Good Girls, Bad Girls

goodbad

Culum Struan requoted a really great thought from an old commenter, AnonymousBosch, on Heartiste’s blog from about a year ago and I thought it might make for some good weekend discussions:


All I’m getting at is that every woman has an almost psychopathic longing to destroy any perception of being ‘the good girl’. It’s the most common complaint you’ll hear from women:

“It’s so hard being good.”

Women long to indulge their emotions enough to risk being swept away by them, and it’s this self-indulgence that makes them at risk of being self-destructive: they reach a point where they just want to tear everything down, including the Good Girl, and, most commonly, their beauty. An example is hacking off their hair when they have a breakup.

It’s in their songs, it’s in their literature, it’s in their movies. The social pressure to ‘behave’ drives them to distraction, even as they conform to it, meaning they’re internalizing this constant battle to be both good and bad: wanting the social approval, rewards and status for being good but desperately-craving social stigmatization to the degree of martyrdom for being bad.

Feminism, at it’s core, is basically: “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!”

This is why it’s beloved of ugly chicks who can’t sexually compete, and those with obvious Daddy Issues.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

If you’re stoic, she gets to indulge her emotions with a safety net that stops her from self-destructing, and she will adore you for it. This is the masculine – feminine relationship. She gets to be weak, knowing you’re her rock. She doesn’t want to lash out at stone that crumbles, whilst simultaneously wanting strong shelter to hide against.

Sexual degradation is part of the risk, and you temper this by always being in control of the situation. Never let her think she’s leading: or her desperation to prove her devotion to you will take her into weird, disgusting places that destroy her.

If you’ve got your player on, I guarantee you will hear some variation of this: “I’d never do this with any other guy, but you make me want to do this and I’m not sure why.”

This is their sexuality out of control by their furious emotional desire to be owned by you – they are swept away – and this is where you need to reign them in with a strong hand and be ‘Daddy’. Otherwise she’ll get stupid notions in her head that by being sexually-outlandish, she’ll be the whore women believe all guys want their wives to be, not realizing that we don’t want to think of the mother of our children blowing dogs and wearing our shit, (unless that’s really your thing).

This is what destroys women and makes the light go out in their eyes: when they degrade themselves for a man they value highly-enough in the hopes of locking him down enough only to eventually disgust him.

Sometimes, the degradation is a sex thing, where she blurts out that she’d blow a horse for you.

Sometimes, it’s physical: she wants you to see her with running mascara and her hair hacked off so you can see how ‘wounded’ and ‘vulnerable’ you’ve made her.

Sometimes it’s emotional: stories of ‘being raped’ or being abused by Exes, designed to fire you up with masculine protective instinct, but instead make you see her as damaged goods. She thinks she is showing you how much she longs for you with these socially-transgressive displays – because Social Status is female currency and power – so deliberately lowering herself in a man’s eyes is the ultimate submission for her – but all she is doing is pushing you away.

During sex: always lead, always control, always structure what is happening. She wants to serve a strong man: show her how to so she doesn’t go off on self-destructive tangents. As McQueen used to say, don’t call her ‘a’ whore, call her ‘your’ whore. Your eyes are your strength here: if she’s sucking your dick, tell her to look at you, so she has nowhere to hide. Call her your ‘good girl’ as she does it.

Basically, structure a performance of faux-degradation and sexual submissiveness she can enact it that makes her feel she’s served a strong man, that stops her crossing into actual degradation, where it starts emotionally-messing her up and leaving scars.

That being said, Millennial Girls seem to possess a capacity for self-loathing and self-destruction I’ve never seen in previous generations.

So, take what is happening in this thread: the transfer of money for sexual degradation. It’s the same core process: she’s telling herself it’s about the money, but it’s about submission before the masculine: the trappings of supreme social and financial power. It’s about thinking she’s high value enough to be submitting to Princes and Kings, so the leap to being crapped on or blowing a dog to prove she is ‘a worthy consort’ is a small one for them.

Obviously, it makes no sense to us, but women seem to be clueless as to what behaviour actually makes them attractive, and not repulsive, to men.”


I think one of the reasons AnonymousBosch finds Millennial girls to be more debased is that these girls are the first generation to be counted among the sum result of a preceding 4 generations of feminist ideologies. Likewise, Millennial men are the products of that same 4-5 generations of emasculation, feminization and the deliberate obfuscation of what masculinity “really is” for them. This deserves some explanation.

I’ve gone into the timelines and the evolution of how Hypergamy has been released from social restraints, wholesale, on western society in my Adaptations series of posts, but it’s a good review to understand what AnonymousBosch is relating here; We keep returning to Hypergamy and its regulation as a basis for an expanded vision of social structure, but it’s important to remember the behavioral prompts that women’s biology predisposes them to in that respect. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution we’ve had a systematic conditioning for, and institutionalization of, a social order that prioritizes women’s Hypergamy as the predominant one.

Unilaterally female-controlled hormonal birth control was certainly a catalyst for this social shift, but it’s important to remember that for the past 4 generations women have been raised and acculturated in a social environment not only rooted in the fempowerment narrative, but also one that encourages the excesses of the ‘bad girl’ side of Hypergamy that AnonymousBosch describes here. And as I mention in that post, the social engineering that’s led to feminine-primacy (as well as erasing the inconvenient aspects of conventional masculinity) all centers on optimizing women’s Hypergamy.

So we experience 2-3 generations of women who are conflicted between what that Fempowerment narrative has taught them they should value and the conventional, evolved biological impulses that predispose them to appreciating, enjoying and submitting to sexy male dominance. Instead of being confused and agonizing over the traditional (old order) ‘Good Girl’ social restrictions that buffered the more damaging consequences of Hypergamy, now women agonize over the conflict between what Fempowerment has conditioned them to believe they should be attracted to in an “equal partner” (Beta Bucks) and their visceral sexual drive for ‘bad’ Alpha dominance in a man they want to lose themselves with.

They’ll still lay claim to the ‘Good Girl’ social convention when it suits their purpose (i.e. during the Epiphany Phase) to affirm their decisions to prioritize a need for long term security – or to excuse past Alpha Fucks sexual needs – but the primary conflict is still the same, an internal war between the contradicting aspects of her sexual strategies and how they influence her life’s decisions and different phases of her maturity.

In her SMV Peak years, “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!” is the message she adopts insofar as it serves her sexual strategy’s immediate interests. The conflict comes when she needs to temper this sentiment with a need to settle into a motherhood role and compromise it just enough to present the appearance of being a prudent choice for long term commitment.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

When men first come to Red Pill awareness about the motivations of women’s sexual strategy it’s very easy to see their behaviors as being intentional or their after-the-fact rationalizations for them as being convenient and expedient in excusing them. There is a definite design to the psychological and social schema women will use to explain their actions, particularly when they’re anti-social, sexist and/or damaging to the men who bear the worst of them.

Not to say men should tolerate this, but it’s important for men to understand the underlying psychology and motivators for women’s behaviors. It would seem AnonymousBosch has embraced this understanding. Again, it’s easy to think you’ll just put your foot down and not tolerate women’s bad behaviors, but this ignores those same female-motivators, sacrifices a real understanding of them and attempts to replace learning to maneuver them with the misguided hope that women will be rational agents and change their behaviors because we say so.

Men of this mindset believe the same ‘equalist’ hope that women will cease to be the “most mature teenager in the house” because they rationally explained to them that they should ignore their base motivators (Hypergamy) and act reasonably. This doesn’t work for women, nor does it work for men when women attempt to convince men to adopt a feminist mindset based on exactly the same appeal to reason. The boner doesn’t lie, and neither does women’s sexually strategic behavior.

In an age of unfettered, socially and legally affirmed Hypergamy it’s counterproductive to expect any woman to self-police her own sexual strategies by appealing to her reason.

The good news, as outlined by AnonymousBosch, is that Red Pill awareness and internalized Game are the same buffering contingencies for Hypergamy as they’ve always been. The trick for men now is to reestablish and embrace a connection to the conventional masculinity that’s been systematically conditioned out of men for 2-3 generations. In fact, there’s no better evidence of this Blue Pill conditioning than the common sense of counterintuitive-ness of embracing a masculinity that puts a man into a position of exercising the dominance women need.

820 comments

  1. Wow, I love everything about this. That picture, that comment! AnonymousBosch clearly gets it.

    I think women are so into the extreme, degrading stuff he talks about (which I’m just going to categorize as “humiliation”) now more than ever is that it’s a cheap, quick way to bond.

    Bonding does not come so naturally when you’re entering a relationship at a later age, after lots of casual sex, even just after a couple of relationships.

    I think we want to be hazed, actually. The point of hazing is bonding. To go to an extreme place and find each other there.

    And, since we’re so much more concerned with experiencing feelings than just kind of observing reality from an objective standpoint, I think we’re interested in extreme experiences that will help us FEEL the polarity we crave. And a lot of us are willing to go to some pretty dark places to find those feelings, much more so than men.

    My husband’s requirements of me as a good submissive wife are pretty straightforward: be vaguely cheerful, don’t argue, say “okay” when he tells me to do something.

    My concept of myself as a good submissive wife would be much more intricate and dark, and feelings based. It would be experiencing subjugation as self-transcendence. I think that’s what the dark stuff is all about.

  2. The book Datenomics ( and “too many women?” posits that the sex ratio controls men and women’s sexual behaviors. if there are a lot of men, then the men want ensure that that they can get a wife and become particularly interested in long term relationships. Even high quality men. The men also become interested in virginity et al.

    If there a lot of women, the men (especially high quality men) don’t want to get into long term relationships. Women tend to be more promiscuous. Apparently, oral sex was popularized in the 1920s (when the ratio was low due to the WW1 soldier deaths). It also leads to Feminism since there are leftover women who are unable to get married.

    Due to the high numbers of women in college and the desire of college graduate women to date college graduate men, there is effectively a low sex ratio for college graduates.

    This stuff is totally reversible though.

    Darkly, low sex ratios also lead to more rape and lower penalties for rape since women are valued less.

  3. @rollo, your timing is always impeccable.
    Just last weekend I took wifey away for a few days in a tropical locale for the weekend to do some man things with a side of couple time free of offspring.

