Tribes

tribes

I received this email some time ago, but I felt it needed some serious consideration to give the concept the justice it deserved.

Rollo — You’ve been a major help to my understanding the underlying dynamics between men and women. I’ve observed them in bits and pieces over the years but never really understood the whys behind them or how to turn them in our favor.

It seems like one mid-term focus you have is on male-male dynamics, specifically fathers and sons. But I also wonder whether you’d consider writing more about bonding and support between men and how those relationships can anchor men’s lives at a time when male relationships are regarded with skepticism by larger society. Lately it’s struck me that men tend to innately trust the men they know and distrust those they don’t (and that it’s often the reverse for women). This inclines us to believe women when they decry the “assholes” who have mistreated them in the past while women are empathetic and credulous toward women whose character they don’t know and whom they’ve never met.

Many of us out here are lacking strong male relationships, and our small social circles translate to fewer men we innately trust and more men we innately don’t. Women seem to regard male friendships as a luxury at best–we should be focusing on career, family, and her needs–while women’s friendships are seen as a lifeline in their crazy, have-it-all world. Indeed, a man discouraging his SO’s friendships is widely seen as a sign of emotional abuse, whereas the reverse is “working on the relationship.”

This strikes me as a deep but largely untapped Red Pill well and could provide essential guidance for men looking to live a proud, constructive Red Pill life however women and children might fit into it. I’d definitely welcome your insights in future entries.

Look forward to every post!

Back in February Roosh proposed (and attempted to initiate) a worldwide event that would be a sort of ‘gathering of the tribes’ with the intent of having men get together in small local gatherings to “just have a beer and talk amongst like-minded men.” My impression of the real intent of in putting this together notwithstanding, I didn’t think it was a bad idea. However, the problem this kind of ‘tribes meeting’ suffers from is that it’s entirely contrived to put unfamiliar men together for no other purpose than to “have a beer and talk.” The problem with unfamiliar men coming together simply to meet and relate is a noble goal, however, the fundamental ways men communicate naturally makes the function of this gathering seem strange to men.

Women talk, men Do.

The best male friends I have share one or more common interests with me – a sport, a hobby, music, art, fishing, lifting, golf, etc. – and the best conversations I can remember with these friends occurred while we were engaged in some particular activity or event. Even just moving a friend into his new house; it’s about accomplishing something together and in that time relating about shit. When I lived in Florida some of the best conversations I had with my studio guys were during some project we had to collaborate on for a week or two.

Women, make time with the express purpose of talking between friends. Over coffee perhaps, but the act of communication is more important than the event or activity. Even a ‘stitch-and-bitch’ is simply an organized excuse to get together and relate. For women, communication is about context. They are rewarded by how that communication makes them feel. For Men communication is about content and they are rewarded by the interchange of information and ideas.

[…]From an evolutionary perspective, it’s likely that our hunter-gatherer tribal roles had a hand in men and women’s communication differences. Men went to hunt together and practiced the coordinated actions for a cooperative goal. Bringing down a prey animal would have been a very information-crucial effort; in fact the earliest cave paintings were essentially records of a successful hunt and instructions on how to do it. Early men’s communication would necessarily have been a content driven discourse or the tribe didn’t eat.

Similarly women’s communications would’ve been during gathering efforts and childcare. It would stand to reason that due to women’s more collectivist roles they would evolve to be more intuitive, and context oriented, rather than objective oriented. A common recognition in the manosphere is women’s predisposition toward collectivism and/or a more socialist bent to thinking about resource distribution. Whereas men tend to distribute rewards and resources primarily on merit, women have a tendency to spread resources collectively irrespective of merit. Again this predisposition is likely due to how women’s ‘hard-wiring’ evolved as part of the circumstances of their tribal roles.

From this perspective it’s a fairly easy follow to see how the tendency of men to distrust unfamiliar (out-group) men might be a response to a survival threat whereas women’s implicit trust of any member of the ‘sisterhood’ would be a species-survival benefit to the sex that requires the most parental investment and mutual support.

Divide & Conquer

In our post-masculine, feminine-primary social order it doesn’t take a Red Pill Lens to observe the many examples of how the Feminine Imperative goes to great lengths to destroy the intrasexual ‘tribalism’ of men. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution the social press of equalism has attempted to force a commonly accepted unisex expectation upon men to socialize and interact among themselves as women do.

The duplicity in this striving towards “equality” is, of course, the same we find in all of the socialization efforts of egalitarian equalism; demasculinizing men in the name of equality. A recent, rather glaring, example of this social push can be found (where else?) at Harvard University where more than 200 female students demonstrated against a new policy to discourage participation in single-gender clubs at the school. You see, women were very supportive of the breaking of gender barriers when it meant that men could no longer discriminate in male-exclusive (typically male-space) organizations, but when that same equalist metric was applied to women’s exclusive organizations, then the cries were accusations of insensitivity and the banners read “Women’s Groups Keep Women Safe.”

That’s a pretty fresh incident that outlines the dynamic, but it’s important to understand the underlying intent of the “fine for me, but not for thee” duplicity here. That intent is to divide and control men’s communication by expecting them to communicate as women do, and ideally to do so on their own accord by conditioning them to accept women’s communication means as the normatively correct way to communicate. As I’ve mentioned before, the most effective social conventions are the ones in which the participants willingly take part in and willingly encourage others to believe is correct.

Tribes vs. The Sisterhood

Because men have such varied interests, passions and endeavors based on them it’s easy to see how men compartmentalize themselves into various sub-tribes. Whether it’s team sports (almost always a male-oriented endeavor), cooperative enterprises, cooperative forms of art (rock bands have almost always been male space) or just hobbies men share, it is a natural progression for men to form sub-tribes within the larger whole of conventional masculinity.

Because of men’s’ outward reaching approach to interacting with the world around him, there’s really no unitary male tribe in the same fashion that the collective ‘Sisterhood’ of women represents. One of the primary strengths of the Feminine Imperative has been its unitary tribalism among women. We can see this evidenced in how saturated the Feminine Imperative has become into mainstream society and how it’s embedded itself into what would otherwise be diametrically opposed factions among women. Political, socioeconomic and religious affiliations of women (various sub-tribes) all become secondary to the interests of ‘womankind’ when embracing the collective benefits of being women and leveraging both their victim and protected statuses.

Thus, we see no cognitive dissonance when women simultaneously embrace a hostile opposition to one faction while still retaining the benefits that faction might offer to the larger whole of the Sisterhood. The Sisterhood is unitary first and then it is broken down into sub-tribes. Family, work, interests, political / religious compartmentalizations become sublimated to fostering the collective benefits of womankind.

While I can speculatively understand the socio-evolutionary underpinnings of how this psychological dynamic came to be, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out just how effective this unitary collectiveness has been in shaping society towards a social ideal that supports an unfettered drive towards women’s gender-coded need to optimize Hypergamy. This unitary, gender-primary tribalism has been (and is) the key to women’s unilateral social power – and even in social environments where women still suffer oppression, the Sisterhood will exercise this gender-tribalism.

Threat Assessments

Asserting any semblance of a unitary male tribalism is a direct threat to the Feminine Imperative. In The Threat I began the essay with this summation:

Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.

When I wrote this essay I did so from the perspective of women feeling vulnerable about interacting intimately with men who understood their own value to women and also understood how to leverage it. One of the reasons Game is so vilified, ridiculed and disqualified by the Sisterhood is because it puts this understanding into practice with women and, in theory, removes women from the optimization of Hypergamy. Red Pill awareness and Game lessens women’s control in that equation, which is sexy from the standpoint of dealing with a self-aware high SMV man, but also threatening from the perspective that her security depends on him acquiescing to her Frame and control.

Up to this point, Game has represented an individualized threat to women’s Hypergamous control, but there has always been a larger majority of men (Betas) who’ve been easily kept ignorant of their true potential for control. However, on a larger social landscape, the Feminine Imperative understands the risks involved in men forming a unitary tribe – a Brotherhood – based solely on benefitting and empowering men. The manosphere, while still effectively a collection of sub-tribes, represents a threat to the imperative because its base purpose is making men aware of their true state in a feminine-centric social order.

As such, any attempt to create male-specific, male-empowering organizations is made socially synonymous with either misogyny (hate) or homosexuality (shame). Ironically, the shame associated with homosexuality that a fem-centric society would otherwise rail against becomes an effective form of intra-gender shame when it’s applied to heterosexual collectives of men. Even suggestions of male-centered tribalism are attached with homosexual suspicions, and these come from within the collectives of men themselves.

tribalism_1a

The above picture is from an “academic” conference (class?) Mediated Feminisms: Activism and Resistance to Gender and Sexual Violence in the Digital Age held at UCL in London. There’s quite a bit more to this than just collecting and codifying the sub-tribes of the manosphere, more can be found here.

Now, granted, this conference is replete with all of the uninformed (not to mention willful ignorance) concern to be expected of contemporary feminists, but this does serve as a current example of how men organizing for the exclusive benefit of men is not just equated with misogyny, but potential violence. As a unitary collective of men, the manosphere terrifies the Feminine Imperative. That fear, however, doesn’t stem from any real prospective violence, but the potential for a larger ‘awareness’ in men of their own conditions and the roles they are expected to play to perpetuate a feminine-centric social order. They fear to lose the control that the ‘socially responsible’ ignorance of men provides them with.

Men’s predisposition to form sub-tribes and intrasexual competition (“lets you and him fight”) has always been a means of covert control by women, but even still the Feminine Imperative must insert its influence and oversight into those male spaces to make use of  them. Thus, by assuring that feminine primacy is equated with the idea of inclusive equalism, all Male Space is effectively required to be “unisex space” while all-female sub-tribes must remain exclusively female. For an easy example of this, compare and contrast the reactions to Harvard’s unisex institution of campus club equalism to the worldwide reactions to, and preemption of, the “Tribe” meetings only attempted to be organized by Return of Kings in February.

Making Men

By controlling men’s intrasex communications with each other the Feminine Imperative can limit men’s unified, collective, understanding of masculinity and male experiences. Feminine-primary society hates and is terrified of men defining and asserting masculinity for themselves (to the point of typifying it as potentially violent), but as connectivity progresses we will see a more concentrated effort to lock down the narrative and the means of men communicating male experiences.

I’ve detailed in many prior posts how the imperative has deliberately misdirected and confused men about a unified definition of masculinity. That confusion is designed to keep men guessing and doubting about their “security in their manhood” while asserting that the feminine-correct definition is the only legitimate definition of healthy, ‘non-toxic’, masculinity. This deliberate obfuscation and ambiguity about what amounts to ‘authentic masculinity’ is another means of controlling men’s awareness of their true masculine potential and value – a potential that they rightly fear will mean acquiescing to men’s power over their Hypergamous social and personal control. Anything less than a definition of masculinity that fosters female primacy and fempowerment is labeled “toxic masculinity” – literally and figuratively poisonous.

This is the real, operative reason behind the obsessive, often self-contradicting, need for control of male space by the Feminine Imperative. Oversight and infiltration of male sub-tribes and instituting a culture of self-policing of the narrative within those sub-tribes maintains a feminine-primary social order.

Building Better Betas

Since the time in which western(izing) societies shifted to unfettering Hypergamy on a social scale there has been various efforts to demasculinize – if not outright feminize – the larger majority of men. Today we’re seeing the results of, and still persistent efforts of this in much starker contrast as transgenderism and the social embrace of foisting gender-loathing on boys becomes institutionalized. A deliberate promotion of a social constructivist narrative about gender identity and the very early age at which children can “choose” a gender for themselves is beginning to be more and more reinforced in our present feminine-primary social order.

As a result of this, and likely into our near future, today’s men are conditioned to feel uncomfortable being “men”. That discomfort is a direct result of the ambiguity and misguidance about conventional masculinity the imperative has fostered in men when they were boys. This feminization creates a gender loathing, but that loathing comes as the result of an internal conflict between the feminine-correct “non-toxic” understanding of what masculinity ought to be and the conventional aspects of masculinity that men need to express as a result of their biology and birthright.

Effectively, this confusion has the purpose of creating discomfort in men among all-male sub-tribes. These masculine-confused men have difficulty with intersocial communication within the sub-tribes they’re supposed to have some sort of kin or in-group affiliation with.  Even the concept of “male bonding” has become a point of ridicule (something typical of male buffoons) or suspiciously homosexual , so, combined with the feminine identification most of these men default to, today’s “mangina” typically has more female friends and feels more comfortable communicating as women communicate. These men have been effectively conditioned to believe or feel that male interaction or organization is inherently wrong, uncomfortable or contrived, possibly even threatening if the organizing requires physical effort. Consequently, interacting as a male becomes ridiculous or superficial.

