Recently, I’ve been very busy with more than a few business projects. ‘Success Coaches’ always tell you to develop passive forms of income in addition to whatever it is you consider your vocation, but I have an odd habit of turning my past “vocations” into passive forms of income as I move on to my next project.
Then I’ve had the audiobook of The Rational Male as a front-burner project for my leisure time along with doing re-edits of the first printed book (new, better-edited, bigger font edition coming soon) and then there’s the first draft of the third book I’m picking away at.
In between all of that I’ve been doing my best to stay on top of the comment threads for the essays I’m writing. Among these, for the past 6 or 7 months has been the saga of a commenter who goes by Softek. While I haven’t been able to keep abreast of all his comments and the exceptional advice of fellow Rational readers, I’m going to take a moment now to address his situation because it serves as an example, and perhaps a warning, to Red Pill aware men who come into a new awakened understanding of intergender dynamics and fall prey to some of the pitfalls inherent in unplugging themselves from their prior illusions.
I’ve followed Softek’s unplugging and his increased confidence from a thoroughly Blue Pill conditioned guy to something approaching Alpha confidence. Whether this is beginning to stick and becoming an internalized part of who Softek is as a man, I’ll let him say, but recently he’s been dealing with some of the fallout that comes from being caught up in what I went through in Dream Girls and Children with Dynamite.
Another very common occurrence is the “reformed” AFC who makes progress toward becoming more Game savvy, and as a result gets his “dream girl”, only to lose her after reverting back into an AFC frame once he’s in an LTR with her. I’m not a big Ross Jefferies fan, but he did say something very profound once, he said “teaching PUA skills to these chumps is like giving dynamite to children.” This is probably truer than he realized, because the potential for disaster is much higher. Most guys want that silver bullet, the magic formula that will get them the girl, but it does nothing to prepare them for the idyllic LTR their beta nature has fantasized about for so very long. They don’t become Men, they become children with dynamite. So are we really surprised when the guy who finally gets his Dream Girl as a result of learning Game becomes despondent and suicidal when he loses the “best thing he’ll ever have” when she leaves him? Are we shocked when his ONEitis turns out to be a BPD girl and his life’s ambitions fall into a death-spiral because he was unprepared to deal with a post-Game LTR?
Now, I’m not suggesting that Softek is despondent or suicidal in his present position. In fact, likely not because he’s got a base of support on this blog and in the manosphere at large to coach him through it. I’ll let him outline his situation in the comment thread for this post, however, Softek’s situation of getting wrapped up in a yo-yo clingy BPD relationship reminded me of a story I’m not very proud to relate, but in the interests of other guys in a similar situation I’ll explain it.
The Price of a BPD
Towards the end of my relationship with my own BPD there came a point when I attempted to make it work with her as a long distance relationship (LDR). This was really the last nail in the coffin for us. I knew damn well she was ‘cheating’ on me while I blithely convinced myself I would eventually get her to move another state away to join me so I could continue wallowing in her neurotic psychological abuse of me.
I’m happy to say that never happened, but it came at a cost. At one point during the LDR I had to make a decision in order to find a way to drive over a state to see her college graduation. I’d already had my (correct) suspicions she was fucking a guy from one of her classes, but I wasn’t entirely sure. You’ve got to understand that as a BPD she’d already had me ‘converted’ to accept her frame as the dominant one. And as pathetic as it’ll sound, I was still her thrall and blamed myself for her neurosis even as I lived 800 miles away.
People love to cast me as some life-long Alpha, but I’ve been Beta, a natural Alpha, and during this period of my life I was approaching Omega (by Vox’s definitions). If there’s a bright side, it was that the bit I’m about to relate to you was the catalyst in my turning my life around to be a ‘lesser Alpha’ in a permanent way.
I had already been brought low. In her neurotic jealousy, she insisted that I toss out a photo album of all the times I’d been on stage in my Hollywood days and essentially destroy the memories of friends and events I had archived of that time. It was like losing part of my soul, but I did so because I thought she was right; I was convinced anything that came before her that I’d done was the source of her distempers.
You might think that was bad, but in order for me to go to her graduation – the time she intentionally had me discover her fucking this guy – I had to pay for that horrible experience by selling off two very expensive guitars. I won’t tell you the brand, but they were a 12 and a 6 string acoustic that was priceless to me. Even the guy I sold them to asked me if I was sure I wanted to part with them, he could tell I didn’t.
But I did sell them, for $800. Now they’d be worth around $4,000, but it’s not the dollar value I regret the most, it was voluntarily cutting off a limb from myself for the privilege of learning exactly how fucked up this person was. The only time I’ve ever snapped with Mrs. Tomassi was her casually suggesting I might sell off a guitar from my present collection. She knew there was something more to it and I’ve never silenced her with more seriousness.
I have one post outlining Borderline Personality Disorder and I feel like it’s all I really needed to post about it. There was a time in my life when I was completely in the dark about anything like it, so when I first discovered it in the DSM while studying psych it literally sent chills down my spine.
After this traumatic experience, I came to realize that while all the women I’d been convinced and conditioned to believe were my duty to be supportive of were banging other men and earning degrees, my life was paralyzed. Now, in hindsight, I can see that my beating myself up over being stalled in life because of my Blue Pill conditioning was misplaced. ONEitis will do that to you, but when you combine it with a BPD it takes a trauma to wake you up – either that or you swallow a bullet or put a rope around your neck.
On the BPD comment thread, there’s a sobering account of another man’s experience with a BPD woman. I’ll quote it here, but virtually every experience I’ve had men relate to me about a BPD is a frighteningly similar story.
So, to start, I discovered that my ex was having an affair, revolving around a “church based canoe group”. Initially, I began questioning and blaming myself, telling her that we needed to work it out. I spoke to a professional seeking support and answers, who somehow got her in to see him.
He reported to me that he diagnosed her with Borderline Personality Disorder, and that I had some major choices to make, as she rejected his diagnosis and any thought of treatment. He advised that she would never change without help, and that what she did had little to do with me or the children – it was all about her.
I initially failed to understand, and tried to reconcile. Over the next few months she promised to try, and even started going to church.
But, little-by-little she revealed how this had begun, first with lesbian affairs with coworkers, then eventually, when I bought her a new car, but declined to take a car maintenance class with her – she slept with the mechanic giving the class. I learned of more in rapid succession, of affairs, one night stands, and worse over a 7 year period. She was in the medical field and used the cover of being on call,being in surgery, working extra for a dentist, going to medical conferences, etc, etc.(I could comment on my opinion of medical morals, but ’nuff said) I recalled an occasion when I got overwhelmingly sleepy after consuming a soft drink at a movie with the ex. I realize now that she drugged me. She also infected me twice with STDs, telling me she had a yeast infection. She put antibiotic in my food unknown to me. My children later reported to me, when asked, that whoever I was out of town, the ex was “always” gone to the hospital at night “on call”.
The gross details aren’t necessary, but the revelations shook me back to reality. (disgusting, degrading, and sick are better terms even than gross)
She began trying to convince me to sell our house and move. Now awake, I realized that she wanted her share and would dump the children on the street and force a move to a new neighborhood. I had recently pulled her off the chest of our 11 year old son when she tried to strangle him for begging her not to leave him – so I wasn’t exactly fooled by her house sale drive. I resolved that my children needed to have the support of friends and family, and not be moved out of their home and away from friends. How I would do this came to me eventually – wait long enough and she would find another prince, but couldn’t hide it easily, and would have to leave.
I had been contacted by the wife of her latest affair, a physician whom she had recommended me to for minor surgery.(Roll that around for a second). She and I had quite a conversation, during which I learned that he had “done this before with his office nurse, and she had attempted suicide when he dumped her – possibly for my wife”. I advised her to seek professional medical and legal council, but also delivered an explicit warning concerning what I would do if I ever saw her husband in public.
The next day the ex came home late from work, crying and just glaring at me (a Thursday BTW – a favorite day for medical professionals at some hospitals to play, as it offers the cover for some surgeons who “have surgery that day”.) The next day, after meeting with her surgeon friend again, she proceeded to drive her car right in front of an oncoming truck, suffering broken ribs. I rushed to the hospital, told she was being X-rayed and that I should go to the room she was assigned. I did so and in rearranging the pillows on the bed, found a hand written note from a “friend” indicating they would be by later. I didn’t stay long after she got to the room.
Well, we bought her a new truck, and about 3 weeks later, she called to inform me that she was taking our motor home on a canoe trip that afternoon, and when she returned, she was “leaving the family”. She asked our teenaged daughter to drop her off, and my daughter called me, appalled, that the canoe trip was my ex and 4 men. My daughter said she threw gravel “all over them” with her rapid departure.
She never said anything to the children, but shortly after informed me that she was leaving that afternoon. She got friends to help her move and was gone when my dad and I returned from picking up the kids at school golf team practice.
The judge at the divorce hearing classified her as having abandoned the family and offered to impose child support payments on her – which I declined, in an attempt to cut all ties.
That was 31 years ago, and we had absolutely no contact with her until Dec 24, when a scribbled note, from some tiny town in East Texas arrived, stating that she had breast cancer, and I should take “appropriate measures concerning the children”.
I can’t imagine that she thinks any of us care!
So, that’s my early life’s scary story – though I left the horror story parts out!
Be safe, there are really monsters in the world!
P S – My 2 older children are college educated,very successful professional people with families and children. I remarried a spectacular woman a few years after, the true savior of our lives, and have a third child, who is a Nurse Practitioner, and who also has 2 children.(I have advised her about morals in the medical field particularly).
Softek, the reason I’m dedicating an entire post (and hopefully an on-topic comment thread) about this is because, in my estimate, you’re in both a more precarious, yet potentially more hopeful, position than guys who’ve dealt with what you are now. My concern is that your Red Pill awareness and basic Game skills have brought you a dangerous woman. It’s the kids with dynamite dynamic I’m seeing unfold.
The good news is you have a solid community of men ready to help you with this, most of whom have some experience with toxic women. I’ve seen too many men learn Game or adopt an abundance frame, but still cling to the hope that they can fulfill a Blue Pill ideal with their Red Pill awareness. Women like the one you’re involved with will believe your Alpha frame, but when you shift or backslide into Blue Pill idealism they’re either disgusted with a man, or they see him as potential prey – and often are oblivious to their own interpretations of why they do.
I’d like to open up the commentary here for men to relate their experiences of dealing with BPD women and/or offer something for Softek. I realize there are a lot of well-meaning guys who think that BPD is overestimated in the ‘sphere, and while I can appreciate that, I think it speaks volumes that women can so regularly be confused with the signs of BPD today as to make that estimate. For my outline have a read of Borderline Personality Disorder first.
[…] Two Guitars […]
I personally think every man who finally swallows the red pill should fully embrace MGTOW for at least a year. You need to reach a stable state before trying to figure out how women enter into the picture again.
[…] Two Guitars […]
AWESOME post Rollo! Right on target. I have experienced those type of women, but thankfully they were short-lived.. ala 9 1/2 weeks.
It’s funny you mention women in the medical profession as that has been my experience with more than a few of them (nurses). A friend of mine from Dallas called those types of women as always on the lookout for the BBD (Bigger Better Deal). Very true.
Again, great post Rollo. Really appreciated hearing your story. I hope Softek continues his awakening.
ps: and check out Reverb.com for guitars. Just sayin..
My mom is BPD (and so is her mom) and to stop abuse of your children don’t get a BPD woman pregnant, and the best way is don’t stick your dick in crazy.
As young as I can remember I knew that my mother did not love me and I could not trust her. To this day she is toxic to every relationship, and almost everyone minimizes time with her. It’s sad and tragic, but if you attempt to save a BPD they will just pull you down so you both drown in their inflicted misery.
What nightmare stories. I realize now that I dodged a bullet in college with what I know now was a BPD wreck of a woman.
My ex-best friend was BPD. I’m sure it’s not the same level of damage as being in a romantic relationship with one, but she still almost ruined my life. I actually used to refer to her as my abusive boyfriend, because that’s how she acted. She would talk about how she wanted to slap me, she would belittle me in front of other people, she would harshly correct and criticize me but I wasn’t allowed to even raise my voice to her. And that fit really well with my pattern of enjoying being abused. Beyond that, her crazy fed me.… Read more »
Mine was a beautiful Latina with two kids. She came from a traditional family with strong religious ties and she was attending med school. I thought I had hit gold..sigh. I was so plugged in I’m honestly embarrassed to think about it. So moved her “ready made” family into my house and ignored all the red flags. Suffice to say she still had her kids dad hanging around acting crazy threatening me and saying they would be back together someday. Then she cheated and I stayed. We got married…ugh She started acting unstable, talking, obsessing over knives and butchery. She… Read more »
@ Rollo … damn. I feel some kind of way man. Reading your piece got me thinking of my nightmare oneitis. I’m thinking ” Well, I will dox another part of my life to illustrate my story with pictures “. So I look up my version of BPD chick on mugshot.com because she’s been a fixture there forever, but I don’t know man… reading your story and then seeing my ex’s disgusting mugshot ( 35 years of drug abuse and prostitution ) has placed a fucking tennis ball in my throat. I don’t think of her often, and when I… Read more »
“If there’s a bright side, it was that the bit I’m about to relate to you was the catalyst in my turning my life around to be a ‘lesser Alpha’ in a permanent way.”….. I am “beta”. I recognize the negative consequences of being “beta”. I also recognize the “alpha” freedom from those negative consequences experienced by “alpha” men. So I desire “alpha” traits. The problem is this… I seek to be “alpha” ONLY to avoid the negative consequences of being “beta”. I do not seek “alpha” for the sake of being “alpha” itself but only to avoid the negative… Read more »
It’s uncanny and almost inhumane how they feed off the pain and agony they cause you. The only response you will get is one completely lacking empathy or remorse and often times blameshifting to place her attacks as a result of something you did or didn’t do. As I begged and pleaded, talked, and tried every method I could to “help” her understand what she was doing was hurting me I failed at the time to realize she already knew! She almost seemed to draw some sort of energy from the misery she was causing me. The day I snapped… Read more »
@ Softek I’m feeling good about the fact that a guy like Softek actually has the manosphere to help his predicament. He’s certainly a better man than he was over a year ago. (I have to imagine this is about the anniversary of meeting his current girl?). And he knows what he has to do. Not get sucked too deep down in a whole and not create an accidental pregnancy. I got with a BPD chick once in 1984 round about the time the diagnosis hit the DSM manual. I got lucky though, she was only a HB6, she broke… Read more »
I found myself pacing up and down the driveway one afternoon, a pain in my chest, and suddenly caught myself thinking “She’s going to be home from work soon, I should go inside and put away the knives.” That’s when the light bulb went off in my head that I wasn’t simply in a bad situation, but that I was in an untenably bad situation. And even that wasn’t enough to get me out. I won’t detail the traumatic events that broke me free, but during it I found myself home alone, knowing that she wouldn’t be home for hours,… Read more »
I think a big problem is sex is a drug and many younger men do not have much sexual experience, putting women on a pedestal. They marry the first one who love bombs them and gives them regular access to sex, they live in dread of losing that access because it’s all they know. When the woman strays, these guys act like drug addicts fearing a loss of supply, because they lack the confidence of being able to get another. About the best cure for a BDP oneitis is to go stone cold no contact and watch what they do… Read more »
In regard to toxic family members I highly recommend listening to Dr. Laura Schlessinger. Even as a redpill, and keeping in mind she still will back her gender, she has great advice for cutting through the toxicity and the bullshit. She is on Sirus/XM on Stars channel. The best money I’ve spent in the last couple years is purchasing her podcasts.
She does give actionable advice and is 100% behind Law #10.
She does advocate for women being feminine, supportive and nice to men.
There you are, Dude. We didn’t forget you. We’ve been waiting for you to check in, hoping you were doing OK.
Hang in. It’s going to take some time for the ghosts to fade, but they do.
Great post! I’ve related my experiences many times. I’ll sum it up in the patterns to look for: 1) My crazy ex had a host of Cluster B/BPD behaviours: tattoo of another guy’s name on her ass she refused to get removed…a dodgy romantic history, plastic surgery on her tits that she was always proud to tell me about…she worshipped me after I banged her: calling me/texting 20 times a day for small things: just to ping text me, ask me about stuff…she was a pro at generating “content”…photos, etc etc. sexualizing. 2) Then things started to go weird…I came… Read more »
Yes….Oneitis is for women…not men!
Here is a good read on the wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20160504161158/https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3kw43o/female_duties_vs_male_duties_in_committed/ And another from married red pill reddit. Read the response from jacktenofhearts. For married men (did all the married men except Blax and Rollo leave the comments section, wtf?): https://www.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4fe7pk/how_to_handle_a_wife_that_is_always_sick_andor/ Also, I just spent two links, but here is an excerpt from Shark who wrote The Black Flag book. In regard to relationship game, an excerpt from an old post of his: (3) Women will be women: They are fickle, absent-minded, emotional, hypergamous, and estrogen fueled; live with it. They say that players and Alphas are unjust for their view… Read more »
Please tell me they weren’t Taylor guitars. 😑
If you read up on the adrenochrome explanation of schizophrenia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenochrome , its starts to make sense that things like narcissism and borderline(note that schizophrenics are narcissists) are likely just reactions to higher and higher levels of stress with schizo being the very end. I suspect its beneficial because under stress, such as hunting for game, there are mental modifications that give better performance(empathy for example is not beneficial when you have to kill an animal) under extreme stress you likely need maximal creativity to get out of the situation that is causing so much stress. Also note that generally… Read more »
So maybe we can expound on relationship game one of these days. (I’ve mentioned before that Rollo’s sidebar on Categories: Relationship Game is a good read if you click on it and go way back). I’ve read a shit ton of books and one of the best recently was Dean Delis’ “The Passion Trap” Here I’m speaking of non-BPD relationships, but with the flair that it is actually a problem if the girl has one-itis for the guy (you know when he is 90/10 too good at game). It happens and that’s actually a problem. Whereas we all know the… Read more »
I am old enough to remember Phil Hartmann. A great comedian and actor who was killed by his BPD wife.