    Friday night entails what could be characterized as a peak social experience, great time with friends, lots of drinks. Get back to the hotel and invariably wife drives the whole show off the rails by going broad spectrum BSC powered by booze. It should have been wham bam thank you mamme, instead I end up leaving the hotel for the night saying “fuck this, not again”. She ends up in tears in a friends (couple) room bemoaning my departure. I amresourceful so I had other places to stay in comfort.

    Next day, I say nothing, I have man things to do and accomplish I have no time or inclination to sort out her various forms of self flagellation and self sabotage so I go do my thing. That night I maintain stoic status quo and apply some alcohol and voila, deranged selfless slut throws herself at me with no limits, essentially, “please degrade me”. I obliged despite my general fatigue. Woke up the next morning and continued the degradation a bit and went back to my male endeavour thereafter, quite successfully I might add.

    She knew she was bad, she knew she should be punished, had the walls been thicker where I was staying I would have been flogging her with the cord of the bedside lamp to prove my point and she would have thanked me for it.

    Thank God despite how drunk I was I could recognize the ocean for what it was and tell it to rest at my feet.

    I think I am going to change my handle to Poseidon.

  4. Rollo,

    Off-topic, but this might provide some fodder for red-pill analysis. I see it as sort of a “beta game” on steroids…which is men doing their “fair share” of “emotional labor”. The very concept of “emotional labor” seems almost Onionesque but it may represent a further split into sexy guys for short-term sex, but “emotional laborers” for long-term partners.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0UUYL6kaNeBTDBRbkJkeUtabEk/view?pref=2&pli=1

  5. The book Datenomics ( and “too many women?” posits that the sex ratio controls men and women’s sexual behaviors. if there are a lot of men, then the men want ensure that that they can get a wife and become particularly interested in long term relationships. Even high quality men. The men also become interested in virginity et al.

    Although there is some merit and validity to analyzing data when it comes to dating, mating, sexuality, etc. I think it is easy to run afoul and try to pin too much on carving and slicing data. I’m sure the sex ratio plays some role but I think broader societal/cultural trends play more into it than just a man to woman ratio. It is really easy to find people pumping certain theories and conclusions based on garbage analysis…Rollo know of what i speak 🙂

  6. I think it’s important that the thread that post is from is linked so guys understand that we’re not talking about a little dirty talk or hair pulling:

    https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-45437.html

    Also be sure to see the sequels: My Secret Garden and Forbidden Flowers by Nancy Friday and watch some average everyday girls do fucked up shit on Chaturbate.

    The truth can be uncomfortable, but guys need to really GET how deep the rabbit hole of female sexuality goes and that it’s not just some small % of crazy bitches lol

  7. Agent P, I know that situation all too well – and if I’d had the wit (and, yeah, the Pill) it would have gone much better… though even then I suspected the better way, doubts from beta training notwithstanding. It’s good to have an actual example of Situation Done Right, thanks.

  8. (Going to make an adage/mantra of the “telling the ocean to rest” thing. )

  9. Likewise, Millennial men are the products of that same 4-5 generations of emasculation, feminization and the deliberate obfuscation of what masculinity “really is” for them. This deserves some explanation.

    I may be overreaching here, but this is something that just dawned on me. I’ve been working out…lifting weights for 20+ years. I’ve noticed recently at my gym I just don’t see many guys younger than me (mid to late 20s, 30s) really hitting the weights…heck I see more guys who look like hipsters on the treadmill. It would be interesting to see what percentage of men are active weight trainers from say 1970 to present. I’d bet it ramped up with the mainstream popularity of Arnold and has actually declined over the last 10-15 years.

  10. Heheh, at 48 I can honestly say my physique is in the top 10% of all the men I see at the gym I go to. And that’s all the men, of all ages.

    There are a core group of older guys who are in good shape (jacked if you like), but most younger dudes don’t lift. They do crossfit, or what they think passes for it by doing zero weight resistance or rubberband workouts, but none are really all that in shape or IMO even that interested in it. It’s like an inconvenience to them.

  11. This reminds me of something a close female friend always says which is to never take dating advice from women. She insists that most women not only do not know what they really what, but (as we all know), they usually want the opposite of what they say they want. She too insists that the desire for dominance is in the soul of nearly every woman whether she realizes it or not. And that there is the danger.

  12. … attempts to replace learning to maneuver them with the misguided hope that women will be rational agents and change their behaviors …

    It is often stated (paraphrasing) that the thing which separates mankind from the rest of the animal kingdom is that he can become something more than his base impulses would have him be through the exercise of his will. It is further argued that this is what the process of education (formal schooling and social conditioning) is all about – learning to subjugate base impulses in order to accomplish something greater for the benefit of self and others (e.g., save some for a rainy day, don’t consume it all as soon as it is obtained.)

    Years of experience have taught me that men and women see the truth contained in the previous paragraph in different ways. Which is to say, some (all?) women don’t see it at all. I have come to appreciate the truth contained in the quote at the top of this post through the process of experience.

    When younger, I appreciated the concepts expressed in Jonathan Livingtson Seagull – I don’t want to control you, I want you to control yourself. I don’t want to be your ruler; that’s why you have been given an education – you are supposed to know enough to rule yourself. Together we can create a world of our own and help each other become all that we can be.

    I still believe in that. It’s just that, now, I know it ain’t gonna happen.

    Which makes me wonder if there would be much difference in the overall behavior of women if we didn’t send them to school at all. There is so much of that educational experience (e.g., learning to be your own master of self) that seems to be lost on women when they become adults.

    My wife’s go-to response when I used to point certain things out to her: “Why do you want me to be someone different than who I am?” As a male, I grew up believing that the entire point of becoming civilized was the process of becoming someone other than who you were, at base. Left to ourselves, uncivilized, we are ruled by our baser natures. Becoming civilized involves learning to rule over, and subjugate those baser natures – become something other than, more than, who we are at base. My wife never did seem to get this (she’s still my wife, and she still doesn’t get this). So – I held my nose and learned what I needed to learn in order to maneuver her into behaviors she should have (my male thinking) learned to engage in herself – in terms of controlling her baser impulses. That is, I learned to apply the truth contained in the quote at the beginning of this post.

    Part of my learning process referred to above was watching older couples that I knew quite well growing up – where the wife was the model of decorum. Then the husband died, and the wife/widow turned into someone I no longer recognized. That is how the truth of the statement quoted at the beginning of this post began to dawn on me. All of these older women who I admired for being so “different” than the uncivilized folks I also knew suddenly became one of the uncivilized folks I did not prefer. That taught me the emotionally-painful lesson that what I had observed of these older women’s “civilized” behavior was more the husband’s doing than the wife’s. That, indeed, was/is a hard truth to swallow.

    But we are utterly up the creek without a paddle if we don’t learn it.

  13. @yareally

    Never thought I’d see 120 Days of Sodom type fetishes in anything but a movie. Shoulda known better. One of the posts there recommended googling “dubai porta potties” … damn lol. Some fucked up shit out there.


  14. She’s Come Undone – The Guess Who

    Speaks to the subject matter of this thread.

  15. This article explains why younger girls go for the tattoos and dyed hair and weird piercings. A lack of discipline and maybe a way to covertly advertise for a “bad-boy”, while trying to appease the feminist overseers with a pretense of equality or fem-powerment.

  16. Wow, I thought I had heard of everything, that is just unreal…couldn’t believe this line:

    “I’ve had sex with their 14 year old boys to make them men, I’ve drank cups of c*m and have smeared my face with their sh*t. So to all you ladies that are going to bash me.

    I’m 24 years old and have 1 million dollars liquid in my bank account. I’m now retired and can have normal sex with whomever I want.”

  17. @LeeLee

    “I think we want to be hazed,actually”

    GAH!!!! The Male shit test!!! YAY!!!!!

    Thank you LeeLee.

  18. @ Morpheus
    Dude, you seriously haven’t heard of Dubai Porta Potties before? You live a very sheltered life, bro.

  19. Millenials are more debased because they’ve already seen everything on porntube and she thinks thats what everyone does. Add feminists telling them like the brave soul honey boo boo…I do what I want! And this is the danger of allowing hollywood to put their politics into movies. They are smearing pure bs fantasy and making people believe that is normal and correct(ie confess your love and not get friendzoned)

  20. Interview with porn director starts at 30:50 an link…
    I don’t think anyone even in the industry enjoys the work this guy creates.

  21. Morpheus, Rollo:
    My gym / weight time is always off cycle to the rest of the world, so pretty much all I see are retirees. Some of them actually work, some just sit around playing with rubber band resistance stuff while they talk about Social Securlty. So I got no data from the gym.

    But most of the college aged men I am around are in pretty weedy shape. They don’t smoke for the most part, but quite a few of them clearly are not lifting anything heavier than a pint of beer.

    The more I learn about Crossfit the less impressed I am: one-size-fits-all solutions don’t do much for me. High Intensity seems to have more promise, provided one is at a suitable core strength baseline.

    World wide T levels allegedly are in decline, few jobs actually require any upper body strength – heck, even being a night stocker at the grocery store a few years ago meant moving boxe around. It would be interesting to just troll a campus for T samples from both sexes, and get 1,000 semi random samples, then graph the results.

    YaReally’s reference to Nancy Friday is right on point. Yet the ‘good girl’ myth is so ingrained into men, I wager a lot of men could read My Secret Garden and all the sequels & come away thinking “well, MY girly isn’t like that”. Snicker. AWALT.

  22. It’s amazing that someone came across a good comment on CH’s blog, and not surprising that one had to go back in time to find it. Most of the comments that can be found there these days are barely above the level of YouTube quality.

  23. @Culum

    “That being said, Millennial Girls seem to possess a capacity for self-loathing and self-destruction I’ve never seen in previous generations.”

    nah. here is the SAME concept PUAs try to convey, applied to something else manosphere-dudes love jacking off about (violence/mayhem among/between men)….but now apply it to female sexuality

    people can be programmed socially to do A WIDE RANGE OF THINGS

    you need to understand that your world and ideas were given to you from a young age, but it’s just a small slice of what’s out there.

    (btw i kno chicks who have done this type of shit —- you start meeting and hanging out with hot girls you’ll run into a lot of strange stuff)

    accept that and this shit doesn’t matter.

    so many guys are afraid of this….

    but it means that YOU CREATE the reality YOU WANT TO CREATE

    women will fall into YOUR reality.

