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To start off today’s topic I thought I’d repost a Red Pill reddit thread I received a link-back to last week. Rather than give you my own summary of this guy’s situation, I felt the impact would be more significant by posting it in its entirety; and also because I don’t believe the guy really got a fair hearing on his original post.

I posted this earlier on another subreddit but it ended up getting removed because of fighting in the comments. I’ll sum up what happened thus far. I met my wife 7 years ago, she was extremely picky when it came to sex. She told me she only has been with 1 other guy before. She would never give a blow job, only would do certain positions and found almost every sex act degrading. I was frustrated by this, but I really liked her and hoped over the years she would open up sexually. Over the years, it never got any better but I learned to get over it. Well I ended up finding an old video from her college days of her engaging in group sex with 6 other people 5 guys 1 girl. In the video she has anal sex, oral sex, gets double teamed, and yells multiple times in the video she is a “I am a filthy whore.” All of it she was enthusiastic about it. I ended up feeling really sad. I can understand certain stuff people don’t want to do, but it wasn’t the fact she didn’t want to do them. She didn’t want to do them with me but every other guy she was their whore. I was angry hurt and I ended up saying some stupid shit to my wife.

I asked her if she could drop our daughter off at her sister’s house because I wanted to talk to her. She asked why, I told her we’d discuss after she came back.

I don’t remember all the details of the conversation, so I’ll try my best to sum it up. I was drinking a bit before she came which wasn’t the best idea.

Me: Is there anything about your past you have been hiding about me?

Her: Why are we talking about this?

Me: I just want to know were you in any type of porn or anything like that?

Her: are you taking drugs?

Me: I found your video from college with the other guys. I don’t know who you are anymore and I feel ill being around you.

She starts crying.

Me: Do you have anything to say?

She continues to cry. This was pointless I go to grab my keys to leave. And she tries to stop me.

Me: If you don’t want me to leave then I need you to be 100% honest with me, and tell me why you lied to me for all these years.

She: I didn’t want you to think I was a slut

Me: I would have been perfectly fine if you told me, I would have loved to have done those wild things with you. Look I get it I don’t turn you on like those other guys do. You liked sucking their dicks but not mine.

She: It’s not that, I didn’t want you to think less of me.

Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.

She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.

Me: I don’t want you to do it because you feel like you have to. I want someone that actually desires me.

She: I can change I promise don’t ruin our marriage over this we can work things out. We can go to marriage counseling seriously talk to me.

Me: Marriage counseling won’t change how you feel about me. Look I will try marriage counseling but I want a trial separation for now.

She: Please don’t do this. Don’t throw away our marriage for what I did in college please.

Me: Stop fucking acting like it’s a one time thing. Be honest with me how many guys did you fuck before me. How many guys dicks have you sucked, and how many guys have you let fuck you in the ass.

She: why does it matter, I said I’ll do them with you

Me: I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.

She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change.

Me: I am not divorcing you but I want a trial separation for now, and I want to see how things go, right now I feel sick looking at you.

I ended up leaving my wife kept trying to stop me. She kept on begging saying I could do anything I wanted with her, it was truly pathetic and I lost all respect for my wife the way she was trying to manipulate me with sex.

I am staying at a motel right now; I have been getting constant calls from my wife. She has been asking me where I am, if I tell her than she is going to confront me and I don’t feel like I am ready for that. I feel so fucking drained. I feel bad saying those things to my wife but I don’t know what else to do I am so fucking hurt over this.

As I said before I wouldn’t care if she had a promiscuous past, seriously, wouldn’t care but the fact she did all those things for other guys but doesn’t do them for me hurts me the deepest.

I don’t see how this marriage can be recovered. I can’t change her attraction to me. My father has recently has been diagnosed with a tumor in his lung, and that has already been stressing me out pretty badly.

Please tell me what exactly I can do, my confidence as a man has been destroyed. Before I found out about this, I tried to get my wife to open up sexually but she completely shot it down. I really believe she isn’t attracted to me in the way she was to those other guys. That’s why she felt completely fine being “their whore” but won’t give me a blow job. I want a woman that looks at me lustfully, not that has sex with me to fulfill “wifey duties.”

I don’t feel entitled to other types of sex with my wife. I want her to want to do them. Now even if she does do them it will be out of guilt, not out of desire. I don’t see how we can recover our marriage. I feel really shitty that I won’t be able to seem my daughter as much, especially during her younger years.

I have already made some calls to reroute my paychecks and get my finances in order if we do go for a divorce. My brother works at a big law firm, I am thinking about contacting him to at least see what I should be doing now. Thing is once I call him it becomes the point of no return, if I tell my family members than their image of my wife becomes destroyed. Also I’d have to check because right now she is dependent on me for health insurance, and I don’t want her to be deprived of that if we do divorce, because she has been having health issues. I don’t want to ruin anything but I can’t see how things would ever be okay. If you don’t have any advice for me and are just going to be judgmental please don’t waste your time commenting. I know I said some hurtful things in there but you don’t know the level of hurt I am feeling right now. I have apologized to my wife since then, but I don’t see how our relationship can be recovered.

Edit – I want to make things work, between me and my wife. I understand she doesn’t want to do certain sex acts. I am considering proposing to her the idea of an open marriage. That way we can still be together as a family and we both can have the fulfilling sex lives we want.

There’s a lot going on in this situation, but I think the first thing that should be addressed here is that, personally, I think these sorts of past life revelations are a lot more common than most men are comfortable in admitting. I wish I could say this was the first time I’ve ever encountered a story like his — it’s actually the 7th time, and four of those were personal accounts from men I’ve counseled.

As our culture becomes more technologically adept, electronic records – whether they’re ‘self-shots’, incriminating GNO pics uploaded to various forms of social media, male-stripper party videos, or amateur / semi-pro pornography – will have an increasingly greater role in filling the pieces of the puzzle that constitutes a woman’s relational and sexual past. The real problem will cease to be doing any actual detective work, and more about what a (Beta) man will allow himself to believe about his ‘special snowflake’ in contrast to the gestalt knowledge of women’s behaviors on whole.

There was a recent article posted on Return of Kings by Emmanuel Goldstein detailing the Game necessity of presuming all women are sluts. In light of stories like this it’s hard not to see the pragmatism in that, but at least when you are single, Game-aware and spinning plates you have the luxury and (should have) the foresight to know that even the Good Girls ‘Do’ have the inclination to go feral with the hot Alpha in the foam cannon party in Cancun on Spring Break when she’s in the proliferative phase of her ovulatory cycle.

Predictably, I’m sure the “ooh, ooh men do it too!” wing of the critics gallery will be the first to cry foul, as they ever have, about my drawing attention to the feral dynamics of sexual side of feminine hypergamy. And were it only about one side of women’s pluralistic sexual strategy (Alpha Fucks & Beta Bucks) they might have a point, but it’s the other half of the Hypergamic equation, the part that requires long term male provisioning paired with emotional investment that sets men’s short term sexual appetites apart from women’s short term Hypergamy.

