Good Girls ‘Do’

Good girls are just bad girls who never got caught.

Allow me relate here a case study I counseled a friend on personally about 6 years ago. I have a very good friend, Ray, that I hired and work with. Though we started out as work associates he bcame one of my better friends and had the benefit of my personally having unplugged him from the Matrix. He was a good student (for lack of a better term), but in becoming so he went through a transformation process. Like most guys fed on a lifetime of feminine conditioning he patronizingly accepted what I was initially teaching him, but privately, he still clung to his AFC mentalities. That is, until the turning point came.

Unbeknownst to me Ray had entertained a flirtatious “friendship” with a semi-attractive PR girl we were working with for a while. He knew what I’d said about LJBF rejections and “playing friends” with women, so he left me out of the loop on the whole affair. He had “dated” her on several occasions, but beyond the infrequent “kiss while drunk” she kept him at arms distance using the standard fillibuster techniques women classically use – “I’m not ready for a relationship”, “I’m not looking for a BF”, “We’re good friends”, etc. She did however keep him in her ‘attention web’ with little carrots of affection for him to pull her cart for about 3 or 4 months. Mind you, Ray was never a chump. He’d hooked up with his share of women, but this cute, “good girl” who was at best an HB7 developed into a ONEitis for him.

This all came to a head when one night she had to do some work with Aaron Lewis (yes, from Staind) while he was doing his solo acoustic act at our casino. To make a long story short, the PR girl ended up buzzed on this night and fucked Aaron Lewis’ tour manager in a classic situation of right-alpha, right-environment, right-conditions. Her mistake was in feeling the need to confess her actions to Ray who’d felt betrayed considering all the investment he’d put into doing what he thought was the right way to go about things. Here was one guy on one night who she fucked in a moment of chemical reaction because “he was hot, I was drunk and one thing led to another,..” versus his 3-4 month personal investment.

This was of course when he consulted me and informed me of everything leading up to it, only now he was at an impass. She appologized profusely to him and held out (once again) the olive branch of a LJBF rejection. He asked me what he should say, and it was at this point he took the initiative to tell her “no, we can’t ‘just be friends’.” He did what I advised him to and he walked away from a woman for the first time in his life. This is when all hell broke loose for her. She’d never been met with this response before and all the cards went straight into Ray’s hands. She would consistently ‘bump into him’ at bars or events to “have another talk”, she did a complete 180 in her attitude with him all in an effort to “be his friend.”

Now I’m exceptionally proud of Ray because, unlike most guys finding the true power of a takeaway, he stuck with it rather than being contented with her chasing him and then giving into the LJBF. He had actually learned a valuable tool that he still uses now – the power of the takeaway. In addition he also came to understand the principle of understanding a woman, not by what she says, but by what she does – he learned the importance of reading behavior. Of course after about 6 or 8 months she stopped pursuing him “to be friends” and he has talked to her in the interim years, but the frame of their discourse has changed. She has respect for him that she never had when he was the pursuer and never would’ve had if he’d surrendered to another LJBF.

Good Girls

This girl, at every opportunity, loved to display her ‘properness’ and would always say she “wanted a man with a good heart” when asked what she looked for in a guy. She was very outgoing as befits a PR person, but at all times she presented herself as someone conscious of how people perceived her and her reputation. Hers was a classic case of basing estimations upon behavior above words. Biology trumps conviction – sexuality, for as much as we think we can, will not go unexpressed. Celibate priests, moralistic republican statesmen, and the pure-as-the-driven-snow virtuous girl you’ve got ONEitis for all want to get off, and they’ll find a way to do so. According to FaceBook she now lives in Montana with a thoroughly beta husband who likely has no idea that she had the capacity for raw, feral hypergamy.

