Good Girls, Bad Girls

goodbad

Culum Struan requoted a really great thought from an old commenter, AnonymousBosch, on Heartiste’s blog from about a year ago and I thought it might make for some good weekend discussions:


All I’m getting at is that every woman has an almost psychopathic longing to destroy any perception of being ‘the good girl’. It’s the most common complaint you’ll hear from women:

“It’s so hard being good.”

Women long to indulge their emotions enough to risk being swept away by them, and it’s this self-indulgence that makes them at risk of being self-destructive: they reach a point where they just want to tear everything down, including the Good Girl, and, most commonly, their beauty. An example is hacking off their hair when they have a breakup.

It’s in their songs, it’s in their literature, it’s in their movies. The social pressure to ‘behave’ drives them to distraction, even as they conform to it, meaning they’re internalizing this constant battle to be both good and bad: wanting the social approval, rewards and status for being good but desperately-craving social stigmatization to the degree of martyrdom for being bad.

Feminism, at it’s core, is basically: “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!”

This is why it’s beloved of ugly chicks who can’t sexually compete, and those with obvious Daddy Issues.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

If you’re stoic, she gets to indulge her emotions with a safety net that stops her from self-destructing, and she will adore you for it. This is the masculine – feminine relationship. She gets to be weak, knowing you’re her rock. She doesn’t want to lash out at stone that crumbles, whilst simultaneously wanting strong shelter to hide against.

Sexual degradation is part of the risk, and you temper this by always being in control of the situation. Never let her think she’s leading: or her desperation to prove her devotion to you will take her into weird, disgusting places that destroy her.

If you’ve got your player on, I guarantee you will hear some variation of this: “I’d never do this with any other guy, but you make me want to do this and I’m not sure why.”

This is their sexuality out of control by their furious emotional desire to be owned by you – they are swept away – and this is where you need to reign them in with a strong hand and be ‘Daddy’. Otherwise she’ll get stupid notions in her head that by being sexually-outlandish, she’ll be the whore women believe all guys want their wives to be, not realizing that we don’t want to think of the mother of our children blowing dogs and wearing our shit, (unless that’s really your thing).

This is what destroys women and makes the light go out in their eyes: when they degrade themselves for a man they value highly-enough in the hopes of locking him down enough only to eventually disgust him.

Sometimes, the degradation is a sex thing, where she blurts out that she’d blow a horse for you.

Sometimes, it’s physical: she wants you to see her with running mascara and her hair hacked off so you can see how ‘wounded’ and ‘vulnerable’ you’ve made her.

Sometimes it’s emotional: stories of ‘being raped’ or being abused by Exes, designed to fire you up with masculine protective instinct, but instead make you see her as damaged goods. She thinks she is showing you how much she longs for you with these socially-transgressive displays – because Social Status is female currency and power – so deliberately lowering herself in a man’s eyes is the ultimate submission for her – but all she is doing is pushing you away.

During sex: always lead, always control, always structure what is happening. She wants to serve a strong man: show her how to so she doesn’t go off on self-destructive tangents. As McQueen used to say, don’t call her ‘a’ whore, call her ‘your’ whore. Your eyes are your strength here: if she’s sucking your dick, tell her to look at you, so she has nowhere to hide. Call her your ‘good girl’ as she does it.

Basically, structure a performance of faux-degradation and sexual submissiveness she can enact it that makes her feel she’s served a strong man, that stops her crossing into actual degradation, where it starts emotionally-messing her up and leaving scars.

That being said, Millennial Girls seem to possess a capacity for self-loathing and self-destruction I’ve never seen in previous generations.

So, take what is happening in this thread: the transfer of money for sexual degradation. It’s the same core process: she’s telling herself it’s about the money, but it’s about submission before the masculine: the trappings of supreme social and financial power. It’s about thinking she’s high value enough to be submitting to Princes and Kings, so the leap to being crapped on or blowing a dog to prove she is ‘a worthy consort’ is a small one for them.

Obviously, it makes no sense to us, but women seem to be clueless as to what behaviour actually makes them attractive, and not repulsive, to men.”


I think one of the reasons AnonymousBosch finds Millennial girls to be more debased is that these girls are the first generation to be counted among the sum result of a preceding 4 generations of feminist ideologies. Likewise, Millennial men are the products of that same 4-5 generations of emasculation, feminization and the deliberate obfuscation of what masculinity “really is” for them. This deserves some explanation.

I’ve gone into the timelines and the evolution of how Hypergamy has been released from social restraints, wholesale, on western society in my Adaptations series of posts, but it’s a good review to understand what AnonymousBosch is relating here; We keep returning to Hypergamy and its regulation as a basis for an expanded vision of social structure, but it’s important to remember the behavioral prompts that women’s biology predisposes them to in that respect. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution we’ve had a systematic conditioning for, and institutionalization of, a social order that prioritizes women’s Hypergamy as the predominant one.