Pushing Back

What then is to be done about this conditioning? For all the efforts to destroy or regulate male tribalism, the Feminine Imperative still runs up against men’s evolved predispositions to interact with the outside world instead of fixating on the inside world of women. Below I’ve pieced together some actionable ideas that might help men come to a better, unitary way of fostering the male tribalism the Feminine Imperative would see destroyed or used as a tool of soci0-sexual control:

  • While it is vitally important to maintain a male-specific mental point of origin, together men need a center point of action. Women talk, men do. Men need a common purpose in which the tribe can focus its efforts on. Men need to build, coordinate, win, compete and problem solve amongst themselves. The ‘purpose’ of a tribe can’t simply be one of getting together as like-minded men; in fact, groups with such a declared purpose are often designed to be the most conciliatory and accommodating of the Feminine Imperative. Men require a common, passionate purpose to unite for.

 

  • Understand and accept that men will naturally form male hierarchies in virtually every context if that tribe is truly male-exclusive. There will be a reflexive resistance to this, but understand that the discomfort in acknowledging male hierarchies stems from the Feminine Imperative’s want to make any male authority a toxic form of masculinity. Contrary to feminine conditioning male hierarchies are not necessarily based on Dark Triad manipulations. That is the ‘fem-think’ – any male created hierarchy of authority is by definition evil Patriarchy.

 

  • Recognize existing male sub-tribes for what they are, but do so without labeling them as such. Don’t talk about Fight Club, do Fight Club. As with most other aspects of Red Pill aware Game, it is always better to demonstrate rather than explicate. There will always be an observer effect in place when you call a male group a “male group”. That tribe must exist for a passionate reason other than the express idea that it exists to be about men meeting up. Every sub-tribe I belong to, every collective interest I share with other men, even the instantly forming ones that arise from an immediate common need or function, all exist apart from “being” about men coming together.Worldwide “tribe” day failed much for the same reasons an organization like the Good Men Project fails – they are publicized as a gathering of men just “being” men.

 

  • Push back on the invasion of male space by being uncompromising in what you do and organize with passion. Make no concessions for women in any all-male space you create or join. There will always be a want to accommodate women and/or the fears of not being accommodating of feminine-primary mindsets within that all-male purview. Often this will come in subtle forms of anonymous White Knighting or reservations about a particular passion due to other men’s Blue Pill conditioning to always consider the feminine before considerations of themselves or the tribe. It is vitally important to the tribe to quash those sympathies and compromising attitudes as these are exactly the designs of the Feminine Imperative to destroy a tribe from within.Make no concessions for competency of women within the tribe if you find yourself in a unisex tribal situation. Even the U.S. military is guilty of reducing combat service requirements for women as recently as this month. If you are a father or you find yourself in a role of mentoring boys or young men it is imperative that you instill this no-compromise attitude in them and the organizations that they create themselves.

 

  • The primary Red Pill / Game tenets that you’ve learned with respect to women are entirely applicable in a larger scope when it comes to resisting the influences of the Feminine Imperative. Frame and a return to a collectively male-exclusive Mental Point of Origin are two of the primary tenets to apply to non-intimate applications of resistance in terms of aspects of society. Observations and the Red Pill Lens should inform your interactions with women and men on a social scale.

 

Finally, I want to close by restating that my approach to resisting the influences of the Feminine Imperative on a meta-social scale is the same bottom-up approach I used with unplugging men from their Blue Pill doldrums. Once men have taken the first steps in Red Pill awareness this new perspective has a tendency to expound into greater social understandings and a want for applications beyond hooking up with desirable women. That Red Pill awareness becomes a way of life, but moreover, it should inform us as men, as tribes, about how best to maintain ourselves as masculine-primary individuals and organizations.

1,273 comments

  1. Nice post. Readers should note how both concerned and confused the Brit feministsas are with their PowerPoint pseudo-Venn diagram.

    This unitary, gender-primary tribalism has been (and is) the key to women’s unilateral social power – and even in social environments where women still suffer oppression, the Sisterhood will exercise this gender-tribalism.

    Men I know who have been in corners of the Moslem world such as various ‘Stans report that even though women may be confined within a family compound, they pretty much rule that compound. This is why. Even the lowest ranking new wife still has someone to “get her back”.

    These are the cultures where men resort to sex with barnyard animals, btw.

    They fear to lose the control that the ‘socially responsible’ ignorance of men provides them with.

    Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt are weapons that the FI uses freely, from the female collective right down to the individual girly who has locked some AFC beta down.

    The Red Pill points to Courage, Certainty and Sureness.

    Rollo: Typo, a paragraph in Building Better Betas subsection ends with:
    Even the concept of “male bonding” has become a point of ridicule (something typical of male buffoons) or suspiciously homosexual , so, combined with

    and the same sentence is repeated in the next para.

    Make no concessions for women in any all-male space you create or join. There will always be a want to accommodate women and/or the fears of not being accommodating of feminine-primary mindsets within that all-male purview.

    This is in my opinion easier to do with men under 35 than with men over 45. Boomers and older X’rs have a really strong tendency to White Knight. Millennials have been brainwashed in K-12 plus University however they can contrast the words with the actions better, because they don’t have 10, 20, 30, 40 more years of being ground down by the FI. They are teachable. This is not to say that some Boomers and X’rs can’t be taught – we all know men in their 50’s who are getting the Red Pill – they are just rarer.

    Better to cut a White Knight out of the group than let him bring a woman in.

    The primary Red Pill / Game tenets that you’ve learned with respect to women are entirely applicable in a larger scope when it comes to resisting the influences of the Feminine Imperative. Frame and a return to a collectively male-exclusive Mental Point of Origin are two of the primary tenets to apply to non-intimate applications of resistance in terms of aspects of society.

    And the more a man does this the easier it gets. The neural pathways involved in thinking clearly, in noticing the reality of men and women, only get faster and stronger from being used. It’s invigorating to stand up and speak the truth with a smirk in a mixed group, and see the surprised expressions – the men surprised and startled, the women surprised and often pleased – as a result.

  2. By the way, the pic reminds me of one of the recruiting campaigns for the US Army from a few years back, that whole “There’s strong – then there’s Army Strong” bit.

    The Red Pill says: “I get strong because I want / need to. There’s strong, and then there’s FU strong”.

  3. Wow… blows my mind that TRM and other RP sites would be the subject of a feminist class. As they are reading this site they can learn something about men’s concerns and feelings and move feminism towards real equality and not just a modernised form of trad. conservative seeking to subvert men to their purposes. If they are similar to the likes of IB, Karen, and Miss Emily, then manipulative female chauvinism (tribalism) and emotional manipulation will be the challenge for good women, who actually care about men and women equally, to overcome.

  4. Back in the late days of high school and for a few years after a group of us friends used to drive to a cabin on a local lake which was owned by one guy’s family. The purpose of the trip was to party as hard as we could for a couple days and then head home. Eventually, as is natural at that age, some of the guys paired up with serious girlfriends. As I’m sure you readers can guess, these guys were under pressure to bring their girlfriends with them, and so they did.
    The entire vibe of the trip changed. Everybody was more reserved. None of the truly crazy antics took place any longer. There was a sense in some of the guys not to try to offend, where as before, some truly debased (in a fun way) activity took place. That was the last year that I went up there and the traditional trip died a couple years later.
    I didn’t tell anyone at the time, but I believed that the inclusion of girls into our formerly all-guy “camping” trip ruined it. We went to other parties or activities with these same girls all other times but they couldn’t “allow” us even one all-guy trip without guilt tripping their boyfriends (who I suppose we would now call “betas”) into including them.
    Guys, cherish your men only camping/ hunting trips. They are legend!

  5. Great post.

    I think that the origins of this really were, to some degree, to enhance female “safety” in the context of early human tribal organization being based on kin-bonded males. That is, women who were not relatives were brought into tribes based on male kin-bonds, and had to find some way to establish some degree of solidarity with each other, despite not being kin, in order to have some counterweight to the strong bonds among the kin-bonded men. Conversely, men developed in this context a tendency to trust a very limited circle of men, because they were in competition with the men who were in other male-kin-bonded tribal groups. So when tens of thousands of years later, overprivileged princesses at Harvard are saying that any grouping together of females “makes them safe”, they are really echoing a very ancient pattern of female behavior which developed precisely to counteract male power — so it’s kind of the same base behavior, but obviously in a very different context.

    That context is key, because in today’s world, we aren’t organized around male kind bonds (and increasingly, nation-states, which are the 30k foot extension of these), but are rather atomized and living amongst strangers. That context ipso facto tilts power to women who evolved to collaborate well with female strangers, whereas men did not. Yet the behavior persists despite that power imbalance, socially, and despite that there isn’t any male-kin-bond to counterweight, because it is both deeply ingrained and ultimately self-serving (and, by means of using the apex fallacy, it can be claimed that there is still a male-bonded “cabal” — albeit not bound by kin ties — that women are trying to counter as a sex, regardless of the fact that most men are substantially disempowered in this culture in all ways other than the raw physical).

  6. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about this. A relative recently sent me a mini biography he’d written about one of our common forefathers back in Boston and it was amazing to see how connected men used to be able to be to other likeminded men. This ancestor was a member of the Boston Light Dragoons, the Oddfellows, the Freemasons, the Republican Party and in a very active evangelical Methodist church. All of these organizations were extremely active as well. Everything from charity, to training for war, to business ventures to worship.

    The Internet has been invaluable to me for getting access to excellent ideas, but I yearn for the possibility of real meatspace brotherhoods and connections that really engage in the world, not just LARP. I don’t really have a solution, but I’m looking for one.

  7. all Male Space is effectively required to be “unisex space” while all-female sub-tribes must remain exclusively female.

    A good example of this are the Scouts and Girl Guides organizations. Girl Guides is strictly female only while the Scouts has been completely co-opted to the extent that many Scouts groups have more girls than boys.

    I feel that your point of being ruthless with female intrusion into male spaces is extremely important but also difficult to achieve in practice, particularly if you yourself are new to the group. I think that they only way to reasonably achieve this is by forming new groups with this caveat clear from the outset.

  8. The Patriarchy (the cabal) is more a projection of The Sisterhood onto men than anything else. Women simply assume, since it is innate to themselves, that there is some sort of Universal Brotherhood that men invoke to have each other’s backs.

    They simply do not understand male social interaction, at all.

  9. Yes, kfg, it’s a projection — they assume that we are like them because that is how *they* are, and if they were big and strong like us, that is how *they* would be. That is why women in political power are such a problem — they act in an inherently sex-biased way, and this is deeply wired in.

    I’d say that the most startling example I’ve seen of women vastly favoring the members of their sex, strangers or no, is seeing it applied to females of other species. I remember when a filly won some major horse race a few years ago (I can’t remember whether it was one of the triple crown or not, but probably not), and some women were saying that they had been pulling for the filly “because she’s a girl, you know! — It’s good to see the girls winning”.

    Needless to say, this is very strong and deep wiring in human females (I doubt it is reciprocated among equine females, of course).

  10. Blake’s funeral is in two days
    ‘interchange of information and ideas.’ mookmode + learning
    just did a 103 mile run but was a pacer for 50 miles.
    I bonded with my buddy M
    being miserable rips away complaints and condemnation or critizing.

  11. “I remember when a filly won some major horse race a few years ago . . .”

    Rachel Alexandra won the Preakness in 2009. I didn’t notice it myself, but that’s the most recent.

    I remember when Genuine Risk won the Derby in 1980. Only the second filly to do so and the first was back in 1915. She also came second in the Belmont and Preakness, the best any filly has ever done in the triple crown. Women went horse crazy. I note that she was a failure as a breeder.

    And there there’s the sad case of Ruffian:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruffian_%28horse%29

  12. Novaseeker
    Yes, kfg, it’s a projection — they assume that we are like them because that is how *they* are, and if they were big and strong like us, that is how *they* would be. That is why women in political power are such a problem — they act in an inherently sex-biased way, and this is deeply wired in.

    Not just politics. Women in top management tend to act in the manner they think men act – autocratic, impatient, demanding – but often coupled with normal female risk aversion. The results at such companies as Yahoo, HP, etc. are not surprising to anyone who looks at women honestly.

    Oh, and women executives are often absolute horrors to live with because they don’t / can’t / won’t disassociate their personal from their office personas. Margaret Thatcher once admtted in an interview that she made her husband utterly miserable the whole time she was Prime Minister, for example.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that women always project…

  13. Wow. Great post.
    Feminists are shooting themselves in the pussy, not in the foot. I’m glad I wouldn’t be around when future men wear yoga pants.
    Look at this quote :
    “”If I want my son to love and respect women, I am going to have to teach him to embrace – and ideally appreciate – “girlish” things. That’s why I’m weaving him a dandelion crown and signing him up for ballet.
    I’m going to turn the little alphabet belcher into a proud princess whether he likes it or not.””
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/why-im-teaching-my-son-to-embrace-girly-things/article29629855/?service=mobile

    Warning!
    Do not read this article before you go to bed, it may cause men to have ” hot flashes “.
    Ps,
    That feminist writer , married a first class league pussy / mangina and then divorced him! , and still haven’t learnt, and she’s going to raise / clone her kid to fall in his father’s foot step.

