor can he have the relationship with his wife that he wanted. He will have to fundamentally change his expectations of her and the marriage. He will be stuck acting like (in his… Read more »

Tin Man
Guest

@swiftfoxmark2 It’s not strange, I would say it’s typical. Woman are collectors/horders by nature – how many do you know that still have “love letters” from their youth? She kept, end of story. As far as him staying married…it could work, there’s no reason to believe it couldn’t. If nothing else, Men are a strong lot and can endure very terrible things – including what this Man went through. Also, the fact that he found the RP Reddit means he may find some other resources – he may learn, he may integrate, he may just cross over the chasm from… Read more »

The Latin Buddha
Guest

@swiftfoxmark2

In your opinion, what does “success” look like at that point? The issue is so systemic that it really boils down to her not wanting him but wanting his provision. How do you “learn” to “want” someone? You either want to fuck the shit out of your partner or you don’t. That’s desire.

Their daughter will be better off with each of them hopefully becoming better people on their own rather than being miserable together.

YaReally
Guest

lol it’s mind-boggling how many guys will read this and then think “but the girl I’LL get will be SPECIAL, she won’t have done anything sexual!! YaReally just gets bar sluts, not like the girls *I* get!” because of their madonna/whore complex. If you give off any kind of judgemental vibe, or even don’t give one off but don’t actively give off a NON-judgemental vibe, she’ll simply hide her history from you…ESPECIALLY if she sees you as potential long-term relationship material. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I would rather come off non-judgemental and encourage her to… Read more »

Singl4life
Guest
Singl4life

This is a real life nightmare. I’m pretty sure I’d kill her. My failed 5 year marriage had similar issues but no where near that degree. I remember how it felt just knowing what little I did. If I found a video like that… Yeah murder, suicide, or both would’ve been on the dinner menu. These kinds of things are what have kept me firmly distanced from women for awhile now. I still have that raw sexual desire for them but it’s been overwhelmingly trumped by my revulsion for the things they do. I’ve been alpha before… I know I… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

aaaaaaand the female commentariat is strangely silent. The only difference between this man’s wife and pretty much most other women in today’s SMP is that there’s videotape evidence of this woman’s past sluttery. What’s worse, this videotape is just what this man happened to stumble across. Almost certainly, it’s just the tip of the iceberg. What more has she done in her past that isn’t memorialized on film or in writing? What more did she do that she either (1) doesn’t remember or (2) won’t cop to? And don’t give me the “oooooh, men do it too” bullshit. She’d get… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

And as far as what he SHOULD do, if he wants to stay in the marriage which he should ’cause he’s got a kid and divorce rape sucks and all, is absorb everything on Married Man Sex Life and follow the Map thing to make himself more attractive on there. He will never ever ever ever ever logically convince his wife to be attracted to him, that’s just not how it works…but he COULD theoretically improve himself and down the road in year or two he may be able to start triggering her hypergamy and legitimately attract her…it’s an uphill… Read more »

Tin Man
Guest

BTW, personally, I think he should leave. Not a coward’s cut-n-run thing, but he states it several times – that he just doesn’t know if he get past it. If he can, then it could work (with a significant shift in HIS thinking – and regardless to how she reacts). But, from my experience, she won’t allow the dynamic to change in the long run, and will probably just decided to find the next provider while he stays around to support her. Better to be proactive, nuke her now, potentially he can keep his daughter and be the custodial parent.… Read more »

Jack Schitz
Guest
Jack Schitz

Here’s a thought. He walks in and sits her down and tells here that their marriage is going to be completely run by him and by his rules from now on (e.g., his out of marriage relationships OK, her’s not), if not, or she fucks up, the video goes on the internet. If she files for divorce, the video goes on the internet. If she complains too much, the video goes on the internet. Basically this guy now owns this cunt, and if not, you guessed it, THE VIDEO GOES ON THE INTERNET.

