Ghosts in the Machine

ghosts_inthe_machine

Hollenhund had an interesting response to a question posed in last week’s post that I thought I might come back to here:

1) Why is there “yourbrainonporn” for men, and not “yourbrainonyourdildocollection” for women? “yourbrainoneroticnovels” “yourbrainon50shadesofgray” “yourbrainonTwilight” “yourbrainonhavingtoomanyorbiters” “yourbrainongettingtoomanymessagesinyourinboxonokcupid”? MEN are the ones that it’s a “problem” if they want variety. MEN are the ones that have to change. MEN are the ones that have to fight their biology. hmmm…I wonder why THAT is. Maybe to help create more Softeks, where the girl can cheat on her boyfriend with him and then shame him for looking at another girl

I doubt their goal is that specific. This new narrative about porn addiction being a public health problem is obviously seen by its supporters as yet further ground for political consensus between feminists and social conservatives. It’s not that feminists want to turn the porn industry, or what remains of it, into a political target again, it’s that they need a narrative that is aligned with the Feminine Imperative and moves public discourse about the mating market away from subjects they, and women in general, are very uncomfortable with.

As long as the mainstream media pushes this narrative about young men getting addicted to online porn and thus opting out of the mating market, it will largely stifle any public discourse about the popularity of female emotional porn (romantic literature), and also the real potential causes of widespread porn use, like the drop in average female quality on the mating market and unrestrained hypergamy. Social conservatives, feminists, and the majority of common folk will, of course, be happy to put all blame on men for any social problem, real or not. And it’s very obvious that porn addiction isn’t a problem they want to actually do anything about, it’s more like an excuse for women to whine and moan. Frankly I’m very skeptical about the whole issue of porn addiction, because if something just happens to perfectly fit into the Feminine Imperative, it’s probably no accident. And one wonders how much scientific evidence there actually is for it.

I’ve addressed the physiological and social associations of male masturbation in the past in The Pheromonal Beta, as well as Pathologizing the Male Sexual Response. The “lively” discussion about male masturbation in this week’s comments notwithstanding, the topic du jour in the Twittershpere also seemed to coincide with this topic.

Personally, I think the ‘moral’ dictates about jerking off follows evolutionarily pragmatic reasons for male shame in masturbation while female masturbation is an arousal cue and seen as a positive. Female masturbation is a cue for sexual availability while male masturbation is essentially a Beta Tell.

That’s the nuts and bolts of it from the bio-evolutionary perspective, but as with all other inherently male thumbscrews, the Feminine Imperative has long exploited the sociological implications of men’s need for sex. One thing that slips by relatively unnoticed with social conventions that serve the Feminine Imperative is that the same presumptions that would serve a masculine (in this case sexual) imperative are always shamed or stereotyped – that is until they come into a context that is  useful to the feminine.

Sex Sells What?

“Sex sells” is a cliché that can be used in the positive for women, but it is always a negative for men. For women, sold sex in advertising, romantic literature, the meteoric popularity of ‘divorce porn’ for married  women, or really any media that stimulates women’s sexual interests is always seen as positive, empowering and exceptional. Even if what their being sold is seedy or can have a potentially negative consequence, in a feminine-primary social order women ‘own’ sex from today’s social perspective. In other words, society at large is expected to defer to women on issues of sex and, by association, romance, love, etc.

Women can still be sold  something or induced to buy a product or to adopt a mindset, but that article or the message that’s meant to be internalized is associated with the ‘positive’ of a sexual inference with women.

For men, male sexuality is always a negative association unless that sexuality is expressed in a way that complements women’s sexual strategy. Something being sold via sex to men is either seen as preying upon an inherent weakness (or dependency) for sex or it’s paired with ridicule for men being typical ‘pigs’ and they’re unable to dissociate sex from the objectification of women. So ingrained is this shame-association that men have adapted sexual competition strategies around it in order to identify better with women in the hopes they will be perceived as “not like other, typical, sex hungry men” and that their intimate interests are motivated by something more ephemeral that sex.

The social utility of this shame-association, of course, parallels the utility of Male Catch 22 for the Feminine Imperative, but there’s a useful  duplicity for women in this inescapable shame of male sexuality. For instance, when women seek to convince both themselves and men that fat-acceptance and “changing the standards of beauty” should be men’s metric for wanting to fuck and pair with less desirable women, we see the usefulness of that duplicity. Men are useful in the perception that they’re sexually uncontrollable pigs for being so gullible as to allow “society” and advertising agency to define what they think is arousing.  However, the Feminine Imperative will readily use (or attempt to use) that same weakness  to exploit men into acting against their own, evolved, sexual best interests by selling them the ideal of accepting fat women as a new standard of beauty.

There are no feminine parallels for the pathologizing of the female sex response because those would simply be hindrances to women optimizing their Hypergamous imperatives. Why are there no “yourbrainonporn” sites for women? Why are there no XXXChurch equivalents for the ladies? Why are there no support groups for women ‘addicted’ to romance novels or divorce porn movies? Because that exclusively male pathologizing is only beneficial to the female sexual strategy.

This is the depth of control that the female-primary imperative seeks over men – that our most base biological, existential need should be distorted and psychologically molded by shame to the point of instilling lifelong neurosis and conditioning fear-based gender self-loathing to effect women’s sexual strategy above all other considerations.