One of the trappings of a woman a guy perceives as a ‘good girl’ is that he’ll have a tendency to pedestalize her by default. White Knights are a given, but even hardened PUAs are prone to want to read more into the personality of a ‘good girl’. A cute-ish HB8 ‘good girl’ is a recipe for ONEitis because she seems to be above seduction. “I just want a guy with a good heart” sound so fairytale perfect and with just the right amount of naivete applied, she comes off as a girl who truly believes Disney wishes really do come true. To guys with Game she’s a jewel in the rough amongst the bitch-shielded mean girls that populate the new hook-up paradigm. To chumpish White Knights she’s an archetype – the innocent damsel who needs to be saved from the world before it corrupts her soul and she turns into all the other women who wont date them. Both of them are equally shocked when she spontaneously fucks an Alpha tour manager.

If you haven’t done so yet, I highly recommend adding The Art of Seduction by Robert Greene to your reading list. In this seminal work he begins by profiling the archetypes of seducers and amongst them we find our ‘good girl’ is really The Natural; a child like innocence that masks a seductive motive. You may be inclined to think of a good girl as a prude, but this is often in error. The good girl needs to be seductively cute enough to make her hypergamy work for her. Any prudishness is reserved for putting a suitor into stasis long enough to evaluate better options, or in the case of our PR girl, the option to capitalize on an immediate Alpha experience.

The good girl’s Game is built around playing to the ‘Quality Woman’ mythos that men harbor. They want to believe she exists among a sea of vapid, self-absorbed sluts looking to cash in before they hit the wall. She’s not the prudish Madonna and she’s not the Whore of Babylon, she’s the cute good girl somewhere in between. She’s only an HB7-8, not the demi-goddess HB9+, so she also emanates a tantalizing potential of attainability. All of this makes for a very idealized, very cemented form of ONEitis until it’s graphically dispelled for the guy suffering from it.

Just like all men have some form of game, women have their own game. Since we live in a feminine defined reality, women’s game is not considered subterfuge, it’s simply how women are, or the feminine mystique. What makes a good girl contrast with ‘other girls’ is still founded within this feminine social normalization.The wise practitioner of Game knows what works best for him, but he must also be aware of the Game being used against him. One of the most important aspects of the principle of Amused Mastery is actually having the mastery to be amused. That may sound cryptic, but what it means is having the experience to know what to expect from feminne Game, mastering it and being able to riposte with an amused laugh.

For example, the operative goal of girl-game is to maximize hypergamy, this is a foundation of Game. So in knowing this, you can craft an amused response to any seduction methodology women use on you. The good girl is still looking for an Alpha, and will still stop the good girl car to get out and fuck him should the opportunity arise. When you deal with the good girl or any of her sister’s methods always see them beginning with the end in mind.


54 responses to “Good Girls ‘Do’

  • YOHAMI

    Exactly right.

    Now, if he had done the “no we cant be just friends” from the beginning…

  • majorscarlet

    i wouldn’t extrapolate too much from a woman that is in PR for a living. ever date a woman in marketing and PR? in my experience, they tend to be the most image conscious and manipulative of all women. oh yeah.. and whores.

  • Scott Mitchell

    Something I learned and it’s very consistent. When first meeting a woman I ask “are you a good girl or a bad girl?”
    If she answers “I’m a good girl” she is definitely a bad girl with many skeletons in the closet.
    If she answers “I’m a bad girl” or “I’m bad sometimes” or whatever she is honest and she probably answers that way because she had a couple exes and went to a couple parties, etc. and she don’t want to sound like a BORING GIRL.

    The responses have been so consistent with the rule and with the results that I’ll teach younger guys to use the technique.

  • Johnycomelately

    Boy oh boy, ain’t too many girls playing that game nowadays…..

  • Thumpy

    I don’t know, man. I think you’d have to be a right fool to believe that there are ANY “good girls” out there. In fact, one of my rules is that there aren’t. There simply aren’t. So once you’ve come to that realization, you understand that there are two types of girls: 1) women who will screw you easily 2) women who will screw other guys easily but not you. The first type I can work with, the second type I tell to GTFO. Simple as that. No illusions, no time wasted.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    I am completely baffled at how anyone who has dealt with more than a handful of women in this day and age can hold onto any sort of belief that there is a such thing as a “good” girl.

    Most of these guys who still believe this myth fail to account for the fact that THEIR behavior and attitude determines how much of the good girl/bad girl comes out with any given woman. When they project their disgust for the bad girl, the good girl facade comes out full force. In other words, you are only allowed to see what she thinks you want to see.