The Best of Her

The author of this reddit thread is feeling the sharp end of that Hypergamic equation. While I’m sure there will be every effort made to paint this man’s wife as some fucked up, emotionally damaged, and conveniently, sexually abused victim (we don’t know this, but that was the default association in the comments of his original thread), the operative I’m driving at here isn’t about her individualized experiences, but the methodology she and all women use to justify their sexual pluralism.

Prior to the advent of technologies that could evidentially prove women’s sexual exploits (often proudly so now) the more visceral aspects of a woman’s sexuality, and the inconvenient hindbrain/hormonal prompts that motivate them, could be kept secret well enough to deceive a man with provisioning potential to commit to the long term security the other half of her Hypergamy demands. As the technology to record this becomes more ubiquitous, more permanent and fluid in its use, as men become more interconnected by it, and as women enjoy more self-affirmation from it, rationalizing her past indiscretions becomes more of an imperative.

Men saturated and conditioned over the better half of their lifetime by the feminine imperative to be the convenient cuckolds to women’s Hypergamy – men like the author of this confession – have an ego-invested interest in presuming the woman they pair with will be “giving him the best of herself” once his ship comes in and all of his patience and equalist beliefs finally pay off.

Only, men like this discover too late, usually well after they realize their commitment has hamstrung their SMV peak potential, that not only have they been a retroactive cuckold (sometimes even moralistically proud to be so), but they’ve been socially conditioned to be one, by their mothers, their emasculated fathers, their sisters, female friends, teachers and the whole of the feminine imperative’s effort for most of their lives.

One of the reasons I, and most of the manosphere, receive so much scorn from plugged-in, feminine primary society is that we risk to expose this process. This author’s story is the inconvenient truth of a pluralistic feminine sexual strategy. Women’s capacity to cash out of the SMP, to raise children, to create a semblance of a family life so conflicted with her single life, on what she thinks should be her terms, all rides on keeping men with a long term provisioning potential (greater Betas) ignorant of their pre-cuckolding and the conditioning that took so long to convince them would be their responsibility.

I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.

The primary reason men become preoccupied with women’s sexual past is rooted in ‘getting the best’ she has to offer him sexually. There is certainly more aspects to this (fidelity, secure attachment, etc.), but as I’ve stated before, all men want a slut, they just want her to be HIS slut. Once the belief that he’s getting the best sex she has to offer him is dispelled, viscerally and definitively, the nature of the Desire Dynamic comes into sharp focus.

I Want You to Want Me

Naturally, once a woman’s true sexual capacity is revealed after the establishment of her normalized, married sexuality, her first impetus is to preserve the provisioning she enjoyed while ‘her secret’ was working for her.

Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.

She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.

[…] She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change

What we’re reading here is the script for negotiated desire. Her real desire isn’t for his satisfaction or any real resolution for the deception of her sexual pluralism, but rather a solipsistic maintaining of a normalcy for herself. Our author has no other rationalizations to fall back on, denial of his conditions are no longer sufficient, and he begins to realize a cruel red pill truth – you cannot negotiate genuine desire.

He wants her to want him, he wants her to desire sex with him with the same verve and enthusiasm she did with other men in her videos. He wants her sexual best, but her 7 years of unwillingness to give him that while enjoying the benefits of his provisioning, his patience, love and perseverance only puts her strategy, the Hypergamic strategy, into perfect focus. Her genuine desire, her sexual best was never intended for him in the first place.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

So, RPSMF, do you see it as a psychological desire for balance? They get sick or bored of being held up on high?

Or do you see it as a corporeal, animal urge that must out, and the more and longer it’s pent up, the dirtier it’s gonna be?

swiftfoxmark2
8 years ago

@Jeremy The primary reason I suspect that she hasn’t cheated on him is because of her behavior during her marriage toward her husband. To her, her husband was her meal ticket essentially. While I agree that people often do irrational things against their best interests, in her case, I think she didn’t cheat on him during the marriage because she knew it would jeopardize her meal ticket. Women are very good at weighing the benefits of marriage against being single and/or divorced. This is largely why the high divorce rates in the United States can be attributed to women as… Read more »

deti
deti
8 years ago

D-man:

I agree mostly with RPSMF and Morpheus’ characterizations. Women want dick. They want a masculine man to fuck them silly without apology or excuse.

I see this as a manifestation of what I call the female prime directive, which is in turn a subpart of Rollo’s Feminine Imperative.

The female prime directive is to secure alpha seed from the best, highest quality man (men) possible so as to get pregnant and have as many strong, healthy babies as possible.

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago

So, RPSMF, do you see it as a psychological desire for balance? They get sick or bored of being held up on high? No, sexual drives don’t originate from a desire for balance…but from a strong sense of need. Release, or impregnation, or attention, or domination, whatever the case may be. I do know that women get tired of being pedestalized, yes, because that’s a denial of their basic humanity. They want to get off sexually just like men do, but fueled by more reasons than physical need. Or do you see it as a corporeal, animal urge that must… Read more »

Red Hurricane
Red Hurricane
8 years ago

If all women are game aware and a logical conclusion of game is that marriage is a no-upside proposition for men then do all women think less of married men? When proposed to do women have the thought in the back of their head: “this guy is not as clever as I thought he was.” And shit, on the other end of it do men who leave their wives get a bump in feminine SMP valuation? The most effective pickup line I’ve ever used in my life was on the day I left my wife. I said “This morning I… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

Thanks, keep em coming… I agree that Western women have been over-pedestalized, and bottling up the more feral aspects of their nature is leading to some dramatic de-pressurizations. But I’m interested in how it plays out INTERNALLY within each woman. I mean, aside from the basic psychological dynamic of putting someone in a room with a red button and a sign that says: DO NOT PRESS THE RED BUTTON. A woman who asks to be treated like a filthy, worthless whore is pressing that red button that’s been sitting in front of her all her life. Here’s a thought: I… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

As an aside…

“The female prime directive is to … have as many strong, healthy babies as possible.”

If this is true, the modern woman is fucking up bigtime. I know of many couples who’ve waited until their late thirties to “start trying”, and are shocked and depressed that it doesn’t seem to be working…

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

Ahh, RPSMF, I just went to your article, I see we’ve arrived at the same observation:

“She has one force that is her desire to be desired.”

…I’ll keep reading…

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago

If all women are game aware and a logical conclusion of game is that marriage is a no-upside proposition for men then do all women think less of married men? In a word, yes. When proposed to do women have the thought in the back of their head: “this guy is not as clever as I thought he was.” Again: yes. And shit, on the other end of it do men who leave their wives get a bump in feminine SMP valuation? The most effective pickup line I’ve ever used in my life was on the day I left my… Read more »

sal ceech
sal ceech
8 years ago

@Rollo ..is it twisted the increase in cuk porn ..yes in some respects. Is it sad most definitely. Remember you sent us the post about ” Blue Valentine” the movie? The scenario is a bit different however the bottom line is the same ..walk away. @redpill I’m gonna write that down what you posted because the entire manosphere awareness , SS forums , Rollo, s book and blog …it is entierally condensed in those 2 paragraphs. After a man comes to the arrival of red pill awareness let it be SOP for well being ..if your alone let Freedom be… Read more »

deti
deti
8 years ago

Deti:“The female prime directive is to … have as many strong, healthy babies as possible.” D-man: “If this is true, the modern woman is fucking up bigtime.” No she’s not. The imperative is to secure the seed in the first instance. The single woman slutting around with the most attractive men she can find still wants the hot alpha man to have sex with; but intentionally thwarts the impregnation part of it. There are many reasons for this: Choice addiction; not wanting to commit; wanting to be a strongindependentwoman ™; etc. Yes, the end result is supposed to be pregnancy.… Read more »

bob
bob
8 years ago

“I found a video of my wife being fucked by 5 guys.” Life shattering, right? “I ended up feeling really sad.” Really sad? That’s how you describe it? “I don’t remember all the details of the conversation, so I’ll try my best to sum it up. I was drinking a bit before she came which wasn’t the best idea.” That’s damn convenient, the guy was drunk so, please, if it doesn’t make sense, that’s perfectly fine. “My father has recently has been diagnosed with a tumor in his lung, and that has already been stressing me out pretty badly.” Yeah,… Read more »

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago

@Rollo

Spot. On.

roe
roe
8 years ago

@LivingTree2013 – The forum here has collectively exhausted this topic for insight, I think. I’ll offer some summarizing thoughts: We can come at a topic like this from an “understanding” frame – where we talk about the biomechanics (women’s dual-mating strategy) and the culture milieu (slut-shaming), and this is a good way to understand the problem – but it does suggest the people involved have less agency and are more at the whim of forces beyond their ken or control. We can also take a “responsibility” frame, where we take it as writ people have full agency, regardless of biomechanics… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  roe

Roe, I never once had any baby/wedding fantasies as a young girl. I have my tubes tied. And I was adopted from birth. So its true, I do feel somewhat more philosophical about the maternal “parental-ownership” construct, which I think is largely an emotionally driven compulsion. I’m not in any way suggesting that But nevermind me… I have nothing more to say here, I’m enjoying the dialogue going on now. The thing I’ve always found lacking in these articles is any discussion bout WHY women are so fucked up about sex…and they really are. Its incredibly important to understand it,… Read more »

YOHAMI
8 years ago
Reply to  livingtree2013

LT,

the maternal “parental-ownership” construct, which I think is largely an emotionally driven compulsion.

Its either a construct (void, meaningless, arbitrary) or an emotional driven compulsion (biological, true). Pick one, you dont make sense.

I don’t think there’s a biological need for “alpha seed to make many healthy babies”

So you dont think women are sexually attracted to alpha men.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  YOHAMI

Not what I’m saying at all Yohami. Many women (though not all, definitely not all) are attracted to alpha men, I just doubt that it has much to do with impregnation. Maybe at a subliminal level, but I think its really more about the shame factor. And also, truth be known, they’re funner in bed. Honestly, if women could just be OK with enjoying sex, even outside of the bounds of marriage, egads!… if they weren’t so messed up over being innundated constantly with so many conflicting messages, scandalized or worshipped or glamorized or “proprietized” over their sexuality (ya I… Read more »

Morpheus
8 years ago
Reply to  livingtree2013

Not what I’m saying at all Yohami. Many women (though not all, definitely not all) are attracted to alpha men, I just doubt that it has much to do with impregnation. Maybe at a subliminal level, but I think its really more about the shame factor. LT, based on this statement, either one of two things is true, either you are completely unfamiliar with evolutionary psychology or completely reject it as an explanatory model for human mating behavior. If it is the latter, all of us here will be talking past each other endlessly. I’d say one of the pillars… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Morpheus

No Morpheus, its that classical “evolutionary psychology” doctrine hasn’t really captured the peculiarities of our modern evolutionary stage – biology is a factor, but a suppressed one. Our psychology is being overridden by external inputs now.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Morpheus

And yes, I know only a random smattering of women who don’t enjoy being dominated in the bedroom. But the bedroom is the only place I like being dominated.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  roe

oops, missed finishing a sentence there… I’m not suggesting that there is no parent-child bond. Just that it doesn’t need to be the formative construct of our entire world.

Jeremy
8 years ago

@LT Yes actually. I would. Because in the modern world, I am not trading sex for food. We both get sex, we both get food, and we both get a whole lot more too, and with neither of us laboring under the burden of being indebted, we both are free. “Food for sex” may be the marriage trade for you, and maybe for the very conservative and fundamentalist folks among you, but this is exactly where we diverge. I just would never think of myself, the product of my uterus, or my husband, or his resources, as a trade-able commodity.… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Ah Jeremy, you just explained why I’ve never wanted to marry.

I have no such thoughts about trade, I am a capitalist through and through.

I just don’t think my body is a tradeable commodity. If I did, I would be inclined to marry, or become a prostitute, which is what marriage by your definition, is, and why I’ll have none of it. And though I can’t recall now which one it was, I believe even your hero Rollo has written articles saying as much.

I know, crazy feminists, right.

roe
roe
8 years ago

One more thing, LT:

The expectations of me as a father (two daughters) is not characterized, even culturally, as consisting mostly of “rights”, but of “obligations” – as in, we’re (my wife & I) obligated to feed them, provide a healthy, secure and nurturing environment, &etc. This is as it should be – we chose to bring them into the world, they did not choose me as a father, so the obligations flow from me to them.

My “rights” are active involvement in their lives and security in the knowledge that I’m their biological father.

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ Rollo

That song is going on my playlist. Good find…

The guy’s issue seems to be that he cares more about validation from her to meet his emotional neediness, than he cares about her compliance in meeting his tangible relationship requirements. Common “blue pill” brainwashed mistake in prioritizing “feelings” over “doings”. In contrast, the guys who escalated, elicited, and required that behavior of her in the video, without worrying about her validation, got her enthusiastic submission and participation – and her attraction too as a byproduct.

Tin Man
Tin Man
8 years ago

@Redhurricane… “(for the record my ex-wife may be crazy but in retrospect it was me who lost my alpha edge in the marriage and pushed her into being a bitch towards me)” That was me also. I’ve stated before, I become the Great American Beta Husband – and I’ve come to realize (after reading over the past year) that my (x)wife is probably the “quintessential” woman – almost every article/post I read is her to a T — and only became a problem once I became a BETA husband and a pure supplicant. And as Deti and Morpheus were discussion… Read more »

Random Angeleno
Random Angeleno
8 years ago

sacrifices and obligations: man sacrifices his economic surplus. that’s his value. woman sacrifices her body. that’s her value. benefits: man gets exclusive access to her body. woman gets exclusive access to his resources. This is why a man’s affairs piss off the woman: she sees resources that should be hers go to some other woman. Also I have known women who attempted to cut men off from their children of a previous marriage in order to get him to redirect his resources for her children’s exclusive use. This is why paternity fraud is such a big deal. It’s one thing… Read more »

Jeremy
8 years ago

@Dr. Jeremy

In contrast, the guys who escalated, elicited, and required that behavior of her in the video, without worrying about her validation, got her enthusiastic submission and participation – and her attraction too as a byproduct.

… difficult to argue with this. Harder still when I consider your credentials. Makes me really pause and realize that there is no alternative to creating (and ensuring/demanding) attraction and proof of attraction first and foremost.

Tin Man
Tin Man
8 years ago

And now I’ve got one more comment…then I really need to get back to making money… A woman’s mission is CHANGE the man she chooses (call it whatever you want, but it is her choosing – because we bash them over the head and cart them off to our cave anymore – we choose who we approach and then commit to) A Man’s mission is NOT CHANGE for that woman (because if you change, she will no longer want you, and will choose another) That simple rule is not taught with enough emphasis, at least it wasn’t taught to me… Read more »

Jeremy
8 years ago

@livingtree2013 …If I did, I would be inclined to marry, or become a prostitute, which is what marriage by your definition, is, and why I’ll have none of it. So, now you agree with me about the marriage contract, and use that agreement as an example of why you don’t marry… But I’m still entirely wrong, and all my explanations of biological inclinations for why the marriage deal is the way it is have to do with my extreme conservatism and religiousity? So, all marriage, throughout time, was an evil construct of the patriarchy? Incidentally, if you can’t see the… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Of course I see that Jeremy. Its not a one way street where women are exploited and men have perfect liberty. I don’t think that at all. I think I’ve been pretty clear that I think we are both getting a raw deal here. Just that women are really fucked about sex. I genuinely wish that weren’t the case. And I am not interested in marrying because I know that there are too many men in the world who think that by marrying me that I become their possession that they can use any time they like, thereby eliminating my… Read more »

Tin Man
Tin Man
8 years ago

@Rollo….Quiet woman, men are speaking.

^^^THIS^^^

To the kitchen with you, the Men are going to the parlor to talk.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Tin Man

“To the kitchen with you, the Men are going to the parlor to talk.”

Fine…

Red Hurricane
Red Hurricane
8 years ago

Here’s a fun study I’d like to perform. I want to survey highschool boys and correlate their sexual frequency with their parenting situation. From my highschool days I would guess that the boys raised by single fathers get laid the least, and the boys raised by single mothers get laid the most, with two parent boys somewhere in the middle. If (and it’s still if) that holds I would forward and explanation. Every boy’s first role model is his father. Single dad’s are overwhelmingly extreme betas. And single mothers usually end up that way by fucking a big bad alpha… Read more »

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ Jeremy Both my personal and professional experience has led me to the conclusion that most modern people will take the trade you offer them – whether it is “fair” for you or not. So, if a man offers a woman “everything”, simply in exchange for making him feel “special” and nothing more, many women will take that deal (and provide nothing more than required). In some ways, they would be stupid not to take it. Yes, historically, there was some influence from religion and morality that punished people for agreeing to trades that took advantage of others – but… Read more »

Jeremy
8 years ago

@livingtree2013 And I am not interested in marrying because I know that there are too many men in the world who think that by marrying me that I become their possession that they can use any time they like, thereby eliminating my will from the equation. It really sounds like you’re not ready for commitment in any sense of the word. Where that comes from is outside the scope of the conversation, but that’s what you’re saying. You’re saying, “commitment is prostitution,” and I’m saying, “commitment is mutual sacrifice.” Your way of looking at it involves painting women as victims.… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Not at all Jeremy. The prostitution is just part of the “exchange” theory that so many men ascribe to. If I’m going to be a prostitute, I’m going to do it on my terms. That’s what independent means, in theory. I’d happily commit to someone who didn’t restrict my free will. I want to be in a commitment because I WANT to be, not because I HAVE to be. Just that it doesn’t happen that way very often, but there is a huge difference between them. And I dunno, from what you guys are saying here, I think you want… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Just kidding about that last bit. I never cry over philosophy. 🙂

earl
earl
8 years ago

Moral of the story: We all live in a world of shit.

I honestly don’t know how an athiest who takes the red pill could believe or invest everything in this broken down mixed up world. For as many highs as it provides…there are many lows too.

Faith and hope are the two things keeping me from despair or insanity.

YaReally
8 years ago

@Matt

“Beautiful — and even average — people do not have to deprave themselves to get sexual satisfaction,”

Lololol oh Matt…every post you make contains at least one little nugget of joy that lets everyone know you’ve never actually had sex or kept a woman.

Sorry guys, average to beautiful women do NOT like depraved fucking. Light romantic candles and call her a goddess, that’s what they really want.

How’s your collection of cuckold porn, Matt? lol

YaReally
8 years ago

Also this particular story reads as a hoax, but it doesn’t matter. It’s a good teaching opportunity because a lot of men have been through very similar experiences, or have friends who have, or are on their way toward it right now.

Hell my buddies and I alone can vouch for getting way better/kinkier sex from girls than their boyfriends/husbands get from them lol this is a legitimate thing that red pill men should study and keep in mind…ESPECIALLY before marriage/kids (also don’t get married lol)

Jeremy
8 years ago

@Dr. Jeremy

Frankly, I think part of the “blue pill” problem is that many people still have not woken up to this wild-west reality.

Or, in the case of most men, they’re taught by mother, father, family, friends, and everyone they know that reality isn’t reality. This isn’t done maliciously, but it is done, and it’s evil.

Jeremy
8 years ago

@LT I’d happily commit to someone who didn’t restrict my free will. I want to be in a commitment because I WANT to be, not because I HAVE to be. Just that it doesn’t happen that way very often, but there is a huge difference between them. com·mit·ment (k-mtmnt) n. 1. The act or an instance of committing, especially: a. The act of referring a legislative bill to committee. b. Official consignment, as to a prison or mental health facility. c. A court order authorizing consignment to a prison. 2. a. A pledge to do. b. Something pledged, especially an… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Interesting point Jeremy, that may be the reason I have tended to steer clear of it then – I always thought it was because I didn’t find a man (or woman) that was worthy of giving up my options for. Maybe they are the same? If I freely pledge to give up my options, is that actually a restriction of my free will? I don’t see it as such. Could be just a perspective thing.

Slothrop
Slothrop
8 years ago

First of all, the entire story reads too perfectly, it’s probably a troll from a cuckold or MTGOW type. I suppose the counter-argument is that it doesn’t matter, it *could* have happened. But it doesn’t fit the narrative I’m familiar with, a former slut doesn’t clam it up for Mr Beta Hubby unless there’s something else going on there. This could happen if the guy had a severe “Madonna/Whore Complex”, e.g. he actually enjoyed the fact his wife didn’t “degrade” herself by having all the crazy kinky sex he secretly wanted. Which it’s why it’s necessary to get your partner’s… Read more »

Red Hurricane
Red Hurricane
8 years ago

@livingtree2013

I think you aren’t operating with a clear definition of commitment. Once you set terms of a commitment you lose the privilege of modifying those terms. Every committed person sacrifices their ability to live on their own terms. If it’s just something you do while you want it and drop when you don’t it’s not a commitment.

earl
earl
8 years ago

“Sorry guys, average to beautiful women do NOT like depraved fucking. Light romantic candles and call her a goddess, that’s what they really want.”

She probably wants the hot candle wax poured upon her.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  earl

Earl… hot candle wax is fun!

