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To start off today’s topic I thought I’d repost a Red Pill reddit thread I received a link-back to last week. Rather than give you my own summary of this guy’s situation, I felt the impact would be more significant by posting it in its entirety; and also because I don’t believe the guy really got a fair hearing on his original post.

I posted this earlier on another subreddit but it ended up getting removed because of fighting in the comments. I’ll sum up what happened thus far. I met my wife 7 years ago, she was extremely picky when it came to sex. She told me she only has been with 1 other guy before. She would never give a blow job, only would do certain positions and found almost every sex act degrading. I was frustrated by this, but I really liked her and hoped over the years she would open up sexually. Over the years, it never got any better but I learned to get over it. Well I ended up finding an old video from her college days of her engaging in group sex with 6 other people 5 guys 1 girl. In the video she has anal sex, oral sex, gets double teamed, and yells multiple times in the video she is a “I am a filthy whore.” All of it she was enthusiastic about it. I ended up feeling really sad. I can understand certain stuff people don’t want to do, but it wasn’t the fact she didn’t want to do them. She didn’t want to do them with me but every other guy she was their whore. I was angry hurt and I ended up saying some stupid shit to my wife.

I asked her if she could drop our daughter off at her sister’s house because I wanted to talk to her. She asked why, I told her we’d discuss after she came back.

I don’t remember all the details of the conversation, so I’ll try my best to sum it up. I was drinking a bit before she came which wasn’t the best idea.

Me: Is there anything about your past you have been hiding about me?

Her: Why are we talking about this?

Me: I just want to know were you in any type of porn or anything like that?

Her: are you taking drugs?

Me: I found your video from college with the other guys. I don’t know who you are anymore and I feel ill being around you.

She starts crying.

Me: Do you have anything to say?

She continues to cry. This was pointless I go to grab my keys to leave. And she tries to stop me.

Me: If you don’t want me to leave then I need you to be 100% honest with me, and tell me why you lied to me for all these years.

She: I didn’t want you to think I was a slut

Me: I would have been perfectly fine if you told me, I would have loved to have done those wild things with you. Look I get it I don’t turn you on like those other guys do. You liked sucking their dicks but not mine.

She: It’s not that, I didn’t want you to think less of me.

Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.

She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.

Me: I don’t want you to do it because you feel like you have to. I want someone that actually desires me.

She: I can change I promise don’t ruin our marriage over this we can work things out. We can go to marriage counseling seriously talk to me.

Me: Marriage counseling won’t change how you feel about me. Look I will try marriage counseling but I want a trial separation for now.

She: Please don’t do this. Don’t throw away our marriage for what I did in college please.

Me: Stop fucking acting like it’s a one time thing. Be honest with me how many guys did you fuck before me. How many guys dicks have you sucked, and how many guys have you let fuck you in the ass.

She: why does it matter, I said I’ll do them with you

Me: I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.

She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change.

Me: I am not divorcing you but I want a trial separation for now, and I want to see how things go, right now I feel sick looking at you.

I ended up leaving my wife kept trying to stop me. She kept on begging saying I could do anything I wanted with her, it was truly pathetic and I lost all respect for my wife the way she was trying to manipulate me with sex.

I am staying at a motel right now; I have been getting constant calls from my wife. She has been asking me where I am, if I tell her than she is going to confront me and I don’t feel like I am ready for that. I feel so fucking drained. I feel bad saying those things to my wife but I don’t know what else to do I am so fucking hurt over this.

As I said before I wouldn’t care if she had a promiscuous past, seriously, wouldn’t care but the fact she did all those things for other guys but doesn’t do them for me hurts me the deepest.

I don’t see how this marriage can be recovered. I can’t change her attraction to me. My father has recently has been diagnosed with a tumor in his lung, and that has already been stressing me out pretty badly.

Please tell me what exactly I can do, my confidence as a man has been destroyed. Before I found out about this, I tried to get my wife to open up sexually but she completely shot it down. I really believe she isn’t attracted to me in the way she was to those other guys. That’s why she felt completely fine being “their whore” but won’t give me a blow job. I want a woman that looks at me lustfully, not that has sex with me to fulfill “wifey duties.”

I don’t feel entitled to other types of sex with my wife. I want her to want to do them. Now even if she does do them it will be out of guilt, not out of desire. I don’t see how we can recover our marriage. I feel really shitty that I won’t be able to seem my daughter as much, especially during her younger years.

I have already made some calls to reroute my paychecks and get my finances in order if we do go for a divorce. My brother works at a big law firm, I am thinking about contacting him to at least see what I should be doing now. Thing is once I call him it becomes the point of no return, if I tell my family members than their image of my wife becomes destroyed. Also I’d have to check because right now she is dependent on me for health insurance, and I don’t want her to be deprived of that if we do divorce, because she has been having health issues. I don’t want to ruin anything but I can’t see how things would ever be okay. If you don’t have any advice for me and are just going to be judgmental please don’t waste your time commenting. I know I said some hurtful things in there but you don’t know the level of hurt I am feeling right now. I have apologized to my wife since then, but I don’t see how our relationship can be recovered.

Edit – I want to make things work, between me and my wife. I understand she doesn’t want to do certain sex acts. I am considering proposing to her the idea of an open marriage. That way we can still be together as a family and we both can have the fulfilling sex lives we want.

There’s a lot going on in this situation, but I think the first thing that should be addressed here is that, personally, I think these sorts of past life revelations are a lot more common than most men are comfortable in admitting. I wish I could say this was the first time I’ve ever encountered a story like his — it’s actually the 7th time, and four of those were personal accounts from men I’ve counseled.

As our culture becomes more technologically adept, electronic records – whether they’re ‘self-shots’, incriminating GNO pics uploaded to various forms of social media, male-stripper party videos, or amateur / semi-pro pornography – will have an increasingly greater role in filling the pieces of the puzzle that constitutes a woman’s relational and sexual past. The real problem will cease to be doing any actual detective work, and more about what a (Beta) man will allow himself to believe about his ‘special snowflake’ in contrast to the gestalt knowledge of women’s behaviors on whole.

There was a recent article posted on Return of Kings by Emmanuel Goldstein detailing the Game necessity of presuming all women are sluts. In light of stories like this it’s hard not to see the pragmatism in that, but at least when you are single, Game-aware and spinning plates you have the luxury and (should have) the foresight to know that even the Good Girls ‘Do’ have the inclination to go feral with the hot Alpha in the foam cannon party in Cancun on Spring Break when she’s in the proliferative phase of her ovulatory cycle.

Predictably, I’m sure the “ooh, ooh men do it too!” wing of the critics gallery will be the first to cry foul, as they ever have, about my drawing attention to the feral dynamics of sexual side of feminine hypergamy. And were it only about one side of women’s pluralistic sexual strategy (Alpha Fucks & Beta Bucks) they might have a point, but it’s the other half of the Hypergamic equation, the part that requires long term male provisioning paired with emotional investment that sets men’s short term sexual appetites apart from women’s short term Hypergamy.

