Good Girls, Bad Girls

goodbad

Culum Struan requoted a really great thought from an old commenter, AnonymousBosch, on Heartiste’s blog from about a year ago and I thought it might make for some good weekend discussions:


All I’m getting at is that every woman has an almost psychopathic longing to destroy any perception of being ‘the good girl’. It’s the most common complaint you’ll hear from women:

“It’s so hard being good.”

Women long to indulge their emotions enough to risk being swept away by them, and it’s this self-indulgence that makes them at risk of being self-destructive: they reach a point where they just want to tear everything down, including the Good Girl, and, most commonly, their beauty. An example is hacking off their hair when they have a breakup.

It’s in their songs, it’s in their literature, it’s in their movies. The social pressure to ‘behave’ drives them to distraction, even as they conform to it, meaning they’re internalizing this constant battle to be both good and bad: wanting the social approval, rewards and status for being good but desperately-craving social stigmatization to the degree of martyrdom for being bad.

Feminism, at it’s core, is basically: “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!”

This is why it’s beloved of ugly chicks who can’t sexually compete, and those with obvious Daddy Issues.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

If you’re stoic, she gets to indulge her emotions with a safety net that stops her from self-destructing, and she will adore you for it. This is the masculine – feminine relationship. She gets to be weak, knowing you’re her rock. She doesn’t want to lash out at stone that crumbles, whilst simultaneously wanting strong shelter to hide against.

Sexual degradation is part of the risk, and you temper this by always being in control of the situation. Never let her think she’s leading: or her desperation to prove her devotion to you will take her into weird, disgusting places that destroy her.

If you’ve got your player on, I guarantee you will hear some variation of this: “I’d never do this with any other guy, but you make me want to do this and I’m not sure why.”

This is their sexuality out of control by their furious emotional desire to be owned by you – they are swept away – and this is where you need to reign them in with a strong hand and be ‘Daddy’. Otherwise she’ll get stupid notions in her head that by being sexually-outlandish, she’ll be the whore women believe all guys want their wives to be, not realizing that we don’t want to think of the mother of our children blowing dogs and wearing our shit, (unless that’s really your thing).

This is what destroys women and makes the light go out in their eyes: when they degrade themselves for a man they value highly-enough in the hopes of locking him down enough only to eventually disgust him.

Sometimes, the degradation is a sex thing, where she blurts out that she’d blow a horse for you.

Sometimes, it’s physical: she wants you to see her with running mascara and her hair hacked off so you can see how ‘wounded’ and ‘vulnerable’ you’ve made her.

Sometimes it’s emotional: stories of ‘being raped’ or being abused by Exes, designed to fire you up with masculine protective instinct, but instead make you see her as damaged goods. She thinks she is showing you how much she longs for you with these socially-transgressive displays – because Social Status is female currency and power – so deliberately lowering herself in a man’s eyes is the ultimate submission for her – but all she is doing is pushing you away.

During sex: always lead, always control, always structure what is happening. She wants to serve a strong man: show her how to so she doesn’t go off on self-destructive tangents. As McQueen used to say, don’t call her ‘a’ whore, call her ‘your’ whore. Your eyes are your strength here: if she’s sucking your dick, tell her to look at you, so she has nowhere to hide. Call her your ‘good girl’ as she does it.

Basically, structure a performance of faux-degradation and sexual submissiveness she can enact it that makes her feel she’s served a strong man, that stops her crossing into actual degradation, where it starts emotionally-messing her up and leaving scars.

That being said, Millennial Girls seem to possess a capacity for self-loathing and self-destruction I’ve never seen in previous generations.

So, take what is happening in this thread: the transfer of money for sexual degradation. It’s the same core process: she’s telling herself it’s about the money, but it’s about submission before the masculine: the trappings of supreme social and financial power. It’s about thinking she’s high value enough to be submitting to Princes and Kings, so the leap to being crapped on or blowing a dog to prove she is ‘a worthy consort’ is a small one for them.

Obviously, it makes no sense to us, but women seem to be clueless as to what behaviour actually makes them attractive, and not repulsive, to men.”


I think one of the reasons AnonymousBosch finds Millennial girls to be more debased is that these girls are the first generation to be counted among the sum result of a preceding 4 generations of feminist ideologies. Likewise, Millennial men are the products of that same 4-5 generations of emasculation, feminization and the deliberate obfuscation of what masculinity “really is” for them. This deserves some explanation.

I’ve gone into the timelines and the evolution of how Hypergamy has been released from social restraints, wholesale, on western society in my Adaptations series of posts, but it’s a good review to understand what AnonymousBosch is relating here; We keep returning to Hypergamy and its regulation as a basis for an expanded vision of social structure, but it’s important to remember the behavioral prompts that women’s biology predisposes them to in that respect. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution we’ve had a systematic conditioning for, and institutionalization of, a social order that prioritizes women’s Hypergamy as the predominant one.