  24. @This Comment Section

    Fuck. To think I actually might be wanting to fuck around with someone who is into this type of shit beneath the eye-liner.

    All I wanted was a fucking blowjob……

    Turns out all the SS-tier women are at least THIS fucked in the head? What does that to them? It’s not just their gender, so what is it? The life of prestige? Of being someone that someone else wants to shit on? And what about their stupid lower B-rank harpy friends? They’re texting each-other on the finer points of timing a specific facial expression as the Chips hit the Fan, so to speak? For their Arab husbands? “Bitch please! Like, who’d shit on YOUR doughy ass?” Tee-Hee!

    How about ‘C” tier? Women who WISH someone would make them feel like a 40k whore by offering to shit on them? “Any Takers?”

    I’ll never look at scary movie the same way again…..

    This is some deep SHIT. Heheheh get it? Man we’re beset by people living in a totally different fucking existence…….

    I was stupid to think of this as a competition.

    Any one of these women could be……and that’s just reality.

    THAT’S the face of women. And it’s smeared in shit.

    LOL I’ma use that. Whenever I see whatever I consider to be SS-tier walking about, I’ll imagine shitting in her mouth as part of the opener.

  25. @ AR, et all re: Lifting….

    * sigh *

    In my experience a troubling majority of young males are physically and mentally soft, and approach life with carefree silliness rivaling women.

    A co-worker of mine serves as a prime example…

    He never looks under the hood of any car he’s ever owned not even out of curiosity.

    He too considers ” working out ” to consist of a treadmill exclusively while practically boasting of ” not being very strong “.

    He dresses like a homeless man with a bushy unkept beard.

    He is incapable of assembling ANYTHING at all.

    Cannot hunt or fish and is sçared shitless of ” wilderness “.

    Has Zero àthletic ability and HATES any kind of sport.

    Is amazingly naive in general.

    He’s like a large 8 year old.

    But the frustrating thing about all of this is the way he smirks and rolls his eyes at any opinion contrary to living the weak ass life he has chosen.

    And with each passing year I encounter more of these ghost men.

    No drive to do shit. No interest in masculinity. A weak, flabby inept mumbling motherfucker.

    Is this the future?

    Fuck….

    Youth wasted on the young. Lol.

  26. “He never looks under the hood of any car he’s ever owned not even out of curiosity.”

    She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named asked, “If your car broke down on the highway, would you blame the car, or the manufacturer.”

    The answer is, of course, neither. You would determine and blame the cause. It takes someone utterly clueless, and who wishes to remain so, to ask the question in that way.

    “He too considers ” working out ” to consist of a treadmill . . .”

    Treadmills exist for one and only one reason – to sell treadmills. That goes double if you actually run. They fuck up your stride.

    “He is incapable of assembling ANYTHING at all.”

    A generation that hasn’t made anything beyond a finger painting.

    We are doomed.

  27. Nicely done Agent P… been there many many times, BP times ended in acrimony, RP times ended in an accepting satisfaction.

    Cats are not dogs.

  28. Btw, the comment quoted in the OP is pure gold.

    I stopped believing in the concept of The Good Girl 40 years ago.

    As I’ve said many times, anything I could have thought up sexually there were always a few chicks more than willing.

    Anything.

    I too think that millennials are different. The ones that I know/know of certainly are.

    Any chance an uninitiated man gets he should indeed jump down this rabbit hole and explore women’s depraved potential actualized or not.

    IMO, it makes a difference in how you will ultimately deal with them.

    Understand what they are fully capable of under given circumstances.

    I’ll repeat from the previous thread … ” they have amazing advance PR..”.

    AWALT. Matter of apparent degree, dependant upon masculine control present.

  29. … Knew a chick that bred Rottweiler’s.

    It worked better after she purchased a female though.

  30. Lol…I won’t do ” storytime ” this go round. Some shit should be forgotten.

  31. My wife had the opening day of her 18 hole women’s golf league yesterday. I got home from work earlier and started reading Franco’s Manual of Seduction after someone’s suggested on the married red pill re: the female stages of manipulation (more about that later). Anyway she had texted me back she was still at the club, so I was chilling before my anticipated dinner night out for our anniversary. She came back home later and was in tears. I ask her why and she wouldn’t open about it. She said it was no big deal, but she was very, very emotionally upset. So I didn’t push her, a good move on my part.

    So I chose a nice restaurant and on the way there she was freaking out about the traffic and was acting scared and nearly in tears. All kinds of road construction around is wreaking havoc this week. She was making comments about the teenagers and college kids texting and being unsafe lately. We were only going about 7 minutes away and traffic was backed way up at a side street. I went to maps on my phone (to confirm a work-around through side streets) and she started freaking about that being unsafe as we were inching along on a 35 mph street.

    We ended up getting there uneventfully and quickly with my detour. The place we hadn’t been to before looked nice as we sat at a table. I ordered a bottle of champagne and we proceeded to have her explain her upset.
    Turns out, she was pissed whatever woman had been in charge of the league did not follow convention by making opening day league play a scramble. Which would have been much easier on her as she is just getting back to playing after back surgery and torn hamstring last year and her stamina was questionable. (she has been golfing great so far this year). And on top of that the format was some idiotic one in which you got 5 points for hitting the drive on the fairway and subtracted points for too many puts. So some of the women were gaming the format and hitting wedges of the tee. (That’s fucked up, but the women are making a mockery of the country club game called golf and my wife was pissed).

    So no big deal. She was upset about that and physically was drained. But the real problem was on the drive home she saw some (chinese) woman get smashed bad on the 45-50 mph road with some bad logistics and drivers taking too many chances lately. EMS workers were feverishly trying to extract her from the car and she was a mess.

    “Women love strong emotions. But there is a corollary: they love strong emotions, but on the condition that everything happens in a relatively safe way. “

    We had a delightful time thereafter. She was in tears as the waiter brought the check. I had to reassure him that she was sobbing about her golf game. And it wasn’t me pushing her buttons the wrong way. Lol.

    Went to the horse racetrack after so she could prep for the Kentucky Derby tomorrow and pick up a program and make a few bets.

    Got home and had no sex. But that was OK because the night before we had a relatively spectacular session (with her wanting it badly). (And her 51 y.o hormonal system sent her into shark week prematurely three weeks after the last one) No big deal. We golfed in couples league opener nine holes with buffet after this evening and the weather was spectacular. She played fantastic and I played average and we came in second in our flight with a husband wife scramble (two person scramble in the foursomes).

    I learned a great bit of game in the fact that I have already picked up lately on this thing that either her or I eliciting bad emotions can be OK if handled properly.

    Which brings me to this chapter I was reading in Franco’s book today and it also ties in with the OP.

    The middle part of this cut and paste is really the heart of the story, but I’ll cut and paste the first part too. The following is basic game, but this Franco guy writes very concisely. The James Bond stuff is corny, but the core message of the roller coaster and the Prince from afar (Dubai) is on target. The reason I post this is because some readers here might need the concise writing. It has all been said before by PUA’s and by Rollo a million times.

    The following is all quoted from the Manual of Seduction by Franco (it is too long so I’m not going to format it):

    “Cocky and funny

    Men without experience in seduction believe that being serious, trustful, sweet and communicative is the right attitude in order to have success with women. This is not so. To have success with women you need to follow this principle:

    Serious and deep communication is something she has to earn!

    Women easily get bored. They are not as good in enjoying repetitive and obvious behavior as men. A woman cannot consider as exciting and attractive a man who opens up to her too much from the beginning.

    With a modern woman from the so-called industrialized countries, it can be a negative thing also when going further in the relationships.

    It is amazing: women say all the time they would like their men to open up to them but they secretly love the ones who do not do so.

    With a modern woman it can be a huge mistake to open up to her too much in a long-term relationship.

    You open up to her? She takes you for granted and starts to feel a deep sense of boredom. Boredom is something a modern woman simply cannot stand. To help you to understand this, I’m going to introduce to you a couple of new concepts:

    1. The “Roller Coaster” concept.

    2. The fantasy of the “Prince coming from afar.”

    Let’s start from the Roller Coaster. Years of experience and hundreds of relationships with women have convinced me of a fundamental fact: women are hedonistic individuals, who get an infinite pleasure when they can feel strong emotions both positive and negative.

    A man who sees a woman cry starts promptly to ask: “Sweetie, what’s the matter? Tell me!” Well he is wrong! Unless there has been a catastrophe on a world scale, almost probably at that moment she is enjoying her emotions. Yes, just like that: she is having fun.

    Women love strong emotions. But there is a corollary: they love strong emotions, but on the condition that everything happens in a relatively safe way. (ed. the original post and Dubai shit?)

    Yes, women love the moment when they have got you pissed off! They feel strong emotions then. They start to worry about you being pissed off only when they notice that the situation is becoming dangerous.

    Practically speaking, women like to feel strong emotions both positive and negative. So if you want to seduce a woman a calm, serious and understanding attitude is exactly the opposite of what you need.

    To seduce her you need to have her feel strong emotions both positive and negative. This feminine trait is exactly the contrary of what a man means when he says: “Don’t break my balls!” A man does not like unstable emotions. A man wants to be in peace.

    This difference between men and women is the cause of many a marriage crisis and misunderstanding between men and women.

    So the right attitude for seducing a woman is: being cocky and funny. Being direct and cocky are Alpha qualities. In that way you demonstrate to her that you are not afraid to “penetrate” her. You show that you consider it a right of yours to be the “owner of the place” where you are.

    The more you are funny and the more you have this attitude – and have her feel strong emotions – the more she gets interested in you. Women fear boredom and emotional deprivation more than death.

    Let’s go now to the “Fantasy of the Prince coming from afar.”

    This is exactly the contrary of what your parents and teachers taught you, but I can tell you for sure that it works with women.

    Do you open up to a woman from the first very moment? Well the answer is NO! The correct answer is a simple and plain NO!”

    Years of experience with women have convinced me that women consider as Alpha and genetically superior the “Mysterious Rider coming from the horizon” and the “Mysterious Prince.”