  14. I think men have a natural distrust for out of group males is because, I don’t know if it’s a survival thing, but since men are doers, that means they need to compete or at least be good at something. So men need more than a shared experience or common interest to let somebody in the group. When men compete, they compete with everybody. Using athletic or physical examples, you don’t have separate standards for men to meet. You’re either good enough or not. Women only compete with other women. Or the standards get changed for them, and then you get things like celebrating the first woman to do whatever. So it makes sense that women lean towards redistribution of wealth. It’s another way of changing the basic test for joining the military or fire department.
    Men need to know can you at least keep up in some way. Or need to make sure you’re not a dumb guy who just happens to like the same thing. And there’s also the side that the ones you let into the group don’t in some way destroy the group. How many stories or movies use the scenario of the low level character due to rank or ability as the in for the female seducer? Either thru naivete, jealousy, or greed, the weak link of the group has potential to bring down the group.

  15. Water Cannon Boy, if I am going out with my dogs and my spear to kill something big like a buffalo I want the men with me to be trustworthy, because my life depends on them and vice versa. If some big piece of meat turns and charges…we all know what to do.

    Or if I have to stand outside my village with a spear because the bad guys from over the hill are coming a-raiding, I want the man on my right and the man on my left to be men that won’t cut and run.

    These are the basics of “men” for millennia. At the basic level that means in-group, with something to lose, not out-group with nothing to lose. It’s deep in the genes. To form a clan, or gang, requires some bonding that enables men to trust each other deeper than just casually.

    Women’s ingroup preference is a logical result of tribes trading women, raiding for women, tribes losing men on the hunt, losing men in fights, etc.
    It’s deep in the genes.

  16. I get what you mean. I was thinking more in the context of goal oriented. Which survival back in the days of actual threat to life was a goal. But in modern time, you form a group around a common interest, like a motorcycle club, it’s because of more than a common interest. Each man in the group is going to want to be a good rider.
    By the way, my first post looks redundant now because I made it half way thru reading the article.

  17. It’s okay to have women’s book club but man’s book clubs ? Oh no, that is sexism.
    Or,
    Just watch when you see a lesbian couple, pay attention to the reincarnated masculine women and how wonderful and masculine Jenny is (!).
    And wait till you start seeing Dykes meetings to discuss masculinity “challenges”.

  18. But in modern time, you form a group around a common interest, like a motorcycle club, it’s because of more than a common interest. Each man in the group is going to want to be a good rider.

    And there’s ways each man can help other men to be better riders.
    We need more stuff like that.

  19. “Women’s ingroup preference is a logical result of tribes trading women, raiding for women, tribes losing men on the hunt, losing men in fights, etc.
    It’s deep in the genes.”

    They didn’t have to be traded. I think it’s more a result of getting down to the very basics of women’s lack of being able to physically defend themselves against men.
    Why does the heavyweight champ, especially while he’s on top at least, get so much admiration across economic, status, and social scales?
    Because you can think and feel any way you want about him. But say the wrong thing to him face to face, you risk getting stomped on.

  20. @Water cannon boy
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae
    One foot took out the spartan army…
    Shame
    Honor
    And love.
    Values and culture also play a part. By farther’s older brothers by mentors elders…

    Posturing is masculine to the core. You used to have to be able to take a lethal hit while being in a possession to deliver one.Tribes fight for home soil. “culture” can change that.

    Guilt based and shamed based society also play a part.

  21. Men seem to be better at assessing and agreeing on value. When you get a set of musicians together, they know who’s good and who isn’t and they quickly working out who is above who in competition. As part of our experience, we may not like not winning but we, along with others, hone a sense of value and we know how to fall in line together. There are evolutionary reasons behind this.

    Women on the other hand often focus on their feelings and esteem and what they end up doing is clouding the assessment and agreement of value in whatever the focus of an effort is. I don’t mind women’s company, I enjoy it. But the cloudiness around value that they introduce in hobby and work situations is a problem.

  22. The funny thing is for all intents and purposes women can’t bond like men, they stand in opposition to men not in solidarity with one another. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    I work in a predominately male job (90% male out of 400 workers) and yet for lunch women will for the most part sit alone and apart from one another.

    They’ll literally try and sneak into a male group but we push them away with vulgar jokes. Nothing beats male comradery and I’ll be damned if I’ll listen to miserable chick prattle on my down time.

    They want inclusion because by themselves they’re boring as fuck. In social settings when the men seperate themselves to shoot the shit and leave them to their own devices they’ll complain that we have to join their clucking. They literally have no existence outside of men excepting children.

    In the past motherhood was a strong bond between women but social atomization and staving off child birth has robbed them of this avenue.

    The law of unintended consequences means the more they seek inclusion the more men will seek exclusion.

    The web is the greatest liberator of men in modern history, there’s literally millions of male spaces now in obscure topics that women will never wade into.

  23. At my age, I find it hard to find real men to hang with. The guys I know are all sheep. They supplicate women. One guy who recently married let his wife go on a long girls holiday but was afraid of hanging out for drinks with me because she might not approve.

    I find it hard to find guys who just want to hang out with, have drinks and talk Red Pill….it doesn’t exist in my world.

    My plates meantime…seem to get it and get me. Increasingly they’re buying gifts, dressing up hot for me, cooking or trying to get me to show them stuff…in other words—to lead them.

    There is a self-loathing among betas that they are ashamed of their own sexual desires. They’re afraid to make their intentions clear and some are dumbstruck when I tell them about the hot girls I’ve banged one the first or second dates.

    Krauser I believe was the one who referred to this as the “secret society”…

    Another thing…guys my age tend to be really judgmental about the fact I’m banging younger hotter girls….it’s projection of their own frustrations. So I’ve stopped telling them about my plates or situation all together.

    So these forums seem to a great opportunity to bond, share stories and seek advice. Ideally it would be best done in person. Not really possible for me unfortunately.

  24. “It’s actually a law of power to despise what you can’t have, and deductively it makes sense” read this. Read it again. And again. And again. Because this is your brain on red pill.

    That was written by Rollo in a former post and it makes sense why a bunch of whiners and losers would despise women so much. You can’t get “the one” or any woman above a 6. So instead of dropping the “I need a 6 or hotter chick” mentality to feel good about your fat, average, boring existence, you “unplug”=hate women and blame them for your short comings and failures. Stop blaming women. Stop blaming other people period. I think it’s very interesting that Rollo, a many years married old guy sells this “hate female power”mantra and gives all these directives these how to not get into a meaningful relationship with a woman, when clearly his life story is deeply entrenched in a LTR. Rollo- why not teach men what you’ve done since you clearly do value a woman and clearly love, honor and respect Mrs. Rollo. Because why else would you tie yourself to someone if you don’t? And you’ve admitted on this site that your relationship/she are amazing. But red losers seems to think women are so terrible but your leader doesn’t. He’s married as fuck! Your leader is a lot like Donald trump. He loves the under-educated. He’s selling you a belief or life style that he doesn’t even agree with. He’s always saying on one hand how men are the conqueres, builders etc then how and when did women coopt the world? Why are men the leaders of most companies, religious groups and countries? Somehow women are running all this shit, but won’t even pay themselves the same or better than men? It’s a bunch of Bologna and you undereducated red losers gobble it up. Rollo -Not mad at you, clearly these guys need to attach to something to feel better about their lack and you just provide the service for them.

    Whatever this is futile because the kool aid runs thick, but again, as Rollo says what they do is more important than what they say. Rollo a multi year married man who loves a (gasp) woman and has tied himself to her. Gasp. Is not red pill. He’s just a guy who can spout off some pseudo scientific theory, package it and sell it to you red losers who are butt hurt that you got left, cheated on, or can’t pull grade A ass and he gets to enjoy the worship of you sad “men.”

  25. @Rollo, Adam: Another good example are gyms. There are women-only rooms or whole gyms as “safe spaces”. I guess whole chains like Planet Fitness also count, I read that if you can’t deadlift heavy in some of them, nor grunt too loudly. Because it would make the women there uncomfortable, perhaps?

  26. Is the fact that female style communication is normative correlated with (and / or part of the cause) of the general trend for the withering of clubs (be they sport or whatever) and community organisations?
    In my neck of the planet even the bikie gangs are ‘aging out’ and disappearing due to lack of recruitment.
    I see the same thing with the ski club (predominantly male due to the demanding terrain of the area we operate) I’m with.
    Any recruitment of young blokes is generally due to their dads joining and dragooning the son(s).
    Rugby clubs struggle for numbers and have to amalgamate, volunteer fire brigades (rural areas and small towns) are in a similar boat, to name but a few examples.

  27. You’ve knocked this one out of the park mate.
    I wasn’t a fan of Roosh in his pua days and I understand his current business model is outrage=clicks = $$$. But at least he puts himself out there… where is ruthlessly torn apart by the femedia.
    Any variation from FI approved speech is hate speech by definition. I spoke to women about him and they 100% believe he is pro rape. It doesn’t matter that it’s utter nonsense and he denies it, if the herd says it it must be true.
    Any meeting of men is distrusted by the Fi, any red pill meet up (openly rp or subtly rp) would get 1000s of people protesting it and calling for it to be banned under the guise of protecting women. All the while the protesters would be unironically complaining about living in a ‘patriarchal’ society.

  28. @Wolfsheep you sound vaguely familiar. Sure its easy enough to get around bans with alt emails, proxy, vpn, etc, but have you heard of taking the hint?

    “He’s always saying on one hand how men are the conqueres, builders etc then how and when did women coopt the world?”

    LOL, men _are_ in charge. A very tiny minority of men. A great way to maintain this increasingly inequitable system is to turn people against each other through social engineering. Pit race against race, class against class, and now even men vs women to break up the family. I have a hard time imagining that social engineers from 60 years ago understood hypergamy, SMV, etc. upfront when they started down this road, but the point was always to infantilize society to more effectively control it. What better way to do this than to play to the vanity of fools and put them over those who might effectively sound the alarm, or resist when the time came?

  29. Allow me to reiterate the praise for this article.

    If I may speak of myself: I may be a boomer but I attended an all-male boarding school with a number of ethnic students including a small cohort of Chinese and thus my recollections of male bonding mirror exactly the line of the article; I was not subjected to female-centric ideology.

    When, recently, my new buy-to-let neighbour arrived, we – otherwise strangers – instantly (he being male) fell into coherent discussion as to how to improve and protect the structure of the building. We get on well by reason of our common interest but that is the extent of our interaction nor need it be more. This would not have been the case had he been other than male.

    I know little of gaming but – I do not think this is particulariy an American thing? – I enjoy watching Youtube videos of model-railways. The .little automotons are really the device that justifies the creating of a nostalgic back-drop. It’s not really about the trains. This hobby with its small objects of desire seems to me to be and entirely male endeavour. If ever (and it surely won’t) it gained popular traction you can be sure some women would be alleging that women were being excluded and that it was sexist.

  30. @wolfie. LOL! Your attempts at framing TRM readers is feeble, but very revealing of your own fears and insecurities. Mmmm…. who gets upset over guys wanting genetically ideal and fertile females (i.e young & >HB6), which is the male biological imperative?

  31. I have no doubt that a woman centric imperative runs through society. I question how long it has existed. It seems a lot of writers treat it as if it arose about the time feminism started becoming dominant in society. I’m having a hard time buying this. Feminists tell us that their origins were in fighting the oppression of women by western society up until the 20th century. Most writers, even manosphere writers, pay a nod to this version of history. However, was it actually true that women were oppressed in our society simply because they were women? I ask the question because the affirmative answer is the narrative of feminists, and I don’t trust them.

    Feminism to me has always been a reactionary movement. It tends to create nothing new. It is said feminists got women the vote, the pill, equal wages, access to education and careers, and a legal right to abortion. But they did not, as far as I can see. I look back at who implemented those innovations, and it was not feminists. I would argue women got these things due to a change in societal attitudes caused by a humanistic approach – western societies started to treat all people with at least some basic equality and dignity, and with a respect for individual autonomy. Women rode along on the wave of human rights that followed.

    I suspect societies have always been woman-centric, back to when societies first formed. What we are seeing in society now, with women’s reproductive needs elevated to god-like status, all while expecting the best living standards humanity has ever known, for no cost to women, is not something new, it’s just the same old system, now way too far out of balance. Feminism didn’t cause it; it’s just riding the coattails, and claiming all the credit. There was no patriarchy, it’s always been a matriarchy.

