Good Girls, Bad Girls

goodbad

Culum Struan requoted a really great thought from an old commenter, AnonymousBosch, on Heartiste’s blog from about a year ago and I thought it might make for some good weekend discussions:


All I’m getting at is that every woman has an almost psychopathic longing to destroy any perception of being ‘the good girl’. It’s the most common complaint you’ll hear from women:

“It’s so hard being good.”

Women long to indulge their emotions enough to risk being swept away by them, and it’s this self-indulgence that makes them at risk of being self-destructive: they reach a point where they just want to tear everything down, including the Good Girl, and, most commonly, their beauty. An example is hacking off their hair when they have a breakup.

It’s in their songs, it’s in their literature, it’s in their movies. The social pressure to ‘behave’ drives them to distraction, even as they conform to it, meaning they’re internalizing this constant battle to be both good and bad: wanting the social approval, rewards and status for being good but desperately-craving social stigmatization to the degree of martyrdom for being bad.

Feminism, at it’s core, is basically: “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!”

This is why it’s beloved of ugly chicks who can’t sexually compete, and those with obvious Daddy Issues.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

If you’re stoic, she gets to indulge her emotions with a safety net that stops her from self-destructing, and she will adore you for it. This is the masculine – feminine relationship. She gets to be weak, knowing you’re her rock. She doesn’t want to lash out at stone that crumbles, whilst simultaneously wanting strong shelter to hide against.

Sexual degradation is part of the risk, and you temper this by always being in control of the situation. Never let her think she’s leading: or her desperation to prove her devotion to you will take her into weird, disgusting places that destroy her.

If you’ve got your player on, I guarantee you will hear some variation of this: “I’d never do this with any other guy, but you make me want to do this and I’m not sure why.”

This is their sexuality out of control by their furious emotional desire to be owned by you – they are swept away – and this is where you need to reign them in with a strong hand and be ‘Daddy’. Otherwise she’ll get stupid notions in her head that by being sexually-outlandish, she’ll be the whore women believe all guys want their wives to be, not realizing that we don’t want to think of the mother of our children blowing dogs and wearing our shit, (unless that’s really your thing).

This is what destroys women and makes the light go out in their eyes: when they degrade themselves for a man they value highly-enough in the hopes of locking him down enough only to eventually disgust him.

Sometimes, the degradation is a sex thing, where she blurts out that she’d blow a horse for you.

Sometimes, it’s physical: she wants you to see her with running mascara and her hair hacked off so you can see how ‘wounded’ and ‘vulnerable’ you’ve made her.

Sometimes it’s emotional: stories of ‘being raped’ or being abused by Exes, designed to fire you up with masculine protective instinct, but instead make you see her as damaged goods. She thinks she is showing you how much she longs for you with these socially-transgressive displays – because Social Status is female currency and power – so deliberately lowering herself in a man’s eyes is the ultimate submission for her – but all she is doing is pushing you away.

During sex: always lead, always control, always structure what is happening. She wants to serve a strong man: show her how to so she doesn’t go off on self-destructive tangents. As McQueen used to say, don’t call her ‘a’ whore, call her ‘your’ whore. Your eyes are your strength here: if she’s sucking your dick, tell her to look at you, so she has nowhere to hide. Call her your ‘good girl’ as she does it.

Basically, structure a performance of faux-degradation and sexual submissiveness she can enact it that makes her feel she’s served a strong man, that stops her crossing into actual degradation, where it starts emotionally-messing her up and leaving scars.

That being said, Millennial Girls seem to possess a capacity for self-loathing and self-destruction I’ve never seen in previous generations.

So, take what is happening in this thread: the transfer of money for sexual degradation. It’s the same core process: she’s telling herself it’s about the money, but it’s about submission before the masculine: the trappings of supreme social and financial power. It’s about thinking she’s high value enough to be submitting to Princes and Kings, so the leap to being crapped on or blowing a dog to prove she is ‘a worthy consort’ is a small one for them.

Obviously, it makes no sense to us, but women seem to be clueless as to what behaviour actually makes them attractive, and not repulsive, to men.”


I think one of the reasons AnonymousBosch finds Millennial girls to be more debased is that these girls are the first generation to be counted among the sum result of a preceding 4 generations of feminist ideologies. Likewise, Millennial men are the products of that same 4-5 generations of emasculation, feminization and the deliberate obfuscation of what masculinity “really is” for them. This deserves some explanation.

I’ve gone into the timelines and the evolution of how Hypergamy has been released from social restraints, wholesale, on western society in my Adaptations series of posts, but it’s a good review to understand what AnonymousBosch is relating here; We keep returning to Hypergamy and its regulation as a basis for an expanded vision of social structure, but it’s important to remember the behavioral prompts that women’s biology predisposes them to in that respect. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution we’ve had a systematic conditioning for, and institutionalization of, a social order that prioritizes women’s Hypergamy as the predominant one.

Unilaterally female-controlled hormonal birth control was certainly a catalyst for this social shift, but it’s important to remember that for the past 4 generations women have been raised and acculturated in a social environment not only rooted in the fempowerment narrative, but also one that encourages the excesses of the ‘bad girl’ side of Hypergamy that AnonymousBosch describes here. And as I mention in that post, the social engineering that’s led to feminine-primacy (as well as erasing the inconvenient aspects of conventional masculinity) all centers on optimizing women’s Hypergamy.

So we experience 2-3 generations of women who are conflicted between what that Fempowerment narrative has taught them they should value and the conventional, evolved biological impulses that predispose them to appreciating, enjoying and submitting to sexy male dominance. Instead of being confused and agonizing over the traditional (old order) ‘Good Girl’ social restrictions that buffered the more damaging consequences of Hypergamy, now women agonize over the conflict between what Fempowerment has conditioned them to believe they should be attracted to in an “equal partner” (Beta Bucks) and their visceral sexual drive for ‘bad’ Alpha dominance in a man they want to lose themselves with.

They’ll still lay claim to the ‘Good Girl’ social convention when it suits their purpose (i.e. during the Epiphany Phase) to affirm their decisions to prioritize a need for long term security – or to excuse past Alpha Fucks sexual needs – but the primary conflict is still the same, an internal war between the contradicting aspects of her sexual strategies and how they influence her life’s decisions and different phases of her maturity.

In her SMV Peak years, “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!” is the message she adopts insofar as it serves her sexual strategy’s immediate interests. The conflict comes when she needs to temper this sentiment with a need to settle into a motherhood role and compromise it just enough to present the appearance of being a prudent choice for long term commitment.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

When men first come to Red Pill awareness about the motivations of women’s sexual strategy it’s very easy to see their behaviors as being intentional or their after-the-fact rationalizations for them as being convenient and expedient in excusing them. There is a definite design to the psychological and social schema women will use to explain their actions, particularly when they’re anti-social, sexist and/or damaging to the men who bear the worst of them.

Not to say men should tolerate this, but it’s important for men to understand the underlying psychology and motivators for women’s behaviors. It would seem AnonymousBosch has embraced this understanding. Again, it’s easy to think you’ll just put your foot down and not tolerate women’s bad behaviors, but this ignores those same female-motivators, sacrifices a real understanding of them and attempts to replace learning to maneuver them with the misguided hope that women will be rational agents and change their behaviors because we say so.

Men of this mindset believe the same ‘equalist’ hope that women will cease to be the “most mature teenager in the house” because they rationally explained to them that they should ignore their base motivators (Hypergamy) and act reasonably. This doesn’t work for women, nor does it work for men when women attempt to convince men to adopt a feminist mindset based on exactly the same appeal to reason. The boner doesn’t lie, and neither does women’s sexually strategic behavior.

In an age of unfettered, socially and legally affirmed Hypergamy it’s counterproductive to expect any woman to self-police her own sexual strategies by appealing to her reason.

The good news, as outlined by AnonymousBosch, is that Red Pill awareness and internalized Game are the same buffering contingencies for Hypergamy as they’ve always been. The trick for men now is to reestablish and embrace a connection to the conventional masculinity that’s been systematically conditioned out of men for 2-3 generations. In fact, there’s no better evidence of this Blue Pill conditioning than the common sense of counterintuitive-ness of embracing a masculinity that puts a man into a position of exercising the dominance women need.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

820 comments on “Good Girls, Bad Girls

  1. “saying that Rollo rates high on the traits that evolution wants to pass along is not derogating him, it is quite the opposite”

    Rollo and his wife chose decisively. “Evolution” did not chose one child and speak for more. He and she did.

    Mother nature and Darwinist thoughts on ideology don’t dictate sentient decisions for an individual. Individuals have birth control for better or for worse.

    Just because some of us choose precisely, doesn’t mean mother nature doesn’t have impulses that can be overridden.

    The red pill awareness is about understanding impulses. Game is about choices.

    Don’t take this as a literal interpretation about what I just said, but theoretically you have this IDEOCRACY:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unoMMru4-c0

    But I don’t think I have the right to explain this about him. He has Real Power. To suggest other wise disavows his blog essays.

    I guess I’m just judgmental and logical. It is about the human brain having choices more so than the animal brain.

    1. Rollo and his wife chose decisively. “Evolution” did not chose one child and speak for more. He and she did.

      You should be glad I ignored evolution’s “demands”. Any more than one kid and I’d never have lived the experiences I have, nor the time to write what I do that men might better their lives by it.

  2. “yes, he should hang out with her (social proof etc.). He should not treat her as a wingman (that is expect her to behave as a wingman should), but as a fashion accessory”

    I get that. Don’t expect any woman to advance a man’s sexual strategy. She won’t/can possibly abide by that.

    Use her as a pawn in his strategy. Be covert not overt in intentions.

    Thanks.

    The definition of a wingman is to advance his sexual strategy. As YaReally explained how the original infield guys advanced each other because they knew they were all out for each other because of their defects so they strived for it.

    There is no expectation for her to advance his strategy, so he cannot logically negotiate with her to do so.

  3. Two words: Coolidge Effect.

    “The males of most mammalian species have a definite urge towards seeking variety in their in sexual partners. In the laboratory this has been called the ‘Coolidge Effect’ (Bermant, 1976). If a male rat is introduced to a female rat in a cage, a remarkably high copulation rate will be observed at first. Then, progressively, the male will tire of that particular female and, even thought there is no apparent change in her receptivity, he eventually reaches a point where he has little apparent libido. However, if the original female is then removed and a fresh one supplied, the male is immediately restored to his former vigour and enthusiasm.”

    “Bermant (1976) has given an amusing, if somewhat apochryphal, account of the origin of the term ‘Coolidge Effect.’ The story goes that President and Mrs Coolidge were visiting a government farm in Kentucky one day and after arrival were taken off on separate tours. When Mrs Coolidge passed the chicken pens she paused to ask her guide how often the rooster could be expected to perform his duty. ‘Dozens of times a day’ was her guide’s reply. She was most impressed by this and said, ‘Please tell that to the President.’ When the President was duly informed of the rooster’s performance he was initially dumbfounded. Then a thought occurred to him. ‘Was this with the same hen each time?’ he inquired. ‘Oh no, Mr President, a different one each time’ was his host’s reply. The President nodded slowly, smiled and said, ‘Tell that to Mrs Coolidge!’”

    http://www.heretical.com/wilson/coolidge.html

    I can see other girls when I’m out, or think about hooking up with other girls, and immediately get turned on. Turn it back to thinking about having more sex with this girl I’ve been seeing, though, and I get into a situation like not having an erection for days at a time.

    It’s crazy. It feels like my sex drive is completely dead until I entertain the idea of fucking some other hot girl, and then it’s back to feeling like old times.

    i.e., back to how I felt when all this got kicked off with this girl. The sex was INSANE at first, and kept up for a few months, and I was super into it. Could not have been more into it.

    But then it started to taper off slowly, and it’s only tapered off because I’VE lost interest, not her. A lot of times she’ll start talking dirty and how much she wants to fuck me, and all that, and I’ll just make up some excuse like I’m tired or something. Or I’ll be like “Yeah, we should have sex more,” and then change the subject or something.

    I’m not even going on porn or jacking off. Days will go by with NOTHING and it just feels like my sex drive is completely dead. I thought I’d build up some horniness by not jacking off for a while but it just seems to stagnate instead of building up. In a way it feels like my libido is completely dead, but then sometimes I think about fucking some other girl I haven’t fucked yet and it’s like boom — there it is.

    Granted, not every time. Sometimes lately I feel like I don’t give a fuck about sex at all. Could be some depression coming back but I also think the Coolidge Effect is kicking in hard for me.

    I started out extremely attracted to her. Her looks haven’t changed at all. But that has nothing to do with it. My friend corroborated this effect. Back in his heyday he got with some drop dead gorgeous women. For just about all of them, after a few months he just started losing interest. He has dozens and dozens of stories like this.

    Way before I got laid I had the mind that it wasn’t about how hot a woman was: it was the variety. Being able to experience new women. You could be with the “hottest” most drop dead gorgeous woman in the world and you’d get sick of her eventually.

    Artisinal Toad’s stuff hits home with me. I think he’s dead on with the women competing with each other thing. It’s also very natural for men to want to fuck as many different women as they possibly can.

    So in monogamy you have two problems: maximally restricting the most natural male sexual instinct (fuck as many different women as possible), and taking away the only incentive women have to be on their best behavior (competition with other women).

    This is a point of cognitive dissonance for me because of the ‘morality’ of nuclear families with monogamous relationships. It’s the most ‘normal’ and safest thing, and what’s completely accepted in our society. Anything else makes me feel like an outcast.

    But at the end of the day it doesn’t come down to saving society, or figuring out what’s best for everyone else, or what everyone else should do.

    It’s what you, yourself want to do. Forget everyone else. That simplifies things a lot.

    I’m doing my best to figure this shit out for myself. But my body will help me even if my brain won’t. My dick not getting hard and having zero interest in sex is not something I’ve chosen. It’s just my body’s reaction to the situation I’m in.

  4. I’m glad, thank you for your books, websites, interviews and booze, and now, from this point on, just reallocate the time spend lifting to fucking multiple women and reproducing

  5. Re: lifting

    1. When I was having problems as a twenty year old my doctor (an md but non traditional) gave me a script and told me dead on to start lifting weights. I didn’t appreciate the wisdom at the time, but I started to a few years later. It is preventative medicine. Basically, be in a room with other men, doing men things, and you will be a better man.

    Ronnie C – everyone wants to be a bodybuilder but no one wants to lift heavy ass weight.

    In my area, I see tons of young Indian boys and men lifting. They go with their friends and their extended families.

  6. Re: lifting

    I used to have pain in a shoulder when driving my vehicle and turning. The doctor prescribed some specific exercises, but they didn’t help. However, after lifting with 5 sets instead of 2 and lighter weights, the pain was no longer present.

    Hope this helps someone.

  7. SJF

    No man, or woman, looks at an 11 and then does not look at the guy and think… something.

    And that something is never initially negative. It may morph into jealousy or envy etc. But those are just mechanisms for dealing with losing.

    So on this basis alone he should be seen with her.

    Recall my story of the chinese model. Hottest girl in the room wherever she went. She was out that night at the reception as the guest of her friend who was a married 67 yo guy. Lived next door to her. No sex. She really thought he was helping her network and meet people. He knew what he was doing.

    Over the next 2 nights we went out a bunch of places, and it was the same. All eyes on her, then at me, then back on her. And you could see people doing the math… Wtf? Who is that guy? Why is she with him…? He’s 20+ years older? She’s taller than him?

    Was fun. I was in solid frame and expecting these little reactions… So I felt like the King Pimp.

    Wish I banged her though… LOL

  8. I think I found a good answer to my question on having the relatively hot girl be an associate at times for my buddy. It was in an old Heartiste essay.
    The thing is my buddy has very good acting skills, good game skills and very good discipline to not have his thirst show. He can easily laugh about things, very easily and never gets caught in the K-R stages short of Acceptance.

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/when-men-and-women-can-be-friends/

    …no man wants to be a cute girl’s emotional tampon. fulfilling her emotional needs while having his physical needs denied is a one way street to bitterness. women with real sympathy for men’s sexual needs would not put a lovelorn niceguy through the anguishing ringer of platonic friendship. but most women (and men) don’t possess that kind of empathy and selflessness for the opposite sex. women simply get too much benefit from having what pickup artists call “orbiters” feeding their egos by doting on them and listening to them drone about their badboy BFs without having to put out.

    male-female friendships only work when neither are physically attracted to the other, and they *partially* work when 1) the woman is attracted to the man but he isn’t attracted to her or 2) he is attracted to her but getting lots of action from other women.

    in fact, the best course to follow for the man who wants his choice in women is to cultivate lots of hot female friends who can act as “pivots” and “social proof” for picking up other women. this will be difficult to manage if he’s in the midst of a dry spell because his unquenched lust will envelop him like a repellent shroud and make the normal to-and-fro of friendship building an excruciating ordeal, mostly for him but in time for her, too. it is much easier to be friends with attractive women when the man is in a perpetual state of sexual satiation.

    He definitely has the skills to pull this off without lying to himself or anyone else. If I could read his mind he can definitely advise himself what Roissy wrote in the last two sentences here:

    One way attraction, player to girl

    There is only one way a single man can be friends with a woman he wants to bang and that’s when his balls are so drained from fucking other women that he feels no testicular pressure to act on his desire. You’ll notice that a typical sexually satisfied alpha has lots of hot girl acquaintances he doesn’t bother gaming because the effort required is not worth the very small marginal increase in pleasure or risk of losing the girls as social proof and as friends. This is really the ideal short-term situation to be in for a man — swimming in pussy and therefore able to tolerate and even enjoy the friendship of unavailable hot girls without being overwhelmed by lust to corrupt their friendship status with intimate jackhammering. But in the long-term, the underlying male animal lust for a hot girl buddy must resolve itself, and even the most well-fed man will devour a filet mignon if it’s put on a plate in front of him every day. My advice: It’s best to take hot girl buddies in small doses. Like for two hours on a Friday night in a bar where you can leverage their hot friendship to build your harem with new recruits.

  9. @ Sentient

    Thanks.

    I posted after I read your thoughts. I don’t recall exactly the chinese girl FR. My buddy is 20 years older than her and shorter.

  10. @SJF
    I am helping a buddy of mine run a 100 miler run. I’m stoked its a 36 hr time frame and it helps me keep a high level of testosterone. Been working out and laughing more. Doing a lot self work (lots of navy seal reading). Mark divine mostly.
    Been learning about incest and the emotional social consequences of that trauma. Leading my rugby team… Are leadership is not up to par with reality.

    Fascinated by Frame and the burden of performance and how to always give the best of yourself.

  11. On dating advice from women, what they really want: where in the world could they say they want to be dominated by an alpha? Imagine a guy talking about wanting nothing but toe curling sex with nothing but HB8+s?

    Her fempowerment goes out the window. Her beta bux strategy goes out the window. Sure she may talk about it with her friends but she is never going to let potential future betas hear a whisper of it from her lips. Also, she needs to be careful with her feminist cred and not be seen as alpha worshipping/greedy.

  12. Re,Lifting

    I am hearing allot about lifting and being attractive to women,and looked up to by men,there is allot of truth to this but I believe this misses the point of working out and staying in shape.

    Men have the physical, hormones and mentality for hard work and competition.When they don’t excercise their abilities they become strawberrys that are pink soft and bruise easily.
    The feeling of going that extra mile or lifting that extra 5lbs,being pumped up with hot blood coursing through your veins is a sort of self competition that makes a man feel alive and accomplished.
    I don’t have to be the strongest man on site,though I often am,it is more about being able to do more than I did a month ago,or with some of the more strenuos tasks being able to do them at all at 55yo.

    Three things are major fat burners testosterone,muscle and rest.We burn fat while at rest,but we don’t burn it without testosterone and muscle.
    As to lifting style and tecnique if you want to be big do more reps with
    lighter weight,if you want to build strength do fewer reps and keep adding weight.Don’t forget to warm up and cool down gradualy,an improper warmup is what damages joints,an improper cool down leaves the muscle full of acid.

    For this cat it is more about the feeling of being alive,heart pumping hot blood melting the cholesterol,getting something done,feeling accomplished.

    When training for the arduous physical [3mi 45lbs <45min] I load a pack with 45 lbs dry sackrete get up early and do 4mi twice a week at 9k elevation.Some of the guys do this on a treadmill,they do good on the test,but there is something to be said for the full body workout.

    For most public servants,military,firefighter,police there is some sort of physical test annually.There is some competition and pride involved in these,really it is just good to be in shape enough to outlast a firefight carry someone to safety etc.

    If getting laid easier is a byproduct of feeling good so be it this is great.

    I don't like being called an asshole,rather I consider myself more of a prick,and women are assholes that prefer to be called bitches.

    1. Men have the physical, hormones and mentality for hard work and competition.When they don’t excercise their abilities they become strawberrys that are pink soft and bruise easily.
      The feeling of going that extra mile or lifting that extra 5lbs,being pumped up with hot blood coursing through your veins is a sort of self competition that makes a man feel alive and accomplished.

      Word. This was just released the other day

      https://youtu.be/aNHdXP42pP0

  13. The feeling of going that extra mile or lifting that extra 5lbs,being pumped up with hot blood coursing through your veins is a sort of self competition that makes a man feel alive and accomplished.

    this is why I lift. I don’t lift for them, I lift for me.

  14. SJF

    Here is part two of that story

    That is a fantastic story… Girls really do just want to have fun… the problem is that gets tiring for guys… Like I don’t even think I could date any girl regularly anymore, spend time with them etc.

    Last night I met up with the 25 YO Chinese model again. She came out again as guest of a 67 YO dude for arm candy. I was just crossing the street to the party, an hour and a half late (it was almost over by then) and I see her and him say goodbye and she heads towards me, not seeing me, looking at her phone so I bump into her as we pass and tell her to watch where she is going… she looks up and sees it’s me and we start bantering again (she ran out on me the last night in my hotel). But damn man the negging this girl needs is very exhausting… but she loves it… smiling laughing I’m “so mean”, “bad man” etc. and coming back for more.

    So we are walking along, I’m hungry so I say I don’t believe she is really Chinese… we need to go to Chinatown for Chinese food… she bitching at this she hates Chinese food LOL. we grab an Uber (the fuck – now they have shared rides, was a hot young chick in the backseat!) and I am in the middle seat between the model and the hot young girl… so I start gaming the young girl, flirting with her etc. Chinese girl is putting on a fake mad face, and when the young girl asks me what I do I tell her I teach English as a second language and the Chinese girl is a slow student (which cracks both of them up). get to our stop, and go in.

    every person again is looking at this girl – then me – then the girl again. Very funny and fun to observe. It is shocking how horribly ugly most of the Chinese women are in comparison, she really is rare in her culture. So we eat, I make her order in chinese and then serve me. She makes my plate, pours my tea, pours my beer when I want refills etc. It’s nice but damn still needing to neg her and neg her… she wants to tell secrets… tells me she isn’t wearing any panties. we play this game a bit. More negs though… I’m getting bored with it even though she is a treasure to look at. super fashionable tight dress (I tell her she can only have 5 grains of rice because she is fat LOL – she loves it…). I pay (was a cheap place) and she says she wants to take me to this rooftop view bar, her favorite place.

    So we roll over to that. again all eyes are on her, she is fucking taller than me in heels LOL I make her stand barefoot an the street next to me and damn she is every inch of 5’10… I tell her to order my drink ($15 bucks a pop) and she gets the same, she buys… we are looking at the full moon and she is giddy with the beauty of the moon and the lights of the city.. a little girl all lit up, smiling and happy.

    We talk about her boyfriends… was a virgin until 23. Only been with 4 guys in her life… Super super strict mother and father apparently a model in China at that (shows me he pics – beautiful, she is very proud of her stomach…).

    Married now to a guy in US who is from China, but she doesn’t love him… Married him in 10 days to make her old boyfriend in china jealous (he cheated on her multiple times LOL) 5 months ago and now trying to figure out how to divorce. They have separate rooms and the guy is (understandably) very very pissed!Talk about 50 shades (thanks Wala) which for the record she thought was very fake… and moving to sexualize the conversation… make some progress… but damn it’s still hard. she says a few times she won’t sleep with me and giggles… Heard that before.