The Best of Her

The author of this reddit thread is feeling the sharp end of that Hypergamic equation. While I’m sure there will be every effort made to paint this man’s wife as some fucked up, emotionally damaged, and conveniently, sexually abused victim (we don’t know this, but that was the default association in the comments of his original thread), the operative I’m driving at here isn’t about her individualized experiences, but the methodology she and all women use to justify their sexual pluralism.

Prior to the advent of technologies that could evidentially prove women’s sexual exploits (often proudly so now) the more visceral aspects of a woman’s sexuality, and the inconvenient hindbrain/hormonal prompts that motivate them, could be kept secret well enough to deceive a man with provisioning potential to commit to the long term security the other half of her Hypergamy demands. As the technology to record this becomes more ubiquitous, more permanent and fluid in its use, as men become more interconnected by it, and as women enjoy more self-affirmation from it, rationalizing her past indiscretions becomes more of an imperative.

Men saturated and conditioned over the better half of their lifetime by the feminine imperative to be the convenient cuckolds to women’s Hypergamy – men like the author of this confession – have an ego-invested interest in presuming the woman they pair with will be “giving him the best of herself” once his ship comes in and all of his patience and equalist beliefs finally pay off.

Only, men like this discover too late, usually well after they realize their commitment has hamstrung their SMV peak potential, that not only have they been a retroactive cuckold (sometimes even moralistically proud to be so), but they’ve been socially conditioned to be one, by their mothers, their emasculated fathers, their sisters, female friends, teachers and the whole of the feminine imperative’s effort for most of their lives.

One of the reasons I, and most of the manosphere, receive so much scorn from plugged-in, feminine primary society is that we risk to expose this process. This author’s story is the inconvenient truth of a pluralistic feminine sexual strategy. Women’s capacity to cash out of the SMP, to raise children, to create a semblance of a family life so conflicted with her single life, on what she thinks should be her terms, all rides on keeping men with a long term provisioning potential (greater Betas) ignorant of their pre-cuckolding and the conditioning that took so long to convince them would be their responsibility.

I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.

The primary reason men become preoccupied with women’s sexual past is rooted in ‘getting the best’ she has to offer him sexually. There is certainly more aspects to this (fidelity, secure attachment, etc.), but as I’ve stated before, all men want a slut, they just want her to be HIS slut. Once the belief that he’s getting the best sex she has to offer him is dispelled, viscerally and definitively, the nature of the Desire Dynamic comes into sharp focus.

I Want You to Want Me

Naturally, once a woman’s true sexual capacity is revealed after the establishment of her normalized, married sexuality, her first impetus is to preserve the provisioning she enjoyed while ‘her secret’ was working for her.

Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.

She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.

[…] She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change

What we’re reading here is the script for negotiated desire. Her real desire isn’t for his satisfaction or any real resolution for the deception of her sexual pluralism, but rather a solipsistic maintaining of a normalcy for herself. Our author has no other rationalizations to fall back on, denial of his conditions are no longer sufficient, and he begins to realize a cruel red pill truth – you cannot negotiate genuine desire.

He wants her to want him, he wants her to desire sex with him with the same verve and enthusiasm she did with other men in her videos. He wants her sexual best, but her 7 years of unwillingness to give him that while enjoying the benefits of his provisioning, his patience, love and perseverance only puts her strategy, the Hypergamic strategy, into perfect focus. Her genuine desire, her sexual best was never intended for him in the first place.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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BC
BC
8 years ago

Ah, and Matt the Queen, too. Another gift that keeps on giving.

Put him together with LT and you’ve got a standing ovation.

YaReally
8 years ago

@King <3 "My point was, the higher a girl’s sexual market value the less slutty/depraved she has to act to gain the same sexual attention." The part you don't get is that they WANT to act like that. They just can't, because society will judge them and they don't want to scare off their long-term significant others. But they WANT to do that shit. A lot of them. Even the high-SMV women. You would know that if you fucked or even associated with them outside of your fantasy land. They want it the same way you want to be the… Read more »

Kate
Kate
8 years ago

Its not justification, gents. Its called “empathy.” Remember the post? Putting yourself in someone else’s situation. It goes both ways and its good practice. Push your understanding further. It doesn’t mean you have to accept or allow poor behavior; it means you make your knowledge power. Matt is right in that many of you don’t know any better. Some of us do. Some of us are. And those moral decisions are clear cut and straightforward. But for others, they may not be. Deti, you were just laying in wait for someone to jump on. See how you materialized that which… Read more »

YOHAMI
8 years ago

Matt, the higher a girl’s sexual market value the less slutty/depraved she has to act to gain the same sexual attention. The fallacy is putting slutty and depraved like they are the same. A woman will slut it up (make it easy) to get attention from males she couldnt get otherwise, she will also put up with shit from high value men, and in a lot of cases, will LIKE to put up with shit from high value men. You know, loving the drama of it. Depravity though. 50 shades of grays didnt become a besteller because “it had to”,… Read more »

earl
earl
8 years ago

A woman talking about empathy. Now that’s a laugh.

RPSMF’s list about male waste’s of time earlier is correct.

YOHAMI
8 years ago

Kate, Its called “empathy.” Remember the post? Putting yourself in someone else’s situation. Right, so its very hard for a man who’s at a teens girl camp not to fuck all of them. Lets apply some “empathy”. The house thing and committing fraud is not a moral dilemma – like there was some kind of puzzle. The choice is to commit an immoral action or not to do it. I can totally understand that a woman would like to prostitute herself for a house, take a hubby she’s not attracted to and cheat on him with the bodyguard. I can… Read more »

earl
earl
8 years ago

It’ll sound obvious…but it needs to be said.

The easiest way to not get caught..is to not do it in the first place.

Once actions get involved it gets a lot more messy.

deti
deti
8 years ago

Kate: It’s not about wanting to “jump” on someone or manufacturing outrage. And your comments have not been about illustrating “moral dilemmas”. Deciding whether or not to marry someone you’re not attracted to because he’ll give you money and a house is not a “moral dilemma”. Marriage fraud which serves the interest of one party but not the other is not a “moral” choice, nor does it present a difficult, “gray area” set of issues which require a lot of grappling with and resolving competing moral interests. It’s simply whether you’re going to choose an immoral course of conduct, or… Read more »

Morpheus
8 years ago
Reply to  deti

But you’re not framing it that way. You’re trying to frame marriage fraud as somehow morally correct and justifiable in some circumstances, probably depending on the woman’s real or perceived needs. You’re trying to frame a cold hearted decision by a woman to flat out use a man as a morally correct act, so long as that serves a perceived “greater good”. I don’t deny that women do this all the time. It is interesting to observe that many women tend to elevate resource provisioning to a level of almost moral need/entitlement. Kate isn’t the first to frame it this… Read more »

deti
deti
8 years ago

And the only way to justify marriage fraud is to present it as one of many “hard” questions of “morality”. “Oh, it’s not cut and dried. See, there are nuances.” “She’s not ALL bad. She is a wife and mom. So this little lie should be excused.” “She needs a man to care for her. She needs a house. There’s a man who she doesn’t love and isn’t attracted to, who is offering marriage and a house. Decisions, decisions. What should she do? This is such a tough moral question. Should she be honest and decline? Or should she lie… Read more »

YOHAMI
8 years ago
Reply to  deti

We always go back to the same. For a woman, moral means “whatever serves my interests the most”. Whatever connections a woman has with the world they pass through the lense of herself. All the factors can be bended but she remains constant. It’s like every woman’s mind is a fallacy: A) Fraud is immoral. B) I am a moral person. C) Committing fraud would benefit me greatly. And here’s the twist: D) Since Im a moral person, the fraud I commit must be moral too C) Fraud is moral. * * * It’s like reading general relativity where the… Read more »

earl
earl
8 years ago

Perhaps her father didn’t get her the Schwinn bike she wanted so bad at age 10…so she took it out on him by getting gangbanged.