YaReally
Guest

@deti “What’s a man going to do to determine if his woman is/was a slut? Ask her? What’s he going to do to determine her N? Ask her? Don’t ever expect an honest answer to such questions” Ask them without judgement, and they’ll tend to be pretty honest. This is pretty much impossible for a lot of men though, ’cause of the madonna/whore complex most guys have. Her female BFF and gay BFF know things about her that her boyfriend doesn’t know…why? They won’t judge her. The only person less judgemental than her BFF is a guy who’s super comfortable… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

Cautiously:

+1. The only way this marriage can be saved is for him to hone his full on asshole game and run it. His marriage will never be the same after this, and he’ll never have the marriage he wanted. That ship has sailed and it’s never coming back. If and when he has grounds for divorce, if and when he discovers any cheating, he should IMMEDIATELY end the marriage.

The Latin Buddha
Guest

@Tin Man and @YaReally Let’s say he does all that work and he successfully shifts his thinking and all. Can you imagine the first time he would have sex with her again? He’d have to be a psychological mural to not let thoughts of disgust or doubt creep in, or wonder if she’s genuinely having sex with him out of desire or out of duty (not that you couldn’t tell… which is worse if it were out of duty…. AGAIN). I don’t know. It seems like a tall order. Even if she were attracted to him after he shifted his… Read more »

Random Angeleno
Guest
Random Angeleno

Poor guy. He needs a DNA test now for their child. And walk away, burn the earth behind him if it’s not his. Move out, move away, get lost, let her family, her friends, her job know about the tape and the kid’s paternity. Yes it will get back to his family too, but what other choice does he have if the child’s not his? If it is his then, the obligation is on him to support. To do that properly, he may have to reconcile with his wife, given that family court may take that kid away from him.… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

As f-ed up as it sounds, if he had slapped her during that conversation, he might have started the tinglings of the attraction that he never aroused in her before, and gotten himself thrown in jail in the process. Christ what a fucked up world this is. To me the take-away for the women is… N count matters less than our belief that you can be *OUR* slut when committed to us. However, the greater the N, the more obvious it is that you’ll do those things with anybody. The negotiated desire was obvious on the first reading of his… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

The women remain silent.

I’m waiting.

Waiting for any woman to come here and express outrage, disgust, judgment.

But I hear none.

Not a peep. Not one.

Stingray
Guest

This was posted over at the Market Ticker forums last week, linked from ROK. I shouldn’t have been, but I was surprised at the number of men who were trying to shame this guy (not that he was there to read it). Many said how he should just let it go. The past is in the past. That lots of people do stuff like this, etc, etc.

There were a couple of obviously red-pill guys there, I was glad to see, but most people were jumping to the woman’s defense.

YaReally
Guest

@Latin Buddha “I don’t know. It seems like a tall order. Even if she were attracted to him after he shifted his thinking, I would imagine the last person you’d want to invest all that hard work and results on was the girl who didn’t initially truly want you.” Oh I agree. I don’t think he can salvage things. But his options are basically 1) leave, and lose half his shit and possibly custody of his kid (who may or may not be his kid) in divorce (and have to pay child support without getting to even see his kid),… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

@swiftfoxmark2

How do you know that he will be miserable for the rest of his life if he stays with her?

Because she was never attracted to him in the first place. She’s outright lying when she says she is attracted to him, baldfaced, plain, deception. If a woman is genuinely attracted to you, all manner of physical pleasure is opened up, period. She’s saying that because she doesn’t want to lose the stable family life she has now, the provisioning and protection.

YaReally
Guest

@Stingray “I was surprised at the number of men who were trying to shame this guy (not that he was there to read it). Many said how he should just let it go. The past is in the past. That lots of people do stuff like this, etc, etc.” That’s an easy one. I’d bet most of those guys have either had similar things happen to them, or their buddies, and been just as powerless to fight it. They want him to suck it up because that’s what they did, and it doesn’t seem as weak that they haven’t had… Read more »

Deus Ex Machina
Guest

Reblogged this on Deus Ex Machina and commented:
Not even the greeks could’ve written a tragedy like this.