    Kino is going hand on her knee, hand on hand, lower back, we are sitting next to each other on low couch. But the real HOOK is missing. yeah she is beutiful, but with the never ending banter and negging, it’s wearing me out without proper physical escalation… So we split, walk he back to her car, pull her in to kiss hershe stays close but turns her head and says no she won’t kiss me. I tell her I know she wants to… she’s coy but doesn’t proceed, I push her gently back… tell her take care… she says wait wants to give me her whatsapp and email… I should call her blah blah. She writes out on a piece of paper and puts it in my hand… some final neg and we part.. I stroll off into the night scratching my head…?

    So she passes a ton of compliance tests, buys me stuff two nights in a row, invests, takes me to her favorite spot, responds to sexualized talk and some kino going but no real spark is lit,,, Thoughts gents? I wonder if my weariness with the constant banter and limited subjects and negging offset any physical attraction that was being built?

    anyhow – a nice memory all the same it is good feeling to have super hot women around and you are completely chill, just watching all the dynamics unfold, looking to pick your spots.

    She looked a lot like this girl, but with a sweet girlish expression…

    https://31.media.tumblr.com/d9fd38f8629e128f21f3ce204ced59ff/tumblr_mpmnl3pzN31r6h0yoo1_500.gif

    Bunch of good comments from the boys Wala, Habd, Culum etc…

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/09/29/women-are-happy-communicating-in-the-language-of-children/#comment-711860

  15. @SJF
    That’s just a “Pivot”, yo. Classic oldschool tech. Use girls to get other girls. Some things he’ll have to watch out for are:

    1) most guys who take a hot girl they haven’t banged out end up spending more time with her and developing one-itis for her because most guys are in scarcity lol

    2) if it’s just the two of them, he’ll have to understand that a lot of girls/guys will assume they’re “together”/married/a couple/dating/etc and he’ll have to pro-actively make it clear that they’re not together. If they were a group of 3+ it would look less like a couple out on a date, but a man and woman together, especially an old man, may get him some initial resistance if the girls assume he’s with her and just trying to cheat on her. It may also get some curiousity like they may WANT to know if they’re together so there’s pros and cons to it. Just be aware of that dynamic and be prepared for the shit-test.

    3) personally I think women are shitty wingmen entirely and rarely use them lol They all think they’re amazing but they have NO idea what’s attractive to women and often their instinctive jealousy kicks in to sabotage things if it’s going well. Pivots generally aren’t expected to do the heavy work (unless you find an awesome one, like Tyler with one of his girlfriends who was pulling 3-somes with him all the time and would go compliment girls and kino them etc when he told her to lol), but the preselection boost helps. You can open pretty much any set with a hot girl on your arm and she can open and do anything.

    @Softek
    “A lot of times she’ll start talking dirty and how much she wants to fuck me, and all that, and I’ll just make up some excuse like I’m tired or something. Or I’ll be like “Yeah, we should have sex more,” and then change the subject or something.”

    What exactly are you getting out of this relationship if you’re only fucking like once every few weeks? What are you getting that you couldn’t get from other girls?

    “Artisinal Toad’s stuff hits home with me. I think he’s dead on with the women competing with each other thing”

    Like Mystery said back in the day: a woman often doesn’t realize she wants you until she feels the jealousy of another woman wanting you. Successful long-term monogamy generally involves passive dread game (like Rollo working with bottle models, or a guy who has good subcomms etc).

    “For just about all of them, after a few months he just started losing interest. He has dozens and dozens of stories like this.”

    Ya this happens to me. According to pearl-clutchers it’s probably because I’m a crazed porn/sex addict who’s brain has been warped…really I just listen to my instincts and my instincts say go get variety and don’t waste my time in relationships that I’m not 100% satisfied in especially if I’m not having kids yet. I think most guys who pretend they don’t have urges for other women are usually in denial…put a busload of their personal dream 10/10s in front of them begging to suck their dick and like 99% of men won’t happily resist. They may resist but it’ll be because of social conditioning, guilt, shame, fear of failure, fear of success, etc, and not because their dick doesn’t go “holy shit yes I want to be inside those” lol

    I lost interest in my first real GF and went through similar “what if I can’t find another one I’m almost 30 bla bla” like you (pretty much every guy does with his first girl) but on top of it she was a sweetheart so I had extra guilt in the form of “why DON’T I want her??? She’s great, everyone would think I was an idiot for breaking up with her to go chase poon (and they did think that and told me that lol) why can’t I just be attracted to her like I was at the start???” But the reality was I was way off my purpose and had let myself slide in general (before I met her I had been out there tearing shit up and reaching my social potential and taking care of myself and had friends etc, once we got serious I stopped going out ’cause I didn’t want to be a jerk or hurt her, I wasn’t socializing, wasn’t flirting, let myself gain weight and dress slobby because she said she liked it (because no other girl would take me if I let myself go bad enough lol)) and I was unhappy with myself and what I had let myself become in the relationship and I was turning her down for sex etc Eventually I just snapped and ended it ’cause I just wasn’t happy with myself or my life.

    Reality is I wasn’t ready to settle down and she wasn’t the right one for me, she had a lot of flaws that I couldn’t see when I was inside the relationship but are very clear to me now years later looking back. I didn’t even know myself at that point or what I wanted/needed in relationships, I was still figuring my own shit out.

    I felt a thousand times better in a later relationship with a girl who was cool with me going out with my buddies thurs/fri/sat and hooking up with other girls etc on my own time. Felt free as a bird with no guilt hanging over my head or anything, kept my social life up and hooked up with some girls on the side and generally had a much better experience. I couldn’t go back to monogamy. “I could be happy being poor if I had never been rich” and all that.

    “Anything else makes me feel like an outcast.”

    I felt similar stuff but I decided “ok fuck it then, I’ll just be an outcast” and embraced it, took the ball and ran with it and now here I am lol Most of the people I’ve met who play it safe and follow society’s guidelines to avoid being an outcast are miserable when you get them drunk and really talk about their life. Meanwhile I skip around with a smile on my face. There are lonely nights, but you have to take the lows with the highs and the highs are worth it. I could have a lonely month where shit isn’t panning out or whatever, but the next month I could have two girls competing over which one I have to bang that night while a 3rd one txts me and my buddy txts me to come out and meet new girls lol Pickup will put you through the most extreme highs and lows and you have to embrace that rollercoaster ride.

    “My dick not getting hard and having zero interest in sex is not something I’ve chosen. It’s just my body’s reaction to the situation I’m in.”

    Your body isn’t happy with the choices you’re making. You have misalignment in your thoughts words and actions. When you get those 3 things aligned, you’ll have a lot less mental baggage hanging over your dick lol

    @Rollo
    Most of my buddies are more into the crossfit type stuff because they want overall functional muscle/athleticism VS just being big. Gotta have the cardio to fuck those <25yos lol I'm doing a bit of lifting/excercise but just because I'm getting older and don't want health problems. I hate every second of it and the pain afterward though lol My priority exercise-wise is anything that'll help me fuck, more than getting big. I have super jacked buddies and it just seems like a lot of effort to get that big without much payoff when we can all get the same results infield and we have fatass buddies that still fuck hotties.

    None of us really make fun of eachother or anything though, some guys like lifting some like athletics some guys wanna lose weight some wanna get jacked, everyone hands out advice to eachother and it seems pretty normalized for guys in the nightlife scene to do some kind of workout these days.

    For me part of it is that I don't want to lift when I have to fuck a lot lol Like some guys get energized from the pain afterwards but I just feel shitty and don't want to go sarge or have a girl over to fuck when I'm in that pain (even giving me massage etc, just stay away and let me curl up into a ball in pain lol). So it's like I'll work out Sunday or Monday and then be sore for a couple days and then it's Wednesday and I'm like "ehhh, I have a girl coming over tonight, I don't want to be tired and sore for that…and then tomorrow is sarging time" so I end up not working out till Sunday or Monday again.

    Like this stuff: "The feeling of going that extra mile or lifting that extra 5lbs,being pumped up with hot blood coursing through your veins is a sort of self competition that makes a man feel alive and accomplished." means nothing to me lol I just roll my eyes at it.

    I know the more I work out the less it'll hurt but I think it'll be a struggle for a while before I normalize it as a part of my weekly/daily routine. And I have to reframe it in my head because I have these negative thoughts attached to it about how much I don't enjoy it etc Same as pickup, I just have to start telling myself I love it and reframing the pain as positive and tell myself stuff like "oh ya hot blood is coursing through my veins rarrr!!!!" etc when I work out even if it sounds retarded to me, until my brain believes it lol It'll take a bit but I'll probably be better for it when I'm an old man.

    @betathrowaway
    "And what do you say to a plate when she says she can’t hang out because she has a bf now? I’ve said, “great, happy for you”, which is not untrue, but also seems supplicative and asexual."

    No that's fine. I usually make it a little more dramatic with a speech about wanting her to be happy and knowing I can't provide that and I'm glad she's found a guy that can be her perfect match etc. They pretty much always come back after they break up (or just when they get bored in the relationship) because I didn't get butthurt reactive or anything and showed that I don't really NEED her, VS her guy who's going to become more and more supplicative and needy the more they date. Also saying stuff like he sounds perfect for you bla bla makes her focus on his flaws more just like if I said your best friend was a loser you would defend him and if I said your best friend is the perfect friend you'd be like "well I mean, he's not PERFECT, like there was this one time–" and focus on bad memories.

    If I'm done with the girl (getting bored or she's turned out to be too much drama or she's approaching 30 etc) like I legitimately hope she finds a guy and moves on, I won't mention the perfect stuff 'cause that's kind of a sabotage lol

    The key though is radio silence. She HAS a boyfriend now, so she doesn't get any more of your time. Often you'll find they'll get a BF and still try to text you about shit happening in their life or their problems or like "you always know how to make me laugh :)" when they've had a bad day or have long conversations about whatever or sooth them when they're scared/anxious etc and sort of keep you in their life along with the other guy because subconsciously that's optimal strategy for them and feminism has convinced them you should WANT to orbit her just because she has a pussy that shoots rainbows.

    But if she wants all that value you give her, then she can come back and fuck you. If she chooses some other guy then that guy gets to try to take care of all that shit (which he'll fail at doing most of the time lol) So you say your "I'm glad you found someone, I'm legitimately happy for you and hope it works out…but save my number just incase 😉 lol" (which tells her she can contact you in the future) and then she gets pretty much radio silence from there.

  16. @Rollo
    lol those nerds need to hit a bar and watch how little being jacked actually matters.

    Like Tyler said way back in his super cocky early days: “These scientists who write that shit DON’T GET LAID. And if they do it’s not because of their “theories” and research that tells them to mirror her body language and release their pheromones. How do you think these guys in their ivory towers would even wrap their heads around the shit I’m doing, watching me break all their rules and still getting laid. The shit I’m teaching you will be studied academically down the road.”

    It seems like a huge waste of time to even do those studies when they could head to a bar with any average looking PUA and see that they’re looking at the wrong channels entirely. It’s amazing that I can post endless infield of skinny PUAs pulling girls in front of better looking dudes and people will still cling to these studies.

    Like literally I would love to email those researchers of those papers some PUA infield and see what they say. I would just love to know how they would process us stunting all over their theories out there…would they change their research? Would they admit they’re wrong? Would they just brush it off and refuse to acknowledge what they’re seeing in front of them because it doesn’t fit their armchair theories?

    Would they devise a new experiment where they take a bunch of married women and ask them “ok which of you would blow this skinny little guy in a bar bathroom when your husband is at home txting you asking if you’re having fun on your girls’ night out?” and then conclude “girls are monogamous and faithful because every girl who answered our survey said she would NEVER do that!” That’s not even science lol

    No girl is buying a shirtless Tyler calendar, but it just doesn’t matter infield lol Girls are attracted to the emotions you make them feel. When you make a study where all those emotions are removed, ya, girls will select muscles, but did we all become women who just passively take what we can get? What’s next, we hunt by just sitting around hoping a buffalo comes over and hops on our campfire for us? Does that buffalo want to get eaten? No. Does it matter? Nope.

  17. ” . . .they want overall functional muscle/athleticism VS just being big.”

    Lifting is not the control on body mass. I can lift and get smaller.

    I can also lift and become a faster endurance cyclist and runner. The difference between a leg press machine and a bicycle is that on the leg press machine the weight oscillates. On a bicycle it moves linearly.

    If you follow an endurance program while lifting, you will develop endurance. If you follow a mass building program on a bicycle, you will develop mass.