Unilaterally female-controlled hormonal birth control was certainly a catalyst for this social shift, but it’s important to remember that for the past 4 generations women have been raised and acculturated in a social environment not only rooted in the fempowerment narrative, but also one that encourages the excesses of the ‘bad girl’ side of Hypergamy that AnonymousBosch describes here. And as I mention in that post, the social engineering that’s led to feminine-primacy (as well as erasing the inconvenient aspects of conventional masculinity) all centers on optimizing women’s Hypergamy.

So we experience 2-3 generations of women who are conflicted between what that Fempowerment narrative has taught them they should value and the conventional, evolved biological impulses that predispose them to appreciating, enjoying and submitting to sexy male dominance. Instead of being confused and agonizing over the traditional (old order) ‘Good Girl’ social restrictions that buffered the more damaging consequences of Hypergamy, now women agonize over the conflict between what Fempowerment has conditioned them to believe they should be attracted to in an “equal partner” (Beta Bucks) and their visceral sexual drive for ‘bad’ Alpha dominance in a man they want to lose themselves with.

They’ll still lay claim to the ‘Good Girl’ social convention when it suits their purpose (i.e. during the Epiphany Phase) to affirm their decisions to prioritize a need for long term security – or to excuse past Alpha Fucks sexual needs – but the primary conflict is still the same, an internal war between the contradicting aspects of her sexual strategies and how they influence her life’s decisions and different phases of her maturity.

In her SMV Peak years, “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!” is the message she adopts insofar as it serves her sexual strategy’s immediate interests. The conflict comes when she needs to temper this sentiment with a need to settle into a motherhood role and compromise it just enough to present the appearance of being a prudent choice for long term commitment.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

When men first come to Red Pill awareness about the motivations of women’s sexual strategy it’s very easy to see their behaviors as being intentional or their after-the-fact rationalizations for them as being convenient and expedient in excusing them. There is a definite design to the psychological and social schema women will use to explain their actions, particularly when they’re anti-social, sexist and/or damaging to the men who bear the worst of them.

Not to say men should tolerate this, but it’s important for men to understand the underlying psychology and motivators for women’s behaviors. It would seem AnonymousBosch has embraced this understanding. Again, it’s easy to think you’ll just put your foot down and not tolerate women’s bad behaviors, but this ignores those same female-motivators, sacrifices a real understanding of them and attempts to replace learning to maneuver them with the misguided hope that women will be rational agents and change their behaviors because we say so.

Men of this mindset believe the same ‘equalist’ hope that women will cease to be the “most mature teenager in the house” because they rationally explained to them that they should ignore their base motivators (Hypergamy) and act reasonably. This doesn’t work for women, nor does it work for men when women attempt to convince men to adopt a feminist mindset based on exactly the same appeal to reason. The boner doesn’t lie, and neither does women’s sexually strategic behavior.

In an age of unfettered, socially and legally affirmed Hypergamy it’s counterproductive to expect any woman to self-police her own sexual strategies by appealing to her reason.

The good news, as outlined by AnonymousBosch, is that Red Pill awareness and internalized Game are the same buffering contingencies for Hypergamy as they’ve always been. The trick for men now is to reestablish and embrace a connection to the conventional masculinity that’s been systematically conditioned out of men for 2-3 generations. In fact, there’s no better evidence of this Blue Pill conditioning than the common sense of counterintuitive-ness of embracing a masculinity that puts a man into a position of exercising the dominance women need.

5 4 votes
Article Rating

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Speak your mind

820 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

rugby11, that’s a true shame. Condolence to you and his family.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ HABD,

No more high reps/heavy squats for me. 20 reps spread out over 4 sets.

Dan John must be talking to younger cats.

I could probably finish 5o reps, but I will be bed ridden for a couple of days afterwards. lol. Hell, I’m wearing a knee brace right now typing this.

Nah. I’m taking it easier so I can last longer.

Thanks for the tip though. I’ll look through T Nation. I haven’t read their stuff for years now.

rugby11
rugby11
6 years ago
Reply to  Blaximus

@AR
Thank you brother. I’m going monk mode after this post.

@Tom
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fPtjGH3Uo-k

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Rugby:

Shit.

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@rugby11

My friend and rugby mate Blake just took his life.

that f*king sucks… my condolences… that happens too much…

good luck!

quixotic
quixotic
6 years ago

Damn great post and amazing comments section for this article. Love you guys; this is why the manosphere is the shit – we have room at the table for every type of man and thought-provoking conversation. I’ve been dealing with work and family health issues lately, so gaming has been sidelined as I deal with these. Still, all I have learned from you guys has helped me during some rough times. Game teaches you principles that apply to all areas of your life, not just women. The reframe. Dealing with rejection. Ignoring the pain and focusing on the prize. @Culum… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Dan John is 58 and is generally known for doing what he preaches:

http://danjohn.net/2012/05/training-for-middle-age-and-beyond/

On the other hand there’s this:

“At home, he is humbled by his lovely wife, Tiffini, whose middle name is not “long suffering” no matter how often it is repeated, and his two daughters, Kelly and Lindsay.”