    The worst approach you can have with a woman if you want to seduce her is to sit at a table in a bar and tell her: “I’m John. I’m a banker and I am completely mad about how beautiful you are.”

    Wrong, wrong! She heard that at least hundred of times during the week before she met you. If you sit at the bar and say: “Listen. Maybe it‘s better we change the bar. I was here a year ago with a lady and she created such a terrible scene. I had to call the police” then you are on the right track.

    When she asks you: “So what do you do?” you answer: “I work in bank twice a year. “ (With a smile, you just said your job is to rob banks) then and only then you are on the right track.

    She is not expecting John, the “beta” nice guy banker.

    Her genetic code is programmed to wait for the Prince coming from afar. A delinquent resembles the Prince in the mind of many women I know, much more than John the “beta banker.”

    Of course, society, women and many academic professionals will repeat this to you until boredom sets in: “A woman needs a protective man who opens up to her emotionally and gives her safety, someone who is trustworthy and she can share things with.”

    If we consider only the socially conditioned part of the woman, that concept “may” be true.

    When we take into consideration, however, the instinctual, genetic and evolutionary part of the woman, I can guarantee that the above attitude will ruin all your relationships with women either right then or some years later.

    Why? Simple: the part of her feeling attracted to you is not the social and conditioned one.

    It is the primordial and evolutionary one as we have been saying since the beginning.

    Her evolutionary detector tells her that the Prince has a superior value compared to John the beta banker and she will behave like that when it comes time to give herself as a woman to a man.

    So, if you want to seduce her you need to put yourself in the same position as the Prince. And how do you do it?

    Simple: communication with her is something she has to earn. In a word: Show to her that your value is superior to hers.

    Keep yourself on the direct, cocky and funny level; make fun of her and do not open up to her too easily. This will keep her sexual excitation and attraction to you at its maximum level. She will feel at her instinctual level:

    “If he makes fun of me and does not give a shit about me, does not tell anything about himself and wants to have fun, that means he is my Prince.”

    You can discuss this with women, if you like. They will tell you for sure that this is not true. You can put this attitude into practice with women. I assure you that then your success with women will grow in an impressive exponential way. On the other hand you can discuss with her seriously the latest financial news and she will consider you a girlfriend or the above mentioned “John the beta banker”: the result will be no sex and no respect from her.

    On the contrary: if you instead make fun of her, are direct, cocky and funny and don’t open up to her too much she, will consider you the Mysterious Prince coming from afar. Then you will take her to bed for sure.

    Try to believe. Instincts work with impressive mathematical precision.

    Let’s go now to a few practical examples of how to be direct, cocky and funny as means for seduction. The formula for success is:

    Cocky and Funny + Your Own Frame.

    When you want to seduce a woman, you need to use your fantasy and create a frame of interaction in which you move and where you have her move with you. It can be anything.

    For example, once I seduced two women at the same time during a trip with the frame: “The Sergeant.”

    In effect I was being cocky and funny with the two women in question behaving like a Sergeant directing his squad. I was giving to them orders as though they were soldiers.

    At first in a lighter cocky and funny way, then harder and harder I began to give them orders. Then I went on leading both women with playful frames like: “When you talk to me you say yes sir! Understand?”

    Slowly they began to enjoy this so much that I was “directing the squad” in that cocky and funny way all the time. Until I gave them the final order: come to bed with me. I simply ordered both of them to make love with me, at the same time!

    Another frame I often use in my seductions is the James Bond frame. After I make a pickup, when I call her the first time I may say on the phone: “My name is Bond, James Bond.” Of course she laughs and considers it a joke, as in part it is.

    She does not see the power in the frame I am using. When later in the interaction she begins to ask me direct questions, when she tries to get information about me, I go on playing harder. I tell her I am on special mission and I cannot give her that information.

    I keep her “on her toes” in that playful way. From there I bring her where I want.

    You won’t believe it, but at the moment, in the circle of my lovers there are at least 3 women calling me: “James” and some of them I call “Lady Bond.”

    Another frame I often use is: “The Godfather.” Out of the blue I may say her: “And remember. Don’t fuck with me Babe. Capisce?”, or: “The waiter treated us like jerks. You want me to shoot him in the head, Sweetie?”

    Women love these kinds of interactions. Women love to live their life as though they were all the time in a movie.

    I have even met some women who identify with the frame so much that they have to ask whether I am joking or not.

    Some had to ask me: “Franco, are you a member of the Mafia?” and I tell then: “Do you think I would tell you that, Babe?” In spite of the fact that the starting base of the frame is a joke, you can use the frame to direct her “kindly” to where you want.

    As an example: when I use the James Bond frame, I first put her in the mental state of being in contact with a mysterious spy. Then I start to call her Lady Bond, so she gets used to the idea of being my lover.

    From there I bring her where I want.

    Women love this kind of approach because they have been made to feel guilty for their sexual desire for centuries. For them is much easier to make love with me if they are “in love with an irresistible spy” than because they have a tremendous need to have a “great fuck” with me as many men would express the whole situation. ”

    End of quoted Franco.

    As I was typing this I was listening to this:

    “Any Major Dude Will Tell You”

    I never seen you looking so bad my funky one
    You tell me that your superfine mind has come undone

    [Chorus:]
    Any major dude with half a heart surely will tell you my friend
    Any minor world that breaks apart falls together again
    When the demon is at your door
    In the morning it won’t be there no more
    Any major dude will tell you

    Have you ever seen a squonk’s tears? Well, look at mine
    The people on the street have all seen better times

    [Chorus]

    I can tell you all I know, the where to go, the what to do
    You can try to run but you can’t hide from what’s inside of you

    [Chorus]

  32. @ Blax

    re: modern men’s ineptitude

    I feel like I’m a part of a dying art. A lot of what I do in my trade is by eye and feel. You get good simply through experience and effort.

    They sell tools that are supposed to “help,” but they’re mostly marketing BS that pussyfoots around the truth: that there’s no substitute for experience.

    One guy was asking me how to do a certain job. I said the only real way to do it is by eye and by feel. He said he thought that was ‘tedious and inaccurate.’

    I’ve seen guys go at that job with dial calipers and feeler gauges and all they do is end up getting pissed off and/or coming out with a mediocre end result.

    You can use those things as a guide, but the problem is when people are DEPENDENT on formulas/presets from some tutorial or something they read online instead of using common sense or the power of their own observation.

    It’s like in today’s world, everything has to be measurable and ‘scientific’ so it can be immediately understood. And if there isn’t a quick and easy Google search to give you an answer, well, then it must be worthless.

    The nuance of artisan level work is going the way of the dinosaur. To the point where people just don’t get it anymore.

    “That sounds tedious and inaccurate.”

    That sums up that mentality perfectly: everything has to be quick and easy, or it can’t possibly be ‘correct.’ They just want an answer like “You buy this tool, then line it up like this, then you do that, and you’re done.”

    The reality is you’re gonna have to spend a long time fucking up, not understanding why you’re fucking up, and then gradually learning why you’re fucking up, then how to not fuck up, then to start the process of actually getting good at it.

    And after all that process, which could take years, you’ll learn a lot and gradually feel a sense of pride and genuine accomplishment, along with coping skills for dealing with the frustration of complicated, difficult projects that require a lot of trial and error and time and effort and planning and re-planning.

    “Tedious and inaccurate.”

    Might as well say, “You mean I have to put effort and time into this? And I can only do a good job after I’ve gotten experience doing it? I can’t just plug it into a computer or measure it and lay it out with a special tool and have it work perfectly the very first time I try???? Wat?! **Does Not Compute**”

    Lol

  33. I was recently talking to a co worker about a young (early 20’s) woman we both work with. She was telling me how this girl likes to travel. Dubai being one of her favorite destinations. You know, for scenery and whatnot. Other places she’s been in the past year include Thailand, and Brazil. Pretty amazing to do all that traveling, and pay your bills at home, while making $25/hr. It’s funny, out of all of the people I know at work making that wage, none of them can afford to do that much traveling. When I started hearing some of the details, my first thought is that the Dubai trips fund the others. My guess is that she found the right price for selling her ass. Never underestimate the ability of a woman to rationalize her actions, especially when sex, and money are involved.

    I’ve had several conversations in the past year with “good girl”, college educated women who’ve said they would be open to a sugar daddy situation, to gather resources before they settle into an LTR, and start having babies. It’s common now to hear women talk openly about their strategies.The current culture affords women the option of openly stating that sort of thing, many times without fear of retribution. After all, it’s the age of “fempowerment”. I discovered long ago that if I project a relaxed, no judgement attitude, women are happy to tell me nearly anything. Women I work with have told me stories about affairs (theirs), game plan for a ONS, without be labelled a whore, drug use, etc.

    Initially, I was shocked, and angry when the picture started coming into focus. At this point, I’m grateful that it’s so obvious. Instead of trying to disconnect (MGTOW), I’m choosing to use it to my advantage, and build a better man. Myself. It’s allowed me to develop an approach to women (and life in general) that’s rooted more in pragmatism than idealism. It’s an ongoing project, but it’s one I see now as a challenge, and not as a burden to bear. Life is good.

  34. So things like Amber Rose and her slutwalks are her actually asking to be rescued from them

  35. @Scray – I didn’t write that post, I just reposted it from the mega-thread on the Roosh forum because this particular post stood out to me.

    When you say you know “girls who’ve done this type of shit”, do you mean you know girls who’ve gone to Dubai to be shat on for $$$ and blown dogs (literally), or just your common/garden hot girl sugar baby who was sponsored by some rich guy in college and banged a few NFL/NBA stars on the party circuit?

    If the former I’d be really interested in hearing how you think those experiences affected their psychological makeup..that’s pretty much the content of the whole mega thread on Roosh but I don’t trust most of those posters because they tend to have enormous Madonna/whore complexes (the comment I did post from there was the exception)

  36. It is hard to be good. It’s not so hard to be a virgin for your husband when you’re young because you don’t know any different. But women at older ages or stages find it much more difficult. I found that the culture did not support celibacy. Without parents/friends to help me, I essentially locked myself away in my house for five years knowing I couldn’t be trusted. It was worth it.

  37. @LeeLee

    My concept of myself as a good submissive wife would be much more intricate and dark, and feelings based.

    This is a very intriguing comment, but I need some word pictures to flesh it out.