    Understand the various stimuli and responses of the body and you can get it to do what you want within biological limits, using the equipment you prefer (even elastic bands), or no equipment at all.

  18. @Sentient and YaReally

    Thanks. Thanks, that provides a better framework. And will work for him.

    And he has the ability to avoid those three pitfalls well. He has plenty of options (I won’t get into detail to ensure anonymity) and is very well put together and is good at game. The limiting factor being the availability of quality women, but that is not a hurdle in his mind.

  19. Born in 1959. Older than I am.

    He makes a point about lifting that I have tried to make here a dozens times concerning all aspects of life.

    Your Will.
    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNHdXP42pP0&w=854&h=480%5D

    I would not be surprised is he dies in the gym one day. After open heart surgery. he was told he couldn’t lift anymore.

    He didn’t listen.

    He was supposed to be dead a decade of more, already.

    How do you make people understand the power of true will?

    Never figured that out yet.

  20. Addendum:

    When I was born it wasn’t announced by satellite broadcast, not because it wasn’t a momentous occasion, but because . . . there weren’t any satellites.

    When I was 2, the prognosis was that I had 0% chance of making it past 5. I was born a dead child mewling.

    I have now beaten that by more than an order of magnitude and am not only still going, but stronger and more robust than ever. My mother once told me that I did it by sheer act of will. She could see it in my eyes. I didn’t want to die yet, so damn it all I just screwed up everything I had and stayed alive.

    I am so dyslexic that the doctors for whom I was an early test subject said that I was neurologically incapable of reading, at yet I read before kindergarten and at college level while still in grade school. All the doctors could say was that I just plain wanted to read so badly I found some alternate way of getting it done.

    If you want to get it done, then bend down and pull that motherfuckin’ wagon out of the mud.

  21. @Art Toadster: I agree with almost all your exegesis (except the part about sex = marriage which we can discuss at another time). I think that it is a reasonable hypothesis to suggest that hypergamy is directly from “The curse of Eve” and not an evolved trait of women. It would explain quite a bit. Rollo (and most) claim this instinct is somehow an evolved characteristic of our species that got us where we are. I disagree. At best Hypergamy was a characteristic that it was harnessed (for perhaps the first time) at the time of agriculture. In which case the Genesis story is not far off if a bit inverted. Harnessing and controlling hypergamy (call it a “curse” or a social change, the effect is the same) was what led to incentivising certain behaviors by providing access to hot young wives. THIS incentive, and the resulting work of men eager to build families is what kicked us out of the wilderness and into the garden (farms) of early settled civilization.

    Take away that incentive, and you take away civilization and that’s the God’s honest truth.

  22. @Softek May 7th, 2016 at 10:33 pm

    You are totally misappropriating the the Coolidge Effect as the root of your problems. It is most definitely not in my opinion. What is your problem is that your girlfriend is totally sucking all your energy instead of energizing you.

    It behooves you to understand this principle, because in human relationships this happens all the time. It is not just simply Law #10 of the 48 laws. It goes much deeper than that.

    If you have the time, you might want to read Toru Sato’s “The Ever-Transcending Spirit”* regarding this issue of stealing energy and not building up human credit that can be uses to live an alpha, calm mindset. Before the noise of the social media and the internet, guys like the author knew how to find peace.

    When your girlfriend tells you what to do to steal she takes or steals your energy. And from what you said she is stealing a lot of fucking energy. I repeat a lot of fucking energy. You need to lead a woman by doing what you want to do yourself, so you can inspire her.

    The problem is you don’t know what you want. That is a very big problem. And it is because she is leading you with pussy, controlling you, confusion you by getting you to communicate with her and draining the blood out of your mind and your penis.

    How many of these behaviors can you recognize in your girlfriend?:

    High maintenance / high expectations
    -being overly demanding of others
    -expecting others to be the way we want them to be regardless of how that person feels

    Interrogation / criticism
    -making others seem inadequate by being critical of them (by interrogating or criticizing)
    -makes the self feel better than others

    Intimidation / anger
    -making others fear the self with intimidation and/or expressing anger

    Self-pity / guilt trip
    -making others feel sorry for the self or feel guilty for not being compassionate

    Buttering up (the Boss)
    -making people do things that we do not want to do by telling them that we are not good at it and they are better at it

    Aloofness / charisma
    -making others interested in the self by holding out information

    Chainchatting
    -speaking incessantly without listening to others
    -demanding attention incessantly without letting others have their turn

    Yes, I know but…
    -asking for suggestions and advice
    -responding to the suggestion or advice by expressing that the suggestion or advice is not what we are looking for
    -purpose is not to solve the problem but to receive attention

    Passive Aggression
    -doing things primarily to cause an emotional reaction (e.g., concern, annoyance, anger) in someone else
    -subtle types of behaviors to receive attention from others

    One-upmanship
    -making the other person feel inadequate by stating that we are better than the other person in some way

    Avoidance
    -avoiding others who we feel are likely to steal our energy
    -not a method of stealing energy but rather a method to protect the energy that we have

    Yep. All those behaviors are energy stealing. And you are getting a limp dick from it. Stop it.

    And what’s with the cognitive dissonance “because of the ‘morality’ of nuclear families with monogamous relationships. It’s the most ‘normal’ and safest thing, and what’s completely accepted in our society. Anything else makes me feel like an outcast?”

    That’s just your Madonna/Whore complex rubbing salt in your wounds. Your decisions on lifestyle should be amoral. And nuclear families with monogamous relationships are OK but your odds of succeeding in one are dim. Non-monogamous and serial monogamous relationships are OK too.

    You have to decide amorally. But you do actually have to know what you want and what you are capable of and choose wisely. To choose wisely, you have to have wisdom, to have wisdom you have to have experiences, reflect on them and learn and do differently from them (Field Reports, if you will). You have not had these experiences and you cannot possibly predict how things will turn out based on your decisions. But you do have to decide which fork to take. It may be right or it may be wrong in the end but you can’t just sit on your ass and expect things to happen for you.

    Practical advice. Don’t let her steal energy from you. Learn why this is important and don’t allow it. You need to put a stop to it.
    Looking at other girls is normal (and getting energy from this is totally fucking normal, so stop talking about/being conflicted about and worrying about that). Even if you do have a committed relationship with a girl, it is totally legit to look at engage with other girls. In fact it is essential to a committed relationship with a girl–having social relationships with hot girls and hot guys and interacting with them as a couple. The worst thing you can do is transgress Law #18 of Power in a relationship.

    Do you even read Rollo Tomassi, bro?

    *Toru Sato book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Ever-Transcending-Spirit-Relationships-Consciousness-Development/dp/0595290043/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1462746461&sr=1-1

    It is free here:

    http://webspace.ship.edu/tosato/etsonline.pdf

  23. @YaReally May 8th, 2016 at 11:28 am

    …really I just listen to my instincts and my instincts say go get variety and don’t waste my time in relationships that I’m not 100% satisfied in especially if I’m not having kids yet. I think most guys who pretend they don’t have urges for other women are usually in denial…put a busload of their personal dream 10/10s in front of them begging to suck their dick and like 99% of men won’t happily resist. They may resist but it’ll be because of social conditioning, guilt, shame, fear of failure, fear of success, etc, and not because their dick doesn’t go “holy shit yes I want to be inside those” lol

    Choice of lifestyle is not ideology. No one’s pretending guys like me don’t have urges. You don’t have to accuse guys like me of poor ego-investments and buffers as to why we do what we do. Your statement applies to most men, but it doesn’t have to be that way. It is not that way for me.

    Some of us have spent the last 55 years getting our dopamine flow from work we are happy and proud of, athletic work, family, friends, really good music, socializing, children, passions and pursuits beyond pussy. I’m OK and you are OK. It’s the guys that don’t know what they want and don’t have the resources to get there who we are trying to coach along past triage.

    Your choice is great for you because you know what you want and have the skills, mastery resources and the gumption to accomplish it. The same way some of us have the skills, luck, mastery, resources and the gumption to not delude ourselves into fitting into a different form of relationship.

    From Deida The Way of the Superior Man:

    Any man with a masculine sexual essence will desire sexual variety. Even if he loves his intimate partner and is completely committed to her, he will naturally want sexual occasions with other women besides his chosen intimate partner. How a man deals with his desire for other women is up to him. He should know, however, that there is no way to avoid such desires.

    The fact is you probably want to have sex with other women besides your intimate partner; how you respond to this fact is a reflection of your purpose in life. If your purpose is to enjoy physical pleasure no matter the consequences, then you should screw as many women as you want. If your purpose is to be a nice boy and please “mommy,” then you should do what makes your woman happy. If your purpose is to liberate yourself and others into love and freedom, then you should do whatever magnifies the love and freedom in your life and in the lives of those whom your actions affect.

    It’s your call. Just remember that self-discipline is not self-suppression. Suppression is when you resist and fight against your desires, keeping them as buried and unexpressed as possible. Self discipline is when your highest desires rule your lesser desires, not through resistance, but through loving action fucking a girl good, grounded in understanding knowing what you want and compassion committing to one girl.

    (Deletes above for the gay new agey-ness of the original)

    It is OK for a man to not commit and it is OK for a man to commit (some men even live to tell you it turned out OK). Committing these days is a supreme risk no doubt.

    We are more participants in the process in 2016 rather than controllers. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t desire to be controllers or think we can’t succeed with controlling our circumstances or outcomes. We adapt.

    YaReally is not wrong about the Coolidge Effect because he knows what he wants and he has the mastery to achieve his pursuits. Softek is wrong about the Coolidge effect as THE problem he has now. He’s just confused. That’s his problem. And with guidance he can change the things he can and accept the things he can’t.

    For Softek it’s not about variety being the solution. It is just an option for him when he is trapped in a corner he wants to get out of. He should pursue that option. He needs to pursue that option. And he has the manosphere’s permission to pursue that option.

    A man doesn’t have to get sick of the hottest most drop-dead gorgeous women in the world. But he can choose to and has our permission.

    I’m not trying to argue or lecture, just trying to discriminate motivations.

  24. Stealing Energy (enervating) and Giving Energy in LTR’s was discussed in one of the most epic replies to a Married Red Pill post.

    Must read for married with young kids. And everyone else that doesn’t understand the concept of stealing energy and how to avoid it.

    (Paging Andy…..don’t let your wife get tired buddy)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4fe7pk/how_to_handle_a_wife_that_is_always_sick_andor/

    ( Avoid what the original poster did and see the suggestions by Jacktenofhearts who did a masterful job of explaining the butthurt guy who sucked all the energy out of his wife but wanted sex and how she reacted. )

  25. @YaReally/Sentient An update. The plate who was giving me the ultimatum, realized she was self-sabotaging so opened me a few days ago with some funny line. I replied and immediately sexualized it. We bantered. A few days after that we met up and I banged her brains out. She left then started again with the angry comments about something she claims I said. I replied simply with “lol”. So clearly some Cluster B traits or just some weirdness of some kind trying to get me to chase.

    Another plate I was supposed to meet up with I thought had blown me off and she had thought I’d blown her off. No drama. We realized we were waiting for the other to reach out to confirm. We both laughed it off and we made other plans. She realizes I’m not needy and she understood she should have confirmed so we made plans for another time next week.

    I think…your “lol” reaction and keeping things upbeat by text has to be the way to go.

    With crazy ex she was constantly baiting me by text because it was easier to be weird and confrontational by remote control and I consistently took the bait.

    Learning from the past and having an abundance mentality is critical.

    Also understanding that girls want the full range of emotions and not being afraid of those emotions is now my next stage in adopting game.

    On the topic of good girls/bad girls not being afraid of unleashing the “bad girl” is a topic we haven’t discussed much on this forum.

    I was inhibited..sometimes afraid of unleashing that “bad girl” because I was schooled to think in terms of black and white: all good girl/all bad girl.

    The reality is good girls want to be “bad” but need that security of knowing they’re with someone who isn’t judging them or whom they don’t regard as a long-term prospect so can feel free to be that “bad” girl.

  26. This original post and comments (plus outside reading…always be reading for wisdom) has also given me a lot of insight into LTR game.

    “Security” takes a lot of forms.

    Security in LTR game means providing what women want from men.

    They want:

    Leadership
    Dominance
    Security (economic, physical, emotional),
    Entertainment
    Commitment.