Unilaterally female-controlled hormonal birth control was certainly a catalyst for this social shift, but it’s important to remember that for the past 4 generations women have been raised and acculturated in a social environment not only rooted in the fempowerment narrative, but also one that encourages the excesses of the ‘bad girl’ side of Hypergamy that AnonymousBosch describes here. And as I mention in that post, the social engineering that’s led to feminine-primacy (as well as erasing the inconvenient aspects of conventional masculinity) all centers on optimizing women’s Hypergamy.

So we experience 2-3 generations of women who are conflicted between what that Fempowerment narrative has taught them they should value and the conventional, evolved biological impulses that predispose them to appreciating, enjoying and submitting to sexy male dominance. Instead of being confused and agonizing over the traditional (old order) ‘Good Girl’ social restrictions that buffered the more damaging consequences of Hypergamy, now women agonize over the conflict between what Fempowerment has conditioned them to believe they should be attracted to in an “equal partner” (Beta Bucks) and their visceral sexual drive for ‘bad’ Alpha dominance in a man they want to lose themselves with.

They’ll still lay claim to the ‘Good Girl’ social convention when it suits their purpose (i.e. during the Epiphany Phase) to affirm their decisions to prioritize a need for long term security – or to excuse past Alpha Fucks sexual needs – but the primary conflict is still the same, an internal war between the contradicting aspects of her sexual strategies and how they influence her life’s decisions and different phases of her maturity.

In her SMV Peak years, “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!” is the message she adopts insofar as it serves her sexual strategy’s immediate interests. The conflict comes when she needs to temper this sentiment with a need to settle into a motherhood role and compromise it just enough to present the appearance of being a prudent choice for long term commitment.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

When men first come to Red Pill awareness about the motivations of women’s sexual strategy it’s very easy to see their behaviors as being intentional or their after-the-fact rationalizations for them as being convenient and expedient in excusing them. There is a definite design to the psychological and social schema women will use to explain their actions, particularly when they’re anti-social, sexist and/or damaging to the men who bear the worst of them.

Not to say men should tolerate this, but it’s important for men to understand the underlying psychology and motivators for women’s behaviors. It would seem AnonymousBosch has embraced this understanding. Again, it’s easy to think you’ll just put your foot down and not tolerate women’s bad behaviors, but this ignores those same female-motivators, sacrifices a real understanding of them and attempts to replace learning to maneuver them with the misguided hope that women will be rational agents and change their behaviors because we say so.

Men of this mindset believe the same ‘equalist’ hope that women will cease to be the “most mature teenager in the house” because they rationally explained to them that they should ignore their base motivators (Hypergamy) and act reasonably. This doesn’t work for women, nor does it work for men when women attempt to convince men to adopt a feminist mindset based on exactly the same appeal to reason. The boner doesn’t lie, and neither does women’s sexually strategic behavior.

In an age of unfettered, socially and legally affirmed Hypergamy it’s counterproductive to expect any woman to self-police her own sexual strategies by appealing to her reason.

The good news, as outlined by AnonymousBosch, is that Red Pill awareness and internalized Game are the same buffering contingencies for Hypergamy as they’ve always been. The trick for men now is to reestablish and embrace a connection to the conventional masculinity that’s been systematically conditioned out of men for 2-3 generations. In fact, there’s no better evidence of this Blue Pill conditioning than the common sense of counterintuitive-ness of embracing a masculinity that puts a man into a position of exercising the dominance women need.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“saying that Rollo rates high on the traits that evolution wants to pass along is not derogating him, it is quite the opposite” Rollo and his wife chose decisively. “Evolution” did not chose one child and speak for more. He and she did. Mother nature and Darwinist thoughts on ideology don’t dictate sentient decisions for an individual. Individuals have birth control for better or for worse. Just because some of us choose precisely, doesn’t mean mother nature doesn’t have impulses that can be overridden. The red pill awareness is about understanding impulses. Game is about choices. Don’t take this as… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

How did that happen?

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

It may have happened to me as well. Tired while typing?

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“yes, he should hang out with her (social proof etc.). He should not treat her as a wingman (that is expect her to behave as a wingman should), but as a fashion accessory” I get that. Don’t expect any woman to advance a man’s sexual strategy. She won’t/can possibly abide by that. Use her as a pawn in his strategy. Be covert not overt in intentions. Thanks. The definition of a wingman is to advance his sexual strategy. As YaReally explained how the original infield guys advanced each other because they knew they were all out for each other because… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@rugby11

What is going on with you these days?

Are you doing well?

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“kfg’s picture shows the result of lifting and old age”

http://proteinpower.com/drmike/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/jacklalannefingertip.jpg

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Her smile sub-communicates:

comment image

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

Two words: Coolidge Effect. “The males of most mammalian species have a definite urge towards seeking variety in their in sexual partners. In the laboratory this has been called the ‘Coolidge Effect’ (Bermant, 1976). If a male rat is introduced to a female rat in a cage, a remarkably high copulation rate will be observed at first. Then, progressively, the male will tire of that particular female and, even thought there is no apparent change in her receptivity, he eventually reaches a point where he has little apparent libido. However, if the original female is then removed and a fresh… Read more »

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

I’m glad, thank you for your books, websites, interviews and booze, and now, from this point on, just reallocate the time spend lifting to fucking multiple women and reproducing

qsajaq
5 years ago

Re: lifting 1. When I was having problems as a twenty year old my doctor (an md but non traditional) gave me a script and told me dead on to start lifting weights. I didn’t appreciate the wisdom at the time, but I started to a few years later. It is preventative medicine. Basically, be in a room with other men, doing men things, and you will be a better man. Ronnie C – everyone wants to be a bodybuilder but no one wants to lift heavy ass weight. In my area, I see tons of young Indian boys and… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Re: lifting

I used to have pain in a shoulder when driving my vehicle and turning. The doctor prescribed some specific exercises, but they didn’t help. However, after lifting with 5 sets instead of 2 and lighter weights, the pain was no longer present.

Hope this helps someone.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

SJF No man, or woman, looks at an 11 and then does not look at the guy and think… something. And that something is never initially negative. It may morph into jealousy or envy etc. But those are just mechanisms for dealing with losing. So on this basis alone he should be seen with her. Recall my story of the chinese model. Hottest girl in the room wherever she went. She was out that night at the reception as the guest of her friend who was a married 67 yo guy. Lived next door to her. No sex. She really… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I think I found a good answer to my question on having the relatively hot girl be an associate at times for my buddy. It was in an old Heartiste essay. The thing is my buddy has very good acting skills, good game skills and very good discipline to not have his thirst show. He can easily laugh about things, very easily and never gets caught in the K-R stages short of Acceptance. https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/when-men-and-women-can-be-friends/ …no man wants to be a cute girl’s emotional tampon. fulfilling her emotional needs while having his physical needs denied is a one way street to… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ Sentient

Thanks.

I posted after I read your thoughts. I don’t recall exactly the chinese girl FR. My buddy is 20 years older than her and shorter.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

lol. That sounded stupid. I posted the Heartiste link before I read yours.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Something to pay attention to.
https://www.trp.red/p/satyricon/243

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago


I am helping a buddy of mine run a 100 miler run. I’m stoked its a 36 hr time frame and it helps me keep a high level of testosterone. Been working out and laughing more. Doing a lot self work (lots of navy seal reading). Mark divine mostly.
Been learning about incest and the emotional social consequences of that trauma. Leading my rugby team… Are leadership is not up to par with reality.

Fascinated by Frame and the burden of performance and how to always give the best of yourself.

God is Laughing
5 years ago

On dating advice from women, what they really want: where in the world could they say they want to be dominated by an alpha? Imagine a guy talking about wanting nothing but toe curling sex with nothing but HB8+s?

Her fempowerment goes out the window. Her beta bux strategy goes out the window. Sure she may talk about it with her friends but she is never going to let potential future betas hear a whisper of it from her lips. Also, she needs to be careful with her feminist cred and not be seen as alpha worshipping/greedy.

stuffinbox
5 years ago

Re,Lifting I am hearing allot about lifting and being attractive to women,and looked up to by men,there is allot of truth to this but I believe this misses the point of working out and staying in shape. Men have the physical, hormones and mentality for hard work and competition.When they don’t excercise their abilities they become strawberrys that are pink soft and bruise easily. The feeling of going that extra mile or lifting that extra 5lbs,being pumped up with hot blood coursing through your veins is a sort of self competition that makes a man feel alive and accomplished. I… Read more »

Morpheus
5 years ago
Reply to  stuffinbox

Men have the physical, hormones and mentality for hard work and competition.When they don’t excercise their abilities they become strawberrys that are pink soft and bruise easily.
The feeling of going that extra mile or lifting that extra 5lbs,being pumped up with hot blood coursing through your veins is a sort of self competition that makes a man feel alive and accomplished.

Word. This was just released the other day

https://youtu.be/aNHdXP42pP0

stuffinbox
5 years ago

At any rate I’m with you fellers.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYXFSbLotSU&w=560&h=315%5D

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

The feeling of going that extra mile or lifting that extra 5lbs,being pumped up with hot blood coursing through your veins is a sort of self competition that makes a man feel alive and accomplished.

this is why I lift. I don’t lift for them, I lift for me.

sorcerygod
5 years ago

I wrote a story on my website to see if a girl I was seeing could take a bitter, sarcastic sense of humor. She could — just barely. This, in case you’re curious, is what drove a submissive girl to the edge:

https://sorcerygod.wordpress.com/2016/05/08/raping-oprah-winfrey-to-death/

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

SJF Here is part two of that story That is a fantastic story… Girls really do just want to have fun… the problem is that gets tiring for guys… Like I don’t even think I could date any girl regularly anymore, spend time with them etc. Last night I met up with the 25 YO Chinese model again. She came out again as guest of a 67 YO dude for arm candy. I was just crossing the street to the party, an hour and a half late (it was almost over by then) and I see her and him say… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@SJF That’s just a “Pivot”, yo. Classic oldschool tech. Use girls to get other girls. Some things he’ll have to watch out for are: 1) most guys who take a hot girl they haven’t banged out end up spending more time with her and developing one-itis for her because most guys are in scarcity lol 2) if it’s just the two of them, he’ll have to understand that a lot of girls/guys will assume they’re “together”/married/a couple/dating/etc and he’ll have to pro-actively make it clear that they’re not together. If they were a group of 3+ it would look less… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@Rollo lol those nerds need to hit a bar and watch how little being jacked actually matters. Like Tyler said way back in his super cocky early days: “These scientists who write that shit DON’T GET LAID. And if they do it’s not because of their “theories” and research that tells them to mirror her body language and release their pheromones. How do you think these guys in their ivory towers would even wrap their heads around the shit I’m doing, watching me break all their rules and still getting laid. The shit I’m teaching you will be studied academically… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . .they want overall functional muscle/athleticism VS just being big.” Lifting is not the control on body mass. I can lift and get smaller. I can also lift and become a faster endurance cyclist and runner. The difference between a leg press machine and a bicycle is that on the leg press machine the weight oscillates. On a bicycle it moves linearly. If you follow an endurance program while lifting, you will develop endurance. If you follow a mass building program on a bicycle, you will develop mass. Understand the various stimuli and responses of the body and… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Sentient and YaReally

Thanks. Thanks, that provides a better framework. And will work for him.

And he has the ability to avoid those three pitfalls well. He has plenty of options (I won’t get into detail to ensure anonymity) and is very well put together and is good at game. The limiting factor being the availability of quality women, but that is not a hurdle in his mind.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Born in 1959. Older than I am.

He makes a point about lifting that I have tried to make here a dozens times concerning all aspects of life.

Your Will.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNHdXP42pP0&w=854&h=480%5D

I would not be surprised is he dies in the gym one day. After open heart surgery. he was told he couldn’t lift anymore.

He didn’t listen.

He was supposed to be dead a decade of more, already.

How do you make people understand the power of true will?

Never figured that out yet.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“How do you make people understand the power of true will?”

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Addendum: When I was born it wasn’t announced by satellite broadcast, not because it wasn’t a momentous occasion, but because . . . there weren’t any satellites. When I was 2, the prognosis was that I had 0% chance of making it past 5. I was born a dead child mewling. I have now beaten that by more than an order of magnitude and am not only still going, but stronger and more robust than ever. My mother once told me that I did it by sheer act of will. She could see it in my eyes. I didn’t want… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

kfg

THIS is why I have immense respect for you.

bluepillprofessor
5 years ago

@Art Toadster: I agree with almost all your exegesis (except the part about sex = marriage which we can discuss at another time). I think that it is a reasonable hypothesis to suggest that hypergamy is directly from “The curse of Eve” and not an evolved trait of women. It would explain quite a bit. Rollo (and most) claim this instinct is somehow an evolved characteristic of our species that got us where we are. I disagree. At best Hypergamy was a characteristic that it was harnessed (for perhaps the first time) at the time of agriculture. In which case… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Softek May 7th, 2016 at 10:33 pm You are totally misappropriating the the Coolidge Effect as the root of your problems. It is most definitely not in my opinion. What is your problem is that your girlfriend is totally sucking all your energy instead of energizing you. It behooves you to understand this principle, because in human relationships this happens all the time. It is not just simply Law #10 of the 48 laws. It goes much deeper than that. If you have the time, you might want to read Toru Sato’s “The Ever-Transcending Spirit”* regarding this issue of stealing… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@YaReally May 8th, 2016 at 11:28 am …really I just listen to my instincts and my instincts say go get variety and don’t waste my time in relationships that I’m not 100% satisfied in especially if I’m not having kids yet. I think most guys who pretend they don’t have urges for other women are usually in denial…put a busload of their personal dream 10/10s in front of them begging to suck their dick and like 99% of men won’t happily resist. They may resist but it’ll be because of social conditioning, guilt, shame, fear of failure, fear of success,… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Stealing Energy (enervating) and Giving Energy in LTR’s was discussed in one of the most epic replies to a Married Red Pill post.

Must read for married with young kids. And everyone else that doesn’t understand the concept of stealing energy and how to avoid it.

(Paging Andy…..don’t let your wife get tired buddy)

https://www.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4fe7pk/how_to_handle_a_wife_that_is_always_sick_andor/

( Avoid what the original poster did and see the suggestions by Jacktenofhearts who did a masterful job of explaining the butthurt guy who sucked all the energy out of his wife but wanted sex and how she reacted. )

walawala
walawala
5 years ago

@YaReally/Sentient An update. The plate who was giving me the ultimatum, realized she was self-sabotaging so opened me a few days ago with some funny line. I replied and immediately sexualized it. We bantered. A few days after that we met up and I banged her brains out. She left then started again with the angry comments about something she claims I said. I replied simply with “lol”. So clearly some Cluster B traits or just some weirdness of some kind trying to get me to chase. Another plate I was supposed to meet up with I thought had blown… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

This original post and comments (plus outside reading…always be reading for wisdom) has also given me a lot of insight into LTR game. “Security” takes a lot of forms. Security in LTR game means providing what women want from men. They want: Leadership Dominance Security (economic, physical, emotional), Entertainment Commitment. Have four. Five is not essential. Commitment is the least needed because soft dread is essential for her to desire you. The same part of the female brain that is set to process “being in love” desire for a man is the same part of the brain that is the… Read more »

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
5 years ago

Just skimmed. Props to wallawalla for bringing the thread back to topic.

RT writes a great post and the discussion spins off into the merits of lifting. lol
sorry ladies and feministas. Being a dude is awesome.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@kfg May 8th, 2016 at 12:44 pm

The hair just stood up on the back of my neck and I said God Dammit, one day I want my son to grow be like KFG and Blaximus.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

I think…no, I’m sure that YaReally gets that not all men are beset by the denial monster regarding sexual urges. Right Ya? Lol. Just gonna try and explain my thoughts. ” I think most guys who pretend they don’t have urges for other women are usually in denial…put a busload of their personal dream 10/10s in front of them begging to suck their dick and like 99% of men won’t happily resist.” Depends on how ” urges ” is defined. In both of my marriages, the urge to track down and fuck strange pussy was greatly diminished. I was never… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Excellent words Blaximus. And for those less excellent than Blaximus….. Its one thing to espouse in the manosphere that man is best dominant and women are best submissive. Submissiveness annoys the hell out of the FI woman’s directives. The Hivemind swarms at the thought of it. Sometimes it enrages them with anger. How dare you fucking mysoginistic, patriarchal mother-fuckers! But there is a flip side to this. When a man is performing his duties in a LTR. When he is to be the best that he can be in terms of leadership, dominance, (economic, physical and emotional) security as well… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Also, I agree about giving Energy. I want my wife, and entire family, to see me as if I were fucking Santa when I walk through the door. I want that kind of excitement.

That means I can’t be a whiny, complaining bitch ( I save that for TRM…lol ). I’m the Rock, the foundation. As I go, so do they.

Burden excepted.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

:

When I was 5 or 6 I wanted to grow up to be Rikki-Tikki-Tavi.
And if I ever produce my own line of bicycles I fancy branding it Cher Ami.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Not Safe for Work videos:

Megan Draper is being a bitch, but Don Draper keeps frame and remains fleezerly dominant and she submits.

Submissive woman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZXGf0Kft7k

Doesn’t sound legit for today’s women

(No offense to Forge the Sky, but that vid reminded me of what his current interest was doing covertly: “I don’t want “people” to think you’re getting this. You don’t get to have this….go sit over there….all you get to do is watch….” )

Megan serenades Don Draper on his birthday

Supportive woman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXoILGnHnvM

Sounds legit for today’s woman.

Words matter.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

KFG:

“When I was 5 or 6 I wanted to grow up to be Rikki-Tikki-Tavi.”

I’m glad you got over that. Otherwise I doubt you would have reached the lofty plateau I envision you reside on with your Frame, MPO and strength of character.

Nor would you have energized the commentariat and readers of TRM as well as you do with your aphorisms if you were stuck at the level of being a mongoose cartoon character. .

Exactly as I described, KFG donates energy to the blog, rather than steals energy.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Blax

” I want my wife, and entire family, to see me as if I were fucking Santa when I walk through the door. ”

For real? Yikes!

comment image

SJF – ahh… the Megan Scene…. this was like a decade of my marriage… shit test to combustion stage… angry/make up sex… took me a while to clue in.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Sentient

” For real? Yikes!”

Lol. I’m talking about excitement wise.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

“women will withhold sex if you are not performing your job in giving your LTR woman what she wants.”

A big big part of giving her what she wants though SJF is the knowledge that she is competing with other women… and she thinks she is winning…

There is a base level of discomfort required in the female brain that men simply cannot fathom.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Blax ” I’m talking about excitement wise.”

hey man… you be you. Not judging…

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“I’m glad you got over that. Otherwise I doubt you would have reached the lofty plateau I envision you reside on with your Frame, MPO and strength of character.” You try following a cobra down its own hole, never mind coming out again. That scene made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It’s the greatest story ever told and I didn’t even find out until a few years later that it originally went under the title Beowulf. And now the prayer scene in the same story (The 13th Warrior) makes the hair on the back of… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ Sentient

Interesting.

Your decade of your marriage was probably her falling down on her 50% of the bargain. To be supportive.

My decade of the fog in my marriage was my falling down on my 90% of the bargain. To make her feel safe in her Hypergamy by me providing:

Leadership
Dominance
Security (economic, physical, emotional),
Entertainment

Yep. It took me a you a while to clue in.

I’m glad we both got the the final memo/clue.

Thank gods for the manosphere. And Rollo.

Ajax Parallax
Ajax Parallax
5 years ago

@Rollo Tomassi wrote: “Instead of being confused and agonizing over the traditional (old order) ‘Good Girl’ social restrictions that buffered the more damaging consequences of Hypergamy, now women agonize over the conflict between what Fempowerment has conditioned them to believe they should be attracted to in an “equal partner” (Beta Bucks) and their visceral sexual drive for ‘bad’ Alpha dominance in a man they want to lose themselves with. They’ll still lay claim to the ‘Good Girl’ social convention when it suits their purpose (i.e. during the Epiphany Phase) to affirm their decisions to prioritize a need for long term… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Wala

“Also understanding that girls want the full range of emotions and not being afraid of those emotions is now my next stage in adopting game.”

YES!!!! Do not be afraid that she is having a negative feeling… this is what most of them want… to get this hit and then feel better.

It’s OK that she is upset, “stews in her juices”, and acts a bitch…

IF you are non reactive (i.e. not supplicating).

This is what it means to be the rock. FORGE are you listening?

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

SJF

“Your decade of your marriage was probably her falling down on her 50% of the bargain. To be supportive.”

Nah… it’s always on us… For me, instead of recognizing the bullshit games as the kabuki theater it is, I tried to logically parse it out…

Never worked.. always blew up… histrionics… then mad sex.

Goading for alpha…

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Do not be afraid that she is having a negative feeling… this is what most of them want… to get this hit and then feel better.”

This is how they get to feel better. Men hit a heavy bag for a while, women use men as an emotional heavy bag.

And when both get tuckered out, they feel better.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

The body is part of the performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaOZjjmjd7w
The women has to accept how good that performance is.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

KFG – spot on…

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Sentient “There is a base level of discomfort required in the female brain that men simply cannot fathom.” “YES!!!! Do not be afraid that she is having a negative feeling… this is what most of them want… to get this hit and then feel better. It’s OK that she is upset, “stews in her juices”, and acts a bitch… IF you are non reactive (i.e. not supplicating).” Would you believe me if I told you that I just found out about that on May 5th, 2016? Even though my buddy uses the Get Smart ringtone for my cellphone calls? No… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

https://therationalmale.com/2016/05/06/good-girls-bad-girls/#comment-154930

And then I had to put in some earplugs to drown out the crickets that started chirping about my post.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

SJF LOL… yeah I believe you… That’s why I keep saying over and over and over “cats are NOT dogs”, because the female way of thinking is completely alien to guys, especially spergy guys on boards like this and CH… This is a fundamental thing any guy needs to understand.. He will never “get” a women by using logic and rational thought. It’s literally impossible. A cat is never going to fetch a stick and bring it back to you… But will reliably chase something you pull away from it – no matter how cool and composed they seem at… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

SJF – LOL at your “crickets” story. I’ve been there a hundred times… I’ve come to understand my wife is HSP – a Highly Sensitive Person… Sounds like your wife may be as well….

Shit after the Sandy Hook shooting, 1,000 miles away… she was beside herself for a few days…

You might look into it, to at least confirm YOU are not crazy.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ SJF Very insightful, thank you. A lot to take in. Took Step One tonight, just taking the night for myself. The sheer amount of TIME that is going into this relationship is crippling me. Let alone all the other dynamics and my own confusion. @ Blax, YaReally, rest Lots to think about. Comment section has been a gold mine today. As usual I appreciate all the advice and reading everyone’s stories, and it’s been extremely cathartic for me. As well as giving me a lot of new things to think about that I didn’t think of before. My confusion… Read more »

walawala
walawala
5 years ago

@softek before identifying what you want…you may want to clarify in your head exactly what you don’t want. This year I resolved to focus on me…what I didn’t want was more stress and hassles that often the wilted from me over in vesting on people and women who didn’t deliver what I wanted. I focused on a few things I wanted for myself …one was inner confidence. Not just acting cool but being cool. I looked at the parts of my life and he people in those parts and tried to figure what I could shed. I reframed some of… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Don’t ask yourself what you want. (Because you don’t know). Tell yourself what you want and how you are going to accomplish that in a three act play.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Sentient “I’ve come to understand my wife is HSP – a Highly Sensitive Person… Sounds like your wife may be as well….” Actually, she is not. She is HSE (high self esteem) and is very stoic tough most of the time. I can’t recall her every really doing what she did that day. But she likes to emotionally roam like all girls. Party girl–ENFP in MBTI parlance. (You know– a true free spirit… the life of the party, but less interested in the sheer excitement and pleasure of the moment than they are in enjoying the social and emotional connections… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Softek From Steven Pressfield’s “Do the work” http://www.amazon.com/Do-Work-Overcome-Resistance-Your/dp/1936891379 Unformatted because it is Too Long Do Read. ….Or scroll. (@Forge the Sky, this may also resonate with you because of your literary writing background and your current game scenario) “Start Before You’re Ready Don’t prepare. Begin. Remember, our enemy is not lack of preparation; it’s not the difficulty of the project or the state of the marketplace or the emptiness of our bank account. The enemy is Resistance. The enemy is our chattering brain, which, if we give it so much as a nanosecond, will start producing excuses, alibis, transparent self-justifications,… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I enjoyed reading reading that again. That was just the beginning of that book. He also has two Middles and and End.

@ Softek

Do the Work, Bro. You made it through triage. It is time to get healthy.

SJB
SJB
5 years ago

@Blaximus, @Morpheus: Good stuff. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

newlyaloof
5 years ago

During sex: always lead, always control, always structure what is happening. She wants to serve a strong man: show her how to so she doesn’t go off on self-destructive tangents. As McQueen used to say, don’t call her ‘a’ whore, call her ‘your’ whore. Your eyes are your strength here: if she’s sucking your dick, tell her to look at you….” About 4 months ago I remember rubbing my wife’s pussy (if we’re both tired, we’ll just finish each other off this way and call it a night). I can usually make her orgasm within a minute. I told her,… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

I begrudgingly finished her off and got up and left the room without busting a nut knowing I had to find a side piece.

Man this is a great Chandler-esque line to start a new chapter with…

http://41.media.tumblr.com/bf4fbe40555375c7a9bb861622021e0a/tumblr_nh67ry9yaX1s2wio8o1_r1_1280.jpg

Good luck!

newlyaloof
5 years ago

@Sentient, as Rollo says, sometimes you can’t repair a relationship – too many years of beta and a wife can’t see the new you through it. See, I was getting her off well, but she was in her own zone with her eyes squinted (probably thinking of another dude), but when I asked her to actually look at me, she wasn’t having it. Fucked up how even a good looking dude’s face is forever ruined by years of beta. Just this weekend, I said to her, “You realize you haven’t come up to me and passionately kissed me in seven… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@ya “Most of my buddies are more into the crossfit type stuff because they want overall functional muscle/athleticism VS just being big. ” normal weightlifing + xfit is money. if you go to a box, you can just get the unlimited plan and then roll in there whenever to just lift weights on your own time and go to classes when you want. “I know the more I work out the less it’ll hurt but I think it’ll be a struggle for a while before I normalize it as a part of my weekly/daily routine” ya dude, everyone who says… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Newly LOL man… but that’s just a garden variety shit test… “She said, “Because your toothbrush is always dirty with shaved facial hair.” I wasn’t angry, but I told her point blank, “keep it up… you’re working you’re way out of a job” I’ve said that and it’s amazing how quickly they respond to being challenged. That’s the issue… we get too lazy and don’t challenge them enough.. because it’s work and a hassle. part of that also is you know what you are going to get in the end. I’ve had sex with my wife thousands of times now… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

Basically, structure a performance of faux-degradation and sexual submissiveness she can enact it that makes her feel she’s served a strong man,

It works. But the next part – don’t leave scars – is not quite on. You should leave scars. Internal ones. So she hurts (and is attracted) every time she is with you.

The beatings will continue until you are totally submissive all the time.

In other words the beatings (small if she is mostly submissive) will go on forever. Dad worked that one with Mom. In public. Public humiliation is good for leaving scars.

fleezer
fleezer
5 years ago

regarding “the couch” interesting to see how Rollo’s writing has evolved over 4ish years. , “People experiencing genuine desire for one another don’t care about externalities. Nothing else exists to them but the object of their passion (and consummating it); there is no dirty laundry, no stain on a carpet, no neighbors who may hear them fucking, there is only them.” agree. my wife and I have this thing where she always blows me outside when we visit a state park. it started when we were first dating and continues to this day. a few weeks ago we got caught… Read more »

newlyaloof
5 years ago

@Sentient, I hear you, but you should have seen the look on her face. Basically like a kid getting caught trying to use emotion to take cookie crumbs out of the logical jar. I was blown away at how utterly stupid that excuse was to the point of laughing out loud.

It’s like in that moment, she finally knew I was ready to pull the trigger on another woman. I am.

YaReally
5 years ago

@SJF @Blaximus “I think most guys who pretend they don’t have urges for other women are usually in denial” “Your statement applies to most men, but it doesn’t have to be that way. It is not that way for me.” “It has nothing to do with fear ( I fear nothing ) or shame or conditioning or social pressure” Then you guys aren’t the guys I’m referring to. @walawala She’s not Cluster-B. I told you what she’s doing and why and how your actions have caused it. This back and forth she’s doing is standard behavior for the situation you’ve… Read more »

M Simon
5 years ago

newlyaloof May 9th, 2016 at 10:02 am

Never “finally be ready” – always be ready.

newlyaloof
5 years ago

@M Simon, haha. My dick’s always ready.

M Simon
5 years ago

YaReally – May 9th, 2016 at 10:12 am

Nailed it. Attitude is 99% of game.