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

scray and Rollo chopping it up. Both have excellent points. I’m anticipating that YaReally will soon appear and post up 36 inches of text and 10 videos any minute now. But quixotic said something that I happen to believe also, that women can sense high test levels ( and will react ). There are probably a metric ton of studies on the subject, which I will investigate time permitting, but it stands to reason that if women living together will sync up menstrual cycles, then why wouldn’t they have a measure of sensitivity to male hormones ( test ) if… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ kfg
Oh lawd ha-mercy!!!!!

“At home, he is humbled by his lovely wife, Tiffini, whose middle name is not “long suffering” no matter how often it is repeated, and his two daughters, Kelly and Lindsay.”

Thanks for the link.

On my way now…

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“Thanks for the link.”

Mind you there’s bits of that that make me roll my eyes pretty hard as well.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@rollo “There is a reason women prefer taller men and it’s not because ‘society’ convinced them to prefer them. ” what’s the reason? if it’s such a hard preference, why the huge amount of variation in human height? “you subscribe to the same social constructivism that fat-acceptance advocates do.” if you think that obesity has nothing to do with health, i guess. “This is one basic cross-cultural commonality for women. ” it isn’t “While women usually desire men to be at least the same height as themselves or taller, several other factors also determine male attractiveness, and the male-taller norm… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray – “myth making and social ‘repeat til true’ at its finest….” Your theory invalidates itself…

quixotic
quixotic
6 years ago

Thanks Blaximus! And @Rollo just killed the entire thread with his epic post at 4:44, fucking nailed it! Thank you rollo that was exactly what i was trying to say. RSD Nation/Tyler are using the same moves and signals as someone who is a 6’4″ jacked millionaire movie star athlete. That guy would have the real internals and externals women all universally want (which signal “alpha male for having babies” to women). Tyler and other smart men figured out how to reverse engineer that guys internal confidence, abundance mentality, body language, thought processes, basically all the things that a winner… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“I HAVE HIGH SOCIAL STATUS.”

Which is cool, until society says that high social status isn’t high social status anymore.

scray
scray
6 years ago

“RSD Nation/Tyler are using the same moves and signals as someone who is a 6’4″ jacked millionaire movie star athlete”

yup.

but what you guys can’t wrap your minds around apparently is that him being a 6’4 ‘star athlete’ DOESN’T MEAN anything.

the behaviors and social reinforcement that indicate he has HIGH SOCIAL STATUS mean everything

RSD and co are proving this every day and you guys just can’t let go of Chad T….

….

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray “the mere fact that human beings exhibit such high variability wrt physical traits should, in and of itself, demonstrate that any particular set of physical characteristics isn’t that important. ”

If you look at other groups, like athletes, elite military etc. there is a low degree of variability and a high degree of symmetry.

What would those that look like today’s athletes be in an earlier time? And what would those that look like accountants be, back before writing?

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Rollo and scray’s arguments are closely related and if they were to continue, they would reach practically 100% agreement. Rollo: ” Women at an all male strip show see these men and register a similar emotional response that registers as sexual urgency. Only in this case the women are filling in the blanks for themselves rather than having to be convinced of suitability by men who don’t look like their physical ideal.” I’ve seen this multiple times with my own orbs. A friend of mine, who was diagnosed as severely learning disabled when he way young and put in special… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@kfg

On the other hand there’s this:

“At home, he is humbled by his lovely wife, Tiffini, whose middle name is not “long suffering” no matter how often it is repeated, and his two daughters, Kelly and Lindsay.”

ya, but i’m not looking to him for game advice…lol… but he really cuts through the crap on lifting…lol…

and thanks for that link…

good luck!

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ kfg ” Which is cool, until society says that high social status isn’t high social status anymore.” I admit that I still struggle with the notion of ” social status “. Evidently I have a particular mental block about it. I think I grasp ” social proof ” a lot better. Maybe it’s the ” status ” part that gets stuck in my craw. sta·tus /ˈstādəs,ˈstadəs/ noun noun: status; plural noun: statuses 1. the relative social, professional, or other standing of someone or something. “an improvement in the status of women” synonyms: standing, rank, ranking, position, social position, level,… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Blaximus I admit that I still struggle with the notion of ” social status “. Evidently I have a particular mental block about it. I think I grasp ” social proof ” a lot better. that’s bc you are thinking that ‘status’ means your ‘rank’ in society…and that’s the BP/FI version (the one you quoted)… social status and social proof are similar but not the same. social proof = you are a cool enough guy above some threshold… social status = you are the coolest guy (above some threshold…lol)…the ‘high social status’ that scray is talking about is ‘in that… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ HABD

Lol… Got it.