Or the serial killer wasn’t hugged enough by his mother…so that’s why he chopped up people to bits.

Those type of “nuances”?

rbrtolson
rbrtolson
8 years ago

My boss was passed out drunk with 10 grand of company money sitting there. What a moral dilemma!

YOHAMI
8 years ago

Thats why we fail at convincing women through logic. The conclusion doent just serve to evaluate reality: it changes their own perception about themselves, which cannot be done unless you address that directly.

Im thinking that strawman is the only possible way to solve this issue. Make it directly about themselves. Its not that your actions are bad, its that “you” are bad. Use shame, rhetorics, not logic. That’s what they are getting about the exchange anyway. That’s why they keep asking “what do you really mean with that” so use it. Women do adapt to shame.

YOHAMI
8 years ago

*I meant ad hominem, not strawman.

earl
earl
8 years ago

“Its not that your actions are bad, its that “you” are bad.”

Yup…defiling actions do come from the heart.

deti
deti
8 years ago

Man: “I want to do this, but I know it’s wrong. I will do it anyway, and suffer the consequences.” Woman: “I want to do this, but I know it’s wrong. Doing this will give me what I want. Therefore, it is right, moral and correct that I get what I want, and this morality outweighs the immorality of my doing something I know is wrong.” Or: “I need something that he has. His giving me what he has will serve my needs. Therefore, it is right, moral and correct that I do whatever I need to do in order… Read more »

earl
earl
8 years ago

Male logic…female logic. Based in cartoon form.

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

“Its called “empathy.” … Putting yourself in someone else’s situation.” Part of the problem we have here, and by extension throughout society, is that women do not make a fair attempt to extend empathy with any sense of equality. Maybe it’s evolutionary (men are expendable), or maybe it’s caused by a lack of imagination (easier for a woman to imagine herself in the lying wife’s shoes)… Much ballyhoo about how women are far more “empathetic” than men (debatable… my gut clenched and blood pressure spiked as I read the story), but their capacity for empathy, and for whom they extend… Read more »

Christian_Caveman
Christian_Caveman
8 years ago

@Tin_Man I believe the only thing that the Christ said to the adulterating woman was, “Go and sin no more.” The sad thing is, there was no follow-up. As Christ’s words are the highest authority, perhaps she was impelled and compelled to obey, and live a good life. Or she still disobeyed, and sought other men out of a different town. A follow-up on that woman would have answered so many questions, even some not even asked here. Since many women do not even really acknowledge that authority today, it does not matter what Paul said. As God’s Laws of… Read more »

deti
deti
8 years ago

Morpheus: Resource provisioning in women’s minds takes on a moral dimension because it satisfies something they need for survival, and that children need for survival. Survival is good. Anything that benefits children is at the absolute pinnacle of today’s “moral” order. We can see this in political rhetoric and in the way our society is ordered. Well, to men, sex is a need. Men need sex because getting it frees them up to do things other than chase tail. In fact, getting sex frees men up to generate resources. Therefore, anything that gives men sex on demand, when they want/need… Read more »

Morpheus
8 years ago

Male logic…female logic. Based in cartoon form.

Ha. Giggles wrote a post on sex brain differences, and there was a discussion about logic in the comments. One of the male commenters had in mind a certain idea of what “logic” means, and one of the female commenters chimed in and flat out stated that female logic is ***contextual*** which translated means the reasoning flows from the feelings in that moment.

deti
deti
8 years ago

And I forgot to include: Women also cast resource provisioning as a moral issue because that shuts down all debate, and casts anyone disagreeing or questioning it as “immoral” and “cold, cruel, and heartless.” Once something is deemed to be “moral” or “right”, that’s the end of it – it simply MUST be done and provided, and YOU must do or provide it. How can any sane, moral, decent human being possibly disagree with or question in any way this “moral” “need”? Disagreement and questioning are immediately shouted down. What women hear is “that man thinks innocent women and children… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

This is directly related to a phenomenon that has been on the rise for decades, which drives me absolutely bonkers: Person A does something patently, self-evidently wrong, which adversely affects person B. Person B gets a little bent out of shape and points it out to person A. Person A then gets MORE bent out of shape over HOW person B pointed it out. Person A looks for things to criticize about person A to “defend themselves”. Things unrelated to the event in question. The debate drags on and on, and after a few exchanges, all person C can tell… Read more »

earl
earl
8 years ago

“One of the male commenters had in mind a certain idea of what “logic” means, and one of the female commenters chimed in and flat out stated that female logic is ***contextual*** which translated means the reasoning flows from the feelings in that moment.”

Makes sense.

Which is why when a man gets into a problem…he tries his best to fix it. When a woman gets into a problem..she stews in her emotions.

Spoos in August
8 years ago

@livingtree: You do know that most slut shaming is done by women as a means of keeping the price of sex high, right?

Men want sex, but they also want surety of paternity. In practical terms, for almost all of human history, that meant knocking up a virgin. If a woman wants to maximize the value of the mate she eventually attracts, she’d do well to minimize her N (or lie about it really well).

“Comfortable with her sexuality” sounds like a nice euphemism for “libertine.”

livingtree2013
8 years ago

Morning gents! I see you’ve been busy over the last 16 hours! I’ve been really enjoying this last spate of comments, I’ve got at least three articles worth of ideas about them, I could barely keep up with the note-taking. Anyway, Spoos, I’d like to answer your question, but it would require me saying some things that would likely blow this forum up in a pretty major way…. and I think you guys would rather just smoke your cigars in the parlour away from women’s views. And plus my answer would give away the premise of what may be the… Read more »

Tin Man
8 years ago

@Christian_Caveman

Somewhat of a hijack, but…
I would also add that those you call Churchians, may read the Bible, but they don’t study it. They listen to what the Priest/Pastor/Preacher says and just take it as “being right”. Most Churches don’t encourage open debate of ideals or varying points of view. Sad really, because at it’s core, the tenants of your religious beliefs become very core to how you “live your life”. Without healthy debate, it is just dogma and in many cases, regurgitated from generation to generation without much thought as to it’s validity.

//end hijack

Vektor
Vektor
8 years ago

“In an ideal world for women, they hold all the power and all the choice and are allowed to make exceptions for whoever they want for whatever reasons they want.”

We are pretty much there now. Power corrupts and a lack of consequences creates bad behavior. Eventually so bad that even the most slow witted nice guy is going to get the message.

