Two Guitars


Recently, I’ve been very busy with more than a few business projects. ‘Success Coaches’ always tell you to develop passive forms of income in addition to whatever it is you consider your vocation, but I have an odd habit of turning my past “vocations” into passive forms of income as I move on to my next project.

Then I’ve had the audiobook of The Rational Male as a front-burner project for my leisure time along with doing re-edits of the first printed book (new, better-edited, bigger font edition coming soon) and then there’s the first draft of the third book I’m picking away at.

In between all of that I’ve been doing my best to stay on top of the comment threads for the essays I’m writing. Among these, for the past 6 or 7 months has been the saga of a commenter who goes by Softek. While I haven’t been able to keep abreast of all his comments and the exceptional advice of fellow Rational readers, I’m going to take a moment now to address his situation because it serves as an example, and perhaps a warning, to Red Pill aware men who come into a new awakened understanding of intergender dynamics and fall prey to some of the pitfalls inherent in unplugging themselves from their prior illusions.

I’ve followed Softek’s unplugging and his increased confidence from a thoroughly Blue Pill conditioned guy to something approaching Alpha confidence. Whether this is beginning to stick and becoming an internalized part of who Softek is as a man, I’ll let him say, but recently he’s been dealing with some of the fallout that comes from being caught up in what I went through in Dream Girls and Children with Dynamite.

Another very common occurrence is the “reformed” AFC who makes progress toward becoming more Game savvy, and as a result gets his “dream girl”, only to lose her after reverting back into an AFC frame once he’s in an LTR with her. I’m not a big Ross Jefferies fan, but he did say something very profound once, he said “teaching PUA skills to these chumps is like giving dynamite to children.” This is probably truer than he realized, because the potential for disaster is much higher. Most guys want that silver bullet, the magic formula that will get them the girl, but it does nothing to prepare them for the idyllic LTR their beta nature has fantasized about for so very long. They don’t become Men, they become children with dynamite. So are we really surprised when the guy who finally gets his Dream Girl as a result of learning Game becomes despondent and suicidal when he loses the “best thing he’ll ever have” when she leaves him? Are we shocked when his ONEitis turns out to be a BPD girl and his life’s ambitions fall into a death-spiral because he was unprepared to deal with a post-Game LTR?

Now, I’m not suggesting that Softek is despondent or suicidal in his present position. In fact, likely not because he’s got a base of support on this blog and in the manosphere at large to coach him through it. I’ll let him outline his situation in the comment thread for this post, however, Softek’s situation of getting wrapped up in a yo-yo clingy BPD relationship reminded me of a story I’m not very proud to relate, but in the interests of other guys in a similar situation I’ll explain it.

The Price of a BPD

Towards the end of my relationship with my own BPD there came a point when I attempted to make it work with her as a long distance relationship (LDR). This was really the last nail in the coffin for us. I knew damn well she was ‘cheating’ on me while I blithely convinced myself I would eventually get her to move another state away to join me so I could continue wallowing in her neurotic psychological abuse of me.

I’m happy to say that never happened, but it came at a cost. At one point during the LDR I had to make a decision in order to find a way to drive over a state to see her college graduation. I’d already had my (correct) suspicions she was fucking a guy from one of her classes, but I wasn’t entirely sure. You’ve got to understand that as a BPD she’d already had me ‘converted’ to accept her frame as the dominant one. And as pathetic as it’ll sound, I was still her thrall and blamed myself for her neurosis even as I lived 800 miles away.

People love to cast me as some life-long Alpha, but I’ve been Beta, a natural Alpha, and during this period of my life I was approaching Omega (by Vox’s definitions). If there’s a bright side, it was that the bit I’m about to relate to you was the catalyst in my turning my life around to be a ‘lesser Alpha’ in a permanent way.

I had already been brought low. In her neurotic jealousy, she insisted that I toss out a photo album of all the times I’d been on stage in my Hollywood days and essentially destroy the memories of friends and events I had archived of that time. It was like losing part of my soul, but I did so because I thought she was right; I was convinced anything that came before her that I’d done was the source of her distempers.

You might think that was bad, but in order for me to go to her graduation – the time she intentionally had me discover her fucking this guy – I had to pay for that horrible experience by selling off two very expensive guitars. I won’t tell you the brand, but they were a 12 and a 6 string acoustic that was priceless to me. Even the guy I sold them to asked me if I was sure I wanted to part with them, he could tell I didn’t.

But I did sell them, for $800. Now they’d be worth around $4,000, but it’s not the dollar value I regret the most, it was voluntarily cutting off a limb from myself for the privilege of learning exactly how fucked up this person was. The only time I’ve ever snapped with Mrs. Tomassi was her casually suggesting I might sell off a guitar from my present collection. She knew there was something more to it and I’ve never silenced her with more seriousness.

I have one post outlining Borderline Personality Disorder and I feel like it’s all I really needed to post about it. There was a time in my life when I was completely in the dark about anything like it, so when I first discovered it in the DSM while studying psych it literally sent chills down my spine.

After this traumatic experience, I came to realize that while all the women I’d been convinced and conditioned to believe were my duty to be supportive of were banging other men and earning degrees, my life was paralyzed. Now, in hindsight, I can see that my beating myself up over being stalled in life because of my Blue Pill conditioning was misplaced. ONEitis will do that to you, but when you combine it with a BPD it takes a trauma to wake you up – either that or you swallow a bullet or put a rope around your neck.

On the BPD comment thread, there’s a sobering account of another man’s experience with a BPD woman. I’ll quote it here, but virtually every experience I’ve had men relate to me about a BPD is a frighteningly similar story.

From Hugh:

So, to start, I discovered that my ex was having an affair, revolving around a “church based canoe group”. Initially, I began questioning and blaming myself, telling her that we needed to work it out. I spoke to a professional seeking support and answers, who somehow got her in to see him.

He reported to me that he diagnosed her with Borderline Personality Disorder, and that I had some major choices to make, as she rejected his diagnosis and any thought of treatment. He advised that she would never change without help, and that what she did had little to do with me or the children – it was all about her.

I initially failed to understand, and tried to reconcile. Over the next few months she promised to try, and even started going to church.

But, little-by-little she revealed how this had begun, first with lesbian affairs with coworkers, then eventually, when I bought her a new car, but declined to take a car maintenance class with her – she slept with the mechanic giving the class. I learned of more in rapid succession, of affairs, one night stands, and worse over a 7 year period. She was in the medical field and used the cover of being on call,being in surgery, working extra for a dentist, going to medical conferences, etc, etc.(I could comment on my opinion of medical morals, but ’nuff said) I recalled an occasion when I got overwhelmingly sleepy after consuming a soft drink at a movie with the ex. I realize now that she drugged me. She also infected me twice with STDs, telling me she had a yeast infection. She put antibiotic in my food unknown to me. My children later reported to me, when asked, that whoever I was out of town, the ex was “always” gone to the hospital at night “on call”.

The gross details aren’t necessary, but the revelations shook me back to reality. (disgusting, degrading, and sick are better terms even than gross)

She began trying to convince me to sell our house and move. Now awake, I realized that she wanted her share and would dump the children on the street and force a move to a new neighborhood. I had recently pulled her off the chest of our 11 year old son when she tried to strangle him for begging her not to leave him – so I wasn’t exactly fooled by her house sale drive. I resolved that my children needed to have the support of friends and family, and not be moved out of their home and away from friends. How I would do this came to me eventually – wait long enough and she would find another prince, but couldn’t hide it easily, and would have to leave.

I had been contacted by the wife of her latest affair, a physician whom she had recommended me to for minor surgery.(Roll that around for a second). She and I had quite a conversation, during which I learned that he had “done this before with his office nurse, and she had attempted suicide when he dumped her – possibly for my wife”. I advised her to seek professional medical and legal council, but also delivered an explicit warning concerning what I would do if I ever saw her husband in public.

The next day the ex came home late from work, crying and just glaring at me (a Thursday BTW – a favorite day for medical professionals at some hospitals to play, as it offers the cover for some surgeons who “have surgery that day”.) The next day, after meeting with her surgeon friend again, she proceeded to drive her car right in front of an oncoming truck, suffering broken ribs. I rushed to the hospital, told she was being X-rayed and that I should go to the room she was assigned. I did so and in rearranging the pillows on the bed, found a hand written note from a “friend” indicating they would be by later. I didn’t stay long after she got to the room.

Well, we bought her a new truck, and about 3 weeks later, she called to inform me that she was taking our motor home on a canoe trip that afternoon, and when she returned, she was “leaving the family”. She asked our teenaged daughter to drop her off, and my daughter called me, appalled, that the canoe trip was my ex and 4 men. My daughter said she threw gravel “all over them” with her rapid departure.

She never said anything to the children, but shortly after informed me that she was leaving that afternoon. She got friends to help her move and was gone when my dad and I returned from picking up the kids at school golf team practice.

The judge at the divorce hearing classified her as having abandoned the family and offered to impose child support payments on her – which I declined, in an attempt to cut all ties.

That was 31 years ago, and we had absolutely no contact with her until Dec 24, when a scribbled note, from some tiny town in East Texas arrived, stating that she had breast cancer, and I should take “appropriate measures concerning the children”.

I can’t imagine that she thinks any of us care!

So, that’s my early life’s scary story – though I left the horror story parts out!

Be safe, there are really monsters in the world!


P S – My 2 older children are college educated,very successful professional people with families and children. I remarried a spectacular woman a few years after, the true savior of our lives, and have a third child, who is a Nurse Practitioner, and who also has 2 children.(I have advised her about morals in the medical field particularly).

Softek, the reason I’m dedicating an entire post (and hopefully an on-topic comment thread) about this is because, in my estimate, you’re in both a more precarious, yet potentially more hopeful, position than guys who’ve dealt with what you are now. My concern is that your Red Pill awareness and basic Game skills have brought you a dangerous woman. It’s the kids with dynamite dynamic I’m seeing unfold.

The good news is you have a solid community of men ready to help you with this, most of whom have some experience with toxic women. I’ve seen too many men learn Game or adopt an abundance frame, but still cling to the hope that they can fulfill a Blue Pill ideal with their Red Pill awareness. Women like the one you’re involved with will believe your Alpha frame, but when you shift or backslide into Blue Pill idealism they’re either disgusted with a man, or they see him as potential prey – and often are oblivious to their own interpretations of why they do.

I’d like to open up the commentary here for men to relate their experiences of dealing with BPD women and/or offer something for Softek. I realize there are a lot of well-meaning guys who think that BPD is overestimated in the ‘sphere, and while I can appreciate that, I think it speaks volumes that women can so regularly be confused with the signs of BPD today as to make that estimate. For my outline have a read of Borderline Personality Disorder first.


Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

670 comments on “Two Guitars


    If a guy has gone through abuse, and meets a girl who has also gone through abuse, it makes the relationship feel even more “special,” and the ONE-itis is based on deeply ingrained behavioral patterns, not just your run of the mill scarcity mentality.

    The killer here is that the relationship is attractive BECAUSE it’s abusive.

    Not WANTING a normal, healthy girl, is the problem. Seeing a girl like that and thinking it’s too BORING. Or lacking emotional depth/substance/stimulation.

    Child abuse is a good way to get guys soaked in the FI. This is probably what being a woman feels like, lol: craving the emotional ups and downs, NEEDING them, and not knowing or understanding why, and feeling like you’re at the complete mercy of it.

    YaReally, IMO, is right about guys not liking the state I’m in, and wanting me to get out of it because I remind them of how they used to be, and they don’t want to see that shit or think about that shit anymore.

    It’s not a fun place to be. It’s a very dark place to be.

    Rollo’s right about unplugging chumps from the matrix being dirty business. I hope one day I can look back on this stuff I’m writing and think the same thing I do about all my old posts on LJBF: what the fuck was wrong with me? What was I thinking? I even THINK about my fixation on a girl I was never with and wonder what in the world I was thinking, and can’t imagine ever going back to that.

    I’ve moved beyond mindsets I had that I thought I’d have FOREVER before… I can do it again. The results are repeatable.

  2. Yes, I realized what I just commented @6:09 will seem like a paradox to most observers, (INTJs are able to live by glaring contradictions that nonetheless make perfect sense to them) because of what I said in the second paragraph May 31st, 2016 at 6:18 pm. I resisted the bullshit social conventions, but followed what turned out to be the Good ones for me.

  3. “lol welcome to 2016 and a level of LITERALLY infinite abundance that the average girl has because of technology:”

    key word is average. do not waste time/energy interacting with average girls.

    “And check out what your texting competition is and why (in my opinion) texting is starting to be viewed as low-value:”

    texting for any reason other than immediate meet logistics was always low value. what it had going for it was novelty. that has worn off.

    “no matter how many times the man might reach out to her to talk, the fact that it’s through online dating just makes it all seem lazy.”

    lazy really means low value. she is average. the guys are beta as fuck. it’s basically just a diversion to fill empty time.

    “There are tons of thirsty low-value guys available at a touch now, who are letting girls get away with putting zero effort in, so when the meet a guy who has standards they’re confused at having to qualify themselves (unless the guy has demonstrated a bunch of value) and just move on to the easier option, but the easier option is another thirsty low-value guy so they get jaded with “men” while the higher-value guys they’d want are looking for girls who put effort in.”

    even if you’re a wordsmith, the best way to demonstrate value is in person. go sarge.

    I was at my parents’ house over the weekend. went through some old shit I had boxed up as they were going through stuff. couple of things happened;

    1. Wife found pictures of me with high school girlfriends. she couldn’t get enough of it. kept talking about how hot they were and how naughty I was. she was turned on. mentioned some new criteria for threesomes

    2. Found old pictures of wife and me. I was bloated and out of shape and she was SMOKING HOT. she is so hamstered up that she said:

    “you were so cute. and you fucked me so good.”

    only one of those things is true. girls are basically blind.

    do not waste time with average girls. they cannot respect a guy who gives them attention because no high value guy would waste his energy on average when he could be banging hotties.

    raise your standards to absurd levels and be rewarded. fucking isn’t boxing. you can easily punch over your weight.

    and eat your greens

  4. @YaReally

    The problem is the successful oLTR/pLTR arrangements to learn from are the ones that aren’t advertised, which is a huge part of WHY they’re successful (see my archive for “Why monogamy is broken” about the nuances of keeping social pressure off the girl in pLTRs). Even Tyler is pretty hush hush about the details of his relationship because if he spills all the beans it’ll put a bunch of social judgement on his girl which fucks things up. Once you spill the beans and social pressure is applied to the girl you end up in a Gene Simmons situation.

    what would happen on the plains of Ur?…lol

    in the absence of social conditioning… THAT’S what’s ‘possible’… the only problem is recreating THAT situ… in today’s real world of 24/7 social media connections… conflated by social conditioning/FI…

    “and the relationship dynamics that imposes”

    Lots of people with kids have solid pLTR/oLTRs, personally I’m interested in studying how they get around the relationship dynamics that having kids impose more than how to make having kids work in monogamy.

    working out a plan to bang those hot single moms?…lol…

    “To me the first question is not monogamy or not, it’s children or not.”

    The only reason I could imagine settling down into a relationship would be to have children, but even then there are enough examples of pLTR/oLTR relationships with kids that I think there’s an area that needs to be looked at, in order to give men an optimal endgame plan alternative to the traditional plan.

    kids are amazingly resilient.

    as long as you meet their basic needs, both physical and emotional (and sometimes not even physical…), they can thrive in any situ… and the key to THAT is the relationship between the parent and kid… and is based on setting… and then meeting… the kid’s EXPECTATIONS – positive, negative or neutral – and this is done by the subcomms you have with the kid… just like in pua…lol… and kids are better at sussing out congruency than a hb10+…lol

    the relationship between the parents, positive or negative or neutral, has a big influence on the relationship between the parent and kid, but it’s not determinative = WHY some girls keep their kids away from dad… bc if the kids have a great relationship with dad, that will mess up her ‘expectations’ and create cognitive dissonance for her….

    if you want proof, go to any school in the area… for any age… and you’ll find the same thing = kids in different situs, with some thriving and some not…

    the surface variables change, but the underlying dynamic stays the same… = if kids KNOW they are loved (which is just a sense of being valued in-group + consistency over time)… and KNOW that that love is NOT capricious, they can thrive (regardless of whatever shitty situ they are in)… simple as that…

    and the way that happens is that the parent (the FI says ‘mom only’, but this applies to dad, too) has to lead them to/create for them that place of safety/security… and THAT safety/security is based on their EMOTIONAL safety/security… which is created by the parent making the effort to SHOW the kid a sense of ‘belonging’ = security/safety = being a VALUED member of the group…( didn’t you guys read that evo-psych ‘shame reflex’ paper i linked?…lol… this shit is wired in…)

    LEAD them…just like pua…lol… kids ping off their surroundings/enviro for cues… just like ‘girls’…lol… (note – EVERYBODY does this, it’s just that social conditioning takes over to make it SEEM like men don’t AND that it’s not acceptable for men to ‘change their minds on a whim’…lol)… and pua just brings that awareness of pinging/reaction to the surface for the first step in learning = trying to get to ‘conscious competence’…)

    but the difference is that kids have a longer lag time, bc they are dealing with trusting their lives to you, (as opposed to having social conditioning saying that they should ‘maintain their viewpoint for social consistency’ being the reason they are slower to change…)… while girls are more about the procreative/provisioning possibilities…so, one step removed from life/death…and so, transition much faster to accept a new dynamic in situ…

    BUT i only know this shit BC of the RP…(TRM/CH/early MMSL/etc)… and pua… lol (mostly YaReally and his archives…lol)…

    so, don’t dis game as parenting advice…lol… as SJF says ‘game is fungible across ALL relationships…’

    good luck!

  5. Hey Soft way back in another thread, and one point – you said:

    “And boy does that feel difficult. Magic question: How do you know? That’s what I’m going to start working on tonight.

    How do you know you don’t deserve anything?

    There are memories that ‘prove’ to you that this belief is true. Whether it’s childhood experiences or something that happened 10 minutes ago. The goal is to start identifying what memories support this BS and start addressing them one by one, letting them go, and re-writing the programming. ”

    Man ….. that is the deep stuff right there, maybe as deep as a belief like you were born – “not worthy for this world” type of deep engram. Don’t know for sure if that is what you were talking about (you will know if it is, it’s like a particular unease because you feel like you are a mismatch for the world, like there is something intrinsically wrong with you, that you can’t change or do anything about because you were born that way, but nevertheless you can’t really identify what it is – when you try on theories about what it may be – the theories can all be eventually dismissed as BS once you think hard about it, yet the feeling remains.anyways).

    If that type of deep self-disrespect is occurring with you (except you won’t really think of it as self-disrespect because “you were born that way”), then sure as shit – what happened is you absorbed this engram from your social environment during the earliest childhood, before the time you can remember – so it is only the feeling of it that sticks with you. And you are right .,….. the very best way to rid yourself of this is to identify the dynamic from which it sprang. Review the psychological state of those around you (particularly your parents), for the time period of when you were younger than 2 years old. The key here …… the only way to get rid of this false belief is to see that you indeed were not born that way, because you can finally identify the dynamic from which it sprang.

    This could be some really innocent stuff all round too. I was stuck with this weird deep engram myself, virtually my whole life, until maybe about 2 or 3 years ago, and what I finally figured out, (because I know my Mom very well, and me and my siblings are lucky enough to still have her with us here, so I can still talk to her), is that I just adopted that deep belief cause my Mom had it (or a version of it that I may have misinterpreted, at the time I was a toddler). It was this strong judgemental version of Catholicism that she subjected herself to, that had a lot to do with it. She was guilt ridden, and ashamed (but a virtuous shame is how I think she saw it!) at that time, for no good reason, and actually it has taken her years and years and years to slowly let go all those false beliefs of her own. Via that ideology (which she had other selfish reasons for adopting – like fear of death, which she is still subject to even today), she was wallowing in her “unworthiness”, and probably in her internal psychic life, saw that as virtuous. She had trapped herself within a dynamic of self-disrespect (but was not admitting to herself that in fact that was what was occurring). I think women are particularly prone to this type of thing.

    Once I was finally able to see that this “imprint” was from her, it was quite easy to let it go (but that was a pretty emotional experience that probably took a couple of weeks to fully process). The biggest problem was seeing, after a lifetime, that such engram was in itself weird – you know you just start accepting weird things as normal after awhile – human nature (and it is a very weird engram because of course …… if I am here ….. I am, by simple logic, “worthy of this world” …. just as is everyone who is here ….. obvious when you think about it). So I finally could give myself a break….. have some compassion for my previous self …… the little boy ….. hey, my Mom was in pain and I wanted to help, so via the childish unsophisticated compassion – I incorrectly adopted her pain as my own – is probably how my pre-language mind processed it at that time. Nothing wrong with that. So …. it turns out I’m OK then, I am worthy of this world just like everybody else, and all this helps me understand my Mom better too, who in alot of way is a great lady, and actually truly compassionate, and it would be mucho wrong for me to frame it in such a way as if she were an “abusive” mother. No …. she was a person struggling with our human existential predicament, as we all are. The human condition is such that we all tend to bleed into one another to some degree ….. part of being a human ……. no one is immune to this.

    Softek – don’t know if this helps or not (I haven’t kept up with all your comments so I don’t know what the nature of your early childhood “abusive” environment was). Maybe you already embraced at a very early age that you are “worthy of this world” because the “abuse” was much more blatant. But such people often tend to go the other way, and emphasize the self-respect necessary for self-preservation under such much more blatant “abusive” early environmental circumstances. But by the tone of your writing …..this doesn’t seem to be you.

    So if what I said here is helpful to you ….. the key point to recognize is that the existential sin of disrespecting oneself is the gravest sin of all, is how I think one’s own personal “mastermind” perceives it, and that rabbit-hole has many twists and turns, convolutions and permutations. Siblings can sometimes help one tease out the early family dynamic.

  6. @SJF

    I generally think personally types are mostly horoscope-style in that they scatrershot and a person’s confirmation bias will pick out what they already think of themselves.

    More specifically, some of the questions are about characteristics that are highly malleable. As an example, I saw “do you have difficulty, or are reluctant to introduce yourself to new people?” This comes down to self stifling. Culum’s recent FRs are proof that this can be changed or overcome over time. Amazing progress btw man!

    Another one was along the lines of “do you let other people influence your decisions?” Basically, do you have a strong frame, lol. Which I think we all can agree can be developed.

    Out of curiosity, have you taken these tests at different points in your life? Has your type changed over time?

    Could you also expand on how you define “minimizing weaknesses”? Ive just developed a real aversion to others (personality tests, Ted talks, anyone) telling guys what they are or aren’t, what they can and can’t do. Too often guys will use these as a handicap or excuse.

    As a personal example, I’ve always been a shy person around new people, self diagnosed social anxiety to the max. I went and bought into the whole “introvert” excuse, buying Susan Cain’s dumb book. THAT was the reason, I told myself, I didn’t have girls in my life, and if THEY would only change and accept the REAL me, I would.

    Red Pill/PUA helped me realize that it was my fault, but the good news was that I could fix it if I wanted to. These were learnable skills (strong frame, not being stifled, etc.)

    Not saying you are doing this with your Meyers Briggs “weaknesses” (which is why I asked you to expand on “minimizing”) but I know it is SO easy for guys to read “ABCDs are not good at expressing themselves” and just go “welp, that’s just me, I wasn’t meant to be expressive”

  7. Savage Love today:

    Apparently, there are lots of people out there who don’t realize how many long-marrieds—men and women, gay and straight, poly and mono—fuck their spouses out of a grim sense of duty. It seems a bit extreme to describe that kind of sex as a consent-free/sexual-assault-adjacent trauma. Choosing in the absence of coercion to go through the marital motions to keep your spouse happy is rarely great sex—for either party—but slapping the nonconsensual label on joyless-but-trauma-free marital sex is neither helpful nor accurate.

    Of course if a husband wasn’t getting properly drained he could avoid any nonconsenual activity by going to a professional, but Jimmy Carter in today’s Washington Post wants the buyers of sex to be targeted. In FI land any problem is solely the fault of men.

  8. “Somebody has read Dianetics.” – Ha! That not be me. If the old bastard Hubbard said shit like that – guess he musta read my mind or something.

  9. “I generally think personally types are mostly horoscope-style in that they scatrershot and a person’s confirmation bias will pick out what they already think of themselves.”

    They’re the somatotype of the mind. It’s interesting that the idea of somatotypes was formed by a psychologist, not a physiologist, as he believed that somatotypes were related to personality types.

    More or less phrenology expanded to take up the whole of the body.

    These ideas can have value, I’ve used tarot cards to get people to open up, so long as you avoid the danger of starting to believe they’re empirically real.

  10. @ The Man

    The abuse was multi-faceted, but as one example, one of the regular abuses made me think I was going to die every time: Forcing my face into a pillow so I couldn’t breathe, and not being let up until I was screaming/begging to be let up and I thought I was going to die because I couldn’t get any air. Tears would be streaming down my face and I’d be terrified and exhausted after, during which time I’d be called a crybaby.

    I haven’t actually addressed that memory yet. Thanks for bringing up my old comment: that’s a core belief I have, though it’s easy to forget. Having the skills to improve yourself is one thing; using them is another.

    Simple reason: it hurts. When I remember shit like that, it hurts. Same deal as when I think about having gotten molested by a doctor at a physical, and then the rage that comes up when I think about it. Mixed with the helplessness/unawareness/innocence and being taken advantage of, feeling humiliated, etc.

    You see, it isn’t about “holding on” to memories like this, or “man up and get over it,” or “don’t let it control you.” This stuff is buried deep on a limbic level, and you have to use techniques that will work to correct this, like Pavlovian Conditioning in reverse.


    Quick example of Faster EFT method to do this: first ask the ‘magic question,’ which is how do you know?

    How do you know this memory of being suffocated bothers you?

    I feel it in my chest and in my gut.

    Okay. And how do you know you feel it there?

    It feels like they’re being tightened in a vice grip. My head is feeling heavy and I can feel my eyes are starting to well up. I feel trapped and panicked.

    ^^^ This is the point where you go through the ‘let it go’ process. Once you lock into the painful emotions that you want to avoid, step out of them:

    Okay. I want you to tap.

    *while tapping forehead* It’s safe to let this go. Nothing bad is going to happen if I let this go. It’s safe for me to let this go.

    *while tapping side of the head* I’m really here in this room right now. I’m 26 years old and I’m sitting here writing a comment on Rational Male. This is a memory I’m re-creating right now. It’s not really happening right now. I’m safe right now. I can feel the floor beneath my feet.

    *while tapping under the eye* It’s safe for me to let this go. I’ve felt this pain for so many years. I’m not getting anything out of reliving it over and over again. It’s safe to just let it go.

    *while tapping middle of chest* It’s safe to let this go. I’m okay as I let it go. Just let it all go.

    *grab wrist, take a deep breath, blow it out, and say PEACE*


    Keep repeating. That’s the basic process. It doesn’t matter much what you say: the goal is TOTE:


    Go into the bad memory, step out of the bad memory by interrupting it with the tapping and simple “let it go,” or any other reassuring/grounding phrases or sentences you can think of ad lib, take a deep breath, blow it out and say peace, then go back to the bad memory.

    You will notice that the memory, or the feelings associated with the memory, or visual representations of it, start to shift gradually. When I was really focusing on this when I was having panic attacks every day I would sessions with myself for around 45 minutes to an hour in the morning with myself, until the panic would go away and I’d feel stable, and I could think of the previously upsetting memories, and they no longer bothered me.

    That is real empowerment.

    You’ll also notice that, without digging in your past, without even TRYING, your core feelings/memories will come up all their own, simply by asking “How do you know?” and following the rabbit trail.

    And as all these bits and pieces come up, you clear them out one by one.

    Sometimes you’ll notice that WORKING ON them causes resistance. You’ll start panicking because you think, “Who will I be if I let go of this?” and fear that changing/altering your memories is DANGEROUS. Like uh oh, I’d better not change this bad memory….

    …and why?

    These emotional reactions that are ruining your life are TRYING TO PROTECT YOU.

    So the most common fear is that by letting go of these bad memories, you will become VULNERABLE. On a limbic level, you feel like you’re being attacked by a pack of wild dogs.

    And the “safest” thing to do is run. Or fight. Adrenaline. Anxiety. To “let it go” is like turning over on your belly and exposing your vitals to the dogs for them to have a field day on. NO WAY are you going to do that, you’ve gotta FIGHT FOR YOUR LIFE, so why the hell would you let go of your FEARS when they’re keeping you alive?

    This is how it seems to the unconscious mind. Protecting you from threats. To alter the threat response you have to make changes on the unconscious level.

    SJF is also right in one sense that Faster EFT will not help: it won’t help if you use it as an escape.

    Even addressing memories of abuse, while it can improve my life and help, is still avoiding addressing fears of Cold Approaching, of going out and sarging, of dealing with the potential loss of my current relationship, etc.

    I could very easily obsess about abuse, and all this other shit that happened, and avoid using Faster EFT on OTHER stuff I want to address, e.g. stuff having to do with sex/relationships and building up business.

    Resistance is huge. I know how to do this, but am resistant to it. It feels EASIER AND SAFER to stay away from the world and just write comments online instead of going out and doing anything.

    So even once you know how to use something like Faster EFT or the Sedona Method or whatever, bringing yourself to do it can be very challenging.

    I think it’s best to address old memories when shit hits the fan and they are REALLY bothering you. Other than that, I think it’s most productive to use these techniques on things that are bothering you RIGHT NOW, like wanting to get a new job, wanting to be better with women, etc.

    And anyway, when you start addressing your current desires, the old memories and bullshit will come up on their own anyway, and you can address them as they come up.

  11. “Ha! That not be me.”

    Perhaps I was a bit too terse this time and should have included “or has been influenced by someone who has.”

    Your terminology is straight up Dianetics, and as Hubbard constructed his own terminology, you got it from somewhere other than a conventional source.

    In constructing his terminology he used a common huckster trick (see feminism) of taking existing words and giving them new definitions.

    An engram is a form of conditioned memory used by organisms that lack a nervous system. Generally in the form of chemical responses to chemical stimuli. So we’re talking single cells.

    Your nervous system, taken as a whole, does not have engrams, it has patterns.

  12. @ya

    Chris Hemsworth and RDJ have some good examples.

    like at :35-1:00 where RDJ is doing his usual thing that he’d do to Evans (expecting him to build him up after self-deprecating)

    but when RDJ is like ‘I’m just a fella…’ Hemsworth PAUSES and then is like ‘no you’re not….’ but it’s in a tone of mock sympathy.

    ‘lol welcome to 2016 and a level of LITERALLY infinite abundance that the average girl has because of technology:’

    i agree with this, but at the same time, most guys are so lame that I’m finding it easier and easier to stand out.

    the only thing that’s annoying is just to witness how fucked in the head a lot of girls get by this. like, they actually believe the hype and fail to realize that all the favors and attention they get = they have a vagina + some level of attractive.

    but w/e you just gotta kind of smirk to yourself and go ‘lol ya, wait til you’re 33….’


    ‘YaReally and Scray are trying to run as far away from social conditioning as humanly and masculinely possible.’

    I mean, I think our generation is just not going to expend effort and energy on x or y just because ‘that’s how it’s done.’

    [warning: political shit ahead]

    the US is one of the biggest lying POS societies ever to exist. the US says it’s a meritocracy; in reality, the inter-generational elasticity of wealth is the HIGHEST in the developed world (just think of it as the heritability of income/wealth —> and no, it isn’t explained by shit like IQ etc. AINEC). The US says that its brand of capitalism (idk wtf that even means in the US anymore, seems like handouts for X rather than Y) leads to great economic outcomes; but the stock markets in democratic socialist countries have outperformed the US stock market. The US says it’s a peacekeeper, when most of the armed conflicts since WW2 have been started or directly instigated by the US…

    on and on and on and on and on….

    TBP and the marriage idea was just invented to keep men dependent and locked into shitty jobs to make other people rich.

    now, agree or disagree with the interpretation of the above (they’re facts but maybe you don’t agree about the implications)….in this society, people will lie to you to get ahead.

    and back in the day, like you guys say, a lot of the social conditioning was still okay because most people still benefitted. like, ok, the guy maybe didn’t think his job was the best, but he could make a decent wage without a college degree and have some solid friends and most of the time his blue pill behaviors would pay off.

    that’s not true anymore.

    if you don’t know exactly what the fuck is up these days, you. are. FUCKED.

    why do you think i got into the game?

    i’m a fucking cool dude and i was getting bogged down in LTRs with 5-6’s? and no one was telling me how i could even make the most of myself — that’s how stupid it is, people are just being WAY underutilized and not living up to their potential.

    and like, talking to you and blax reminds me (again, don’t take this as you’re old) of talking to my dad….because he has the same approach. over the years he built a strong frame (married 3x…after the second one spent like 15 years swearing up and down against marriage and just sort of playing the field), but there’s a lot of couching in blue pill language.

    i observed this and watched him and that’s part of where the whole ‘know your limits’ thing came into play. he settled back into marriage when he reached a certain age and he was starting to slow down, so he found a good woman to take care of him. he still flirts and he’s at the gym and he rides his motorcycles….

    which makes sense….you guys came of age when there was a huge crackdown against a lot of straight-up TRP truths….

  13. “the US is one of the biggest lying POS societies ever to exist.”

    Back in the Cold War there was a joke: the difference between the Soviet press and the American press is that the American government can’t get the press to report its lies accurately.

    My how times have changed.

  14. @ The Man

    Also, I’m not trying to play keyboard warrior.

    Two steps I’ve taken recently, in line with advice from guys here, has been deleting my FB profile, and not responding to a string of texts from the GF that I’m suspecting (still naive with this stuff, lol) are an attempt to manipulate me/guilt trip me/shame me into putting up with her behavior.

    Worked out this morning, got a couple jobs done, and have been more structured today. I haven’t been sleeping or eating well and taking care of myself on a basic level (changing clothes/showering/eating/sleeping) is priority 1. When those things go out the window I know I’m on a downward spiral.

    And now that I’m writing here about Faster EFT, it’s reminding me that even taking 5 minutes to tap on something that’s bothering me can make a HUGE difference in my day.

    I have used it on other people and used to help people over Skype, lol. The proof positive to me is that it’s worked on people who had no idea what I was doing and had never heard of it before, which included getting rid of a severe migraine headache in a co-worker at my old job. My boss gave me shit when I wanted to take my break to help her, saying “What are you, a doctor? What the hell are you gonna do?”

    10 minutes later the migraine, which was so bad she could hardly open her eyes, was completely gone. Her words verbatim: “How the hell did you do that?”

    I had her go back and recall the first time she remembers having a migraine, where she was, how she felt, worked on that, then shifted to a memory of her feeling completely at peace and relaxed, and after pulling her out of the migraine and into the relaxation a few times, it disappeared. She told me a few months later she hadn’t had any migraines since.

    And then my boss was like “What are you, Rasputin or something?”


    Really though, even I have thought it’s BS before, but every time I use it on anyone who’s willing, and it WORKS, and they’re like “Whoah, that’s crazy, what the fuck,” it reminds me to keep up with it for myself.

    That’s one thing I gotta address in myself, lol. Talk about programming. I’ve witnessed it working and experienced it firsthand, but all it takes is some random person to go, “Yo, that shit is gay, that is fucking bullshit, you’re a loser, how can you believe that haha fag”…

    (keep in mind I can just IMAGINE someone saying that, even if no one’s ever said that to me….thoughts on schizophrenia here, and hallucinating critical voices calling you a bum and an asshole and a loser all day……IMO definitely a connection there)

    …to shatter my will to keep using it and then I just go into feeling bad about myself and feel powerless to help myself in my situation. Programs run very deep. It’s all unconscious, which is why rationalizing doesn’t do the job.

    It’s because the emotions are stronger. Rationalization doesn’t have emotions behind it unless you put them there, like feelings of “I love my life” or “I can’t wait to wake up tomorrow and get started on this new project” or “I love learning new things and meeting new people,” “I love going out and having fun,” etc.

    I can RATIONALLY UNDERSTAND that this girl I’m with is not the ONLY GIRL IN THE WHOLE WORLD I can ever be with in my entire life. But even as I write that out, guess what comes up?

    EMOTIONS that say she is. Guess which one is going to win? I could get all the advice in the world, but if the EMOTIONS behind my UNCONSCIOUS BELIEFS are stronger, they’re going to win every time.

    BELIEFS are driven by EMOTIONS. Address the emotions, and the beliefs will crumble. If you pull the emotions out of all the memories that support your belief that you’re the world’s biggest piece of shit, guess what?

    You’ll no longer believe you’re the world’s biggest piece of shit, because there are no emotions to support it. Emotions are what make our beliefs about ourselves feel real.

    This is why YaReally can share PUA advice until the cows come home, but the only guys who are going to take it are guys that have, consciously or unconsciously, intentionally or unintentionally, addressed their INNER BELIEF SYSTEMS that are keeping them from going out and sarging, cold approaching, picking up and fucking women, etc.

    You have to use PUA on yourself first in a sense, lol. You have to learn how to get YOURSELF on a positive emotional carnival fun ride and entertain YOURSELF, and then it will be easier to do this with women.

    I don’t have much in field experience, but I have SOME. Enough to know that this is true. The only times I picked women up were when I was feeling good about myself and was on an up-swing: having fun with myself, entertaining myself, and being like hey, I could have fun with that girl, let’s bring into my world which is awesome.

    ONE-itis and other things can trigger old unconscious beliefs.

    This is why I was on an upswing when I met this girl, and now am feeling like I’m back where I was. This relationship has brought a ton of shit up that I THOUGHT I addressed, but I hadn’t.

    Making peace with this relationship and letting go of the negative emotions around it are a HUGE OPPORTUNITY for me to grow.

    This doesn’t have to be a nightmare. It can be something I grow from, and never have to deal with again.

    Rollo’s never had a BPD girlfriend after recovering from his situation, and made a permanent change.

    As scrib says, “Learning implies a permanent change in behavior.”

    That’s the truth. I’ll get off my soap box for now. I will say that writing this stuff out helps me to re-imprint it in my own mind and remind me of why I spent so much time learning things like Faster EFT in the first place.

  15. As with most things in order to answer the question you need to peel the onion and discover the underlying motivation. In the Monogamy / Non Monogamy non sequitur if the motivation is ultimately based on fear and that fear from scarcity… there will be issues on either path. If the choice is based on abundance however, neither is wrong.

    And to get to a true abundance mindset you need to have had children… and I would say male children at that (interesting that I think all the prolific posters have no sons? Is that right?). when you have a male child, you can look at him and see YOU, but not just a version of you, a version that can be far superior because it is YOU to the power of YOU x time…

    And from THAT perspective you can see how the patriarchy was established, and so monogamy (for the female) made so much more sense.

    As to social conditioning… face it bub, you are part of society… IF you have a kid, you are going to deal with it via child support whether married or not, same as divorce… watch those common law wife states too… Watch the co-habitation… The FI is not only sneaky as HABD says, it also carries the force of law and guns to back that up…

    Of course if you are pursuing the Platinum Rule [Do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it] you do not care about “social conditioning” and you do not enter that frame. And from that mindset you can go beyond game towards developing the Alpha Triad, to living a dynamic, passionate and authentic life. A life of constant abundance in attitude. A life with the gravitational pull to bring all others into your orbit.

  16. @kfg

    ‘Back in the Cold War there was a joke: the difference between the Soviet press and the American press is that the American government can’t get the press to report its lies accurately.’

    George Lucas has a great quote about this too

    he’s like ‘ya in America you’re so censored by commercialism and having your artistic vision firmly in control of the studio….i mean, i envy the soviet fillmmakers…they can say whatever they want as long as they don’t criticize the government.’

  17. This is also why scrib has advised to FUCK OTHER WOMEN.

    Why? Because it gives your brain new reference points. New unconscious material that it can draw on to write your own personal “How-To Manual” for the world.

    I’ve been having sex dreams for the first time in my entire life, because for the first time in my entire life I know what it feels like to have my dick inside a pussy. Never thought I’d see the day.

    Take that to the next level, and knowing what it’s like to experience Abundance: you can lock that in, too. Especially once you’ve really experienced it.

    (you can lose it, like scrib did for a while because he was beating the shit out of himself about his age and other shit, but it’s a matter of perspective and tapping into positive memories/self image through conscious effort, and letting go of the bad shit with stuff like Faster EFT or Sedona Method)

    But as scrib says, all the talking in the world won’t give you those experiences. I can describe to a guy who’s never gotten laid what it feels like to have your dick in a pussy. Until you do it, you can’t get it. I bought a fleshlight long before I got laid, so trust me, lol. I was like, is this really what pussy feels like? I don’t know…..

    I just used it the other night and I was comparing it with memories of how real pussy feels and it was pretty interesting.

    What’s funny is I actually ENJOYED using it too. When I was incel, the fleshlight was tied to what I thought was my terminal Beta-hood. Now that I’ve gotten out of that I feel like hey, if I wanna whack off, fuck it.

    I made a point to just do it without feeling guilt/shame. Think women feel shame for using their foreign animal or vampire or frankenstein dildos or whatever? Lol. There are like a million articles about dildos and how women’s sexual pleasure matters while male infants are being circumcised and then cast into the “terminal loser” category if they own something like a fleshlight.

    So I used it and it felt awesome. Also because now that I’ve had sex in real life, I’m no longer hung up on that.

    I was suicidal over thinking I was going to die without ever having experienced sex. Now that I’ve experienced it, while I still have a ton of other issues, it feels like there’s been a release. I can think and remember what it feels like and I find comfort in having experienced it. It also makes me feel good, and have the capacity to imagine having sex with other women.

    My brain actually FORCED me to simulate having options/abundance, because the sex dream I had was of me fucking some other girl. I woke up and felt great.

    Which is maybe a sign that if I did it in real life I’d also feel great.

    But when you’re asleep, the conscious mind is shut off.

    After being awake for a while I start remembering the situation with the GF, and back to beating the shit out of myself, having a savior complex, ONE-itis, scarcity mentality, etc.

    Even in my head now I’m fearing responses like “Throw the fleshlight out, what are you, some kind of faggot?” or scrib telling me to get rid of the fucking fleshlight and go fuck some real pussy for christ’s sake.

    (not that he would be wrong, lol, and I actually want to take that advice….thank you meta-holographic scrib who is living inside my head, haha…just make sure you split the rent even with Ya and SJF and Blax and everyone else)

    Like I’m always EXPECTING someone to just jump in and verbally beat the shit out of me, much like with schizophrenia you could be walking down the street or taking a city bus and in your head you hear three people calling you a stupid asshole and that you’re a fuckup, etc.

    (I’ve known several people with chronic schizophrenia and also have had one delusional episode myself, and I can remember how my thoughts went from simple self-criticism to believing shit like I was having thoughts planted in my head….

    ……IMO, at least for me, it was a combination of inflammation from lack of sleep/poor diet/no exercise/poor hydration and compulsive self-critical thoughts that begged for some kind of rationalization……I didn’t have an explanation for feeling so out of control of myself, so my mind decided that demons were planting thoughts in my head and forcing me to say things to people that would make them hate me)

    This is all NORMAL. It’s simply a matter of degree. Everyone’s brain works like this. The trick is to be self-aware enough to know when you’re beating the shit out of yourself, and to LET IT GO.

    That, and the good old classic “Flooding” technique of jumping into a cold pool.

    I do wish I had a friend who could swing by my house and drag me out to a local bar or something and force me to interact with women.

    I have ONE friend who wants to go to a bar sometime, who I haven’t seen in a while. If I could go with him, even though I don’t think he’d be into sarging…..that could work.

    Just to get my feet wet and get out of my head. And to get some new references for my brain to use.

    Shutting down FB has definitely helped, amazing how much time I was wasting on that shit just doing NOTHING. Advertising for business did help and I might get back on temporarily just to throw my phone number out to a couple people who had inquired about work they needed done.

    It’s warm. Summer is coming. I want it to be a good one.

  18. Hey Softek – this “Faster EFT method” you speak of (which I don’t know anything about other than what you have explained), sounds a bit like Carlos Castaneda’s prescription of “recapitulation”.

    Despite what you may think of CC (very very controversial guy) the point I am making is ….. I think alot of people and healing traditions have seen the value in “undoing” psychic scripts or engrams or habits or whatever you want to call them, if such are no longer useful or are actually now obstructive. Heck ….. that is what Freud & company and the psychoanalysis tradition is about. And this human endeavor in one form or another has been going on for at least 1,000’s of years (i.e – the ayahuasca tradition in South America for instance)

    Strange as this may sound to you…… what I found helpful for awhile, is getting on my bike, and then go find a community circular pathway (where I live there are some of these to be found here and there that are not well used), and then ride my bike around and around counterclockwise, with the weird woo-woo psychic intention that I was going back in time and reclaiming psychic/emotional energy I left in the past, that I need to re-purpose now ….. and that energy is trapped in past experiences ………. look this is weird and crazy but strangely enough …..if you just take the playful attitude of entertaining something weird, and commit to the weirdness enough so as to give it an honest try ….. well …. there seems to be some benefit derived in that case (but I would be very careful about attributing a description to this phenomenon outside of just saying “from a certain perspective it looks like this may be going on, however from another certain perspective it looks like something else may be going on, etc. etc.” …. and then just sort of laugh at the whole bizarreness of how descriptions can be so different depending on the perspective one decides to entertain) …… the point being …. no one really knows …… but humans are still going to keep looking for meaning anyway …. just the way we are. So the main point being …. try for “light” or “playful” instead of “too heavy” or “serious” with one’s explorations around this stuff, despite that fact that the associated emotions that are so beckoned can be powerful, so there may be a tendency to get overly serious, but that ultimately is a mistake …. best to stay “light”.

    Softtek – in my experience these endeavors become supercharged if one begins to consider, ….. “well why did I come to form these limiting beliefs in the first place?” (and if you think that you were born that way, well then you will never really truly consider that question). Thinking one was “born deficient that way” is a powerfully limiting false belief (a double bind). If you do have it …. best to go for the kill shot …. and kill it.

    Softek – Does the Faster EFT method focus one’s attention on “why did I come to form these limiting beliefs in the first place”? If not, then given that the method seems to be useful to you anyway …. can you modify it in some way ….. personal to you ….. to bring in the element of “why did I come to form these limiting beliefs in the first place?”

    But it seems you may have already so-tailored your method for yourself already because you said:

    “You’ll also notice that, without digging in your past, without even TRYING, your core feelings/memories will come up all their own, simply by asking “How do you know?” and following the rabbit trail.”