    Have four. Five is not essential. Commitment is the least needed because soft dread is essential for her to desire you.

    The same part of the female brain that is set to process “being in love” desire for a man is the same part of the brain that is the one that is responsible for feeling/processing “being out of control”. She needs to feel comfortable being out of control. She is OK with being out of control as long as she feels secure and you acta non verba and sub-communicate that you indeed are in control of you and her and the relationship.

    These qualities must be provided constantly (man’s burden of performance), and if you take a break, hypergamy kicks in and she’s out because she doesn’t feel secure.

    Very, very often she will use the old hide-the-vagina trick to control/dominate a man, and women will withhold sex if you are not performing your job in giving your LTR woman what she wants.

  27. Just skimmed. Props to wallawalla for bringing the thread back to topic.

    RT writes a great post and the discussion spins off into the merits of lifting. lol
    sorry ladies and feministas. Being a dude is awesome.

  28. @kfg May 8th, 2016 at 12:44 pm

    The hair just stood up on the back of my neck and I said God Dammit, one day I want my son to grow be like KFG and Blaximus.

  29. I think…no, I’m sure that YaReally gets that not all men are beset by the denial monster regarding sexual urges. Right Ya?

    Lol.

    Just gonna try and explain my thoughts.

    ” I think most guys who pretend they don’t have urges for other women are usually in denial…put a busload of their personal dream 10/10s in front of them begging to suck their dick and like 99% of men won’t happily resist.”

    Depends on how ” urges ” is defined. In both of my marriages, the urge to track down and fuck strange pussy was greatly diminished. I was never aware of much conscience effort on my part to deny myself, and there was never any hand wringing about it.

    There was a Yuuuuggggeeee difference in my behavior single vs. married. Fortunately, I never suffered from sex being withheld of used as a bargaining tool or offered as a duty. Okay, after my first child was born, while my wifes hormones were settling back to ” normal “, she had a greatly diminished sex drive. She would tell me that even though she hadn’t fully gone back to her amorous self, she wanted to make sure I wasn’t deprived. Lol, it wasn’t Starfish, but it wasn’t up to our usual standards. I didn’t complain, and in about 6 weeks, she was back to her normal, horny self.

    Right now ( and during my first marriage ) I am confident that a busload of dream 10’s would not be able to coerce me into a blowjob. It has nothing to do with fear ( I fear nothing ) or shame or conditioning or social pressure or lunar phases. In my case it has to do with sexual satisfaction. I used to think I was hard as hell to sexually satisfy, but it was more a matter of the correct sexual partner. I have fucked as many as 3 chicks in a 24 hour period, and I’ve fucked broads and wound up jerking off before going to sleep. These chicks, while fun and sexy and willing, just did not fully ” do it ” for me in that way.

    Conversely, I have bedded some hotties that more than satisfied me sexually, but they were not relationship/marriage material at all. That’s fine too, but I wanted the best of both worlds.

    So I’m wary of hawt chicks because it takes more than her looks to satisfy me. And I’d wager it is the same for many guys that have regular sex with hawt or even semi-hawt girls. So in the presence of hotties, my brain stays cool and calm. Hence: The busload won’t elicit an uncontrollable and visceral reaction. I KNOW I can blow their minds sexually, but wtf do they bring to the table? Their appearance doesn’t really tell me shit.

    I guess the other part of the equation is that I REFUSE to be manipulated by a woman’s looks. I went through all of this as a teen. Jumping through hoops to bone a hottie. Doing and saying shit I didn’t want to for ” top shelf ” LMAO at that phrase, pussy.

    This is why I always state ” they are just chicks…”. It’s true. I dismantled the pedestal in 1980, and it’s never coming back. I do the choosing. I have the power. I am the actual fucking prize. Most broads are not truly worthy. They have been mislead. Tricked even. Poor things….

    I understand that many single guys cannot grasp the concept of fucking the same woman for years and years and decades, and still having desire for her, and she for you. I get that. But it happens. That’s why I admonish men to VET and THINK and Do The Work.

    By work I mean this: Me and my ex are not really friends. I’ll tell you guys this because_ Anonymity, plus it’s what we do here in the comments. The last time I was alone with her to discuss my daughter’s college graduation, I was already remarried. Truth – I was uncomfortable being alone with her because even after the divorce, I was still EXTREMELY sexually attracted to her.

    So she wants to chat and catch up and be friendly, but I was chubbing up and was ready to bounce. Being a chick, she wanted to get some emotional shit off of her chest. It was about how the divorce was the worst thing that happened, she thinks of how lucky she was to have me, and blah blah – then she said that sex has been a huge disappointment after we broke up. She didn’t realize the importance of a ” sexual equal ” and that sex didn’t have as much meaning anymore.

    Full boner. Can’t stand up now.

    Put in the work. Get into your partner, literally and figuratively. You could show me a picture of the bottom of my wife’s little toe and I could identify it as her’s. Lol. Subcomms work in marriage just like they do anywhere else. I don’t tell my wife that she’s attractive and sexy and I want her, I show her. She understands and reciprocates fully. feedback loop in full effect.

    18 years in and I still love playing with her, dominating her, bending her to my will. Last night I picked her up out of her chair and held her chest high while I spoke to her. After a while she squirmed. Then she blushed. Then she said ” put me down honey..”. Erect nipples visible through her t-shirt. headed for the bedroom…doorbell rang. Company. I was tempted to leave them standing on the front porch, but they had Mother’s Day gifts.

    Great night.

    1 of over 5,000…. lol.

    I am a champion of variety, so I get single guys wants. But there are other possibilities.

  30. Excellent words Blaximus.

    And for those less excellent than Blaximus…..

    Its one thing to espouse in the manosphere that man is best dominant and women are best submissive.

    Submissiveness annoys the hell out of the FI woman’s directives. The Hivemind swarms at the thought of it. Sometimes it enrages them with anger. How dare you fucking mysoginistic, patriarchal mother-fuckers!

    But there is a flip side to this. When a man is performing his duties in a LTR. When he is to be the best that he can be in terms of leadership, dominance, (economic, physical and emotional) security as well as entertainment (but might fall short at times) and a women refuses to be SUPPORTIVE . At those times he has to remain stoic and do the work.
    Then is on her. And he has to claw back to get the desire and the support. And he should do it if she is worth the effort. 90% is on him and the other half is on her–to not be a bitch.

    Do the work. Get better. Learn and practice But insist covertly on her holding up the other half to be SUPPORTIVE in a LTR.

    If you have trouble and need an explanation on how to do this in an LTR read and understand BluePillProfessor’s book for a blueprint.

    I’m not complaining. Just explaining. That is what the Manosphere was invented for: To Be Supportive of men and to teach men how to be the prize. And to teach you how to teach her how to be supportive. Unless she wants to lose you, the prize…….

    Just like “therapy” for men sounds weak and masculine self-improvement sounds, well, it sounds masculine.

    Being submissive sounds weak for women today, but being supportive should sound pretty damn feminine in a LTR as the proper frame for a woman. And more Feminine Correct.

  31. Also, I agree about giving Energy. I want my wife, and entire family, to see me as if I were fucking Santa when I walk through the door. I want that kind of excitement.

    That means I can’t be a whiny, complaining bitch ( I save that for TRM…lol ). I’m the Rock, the foundation. As I go, so do they.

    Burden excepted.

  32. @SJF:

    When I was 5 or 6 I wanted to grow up to be Rikki-Tikki-Tavi.
    And if I ever produce my own line of bicycles I fancy branding it Cher Ami.

  33. Not Safe for Work videos:

    Megan Draper is being a bitch, but Don Draper keeps frame and remains fleezerly dominant and she submits.

    Submissive woman:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZXGf0Kft7k

    Doesn’t sound legit for today’s women

    (No offense to Forge the Sky, but that vid reminded me of what his current interest was doing covertly: “I don’t want “people” to think you’re getting this. You don’t get to have this….go sit over there….all you get to do is watch….” )

    Megan serenades Don Draper on his birthday

    Supportive woman:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXoILGnHnvM

    Sounds legit for today’s woman.

    Words matter.

  34. KFG:

    “When I was 5 or 6 I wanted to grow up to be Rikki-Tikki-Tavi.”

    I’m glad you got over that. Otherwise I doubt you would have reached the lofty plateau I envision you reside on with your Frame, MPO and strength of character.

    Nor would you have energized the commentariat and readers of TRM as well as you do with your aphorisms if you were stuck at the level of being a mongoose cartoon character. .

    Exactly as I described, KFG donates energy to the blog, rather than steals energy.

  35. “women will withhold sex if you are not performing your job in giving your LTR woman what she wants.”

    A big big part of giving her what she wants though SJF is the knowledge that she is competing with other women… and she thinks she is winning…

    There is a base level of discomfort required in the female brain that men simply cannot fathom.

  36. “I’m glad you got over that. Otherwise I doubt you would have reached the lofty plateau I envision you reside on with your Frame, MPO and strength of character.”

    You try following a cobra down its own hole, never mind coming out again. That scene made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It’s the greatest story ever told and I didn’t even find out until a few years later that it originally went under the title Beowulf.

    And now the prayer scene in the same story (The 13th Warrior) makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

    I’m also reminded of this:

    Interviewer: Everyone wants to be Cary Grant.
    Archibald Leach: So do I.

  37. @ Sentient

    Interesting.

    Your decade of your marriage was probably her falling down on her 50% of the bargain. To be supportive.

    My decade of the fog in my marriage was my falling down on my 90% of the bargain. To make her feel safe in her Hypergamy by me providing:

    Leadership
    Dominance
    Security (economic, physical, emotional),
    Entertainment

    Yep. It took me a you a while to clue in.

    I’m glad we both got the the final memo/clue.

    Thank gods for the manosphere. And Rollo.

  38. @Rollo Tomassi wrote:

    “Instead of being confused and agonizing
    over the traditional (old order) ‘Good Girl’ social restrictions that buffered the more damaging consequences of Hypergamy, now women agonize over the
    conflict between what Fempowerment has conditioned them to believe they should be attracted to in an “equal partner” (Beta Bucks) and their visceral sexual
    drive for ‘bad’ Alpha dominance in a man they want to lose themselves with.

    They’ll still lay claim to the ‘Good Girl’ social convention when it suits their purpose (i.e. during the Epiphany Phase) to affirm their decisions to
    prioritize a need for long term security – or to excuse past Alpha Fucks sexual needs – but the primary conflict is still the same, an internal war between
    the contradicting aspects of her sexual strategies and how they influence her life’s decisions and different phases of her maturity.

    In her
    SMV Peak years,
    “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!” is the message she adopts insofar as it serves her sexual strategy’s immediate interests.
    The conflict comes when she needs to temper this sentiment with a need to settle into a motherhood role and compromise it just enough to present the appearance
    of being a prudent choice for long term commitment.”

    Lo and behold: I find a real live example. Hell, maybe this is the same woman in the 10-year marriage Bosch speaks of:

    Sexless Marriage – Good Girls No Longer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hRZvQXNlnU

    Cameo is at WAR — with herself … the very same “internal conflict” Rollo references in his post.

    Right out of the box, she starts with the following comments in her monologue to the ladies:

    “I’ve always been a little sexually disfunctioned I have way too much sexual power and it causes problems in my marriage sometimes because I’m attracting things that are a little inappropriate…”

    “So I completely box up that sexual power and I put that sexual power in my pocket where nobody else can find it and nobody else can get to it…”

    Later hamster-rationalizing:

    “Of course that lust piece kind of dies down (in marriage) (Right, Blaximus?)

    Here’s my take:

    1. Cameo is expending a ton of energy and effort to build a website, discussion board, videos — presumably to help other women. While this may be true in some small part, IMO she is doing this to hold herself accountable (with the help of other women) to stave off her unquenchable need for AF. Why? Because BB hubby “Jeff” sure as hell can’t hold her accountable. He is not capable of giving her AFs but she can’t really come out and say this, hm?

    My own experience has been that women are innately selfish and solipsistic (as has been addressed numerous times here) and prone to navel-gaze in order to “figure my own shit out first” before “selflessly” helping other women.

    So the hamster rationalizes, while secretly hoping that one day “Jeff” just “gets it.”