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Blaximus

and about your mentally challenged buddy…

but I’ve also watched a ” mentally challenged ” stripping hunk snag chicks while barley being able to hold a conversation.

how were his subcomms?…was he needy?… put girls on a pedestal?…chased them?… offered to pay for shit if they would just let him hang around and ‘be friends’?…lol…

or did he have a solid frame?…

if so, the muscles were just a bonus to those girls…lol…

good luck!

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@ HABD

He definitely wasn’t needy. Subcomms… hmmm, I don’t know ( because I’m not a chick, use the men’s room without any confusion ). He didn’t really say much of anything. He answered when spoken to and basically looked disinterested because he kinda was.

Yes, he was solidly in ” his ” frame and it worked like a charm. Granted, chicks didn’t stick around any length of time, but he didn’t want them to either.

Win/win.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

oh yeah, he was more talkative when no women were around. When they showed up, he clammed up and went into his sullen, quiet thing. Women were drawn to it like birds to birdseed.

Never saw him chase a girl, he never spoke at length about them, he boned them hard and then was done with them. They made him uncomfortable outside of the bedroom.

redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@Rollo

On the promos, the guys do photo ops where they simply stand next to random women to get a selfie or a group shot. The guys say very little if anything to the women, yet just getting into close proximity with the guys is enough to evoke a physical reaction.

This understates the dynamic to the point it is misleading

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Blaximus Yes, he was solidly in ” his ” frame and it worked like a charm. and oh yeah, he was more talkative when no women were around. When they showed up, he clammed up and went into his sullen, quiet thing. Women were drawn to it like birds to birdseed. Never saw him chase a girl, he never spoke at length about them, he boned them hard and then was done with them. so, he had alpha stud subcomms, and he was big enough for the girls to cue off that as his ‘high social status’ in-group…so they were… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

I’m 6’2 and under 190, when I enter a bat, you bet your ass every cunt check me out and I don’t even have to approach, they approach moi and I gammmmmmmme I, I don’t even notice men who are shorter than me. So, ,tHere. http://www.mtlblog.com/2015/09/10-reasons-why-ill-never-date-a-short-guy/

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Evoking an unconditioned physical response.

Sometimes without saying 2 words.

Absolutely.

Hard to add anymore to this.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago
kfg
kfg
6 years ago

Nicole on Her Divorce: “Well I can wear heels now.”

Oh, snap!

And the thing is that while perusing the argument that hight doesn’t matter, I’ve been thinking, “Yeah, OK, but they still make Tom stand on a box.”

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
6 years ago

Evo psychology for dummies : 1. Short guys get insecure about their height I have never met a short guy who was completely comfortable with his own height. Most are extremely self-conscious to the point of making mean comments about my height. Like this guy, for example, said I am abnormally tall because I ate products affected by nuclear radiation back in USSR. It’s funny, we laughed about it. But it wouldn’t be funny if I told him that he’s short because he ate leprechaun food as a kid or something. 2. Short guys ask you to not wear heels Even though… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@Rollo If muscularity wasn’t sexy, if short fat balding older guys with good Game were the ‘rule’ no one would bat an eye when one of these guys stole away an HB9 from a guy with A&F quality looks. No one would say “Holy shit! Did you just see that video of the pudgy ginger guy swoop that swimsuit model?” It’s not social conditioning that makes that an incredible act. social conditioning (the FI) is EXACTLY what makes that an incredible act…lol… bc that’s NOT suppose to happen…lol… the narrative says that girls are only supposed to go for the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

Height: I’ve known about two couples where the woman was taller than the man. Two. In one case the man is a good 7 years older than his woman. One of the 30-something women in my social circle who can’t seem to get married is about 6’0″ which might have something to do with her problem. It’s not even debatable that women prefer a man who is taller than they are, nor is it debatable that they may settle (for a night, or for longer) with a man who is shorter than they are if the attraction is high enough,… Read more »

EC
EC
6 years ago

How do heels have anything to do with evolutionary psychology.

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

lol at this looks vs game argument that always pops up. I’d like to try and end this debate. The rollos/blax versus the scrays/yareallys are arguing about the SAME thing. Looks and game are BOTH attractive to women, because the signal a high value man. That is, a man who’s confident, passionate, leader of men, protector, etc. Now, looks get an instant reaction, not because they are superior to game, but because they are easy to convey. You can see an athletic man and he LOOKS intimidating, he LOOKS confident, he LOOKS like a leader. But how do you show… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
6 years ago

@digireaper

You still around digireaper? Haven’t heard from you in a while. How are things

having a bad day
having a bad day
6 years ago

@kfg

And the thing is that while perusing the argument that hight doesn’t matter, I’ve been thinking, “Yeah, OK, but they still make Tom stand on a box.”

gotta feed the narrative…lol

good luck!

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“They LOVE working out. They are PASSIONATE about it.”

Actually, the first order effect is that I like to go fast on wheels.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

KILLER thread \ discussion. Thanks to everyone for making me think harder and deeper, and laugh too.