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

I can’t believe it, my local talk radio afternoon guy is doing a segment on “did you settle with the person you’re with”, and some lady just called up and told a story about how she found out her man was a child molester, but she ended up staying with him for another 5 years! Do you think she stayed because of her “empathy” for him? Or maybe, just perhaps, because he paid for everything and she was comfortable, didn’t feel like providing for herself, so she conveniently didn’t think about it too much for 5 years. Give her a… Read more »

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[…] Rollo Tomassi posted the following capture from a /r/Redpill thread; like him, I will quote it in full: […]

itsme
itsme
8 years ago

Male Wastes of Time: 1) Arguing with a woman 2) Thinking you’ll get a woman to see or care about a man’s perspective on anything 3) Listening to a woman talk about “what relationships are really like” 4) Forgetting solipsism: “It’s not true for me, therefore it can’t be true at all.” 5) Thinking that she’ll ever say anything that doesn’t amount to, “No, no, see, it’s different when I do it. I’m not like those girls.” not sure i agree with these, brah. i think i just need to read another couple of hundred more posts to convince me.… Read more »

SirNemesis
8 years ago

Late to the party here. Regarding women and empathy, Florence Nightingale was probably correct in that women don’t have sympathy, with the caveat that NAWALT: you say ” women are more sympathetic than men.” Now if I were to write a book out of my experience, I should begin Women have no sympathy. Yours is the tradition. Mine is the conviction of experience. I have never found one woman who has altered her life by one iota for me or my opinions. Now look, at my experience of men. A statesman, past middle age, absorbed in politics for a quarter… Read more »

Tin Man
8 years ago

I just read this over at KrauserPUA.com – he’s taken something out of latest book – but this is exceptional and pretty much on target for the post by Rollo… “Most men are, in carnival terms, rubes. They are easy marks. They have been brought up in a deeply fem-centric world and all of its delusions. They go to work, earn money, pay taxes, buy products, watch TV and have sex with a tiny number of homely women. Dysfunctional as this sounds it’s exactly what the grand meta-narrative of the feminine imperative wants. It’s a feature not a bug. It’s… Read more »

A Definite Beta Guy
8 years ago

Morpheus, The issue with male logic is that we tend to follow that straight-line. Female logic will take into account mitigating factors. However, the proper course for this is advisory, not determining. “You did not do this, you are wrong”-male logic “I’m actually a good person, see I did this other good thing”-female logic It’s emotionally motivated, but it shows you blind-spots. Being self-interested is not necessarily a bad thing: the US legal system is an adversarial one. You simply need to know how the system. Woman-folk logic is a tool. If you use your hammer as a hockey-stick, you’re… Read more »

Jeremy
8 years ago

My god, Kate is a golddigger, who knew? Sounds like a topic for a blog post actually. Apparently according to a manosphere woman it’s ok to fake being in love with someone, while holding out on sex, just to get cash and prizes. Interestingly, it is quite the moral dilemma, but ultimately justifiable by female logic to lie to someone for the good life. Yep, I said it Kate. Your words demonstrate a sincere lack of ethics. Retract the words, denounce their meaning, or keep the label, your choice. Your words justify lying about loving someone for the purpose of… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

By strange coincidence, I’m watching ‘Romeo and Juliet’ right now. Case study: Paris, Juliet’s suitor and the match that everyone in the play attempts to convince her to want to marry. Nice guy, very wealthy, and handsome too, and badly wants her. She does not desire him at all, but he has status and would be a good match, so everyone says! And so her father arranges a marriage for her. So, instead of making the rational decision, marry the good catch nice guy she didn’t desire, she decides instead to alienate everyone in her family, and eventually died. Jeremy… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

I mean, the dilemma of morality over self-interest has not been tempered since Plato’s time. The system is flawed, it is upheld in fact, most especially in the US, which prizes individual self-interest over all other values, by the expectation of acting out of rational self-interest over the contemptible “greater good”. Those that do not have the high privilege of being moral. And alone/dead. Just sayin’. I can’t tell you how many political arguments I’ve gotten into on the topic of self-interest. How many millions of Americans truly believe that the brilliantly perfect free market is best served by all… Read more »

nek
nek
8 years ago

So Kate, your logic is that it’s ok to exploit someone’s weakness (in your example, the man’s naivety about his status with you. Call it mental weakness) in order to get some primal urge satisfied (in this case resources and security)? This opens a can of worms from an equality standpoint, b/c what then is wrong with a man exploiting a woman’s weakness (physically smaller, weaker) to satisfy his primal urge (sex)? I have a feeling this is one of these dilemma’s that shows the goal of feminism: For men to be highly civil in a way that serves and… Read more »

archerwfisher
8 years ago

“Would it really be okay with you to see your hypothetical wife on video doing that kind of thing if she were also happy to do it with you, too?” Sunshine, I so do not believe the guys going “yeah, as long as she did it with me.” It’s one thing to say it, it’s a completely different thing to be in a situation and have to deal with it. How many of these guys on here are married? I’m pretty sure that if it actually happened, 9/10 of these guys would have the locks changed and wifey’s stuff packed… Read more »

Mike
Mike
8 years ago

,..and in other news 5-way gang-bang bukkake double-penetration amateur video pornography has just been codified as a “Sexual Need” by Femipedia.

Do not joke, my g/f came to me last week asking for what they’re calling Girls Nights to get up to this – at least she’s upfront about it – but yes, it’s pitched as a Need.

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

@LT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MClo5Vmm1og

@Mike: ouch. sorry to read. I’d hard next

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

Most relevant segment of the above video begins at 10:37

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

At the risk of going too far off into game theory…

The optimal strategy for the iterated discrete form of the prisoner’s dilemma is to cooperate on the first move, and play tit for tat thereafter.

The global maximum payoff is achieved when both players phase-lock into mutual cooperation.

It may sound esoteric, but this is as elegant and profound an expression of the concepts of love and trust as any…

Corey
Corey
8 years ago

@livingtree2013 The system is flawed, it is upheld in fact, most especially in the US, which prizes individual self-interest over all other values, by the expectation of acting out of rational self-interest over the contemptible “greater good”…Just sayin’. I can’t tell you how many political arguments I’ve gotten into on the topic of self-interest. How many millions of Americans truly believe that the brilliantly perfect free market is best served by all parties acting out of rational self-interest. I disagree 100%, but there’s no convincing people of this. It’s illogical.” There’s a direct relationship between the prosperity of a nation… Read more »

Kate
Kate
8 years ago

I see erroneous conclusion reaching has moved into Olympic territory. Several people have made it past the trials, and, if a few others would just try a little harder to misunderstand, we might be able to put together a full team! 😉

Tin Man
8 years ago

I think the only thing you can learn from the story, and hundreds of others just like it (and I’m sure all the sad stories from the other side of the fence is this)… Enter into marriage with your eyes open and KNOW the person you are marrying. If you give two shits about her past (or think you will) then vet her like a she’s getting the highest security clearance available. If you don’t, or are to in love to ask the hard questions, because you might have to walk away or she might walk away – then don’t.… Read more »

earl
earl
8 years ago

If absolute morality and self-interest are in agreement…you are on the right track.