    2. Cameo, most likely, slipped up in her marriage and, in a moment of weakness, cheated on “Jeff” with an AF. Naturally, beta boy “Jeff” was crushed but took her back … you know, cuz of the kids n’ all. Why do I assume this? Because she fired right out of the box with her attracting the “inappropriate” comment. Guilty people feeling ashamed of their behavior often like to try to clear the air up front with their audience before addressing the topic at hand.

    3. “Jeff,” through his pedestalizing and comfort-giving, most likely is the reason Cameo HATES feeling like a “good girl.” She needs a man to bring the alpha and the alpha hammering in the bedroom — and Jeff ain’t it.
    But, hey, sounds like their compromise is making sure to schedule regular sex. Great. Let’s see how that works out for you, Jeff, when she eventually runs into another AF with such tight game that he easily pick-pockets that massive “sexual power” she says she is hiding deep in her pocket.

    Again, from Rollo’s topic post:

    “…now women agonize over the
    conflict between what Fempowerment has conditioned them to believe they should be attracted to in an “equal partner” (Beta Bucks) and their visceral sexual
    drive for ‘bad’ Alpha dominance in a man they want to lose themselves with.”

  39. Wala

    “Also understanding that girls want the full range of emotions and not being afraid of those emotions is now my next stage in adopting game.”

    YES!!!! Do not be afraid that she is having a negative feeling… this is what most of them want… to get this hit and then feel better.

    It’s OK that she is upset, “stews in her juices”, and acts a bitch…

    IF you are non reactive (i.e. not supplicating).

    This is what it means to be the rock. FORGE are you listening?

  40. SJF

    “Your decade of your marriage was probably her falling down on her 50% of the bargain. To be supportive.”

    Nah… it’s always on us… For me, instead of recognizing the bullshit games as the kabuki theater it is, I tried to logically parse it out…

    Never worked.. always blew up… histrionics… then mad sex.

    Goading for alpha…

  41. “Do not be afraid that she is having a negative feeling… this is what most of them want… to get this hit and then feel better.”

    This is how they get to feel better. Men hit a heavy bag for a while, women use men as an emotional heavy bag.

    And when both get tuckered out, they feel better.

  42. Sentient

    “There is a base level of discomfort required in the female brain that men simply cannot fathom.”

    “YES!!!! Do not be afraid that she is having a negative feeling… this is what most of them want… to get this hit and then feel better.
    It’s OK that she is upset, “stews in her juices”, and acts a bitch…
    IF you are non reactive (i.e. not supplicating).”

    Would you believe me if I told you that I just found out about that on May 5th, 2016? Even though my buddy uses the Get Smart ringtone for my cellphone calls?

    No one ever told me before.

    As you all can tell, sometimes I’m as clueless as Maxwell Smart. But that is OK with me. I’m having fun and hope to add value.

  43. SJF

    LOL… yeah I believe you… That’s why I keep saying over and over and over “cats are NOT dogs”, because the female way of thinking is completely alien to guys, especially spergy guys on boards like this and CH…

    This is a fundamental thing any guy needs to understand.. He will never “get” a women by using logic and rational thought. It’s literally impossible.

    A cat is never going to fetch a stick and bring it back to you… But will reliably chase something you pull away from it – no matter how cool and composed they seem at the time [Mystery – Cat String Theory].

    A guy once posted about women and pain – to the degree that the two most painful and important experiences for a woman were losing her virginity and then childbirth. The result being that they associate PAIN with LOVE. I can’t really argue anything against that theory…

  44. SJF – LOL at your “crickets” story. I’ve been there a hundred times… I’ve come to understand my wife is HSP – a Highly Sensitive Person… Sounds like your wife may be as well….

    Shit after the Sandy Hook shooting, 1,000 miles away… she was beside herself for a few days…

    You might look into it, to at least confirm YOU are not crazy.

  45. @ SJF

    Very insightful, thank you. A lot to take in. Took Step One tonight, just taking the night for myself. The sheer amount of TIME that is going into this relationship is crippling me.

    Let alone all the other dynamics and my own confusion.

    @ Blax, YaReally, rest

    Lots to think about. Comment section has been a gold mine today. As usual I appreciate all the advice and reading everyone’s stories, and it’s been extremely cathartic for me. As well as giving me a lot of new things to think about that I didn’t think of before.

    My confusion is issue #1 here. Looking forward to going to bed now and asking myself what I want. If I can figure out even a little bit about where I stand and what direction I want to go in that will help a lot. And of course I’m the only one that can answer that question. Seeing all the different perspectives here always helps.

  46. @softek before identifying what you want…you may want to clarify in your head exactly what you don’t want.

    This year I resolved to focus on me…what I didn’t want was more stress and hassles that often the wilted from me over in vesting on people and women who didn’t deliver what I wanted.

    I focused on a few things I wanted for myself …one was inner confidence. Not just acting cool but being cool.

    I looked at the parts of my life and he people in those parts and tried to figure what I could shed.

    I reframed some of what I perceived to be failings or slights mor as successes or learnings…

    I looked at how I wanted to be perceived and then what I needed to do to achieve that.

    I could be something simple…better sound quality when I dj. Or it could be deterring how to keep a girl based on whether they do stuff for me.

    I achieved both …found some cool audio equipment …and stopped supplicating even a little. Now girls are buying me cool gifts…I’m getting invited to more interesting events…hose are tangible.

    The intangible is a greater confidence based on my own inner judgement.

    This takes work and it is not easy nor cannot be solved writing about it…

  47. Don’t ask yourself what you want. (Because you don’t know). Tell yourself what you want and how you are going to accomplish that in a three act play.

  48. Sentient

    “I’ve come to understand my wife is HSP – a Highly Sensitive Person… Sounds like your wife may be as well….”

    Actually, she is not. She is HSE (high self esteem) and is very stoic tough most of the time. I can’t recall her every really doing what she did that day.

    But she likes to emotionally roam like all girls. Party girl–ENFP in MBTI parlance. (You know– a true free spirit… the life of the party, but less interested in the sheer excitement and pleasure of the moment than they are in enjoying the social and emotional connections they make with others.Charming, independent, energetic and compassionate) If I only had the mastery over Roissy’s ninth commandment of poon I’d be all set. Still learning that learning curve.

    That is what totally illustrated the points of the OP and the comments and why what you are trying to drive home is why it was driven home to me.

    She rarely freaks out and she does enjoy negative emotions that oscillate to positive emotions and back. So I know what I have to do. And have been doing it as best I can and the script is definitely working.

  49. @Softek

    From Steven Pressfield’s “Do the work”

    http://www.amazon.com/Do-Work-Overcome-Resistance-Your/dp/1936891379

    Unformatted because it is Too Long Do Read. ….Or scroll.

    (@Forge the Sky, this may also resonate with you because of your literary writing background and your current game scenario)

    “Start Before You’re Ready

    Don’t prepare. Begin.

    Remember, our enemy is not lack of preparation; it’s not the difficulty of the project or the state of the marketplace or the emptiness of our bank account.

    The enemy is Resistance.

    The enemy is our chattering brain, which, if we give it so much as a nanosecond, will start producing excuses, alibis, transparent self-justifications, and a million reasons why we can’t/shouldn’t/won’t do what we know we need to do.

    Start before you’re ready.

    Good things happen when we start before we’re ready. For one thing, we show huevos. Our blood heats up. Courage begets more courage. The gods, witnessing our boldness, look on in approval. W. H. Murray said:

    Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one’s favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. I have learned a deep respect for one of Goethe’s couplets: “Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.” Begin it now.

    A Research Diet

    Before we begin, you wanna do research? Uh-unh. I’m putting you on a diet.

    You’re allowed to read three books on your subject. No more.

    No underlining, no highlighting, no thinking or talking about the documents later. Let the ideas percolate.

    Let the unconscious do its work.

    Research can become Resistance. We want to work, not prepare to work.

    (Later we’ll come back and do serious, heavy-duty research. Later. Not now.)

    Two quick thoughts as we begin:

    1. Stay Primitive

    The creative act is primitive. Its principles are of birth and genesis.
    Babies are born in blood and chaos; stars and galaxies come into being amid the release of massive primordial cataclysms.

    Conception occurs at the primal level. I’m not being facetious when I stress, throughout this book, that it is better to be primitive than to be sophisticated, and better to be stupid than to be smart.

    The most highly cultured mother gives birth sweating and dislocated and cursing like a sailor.

    That’s the place we inhabit as artists and innovators. It’s the place we must become comfortable with.

    The hospital room may be spotless and sterile, but birth itself will always take place amid chaos, pain, and blood.

    2. Swing for the Seats

    My first job was in advertising in New York. I used to bring ideas to my boss that were so tiny, they made him apoplectic.

    “This idea is the size of a postage stamp! If it were any more miniscule, I’d need an electron microscope just to see it! Go back to your cubicle and bring me something BIG!”

    If you and I want to do great stuff, we can’t let ourselves work small. A home-run swing that results in a strikeout is better than a successful bunt or even a line-drive single.

    Start playing from power. We can always dial it back later. If we don’t swing for the seats from the start, we’ll never be able to drive a fastball into the upper deck.

    Lunch with My Mentor

    Some years ago I had lunch at Joe Allen’s in Manhattan with my mentor (though he would cringe at that word), the writer and documentary maker Norm Stahl. He was making some notes on a pad of yellow, legal-size foolscap paper. He told me something that has saved my bacon more times than I can count:
    Steve, God made a single sheet of yellow foolscap (legal sized, yellow paper pad) exactly the right length to hold the outline of an entire novel.

    What did Norm mean by that?

    He meant don’t overthink. Don’t overprepare. Don’t let research become Resistance. Don’t spend six months compiling a thousand-page tome detailing the emotional matrix and family history of every character in your book.

    Outline it fast. Now. On instinct.

    Discipline yourself to boil down your story/new business/philanthropic enterprise to a single page.

    Is this easy? Hell, no.

    So the next chapter offers a helpful hint:

    Three-Act Structure

    Break the sheet of foolscap into three parts: beginning, middle, and end.
    This is how screenwriters and playwrights work. Act One, Act Two, Act Three.

    How Leonardo Did It

    Here’s the Last Supper in three acts on a single sheet of foolscap:

    1. Supper table stretching across the width of the canvas.

    2.Jesus standing in the center, apostles arrayed in various postures left and right.

    3. Perspective and background tailing off behind.

    That’s all Mr. Da V needed to start. The rest is details.

    Positively Fourth Street in Three Acts

    1. “You got a lotta nerve to say you are my friend ….
    2. “ … when you know as well as me, you’d rather see me paralyzed …

    3.“ … you’d know what a drag it is to see you.”

    The Vietnam Memorial

    In three acts, on one sheet of foolscap:

    1. A wall with the names of the fallen in chronological order of the dates of their deaths.

    2. Wall set below the level of the ground in a “V,” extending from a shallow end to a deep end.

    3. Visitors descend to view the wall, which has no barrier to prevent them from touching the names of the memorialized or from leaving tokens of love or honor at the base of the wall.

    At the conception stage, the artist works by instinct. What feels right?

    What does she love?

    Is this her pure vision? Does it feel so right to her that she can dedicate the next X years of her life to realizing it?

    Those were the only questions, at the start, that Maya Lin needed to ask and answer.

    Did she analyze her design intellectually? No doubt. Did she reflect on the utility of negative space and the power of what’s-left-out? Of course. Did she assess with her intellect which aspects of the design would produce emotion and why? I’m sure she did.

    But all that is beside the point at this stage. Let the art historians worry about that later.

    Do you love your idea? Does it feel right on?

    Do you love your idea? Does it feel right on instinct? Are you willing to bleed for it?

    Facebook in Three Acts

    1. A digital commons, upon which anyone who wishes may establish, free, his or her own personal “page.”

    2. Each page owner determines who is permitted access to his or her page.

    3. Thus creating a worldwide community of “friends” who can interact with other “friends” and communicate or share virtually anything they want.

    That’s Why They Call It Rewriting

    The old saw says there’s no such thing as writing, only rewriting. This is true.

    Better to have written a lousy ballet than to have composed no ballet at all.

    Get your idea down on paper. You can always tweak it later.

    Next question: How do you get it down?

    Start at the End

    Here’s a trick that screenwriters use: work backwards. Begin at the finish.