Keep expressing your views. It is epic stuff.

I’m gonna end my long ass day and mash my face into a pillow.

Until tomorrow gentlemen.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@rollo “Why do you suppose that is? Evo-psych attempts to answer this, but if you have a better one I’m open to opinions.” first of all, after studies like this… http://bernard.pitzer.edu/~dmoore/2005_Chivers%26Bailey_sex%20diff%20to%20bonobo%20films.pdf why do you think ‘evoking a physiological’ female response means much, if anything, wrt the trait in question? in that study, women were aroused by NONHUMAN sexual activity…. the main predictor was…..sexual activity. that was what ‘evoked a physiological response.’ so ‘evoking that -unconditioned- response’ seems to be as simple as doing something sexual or depicting sexual activity or whatever… so why do I suppose women act the way… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . .so ‘evoking that -unconditioned- response’ seems to be as simple as doing something sexual or depicting sexual activity or whatever…”

So, if being tall and muscular evokes the response, it implies that being tall and muscular is in and of itself doing something sexual.

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
6 years ago

I find it hilarious so few of you have been both out of shape and ripped to know that looks do matter to women. They’re not a deal breaker as often as they are for us, but listening to people who can barely fuck while standing say muscles or looks don’t matter is silly and indulging the same kind of limiting beliefs guys with no game make about how looks are all that matters and game doesn’t. Unless you’re blind as a bat, looks do matter quite a bit. They won’t get you laid by themselves to a hot girl,… Read more »

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

I agree with Oldoligarch. Case in point: my friend who’s skinny as a rail and has a 1200+ N count is hung like a horse. I can’t remember how many stories he’s told me about girls taking out measuring tapes, saying stuff like “Holy shit,” “that’s the biggest dick I’ve ever seen,” etc., oohing and ahhing over it. Is that why he got laid? No. But sometimes it was. Sometimes some girl just heard he had a big dick and that would be enough of an opener to get the ball rolling. When I was in better shape I had… Read more »

ECM
ECM
6 years ago

Yo guys, read this:

http://theplacetorant.com/ugly-creepy-guys/

If that’s the future of feminism, I think I’m on your side.

YaReally
6 years ago

http://sev.h-cdn.co/assets/16/15/1460762152-tumblr-m8piye7dmt1raofpio1-500.gif I’ll stop posting 50 pages about this when you guys stop posting innacurate theory that doesn’t hold up infield and puts guys on a slower path to learning solid game skills lol The second I stop seeing that stuff I’ll stop posting about this. It’s heartwarming to see that a few guys are getting it (props to Scray for holding down the fort so far) @scray “yeah but being buff makes your state hard to fuck with. your internal chemistry is much diff, too. esp if you’re lifting and you’re doing something for cardio/functionality, like xfit. you FEEL very… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

Part 2 because I actually got an “Error: Your comment is too long” message lolol ENJOY: @hank holiday “lol at this looks vs game argument that always pops up.” I’d love if people would just listen and go infield and I wouldn’t have to explain this anymore lol “Even if every girl was a martial arts master and threw around big dudes all the time, it would STILL be shocking, because the physical SIZE of the guys is obvious to everyone, but you can’t see SKILL or KNOWLEDGE. Give a guy who’s afraid of heights the chance to stand on… Read more »

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
6 years ago

“And even FASTER is to learn how to spike a couple girls’ buying temperatures to make them giggle and laugh in a bar lol No one notices the jacked silent guy standing by himself when Tyler is doing a 3-way makeout with two hot girls in front of the guy, all eyes are on Tyler” These idiotic comparisons are meaningless and I explained why. You’re as illogical as SJWs when it comes to this. Nobody is claiming that if you’re jacked, you’ll have tens sucking your dick in a bar’s bathroom before you open your trap(straw man argument) and nobody… Read more »

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
6 years ago

Yes, it couldn’t have been that I played basketball and started to lift because I wanted to slam dunk at the time and then just realized not being out of breath after running after a bus, being able to carry grocery bags or water without a sweat etc. Looks, social proof, money etc are DHVs. Will you say DHVs don’t do shit now to keep rationalizing why you’ve been lazy? See, everyone can play captain shrink. 😉 Instead of pushing this absolutist looks don’t matter at all view, you could argue for things that are both true and help: 1)game… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

@TheOldOligarch “Nobody is claiming that if you’re jacked, you’ll have tens sucking your dick in a bar’s bathroom before you open your trap(straw man argument)” Really? Cause so far I’ve seen Rollo post: “But the thing is, all these examples here is based on attraction on the body alone. I am NOT working to get these women. My body is doing 99% of the attracting. I can just be a statue and get a response. (But of course, you have to take action. This is based on doing zilch.)” “The guys say very little if anything to the women, yet… Read more »

YaReally
6 years ago

How does Julien start his nights? Nice and simple…SO simple you can all do it THIS weekend, however you look (again notice his subcomms when he goes in to hug her, just assuming success even when he’s running low-key lame game): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dURS5fQ12no Here’s a demonstration of calibration when he crosses the line too far with his hardcore asshole game and because he has FIELD EXPERIENCE knowing how to recover from fuckups to still pull: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AH-YBq94nw Julien getting rejected (“PUAS NEVER POST THEIR REJECTIONS!!1111 ITS ALL A SCAM!!!”), really legitimately pay attention to his needy/outcome dependent subcomms (listen to his voice,… Read more »

stuffinbox
6 years ago

Damn I love you guys.With two older sisters,running the women’s lib gamut of the seventies.I grew up with a knowledge of what women wanted.BUT it wasn’t till my buddies guys like Ya ,Scray,Rollo started studying PUA and sharing their knowledge with me that I learned how to consistently score chicks.With my looks and the social skills I learned from these guys I earned the nick name old KY,I used to get teased”come along girls,the name is Bond ,James Bond”. After tying the knot at twenty,these guys were always trying to get me out,my wife learned to hate them. There is… Read more »

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@YaReally, I agree that internals are the real externals, but I’d still encourage you to get in better shape. You mention wasting time getting in shape that could have gone toward pickup, but I’d argue that you have mastered game enough and can spend a bit of time on getting in shape. And by a bit of time, I mean time that you can steal from dead time, for examples: 1. When cooking food on the stove, do body-weight squats, jump squats, pushups against the counter, jumping jacks. 2. When pissing, you can do calf raises. 3. When walking out… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

@YaReally If men just own their masculinity unashamedly, realizing its awesome benefit, subcomms will follow. Just don’t try to be a woman like the FI preaches. That’s 90% of internals. Works even if you’re poor, fat, bald, and old. I have a dick. I have muscles. I can take risks. I’m bigger. I’m better at sports. I’m more creative. Focus on your benefits from being a man especially if some woman raising you uploaded a FI program to sabotage your internals. Then learn to laugh at that program and realize that the program is just bullshit. Those programs only have… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
6 years ago

Wow the Pook reference was amazing, certainly puts things into perspective. As I’ve gotten older and more muscular I found that average girls literally ignore me while all of a sudden attractive women are approaching me out of nowhere and initiating conversations. Being a social spaz I couldn’t discern a pattern, simply didn’t make sense why some women (unattractive) were being aggressively mean while others (attractive) spontaneously approached. Since I saw them as a collective rather than rank my mind was literally stuck in a cognitive dissonance loop. To me it seemed like something out of the twilight zone. Holy… Read more »

theasdgamer
6 years ago

I’ve had to learn to deal with bullshit people have been throwing my way when I go out. The bullshit only has power if I allow it to have power. Just like those sabotage programs we get fed when we are children only have power if we allow them to have power.

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
6 years ago

newlyaloof, I haven’t went to the gym in a while because I’ve been on a lazy streak after not going in January and February(crowded as fuck then). Doing pushups, squats and different exercises with dumbbells at home while I cook, do laundry etc. Doing a couple hundred pushups and situps a day and a dumbbell workout takes very little time this way and if men did this, they’d have better bodies than the vast majority of men do now. YaReally,I agree with you about game, it’s just that since I do bother to read your comments more than the comments… Read more »

TheOldOligarch
TheOldOligarch
6 years ago

“When pissing, you can do calf raises.”
Remind me not to let you use the toilet if you’re ever in my house. XD

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

I hate watching Julien infield. He’s so good I just want to throw my hands in the air… lol. Fuuuuuck. My social conditioning has me by the balls. I need something to be wrong (FI definition of wrong) with my life for justification.

newlyaloof
6 years ago

@Oligarch, haha, my aim is good, but seriously, you can even just do one calf raise and pause at the top for the whole time. it’s a good burn either way. Or when you walk up any steps, do calf raises at the top step for a bit. Point being, get your Fit On any way you can.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ YaReally I have major work to do on my internals. Speaking of my big dick friend (lol @ #homo…to Ya’s credit I probably only talk about my friend like he’s a hero because he has good subcomms etc., he is a guy that other guys want to be so anything he does/says comes off as ‘cool’ because he holds himself in a frame of very high value at all times)…. 4 out of the 5 girls that have seen my dick have complimented it like crazy. I’ve also regularly gotten compliments on my general looks throughout my life. But… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . most guys won’t hit the gym AND sarge on the same day, usually they’ll pick one or the other . . .” My experience is exactly the opposite; guys who think they need to go the gym to be attractive to girls won’t go out to sarge without going to the gym immediately prior. Tyler could be getting leaner while he is sarging those girls. It doesn’t take any time out of your day. If anything it saves a bit. He could be getting more muscular during the time he spends staring at his microwave waiting… Read more »

Agent P
Agent P
6 years ago

Seems like this thread is locked into a dumb kind of false binary argument. To me it seems like this WRT being jacked, good looking vs game etc. There is no versus here, it’s all additive. I see this all as a threshold game. If I may… Any chick has a threshold you have to get above and stay above for some period of time to be able to fuck her. If she is not on the “market” the threshold would have to be higher to get her to break her “commitment” etc. But for now, just allow me that… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . by a bit of time, I mean time that you can steal from dead time . . .”

Exactly.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

@ Oldoligarch Not to mention the benefits of being healthy in general. I swear that I mostly cured my bipolar disorder by paying attention to circadian rhythm and altering my diet and lifestyle. Along with a lot of other mental/emotional issues. Still some major ones left but I used to have insane manic depressive episodes and some psychotic behavior. If you look into nutrition and diet you will find a million things linking nutritional issues with severe mental illness. When you take care of your body, it will do a much better job performing for you the way you want… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

“Seems like this thread is locked into a dumb kind of false binary argument.” Exactly. Saying visual stimulus does not create “A” response is silly. And saying some responses only exist as a result of social conditioning ignores the fact that social conditioning is based on the aggregated results of visual responses. Social conditioning is the tail on this dog. Now some of this is becoming distorted via technology… However – you are on a dark street, alone, it is deserted and around the corner comes this: Your brain has an immediate reaction. Same street, same corner now around it… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago
Bromeo
Bromeo
6 years ago

“The guys say very little if anything to the women, yet just getting into close proximity with the guys is enough to evoke a physical reaction. Nipples perk up, they fan themselves, eyes dilate, a logical guess would be they also get wet. These men’s presence is enough to involuntarily prompt a physical response in these women, and that physical response is their bodies preparing themselves for sexual intercourse.”

I’d rather get jacked at the gym and gain all the associated health benefits then stare at my computer screen watching hours of pua infield footage lol

Agent P
Agent P
6 years ago

@Sentient
I don’t know, I had an immediate response to both those images that was similar, an urge to punch both of them in the face. Perhaps the exception proves the rule.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago
redlight
redlight
6 years ago

@rollo By this logic it should make no difference in arousal response if a man is grossly disfigured then. This is a strawman. Don’t debate like you are using too much of your products. Oh wait, that’s ad hominem and that’s being used here as well. Looks are a factor. Logistics are a factor. Competition is a factor. However to say that Game is not the critical success factor is inaccurate, like saying just Money+Looks is enough, which is another Blue Pill myth. Take the hit for the team. Stop lifting and use the time to fuck multiple women. FR.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Sentient:

The pool is the exclamation point, not the sentence. My point was that Ya Really portrayed Vegas as it were all the pool and James Bond playing the wheel. Vegas attracts those people, sure, in order to attract the hordes of dumpy, middle aged conventioneers that it actually runs on.

@Agent P:

Yeah, but you want to punch them for different reasons.

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Oh wanted to add to my post that timeless sayings like “beauty is only skin deep” and “you can’t judge a book by its cover” exist for a reason.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@rollo “By this logic it should make no difference in arousal response if a man is grossly disfigured then.” does it? ‘No matter what their self-proclaimed sexual orientation, they showed, on the whole, strong and swift genital arousal when the screen offered men with men, women with women and women with men. They responded objectively much more to the exercising woman than to the strolling man, and their blood flow rose quickly — and markedly, though to a lesser degree than during all the human scenes except the footage of the ambling, strapping man — as they watched the apes.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . they’re into bestiality and stuff, naturally?”

Yes.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@kfg

‘Yes.’

then it follows that they can’t be (naturally) particularly picky wrt which HUMAN men turn them on, if random primates get them going.

betathrowaway
betathrowaway
6 years ago

This “looks don’t matter” discussion is annoying me because I see a lot of smart people who I respect talking past each other. I understand why the “it doesn’t matter” guys are arguing that. They don’t want it to be an excuse or a crutch. But you guys have acknowledged that it does matter in previous statements, but only in very specific, limited ways. Which I can attest to, as someone who has gotten some attention for looks and blown it with shitty game. I think this discussion would become productive and more accurate if we stuck more to the… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

@Scray: “. . . then it follows that they can’t be (naturally) particularly picky wrt which HUMAN men turn them on . . .”

No, it doesn’t. It is what it is, not what you think it should be.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@betat “Why does everyone love having the nature vs nuture debate without the kind of evidence to prove anything? Saying that since preferences have some mutability means there are no innate preferences is silly” because it’s usually the ‘bio’ ‘nurture’ ‘whatever’ side asserting the ‘truth’ (as in SCIENTIFIC truth) of the matter without that level of evidence. and it’s not just that the preferences ‘are mutable.’ it’s that the preferences appear to have left almost no evolutionary signature wrt to variance on the supposedly selected for traits. if they’re so important and so strongly selected for, why is there so… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

ECM, nah, that’s not the “future of feminism”, that’s just a typical entitled American “special snowflake” girly who isn’t close to 30 years old.

Yet.

When she approaches the Wall, and her looks start noticeably fading, she’ll likely start wondering why all the Hawt Guyz aren’t hitting on her anymore. She’ll get angry about the younger bitchez that attract all the attention, and she’ll vocally whine about the shortage of Good Men, etc.

It’s totally predictable. Her SMV is at peak. It’s all downhill from here.

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“No, it doesn’t. It is what it is, not what you think it should be.” Jesus… You guys are going through some really fascinating mental gymnastics here… “2.) I can post you about 20 clinical studies right now that directly link women’s ovulatory phase to various attraction cues (Ovulatory Shift). In the proliferative phase women’s vocal intonations get lower, they become proceptive to sexual interaction with men with masculinized features; square jawline, masculinized faces, muscularity, they register the scent of testosterone and are generally more open to sexual advances from dominant, aggressive, confident men.” So does watching Rhino’s fucking. They… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

Scray

“” Saying visual stimulus does not create “A” response is silly”

“no one said that.”

Everyone that says looks don’t “matter” [i.e. factor in, have an effect on behavior etc.] is saying just that. Maybe without realizing it though.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . that’s not the “future of feminism”, that’s just a typical entitled American “special snowflake” girly . . .”

Right. She used the language of feminism because that is the language she speaks, not because the concepts she was talking about are feminist.

And we have already called out “ECM” for saying exactly the same thing.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@kfg ‘No, it doesn’t. It is what it is, not what you think it should be.’ that’s true, you can always drop in epicycles to save Chad Thundercock theory. @rollo “Why is social dominance an attraction trigger and not introversion and social reservation? Because that dominance is a cue women’s evolved psychological firmware registers as being survival-beneficial and thus representative of a good breeding choice.” the real answer is NO ONE KNOWS and people have made up a bunch of just-so stories. it could be that social dominance became important once people settled into agricultural societies that placed a premium… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
6 years ago

In other news… this was hilarious:

The Goop sex woman is, it appears, a rich, humourless, vegan neurotic, for whom successful consensual sex is just another hoop to jump through on the road to “total wellbeing”. There is no fun without a warning attached, no orgasm without an essay, and no intimacy without a shopping opportunity. Goop sex is, in short, joyless, box-ticking and anxious.

Women, with too much time and money, ruin everything… for everyone.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/11/joylessness-goop-sex-gwyneth-paltrow-sex-issue

scray
scray
6 years ago

@rollo “Now, for all of that, we still come back to the chicken or the egg debate. Looks begets options, options begets confidence. This is one way of looking at the confidence, dominance and emotionally triggering behavior that registers as arousal/attraction for women.” ya and your iron rule is correct. it doesn’t need any qualification. at all. your looks impact you only because you were born in a society conditioned to respond to your looks in a certain way, and in turn, your society conditions YOU in a certain way — if you’re red-headed and short or whatever, you DON’T… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
6 years ago

YaReally
@Anonymous Reader
“I’ve known about two couples where the woman was taller than the man. Two. In one case the man is a good 7 years older than his woman.”

I know a 5’2″ scrawny little guy who looks like a hobbit who’s consistently dated (short term flings and long term multi-year LTRs) hot girls significantly taller than him. Why? Because his frame is ROCK SOLID.

That’s pretty much what I said. You’re agreeing with me.
So what’s your point?

PS: “some” and “all” are not synonyms.

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . you can always drop in epicycles . . .” Epicycles are to create connections to where non are apparent to save a model against empirical observation. I am saying that there is no reason to assume such a connection. In asserting that there must be a connection you are demanding I supply epicycles and thus interpret my response as epicycles. “. . . Chad Thundercock theory.” I have no Chad Thundercock theory. I do, however, reject Tabula Rasa theory. Just as I reject the Machine theory of the radical behaviourists. As I have said before, my… Read more »

Andy
Andy
6 years ago

“The unsolicited IOIs a man gets when he’s in shape are a springboard to that self-image and confidence, which in turn is affirmed and reinforced by women’s arousal and desire for intimacy with him.”

Meh. You’re assuming that that person has a certain level of game. Even when girls are initially attracted to you, a good conversation about philosophy will dry that pussy right up. Guess what happens to your confidence when that happens enough.

scray
scray
6 years ago

@kfg ‘Epicycles are to create connections to where non are apparent to save a model against empirical observation.’ yup. women are SUPER picky wrt to their ‘visceral responses’…but they’re also NATURALLY into fucking random animals. i understand that you baldly asserted that the latter doesn’t undermine the other, tho. @rollo ‘I’ve been corresponding with Chivers, Haselton and Gangstad for a long time now.’ your interpretation of it is interesting: ‘On some level of consciousness they’re keenly aware that men’s primary interest in them is fucking – everything else is ancillary to sex. The value a woman has beyond the sexual… Read more »

820
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x
%d bloggers like this: