Ghosts in the Machine

ghosts_inthe_machine

Hollenhund had an interesting response to a question posed in last week’s post that I thought I might come back to here:

1) Why is there “yourbrainonporn” for men, and not “yourbrainonyourdildocollection” for women? “yourbrainoneroticnovels” “yourbrainon50shadesofgray” “yourbrainonTwilight” “yourbrainonhavingtoomanyorbiters” “yourbrainongettingtoomanymessagesinyourinboxonokcupid”? MEN are the ones that it’s a “problem” if they want variety. MEN are the ones that have to change. MEN are the ones that have to fight their biology. hmmm…I wonder why THAT is. Maybe to help create more Softeks, where the girl can cheat on her boyfriend with him and then shame him for looking at another girl

I doubt their goal is that specific. This new narrative about porn addiction being a public health problem is obviously seen by its supporters as yet further ground for political consensus between feminists and social conservatives. It’s not that feminists want to turn the porn industry, or what remains of it, into a political target again, it’s that they need a narrative that is aligned with the Feminine Imperative and moves public discourse about the mating market away from subjects they, and women in general, are very uncomfortable with.

As long as the mainstream media pushes this narrative about young men getting addicted to online porn and thus opting out of the mating market, it will largely stifle any public discourse about the popularity of female emotional porn (romantic literature), and also the real potential causes of widespread porn use, like the drop in average female quality on the mating market and unrestrained hypergamy. Social conservatives, feminists, and the majority of common folk will, of course, be happy to put all blame on men for any social problem, real or not. And it’s very obvious that porn addiction isn’t a problem they want to actually do anything about, it’s more like an excuse for women to whine and moan. Frankly I’m very skeptical about the whole issue of porn addiction, because if something just happens to perfectly fit into the Feminine Imperative, it’s probably no accident. And one wonders how much scientific evidence there actually is for it.

I’ve addressed the physiological and social associations of male masturbation in the past in The Pheromonal Beta, as well as Pathologizing the Male Sexual Response. The “lively” discussion about male masturbation in this week’s comments notwithstanding, the topic du jour in the Twittershpere also seemed to coincide with this topic.

Personally, I think the ‘moral’ dictates about jerking off follows evolutionarily pragmatic reasons for male shame in masturbation while female masturbation is an arousal cue and seen as a positive. Female masturbation is a cue for sexual availability while male masturbation is essentially a Beta Tell.

That’s the nuts and bolts of it from the bio-evolutionary perspective, but as with all other inherently male thumbscrews, the Feminine Imperative has long exploited the sociological implications of men’s need for sex. One thing that slips by relatively unnoticed with social conventions that serve the Feminine Imperative is that the same presumptions that would serve a masculine (in this case sexual) imperative are always shamed or stereotyped – that is until they come into a context that is  useful to the feminine.

Sex Sells What?

“Sex sells” is a cliché that can be used in the positive for women, but it is always a negative for men. For women, sold sex in advertising, romantic literature, the meteoric popularity of ‘divorce porn’ for married  women, or really any media that stimulates women’s sexual interests is always seen as positive, empowering and exceptional. Even if what their being sold is seedy or can have a potentially negative consequence, in a feminine-primary social order women ‘own’ sex from today’s social perspective. In other words, society at large is expected to defer to women on issues of sex and, by association, romance, love, etc.

Women can still be sold  something or induced to buy a product or to adopt a mindset, but that article or the message that’s meant to be internalized is associated with the ‘positive’ of a sexual inference with women.

For men, male sexuality is always a negative association unless that sexuality is expressed in a way that complements women’s sexual strategy. Something being sold via sex to men is either seen as preying upon an inherent weakness (or dependency) for sex or it’s paired with ridicule for men being typical ‘pigs’ and they’re unable to dissociate sex from the objectification of women. So ingrained is this shame-association that men have adapted sexual competition strategies around it in order to identify better with women in the hopes they will be perceived as “not like other, typical, sex hungry men” and that their intimate interests are motivated by something more ephemeral that sex.

The social utility of this shame-association, of course, parallels the utility of Male Catch 22 for the Feminine Imperative, but there’s a useful  duplicity for women in this inescapable shame of male sexuality. For instance, when women seek to convince both themselves and men that fat-acceptance and “changing the standards of beauty” should be men’s metric for wanting to fuck and pair with less desirable women, we see the usefulness of that duplicity. Men are useful in the perception that they’re sexually uncontrollable pigs for being so gullible as to allow “society” and advertising agency to define what they think is arousing.  However, the Feminine Imperative will readily use (or attempt to use) that same weakness  to exploit men into acting against their own, evolved, sexual best interests by selling them the ideal of accepting fat women as a new standard of beauty.

There are no feminine parallels for the pathologizing of the female sex response because those would simply be hindrances to women optimizing their Hypergamous imperatives. Why are there no “yourbrainonporn” sites for women? Why are there no XXXChurch equivalents for the ladies? Why are there no support groups for women ‘addicted’ to romance novels or divorce porn movies? Because that exclusively male pathologizing is only beneficial to the female sexual strategy.

This is the depth of control that the female-primary imperative seeks over men – that our most base biological, existential need should be distorted and psychologically molded by shame to the point of instilling lifelong neurosis and conditioning fear-based gender self-loathing to effect women’s sexual strategy above all other considerations.

I’ll quote the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies once more here: for one sex’s strategy to succeed the other’s must either be compromised or abandoned. Whether subtly instilled or publicly shame-conditioned, associating men’s sexuality with sickness or perversion, weakness, and disability, the underlying purpose is an effort in convincing men to abandon any claim to their own sexual imperative in favor of that of women’s.

Slut Shaming

If this seems like a sea change from the old order days when women were shamed for even the hint of promiscuity while men were lauded for their own sexual exploits, what you’re seeing is the societal shift to feminine social primacy. There was a time when sexual indiscretion was something that shamed women. Today, it’s almost laughable that there should be a need for a social convention like “slut shaming”. There is no such social referencing, but if men on whole can be put to shame for the belief that other men might still cling to older order reservations about women’s sexual exploits it serves to place women’s sexual strategy above that of men’s.

There is always the old standby – the horrible “double standard” about men banging a lot of women being heroes while women who bang a lot of men are sluts (“it sooooo unfair!”). This is a laughable, antique social convention in an era of slut walks and female-centric birth control, but it’s still the reflexive go-to trope when the mechanics of pathologizing men’s sexuality comes to light.

Sex-positive feminism has always been a two-edged sword for women. That positivity ‘fempowers’ women so long as they cling to the old order missives about the Patriarchy repressing that sexuality while it simultaneously disqualifies their complaints of it as Hypergamy becomes more and more openly embraced.

Ghosts in the Machine

Hollenhund continues for us:

YaReally and hoellenhund, you’re talking about all this VR porn stuff but isn’t this basically the same dynamic as prostitution? Same kind of alternative sexual relief (that is not your wife) and same reason why the FI shames prostitutes and men who use prostitutes etc..because they lower the “price” of sexual release..?

YeReally has already answered your question well, I’d say. He brought VR porn up, I didn’t, because I was observing the current situation, not something that only exists today as a potential future development.

I’d add that the dynamic is somewhat different. Apparently the state is willing to penalize prostitution, at least to a degree that makes it sufficiently risky and expensive for many men to avoid it, and the majority of women and their male bootlickers are willing to support political efforts to suppress it. Neither of that applies to pornography of any sort. Women will complain about it, they will support a narrative that portrays it specifically as a problem caused by men, but it’s not like anyone actually wants to make an effort to do something about it. Do you think any woman wants to date, or have sex with, a reformed porn addict? Do you think women want porn addicts to get out of the basement, get their shit together, and hit on women in order to get real-life sex?

For the record, I’m not going to deny that excessive masturbation is unhealthy, or that excessive porn use can elicit unrealistic expectations of sex in a mind of an inexperienced man. Anything should be done in moderation, that goes without saying. But the current public discourse on porn and its effects is complete BS.

I’ve forgotten where I saw the quote posted, so I’ll paraphrase it a bit (I think it may have been Illimitable Man), but there’s a new concept I read about how human beings’ experience of consciousness is now assuming a new, third, aspect – the immediate, the internal and now, the virtual.

The immediate experience is one in which you directly relate with people in real time. It’s you physically and vocally interacting with others. The internal is the conversations you have with yourself and both your conscious and subconscious interpretation of what you’re experiencing, learning, behaving, etc. (i.e. what you’re thinking).

However, the virtual (or digital) aspect of consciousness is something humans have only recently developed and are now on the cutting edge of really understanding. The virtual experience is what I’m doing now as I type this post. I’m relating to you what’s going on in my thought process (to the degree of which I’m aware of it) in a virtual medium. Virtual porn, virtual games, virtual shopping, etc., really anything you do in a digital realm is part of this new form of ‘being’.

Humans in 2016 experience things in ways that our forebearers could scarcely dream of. Our immediate and internal experiences are now being informed by out virtual experiences – in accelerated ways that I don’t think most people really appreciate. The Feminine Imperative is now fighting to establish a foothold in this virtual experience. Thus, we see efforts like GamerGate meant to lock down a control over how men will be allowed to experience this virtual reality. We also see the preliminary efforts to both socially and legislatively institute feminine-primary controls over yet to be developed possibilities of virtual experiences.

Jerking off to ubiquitous, free, online porn is one such experience that the Feminine Imperative has had to play catch-up to with regard to restricting men’s access to it. And thus, we get contingent social controls from the imperative to counter this lack. It’s not enough that men be shamed for their sexual response to online porn. The accessibility makes this impractical, but there’s really no ‘sales’ transaction for which men would feel their sexual “weakness” being exploited.

However, the counter to this then becomes making men’s sexuality itself a disease. “Porn Addiction”, sex addiction, in a religious context even ‘impure thoughts’ become a disease not to be cured, but to be managed by women – women’s definitions, women’s approvals and disapprovals, women’s sexual strategy interests.

And porn is just the tip of the iceberg with regard to the Feminine Imperative’s controls of men’s virtual experiences with women.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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SJF
Guest
SJF

Ouch. Ouch. Fucking Ouch,

The original post picture. Illustrates the OP too well. Oh well.
I rarely can opine on the original post because it is too real, too important.
Too ouchy.

Beyond great quality writing, Thanks.

Seraph
Guest

Politics is downstream from culture. – Andrew Breitbart As invested in the concept of RP as I am, and as much as I like and respect TRM and Rollo, one sometimes has a reflexive rejection to the term Feminine Imperative, because it seems too pat, too conspiratorial, too easy an answer. Is there really some sort of cabal that exists and operates, pushing these agendas? Of course, we can then argue that being literally woven into their DNA, it is a subconscious routine running in women’s that can and does manifest itself just like trees bud and then drop leaves… Read more »

Mycroft Jones
Guest
Mycroft Jones

Here is an example, I suspect, of the Feminine Imperative ALREADY trying to lock down Virtual Reality sex. A few years ago a company called “RealTouch” invented a “virtual sex” machine. I read the reviews. After trying it, a gay guy said pussy feels better than gay sex. (but he would stay gay). A reporter in a relationship used very guarded language, talking about how “intense” the experience was. He all but said it was the best sex he’s ever had. And other reviews like that. Now, at the moment, most online reviews say the “FleshLight” feels “almost” like a… Read more »

Gonzalo
Guest
Gonzalo

This reminds me of the 18th and 19th century hysterics over people reading too much when books started to become readily available. The Germans even had words like “lesensucht” (reading addiction) and “Lesewut” (reading madness). In those days, it was pointed out that women spent too much time reading romantic novels, drawing them away from more useful or constructive activities. The issue was eventually dropped and this addiction to “virtual reality” romance still exists today. I don’t think the female need to control and the male willingness to accept blame or guilt will allow this one to die a natural… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

This is kind of on time with Prince’s death. There’s been talk and articles going around about how Prince respected women so much. One article even came up with the point that it’s one of the things that she wanted her son to learn from Prince. Many are motivated by how often Prince would have female groups that he was behind creating or musicians in his band. He even supposedly had an all female team of lawyers. News anchor Tamron Hall came out with how close friends she was with him and said that she would often send pictures of… Read more »

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

Also, burden of performance. No shame tactics, tropes, or memes for any of female masturbation, porn addictions, sex sells, etc…
Women can always fall back on “well if I could find a man that could…”
Things tie together like they always do.

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

Longest video of Triggly Puff I’ve seen so far.

xsplat
Guest

In the comments on the last post, some married men took offence at my declaration that deep down all men want some sexual variety, and that the only reason that married men didn’t pursue young strange is because of not knowing how to. I’ll admit right now I could be wrong about this presumption. But I’m going to explain why I have it. I think sour grapes is a gigantic drive in how the brain works. Why have unrealistic expectations? That can only lead to pain. Want is a painful emotion, and there is much life satisfaction to be gained… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

I’m also going to amend my original claim. The reason married men don’t pursue young women is because they don’t know how to *without too much damage to the rest of their life*. So there are two separate and overlapping reasons; 1) they may see young women as out of reach, and 2) they don’t have the multiple long term relationship skills to be able to manage more than one relationship, especially with their current wife. It can be one, the other, or both.

Joe
Guest
Joe

This hypocrisy reminds me of an incident I saw on TV a few years ago. The mixed doubles final at Wimbledon. During the presentation ceremony for thw winners, the crowd got excited as did the interviewer. There was all sorts of innuendo as they all guessed that the girl was into the guy. The girl encouraged this, she was all coy and giggly. So why did this get under my skin? The girl was ugly and the man was handsome. My instinct was telling me that everyone in that stadium was completely ignoring the man and his wants. Now more… Read more »

Driver
Guest
Driver

I see and I hear of too many men not “owning” it when it comes to these accusations of too much porn or sexual desires as a man. That, to me, is the real problem because once you own it there is no where else to go. Men need to realize that women are large children so if a child walked up to you and said such nonsense (shaming) then you would laugh, right? The same should be applied to women (and society as a whole for trying to shame men). Another argument or response (just for giggles) is to… Read more »

Niko Choski (@nikochoski)
Guest

Porn and the objectification of women has been shamed for the longest time. Once you realise shame is an artificial construct meant to make you obey to the social narrative, you reject it as much as everything else. This one thing that MGTOW’s definitely got going for them. They do not deny they have carnal desires, they just don’t suppose they need to get them met from real girls out there. Some do but not all. The price of pussy has plummeted and if I am being honest, these are desperate attempts from society to keep it artificially high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTT_hOUXMTo… Read more »

ozza
Guest
ozza

When I get horny, I pull up some porn on my laptop, jerk off, and I’m done.
A lot cheaper than a hooker, or having to pay for dinner and listen to a female talk crap for a few hours.
Works for me.

Bachelorocles
Guest
Bachelorocles

They have a language used to depict and shame men who refuse rationally and for solid reasons to sacrifice themselves in service of her biology.

Immature, fear of commitment, refuses to grow up, and Peter Pan Syndrome mean a male unwilling to work a soul crushing job to support her brood and unwilling to enter into a child support-alimony-prostitution contract with her.

Mature = a male willing to sacrifice in service of her biology and enter into a draconian child support-alimony-prostitution contract.

M Simon
Guest

I’m having some luck in teaching Christians about this stuff. Here is my start:

https://www.hotgas.net/2016/05/the-gay-marriage-scam/

Basically it is about no fault divorce.

IAS
Guest
IAS

Even though most of the shaming and such is indeed FI in play, I would defend there is some merit to avoid raising your own hedonic treadmill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

It seems to me conceivable that masturbating too much with a strong grip or watching too much of the more extreme types of pornography will indeed desensitize you to less extreme experiences in “real life”.

Of course, while “yourbrainonporn” is discussed more or less mainstream, phenomena like women getting “Alpha widowed” isn’t. Which is part of the point that Hoellenhund was getting at in his post.

ozza
Guest
ozza

@IAS I’ve just invented the flogaloggripometer. Lets me know when I’m gripping the Johnson too tightly.
Maybe I should patent it and try make some money?

Andy
Guest
Andy

“The reason married men don’t pursue young women is because they don’t know how to *without too much damage to the rest of their life*. So there are two separate and overlapping reasons; 1) they may see young women as out of reach, and 2) they don’t have the multiple long term relationship skills to be able to manage more than one relationship, especially with their current wife. It can be one, the other, or both.”

@xsplat

+1

SJB
Guest
SJB

@xsplat: A counter-hypothesis which you may not have considered: if I recall you have not had children: a man’s time is consumed with children—providing, teaching, leading – for 20 or more years. When all the children fly to their own roosts the man says “Well and good. I’m going fishing.”

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

“This is the depth of control that the female-primary imperative seeks over men – that our most base biological, existential need should be distorted and psychologically molded by shame to the point of instilling lifelong neurosis and conditioning fear-based gender self-loathing to effect women’s sexual strategy above all other considerations.”

A good deal of my trauma with my direct kin came from this.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8ChCNOb70CMV05pIHFEHkw
Two pair bonding porn stars?

Than you have this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx-p9Wr6xg0

Fabian thyman and manwin (porn empire) all tube sites and most pay sites except one.

LeeLee
Guest

This is interesting. What I’m thinking is that actually, within the Christian world that I live in there is equal weight in terms of seriousness/shame in for female porn addiction/masturbation. There is actually a hotline run by a local Christian woman for girls who feel tempted to masturbated! Any female can call and she’ll personally talk them down. And there are XXXChurch products for women. I’ve used them. But.. according to your theory here this could still be a form of punishing or suppressing male sexuality.. because porn addiction in a woman is definitely an issue of masculinization in some… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

@xsplat

May 2nd, 2016 at 12:56 am

How bout you just stop lecturing, here?

Cause it feels like nails on a chalkboard. And not because some of us are un-comfortable in our circumstances despite your hectoring that we are.

SJB
Guest
SJB

@Rollo: While I don’t disagree with your article I think it misses woman appropriating male virtue admonishment. That is, men are creative and that creativity can be dissipated or harnessed. So older males attempted, in the past, to help younger males come into balance. I.e. the teaching of virtue ethics via example and minor lecture. On the contrary women are not at all creative compared to males. They have nothing to harness. At best they mimic older male admonishment toward younger males. At worst, as you discussed, they participate in male shaming because it fills the emptiness of their envy.… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

The FI only has two ways to gain leverage. Money or legislation. I think that the FI is frustrated that they can’t get a foothold into video games and virtual spaces because they actually think that the reason they have an influence in TV, print media other consumer driven media is out of some sort of moral high ground. When in reality the only reason they have influence in consumer driven media is that there is a financial interest in appeasing women. There’s absolutely zero financial interest in catering to the FI in video games or online porn. Follow the… Read more »

Ned
Guest
Ned

“In the comments on the last post, some married men took offence at my declaration that deep down all men want some sexual variety, and that the only reason that married men didn’t pursue young strange is because of not knowing how to.”

Yeah it’s really weird that anyone might take offence when you suggest that all men lack all personal agency, have no loyalty, and their base natures can’t possibly be restrained if they have any other options.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

comment image

It is interesting that the vibrator has always been heralded… perhaps not openly for sex initially, but now it is undeniably promoted as a standard, ehem, “fixture” of the modern lady’s life.

Hmm
Guest
Hmm
xsplat
Guest

@Ned ” and their base natures can’t possibly be restrained if they have any other options.”

This kind of idea is outside of my frame of reference.

Why you want to restrain your base (sexual) nature?

Why not harness it instead?

I fail to see how there is any negative to our base sexual natures.

If you have negatives to your base sexual nature, it’s because you’ve chosen a life where other people don’t want you to be sexual, and you have given them power over you.

It isn’t because your base sexual nature is actual bad in any way.

mersonia
Guest

@Xsplat “I’m also going to amend my original claim. The reason married men don’t pursue young women is because they don’t know how to *without too much damage to the rest of their life*. So there are two separate and overlapping reasons; 1) they may see young women as out of reach, and 2) they don’t have the multiple long term relationship skills to be able to manage more than one relationship, especially with their current wife. It can be one, the other, or both.” Your statements are too general. Posting retarded statements like this neglect the fact that .… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

@Xplat I don’t carry doubt or lack self-awareness of what you wrote last night in the other essay thread. It is just that you are pressing too hard to tell others their business. Said better by Deida in The Way of the Superior Man. (yes it is too new-agey, but….) You Will Often Want More Than One Woman Any man with a masculine sexual essence will desire sexual variety. Even if he loves his intimate partner and is completely committed to her, he will naturally want sexual occasions with other women besides his chosen intimate partner. How a man deals… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky

“However, the counter to this then becomes making men’s sexuality itself a disease. “Porn Addiction”, sex addiction, in a religious context even ‘impure thoughts’ become a disease not to be cured, but to be managed by women – women’s definitions, women’s approvals and disapprovals, women’s sexual strategy interests.” It’s an interesting detail that this is a disease to be managed rather than cured. A lot of the greatest cons work like this; for example, in Scientology, they tell you there are things wrong with you that they have the solution – if you pay them progressively more money. It doesn’t… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

@SJF. Great quote. No, I don’t want to dictate to others what to do with their life. I’m describing reality as I see it, not proscribing one. The quote you gave was more prescriptive than I am. @Mersonia “1) Some married men have the “integrity” to stick to the commitment they made to be monogamous” Yes, they do. That’s not something that I have in my value system. I have great doubts about the value of such “integrity”. My main integrity is to be happy and fulfilled and enrich the lives of those around me. If marriage eventually gets in… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Scientology, they tell you there are things wrong with you that they have the solution – if you pay them progressively more money. It doesn’t ever get ‘cured.’

They got this from pharma no doubt.

Andy
Guest
Andy

I just don’t see how loyalty isn’t an implement of the FI… Integrity… to whose morals? The FI? I really don’t care either way, but it’s just like… what are you getting from monogamy that I’m not?

Deida says: “But this desire is not an excuse for promiscuity, any more than your enjoyment of TV is an excuse for becoming an obese couch potato.”

Ehhh, seems to me like Deida has some lingering FI programming in there. Just because you write a good book doesn’t make you some sort of infallible God.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Andy They only way they would be able to control virtual space would be through legislation in which they would have to have a weird alliance with social conservatives… I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened. It would hilarious to watch. haha. Already happened back in the 90’s when the “Violence Against Women Act” was jammed into law. Feminists, tradcons, socons, all got on the bandwagon. That law is what made false accusations of DV both potent and without risk. It’s one of the things that makes marriage more dangerous for men. Porn, like any other audio/video, is just a… Read more »

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“Jerking off to ubiquitous, free, online porn”

why is it free?

why does a person/group give away their produce for free?

who owns/operates these websites?

what do the owners/operaters want to achieve?

my default position on “do you want a free sample?” is, NO!

real live pussy is the only free thing worth taking, but never when it’s advertised as such

it’s not a ghost in the machine. it’s a slow-acting poison

orgasm leads to prolactin release. everything has a cost

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky

@Sentient Gotta sell a problem before you can sell a solution. ‘Something’s wrong with you and I have the solution’ is the basis of every con, and nearly every sale, ever performed. But at least Pharma started out with some pretty damn good innovations. Turns out there’s only so many highly-beneficial single chemical agents out there, though, so now that they’re scraping the bottom of the biochemical barrel they have to get rather creative in how they keep the pharmacological modality solvent. Damn, I’m off-topic already. @pua haters – I got FR’s but I’ll keep ’em off the front page… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

Not disagreeing with what you said Xplat, just how you said it. Yeah, prescriptive advice is lacking. This is the best cut and paste that I have ever had the privilege of plagiarizing. Keep these points in mind when you realize how not to be betatized in LTR game is to keep yourself as a single man would operate. From: http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Female-Psychology-Man-ebook/dp/B00RR6RNO6/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 Female Stages of Manipulation We believe that manipulation is an instinctual behavior deeply rooted within female biology. Manipulation is also a learned behavior, due to one’s need for survival. From a biological point of view there is not too… Read more »

Pellaeon
Guest
Pellaeon

why is it free?

Well technically it’s not really. Many of the “free” porn sites actually come riddled with spyware, adware, and Trojans. So the fee isn’t charged up front, it’s taken in the form of stolen credit card numbers and stolen processing power on your computer. There’s also ads on the less shady sites, so the same deal applies there as for television and YouTube.

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky

@AR re: cocktease

If you’re trying to train a dog, and aren’t particularly humane about it, a good way to do it would be to:

A: keep it hungry
B: let it know you have food

A doesn’t work without B.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Forge
It’s an interesting detail that this is a disease to be managed rather than cured

Well, sure. One guarantees endless work for “therapists”, the other doesn’t. One requires endless meddling in someone’s life, the other doesn’t.

“Managing” a “disease” creates a marionette on strings, whereas “curing” doesn’t.

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“I just don’t see how loyalty isn’t an implement of the FI… ” loyalty to my wife has nothing to do with sexual monogamy on my part. it means that she knows where the cash and metal are buried. this is for my benefit, not hers. I can’t see 360 degrees. she has my back. she’s got mad skills. survival skills. good insticts. a killer sense of direction. she makes me stronger. plus I can fuck her whenever I want to clear my head. no man is an island. at some point you have to trust someone. with a good… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

“Already happened back in the 90’s when the “Violence Against Women Act” was jammed into law. Feminists, tradcons, socons, all got on the bandwagon. That law is what made false accusations of DV both potent and without risk.”

@AR

Good point, uniting for a common cause would just a be good feels love fest.

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky

I can see Xplat’s posts might get us a bit off the rails. Before railing against his (I think very logical) point, I think you have to figure out: what, for you, is monogamy FOR? There are some legitimate answers to this. For example, if you believe in God and that he requires monogamy, it would be reasonable to be monogamous even if your instincts said otherwise. But that doesn’t have very much to do with what he saying; what he’s saying is that, even in such circumstances, it would be in our instinctive nature to not be monogamous. We… Read more »

SJB
Guest
SJB

@Andy: I just don’t see how loyalty isn’t an implement of the FI… Integrity… to whose morals? Young males usually had learned about loyalty and integrity from older male; male cohesion kept the fires burning and meat on the spit. The FI of a singular woman may attempt to co-opt the tendency of a male to remain loyal and act with integrity – witness the number of military men who treat their wives as if that woman were one of his team mates. It’s pretty slick on her part. So, yeah, the FI can use loyalty and integrity but cannot… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

@Andy

“but it’s just like… what are you getting from monogamy that I’m not?”

Would you believe me if I told you I am not arguing for monogamy?

But I am comfortable with it. It is simply “less messy” as described in that Tyler hour long video posted by YaReally. And it’s not for easy pussy, although the pussy is fine. Motive and opportunity do indeed play a role.

And I’d be a rich man if I had a nickle for every time a married man thought of the fact that he wouldn’t marry again if he were single tomorrow.

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

” Just look at the ‘addiction’ that the virtual worlds of MPORGs (World of Warcraft) inspired”

Lots of men have zero experience in those worlds. lots of men don’t watch porn. starting to look like all this gaming/vr/porn stuff is a trap, intentional or not

the fiber optic pipe may be the biggest shit test of all time

Andy
Guest
Andy

“But I am comfortable with it. It is simply “less messy” as described in that Tyler hour long video posted by YaReally.” @SJF Are we ALL on the same page regarding monogamy?!?! lol. Progress!!! “Thus, the logical solution to maintain that control is to either shame men for opting for the ‘fantasy’ or to insert those controls into the fantasy that men are opting for, or preferably both.” @Rollo The shame wouldn’t stop most guys from doing it, it would just make them feel bad about it afterwards. Fuck, I wouldn’t be surprised if the shame involved creates a higher… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

starting to look like all this gaming/vr/porn stuff is a trap, intentional or not

Testosterone samples taken from winning and losing teams in the world of sports show winners have higher T. More interesting, the fans show the same pattern – winning boosts T, losing drops it. I’m sure dopamine levels move as well.

Computer gaming gives the illusion of winning some fight, just as porn gives the illusion of a virtual harem. Neither is actually happening, but the hindbrain doesn’t know that.

Dopamine hits are dopamine hits are dopamine hits.

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

@Xplat

Never mind the rest, give ME whatever sound advice you got to nailing women out of my “pre-approved” league.

Should I just read your articles one at a time, or do you have a recommended list of what I should read first, like Rollo?

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

Rollo Just your typing a response to me on this thread is an example of a virtual experience. Now expand that experience to something like Twitter where we get the likes of Anita Sarkesian being brought into the administrative fold in order to establish what is and isn’t an acceptable virtual experience according to the FI. Exactly. This reminds me of something I saw some years ago, I’ve told it various places. I was talking with a married man I knew at a coffee house, in the conversation he mentioned in passing an application on his laptop that stored every… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

Loyalty is a base drive that maintains the integrity and safety of the hunting pack and fireteam. It is a male bonding psychology. Women manipulate that base drive for their own benefit, which, so long as the MI is fully operative, benefits the greater tribe. The children do need to be produced and raised if extinction is to be avoided. In the extreme, however, in the absence of a fully operational MI, women will completely hijack and Stockholm Syndrome the shit out of it. If you are maintaining a marriage vow only because you made the vow and keeping it… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

@SJF, that has got to be the best relationship quote I’ve ever read. And it brings up something that’s been on my mind; how timeless and constantly rediscovered all this stuff is. For instance this “This means simply that you lead the relationship and continually give her tasks within the context of the relationship.” is something that was my “original” insight on my blog years ago. I put it as “always be giving commands”. Being able to maintain MLTRs, or to have discreet yet accepted or not too troublesome affairs is a SKILL. As the authors of that quote stated,… Read more »

SJB
Guest
SJB

@Rollo: I’m tracking what you are saying: technology is interrupting the exchange of vaginal access for goods plus services hence the need for the FI to attempt to assert control.

On the other hand, the comment from Reddit shows the inverse: the ideal man is unreal; a real man is undesirable.

Pity.

God is Laughing
Guest

I advise young people to abstain from social media. I advise them not to let their daughters watch “Frozen” and their wife’s not to listen to Focus on the Family. If they were to eat 3 pints of high quality ice cream per sitting I would advise against that. Do humans want to eat fat? Yes. Is it good for us to do and get everything we want? No. I look at this as less. of an issue concerning competing imperatives and more as an issue of self preservation. Just because a women does 50 pathological things before breakfast doesn’t… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“I can see where any number of traditional, conservative older men that I know would think that was just a grand idea to “protect women”, especially wives.”

Q.E.D.; and you would be hard pressed to find a better example of slave morality.

@Rollo: “kfg, already covered this”

And I figured there was a fair chance you would provide the link.

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“just as porn gives the illusion of a virtual harem” interesting. what I don’t understand is how modern men define harem. traditionally it meant a group of virgin women kept locked up for the warlord and only the warlord to fuck the porn being watched today has men in it too, doing the fucking. in junior high when I watched porn on vhs it was always “lesbian”. not a dude in sight. we all thought that was normal because why would you want to see some dude’s schlong when you could see more tits so if guys are watching other… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

@Yollo, most of the stuff that I write on my blog is about my personal experience in long term and multiple long term relationships, and is about maintaining and building passion from the woman. “Contemplative dominance for the modern man”. It’s half personal diary, and half contemplations about how relationships work, using my own life as the science lab. I don’t talk much about how to meet or seduce women. I’m not actually very good at that part. I mean, once I’m face to face on a date, things usually go well, but I’m not good at cold approach, and… Read more »

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“If they were to eat 3 pints of high quality ice cream per sitting I would advise against that.”

I eat one per sitting. gotta get to 5k calories somehow

“Do humans want to eat fat? Yes.”

hell yes. I drink shots of olive oil. mct oil in everything. walnuts. avocados. coconuts. ice cream.

can’t get big without T. can’t have T without fat.

press and eat and fuck. your woman should barely be able to keep up with you – in the kitchen and in bed

Joe_
Guest
Joe_

Rubbing one out once in a while is preferable to becoming a professional Landwhale Rider.

Bachelorocles
Guest
Bachelorocles

@SJF “Female Stages of Manipulation” Brilliant! When I first learned to detect female manipulation I was shocked how often they manipulate and how ingeniously good they are at it. It’s a pet theory of mine and a RP buddy that women in a LTR seek to wear a man down psychologically by interrupting his sleep, confusing him through poor logic, arguments over petty matters, making him insecure through jealousy, interrupting his deeper thoughts. If I’m watching a movie with a woman or reading a book close to her, she will interrupt my thoughts every five minutes. As Tony Sporano said… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“I eat one per sitting. gotta get to 5k calories somehow”

I knew our culture had crossed the Decadence Line of No Return when I first came across ads for zero calorie “food.”

My biggest problem with ice cream is that the sugar reduces the caloric density.

xsplat
Guest

Bachelorocles It’s a pet theory of mine and a RP buddy that women in a LTR seek to wear a man down psychologically by interrupting his sleep, confusing him through poor logic, arguments over petty matters, making him insecure through jealousy, interrupting his deeper thoughts. If I’m watching a movie with a woman or reading a book close to her, she will interrupt my thoughts every five minutes. What great examples. I had an “original” insight years back about this very thing. As far as I knew I’d never read it anywhere. The way I put it is that women… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

Oh, and of course there are countermeasures that can be learned to combat this.

It took me many years to build up an armoury of countermeasures.

When a girl interrupts me on the piano or while I’m typing, I get quite stern. Stern enough that they learn.

Basically I try to train women to shut the fuck up, most of the time.

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“My biggest problem with ice cream is that the sugar reduces the caloric density.” right on. the only sugar I get removed from the whole food matrix is in ice cream and maple syrup – I drink shots of that too. and since the ice cream sugar comes from grass (probably) I try to limit it overall even though it doesn’t contain wga gotta fill up the depleted muscle and liver glycogen somehow and when you work your ass off and have great insulin sensitivity it’s not a problem at all. insulin is anabolic as fuck. just have to learn… Read more »

qsajaq
Guest

Female porn VR = The mall.

YaReally
Guest

@SJF @Andy “But I am comfortable with it. It is simply “less messy” as described in that Tyler hour long video posted by YaReally.” To be clear: I have nothing against monogamy if that’s what you WANT to do. But most guys don’t WANT to do it, they just didn’t realize they, specifically THEM (VS rich good-looking people they see on TV etc), had another option BESIDES that route and they generally don’t have enough experience with it to realize that the idea of a harem arrangement or pLTR setup DOES appeal to them because they’ve been conditioned to believe… Read more »

Softek
Guest
Softek

@ fleezer “maybe the hindbrain doesn’t know only if a person has never actually fucked hot girls or beat another man senseless. once it has real life experience for comparison, porn and video games seem pretty silly.” Seems right to me. It’s a hell of a time trying to deal with life when you don’t have prior positive experiences to use as a reference. When you don’t know any better, and you feel like there’s nothing better for you out there in the real world, why bother? Men today need to take a leap of faith if they’re going to… Read more »

Lucien
Guest
Lucien

“Why are there no “yourbrainonporn” sites for women? Why are there no XXXChurch equivalents for the ladies? Why are there no support groups for women ‘addicted’ to romance novels or divorce porn movies? Because that exclusively male pathologizing is only beneficial to the female sexual strategy.” I must disagree. This is a weird tit-for-tat argument. YourBrainonPorn is not a feminist plot. How many women have you seen posting on that site, or on NoFap? This is a project by men. I think it’s sad that you’re objecting to this, because quitting porn and reducing masturbation is probably one of the… Read more »

God is Laughing
Guest

@Lucian,

That’s been my point. Porn is drug and a anesthetizes us to crap conditions. We’re like dying dogs lying in the crawlspace licking our wounds when we are on it.

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

@Rollo Xsplat has a point, Rollo. Though the way he slices it, if HE has a point, YOU have a point. So who of you two has an accurate map of the territory? Allow me to apply Occam’s Corkscrew. You BOTH are displaying accurate maps of the territory. But what levels are you both displaying? What regions are you both displaying in your respective data sets? I don’t doubt either of you are really seeing what you are seeing, but one of my recent insights into myself have told me that you can’t be experiencing everything in any other way… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky

Re: porn addiction This originally came up because YaReally suggested just having porn playing in the background etc. as a way for Softek to change his brains’ perception of sex as bad, shameful, or exceptional. Softek objected since he’s had issues with porn in the past. It’s already been noted that it’s all in the way you use it. To expand on that – I don’t think YaReally meant you should watch porn and use it to jack off and the usual song-and-dance. That practice takes you out of the ‘real world,’ is used as a self-soothing mechanism (and hence… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
Guest
Yollo Comanche

@YaReally

When I master “Kung Fu” I fully intend to use it to beat up on the “homeless” and put on paid performances for international “tourists”. Make of that what you will.

rugby11
Guest
rugby11
scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

Two points: 1. Read The Biology of Desire to understand how hitting any pleasure center via behavior is habit forming or “addictive”. You’ll see how the neurology re-arranges itself to make you want to keep doing it more and more and more. And also how one can reorganize their own neurology to move away from these habits. The entire meme of “addiction” is complete garbage, particularly the idea that it’s a disease of some sort. In fact, it’s likely this adaptive aspect of human neurology and behavior is why we are so productive and variegated and engaged in the world.… Read more »

Bachelorocles
Guest
Bachelorocles

@xsplat

“The way I put it is that women try to make you emotionally worn down in order that you lose the attractive spring in your step.”

Interesting insight.

I have good buddies, strong, successful men, seemingly alphas who are worn down. They want only peace at home. So they make the fatal step of purchasing peace with submission. This causes their women to lose respect and sexual interest for them.

I know two happily married men. They are both RP alphas.

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

Clarification: The power imbalance I cite above – women choose, men compete for this choice is always going to mean that women have the upper hand in general. Game really means winning their selection beyond what you’d get naturally, essentially hacking their selection processes. But even then, the PUA is doing the work – years of honing and reconditioning one’s behavior and mind. Women still have the upper hand in this matter. Even high value men have this experience, it’s so ingrained. My point? To chill about it. To stop clutching my pearls with every new realization about it. To… Read more »

YaReally
Guest

@Forge “I don’t think YaReally meant you should watch porn and use it to jack off and the usual song-and-dance.” “However, I think what YaReally had in mind was to just put porn on some screen around you and then do something else, like just don’t pay much attention to it. That way you get used to sex being something that’s just normal, hey I’m doing dishes and there’s her third orgasm, damn she’s loud. It demystifies it.” lol this. I tried to stress this but I don’t think that came across or people glossed over it. It’s simple logic:… Read more »

scray
Guest
scray

@forge “I used the dancefloor as a way of teaching myself some of this stuff when I started. It’s basically teaching you that being sexual/touching people you don’t know is fine. So long as you don’t associate that experience exclusively with dancefloors and carry it forward into other interactions, its a way of breaking the ice your brain has formed around instincts like ‘I feel like I should kiss her now.’” the ultimate thing you need to internalize is that most of the time, women are rejecting you based off your approach or how you’re coming off and that there’s… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

Ya…. I had this poster on my wall in college.

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/c_limit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_680/oopjoniqzcyeej9b6p5a.jpg

Thanks for the mental flashback dude.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

YaReally You can do VERY little to pick up a girl if you understand what’s going on. Scray if he tried ‘just this much’ he could up his lay count….and that knowledge makes him cool with getting rejected, because he knows that there’s nothing really wrong with him and that it’s his to lose. And these two points come together via going OUT and doing it. Scribblerg years of honing and reconditioning one’s behavior and mind There is so much material out there, and you can really spend a lifetime learning (like a Japanese noodle master), however to get pretty… Read more »

Shiva
Guest
Shiva

“MPORGs are a rudimentary example of the virtual experience I’m getting at here. ” Had you been 2 decades younger, you would have been twiddling your thumbs on an Xbox rather than a guitar in your 20s. And men 2 generations elder to you might have the juiciest opinion about rail thin 20 something boys wasting their youth stringing guitar rather than doing something useful with their lives. Playing these MPORGs half decently needs quite a lot of strategy, tactics and practice. At par with any physical sport out there minus the physical stamina. When these guys play in tournaments,… Read more »

scray
Guest
scray

@scribblerg “What? You don’t like being a dancing monkey? Too bad, you might as well try to avoid gravity while you are at it…” what you’re talking about isn’t like gravity tho. when women are in an environment where the burden on approaching is on them, they behave exactly like men and men become extremely ‘choosy.’ whether she will fuck you is tied to social norms and almost nothing else — they really ARE NOT that picky beyond that level. if a celebrity walks into the room, suddenly the super high value celebrity becomes way choosier than her….because social norms… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Ya – Re: Dancing Monkey – What I mean is that women choose and men compete for that choice. I totally get the distinction you made about giving value and yeah, the Dancing Monkey term is about putting on an act to get something out of a woman. Poor choice of words. In fact, the project I’m working right now (I seem to love long term gambits with women) has done a 180 cuz I got how my my “gaming” was just try-hard bullshit coming from a place of internalized low value.. I’m being more myself, letting myself come out… Read more »

Blaximus
Guest
Blaximus

@ scrib ” Again, guys, what is the purpose of this site? For you. In your life. Is it an end in and of itself? It may very well be for many men here. It’s tempting to keep pressing the “Rollo lever” and getting the Rational Male pellet by participating here. But like porn, it’s a declining sum game. Virtual indeed, and get that Rollo isn’t living some virtual existence. ” I had been talking to a great number of men about ” women and relationships/marriages “, And I was hearing horrifying tales and exclamations that I could not fully… Read more »

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

@scribblerg
I’ve gotten better at my burden of performance because each day i do something new hitting the gym and dance floor even singing and cooking many of my own meals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pUE7zJB704
As someone who has done my best to avoid the internet yet still get grasped by it. Its a process for me. Good point

Shiva
Guest
Shiva

“Resigning as MGTOW’s do has no effect, it’s merely making a virtue of quitting. Again, you guys are welcome to it. But no matter what, this power imbalance remains, and women will always press their advantages based on that power imbalance. What? You don’t like being a dancing monkey?” So much a contradiction and strawman. 1. In-essense you proclaim, the house always wins but still the gamblers gotta be the dancing monkey and keep playing. 2. Half a year back it dawned in me that its actually the society sold me the IOUs, women are what they are. The social… Read more »

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Scray

http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/gurus/img/mo/ff.jpg

Or David Berg…

YaReally
Guest

Holy shit I forgot that would actually just post the pic right in the thread lol Throw a space in that URL somewhere Rollo! Sorry everyone lol @scray @forge “how you do and the difference in how do you at your worst is probably just as eye-opening as the cool shit you do at your best” Ya Tyler Julien etc actively encourage guys to go out when they’re feeling shitty and try doing the absolute minimum amount of game possible and purposely fuck things up to see how little they can do and how much they can get away with… Read more »

Shiva
Guest
Shiva

nice image to the article BTW, would suit the topic of burden of performance.

“TRM for me is not on par with porn. It is about learning and hearing other men’s views in an environment free of feminine interference and overt fuckery. Practically every commenter here over years has added some measure of knowledge for me on a routinely regular basis. I dig that shit more than I can say.”

As long as TRM comments section is a place where people who know something post often, people who want to learn will flock here.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Scray

http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/gurus/img/mo/ff.jpg

Or David Berg…

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