    If you’re writing a movie, solve the climax first. If you’re opening a restaurant, begin with the experience you want the diner to have when she walks in and enjoys a meal. If you’re preparing a seduction, determine the state of mind you want the process of romancing to bring your lover to.

    Figure out where you want to go; then work backwards from there.

    Yes, you say. “But how do I know where I want to go?”

    Answer the Question “What Is This About?”

    Start with the theme. What is this project about?

    What is the Eiffel Tower about? What is the space shuttle about? What is Nude Descending a Staircase about?

    Your movie, your album, your new startup … what is it about? When you know that, you’ll know the end state. And when you know the end state, you’ll know the steps to take to get there.

    Moby Dick on a Single Sheet, Working Back to Front

    What is Moby Dick about?

    It’s about the clash between human will and the elemental malice of nature, i.e. (in Melville’s dark 19th-century view), the Old Testament God.

    So … a monster. A whale. A white whale (because white is even weirder and scarier than whatever color whales normally are).

    Next: a mortal to challenge the monster. He must be monstrous himself. Obsessed, arrogant, monomaniacal. Ahab.

    Knowing our theme (in other words, what Moby Dick is about), we now know the climax: Ahab harpoons the white whale and duels it to the death. No other climax is possible.

    Now we have Act Three. We have our end.

    Next: beginning and middle. We need to set the climax up and load it with maximum emotion and thematic impact.

    We must, in other words, establish both protagonist and antagonist, make clear to the reader what each of them represents and what their conflict means thematically in the broader scheme of the human (and divine) condition.

    Beginning: Ishmael. Our point of view. A human-scale witness to the tragedy.

    Once we have Ishmael, we have our start and our ultimate finish—after the whale destroys the Pequod and all her crew and drags Ahab to his death in the depths, Ishmael pops up amid the wreckage, the lone survivor, to tell the tale.

    End first, then beginning and middle. That’s your startup, that’s your plan for competing in a triathlon, that’s your ballet.

    “But hey, Steve … I thought you said ‘Don’t think.’”

    Let’s pause for a moment then and consider the difference between thinking and “thinking.”

    Thoughts and Chatter

    Have you ever meditated? Then you know what it feels like to shift your consciousness to a witnessing mode and to watch thoughts arise, float across your awareness, and then drift away, to be replaced by the next thought and the thought after that.

    These are not thoughts. They are chatter.

    I was thirty years old before I had an actual thought. Everything up till then was either what Buddhists call “monkey-mind” chatter or the reflexive regurgitation of whatever my parents or teachers said, or whatever I saw on the news or read in a book, or heard somebody rap about, hanging around the street corner.

    In this book, when I say “Don’t think,” what I mean is: don’t listen to the
    chatter. Pay no attention to those rambling, disjointed images and notions that drift across the movie screen of your mind.

    Those are not your thoughts.

    They are chatter.

    They are Resistance.

    Chatter is your mother and father’s well-intentioned expressions of caution, seeking to shield you from hurting yourself. Chatter is your teachers’ equally well-meaning attempts at socialization, training you to follow the rules. Chatter is your friends’ regular-Joe buddy-talk, trying to make you like them and follow the rules of the pack.

    Chatter is Resistance.

    Its aim is to reconcile you to “the way it is,” to make you exactly like everyone else, to render you amenable to societal order and discipline.

    Where do our own real thoughts come from? How can we access them? From what source does our true, authentic self speak?

    Answering that is the work you and I will do for the rest of our lives.

    Ready to Rock and Roll

    We’ve got our concept, we’ve got our theme. We know our start. We know where we want to finish. We’ve got our project in three acts on a single sheet of foolscap.

    Ready to roll? We need only to remember our three mantras:

    Stay primitive.

    Trust the soup.

    Swing for the seats.

    And our final-final precept:

    4. Be ready for Resistance

  50. I enjoyed reading reading that again. That was just the beginning of that book. He also has two Middles and and End.

    @ Softek

    Do the Work, Bro. You made it through triage. It is time to get healthy.

  51. During sex: always lead, always control, always structure what is happening. She wants to serve a strong man: show her how to so she doesn’t go off on self-destructive tangents. As McQueen used to say, don’t call her ‘a’ whore, call her ‘your’ whore. Your eyes are your strength here: if she’s sucking your dick, tell her to look at you….”

    About 4 months ago I remember rubbing my wife’s pussy (if we’re both tired, we’ll just finish each other off this way and call it a night). I can usually make her orgasm within a minute. I told her, “I want you to come hard for me.” She responds well to this and gets closer to the moment. Right before I thought she was at the point of no return, I said, “Look into my eyes when you come, baby.” As if jumping out of a trance, she replied with a perplexed face and slightly annoyed voice, “What for?!”

    I was gobsmacked. The mood was ruined. I replied, “Because the words left my fucking mouth. I begrudgingly finished her off and got up and left the room without busting a nut knowing I had to find a side piece.

  52. @Sentient, as Rollo says, sometimes you can’t repair a relationship – too many years of beta and a wife can’t see the new you through it.

    See, I was getting her off well, but she was in her own zone with her eyes squinted (probably thinking of another dude), but when I asked her to actually look at me, she wasn’t having it. Fucked up how even a good looking dude’s face is forever ruined by years of beta.

    Just this weekend, I said to her, “You realize you haven’t come up to me and passionately kissed me in seven years? Sure, we’ve fucked and all that, but for all that time, you’ve never approached me in that way.”

    DRUM ROLL (you’ll love this)………

    She said, “Because your toothbrush is always dirty with shaved facial hair.”

    I wasn’t angry, but I told her point blank, “Are you shitting me? Get the fuck out of this room right now with that dumb shit.”

    Funny how after that, all of a sudden she wanted to stay in the room and be interested in what I had to say. I got up and escorted her out of the room as I told her I’m finding another woman to treat me properly.

    The next day, she’s all apologizing and trying to hug me and make up. I calmly explained to her that I keep my toothbrush, toothpaste, and razor on the same shelf over of the sink. Sometimes the toothbrush falls on it’s side and gets hairs on it, but I wash the fucking thing before I put it in my month, but that it was besides the point and that people simply fall out of love and shit happens and I’ve accepted it.

  53. @ya

    “Most of my buddies are more into the crossfit type stuff because they want overall functional muscle/athleticism VS just being big. ”

    normal weightlifing + xfit is money. if you go to a box, you can just get the unlimited plan and then roll in there whenever to just lift weights on your own time and go to classes when you want.

    “I know the more I work out the less it’ll hurt but I think it’ll be a struggle for a while before I normalize it as a part of my weekly/daily routine”

    ya dude, everyone who says that it only takes 1-3 months for the above to happen is lying.

    you’re right to think of the whole process as similar to game in that you’re rewiring your psyche. so plan on the better part of a year of dedicated effort before you start going ‘hell yeah, gym time!’ and it fits smoothly into your life

    “Like this stuff: “The feeling of going that extra mile or lifting that extra 5lbs,being pumped up with hot blood coursing through your veins is a sort of self competition that makes a man feel alive and accomplished.” means nothing to me lol I just roll my eyes at it.”

    nah.

    it’s more like….whenever you reach a new milestone. so like, you get your bench to 1.5x bodyweight, then over 2x bodyweight, etc. but yeah i’ve never been too excited for small jumps like the above.

    ” “oh ya hot blood is coursing through my veins rarrr!!!!” etc when I work out even if it sounds retarded to me, until my brain believes it lol It’ll take a bit but I’ll probably be better for it when I’m an old man.”

    yeah also don’t forget to flex in the mirror at the gym between sets.

    “lol those nerds need to hit a bar and watch how little being jacked actually matters.”

    being shredded is a plus just because of the mental effect. you feel strong and so you act strong. if you’re natty, you will look really good without clothes on but if you have anything but maybe a t-shirt that shows most of your upper arm on, people won’t be able to tell how buff you are. so the main benefit really is mental IME.

    @blax

    “How do you make people understand the power of true will?”

    well in Fletcher’s case he took a dumptruck of hormones, so….

    @SJF

    “Megan Draper is being a bitch, but Don Draper keeps frame and remains fleezerly dominant and she submits.”

    it’s so lol how much the manosphere loves Don Draper. the whole point of Don is that he’s an empty suit with shitty internals (but great externals) and that’s why he ultimately outs himself as the little bitch he is (and also prat of why he’s a great ‘artist’ according to the show).

    Compare him to Roger. Roger is legit dgaf.

  54. Newly

    LOL man… but that’s just a garden variety shit test…

    “She said, “Because your toothbrush is always dirty with shaved facial hair.”
    I wasn’t angry, but I told her point blank, “keep it up… you’re working you’re way out of a job”

    I’ve said that and it’s amazing how quickly they respond to being challenged. That’s the issue… we get too lazy and don’t challenge them enough.. because it’s work and a hassle. part of that also is you know what you are going to get in the end. I’ve had sex with my wife thousands of times now over 27 years…

    Gaming a new girl takes as much or even more work, but you are getting something “new”, maybe not even better LOl but still new.

  55. Basically, structure a performance of faux-degradation and sexual submissiveness she can enact it that makes her feel she’s served a strong man,

    It works. But the next part – don’t leave scars – is not quite on. You should leave scars. Internal ones. So she hurts (and is attracted) every time she is with you.

    The beatings will continue until you are totally submissive all the time.

    In other words the beatings (small if she is mostly submissive) will go on forever. Dad worked that one with Mom. In public. Public humiliation is good for leaving scars.

  56. regarding “the couch”

    interesting to see how Rollo’s writing has evolved over 4ish years.
    ,
    “People experiencing genuine desire for one another don’t care about externalities. Nothing else exists to them but the object of their passion (and consummating it); there is no dirty laundry, no stain on a carpet, no neighbors who may hear them fucking, there is only them.”

    agree. my wife and I have this thing where she always blows me outside when we visit a state park. it started when we were first dating and continues to this day.

    a few weeks ago we got caught in the act by a couple who were just too damn quiet on their hike. we hadn’t been caught in years. it was pretty awesome.

    then the next week we went hiking at a different place, not a state park. we got out on the trail:

    me: “you know, this isn’t a state park, but”

    her: “I was already thinking that before we got out of the car”

    five minutes later she was on her knees.

    awalt.

  57. @Sentient, I hear you, but you should have seen the look on her face. Basically like a kid getting caught trying to use emotion to take cookie crumbs out of the logical jar. I was blown away at how utterly stupid that excuse was to the point of laughing out loud.

    It’s like in that moment, she finally knew I was ready to pull the trigger on another woman. I am.

  58. @SJF @Blaximus
    “I think most guys who pretend they don’t have urges for other women are usually in denial”

    “Your statement applies to most men, but it doesn’t have to be that way. It is not that way for me.”
    “It has nothing to do with fear ( I fear nothing ) or shame or conditioning or social pressure”

    Then you guys aren’t the guys I’m referring to.

    @walawala
    She’s not Cluster-B. I told you what she’s doing and why and how your actions have caused it. This back and forth she’s doing is standard behavior for the situation you’ve put her in. Don’t be the guy who got back from war and thinks every car backfire is a grenade ambush.

    You’ve given her too much of a sample of the Provider side of things and she’s hit the Ultimatum point so she’s going to keep oscillating between fucking you and pushing you away and trying to get you to chase and hating that she’s attracted to you etc etc because she’s in limbo because you didn’t treat her like a full fuckbuddy or a full LTR, you have her in some middle ground where she’s going to be frustrated. Nothing to do with Cluster-B. Save that diagnosis for the actual crazy chicks lol

    @scray
    “so the main benefit really is mental IME.”

    Yup. If I take a jacked dude and make him watch a bunch of sad movies and then send him out to a bar where he’s not comfortable full of people he’s not comfortable around and wearing something he’s not comfortable in, so his subcomms are all fucked up, he’ll get fuck and all for results…maybe some aggressive 6’s coming up to him. If I take a skinny/fat/etc dude and pump his state up, fill his head with good programming and send him out to a bar where he’s comfortable and knows people and he’s wearing his favorite shirt etc, he’s going to kill it because his subcomms will be solid.

    I want to see the Harvard “muscles are attractive” survey crew (hi Rollo!) answer 3 questions, based on their experiments’ results:

    1) How do they explain guys like Tyler and other skinny non-muscular PUAs consistently taking girls home when there are other better looking more jacked and richer dudes right beside them that the girls could choose instead? Since they harp on how consistent their results are, shouldn’t a nightclub look like everyone goes in and all the girls fight over the most jacked dude there? Since that’s not how it looks at all, what value does their silly badly designed experiment actually have?