    Conversely, an attractive guy who at least pretends to be non-judgmental can bring out the devil in even the most angelic woman. Even if she still holds onto the good girl facade in the face of lax societal constraints that allow her more leeway than she chooses to take, those walls come crumblin’ down when she is sexually attracted to someone who isn’t afraid to push the envelope to get her to open up.

    Speaking of “good” girls……I can’t help but feel sorry for some of these guys when I think back at what I have done to their wife or long term girlfriend (or what I know about them). This one has probably slept with a couple hundred dudes….that one got railed by me and half of my friends…..this one liked to have fuck buddies she could bang while she dated other guys…..that one cheated on me with other people and cheated on other people with me before he pulled her out of a strip club and married her……this one fucked me the first night we met….that one fucked me AND my buddy AND his wife the first night we met………and these guys proceed to WIFE these chicks up!! I’m not too proud to bang it out with a ho but I’ll be damned if I’m buying a house with her! Do these guys have any idea what their women have done in the past, or are they just in denial?

    I’m texting a good girl as we speak. She has a boyfriend who she claims to love, but now it’s at a point where I don’t know how long I can resist her subtle and not so subtle attempts to get me to rip her clothes off. She was raised by two churchgoing parents, doesn’t curse, uses “quaint” phrases…..by all accounts she’s the innocent girl next door. But I know better. The gates of hypergamy are open and the only thing that is holding back the beast is my reluctance to get involved with a chick who has a b/f and happens to know some of my friends.

    BTW, your picture for this post is fitting. I never would have believed how many women would be willing to get naked in front of a camera until I started asking. I have pictures and video of everything from long time “good girl” girlfriends to coke sluts and strippers to some married chick who let me film her one night when we ended up at my place at 2am. Come to think of it, since I started asking for pics I don’t think I have ever been turned down.

    Good girls indeed.

  • T & A Man

    Quality post here Rollo, especially for those just unplugging.

    if you ever write a book on game, this topic should be one of the first chapters. Obivously extrapolated out with more content, but this is vital.

    In a world of feminisation, many boys get brainwashed. Even with a father who ‘knows’ this, not all men have the ability to express this succinct enough.

    You do, keep up the good work.

  • Mike C

    Anyone watch MTV Real World? I’ll admit I’m hooked on reality trash shows like that and Jersey Shore. Anyways, this year’s episode is San Diego has an interesting dynamic that I think speaks to this post. There is this guy Zach who looks alpha (tall, muscular, football player) but is doing his damndest to totally act beta. The girl on the show Ashley who is pretty hot IMO has been throwing him every signal in the book to bang the shit ouf of her but he hasn’t gone for it out of “respect” she is a “good girl”. I’d bet $100 by the end of the show, she bangs some other random guy if he doesn’t make a move right away.

  • Nas

    What is the male equivalent of The Natural?

  • Rollo Tomassi

    You know who Vanessa Hudgens is right? Heheh,..

  • Nas

    Hahaha Two thumbs way up! Rollo u mentioned a while back that you are gonna have a post on what actually constitutes alpha. Is that still in the works?

  • Dreamer

    This poor comprehension, but I want to hear it from the horses mouth. Are you saying all women are a bunch of vapid, self absorb sluts, just that she an effective game of pretending to be better? Or just saying girls who looks act acts more to the good girl archetype (and falls under The Natural in Greene’s book) are still attracted to the same qualities we denoted as Alpha?

    Part of the message I’m reading right now seems to be saying I should view a girl who I knows is still a virgin the same way I would view a girl who has slept with over a hundred guys. And also assume the virgin is lying. I know it is probably not what you’re saying, but I want to hear it (or if it is, I want to hear how I should act instead).

  • Rollo Tomassi

    No. What I’m saying is that the good-girl archetype (and it’s subsequent ONEitis) is reinforced by the perception that she’s an anomaly in a field of women who are characterized as vapid, self-absorbed sluts. The good-girl methodology works best when she’s compared in more absolute terms to other women, and men who buy her fantasy have to make her better by making other women worse. It feeds a man’s ego to think he’s self-righteously foregoing ‘incorrigible bar skanks’ by playing into the good-girl’s narrative. It’s not that a sweet innocent virgin is necessarily lying to you, it’s just that she’s still subject to the same hypergamy and biological impulses any other woman is. The good-girl narrative attempts remove her from this.

  • xsplat

    Some people expect that going to another country is the way to find the “real” good girls.

  • YOHAMI

    Yeah. It doesnt work that way.

  • Nestorius

    Good girl or not, 3-4 months were enough for him to seduce her, especially that he had already established confidence, that he saw her frequently, and that had private and quiet time together.

    It seems to me that the fault is with system not with him. The system has installed the fear of sexual harassment into him.

  • YOHAMI

    “3-4 months” to seduce ONE girl? :-)

  • YOHAMI

    He wasnt trying. He was conceding the frame to her. It would have taken 15 years, until she ran out of prospects and needed to pay the bills. Then it would have been oh love.

  • Anonymous

    “Good girl or not, 3-4 months were enough for him to seduce her”

    Did he seduce her, though? I mean, did he actually get her in the sack? I don’t see that anywhere in the post. All I see is her pursuing him to continue “to be friends.” IMO that does not count as a seduction, unless there is more to the story than was told.

  • Nestorius

    Of course not 3-4 months for one girl, but he had his multiple chances. He was at ease.

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  • BDubs

    I’ve been reading a lot of your posts, as well as others of the “Manosphere”, and I can see a lot of my past interactions in the examples like that from this post. same thing pretty much; I re-initiated contact with a girl that I had previously been talking to (but she cut it off due to a highly jealous boyfriend nearly a year previous). Looking back on it, she immediately ‘firend-zoned” me, but I didn’t realize it until a bit after we started talking. She was all about riding the carousel when I looked her up, and was telling me that she was not looking for a relationship at that time (which I should’ve used as a clue to switch my tactic), but I fell right into being the beta. a few months after that, I finally had enough of her BS and cut her off. During the time we were talking, she kept telling me that if we ever hooked up, that would be it, we wouldn’t even be talking anymore, and I fell into the trap of her frame. It was def a learning experience for me, and I felt much better after cutting her off (even though she, in a way, was my source of validation, and regular “hot” conversation). It was def eye-opening to be attached to a girl who would use me for the emotional side of the relationship that she was “avoiding” (while using random dudes for the sexual side of it). It’s prvided added impetus to avoid women like that in the future (that and reading blogs like this show what these women are really like). Here’s to taking the Red Pill, and not falling into that trap again.

  • Judge nismo

    There is no such thing as a good girl. Men and women can’t be friends because the man is gonna want sex at some point.

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  • Tom

    I have explained to many ‘mature’ girls, most of them raised Catholic that good girls do what they’re told. One of my favorite moves is to bring them close to climax with my mouth or even give them one and tell them I’m going to make them a ‘pretend’ good girl”. I make sure they understand it’s something that I’m about to do. Then I slide one digit up their ass and another up their pussy at the same time while keeping them going and close again. Then when I’m pounding them and they’re close to popping I ask them ‘What do those fingers have to be for you to be a REAL “good girl”? They think for a second, then ALWAYS say “dicks” and then immediately EXPLODE. Never fails. Even the ones that hate it afterwards and are feminists like my wife pop like roman candles.

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  • alcockell

    Speaking as a guy who has the following against me..
    1 – virgin at 42
    2 – Asperger Syndrome
    3 – female-perpetrated sexual abuse victim when I was 13 (but my libido didn’t boot till 18 meaning it was as if the girls concerned were abusing an 8-year-old)…

    is there any hope at all of finding a good-hearted woman out there at all? Especially as I can’t do Machiavellian at all… being autistic, I cannot help but be completely honest. I don’t understand lies or dishonesty – are there ANY women out there who are completely aboveboard?

    Or do I have to be a monk?