I’ll quote the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies once more here: for one sex’s strategy to succeed the other’s must either be compromised or abandoned. Whether subtly instilled or publicly shame-conditioned, associating men’s sexuality with sickness or perversion, weakness, and disability, the underlying purpose is an effort in convincing men to abandon any claim to their own sexual imperative in favor of that of women’s.

Slut Shaming

If this seems like a sea change from the old order days when women were shamed for even the hint of promiscuity while men were lauded for their own sexual exploits, what you’re seeing is the societal shift to feminine social primacy. There was a time when sexual indiscretion was something that shamed women. Today, it’s almost laughable that there should be a need for a social convention like “slut shaming”. There is no such social referencing, but if men on whole can be put to shame for the belief that other men might still cling to older order reservations about women’s sexual exploits it serves to place women’s sexual strategy above that of men’s.

There is always the old standby – the horrible “double standard” about men banging a lot of women being heroes while women who bang a lot of men are sluts (“it sooooo unfair!”). This is a laughable, antique social convention in an era of slut walks and female-centric birth control, but it’s still the reflexive go-to trope when the mechanics of pathologizing men’s sexuality comes to light.

Sex-positive feminism has always been a two-edged sword for women. That positivity ‘fempowers’ women so long as they cling to the old order missives about the Patriarchy repressing that sexuality while it simultaneously disqualifies their complaints of it as Hypergamy becomes more and more openly embraced.

Ghosts in the Machine

Hollenhund continues for us:

YaReally and hoellenhund, you’re talking about all this VR porn stuff but isn’t this basically the same dynamic as prostitution? Same kind of alternative sexual relief (that is not your wife) and same reason why the FI shames prostitutes and men who use prostitutes etc..because they lower the “price” of sexual release..?

YeReally has already answered your question well, I’d say. He brought VR porn up, I didn’t, because I was observing the current situation, not something that only exists today as a potential future development.

I’d add that the dynamic is somewhat different. Apparently the state is willing to penalize prostitution, at least to a degree that makes it sufficiently risky and expensive for many men to avoid it, and the majority of women and their male bootlickers are willing to support political efforts to suppress it. Neither of that applies to pornography of any sort. Women will complain about it, they will support a narrative that portrays it specifically as a problem caused by men, but it’s not like anyone actually wants to make an effort to do something about it. Do you think any woman wants to date, or have sex with, a reformed porn addict? Do you think women want porn addicts to get out of the basement, get their shit together, and hit on women in order to get real-life sex?

For the record, I’m not going to deny that excessive masturbation is unhealthy, or that excessive porn use can elicit unrealistic expectations of sex in a mind of an inexperienced man. Anything should be done in moderation, that goes without saying. But the current public discourse on porn and its effects is complete BS.

I’ve forgotten where I saw the quote posted, so I’ll paraphrase it a bit (I think it may have been Illimitable Man), but there’s a new concept I read about how human beings’ experience of consciousness is now assuming a new, third, aspect – the immediate, the internal and now, the virtual.

The immediate experience is one in which you directly relate with people in real time. It’s you physically and vocally interacting with others. The internal is the conversations you have with yourself and both your conscious and subconscious interpretation of what you’re experiencing, learning, behaving, etc. (i.e. what you’re thinking).

However, the virtual (or digital) aspect of consciousness is something humans have only recently developed and are now on the cutting edge of really understanding. The virtual experience is what I’m doing now as I type this post. I’m relating to you what’s going on in my thought process (to the degree of which I’m aware of it) in a virtual medium. Virtual porn, virtual games, virtual shopping, etc., really anything you do in a digital realm is part of this new form of ‘being’.

Humans in 2016 experience things in ways that our forebearers could scarcely dream of. Our immediate and internal experiences are now being informed by out virtual experiences – in accelerated ways that I don’t think most people really appreciate. The Feminine Imperative is now fighting to establish a foothold in this virtual experience. Thus, we see efforts like GamerGate meant to lock down a control over how men will be allowed to experience this virtual reality. We also see the preliminary efforts to both socially and legislatively institute feminine-primary controls over yet to be developed possibilities of virtual experiences.

Jerking off to ubiquitous, free, online porn is one such experience that the Feminine Imperative has had to play catch-up to with regard to restricting men’s access to it. And thus, we get contingent social controls from the imperative to counter this lack. It’s not enough that men be shamed for their sexual response to online porn. The accessibility makes this impractical, but there’s really no ‘sales’ transaction for which men would feel their sexual “weakness” being exploited.

However, the counter to this then becomes making men’s sexuality itself a disease. “Porn Addiction”, sex addiction, in a religious context even ‘impure thoughts’ become a disease not to be cured, but to be managed by women – women’s definitions, women’s approvals and disapprovals, women’s sexual strategy interests.