M Simon
5 years ago

newlyaloof – May 9th, 2016 at 10:20 am Leaving with your hand? A ready dick is nothing. Betas and Gammas have those. Do you have a ready to leave attitude? Always? Since you are new and I’ve been away a bit – my first GF taught me the rudiments of game in ’62. “Never apologize”, she said. It was a start. I like flirting with other women in public. Keeps her on her toes. And if she complains? “You saw what happened. You can be replaced.” I’m 71. Was getting IOIs from a couple of 16 yos the other day.… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

If a man tooka dump truck full of hormones and sat on his ass he would be weak and grow a set of D cups. Hard work still must be done. If it were a matter of exogenous hormones, every man would be big and strong. Part of gaining strength is indeed mental. The majority of the benefit is solely in the strength itself. Having lost at least a third of the strength I’d had all through my 30’s and early 40’s, I am still much stronger than the majority of men my age. No more 500 pound bench presses.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . the Harvard “muscles are attractive” survey crew . . .”

Daffodils are attractive. That doesn’t mean that anybody wants to fuck them. Rollo consistently makes the distinction between attraction and desire.

And I have consistently pointed out that the in your face (as it were) flaw of surveys based on selecting pictures is that they only determine which pictures women find attractive, not men, never mind which men they select to fuck.

Noting that attraction is an advantage is not at all the same thing as claiming that attraction is the whole ball game.

scray
scray
5 years ago

@ya “Yup. If I take a jacked dude and make him watch a bunch of sad movies and then send him out to a bar where he’s not comfortable full of people he’s not comfortable around and wearing something he’s not comfortable in, so his subcomms are all fucked up, he’ll get fuck and all for results” yeah but being buff makes your state hard to fuck with. your internal chemistry is much diff, too. esp if you’re lifting and you’re doing something for cardio/functionality, like xfit. you FEEL very vigorous and ‘on.’ if i was sitting there and bawling… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Muscles are attractive. It is true. Lol.

Attraction is necessary to foster desire.

Of course, if you’re a boring stick in the mud, you will lose the muscle advantage.

I have been painfully skinny, I have been jacked, I have been slightly overweight. I fucked in each stage. It was demonstrably easier while jacked. Hands down.

Buuuuttttt… I didn’t always choose bars and clubs to meet women.. That might be a different dynamic.

Muscles: bring’em if ya got ’em.

scray
scray
5 years ago

@blax “If a man tooka dump truck full of hormones and sat on his ass he would be weak and grow a set of D cups.” wrong. you can sit on your ass and take testosterone and gain several pounds of quality lean muscle. and a LOT more lean muscle than a dude busting his ass at the gym natty. “The men treated with testosterone but no exercise had an increase of 3.2 kg in fat-free mass, and those in the placebo-plus-exercise group had an increase of 1.9 kg. ” http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101 “If it were a matter of exogenous hormones, every… Read more »

fleezer
fleezer
5 years ago

“How do they explain guys like Tyler and other skinny non-muscular PUAs consistently taking girls home when there are other better looking more jacked and richer dudes right beside them that the girls could choose instead?” my guess would be they don’t care. most people don’t care. mystery had a show on tv, right? no one watched. julian bombed that interview. no one cared. except puas. pulling 1000 really high-quality, stable, valuable, low n girls from nightclubs and bars might make a pua feel good, but in the grand scheme of things that number is statistically insignificant based on the… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ scray

There are thousands of dudes benching 500 all over the country. It’s not uncommon.

Hell, in high school, most linemen on the football team could bench 400, and they were kids basically.

Idk about competitive lifting. I know about lifting.

Lol, check out what the guys are lifting on YouTube and fletcher’s sites.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Current world record is 1102 lbs. 500 is less than half that.

For 14 year old girls it’s 310.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Scray “the skinny-fat dude ceteris paribus probably won’t be able to recover his state as quickly when it’s broken. like if someone tools him on his shirt, that will be that, and his shirt is just this external thing….so once other ppl start saying his shirt sucks, he loses his confidence in it.” This I don’t see… at all. The guys with the strongest frames I’ve encountered actually have been queers…. little skinny flaming homo’s. LOL On the other hand, my roided out 6’2″ 220lb super aggro college roommate… killed with girls most of the time… a running joke was… Read more »

scray
scray
5 years ago

@blax “There are thousands of dudes benching 500 all over the country. It’s not uncommon.” k well here are the standards, again… https://rawpowerliftingontario.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/raw-powerlifting-classification-standards.pdf but ya, tons of dudes around the country are taking steroids, so….it’s possible that lots of hormone-assisted gym rats are putting up some good numbers… FYI Ahhhhnold -admitted steroid user- D-bol-breakfast-of-champions 6’2 230 Schwarzenegger’s BEST BENCH WAS 500 lbs. ‘Lol, check out what the guys are lifting on YouTube and fletcher’s sites.’ You mean check out what a ton of dudes on hormones can do? lol CT FLETCHER IS A HORMONE MONKEY CT Fletcher’s dimensions are much… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Fleezer – what does “AWALT” mean to you?

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