Also remember Kurt Cobain, who I also believe was killed, directly or indirectly, by his BPD wife.
Both are hot. Both were fatal. I miss Kurt and Phil, they never got a chance to do everything they could because these women stole something that did not belong to them. A man’s life.
@softek, Every woman is different, just like a fish. You caught this one, you can toss her back in the lake and catch another.
Wow, look at the eyes of both women in Via Vitae’s post above. The crazy is just screaming to be let loose, although to the man it probably looks like she is there and focused in the moment and so ‘in’ to him.
I have never felt compelled to comment here before. I read both books (which were both excellent and jesus as a guy hitting my late 30’s I see a ton of Alpha Widows. I never understood it until I read your work. It just furthered my resolve to never date anyone in that age range. ) This post however resonated with me deeply. I am pretty sure that my mother has BPD. It has wrecked havoc on my families life and it did damage which is most likely unable to be repaired to my father and my sister. Anyone reading… Read more »
Another fine tail tale/story of BPD: https://therationalmale.com/2016/01/18/a-teachable-moment/comment-page-5/#comment-136967 “I should have bailed sooner. You guys who haven’t studied a bit about personality disorders, especially BPD/NPD/HPD should do so. I knew shit about these things before it became my personal hell. Through my ignorance, I’ve endured a level of mental torture that I never would have imagined. Learn the characteristics of these disorders, and if you see them, GTFO. Not doing so can cost you your life. The time my wife physically assaulted me, in the state she was in, I have zero doubt that if a knife had been handy, she… Read more »
I had a relationshit with a BPD woman. A sociopathic person. Paul Elam’s youtube channel with Dr. Paulmatier helped me re-align to reality. I now consider this rotten experience as a blessing in disguise because, well, I arrived here in Rollo’s blog.
Speaking of guitars, I had to sell an ESP electric guitar worth $4000 to help her financially. In hindsight, I believe she secretly got off damaging me both psychologically and financially.
Professional opinion: Emotionally unstable personality disorder – borderline type: These people suffer from an inability to relate and connect with people at an emotional level. Theories behind why that is the case have suggested that this is probably due to a disturbed childhood that has not allowed them to develop the emotional bonds with their families that would enable them to relate to others. This in turn creates a disturbed sense of identity and for childish / manipulative behaviour in adulthood. This frequently causes these patients to feel empty, that life is not worth living, to form unstable relationships –… Read more »
“Any sense of abandonment, any coldness from your part will probably result in self-harm, cheating or manipulative behaviours.”
And so you are likely to “fix” their fear of abandonment by “loving them more.”
And down the martyr hole you go.
Rollo thank you for sharing your story with us. It is a combination of fright and sadness to me when I realized how detrimental a BP frame is to a Man with a little RP guy deep down inside wishing he knew how to get out. Thanks to TRP I have embodied many characteristics of a True Red Pill Man, and this post reminded me again of how quickly everything I have achieved over the last few years can come crashing down with the relapse into the fantasy Blue Pill ideal of love and relationships and whatever the fuck else.… Read more »
“Women like the one you’re involved with will believe your Alpha frame, but when you shift or backslide into Blue Pill idealism they’re either disgusted with a man, or they see him as potential prey.”
She ran into me an the metro and i had a serious relationship with her. I didn’t understand how to stop it. To tired to type all the details but she got close to my heart and i wasn’t able to let her go. That trauma brought me here.
Softek your growth to yourself is essential.
Sometime’s i get on myself for making the same mistakes. But i found this test not sure how it could help but been reading about it.
The tests are absolutely useful however, it will be difficult to perform and really… you don’t need them.
All it takes is to step back from your situation and view the actions and the motive behind them. Manipulative behaviour that can range to extreme actions in order to achieve a goal – self harm –> attention = psychopathy / BPD.
Unstable moods, feelings of hopelessness a constant attempt to blame things on yourself and unable to take any form of responsibility –> BPD
“Any sense of abandonment, any coldness from your part will probably result in self-harm, cheating or manipulative behaviours.” I have to disagree here. From my experience abandoning her and going stone cold as soon as anything from her (actions or emotions) is not how I like it works very well. She suffers at first, which is mostly an attempt to let you participate in that suffering and resulting stress, but if you stay stone cold and distance yourself as far as needed to avoid the emotional stress, she will come back and love you more. I’m still with my Dr.… Read more »
Good point on responsibility. I keep teaching myself that with all my actions.
Had this tune in my head all day the original video has many points of disfunction mostly with alcohol
Being with responsible people is the red pill to me. It’s own wrong everything you DO.
All the great things and all the negative things. It’s learning to be alone with all you are.
A few examples of BPD behavior from my crazy ex: Had a tattoo of another guy’s name on her ass. When I asked why she hadn’t gotten it removed, she said “I will when I get married.” BPD fantasy thinking. They hold on to things because they hate losing control. Chased me like I was the Beatles, then broke up: 2 days before my birthday and 2 days before a massive event that I was consumed with and which she had helped plan. They start quick and they run away quick. She tried to manipulate her way into living with… Read more »
I chose a dangerous woman intentionally. It has been 42 years of fun (hell). The 4 kids are worth it. What has been working lately is – “did you notice that woman looking me over?” – “did you notice those women looking me over?” – “Is that making you hot for me?” (Well it does make her hot. A good nose is all you need to be sure of that. The pussy smell is strong in that one.) You can – to a certain extent – overcome bad programming in her by resorting to the older circuits. I should add… Read more »
And my response to the usual “I’ll get another guy.” “I’ll get a divorce.” etc. is always “Go ahead. You can be replaced.” Also “Good luck finding a better guy.” Well she looked plenty. She never found a guy she wanted more than me. She gave up looking. I still remind her that she has never won in a confrontation with me. The best she has done is a tie. As time has passed she has become more submissive. And being submissive to me is the only thing that makes her (relationship) happy. I also learned to never give her… Read more »
I am very skeptical as to the various DSM categories; they all seem to be pretty much the same, the range of types of behaviour within any category seem to have no connection with each other and categories are either added and removed depending in the DSM on what is or is not fashionable. We all at times have exhibited poor or emotional behaviour; women tend to exhibit what we recognise as female characteristic behaviour. Saying of an ex-gf that she is BPD is surely a little like saying ‘Witch’ and an indication that one did not get ones way.… Read more »
lh May 24th, 2016 at 11:56 pm
When the situation becomes very difficult you can do more than go STONE COLD. Stop talking to her. Not a word. Not a sound. That is probably the most terrifying thing you can do to a woman who wants you.
Early on I might have to do that for a week or two. Now the most she can stand is 3 days. And it happens much less often.
Opus May 25th, 2016 at 1:22 am
What I’m getting from this thread is that AWALT – to varying degrees.
nikochoski May 24th, 2016 at 10:18 pm Sounds just like my LTR. What has made it last? She wanted me. Badly. She also had a few things I was interested in. A smokin’ body. And a very high IQ. The kids (4) are all very beautiful and very bright. My daughter can do thermodynamics as well as I can. And thermo is one of the most difficult subjects in physics. It washed out 1/2 of my Naval Nuke class. I was tops in the class. And the daughter’s looks? At least a 9.5. 6′ tall. She models. The boys are… Read more »
I don’t think it is over-diagnosed in the manosphere because it is just taking a lot of traits to the extreme. There is a psychological disease state and then there are traits (like real schizophrenia and schizo-affective traits). I’ve spent *ALOT* of time studying the cluster B disorders over the past year or so. One thing to realize IMO is there is no universally agreed set point where you cross into “personality disorder” vs. exhibiting a number of the traits of said personality disorder. It really is a subjective judgement call that could vary from one psychiatrist to the next.… Read more »
Can someone please differentiate the difference between NPD / BPD and normal solipsism and hypergamy? They seem to bleed into each other. Is it simply a matter of degree?
What I’m getting from this thread is that AWALT – to varying degrees. I think that would be the wrong takeaway. Yes, women are women, and to some extent certain behavioral traits and communication are AWALT, but being BDP is a whole another ballgame. I think it is flat out wrong to say all women are BPD to some degree or another. It really devalues the meaning of BDP, similarly to how the word narcissistic is misused and conflated. Their is the common every day man vernacular, and then there is the more highly specific medically diagnostic use of the… Read more »
@Rollo: thanks for sharing. Hugh’s story is devastating, but the story of your album and guitars really resonated with me. You wouldn’t need that personal experience to be anti-LDR but I imagine it contributes. For reference: https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/20/letting-go-of-invisible-friend/ This is not me pulling the infamous “not in my case” defense even though I fortunately I’m not with a BPD and also closer than 800 miles away (under 150 miles right now). I need to figure out how to move forward from my own LDR status. I’m stuck on my “Mission” which is career related and limits my financial freedom such that… Read more »
Can someone please differentiate the difference between NPD / BPD and normal solipsism and hypergamy? They seem to bleed into each other. Is it simply a matter of degree? I think these 4 items are mostly unrelated. When I think of solipsism or extreme solipsism it is characterized by an almost complete lack of intellectually understanding that “it isn’t all about you”. The perfect example here online the Internet is when you make a point or statement, and a woman responds as if you were addressing her personally in her response. You rarely if ever see men do this. What… Read more »
Oh, and BTW, Looks Matter. Just playin, Rollo 🙂 Hopefully, this comment thread can stay on topic.
When I was about 10 years into my LTR certain events showed me that I was only attracted to “crazy women” (I was hanging with a group that had lesbians over represented even for that “place”) . It made me decide to do the best I could with the LTR. Funny enough more than one lesbian has been inordinately attracted to me. I was with the LTR at a taco joint (cool it with the jokes – lol – and for more jokes it was El Taco Loco) and a lesbian came up to us and told me she was… Read more »
I have a BPD mother and felt the brunt of her “affections” until about 21y of age when I manged to move out of the house and on my own It took me several years to pick up the pieces and give some purpose to my life… I had always felt there was something wrong with how she behaved with me and I remember feeling envious of other kids my age with normal, supporting parents. Even though I made immense efforts one every front, I was never good enough for her expectations and standards, not in school (even though I… Read more »
I’ve personally had a messed up brain (bipolar, among others), I now no longer do. This advice is off the beaten path, but it’s from someone who intimately knows the territory, and heck, it might help. 1) Most mental shit is not solvable using Psychologists/Psychiatric care. Treatable != solvable. Doesn’t work. The only ones they ‘cure’, are people who would pull themselves out anyway. 2) Medication slows the downward spiral. It doesn’t fix anything permanently. As bad as it is now, it will become again. Worse even. That’s a promise. (Also, did I mention medication side effects?) 3) Given 1+2… Read more »
Don’t be sore about the guitars Rollo – you had to buy that lesson to be the guy you are now. I can’t imagine that you think you’d be better off if you’d kept them but were still living in ignorance.
In a way you’re lucky – if you hadn’t had to sell something precious she couldn’t have cut you so deep and you might not have learned anything.
Rollo, As a guitarist myself of long standing I understand the regret you must feel at losing those two guitars in such circumstances. But it is exactly those really harsh lessons that stick with us as you have proven. The two guitars served you well for they helped to snap you out of your funk. I myself lost a guitar in very similar fashion. I think that BPD women instinctively home in on that which will cause us the most pain. But in the end that is what saves us from ourselves. The fact that they go too far. For… Read more »
You have been married to a BPD woman for 42 years?
Did I read that correctly?
I’ll also say that guys should be aware of Histrionic Personality Disorder (HPD) as well which is predominantly a female PD. They are much less dangerous than BPDs, but very capable of making your life very unpleasant and frustrating. Rollo, I suspect a blogger you and I are aware of is either full blown HPD or very high on the HPD spectrum. Yes, I have known an HPD fairly well several years ago — emotional vampire, I think, is the best way to describe it. It’s not as insane as BPD, but it’s nothing you want in your life. As… Read more »
Kang May 25th, 2016 at 4:08 am
BPD? I’m not sure. PTSD definitely. We have been together 42 years. Married for 33. I will say some of the BPD symptoms are definitely there. From what I can tell all that is missing is the proclivity to violence. I was never afraid of her. But that could just be me. i.e. my lack of fear did not encourage the resort to violence.
@nikochoski : “Theories behind why that is the case have suggested that this is probably due to a disturbed childhood that has not allowed them to develop the emotional bonds with their families that would enable them to relate to others.” This was absolutely the case with my friend. She had one of the most shocking, heartbreaking stories of developmental trauma I’ve ever heard. Abandoned by her mother at a young age, into the foster care system, adopted, unadopted, readopted.. she never had an attachment, let alone a secure attachment. She couldn’t trust anyone. She would tell me that she… Read more »
I think I’m in a similar situation, though I don’t know the most recent details of softeks story. He did mention on a post about my situation that his was similar. I haven’t been posting the details to mine as they unfold but perhaps I should do it more. Here’s where I am now. The ex I dumped last year still has a boyfriend, we still fuck every now and then, and she is still trying to get pregnant. Few months back she dumped boyfriend (who was unwilling to knock her up either), sent me a picture of her in… Read more »
BPD post…ya know Rollo, that’s what brought me to the RP about 5 years ago. As with other types of disorders, dissociative or some variation of affective, there’s a strong correlation between childhood trauma and disorders, especially with more serious of psychiatric disorders. However, that’s not an open and shut case supported by tons of research. This post reads like crib notes for the newbs from the been-there-done-that’s, that offer’s up salient advice to not only spot the ‘slut tells’ and the precursors that are usually packaged with the BPD women, but the early signs of neurotic and accompanying behavior.… Read more »
Standing back and reading this, and knowing my own experience with BPD chick(s), I am getting to the feeling that they all (AWALT) have it on a sliding scale, full blown BPD is just one end of the spectrum. In some part of their hearts, their soul, their being they need the emotional spikes that @Ya Really always speaks of and the BPD type of behaviour brings them those spikes that they need to prop up and propel their reality. By extension think if what Illimitable Man writes about how female solipsism and by extension the female emotional state “Is… Read more »
@CamaroWoes – Whew, glad to hear you are alive buddy. When you went quiet I wondered if she’d actually whacked you. You sound better, keep on keeping on.
“I personally think every man who finally swallows the red pill should fully embrace MGTOW for at least a year. You need to reach a stable state before trying to figure out how women enter into the picture again.”
I believe that’s called ‘Monk Mode’, but yeah, I totally agree.
In the PUA community we don’t really care much about the nuances between like BPD and ClusterB and general crazy-bitch behavior lol It’s just like everything falls under that umbrella of ClusterB and we want the guy to get the fuck out ASAP. ’cause what a lot of guys like Softek will do is they’ll use the nuances to stay in it. “Well, you guys said she’s BPD but I don’t think she’s ACTUALLY that…I mean sure she’s threatening suicide but she doesn’t fit this ENTIRE list of BPD traits and she baked me a muffin that one time, so… Read more »
This book on divorcing an NPD / BPD personality was the beginning of my red-pill journey. I recommend it for anyone in this situation. https://www.amazon.com/Splitting-Protecting-Borderline-Narcissistic-Personality-ebook/dp/B0056JX46W?ie=UTF8&keywords=splitting&qid=1464187407&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1 That being said, I found this blog and others and learned about hypergamy and solipsism. I began to understand that my spouse wasn’t as pathological as i originally thought. I have come to believe that this is a spectrum of behavior and the reason women are less often diagnosed is because their normal behavior is sometimes indistinguishable from disordered behavior. For what ever reason, these instincts are completely let off their leash in some women… Read more »
@M Simon May 25th, 2016 at 4:56 am Do you think you have a good bit of psychopathy in you. And that makes you guys complementary in your natures? If you have the feminine BPD on one side, you have the male psychopath on the other end of the pole. And I mean this question in a good way with you being good at being a masculine male. To what what extent do you think it is good if present. This quote is from a new blog and a new article “Embrace Your Inner Psychopath”: “Want to know what makes… Read more »
@SJF “In regard to toxic family members I highly recommend listening to Dr. Laura Schlessinger” I like Dr. Laura but if one is a victim of physical and mental child abuse you are going to need a lot of in-person therapy. Having done this, I don’t forgive my mother, as forgive is too strong a word, but I accept her as she is, and know what to expect. Even though my mom and her mom were BPD, I believed the key thing with children was nurture, not heredity. I picked a wife who is a natural with children. The strange… Read more »
@Softek and everyone else – There is one sure way to cure Oneitis. And that sure way is to FUCK OTHER WOMEN. Repeat: The cure for Oneitis is to FUCK OTHER WOMEN. Should I repeat it again, Softie? Get your fucking dick out and stick it in another woman. Now. Today if possible. Your or we can write 10,000 word comments and none of it will work as well as sticking your dick into another woman. Also consider that spinning plates will teach you about the Red Pill like nothing else, and women as they demonstrate that they really don’t… Read more »
Reading the one star reviews of that book is . . . interesting.
@Softek and everyone else – There is one sure way to cure Oneitis. And that sure way is to FUCK OTHER WOMEN.
I’ve said before Softek that you need to fuck at least two other women, and it doesn’t matter if you “cheat” or break some rules being imposed on you, just do it. FUCK OTHER WOMEN
With some current topics, caught my eye that the list of symptoms of BPD from that link had frequent changes of sexual orientation and gender identity.
@Redlight – Thanks for the backup, brother. What I’m trying to make clear is that the very act of fucking other women will change one’s mindset. Not analysis. Not thinking. Just the awesome feeling of your dick slipping into another woman’s snatch. Her moaning, her desire, your dominance – her not caring that you are “cheating” if she knows you have other women, it’s like a giant mindwipe of the other woman. By the time you bust your nut, you are like “Why am I letting that other crazy bitch rent space in my head and fuck up my life?”… Read more »
I haven’t read the reviews in a long time. I may have to do that again. Are the one stars from obvious BPD personalities, or actual valid criticisms? I found the book very helpful at the time. If my reading list wasn’t already 2 feet thick, I’d go back and read it again to see if I still have the same opinion.
My surmise is the married men are still here, I’m one. I think a lot of us could tell similar BPD escape tales, I sure can, but most likely we feel we’re just part of the echo chamber. All we are doing is confirming what you other guys went through. My years-ago story, shorn of all the butthurt, was I’d met this then-LTR at a gig, playing out. So she knew that music was one thing I did that was important to me. We started talking about doing the ring thing. But when enthusing about another upcoming gig, she set… Read more »
LeeLee – May 25th, 2016 at 5:46 am That is quite close to the story of my LTR. But unlike you I prayed for a “hard case”. Progress has been terrible slow. But there has been progress. After 42 years she is trusting me (a little) and following instructions (some). She was always calmest when I had a girlfriend. So now that the kids have grown (the youngest is 25) I’m looking for a GF. The LTR approves because it helps her bond. And when she bonds she feels secure. The essence of it? It is a spiritual problem for… Read more »
@kfg @scribblerg Thank’s guys i am making progress but it is slow and there was for many months a lot of back and forth going on between me and her. Recently things have settled down a little and what i mean by that is her attempts at contacting me have gone down to maybe once or twice a week. It is still very hard for me sometimes to resist responding to her and she does at times show up at my house which worries me. She stills claims she is never going to let me go and sarcastically tells me… Read more »
@softek i mean, everyone’s telling you what to do and i’m sure you can understand logically….but it’s hard to muster the emotional willpower. a lot of game tactics we use come from women….i mean, men are more looks-oriented but a woman who knows what she’s doing can really kick the shit out of your psyche. like, i literally would leave work and take stupid long lunch breaks just to go fuck this chick (ya just blew it off…)….i mean talk about being under a spell. this chick was HOT, in her late 20’s, a divorced mom, and in ‘marketing.’ (these… Read more »
and like….it’s one of these things where…
first of all, in my FEELZ i grok her as hot but i mean…she was like a 6.5-7.
second of all, if i told some of the chicks i’ve been with now about her and all the drama surrounding her, it’d be a huge DLV because they’d be like ‘huh?’
like i even sort of laugh about it and facepalm at how ridiculous it is
right now you don’t know how much better it can and will get.
in a few years, you’ll look back at all this shit and just…
SJF May 25th, 2016 at 7:56 am I have more than a little “bad psychopath” in me. I spent 3 years (give or take) in an Outlaw MC gang. I was getting revenge on the world for my lousy (physical violence starting at age 5) upbringing. I didn’t like where that was taking me (a trail of blackness so pronounced that idle acquaintances remarked on it) so I fixed it. I’m very disciplined when I set myself a goal. The clearance of that crap made me want to help another “hard case”. What I got out of that MC experience… Read more »
“@ITTO: Reading the one star reviews of that book is . . . interesting.” What is interesting is that the one star reviews are right that BPD is a mental illness. Softek’s girl is not right in the head. She has what we have diagnosed as a mental illness. And Softek can’t fix that by being a better man or being better at game. She was cast in her die a long time ago. Where they are wrong is in the fact that a man should show unconditional love for her because she “has a disease analogous to having cancer”.… Read more »
@Camaro – It’s easy why you couldn’t let go – you didn’t want to have a second marriage fail due to your ego. It’s pride, buddy. My ex did the same thing, she told me she stayed in her second marriage for 5 years longer than she should have simply because she didn’t want to give me the satisfaction of seeing her fail. Lol – while I was banging hot 20somethings, LMFAO. Watch out for the therapists, they thrive on “healing” etc but in the end, you have to just decide to let all this shit go and become a… Read more »
Scribbler is right with everything he says. Though I’ll add in case of a deep oneitis it may take some time. The deeper you got involved, the more other experiences you’ll need.
But that quote is the most important part. Keep your Mental Point of Origin with you. She doesn’t matter, only you matter and you should be focused on you.
I’ve stopped giving Softek advice, because he won’t take it. The payoff for him IS this ” continue to cower in dependency and fear and obsess about her and your relationship.”. There is no payoff in escape, only fear.
Until he can go “all in” on himself, nothing else will ever matter…
Even his screen name is soft… I wish you well Softek. You control your destiny.
‘Embrace your inner pervert and dog. Step into your predatory sexual nature (notice that if my use of the word predatory makes you nervous, if it does I suggest you clean the sand out of your pussy). Own your lust and revel in it. Women will love you for it for the most part, and those who don’t – who gives a shit?’