    2) How do they explain all the jacked rich dudes on death row who don’t get laid? Do they think all those guys are pulling girls home because anyone who’s spent any amount of time in clubs and bars can tell you that a ton of jacked dudes and rich dudes and jacked rich dudes go home empty handed or chode around or bomb their sets. But how do these guys existing and these results happening fit into their experiment’s results…according to their results, these guys should all be getting laid every night since all the girls should be competing for them.

    3) If they can’t explain either of those first two questions then literally what basis is there in their mind for anyone to take their survey any more seriously than we would take the results of a survey asking women “would you cheat on your partner?” or more dramatically “would you blow a skinny nerdy Tyler in the bathroom of a bar while your husband is txting you asking how your girls’ night out is going”? We would LAUGH at an experiment like that just like we laugh at the female commenters here who say THEY would never do “such and such behavior”…but when it’s LOOKS, *THEN* we listen and take what they say seriously.

    I would LEGITIMATELY love to hear them answer those questions…especially the scientist types DOING the experiments. But none of them will bother even asking those questions or trying to answer them. Because they can’t. Because what happens infield in real life doesn’t fit what they predict will happen based on their flawed experiments that they don’t even realize are flawed.

  59. newlyaloof – May 9th, 2016 at 10:20 am

    Leaving with your hand? A ready dick is nothing. Betas and Gammas have those. Do you have a ready to leave attitude? Always?

    Since you are new and I’ve been away a bit – my first GF taught me the rudiments of game in ’62. “Never apologize”, she said. It was a start.

    I like flirting with other women in public. Keeps her on her toes. And if she complains? “You saw what happened. You can be replaced.”

    I’m 71. Was getting IOIs from a couple of 16 yos the other day. Me: “Did you see that?” She: “Yeah.” Me: “Never forget you can be replaced with a younger model. Your best defense is total submission.”

  60. If a man tooka dump truck full of hormones and sat on his ass he would be weak and grow a set of D cups.

    Hard work still must be done.

    If it were a matter of exogenous hormones, every man would be big and strong.

    Part of gaining strength is indeed mental. The majority of the benefit is solely in the strength itself.

    Having lost at least a third of the strength I’d had all through my 30’s and early 40’s, I am still much stronger than the majority of men my age.

    No more 500 pound bench presses. Settle for 300. 225 for multiple sets. Squats have suffered greatly but that’s okay.

    The dividends of lifting have an amazingly long payout. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing.

    It is my beleif that all men should work at being strong, but that’s just my beleif in the end.

    Understanding and Will.

    So much untapped and unrealized potential.

    It bleeds over into every aspect of a man’s life. Will.

    Will can be developed and strengthened just as the body can.

    Ya reminded me of how my boxing coach made fun of my evident loss of speed a few weeks ago. But what I know is that in that discussion, I am motivated to continue towards my goal even more. My speed bag is smoking everyday now.

    Why? Because coach was right in that I don’t put in THE WORK.
    So I am working harder. Much harder.

    In 6 months, if I’m still slower that the average trained 25 year old, I am good with that. No problem.

    Lol, but I am gonna give 46 year old coach a whipping for talking so much shit. In order to do this I must match or out work him.

    The work.

    Why even bother ? Because it’s challenging and fun. Just like picking up chicks.

    Fletcher, being older and more accomplished, motivates me just like mystery or Tyler/rsd motivates guys regarding PUA.

    Dump truck not an issue.

  61. ” . . . the Harvard “muscles are attractive” survey crew . . .”

    Daffodils are attractive. That doesn’t mean that anybody wants to fuck them. Rollo consistently makes the distinction between attraction and desire.

    And I have consistently pointed out that the in your face (as it were) flaw of surveys based on selecting pictures is that they only determine which pictures women find attractive, not men, never mind which men they select to fuck.

    Noting that attraction is an advantage is not at all the same thing as claiming that attraction is the whole ball game.

  62. @ya

    “Yup. If I take a jacked dude and make him watch a bunch of sad movies and then send him out to a bar where he’s not comfortable full of people he’s not comfortable around and wearing something he’s not comfortable in, so his subcomms are all fucked up, he’ll get fuck and all for results”

    yeah but being buff makes your state hard to fuck with. your internal chemistry is much diff, too. esp if you’re lifting and you’re doing something for cardio/functionality, like xfit. you FEEL very vigorous and ‘on.’

    if i was sitting there and bawling my eyes out a movie, and then rolled out for the night….just the act of moving and walking and feeling strong just straightens everything out.

    if i’m around people i don’t know, it doesn’t really matter because i feel strong. and that feeling just makes act strong. so my subcomms straighten themselves out quickly — even if i’m wearing loose sweats and no one can tell that I lift.

    the skinny-fat dude ceteris paribus probably won’t be able to recover his state as quickly when it’s broken. like if someone tools him on his shirt, that will be that, and his shirt is just this external thing….so once other ppl start saying his shirt sucks, he loses his confidence in it.

    if someone talks shit about my muscles…whatever….I FEEL strong and energetic every second of every day and that’s just gonna constantly reinforce my subcomms, so the idea of ‘my muscles don’t look that good’ doesn’t matter because ‘man i feel like a million bucks lol i’m the shit.’

    and the cardio is good for fucking…like you work them over the top and when they cum just jackhammer them hard and fast for a straight few minutes (compare it to running 10-11 mph for 3 minutes) to prolong it and give them multiples…and from the back, like, you’re in somewhat of a plank position, so you need strong core. and usually you need to hold her in place at the hip so you can keep going even as she spasms and stuff, so strong arms.

    if you’re fit enough to do that tho, not much benefit beyond.

  63. Muscles are attractive. It is true. Lol.

    Attraction is necessary to foster desire.

    Of course, if you’re a boring stick in the mud, you will lose the muscle advantage.

    I have been painfully skinny, I have been jacked, I have been slightly overweight. I fucked in each stage. It was demonstrably easier while jacked. Hands down.

    Buuuuttttt… I didn’t always choose bars and clubs to meet women.. That might be a different dynamic.

    Muscles: bring’em if ya got ’em.

  64. @blax

    “If a man tooka dump truck full of hormones and sat on his ass he would be weak and grow a set of D cups.”

    wrong.

    you can sit on your ass and take testosterone and gain several pounds of quality lean muscle. and a LOT more lean muscle than a dude busting his ass at the gym natty.

    “The men treated with testosterone but no exercise had an increase of 3.2 kg in fat-free mass, and those in the placebo-plus-exercise group had an increase of 1.9 kg. ”

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101

    “If it were a matter of exogenous hormones, every man would be big and strong.”

    exo hormones cost a lot of $$$. not everyone has it.

    but ya, pretty much if every man could afford it, ya every man would be big and strong. they wouldn’t all be equal because there’s a) genetic response to hormones and b) starting numbers.

    “Lol, but I am gonna give 46 year old coach a whipping for talking so much shit. In order to do this I must match or out work him.
    The work.”

    lol ok man, but CT Fletcher 100% certainly got to where he is by using a ton of hormones.

    “Having lost at least a third of the strength I’d had all through my 30’s and early 40’s, I am still much stronger than the majority of men my age.
    No more 500 pound bench presses. Settle for 300. 225 for multiple sets. Squats have suffered greatly but that’s okay.”

    lol if you were putting up 500 lbs on the bench NATTY then you were at a WORLD BEATING ELITE LEVEL…

    “Elite: An exceptional lifter, for males this means the lifter is very likely in the top 10 in the nation for their respective weight class and the lifter may be close to a top 5 ranking among comparable federations for that competition year. For females this means the lifter is very likely in the top 5 in the nation for their respective weight class and the lifter may be close to a top 3 ranking among comparable federations for that competition year. Elite lifters generally place very well at local level competitions and will usually hold their own at National level competitions. It is not uncommon for Elite level lifters to have 10+ years of experience with serious powerlifting training. Approximately 1% of competitive powerlifters will reach the Elite level of classification.”

    http://www.lift.net/2013/05/09/classification-standards-for-raw-elite-uspa/

  65. “How do they explain guys like Tyler and other skinny non-muscular PUAs consistently taking girls home when there are other better looking more jacked and richer dudes right beside them that the girls could choose instead?”

    my guess would be they don’t care. most people don’t care. mystery had a show on tv, right? no one watched. julian bombed that interview. no one cared. except puas.

    pulling 1000 really high-quality, stable, valuable, low n girls from nightclubs and bars might make a pua feel good, but in the grand scheme of things that number is statistically insignificant based on the number of women fucking every day of the week across the country and the world. the vast vast majority of women are not fucking puas. and shit tons of women will never set foot in a nightclub, let alone blow a tyler in the bathroom.

    “Professional card counters are prohibited from playing at our tables” – a sign in an Atlantic City casino, circa 1970.

    casinos didn’t like card counters in the 60’s because card counting works.

    “Pickup artists are prohibited from running game in our club” – a sign seen in no club, anywhere, ever.

    because no one cares.

    “it’s probably because I’m a crazed porn/sex addict who’s brain has been warped…”

    interesting idea. guys who watch lots of pronn think shit like, “every woman wants to be gangbanged if you don’t judge her”. this is simply not true.

    I once worked with a guy who had some uncommon sexual practices. for some reason he felt that he could talk to me because he was my supervisor and so I heard some weird shit over the year I was there. long story short his wife would fuck other dudes. he got off on this. guess what his biggest problem with it was?

    she wouldn’t do it often enough. she was too picky. she would only screw one guy at a time and she had to have feelings for him. she refused group sex and “gangbangs” and all the other pron stuff guys think is normal.

    this was a woman who had total freedom and encouragement to follow her most primal urges and what did she do? chose monogamy over and over again. he said this was very common in their lifestyle and all the guys were frustrated about it because these women could do whatever they wanted (AF/BB) with their husbands paying the bills and they chose to have a single lover and it was often this single lover that she would leave her beta husband for.

    pron is not real. it does not represent some deep hidden desire that women have. what it represents is a paycheck.

    of course women are sexual beings. to their core. but to think that every girl on earth longs to pull trains and blow puas in bathrooms is a joke.

    my guess is that nightclub girls who blow puas they just met in the bathroom are totally fucked in the head and not representative of anything but the manifestation of mental instability and carousel damage combined with alcohol and benzos and hormormal birth control.

    pron is ruining brains

  66. @ scray

    There are thousands of dudes benching 500 all over the country. It’s not uncommon.

    Hell, in high school, most linemen on the football team could bench 400, and they were kids basically.

    Idk about competitive lifting. I know about lifting.

    Lol, check out what the guys are lifting on YouTube and fletcher’s sites.

  67. Scray “the skinny-fat dude ceteris paribus probably won’t be able to recover his state as quickly when it’s broken. like if someone tools him on his shirt, that will be that, and his shirt is just this external thing….so once other ppl start saying his shirt sucks, he loses his confidence in it.”

    This I don’t see… at all. The guys with the strongest frames I’ve encountered actually have been queers…. little skinny flaming homo’s. LOL

    On the other hand, my roided out 6’2″ 220lb super aggro college roommate… killed with girls most of the time… a running joke was to just ask him if he was sick or something, missed lifting that day etc… would freak him out, he start posing in the mirror… chasing the pump. LOL Like clockwork.

    But strong frames…

  68. @blax

    “There are thousands of dudes benching 500 all over the country. It’s not uncommon.”

    k well here are the standards, again…

    https://rawpowerliftingontario.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/raw-powerlifting-classification-standards.pdf

    but ya, tons of dudes around the country are taking steroids, so….it’s possible that lots of hormone-assisted gym rats are putting up some good numbers…

    FYI Ahhhhnold -admitted steroid user- D-bol-breakfast-of-champions 6’2 230 Schwarzenegger’s BEST BENCH WAS 500 lbs.

    ‘Lol, check out what the guys are lifting on YouTube and fletcher’s sites.’

    You mean check out what a ton of dudes on hormones can do? lol

    CT FLETCHER IS A HORMONE MONKEY

    CT Fletcher’s dimensions are much larger than several bbers of similar size who USED A LOT OF STEROIDS — and HE’S > 50 YEARS OLD

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