    Sounds like you this is working for you.

    You also said:

    “And as all these bits and pieces come up, you clear them out one by one.
    Sometimes you’ll notice that WORKING ON them causes resistance. You’ll start panicking because you think, “Who will I be if I let go of this?” and fear that changing/altering your memories is DANGEROUS. Like uh oh, I’d better not change this bad memory….…and why? These emotional reactions that are ruining your life are TRYING TO PROTECT YOU. So the most common fear is that by letting go of these bad memories, you will become VULNERABLE. On a limbic level, you feel like you’re being attacked by a pack of wild dogs.”

    Softek – consider this – perhaps the panic and resistance is not what you think it is. Napoleon Hill has got this idea about a group of mature people one can foster around themselves, and use as one’s mastermind, one’s superior guidance. I have borrowed his term, but shifted the idea so as to hi-light what I think we each have, which is our own “personal mastermind”, which is the sum total of absolutely everything that has ever happened to you, and inclusive of all the elements of your unconscious mind. This personal mastermind is not at all what people mean be “ego” (which is mostly about the conscious aspect, or the conscious/unconscious interface, of ourselves), or even “superego” or “id”. It is more than all of the above. I think our own personal mastermind despises self-disrespect first and foremost. Perhaps the panic and resistance you are feeling is actually more-so a reaction to the guilt and shame you will have to feel once one admits to oneself, consciously, that one has allowed self-disrespect to creep in, and as such has committed the gravest sin of all – the sin of self-disrespect. I think alot of people are walking around in denial about that (because it is less painful to put up with the cognitive dissonance that will flow from the dishonest denial, whatever it’s flavor, than face the pain that will be associated with accepting that one did indeed disrespected oneself). I am not saying necessarily that is you (not my place, or anyone else’s to say for sure) – but I am saying it may be worthwhile for you to take this up for consideration. If it turns out that is you …. well then …. you are in good company. If so you may find that is a private and personal adventure for you alone.

    I wish you well.

  19. @Harrison Bergeron

    You are correct in the fact that personalities change. Rollo’s example: military PTSD.

    Another problem is that people distribute on a bell curve rather than on the tails, so there might be less accuracy.

    But it is not so much somebody telling you how you are it is about a person understanding themselves.

    If the shoe fits, it then become about awareness of strengths and weaknesses.

    As far as minimizing weaknesses, take for example what Softek is up against in beating blue pill, AFCism and One-itis:

    Too Idealistic – INFPs often take their idealism too far, setting themselves up for disappointment as, again and again, evil things happen in the world. This is true on a personal level too, as INFPs may not just idealize their partners, but idolize them, forgetting that no one is perfect.

    Too Altruistic – INFPs sometimes see themselves as selfish, but only because they want to give so much more than they are able to. This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as they try to push themselves to commit to a chosen cause or person, forgetting to take care of the needs of others in their lives, and especially themselves.

    Impractical – When something captures INFPs’ imagination, they can neglect practical matters like day-to-day maintenance and simple pleasures. Sometimes people with the INFP personality type will take this asceticism so far as to neglect eating and drinking as they pursue their passion or cause.

    Dislike Dealing With Data – INFPs are often so focused on the big picture that they forget the forest is made of individual trees. INFPs are in tune with emotions and morality, and when the facts and data contradict their ideals, it can be a real challenge for them.

    Take Things Personally – INFPs often take challenges and criticisms personally, rather than as inspiration to reassess their positions. Avoiding conflict as much as possible, INFPs will put a great deal of time and energy into trying to align their principles and the criticisms into a middle ground that satisfies everybody.

    Difficult to Get to Know – INFPs are private, reserved and self-conscious. This makes them notoriously difficult to really get to know, and their need for these qualities contributes to the guilt they often feel for not giving more of themselves to those they care about.

    Link for Softek’s Strengths:

    Here is how he deals with relationships: If he sees how he tends to view things, he can avoid some of the pitfalls of being blue pill and develop strengths with red pill awareness. As you can see, he has his work cut out for him if he wants to spin plates. He “will never achieve contentment or emotional fulfillment in a blue pill context with red pill awareness”. :

    Quote from linked site:


    INFPs are dreamy idealists, and in the pursuit of the perfect relationship, this quality shows strongest. Never short on imagination, INFPs dream of the perfect relationship, forming an image of this pedestalled ideal that is their soul mate, playing and replaying scenarios in their heads of how things will be. This is a role that no person can hope to fill, and people with the INFP personality type need to recognize that nobody’s perfect, and that relationships don’t just magically fall into place – they take compromise, understanding and effort.

    INFP romantic relationships
    Love All, Trust a Few, Do Wrong to None

    Fortunately these are qualities that INFPs are known for, and while it can be a challenge to separate long-fostered fantasy from reality, INFPs’ tendency to focus their attention on just a few people in their lives means that they will approach new relationships wholeheartedly, with a sense of inherent value, dedication and trust.

    INFPs share a sincere belief in the idea of relationships – that two people can come together and make each other better and happier than they were alone, and they will take great efforts to show support and affection in order to make this ideal a reality.

    But INFPs aren’t necessarily in a rush to commit – they are, after all, Prospecting (P) types, and are almost always looking to either establish a new relationship or improve an existing one – they need to be sure they’ve found someone compatible. In dating, INFPs will often start with a flurry of comparisons, exploring all the ways the current flame matches with the ideal they’ve imagined. This progression can be a challenge for a new partner, as not everyone is able to keep up with INFPs’ rich imagination and moral standards – if incompatibilities and conflict over this initial rush mount, the relationship can end quickly, with INFPs likely sighing that “it wasn’t meant to be.”

    As a relationship takes hold, people with the INFP personality type will show themselves to be passionate, hopeless romantics, while still respecting their partners’ independence. INFPs take the time to understand those they care about, while at the same time helping them to learn, grow and change. While INFPs are well-meaning, not everyone appreciates what can come across as constantly being told that they need to improve – or, put another way, that they’re not good enough. INFPs would be aghast to find that their intents were interpreted this way, but it’s a real risk, and if their partner is as averse to conflict as INFPs themselves, it can boil under the surface for some time before surfacing, too late to fix.

    Better Three Hours Too Soon Than a Minute Too Late

    This aversion to conflict, while contributing greatly to stability in the relationship when done right, is probably the most urgent quality for INFPs to work on. Between their sensitivity and imagination, INFPs are prone to internalizing even objective statements and facts, reading into their themes and exaggerated consequences, sometimes responding as though these comments are metaphors designed to threaten the very foundations of their principles. Naturally this is almost certainly an overreaction, and INFPs should practice what they preach, and focus on improving their ability to respond to criticism with calm objectivity, rather than irrational accusations and weaponized guilt.

    But that’s at their uncommon worst – at their best, INFPs do everything they can to be the ideal partner, staying true to themselves and encouraging their partners to do the same. INFPs take their time in becoming physically intimate so that they can get to know their partners, using their creativity to understand their wants and needs, and adapt to them. People with this personality type are generous in their affection, with a clear preference for putting the pleasure of their partners first – it is in knowing that their partners are satisfied that INFPs truly feel the most pleasure.”

  20. Hey kfg – the way I am using the term “engram” or “psychic scripts” is in keeping with Gabor Mate’s ideas around the implications of the huge human brain architecture changes during infancy and very early childhood periods, as mitigated by the the google definition:

    engram = a hypothetical permanent change in the brain accounting for the existence of memory; a memory trace.

    Now the you mention it, (and as such I have now looked at the wikipedia Dianetics article) I do see the Hubbard used this term as well (but so did others). Truth be told I really don’t know when or by what source this term entered by vocabulary (but I did double check against the google definition before using it here). I have never read Hubbard more than in just a very brief and cursory way. Can’t remember what put me off wrt Hubbard’s writing.

    I’m confident that, wrt what I wrote above, my meanings were otherwise clear enough so as to be impervious to side-track by way of a word etymology discussion.

  21. “Gabor Mate . . .”

    . . . is lifting a good deal of pre-Scientology Hubbard (as have others).

    “I’m confident that, wrt what I wrote above, my meanings were otherwise clear enough . . .”

    Correct, but you will be tagged as a Scientologist for use of their terms. I’m just making you aware of that.

    “Can’t remember what put me off wrt Hubbard’s writing.”

    He wrote Dianetics as if he was speaking to an idiot child. I suspect he did so deliberately to filter for idiot children.

    ” . . .etymology discussion.”

    Bugs got nuttin’ to do with it (yes, I know what you mean, but when language stops being important, language starts being useless).

  22. Hey – kfg – I didn’t know that about Gabor Mate – interesting …… do you have a source that is making the point that Mate was seriously affected by Hubbard? If you have such, please let me know ….. cause I am very interested in “concept etymology”, as opposed to being less so interested in “word etymology” (though I do see the two fields of inquiry are related).

    And it is clear that Mate himself does suffer from certain psychological problems (in fact he is not shy about saying so). I still like his core ideas though.

    kfg – I will take you word wrt “engram” being more so connoted with Dianetics in people’s mindset, normatively, – if so good advice not to use the word then. Perhaps “gestalt underpinnings” would be a better phrase anyway.

    Thanks for your input.

    Also – on the etymology thing, once again – google definition:

    etymology = the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history.