Killing yourself for the person you love…or marrying someone you don’t desire to stay alive. Which is a physical death…and which is a spiritual death?

trackback

[…] was wondering aloud about this discrepancy in data recently, and Deti made an interesting […]

Phinn
Phinn
8 years ago

Never. I could never sit in the same room with her again, much less fuck her. Not with a triple-bagged set of condoms.

livingtree2013
8 years ago

No see Earl that is exactly what they’re not. There’s an inverse correlation between self-interest and morality. As a person acts more out of self-interest, they act less out of moral-interest. There has been many attempts at philosophical justification for self-interest as a moral premise, but in my estimation the reasoning just doesn’t hold up. Its what drives me nuts about these pop-morality catch-phrases about karma and statements like “What you give out comes back to you ten-fold”. Its like the only reason people do good things is because they’ll get some benefit out of it later. Like going to… Read more »

trackback

[…] Read it and then get back. […]

livingtree2013
8 years ago

Corey, the US is not prosperous anymore. If debt increases faster than GDP per capita, prosperity decreases. You are losing ground, and it has been the case for many, many decades (I can send you data proving this if you like). The US was actually prosperous when her people cared about community . They simply don’t anymore. What your founders knew is that democracy will fail because people are self-interested. It is inevitable. I don’t know exactly when it died, but it is dead, that much is certain. Maybe it died with the rise of atheism, or technology, or capitalism…… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

Morality may often seem opposed to the impulsive, short-term interests of the individual, but I disagree strongly that it is universally opposed to their best interest. Lots of cases in which following a moral code is consistent with the individual’s long-term best interest. It attempts to spare the individual from the consequences of overindulgence in their baser natures. Otherwise, hard drug addicts would have to be considered the people who are most clearly acting in their own best interest, no? Also see: the Stanford Marshmallow Experiment. It remains to be defined for each individual what maximized self-interest looks like, but… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  D-Man

In theory, D-Man, but you’re confusing “best interest” with self-interest. Self-interest is more immediate gratification of perceived need. Short-term need always, ALWAYS, 100% of the time, prioritizes over long-term need (and I use the term “need” somewhat liberally). In this frame of reference, the hard-drug addict IS in fact the person who is most motivated by self-interest, but not to best interest. Best interest is minimalist. We are not a culture of minimalists. Wouldn’t you agree? We want everything more bigger better faster now. We have let our self-interest become short-sighted. Everything, including our approach to education, is short-sighted. We… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  D-Man

Good reading on self-interest here:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/egoism/

Sal Ceech
Sal Ceech
8 years ago
Reply to  livingtree2013

@living tree

I admire your intellect and if you looked like Jessica Pare , you would be someone to be reckoned with.If ever a man you were involved with said to you ” I need you”, would you not start to lose respect for him??.

If I had a daughter I would tell her , if her man said that walk away.If I had a son his woman said that …run.What do I know I’m just the cowboy that Ed Bruce sang about.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Sal Ceech

Thanks. I do alright Sal, I’m no Jessica Pare, but I do alright.
I’ve never let a man say he needed me. I’m not sure I’d know what to do. I’d probably slap him and give him a stern talking to about life choices.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  D-Man

I have one trouble with the marshmallow theory, D-Man. I think the short-sighted individuals operate from a base-level distrust in the fairness of the reward/punishment system. People who trust the system may indeed be rewarded more, long term. But people who don’t, find other ways to get their rewards – ie. gangsters, players, whores, drug-users…. there’s a common theme there. I bet if you asked a hundred million people in America if they believed that waiting for a result would get them a bigger reward as they would get if they took the reward now, I bet that 75% would… Read more »

MikePhil
8 years ago

Having jumped the fence earlier this year into the red-pill mindset (thanks Rollo, bought your book), I like to think I have internalized a lot of positive masculinity since then to address and eliminate my learned Beta traits. However, I read this entry this morning at work, and it literally made me so sick to my stomach I couldn’t finish my coffee, mostly because I see an earlier version of myself in this poor man’s account. Credit goes to him for confronting his wife with the evidence, and also for laying out his disgust and shame to her; not for… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

So, to keep the conversation on gold-digging whores…

The one who follows her impulses and engages in gangbangs is simply acting in her own self-interest?

and

The one (could be the same person, just later on)…who gives this up in order to dupe a man she doesn’t love into providing resources and security for her is simply acting in her own long-term best interest?

Are these the hallmarks of a “Rational Female”?

Just wanna know who we’re dealing with here…

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  D-Man

D-Man, to bring it back to this specific article, yes the woman in question is acting in short-term self interest. The man was acting out of short-term self-interest too. Allow me to explain: He wanted to have crazy sex with his adoring wife and a vessel with which to produce offspring, which is a reasonable level of self interest to have. She wanted to have a financially secure, stable home to raise her children in. Also a reasonable self-interest to have. The difference is that he made the agreement with her knowing that she was going to get her need… Read more »

D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

“[Women] rationalize the decision to forego morality and operate out of self-interest, [men] rationalize the decision to forego his self-interest and operate out of morality.

See where the problem is?”

yep, red pill in a nutshell

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  D-Man

Right! I get it D-Man, you don’t need to convince me.

But you’re missing my point here. If you want people to stop acting out of self-interest, and start acting out of morality, you have a lot of work ahead of you.
Self-deception is what forces most people into making self-sacrificing commitments out of a sense of duty (which has becomes our new moral code, you can thank the Romans for that). Its total bullshit.

You are welcome to join the anti-self-deception-utilitarian-morality-league with me if you like. We meet weekly.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  D-Man

I mean, rationalized self-interest is practically a religion in the US, which is infiltrating the whole world via soft-imperialist, global infection of the self-interested free market, to the chagrin of Muslims everywhere, so trying to curb it now is kind of like holding back the tide. As in, impossible.

But starting with yourself is a good place. Its the only place, really, that a change can occur. Maybe one day more people will follow the lead and become rational-moralists rather than rational-self-interesteds, but I think probably the world will end in a fiery explosion before that happens.

livingtree2013
8 years ago

Gold-digging whores may be epidemic, but it is not a new epidemic. Marriage contracts, as Jeremy pointed out earlier, are always, ALWAYS about self-interest (though he phrased it differently, that is the essence of it) – it is a contractual arrangement. Since self-interest is the motivation for marriage (despite whatever delusions we have convinced ourselves of to justify it as moral), then what is the new epidemic is the conflict of interest. The one advantage of traditional marriage is, I guess, everyone knows that the arrangement is: unlimited awesome sex of the man’s choosing, in exchange for room and board… Read more »

Red Hurricane
Red Hurricane
8 years ago

If you notice in the story the woman get’s what she wants at the guys expense. That’s the pattern seen over and over in the modern world. The man should have been a lot more concerned with getting his from the beginning.

You get it LT. That’s the red pill. What you don’t get is that men are socialized AWAY from that perspective from the moment they are born. Rollo’s just doing the good work by trying to get men up to speed.

livingtree2013
8 years ago

Well, the sad part of Rollo’s efforts is that you guys aren’t really changing the game, you’re just learning how to capitalize on it. And I guess its better than it being one-sided, which I’m sorry that its become for you guys, but personally I think it would be wayyyyyy better if we could do the reverse, and maybe try not to encourage women AND men not be self-interested pricks. I can’t help thinking that would be good. That’s my optimism creeping in again… But really, what are the odds? I like the idea of biology as self-interest, which I… Read more »

Cylux
Cylux
8 years ago

Well, the sad part of Rollo’s efforts is that you guys aren’t really changing the game, you’re just learning how to capitalize on it.

It’s arguable that the guys and gals over at A Voice for Men are trying to change the game. So really that angle’s already covered.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Cylux

Ya I know it, and that is awesome for you guys, but who’s providing the voice for women?? I’m trying to be, but they don’t listen so good. Its a whole lot easier to buy the packaged fantasy about prince charming than it is to build our own house. When I was in my mid-20’s, I was extremely rebellious against this status quo “fantasy life” delusion. There was no way was I going to fall for this crap. In the process, I got called all sorts of names, people told me I must be a lesbian, or psychologically damaged, to… Read more »

Mojo
Mojo
8 years ago

I will give you an interesting story about something that happend to me. When I met my girlfriend I was just starting to spin plates after my wife left me. After we were fucking for a couple of weeks I brought up her sexual past. She has skills like a porn star, so I was expecting something in the order of 30-40. Hers was about 10 or so. After a year together, and our ability to honesty communicate with each other, I am fairly confident of that number. As we talked, I told her many times I would get rid… Read more »

John
John
8 years ago

Virgins only. Problem half-solved. If you weren’t the third after her chastity was taken, you will always be Mr. As-ov-now.

The sex will dry up anyway. No matter what a man does, if he genuinely cares for her, the cooch will eventually close. Genuine love from a man, is the ultimate anti-aphrodisiac.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  John

John, your solution of “virgins only” is incredibly immature, and it does not solve the problem. The ‘PROBLEM’ is that you are trying to solve a problem for which the only solution is literally having to buy a virgin bride off her father who’d kept her locked in a tower guarded by eunuchs for her entire life, and you would have to do the same thing with her after you bought her. Just feed her and visit her in her cell whenever you were horny. Or put an electrocution collar on her which would kill her if anyone ever touched… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  John

Haha, now there’s some male porn-fantasy right there. I should write that.

Sal Ceech
Sal Ceech
8 years ago
Reply to  John

” Genuine love from a man the ultimate anti-aphrodisac “? Very well said. Hence until I (if,ever) find the elusive unicorn …gentleman keep this in mind or you go to your peril ..let Freedom be your mistress. Thank you LT for your reply.Does Kate have anything further to add ..at all?

YOHAMI
8 years ago
Reply to  Sal Ceech

“The slut-behavior that Rollo wrote about in this article, really, deep-down, at its core, it is rebellion against the status quo. We should be encouraging it.” If you want to challenge the status quo there are other and more effective things to promote it, rather than self indulgence and getting cock in every orifice till you’re 30 and then be just dumped and lonely. For starters, the best you can do to destroy the status quo is to teach people make informed decisions. If you just promote slutthood you destroy an aspect of the status quo but create a new… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  YOHAMI

Ya Yohami, thats exactly the point. There are so very many rings of distraction in the way, built up around the rotting core, protecting it like a shell of defense, its a fortress now – and sometimes, like “feminism”, the defenses are built without even realizing that’s what they’re doing. There’s no way to get through to the core (if there’s anything left to find there), to get what you really need out of life, except to just abandon the whole premise, go it alone, be happy with what you’ve freely chosen because you did it freely, and maybe, just… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

That’s a complete fallacy Rollo, an oversimplification. Women simply do not desire guys that are desperate, needy and passionless. Is that what makes a guy a shlub? If so, maybe I misunderstand you.

There hundreds of thousands of guys you’d never believe get as much action as they do, but they do – because they aren’t needy. That is hot.

You honestly don’t need any other bit of information, if you want more women.

Sal Ceech
Sal Ceech
8 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

Rollo I’m glad I wasn’t sipping the coffee reading this , if I was I’d have a mess to clean up!!BTW can you post one your posts that has generated the most comments?

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  YOHAMI

And no, the issue isn’t that we just want raunchy sex from strangers, and also to have provisioning. This is massively over-simplifying things. The issue is, fundamentally, that women aren’t fully willing to commit to taking the freedoms that they fought to get. Its safer on the protected side, where the whole system of social support exists and you’re not alone. They know the window of freedom exists, they want to have the courage to step through, they put a foot through it once in a while and experiment with things that seem easy to get away with, things without… Read more »

Tin Man
8 years ago

I’m all about sharing – but this is funny – don’t watch if if you have not had kids yet…

livingtree2013
8 years ago

Hah that is hysterical. I’m totally posting that on facebook.

Jeremy
8 years ago

@Kate

I see erroneous conclusion reaching has moved into Olympic territory. Several people have made it past the trials, and, if a few others would just try a little harder to misunderstand, we might be able to put together a full team! 😉

Oh, I think I understand perfectly. In fact, your hamster get’s a 9.5 for that performance.

Tin Man
8 years ago

LT…”Well, the sad part of Rollo’s efforts is that you guys aren’t really changing the game, you’re just learning how to capitalize on it….” Just two pieces and not really arguing or debating your statement here. (1) Capitalizing on it is what GAME (and all its variants) is all about and (2) don’t know there is any real “change” that will happen. Are you talking about changing how people “act” or what creates attraction between a man and woman? Because a lot of that won’t ever change (it evolves over time – a very, very long time). If you’re talking… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Tin Man

Well, keep at it boys, you’re doing the right thing. Just try not to let the anger get the best of you. I know, its hard. I fought it for a long time myself. But I totally appreciate that sometimes, anger is the fuel of motivation that keeps you going.

I”m just glad to know you aren’t trying to bring about a resurgence of feudalism. I was really concerned for a while there.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Tin Man

No Tin Man, I don’t expect what attracts us to each other will change, at least not organically as a result of having brought about more desirable conditions than what our “biology” has wanted for previously. I do mean how we choose to act. I am disgusted with how people behave so selfishly, and how they justify their selfishness with all sorts of nonsense, ill-founded theories and bullshit economic data that mean nothing. Biology and morality are totally compatible. Self-interest and morality – not at all. Self-interest is not a foundation for a good-world outcome. Commitment to utilitarianism. I can’t… Read more »

Mojo
Mojo
8 years ago

LT, Its not porn, its truth and its setting the right frame of the relationship in the beginning. RM and other writes much about this. I was illustrating a pint with the the things I know best, my actual life. The “deprived hubby” obviously didn’t do that in the beginning of his marriage or when courting his wife. I messed up alot in my own marriage and now have a divorce to deal with. Fortunately, many red pitt truths seemed common sense to me when I was younger, but unfortunately I fell into a beta marriage mindset, for lack of… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago

Well, Rollo I can see you have your mind made up that there is no possibility that people can be motivated by anything besides biology, so this is where our conversation ends.

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ livingtree2013 Well, the sad part of Rollo’s efforts is that you guys aren’t really changing the game, you’re just learning how to capitalize on it. And I guess its better than it being one-sided, which I’m sorry that its become for you guys, but personally I think it would be wayyyyyy better if we could do the reverse, and maybe try not to encourage women AND men not be self-interested pricks. If you have read my blog, you will know that is my aim. Education and empowerment about these dynamics, for everyone, to promote fair trade – what you… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Jeremy

Of course, good Dr., I agree completely with your summation. By “encouraging” I don’t mean encourage sluttiness, I mean encouraging whatever it takes to break out caring so much about what other people think. It really messes with people’s heads, and their behavior becomes disingenuous. Men and women. That they wind up total nutjobs trying to force what they want out of the hodge-podge of conflict within them, without really understanding it, which winds up being a total disaster of role-reversal and retribution. Which, in my opinion, is what self-styled “feminists” have mostly become, and I worry more than a… Read more »

SirNemesis
8 years ago

@ lt2013

Haha, now there’s some male porn-fantasy right there. I should write that.

You mean female romance fantasy right?

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  SirNemesis

@SirNemesis…. I suspect there might be a few women with that fantasy too. I just don’t think it would come off as well if it was a man writing it, they would instantly reject it as sexist tripe, but if a woman wrote it…. I’m seriously considering this!

Mojo
Mojo
8 years ago

“Its been so ingrained in us, Cylux, from birth, from every possible angle, to want that life, to believe that we should want it, that if we don’t want it there’s something wrong with us, that I don’t honestly know what it’s going to take to make the shift.”

It called biology – survival of our species. You seem to want to jusk kick against the goads.

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Mojo

Bullshit Mojo. Human biology, at its working finest, would look like a rape. Male humps female, she gets pregnant, he walks away, she raises baby, he humps another female… and so on. The end.

Thats not what this is. Surely you don’t believe that protection crap is a biological NEED. Do you??

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@livingtree2013 By “encouraging” I don’t mean encourage sluttiness, I mean encouraging whatever it takes to break out caring so much about what other people think. It really messes with people’s heads, and their behavior becomes disingenuous. Men and women. But, “caring about what other people think” is part of what motivates them toward fair trade and their own best interest. When they “break out” of it and don’t care about others, they become selfish and self-interested. Thus, caring about what other people think doesn’t “mess with people’s heads”. Unless by that you mean it allows the needs of others to… Read more »

livingtree2013
8 years ago
Reply to  Dr. Jeremy

Hey Dr. Jeremy, I haven’t caught up yet with all 3000 comments left since yesterday afternoon when I clocked out, maybe this has already been addressed by someone else, or the subject has been completely changed since then… but anyway, your comment was about lack of concern for what others thinks leading to immoral conduct. I disagree, and here is why: Concern for what others think is completely different than concern for others’ values. It is a very important distinction. Concern for what others think is an expression of vanity. Concern for what others think is what leads people to… Read more »

Tin Man
8 years ago

since we’re driving in the the virtual ditch anyway….Yes, Virginia, biology AND evolution do support the theory of a community as opposed to a single rouge male going around “raping” woman. That’s why we survived…because we “collected” together…alone (either as a lone male or female with her pups) we would not have made it. Even with our superior brains – we had to gather. So, human biology (and evolution) did work at it’s finest – that’s why we are here. What you propose above it something that would have failed, therefore, we wouldn’t even be here having this little virtual… Read more »

Tin Man
8 years ago

Or maybe I should say….You don’t do it without consequences.

Aaron
Aaron
8 years ago

@livingtree2013

There hundreds of thousands of guys you’d never believe get as much action as they do, but they do – because they aren’t needy. That is hot.

Do you even read this site? Rollo has written quite a bit about both.

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ livingtree2013 Its likely that few women could really genuinely empathize with the plight of men, and men likely cannot truly empathize with the plight of women. Its fundamentally impossible. Or at the very least, really really difficult. IMO, that is asking the wrong question… I don’t need my girlfriend to “empathize with my plight”. I just need her to respect my needs and trade fairly. In contrast, people who want “empathy” for a “plight” are often manipulating the feelings of others to get an unfair concession out of pity. They don’t want to have to earn or pay for… Read more »

ARoss
ARoss
8 years ago

Looks like this is all too common: http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/super-page/in-the-wake-of-the-jameis-winston-case-tmz-asks-former-college-athletes-did-you-ever-run-train-on-girls/
I feel bad for anyone who has a girlfriend or wife that has hung around sports teams then again it’s just another filter to add when reviewing possible LTR or Marriage material.

Mojo
Mojo
8 years ago

LT, I do. I will tell you this first. I really never wanted kids until I had them. Example. When my wife was 7 months preggo, I had to go of of country to do some battle with bad guys. When I returned after 14 months I met my daughter for the first time. Apparently I she did not like being held by any men when I was away. My wife found it kinda strange actually. When I held her for the first time I knew then I loved her with all of my might and just wanted to protect… Read more »

Mojo
Mojo
8 years ago

LT,

“By “encouraging” I don’t mean encourage sluttiness, I mean encouraging whatever it takes to break out caring so much about what other people think. It really messes with people’s heads, and their behavior becomes disingenuous. Men and women.”

A necessary social convention to help insure monogamy and stable families. Modern Women are stone cold out of control. Your thinking promotes this.

Mojo
Mojo
8 years ago

Virgins only. Problem half-solved. If you weren’t the third after her chastity was taken, you will always be Mr. As-ov-now. The sex will dry up anyway. No matter what a man does, if he genuinely cares for her, the cooch will eventually close. Genuine love from a man, is the ultimate anti-aphrodisiac. Dad to say John your absolutly right. Woman should marry young and stay married. I would go as far to say that the only reason to stay with your older and now sexless wife is because she gave you her young hot years. In this case and if… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
8 years ago

LyingTree2013, how many times in this thread alone have you announced your departure, only to return?

Looks like you just can’t get over Rollo…

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
8 years ago

ARoss, that ath-u-letic story is not just a cautionary tale (heh) for men with regard to their LTR’s, it also is instructive for fathers.

Daddies, don’t let your girls grow up to ride cowgirl…

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
8 years ago

Aaron to LyingTree2013
Do you even read this site? Rollo has written quite a bit about both.

No, she doesn’t really read this site. Like Kate she’s here as part of a reframathon, when she’s not concern-trolling.