  32. Several years ago, a stay-at-home mommy in my neighborhood was telling me about her husband going on a long weekend “hunting” trip, using fingers to illustrate quotation marks when she said hunting.

    I asked what she meant by “hunting.” She said it’s not really a hunting trip, it’s just a bunch of guys renting a cabin and getting drunk around the campfire all weekend. But some of the guys have to tell their wives it’s a hunting trip, because if they tell what they’re really going to do all weekend, the little wifeys won’t let them go.

    Then, I no longer make any effort to see my best friend from high school outside of class reunions. He was pretty va-jay-jay whipped back in the day and it’s only gotten worse. Tried to schedule a get-together with him once, it was clearly going to take an act of Congress for his wife to give her blessing (or not) to this outing, so I finally just said I’ll just catch up with you another time. Oh, and he has to work himself to the bone at two jobs so the wife can home-school the kid, lest the kiddo have to rub shoulders with the huddled masses at a public school. The kid clearly sounds like she is lonely but he doesn’t have the stones to do anything about the kid’s situation.

  33. ” . . . was it actually true that women were oppressed in our society simply because they were women? ”

    No. They had some of their behaviour restricted and were assigned certain responsibilities, but so it was for men as well.

    The foundation of society, as it is in virtually all sexually reproducing species, is gynocentric, and thus men have always been to some degree disposable and women privileged. Eggs are expensive while sperm is cheap and shit.

    When men hold power they use it, in the main, for the support and protection of women, at the expense of their own lives, asking for little, but at least something, in return.

    When women hold power they use it, in the main, to suck the life out of men for their own benefit, offering nothing in return.

    And thus women being expected to return anything, no matter how minor, is interpreted by them as “mah oppression.”

    And that’s just the way it is.

  34. “At my age, I find it hard to find real men to hang with. The guys I know are all sheep. They supplicate women. One guy who recently married let his wife go on a long girls holiday but was afraid of hanging out for drinks with me because she might not approve.”

    @Walawala

    Same here. It’s frustrating.

  35. some very male spaces that by their nature resist FI push:

    real weight rooms, all undeveloped National Forest and BLM land (our birthright), workshops where real things get manufactured/maintained, bbq pits/smokehouses, cigar clubs

    if there is metal, machine noise, weather, smoke/exhaust and or no bathroom, the space is ours. sounds pretty good to me.

  36. Great essay Rollo!

    It’s nice to see the actionable advice in the bullet points similar to the post on Red Pill parenting.

    @Walawala and Andy

    Keep in mind what Rollo pointed out twice in the OP.

    Because men have such varied interests, passions and endeavors based on them it’s easy to see how men compartmentalize themselves into various sub-tribes. Whether it’s team sports (almost always a male-oriented endeavor), cooperative enterprises, cooperative forms of art (rock bands have almost always been male space) or just hobbies men share, it is a natural progression for men to form sub-tribes within the larger whole of conventional masculinity……

    Men need a common purpose in which the tribe can focus its efforts on. Men need to build, coordinate, win, compete and problem solve amongst themselves. The ‘purpose’ of a tribe can’t simply be one of getting together as like-minded men; in fact, groups with such a declared purpose are often designed to be the most conciliatory and accommodating of the Feminine Imperative. Men require a common, passionate purpose to unite for.

    When finding men to hang out with in an exclusive space, go with your hobbies, pursuits and passions. Where like-minded men are with the same pursuits and passions. You still have to vet the guys after becoming acquainted with them though.

    When I look back at where the opportunities were for me to meet and keep guy friends, they were in hobbies. Looking back this was a by-product of going out and doing something I really was interested in.

    Back 15 years ago I would join a pistol shooting league at a gun range and take a brother-in-law along and mentor him in firearms marksmanship. After shooting competetively (similar to a bowling league), we would go have beers at a bar and smoke cigars (back when this was allowed in regular bars. The time spent was a great experience.

    And I’ve mentioned picking up a great core group of guys only in deer hunting habitat (guys that were very passionate about shaping wildlife habitat for deer, planting food plots, chainsaw work to destroy canopy in overgrown woods with a barren understory. It was much more specific than just deer hunting and all of us had burning passion for the same thing.) The enthusiasm was inescapable at these get togethers. And it was 100% exclusive to guys. Except for one get together when a girlfriend of a blue pill guy came along. Hahah, that singular time provided some of the best belly laughs ever between one of my red pill buddies and I precisely because she tried to dominate the conversations with a FI bent. And conversely, we have some great get-togethers wherein a women served in a feminine and submissive supportive role as servers or event organizers. (heheh, see what I did there in that last sentence?)

    Lately also, in the last three years, I found a guys with a similar passion for Red Pill Awareness and Game. And that bond has been fantastic, as each of us share the same enthusiasm. So that is perhaps a suggestion, latch on to someone you see as really good at Game and vet them for being red pill aware. I’m sure YaReally has the best time ever hanging out with his sarging buddies.

    Even if you don’t smoke cigars, it won’t kill you to try going with a guy that has that enthusiasm. Cigar lounges are a fantastic male space. Women do frequent them, but they generally don’t act like a cow in a china shop.

    So start with a male pursuit and vet the guys you meet for potential to resonate with you. Hunting, fishing, trap and skeet shooting, golf, mountain biking, kayaking,–you know the list…. If you can’t find something on your own list, go out and try some new pursuits. You’d be surprised how that just works.

  37. “At my age, I find it hard to find real men to hang with. The guys I know are all sheep. They supplicate women. One guy who recently married let his wife go on a long girls holiday but was afraid of hanging out for drinks with me because she might not approve.”

    @Walawala

    Same here. It’s frustrating.

    I have the same experience, although I can’t honestly say it’s frustrating. I’m surely better off doing various things on my own if the alternative is to hang with betas who just cede control over their own free time to their girlfriends or wives. It’s obvious to anyone that there’s no reciprocity at all in these relationships, just as you mentioned. If the woman decides to go on a girls’ night out, to hang out with her friends, or to go on some short vacation, she certainly won’t ask for the approval of her bitchboy. Either he puts up with it without a word, or she starts an argument and he gets kicked to the curb. He, however, can only do similar things if the woman approves, which she either refuses to do, or only does rarely and grudgingly. This is considered normal in most relationships today. I had loser “friends” call me and invite me to some local bar, because their wives finally permitted them to go out and have 2-3 beers.

    I suppose it used to be different in the old days, when single men were expected to envy married men, and actually had some reason to do so. Relationships were more reciprocal, assortative mating was still the norm i.e. you didn’t normally see male 7s pair up with female 4s or 5s, average female quality was higher and betas had more access to quality sex, and the cultural-social environment generally favored betas more than it does today. Who can honestly say today that married betas are envied?

  38. @Montuehappydays

    I spoke to women about him

    knock this off you stupid cunt

    Don’t talk about Roosh with women. Don’t talk about Rollo with women. Don’t discuss TRP with women.

  39. The purpose of the trip was to party as hard as we could for a couple days and then head home. Eventually, as is natural at that age, some of the guys paired up with serious girlfriends. As I’m sure you readers can guess, these guys were under pressure to bring their girlfriends with them, and so they did.

    My experience is generally the opposite: girlfriends show no desire to go along to such events, and in fact they seek to isolate their new-found partners from their male friends, to assume more and more control over his social life. On a different note, what’s the point in bringing your girlfriend along to such a trip? Realistically speaking, what good can come out of it?

  40. “When I look back at where the opportunities were for me to meet and keep guy friends, they were in hobbies. Looking back this was a by-product of going out and doing something I really was interested in.”

    @SJF

    Curious. Are there any younger guys you’ve found open to red pill stuff, or mostly your age? I know some older guys, but I just don’t have much in common outside of the one reason I know them.

  41. >>>it makes sense why a bunch of whiners and losers would despise women so much.

    It makes sense why a woman would whine about men being a bunch of whiners and losers because you have no good arguments, only shaming language. Sorry cup cake. We are not going to be forced back into our little stalls and we are not going to shut up. This is going mainstream and every one of those little boys you have conspired to destroy is going to learn the truth about their oppression. I am sure that is terrifying to you.

    Rollo has his mission to identify the cases of female empowerment and misandry and to articulate the theory and underlying reality of the Red Pill. If you want a more pro-staying married perspective try:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill

  42. Yes a few years ago I organized a rebuilding of a major structure at our club to circumvent the normal board or directors, for it was populated by FI types who really hate this particular structure due to it’s 100 year history of explicit and proud identity as a beacon of masculinity and good natured debauchery. (Don’t let your daughter party there).
    It was a volunteer effort and we managed to do a shit load of work in three days with a rotating group of 45 people or so. It was very explicitly sexist in how I organized it. “Yes dear, you can serve beers after 1:00 pm and keep the site clean while those men over there do the heavy lifting”. Thankfully we only had about 5 ladies show an interest in participating and they gladly accepted my overtly sexist direction. For the men who participated it was another great bonding exercise doing heavy lifting, cutting, hammering and so on. It naturally settled into a hierarchy almost immediately for it had to, you cannot just start knocking shit down randomly. So things got set up into squads very quickly and just as fast the competition started to see who could be most productive. Not one argument in three 16 hour days and only an hour of down time per day for an enforced lunch.
    Social cohesion following the exercise was at an all time high. While the busy bodies debated defunding our project and how to get more women into the men’s enclave, we finished the work that would keep the building from collapsing (Which was the busy bodies true aim, demolition by neglect).
    Men did, women talked about doing or poured beers for us while we did it.

    There was one go-gurl who tried to make her mark by attempting to rearrange how things were done, e.g. who was in what group and so on. She of course got herself into a scenario where she was beyond her capabilities and she had to be “rescued”. She then attempted to use that as a point of leverage to say that the whole thing needed to be done differently. I agreed and said she needed to stop participating so it could be done “properly” like it already was before she fucked it up with her unsolicited “direction”. She backed out and we got back to actually producing the work in a timely manner. Sadly she is an obese bossy chick who managed to get on the board and her husband is an AFC of epic blue pill dimensions.

  43. @Andy

    I actually think that one of these days in the not so distant future, that there will be a simpler way to meet red pill guys in a fight club kind of way.

    I hooked up with deer habitat enthusiasts through a sportman’s forum by actively and vigorously pursuing them offline to do things in real life. Once again it was the passion for the hobby that drove that. And for some of us red pill awareness and game is a passion and a pursuit. So there is that.

    Red pill blogs are kind of pushed underground by the mainstream hate, but if red pill aware numbers grow, I think guys will take it offline and meetup in real life and not talk about it with their girlfriends and wives. I made this suggestion here a year ago, but it went over like a lead balloon. (And maybe Roosh’s meetup really was about a singular passion for being-in-the Manosphere which is something that Rollo dismisses as just guys meeting up in the OP.)

    And there is a real life example of me meeting up with Forge the Sky in real life. (although he ghosted me after a year–and rightly so to pursue his profession–busy with work–and to chase pussy down, Lol). And that was a great experience for both of us.

    Some of the guys I met in the deer habitat community were young too ~30 y.o. because they had a real passion.

    I would say it is not going to be married buddies that have red pill awareness enthusiasm. So look for naturals that are committed to non-commitment, divorced guys who don’t want commitment or like I said, one of these days hook up with guys via forums where you can send private messages and know the guy is in your city. Like to still in development TRP.RED forum.

    So besides what I just said, meeting guys takes going out and trying to meet them (just like guys wanting to meet women actually have to get out in the field) and then it does take actually vetting and nexting/ghosting them if they don’t resonate with you. I got out a lot into the field (actual fields) a lot and I vetted a lot when I met my deer habitat buddies. And ghosting will happen, it did happen, and I just accepted that as part of doing interpersonal business.

    LOL, how hard are you trying?

  44. @SJF I didn’t dismiss RoK’s meet up because it didn’t have merit, in fact I thought it was a good idea. It’s just that Roosh preplanned it to be a publicity generating clusterfuck.

    What inspired this post was coming to understand the many sub-tribes I participate in without really calling them “tribes”. I go from the gym in the morning, to working with my design team, to working with my promo teams, to hanging with the guys I fence with, to the group of guys I sled with, to the guys I share a nerdy hobby with, to the men I fish with, and the list goes on and on.

    All of these groups are for the most part compartmentalized sub-tribes of men I interact with daily or weekly. However, in none of these tribes do we call each other and say “hey lets just hang out, drink beer and talk, maybe ya know ‘male bond’ a little bit, waddaya say?”

    Women talk, men do.

    This is actually one of the reasons so many guys who believe in intersex friendships get mired in the “friendzone” with women. They communicate exactly like women’s girlfriends communicate so they fall into the trap of talking and not doing. When they finally decide to take it to the next level they do so like a woman, not as a man would and if they ‘man up’ in their communication it comes off as uncharacteristic and incongruent.

    This is a real problem for the vast majority of Blue Pill Beta men. They’re conditioned to feel uncomfortable ‘being’ men, socializing with men and communicating as men. The risk of being perceived as ‘toxic’ for behaving and thinking like a ‘typical’ man is a real fear for them.

  45. It’s funny that both of my best friends characterize our relationships as being about almost everything but speaking. We build, maintain, drink etc but we are all economical with our words when together and quite happy for it.

  46. @rollo

    “When I wrote this essay I did so from the perspective of women feeling vulnerable about interacting intimately with men who understood their own value to women and also understood how to leverage it. One of the reasons Game is so vilified, ridiculed and disqualified by the Sisterhood is because it puts this understanding into practice with women and, in theory, removes women from the optimization of Hypergamy.”

    um, I’d submit that it’s more about control over the direction of hypergamy.

    game + circumstance (those two together = your current social status) allows any man to sleep with pretty much any woman.

    this means that, esp in modern society, every man can become a leader of his own personal tribe. he does not need to take society’s blueprint for his life.

    and if this is true, then guess what? no need for the 9-5 grind, no need to get caught up in society’s rat race, no need to be a good little consumer, etc. etc.

    that’s the kind of thought that most people can’t accept.

    even a lot of people in the manosphere (PUAs accepted it long ago — that’s why Tyler and Julien are out there tearing it up and doing whatever they want) can’t accept it.

    there are no rules. you make the rules.

  47. Great post Rollo. I know you try to stay away from being too prescriptive but I like some mention of action – it serves to add some focus and a sense of conclusion to the post (even if it is stuff that could be inferred by reading the rest of the post).

    I do have a few male friends who I *do* catch up with just for a beer or dinner etc but that’s more a question of maintaining friendships that have already existed for years. In each case the friendships were *formed* through a common activity – work and college most often but a surprisingly large proportion of old sarging buddies (from my first time doing pickup over a decade ago before I settled in a long LTR etc) who became very close friends and I stayed in touch with..

  48. “The Patriarchy (the cabal) is more a projection of The Sisterhood onto men than anything else. Women simply assume, since it is innate to themselves, that there is some sort of Universal Brotherhood that men invoke to have each other’s backs.”

    This is an excellent point. And this projection applies to many other aspects of female behavior as well.

  49. “hey lets just hang out, drink beer and talk, maybe ya know ‘male bond’ a little bit, waddaya say?”

    Protip: Don’t let a feminized poet take you out into the woods.

  50. ““The Patriarchy (the cabal) is more a projection of The Sisterhood onto men than anything else. Women simply assume, since it is innate to themselves, that there is some sort of Universal Brotherhood that men invoke to have each other’s backs.””

    this is one of those overcorrection things.

    it’s like how dudes in the manosphere assert that racism isn’t a thing any more or various other -isms don’t exist.

    Patriarchy -is- a thing. The primary moral, social, and economic authorities are men. Look at SCOTUS, look at congressional leadership, look at CEOs of fortune 500 companies, look at Church leadership. wrt to wealth women seem to be doing better than the aforementioned categories — but not that much, it’s still disparate.

    However, patriarchy is a lot like white supremacy in the old South; while the benefits trickle down, the bulk of the benefits are reserved for those at the top. so wrt patriarchy — ‘alpha’ males.

    the brute fact is that betas don’t benefit much from patriarchy, which is why many of them led the charge for feminism and follow feminism.

    now you say that alpha is a combination of persona — game — and some sort of genetic thing. i say alpha is mostly if not all persona, and specifically, a persona that sets one’s self as the main authority figure. and beta is just about deferring to other authorities to whatever varying degree.

    alphas at the top lie to betas. they say ‘work hard, do this, do that, do this, do that, LISTEN TO ME, and you will be like me.’ it’s never true and the alphas did not behave that way to get where they are.

  51. In that exhibit the term “mangina” is lacking. That’s where sites like the Good Man Project belongs. Their writing is so damn lame and blue pilled hilarious to say the least. They claim they eat stereotypes for lunch around there… guess they are practicing cannibalism.

  52. SJF,
    “When I look back at where the opportunities were for me to meet and keep guy friends, they were in hobbies. Looking back this was a by-product of going out and doing something I really was interested in.”

    Yes, but for me this approach is burning off with age. As a younger man this was more fruitful. The relationships I forged under the shared pain and commitment of competitive sports and other unique pursuits in college and beyond birthed friendships that remain to this day – some 20 years later.

    But in the sloppy years running up to middle-age, this approach has had steeply diminishing returns. Some acquaintances, sure, but converting these into actual friendships has been very tough. Perhaps the pulls of mid-life create a lot of headwind and things will pick up again as I get older.

    Being single and without children certainly influences my desire to build these male bonds. An incentive that is most certainly not shared (at least openly) by most men my age. I meet many men who are married and with kids and a career that is still on an upward trajectory, but there is an air of loneliness or nostalgia or some other longing. Yet they are just not inclined to take the steps to remedy that.

    I think they see it as selfish or rocking the boat. Even though their careers are providing for the family, I think they still see their jobs as being something that is taking away from the family – especially those who actually enjoy their work. So the idea of (new) male friendship is unfortunately tied into this notion of being selfish or somehow taking time/investment away from their family.

    I also see those same men more willing to engage if they think there is the female sidecar that they can offer up as negotiating chit to their wives/GF’s – to remain within the safer confines of the coupled. Perhaps I should be more willing to go this route but it seems a bit counterproductive if the idea is to build a male friendship.

    The coupling aspect is an issue. I’ve had a few formerly close friendships degrade or even die due to the man handing over the reigns of his social calendar to his wife. It really did become a keeper of the calendar issue. And its not just the permission aspect that inevitably takes over, but it is the signaling that comes with having a relationship subject to the outsourcing to a wife who will in no way value it in the same manner he would.

    So the burden becomes mine to chase the friendship, to invest, make time, and fit (conform and qualify to her ideas of what friends he should have) in order to maintain it. As a single guy I didn’t make the cut for the carefully curated couples dinner parties, and so I become like some kind of male orbiter in the friendship; the compartmentalized buddy who was always there for the 3pm beer while his wife thought he was still at work or to go deep into some intellectual or professional rabbit hole to satisfy some need his wife couldn’t meet. When I stopped chasing, the communication simply died off, and so went the friendship.

    The other issue is that of building an acquaintance into something greater. I have a lot of acquaintances from my activities, but these rarely migrate beyond that specific activity, e.g. the 6AM bike ride on Thursdays, or evolve beyond the pleasantries into anything with depth. The relationship exists almost entirely within that compartment – unless there is some business overlap- which is “ok” because it falls within pre-approved business compartments, but expanding into other social spheres is rare.

    I try to push the boundaries – and there is interest, but everyone is so busy that the execution falls apart. I’ve gone through several exercises in which the attrition wins out. I lose the single guys because there is no direct play for poosy and I lose the married guys because there is no room in their lives for more time away from their wives/GF’s.

    I get that this attrition is part of the process (and that my personality plays a role as I tend to favor depth over quantity), but I’ve run out of energy as the one who takes the lead in the execution and I rarely meet a man who desires to actually create these opportunities.

    Seems to me there is a challenge with the last mile. I know plenty of men who engage in these masculine pursuits, who protect their ability to engage, but stop short of allowing this compartmentalized part of their life to organically grow into something bigger – including male friendships.

    They seem to have a self-imposed governor – as if they know that they are operating within the pre-approved confines and if they were to expend this into other areas of male-centric activities or consorting, they would have to go before the magistrate to negotiate the merits and likely offer up some other sacrifice. There are only so many bites at the apple, you have to pick your battles kind of thing. And if that friendship can’t double as a boon to their business, it is far less likely to make the leap.

    I just read a snippet in some rag about apps that are like Tinder for friendship. Men swiping left (or is it right?) hoping to make buddies. I don’t see this catching on. Not because of the obvious awkwardness and limitations of the interface, but because I don’t see the problem being men meeting other men of similar interests, but rather the structural impediments that prevent cultivating those encounters into meaningful relationships. An app can’t circumvent the FI and the virtual can’t replace the real.

  53. “Patriarchy -is- a thing.”

    @scray

    It “appears” to be a thing. It’s just the last remnants of the way things used to be IMO. “the patriarchy” implies that women are striving to be at the top at the same rate as men. That just isn’t true.

  54. @andy

    I just go by the definition of patriarchy: “Patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power, predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property.”

    by that definition, ya, it’s here and it’s real.

    it doesn’t imply women are doing anything. i’m sure a feminist would say women are discouraged blah blah blah. idk and idc.

    i don’t get the manosphere rush to just deny the world’s injustices (if you think patriarchy is an injustice).

    like just because patriarchy exists doesn’t mean that modern feminism is infallible or actually even that it works to undermine patriarchy. modern feminism just seems to be a way to elevate women over and above so-called “beta” men.

    just because racism exists doesn’t mean that modern efforts to combat it are infallible, etc. either.

  55. “i don’t get the manosphere rush to just deny the world’s injustices (if you think patriarchy is an injustice).”

    Hmmm, yeah. BTW, what are the requirements to start referring to the manosphere in the third person? Level 50 Druid PUA or something?

  56. Men have tribes. Women are part of the “herd” or sisterhood.

    All women are part of the herd. You needn’t qualify — just being a woman gains you admission to the herd. The only way to get kicked out of a herd is to decide you’d rather be part of a tribe. Women almost never get kicked out of a herd. The entire herd circles to protect a humiliated, embarrassed, injured or maimed woman, because women are more valuable, and they all need a way to survive. The purpose of the herd/sisterhood is to PROTECT ITS MEMBERS. This is why you see attacks on slut shaming, and why all women band together to protect one another, even when those women are opposed to each other philosophically , politically, spiritually, or otherwise. All women are part of the “sisterhood”, from the most conservative Christian churchgoing woman to the most rabid radical feminist.

    The herd serves the tripartite feminine directives.

    1) Secure the highest quality sperm available for reproduction.

    2) Secure provisioning from at least one man (or if possible from as many men as possible) to support her and her offspring.

    3) If she fails in directives 1 and 2, to secure provisioning for herself by any means necessary.

    Tribes operate quite differently. To be part of a tribe, you have to qualify. You don’t get to be part of the tribe just because you have a penis. You have to have something to offer, you have to contribute something. You can get kicked out of the tribe if you have nothing to contribute, you fuck up too many times, or if the rest of the tribe just doesn’t like you. You can be alone with no tribe, or you can leave or get kicked out, and you can start your own tribe. The tribe expects each member to give something and earn something.

    The purpose of a tribe is to WIN. Winning allows the tribe to stay alive and to get resources for itself and its individual members.

    Males have two directives, one social, one sexual. The social directive is to compete and win, and to defeat other men so as to gather and maintain power. The sexual directive is have sex with as many women as possible while expending as little resources as possible.

    The tribe serves the male directives. The tribe exists to win, to defeat other tribes of men and to bring worthy men into the tribe. The tribe also exists to gain resources for itself, including women for sex and reproduction.

  57. @andy

    “Hmmm, yeah. BTW, what are the requirements to start referring to the manosphere in the third person? Level 50 Druid PUA or something?”

    when you go out enough to start recognizing the clear differences between PUAs and a lot of TRP/manosphere guys….

  58. ” . . . you can leave or get kicked out, and you can start your own tribe.”

    This is what the infamous Dog Soldiers of the Cheyenne did.

    They then absorbed one of the traditional tribes into themselves and in the last actions of the last of the free Cheyenne made a new place for themselves in the traditional tribal structure as its Special Forces.

  59. “All women are part of the herd.”

    Which is why fashion works…

    Crab basketing always in all ways… No one girl can get an advantage.

    Which is why game works, they think the same.

    Which is why contrast for a guy works, because they want that advantage of the “not like the rest”.

  60. carried over from the last thread…

    @ Sentient
    “Here’s one. Come over to you, while you are sipping a drink in a corner alone, and rub your cock with full eye contact…”

    ARGGGGGGGGGG lol it stings but you wont make that mistake again!

    “Ahhh Quix another one, from the past… Get literally kidnapped by five girls, taken out to a club, the only guy in the group, pay zero dollars… end up taking a limo back with them all sprawled on you…”

    Hahaha I have been in situations like that and looking back im like “WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU MAN?? HOW MUCH OF A WELCOME SIGN DID YOU NEED???” At least we can look back and laugh at these now, this shit used to haunt my dreams.

    @Culum
    “ great cheat sheet. Not much to add, but it’s a great thing to keep in mind. I used to have something similar for Day 2s, until I did enough to internalize most of it – but I certainly need something like it still for going out..in fact when I did my Mystery Method weekend many years ago, they made us write our personalized cheat sheet for ourselves..it’s not clear to me actually whether yours is to keep in mind for a first date or generally for a night out/cold approach – but it’s a great one either way”

    Thank you culum! Yes it’s intended to work on both cold approaches and first dates as a cold approach can turn into a first date if you play it right.

    “Also, the practical example about “change her mood, not her mind” is GREAT.”

    “I need to learn to do it more consistently but when I’ve succeeded in doing it the best way I can imagine it is like I bring up a positive state in myself and then literally project the positive energy at her..”

    Exactly! I was talking to one of my buddies about my post on “change her mood not her mind” cuz he had gotten into a fight with his wife. I told him about my examples. He cracked up and said “damn I do that sometimes without even realizing” I think a lot of married guys do this by accident including my dad, they just don’t always realize the genius level shit they are doing and don’t earmark it for future reference. My buddy said that usually when his wife is screaming at him or they are in a fight he just stops arguing and starts playing with his wife’s tits. She gets mad “what the fuck are you doing, don’t try to change the subject” but he just acts like a 14 year old boy touching his first pair of tits, stays honed in on them and making himself horny until they suddenly start fucking. It’s the same thing as my examples: breaking her state by forcing her to change her mood from angry to horny instead of from sad to happy. Another buddy chimed in and said he does the same thing but his trick is that if she is sad about her mom he makes her angry at him (until she is screaming why didn’t you do X chore you said you would!!”) just to take her mind off of her mom. Also because he knows he can take the hits (be an oak gentlemen) so why not make himself a temporary target so she can get the frustration out of her system. Another good tip is when they are made make them go for a walk/exercise; this is the same as fucking their brains out cuz it changes their state in a physical way).

  61. @Rollo
    “Push back on the invasion of male space by being uncompromising in what you do and organize with passion. Make no concessions for women in any all-male space you create or join.”

    Lol yup this is why I refuse to engage with female commenters on any redpill site; I’m here to learn and trade information with men. My plates very rarely see me on a Friday cuz they know it’s a standing guys night out every week. My plates also know better than to text me or call me when I’m out with the boys or on a guys only vacation (these are the best thing everrrrr). Same goes for my redpill friends that lead their relationships. Meanwhile, my blue pill buddies have their phones blowing up the whole night or the whole vacation, “checking in” with their women cuz the girls need validation and are feeling dread cuz they know we are gonna go out and meet girls.

    “Even just moving a friend into his new house; it’s about accomplishing something together and in that time relating about shit.”

    LOL just did this – Me and a buddy helped another buddy move. It was a disaster, took all fucking day and night, sore as fuck/jacked up my back…wouldn’t trade it for anything. Spent most of the day cracking jokes, catching up, laughing at dumb shit, making fart jokes, and moving the contents of a giant house while trading stories on conquests (my buddy banged 4 girls in a week, he told the story pretty epic. He reminded me of Yareally as he told the story because as impressive as the story was, he told it like an seasoned old hand: “Yep…sometimes go 2-3 months dry spell, then they all come pouring in at once” He is amused by this, doesn’t find it annoying because he KNOWS more girls will happen, it’s just time and effort. And my experience matches his, women often come in bursts).

    My buddy who also showed up to help sent me a text the next day that I will quote because I felt exactly the same way as he did, even if he hadn’t sent me this text:

    “Hey man I know I have told you this a million times but I love you dude. Having you there yesterday made moving a lot more enjoyable. Half the time I was just busting up to your jokes haha.”

    Good times.

    Its also funny because the buddy who sent this text is one of those bros who is a hugger, says, “I love you man”, etc. The guy we helped move is the opposite; he is a construction guy (NEVER says I love you, its fucking implied asshole, doesn’t do bro hugs, doesn’t talk about “feelings”, very old school masculine, etc.).

    I know both of my buddies felt the same way I did: a sense of accomplishment in completing the move and feeling of camaraderie from sucking it up and busting our asses for 14 hours while the women folk packed boxes, pointed to rooms where stuff went and handled food/water.

    This is now one of my fondest recent memories and it was me working back-breaking labor for beer and pizza lol. While we were out there sweating our balls off, backs aching, hours and hours more to go, I remember thinking of the scene in Shawshank redemption where the men tar a roof and then enjoy a beer together after. Life is good sometimes when you can appreciate the simple things like this. We felt like a tribe. Great article rollo 🙂

    On-topic FR
    I know that a lot of guys who read this site/red pill blogs grew up without positive male role models and few/no friends. I know this because sometimes people talk shit when I “brag” about having lots of bros. I don’t mean to brag, I just want to share my experiences because there are always other men who have had the exact same experiences as me and we can learn from each other in analysis and breakdowns. Also some guys here have autism and have said they benefit from practical step-by-step advice on social interactions and luckily I have a good memory.

    Making friends is just normal to me, not something I think of consciously. Hopefully rollo’s post will help. In that spirit here is a FR like Culum’s work event. I met a bunch of people and if I had wanted to, I could have probably hung out with them again for a beer/become friends in the future. I wasn’t going to write this up as a FR because it was mostly dudes lol but if you want to work on making male friends, maybe this will help. I should note that I did have a young attractive girl with me so “pre-selection” likely influenced a lot of what you will read below. Men respect other men with pretty girls and we all already know how women respond to pre-selection.

    Anyways, one my plates surprised me and bought tickets to an outdoor music festival. We went and DAMN I have never been as “ON” as I was at this show lol. I opened 30+ people/groups and had mostly very positive responses. It was like I had a beacon on or something, people just gravitated toward me lol. One highlight was me and my group got a bunch of people dancing, hell even the staff employees were dancing and taking pictures suddenly, it became a mini scene out of nowhere. [Note: I don’t know how to dance and don’t really care to learn because when I dance I look goofy and silly but I definitely look like I am feelin it and having fun so it makes people next to me crack up and start dancing cuz my goofiness is infectious.]

    Really all I did was have a fun, outgoing, value-giving attitude. I had some cool moments with chicks, but I was with my plate so mostly these happened when she went to the bathroom or something. A few times she was with me/watching me when I straight up opened girls lol.

    But the really interesting things were the dudes I met. I made an impact lets say lol. I got free drinks, free ahem “party favors”, free food (and food was fucking expensive just like drinks) and a legit offer to crash at a dude’s place nearby, me and my girl and anyone I invited. These were all strangers that I just got along really well with. Pretty much everyone I talked to seemed like they were dying to interact with a new person, they talked and talked and shared and shared it was so cool because I love meeting new people. Everyone is full of jokes and ideas and crazy stories so when you give them a chance to share, watch out! You will hear some crazy shit and learn new things all the time.

    Here is what I did. First, since I was with my plate, I wasn’t trying to pick up a girl (although if I had more time alone I might have gone for a number close with one girl was hot and receptive lol). I had a friend who was separately going to the same show so we met up with his group later and it got even better.

    Being at this show was crazy, I was like Neo in the matrix. I could see so many game things. I could tell which guys were doing good on dates and which were not (hint: their girls were on their cell phones browsing). I could see when girls wanted a guy next to them to open them; usually the guy did not. I could see when a guy was hitting on a girl who had zero interest.

    -99% of my openers were situational. Sometimes “Hey”

    -Some dude had a “I’m a hugger” shirt so I yelled “dude I loved your shirt” and we hugged. Him and his girl laughed, his girl and my girl had a moment “aren’t our guys awesome” lol

    -When my plate was in the bathroom I wandered off. I saw a hot girl with this amazing meat covered French fry plate so I say “Whoa! What is that!” with hard eye contact. She stops, holds eye contact, smiles, tells me what it is, I say that looks amazing with a smirk…and just wait…”Do you want some :)” Yes I ate a big fat bite her and her girlfriend were giggling. I say wats your name she tells me I say thank you. Her friend says what band are you here to see. I talk to her and eat more food, both girls laugh cuz I got sauce on my face. I say it was nice to meet you and let them go. Lots of good eye contact and sub comms.

    -Some guy behind me is talking about me (color of my shirt and what colors say) I turn around and say “so what does the color of your shirt mean?” he answers then his hot gf interrupts him to explain to me more. She held mad eye contact and it was a mini flirt moment haha.

    -Some young future PUA was kissing his girl in a manly way (she was staring up at him with wide eyes, he was talking to a buddy of his and leaned over winked at her, gave her a quick peck and went back to his convo with his buddy). I saw this, gave him a knowing head nod and put my fist out for a dap. He gave me a dap and then he overheard me say something unrelated (I was talking to my plate) and he laughed loudly even tho he couldn’t really hear (He was giving me back value because I had given him value).

    -when going up steep hill I would challenge whoever was around me (old or young, man or women, attractive or fat) to a “race” and say shit like “feel the burn” “Pop that booty” etc. Always started convos.

    -When standing in lines for beer, I would open whoever was next to me and ask “so who are you here to see?” It always turned into 5 minute convos to kill time and we had some laughs. A few times people opened me in this exact same way.

    -So fucking many IOIs lol girls doing the flipping hair trick (one funny one that I will never forget was a girl who had her hands full of gear/merchandise kept trying to flip her hair even tho her hands were full so she kept bumping stuff into her face lmao), lots of darting eye contact, sometimes HARD eye contact with full on come approach me eyebrows, a few of the show me their butt/lift one leg slightly, and a ton of standing here for no reason sudden proximity. Also really funny ones were girls with their boyfriends trying to give me eye contact/lick lips/do the fixing their hair IOI while they were hugging their boyfriends or holding hands. Crazy.

    -The buddy I ran into brought a chode friend (nice guy, in decent shape, good job, not ugly but lacks style and is very needy). This guy meant well and opened over 10 girls in my presence but damn every girl RAN away like he had the plague. He helped me realize how far I have come, like what NOT TO DO lol. He had needy energy, was complimenting there looks as openers, tried kino but they recoiled every time. It was crazy cuz a couple girls were wasted, easy gimmies but he still made them skeeved cuz he had such AFC energy. I talked to him and gave him tips, where to hold his beer, don’t compliment, open from the side not from behind like a creeper or direct like he is marching toward them and a bunch of Yareally tips. He needs a lot of work tho gonna take him out and wing for him cuz he is a true hard case. I did give him mad props cuz he has no approach anxiety (although his body language signaled “I KNOW I AM GOING TO FAIL” a few times) and handled rejection very well (never yelled or got butt hurt and only a few times did he go back and try to reopen the girl even tho there was no chance in hell; most chodes reopen over and over until the girl tells them FUCK OFF!”) One of the times he walked up, got rejected and another dude (stranger) swooped on the same girl and pointed out what a chode my friend guy was. The girl was way more receptive to the stranger (the stranger was conventionally attractive, tall, handsome not fat) UNTIL…the stranger got a little too handsy, kept pawing at the girl. She immediately started to freeze up and eventually walked away from this guy. This guy got PISSED because he is an attractive guy and in his mind, he is way better than my AFC friend who she had blown out a moment before; the stranger didn’t want to be in the same box as my AFC friend.

    -I did see a lot of closed off frustrated dudes, just from their body language/facial expressions/subcomms. Once I was standing by the bathroom and some guy asked me “Jeezus is that the line?” I told him yes, told him where another bathroom was. Well some dude on our opposite side in a group of 3 men overheard and joined in. We cracked a few jokes and then when the conversation naturally dissolved, one of the men in the group of 3 made the “what is up with that guy?” scrunched face about me. I saw him do it and called him on it. I said, “What?” He immediately said “uhh no I was just agreeing with you…” It made me smile because we have all been that guy. He wanted to take value away from me and give himself value by making fun of me but really I had done nothing but be friendly and offer useful advice about the bathrooms. Another one was while I was in line for a different bathroom (lol getting old sucks), I struck up a convo with 2 guys next to me about the headliner and their best album etc. I could see the dude in front of us was yearning to join our convo. He kept looking at us, kept doing that thing where you are about to say something but then change your mind but your mouth already started to move a little. He was so shy, he dropped his head every time a man or women walked past him, never held eye contact with anyone, kept hugging one arm with the other (I had to get rid of that exact tic myself about a year ago, it’s a self-comforting body language signal; took me a month of earnest work to notice when I started to do it and unlearn the tic) and looked painfully lonely. I felt bad for him but its not like I could change his whole personality in a 2 minute convo lol so I just smiled at him and nodded my head; wish I could have done more.

    -Two young cool guys (tatted up, in good shape and shirtless, hitler youth haircuts, basically the “cool guys in 2016” look) started to talk to me about the band playing, we ended up having a really good time talking to these dudes. They were amazing to watch cuz they did not give one fuck about shit lol. They talked to everyone and opened a bunch of people next to us. My favorite memory about these guys is one of them started to stick his hand out to strangers walking by for free High 5s. Most people gave them and smiled but a few closed off angry dudes gave him dirty looks. Every girl gave them to him and giggled. Well my girl was watching this and she started to offer high 5s. OMG hahaha being a girl is so fun sometimes the ratio SHOT UP lol. Everyone was giving her high 5s except wait for it…ugly girls and closed off angry guys. The looks on her face were priceless; as a young hot girl she is not used to being rejected for ANYTHING, even a high 5. Me and one of the young guys explained to her that she just saw into the matrix for a moment – how you can learn a lot about a person based on how they react to you. If you are being genuine and open, most people in a good mental space are gonna be open back. But the closed off guys probably thought she was doing it ironically to make fun of them or the ugly girls didn’t want to give her value. Anyways, one of these guys gave me their brand new food it was super cool and it was a parting gift when they wandered off cuz they liked hanging with us.

    -the last big one I remember was a doozy. This was a white guy, late 30s early 40s by himself. He looked lost so I asked him how his day was going. He went off lol. He was pretty drunk and looking for a fight. He kept talking shit on people from my state being unfriendly (hes from the south). We talked and I made him feel understood, like I get that when you are out and being friendly and everyone gives you the cold shoulder it is painful and frustrating. He ended up telling me he was abused as a child by his dad, has been in countless fights, explained the reason his nose was so crooked is because he has been in so many fights and doesn’t stop until he wins. All this guy needed was to feel heard because once we talked for like 5 minutes, he was calm and hugging me and offering me a place to stay. He demanded to give me his phone number and address. I have 100% no doubt if it had hit him up I could have crashed at his place but luckily I am not in need. But this helped me understand RSD Tyler and Yareally so much better; I get how Tyler always had someone offering their couch to crash on. Here is a great little anecdote/trick I wont forget either (my young plate impressed the shit out of me with this, it’s crazy how much young girls understand social dynamics because they HAVE TO): This guy wanted to be my new best friend lol so my plate let us talk and she hung back but when the moment was right she called his attention, whispered something in his ear and he instantly stood up straight, shook my hand and said his goodbye (I ended up hugging him cuz he needed it, he hugged me back like a little kid; kinda sad). What did my plate tell him? “I want to steal him for moment, do you mind? It’s our anniversary” BAHAHA I am totally gonna steal that line the next time I need someone temperamental to fuck off. He didn’t want to ruin things on our “anniversary” so he dipped but first he spent a minute telling my plate that I am the best guy in the world lol.

    The crazy thing was the effect all these moments had on my plate. Her watching me be this social juggernaut and it turned her on like crazy. Several times I overheard different strangers telling my girl stuff like “your man is really fucking cool” or “your man is one of the nicest people I ever met.” One dude straight up told her “give him really good head later” lmao. They made her admire me more because they were strangers and they were telling her “YOUR DUDE IS AWESOME.”

    Since I had not been mate guarding (only held her hand to pull her throw crowded areas as I led) and only kissed her once throughout the day, she couldn’t take it anymore and when we made eye contact, she shook her head, smiled, grabbed a fist full of my shirt and pulled me into her for a passionate makeout. Then she started playing with my dick behind her back as we watched a band. Lol.

    How does this connect to rollo’s post? Be open, make people feel comfortable, let them tell their best stories that demonstrate their value, and they will want to hang with you again. Comment on their statements in an authentic way; don’t be afraid to disagree if you think differently. Build rapport by sharing similar experiences/stories of your own or opposite ones to show your experience was very different than theirs. Build from there. Like Rollo said, when making male friends, instead of just talking like girls focus on initiating activities: games, sports, shooting, even drinking. Trust me you will end up talking while doing those activities.

    And you will learn some men just like it quiet. Some buddies we drive 45 minutes in silence but it is a comfortable silence. We don’t need to gab about nonsense but if we have something of value to share, we talk the whole way. Fishing and hunting are great quiet activities with little talking but you still bond cuz you are working as a team and have roles to fill.

    Be a leader -plan the event don’t wait for someone else to do it. Take risks and put yourself out there, people want to express themselves and if you make them feel like they won’t be mocked for being real, you will see just how open and real they can be.

    Applies to men just as much as women.

  62. And my experience matches his, women often come in bursts

    I’ve always wondered about this, if there is a chemical/biological/pheromones thing, to the point if you went to a whore, and next day to a bar you would be more likely to score. Maybe it’s pressing too hard when nothing is going on, but still it’s like women have a sixth sense for getting into the competition for popular sperm.

  63. @redlight

    “I’ve always wondered about this, if there is a chemical/biological/pheromones thing, to the point if you went to a whore, and next day to a bar you would be more likely to score. Maybe it’s pressing too hard when nothing is going on, but still it’s like women have a sixth sense for getting into the competition for popular sperm.”

    I wrote a FR here a while back where I fucked one of my plates and then a few minutes later I went out gaming; it went great cuz I wasn’t attached to the outcome; picked up one of the hottest girls I ever dated.

    I have thought the same thing man. I think it really is the subcomms not the smell/pheremones. This is why girls like guys with bed head hair lol. Meaning that when you have sex with a women, your hair is tussled, you smell like sweat (hers and yours), your dick smells like pussy, you are super relaxed, your eyes are low and sleepy, and generally you dont give a fuck about what other people are up to because you are in that super relaxed state (aloof). I used to think they could smell the perfume/pussy on my dick, and maybe it’s part of it, but now I am more attributing it to the subcomms that you put out after you got laid.

    So basically yes I agree with you but you need to go out and game until you get to the point where you treat all girls the same: your mom, your sister, girls you date, girls at work, whores, etc. Do not place them in different categories or you will AUTOMATICALLY place them in different categories and unconsciously treat them different.

    Meaning yes if you go fuck a whore and then go game girls, you should be a little more relaxed. Where i do not see this working tho is with guys who treat certain girls differently (meaning you were being your real self when you fucked the whore cuz who cares she is just some whore but now when you are approaching a “real” girl you are actually interested in dating, you suddenly become more nervous because this interaction is “real” where your brain treated the interaction with the prostie like it was “fake” cuz she was paid not someone you picked up).

    Where I do really agree with you is here: If you are in a rut/haven’t gotten laid in a long time – GO DUMPSTER DIVING. Find a girl for no string sex. Try craigslist hookup section or the whore apps like tinder. It’s a great way to get rid of that needy thirsty vibe and it puts you in a mode where getting laid is normal and expected. It’s kind of the same thing as the gym. If you go every day, you don’t get as sore. But when you take a month off from the gym your muscles are on fire the next day from inactivity. So “go to the gym” (get laid) anyway you can, then use that to build your confidence to approach other girls, sleep with them, keep the cycle going so you don’t get rusty. When we were at the concert my plate would notice and point out guys that needed to get laid (just from their body language/faces). I agreed with her most times; guys who are thirsty have a certain look and are always checking to see who is watching them/who is noticing them and acting uptight around pretty girls. Its ok tho we have all been there and you can fix it

  64. ” It is literally in my DNA to be suspicious of tribalism,” he told me. “I understand the tribal impulse, and acknowledge the power of tribal division. I’ve been navigating tribal divisions my whole life. In the end, it’s the source of a lot of destructive acts.”
    Barack Obama. ”

    Lol.

    One of the reasons I will be glad when O’s presidency ends, is that I won’t have to see dumb shit like this anymore.

    Facts are stubborn things. Hate and misreading/misunderstanding situations are fool’s errands.

    8 years of ” the devil in the whitehouse…. ” Jesus.

    Insofar as middle eastern ” tribalism ” being a problem re: Stable gov’t and what not ( this is what he’s referring to btw ), or ” tribes ” killing one another for no other reason than they are separate tribes ( also what he’s referring to..), his facts, as the Leader of a nation, are on point.

    Articles like the one in the link are shit.

    So are these…

    ” Iran Tortured Captured US Marine, Obama Did Not Care ”

    Lmao, gtfoh with that stupid shit.

    Obama has enough REAL shit to criticize. I tire of the crazy made up bullshit.

    Men need a ” Smart, informed and reasonable ” Tribe a.s.a.p.

    Lol.

  65. Guys in this thread talking about how women are all sheep in a herd who can be programmed to think and act the same by social conditioning media etc that tells them to wear the same clothes and think/talk/act the same, when last thread women were all magically able to resist and reject social conditioning…how come you guys aren’t saying those girls are all just biologically involuntarily hardwired to wear uggs? I mean every girl in that pic is dressed the same so that’s proof that it’s involuntarily hardwired into them otherwise we wouldn’t see such a common trend!

    …or it might be that no one has any investment in believing uggs are hardwired. lol

    @redlight @quixotic
    “And my experience matches his, women often come in bursts”

    “I’ve always wondered about this, if there is a chemical/biological/pheromones thing, to the point if you went to a whore, and next day to a bar you would be more likely to score. Maybe it’s pressing too hard when nothing is going on, but still it’s like women have a sixth sense for getting into the competition for popular sperm.”

    It’s subcomms not some unpredictable magic pheromone sixth sense woowoo shit lol When you’re getting laid your subcomms are more chill/non-needy/etc and you give less of a fuck about the outcome of your interactions with women (which again makes your subcomms more solid).

    End result is attraction. Then shit happens in real life (you get lazy, real life problems come up, girls cause drama, whatever) and your subcomms get fucked up ’cause you got shit on your mind and your subcomms end up all over the map. Like say one of your girls moves away, now you wanna replace her because you don’t have that Tuesday fuck lined up anymore so you go on the hunt but you’re a little more outcome dependent, which gets you rejected, then you’re struggling to prove to yourself that you’re still a pimp by trying to get a good reaction but that all just loops on top of itself with more and more outcome dependence and boom, dry spell till you chill the fuck out and start enjoying the game again.

    “Where I do really agree with you is here: If you are in a rut/haven’t gotten laid in a long time – GO DUMPSTER DIVING”

    Only prob there is if the girl is below your personal threshold for what you can respect yourself banging, you’ll end up with shittier subcomms afterward ’cause you’ll resent yourself for banging her and feel gross/dirty and then you end up going out trying to prove to yourself that you deserve better than that girl and here we are back in outcome dependence and shitty subcomms lol

    @quixotic
    Good Field Report on the other benefits of sarging. The angry guy you talked into hugging you and offering you his place to crash etc is a good example of what I do out there. People think oh that guy is going to smash your face in cuz he’s angry and does MMA BRO!!!!11111 but not only can you use your rapport/comfort shit to lead a guy like that into chilling out and even cheering him up, but when you know what you’re doing you can even talk shit to a guy like that and make fun of his crooked nose and he’ll lol along with you about it and like you MORE for it (because you only do that once you’ve crossed the hook point threshold where he views you two as having a bond, and it’s okay for a buddy with a bond to make fun of his nose…this is all calibration, don’t go trying this shit randomly as a newbie lol).

    It looks like magic but it’s just understanding psychology, holding a strong frame (that violence isn’t going to happen), and pacing then leading their reality.

    @scray @Andy
    “when you go out enough to start recognizing the clear differences between PUAs and a lot of TRP/manosphere guys….”

    lol this.

  66. ““when you go out enough to start recognizing the clear differences between PUAs and a lot of TRP/manosphere guys….”
    lol this.”

  67. ” It looks like magic but it’s just understanding psychology, holding a strong frame (that violence isn’t going to happen), and pacing then leading their reality.”

    …. not always. Be prepared. Lol….

  68. @Yareally

    “End result is attraction. Then shit happens in real life (you get lazy, real life problems come up, girls cause drama, whatever) and your subcomms get fucked up ’cause you got shit on your mind and your subcomms end up all over the map. Like say one of your girls moves away, now you wanna replace her because you don’t have that Tuesday fuck lined up anymore so you go on the hunt but you’re a little more outcome dependent, which gets you rejected, then you’re struggling to prove to yourself that you’re still a pimp by trying to get a good reaction but that all just loops on top of itself with more and more outcome dependence and boom, dry spell till you chill the fuck out and start enjoying the game again.”

    LOL ignore my post and read Yareallys, way more concise and he said what I wanted to say more clearly. Fighting the ego is the biggest battle once you start having success with women because you don’t want to go backwards. So you will sometimes not approach if you think it could lead to a rejection. I am still fighting this, will always fight it. In my mind I’m a ‘ladies man’ so if women stop treating me like one it will hurt my ego. Easiest way to avoid that is to not approach new women and “preserve” my status as a ladies man. Fuck that shit lol learn to tear it all down. It will make you grow 🙂

    “Only prob there is if the girl is below your personal threshold for what you can respect yourself banging, you’ll end up with shittier subcomms afterward ’cause you’ll resent yourself for banging her and feel gross/dirty and then you end up going out trying to prove to yourself that you deserve better than that girl and here”

    Haha thank you for pointing this out. I agree it can make you feel bad/low (and it is harder to get it up if you aren’t legit attracted to the girl vs. when you are super attracted to the girl and you could hang a wet towel off your boner). I forgot that part because it worked for me personally (I had very low self-esteem). So it worked for me to start with low SMV girls who treated me like a king and leveled up to hotter and hotter girls who treat me like a king the same way as the uggos treated me. It was once I got to the real hotties that I had problems cuz they don’t send nearly as many IOIs or tell you how much they want you, like you said they just EXPECT YOU TO KNOW lol. Then you have to train them to treat you the way you want to be treated. More work but worth it. Swing for the fences boys, the faster you learn this, the better.

    “but not only can you use your rapport/comfort shit to lead a guy like that into chilling out and even cheering him up, but when you know what you’re doing you can even talk shit to a guy like that and make fun of his crooked nose and he’ll lol along with you about it and like you MORE for it (because you only do that once you’ve crossed the hook point threshold where he views you two as having a bond, and it’s okay for a buddy with a bond to make fun of his nose…this is all calibration, don’t go trying this shit randomly as a newbie lol).”

    Thank you for the tips, i will note for next time and push it, see what happens

  69. It’s subcomms not some unpredictable magic pheromone sixth sense woowoo shit lol When you’re getting laid your subcomms are more chill/non-needy/etc and you give less of a fuck about the outcome of your interactions with women (which again makes your subcomms more solid).

    When a guy (or woman) gets off their systems are flooded with oxytocin. When a guy’s T levels are high this triggers aggressive behavior. When a runner finishes a 10K his system is flooded with dopamine and he gets relaxed with a ‘runner’s high’.

    When women are in their proliferative phase of ovulation their biochemistry predisposes them to sexual behaviors. How that’s expressed is subject to social contexts, but the motivators are the same.

  70. Rollo stated –

    ” By controlling men’s intrasex communications with each other the Feminine Imperative can limit men’s unified, collective, understanding of masculinity and male experiences. Feminine-primary society hates and is terrified of men defining and asserting masculinity for themselves (to the point of typifying it as potentially violent), but as connectivity progresses we will see a more concentrated effort to lock down the narrative and the means of men communicating male experiences.

    I’ve detailed in many prior posts how the imperative has deliberately misdirected and confused men about a unified definition of masculinity. That confusion is designed to keep men guessing and doubting about their “security in their manhood” while asserting that the feminine-correct definition is the only legitimate definition of healthy, ‘non-toxic’, masculinity. This deliberate obfuscation and ambiguity about what amounts to ‘authentic masculinity’ is another means of controlling men’s awareness of their true masculine potential and value – a potential that they rightly fear will mean acquiescing to men’s power over their Hypergamous social and personal control. Anything less than a definition of masculinity that fosters female primacy and fempowerment is labeled “toxic masculinity” – literally and figuratively poisonous.”

    This is key.

    I still attempt to befriend younger ( 20-30 year old ) males, but it’s hard to find a common ground with most. They seem very timid and feminine, meaning their thought processes are more like females than males. Often they will ridicule masculine ideals with a smarmy, joking manner rivaling most feminists.

    I have 5 nephews in the age range stated above. 3 of them have been fairly reachable re: masculine teachings, but the other 2 find everything ” funny “. It’s fine to be lighthearted, I get that, but a man has to be able to do a multitude of things in life.

    Women get to coast ( in today’s society ), but men do so at their own peril, mentally and physically..

  71. @ya

    “Guys in this thread talking about how women are all sheep in a herd who can be programmed to think and act the same by social conditioning media etc that tells them to wear the same clothes and think/talk/act the same, when last thread women were all magically able to resist and reject social conditioning”

    ya….

    and if they come back and say ‘well women are biologically programmed to follow the herd!’ then it’s like okay lol how is that diff than what PUAs say about seeking social status?

    @quix

    “Where I do really agree with you is here: If you are in a rut/haven’t gotten laid in a long time – GO DUMPSTER DIVING. Find a girl for no string sex.”

    negative.

    dudes who feel the need to dumpster dive probably haven’t ever banged a legit hottie.

    once you stick your dick in an 8+, let alone multiple > 8’s….there is just a threshold you are never going to drop beneath ever again. ever.

    but sure if you mean like….6’s or whatever, ya. but for most guys that isn’t dumpster diving that’s…’omg i wish she would be mine 4ever!’

  72. Yareally

    The stimulus for the herd following behaviors is what’s programmed. i.e. the fish video.

    You cant just pick and choose what evo psych you want to follow. It all holds together or it doesn’t.

    I’m surprised you are choosing not to get that?

  73. @rollo

    “When a guy (or woman) gets off their systems are flooded with oxytocin. When a guy’s T levels are high this triggers aggressive behavior. When a runner finishes a 10K his system is flooded with dopamine and he gets relaxed with a ‘runner’s high’.
    When women are in their proliferative phase of ovulation their biochemistry predisposes them to sexual behaviors. How that’s expressed is subject to social contexts, but the motivators are the same.”

    the relationships aren’t as simple as you’re saying they are.

    Aggressive behavior follows T, but T may also follows aggressive behavior.

    that research, like a lot of other evo psych research is full of contradictory findings

    GENERALLY, we know that men having 20-50x more test than the average woman produces gender differences in behavior. but WITHIN gender differences are much murkier….

    re: female ovulatory stuff —- the evidence really is not that strong

    http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/unify_uploads/files/Gildersleeve,%20Haselton,%20&%20Fales%202014%20meta%20of%20mate%20prefs.pdf

    preference for facial symmetry — not stat sig

    pref for scents associated for facial symmetry — not stat sig

    pref for ‘structural facial masculinity’ — very low effect < .2

    pref for 'structural body masculinity' — very low effect < .2 barely stat sig

    pref for 'deep voice' — small-mod effect size, study has no idea if stat sig

    pref for 'dominance' — practically zero and not stat sig

    pref for facial cues of testosterone — small effect size < .2 and not stat sig

    it's true that the authors massage the analysis A LOT to wind up trying to shore up ovulatory shift theory and whatnot because a lot of Phds have run their mouths about it for the better part of 20 years…….

  74. @sentient

    “The stimulus for the herd following behaviors is what’s programmed. i.e. the fish video.”

    lol and as predicted –>

    ‘and if they come back and say ‘well women are biologically programmed to follow the herd!’ then it’s like okay lol how is that diff than what PUAs say about seeking social status?’

    and PUAs say that women are PRIMED to simply seek out TOP DOG and that’s it and LOOK FOR CUES TO DO SO.

    it would be more advantageous for women not to be tied down to physical appearance and instead be hard-wired to look for behaviors….that would allow the most robust survival chances over the widest range of environments.

  75. @Blaximus
    Blue guy squared up and participated in the monkey dance, he had the frame of “violence is a definite possibility”:

    @Sentient
    “You cant just pick and choose what evo psych you want to follow. It all holds together or it doesn’t.”

    Evo-psych is great. I fully subscribe to the idea that women are biologically hardwired to be attracted to things that indicate 100% always attractive traits.

    The difference in what I’m saying is in WHAT those consistent 100% always attractive core diamond traits ARE, because we have tons of evidence that looks aren’t consistently attractive whereas confidence, preselection, etc are ALWAYS attractive. In a society that programs the fish to believe that muscles are attractive, women’s brains calculate that a guy who has muscles must also have preselection, unless he does stuff to counter that (bad subcomms).

    Nothing I’m saying goes against evo-psych (assuming evo-psych says that what’s attractive are traits that indicate a high % chance of survival/replication, not muscles or money themselves being attractive specifically (ie – in a society that doesn’t require money, you having money no longer has value to the girl)). You guys are just shooting arrows at the tree holding up the bulls-eye is all lol

  76. When a shoal of fish all turn “simultaneously” they are exhibiting social behaviour, but not social conditioning.

    When sharks gather in groups they do not exhibit shoaling behaviour. Their motion appears random, individual. Not only do they lack the psychology, they lack the physical attributes to support it.

  77. Scray

    It’s predictible because your premise doesn’t hold up hence inviting clarification.

    What is top dog seeking about women wearing rompers and aviator glasses?

    Or is rather wired intra female competitve balancing like every other area of female socialization – crab basketing?

    Awalt yo…

  78. @YaReally

    Women pretty much have a herd mentality. Lol, I’ve spent the bulk of my life surrounded by them from birth.

    Social conditioning can give the herd something to focus on, but that mentality is already there. Social conditioning can also be used to try and stem the actions of the heard, but once it is removed, the herd will focus on whatever’s handy ( feminism in this case ) and stampede with it.

    I don’t believe social conditioning can answer so many questions re: behavior. Social conditioning has it’s effect on people, but there is sometimes a deeper programming that drives behavior.

    If social conditioning was a definitive thing, why don’t ” nice guys ” have eternal success? Society preaches the Nice Guy ideal. Lol.

    Social conditioning tells men to buy flowers and 2 month salary rings and open doors and be sensitive. Lmao, yeah right, then why all of the turmoil between the sexes?

    I don’t argue that social conditioning isn’t a ” thing “, but it is a weak thing that can be bumrushed and overcome fairly easily.

    Imo, all men should learn to recognize what part of them has been socially conditioned ( many men accept the conditioning and can’t shake it…to their owb detriment ) and excise it from their psyche.

  79. ‘What is top dog seeking about women wearing rompers and aviator glasses?’

    women who wear those things get the high status guys.

  80. @scray

    “dudes who feel the need to dumpster dive probably haven’t ever banged a legit hottie.

    once you stick your dick in an 8+, let alone multiple > 8’s….there is just a threshold you are never going to drop beneath ever again. ever.

    but sure if you mean like….6’s or whatever, ya. but for most guys that isn’t dumpster diving that’s…’omg i wish she would be mine 4ever!’”

    Yes Yes very true. I should have clarified that my dumpster diving comment was meant for guys who are at the very bottom starting their game journey, hard cases who feel like there is no hope. There is always hope. And just cuz this method worked for me doesn’t mean anyone needs to follow my example, there are so many ways to skin a cat.

    Once you have banged hotter girls, you WONT let yourself go back below a certain level of hotness. “I could have been happy being poor if i had never been rich”

    Scray I don’t know your personal scale but my highest SMV girls so far have been 8s (7.5 if you rate em harsh) and those were recent. From how you talk/demonstrate your field experience i can tell you have been around longer than me practicing game and pulled hotter girls consistently. Hope to catch up to you someday! Thanks for your input scray.

  81. ” What is top dog seeking about women wearing rompers and aviator glasses?’”

    Lol, not a damn thing.

    Beware of social conditioning that convinces you that whatever women deem as sexy, you have to buy into it.

    Wanna seem aloof? lol, ignore conditioning. You won’t need to act aloof, you will not give a fuck.

  82. ” . . . women who wear those things get the high status guys.”

    And yet tomorrow they will all turn simultaneously away from rompers and aviator glasses.

    And the same women will still get the same high status guys – and they know it.

  83. I have nothing against a man playing ” a game ” in life.

    I just want him to always understand that it’s a game.

  84. @quix

    “Yes Yes very true. I should have clarified that my dumpster diving comment was meant for guys who are at the very bottom starting their game journey, hard cases who feel like there is no hope”

    yeah but that’s not going to make them feel better if they feel like they deserve better girls. it’s just going to reinforce what they’re trying to change: their current SMV is low.

    it SUCKS to go out and constantly get rejected and shit on, believe me i know.

    but the more you go out there the more you realize that the only thing holding you back is fear and insecurity.

    the world is only going to give you what you’re truly ready for.

    like, if you can’t handle some chick talking shit to you in a bar, what’s going to happen when she goes loco and blows up your social media with a bunch of lies, or what’s going to happen if dudes who are jealous of you spread malicious rumors?

    your frame needs to be like iron. she doesn’t want to be with a guy who can’t handle the world.

    ‘From how you talk/demonstrate your field experience i can tell you have been around longer than me practicing game and pulled hotter girls consistently’

    yeah but there’s a price.

    you have to give up on the quest for acceptance

    as they say, always bring who you are…never who they want.

  85. @kfg

    “And yet tomorrow they will all turn simultaneously away from rompers and aviator glasses.
    And the same women will still get the same high status guys – and they know it.”

    yup social conditioning changes.

    and yup, women project their own desires onto male desires via solipsism and oft times focus on the wrong things.

    so cool, PUAs are right again!

  86. The particular direction a shoal of fish turns in is random, unpredictable. If it weren’t, the behaviour would be without function.

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