Ghosts in the Machine

ghosts_inthe_machine

Hollenhund had an interesting response to a question posed in last week’s post that I thought I might come back to here:

1) Why is there “yourbrainonporn” for men, and not “yourbrainonyourdildocollection” for women? “yourbrainoneroticnovels” “yourbrainon50shadesofgray” “yourbrainonTwilight” “yourbrainonhavingtoomanyorbiters” “yourbrainongettingtoomanymessagesinyourinboxonokcupid”? MEN are the ones that it’s a “problem” if they want variety. MEN are the ones that have to change. MEN are the ones that have to fight their biology. hmmm…I wonder why THAT is. Maybe to help create more Softeks, where the girl can cheat on her boyfriend with him and then shame him for looking at another girl

I doubt their goal is that specific. This new narrative about porn addiction being a public health problem is obviously seen by its supporters as yet further ground for political consensus between feminists and social conservatives. It’s not that feminists want to turn the porn industry, or what remains of it, into a political target again, it’s that they need a narrative that is aligned with the Feminine Imperative and moves public discourse about the mating market away from subjects they, and women in general, are very uncomfortable with.

As long as the mainstream media pushes this narrative about young men getting addicted to online porn and thus opting out of the mating market, it will largely stifle any public discourse about the popularity of female emotional porn (romantic literature), and also the real potential causes of widespread porn use, like the drop in average female quality on the mating market and unrestrained hypergamy. Social conservatives, feminists, and the majority of common folk will, of course, be happy to put all blame on men for any social problem, real or not. And it’s very obvious that porn addiction isn’t a problem they want to actually do anything about, it’s more like an excuse for women to whine and moan. Frankly I’m very skeptical about the whole issue of porn addiction, because if something just happens to perfectly fit into the Feminine Imperative, it’s probably no accident. And one wonders how much scientific evidence there actually is for it.

I’ve addressed the physiological and social associations of male masturbation in the past in The Pheromonal Beta, as well as Pathologizing the Male Sexual Response. The “lively” discussion about male masturbation in this week’s comments notwithstanding, the topic du jour in the Twittershpere also seemed to coincide with this topic.

Personally, I think the ‘moral’ dictates about jerking off follows evolutionarily pragmatic reasons for male shame in masturbation while female masturbation is an arousal cue and seen as a positive. Female masturbation is a cue for sexual availability while male masturbation is essentially a Beta Tell.

That’s the nuts and bolts of it from the bio-evolutionary perspective, but as with all other inherently male thumbscrews, the Feminine Imperative has long exploited the sociological implications of men’s need for sex. One thing that slips by relatively unnoticed with social conventions that serve the Feminine Imperative is that the same presumptions that would serve a masculine (in this case sexual) imperative are always shamed or stereotyped – that is until they come into a context that is  useful to the feminine.

Sex Sells What?

“Sex sells” is a cliché that can be used in the positive for women, but it is always a negative for men. For women, sold sex in advertising, romantic literature, the meteoric popularity of ‘divorce porn’ for married  women, or really any media that stimulates women’s sexual interests is always seen as positive, empowering and exceptional. Even if what their being sold is seedy or can have a potentially negative consequence, in a feminine-primary social order women ‘own’ sex from today’s social perspective. In other words, society at large is expected to defer to women on issues of sex and, by association, romance, love, etc.

Women can still be sold  something or induced to buy a product or to adopt a mindset, but that article or the message that’s meant to be internalized is associated with the ‘positive’ of a sexual inference with women.

For men, male sexuality is always a negative association unless that sexuality is expressed in a way that complements women’s sexual strategy. Something being sold via sex to men is either seen as preying upon an inherent weakness (or dependency) for sex or it’s paired with ridicule for men being typical ‘pigs’ and they’re unable to dissociate sex from the objectification of women. So ingrained is this shame-association that men have adapted sexual competition strategies around it in order to identify better with women in the hopes they will be perceived as “not like other, typical, sex hungry men” and that their intimate interests are motivated by something more ephemeral that sex.

The social utility of this shame-association, of course, parallels the utility of Male Catch 22 for the Feminine Imperative, but there’s a useful  duplicity for women in this inescapable shame of male sexuality. For instance, when women seek to convince both themselves and men that fat-acceptance and “changing the standards of beauty” should be men’s metric for wanting to fuck and pair with less desirable women, we see the usefulness of that duplicity. Men are useful in the perception that they’re sexually uncontrollable pigs for being so gullible as to allow “society” and advertising agency to define what they think is arousing.  However, the Feminine Imperative will readily use (or attempt to use) that same weakness  to exploit men into acting against their own, evolved, sexual best interests by selling them the ideal of accepting fat women as a new standard of beauty.

There are no feminine parallels for the pathologizing of the female sex response because those would simply be hindrances to women optimizing their Hypergamous imperatives. Why are there no “yourbrainonporn” sites for women? Why are there no XXXChurch equivalents for the ladies? Why are there no support groups for women ‘addicted’ to romance novels or divorce porn movies? Because that exclusively male pathologizing is only beneficial to the female sexual strategy.

This is the depth of control that the female-primary imperative seeks over men – that our most base biological, existential need should be distorted and psychologically molded by shame to the point of instilling lifelong neurosis and conditioning fear-based gender self-loathing to effect women’s sexual strategy above all other considerations.

I’ll quote the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies once more here: for one sex’s strategy to succeed the other’s must either be compromised or abandoned. Whether subtly instilled or publicly shame-conditioned, associating men’s sexuality with sickness or perversion, weakness, and disability, the underlying purpose is an effort in convincing men to abandon any claim to their own sexual imperative in favor of that of women’s.

Slut Shaming

If this seems like a sea change from the old order days when women were shamed for even the hint of promiscuity while men were lauded for their own sexual exploits, what you’re seeing is the societal shift to feminine social primacy. There was a time when sexual indiscretion was something that shamed women. Today, it’s almost laughable that there should be a need for a social convention like “slut shaming”. There is no such social referencing, but if men on whole can be put to shame for the belief that other men might still cling to older order reservations about women’s sexual exploits it serves to place women’s sexual strategy above that of men’s.

There is always the old standby – the horrible “double standard” about men banging a lot of women being heroes while women who bang a lot of men are sluts (“it sooooo unfair!”). This is a laughable, antique social convention in an era of slut walks and female-centric birth control, but it’s still the reflexive go-to trope when the mechanics of pathologizing men’s sexuality comes to light.

Sex-positive feminism has always been a two-edged sword for women. That positivity ‘fempowers’ women so long as they cling to the old order missives about the Patriarchy repressing that sexuality while it simultaneously disqualifies their complaints of it as Hypergamy becomes more and more openly embraced.

Ghosts in the Machine

Hollenhund continues for us:

YaReally and hoellenhund, you’re talking about all this VR porn stuff but isn’t this basically the same dynamic as prostitution? Same kind of alternative sexual relief (that is not your wife) and same reason why the FI shames prostitutes and men who use prostitutes etc..because they lower the “price” of sexual release..?

YeReally has already answered your question well, I’d say. He brought VR porn up, I didn’t, because I was observing the current situation, not something that only exists today as a potential future development.

I’d add that the dynamic is somewhat different. Apparently the state is willing to penalize prostitution, at least to a degree that makes it sufficiently risky and expensive for many men to avoid it, and the majority of women and their male bootlickers are willing to support political efforts to suppress it. Neither of that applies to pornography of any sort. Women will complain about it, they will support a narrative that portrays it specifically as a problem caused by men, but it’s not like anyone actually wants to make an effort to do something about it. Do you think any woman wants to date, or have sex with, a reformed porn addict? Do you think women want porn addicts to get out of the basement, get their shit together, and hit on women in order to get real-life sex?

For the record, I’m not going to deny that excessive masturbation is unhealthy, or that excessive porn use can elicit unrealistic expectations of sex in a mind of an inexperienced man. Anything should be done in moderation, that goes without saying. But the current public discourse on porn and its effects is complete BS.

I’ve forgotten where I saw the quote posted, so I’ll paraphrase it a bit (I think it may have been Illimitable Man), but there’s a new concept I read about how human beings’ experience of consciousness is now assuming a new, third, aspect – the immediate, the internal and now, the virtual.

The immediate experience is one in which you directly relate with people in real time. It’s you physically and vocally interacting with others. The internal is the conversations you have with yourself and both your conscious and subconscious interpretation of what you’re experiencing, learning, behaving, etc. (i.e. what you’re thinking).

However, the virtual (or digital) aspect of consciousness is something humans have only recently developed and are now on the cutting edge of really understanding. The virtual experience is what I’m doing now as I type this post. I’m relating to you what’s going on in my thought process (to the degree of which I’m aware of it) in a virtual medium. Virtual porn, virtual games, virtual shopping, etc., really anything you do in a digital realm is part of this new form of ‘being’.

Humans in 2016 experience things in ways that our forebearers could scarcely dream of. Our immediate and internal experiences are now being informed by out virtual experiences – in accelerated ways that I don’t think most people really appreciate. The Feminine Imperative is now fighting to establish a foothold in this virtual experience. Thus, we see efforts like GamerGate meant to lock down a control over how men will be allowed to experience this virtual reality. We also see the preliminary efforts to both socially and legislatively institute feminine-primary controls over yet to be developed possibilities of virtual experiences.

Jerking off to ubiquitous, free, online porn is one such experience that the Feminine Imperative has had to play catch-up to with regard to restricting men’s access to it. And thus, we get contingent social controls from the imperative to counter this lack. It’s not enough that men be shamed for their sexual response to online porn. The accessibility makes this impractical, but there’s really no ‘sales’ transaction for which men would feel their sexual “weakness” being exploited.

However, the counter to this then becomes making men’s sexuality itself a disease. “Porn Addiction”, sex addiction, in a religious context even ‘impure thoughts’ become a disease not to be cured, but to be managed by women – women’s definitions, women’s approvals and disapprovals, women’s sexual strategy interests.

And porn is just the tip of the iceberg with regard to the Feminine Imperative’s controls of men’s virtual experiences with women.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

520 comments on “Ghosts in the Machine

  1. FWIW, I’ve banned ‘Karen’ permanently. I let it back on to test an experiment and I am even more convinced this thing is a chatbot after reviewing all the post it’s made that went to mod. It uses Reddit codes where it should be html, changes its name to random numbers, it never uses the actual names it responds to on threads, immediately begins posting once I allow it off the blacklist and it requotes replies to other comments with a thesaurus algorithm.

    It’s a bot. I’m looking up the IP and comparing it to known Reddit chatbots.

  2. I’ve also perma-banned Wild Man for many of the same reasons. All he does is spam to the point of c&p’ing his posts from over a year and a half ago. He can go start his own blog or join the Good Men Project I don’t care.

  3. … okay, if I did, I will just repeat myself and chalk it up to Alzheimer’s.

    Anyway, there was a huge commotion close to the entrance. People started screaming and clapping and jumping around. On further observance I could see that Mike Tyson was entering the club, with about 10-15 guys pushing the crowd back and clearing a path.

    A woman in the crowd kinda jumped forward towards Tyson. I was standing maybe…10 feet or so back at the time. I’m not sure if it was on purpose or not, but the chick wound up kinda throwing herself on Tyson.

    He grabbed her by the waist, initially it looked like to break her pending fall,
    but in doing so he palmed her ass really deeply. he might’ve lost a ring or two in her ass.

    A guy she was with stepped forward to pull her back…LMFAO… and maybe Tyson thought dude wanted to start something. He glared at the guy, and it was almost as if you could see the guy actually get smaller from the fear. Tyson said something like ” What!!??? You gonna do something???”.

    Afterwards every guy there was laughing and patting the guy on the back, feeling his pain.

    Discussions ensued about ” exactly what are you supposed to do if Tyson grabs your chick’s ass??”. Strangers stood around pondering that question for a good 15 minutes. Lol.

    My wife just looked at me smiling. My answer was ..

    1) I’d pull my wife back, just like the guy did.

    2) I would not respond to Tyson’s goading.

    3) If he took a swing at me, I would do my level best to unload on him ( lol, I was 26 at that time, in great shape, and I matched him in weight )

    4) When I came to in the hospital, I’d contact a lawyer immediately.

    5) I’d get myself a really nice electric wheelchair so I could still get around.

    I remember what happened to Mitch Greene a few years later in a street fight with Tyson….

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zKLnWrrQSSA/maxresdefault.jpg

    Don’t want no parts of that if avoidable. this idiot actually started the fight. Tyson ended it.

  4. It’s just their rolodex. They don’t really know how to get what they want because they don’t really run into guys who don’t GIVE them what they want, so they don’t know what to do to get it and flip through a bunch of the rolodex throwing tantrums and drama and shit trying anything. And often that works and that’s how they lock down a Softek. 😉

    This right here would cause any number of people I know to have a major meltdown. Because it’s truth is plain to see, but it’s totallly incongruent with the “women are wonderful” mindset.

    Thx again for bringing teh LOLZ!

  5. @ AR

    2 1911’s. Had them since I was 18. I had a S&W, but I sold it.

    I also had a berretta 9mm, nickel plated, but I think it was manufactured by Smuckers, because it always jammed. Problematic always.

    I love the .45’s. Colts are wonderful firearms. S&W are great too, so are Glock’s, but I have a thing for the Colts.

  6. Was traveling for work this week, good productive trip meeting up with some pretty smart folks. Just now getting back to TRM and saw this comment by Blax. That dude is just riffing way with great shit! Killing me!

    “That drive will also make them chase. That drive will also make them submit.
    That drive will make them prepare tasty post sex sandwiches.”

    LMFAO about the sandwiches. Love it when my GF springs out of bed and says she is going to make some grub for us after sweaty coitus.

    Last week she took a bunch of mangy stuff I had in my fridge and put together a pretty tasty meal. I was setting up the Last Samurai on the tube for us to enjoy. Walked back to the kitchen to grab something to drink and said, “hey, you left your plate of food here on the counter, aren’t you going to eat?” Here reply was: “I made that plate for you. I always make sure my man is fed and taken care of.”

    Now that doesn’t happen all the time exactly like that but have to say I was well fed, well fucked and feeling good all night.

  7. Yareally preaching…

    ” They don’t really know how to get what they want because they don’t really run into guys who don’t GIVE them what they want, so they don’t know what to do to get it and flip through a bunch of the rolodex throwing tantrums and drama and shit trying anything. And often that works… ”

    Listen up… save you a lot of headaches… and it’s all girls and it never ends… looped over and over…

    https://avemariaradio.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ChristChurchRiverdaleFBInt.jpg

  8. @YaReally thanks. Xsplat made a good point about congruency. But his game and mine are veryvdifferent. I’ve never paid for a girl apart from the usual drinks or whatever. But they always reciprocate in some tangible way…gifts , cooking , cleaning up, etc.

    On the issue of drama and dealing with it. I think this girl has those BPD traits I was good at avoiding.

    The ultimatum sparked an agree and amplify response because it tapped into my own competitive instinct not to be tooled.

    The reality is she likely wanted a way to rationalise getting away from me and painting me as the bad guy is typical of Cluster B behaviour…two weeks ago she’s gushing about me…two days ago she’s all vague about meeting up..:then she’s blaming me.

    I had no intention of showing up after I suggested meeting up and got a less than enthusiastic response… When girls screw up they don’t want to take responsibility so they blame the guy…softek.

    Identifying this and managing it takes skill. I think I handled it well. The a and a response was better than logically explaining she didn’t confirm so was t sure blah blah blah…

    I’m much better at this but always something to learn. Thx

  9. Xsplat made a good point about congruency. But his game and mine are veryvdifferent. I’ve never paid for a girl apart from the usual drinks or whatever.

    Hehe. I mention that I sometimes pay for a girls apartment etc, but not all the time, and then then suddenly that becomes what my game is about.

    Sigh.

    I’m going to have to learn how to communicate in this language that you people seem to be using. For some reason I can’t understand, no matter what I think I’m saying, something else is heard.

    Either that or people are very deliberately – perhaps even consciously – filtering out anything and everything that isn’t congruent with a black and white view. Paying or not paying. Support 1 in 4 of my current girls becomes being a sex tourist.

    That type of thing is apt to turn a guy into a misanthrope. Is this really what communicating with other guys is about?

  10. @ walawala

    YaReally was right on the money as usual. He was also on the other day when he pointed out that I don’t know what I want, and that’s the problem.

    I had a brief moment of clarity when I got high with her a few days ago. She got upset about something, and then did the abrupt cold shoulder thing, moves away from me and goes silent and pissed off. I was too fucked up to agonize over the details. It just hit me that this shit has happened so many times and the reason for it is simply because I don’t know what I want.

    It has nothing to do with her, really. If it was some other girl I’d be feeling the same way. The panic was hitting me HARD. I was high as fuck and already fighting off anxiety from that. But the panic really started when we had an argument and then the fear of loss hit hard.

    I feel like I’m in deep shit at this point. Could be a lot deeper though so I kind of take that back, lol. She’s gotten very friendly with my parents, they both love her, which in a way is stressing me out more. I’ve basically been doing the BF thing, hardcore, for a while now, all without committing to her and not knowing what I want.

    Her being my first real long-term experience, first girl I’ve ever had sex with, and all that. We were out the other day and I was forcing myself to not look at other girls walking by, and I felt really depressed about that. Like incredibly.

    I’m young and I want to enjoy being young while I can. I’d at least like to have a few other experiences with different women. But all the scarcity mentality and self-defeatism came back in full swing.

    Relapsed with porn. Haven’t felt like having sex with her, because of her habit of bringing up relationship stuff, and why I won’t commit, etc., immediately after sex. This was a slow build but I think the taper off in my sexual desire for her has mostly to do with that.

    I just feel exhausted now when she mentions all that stuff. I’ve heard it so much basically every day for months now it’s just like I glaze over.

    Fear of catastrophic loss is still there, though. Haven’t changed my internals, i.e. feeling like I have other options.

    In my mind right now she is my only option, and the only option I’ll ever have, the best I can do.

    Is that true? No. But it’s true to me, where I am now.

    This is what I’m trying to address. But you have to start from the ground up. If that’s really what I believe, I’m falling into exactly the Blue Pill trap I’ve read so much about for so long.

    Let’s even say that our relationship so far has been perfect.

    It hasn’t, but let’s say that for the sake of being hypothetical.

    Would I even want to commit to her then? Would I be happy about completely giving up sex with other women for the foreseeable future? Possibly the rest of my life? Just hang it up there with the first girl I’ve had sex with and forget about ever being with any other women ever?

    This is what I mean about it having to do more with me. I think the BPD thing is a misnomer. The only power BPD’s have too is your own co-dependence. Guys that don’t give a fuck can’t be manipulated. If you give a fuck, though, you can get played like a fiddle.

    So it isn’t even about BPD or not, IMO. It’s about what you want, and what you’re willing to put up with for the sake of what you want.

    Note:

    How can you even identify what’s good or bad in a girl if you don’t know yourself?

    Example: one “plus” for me is that she puts up with me. I can be very difficult to be around because little shit pisses me off and I can lose it at the drop of a hat. That side of me only comes out when I get close to people.

    So that “plus” is based on the idea of her overlooking or accepting a perceived flaw I have of myself.

    Is this value on her part? Or just misunderstanding on my part?

    tl;dr = “I don’t believe I deserve anything. So anything this girl gives me is great. It’s like charity. So she’s basically a patron saint. She’s literally an angel. Because I have no value and yet she still wants me to be in her life and gives me all this attention and all this other stuff.”

    I don’t have the experience to know otherwise. Even with this girl wanting me to be her BF, I still get upset and jealous when I hear about other women being in love with other guys, because it triggers some kind of inferiority complex that I have.

    Like instead of figuring myself out and dealing with my situation, I can waste time, even if it’s 5 seconds, getting pissed seeing some girl doting on her boyfriend because I feel like I can never have that.

    EVEN THOUGH THIS GIRL HAS BEEN DOTING ON ME.

    Yeah, there’s been a lot of BS. But I’ve been in a typical situation (or typical, so I’m told) where, after having sex regularly for a while, a girl falls in love with you.

    And starts doing shit for you. Doing shit to try to lock you down which can easily be interpreted as “love.” Even saying “I love you.” And all this makes you feel really special and unique and like you’re the only guy in the world she could ever be with because you’re not used to feeling these things.

    Not used to someone treating you like that. So especially if you don’t think you deserve it, you’re going to feel REALLY LUCKY that anyone would treat you like this, and you’d BETTER LOCK IT DOWN because it’s like winning Powerball. Your chances of hitting that jackpot again are nonexistent. Scarcity mentality to the max.

    Anyway, just been doing some introspecting. If it wasn’t this girl, it’d be another. I haven’t worked on myself to the point where I’m really stable yet.

    Hell, before all this started with her, I was freaking the fuck out over an LJBF ONE-itis I had. I never even kissed the girl in my life or even came CLOSE to it, but I was sickly, madly in Beta/Omega ONE-itis with her.

    I thought I was in love with her. A situation that had no chance. And nothing ever happened. And yet I thought I was in love with her, that she was the only girl I could ever be with, and that if things didn’t work out with her, then that would be it for me.

    So I’m a big step up from that now, but not that big. Scarcity mentality is still there. Now I’m with a girl I’ve actually had sex with, is actually attracted to me, wants to be with me, etc.

    But I still don’t know what I want and my attachments are still being driven by fear instead of conscious choice.

    Also, not writing this out to complain, like “I don’t deserve anything, wahhhhhh” —

    It’s just the reality of where I am right now. My goal is to understand that that is not a healthy frame of mind. That’s not a healthy place to work from. I need to change it.

    And boy does that feel difficult. Magic question: How do you know? That’s what I’m going to start working on tonight.

    How do you know you don’t deserve anything?

    There are memories that ‘prove’ to you that this belief is true. Whether it’s childhood experiences or something that happened 10 minutes ago. The goal is to start identifying what memories support this BS and start addressing them one by one, letting them go, and re-writing the programming.

    Doing that is how I got laid in the first place. And I’ll probably have to do that again until it’s really cleared out. I had to work on a lot of anxieties I had about sex and confidence and all that before I actually felt capable of pursuing it. I was just shooting myself in the foot being pissed off all the time. I didn’t know how to relax and I didn’t want to game women because I hated them. So once I cleared that BS out it felt more natural and I was able to tap into the relaxation/fun/laid back/confident vibe that leads to getting laid, or getting whatever it is that you want.

    I’m exhausted. Interesting reading through the comments. I forget who it was that called me the Resident Beta here in the group, lol. At the time it pissed me off but whenever I see my name pop up here it kind of makes me laugh. I’m like the poster-child for self-hating Betas trying to unplug but constantly flip flopping back and forth.

    I always did have a penchant for learning things the hard way. One plus is that when you do learn things the hard way, or the God-mode/Insane difficulty hard way, as long as you come out alive and intact, it gives you a lot more perspective than you would’ve gotten if you succeeded without much effort.

    Part of why I’m so good at the work I do is because I’ve sucked so much at it and failed so many times. I might not always know what to do at first in every situation, but a lot of times I know what NOT to do, and that’s just as important a part of it.

  11. @Softek, ya, I also hate when girls talk about relationship stuff.

    Of course you realize it means that she’s into you, so that’s the positive side.

    I’ve discovered that there is a very simple cure to the annoyance of relationship talk.

    Just tell her not to do that.

    It might sound absurd at first. But it’s just a simple sentence you can say, each and every time she tries to talk about relationship.

    “Don’t talk about relationship.” or “Don’t talk about relationship, have one.”

    You may choose to, only the first time, soften it with “I don’t like to talk about relationships”. But you have to understand you are not negotiation with her about what the two of you will talk about. You are just telling her that you are not going to talk about relationships. At all. And that she must stop. It’s a command. Don’t get sucked into explaining or negotiating. Pinch her lips if she won’t shut up. I’ve physically carried girls out of the door who would not shut up.

    I bet that sounds really weird.

    But that’s the kind of thing you can get used to. Women respond way better to commands than I used ever imagine was possible. I’m sure it must be the same for a lot of guys. We just aren’t used to that idea.

    But commands work very well, and I’d argue that any healthy relationship between a man and a woman the man should be giving commands. And have strong boundaries.

    Just tell her.

  12. @walawala
    “The reality is she likely wanted a way to rationalise getting away from me and painting me as the bad guy is typical of Cluster B behaviour…two weeks ago she’s gushing about me…two days ago she’s all vague about meeting up..:then she’s blaming me.”

    lol that’s not even Cluster B behavior. That’s just standard War Brides mechanism to prevent herself from becoming an alpha widow.

    Stick with me here, this rabbit-hole goes deep:

    See, she KNOWS you’re a high-value guy, as both a Lover AND a Provider/Boyfriend (because you gave her samples of the boyfriend life when you let her cook, clean, etc basically roleplaying being a couple). But she also knows she can’t HAVE you. So what’s she supposed to do? Every other man will pale in comparison to you because she can’t get you and get bored of you through too much familiarity, and any other guy who LETS her get him must be lower value than you because the highest value guy to her is the one who doesn’t want/need her.

    So how is she ever supposed to be happy out there? She can’t be, because Hypergamy demands she get the top dog, not the second place one. So she’ll date other guys and not be ABLE to see them as her highest-value option because you’ll always be haunting her.

    But she can’t just dump you…you’re high-value to her, she would have to be retarded to dump a guy who’s high-value like that. What if she regrets it the rest of her life? She’ll always doubt and regret her decision. Her entire biology is wired to FIND a high-value guy like you and lock him down…for her to just TOSS HIM AWAY would be as insane as you tossing away your dream HB 10/10 girl with a perfect personality etc

    But she can’t have you…so what’s her only real option? Cast you as the bad guy. Either provoke you into doing something she can use to rationalize you as being lower-value than she thought, or literally lie to herself and brainwash herself and warp the truth enough to convince herself that you’re lower-value than she thought.

    If she can get you to react in some way that she can justify as negative/low-value, THEN she can break free and not be an alpha widow because you’re no longer the best she can do to her hindbrain and she has a chance at being happy with other guys.

    This is why when a girl reaches the Ultimatum point (“I love you too much, if we can’t be together I don’t think I can do this”) she’ll start picking fights about ridiculous shit or poking sore spots or breaking rules she knows you have, to try to get you to lash out so she can justify “oh he was a jerk, abusive, etc”

    If you stay totally unreactive to it, they’ll get frustrated because they NEED you to lower your value so they can avoid alpha widow status.

    They don’t consciously understand any of this, it’s just a common pattern. The way to avoid it is like I said, don’t give them hope that you’d be a good boyfriend in the first place. Once you hit this point it’s pretty much LTR up or lose her for a while.

    If you can stay unreactive and not lower your value, she’ll Long Soft Next For Temporary Exclusivity (LSNFTE, see Blackdragon’s stuff) and go off to try to find another guy but, because you didn’t lower your value, she’ll almost always come back and try to rope you into a boyfriend role again because Hypergamy dictates that she needs YOU not whatever other guy.

    But if you react and give her justification to ditch you, she’ll go off and be able to date another guy without looking back because you become the same as any other guy who has low-value to her.

    They’ll pretty much all do this if you hit this particular stage with them, this is what allows them the ability to do the War Brides thing Rollo talks about.

    My point in explaining this is that you have to understand that while to YOU this seems like crazy behavior, to HER it’s 100% logical and rational self-preservation/survival. Like, this is her hindbrain’s optimal strategy to escape the Check position you’ve put her in before it’s too late and she ends up in Checkmate, an alpha widow for life, never satisfied with the guy she’s with because she’ll always compare him to the vision of what having you for a boyfriend would have been like.

    You’re venturing into “fuck these stupid bitches” territory lately, but a big part of that is because you don’t understand what’s going on or why they’re doing what they’re doing. When you understand why you’re getting these reactions and why they’re doing it, it seems a lot less random and if you change your behavior you should see different results.

    @Softek
    Your thought-dumps are likely helping or going to help other guys going through similar situations because they feel, just like you did, that they’re the only ones in this situation. Everything you’re describing is very common for a guy who’s first starting out and gets his first girlfriend but realizes he isn’t done yet and can sense that she seems cool a lot of the time but there’s little red flags he instinctively knows he should be paying attention to. A Blue Pill guy will double-down on the Women Are Wonderful belief system and bury those red flags, but your eyes are open so you’re fucked. 🙂

    @xsplat @Softek
    “I’ve discovered that there is a very simple cure to the annoyance of relationship talk. Just tell her not to do that.”

    It helps if you’re dating extremely submissive young asian women who’s apartment and food you pay for and literally hold the key to her survival and a greencard over her. A girl like Softek’s, especially at the stage they’re at and the precedents and lack of boundaries he’s already set, won’t just go “yes, sir!” and bow her head down lol

  13. YaReally and HABD – just a quick note to say I have read and made notes on your final FR comments to me on the last Fempowerment thread – been meaning to follow up in detail but things are just crazy on the work front..

    (I did find the time to watch the Madison infield video YaReally posted a couple of pages ago though – I watched the key bits 2-3 times and I still couldn’t see exactly why he chose any particular moment to move away or why chose a particular moment to put her arms around him..he actually says so little, but watching that video is good practice for reading subcomms)

    (Also read Sentient’s coffee shop FR which was really good – that “freezing” is pretty much how I feel whenever I get ANY IOIs..)

  14. PS – That reminds me – I read that entire Tagthesponsor thread on the Roosh forum when YaReally first posted it on CH a year or so ago (fantastic entertainment value btw).

    Somewhere in the middle of that thread, there’s a poster called AnonymousBosch who posted a really interesting comment about women’s desire to submit as an explanation for why so many women become “sponsorettes” or whatever.

    I never felt like I fully understood or internalized it, but I did save his post (from the link YaReally posted above):

    —AnonymousBosch on Sponsorettes—–

    “Kamikaze: this knowledge doesn’t mean hopelessness, because it defines your masculine role.

    All I’m getting at is that every woman has an almost psychopathic longing to destroy any perception of being ‘the good girl’. It’s the most common complaint you’ll hear from women: “It’s so hard being good.” Women long to indulge their emotions enough to risk being swept away by them, and it’s this self-indulgence that makes them at risk of being self-destructive: they reach a point where they just want to tear everything down, including the Good Girl, and, most commonly, their Beauty. An example is hacking off their hair when they have a breakup.

    It’s in their songs, it’s in their literature, it’s in their movies. The social pressure to ‘behave’ drives them to distraction, even as they conform to it, meaning they’re internalising this constant battle to be both good and bad: wanting the social approval, rewards and status for being good but desperately-craving social stigmatisation to the degree of martyrdom for being bad.

    Feminism, at it’s core, is basically: “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!” This is why it’s beloved of ugly chicks who can’t sexually compete, and those with obvious Daddy Issues.

    I see my role, as a man, is to recognise their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

    If you’re stoic, she gets to indulge her emotions with a safety net that stops her from self-destructing, and she will adore you for it. This is the masculine – feminine relationship. She gets to be weak, knowing you’re her rock. She doesn’t want to lash out at stone that crumbles, whilst simultaneously wanting strong shelter to hide against.

    Sexual degradation is part of the risk, and you temper this by always being in control of the situation. Never let her think she’s leading: or her desperation to prove her devotion to you will take her into weird, disgusting places that destroy her.

    If you’ve got your player on, I guarantee you will hear some variation of this: “I’d never do this with any other guy, but you make me want to do this and I’m not sure why.”

    This is their sexuality out of control by their furious emotional desire to be owned by you – they are swept away – and this is where you need to reign them in with a strong hand and be ‘Daddy’. Otherwise she’ll get stupid notions in her head that by being sexually-outlandish, she’ll be the whore women believe all guys want their wives to be, not realising that we don’t want to think of the mother of our children blowing dogs and wearing our shit, (unless that’s really your thing).

    This is what destroys women and makes the light go out in their eyes: when they degrade themselves for a man they value highly-enough in the hopes of locking him down enough only to eventually disgust him. Sometimes, the degradation is a sex thing, where she blurts out that she’d blow a horse for you. Sometimes, it’s physical: she wants you to see her with running mascara and her hair hacked off so you can see how ‘wounded’ and ‘vulnerable’ you’ve made her. Sometimes it’s emotional: stories of ‘being raped’ or being abused by Exes, designed to fire you up with masculine protective instinct, but instead make you see her as damaged goods. She thinks she is showing you how much she longs for you with these socially-transgressive displays – because Social Status is female currency and power – so deliberately lowering herself in a man’s eyes is the ultimate submission for her – but all she is doing is pushing you away.

    During sex: always lead, always control, always structure what is happening. She wants to serve a strong man: show her how to so she doesn’t go off on self-destructive tangents. As McQueen used to say, don’t call her ‘a’ whore, call her ‘your’ whore. Your eyes are your strength here: if she’s sucking your dick, tell her to look at you, so she has nowhere to hide. Call her your ‘good girl’ as she does it.

    Basically, structure a performance of faux-degradation and sexual submissiveness she can enact it that makes her feel she’s served a strong man, that stops her crossing into actual degradation, where it starts emotionally-messing her up and leaving scars.

    That being said, Millennial Girls seem to possess a capacity for self-loathing and self-destruction I’ve never seen in previous generations.

    So, take what is happening in this thread: the transfer of money for sexual degradation. It’s the same core process: she’s telling herself it’s about the money, but it’s about submission before the masculine: the trappings of supreme social and financial power. It’s about thinking she’s high value enough to be submitting to Princes and Kings, so the leap to being crapped on or blowing a dog to prove she is ‘a worthy consort’ is a small one for them.

    Obviously, it makes no sense to us, but women seem to be clueless as to what behaviour actually makes them attractive, and not repulsive, to men.”

  15. Softek – It just hit me that this shit has happened so many times and the reason for it is simply because I don’t know what I want.

    The Platinum Rule [Do whatever YOU want to do, whenever YOU want to do it] forces answers to a lot of questions… if you pursue it.

  16. See, she KNOWS you’re a high-value guy, as both a Lover AND a Provider/Boyfriend

    She knows it… but I wonder if Walawala knows it?

    Wala if you accept this, and truly now know YOU are the prize, it will unlock a whole other dimension of your game. Less “gamey” – a more authentic, stronger frame, a relaxed playfulness and even genuine moments of magnanimity.

    Almost fatherly, perhaps downright patriarchal…?

  17. @Sentient That’s the key….inner game is much more critical to success than external game.

    I’m watching that hilarious comedy The Grinder…great stuff. But viewed through a Red Pill perspective, the Rob Lowe character plays an alpha actor who starred in a hugely successful legal drama called The Grinder. The show ends and returns to his Idaho hometown where his brother and father are REAL lawyers with their own law practice. The Grinder is so supremely self-confident about his legal abilities based on his experience playing a lawyer that he tries pulling it off in court with hilarious results.

    But the point I’m making is the Grinder character is supremely self-confident he is clueless to even the possibility that the premise is ridiculous. He demonstrates vulnerability with women, with his family…he’s easily hurt…Yet it’s that self-confidence that makes him so charismatic that no matter what he does he’ll pull it off.

    That is the essence of inner-game. She thinks I’m high value but do I believe it? Well…I hadn’t thought of it that way.

  18. I have to thank the many people here who have difficulty changing your opinion.

    I have to thank the group dynamics of in group out group politics.

    I had to work WAY TOO FUCKING HARD to get through the thick heads here.

    Really, really, incredibly stupid people.

    On fucking purpose.

    It made me state my point as clearly as I could.

    And for the first time, when I went out and daygamed today, I actually KNEW that I was in a position of strength.

    I’ve had years and years and decades of excellent reference experiences. I could go on and on, but it would only make you guys hate me and come up with new reasons why my reality isn’t real.

    For one of the first times in my life, my reference experiences matched up with my world view.

    I handed out cards today like a boss.

    Thanks, haters.

    You made me work really hard to realize that my reality is more real that I realized.

  19. Lol. Still going strong…..

    I have a new debate: How long should a dead horse be beaten?

  20. Your free will sucks.

    “The reason that I don’t go after teen and twenty something girls is because I don’t want to.”

    “The reason that I don’t start my own business and pursue outstanding wealth is because I don’t want to.”

    “The reason why I choose to go along with the crowd is because that’s what I like to do”

    “Who are you to tell me how to live?! My couch and my porn and my video games and my cheetos and my nine to five may satisfy me more than the things you talk about. I DON’T WANT THEM. So SHUT UP!”

  21. @ stuffinbox

    Look into Glycine supplementation. Joel Brind has some interesting takes on it. The recommended amount is around 8-10 grams a day, which if you’re using a bulk glycine supplement powder like I do, is around 2 teaspoons a day.

    It’s been overlooked because it’s a non-essential amino acid, but as far as inflammation goes, it shows a lot of promise. Regulating inflammation is its main function. It’s also not that expensive. You can find 1kg bulk bags on eBay or Amazon.

    I also recently went for an orthopedic massage that helped a lot. As far as back issues go, I have an extra vertebrate in my spine that has caused scoliosis from before I was born, and the pain/tension I have is related to that. I’m also doing everything I can to avoid surgery. The massage helped way more than I thought it would, and since I started supplementing with glycine daily, I’m also noticing much less pain. It isn’t going to realign my skeleton but there could be a lot of muscle dysfunction that’s causing problems.

    It’s going to sound crazy, but I also still recommend Faster EFT. Or any other method directly intended to address emotional issues. There are usually a lot of emotions associated with physical pain and you’d be surprised how much addressing these emotions can help. I’ve used Faster EFT on people many times and on more than one occasion have gotten rid of migraine headaches in people that were currently having a really bad one. Even I was surprised because I didn’t expect it to work, but I tried anyway and it ended up working. People always tell me, “How the hell did you do that?” But emotions are very powerful.

    Even going back in your mind to the first time you felt the pain. Do you remember how you felt about it? What’s the worst thing about having this pain? When you think about it right now, what comes to mind? Anger? Sadness? Regret? Grief? Etc. It is fucking crazy how deep this shit can go.

    I absolutely will stand by any nutritional or medical thing you could do to help (short of getting cut). Even if you do go under and have surgery, these things can and will all still help if there’s any residual pain or complications.

    Anyway, I’m not a doctor, but I’ve dealt with chronic pain most of my life and there are definitely options for you.

    Glycine: I’ll stress that again. Do some research on it and decide if you want to give it a try. I certainly would. That anti-inflammatories would help so much speaks volumes. Glycine functions mainly as a regulator of inflammation and, as far as I know, no toxic effects have been reported. Especially when you stay within reasonable limits. I took around 15g the other day with no ill effects. It also helps me sleep.

  22. @ xsplat

    I don’t fully understand the debate here. Is the main criticism you’re facing that you’re in SEA and having success with women there, where the intergender dynamics are very different than they are in the west?

    @ Rollo

    Does this warrant a new RM post? I could’ve missed it but I don’t remember seeing a post here specifically about SEA and guys like Vic Pride. A friend of a friend just moved to Thailand, and I think more and more guys are doing it. Maybe not a tremendous amount, but enough to make it possibly a phenomenon?

    Is this necessarily a bad thing? I think it’s really interesting to see how unrestrained Hypergamy affects women. And I’d like to see a post on that (if there isn’t already one). Dalrok, I think, mentioned something like that: That unrestrained Hypergamy actually changes women into something they wouldn’t normally be. Like people having unlimited access to junk food or something. The natural drives have always been there, but they were never meant to be abused like they are now.

    But yeah. What’s the debate here around Xsplat? I’m not grasping what the core of what’s going on here is. My interpretation is that people are thinking his stuff is illegitimate because he’s working with a dynamic of women that are very different, because of his massively elevated status, due to USD having very high value and putting western guys in a completely different class than the economically depressed SEA native guys. Or something like that?

    Moving on….

    Anyway, the aching for young pussy sucks, lol. Feeling really stuck atm and struggling a lot. I am amazed that I’ve been conditioned so much, not only in the past, but in the present, e.g., my parents LOVE this girl I’ve been seeing, and of course they want grandkids, so there’s that, and the social pressure from other friends I have telling me I’m so lucky to have her, etc., is fucking with me A LOT….it’s like everywhere I go I’m being pressured/goaded and it feels next to impossible to get away from it.

    The direct pressure I’m getting from this girl on and off is just one part of it. In some ways the pressure I’m feeling from my parents and friends is worse. If it’s just her, I can think, well, she’s just being a girl, that’s what girls do. But when my parents or friends say shit it takes it to a different level. And just adds to the ONE-itis.

    The simple thing here is overall it hasn’t been that bad, except for one thing: not having guilt-free access to other girls. We have a great time together. Whenever she ISN’T bringing up relationship stuff, we have a great time. I like her a lot.

    It doesn’t change the fact that when I see a hot 18 y/o walking by I’m basically crying inside. Like, oh, fuck, what I would do for a piece of that.

    Except actually go out and do anything to pursue and get a piece of that, lol.

    Friends saying shit like “Are you really going to find anyone else?” They knew me from back in the day so there’s a lot of reinforcement here that I CAN’T get other women, and that she really is going to be my best option, because I don’t have the skills or personality to get anyone else.

    So having this constantly coming in isn’t helping.

    But really, being in my mid 20’s and never having been with a hot girl under 29 y/o is wearing me out. I hear all these things like younger girls smell really good and are all exciting and everything’s really tight, etc.

    A lot of girls by the time they’re that age have seen every shape and size of dick and exhausted themselves in their party years. Every girl? No. But every girl that had the ABILITY to, sure. And the ones that didn’t probably feel the same way I do right now: it’s only natural to want to explore your options and get it while the getting’s good.

    Of course, there’s more guilt and shame tied to that, looking around at ppl who get married to the only person they’ve ever dated, and all this social conditioning that tells us we only need one partner, or that even saying things like “young pussy” makes you basically a registered sex offender and misogynist, etc.

    It’s OK for women to crave the hot, rich, jacked, mysterious fantasy 50 Shades of Grey guys, but for men to crave the hot, young women they pass by every day? Shaming, guilt tripping, etc., how dare he, what a pervert, etc., men are all pigs, etc.

    It’s weird even writing it out because I’m so self-conscious about this. Like it’s a mortal sin for me to want to experience younger women, when I already have a girl that wants to commit to me.

    Friends/family etc. are going to be of no help here. I’m feeling the Matrix pretty hard because I have been feeling completely alone, and also kind of like a scumbag. This is what it feels like to be in a woman’s frame, lol. Not good.

    And not even just women’s frame, but everyone else’s. Even my friend fell into his ex-wife’s frame, which ended up resulting in divorce. Funny how he was pretty much the king of pimps back in his heyday, but he toned it WAY DOWN when his wife said she didn’t like him going out to bars, or talking to other women.

    So he conceded, stopped doing it, remained faithful, never thought of cheating even though he cheated constantly on GFs he had when he was younger without so much as thinking about it or evaluating his behaviors…..

    …and lo and behold, when he gave up frame and gave in to all his wife’s demands, and was HAPPY TO DO IT, for the kids, because he liked being married to her and having a family, etc….

    ….there comes the divorce.

    So this is NORMAL. I will admit it’s pretty scary knowing that basically the whole world around me is going to put pressure on me to not stand out and just fall in place.

    And the part of me that’s happy in my current relationship would be happy to do that. But I catch myself feeling depressed that I won’t even look at other girls now, make eye contact and get that ‘spark,’ which used to make me feel so good back when I was incel, and then having hope for getting my shit together and just playing the field for 6 or 7 years (much like women having their time to shine in their party years), and THEN thinking about settling down.

    I’m starting to understand what it feels like to be whipped. And it feels just like it sounds: it sucks.

    Okay, I won’t look at other women, and I’ll force myself not to. So now when we’re out I feel pressured and miserable and even though I want to have a good time, it feels very hard to because I feel like I’m a slave.

    And I just glaze over when she brings up commitment because all I hear is “I want your soul behind bars.”

    Funny because when she’s not bringing that shit up, and then I feel OK, and start looking at other girls again when we’re out, checking them out, trying to do it when she’s not looking lol, and she isn’t complaining or giving me shit, I feel more attracted to her and want to fuck her more.

    Then she’ll inevitably go back to that route and it will kill whatever boner I have and I just won’t feel like having sex with her. It’s been fluctuating like this for a long time. Back and forth. Still get a lot of great sex in, but also have been getting in a lot of dry spells because her giving me shit is such a turnoff I can’t deal with it.

    Funny how that works. This is basically a college education, lol.

    But for all the talk about women’s rights and all that? One girl I knew from high school always bitches about that online. And laughs at MRA’s and makes jokes about how men can’t have any problems, and all that.

    Meanwhile she was slutting it up making posts about how freeing it is to have ‘multiple lovers,’ how guys on the street were staring at her ass and cat calling her, and how this offends her, typical shit like that.

    Thank god for her sharing that stuff, actually, because it pisses me off and wakes me up to the real dynamics going on here. Guys like me are going YEARS without any sex or touch at all, while women are getting stuffed with dicks of all shapes and sizes without a second thought, and then complaining that they have no power in this society and that men are abusive rapists, etc., constantly sexually harass women, how we have to ‘fix’ the power imbalance between men and women (in favor of women, of course, because obviously they don’t have enough power or influence or control yet, especially over their sexual selection…..lol) and all this other BS.

    But then I have to be careful because this makes the girl I’m seeing look like a unicorn because she generally hates liberals and SJW’s and talks shit about them all the time.

    So basically my head is getting fucked from every possible angle. But I’ll get through it eventually. It’s an education in the process, anyway.

  23. Softek

    If you posted less and went out more to places where you can interact with live women, a lot of your issues would take care of themselves…

    Take your medicine.

  24. “My interpretation is that people are thinking his stuff is illegitimate because he’s working with a dynamic of women that are very different, because of his massively elevated status, ”

    Yes, that’s it. I’m playing the video game on easy mode, because I’m in SEA. And even if I were 199 years old, it would still be easy mode. Even if I were noticeably bald and ugly, and not the only Westerner in this country, and even if the high status locals were FAR greater competition than any Westerner could ever be, I’d still be playing the game on easy mode.

    And since I SOMETIMES live with girls and take care of them in a very miserly way, compared to married men who live with and take care of their wives, all the orgasms I ever induce are fake.

    Oh, and since I try to use my own personal experience as teaching lessons, because that’s what I’m most familiar with, I’m an AMOGing braggart. Each and every instance of true stories about my own only further proves how much I need to prove myself to other men.

    Every correction of slander is proof that I protest too much.

    The deliberate childish thinking surprises me. If it were not for a top 5 or 10% of men, I’d really think that talking to men was total waste, and that isolation and loneliness were the only option in life.

  25. Wala

    Love the grinder as well… So clever.

    Believing you’re high value is good… It’s a step. But believing is still an act. The act of believing.

    Knowing on the otherhand is a whole different matter. You want to arrive at a knowing acceptence. Where “what is” simply is…

  26. Oh, and Blaximus. I’ve heard you’re “go fuck yourself Xsplat” loud and clearly several times now.

    Right back at ya.

    Are we done yet?

    The same goes for all you other assholes. Message received. We both want each other fuck off and die.

    I think we can stop repeating ourselves now. I doubt anyone else wants to keep hearing it.

  27. lol…WOW!…just followed Rollo’s tweet… down the rabbit hole…lol…

    https://twitter.com/Lyde15/status/728575029013839872

    looks like the FI is feeling a disturbance in teh force…lol…

    with TRM at the top!…lol…as both pua AND mgtow…lol…(props Rollo!…lol)

    https://i.sli.mg/bFyh83.jpg

    and it looks like Dalrock made the pua list (in the venn diagram of ‘hate’)…lol

    and it looks like Robin has a ‘man-bun’ as Batman smacks some sense into him…lol

    https://i.sli.mg/JkJ52n.jpg

    when the f*k did THAT happen?…damn, i’m so old…lol…

  28. @ Blaximus: I have a new debate: How long should a dead horse be beaten?

    A cantankerous time period until the neigh-sayers are silenced.

  29. @ Softek

    Sure you provide a good example how not to do things, how not to settle into that mindset and MPO and how to be controlled by a woman. But you are settling for getting off on suffering instead of improving your game.

    While suffering is often a normal byproduct of self-improvement, introspection, and even just mastering a new skill – suffering for suffering’s sake is a waste of time and pain. Like Sentient said, you know what to do but you actually have to go out and do it.

    Can you not reverse engineer how your divorced buddy was controlled by his wife? Can you not see clearly how your control by your girlfriend will lead to your ruin? And then not do that–not be controlled?

    Can you not see how when George Costanza decided to do the opposite of what his beta self would instictively do, he was being impudent?

    Instead of going the way of Beta (being controlled by a woman), be impudent and have leadership.

    In the words to Franco (part author of “Practical Female Psychology”)

    “In words, actions and omissions I speak, move and behave in such a way that I never ask for forgiveness about my personality and my sexual desire as a male. I am an impudent individual.” ….

    “In every woman there is at an instinctual level, a deep and in-coercible desire to give herself sexually to the male who shows the alpha attitude.”

    And as you and your divorced friend (who was betatized) demonstrate on an instinctual level every woman desires to control a male who shows beta attitude. Her security demands it.

    In any group or relationship there is always a leader. If it is not you it is her.

    She instructs you not to look at other girls and you comply with her instructions? YGBSM.

    Sure you lack the skills right now. But don’t settle for mediocrity. Learn and master through doing things your gut instincts tell you are the right thing to do. Don’t be a slave. Look at other girls in the presence of you girlfriend, smile and be impudent.

  30. X for the record, I never told you to go fuck yourself. You are too sensitive and defensive. Work on that shit.

    If you read you will see that I expressed my opinion and ended with support for you doing what makes you happy.

    I don’t have a stake in your happiness.. We won’t change each other’s mind, and there’s nothing wrong with that at all.

    So rub some pain relieving cream on your ass and get over yourself.

    I support you doing life in any way that makes you happy. The comments I’ve read here do the same.

    You just came at us brandishing a steak knife with a wild look in your eyes yelling ” you’re trapped in cages and can’t fuck young ass!!!!«.

    What did you expect the response to be?

  31. I’m sitting here waiting while my truck is being serviced. And Reading Francos manual of seduction.

    This comment struck me in regards the the back and forth with @YaReally regarding putting your dukes up and thought I’d share it.

    “The Alpha attitude is not connected with violence. Even in the case of war, if possible, the most self-confident males use violence only as a last resort.

    An Alpha male is self-confident. A violent male is unsure of himself. Using violence too easily and especially with women, you only show your impotence. “

  32. “I feel like I won a manosphere Emmy today:”

    Fuuuuuuuuuuck… Well… No such thing as bad publicity I guess. I’m going to look for a video.

  33. @ YaReally

    This is why when a girl reaches the Ultimatum point (“I love you too much, if we can’t be together I don’t think I can do this”) she’ll start picking fights about ridiculous shit or poking sore spots or breaking rules she knows you have, to try to get you to lash out so she can justify “oh he was a jerk, abusive, etc”

    It doesn’t have to get to the U-point for girls to do this. It’s std. girl rolodex.

    If there’s an ultimatum given, it should be by the man. He should be the one who is least willing to stay.

    Her: I can’t stay with you if you keep seeing other women.

    Him: I understand how you feel, maybe we need a break….

    When you go silent, she’ll start worrying that some other bimbo may lock you down and she’ll come running back after about three weeks. Ask me how I know.

  34. Whoa, so is this the next iteration of the SLPC’s smearing of all red-pill men, or something different?

    Anyway.

    Y’know, that’s not really how Venn diagrams work. But I would not expect feminists to know that. The shades of lavender are postively neo-Victorian.

    I hope that’s my Batman Slaps Robin meme up there, but probably it isn’t.

  35. Her: I can’t stay with you if you keep seeing other women.

    Him: I understand how you feel, maybe we need a break….

    I like that, but prefer to leave it even more up to her.

    “If you are unhappy with me, then just stop seeing me”

    Girls try to change the guy, and nobody is into that. It gets more than old, it gets irritating. Nobody wants to keep having the same conversation about how the girl doesn’t want to share your cock.

    “If you are are not happy with me, then don’t see me. That’s it. That’s your only option. Stop trying to change me”.

    I don’t even like to use more than one sentence. That’s putting in too much effort and buying into her frame that a conversation is in order.

    And I prefer to leave it 100 percent her choice. If a girl tries to complain that I hurt her because of “cheating” , then “I’m always nice to you. I take care of you. I treat you good. I didn’t do anything bad to you.” Very rarely I might add “I did something to someone else”, but that’s putting too fine a point on it, and will remind her of the bad feelings. My point is that with her, she gets good treatment, and can’t deny it. Then if that’s not enough, she can leave.

    I don’t like to get sucked into her frame, and prefer to cut things short with very simple commands and ultimatums. Keep it simple.

    Take it, or leave it. Simple.

  36. Congrats @Rollo for making the top of the hate list.

    And thanks to the feminists, I guess, now I have a bunch of new blogs to check out!

  37. Pretty handy, isn’t it vocxi? Nice of them to put all that information in one image for the rest of us.

  38. “I’m going to look for a video.”

    I spent part of the morning drawing a blank on that, right after I looked for TRM on the chart – before looking for Vox, even though he was the one who pointed it out to me.

  39. SJF

    I disagree with the notion that violence shows impotence. That is an insane way to look at it.

    I know my mind occupies a mostly bygone era regarding putting up one’s dukes, but when I see or hear another man describing violence as unacceptable it tells me that this is man that shapes his opinion in an alternant reality.

    Looking to police and other men for protection always, is a failed strategy.

    A man must know how to defend himself and his loved ones.

    Sure, some guys cower and slink through life avoiding confrontation in fear that they will be killed or hurt… Lol…but IMO that is not a fully realized male.

    Hell baby kittens will defend themselves.

    The straw man ” oh you’re a badass ” response always misses the point.

    Of course men should not walk around looking for trouble with chip firmly ensconced on shoulder but a man should be able to take care of himself without looking to others for help or scurrying away.

    Pathetic.

    But Ya and I will never agree because we come from totally different perspectives. I have a lot of experience with men that wouldn’t take ” no ” or ” I apologize ” for an answer. Unless you’re okay with submission, they don’t leave you much choice.

    It’s not about tough or badass. It’s not about showing off.

    If a guy doesn’t understand he never will, maybe until it’s too late.

    But it’s a dead discussion mostly for me. Like Xsplat and his SEA thing. It goes nowhere. Lmao.

    Besides, thugs don’t really fight anymore. They use guns. True pussies.

    Hence my 45’s.

    😁

  40. GAAAH I totally cockblocked myself guys.

    Not had time to write a proper FR, but here’s the situ. Could use advice about how to proceed, but I’m thinking the short story is I had a lay in the bag and now I just need to start from zero again w/ this girl.

    Damn, gotta run again, work is trying to kill me. Alright, in just a few sentences:

    The girl related to social circles I’ve been spinning as a prospect – invited me to a party, it got cancelled, so we moved it to my house instead w/ anyone who still wanted to come. She came before to ‘see my house’ and helped cook, struck a good vibe, then people showed etc etc. After the party she stayed after everyone left to help me clean up. Proceed to makeout (she was uncertain/protesting but made out HARD as soon as I pulled the trigger), grinding, shit like that, but it was really late and she said she had to go. Did some stuff to avoid buyer’s remorse, etc, sent her on her way, got a good message from her after as insurance.

    Two days later – she texts me at like 10-11 at night. Sounds nervous. Sort of like ‘Sooo I have a question….’ and ‘I was just wondering…’ then finally spits it out in a hugeass text that has all sorts of qualifiers and ‘if that’s alright by you’s’ in it. The gist of it is she’s asking if I ‘have home hours’ for doing massages bc her shoulder hurts. She says she’ll ‘repay me with wine.’

    And (fuck, I’m almost weeping looking at this convo lol) I figure she’s asking for future reference or some fucking thing ’cause it’s kinda late, and go on joking about ya I’ll have to set this house up as a hippy healing center and shit, eventually tell her we can ‘figure out a time that works.’

    She says that’d be cool, acts a bit flirty, then I don’t hear from her for a half hour, then she texts me saying she’s all ready for bed and describes how she’s putting lotion everywhere and crap, complains about how loud her roomate snores…and I just banter about that shit, then she says goodnight. And I feel like ‘zomfg this is so boss she’s throwing herself out there….’

    Until this morning when I think back with

    half

    a

    fucking

    brain

    and realize I just basically told her that if she asks to come over I’ll just kinda ignore the question.

    Dear lord. Talk about furious. I’m still in one hella dry spell so this sorta thing stings. Lol, good learning experiences all around.

    Sooo I’m thinking I shouldn’t re-open the topic – or maaaybe if we’re talking I can just be like ‘so I realized you wanted me to work on you shoulder earlier, thought you were just talking about the future lol sorry I totally could have helped ya out there’ then change topics. So she knows it’s ok to ask again.

    But windows close, and I missed that one, so probably futile. Can probably get another meetup somehow eventually, but I’ll be starting from zero methinks. Making up for making it seem like I’m not that interested in banging her (=beta orbiter).

    Input….

    Was gonna write a FR about the party night, there’s some interesting stuff I observed about frame and setting expectations and escalation, but the TL:DR is THE PROPHECIES ARE ALL TRUE lol.

    Hopefully sarging tonight, I’m blueballed as fuck.

  41. “Looking to police and other men for protection always, is . . .”

    . . .relying on violence.

    “Without action, words are just words. Without violence, laws are just words. Violence isn’t the only answer, but it is the final answer.”
    — Violence is Golden; Jack Donovan

  42. Kfg

    Precisely. Violence is silly and bad until it’s needed.

    Police aren’t known for tickling people into compliance.

  43. Rational Male got the top left corner (i.e. where people start reading usually). Congratulations, Rollo!

  44. @rollo @all

    Damn…made the sjw shit list “ruh roh shaggy”

    Might have to mask my name on comments lol.. In other news Ex wife fuckin with my kids iPad and saw my RM booked marked. Now she’s like “why you read that stuff lol” ignored her ass.

    Hmm def try to figure out what’s going on.. Specially the audience.. Maybe ya was right about being super careful to avoid being doxxed.

  45. @Blaximus

    I’m not trying to pick sides in that discussion, just wanted to point out some of those phrases that Franco wrote in his book “Manual of Seduction” about seduction. With the overall goal being to seduce women.

    What you said “Violence is silly and bad until it’s needed” is exactly the context and premise in which it was meant. And, it was meant in the context of being alpha in order to score pussy.

    “I disagree with the notion that violence shows impotence. That is an insane way to look at it.”

    Franco was saying it in the context of scoring pussy, not in defense of honor among men or in defense of oneself. And that is also YaReally’s context. They are merely putting violence farther down their own lists of when-it-is-necessary. Franco was trying to say it only shows impotence relativeweakness of not having many other alternatives in their list above primary violence.

    More of Franco generalizations

    An Alpha male’s traits are:
    – Impudence: He has the guts to ask for privileges for his group and for himself. He fearlessly protects the rights of his group and himself.

    – He never asks for forgiveness for his sexual desire as a male. This is very important. Only by keeping this attitude with women will your success as a seducer go up and go up fast.

    – He never asks for forgiveness for his own existence: he walks through the world proud of himself.

    – He assumes in the social group and in relation to the woman the position of a leader. The leader of a group or in a situation is not the one who is violent to others or the one who behaves like a jerk. He is the one who has charisma. He is the leader of his group and the one who structures opportunities for himself and for others.

    – He never assumes the subservient mental frame when relating with other people or with a woman. The subservient mental frame is a very important subject and there will be a chapter dedicated to it in this book. Regarding non-verbal communication, the qualities of an Alpha male are not correlated in anyway with violence or the behavior of a jerk. The Alpha male is generally relaxed and in his non-verbal communication there are no signs of violence.

    The Alpha male uses violence only in extreme cases and only if there are no other alternatives. One of the most important qualities of the Alpha male is the ability all the time to find with his attitude solutions to problems which provide an alternative to violence.

    In the sad case that an Alpha male is in the need of using violence, he tries to eliminate his enemy by using his maximum strength without showing any joy for the results he gets. He will also try to avoid humiliating his enemy.

    For this reason the non-verbal attitude of the Alpha male is:
    – Relaxed.
    – Non-aggressive.
    – Self-confident.
    – Open.
    – Communicative. One of the principal traits in the Alpha male is his ability to open himself up and easily establish contact with other individuals – both men and women – He is good in structuring opportunities, both for himself and for others.

    Alpha males direct people in a creative way.

    https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/64868293.jpg

  46. Forge

    fuck, I’m almost weeping looking at this convo

    You are not alone… i wept for you a leetle bit as well…

    yeah she threw herself out there with everything her hamster would allow past right on the plausibly deniable line… And you blanked her NO! Girl style…. LOFL…

    But hey no biggie, forget everything she said… never happened. Just hit her up when you are out, see if she will bounce and join you. If she can’t just be cool. OK, not playa butthurt.. just be genuinly cool, like “Sure some other time” LIKE NOTHING EVER HAPPENED…

    And then…. she will likely hit you up later that night.. and this time YES tell her to COME OVER. NO reason is needed other than “hang out”…

    Hit her up tonight when you are out. “hey at XYZ, great drinks here”
    Her:blah blah
    You: Yeah pop on round…

  47. @forge

    Re your short fr, doesn’t seem like you fucked up to me.. She wants a massage lol give her one

  48. or maaaybe if we’re talking I can just be like ‘so I realized you wanted me to work on you shoulder earlier, thought you were just talking about the future lol sorry I totally could have helped ya out there’ then change topics. So she knows it’s ok to ask again.

    Forge – No non no… You want to be the guy that just gets IT. IT in this case has zero to do with an actual massage. Forget this thinking…

  49. @Forge and Sentient

    “She says that’d be cool, acts a bit flirty, then I don’t hear from her for a half hour, then she texts me saying she’s all ready for bed and describes how she’s putting lotion everywhere and crap, complains about how loud her roomate snores…and I just banter about that shit, then she says goodnight. And I feel like ‘zomfg this is so boss she’s throwing herself out there….’
    Until this morning when I think back with
    half
    a
    fucking
    brain
    and realize I just basically told her that if she asks to come over I’ll just kinda ignore the question.”

    Due to the sentence structure, I’m not following how the screwup occurred although I sense the nature of it . IOW I don’t understand what Forge actually said at the end of the text conversation. Can you elaborate?

  50. It’s what he didn’t say – “yeah come on over, I could go for some wine” (i.e. NOW!)…

  51. I go through this all the time in business Forge… You talk about the deal, it makes sense for everyone but ther eis no hand shake moment.

    If you ASSUME the sale and move forward on that basis you get the deal done. If you are hesitant, you end up re-opening negotiations!

    Act like it is a done deal here Forge. You made out, she likes you, you just need to be cool and isolate her like it’s no big deal.

  52. Thanks.

    I missed that in translation when he said: “and realize I just basically told her that if she asks to come over I’ll just kinda ignore the question….”

  53. @SJF

    Sorry, that was a high-energy comment.

    It was a long-ish convo so I’m glossing over a lot. Basically she asked if she could come over and I misinterpreted it to mean ‘sometime’ rather than ‘now.’ So I just flirted and bantered and teased her a bit until she got the picture and got ready for bed.

    The end of the convo was her replying to my last text; she just told me all about how she’d just showered and put oil everywhere, and complained about how loud her roommate was. I teased her about having roommates (I have my own place), she reacted a little and went to sleep.

  54. @xsplat
    You’re just mad because you’re used to being able to tell your girls “I’m the boss” and they nod their heads and tell you “you’re so wonderful, can I have some rent money Daddy?” and then you come here trying to do the same thing except we’ve all met guys like you and we all know guys like you and we don’t care because we haven’t bought into your hype the way you and your girls have and you’re going “Why aren’t these guys listening to me?! They should be praising me and asking for my wisdom!!”

    You’ve spent too long inside your own personalized echo chamber to understand why no one gives a shit about your lifestyle. You aren’t doing anything amazing and special, you’re just taking the easiest path to get laid. It’s a valid strategy, as we’ve all made sure to mention (because your ego is extremely overreactive as evidenced by the “everyone who disagrees or doesn’t praise me is attacking me!!!” crybaby shit, and the “see walawala look how pathetic you are NOW you need to come to ME for advice!!” attempt at square-pegging yourself an authority role), but you are shooting layups with a step-ladder and trying to convince us that that’s the way to win the game quit bothering with all those dunks you guys I have the secret to REAL basketball. We aren’t asking you for your wisdom because we already know what you’re doing. We GET it, man. The NBA probably isn’t going to ask you how to do your step-ladder shot either.

    Then on top of all that you’re trying to hype your own shit up like it’s something mystical and magical and unique that only you have discovered and can teach, which is just trying to strong-arm your way into some kind of guru role, which your submissive little asian chicks you’re paying for eat up like candy, but around here you will be called out on that shit.

    @Forge
    fucking lol Overgaming. I wouldn’t acknowledge it, I would just tell her “hey, my apartment is finally clean, massage parlor is open for business again”, as if the reason you turned her down was just that your place was messy and you don’t like having company (any company) when it’s messy.

    @Blaximus @SJF
    No one is saying we should go fight Hitler by throwing flowers at him or when someone corners you in an alley to rob you you should be like “hey kind sir, please don’t take my money, let’s be friends instead!” and hug him.

    But some overreactive insecure asshole in the bar getting upset over a spilled drink or a grabbed ass or “disrespectin’ me” is NOT a soldier going to fucking war. He’s a dipshit who could’ve avoided an escalated violent confrontation a dozen different ways before it got to where it got to but chose to do the monkey dance because he bought into the idea that an alpha man is ready to throw down brah!!!1 and gets into pointless needless fights with pointless needless risks that could’ve been avoided if he hadn’t stuck his head up his own ass.

    This is a good example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfMbN_MzCpw

    Should Louie have jumped up and kicked this kid’s ass with his old man power? And then kick all his friend’s asses when they jump in too? With his kids at home waiting for him to come home and take care of them as a single dad? Gotta protect his rep and impress the puss brah! Is he even going to get out of the booth fast enough to not get punched? Is this where you whip out your 45s and start shooting? Eating shit was the smart move in this situation even if it was embarrassing and cringey. Who cares what a bunch of kids and some vagina think? He’ll never see them again and he can replace her.

    But even smarter than supplicating to get out of it would have been not scolding them like an asshole in the beginning and ending UP in that situation, and instead approach the guys and vibe with them about whatever they’re celebrating, explain he needs their help to wingman him with this chick, and turn it into a fun/friendly situation. Or say to the girl “It’s loud in here and it’s a nice night, let’s go for a walk” and walk her to his apartment to bone.

    Violence has its place. But it’s not in some stupid bar interaction over some stupid girl or some “disrespect” from some idiot who has no value in your life in the first place. ESPECIALLY when you’re in your 30s+.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agvzE91Xfek

    @Rollo
    I think a lot of guys in the Manosphere bubble don’t realize how bad it’s getting out there. That’s why the GamerGate thing is a big deal, people brush it off as just some nerds fighting over videogames but they’re keeping tabs on shit like this as it spreads. And it’s spreading.

    Thing is if you actually read KIA, you’ll find that tons of their discussions are red pill in nature even though none of them want to be assosciated with TRP etc But they are “normies” regularly being exposed to insane feminist shit and unfair practices against men and all that shit and are calling it out as bullshit. GG is an important cultural movement, these are the upcoming generation of mainstream audience and they’re learning not to trust the press, not to trust propaganda, not to trust feminists/SJWs, etc while simultaneously the SJWs are ramping up their shit like that Venn Diagram of Evil presentation and how Anita’s crew is basically running Twitter these days trying to control and censor “wrongthink” communication etc

    Old people who just read newspapers won’t know about any of this, but they’ll be dead soon. These are the next wave coming up and exposing bullshit despite getting demonized by the mainstream media 24/7. Sargon just had Stardusk (popular MGTOW) on his Livestream with 23k views. Tellin ya, hit him up and have a discussion about some TRP shit if you want to spread the word and your brand…otherwise he’s gonna end up having Roosh on someday lol

  55. @Sentient

    Thanks. Good analogy, I’ve run into that before also. Takes a few ‘why didn’t this just happen?’ moments before you learn to MAKE it happen.

    I’m def. trying to ‘get the moment back’ here, like ‘nooo give me another chance universe, I understand now!’

    But you’re right, best to move on like it didn’t happen. She’ll invent another excuse if she wants one. Past that just make it easy for her to see me w a casual invite, she bites or she doesn’t but at least it puts the possibility in her head.

    My question about that would be logistics I guess. Don’t see a good way to get her from drink place to isolation (my place is a bit of a drive from good drink places, so it’s hard to be casual about the bounce and she’d prolly have to leave her car, which beggars plausible deniability of stuff like ‘oh come and see the pictures’ type stuff.

    So maybe this ain’t running tonight. We’ll see. Might as well try; I’m trying to avoid a sniper mentality here – just TRY instead of waiting for the planets to align.

    And if it doesn’t pan out this night, well, I’m already out in a good sarge spot….

  56. “Tellin ya, hit him up and have a discussion about some TRP shit if you want to spread the word and your brand…”

    +1 Those guys get tons of views. If it caught on maybe Milo would hit you up. You never know.

  57. ” If you are hesitant, you end up re-opening negotiations!”

    The Japanese are masters of doing this on purpose. If you’re not careful you might find that you never had a deal – after you have made delivery.

    ” . . . she just told me all about how she’d just showered and put oil everywhere, and complained about how loud her roommate was.”

    You next time: “Bring the movies.”

  58. @YaReally

    Thanks, that’s a good idea. I’ll try pinging for a meetup tonight like Sentient said, then hit that in a few days if it doesn’t go.

    It’s good plausible deniability for her. It just needs to sound plausible not needy I guess.

  59. @kfg

    Lol

    This whole thing is interesting. Like I get these texts and just subconsciously make the evaluation of ‘oh, it’s almost ELEVEN O’CLOCK, she couldn’t POSSIBLY want to come here and bang me now, it would get KINDA LATE.’

    Like some part of me still doesn’t quite believe that a girl might actually really want to have sex w me.

    As YaReally says, the field reveals all!

  60. ” . . . she couldn’t POSSIBLY want to come here and bang me now . . .”

    In my best Don Adams Voice: “Ahhhhhhhh, the old Assume the Rejection trick, and she fell for it.”

  61. Forge

    LOL at the Ocean’s 11 brainsmoke overthinking scenarios. She wants to come over and since when are chicks Logical?

    You just need to lead. Lead.

    “Hey hop in my car a sec i want to show you something at my place. We can swing back and get your car later. Lets go.”

  62. “My question about that would be logistics I guess. Don’t see a good way to get her from drink place to isolation”

    I actually was thinking in Maxwell Smart Voice: “The old leave Forge’s car near a McDonalds and he drive her car to his place Trick”

    If things don’t work out she drives herself back to her home (wait, did I just say “if things don’t work out? sorry about that). When things do work out you drive her car in the morning to that McDonalds to pick up that Egg McMuffin that you promised yourself you would get for her in the morning.

  63. Sentient, SJF

    Right as usual. I could really use a few more plates here lol.

    Anyways, now I have this:

    Her: do you want your water jug? Lol. [I forgot it with her, it’s not at all important]
    Me: damn! Yes.
    Me: any chance you could develop crippling neck pain that requires my immediate attention this evening and just happen to bring it with you?
    Her: We’ll see what magic I can work lol.

    Not sure how much it registered as just a joke. We will see. Maybe shouldn’t have brought it up again but eh. If she pings me again tonight I’ll just shoot for a meetup directly ‘hey I’m at X, join me’ style, bat away LMR-type uncertainties but just be chill with refusals. Open sets if I see them, eventually bounce to downtown for more options if need be.

  64. @Forge dude – you got all the advice you need from Sentient and YaReally but I winced all the way over here reading that one.

    Like you say – you need that a few times before you actually start taking action – we’ve all done that freezing in the face of unexpected attraction/IOIs.. (see my street FR from a week or so ago)

  65. Culum

    Well I’m trolling like crazy for redemption for that gaffe as we speak. Basically she wants to come over but keeps throwing up obstacles like needing a shower, having to be up early, etc.

    Strong LMR here, and it’s hard to do as much to diffuse over txt. I’m giving myself 30% odds of success. At least I’m being assertive/confident this time 🙂

  66. Failure.

    Her (paraphrased): You almost had me. If I wasn’t traveling tomorrow I’d come over. But I just had a busy week blah blah….

    Damn. Ah well, gonna eat food and hit the town. I just replied with an ‘alright, another time’ followed by well-wishes on her trip so it doesn’t come across as butt hurt (I tend to be verbose in texting so brusque texts risk that).

  67. Forge

    When you get back… you would do well to copy paste the exact exchanges here…

    This here Me: any chance you could develop crippling neck pain that requires my immediate attention this evening and just happen to bring it with you?

    To me is very poor game. Actually it is anti game. She threw out beta bait and you hit it hard. and not with the “Damn! Yes”, with his ad lib explication. Totally unnecessary…

    Part of the issue is you have to be comfortable with their being uncomfortable… I said do not mention the massage talk… and you do… and you get ASD triggered.. (ASD not LMR)…

    Looking back what would you have gone with instead?

    As a guy that just “gets it”…are you communicating to her that you realize this is a totally bullshit pretext that she is using to contact you but you know that so you don’t need to acknowledge it, just accept it, just accept that the lay is going to happen?

    Or are you communicating eagerness and thirst?

    Her (paraphrased): You almost had me.

    Deciphering girlspeak, “I wanted you to fuck me, but you didn’t make it happen”

    Curious to see the text exchange…

    Seems like this is still in play, but you will need to exercise some push.

  68. You cannot negotiate desire… Ever. Just realize when you start to enter negotiation mode that YOU are missing something.. take a step back and think about what you are missing. It’s got nothing to do with the actual situation being discussed.

  69. @Sentient

    Ya I thought it’d be a good joke/teasing thing. In retrospect it seemed needy and also basically makes it so that she has a hard time using that pretext in the future.

    Some of this is miswired internals, some is just bad calibration/technique. I’m starting to get a sort of twinge in my gut more and more often that tells me when something ‘isn’t right’ about some approach, and in retrospect those feelings tend to be spot on – but a lot still slips through.

    It’s helpful seeing them pointed out like that. Helps refine my filters.

    Just got back from a few hours of sarging and it’s late, but I’ll put up a more complete transcript tomorrow (identifying details changed of course)

    I’ll try and get a report of the sarge out too. Shouldn’t be too huge, a lot of it was just me finding my feet in a club environment again. BUT I will say in preview that I got my second (cold approach) # close so far, and coulda easy had the lay if it weren’t for me not being able to figure out logistics. Cause the club was too loud. Lol. She was all but banging me on and off the dance floor.

    Anyways it’s 3 am here so peace out

  70. Congrats on the accolades @Rollo! You sneaky MGTOW you….

    I would really like to get the full ppt. on that mediated feminisms digital misogynist hermeneutics. Anyone with the link?

  71. This is the 3rd time I was quoted by Rollo. Good times.

    I must disagree. This is a weird tit-for-tat argument. YourBrainonPorn is not a feminist plot. How many women have you seen posting on that site, or on NoFap? This is a project by men.

    Yes – a project with the tacit approval of the Feminine Imperative. It wouldn’t last long without it.

    You need to keep in mind that feminism doesn’t have a coherent approach to any issue. 3rd wave feminists approve of the porn industry, as long as it serves the FI. It did so back when it was lucrative, because it allowed even largely talentless women to earn a moderately good living by renting out their bodies. Now that the industry is in prolonged stagnation, it becomes a potential target for feminism, because there’s not much to gain by defending it or approving it.

    Women as a whole lack a coherent approach to porn as well. Their first impression is that it should be permitted, because otherwise we’d have a huge mass of thirsty betas and gammas seeking desire sex with women. Who wants that? However, many women recognize one long-term effect of free online porn, namely that it erodes the willingness of betas to prepare themselves for the role of loser cuck husband of a banged-out, aging cunt with baby rabies.

  72. Forge

    In looking back at the situation… no need to go into more detail. It all seems clear…

    Forge – “Sooo I’m thinking I shouldn’t re-open the topic ”

    Sentient “But hey no biggie, forget everything she said… never happened. ”

    Sentient – “IT in this case has zero to do with an actual massage. Forget this thinking…”

    YaReally “fucking lol Overgaming. I wouldn’t acknowledge it, ”

    Forge “I’m def. trying to ‘get the moment back’ here, like ‘nooo give me another chance universe, I understand now!’ But you’re right, best to move on like it didn’t happen. She’ll invent another excuse if she wants one. ”

    Forge “It’s good plausible deniability for her. It just needs to sound plausible not needy I guess.”

    </Blockquote"

    So here YOU understand exactly what NOT TO DO. And it is confirmed by everyone… You got it. You saw it.

    And yet despite this knowledge you go into what you know you shouldn't do and then reframe it to yourself like it was a good idea:

    “Ya I thought it’d be a good joke/teasing thing. In retrospect it seemed needy and also basically makes it so that she has a hard time using that pretext in the future.”

    This dissonance is the issue… between knowing what you need to do and rejecting it in the moment. This is the issue to solve. Why you do it.

    Ego protection? Lack of self worth? etc. Everything else [i.e. game theory and technique] is going to be a bust until you break through this barrier. Because you get it, you understand everything but you prefer to self sabotage.

    Good luck!

  73. @Forge

    you get one too…

    https://xrixterweb.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/tumblr_liqktawnmx1qadluio1_500.gif

    lol…

    you know, for as much as both YaReally and i recommend cold approach to get better at game, i can’t EVER remember either of us recommending doing that INSTEAD of closing a ‘hot approach’ hotty…lol…so, props on taking that initiative…lol…but i really think cold approach should be in ADDITION…lol…

    i know ‘hot approach’ girls are toooo easy (lol), but really…i think you might be missing some important point here…lol…

    follow YaReally’s advice and just treat it like you didn’t want to ‘entertain’ in a messy apartment, then just ignore that ‘it’ happened…buuut to actually close on this girl you are going to have to get over your beta self…lol… here’s some help…

    She’ll invent another excuse if she wants one.

    and how is THAT leading her?… you need to ‘just make it happen’ = YOU need to make the excuse…and assume that she still wants to come over…

    My question about that would be logistics I guess.

    you have your own place, right?…lol…that’s all you need to know…

    Don’t see a good way to get her from drink place to isolation (my place is a bit of a drive from good drink places, so it’s hard to be casual about the bounce and she’d prolly have to leave her car, which beggars plausible deniability of stuff like ‘oh come and see the pictures’ type stuff.

    so, START at home…problem solved!…lol…(i’m a f*kin’ genius!…lol)

    Sentient, SJF

    Right as usual. I could really use a few more plates here lol.

    i recommend starting with ONE…lol…then build up from there…lol

    Her: do you want your water jug? Lol. [I forgot it with her, it’s not at all important]
    Me: damn! Yes.
    Me: any chance you could develop crippling neck pain that requires my immediate attention this evening and just happen to bring it with you?

    this is beta talk…lol… and she’s going to register that as you chasing her (as opposed to ‘just getting it’)…see?:

    Her: We’ll see what magic I can work lol.

    Not sure how much it registered as just a joke.

    see above… not as just a joke…bc that’s you NOT owning it or HER…lol…

    We will see. Maybe shouldn’t have brought it up again but eh. If she pings me again tonight I’ll just shoot for a meetup directly ‘hey I’m at X, join me’ style,

    why not start at home?…serious question, bc you seem to be dancing around the edges here, and she can easily see that…lol

    bat away LMR-type uncertainties but just be chill with refusals. not is she’s not there…lol.

    Open sets if I see them, eventually bounce to downtown for more options if need be.

    that’s always a GREAT option…unless you are passing up an ACTUAL bang with a hotty to do it…lol…

    from @Culum
    @Forge dude – you got all the advice you need from Sentient and YaReally but I winced all the way over here reading that one.

    +1…lol…

    Culum

    Well I’m trolling like crazy for redemption for that gaffe as we speak. Basically she wants to come over but keeps throwing up obstacles like needing a shower, having to be up early, etc.

    that’s you slipping into the ljbf zone…

    Strong LMR here, [that’s not LMR…lol…for it to be LMR, she has to actually BE there…lol…] and it’s hard to do as much to diffuse over txt. [exactly!…lol] I’m giving myself 30% odds of success. At least I’m being assertive/confident this time:)

    too little too late…lol…

    Failure.

    wow!… i would have never guessed…lol…

    Her (paraphrased): You almost had me. If I wasn’t traveling tomorrow I’d come over. But I just had a busy week blah blah….

    that’s her hindbrain writing you off as alpha stud… you COULD still turn it around, but you have to follow protocol…lol…

    Damn. Ah well, gonna eat food and hit the town. I just replied with an ‘alright, another time’

    that’s a good out…buuut

    followed by well-wishes on her trip so it doesn’t come across as butt hurt (I tend to be verbose in texting so brusque texts risk that).

    ‘well-wishes’ don’t ping as butt-hurt, they’re worse…lol…they ping as beta orbiter…lol…so, she’ll still see you as potential provider/orbiter, not as a petulant jerk…lol…

    @Sentient

    Ya I thought it’d be a good joke/teasing thing. In retrospect it seemed needy and also basically makes it so that she has a hard time using that pretext in the future.

    at least you are getting a lesson out of it…lol…here’s a rhetorical for you…do you think her hindbrain thinks that its prime directive/mission for existence is a joking matter?…

    the FI uses that idea to push betas out of the running…bc you are not owning your sexual needs/desires…like an alpha stud would…i don’t know if you read my take on ‘best genetics’ but a girl’s hindbrain WANTS its male progeny to be able to get p in v fast and efficiently…and its female progeny to be able to filter for THAT ability fast and efficiently…

    it’s like kfg’s example of the human startle response and leopards/camoflage…lol…co-evolution to a final symbiotic interaction…

    I’m starting to get a sort of twinge in my gut more and more often that tells me when something ‘isn’t right’ about some approach, and in retrospect those feelings tend to be spot on – but a lot still slips through.

    this is good… here’s a game mantra for you that will short cut that regret…are you ready?…

    “bangNOW? bangNOW!!” (two words…one concept…lol…)

    basically, you should be feeling like the biggest horn-dog/walking hard-on ever unleashed on society…lol…and then you’ll be about halfway there…lol…

    Helps refine my filters.

    you should be actively getting RID of your filters…lol…bc they are beta attitude in motion…

    +1 on Sentient at 7:36am…

    good luck!

  74. @Sentient

    Alright. I think the issue is simple scarcity, at least mostly.

    I was feeling the pinch of the dry spell and wanted to just get her over already, which creates neediness/chasing. In that state I just sort of convince myself beta moves are good moves.

    I could actually see it going sarging last night – my state was kinda shit, all anxious and so on, and the night was basically an exercise in working myself out of that. I think I did a pretty efficient job and got my brain a bit more in a state of abundance and now I just feel a bit more grounded.

    So the issue is partly environmental – not building a state of actual abundance for myself yet – as well as not having the internal integrity to act as thought I had abundance anyways. It’s still a relatively unfamiliar state for me.

    I’ll save the FR for the new thread I think, but to kinda polish off this whole thing here – I actually would appreciate thoughts on the last round of texts between us. I’m trying to figure out if I was diffusing objections correctly (showing intent, leading, passing shit tests like ‘it’s too late’) or if it’s a bit too much and I was chasing.

    So context – I had mentioned in an earlier txt that I had a cocktail idea I needed some opinions on (we’re both interested in booze stuff). She was watching a movie with roommates but texted me through the whole thing about it – I gave her hints about ingredients, made some innuendo about it being a panty-dropper, and finally had her guessing on a final, obscure ingredient. When she couldn’t guess it she started dropping things like ‘save me some!’ and ‘I want to try it!’ in the convo.

    Up till then this conversation was basically beta bait I now realize. At least I was having fun with it. But I saw it as a potential opening and ran with it.

    Her: Could you save some? Maybe tasting it will help me.
    Me: Good timing! I was just mixing it up.
    Her: I feel like it’s something obvious lol [talking about the ‘secret ingredient’]
    Me: Kinda but not very. Come and see. We’ll sit on my deck and dissect the finer things in life. I just got home so I’m making food.
    Her: Gaaahhh you’re making it very tempting to come over lol
    Her: But I have to be at (carpool location) at 7 AM! [it’s about 9:30 pm now]
    Me: Lol no prob. Don’t have people here who are gonna rattle on about politics for 2 hours [this happened at the party at my house that ended w/makeouts, she had to go before I could escalate more cause it got very late/I was slow]
    Me: [sends pic of food I’m making. Chorizo tacos with chipotle aioli, roasted poblanos, and chimmichurri. I’m pretty good at cooking.]
    Her: Oh my gosh….you’re mean…that looks very good
    Me: Yeah I’m pretty good at this
    [a few minutes pass]
    Me: Lol c’mon. If you keep bellyaching it will be too late. Unless you can just sleep during the drive tomorrow. [last sentence is a mistake – negotiating]
    [minute or two passes]
    Her: I knowwwww….excuses excuses but I don’t think I should come over without a shower
    Her: I know I’m bellyaching but for real…I went pretty hard at the gym after work today…I havent taken a shower yet…just been face planting protein since I got home and relaxing after a long week…
    Me: My word. You don’t have any idea how little I care. I just got back from a hard hike through wet woods. Just come relax here instead. You’re just hitting an inertia speed bump.
    Her: Haha very nice word choice…[referring to ‘hard’ and ‘wet’ above I think, was unintentional lol] you almost had me but no, not tonight…I have an a huge week and tmrw with traveling it’s not going to get any less busy either. If I wasn’t going, then yes I’d come over.
    Her: Have had I should say…but next week could turn out to be huge too lol
    Me: Alright, another time.
    Me: Have a good trip tomorrow! It’s a beautiful city.
    Her: Mmm true! Thank you 🙂 I hope it goes well

    /conversation. I ate food and went downtown.

    Today she just texted me a pic from her trip – a store she thought would interest me w a description. Haven’t responded yet.

    See, my thought was – if I think I see a chance for sex I’m gonna go for it and not let her petty objections deter me. Bc she wants it too, I’m just helping make the choice for her so she’s ‘allowed’ to do it. And so I kept going for a bit there so long as it still seemed possible. As soon as I got an overt demurral I just rolled off zfg. But of course it could be my calibration is way off, which is why I’m posting this bit.

    Thanks for any input.

  75. @HABD

    “you know, for as much as both YaReally and i recommend cold approach to get better at game, i can’t EVER remember either of us recommending doing that INSTEAD of closing a ‘hot approach’ hotty…lol…so, props on taking that initiative…lol…but i really think cold approach should be in ADDITION…lol…
    i know ‘hot approach’ girls are toooo easy (lol), but really…i think you might be missing some important point here…lol…

    Right, as soon as I saw there might be a chance at isolation w/ an already interested girl that became my ‘plan A.’ Sarging was plan B.

    “She’ll invent another excuse if she wants one.”

    and how is THAT leading her?… you need to ‘just make it happen’ = YOU need to make the excuse…and assume that she still wants to come over…

    “My question about that would be logistics I guess.”

    you have your own place, right?…lol…that’s all you need to know…

    “Don’t see a good way to get her from drink place to isolation (my place is a bit of a drive from good drink places, so it’s hard to be casual about the bounce and she’d prolly have to leave her car, which beggars plausible deniability of stuff like ‘oh come and see the pictures’ type stuff.”

    so, START at home…problem solved!…lol…(i’m a f*kin’ genius!…lol)

    Well, it’s a bit of a relief that I did something right lol. This ended up being what I tried for – made an excuse for her to come to my place.

    Finally this is making a bit more sense. Amazing how long we can rationalize the obvious away to ourselves. Anything that isn’t leading to getting her over isn’t just useless – it’s overtly counterproductive. I mean, if you have fun sexual convos where she’s doing shit to herself at work in the bathroom and stuff that’s one thing – but that’s post-lay stuff, and even then it’s building anticipation for future meetups.

    “Strong LMR here, [that’s not LMR…lol…for it to be LMR, she has to actually BE there…lol…] and it’s hard to do as much to diffuse over txt. [exactly!…lol] I’m giving myself 30% odds of success. At least I’m being assertive/confident this time:)
    too little too late…lol…

    Good reminder re: LMR; acting like it’s that when we’re just texting is just keyboard jockeying.

    And ya, too little too late in the end. But a hell of a lot better than my total fail earlier this week, so I’m taking it as a win re: learning 🙂

    ‘well-wishes’ don’t ping as butt-hurt, they’re worse…lol…they ping as beta orbiter…lol…so, she’ll still see you as potential provider/orbiter, not as a petulant jerk…lol…

    Sentient was saying above that I’m too concerned about causing bad feelings. True enough. It just seemed incongruent to me to be brusque all the sudden at the end there when we were friendly/fun before. And so then that would come across as butthurt, like I was pissed she didn’t come over.

    So the problem actually was earlier when I was being friendly and fun with her even when I didn’t see the chance of the bang. My frame should be (for my personality, I’m a pretty positive guy) that I’m a good guy/ not randomly cruel or anything, but that my overwhelming interest with a girl is getting P in V – and if it’s not going there she just doesn’t get all that much attention at the moment. Cause I’m going after other prospects.

    After I bust a nut then I might have the focus to talk w/ her and chill and so on if I think she’s fun/interesting.

    It comes down to how important setting frame is from the start.

    I ran into that last week at the party actually. One of the primary takeaways was how I recognized how small things I had said and done earlier were coming back to haunt me as I tried escalating. I was having to reframe things on the fly. Actually turned out pretty well – there was a lot of shit to reframe, like she was asking me about what my religious virtues and shit were and I just had to make her see everything I was doing and was about in a different light.

    I’ll drop a bit of it here – I’d been building up kino, cutting space, etc as we talked till I had my arms all the way around her and she was right up against me. I said: “It looks like you want to kiss me.” Her breath went out in a nervous laugh – “I looks like I want to kiss you?” I tipped my head toward her. “I don’t know what to say…” She started babbling a bit. “I don’t know what to do, why is this….why are you…we could get in trouble…” I said, “Just try it like this” or some similar nonsense and kissed her and WHAM she’s grabbing me and pushing her tongue down my throat.

    Good time, she’s a lovely girl. I let my hands check her out. When I try to go under the shirt (she was fine w everything over the shirt) she bats my hand away; I just don’t break a stride w the kiss and let my hands pay attention elsewhere.

    When we break it off – “You’re…very forward” she says, adjusting her bra distractedly. Looking back I can see this was a possible time things could really go south. Also if I had reacted negatively to her drawing her boundaries. She had a terse look on her face. I just grinned. “Yes. But I’m very polite about it.” She softened up. “You are that.” She put her hands around my waist, and didn’t remove them for the rest of the night when we were talking. I then took the nonverbal communication that had happened there – that I was gonna go for what I wanted passionately, but that I respected her boundaries – into a story about how men who accomplish things need both a passion for doing things and the ability to deal with failure/adverse results without being hurt or down about them. Implied that that’s something that distinguishes a may such as say, me, from the boys her age she had been bitching to me about for being ‘immature.’

    Anyways this is getting long lol. Just thought it was a good example of how important frame is, and how setting it is far easier than changing it.

    at least you are getting a lesson out of it…lol…here’s a rhetorical for you…do you think her hindbrain thinks that its prime directive/mission for existence is a joking matter?…

    Heh, good. Hadn’t thought of it like that actually. This isn’t just fucking around for her.

    “the FI uses that idea to push betas out of the running…bc you are not owning your sexual needs/desires…like an alpha stud would…i don’t know if you read my take on ‘best genetics’ but a girl’s hindbrain WANTS its male progeny to be able to get p in v fast and efficiently…and its female progeny to be able to filter for THAT ability fast and efficiently…

    I mean, everything is nuanced. But that’s actually been a very useful concept for me – it’s most of the reason I realized I had to just go for it last night. Like this:

    “bangNOW? bangNOW!!” (two words…one concept…lol…)
    basically, you should be feeling like the biggest horn-dog/walking hard-on ever unleashed on society…lol…and then you’ll be about halfway there…lol…

    Thanks man.

  76. @Forge

    Thanks for any input.

    no time for more…

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/06/the-medium-is-the-message/

    ‘food’ = provisioning = beta…

    Me: Lol c’mon.

    = ‘oh, pretty pleeeeease….i reeeeally am chasing you…”…lol…

    Today she just texted me a pic from her trip – a store she thought would interest me w a description. Haven’t responded yet.

    don’t… not kidding…

    i think you could still turn it around, but you’ll need some actionable intel first and i don’t have time now…so, maybe YaReally or Sentient or somebody can weigh in…but either way it won;t hurt you to wait…

    good luck!

  77. This isn’t just fucking around for her.

    To expand on this for clarity – girls fuck around for fun and pleasure. Sometimes it’s just frivolous, esp. during the party years. BUT the arousal response she has in her hindbrain is something that her hindbrain takes very seriously. It knows it can’t afford to make a bad choice. This is what leads to beta shaming and shit testing – she needs badly to know that a guy has ‘good genes’ before getting turned on/starting to make sexual choices.

  78. hollenhund2
    You need to keep in mind that feminism doesn’t have a coherent approach to any issue. 3rd wave feminists approve of the porn industry, as long as it serves the FI.

    And the 2nd wave feminists hated porn. Andrea Dworkin got her first media splash by equating porn to rape and attempting to criminalize it as such; Women Against Pornograpy or some such organization had a brief success in some state like Minnesota back in the 80’s. The ostensible justification for hating on porn was “objectification”. I suspect the real reason was the same thing Churchian women have; competition. Fapping to porn offers a man an alternative to the IV drip of starfish sex that controls him.

    Funny how much women crave control, and how much they crave losing control.

  79. Forge

    I’m trying to figure out if I was diffusing objections correctly (showing intent, leading, passing shit tests like ‘it’s too late’) or if it’s a bit too much and I was chasing.

    Her: Could you save some? Maybe tasting it will help me.
    Me: Good timing! I was just mixing it up.
    Her: I feel like it’s something obvious lol [talking about the ‘secret ingredient’]
    Me: Kinda but not very. Come and see. We’ll sit on my deck and dissect the finer things in life. I just got home so I’m making food.
    Her: Gaaahhh you’re making it very tempting to come over lol
    Her: But I have to be at (carpool location) at 7 AM! [it’s about 9:30 pm now]
    Me: well you better get moving then. see you in a half hour. bye

    Leading often comes from commanding… Come here, hold this, let’s go, kiss me, bend over etc etc.

    So if you cut something like this off short, she will still probably try and weedle you with a bunch of “i caaaaaan’t” texts… but you’ve set the frame to just ignore those. You ignore those. she shows up or not. It’s the lack of response to these texts that causes the hindbrain to muzzle the hamster and tell her… get over there… this egg ain’t going to inseminate itself !!!

    It’s the same dynamic as when you are getting physical and she slows you down and you just back off calmly… let her stew in her juices and she comes raring back…

    You are the one offering her value here. Oh and on that point, you could toss in a compliance test, “hey bring a [whatever] with you”…

    So I don’t see where you overcame any objections or passed any shit tests in that thread…

    Me: Alright, another time.
    Me: Have a good trip tomorrow! It’s a beautiful city.
    Her: Mmm true! Thank you:) I hope it goes well

    Even here in this part ^^, you could have challenged her, made her uncomfortable, something like:

    ME:OMG how old are you? You sound like my grandmother… LOL #YOLOfail

    It’s OK to push her and make her rise to a challenge… Let her miss out on a night with you with something like that, and no further texts from you… and you are setting the stage for increased interest from her next time. Teh hamster will put a lot of time on the wheel thinking about it… And when the string is pulled and the cat must chase…

    This is why go to texts ike Gay/LOL/… are go to texts and logical rational rebuttals and negotiation never work…

  80. @Forge

    Way too much pull without any push dude!

    Also, I get it that you like/are good at cooking, but NEVER show that overtly to girls you try to bang, it’s a major beta tell, even more if you invite them.
    A better frame is “I’m good at cooking but I don’t know yet if you deserve it.”

    Also, watch the number of times you are reinitiating the convo…

    By text, I view it like this : you have a limited number of times you can invite her to do something, every time you do and she declines, you lose value, and have to wait until it comes back up (by DHVing, “forcing” her to reinitiate contact etc.) to try again.
    This is ultimately why texting is a losing game in our day and age : you should absolutely capitalize on when you see her face to face to progress in the pull. If you see her face to face and nothing happens, you won’t have an infinite number of “tries”, likely one or two more until you are filled in the beta orbiter category

  81. Thanks Sentient, Klem. This is all very helpful. I see in this case the best way to ‘push’ is to just ignore shit.

    Generate interest, dictate a course of action, then just ignore anything that doesn’t move towards compliance.

    This is all kinda interesting. I think my texting game is actually pretty far behind my in-person game, bc I just haven’t had much opportunity to practice it. And I’m also using it as a buffer, so I can have fun flirty texts and tell myself I’m doing well w/o it going anywhere.

    In a similar way I can hook sets pretty efficiently now but have difficulty generating a close from it bc I haven’t gotten to that stage very often yet.

    She initiated convo yesterday – I think just to probe out if I was mad or something – and I basically just used it to screen for logistics, they didn’t work so I just went about my day. And again today, going on about how she needs to bring her car in and cant’ drive anywhere bla bla but hopefully can drive again by Thurs. Me: ‘cool’

    Oh, I actually used something like your idea yesterday, Sentient. We ended the convo something like: Her: well, I need to be up early so my night is gonna look very different from yours. I’m jealous.
    Me: You should be. I don’t need to sleep 11 hours a night. I guess that can happen when you get on in years a bit….

    We’ll see how it goes. I’ll put any significant updates/FR’s into the new thread.

  82. forge

    Sounds like you have it worked out. Good luck.

    “I’m also using it as a buffer, so I can have fun flirty texts and tell myself I’m doing well w/o it going anywhere.” dancing monkey is not just in person.

    “And again today, going on about how she needs to bring her car in and cant’ drive anywhere bla bla but hopefully can drive again by Thurs. Me: ‘cool’”

    Great progress for you. See the chum… know there is a hook in their… avoid the chum.

    Just think like she is probably doing this same kind of orbiter routine on 6 other dudes for some attention… so when you aren’t falling into her frame and going for it, you are starting to stand out from the pack. That 0.01% yo.

  83. @Forge

    you got some good advice from Sentient and Klem…

    She initiated convo yesterday – I think just to probe out if I was mad or something – and I basically just used it to screen for logistics, they didn’t work so I just went about my day. And again today, going on about how she needs to bring her car in and cant’ drive anywhere bla bla but hopefully can drive again by Thurs. Me: ‘cool’

    and this is much better…but what part of ‘don’t…’ didn’t you understand?…lol… so, you waited what? 2 whole DAYS before you HAD to be in contact with her?…lol…

    look into YaReally’s archive for ‘go dark’ protocol on texting… when you are stuck in a beta frame, the best way to turn it around is to ‘reset’ and the way to do that is to let some time pass and try again… (and ‘incongruence’ is your friend…lol…bc being ‘congruent’ to beta frame is killing you…lol)… bc you are still in her frame here… can you see that?… = she texts, you jump… = you as reactive = beta (not leading…)

    her ‘probing’ was her hindbrain showing some doubt about putting you into orbiter status…lol…bc you were off NOT RESPONDING to her like she expected (see how incongruence works?…)… then, you respond to her aaaand…. her hindbrain goes “wheeeuuuww… i guess i didn’t make a mistake after all…”…lol… bc you are ‘on-call’ for her texting… as opposed to ‘being busy with your other hot girls’/doing other important shit in your life…lol… bc when you respond to her = she is more important than ALL of THAT…AND you are still not getting sex from her…lol…can you see how this is her as the prize/you CHASING?…

    Oh, I actually used something like your idea yesterday, Sentient. We ended the convo something like: Her: well, I need to be up early so my night is gonna look very different from yours. I’m jealous.
    Me: You should be. I don’t need to sleep 11 hours a night. I guess that can happen when you get on in years a bit….

    nice burn…lol…but how is that moving forward to sex?…AND can you see how this is still her frame (all about HER…)?…lol…she tries to make it about YOU…aaaand…you bounce the ‘lead’ back to her…lol…

    these are all subcomms btw…lol…and you should ‘subcomm’ that YOU are the prize…by talking about how awesome your night was going to be…lol… like Klem told you = DHV before you can get her over…can you see how talking about her being ‘less’ doesn’t increase YOUR value…even to her?… (relative value doesn’t count… bc that’s NOT increasing your pre-selection potential…lol…)

    good luck!

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