And porn is just the tip of the iceberg with regard to the Feminine Imperative’s controls of men’s virtual experiences with women.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

… okay, if I did, I will just repeat myself and chalk it up to Alzheimer’s. Anyway, there was a huge commotion close to the entrance. People started screaming and clapping and jumping around. On further observance I could see that Mike Tyson was entering the club, with about 10-15 guys pushing the crowd back and clearing a path. A woman in the crowd kinda jumped forward towards Tyson. I was standing maybe…10 feet or so back at the time. I’m not sure if it was on purpose or not, but the chick wound up kinda throwing herself on Tyson.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

It’s just their rolodex. They don’t really know how to get what they want because they don’t really run into guys who don’t GIVE them what they want, so they don’t know what to do to get it and flip through a bunch of the rolodex throwing tantrums and drama and shit trying anything. And often that works and that’s how they lock down a Softek. 😉 This right here would cause any number of people I know to have a major meltdown. Because it’s truth is plain to see, but it’s totallly incongruent with the “women are wonderful” mindset.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Blaximus, 1911’s, Glocks, S&W or what?

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ AR

2 1911’s. Had them since I was 18. I had a S&W, but I sold it.

I also had a berretta 9mm, nickel plated, but I think it was manufactured by Smuckers, because it always jammed. Problematic always.

I love the .45’s. Colts are wonderful firearms. S&W are great too, so are Glock’s, but I have a thing for the Colts.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ stuff

Lol….

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

off by 10 miles or so, but close.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

http://451.mlsimages.movoto.com/098/3103398_0.jpg

I know where this is though…

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago
Motsognir
Motsognir
5 years ago

How mundane can you be? Masturbation is for plebs.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Motsognir

I will respond as soon as I finish masturbating… brb

Lawrence
Lawrence
5 years ago

Scribblerg, what is your email? I understand if you don’t want to divulge that.

Roused
Roused
5 years ago

Was traveling for work this week, good productive trip meeting up with some pretty smart folks. Just now getting back to TRM and saw this comment by Blax. That dude is just riffing way with great shit! Killing me! “That drive will also make them chase. That drive will also make them submit. That drive will make them prepare tasty post sex sandwiches.” LMFAO about the sandwiches. Love it when my GF springs out of bed and says she is going to make some grub for us after sweaty coitus. Last week she took a bunch of mangy stuff I… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Yareally preaching…

” They don’t really know how to get what they want because they don’t really run into guys who don’t GIVE them what they want, so they don’t know what to do to get it and flip through a bunch of the rolodex throwing tantrums and drama and shit trying anything. And often that works… ”

Listen up… save you a lot of headaches… and it’s all girls and it never ends… looped over and over…

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walawala
walawala
5 years ago

@YaReally thanks. Xsplat made a good point about congruency. But his game and mine are veryvdifferent. I’ve never paid for a girl apart from the usual drinks or whatever. But they always reciprocate in some tangible way…gifts , cooking , cleaning up, etc. On the issue of drama and dealing with it. I think this girl has those BPD traits I was good at avoiding. The ultimatum sparked an agree and amplify response because it tapped into my own competitive instinct not to be tooled. The reality is she likely wanted a way to rationalise getting away from me and… Read more »

xsplat
5 years ago

Xsplat made a good point about congruency. But his game and mine are veryvdifferent. I’ve never paid for a girl apart from the usual drinks or whatever. Hehe. I mention that I sometimes pay for a girls apartment etc, but not all the time, and then then suddenly that becomes what my game is about. Sigh. I’m going to have to learn how to communicate in this language that you people seem to be using. For some reason I can’t understand, no matter what I think I’m saying, something else is heard. Either that or people are very deliberately –… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ walawala YaReally was right on the money as usual. He was also on the other day when he pointed out that I don’t know what I want, and that’s the problem. I had a brief moment of clarity when I got high with her a few days ago. She got upset about something, and then did the abrupt cold shoulder thing, moves away from me and goes silent and pissed off. I was too fucked up to agonize over the details. It just hit me that this shit has happened so many times and the reason for it is… Read more »

xsplat
5 years ago

@Softek, ya, I also hate when girls talk about relationship stuff. Of course you realize it means that she’s into you, so that’s the positive side. I’ve discovered that there is a very simple cure to the annoyance of relationship talk. Just tell her not to do that. It might sound absurd at first. But it’s just a simple sentence you can say, each and every time she tries to talk about relationship. “Don’t talk about relationship.” or “Don’t talk about relationship, have one.” You may choose to, only the first time, soften it with “I don’t like to talk… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@walawala “The reality is she likely wanted a way to rationalise getting away from me and painting me as the bad guy is typical of Cluster B behaviour…two weeks ago she’s gushing about me…two days ago she’s all vague about meeting up..:then she’s blaming me.” lol that’s not even Cluster B behavior. That’s just standard War Brides mechanism to prevent herself from becoming an alpha widow. Stick with me here, this rabbit-hole goes deep: See, she KNOWS you’re a high-value guy, as both a Lover AND a Provider/Boyfriend (because you gave her samples of the boyfriend life when you let… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

YaReally and HABD – just a quick note to say I have read and made notes on your final FR comments to me on the last Fempowerment thread – been meaning to follow up in detail but things are just crazy on the work front.. (I did find the time to watch the Madison infield video YaReally posted a couple of pages ago though – I watched the key bits 2-3 times and I still couldn’t see exactly why he chose any particular moment to move away or why chose a particular moment to put her arms around him..he actually… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

PS – That reminds me – I read that entire Tagthesponsor thread on the Roosh forum when YaReally first posted it on CH a year or so ago (fantastic entertainment value btw). Somewhere in the middle of that thread, there’s a poster called AnonymousBosch who posted a really interesting comment about women’s desire to submit as an explanation for why so many women become “sponsorettes” or whatever. I never felt like I fully understood or internalized it, but I did save his post (from the link YaReally posted above): —AnonymousBosch on Sponsorettes—– “Kamikaze: this knowledge doesn’t mean hopelessness, because it… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Softek – It just hit me that this shit has happened so many times and the reason for it is simply because I don’t know what I want.

The Platinum Rule [Do whatever YOU want to do, whenever YOU want to do it] forces answers to a lot of questions… if you pursue it.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

See, she KNOWS you’re a high-value guy, as both a Lover AND a Provider/Boyfriend

She knows it… but I wonder if Walawala knows it?

Wala if you accept this, and truly now know YOU are the prize, it will unlock a whole other dimension of your game. Less “gamey” – a more authentic, stronger frame, a relaxed playfulness and even genuine moments of magnanimity.

Almost fatherly, perhaps downright patriarchal…?

walawala
walawala
5 years ago

@Sentient That’s the key….inner game is much more critical to success than external game. I’m watching that hilarious comedy The Grinder…great stuff. But viewed through a Red Pill perspective, the Rob Lowe character plays an alpha actor who starred in a hugely successful legal drama called The Grinder. The show ends and returns to his Idaho hometown where his brother and father are REAL lawyers with their own law practice. The Grinder is so supremely self-confident about his legal abilities based on his experience playing a lawyer that he tries pulling it off in court with hilarious results. But the… Read more »

xsplat
5 years ago

I have to thank the many people here who have difficulty changing your opinion. I have to thank the group dynamics of in group out group politics. I had to work WAY TOO FUCKING HARD to get through the thick heads here. Really, really, incredibly stupid people. On fucking purpose. It made me state my point as clearly as I could. And for the first time, when I went out and daygamed today, I actually KNEW that I was in a position of strength. I’ve had years and years and decades of excellent reference experiences. I could go on and… Read more »

mersonia
5 years ago

@Xsplat

You just get off on the way you type.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Lol. Still going strong…..

I have a new debate: How long should a dead horse be beaten?

xsplat
5 years ago

Your free will sucks. “The reason that I don’t go after teen and twenty something girls is because I don’t want to.” “The reason that I don’t start my own business and pursue outstanding wealth is because I don’t want to.” “The reason why I choose to go along with the crowd is because that’s what I like to do” “Who are you to tell me how to live?! My couch and my porn and my video games and my cheetos and my nine to five may satisfy me more than the things you talk about. I DON’T WANT THEM.… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ stuffinbox Look into Glycine supplementation. Joel Brind has some interesting takes on it. The recommended amount is around 8-10 grams a day, which if you’re using a bulk glycine supplement powder like I do, is around 2 teaspoons a day. It’s been overlooked because it’s a non-essential amino acid, but as far as inflammation goes, it shows a lot of promise. Regulating inflammation is its main function. It’s also not that expensive. You can find 1kg bulk bags on eBay or Amazon. I also recently went for an orthopedic massage that helped a lot. As far as back issues… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ xsplat I don’t fully understand the debate here. Is the main criticism you’re facing that you’re in SEA and having success with women there, where the intergender dynamics are very different than they are in the west? @ Rollo Does this warrant a new RM post? I could’ve missed it but I don’t remember seeing a post here specifically about SEA and guys like Vic Pride. A friend of a friend just moved to Thailand, and I think more and more guys are doing it. Maybe not a tremendous amount, but enough to make it possibly a phenomenon? Is… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Softek

If you posted less and went out more to places where you can interact with live women, a lot of your issues would take care of themselves…

Take your medicine.

xsplat
5 years ago

“My interpretation is that people are thinking his stuff is illegitimate because he’s working with a dynamic of women that are very different, because of his massively elevated status, ” Yes, that’s it. I’m playing the video game on easy mode, because I’m in SEA. And even if I were 199 years old, it would still be easy mode. Even if I were noticeably bald and ugly, and not the only Westerner in this country, and even if the high status locals were FAR greater competition than any Westerner could ever be, I’d still be playing the game on easy… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Wala

Love the grinder as well… So clever.

Believing you’re high value is good… It’s a step. But believing is still an act. The act of believing.

Knowing on the otherhand is a whole different matter. You want to arrive at a knowing acceptence. Where “what is” simply is…

xsplat
5 years ago

Oh, and Blaximus. I’ve heard you’re “go fuck yourself Xsplat” loud and clearly several times now.

Right back at ya.

Are we done yet?

The same goes for all you other assholes. Message received. We both want each other fuck off and die.

I think we can stop repeating ourselves now. I doubt anyone else wants to keep hearing it.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

lol…WOW!…just followed Rollo’s tweet… down the rabbit hole…lol…

https://twitter.com/Lyde15/status/728575029013839872

looks like the FI is feeling a disturbance in teh force…lol…

with TRM at the top!…lol…as both pua AND mgtow…lol…(props Rollo!…lol)

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and it looks like Dalrock made the pua list (in the venn diagram of ‘hate’)…lol

and it looks like Robin has a ‘man-bun’ as Batman smacks some sense into him…lol

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when the f*k did THAT happen?…damn, i’m so old…lol…

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

looks like i got one stuck in mod…forgot about the link limit…lol…

SJB
SJB
5 years ago

@ Blaximus: I have a new debate: How long should a dead horse be beaten?

A cantankerous time period until the neigh-sayers are silenced.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ Softek Sure you provide a good example how not to do things, how not to settle into that mindset and MPO and how to be controlled by a woman. But you are settling for getting off on suffering instead of improving your game. While suffering is often a normal byproduct of self-improvement, introspection, and even just mastering a new skill – suffering for suffering’s sake is a waste of time and pain. Like Sentient said, you know what to do but you actually have to go out and do it. Can you not reverse engineer how your divorced buddy… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

X for the record, I never told you to go fuck yourself. You are too sensitive and defensive. Work on that shit. If you read you will see that I expressed my opinion and ended with support for you doing what makes you happy. I don’t have a stake in your happiness.. We won’t change each other’s mind, and there’s nothing wrong with that at all. So rub some pain relieving cream on your ass and get over yourself. I support you doing life in any way that makes you happy. The comments I’ve read here do the same. You… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

I’m sitting here waiting while my truck is being serviced. And Reading Francos manual of seduction.

This comment struck me in regards the the back and forth with @YaReally regarding putting your dukes up and thought I’d share it.

“The Alpha attitude is not connected with violence. Even in the case of war, if possible, the most self-confident males use violence only as a last resort.

An Alpha male is self-confident. A violent male is unsure of himself. Using violence too easily and especially with women, you only show your impotence. “

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“I feel like I won a manosphere Emmy today:”

Fuuuuuuuuuuck… Well… No such thing as bad publicity I guess. I’m going to look for a video.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@ YaReally This is why when a girl reaches the Ultimatum point (“I love you too much, if we can’t be together I don’t think I can do this”) she’ll start picking fights about ridiculous shit or poking sore spots or breaking rules she knows you have, to try to get you to lash out so she can justify “oh he was a jerk, abusive, etc” It doesn’t have to get to the U-point for girls to do this. It’s std. girl rolodex. If there’s an ultimatum given, it should be by the man. He should be the one who… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Whoa, so is this the next iteration of the SLPC’s smearing of all red-pill men, or something different?

Anyway.

Y’know, that’s not really how Venn diagrams work. But I would not expect feminists to know that. The shades of lavender are postively neo-Victorian.

I hope that’s my Batman Slaps Robin meme up there, but probably it isn’t.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“How long should a dead horse be beaten?”

Until its morale improves.

xsplat
5 years ago

Her: I can’t stay with you if you keep seeing other women. Him: I understand how you feel, maybe we need a break…. I like that, but prefer to leave it even more up to her. “If you are unhappy with me, then just stop seeing me” Girls try to change the guy, and nobody is into that. It gets more than old, it gets irritating. Nobody wants to keep having the same conversation about how the girl doesn’t want to share your cock. “If you are are not happy with me, then don’t see me. That’s it. That’s your… Read more »

vocxi
vocxi
5 years ago

Congrats @Rollo for making the top of the hate list.

And thanks to the feminists, I guess, now I have a bunch of new blogs to check out!

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Pretty handy, isn’t it vocxi? Nice of them to put all that information in one image for the rest of us.

Anon
Anon
5 years ago

>4/chan/b

They are unable of doing it right, aren’t they

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“I’m going to look for a video.”

I spent part of the morning drawing a blank on that, right after I looked for TRM on the chart – before looking for Vox, even though he was the one who pointed it out to me.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

SJF I disagree with the notion that violence shows impotence. That is an insane way to look at it. I know my mind occupies a mostly bygone era regarding putting up one’s dukes, but when I see or hear another man describing violence as unacceptable it tells me that this is man that shapes his opinion in an alternant reality. Looking to police and other men for protection always, is a failed strategy. A man must know how to defend himself and his loved ones. Sure, some guys cower and slink through life avoiding confrontation in fear that they will… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

GAAAH I totally cockblocked myself guys. Not had time to write a proper FR, but here’s the situ. Could use advice about how to proceed, but I’m thinking the short story is I had a lay in the bag and now I just need to start from zero again w/ this girl. Damn, gotta run again, work is trying to kill me. Alright, in just a few sentences: The girl related to social circles I’ve been spinning as a prospect – invited me to a party, it got cancelled, so we moved it to my house instead w/ anyone who… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Looking to police and other men for protection always, is . . .”

. . .relying on violence.

“Without action, words are just words. Without violence, laws are just words. Violence isn’t the only answer, but it is the final answer.”
— Violence is Golden; Jack Donovan

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Kfg

Precisely. Violence is silly and bad until it’s needed.

Police aren’t known for tickling people into compliance.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago
IAS
IAS
5 years ago

Rational Male got the top left corner (i.e. where people start reading usually). Congratulations, Rollo!

Ludiam0ndz
Ludiam0ndz
5 years ago

@rollo @all

Damn…made the sjw shit list “ruh roh shaggy”

Might have to mask my name on comments lol.. In other news Ex wife fuckin with my kids iPad and saw my RM booked marked. Now she’s like “why you read that stuff lol” ignored her ass.

Hmm def try to figure out what’s going on.. Specially the audience.. Maybe ya was right about being super careful to avoid being doxxed.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Blaximus I’m not trying to pick sides in that discussion, just wanted to point out some of those phrases that Franco wrote in his book “Manual of Seduction” about seduction. With the overall goal being to seduce women. What you said “Violence is silly and bad until it’s needed” is exactly the context and premise in which it was meant. And, it was meant in the context of being alpha in order to score pussy. “I disagree with the notion that violence shows impotence. That is an insane way to look at it.” Franco was saying it in the context… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

SJF

Understood.

Lol at pic. I concur.😂

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Forge fuck, I’m almost weeping looking at this convo You are not alone… i wept for you a leetle bit as well… yeah she threw herself out there with everything her hamster would allow past right on the plausibly deniable line… And you blanked her NO! Girl style…. LOFL… But hey no biggie, forget everything she said… never happened. Just hit her up when you are out, see if she will bounce and join you. If she can’t just be cool. OK, not playa butthurt.. just be genuinly cool, like “Sure some other time” LIKE NOTHING EVER HAPPENED… And then….… Read more »

Ludiam0ndz
Ludiam0ndz
5 years ago

@forge

Re your short fr, doesn’t seem like you fucked up to me.. She wants a massage lol give her one

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

or maaaybe if we’re talking I can just be like ‘so I realized you wanted me to work on you shoulder earlier, thought you were just talking about the future lol sorry I totally could have helped ya out there’ then change topics. So she knows it’s ok to ask again.

Forge – No non no… You want to be the guy that just gets IT. IT in this case has zero to do with an actual massage. Forget this thinking…

trackback

[…] Culum Struan requoted a really great thought from an old commenter, AnonymousBosch, on Heartiste’s blog from about a year ago and I thought it might make for some good weekend discussions: […]

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Forge and Sentient “She says that’d be cool, acts a bit flirty, then I don’t hear from her for a half hour, then she texts me saying she’s all ready for bed and describes how she’s putting lotion everywhere and crap, complains about how loud her roomate snores…and I just banter about that shit, then she says goodnight. And I feel like ‘zomfg this is so boss she’s throwing herself out there….’ Until this morning when I think back with half a fucking brain and realize I just basically told her that if she asks to come over I’ll just… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

It’s what he didn’t say – “yeah come on over, I could go for some wine” (i.e. NOW!)…

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

I go through this all the time in business Forge… You talk about the deal, it makes sense for everyone but ther eis no hand shake moment.

If you ASSUME the sale and move forward on that basis you get the deal done. If you are hesitant, you end up re-opening negotiations!

Act like it is a done deal here Forge. You made out, she likes you, you just need to be cool and isolate her like it’s no big deal.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Thanks.

I missed that in translation when he said: “and realize I just basically told her that if she asks to come over I’ll just kinda ignore the question….”

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@SJF Sorry, that was a high-energy comment. It was a long-ish convo so I’m glossing over a lot. Basically she asked if she could come over and I misinterpreted it to mean ‘sometime’ rather than ‘now.’ So I just flirted and bantered and teased her a bit until she got the picture and got ready for bed. The end of the convo was her replying to my last text; she just told me all about how she’d just showered and put oil everywhere, and complained about how loud her roommate was. I teased her about having roommates (I have my… Read more »

YaReally
5 years ago

@xsplat You’re just mad because you’re used to being able to tell your girls “I’m the boss” and they nod their heads and tell you “you’re so wonderful, can I have some rent money Daddy?” and then you come here trying to do the same thing except we’ve all met guys like you and we all know guys like you and we don’t care because we haven’t bought into your hype the way you and your girls have and you’re going “Why aren’t these guys listening to me?! They should be praising me and asking for my wisdom!!” You’ve spent… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Sentient Thanks. Good analogy, I’ve run into that before also. Takes a few ‘why didn’t this just happen?’ moments before you learn to MAKE it happen. I’m def. trying to ‘get the moment back’ here, like ‘nooo give me another chance universe, I understand now!’ But you’re right, best to move on like it didn’t happen. She’ll invent another excuse if she wants one. Past that just make it easy for her to see me w a casual invite, she bites or she doesn’t but at least it puts the possibility in her head. My question about that would be… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

“Tellin ya, hit him up and have a discussion about some TRP shit if you want to spread the word and your brand…”

+1 Those guys get tons of views. If it caught on maybe Milo would hit you up. You never know.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” If you are hesitant, you end up re-opening negotiations!”

The Japanese are masters of doing this on purpose. If you’re not careful you might find that you never had a deal – after you have made delivery.

” . . . she just told me all about how she’d just showered and put oil everywhere, and complained about how loud her roommate was.”

You next time: “Bring the movies.”

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@YaReally

Thanks, that’s a good idea. I’ll try pinging for a meetup tonight like Sentient said, then hit that in a few days if it doesn’t go.

It’s good plausible deniability for her. It just needs to sound plausible not needy I guess.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@kfg

Lol

This whole thing is interesting. Like I get these texts and just subconsciously make the evaluation of ‘oh, it’s almost ELEVEN O’CLOCK, she couldn’t POSSIBLY want to come here and bang me now, it would get KINDA LATE.’

Like some part of me still doesn’t quite believe that a girl might actually really want to have sex w me.

As YaReally says, the field reveals all!

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . she couldn’t POSSIBLY want to come here and bang me now . . .”

In my best Don Adams Voice: “Ahhhhhhhh, the old Assume the Rejection trick, and she fell for it.”

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Forge

LOL at the Ocean’s 11 brainsmoke overthinking scenarios. She wants to come over and since when are chicks Logical?

You just need to lead. Lead.

“Hey hop in my car a sec i want to show you something at my place. We can swing back and get your car later. Lets go.”

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“My question about that would be logistics I guess. Don’t see a good way to get her from drink place to isolation” I actually was thinking in Maxwell Smart Voice: “The old leave Forge’s car near a McDonalds and he drive her car to his place Trick” If things don’t work out she drives herself back to her home (wait, did I just say “if things don’t work out? sorry about that). When things do work out you drive her car in the morning to that McDonalds to pick up that Egg McMuffin that you promised yourself you would get… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Sentient, SJF Right as usual. I could really use a few more plates here lol. Anyways, now I have this: Her: do you want your water jug? Lol. [I forgot it with her, it’s not at all important] Me: damn! Yes. Me: any chance you could develop crippling neck pain that requires my immediate attention this evening and just happen to bring it with you? Her: We’ll see what magic I can work lol. Not sure how much it registered as just a joke. We will see. Maybe shouldn’t have brought it up again but eh. If she pings me… Read more »

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

@Forge dude – you got all the advice you need from Sentient and YaReally but I winced all the way over here reading that one.

Like you say – you need that a few times before you actually start taking action – we’ve all done that freezing in the face of unexpected attraction/IOIs.. (see my street FR from a week or so ago)

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Culum

Well I’m trolling like crazy for redemption for that gaffe as we speak. Basically she wants to come over but keeps throwing up obstacles like needing a shower, having to be up early, etc.

Strong LMR here, and it’s hard to do as much to diffuse over txt. I’m giving myself 30% odds of success. At least I’m being assertive/confident this time 🙂

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Failure.

Her (paraphrased): You almost had me. If I wasn’t traveling tomorrow I’d come over. But I just had a busy week blah blah….

Damn. Ah well, gonna eat food and hit the town. I just replied with an ‘alright, another time’ followed by well-wishes on her trip so it doesn’t come across as butt hurt (I tend to be verbose in texting so brusque texts risk that).

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Forge When you get back… you would do well to copy paste the exact exchanges here… This here Me: any chance you could develop crippling neck pain that requires my immediate attention this evening and just happen to bring it with you? To me is very poor game. Actually it is anti game. She threw out beta bait and you hit it hard. and not with the “Damn! Yes”, with his ad lib explication. Totally unnecessary… Part of the issue is you have to be comfortable with their being uncomfortable… I said do not mention the massage talk… and you… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

You cannot negotiate desire… Ever. Just realize when you start to enter negotiation mode that YOU are missing something.. take a step back and think about what you are missing. It’s got nothing to do with the actual situation being discussed.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Sentient Ya I thought it’d be a good joke/teasing thing. In retrospect it seemed needy and also basically makes it so that she has a hard time using that pretext in the future. Some of this is miswired internals, some is just bad calibration/technique. I’m starting to get a sort of twinge in my gut more and more often that tells me when something ‘isn’t right’ about some approach, and in retrospect those feelings tend to be spot on – but a lot still slips through. It’s helpful seeing them pointed out like that. Helps refine my filters. Just got… Read more »

cheupez
5 years ago

Congrats on the accolades @Rollo! You sneaky MGTOW you….

I would really like to get the full ppt. on that mediated feminisms digital misogynist hermeneutics. Anyone with the link?

hoellenhund2
5 years ago

This is the 3rd time I was quoted by Rollo. Good times. I must disagree. This is a weird tit-for-tat argument. YourBrainonPorn is not a feminist plot. How many women have you seen posting on that site, or on NoFap? This is a project by men. Yes – a project with the tacit approval of the Feminine Imperative. It wouldn’t last long without it. You need to keep in mind that feminism doesn’t have a coherent approach to any issue. 3rd wave feminists approve of the porn industry, as long as it serves the FI. It did so back when… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Forge In looking back at the situation… no need to go into more detail. It all seems clear… Forge – “Sooo I’m thinking I shouldn’t re-open the topic ” Sentient “But hey no biggie, forget everything she said… never happened. ” Sentient – “IT in this case has zero to do with an actual massage. Forget this thinking…” YaReally “fucking lol Overgaming. I wouldn’t acknowledge it, ” Forge “I’m def. trying to ‘get the moment back’ here, like ‘nooo give me another chance universe, I understand now!’ But you’re right, best to move on like it didn’t happen. She’ll invent… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Forge you get one too… lol… you know, for as much as both YaReally and i recommend cold approach to get better at game, i can’t EVER remember either of us recommending doing that INSTEAD of closing a ‘hot approach’ hotty…lol…so, props on taking that initiative…lol…but i really think cold approach should be in ADDITION…lol… i know ‘hot approach’ girls are toooo easy (lol), but really…i think you might be missing some important point here…lol… follow YaReally’s advice and just treat it like you didn’t want to ‘entertain’ in a messy apartment, then just ignore that ‘it’ happened…buuut to actually… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Sentient Alright. I think the issue is simple scarcity, at least mostly. I was feeling the pinch of the dry spell and wanted to just get her over already, which creates neediness/chasing. In that state I just sort of convince myself beta moves are good moves. I could actually see it going sarging last night – my state was kinda shit, all anxious and so on, and the night was basically an exercise in working myself out of that. I think I did a pretty efficient job and got my brain a bit more in a state of abundance and… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@HABD “you know, for as much as both YaReally and i recommend cold approach to get better at game, i can’t EVER remember either of us recommending doing that INSTEAD of closing a ‘hot approach’ hotty…lol…so, props on taking that initiative…lol…but i really think cold approach should be in ADDITION…lol… i know ‘hot approach’ girls are toooo easy (lol), but really…i think you might be missing some important point here…lol… Right, as soon as I saw there might be a chance at isolation w/ an already interested girl that became my ‘plan A.’ Sarging was plan B. “She’ll invent another… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Forge