Is being a man pathological? Even at our “worst”, we seem to hold ourselves to some basic standard when dealing with women. I know Scrib would say that the easiest way to cure oneitis is to fuck other women. That is true. But to a point. Why? Because there was a time I inadvertently ran into a woman that I had fucked before whilst hauling another one that I was on my way to fuck shortly. It felt awkward. Almost as if something inside me was apologizing to her for seeing me going out with someone new. I have posted… Read more »
@cheupez: it can be dealt with for good. The programming that has been ingrained in our firmware cannot be underestimated. By default we should be fucking, and having children with (if your an African or polygynist like me) multiple* fit women. We are shamed for this…Rollo has explained why women and by extension the FI pushes this shaming agenda but why most men feel ‘awkward’ being, and/or fucking more than one woman… As an aside, was watching “A Dangerous Method” and was finding interesting how polygyny and concubine were accepted in pre-WWII Europe… Anyway, as illimitablemen says: “reconstruct our understanding… Read more »
Also a woman won’t intentionally get pregnant in an effort to remove your wallet through your asshole because she has cancer. Those reviews are obviously written by the afflicted.
cheupez May 25th, 2016 at 10:07 am When younger I often introduced the LTR to my priors. It never felt awkward. Why? I always parted with a girl on mutually acceptable terms. The breakups were never so stormy that we couldn’t be friends. The only girl I ever had one-itis for was the first. And a drunken walk home in the middle of a Chicago winter cured that. She also taught me the rudiments of Game (in ’62) so I was very very lucky. Me and the LTR? She was always a project. So I was mostly emotionally uninvolved. I… Read more »
I found this helpful, to let go of a BPD that still wanted to stay in contact with me. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-love-and-war/201405/the-10-worst-reasons-stay-friends-your-ex
What do you think? It was written by a woman!
“I’ve stopped giving Softek advice, because he won’t take it. The payoff for him IS this ” continue to cower in dependency and fear and obsess about her and your relationship.”. There is no payoff in escape, only fear. Until he can go “all in” on himself, nothing else will ever matter… At least there are other guys listening to the tough love…… This is a repeat posting of an essay of a blogger on Rollo’s sidebar. The Man the Myth. I’ve had trouble linking to it before, so I’m C&Ping the whole essay. We love you, man Softek, but… Read more »
@SJF – Indeed, one can grow from any experience if you are committed to learning. I realized that I’d become a man that I didn’t respect. I’d become what I loathed, without realizing it. The frustration of being Blue Pill wore me down and made me cynical and hopeless. After a while, there seemed no point in trying to be a “good man” anymore as I was so focused on externals. Now it’s different but by no means perfect. I’m slowly becoming my own mental point of origin and truly acting in my own self-interest versus out of ego and… Read more »
@ all Have only just started reading here, can’t wait to comment more later after getting through everything. @ Rollo Thank you very much for the dedicated post here. The help I’ve gotten here has been tremendous. And it’s a testament to the stark reality that, whether you’re with a girl with BPD, or a perceived “Unicorn,” what it all boils down to is what you want. Are you aware of what you want? Do you know what direction you want your life to go in? You can’t bring women, or even just one woman, along with you if you… Read more »
I’ve been a long time lurker, reading, digesting and slowly making changes to my mindset and life. I’ve never commented, but this post struck a deep cord with me regarding a previous marriage. Looking back – the red flags were so obvious, but like most men who get tangled up with a BPD woman, you can’t spot them and I certainly couldn’t and didn’t. In the last 2 years, since the marriage ended – I’ve read voraciously on BPD and HPD and I can certainly say that my ex-wife ticked all 9 of the criteria in the DSM and I… Read more »
The guitars. Shit, that hurts. It’s posts and comments like this that save a man’s life in the year 2016. Great stuff. All the best to Softek. I hope you can find your way out of it man! When I think back of the most brutal of oneitis I’ve lived through which brought me to the edge of alcoholism and severe depression, I realize with a chill how lucky I was that there was _no_ BPD involved. It would have pushed me over the edge, easily. @ Rollo: regarding your past, I have been reading your post Fidelity (https://therationalmale.com/2012/02/28/fidelity/) where… Read more »
I don’t think it matters if you are blue pill or red pill. With a little training these types of women are easily identifiable, after a date or two.
@ALL (Sorry for the following tangent. We already did the back and forth last thread. I’m not trying to, nor will debate what I say in the last paragraph. I’m merely trying to balance discussion of relationship game as it relates to this original post. Because it is important to the original post. So it is actually not a tangent) @BluepillProfessor Comment on thread about Rollo’s original post at Married Red Pill: “This one has a LOT of relevance to MRP because we see this all the time and is one reason I put learning PUA after all that self… Read more »
I think being married and monogamous is defacto Blue Pill. Just sayin’…Let’s see if we can take this thread down a different rathole! I still maintain that Rollo is glazing up pour girls (and others) like donuts, but of course he can’t say that here. He has denied it when I’ve suggested it in the past, as he should. Maybe his wife brings other women to bed, and of course he won’t say that here either. Is polygamy Red Pill, or is it actually Blue Pill on steroids? Is it just women acting on beta bucks? Having plates is Red… Read more »
I still maintain that Rollo is glazing up pour girls (and others) like donuts, but of course he can’t say that here. He has denied …
That’s why it’s fun to troll him, because he can’t go “look I’m lifting so I can bang a new pour girl every week”, he can only say lifting and guitars helps dread, isn’t married red pill tranquil
Want to thank you Rollo and othera. Am in a very Beta stance and learning, have reached the endpoint dealing with a bipolar wife, and have reached the divorce point and am struggling with that last push from being too Beta. I know what has to happen and just need to Red Pill up and take that final step. Your blog and books have been very helpful in changing my mindset and getting me away from creating the noose… hopefully I can get to a point where I can explain my narrative so others can learn from it… once I… Read more »
Just get yourself a second one, maybe a third and then choose, upgrade. It is easier to get women if you have already one, because preselection. Getting top women may be a lot like a career. You start somewhere low and work yourself up and each step is the proof you need for the next. Just keep going.
You are currently at your SMV low regarding age. It will get only easier from there on, especially your inner game.
@Emilyy – How many guys are you fucking currently?
LOL! How many married guys?
Someone heard “cheating” and her clit twitched…