RikF
Guest

I would probably leave finding out about something like this, after her having lied about it all those years. She can never be trusted again, especially considering her behaviour when he confronted her. He nees to get his assets and finances in order and save as much as he can. The problem, I guess, is that it seems to be harder to get 50/50 custody (or full custody for the father) in America than it is here in Euroep (at least in Sweden where I live). This probably means he will be financially ruined and more or less bound to… Read more »

earl
Guest
earl

How is that sexual liberation working out for women these days?

If game, red pill, any of this knowledge is worth its weight in salt…it is knowing which women actually desire you, and which are the subtle sluts who gave it away for nothing and only want you for your ATM capabilities.

Stingray
Guest

I just went back over there an re-read some of the comments on that MT thread. More than one guy said that he should have just taken her at her word and turned her into his slut, like she promised and that he would eventually get over it.

Supposing for a second that she could actually do this for him (and I think the chances are slim that she could), I don’t see him getting over this, ever. I’m not a man, though. How many men could really get over this kind of betrayal?

earl
Guest
earl

And to echo an earlier comment…

I would rather have no women in the world desire me…than to have one who tricks me like that.

Tin Man
Guest

As the saying goes…. “you can’t unsee that” … he now knows. The red pill was forced down his throat, he didn’t take it willingly. The forum at NMMNG and MMSL are filled with these stories. Not for the faint of heart. And it should be required reading before any Man decides to get married.

Because when your mind is awash in a sea of chemicals, you can make some really bad decisions.

earl
Guest
earl

“How many men could really get over this kind of betrayal?”

If they said they could…they are lying.

Stingray
Guest

YaReally,

That makes sense. Sadly, I’m picturing these women never changing and just relaxing back into their role as prude wife and holding their husbands forgiveness over their heads as just another link in the chain.

ropeyarns
Guest

Of course she kept the tape, it reminds her that she isn’t really a frigid mommy that doesn’t like sex and doles out scraps to her Beta hubby. Unfortunately, this guy’s marriage is over. He will never be able to put this behind him and trying to use it as leverage will only turn her into a soul stealing shrew. As far as the reason for divorcing, the truth doesn’t need to come out. You just tell your family that you have grown apart. Because the real reason for divorcing isn’t the tape, it is because this woman settled for… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

This reveals another problem with distorted feminimity… Daddy issues.

Only a woman who treats her husband like part-time-father would restrict sexual access to him, or think that certain acts are “icky” with a husband.

earl
Guest
earl

The truth will set you free…even though it may be painful.

Men can be a pretty forgiving bunch…if you are truthful. Women may not like the results…but they may also be surprised at what can happen.

Which goes to show…the lie or the cover up is usually much worse than the act.

Singl4life
Guest
Singl4life

No man could honestly get over that. It’s similar to the dynamic of women wanting men “to just get it”. The moment she tells you what she wants the act of doing it no longer has value.

The sex he wants out of guilt would be disgusting in his eyes. Nothing she can say or do could fix or change that fact. Game over.

Jeremy
Guest

@earl

And to echo an earlier comment…
I would rather have no women in the world desire me…than to have one who tricks me like that.

A-fucking-men. I would rather end my life a single loser video-game player than have to deal with the deception this guy dealt with, where years of his prime were lost to a woman who would not put out for him, but for others.

YaReally
Guest

@Stingray “Supposing for a second that she could actually do this for him (and I think the chances are slim that she could), I don’t see him getting over this, ever. I’m not a man, though. How many men could really get over this kind of betrayal?” Yep. All the “make her your slave! Now you have control of her!!” from the angry guys doesn’t actually solve his problem. He doesn’t WANT that stuff, and even if he got it he would just be heading down a path where his whole life and marriage is based around resentment and hatred… Read more »

The Latin Buddha
Guest

@YaReally I hear what you’re saying. You’re coming at it from a pragmatic standpoint. And while I’m not versed in the divorce process because I was saved by cancer before marrying a crazy girl, I gotta tell ya…. if he’s been married for 7 years…. and is awakening from betahood … I think it’s safe to assume that he might be younger… possibly late 20s? It MAY be worth getting a fresh start even she keeps half. Maybe for his long-term well being or as part of his road to recovery. Again, I don’t know about that divorce process and… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

@deti

The women remain silent.
I’m waiting.
Waiting for any woman to come here and express outrage, disgust, judgment.
But I hear none.
Not a peep. Not one.

Because doing so would admit that a woman’s body should be freely given to her husband and her husband only when in a committed relationship, not held back. Women won’t admit such a thing.

Stingray
Guest

Feminism has basically removed all consequences for women

Yes and yet, somehow so many still think of themselves as strong. It’s maddening.

earl
Guest
earl

Feminism didn’t remove all consequences for women.

It gave them a convienient excuse to hamsterbate away their consequences.

Being a gangbanged slut still has grave consequences…even the most blue pill mangina of man would have a hard time being ok with this.

findOut
Guest
findOut

I think that all men should ask their wives if they’re willing to take a lie detector test about all the men that they’ve slept with and what they’ve been willing to do. If the wife challenges the husband to also take a lie detector test about all the women that they’ve slept with, just agree to it. The women will yell and carry on about it, but just stand your ground and insist on a lie detector test as a condition of staying married.

Jack Schitz
Guest
Jack Schitz

This guy can probably get a good settlement and custody in divorce, after all he has the tape and if he has the balls to use it then….

Tank
Guest
Tank

“Only later did he realized any “duty” sex she might have with him now would be a feigned effort. He’d be better off banging prostitutes.” What’s the difference? Prostitutes are not pining for their Johns. It’s a business. The cards are on the table now. She said he can do whatever he wants to her. So why not go the other direction and fuck her exactly the way he wants to fuck her. Do it up her ass. Make her gag. She may not be dying to fuck him, but she may be dying to get fucked hard. Isn’t it… Read more »

Deus Ex Machina
Guest

Wow, not even the Greeks could’ve written a tragedy like this. The need for men to learn game is becoming more and more apparent everyday. Women are pragmatists masquerading as romantics. What’s funny is even after he asks her how many guys she’s fucked she still wouldn’t answer the question. The number is astronomical and it’s a certainty she’s been cheating on him. I commend him for his composure and not resolving to physical violence. Cases like these usually end in homicide, suicide or both. What I would do if I were him is get a paternity test on his… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

@Rollo Tomassi

This guy’s real issue is accepting the reality that any future sex he ever has with this woman will be an act of obligation motivated by fear of loss, not genuine desire.

Didn’t he learn that it was always thus? Hasn’t he just unearthed that his entire marriage was a sham where she was holding back?

YaReally
Guest

@Latin Buddha “It MAY be worth getting a fresh start even she keeps half. Maybe for his long-term well being or as part of his road to recovery.” Agreed, if it weren’t for his kid. Men generally aren’t favored in the courts when it comes to getting custody of their kid, and men generally don’t have any support (whereas all of her friends and family will come out of the woodwork to claim that they just KNEW he was abusing her and their child and she should get the kid etc.). So instigating a divorce has a high % chance… Read more »

earl
Guest
earl

“What consequences? Even if he leaves her, she and most of society will paint her as the victim and a thousand lame white knight men will line up to happily take his place.” And you don’t see that as a consequence. She wants an alpha to bang her…not some lame white knight to supplicate her victomhood. Althought that is probably the best she could get given she is a past slut…may get divorced, has a kid, and is much older than when she married her husband. You also didn’t present this option…even with getting half of the funds, the victomhood,… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

“ This guy’s real issue is accepting the reality that any future sex he ever has with this woman will be an act of obligation motivated by fear of loss, not genuine desire. His marriage from here forward is now predicated on that fear.” And even if it isn’t; even if by some miracle she reaches deep within herself and manages to muster up some genuine attraction for him; and she then starts giving him regular pornstar level sex; that nagging doubt will always be there. He’ll always wonder if what he’s seeing and experiencing is genuine desire and love;… Read more »

Stingray
Guest

Didn’t he learn that it was always thus?

Learning it and accepting it are two different things.

YaReally
Guest

@earl “She wants an alpha to bang her…not some lame white knight to supplicate her victomhood.” She’ll get an alpha to bang her…once she secures one of these lame white knights to take care of her. What would stop her from fucking alphas on the side? “even with getting half of the funds, the victomhood, and the kid…she could still wind up all alone. That is a fate worse than death for a lot of women.” lol. She very clearly has no problem/conscience with regards to using a beta guy for his money. She’ll have no problem doing it again… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

@Stingray

Learning it and accepting it are two different things.

Absolutely, but I would think that the realization that you never actually had what you thought you had might be a nice swift kick to the head in that direction.

Zeroday
Guest
Zeroday

That’s some raw shit there mr tomassi. “Her best was never for him”

Sounds eerily familiar. Only without the 7 years and daughter.

Jeremy
Guest

@YaReally

She’ll have no problem doing it again with another one.

That depends on how close to the wall she is, and she instinctively knows it.

Jeremy
Guest

oh, also… LOL…

She never answered his question.

Me: Stop fucking acting like it’s a one time thing. Be honest with me how many guys did you fuck before me. How many guys dicks have you sucked, and how many guys have you let fuck you in the ass.

She: why does it matter, I said I’ll do them with you…

She NEVER ANSWERED IT… lol. Best example of women instinctively realizing what N count means to a man I’ve ever seen.

Stingray
Guest

but I would think that the realization that you never actually had what you thought you had might be a nice swift kick to the head in that direction. One hopes, but we’ve all read and many of us have personally seen men who will not accept reality in hopes of keeping the girl. The fact that he posted this gives me hope that he is working on accepting it. The internet is giving men far more options in pulling away from the narrative and help in that acceptance. God knows that if he takes her back he will be… Read more »

earl
Guest
earl

“She’ll have no problem doing it again with another one.”

I’d have to see a recent photo of her to agree or disagree with that statement.

And if she is throwing out all these statemtents to keep her current ATM…I’d have to say she has either hit the wall or is rapidly approaching it.

earl
Guest
earl

Heh…the next time a woman asks how much you make…just answer:

“Why does it matter?”

YaReally
Guest

@Jeremy “Me: Stop fucking acting like it’s a one time thing. Be honest with me how many guys did you fuck before me. How many guys dicks have you sucked, and how many guys have you let fuck you in the ass. She: why does it matter, I said I’ll do them with you… She NEVER ANSWERED IT… lol. Best example of women instinctively realizing what N count means to a man I’ve ever seen.” lol this is an example of asking in a judgemental way. And what happens? Obviously, she won’t actually answer and will try to lie. That’s… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

Or, Earl, respond to a question with a question..

Woman: “How much do you make?”
You: “How many people have you had sex with?”

sunshinemary
Guest

@Rollo I have a quick question if you have a moment. Recently someone linked to some NIH/CDC data on my site showing that the average number of sexual partners for females is 3ish and for males is 5ish: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf Another study recently completely showed that when women were hooked up to lie detector tests, they admitted to higher numbers of partners, about the same as men, around 5 or 6: http://www.livescience.com/34778-men-and-women-lie-about-sex.html So my question is this: I believe you when you say that women all have this slut potential within them. And I see with my own two eyes a… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

@YaReally

The thing a woman fears most is judgement. Remove that, and she’ll share all sorts of fucked up shit with you. That chick would tell a guy like Russell Brand her whole sexual history, and proudly.

Exactly, which is why it is so obvious that her plea to save her marriage is actually based on an entirely false premise. She is not attracted to him, if she was she’d come clean, or have come clean already. She fears judgement by the man she married?? Really? Doesn’t sound like she was ever vulnerable to the man, ever.

deti
Guest
deti

We all know what Aunt Giggles would tell our RPReddit commenter in the OP.

Something like this:

“You obviously made a poor choice in your spouse. You should shut up, stop your complaining, and live with your mistake; or simply divorce her and take your lumps. Sucks to be you.”

Jeremy
Guest

I don’t disagree at all Rollo, which is why my first comment here said this: To me the take-away for the women is… N count matters less than our belief that you can be *OUR* slut when committed to us. However, the greater the N, the more obvious it is that you’ll do those things with anybody. The N-count only struck me as humorous on a re-reading. This woman was “pleading” to save her marriage. She was giving all outward appearances that her world was ending because her man was misjudging her, but was still unwilling to come clean and… Read more »

Theodore Logan
Guest
Theodore Logan

There is nothing in that marriage to save, not even the daughter. He should just go flat out scorched earth on that bitch, leave and divorce.

deti
Guest
deti

SSM:

My point in noting that women are silent on this thread is simply to point out that women aren’t coming here to condemn the clear wrong this woman in the OP perpetrated on her husband. You can’t claim I’m being inconsistent in demanding that women condemn the conduct, because I’m not insisting that debate take place. The wrongfulness of her conduct is simply beyond all debate.

Nice try, though.

earl
Guest
earl

If you are talking about N count and desire.

As the N count goes up…the desire for future men goes down. Doesn’t mean a woman of say 4 or 5 can’t still desire her husband…but the odds of that happening go down the more dicks she encounters.

The wise thing for a woman to do is marry the man she desires…and keep her legs shut until that happens. However wisdom is a rare commodity these days

Red Hurricane
Guest
Red Hurricane

My ex wife once told me she had done ass-to-mouth with another man in her past. When I tried to do ti to her a week later she refused. She said explicitly “No, you wouldn’t appreciate it”. I have never felt more rage or shame than I did that day. Post divorce we have a friends with benefits sort of relationship. Now that I’m spending all my time and money on improving myself things are quite different. I’ve ass-to-mouthed her many times. And she’s sent thank you texts for ‘the severe ass fucking you inflicted on me last night”. I… Read more »

earl
Guest
earl

@deti…

Well are they going to do it now that you’ve constantly said these things.

Demanding women condemn this woman…is like demanding a woman to desire a man she couldn’t care less about. Free will can’t be negotiated.

YaReally
Guest

“If this woman’s N count was just one guy, but that guy took her in the ass, gave her facials and basically received enthusiastic porn-star sexual services she genuinely desired to engage in with him, yet wouldn’t give her husband of 7 years so much as a perfunctory blow job, does it really matter if she had gang bangs or 20 men before him? The result is still the same.” This. Well said. Like I say, it’s not WHAT she did that’s blown the guy’s mind, it’s that she wouldn’t do it with HIM. That’s why “now you can do… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

Earl:

“ Well are they going to do it now that you’ve constantly said these things.”

No, they won’t. The only ones who will say anything about this are honest women of integrity like SSM and Sting, who aren’t afraid to acknowledge that most women have this level of sluttery in them.

earl
Guest
earl

I don’t mind that women have that level of sluttery in them…as long as the one I pick has that level of sluttery only for me. Problem is that most have been fed a lie that they need “experiences” before they marry. The more experience they have…the more their odds of desiring the next man go down. Settling is a BIG problem in today’s culture.

Plus a woman that is a prude is no more fun than a depleted slut who wants to retire her jersey.

sunshinemary
Guest

SSM and Sting, who aren’t afraid to acknowledge that most women have this level of sluttery in them. Oh, indeed, I have no problem reiterating what I said at Donal’s; pretty much all women are Ado Annie and just cain’t say no, if genuine desire is present. Moving on. A question: several people now have said that it wasn’t WHAT the woman had done, it was that she didn’t then want to do those things with her husband. Is that really true? Would it really be okay with you to see your hypothetical wife on video doing that kind of… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

Deti,

It’s not so much the sluttery you want condemned, it’s the fraud. What needs to be condemned is the fact that a woman would let a man believe she was his woman (slut) only for him to discover that not only has she been holding out on him, but she’s been holding out things she easily did for other men.

deti
Guest
deti

“I’m really having trouble believing that Ns for either men or women are actually this low – what do you think is going on with those low numbers?” I’ll take a crack at that one. I think the average male lifetime N of 5 or 6 is probably accurate. I think women are able to convince themselves that their Ns are lower than they actually are, and can lie convincingly about it. I think they can lie so convincingly about it that they can even deceive themselves into believing their Ns are lower than they are. Another factor is sex… Read more »

Jeremy
Guest

@sunshinemary

Is that really true? Would it really be okay with you to see your hypothetical wife on video doing that kind of thing if she were also happy to do it with you, too?

All you have to do as a wife is convince me that I can have your body anytime I want, any way I want, and I’ll build you a home on Mars before I’ll worry about other guys. Think of the low-gravity on your figure!

Cautiously Pessimistic
Guest
Cautiously Pessimistic

“She said explicitly “No, you wouldn’t appreciate it”. I have never felt more rage or shame than I did that day.” I think, for better or worse, western men have been conditioned not to care about a woman’s past sexual history. In my opinion, that’s a bad thing, but that’s beside the point. What men do care about and care about quite deeply is that their wife did stuff with other men that she won’t do with him. Because he’s not worth it. Because she doesn’t think of him in that way. Because she’s not that way anymore (not with… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti

“Would it really be okay with you to see your hypothetical wife on video doing that kind of thing if she were also happy to do it with you, too?”

It might be. As long as I’m going to be expected to pay full freight and buy the cow, I want the same quality milk. I want to have what everyone else got to have.

aaron
Guest
aaron

Quite a story. Of course, this won’t be consciously calculated on her part, just her following her instinct – or feelings. It’s completely right that her only aim is maintaining the situation for herself with absolutely no regard for how it could impact him. All trust has been lost – unwise it would be to back.

Stingray
Guest

several people now have said that it wasn’t WHAT the woman had done, it was that she didn’t then want to do those things with her husband. Is that really true?

In relative terms, yes. What she did was not only a deep betrayal, but it was an enormous slam directly to his masculinity and his manhood. Being a past slut is bad, but if she is honest about it, she gives him a choice. But the dig to his manhood is all but unrecoverable.

Stingray
Guest

It’s scary, and fascinating.

Holy crap. Yes, scary and fascinating. And just sad.

earl
Guest
earl

“Is that really true? Would it really be okay with you to see your hypothetical wife on video doing that kind of thing if she were also happy to do it with you, too?”

It’s a red flag…but geniue non-negotiated desire can cover faults. Actions speak louder than words.

deti
Guest
deti

SSM:

Most women believe that the only sex partners who count towards their N are sober, P in V sex, completed to ejaculation, within a relationship. Most women don’t believe the following count:

-sex while intoxicated
-sexual conduct involving anything other than P in V
-one night stands or flings
-incomplete P in V sex

livingtree2013
Guest

Hey Rollo, another very interesting post! And this time, I 100% agree. However, I stopped sympathizing with buddy’s plight after this line: “She would never give a blow job, only would do certain positions and found almost every sex act degrading. I was frustrated by this, but [I REALLY LIKED HER] and hoped over the years she would open up sexually. Over the years, [IT NEVER GOT ANY BETTER] but [I LEARNED TO GET OVER IT].” Unbelievable. Do you not see the problem here? He “really liked her”, which is great I guess, but the point is, from the start… Read more »

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