Thanks for any input.

no time for more…

https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/06/the-medium-is-the-message/

‘food’ = provisioning = beta…

Me: Lol c’mon.

= ‘oh, pretty pleeeeease….i reeeeally am chasing you…”…lol…

Today she just texted me a pic from her trip – a store she thought would interest me w a description. Haven’t responded yet.

don’t… not kidding…

i think you could still turn it around, but you’ll need some actionable intel first and i don’t have time now…so, maybe YaReally or Sentient or somebody can weigh in…but either way it won;t hurt you to wait…

good luck!

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

This isn’t just fucking around for her.

To expand on this for clarity – girls fuck around for fun and pleasure. Sometimes it’s just frivolous, esp. during the party years. BUT the arousal response she has in her hindbrain is something that her hindbrain takes very seriously. It knows it can’t afford to make a bad choice. This is what leads to beta shaming and shit testing – she needs badly to know that a guy has ‘good genes’ before getting turned on/starting to make sexual choices.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Tx HABD. I’d love more input but for now ‘do nothing’ is actionable 🙂

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

hollenhund2 You need to keep in mind that feminism doesn’t have a coherent approach to any issue. 3rd wave feminists approve of the porn industry, as long as it serves the FI. And the 2nd wave feminists hated porn. Andrea Dworkin got her first media splash by equating porn to rape and attempting to criminalize it as such; Women Against Pornograpy or some such organization had a brief success in some state like Minnesota back in the 80’s. The ostensible justification for hating on porn was “objectification”. I suspect the real reason was the same thing Churchian women have; competition.… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Forge I’m trying to figure out if I was diffusing objections correctly (showing intent, leading, passing shit tests like ‘it’s too late’) or if it’s a bit too much and I was chasing. Her: Could you save some? Maybe tasting it will help me. Me: Good timing! I was just mixing it up. Her: I feel like it’s something obvious lol [talking about the ‘secret ingredient’] Me: Kinda but not very. Come and see. We’ll sit on my deck and dissect the finer things in life. I just got home so I’m making food. Her: Gaaahhh you’re making it very… Read more »

Klem
Klem
5 years ago

@Forge Way too much pull without any push dude! Also, I get it that you like/are good at cooking, but NEVER show that overtly to girls you try to bang, it’s a major beta tell, even more if you invite them. A better frame is “I’m good at cooking but I don’t know yet if you deserve it.” Also, watch the number of times you are reinitiating the convo… By text, I view it like this : you have a limited number of times you can invite her to do something, every time you do and she declines, you lose… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Thanks Sentient, Klem. This is all very helpful. I see in this case the best way to ‘push’ is to just ignore shit. Generate interest, dictate a course of action, then just ignore anything that doesn’t move towards compliance. This is all kinda interesting. I think my texting game is actually pretty far behind my in-person game, bc I just haven’t had much opportunity to practice it. And I’m also using it as a buffer, so I can have fun flirty texts and tell myself I’m doing well w/o it going anywhere. In a similar way I can hook sets… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

forge Sounds like you have it worked out. Good luck. “I’m also using it as a buffer, so I can have fun flirty texts and tell myself I’m doing well w/o it going anywhere.” dancing monkey is not just in person. “And again today, going on about how she needs to bring her car in and cant’ drive anywhere bla bla but hopefully can drive again by Thurs. Me: ‘cool’” Great progress for you. See the chum… know there is a hook in their… avoid the chum. Just think like she is probably doing this same kind of orbiter routine… Read more »

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Forge you got some good advice from Sentient and Klem… She initiated convo yesterday – I think just to probe out if I was mad or something – and I basically just used it to screen for logistics, they didn’t work so I just went about my day. And again today, going on about how she needs to bring her car in and cant’ drive anywhere bla bla but hopefully can drive again by Thurs. Me: ‘cool’ and this is much better…but what part of ‘don’t…’ didn’t you understand?…lol… so, you waited what? 2 whole DAYS before you HAD to… Read more »

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