    The bug thing is “entomology”

  23. The bug thing is “entomology”

    It’s a fair cop. I had a serious brain fart at an inopportune moment and must pay the consequences. The funny thing is, it got all jumbled in my head when I looked at the etymology and entomology (does Selective Trout count?) texts on my deskside bookshelf.

    I may not be an idiot child, but I am dyslexic and it can sometimes pop up with some odd symptoms.

    I learned to touch type formally to help deal with the comorbid dysgraphia, so where I used to mirror write d and b, I now mirror write d and k; same finger, wrong hand.

  24. I get brain farts all the time. Dyslexia is only one of many ways of being subject to seeing things differently than others. We humans be creatures with messy minds. That’s why we gotta be good to each other man.

  25. “I didn’t know that about Gabor Mate – interesting …… do you have a source that is making the point that Mate was seriously affected by Hubbard?”

    Just some historical knowledge (including that of hucksters and their techniques) and having read some of their stuff. Dianetics was published when Mate was only six years old, and had been in development, publicly, for some years previous.

    One thing hucksters do is what has been proven to work. Find something that worked in the past but people have largely forgotten about (20 years is sufficient, in fact in some fields, like diet, there is a 20 year cycle), rework it a bit to rebrand it, and have at.

    Mate’s gig is to play Hubbard as he was in the 40s, when he was developing Dianetics (according to the official Scientology history) in a therapeutic setting, without all the religious cult crap that got added on later.

    So no, I can’t point you to someone else who is saying the same thing I am (which would just be argument by authority in any case). What I can do is assert that if you do the reading you will see it for yourself. I think it’s pretty damned clear.

    I should also note, to be fair, that not all hucksters know they are hucksters. They can be just as much dupes of their own scam as anyone else by being taken in by the scam they emulate.

  26. @ scray

    “….and back in the day, like you guys say, a lot of the social conditioning was still okay because most people still benefitted. like, ok, the guy maybe didn’t think his job was the best, but he could make a decent wage without a college degree and have some solid friends and most of the time his blue pill behaviors would pay off.

    that’s not true anymore.

    if you don’t know exactly what the fuck is up these days, you. are. FUCKED.”

    ^^ This is all very true.

    There has been a bullshit program foisted on the American people. It is only reasonable to understand that a man working 40 hours a week, doing ANYTHING should not be poor or struggling. I cringe every time I hear a phrase like ” poor career choices “, because an honest day’s work is supposed to be a minimum requirement.

    It’s playing on people’s sense of self worth and false sense of accomplishment. The goal is always downward pressure on wages.

    One thing I always stress to young men is that they have to FIGHT. I learned as a child that our country was born by fighting. Protest is the only thing that get’s action, and the protesting must not end when bullshit is the order of the day.

    We suffer from learned powerlessness.

    Lol, every time I see a protest today, the media is always relieved that there was no violence. That’s the mantra today ; Peaceful protests. Young people have to relearn the art of the protest, backed by the suggestion of violence.

    If you wince at that thought, you’ve been pretty much brainwashed.

    The population has been tamed.

    ” protest ” now must follow a set of rules.

    Why listen to that?

    Welcome to the oligarchy.

    The shit being perpetrated on citizens now is a full on disgrace. The corporate masters have purchased and employed our government, and our representatives work for them. The largest corporations have been setting record profit levels for over a decade now, but wages are pretty much flat and have been since the 70’s. Wtf?

    So my suggestion for young men is to organize and fight, using every means at your disposal.

    The fight for civil rights, which I remember some of, went on for 15 or more years. People died and were maimed and jailed. Eventually things got to a point where the government was basically shamed into action.

    The fight young men face today is easier. No one has to die for the most part, but everyone has to speak up and demand to be heard.

    The silent frustration is music to the government/corporate ear.

  27. kfg – jeez! – now I think a might haveta go have a looksee at dianetics, to see what you are alluding to. Yikes! It is in the nature of this meme thing to demand this – dammit!

    Hey – I gotta go attend to other matters now, maybe I will come back to this topic and have a better response for you later.

    1. @YaReally, I just got the RooshV fan mail asking for input on which of the 3 covers readers like best for his upcoming book “Free Speech Isn’t Free”.

      I can hardly wait to see the Cernovich love affair that follows.

  28. “I can hardly wait to see the Cernovich love affair that follows.”

    Not to mention Vox Day, so I won’t.

  29. @habd

    I agree with everything you said about kids. Great comment. Given the same parents there’s no way a successful pLTR or oLTR could be worse than a divorce… The only real question in my mind is if it increases the chances of losing custody in the eyes of the law if things go south. Or if it increases the probability of things going south. I have no idea about that… Monogamy or pLTR, get a lawyer to figure that shit out before you take the condom off.

    “And to get to a true abundance mindset you need to have had children… and I would say male children at that”

    Why do you say that? Wouldn’t a true abundance mindset be independent of any external factors including kids? If your argument is that it simply isn’t possible without having a son, honestly I think I might have to agree with you. I think I could be at peace with myself without a son, but it would be one of those deathbed regrets.

  30. Andy

    At a certain point you actually need abundance to truly have the mindset… A large family is evidence of that. And having 4 daughters and 1 son, I can say there is a dramatic difference… I think part of it is you are always giving your daughters away, and their kids will be raised by another man… in effect cuckolding your line to a degree. Whereas with a son, like I said it is a facsimile of you but to the power of you, as you can influence his development to a far greater degree… and so on and so on down the line.

    In any event, we won’t get back the patriarchy to any degree unless we take back the dinner table, the pew and the classroom…

  31. @Sentient

    “In the Monogamy / Non Monogamy non sequitur if the motivation is ultimately based on fear and that fear from scarcity… there will be issues on either path. If the choice is based on abundance however, neither is wrong.”

    There is a lot of truth in that summary. Spot on about the monogamy/non-monogamy. Imagine, you, Sentient, bridging that crest of the debate well?

    I have a 21 year old son. He’s doing well as far as I can see. He was well cared for. My dimes and his mother’s unconditional love (she’s a great nurse type) gave him a good start. He lives out of our nest on my dime well now and can at least get one current hot girlfriend–heheh, heritable monogamy gene). I set him straight about work he has cut out for him (his burden of performance) in order to get freedom from constraint (have abundance).

    I understand what you are saying about having children but only in retrospect. At 25 to 30 years old I don’t recall any urges to procreate. Just to fuck my hot wife, fall into her frame and children were a by product. No one gave me these damn memos when I was young.

    Side note,Sentient, the fallout from my field report has been excellent even though I have been 100% covert about my adventures. My wife asked me if I wanted to go to a major event this Sunday (I really didn’t) and I told her no, I have someone coming to clean my farm cabin that day. (HB7 maid is actually set to clean the 1250 sq. ft. cabin/clubhouse that day).

    The import of that field report, even if it was pedantic, was that I am entering into unconscious competence mastery of married man game.

  32. SJF – “I understand what you are saying about having children but only in retrospect. At 25 to 30 years old I don’t recall any urges to procreate. Just to fuck my hot wife, ”

    same here… which is why it bears saying… here is The Memo guys…

    PS – “n though I have been 100% covert about my adventures. My wife asked me if I wanted to go to a major event this Sunday (I really didn’t) and I told her no, I have someone coming to clean my farm cabin that day. ”

    why wouldn’t you say “no, I have Kathy (whatever her name is) coming by to clean the cabin then, have a great time at your thing”… and then let the hamster churn for a day or two? They are most comfortable when they are slightly uncomfortable after all…

    Cats not being dogs and all… Meow!

  33. “why wouldn’t you say “no, I have Kathy (whatever her name is) coming by to clean the cabin then, have a great time at your thing”… ”

    Because my sub-comms said that just as well. I implied that it was a maid without saying it. I was not overt in order to not be try hard or butt-hurt. I didn’t need to try hard (go overt). It will come out in due time (maid dread) and I’m trying to play three chess moves into the future. How the cabin clean-up actually goes matters, because it can be an ongoing thing.

    Plus I’m too busy with abundance and lack of constraint.

    I can tell by my wife’s sub-comms this morning–as she kiss-kino-ed me out the door–on the way to work this morning. (I’m ashamed to say that is a first).

    A new me is dawning. And my wife is having trouble drawing me into her Frame.

    In other words, I’m striding through the door over the threshold of conscious competence and into the realm of unconscious competence in learned applied game and it is working.

  34. “They are most comfortable when they are slightly uncomfortable after all…”

    This. Is important.

    I already read her subcomms after she returned from her Memorial Day weekend Mom’s weekend out with our son at his girlfriend’s parents place during her shark week. She was already slightly uncomfortable with my allegiance to her. Due to my Frame.

    When she returned her first words were a mild complaint after the usually stressful ride home. I smirked and very calmly replied while lazer-ing her with my eyes “I missed you too….”

    And I did not reward her with time and attention when it was not due.

    Opening day Country Club big gala party is tomorrow night. I’ll be farming tomorrow early, weightlifting hard at 3 PM and drinking club soda tomorrow night and gaming while everyone gets super drunk.

  35. Rollo,
    Concurrent with BPD, it would be interesting to see how many men find their significant others to unknowingly (or more often than not, un-admittedly) suffer from another DSM disorder,(especially as the relationship progresses marriage, children, housewife, etc): NPD…Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Check out this link to an eye opening article on the topic written by Dr Leon Seltzer from Nov 2013 Psychology Today.