Matthew King
Matthew King
8 years ago

GUYS. This sort of thing happens ALL the time. It’s not the 1950s, you know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8P16wGxTpU If you don’t believe this, you must not be familiar with the hottest women. They all want to be shit on during sex, if you are alpha enough. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEKI7zfknXs Class has nothing to do with it. No woman can control her hypergamy. Every female is a secret whore just itching for the opportunity to beslut herself. The hotter the sluttier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgw7Lq9b93E The evidence is overwhelming, open your eyes. Beautiful and well-adjusted people will behave just like fat trash under the right seductive circumstances. I… Read more »

Matthew King
Matthew King
8 years ago

YOHAMI wrote: You know the type of men women are usually attracted to and that women don’t seem to have an inner moral compass and they are like glutton kids. Yet you think that a higher SMV woman, who’s only attracted to the very top and most dominant men, who has every boundary in the world being bended to please her, will want “less” depravity that the common girl who can only get it from books. What they want and what they do are two different things. Inner depravity becomes outer sluttiness when the opportunity is taken, not when the… Read more »

YOHAMI
8 years ago
Reply to  Matthew King

Matt, How did you take my assertion: “Dude. Any depravity she has in herself will be maximized by her SMV. Into this: You assume that every woman has the same inner depravity level (even despite their upbringing?) […] You say that every woman on the planet is at their maximum whorishness You can do better than strawman. So, I agree with most of your refute, too. Since Im not saying that all women, nor that the prettiest women are ALSO the more depraved… what’s there to argue? A woman can be more and less depraved, and only one factor is… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
8 years ago

Dr. Jeremy – “But what if desire does not precede arousal? That’s what University of British Columbia psychiatrist Rosemary Basson, M.D., discovered in interviews with hundreds of women. Contrary to the conventional model, for many women, desire is not the cause of lovemaking, but rather, its result. “Women,” Basson explains, “often begin sexual experiences feeling sexually neutral.” But as things heat up, so do they, and they eventually experience desire.” So what does this study have to say about a staple of the manoshpere – gina-tingles? If the tingle happens after escalation, I fear one of the three legs of… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
8 years ago

Tinman – ” I can not tell you how amazing it is for me to take my kids to dinner and see other families out – and ALL of them have their mobile phones out. ”

True story, out at a football game. Guy and chick sitting together, but separated by two kids. He phoned her on his cell and they chatted. I was blown away.

Pathetic!

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
8 years ago

John – “The sex will dry up anyway. No matter what a man does, if he genuinely cares for her, the cooch will eventually close. Genuine love from a man, is the ultimate anti-aphrodisiac.”

Sorry John, wrong.

27 years and still banging our skulls off.

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
8 years ago

Rollo – “All those Strong Independent® women you see marching in solidarity at the slut walks are still selectively fucking the guys who turn them on, not random schlubs who don’t in order to make some social statement.”

Jesus, maybe I am an anarchist afterall, I mean, I have fucked a few fatties…..

Dr. Jeremy
8 years ago

@ DeNihilist So what does this study have to say about a staple of the manoshpere – gina-tingles? If the tingle happens after escalation, I fear one of the three legs of game is broken…. That depends on when you think escalation and “sexual experiences” actually begin. That is why things like eye contact, body language, kino, etc. are so important from the start. The point of the study is that women don’t feel desire until the man does something active and escalates. A good PUA is doing some form of physical and psychological escalation and creating at least a… Read more »

Tin Man
8 years ago

Thought this song was appropriate – for this Man and lots of guys that go through this stuff….but you have to listen to the words…

Muttley
Muttley
8 years ago

Hi, Firstly I’d like to say thank you to all the contributors here, both to the more intellectual/theoretical debaters and those who have contributed stories from their own lives. A special thanks of course to Rollo for the book which I bought and have read once, soon to be read again I think! I am a beta male at best! I haven’t really looked into the other categories (gamma, omega etc) but I’m sure I’d find too many of my characteristics in there to want to even know! I first came across the Red Pill from watching the Nick Krauser… Read more »

Tin Man
8 years ago

@Muttley Hey thanks for the narrative…truth of matter is “happiness” is yours, with or without a woman and always remember, loneliness is choice, not your “lot in life”. All that being said, do not waste more time getting out of your “shyness shell” – be reserved, be aloof, be whatever you want to be – but shy needs to be taken off the list. Personal opinion – put that on your goal list. And what I’m doing, it look at every interaction big and small as personal non-shy training. Thanks for sharing – and I’m a bit older than you… Read more »

Liz
Liz
8 years ago

Wow, that was awful. I see no hope for that marriage. He doesn’t even know who she is.
Lying about one’s sexual past is more a “female” thing (because it’s usually more important to men). But this isn’t “female” behavior, it’s the behavior of a fraud. She can’t be trusted. What else has she lied about? Does she lie every day/every third day/only about important things…he’ll never know, and it’s pointless to wonder. I feel for him.

Muttley
Muttley
8 years ago

@Tin Man
Cheers!

YOHAMI
8 years ago

blockquote fix: How did you take my assertion: “Dude. Any depravity she has in herself will be maximized by her SMV. Into this: You assume that every woman has the same inner depravity level (even despite their upbringing?) […] You say that every woman on the planet is at their maximum whorishness You can do better than strawman. So, I agree with most of your refutal, too. Since Im not saying that all women, nor that the prettiest women are ALSO the more depraved… what’s there to argue? A woman can be more and less depraved, and only one factor… Read more »

DeNihilist
DeNihilist
8 years ago

Dr J., thanks for the response. That’s why I come here, to learn and share.

Rejecting the fear of rejection.

and not giving a rats ass for the person your fucking.

YOHAMI
8 years ago

Matt, They all want to be shit on during sex, if you are alpha enough. If a woman is being shit on during sex, with an alpha enough man, that’s because that’s the kind of sex and the kind of man she’s after. Women dont like to receive dominance from inferior males. Women love getting dominance from superior males. If a superior male does the “shit on” and she stays, that means she likes it. There’s absolutely no force holding down women to stay in relationships nowadays other than their own impulses, their own attraction and their own happiness. If… Read more »

michaeltx
michaeltx
8 years ago
D-Man
D-Man
8 years ago

Muttley, you’re a smart guy and clearly a decent human being. So that’s two huge pluses on your side. Another positive is that you know how to say no, and you’re prepared to be alone. Being psychologically strong enough to say “fuck it, I’d rather be alone than a sucker” is a good thing. The following is not necessarily directed at you personally, it’s just a bunch of thoughts I feel like rattling off right now One of the things that continues to help me is simply being vigilant about the negatives over which I might have some choice. If… Read more »

michaeltx
michaeltx
8 years ago

“…while 6-7 Beta sex partners drift off into obscurity when she pair-bonds with a sufficiently Alpha husband or partner….” **Rollo, do you actually believe this? Not rhetorical in the least bit.. I am struggling with this right now in my relationship. Something inside me tells me to move on. I truly believe I am engaging in Madonna/ Whore thought process all over again. Everything that she says and acts and that I witness tells me I am literally the only Alpha she’s ever had and is addicted to me and my personalty and my cock for that matter. Still doesn’t… Read more »

Muttley
Muttley
8 years ago

@ D-Man
Thanks! We keep chipping away at it don’t we?

SirNemesis
8 years ago

@ DeNihilist

So what does this study have to say about a staple of the manoshpere – gina-tingles?
If the tingle happens after escalation, I fear one of the three legs of game is broken…

Isn’t the opposite true? That sexual escalation – a key tenate of game – will arouse desire?

Kate
Kate
8 years ago

I’m afraid you don’t understand very much, Jeremy. But, you don’t have all the facts, so how could you. I’m about as far from a gold digger as you could find. But, several men of means have found me and offered to buy my house for me, buy a different house for us, flaunted their money teasing me with what they could buy me, etc. IF things worked out. At a certain point, it actually offended me. Its like a women who wears a low cut shirt but is all “uh uh uh no touchy look only” to a man.… Read more »

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