  38. “ the social engineering that’s led to feminine-primacy”

    Great article!!

    I often wonder if we are not over thinking this. TRM is by far the best of the manosphere by but I really wonder if we are over intellectualizing gender relations in the US.

    I sometimes think it’s a simple matter of American women being the product of our society and American men who worship women, pedestalize them, spoil them, and turn them into these ugly little spoiled entitled brat (often fat) children. I think it all starts with American dads who spoil their little princesses (and take pride in doing it).

    Lets face it: American women are the worst. And that we must go through these intellectual gymnastics to understand them seems to be proof. Are we not like slaves trying to understand the fickle master? American women are so awful that, when you go to Europe or Asia, upon return you must re-acclimate yourself to American women. Think about that.

    I first heard the phrase “re-acclimate yourself to American women” from a Vietnam vet who regaled me with great stories of the Asian women he had during his service in the late 1960s. I didn’t understand him until I went there. In those nations, you don’t have to dominate and game a woman. You don’t have to be an alpha male to get submission. There, it’s part of the culture that women take pride in pleasing their men and beta males have access to feminine women and sex.

    I read TRM all the time. Three of my buddies are Red Pill and we discuss the mamosphere issues all the time. But I really wonder if we are trying to understand women as women or attempting to understand American women?

    “Heaven is: American Salary, Chinese Cook, British House, Japanese Wife.

    Hell is: Chinese Salary, British Cook, Japanese House, American Wife.”

  39. That’s the strange thing about having many close female friends. It’s great to be able to have straightforward, honest communication and relationships but lawd the things you will see and hear.

    Everyone has an inner Vader. There’s nothing wrong with that it’s normal.

    What’s referred to as ” base ” behavior or instincts are a normal part of your make up.

    It’s helpful to control the base aspect to stop it from having unpleasant and unintended consequences. It’s ridiculous to try to fully suppress or eliminate it. You might snap…lol.

    Embrace to gain full understanding.. Do not carry shame or loathing concerning who you are in total. You do not have to express or act on every thought or feeling or inclination.

    Most women understànd this much from a fairly early age. Society used to act in tamping down physical expressions of unbridled feminine expression because such expression must be guided, tempered and controlled by masculine guidance and skill to prevent the clusterfuck of emotion driven chaos that the female mind is fully capable of.

    The controls have been steadily removed since the 1960’s.

    As interesting as this all is to watch ( and occasionally participate in ) there is no possible scenario where unrestricted female sexuality will ever end in anything but disaster for society/culture at large.

    But as a man, I am more idealistic. I hope and wish against evidence and my own understanding.

    ….somehow.

    I should be excited to know that all manner of sex is available outside my front door dependent upon my skill and will to procure if.

    Mostly though that realization only serves to make me want to bang my wife with gusto and work on a watercolor landscape or refinish some furniture.

    But I appreciate the strangers that would rim my ass while barley knowing my name. Everybody needs something to be passionate about.

  40. I may be overreaching here, but this is something that just dawned on me. I’ve been working out…lifting weights for 20+ years. I’ve noticed recently at my gym I just don’t see many guys younger than me (mid to late 20s, 30s) really hitting the weights…heck I see more guys who look like hipsters on the treadmill. It would be interesting to see what percentage of men are active weight trainers from say 1970 to present. I’d bet it ramped up with the mainstream popularity of Arnold and has actually declined over the last 10-15 years.

    I’d say it’s declining among men as a whole, and it’s on the rise among the eroding segment of men that are making conscious and active efforts to have casual sex with women. There are probably two, seemingly contradictory trends at work.

    The popularity of lifting is one natural male reaction to the emergence of the matriarchy, because the matriarchy rewards alpha roles while ignoring or even discouraging the beta provider role. When physical prowess and aggressiveness is the main male way to compete on a matriarchal sex market, lifting becomes popular.

    I suppose you’re living in a community where marriage is still largely intact and monogamous family formation is the norm. That might explain your experiences.

  41. He’s like a large 8 year old.
    But the frustrating thing about all of this is the way he smirks and rolls his eyes at any opinion contrary to living the weak ass life he has chosen.
    And with each passing year I encounter more of these ghost men.
    No drive to do shit. No interest in masculinity. A weak, flabby inept mumbling motherfucker.

    He has no interest in masculinity because he lacks innate masculinity, and nobody incentivizes him to develop and display masculine attributes. There was a time when even men like him were needed as farmers, soldiers, factory workers, fathers, husbands, and were therefore manipulated, controlled and incentivized to adopt and display traits that were seen by society as masculine. But those times are over, and the majority of men lack innate masculinity.

  42. Feminism, at it’s core, is basically: “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!”

    Except that society doesn’t want her to be a good girl anymore. There was a time when it did, when it needed her to fulfill the role of a competent mother who raises 3-5 well-adjusted, psychologically healthy, productive children.

  43. Functionally, the problem with defining hypergamy as an evolutionary development is that it eliminates any moral context to this. And, yet, there is in the back of most men’s minds a moral context into which this behavior is trying to be fit.

    While I applaud Rollo’s efforts and the incredible work he’s done to create a cohesive syntax to objectively identify and explain hypergamy, the one issue I have with it is the fundamental premiss. Hypergamy is not an evolved trait, it’s a curse. For thousands of years, the guys studying the Scriptures would look at Genesis 3:16 and not understand what it meant because for pretty much all of history there have been social structures that were strong enough to restrain women’s hypergamy. This restraint was most often achieved through economically driven cultural and social forms, but at heart it was economic.

    What we’ve seen in the past century is the perfect storm in which women achieved economic independence from men, political independence through suffrage and social independence through politically mandated feminism. This has allowed the observation of unchecked hypergamy for probably the first time in recorded history. It’s funny, but given that Oxford University awarded Ray Sutton a PhD for writing “That You May Prosper” I think Rollo deserves the same honor for what he’s done with “The Rational Male” books in terms of his research and analysis of hypergamy.

    But my point is that it’s not an evolutionary development, it’s a curse. “Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you.” So much there for those who look. Theologians argued for centuries over the meaning of the word “desire” because it’s only used in two other places, one as a desire for control and the other as a sexual desire. Which one should it be? Understanding hypergamy allows us to see that it’s both.

    Women were cursed with a need and desire to be ruled. They desire a man who is fit to rule them. Assuming some attraction (women don’t shit test losers) they first try to control him to establish whether he is fit to rule them. We call that shit testing. When he blows through those shit tests and establishes his fitness, the desire becomes a sexual desire because they know he is fit to rule them. And they want to be ruled. Even if it’s only for 5 minutes.

    The paradigm shift comes in recognizing hypergamy as a curse, by God, on women. In theory all evolutionary developments should be beneficial and when one is looking at applied uncontrolled hypergamy, that’s a problem. Because regardless of which particular rationale one chooses, looking at the data it’s pretty much impossible to find the benefit to anyone- either long term or short term from an evolutionary perspective.

    Reframing this to a Bibliocentric model, the answer is simple: God cursed women because of what Eve did. Is it still in effect? Well, do snakes still crawl on their bellies and do women still bring forth their children in pain? Do women have a desire to be ruled? QED. But within the frame of hypergamy as a curse the perspective of what we are seeing changes and now it’s far easier to put all this into a moral context. Because assuming an evolutionary origin (while I think the general theory of evolution is bullshit, species adaptation is real and that means women have had 6 or 7 millenia to adapt to the curse) creates a condition that’s free from a moral context. Which is what the theory of evolution was designed to do: remove God from the picture and allow us to ignore the church and stick our dicks in anything we wanted to. That’s what Aldous Huxley said. I tend to believe him.

    Which is hilarious because virtually everything the church has taught about sex and marriage for the past 1500 years is a lie. We’ve got people fighting against a “biblical morality” that doesn’t actually exist in the Bible. 1600 years ago a couple of guys named Augustine and Jerome and a bunch of their buddies literally made this shit up based on pagan beliefs, Stoic philosophies and Roman law. And everyone loved that shit back then so that’s what the church taught. And because the guy with the funny hat claims he’s infallible, once they bought into that shit they had to own it. And every time they got called out on it, they doubled down. Why? Because the core philosophy behind what the church teaches about sex and marriage breaks down to two points- first, that sex is a sin and sexual pleasure is evil and the bane of all existence. Second, this philosophy is conserved and taught by a bunch of guys who have one particular thing in common- their vows of celibacy.

    And when you recognize that hypergamy is something that God did, that it’s a curse, and then you look hard at how God actually set things up in terms of His rules for sex and marriage… wow. The design God gave us (the one the church replaced with their pagan, stoic and roman bullshit) allows for hypergamy and controls hypergamy quite nicely. Oh- and the plan that the church gave us? The church literally created feminism because the doctrines they adopted created the concept of a uniform sexual morality for both men and women and enforced it. In opposition to what God actually said.

    I write this, not to try to evangelize anyone, but to point out that adopting the frame of “Hypergamy is a Curse by God” points to God’s design for sex and marriage, which actually controls hypergamy. What we have today created feminism and allows hypergamy to run unchecked, laying waste to the culture and society. Easy way to remember this: What the church teaches about sex and marriage is almost the opposite of what God said on all the major points.

    This all boils down to the question of how to control hypergamy. The answer is that you can’t do it with force. Sure, force might work for a while, but as history has shown us it will fail. We see the evidence of that right now. No, the way to control hypergamy is to use a form of relationship judo that causes the woman’s hypergamic impulses to motivate her to control herself. Because she wants to- not because she’s forced to. The word is to describe this is competition. Women compete with women. They always have and they like their competition and all the drama that goes with it. What the church did was impose a system that killed the natural competition of women. A system called monogamy. The system God set up is a dualistic system in which the majority of marriages are monogamous, but polygyny is allowed. In other words, committing to marriage with the woman did not require the man to give up his right to say “Next!”

    Wife can’t have kids? Get another wife. Wife hits menopause and refuses to have sex because it hurts? Get a younger wife. Wife is a spectacular bitch? Get another wife. Ask yourself- what woman wants to endure the shame of having her husband very publicly take a second wife, and how might that effect her behavior within the relationship? If you know anything about market forces you already know the answer. But I’m talking about what is actually in the Bible, not what the guys in dresses and funny hats teach, which has infected virtually every church you can find today.