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
8 years ago

Back in my younger years, myself, 2 brothers and a friend, gang banged a very slutty girl. She had been with two of the others plus a different friend on more then one occasion previously. I was bartending at the time. About a month after the bang, she came up to the bar, and excitedly told me she was engaged.

Never saw her again.

So yes Matt, this is quite a normal thing. Woman have the ability for basically unlimited orgasms. Men, one maybe two a night. You do the math.

earl
earl
8 years ago

Hoax or not…it has provided amazing discussion. You can’t take that away.

Plus the sheer number of men in this situation or knowing a guy in this situation is why it could be a real story or a clever hoax. It is believable.

Deep Dish
Deep Dish
8 years ago

Heh, what a funny coincidence. A few months ago, I signed up to an escort verification service and escort review boards. These are the high-end girls you have to have references from other escorts before they will even agree to meet you. It’s a surreal experience to find entire forum threads on some girl that you’re about to meet. Last night, I was doing research on an upcoming encounter and found out the next girl I will be banging did two porn videos a decade ago. I even got my hands on a copy and watched her get plowed, bareback,… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Deep Dish

Deep Dish, funny I said something like that on another forum just the other day,

“A girl who says “I’m not that kind of girl” is like a guy who says “You can trust me”.

Morpheus
8 years ago
Reply to  DeNihilist

More science about the sexes differences – http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-hardwired-difference-between-male-and-female-brains-could-explain-why-men-are-better-at-map-reading-8978248.html Ha. Too funny. Aunt Giggles has a new post up today on sex differences but didn’t mention anything about “why men are better at map reading”…..she only focused on the things the female brain is “better” at. One thing I’ve observed about her is she is extremely adept at citing some scientific study, but only cherrypicking out of context the very narrow points that bolster her views and agenda, and if and when you go and read the study, it is almost too funny all the stuff she didn’t mention in a… Read more »

earl
earl
8 years ago

Birth control alone is the reason why women have the ability to go all gangbang whenever they want. Remove the biggest consequence of sex for a woman (pregnancy)…it can be all holds bar for her. Women should of never had control of their fertility other than what her body naturally does.

Red Hurricane
Red Hurricane
8 years ago

@livingtree2013

I think a big difference between how beta men and typical women approach relationships is the the assumption that you can freely revoke your pledge. Most women reserve and exercise that right. Most (beta) men do not. The unfairness of the situation leads to a lot of frustration and resentment.

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
8 years ago
Jeremy
8 years ago

@LT As I said, you don’t seem willing to make a commitment to a man. That’s not a failing any more than being a PUA or MGTOW is evil. However, I can’t be intellectually honest if I only decide to look at the world through the eyes of a MGTOW and declare all marriage as slavery, or through the eyes of a 3rd gen feminist and declare all marriage as prostitution. I have to consider that other people are willing to commit to each other, and there is good in that despite stories like in Rollos post here. Furthermore, I… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
8 years ago

“if you want a landing strip,

you better get ripped”

LMFAO!

Jeremy
8 years ago

I’m curious, LT. I don’t think you’ve ever even touched the real point of this post by Rollo. Since we seem to be at a point of agreement with each other… What are your thoughts on the possibility of negotiated desire? What are your thoughts on saving your best commitment-assets for those you commit to?

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Hmm. Well that’s complicated to answer Jeremy. I’ve definitely saved the best for the man I’ve “committed” to (I use the term loosely because we aren’t in agreement on it yet), but that’s not to say that I wasn’t adventurous with men prior to him. I just didn’t feel like I WANTED to be fully liberated with any of my priors, because… they didn’t really deserve it. I used to think that it was because I was an inhibited person, but after much self-awareness, I now understand that it had everything to do with trust. I can honestly state now,… Read more »

jsr
jsr
8 years ago

” And were it only about one side of women’s pluralistic sexual strategy (Alpha Fucks & Beta Bucks) they might have a point, but it’s the other half of the Hypergamic equation, the part that requires long term male provisioning paired with emotional investment that sets men’s short term sexual appetites apart from women’s short term Hypergamy.”

Please elaborate more on this in explicit detail.

MNL
MNL
8 years ago

Great post. The comment count alone up to this point reveals how much this issue hits a male nerve. But in regards to some commenters here recommending this guy game his wife to help turn things around… I don’t expect it works quite like that–at least not in this extreme a case. To be clear, I’m a big fan of married game. At the very least, game is about self-improvement regardless of outcome. Moreover, and in an otherwise healthy relationship, it can revive sexual attraction. But in this story here, I suspect there’s a whole lot more going on. There… Read more »

8to12
8 years ago

@sunshinemary said: Is that really true? Would it really be okay with you to see your hypothetical wife on video doing that kind of thing if she were also happy to do it with you, too? You’ve completely missed the point. A man in her past got her BEST. Her husband got her GOOD ENOUGH. The problem isn’t that she has been with other men. Her actions have made it clear that (in her eyes) her husband is INFERIOR to those other men. Ego wise, this is a castrating event for the husband. He realizes now that for the past… Read more »

Jeremy
8 years ago

To add on to 8to12’s excellent comment… From the opposite perspective, ladies, try to imagine this. Try to imagine you married a seemingly not-so-rich man, committed everything to him, gave him sex whenever he wanted, gave him meals whenever he needed food, etc…etc, all because you loved him and he convinced you that he loved you and wanted to give you all he had. You dealt with his lack of high income because you believed in him and believed he could start earning significant amounts of money if he kept working hard. Now imagine that 7 years into the marriage,… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

Yes totally Jeremy, it is a deception of the same magnitude. But I hope I’m not the only woman to say that if the situation were reversed, and my husband wouldn’t give me sexual pleasure but I found out he had this crazy sexual background that he was withholding from me, I’d be just as pissed as I imagine he would (and should!) be if I were withholding from him that I had received an inheritance from my wealthy grandparents. Because marriage is about sharing, and if you don’t trust the person you’re with, how can you feel good about… Read more »

Sal Ceech
Sal Ceech
8 years ago

Any encounter from a ONS to a 50 yr plus marriage has the one element in common.It has to have mutuality and beneficial.The only unconditional love that exits is from parent to child.

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago

This post and its comments have inspired me quite a bit today, because cuckolding is now a de facto assumption. She’s either gonna slut herself before you marry her, or after you marry her….so read 15 years to Life: http://redpillpushers.wordpress.com/2013/12/04/15-years-to-life/

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Similar topics, different approaches.
Good learnin’ fer all, ah say. I focused moreso on bargaining power years vs. lifetime alimony.

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Here’s my question/thought:

If you’re not first to the Motherland when she’s 15 or so, there’s really no way to avoid cuckolding, is there?

YOHAMI
8 years ago

Jeremy, for an advocate, and most girls are advocates, “understanding” means accepting. Pushing and advocate so they “understand” means, for them, forcing them to accept. Which is why this one in particular doesnt want to give in. The reality of this subject goes against her own interests, and she just wishes the whole thing was confusing, so nobody would really “understand” it, thus, it would be pushed aside, and her own ideology could cover that space. The subject of this post doesnt need a thousand pages or repeating the premises and circling around the obvious. She doesnt want to “understand”… Read more »

YaReally
8 years ago

“At age 50+, I might be an old guy, but in the general population i.e., outside of internet apocrypha, not a whole of women are seriously into engaging in threesomes”

You’d be surprised. This ain’t the 50s with a scandalous kiss snuck between shy virgins at the school sock hop anymore.

Jeremy
8 years ago

I’m not trying to create a justification for how men feel Yohami, that would be pointless.

I’m trying to generate understanding via anecdote.

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
8 years ago

Treebeard; those opposed to women’s reproductive freedom are conservative, christian, anti-marxist, and the most ardent opponents of any sort of communal responsibility. These beliefs are all directly tied together, around the construct of property rights, and all of them stem from the right of paternity and patrilineage. Well no, do what you please. Coool. But don’t expect to do it on my coin. I worked dam hard for it. “Communal responsibility”? What’s that when it’s at home? Sounds like “collective punishment” to me. A woman’s prized virginity is really about men’s need for paternity, and paternity is a property right.… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Tam the Bam

Oh jesus… Tam, wtf. You went off the political rails again.

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ YaReally “At age 50+, I might be an old guy, but in the general population i.e., outside of internet apocrypha, not a whole of women are seriously into engaging in threesomes” You’d be surprised. This ain’t the 50s with a scandalous kiss snuck between shy virgins at the school sock hop anymore. Agreed. I think many guys would be truly surprised what is possible (or even common), if they just let go of limiting beliefs, remained non-judgmental, and actively tried to make things happen. The problem is that many guys are so constrained with social brainwashing and individual hang-ups… Read more »

Morpheus
8 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Jeremy

The problem is that many guys are so constrained with social brainwashing and individual hang-ups that they don’t push the limitsand go for what they really want. Dr. Jeremy, What you see though from some is an attempt to conflate *pushing the limits” with actual sexual assault/rape. I can only think this is done in an intentional attempt to blur the lines and make anything else besides “enthusiastic consent” tantamount to rape. My fellow JFG blogger Han Solo might have some thoughts on this. I covered this in a couple posts http://www.justfourguys.com/sexual-escalation-whats-a-guy-supposed-to-do/ http://www.justfourguys.com/sexual-escalation-addendum/ I may do a third post at… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
8 years ago

The direct female correlation to what this man experienced would be if he secretly had a hidden family with many children (with hidden memorabilia), gave his fortune to them before he remarried as a pauper, had a secret vasectomy (even though his wife was desperate for children) and downgraded his job and only worked to maintain a subsistence level despite previously being a high flying banker.

How many women would be happy with that?

deti
deti
8 years ago

Yohami:

Nailed it. As a further observation, it’s a neverending source of fascination to me how many women will simply gloss over men’s feelings, wants, needs and desires. It’s as if men’s participation in a relationship, from a ONS to a 50 year marriage, is completely unimportant. What men want, need and desire from a relationship is always an afterthought, a secondary or tertiary concern.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  deti

Just curious Deti – do you ever really ask for what you want? Or is it just assumed she’ll know. I ask in all seriousness, because I’ve found with the men I’ve dated in the past (prior to this one anyway), and women I associate tell me the same, they almost never talk about their needs. And as a matter of interest, I’ve had a surprising number of male friends and colleagues admit as much. I’m sure there are all sorts of messed up reasons for that too, social conditioning and feminine imperative and whatever else, but as the saying… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

“Women think they want the truth, but they never want full disclosure.” So? Why let that stop you? Who the hell wants full disclosure anyway? NO-one wants it, it sucks hearing the truth, but how can you have a real relationship when you are suppressing the truth?? As Gloria Steinem said: “The truth will set you free. But first it will piss you off.” Anyway, I’m glad you’re trying to help men to get over that, but seriously, your words really convey how habituated you are to letting your idealization of someone else’s importance dictate the terms of your life… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
8 years ago

OK then, sparky, explain the concept of ” communal responsibility” to me. Real slow like.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Tam the Bam

Tam, really, communal responsibility is something you need explained to you?

Jeremy
8 years ago

@YOHAMI

Jeremy, for an advocate, and most girls are advocates, “understanding” means accepting.

If that is so, and I don’t like to sell people short, then LT falls short of the mark of an educated mind.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

well I thank you Jeremy for sparing me the harshness of rash judgement that your peers are inclined to mete out. I am more than capable of understanding a thought without accepting it. I am incapable, however, of accepting a thought without understanding it.

Jeremy
8 years ago

@livingtree2013

…but as the saying goes, “Silence is consent.”

Now if only that worked in criminal cases…

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

If only Jeremy! So many instances where that would be nice. (I’m sure I know already which cases you refer to).

YOHAMI
8 years ago

Jeremy, advocating vs truth seeking, its really a matter of preference. There are lot of well educated and sharp advocates, and LT is one of the most articulated women I’ve encountered around lately. She has the brain power to see the point, she just doesnt want the point to be made, which is a completely different thing.

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago

Male Wastes of Time:

1) Arguing with a woman
2) Thinking you’ll get a woman to see or care about a man’s perspective on anything
3) Listening to a woman talk about “what relationships are really like”
4) Forgetting solipsism: “It’s not true for me, therefore it can’t be true at all.”
5) Thinking that she’ll ever say anything that doesn’t amount to, “No, no, see, it’s different when I do it. I’m not like those girls.”

A Definite Beta Guy
8 years ago

Livingtree,

Perhaps the reason men don’t talk about it, is the same your woman friends assume silence is consent: you don’t really care.

Jeremy
8 years ago

I want to let this rest, mostly because if I continue this conversation with Yohami it will go way off topic.

The basic response I would have is this:

Rollo believes in an open-comment policy, because people will hang themselves.

No one need supply the rope, but the audience needs to exist. Further, when latent challenges to the intellect are experienced, the mind is poked into improving. In short, I believe the mind can be prodded into thinking, and if my prods seem sharp and painful, then I’ve done my job.

deti
deti
8 years ago

To amplify Yohami’s point, LT probably understands that men are repulsed by the woman’s misrepresentation and fraud. She was clearly holding out on her husband. LT doesn’t want to accept this. She chooses not to distinguish between “is” and “ought”. Men are all around her telling her “it is this way”. But LT won’t accept this. She continues to pound away, saying “but it SHOULDN’T be this way!” As Yohami says, LT is advocating for an ideological position; not trying to find out the truth and accept it for what it is. LT does not want to accept it. She… Read more »

YOHAMI
8 years ago
Reply to  deti

Jeremy, kudos to you for maintaining a sharp and honest discussion here for all that matters. You’re not dealing with an equal.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  deti

Um, what the fuck are you talking about Deti? Would you please do me the kindness of picking out in my comments where I have done anything that you just said. Specifics, please.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  deti

Deti, if you’re referring to my views on marriage, I don’t doubt at all “how it is”. I’m very aware of “how it is”. I just don’t want any part of it. I think I have the freedom to make that decision for myself. And I’m sure I’ll get what I deserve, which may well be nothing. I’m totally fine with that. As are you free to make your own choices. I’m not here to judge. If you want to marry for a trade-exchange, and you want a woman to sell you access to her body in exchange for free… Read more »

Corey
Corey
8 years ago

@ livingtree2013 “We grow up learning, by so many means, that women who are sexually active are undesirable to men as long-term mates. What we see is proof, everywhere, that women who are comfortable with their sexuality are… alone. So if women want to find said mate, we better not display sexual desire, especially not any wild stuff. So this is why they hide it.” Hiding her sexual desires would be understandable, but if this guy expressed his desire for raunchy sex and she repeatedly declined, then the fear of slut shaming is no longer a legitimate excuse, because by… Read more »

Jeremy
8 years ago

@Shaman

…hence the explosion of “chick porn” (romance novels), that, by the way, rake in far more revenue than online porn according to the book.

Sorry I missed that nugget Shaman. It appears I am in the wrong industry.

Tin Man
Tin Man
8 years ago

@YOHAMI “After seeing all this worthless back and forth with LT I came to realize it doesnt matter. I dont care if a woman, or women in general, can sympathize or not with this guys feelings. Its an interest exercise but pushing it is pointless. This is how men feel and its not going to change. The reasons and whys men feel this way are out there to explore, if any woman wants to understand these things, but really, it doesnt matter.” You’re right, the back and forth doesn’t matter. I’m glad Rollo has an open comment area, and he… Read more »

Christian_Caveman
Christian_Caveman
8 years ago

I have thought (and prayed) long and hard over this scenario, putting myself in his shoes. I have tried to envision forgiveness (that would lead to a dead marriage at best, or divorce on her terms, as she finds a less wary schlub). I have tried to envision putting the woman out for a time until she is repentant, as described in Ezekiel, but there is no desert or gnashing darkness in the era of SNAP and “modern” domestic disturbance laws. There is almost no way to MAP against internal revulsion of a woman. The idea of “open marriage” would… Read more »

BC
BC
8 years ago

LT: the gift that keeps on giving.

Tin Man
Tin Man
8 years ago

@Christian_Caveman Curious what you are thinking… First of all – Divorce is a sin, IF you have sex outside of marriage, that is the sin If you Divorce, and the reason for that divorce was not her adultery, and it something that YOU want because you want another woman OR you divorce and then remarry – that is a sin, because you are in actuality still married “in God’s eyes” to the first wife. And all this is based upon the belief of what Paul wrote – Jesus was fairly silent about this whole area. There was a saying in… Read more »

Luis
Luis
8 years ago

LIVE YOUR DREAM, NOT SOMEONE ELSE’S DREAM. MOVE FORWARD WITH ONLY YOUR FOCUS.

Tin Man
Tin Man
8 years ago

Sorry, typo….

Meant to say “Divorce is NOT a sin”

deti
deti
8 years ago

If there’s anything I would hope women get from reading this thread and comments, it’s this: Your N matters. Telling the truth about your N matters. We want your best. A husband is entitled to your best. If you’re not willing to give your best, then you shouldn’t marry. Men have feelings, wants, needs and desires; and they are important. If you don’t care about those feelings, wants, needs and desires, you should not marry.

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago

As one who tries to faithfully do God’s Will, it appears that the mere air of threat would accomplish more than any entreaty to the heart, mind, or soul. Excitement, fear, arousal, and obedience, all from displaying a willingness to ignore the law. But how would a self-professed Christian obtain authority over this situation when the other party does really recognize said authority?

These are your problems:

1) Thinking that there’s a difference between Christian women and non-Christian women.

2) Thinking that self-professed Christian women are actually interested in what Jesus or the Bible have to say.

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

“After all, a girl who’s comfortable having raunchy sex with five guys she barely knows, should be comfortable having raunchy sex with her husband”

Not if it causes her to lose the upper hand in the power dynamic of the relationship…

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ Morpheus, There are many attempts at social engineering to redistribute power and influence for various purposes. The problem with these attempts, however, is that they often run up against biological reality and sex differences. For example: But what if desire does not precede arousal? That’s what University of British Columbia psychiatrist Rosemary Basson, M.D., discovered in interviews with hundreds of women. Contrary to the conventional model, for many women, desire is not the cause of lovemaking, but rather, its result. “Women,” Basson explains, “often begin sexual experiences feeling sexually neutral.” But as things heat up, so do they, and… Read more »

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago

Erotica author says that she never loved her husband like she does now, after he started tying her up and beating her:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/04/bdsm-marriage_n_4387166.html?ref=topbar

FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
8 years ago

“As Yohami says, LT is advocating for an ideological position; not trying to find out the truth and accept it for what it is. ” “If there’s anything I would hope women get from reading this thread and comments, it’s this: Your N matters. Telling the truth about your N matters. We want your best. A husband is entitled to your best. If you’re not willing to give your best, then you shouldn’t marry. Men have feelings, wants, needs and desires; and they are important. If you don’t care about those feelings, wants, needs and desires, you should not marry.”… Read more »

Kate
Kate
8 years ago

“Me: I would have been perfectly fine if you told me…” Somehow I doubt that. Your wife could not trust you to truly know her for fear of rejection. You couldn’t handle the truth (Victoria’s secret). Now that you know, things could be different. It was wrong to lie, and your ego has sustained a serious blow. I don’t want to downplay your anguish or minimize what she did. But, as time passes and things cool down, I advise you to consider her conduct as a wife and mother over the years, her sincerity in being willing to do anything… Read more »

Jeremy
8 years ago

@Kate

Your wife could not trust you to truly know her for fear of rejection. You couldn’t handle the truth (Victoria’s secret)… Consider her motivation for the lie: was it to manipulate you, or was it to protect you?

Fundamental impasse. You are justifying insulting the intelligence of your man. You are justifying lying to someone you’ve committed yourself to in order to preserve a situation favorable to you. If a woman can’t trust me with some knowledge about her, she’s going to be NEXT’d.

Don’t insult the intelligence of your mate.

Aaron
Aaron
8 years ago

@livingtree2013 If you read the original thread, you will see that he didn’t take issue with her past. He would certainly be within his rights in assigning whatever weight to her past, but didn’t assign any so really he is doing everything that a modern progressive man is supposed to be doing. This makes it an ideal demonstration of the not very well publicized but very real limits of what betas can expect when they do everything “right” (scarequotes). You can check all the provider boxes, you can even check check all the right ideological boxes in relation to feminism,… Read more »

Kate
Kate
8 years ago

“A husband is entitled to your best. If you’re not willing to give your best, then you shouldn’t marry. Men have feelings, wants, needs and desires; and they are important. If you don’t care about those feelings, wants, needs and desires, you should not marry.” That is asking a lot of the average (or below average) woman. Women are supposed to turn down advantageous marriages to men who want to be with them instead of being honorably single? When funny, educated men that you just aren’t attracted to want to buy you houses, its a moral dilemma. It takes a… Read more »

YOHAMI
8 years ago
Reply to  Kate

Rollo, aint Argentina lovely.

Deti
Deti
8 years ago

Kate :

If she didn’t trust him, she shouldn’t have married him.

And she is the one who needs to change, not him.

HanSolo
8 years ago

@Morpheus and Dr. Jeremy

When extreme rules or laws about escalation, and the need for enthusiastic written consent, are put in place, it effectively makes the playing field that much harder for the average and lower guys to escalate. Meanwhile the Tom Brady alphas can get away with boob grabs from grateful and eager recipients.

This is just one more way to protect hypergamous women from the unwanted advances of non-top males, the kind they don’t get enthusiastic about.

Deti
Deti
8 years ago

Haha Kate. At least you’re honest. I also find it disgusting that you’re here justifying what this woman did.

hansolo007
8 years ago

Here’s the Tom Brady SNL skit:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f76_1323277426

deti
deti
8 years ago

“When funny, educated men that you just aren’t attracted to want to buy you houses, its a moral dilemma. It takes a lot of fortitude to say no.”

Bullshit. It’s not a moral dilemma. The only moral choice is to decline.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised — a couple of women show up to defend and justify the woman’s conduct. I should have known this would happen.

deti
deti
8 years ago

Her “conduct as a wife and mother over the years” and her “general integrity of character” includes lying, frauding her way into the marriage, continuing the fraud during the course of the marriage, about a matter integral to whether a true marriage even exists. Compounding this is the fact that she held out on him sexually.

So, yes, he most definitely should consider her “conduct as a wife” and her “general integrity of character”.

redpillsetmefree
redpillsetmefree
8 years ago

Mark, Mark, Mark, what’re you fucking doing to yourself brother? Oh this is that Kate. I see. Did you just skip over the part about her keeping this video for at least 7 years or did your solipsism force that bit of uncomfortable info out of your head before it registered? Bingo. The fact that it happened. The fact that she kept it from him. The fact that she enjoyed it. The fact that she is not attracted to him. The fact that she takes full benefits as a wife, but doesn’t give him full benefits in return. The fact… Read more »

hobbitholedweller
8 years ago

Ok, I’ll “bring it on” @livingtree2013. Just like me, this guy deserves everything he’s got coming. We believed the lie that “this one is special” and we won’t be the 50% that get divorced (and the 50% that don’t, how many are even remotely happy with their marriage?). I will probably lose $800,000 in my divorce to my frigid wife who earned almost nothing and we have no children. Any man who marries a WESTERN woman in this current environment has to know that the cards and odds are stacked against them dramatically. Enter the church. You are an immoral… Read more »

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ HanSolo This is just one more way to protect hypergamous women from the unwanted advances of non-top males, the kind they don’t get enthusiastic about. Actually, taken to the extreme it disempowers all men from making any advances, even the top ones. It would make all men have to wait to be enthusiastically chosen, or else face heavy consequences for being “wrong”. There is also another factor to consider…it would potentially change the power dynamic among women too. Currently, the attractive women have more choice and control, because more men approach and escalate with them. But, if men are… Read more »

HanSolo
8 years ago

@Dr. Jeremy Yes, taken to the extreme, it would disempower top men as well, though they would still be approached much more than women, as we saw in the OkCupid experiment highlighted at heartiste. But the key point is that it isn’t taken to the extreme and, as currently practiced, it does act as I described and as seen in the SNL clip: less attractive men will bear the brunt of any enforcement of the “enthusiastic consent” for approaching or escalating because they aren’t wanted by hypergamous women and the top men will be welcomed and, at heart, the women… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

Is Victoria’s secret the fact that she’s a filthy whore, or an opportunistic manipulator?

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ deti Bullshit. It’s not a moral dilemma. The only moral choice is to decline. I personally agree and try to conduct my own behavior accordingly. However, I also recognize that others I interact with may not be choosing to follow the same rules of conduct that I do. Also, there are no longer the strong, universal, social, religious, and moral sources to enforce that everyone follows those rules and does what is truly moral, just, and fair. So, we can talk about ways to possibly re-instill such universal morality. We can even discuss how to possibly find, test, and… Read more »

YaReally
8 years ago

@Dr. Jeremy “Actually, taken to the extreme it disempowers all men from making any advances, even the top ones. It would make all men have to wait to be enthusiastically chosen, or else face heavy consequences for being “wrong”.” No, because women instinctively know what alphas know: that rules don’t apply to alphas. Alphas will continue to break the rules because of their sense of entitlement that they EXPECT to be allowed to break the rules, and breaking those rules will help women determine which men are alphas, and attract them. Women know that even if there was some legal… Read more »

HanSolo
8 years ago

YaReally

Exactly, they fear fucking the male equivalent of a fatty. lol

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ HanSolo & YaReally To be more precise Han…they do it to avoid mating with their own male SMV equivalent. Changing the power structure allows more of them to mate-up (i.e. hypergamy). Of course, the lower SMV the woman, the more she benefits. The high SMV women, however, who used to be able to secure commitment from a high SMV man – now only wait in line for their quick turn too. So, holding all of the power and choice makes all women more-or-less equal…giving them all a turn with the best…which ends up benefiting the low, while costing the… Read more »

HanSolo
8 years ago

@Dr. J. Yeah, I agree that many women these days are avoiding men of equal value. It’s interesting how in online dating, most of the time a woman messages a man first, it’s some guy that’s 1-3 points out of her league, and they think–or hope–that they have a chance beyond a mere pump and dump. As men, though, I don’t think we realize what it must be like in the wild west mating of today, getting hit on by guys that are 1 or 2 points higher. Imagine if women 1 or 2 or even 3 points higher were… Read more »

BlackPoisonSoul
8 years ago

@Mark – Jesus man, wake the fuck up! Don’t live in denial! On the whole: I find it hilarious that Kate considers the theft of a man’s money (buying her a house) to be a “moral dilemma”. Perhaps she can pay off a quarter-million-dollar-property at the equivalent of one $100 sex-act at a time, then her conscience will be clear. ‘Course, that’s the long view. It’d be faster and easier to marry then divorce and collect her well-deserved cash and prizes. After all, she never loved him and so every sexual act was an act of deep humiliation. Having to… Read more »

Matthew King
Matthew King
8 years ago

I could have been clearer. Maybe I should have emphasized the low class aspect of this phenomenon more. Of course these things happen! But it happens with a certain kind of woman with a certain kind of background far more often than it does with women in general. If we are talking about hood rats and trailer trash, that is a whole different story so far from my world that it is irrelevant. And even if you want to just reduce the sample to high-value women, the point remains that this kind of slutwife surprise is markedly less-occurring. But, like… Read more »

Matthew King
Matthew King
8 years ago

YaReally sagely informed this benighted audience: “At age 50+, I might be an old guy, but in the general population i.e., outside of internet apocrypha, not a whole of women are seriously into engaging in threesomes” You’d be surprised. This ain’t the 50s with a scandalous kiss snuck between shy virgins at the school sock hop anymore. Oh for fucksake. This is how deluded you imagine your critics are? That they don’t notice what decade they are in? Could a person who isn’t stuck in the last millennium possibly call bullshit on your exaggerated assertions? Witness how absurdly you have… Read more »

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