  • Morpheus

    Speaking as a guy who has the following against me..
    1 – virgin at 42
    2 – Asperger Syndrome
    3 – female-perpetrated sexual abuse victim when I was 13 (but my libido didn’t boot till 18 meaning it was as if the girls concerned were abusing an 8-year-old)…

    is there any hope at all of finding a good-hearted woman out there at all? Especially as I can’t do Machiavellian at all… being autistic, I cannot help but be completely honest. I don’t understand lies or dishonesty – are there ANY women out there who are completely aboveboard?

    Or do I have to be a monk?

    Damn. I can empathize with your situation. My brother is about 5 years younger than you, has Aspergers, and to the best of my knowledge is a virgin. Knowing what I know, and being honest I have to say you are basically fucked at least with neurotypical women. Aspergers is basically having Anti-Game on steroids and growth hormone. I don’t know if there are meetups for people with Aspergers, but in terms of female companionship and sex, I think your best bet is to try and meet a female Aspie. I know they are relatively rare compared to men with Asperger’s. This may sound defeatist, but I am trying to be honest….I don’t think men with Asperger’s are equipped to interact romantically/sexually with women. You’d likely be opening yourself up to a world of potential pain.

  • alcockell

    *sigh*

    I’ve been doing a lot of nostalgic playout of old Chicago/Huey Lewis and similar from Youtube and deezer, and it’s even got to the point where hypergamy has got SO feral that even the fantasy models offered by phonesex firms are WAY beyond anything that resonates.

    To wit – [NSFW] – http://www.hornylines.com/ – the trends there are all towards so many carousel riders.. and complete dealbreakers for people like me who simply dream of a nourishing tender health-giving sex life within a loving relationship.

    WHat you say about AS being Anti-Game is right – as the apparent requirement for brilliant sexual performance as a fitness test before being granted access to her heart – is too much like the landing-a-Sea-King-on-a-carrier round on The Krypton Factor. Just like with everything with AS beign flipped from the NT perspective, I would NEED the security of a tender committed relationship in order to feel safe enough to give myself to the lady concerned.

    Romantic? Yep. Faithful to a fault? Yep. One-woman man? Can’t be any other way.

    Ability to be Machavellian? Impossible.

    What the hell happened?

  • alcockell

    I had a glance around at some guides for dating Aspies geared towards women – and EVERY ONE says 3 things are uppermost.

    HONESTY
    ETHICAL
    OWN YOUR SHIT

    No wonder we Aspies were shoved under the bus…. when we’ve been the folk who’ve kept the others honest…

  • Morpheus

    I had a glance around at some guides for dating Aspies geared towards women – and EVERY ONE says 3 things are uppermost.
    HONESTY
    ETHICAL
    OWN YOUR SHIT

    LOL…that model of woman does NOT exist, especially the “OWN YOUR SHIT” part. Most women communicate indirectly, being blunt and forthright isn’t part of their wiring. I have to imagine this presents a minefield for the typical Aspie to navigate in trying to figure out what is actually going on in the woman’s mind since the thoughts and speech are separated by layers and layers of subtext. I haven’t asked my brother this, but I assume Aspies have literally close to ZERO ability to interpret subtext. And the OWNING YOUR SHIT part…LOL…the hamster has a powerful ability to rationalize anything.

  • alcockell

    I suppose you’re right. I’m recovering from cellulitis in my legs at the mo, so I’m working from home… and this is where some daytime TV can expose this.

    for instance – if ever I feel like crap, Jeremy Kyle can cheer me up… but it’s also depressing as this shows the detritus left after all the damage. Chavs and chavettes screaming at each other, babydaddies etc.
    And while it feels like a lobotomy – to British eyes, real Housewives is an eye-opener as to how babyish some women can be. You only have to see the Twitter feeds to see the number of “FFS, GROW UP, WOMAN!” comments from this side of the pond when it airs on ITV2.

    Oh – and this got a LOT of people’s backs up… http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsy6vp_sex-lies-and-rinsing-guys_shortfilms

    is the Gold-Digger or Gangsta’s Moll really the only archetypes women seem to follow? Oh – that and the Entitled Princess?

    Re subtext – most Aspies ally themselves to the truth – rather than anyone’s side. So “say what you mean and mean what you say” is the basic rule. along with the Golden Rule. Yep – pretty much no innate ability to parse subtext in realtime. I take things at face value – as I’m completely honest.

    Tony Attwood covers it well…

    Unlike today’s high-SMV people who seem to be the most selfish, unethical people who will gladly shove anyone in the way under the bus, we Aspies want to build stuff that keeps working. And it annoys me that the psychopaths seem to be destroying everything in sight when it took DECADES to build.

    Will we ever get two people complementing and building again? Man and woman working TOGETHER?

    I can’t do dog-eat-dog competition – I am one of life’s collaborators. If I were married, I’d take a bullet for my wife. But my biggest horror was if she had her finger on the trigger.

    remember that news piece where a woman shoved her newly-wedded husband off a high hill? We had that storyline in Eastenders a year back.. is Janine Butcher THAT much of a rolemodel now?

  • alcockell

    Thinking about it – I’ve always been the Brother and never the Boyfriend.

    There have been the occasional offer – which I kicked into touch as there’s also the wholehearted Christian thing… I can’t do casual sex at all – would need the security of marriage tbh in order to go there. Can’t even countenance adultery at all… couldn’t go there. And as for this whole choking thing that seems desired by today’s carousel-rider… why on earth would I risk my beloved’s airway?!

    Treat her like a “slut”? I’m coming in as an innocent! I NEED that whole-person connection.. Now – dreams of “christening every flat surface”, learn what really gets each other off – I can do that… but why would I want to injure or risk killing the woman I love? Can’t get my head around that one…

  • Morpheus

    Yep – pretty much no innate ability to parse subtext in realtime. I take things at face value – as I’m completely honest.

    Which is highly problematic. The essence of flirting/cocky funny banter is mixed messages, and sometimes meaning the exact opposite of what you say. Take something like Agree and Ampify. What you mean..the subtext is the exact opposite of your actual spoken words.

    Another case is chicks love to play made up bullshit role playing Games. I really recognized this one Halloween many, many years ago where a girl came in to the bar I was working and somehow we got on this wild tangent she would be my wife for the night. Long story short, the night involved all sorts of absurd conversation that was basically nonsense, but I just went with the flow. Later that night, ended up making out with her back at a house party, and probably would have fucked her if I didn’t get cock-blocked by a fattie I made the mistake of being nice and kind to who mistook that for interest.

    Anyways, the worst thing for building attraction is logical, earnest conversation.

  • alcockell

    Whereas back in the courtship days and shortly afterwards, when there was still that vestige of JudeoChristian models – the “honourable intention” approach was still legit?

    Such a bloody shame I was abused by peers and that caused me to shut down…

  • alcockell

    So the typical heart-on-the-table go-completely-all-in model as voiced by Peter Cetera (Glory of Love, Will you still love me etc), Billy Joel (Tell her About It), Huey Lewis etc… just opens the guy up to being curb-stomped?

    Then again, I suppose a lot of that lyric came from the model that was running in the 60s/70s. And the female counterpart from the pen of Carole King and the like… a kinder time…

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  • Yan G.

    @Alcockell : I know this is not what you want to hear, but please hear me out. As an aspie, you are not equipped to do what you wish to do. This is sad and I have a younger aspie friend whom I love but would absolutely never have sex with her so I can understand women not wanting to be with you in a romantic relationship.

    My suggestion to you is to work on yourself, first by hitting the gym and getting a trainer who will help you build a good physique. Use this improved body to have fun in life ( camping, climbing, hiking). Learn to love enjoying your own presence.

    Then, when you want to be close to a girl, hire a quality escort $200-500/h (I would absolutely never pay more) and have your fun. This way, you center your life around yourself and bring in the girls to fulfill your own needs. If you worked on yourself, paying for sex can be seen as cutting through the bullshit to get what you want immediately instead of feeling like a loser. If your shit is in order, given your AS, paying for sex would never reflect negatively on your person.

  • Varrian

    Just got a nice sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. The thing that stands out the most for me in this article is: “understand the principle of understanding a woman, not by what she says, but by what she does.”

  • alcockell

    Are there NO women with consistent principles now? Or was Nobody’s Side from Chess pretty much the manifesto?

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