    Monogamy today is an *enforced* monopoly condition that removes all incentive for good behavior by the person with the monopoly on the services provided. That would be the wife. But it isn’t just the threat of another wife. There is nothing in God’s Law that prohibits a man from the use of a prostitute. Likewise, because a man has the authority to take a second wife and because a man initiates a marriage by having sex with wife, a man is authorized to have sex with any woman he is eligible to marry whether he’s married or not. Under certain conditions, this can result in the husband having sex with a woman and it doesn’t result in marriage and neither is it forbidden or a sin. Dread game at it’s finest, right there in the Bible.

    By forbidding another wife and by forbidding the husband from obtaining sex from any woman other than his wife, the husband was robbed of the authority God granted him and that weakened his position with respect to his wife. Which condition she promptly abused because she no longer had any competition to keep her honest. It’s sad, but when I mention polygyny there is this general reaction of men and women thinking that I mean *every* man should have more than one wife. No, that’s not correct. In fact, it’s impossible. But monogamous relationships need the option of polygyny in order to give the women (wives) the incentive they need (created by the continued competition with other women) to be good, faithful and pleasing wives.

    Remove the option of polygyny and you remove the wife’s accountability by removing her competition. That simple.

    By forbidding all the options God gave to the husband, this created the condition in which divorce, which was not allowed under God’s design (that’s a long story) became necessary. And, again, the women won. If there are sufficient problems in the marriage that the man brings in another wife, there is no person other than the first wife to shoulder the blame. Because everyone knows that bringing in a rival wife causes problems. So if the husband was willing to put up with the problems of having a rival wife in his house, everyone knows it must have been bad with just the first wife and that first wife has to shoulder the blame and suffer the public shaming of being a failure.

    With God’s design, even though the husband brought in another wife, the family was preserved. The children were being raised by their biological mother and (hopefully) father. The husband kept his vows even though that wife who vowed to honor and obey him didn’t. In this, while bearing the responsibility for the family, the husband has acted honorably. He bears no blame.

    Not so with divorce. Left with no other option, an intolerable situation forces the issue of destroying the marriage in which neither husband or wife want to be married to each other. Doing so violates all the vows that were taken, destroys the family and separates parents from their children. And because the husband is the head of his house, he bears the responsibility and is therefore required to shoulder at least some (if not most) of the blame. Which allows women to avoid responsibility.

    tl;dr

    -Hypergamy is a curse, by God, on women; not an evolutionary development.
    -Feminism was created 1500 years ago by churchian perverts who hated sex.
    -The system of monogamy controlled women by force until they got suffrage
    -The system is broken, feminism won, hypergamy runs wild.

    -None of this will be fixed by returning to TradCon Churchian values because that’s what created this problem is the first place.

    -The solution is to explore and implement a coherent system of marriage and sexual morality that controls hypergamy and destroys feminism. Conveniently we have that in the Bible.

    Cupcake: “You mean to tell me that God says I’m supposed to stay home and be a faithful wife while my husband is out screwing that widow-woman down the road?”

    <Toad: “Cupcake, take a look in the mirror, take a look at how clean the house is and ask yourself when was the last time you “allowed” him to have sex with you. Ask yourself how often you say “no” when he wants you to do something, anything, or even when the last time you displayed any affection toward him and then tell my why he’s down the road banging the neighbor instead of staying home with the woman he loved enough to marry. No, don’t bother, I’ll tell you.

    Cupcake, you forgot to feed the dog.”

  44. I’m not going to disagree with YaReally’s argument, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to hold up “My Secret Garden” as great proof. From Wikipedia:

    My Secret Garden: Women’s Sexual Fantasies is a 1973 book compiled by Nancy Friday, who collected women’s fantasies through letters and taped and personal interviews. After including a female sexual fantasy in a novel she submitted for publishing, her editor objected, and Friday shelved the novel. Later, after other women began writing and talking about sex publicly, Friday began thinking about writing a book about female sexual fantasies, first collecting fantasies from her friends, and then advertising in newspapers and magazines for more.

    Women that are willing to speak about their sexual fantasies in taped interviews, or write about them in response to a newspaper ad, are probably not representative of all women.

  45. @hoellenhund2

    “The popularity of lifting is one natural male reaction to the emergence of the matriarchy, because the matriarchy rewards alpha roles while ignoring or even discouraging the beta provider role. When physical prowess and aggressiveness is the main male way to compete on a matriarchal sex market, lifting becomes popular.”

    Comment of the year. Incredible insight.

  46. Blaximus
    “He too considers ” working out ” to consist of a treadmill . . .”

    Probably why the gyms have a whole bank of them. Maybe he’s stuck in that 1970’s “running is all you need” mindset.

    kfg
    Treadmills exist for one and only one reason – to sell treadmills. That goes double if you actually run. They fuck up your stride.

    Have never liked those things, to me they are weird even at walking pace.

    It is interesting to me how many people I know are stuck on some past piece of information – the USDA 1980’s food pyramid, the 1970’s “aerobics” routine, etc. It’s like a really deep neural pathway was formed and it ain’t going away, no matter how many countering facts are shown.

    There’s definitely a “blue pill” aspect to a lot of knowledge.

  47. Blaximus
    “He is incapable of assembling ANYTHING at all.”

    kfg
    A generation that hasn’t made anything beyond a finger painting.

    I wonder. Millennials like to brag on their technosavvy, but most of what I see people doing is swiping or dragging and dropping. Installing apps on a phone or a tablet is not really that hard.

    Funny thing is, I’ve repaired or refurbished several machines of various sorts just by trawling the web – YouTube vids, special interest websites, etc. can teach a lot of things to a man who knows how to learn. As with lifting, ya gotta want to do it.

  48. Rollo,

    You always say that you focus on the theory and concepts behind the Red Pill and Game, not on the actual practical application. Who would you recommend most in terms of reading up on that practical application? I’m recently out of an LTR that I had coming out of the very tail end of college, where previously I had very easy access to a large number of women. I used many of the concepts you teach here to great effect: the shy muslim girl I dated went from being terrified of wearing dresses around me to absolutely worshiping my dick, enamored with the masculine strength I provided her as a ‘rock’ for her tumultuous sea of emotions to break over. Now that I’m out into the world, I’m either rusty or the whole situation is completely different, but I’m in desperate need to shore up on my pick up skills.

  49. life is 20% game and 80% being jacked

    [An ideal physique triggers an emotional response]

  50. @hoellenhund2

    “I’m not going to disagree with YaReally’s argument, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to hold up “My Secret Garden” as great proof. From Wikipedia:
    My Secret Garden: Women’s Sexual Fantasies is a 1973 book compiled by Nancy Friday, who collected women’s fantasies through letters and taped and personal interviews. After including a female sexual fantasy in a novel she submitted for publishing, her editor objected, and Friday shelved the novel. Later, after other women began writing and talking about sex publicly, Friday began thinking about writing a book about female sexual fantasies, first collecting fantasies from her friends, and then advertising in newspapers and magazines for more.
    Women that are willing to speak about their sexual fantasies in taped interviews, or write about them in response to a newspaper ad, are probably not representative of all women.”

    just 96.6666%
    Go meet more women and be non judgemental.

  51. Hey Rollo, that In The Moment song is awesome. Check out their song from the same album called “Whore.” It’s a good one too.

    I’m a big hard rock fan, and I dated a girl into that band, and the lead singer has to be a major Alpha Widow, because just about all her lyrics are about it.

    I agree. I can picture LeeLee getting rammed like Drago pounding Khaleesi and that song is in the background! 😂😂😂😂

  52. @Fop, hit up YaReally for the Game application side of things – he’ll probably respond to you in this thread as it is, but he’s probably the best complement to TRM when it comes to Game-in-action.

  53. @Toad, I understand your want to apply religious conviction and mythic lore to intersexual dynamics. You’re no stranger to my commentaries on Dalrock’s posts so I won’t belabor my take on the Christo-Red Pill. You can use Judeo-Christian context to describe intersexual dynamics, but that religious branch by no means has a monopoly on the same want to describe and define male and female relations.

    That’s not to be dismissive, but rather it’s important to understand that ever since men saw the full moon outside their caves or believed the sun was a “God” they’ve attempted to understand intersexual dynamics from a metaphysical frame. That’s the deep, existential and socio-sexual crisis men have about passing on their genetic legacy. It’s so important that it comes naturally to invoke a higher power to understand it.

    We’re probably not going to agree on the reasons why men want a metaphysical answer to this problem, but it does confirm exactly what I’ve always said about men’s want for deductive solutions to problems – even when they need to imagine a solution it’s always come to deductively.

    The problem with believing intersexual dynamism with women is a curse is that you still make the mistake of appealing to reason to solve the problem of that “curse”. There’s a real anxiety over whether what I connect in my writing points to some kind of determinism that opposes ‘freewill’ (or what passes for it), but that’s not the point of it. The point is to understand what’s under the hood, instead of just being content that the car does or doesn’t run.

    Whether or not you use magical thinking or deductive reasoning you’re simply not going to alter the fundamental realities of women’s natures by asking them to change their behaviors in a way that contradict an evolved impulse that’s literally responsible for the success of our species. There are certainly social and psychological schema that can, and has, alter that behavior, but you’re not going to change the reality of an environment by asking it to be different to suit your sensibilities and abilities.

  54. @artisanaltoad

    It is only a “curse” in man-speak.

    “Because regardless of which particular rationale one chooses, looking at the data it’s pretty much impossible to find the benefit to anyone- either long term or short term from an evolutionary perspective.”

    That’s like saying that tumors, cysts, bubbles, and zits have feelings.

    Pop.

    In Madonna-speak it’s a blessing on women.

    In whore-speak it’s a blessing on men.

    Just don’t expect to actually build anything.

  55. From the Reddit mirror thread:

    I slept with a married woman, she said she was married for 10 years and had only ever had her husband . I was not the first guy she looked to fuck, just the first to actually go through with it .

    “I just wanted to not feel like such a mom”

    She gave me a long winded explanation how her husband had planted the seed of infidelity in her head and prior to that she mentioned offering herself up and he was completely disintersted(…..sure…). But her ultimate thought was that simple explanation “i just wanted to not feel like such a mom”.

    If i had ‘t decided to use condoms she was encouraging the idea of me cumming inside her (no birth control no nothing) and she was filthy and fun.

    If a woman with an n-count of 0 can decide to be wreckless a d kill her good girl image 10 years down the line there really is no hope for todays women . Death to the good girl and i guess death to the good wife as well

  56. Blaximus,

    No 8 year old I ever knew (my young self included) was “scared shitless of ‘wilderness'” or “hated any kind of sport”.

    Really, you are maligning all previous generations of 8-year-old here…

  57. Ouch Rollo, that is an extreme “Making up for missing out” case there, arguably on par with the reverse “Saving the best” cases which still make me cringe to think about.

    I want to believe that an N=1 wife (technicality, N=0 is a virgin, not a mom) is less likely to not want to feel like such a mom than someone who has already felt like “not a mom” before. I guess it depends on the particular woman if the curiosity (never having felt it) or the nostalgia (having felt it) would be a stronger pull to cheat.

    Also we should be careful not to believe whatever rationalization the woman was using. From her actions, she consciously or subconsciously wanted that contextually alpha TRP guy’s sperm, which rationally is inconsistent with not wanting to feel like a mom!

  58. This, so much THIS! “The boner doesn’t lie, and neither does women’s sexually strategic behavior.” This is what I’m getting now, women’s intersexual/mating behavior is hypergamous and driven inside of them the way my boner is, lol. Sure, some of their post hoc justifications and even superficial behavior and speech is adaptive but the base impulses are almost autonomic. I also get that the reason for the super-slutty behavior is engaged in in the first place is that it’s a way of demonstrating sexual value to a man who THEY have qualified themselves to as a sexual object for the man’s pleasure. As a man who has heard the “I can do stuff with you I can’t do with other men” more than a couple of times, yeah, I got this subconsciously for a while but never understood it. This piece makes it even more clear.

    Although it’s also true that social conditioning wore me down and had me shame those more base impulses and I would wax and wane in how I embraced them throughout the course of my life. I also tried to engage in dominance by obtaining permission to do so at a certain point, and well, that failed completely.

    And THIS: “The trick for men now is to reestablish and embrace a connection to the conventional masculinity that’s been systematically conditioned out of men for 2-3 generations. In fact, there’s no better evidence of this Blue Pill conditioning than the common sense of counterintuitive-ness of embracing a masculinity that puts a man into a position of exercising the dominance women need.”

    The intergenerational aspects of this are very important to consider. In a way, the PUA movement and the Red Pill and TRM itself can be seen as a bottoms up counter-cultural movement that is a reaction to the paradox all this presents the modern man. Interestingly, the more women embrace “the bad girl”, the more demand for men who qualify as lovers there is. However, this flies in the face of the superstructure of “fempowered” sexuality that shames masculinity. I think millenials have watched this kind of craziness play out so much more plainly than guys like me (born in 1962).

    In my case, coupling that with traditional Irish Catholic values that shamed my sexuality utterly and imbued me with a Madonna v. Whore complex and, well, it’s been quite a ride. Younger guys see how completely their Betaness/Blue Pill approach doesn’t work from the outset whereas i had a taste of the traditional “good girl” and the old set of books so my “reference experiences” are completely fucked wrt today’s sexuality, and even the real sexuality of women in the first place.

    What a journey. That’s why it’s immensely cool for me to be in the place I am now. Valuing myself – even as I struggle (am making progress on the biz front and am keeping all my plates spinning in the meantime 🙂 ). In fact, I now value myself because I struggle, I get that part of who I am is that I’m never defeated. I never give up – no matter the challenge, no matter the setback. Even if I “lose”. I had a realization lately that who I wanted to be and who I am is a guy who NO MATTER THE OUTCOME/RESULTS will go out of this world on his feet, not on his knees. Defeat or surrender isn’t an option. I’ll be in this world playing full out just because I enjoy living this way for my own ends. Because it pleases me – not some external sense of who i need to be seen as in this world.

    This inner resolve and calmness and the realistic, game enhanced (however amatuerish at this stage) approach to women is generating startling results with. The HB9 I’ve been “working” – wait, let me correct the language. I’ve stopped working her. Rather, I’m seducing her as a high value, wise man with a rock solid frame and approach to life. She’s 29 yo and stunning, has done an about face with me and is now pulling me towards her with no friction.

    It’s become sweet and fun. I’m learning how to be dominant without “trying” which is what my initial attempts at game looked like. Taking the day off Monday for a secret rendezvous while her BF is away, tee hee. Not about me provisioning in any way. The punch line? “Trying” signals low value inherently. If I’m trying to win her, i’m doomed. If rather, I’m seducing her in a fun way that pleases me most of all, it’s completely different. In a way, it’s really about “being myself” more than any technique (although the self i’m being is different than the desperate, conflicted, sad man I used to be). It’s also just as much about managing the logistics with women. The approaches I do now are always, “who are you here with”, “when do you get off of work” it’s almost like the assumptive sales close in that they get I’m trying to work out how we can get together. No new lays yet but progress for sure. I worked the logistics for the HB9 and voila, she can’t wait for Monday.

    I’m at my favorite cafe today. Approaching has been a bust as it’s graduation day and the hotties are mostly otherwise engaged. Summer means few hotties – but fewer young college guys too. It’s like a different town in terms of approach. Hope you guys are killing it out there!

  59. @Rollo
    you’re simply not going to alter the fundamental realities of women’s natures by asking them to change their behaviors in a way that contradict an evolved impulse that’s literally responsible for the success of our species.

    We don’t need to agree on the metaphysics and what I was talking about has nothing to do with asking women to do anything.

    Women compete with each other, they always have and always will. There is no point in asking them to act in such a way that men might desire if they have no personal motivation to do so. We agree on that. There are way, however, to motivate women to have a desire to act in ways that please men.

    You have observed repeatedly that the best sex a man will get is at the beginning of a relationship and this is tied to the commitment of the man. Once he’s committed, she’s no longer in competition with the other women because his commitment took that off the table. Observationally, that great sex was the result of her competition with other women. By the same token, the decline in the sex correlates perfectly with the decline in her competition for him.

    Extrapolate to the rest of the relationship. Men do not have to ask women to do anything, they need only change *their* definition of commitment. The women can choose to accept or not. That kicks it back over to the man’s value. If a man is high value enough, she will buy into that. Everything else is details, because there is no middle ground. Either the man’s commitment means a complete surrender of options or it means he has options he chooses not to exercise based on her behavior. That defines her competition and every point of her behavior is thus subject to competitive forces at one level or another.

    The only way for her to win her competition is to give him what he wants, otherwise her competitor will. When it’s built into the system the women (who desire to win the competition) are motivated to be the kind of women men want them to be. Not because of the guy, because of the other women. Because of the competition.

    I have no desire to “alter fundamental realities of women’s nature.” I’m pointing to fact that it is the nature of women to compete. Remove the competition from the relationship (monogamy) to give her a monopoly situation and she has no motivation to please her customer. Remove the monopoly condition and the nature of market competition results in the customer getting more of what he wants. Over time he gets the best she can give. It is not the nature of the entity that changes, it is the the market forces that cause the entity to redirect energy as a result of competition.

  60. So much goodness in the comments. Muh eyes are bulging.

    @AR

    The new ” tech savvy ” crowd crack me up. Most of the self professed techies I deal with are frighteningly one dimensional. You nailed it with the drag and drop. Lmao.

    ” Tech ” now has multiple meanings. There is Jet Propulsion Labs type tech, and fission/fusion type tech, and med/genetic tech….
    Then there is this consumer friendly bastardization tech. It’s kinda like tech but with half the calories.

    Millenials except life lived at lesser levels. There is a thirst for the simple and easy. Understanding stays at cursory levels unless it is with regards to some electronic social phenomenon.

  61. “When physical prowess and aggressiveness is the main male way to compete on a matriarchal sex market, lifting becomes popular.”

    in my experience lifting makes zero difference with women. sports athletic, skinny fat, beer fat, six pack cut, big – I managed to pull with all these body types. it is true when I’m big their hands tend to roam over my muscles more but it really makes no difference for the sex. if a guy is good in bed he’s good in bed no matter what.

    and I don’t think lifting is popular. I lift a few days a week at a university with a good sports program and I always get a rack, pulley and bench no problem no matter what time I’m there. and lots of days I’m the only one deadlifting, pressing and doing pull ups. other days I go to a public gym and there are some big fucking guys there, most of whom are late 20s and older. more competition for equipment but I still always get a rack, pulley and bench. again, not much deadlifting, but way way more pullups and dips. I’m assuming steroid use at the public gym that the college guys can’t get away with. and in both places I see a lot of time wasting, phone use and overall laziness. on PR days you should be fucked up and I never see dudes leaving out of breath and having a hard time walking like I do.

    20-30 minutes a day, a few days a week is all you need and guys still won’t do it. because it’s hard fucking work. of course there are days I don’t want to load up the bar and squat, but I do it anyway. for myself. because it’s hard. and it’s the best preventive medicine in the world. the only problem is you have to administer it yourself. people hate that.

    hearing shit like, “you look like an underwear model” is nice but it doesn’t change the sex. having my wife pull the shower curtain open just to look at my body is nice, but it doesn’t change the sex. frame is all a guy really needs and if you know how to fuck she’ll dig you no matter what kind of shape you’re in.

    as far as the OP goes, bad girls are the best. I fucked my wife in the bathroom of a 150 year old church today. the trick is to get them early so they’ve only ever been bad with you.

    a guy who goes ltr with a bad girl he didn’t create is asking for trouble.

  62. “Men do not have to ask women to do anything, they need only change *their* definition of commitment. The women can choose to accept or not. ”

    agree with Toad big time. commitment meant monogamy for her. not for me. this turns her on

    16 years later I get my cock sucked every day, insanely good passionate sex (4 times yesterday) and hot food every night. and I’m a scumbag

    men with frame win

  63. @scray, yareally, habd, sentient, etc

    What should one keep in mind when a girl is feeling sorry for herself/expressing a desire for comfort? If it’s something silly, I don’t have a problem. But what if it is something that does kinda suck for her, and you can feel your beta shit goblin trying to put you in “comfort bitch” mode to sabotage any progress you’ve made? Examples and theory would both be appreciated.

    And what do you say to a plate when she says she can’t hang out because she has a bf now? I’ve said, “great, happy for you”, which is not untrue, but also seems supplicative and asexual.

  64. Fleezer – so married 16 years? Good for you.

    Do you have any children with her?

  65. betathrowaway

    What is the context?

    I.e. You aren’t going to a and a her Dad dying. You can give comfort from an alpha frame, what you need to do is understand her reason for wanting comfort and see if that is beta bait or not.

    It’s OK to be human.

  66. Toad

    You have observed repeatedly that the best sex a man will get is at the beginning of a relationship and this is tied to the commitment of the man. Once he’s committed, she’s no longer in competition with the other women because his commitment took that off the table. Observationally, that great sex was the result of her competition with other women. By the same token, the decline in the sex correlates perfectly with the decline in her competition for him.

    Part of her drive is to secure commitment, and she will keep up her efforts until she gets what commitment allows – the ultimate payoff, the one true goal

    Now once that deal is done… hold on Starbuck!

  67. If you do feel lifting is important, I recommend the David Spade Lifting program. Here is the ranking:

    http://www.ranker.com/list/women-who-david-spade-has-dated/celebrityhookups

    If you are gay or bi, then lifting is important, and if you evaluate the SVM of a guy based on how jacked he is, then you can guess what that means about you.

    Switching to Rollo, evolution demands that Rollo has a lot of children, since he rates high on the traits evolution wants to pass along. I don’t understand why Rollo wants to fight evolution, in particular why he would spend time lifting instead of fucking multiple women.

  68. @Sentient,

    Context here is that she got really sick at a bar, thinks she might have been roofied, but I’m not certain I agree.
    Really mostly using it as a catalyst to ask you guys about a sticking point I often have taking the beta bait when they show vulnerability.

  69. Betathrowaway

    See context is important. Sick from a bar? Roofied lol… That is pure beta bait. Pffft.

    Good time to make fun of her or just ignore…

  70. And if you don’t think lifting is important it might be because you think it’s about picking up chicks, instead of about this:

  71. @Sentient

    Baby with resting bitch face.

    @YaReally et. al.

    Hey, I got a throwback to PUA game and possibly Mystery Method game.

    I got a buddy that came to the conclusion that I would have recommended to him. And I have thought of this in regards to guys like Forge, Scribblerg, and Sun Wukong (where is Sun? hope you are doing OK and just busy with work or too busy fucking girls…)

    Can they use a girl for a wingman? Is it feasible, workable, valuable? Tips and tricks? Pitfalls?

    Like Forge the Sky’s coworker with a boyfriend (the Lebanese one?) that seemed to want to step out (her subcomms). Can’t he like just go to lunch or dinner or for drinks and have her as a DHV wing? Social circle game. Mystery Method game.

    My buddies deal (he has multiple other prospects. This is just one that seemed to be not worth his time to bang.)

    A HB 8 with a smoking hot bod (9 bod and 5 face) and a social game acquaintance was a target. We both know her and get her to invest in conversation and riposte. IOI’s and she engages with emotion. She’s worth banging until she is logically not going to with him. My buddy is very sentient.

    But she has oneitis for a divorced dad of about 50 years old who refused to commit (we have no knowledge of his qualifications). He was the one up and she was the one down. She’s beside herself in grief (anger mostly with her high self esteem).

    Anyway, my buddy is the last one to be an emotional tampon ever. He has good game, but (hope he’s not listening, is medium height for men and she is tall and long legged for women).

    The question is can he use her for social proof as a wing girl and just use her to go out with as a lets just be friends (his calculation, not hers, because of her situation). Shes 35 and bangable, he’s 55 and has very good game. He has infinite resources–good to excellent finances, great frame and MPO, wonderful social friends and acquaintances.

    Is hanging out with a desirable woman that you don’t judge as serial monogamy potential because she is otherwise invested and you are seeking gaming other women a legit tool in the tool box? Didn’t Mystery do this? Hot babe girl wingman?

    I contemplated this before for married me, but figured I’d get bored. I figure this is a non-starter question for Sentient.

    But I have a desire to be an enthusiastic wingman for my buddies. And I think in theory it would work, but want infield advice.

  72. LOL David Spade… He cracks me up. Quite a player. His list also illustrates the benefits of being an older guy, you have a wide range of women…

    Plenty of really good looking 30’s women, even some 40s, out there if you are in good places. And you dont have to be with them if you dont want. But if you are 50 and want to hit a hot 32 yo… You are in a way better place than a 21 yo guy…

    And it doesnt keep you from hitting a 20 yo girl… Good to be a guy!

  73. Oh and on lifting… Please use moderation.

    Going heavy for heavy’s sake is fucking up your back and knees and shoulders. I know a bunch of guys who are having surgeries now at 55…

    Double knee replacement anyone?

  74. @sjf

    Is hanging out with a desirable woman that you don’t judge as serial monogamy potential because she is otherwise invested and you are seeking gaming other women a legit tool in the tool box?

    yes it is, but she is not a wingman

  75. Double knee replacement anyone?

    kfg’s picture shows the result of lifting and old age

  76. SJF

    Idk… I read that baby’s face as “you serious bro? These are ALL mine… I suck on them whenever I want?!”

    Never had a female wing, most of my game stuff is solo. But back in college it was always great to have a girl on your side helping out.

    Would love it now.

  77. “…evolution demands that Rollo has a lot of children, since he rates high on the traits evolution wants to pass along.”

    Sweet ideological jeezus statement.

    Lol…you just made up your own little interpretation of how mother nature works. There is a difference about how things were set up to evolve and how they did evolve. Good luck on understanding the theory, science, facts and Darwinist interpretations over that.

    I doubt you get out and observe how Mother Nature really operates–yes get out in the woods and observe nature and wildlife. It is not as pretty as human society pretends to be but isn’t. It is about as ugly as red pill awareness is.

    If you were a girl, you would be best instructed to stop making shit up. If you are a man, you shouldn’t misuse science or logic–you are making a logical fallacy in an attempt to derogate Rollo. Good luck with that.

  78. @SJF

    saying that Rollo rates high on the traits that evolution wants to pass along is not derogating him, it is quite the opposite

  79. “you’re simply not going to alter the fundamental realities of women’s natures by asking them to change their behaviors in a way that contradict an evolved impulse that’s literally responsible for the success of our species.”
    Rollo this has been the child’s inside me’s issue since learning about the red pill…

    Yeah this is painful please grow up and move on.

  80. If you do feel lifting is important, I recommend the David Spade Lifting program. Here is the ranking

    Logic 101 massive fail. Outliers/exceptions don’t prove the general rule. David Spade is a celebrity so he ranks high on social status, and for all I know he might be as charismatic as Casanova.

    The whole “lift or not” really ties back into the whole do looks matter to women? I just roll my eyes and shrug my shoulders. Sure, guys can improve along other dimensions to increase success with women because looks are not the magic bullet, and other things can boost a guy’s overall attractiveness. I graduated college as a very overweight virgin, but I got lucky in the height department along with some other physical factors (my wife jokes I have her trinity of hair, skin, teeth). I spent the next year out of college lifting hard and getting in shape, changed my wardrobe. Soon thereafter I had landed a solid 8-8.5 GF, and I was routinely getting opportunities with 8+s. Now ironically, I still basically had zero game so I fucked up a lot of opportunities, but the opportunities WERE ONLY THERE because I had completely transformed how I looked.

    Anyways, to me, one of the most important if not the single most important aspect of the Red Pill is the idea of self-improvement, making yourself better. Looking better, exercise and lifting, etc. is JUST ONE component of that self-improvement, but it is perhaps the easiest with the highest return on investment. It is the low hanging fruit. Developing the social status of David Spade is going to me a bit more difficult if you are just Joe Blow cubicle worker.

    2 guys are in the forest with a bear. The one guy just has to outrun the other, not the bear. The same principle holds true with women. It is remarkably easy to vault yourself into the top 10-20% of men simply because the other 80-90% are so lazy and indifferent to improving in any meaningful way, and physical development is just one component of bettering yourself relative to the competition. Again, it isn’t the magic bullet, but it boggles my mind why so many guys are reflexively against it, or discount it entirely.

  81. David Spade is a celebrity so he ranks high on social status

    Note that in the celebrity status rankings, David Spade actually does not rank that high. Actresses do NOT want to be on the red carpet with David Spade.

  82. rugby, best part:
    Being a porn star is what Sky wants. She makes good money, she doesn’t get bossed around by a suit, and she has time to attend college (majoring in women’s studies).

    Majoring in women’s studies? Perfect.

  83. Oh and on lifting… Please use moderation.
    Going heavy for heavy’s sake is fucking up your back and knees and shoulders. I know a bunch of guys who are having surgeries now at 55…

    +1000, the key is good form and letting muscular tension do the work, not momentum and bouncing the weights. And just to be clear I don’t think the “jacked” look and by that I mean some ridiculous look like Rich Piana, but something more like the guy from Athlean

  84. “Is hanging out with a desirable woman that you don’t judge as serial monogamy potential because she is otherwise invested and you are seeking gaming other women a legit tool in the tool box? ”

    Ok. I totally said that wrong due to lack of writing skills.

    Hot babe. Number rating is strict and doesn’t do justice to the actual boner test. She is boner test turned up to 11. She would never not pass the boner test if you were in close proximity.

    Rephrase. She not going to bang my buddy (he know’s the score analytically). It is definitely not a matter of limiting beliefs. Take me on that premise. He doesn’t subscribe to limiting beliefs but is a pragmatist and has options (limited to the state of women today).

    What we have here is a reverse LJBF because of his GAME. He doesn’t need her, but he can put her to work as a tool in his toolbox of game. He has to hang out anyway with all his free time and abundance. Why not hang out with a HB. He has good networking skills and doesn’t need her but was wondering about investing in the time with her as wing-girl.

    He has nothing to lose. Is not sniping. Is outcome independent always. He DNGAF about her LJBFing him (that never happened, he is the chooser), he is LJBFing her pragmatically.

    Distill it down to the basics. He is the prize. Is it worth the social proof and DHV? Not theory, praxeology. What works.

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