  36. @Andy

    “And to get to a true abundance mindset you need to have had children… and I would say male children at that”

    Why do you say that? Wouldn’t a true abundance mindset be independent of any external factors including kids?

    yes, it is… abundance is abundance…lol… regardless of the details… it really is all in the attitude/mindset…

    for example, see those koans in my comment to @STRONGTEK. do you think those zen masters had an abundance mindset? of course they did… one of them was trying to show the other guy that ‘arguing’ over a BOWL to put rice in as their ‘big possession’ was NOT ‘enlightened’ (= not abundance mindset)…lol… and THAT guy couldn’t ‘just get it’ bc of his social conditioning… even though he wanted to and was trying…

    to the extent that your attitude is that ‘you don’t have ‘abundance’ ‘, that’s the FI/social conditioning pushing on you.

    but, if we are going to start arguing about THAT, it’s going to go the same way as the ‘looks matter’ discussion…bc it’s the exact same concept in play…

    at its base, ‘abundance mindset’ is the idea that you don’t need outside validation to ‘give’ you an emotional boost (for whatever value is in play – looks, muscles, money, kids, rice bowl/robe, etc…)… = 100% internal frame of reference… = my shirt is awesome BC I’M awesome and i’m wearing it… (regardless that it’s a raggedy ripped t shirt…)

    If your argument is that it simply isn’t possible without having a son, honestly I think I might have to agree with you. I think I could be at peace with myself without a son, but it would be one of those deathbed regrets.

    that ‘regret’ idea is still the ‘not abundance’ mindset… it’s gotten really interesting to me (in just the last week or so… bc of @STRONGTEK’s comments with the zen koans… and, @STRONGTEK, if you see this, thanks for that…i really appreciate the opportunity…) that this whole RP/game path i’m on really is tracking that zen enlightenment path almost one to one… like before i had my ‘start trek switchover’, i didn’t understand those zen koans at all… i just though they were stupid…lol…stupid, but intriguing…and had something to do with living in the moment/mindfulness, but i didn’t get them at all…

    now, after my flip, i CAN understand them… and the only difference in the details of the koans v reality today that i’m seeing/feeling is that the base cultural values in which the ‘enlightenment’ is taking place are different… the underlying dynamic/goal seems to be the same… shed your social conditioning and live ‘in the moment’ mindfully… which coincidentally is happening more for me when i’m ‘being social’ (pua/game)…lol…

    YaReally as a zen master!…Hai! Sensei!…lol…

    now, don’t get me wrong, kids are the best!… and having a son is awesome… although, tbh it sucks watching the FI pushing on him 24/7… it’s like i’m in a battle for his soul…bc i AM…lol… but like i note above, it takes time and consistency to change things there… and i’m still trying to turn around my relationship with my kids that was set during my pre-RP period… but even without kids, i would still be ‘actively’ trying to have the best day ever…

    and you should too…lol

    good luck!

  37. Pingback: The Talk |
  38. As someone in his late 30s who’s brushed with more than one crazy over the years, I believe guys who haven’t had first-hand experience don’t really know how bad it can get or how much a spending time with these girls can unhinge you from your natural flow.

    I got engaged to crazy once, ignored all the red flags, saw in her what I wanted to see. As soon as the ring went on the finger, a demon emerged. Extreme jealousy, petty arguments, withholding of affection, gaslighting, blaming, self-victimisation, subtle insults and put-downs, eventually escalating to physical violence, or attempts at it. Turned me into an emotional wreck doubting my own sanity. Got out while I could and thank God I didn’t knock her up. Bullet dodged. Nah, cruise missile dodged.

    If you run into these girls, BPDs, narcissists, whatever, be very careful. They are expert manipulators. They will be charming and the sexual chemistry will be exceptional. They will adore you today and destroy you tomorrow. There are many men who’ve lost everything in the end, family, money, access to kids, even their lives. Sleep with them at your own (great) risk.

    Common themes / red flags I’ve seen in these types of girls generally:
    – Hate men / subtle misandry / man-blaming
    – Troubled childhood
    – Absent/dead daddy, possibly because of psycho mother but this won’t be the official story
    – Low self-esteem deep down / dark void
    – will call themselves ‘crazy’ or refer to ‘being crazy sometimes’ early on (confession to ease their consciences)

    Be warned. Be safe. Be happy.

  39. @sandstorm

    In relation to the things you mention in “Common themes / red flags I’ve seen in these types of girls” , Joseph W. South’s book “Practical Female Psychology ” concisely gives practical advice on how to vet girls for these in PUA game.

    Joseph W. South (pseudonym) used to hang out on mASF forums back in 2007 and studied and learned and wrote about relationship game including poly LTRs like YaReally writes about. He wrote the book with Franco, who had a great follow up book on PUA.

    Here is a good podcast with him from Girlschase:

  40. Awesome post, Rollo.

    Despite the painful way that her true face was revealed to you, you were, as you say, fortunate to have got out.

    I have not been so lucky. Or rather, I have not been so conscious. You are so right when you talk about “kids with dynamite”. That is what I was.

    I spent years in the pickup community having amazing adventures and increasing my confidence and positivity as well as the quality of women I was meeting. I travelled a lot and built up a harem in every city I went. At the same time, I followed my dream, freeing myself of my regular job and seeing my artistic projects all the way through to completion.

    During this process I built up my willpower, positivity, health and general happiness.

    Until I met my dream girl. Beautiful, sexy, highly intelligent, and so in to me. I fell in love. I thought it was too good to be true, and I was right.

    For two years I blamed myself for her frequent episodes of psychotic rage. She even had an episode that lasted for 48 hours. She took a break to sleep and then continued. I gradually lost my willpower to do creative work. Then I lost my willpower to eat and live healthily.

    Then I got her pregnant. She had insisted on getting pregnant, and I had felt like I didn’t want to lose her and yeah I’d like to have a kid at some time, so why not now.

    Thinking back to the time before she got pregnant, there was one thing she said that pissed me off but that I didn’t think about so much. She said that she would get pregnant next year, if not with me then with someone else. WTF? If that wasn’t a red flag I don’t know what is. But I ignored it.

    It was only after a particularly bad episode of rage on her part that I started to read up on psychology online. I probably wouldn’t have done that if she wasn’t pregnant, but I started to realise the dangers of having a kid with someone like this.

    As I read, I discovered that she’s a textbook example of Borderline Personality Disorder.

    I found a psychiatrist who is specialised in personality disorders, and he confirmed the diagnosis from my description. He told me I have to rigorously enforce my boundaries, and that I should move out if the situation continues to be unbearable. We talked about how my health has deteriorated since I met her and he told me he knows some cases with very bad outcomes for people who stay with personality disordered individuals who refuse to seek help. But how can I move out if we have a kid together and she`s crazy? Isn’t that irresponsible towards the kid?

    She will give birth in a few months, and I feel like I’m fucked.

    I have started to simply leave as soon as she starts an episode of rage. To my surprise, it really works. When I come back, she’s always in a better mood and being nice to me.
    I have been enforcing this boundary so rigorously that she hasn’t had a period of rage for weeks – previously she would explode at least once every three days.

    However, now that I have swallowed the bitter pill of truth about her disorder, I see it in her micro behaviours: the way she subtly punishes me for being happy, the way she punishes me for saying something positive about anyone apart from her.

    I managed to stay positive for so long, because positivity was something I built up in myself over the course of years. But now after more than two years I have noticed my positivity breaking down at times. I have also noticed how I have unconsciously started adapting to her, for example by wiping the smile off my face before meeting her, and never saying anything good about another person, because my nerves are worn out and I prefer not to see her very subtly character-assassinate the person I’m praising, or throw a fit.

    Also I must admit that I have recently started a very negative behaviour. I have done it rarely, but still, it’s something I would never have done before: I started talking badly about other people, because I know she likes it, and that way I could get a little peace. Once I became fully conscious I was doing this, I stopped. But I still feel tempted.

    Despite this, I have started to have far more strength in the relationship than before. This is because I have realised that leaving her would be far less painful than staying, although I’m still in love with her. She has picked up on my willingness to leave, and her behaviour is far better now. She is really making an effort.

    But it’s not doing it for me, because I see the artificiality and calculation in her behaviour. It’s like you say, you can’t untake the red pill.

    One of the things I am most concerned about at the moment is some things she told me about before but I didn’t think about: the way she has taken revenge on people. She even still helps her ex whenever he asks for it, because she is waiting for a chance to destroy him. They split up twelve years ago.

    She has told me several times she would never use the child against me no matter what happens. What concerns me is that she told me this out of the blue. I never suggested she would. So how did the thought get in her head?

    In hindsight I’ve been super unconscious. I guess I was far more needy than I thought. However, I’m waking up at a drastic rate, even if it is a little late.

    If anyone can help me with advice I would sure appreciate it. It’s not so simple to run when there’s a kid on the way.

  41. I’ll never forget mine.

    I drove several states at the cost of too many dollars, whereupon she sat me down, looked me in the eyes – riveted me with her baby blues, if you can only dig that – and explained what BPD was and gave detailed examples of how she had mistreated people before. Included message logs and archived Facebook posts, even.

    I sat there eating it up, thinking to myself, “see, being a Really Nice Guy is paying off. I’m uniquely situated to help her confront her problems in ways she never has before.”

    Ya’ll can imagine how well that went.

  42. Yup! I sold $17,000.00 worth of collectibles to keep my ex happy. She was never happy, like a tornado of wild mood swings and verbal abuse. Meanwhile, she would accuse me of outlandish shit and hide my glasses in the middle of the night in fear that I was absconding. She LTR’d my (at the time) best friend and ran the same shenanigans on him.

Speak your mind

%d bloggers like this: