Ghosts in the Machine

ghosts_inthe_machine

Hollenhund had an interesting response to a question posed in last week’s post that I thought I might come back to here:

1) Why is there “yourbrainonporn” for men, and not “yourbrainonyourdildocollection” for women? “yourbrainoneroticnovels” “yourbrainon50shadesofgray” “yourbrainonTwilight” “yourbrainonhavingtoomanyorbiters” “yourbrainongettingtoomanymessagesinyourinboxonokcupid”? MEN are the ones that it’s a “problem” if they want variety. MEN are the ones that have to change. MEN are the ones that have to fight their biology. hmmm…I wonder why THAT is. Maybe to help create more Softeks, where the girl can cheat on her boyfriend with him and then shame him for looking at another girl

I doubt their goal is that specific. This new narrative about porn addiction being a public health problem is obviously seen by its supporters as yet further ground for political consensus between feminists and social conservatives. It’s not that feminists want to turn the porn industry, or what remains of it, into a political target again, it’s that they need a narrative that is aligned with the Feminine Imperative and moves public discourse about the mating market away from subjects they, and women in general, are very uncomfortable with.

As long as the mainstream media pushes this narrative about young men getting addicted to online porn and thus opting out of the mating market, it will largely stifle any public discourse about the popularity of female emotional porn (romantic literature), and also the real potential causes of widespread porn use, like the drop in average female quality on the mating market and unrestrained hypergamy. Social conservatives, feminists, and the majority of common folk will, of course, be happy to put all blame on men for any social problem, real or not. And it’s very obvious that porn addiction isn’t a problem they want to actually do anything about, it’s more like an excuse for women to whine and moan. Frankly I’m very skeptical about the whole issue of porn addiction, because if something just happens to perfectly fit into the Feminine Imperative, it’s probably no accident. And one wonders how much scientific evidence there actually is for it.

I’ve addressed the physiological and social associations of male masturbation in the past in The Pheromonal Beta, as well as Pathologizing the Male Sexual Response. The “lively” discussion about male masturbation in this week’s comments notwithstanding, the topic du jour in the Twittershpere also seemed to coincide with this topic.

Personally, I think the ‘moral’ dictates about jerking off follows evolutionarily pragmatic reasons for male shame in masturbation while female masturbation is an arousal cue and seen as a positive. Female masturbation is a cue for sexual availability while male masturbation is essentially a Beta Tell.

That’s the nuts and bolts of it from the bio-evolutionary perspective, but as with all other inherently male thumbscrews, the Feminine Imperative has long exploited the sociological implications of men’s need for sex. One thing that slips by relatively unnoticed with social conventions that serve the Feminine Imperative is that the same presumptions that would serve a masculine (in this case sexual) imperative are always shamed or stereotyped – that is until they come into a context that is  useful to the feminine.

Sex Sells What?

“Sex sells” is a cliché that can be used in the positive for women, but it is always a negative for men. For women, sold sex in advertising, romantic literature, the meteoric popularity of ‘divorce porn’ for married  women, or really any media that stimulates women’s sexual interests is always seen as positive, empowering and exceptional. Even if what their being sold is seedy or can have a potentially negative consequence, in a feminine-primary social order women ‘own’ sex from today’s social perspective. In other words, society at large is expected to defer to women on issues of sex and, by association, romance, love, etc.

Women can still be sold  something or induced to buy a product or to adopt a mindset, but that article or the message that’s meant to be internalized is associated with the ‘positive’ of a sexual inference with women.

For men, male sexuality is always a negative association unless that sexuality is expressed in a way that complements women’s sexual strategy. Something being sold via sex to men is either seen as preying upon an inherent weakness (or dependency) for sex or it’s paired with ridicule for men being typical ‘pigs’ and they’re unable to dissociate sex from the objectification of women. So ingrained is this shame-association that men have adapted sexual competition strategies around it in order to identify better with women in the hopes they will be perceived as “not like other, typical, sex hungry men” and that their intimate interests are motivated by something more ephemeral that sex.

The social utility of this shame-association, of course, parallels the utility of Male Catch 22 for the Feminine Imperative, but there’s a useful  duplicity for women in this inescapable shame of male sexuality. For instance, when women seek to convince both themselves and men that fat-acceptance and “changing the standards of beauty” should be men’s metric for wanting to fuck and pair with less desirable women, we see the usefulness of that duplicity. Men are useful in the perception that they’re sexually uncontrollable pigs for being so gullible as to allow “society” and advertising agency to define what they think is arousing.  However, the Feminine Imperative will readily use (or attempt to use) that same weakness  to exploit men into acting against their own, evolved, sexual best interests by selling them the ideal of accepting fat women as a new standard of beauty.

There are no feminine parallels for the pathologizing of the female sex response because those would simply be hindrances to women optimizing their Hypergamous imperatives. Why are there no “yourbrainonporn” sites for women? Why are there no XXXChurch equivalents for the ladies? Why are there no support groups for women ‘addicted’ to romance novels or divorce porn movies? Because that exclusively male pathologizing is only beneficial to the female sexual strategy.

This is the depth of control that the female-primary imperative seeks over men – that our most base biological, existential need should be distorted and psychologically molded by shame to the point of instilling lifelong neurosis and conditioning fear-based gender self-loathing to effect women’s sexual strategy above all other considerations.

I’ll quote the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies once more here: for one sex’s strategy to succeed the other’s must either be compromised or abandoned. Whether subtly instilled or publicly shame-conditioned, associating men’s sexuality with sickness or perversion, weakness, and disability, the underlying purpose is an effort in convincing men to abandon any claim to their own sexual imperative in favor of that of women’s.

Slut Shaming

If this seems like a sea change from the old order days when women were shamed for even the hint of promiscuity while men were lauded for their own sexual exploits, what you’re seeing is the societal shift to feminine social primacy. There was a time when sexual indiscretion was something that shamed women. Today, it’s almost laughable that there should be a need for a social convention like “slut shaming”. There is no such social referencing, but if men on whole can be put to shame for the belief that other men might still cling to older order reservations about women’s sexual exploits it serves to place women’s sexual strategy above that of men’s.

There is always the old standby – the horrible “double standard” about men banging a lot of women being heroes while women who bang a lot of men are sluts (“it sooooo unfair!”). This is a laughable, antique social convention in an era of slut walks and female-centric birth control, but it’s still the reflexive go-to trope when the mechanics of pathologizing men’s sexuality comes to light.

Sex-positive feminism has always been a two-edged sword for women. That positivity ‘fempowers’ women so long as they cling to the old order missives about the Patriarchy repressing that sexuality while it simultaneously disqualifies their complaints of it as Hypergamy becomes more and more openly embraced.

Ghosts in the Machine

Hollenhund continues for us:

YaReally and hoellenhund, you’re talking about all this VR porn stuff but isn’t this basically the same dynamic as prostitution? Same kind of alternative sexual relief (that is not your wife) and same reason why the FI shames prostitutes and men who use prostitutes etc..because they lower the “price” of sexual release..?

YeReally has already answered your question well, I’d say. He brought VR porn up, I didn’t, because I was observing the current situation, not something that only exists today as a potential future development.

I’d add that the dynamic is somewhat different. Apparently the state is willing to penalize prostitution, at least to a degree that makes it sufficiently risky and expensive for many men to avoid it, and the majority of women and their male bootlickers are willing to support political efforts to suppress it. Neither of that applies to pornography of any sort. Women will complain about it, they will support a narrative that portrays it specifically as a problem caused by men, but it’s not like anyone actually wants to make an effort to do something about it. Do you think any woman wants to date, or have sex with, a reformed porn addict? Do you think women want porn addicts to get out of the basement, get their shit together, and hit on women in order to get real-life sex?

For the record, I’m not going to deny that excessive masturbation is unhealthy, or that excessive porn use can elicit unrealistic expectations of sex in a mind of an inexperienced man. Anything should be done in moderation, that goes without saying. But the current public discourse on porn and its effects is complete BS.

I’ve forgotten where I saw the quote posted, so I’ll paraphrase it a bit (I think it may have been Illimitable Man), but there’s a new concept I read about how human beings’ experience of consciousness is now assuming a new, third, aspect – the immediate, the internal and now, the virtual.

The immediate experience is one in which you directly relate with people in real time. It’s you physically and vocally interacting with others. The internal is the conversations you have with yourself and both your conscious and subconscious interpretation of what you’re experiencing, learning, behaving, etc. (i.e. what you’re thinking).

However, the virtual (or digital) aspect of consciousness is something humans have only recently developed and are now on the cutting edge of really understanding. The virtual experience is what I’m doing now as I type this post. I’m relating to you what’s going on in my thought process (to the degree of which I’m aware of it) in a virtual medium. Virtual porn, virtual games, virtual shopping, etc., really anything you do in a digital realm is part of this new form of ‘being’.

Humans in 2016 experience things in ways that our forebearers could scarcely dream of. Our immediate and internal experiences are now being informed by out virtual experiences – in accelerated ways that I don’t think most people really appreciate. The Feminine Imperative is now fighting to establish a foothold in this virtual experience. Thus, we see efforts like GamerGate meant to lock down a control over how men will be allowed to experience this virtual reality. We also see the preliminary efforts to both socially and legislatively institute feminine-primary controls over yet to be developed possibilities of virtual experiences.

Jerking off to ubiquitous, free, online porn is one such experience that the Feminine Imperative has had to play catch-up to with regard to restricting men’s access to it. And thus, we get contingent social controls from the imperative to counter this lack. It’s not enough that men be shamed for their sexual response to online porn. The accessibility makes this impractical, but there’s really no ‘sales’ transaction for which men would feel their sexual “weakness” being exploited.

However, the counter to this then becomes making men’s sexuality itself a disease. “Porn Addiction”, sex addiction, in a religious context even ‘impure thoughts’ become a disease not to be cured, but to be managed by women – women’s definitions, women’s approvals and disapprovals, women’s sexual strategy interests.

And porn is just the tip of the iceberg with regard to the Feminine Imperative’s controls of men’s virtual experiences with women.

519 comments

  1. Ouch. Ouch. Fucking Ouch,

    The original post picture. Illustrates the OP too well. Oh well.
    I rarely can opine on the original post because it is too real, too important.
    Too ouchy.

    Beyond great quality writing, Thanks.

  2. Politics is downstream from culture. – Andrew Breitbart

    As invested in the concept of RP as I am, and as much as I like and respect TRM and Rollo, one sometimes has a reflexive rejection to the term Feminine Imperative, because it seems too pat, too conspiratorial, too easy an answer. Is there really some sort of cabal that exists and operates, pushing these agendas?

    Of course, we can then argue that being literally woven into their DNA, it is a subconscious routine running in women’s that can and does manifest itself just like trees bud and then drop leaves depending on the season. Their is little ‘intention’ to it…it just is.

    But then, add to that the possibility that certain ideologies, having understood the natural inclinations of human beings, their basis Bios as it were, including FI, have used that to push certain agendas, and it then seems even more plausible that there is a combination of the two.

    But then, one doesn’t have to claim to know all the in’s and out’s of how it works to see the patterns form and understand they tend to all tilt toward certain directions.

    The Feminine Imperative is now fighting to establish a foothold in this virtual experience. Thus, we see efforts like GamerGate meant to lock down a control over how men will be allowed to experience this virtual reality. We also see the preliminary efforts to both socially and legislatively institute feminine-primary controls over yet to be developed possibilities of virtual experiences.

    It’s amazing how, even being immersed in the concepts for a long while, you gain sudden insights into them; i.e., they click more firmly into place.

    Reading the above, I immediately think of this:

    Two women, Saarkesian and Quinn, who in another era would have literally been nobodies, speaking at the UN, giving their opinions on controlling the content everyone else is able to see and share on both the internet and video games, the two BIGGEST distributers of popular culture on the planet.

    I then suddenly understand more fully the attempt to flagellate the video game industry for, among other things, it’s “depictions of the female” form, which tend toward the most naturally desirous of men, sans feminist re-education. Those simply won’t do, because A) not all women can live up to those standards, B) they shouldn’t have to try and instead should be accepted for “who they are”:

    Ugh.

    Whether intentional or not, they, like so many others, are attempting to control the content of the stream at it’s source, and thus influence the larger body politic.

  3. Here is an example, I suspect, of the Feminine Imperative ALREADY trying to lock down Virtual Reality sex. A few years ago a company called “RealTouch” invented a “virtual sex” machine. I read the reviews. After trying it, a gay guy said pussy feels better than gay sex. (but he would stay gay). A reporter in a relationship used very guarded language, talking about how “intense” the experience was. He all but said it was the best sex he’s ever had. And other reviews like that.

    Now, at the moment, most online reviews say the “FleshLight” feels “almost” like a real vagina. Men buy and use them. But they don’t quite live up to real live sex. The RealTouch gave men more than just realistic sex. They let men feel what sex with eager, willing, and skilled porn stars was like. In other words, the quality of the product way overshot the bar.

    RealTouch is out of business. Behind the scenes it was done by patents and licenses being yanked. And they were yanked just as word was spreading and millions of orders were coming in. You can’t buy RealTouch today. Isn’t available. They have a large catalog of sex sessions with porn stars. And you can’t access it.

    The feminine imperative will never allow VR sex to approximate or exceed the “real deal”. The claws are out. RealTouch shows how it plays out. Basement dwelling nerds must NEVER know what they are missing. In fact, ordinary men must NEVER know what they are missing. That would change EVERYTHING. Men might start demanding their birthright. Enthusiastic and willing sex from a committed partner.

  4. This reminds me of the 18th and 19th century hysterics over people reading too much when books started to become readily available. The Germans even had words like “lesensucht” (reading addiction) and “Lesewut” (reading madness). In those days, it was pointed out that women spent too much time reading romantic novels, drawing them away from more useful or constructive activities. The issue was eventually dropped and this addiction to “virtual reality” romance still exists today. I don’t think the female need to control and the male willingness to accept blame or guilt will allow this one to die a natural death, since the guilty party is men.

  5. This is kind of on time with Prince’s death. There’s been talk and articles going around about how Prince respected women so much. One article even came up with the point that it’s one of the things that she wanted her son to learn from Prince. Many are motivated by how often Prince would have female groups that he was behind creating or musicians in his band. He even supposedly had an all female team of lawyers.
    News anchor Tamron Hall came out with how close friends she was with him and said that she would often send pictures of herself to him so he could advise her on her outfits.
    I’m sure the women were all aware that any of the groups or solo acts and the musicians in his band were all highly sexualized regardless of their talent or capabilities but it’s not something they want to admit to.
    And a news anchor having a pop star with the sexualized persona that Prince used tell them what and what not to wear fits right into a Christian Grey type fantasy.
    So I’m not surprised that Prince would have a team of all female lawyers. He’d never have to worry one second about due diligence.

  6. Also, burden of performance. No shame tactics, tropes, or memes for any of female masturbation, porn addictions, sex sells, etc…
    Women can always fall back on “well if I could find a man that could…”
    Things tie together like they always do.

  7. In the comments on the last post, some married men took offence at my declaration that deep down all men want some sexual variety, and that the only reason that married men didn’t pursue young strange is because of not knowing how to.

    I’ll admit right now I could be wrong about this presumption. But I’m going to explain why I have it.

    I think sour grapes is a gigantic drive in how the brain works. Why have unrealistic expectations? That can only lead to pain. Want is a painful emotion, and there is much life satisfaction to be gained by accepting things as they are. And yet realistic ambitions are what lead to positive improvements. So our brain is wired to strike a balance between ambition and denying the value of ambitions we can not realistically reach.

    Sour grapes is wired right into how we think. We do not allow ourselves to value valuable things, if we think we can’t get those things. “I didn’t want those grapes anyway”, is not just something stupid people say. It’s the human condition.

    But the thing is, women work in collusion to hypnotize men into believing that their realistic options are much smaller than they really are. They work extremely hard to make men think that they will break up with them if they are not monogamous. That young women will not date them if they are old.

    And men internalize these female cultural messages as if they were their own thoughts. They internalize that it is abnormal for older men to go after younger girls, and that younger girls would not be physically attracted anyway, and that there would be a high price to pay in their own marriage if they tried. They arrange the story such that they didn’t want those grapes anyway.

    Some married men have so internalized their own cage, that even imagining being in a non-fenced relationship conjures up all sorts of crazy fantasies about how fucked up and horrible that would be.

    On the blog comments I heard from older married men that in order to remain interested in dating several young women, and older man would need to be:
    1) hormonally imbalanced
    2) experiencing an identity crisis
    3) have fucked up life priorities
    4) have impractical hopes and expectations
    5) be into that for the purpose of bragging

    You don’t hear most men say the rational and realistic thing: Yes, that would actually be pretty cool to have flings with young women who turn me on and are into me, but I choose not to after weighing up the balances of pros and cons. That would come at too high a cost to me personally, even though I could see it would be enjoyable.

    Instead you see people who have internalized their own cage fighting to protect that cage.

    Now it may actually be the case that some men truly have no desire to have sex with young attractive women.

    I personally don’t believe it’s true. I’ve heard many men claim this is true for them, and I deny that they are accurately self reporting their own emotions. I could be wrong, but I explained my reasons for this belief.

  8. I’m also going to amend my original claim. The reason married men don’t pursue young women is because they don’t know how to *without too much damage to the rest of their life*. So there are two separate and overlapping reasons; 1) they may see young women as out of reach, and 2) they don’t have the multiple long term relationship skills to be able to manage more than one relationship, especially with their current wife. It can be one, the other, or both.

  9. This hypocrisy reminds me of an incident I saw on TV a few years ago. The mixed doubles final at Wimbledon. During the presentation ceremony for thw winners, the crowd got excited as did the interviewer. There was all sorts of innuendo as they all guessed that the girl was into the guy. The girl encouraged this, she was all coy and giggly.

    So why did this get under my skin? The girl was ugly and the man was handsome. My instinct was telling me that everyone in that stadium was completely ignoring the man and his wants. Now more red pill, I see why it bothered me- reverse the roles and NOTHING. Anna Kournikova partners an ugly guy and wins. Everybody can see the guy is into her. Is there any way the interviewere, msm or crowd wod get so excited with innuendo on behalf of the male partner? NO PHOKIN WAY!!!

  10. I see and I hear of too many men not “owning” it when it comes to these accusations of too much porn or sexual desires as a man. That, to me, is the real problem because once you own it there is no where else to go.

    Men need to realize that women are large children so if a child walked up to you and said such nonsense (shaming) then you would laugh, right? The same should be applied to women (and society as a whole for trying to shame men).

    Another argument or response (just for giggles) is to watch a woman’s face when you bring up the book Fifty Shades of Grey as a counter to her porn argument and attempted shaming. All of those books sold (to women), the movie (mostly seen by women) and they are trying to come at you with shaming of porn? Yeah, it’s that laughable.

    Your best and first to response to anything that a woman says should be a laugh because it is like arguing with a child. No facts, no real stats used….it’s just “cause”…like with children.

  11. Porn and the objectification of women has been shamed for the longest time. Once you realise shame is an artificial construct meant to make you obey to the social narrative, you reject it as much as everything else.

    This one thing that MGTOW’s definitely got going for them. They do not deny they have carnal desires, they just don’t suppose they need to get them met from real girls out there. Some do but not all. The price of pussy has plummeted and if I am being honest, these are desperate attempts from society to keep it artificially high.

    Watch this bitch complaining about the nature of the game. Things have turned this way, because the way she dreams about does not work.

  12. When I get horny, I pull up some porn on my laptop, jerk off, and I’m done.
    A lot cheaper than a hooker, or having to pay for dinner and listen to a female talk crap for a few hours.
    Works for me.

  13. They have a language used to depict and shame men who refuse rationally and for solid reasons to sacrifice themselves in service of her biology.

    Immature, fear of commitment, refuses to grow up, and Peter Pan Syndrome mean a male unwilling to work a soul crushing job to support her brood and unwilling to enter into a child support-alimony-prostitution contract with her.

    Mature = a male willing to sacrifice in service of her biology and enter into a draconian child support-alimony-prostitution contract.

  14. Even though most of the shaming and such is indeed FI in play, I would defend there is some merit to avoid raising your own hedonic treadmill
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

    It seems to me conceivable that masturbating too much with a strong grip or watching too much of the more extreme types of pornography will indeed desensitize you to less extreme experiences in “real life”.

    Of course, while “yourbrainonporn” is discussed more or less mainstream, phenomena like women getting “Alpha widowed” isn’t. Which is part of the point that Hoellenhund was getting at in his post.

  15. @IAS I’ve just invented the flogaloggripometer. Lets me know when I’m gripping the Johnson too tightly.
    Maybe I should patent it and try make some money?

  16. “The reason married men don’t pursue young women is because they don’t know how to *without too much damage to the rest of their life*. So there are two separate and overlapping reasons; 1) they may see young women as out of reach, and 2) they don’t have the multiple long term relationship skills to be able to manage more than one relationship, especially with their current wife. It can be one, the other, or both.”

    @xsplat

    +1

  17. @xsplat: A counter-hypothesis which you may not have considered: if I recall you have not had children: a man’s time is consumed with children—providing, teaching, leading – for 20 or more years. When all the children fly to their own roosts the man says “Well and good. I’m going fishing.”

  18. “This is the depth of control that the female-primary imperative seeks over men – that our most base biological, existential need should be distorted and psychologically molded by shame to the point of instilling lifelong neurosis and conditioning fear-based gender self-loathing to effect women’s sexual strategy above all other considerations.”

    A good deal of my trauma with my direct kin came from this.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8ChCNOb70CMV05pIHFEHkw
    Two pair bonding porn stars?

    Than you have this

    Fabian thyman and manwin (porn empire) all tube sites and most pay sites except one.

  19. This is interesting. What I’m thinking is that actually, within the Christian world that I live in there is equal weight in terms of seriousness/shame in for female porn addiction/masturbation. There is actually a hotline run by a local Christian woman for girls who feel tempted to masturbated! Any female can call and she’ll personally talk them down.

    And there are XXXChurch products for women. I’ve used them.

    But.. according to your theory here this could still be a form of punishing or suppressing male sexuality.. because porn addiction in a woman is definitely an issue of masculinization in some way. Most female brains don’t “consume” visual stimuli in that way.

    Or at least, like you’re saying it’s only male sexuality that is considered problematic, and there are no programs or service announcements about hypergamy.

    (There actually is a 12 step program for especially hypergamous women. It’s not called Hypergamy Anonymous, but that’s essentially what it is. This organization expressly wants to avoid public scrutiny so out of respect for them I won’t share the name, but it is a nationwide 12 step program)

    How awesome would it be if there was a ‘This is Your Brain on Hypergamy’ website? I think it would be just as do-able scientifically speaking (maybe) and just as helpful. Or ‘This is Your Brain on Romance Novels’. Ha.

  20. @xsplat

    May 2nd, 2016 at 12:56 am

    How bout you just stop lecturing, here?

    Cause it feels like nails on a chalkboard. And not because some of us are un-comfortable in our circumstances despite your hectoring that we are.

  21. @Rollo: While I don’t disagree with your article I think it misses woman appropriating male virtue admonishment. That is, men are creative and that creativity can be dissipated or harnessed. So older males attempted, in the past, to help younger males come into balance. I.e. the teaching of virtue ethics via example and minor lecture.

    On the contrary women are not at all creative compared to males. They have nothing to harness. At best they mimic older male admonishment toward younger males. At worst, as you discussed, they participate in male shaming because it fills the emptiness of their envy.

    Finally, the “virtual” part of your article is a stretch: theater has been, from its genesis in the Greek dark age, always presented a fiction (regardless of the actor’s intent). “Real life” is not necessarily staged but unfolds moment to moment. Likewise, blog posts and blog comments build on interaction. It may be prudent to consider your sensory inputs as observing staged or non-staged events and persons. That will influence your self-talk.

  22. The FI only has two ways to gain leverage. Money or legislation. I think that the FI is frustrated that they can’t get a foothold into video games and virtual spaces because they actually think that the reason they have an influence in TV, print media other consumer driven media is out of some sort of moral high ground. When in reality the only reason they have influence in consumer driven media is that there is a financial interest in appeasing women. There’s absolutely zero financial interest in catering to the FI in video games or online porn. Follow the money.

    They only way they would be able to control virtual space would be through legislation in which they would have to have a weird alliance with social conservatives… I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened. It would hilarious to watch. haha.

  23. “In the comments on the last post, some married men took offence at my declaration that deep down all men want some sexual variety, and that the only reason that married men didn’t pursue young strange is because of not knowing how to.”

    Yeah it’s really weird that anyone might take offence when you suggest that all men lack all personal agency, have no loyalty, and their base natures can’t possibly be restrained if they have any other options.

  24. It is interesting that the vibrator has always been heralded… perhaps not openly for sex initially, but now it is undeniably promoted as a standard, ehem, “fixture” of the modern lady’s life.

  25. @Ned ” and their base natures can’t possibly be restrained if they have any other options.”

    This kind of idea is outside of my frame of reference.

    Why you want to restrain your base (sexual) nature?

    Why not harness it instead?

    I fail to see how there is any negative to our base sexual natures.

    If you have negatives to your base sexual nature, it’s because you’ve chosen a life where other people don’t want you to be sexual, and you have given them power over you.

    It isn’t because your base sexual nature is actual bad in any way.

  26. @Xsplat
    “I’m also going to amend my original claim. The reason married men don’t pursue young women is because they don’t know how to *without too much damage to the rest of their life*. So there are two separate and overlapping reasons; 1) they may see young women as out of reach, and 2) they don’t have the multiple long term relationship skills to be able to manage more than one relationship, especially with their current wife. It can be one, the other, or both.”

    Your statements are too general. Posting retarded statements like this neglect the fact that .

    1) Some married men have the “integrity” to stick to the commitment they made to be monogamous
    2) Nvm …. Your basically Troll baiting.

  27. @Xplat

    I don’t carry doubt or lack self-awareness of what you wrote last night in the other essay thread. It is just that you are pressing too hard to tell others their business.

    Said better by Deida in The Way of the Superior Man. (yes it is too new-agey, but….)

    You Will Often Want More Than One Woman

    Any man with a masculine sexual essence will desire sexual variety. Even if he loves his intimate partner and is completely committed to her, he will naturally want sexual occasions with other women besides his chosen intimate partner. How a man deals with his desire for other women is up to him. He should know, however, that there is no way to avoid such desires. He should also know that acting on such desires, though temporarily enlivening and exhilarating, often ends up complicating his life far more than the occasion itself is worth.

    Even if you are totally committed to your intimate partner in love, you probably think about having sex with other women. Even if you are totally fulfilled by the sex you share with your woman, you probably still desire sex with other women. Your desire for other women is not a reflection of any lack in your intimacy, it is a reflection of your nature as a masculine sexual being.

    But this desire is not an excuse for promiscuity, any more than your enjoyment of TV is an excuse for becoming an obese couch potato. Desire springs from many sources, such as your addictions, your biological heritage, your childhood conditioning, and your open heart. To live a life of impeccable integrity, you must discriminate the source of your desire, so you know when to discipline your behavior for everyone’s benefit, including yours.

    The fact is you probably want to have sex with other women besides your intimate partner; how you respond to this fact is a reflection of your purpose in life. If your purpose is to enjoy physical pleasure no matter the consequences, then you should screw as many women as you want. If your purpose is to be a nice boy and please “mommy,” then you should do what makes your woman happy. If your purpose is to liberate yourself and others into love and freedom, then you should do whatever magnifies the love and freedom in your life and in the lives of those whom your actions affect.

    It’s your call. Just remember that self-discipline is not self-suppression. Suppression is when you resist and fight against your desires, keeping them as buried and unexpressed as possible. Self discipline is when your highest desires rule your lesser desires, not through resistance, but through loving action grounded in understanding and compassion.

    How many women you have sex with is your business. Before you consider more than one, however, it is best to prove your capacity with one. If you can’t handle one—if deep communion, rejuvenating passion, and spiritual happiness are not the main features of your present intimacy—then you have not passed the test, and it is best to discipline your desire for other partners, since nobody is likely to be served.

    And yes, of course, motive and opportunity play a role. I’m sure you want to dictate for others which takes more primacy and how a man lives his life by his own choice.

    Give it a rest.

  28. “However, the counter to this then becomes making men’s sexuality itself a disease. “Porn Addiction”, sex addiction, in a religious context even ‘impure thoughts’ become a disease not to be cured, but to be managed by women – women’s definitions, women’s approvals and disapprovals, women’s sexual strategy interests.”

    It’s an interesting detail that this is a disease to be managed rather than cured. A lot of the greatest cons work like this; for example, in Scientology, they tell you there are things wrong with you that they have the solution – if you pay them progressively more money. It doesn’t ever get ‘cured.’

    One method the FI uses is to continuously move the goalpost so that you can never obtain the objective of truly gaining woman’s approval. Another one is to sell a preponderantly masculine ‘disease’ which has no cure – but which can be managed by listening very carefully to women.

  29. @SJF. Great quote.

    No, I don’t want to dictate to others what to do with their life. I’m describing reality as I see it, not proscribing one. The quote you gave was more prescriptive than I am.

    @Mersonia “1) Some married men have the “integrity” to stick to the commitment they made to be monogamous”

    Yes, they do. That’s not something that I have in my value system. I have great doubts about the value of such “integrity”.

    My main integrity is to be happy and fulfilled and enrich the lives of those around me. If marriage eventually gets in the way of that, then I would have intengrity first and foremost the most important principles of life.

    Not to some promise I made when things were different.

    Things change.

    Promises regarding marriage are, in my view, reality denying. Reality changes, and you can’t promise that it won’t. Any reality denying promise has no integrity to begin with.

    I like the gypsy marriage vow I heard of. “I promise to be with you as long as it makes us both happy”.

  30. Scientology, they tell you there are things wrong with you that they have the solution – if you pay them progressively more money. It doesn’t ever get ‘cured.’

    They got this from pharma no doubt.

  31. I just don’t see how loyalty isn’t an implement of the FI… Integrity… to whose morals? The FI? I really don’t care either way, but it’s just like… what are you getting from monogamy that I’m not?

    Deida says: “But this desire is not an excuse for promiscuity, any more than your enjoyment of TV is an excuse for becoming an obese couch potato.”

    Ehhh, seems to me like Deida has some lingering FI programming in there. Just because you write a good book doesn’t make you some sort of infallible God.

  32. Andy
    They only way they would be able to control virtual space would be through legislation in which they would have to have a weird alliance with social conservatives… I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened. It would hilarious to watch. haha.

    Already happened back in the 90’s when the “Violence Against Women Act” was jammed into law. Feminists, tradcons, socons, all got on the bandwagon. That law is what made false accusations of DV both potent and without risk. It’s one of the things that makes marriage more dangerous for men.

    Porn, like any other audio/video, is just a stream of bits. Much more difficult to control than actual human beings with a job.

    There’s a clear and obvious control issue with regard to porn; it’s all about controlling male sexuality. Married women who weaponize sex in order to better manipulate and control their husbands are naturally going to be aghast at male oriented porn because it might provide some relief for whats-his-name outside of her presence, and that can’t be allowed.

    It just occurred to me that the combination of increased sexualization of advertising and increased betaization of men amounts to a society – wide game of “cock teasing”. So logically there needs to be a society-wide control of porn, in order that men have no outlet other than an FI approved one.

  33. “Jerking off to ubiquitous, free, online porn”

    why is it free?

    why does a person/group give away their produce for free?

    who owns/operates these websites?

    what do the owners/operaters want to achieve?

    my default position on “do you want a free sample?” is, NO!

    real live pussy is the only free thing worth taking, but never when it’s advertised as such

    it’s not a ghost in the machine. it’s a slow-acting poison

    orgasm leads to prolactin release. everything has a cost

  34. @Sentient

    Gotta sell a problem before you can sell a solution. ‘Something’s wrong with you and I have the solution’ is the basis of every con, and nearly every sale, ever performed.

    But at least Pharma started out with some pretty damn good innovations.

    Turns out there’s only so many highly-beneficial single chemical agents out there, though, so now that they’re scraping the bottom of the biochemical barrel they have to get rather creative in how they keep the pharmacological modality solvent.

    Damn, I’m off-topic already.

    @pua haters – I got FR’s but I’ll keep ’em off the front page ’cause I love you so much ❤

  35. Not disagreeing with what you said Xplat, just how you said it.

    Yeah, prescriptive advice is lacking. This is the best cut and paste that I have ever had the privilege of plagiarizing.

    Keep these points in mind when you realize how not to be betatized in LTR game is to keep yourself as a single man would operate.

    From:
    http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Female-Psychology-Man-ebook/dp/B00RR6RNO6/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

    Female Stages of Manipulation

    We believe that manipulation is an instinctual behavior deeply rooted within female biology. Manipulation is also a learned behavior, due to one’s need for survival. From a biological point of view there is not too much of a difference between biologically-rooted and learned behavior. In fact, from the point of view of both modem neurobiology and evolutionary psychology, behaviors repeated and learned over time become deeply rooted in the neurological patterns within the brain, to the point where the behavior becomes largely unconscious. As individuals are prone to choose behaviors which support survival, manipulation has certainly been selected as a desirable survival skill.

    Manipulation can be defined as the attempt to influence another person’s mind to achieve a certain outcome. Manipulation is very often seen as a negative thing. We, however, are not judgmental about manipulation, and actually consider it a positive feature, which has been designed to keep life continuing on this planet.

    In order to best manage relationships with women, the Modern Man should understand that there are various stages of manipulation that a woman will go through during the course of a relationship with a man.

    On the biological level, the female of our species is programmed to:

    1. Elicit a strong sexual attraction in one or more strong males.
    2. Feel a strong sexual attraction for such males.
    3. Become impregnated by her choice of male.
    4. Have a male to provide materially for both her and her infant child.
    5. Afterwards, she will subconsciously tend to operate in such a way so as to have her sexual attraction for that male decrease.
    6. Wash, rinse, repeat: she will tend to have more sexual intercourse and more children with other strong males.

    We call this process betaization, where the strong, alpha male is rendered beta — which means “secondary” or “subservient” — within the relationship, over a period of time. Quite often, this process occurs gradually and almost imperceptibly to both parties.

    Manipulation is widely used by women to achieve:

    • Safety and comfort for her and her children, with their survival being the primary purpose.

    • To thereby influence the man’s mind in such a way that he will feel compelled to protect her and her children, especially before pregnancy, during the pregnancy and throughout the children’s early developmental years.

    Female manipulation can be either creative or destructive, depending on the desired outcome. From the point of view of the man, female manipulation can be considered “good” when it supports life and the man’s interests and “bad” when it destroys life and/or damages the man’s interests.

    Succinctly, the more manipulation is used by a woman, the more it becomes natural and unconscious to her. It is like learning to play a musical instrument: at first it is difficult and one needs to pay conscious attention to each note being played, Then, as mastery is gradually achieved, manipulation becomes more and more unconscious.

    Behaviors are slow to develop and also slow to be unlearned. In the modem woman of the industrialized countries, the way instincts are expressed has changed slightly with time, due to less-demanding survival conditions. However, the influence of the female’s primal instincts on her behavior remains evident.

    It is important for you to learn to recognize manipulation. In fact for a woman’s sexuality to be satisfied, it is important that her manipulation attempts against her man not be too effective. You must learn to observe female behavior and give the right responses, with the goal of making her happy on the emotional level, as opposed to responding to manipulation attempts on a logical level.

    Learning to respond appropriately requires knowing the various stages of female manipulation.

    A woman’s attempt to own you mentally will follow certain incremental stages, which predictably occur with mathematical precision. We will now discuss each of the following stages in detail:

    • Testing the Male
    • Seeking Communication
    • Putting him to Work
    • Evolutionary Selfishness
    • Self-Determination

    Depending on the woman’s self-esteem, there are big differences in the way these stages will play themselves out. If a woman has high self-esteem (HSE), she will test you and manipulate you in a totally different way than a woman who has low self-esteem (LSE).
    Testing the Male

    “Let me be a little bitch to him/’ A woman knows on the instinctual level — and also on the rational level — that a man can impregnate a large number of women without too many consequences. In our modem age of mandatory child support, this is not always true in practical terms, but biologically it remains the case that the female has a much higher risk and burden when it comes to pregnancy than the man does.

    A woman also knows that a weak male will not be able to protect her or her children in any way. Imagine as a man how your thoughts about survival would be different if every time you made love to a woman you faced the possibility of carrying a baby in your belly for the next nine months, followed by the primary responsibility of taking care of the baby for many years to come. Imagine how you would feel if you knew that your partner could leave you at any time and impregnate other women and/or leave for war or for hunting. Get the picture? You would become much more selective in your choices of who to mate with.

    From this biological reality stems the deep need that a woman has to test the male for his physical and leadership qualities. In our modern society, the need to test for physical qualities and financial stability has become less important than the need for qualities such as leadership, intellectual capacity, and strength of personality; but that would be quickly reversed in the case of war.

    One thing is for sure: a woman in this stage will test the male for his skill of being a hunter. This will happen whether you are skilled in hunting animals in the grassy field or company shares in the business field; you can be sure that at the first stage of manipulation a woman will test you.

    A woman will always test a male who she is sexually attracted to. For a psychologically healthy woman, survival and sexual desire must always harmonize with each other. A woman who tests men only for survival benefits — such as a man’s ability to provide — is denying her sexuality. A woman who tests men only for their sexual appeal, is either planning to live her life without men, or is being self-destructive.

    Seeking Communication “Open up to me, please.”

    Once a woman has tested the male, and is relatively sure that he is strong enough to serve her purposes, her concern begins to revolve around making the man serve her exclusively. Many men who are relatively strong and pass the tests of the first stage, fail to understand the meaning of this second stage. This stage is extremely difficult for the average man to detect. It is instinctually and often unconsciously masked by the woman as a purely innocent attempt to “communicate” with the male.

    It is a feature of the feminine psyche to appreciate communication above all else, but from an evolutionary point of view what the female of our species is really doing at this stage is using language to befuddle her partner, which will hopefully cause him to serve her and her purposes.

    This stage is extremely important to the success or failure of couple relationships. Couple therapy fails so frequently because it tends to disregard the real, evolutionary meaning of this stage. A very common pitfall for couples is when the woman starts to feel that the man is displaying an inability or unwillingness to “communicate properly” with the woman. Modem couples therapy almost invariably places the blame for this supposed lack of communication squarely on the man’s shoulders.
    In the first stage, the woman has screened out the weaker males; the man was specifically chosen by the woman for a relationship. In this second stage, the woman acts as if she is seeking deeper communication with the man. A strong man will start to sense that an attempt is being made to weaken him, and he will then usually react with certain predictable behavior patterns. He may get angry or he may withdraw. Arguments that seem to the man to be based on nothing logical at all will often occur at this stage.

    Putting Him to Work

    “Honey, please take out the trash and wash the cat, and please hurry!” When and if a man opens himself emotionally up to a woman — in the sense of what we discussed in the preceding subsection — from that point onwards the woman effectively owns the frame of the relationship. Now, the active destruction of attraction can begin in earnest, as she starts her attempts to take over aspects of the man’s life which directly affect his material interests. For example, purchase decisions can now be made “jointly” which, in the cool light of rational analysis, really are the result of the woman’s manipulation attempts and the man’s desire to maintain some semblance of peace in the household.

    Female Evolutionary Selfishness

    “I am never satisfied no matter what you do or how hard you try.” This stage begins once the woman has succeeded in having her formerly-strong male open up to her emotionally. In this stage, any communication with her male partner is only for the purpose of deriving something useful for her and her children. At this stage she will exhibit a total disregard for the man’s psychological and material interests. The man will be put under the power of a strong and constant psychological double bind, along the lines of:

    “If you don’t open up to me I am not satisfied. You don’t communicate with me.”

    simultaneous with

    “As soon as you open up to me I will use the information you provide in a totally selfish way for my own needs.”

    Either way, the end result for the male is usually guilt, shame, or confusion, finally giving way to resentment and anger. Assuming he takes her seriously — and most men do — he will get caught into an ongoing psychological mechanism, which will make him weaker and weaker, with terribly-negative results for her sexual attraction towards him. At this stage, he is no longer the strong male she admired at the beginning.

    Female Self-Determination

    “I am full grown, independent woman now.” Of course, the female in the relationship never was a “little girl.” In the self-determination stage, however, another double bind — even more powerful than the preceding — will be thrown at the male. Once he starts to seek out the emotional communication that she had been asking for all along, she will begin to express sentiments such as she is feeling oppressed, or that the man is boring, or that he is too nice, or that he doesn’t understand her, and so on. Again, the usual effect of such feminine expressions on the man is bewilderment, shame and guilt.

    If at this point the man decides that he does not care at all about what she says or does, she will assert that “he is not a loving husband/boyfriend” or “I cannot live with him because he does not understand me,” or “I do not feel anything for him anymore,” or “sex without communication is a turn off”; once again inducing some very negative feelings within the man.
    In the Self-Determination Stage, the female expresses her resentment and dissatisfaction with the relationship. This happens virtually without exception in the case of male partners who have become progressively psychologically weaker with time.

    Men who are able to pass through these stages without a corresponding decrease in their women’s sexual attraction towards them are exceptionally-strong men. These men avoid becoming psychologically weaker through the process. We believe that such men are more the exception than the norm. It is much better for nature to first create attraction between a male and a female and soon after have it decrease. That helps to ensure both a safe upbringing of the offspring as well as more sexual interactions with other sexual partners, which in turn results in more offspring and a wider spreading of genetic materials.

    This is not much different from what happens with many animal species, including species where the female kills the male after copulation. In the case of humans, this “killing” happens on the psychological level. The killing of human males by their female partners is largely symbolic, but we must also take into account those men who take this process so seriously that they start to destroy their health through the abuse of alcohol or drugs, or start to abuse their partners, or even murder their partners or commit suicide.

    In other words, permanently-monogamous sexual relationships are not necessarily natural. They are partly a modern, social construct. Or, put another way, they are a social construct, the evolutionary purpose of which lasts for as long as Nature considers it useful.

    Manipulation End-Game

    In traditional, male-dominated societies, if the female cannot leave the relationship when her attraction evaporates through the process discussed above, the end result is often clinical depression and/or cheating. Clinical depression occurs when her sexual attraction for her mate decreases or dies out completely, and she is prevented from having sex with other males by social restraint. The woman in this case has to face a practically impossible conflict between her emotions, which demand sexual satisfaction, and her societally-restrained behavior, which prohibits sexual satisfaction.

    In modem, politically-correct societies, a common end result of the manipulation process is the woman ending the relationship, or acting in such a way that the man has no other choice but to end the relationship. Infidelity is very likely to happen in either case.

    Psychological counseling and family therapy usually fail to help couples in this situation because they start from the shaky assumption that exclusive committed relationships are always “healthy” and that having sex with different partners is “sick.” They also fail miserably in detecting the slow and dangerous psychological process whereby the mind of the male is confronted with schizophrenic double messages from the female, which would be considered to fit the clinical definition of Borderline Personality Disorder by most experienced clinicians on the planet.

    Usually what happens in therapy and psychological counseling in the western world is that the male is made to be the scapegoat of a process which has been actively maintained by the female. There are some professionals who understand this process better than most, but they often do not have the courage to speak out about it. On a meta-level, what is happening with this social process is simply another evolutionary mechanism, one which allows for more pregnancies and for the upbringing of children in the most viable way possible.

    There is certainly a strong cultural influence at work here and it behooves men to understand these forces and to work hard to make themselves strong men who do not succumb easily to female manipulation. Above all, a man with children should start from the premise that he is an equally important and vital link to a child’s psychological well being. There are countless studies which show that statistically, children do better in every social and psychological respect when they enjoy the equal influences of a healthy male and a healthy female parent.

    Although the onset, intensity and order of occurrence of each of these stages in the betaization process may vary from woman to woman, in our experience this process has occurred in every long-term relationship we are familiar with: ours, our friends, and our families, and in countless case studies that we have researched. In fact, this process is exactly the means by which women turn short-term relationships into long-term relationships. However, female manipulation is not difficult to counter once a man understands the process. Let’s revisit each stage in turn.

    Testing never ends. Women test unconsciously. Testing is the woman’s primary method for determining congruency and for discerning a man’s authenticity; his ability to be genuine. Testing ceases to be an issue of any significant consequence when the man is fully congruent — both internally and externally. The woman will still always test, but once a man has it together, he will pass the woman’s tests without much effort or even realizing he is being tested.

    Since testing is so closely related to the mechanisms controlling sexual attraction, it is important to remember that testing never ends. Maintaining an appropriate level of attraction within any romantic relationship is very important. One way we, the authors, maintain attraction with our mates is through regular, social interaction with other attractive females. For more information on why maintaining friendships with the opposite sex is important to your relationship, please see Chapter 19, “Male Qualities Attractive to Women.”

    Seeking Communication is really her signal that she is suffering from emotional ambiguity. Most men view a woman’s pronouncement of “I don’t feel we are communicating” as a logical statement addressing the exchanging of facts — or a lack of such activity — between two people. It is not. It is an emotional statement involving her confusion and emotional disconnection from the relationship.

    When the woman puts the blame on the man, this is normal, for two reasons. For one, women habitually blame their own emotional distress on external factors, thus absolving themselves from responsibility. When a man happens to be the most convenient “blame receptacle”, then he gets the blame. The second reason she does this is that she is actually making a request for masculine leadership. She wants her man to step up and deal with her out-of-control emotional state with mascvi-line strength, and without fear.

    The only important word in any such statement coming from a woman is “feel.” It’s so important that in many cases it doesn’t matter what she feels, as long as it’s any emotion stronger than indifference. Anything with passion will do, as long as it’s followed up, in all cases, with the appropriate level of physical commitment. And always make sure that intense displays of passion are followed by intense displays of affection. Let’s be blunt: keep her well-sexed.

    Being Put to Work can be stopped simply by saying “no.” Do it sometimes. Just say no! If your woman has become habituated to your instant obedience, then refusing a request is going to stop her in her tracks. She will literally not know what to do. Lots of drama could ensue, so be prepared.

    Another way to handle her constant requests is in a spirit of teasing and fun. You can gently make fun of her being “bossy,” and so forth.
    Yet another effective way to handle a woman’s attempts to put you to work is to negotiate with her. For example, if she demands that you take the kids shopping for clothes, you can kindly request that she prepare a special meal while you are gone. While tit for tat may seem thoroughly unromantic, by the time a man is in this situation, we believe the romance is far gone anyway. There is nothing to lose, and your self-respect to regain.
    Best yet, be proactive and act like a leader: women want to feel useful and contribute to something meaningful. Spend some time to give your female counterpart meaningful work, ensuring that yon are the one who determines the direction of the family. You will find that agreeing on specific tasks becomes much easier. When you appreciate a good woman for her specific contribution, she will be delighted in her relationship, and feel she made an excellent selection in a man.

    Evolutionary Selfishness is understandable when we consider that the female’s primary concern is always for her own well-being and that of her children, It is difficult — if not impossible — for most women to feel altruistic or merciful towards a grown man. Your role as the man is to be her protector, or to get out of her way. However, as a strong protector you have great value in the eyes of a healthy woman. So the key here is to assert your value and put a price tag on your leadership of her and the family. This means simply that you lead the relationship and continually give her tasks within the context of the relationship.

    Putting a price to your leadership also means having your own moral standards, whereby it’s subcommunicated from the beginning and throughout the relationship that you, as a man, expect certain behaviors and certain types of treatment from the female, if she is to retain your interest in being her leader and protector. As we discussed in the chapters on Screening and Female Self-Esteem, certain women, obviously, will never he able to submit to male leadership, no matter how strong you are.
    Self-Determination This stage is a very strong signal from the woman that — in her mind — the relationship has ended, or is about to end. She is effectively telling you that she no longer views the two of you as a unit. As difficult as it may seem, at this stage you may need to be prepared to let her go. Your best chance to salvage the relationship may be to start right back at the beginning; let her know that you are equally prepared to leave the relationship if you are not getting the respect and admiration that you want and deserve.

    You never want to be in a position where you are chasing or begging a woman. Not only is that a pathetic position for a man to find himself in, but any shred of sexual attraction that had remained in the woman will be completely destroyed by such actions.

    In reality, a man can survive just about anything, including the ending of a cherished relationship. Therefore, consider this stage as the ultimate test of how much of a man you really are. If you fail this test, the game is over with this particular woman.

    Yes, life is hard. The manosphere makes it easier. That’s why it was invented.

  36. why is it free?

    Well technically it’s not really. Many of the “free” porn sites actually come riddled with spyware, adware, and Trojans. So the fee isn’t charged up front, it’s taken in the form of stolen credit card numbers and stolen processing power on your computer. There’s also ads on the less shady sites, so the same deal applies there as for television and YouTube.

  37. @AR re: cocktease

    If you’re trying to train a dog, and aren’t particularly humane about it, a good way to do it would be to:

    A: keep it hungry
    B: let it know you have food

    A doesn’t work without B.

  38. Forge
    It’s an interesting detail that this is a disease to be managed rather than cured

    Well, sure. One guarantees endless work for “therapists”, the other doesn’t. One requires endless meddling in someone’s life, the other doesn’t.

    “Managing” a “disease” creates a marionette on strings, whereas “curing” doesn’t.

  39. “I just don’t see how loyalty isn’t an implement of the FI… ”

    loyalty to my wife has nothing to do with sexual monogamy on my part. it means that she knows where the cash and metal are buried. this is for my benefit, not hers.

    I can’t see 360 degrees. she has my back. she’s got mad skills. survival skills. good insticts. a killer sense of direction. she makes me stronger. plus I can fuck her whenever I want to clear my head.

    no man is an island. at some point you have to trust someone. with a good red pill lens, understanding of hypergamy and solipsism, and the will to dominate, a woman can be the ultimate partner because all her moves follow the script and can be preempted. and women are submissive so there are no real power struggles which can happen between two strong-willed men teaming up.

    women take to training like dogs. dogs are man’s best friend and loyal to the death. train your woman correctly and she will be too.

  40. “Already happened back in the 90’s when the “Violence Against Women Act” was jammed into law. Feminists, tradcons, socons, all got on the bandwagon. That law is what made false accusations of DV both potent and without risk.”

    @AR

    Good point, uniting for a common cause would just a be good feels love fest.

  41. I can see Xplat’s posts might get us a bit off the rails.

    Before railing against his (I think very logical) point, I think you have to figure out: what, for you, is monogamy FOR?

    There are some legitimate answers to this. For example, if you believe in God and that he requires monogamy, it would be reasonable to be monogamous even if your instincts said otherwise. But that doesn’t have very much to do with what he saying; what he’s saying is that, even in such circumstances, it would be in our instinctive nature to not be monogamous. We only are because an external force (God) requires it, and we see acquiescence to that power to be appropriate.

    If you don’t believe in such a power as that, then you have to figure out what monogamy means for you. Because it’s very likely that some external force is working on you to create arguments for monogamy in your head without your approval. But it’s also possible that it really is your best option given your circumstances or disposition.

    It’s just, you’ll never know unless you honestly evaluate the possibility that you’re being manipulated.

  42. @Andy: I just don’t see how loyalty isn’t an implement of the FI… Integrity… to whose morals?

    Young males usually had learned about loyalty and integrity from older male; male cohesion kept the fires burning and meat on the spit.

    The FI of a singular woman may attempt to co-opt the tendency of a male to remain loyal and act with integrity – witness the number of military men who treat their wives as if that woman were one of his team mates. It’s pretty slick on her part. So, yeah, the FI can use loyalty and integrity but cannot generate them.

    However there are men who say “this is the way I’m going to be” and do just that. On the other hand, I still have my lantern raise and am still looking for a woman exhibiting loyalty – that’s how we know the Odyssey is a myth: Penelope is loyal to Odysseus.

  43. SJB, I’ve read that criticism of the virtual before, however, consider the studies that call porn and ‘addiction’.

    The base premise is that when guys expose themselves to a certain threshold of sexual stimulation (via online porn) the brain cannot distinguish between the reality and the fantasy of the act. Thus, they become desensitized to ‘real’ sex and can’t get it working for their wives or GFs.

    Likewise, as VR experience becomes more realistic it becomes ‘better’ than life. Just look at the ‘addiction’ that the virtual worlds of MPORGs (World of Warcraft) inspired. By comparison these are relatively low level artificial realities, but the ‘addiction’ is real because the mind prefers that life to the real one.

    I find it interesting that we’ll readily accept the fact that men’s minds cannot separate fantasy from reality when it comes to sexual response, but we’re all supposed to be rational, responsible agents with regard to every other form of VR.

    MPORGs are a rudimentary example of the virtual experience I’m getting at here. On a root level the FI understands the threat VR represents to its ‘real’ life control over men’s sexual response. Thus, the logical solution to maintain that control is to either shame men for opting for the ‘fantasy’ or to insert those controls into the fantasy that men are opting for, or preferably both.

  44. @Andy

    “but it’s just like… what are you getting from monogamy that I’m not?”

    Would you believe me if I told you I am not arguing for monogamy?

    But I am comfortable with it. It is simply “less messy” as described in that Tyler hour long video posted by YaReally. And it’s not for easy pussy, although the pussy is fine. Motive and opportunity do indeed play a role.

    And I’d be a rich man if I had a nickle for every time a married man thought of the fact that he wouldn’t marry again if he were single tomorrow.

  45. ” Just look at the ‘addiction’ that the virtual worlds of MPORGs (World of Warcraft) inspired”

    Lots of men have zero experience in those worlds. lots of men don’t watch porn. starting to look like all this gaming/vr/porn stuff is a trap, intentional or not

    the fiber optic pipe may be the biggest shit test of all time

  46. “But I am comfortable with it. It is simply “less messy” as described in that Tyler hour long video posted by YaReally.”

    @SJF
    Are we ALL on the same page regarding monogamy?!?! lol. Progress!!!

    “Thus, the logical solution to maintain that control is to either shame men for opting for the ‘fantasy’ or to insert those controls into the fantasy that men are opting for, or preferably both.”

    @Rollo

    The shame wouldn’t stop most guys from doing it, it would just make them feel bad about it afterwards. Fuck, I wouldn’t be surprised if the shame involved creates a higher propensity to indulge. Like embracing that something must be wrong with you is easier than trying to improve your situation.

  47. MPORGs are just an easy example, your virtual experience is much more nuanced than this. This was a comment from Reddit on this article:

    The success of the new virtual consciousness is inversely related to that of the immediate consciousness. The more we begin to rely on virtual interpersonal communication, the less we need real interpersonal communication.

    You can see this in how our immediate consciousness has been invaded by the virtual one. People text their friends while they ignore the friends in front of them. They open their smart phone cameras to snap a picture of their food before opening their mouths to eat. I can’t think of any other examples because I partake in the virtual consciousness as little as possible.

    My first and only oneitis happened around the time that I bought my first smart phone. I was overjoyed at the prospect of maintaining immediate contact with someone who I wasn’t physically close to. Sure, my actual immediate consciousness suffered, but I felt like this virtual consciousness was its equal. That this sentiment is shared by many is what allows for the virtual consciousness to thrive and threatens the immediate consciousness.

    Because the virtual and immediate consciousness are in many ways similar, they cannot coexist. When I finally got together with this sloot after we made and broke plans (reluctancy to exit virtual and enter immediate) she would spend our time together trying to get away from me (on phone or on computer, etc.)

    There is a good reason for limiting virtual interpersonal communication to attempts to arrange immediate communication. This is what only texting for logistics is. Postponing this temporarily can easily lead to postponing it indefinitely. The sloot you text all day every day is too “busy” to make plans with you when she’s free. Abstaining from virtual consciousness is freedom.

    Just your typing a response to me on this thread is an example of a virtual experience. Now expand that experience to something like Twitter where we get the likes of Anita Sarkesian being brought into the administrative fold in order to establish what is and isn’t an acceptable virtual experience according to the FI.

  48. starting to look like all this gaming/vr/porn stuff is a trap, intentional or not

    Testosterone samples taken from winning and losing teams in the world of sports show winners have higher T. More interesting, the fans show the same pattern – winning boosts T, losing drops it. I’m sure dopamine levels move as well.

    Computer gaming gives the illusion of winning some fight, just as porn gives the illusion of a virtual harem. Neither is actually happening, but the hindbrain doesn’t know that.

    Dopamine hits are dopamine hits are dopamine hits.

  49. @Xplat

    Never mind the rest, give ME whatever sound advice you got to nailing women out of my “pre-approved” league.

    Should I just read your articles one at a time, or do you have a recommended list of what I should read first, like Rollo?

  50. Rollo
    Just your typing a response to me on this thread is an example of a virtual experience. Now expand that experience to something like Twitter where we get the likes of Anita Sarkesian being brought into the administrative fold in order to establish what is and isn’t an acceptable virtual experience according to the FI.

    Exactly.
    This reminds me of something I saw some years ago, I’ve told it various places. I was talking with a married man I knew at a coffee house, in the conversation he mentioned in passing an application on his laptop that stored every URL he accessed on his browser, and on regular intervals bundled all the last N minutes of browsing into an email. This email was then sent to his wife’s email account.

    So he had an app that enabled his wife to virtually lean over his shoulder all the time he was browsing. This was pretty obviously an anti-pornsite measure IMO. But it could just as easily have been used to keep him off of, oh, I dunno, The Rational Male or other androsphere sites. I can see where any number of traditional, conservative older men that I know would think that was just a grand idea to “protect women”, especially wives.

    Now let’s imagine something like that on a phone. Heck, let’s let a ‘bot like Siri control it. Not just browser URL’s, but texts as well, all copied to someone else.

    Combine that with the clumsy attempts at control in the Twitterverse via shadowbanning, etc. Are we having fun, yet?

  51. Loyalty is a base drive that maintains the integrity and safety of the hunting pack and fireteam. It is a male bonding psychology.

    Women manipulate that base drive for their own benefit, which, so long as the MI is fully operative, benefits the greater tribe. The children do need to be produced and raised if extinction is to be avoided.

    In the extreme, however, in the absence of a fully operational MI, women will completely hijack and Stockholm Syndrome the shit out of it.

    If you are maintaining a marriage vow only because you made the vow and keeping it is moral (and I have been there and done that), you are being a slave morality useful idiot.

  52. @SJF, that has got to be the best relationship quote I’ve ever read.

    And it brings up something that’s been on my mind; how timeless and constantly rediscovered all this stuff is.

    For instance this “This means simply that you lead the relationship and continually give her tasks within the context of the relationship.” is something that was my “original” insight on my blog years ago. I put it as “always be giving commands”.

    Being able to maintain MLTRs, or to have discreet yet accepted or not too troublesome affairs is a SKILL.

    As the authors of that quote stated, it is an unusual skill. Perhaps by evolutionary design.

    But it is a skill. A man can remain strong and keep frame and call the bluff of women who claim they will leave him if he “cheats”.

    Every woman will fight tooth and nail for monogamy. Later if not sooner.

    They will all SAY they will leave you.

    Very few men can call their bluff.

    Those men tend to arouse stronger feelings of love, lust, and attachment than do the men who capitulate. Capitulation is a turn off. Especially in the long run.

    When a man has too much to lose by seeing other girls, it’s not just because the system is stacked against him, and he’s working with the hand he’s dealt, and making the best of the situation by making compromises.

    It’s the man who set up the situation in the first place. A guy who got betaized and accepted that as the normal way of things. A choiceless way.

    A guy doesn’t have to set things up that way.

    A guy can marry a crazy person, and then complain about the system after he gets brought up on charges of domestic violence and divorce raped. He can say that the system is fucked up, and that he was just doing his best to deal with the system.

    The situations that we are in are the situations that we PUT OURSELVES IN.

    If a guy is married and would accrue great damage from seeing other girls, it’s not because married men automatically always damage their family with infidelities. There are cultures today (or you could say subcultures within every culture today) where infidelity is common and accepted. For hundreds if not thousands of years, it has been an accepted norm.

    If it can’t be accepted in any man’s household, that’s because that’s the household that HE set up in the first place.

  53. @Rollo: I’m tracking what you are saying: technology is interrupting the exchange of vaginal access for goods plus services hence the need for the FI to attempt to assert control.

    On the other hand, the comment from Reddit shows the inverse: the ideal man is unreal; a real man is undesirable.

    Pity.

  54. I advise young people to abstain from social media. I advise them not to let their daughters watch “Frozen” and their wife’s not to listen to Focus on the Family. If they were to eat 3 pints of high quality ice cream per sitting I would advise against that.

    Do humans want to eat fat? Yes. Is it good for us to do and get everything we want? No.

    I look at this as less. of an issue concerning competing imperatives and more as an issue of self preservation. Just because a women does 50 pathological things before breakfast doesn’t mean that 1 pathological thing for me is good mental hygiene.

  55. “I can see where any number of traditional, conservative older men that I know would think that was just a grand idea to “protect women”, especially wives.”

    Q.E.D.; and you would be hard pressed to find a better example of slave morality.

    @Rollo: “kfg, already covered this”

    And I figured there was a fair chance you would provide the link.

  56. “just as porn gives the illusion of a virtual harem”

    interesting. what I don’t understand is how modern men define harem.

    traditionally it meant a group of virgin women kept locked up for the warlord and only the warlord to fuck

    the porn being watched today has men in it too, doing the fucking. in junior high when I watched porn on vhs it was always “lesbian”. not a dude in sight. we all thought that was normal because why would you want to see some dude’s schlong when you could see more tits

    so if guys are watching other guys fuck women then either they don’t understand the purpose of a harem or something else is going on.

    “Computer gaming gives the illusion of winning some fight”

    this too is interesting because it shows the difference in preference of men in using the webz.

    you could spend countless hours pretending to fight in warcraft world, or you could watch videos on how to press and deadlift and squat, get strong as fuck and go out and beat the shit out of people for real

    an awesome video I saw on pressing the other day had like 10k views over 3 years. funny because pressing drives your T up like crazy too, but it’s actually you making it happen, instead of some athletes doing it for you by association.

    “Neither is actually happening, but the hindbrain doesn’t know that.”

    maybe the hindbrain doesn’t know only if a person has never actually fucked hot girls or beat another man senseless. once it has real life experience for comparison, porn and video games seem pretty silly. plus the smell of things is so essential for me. girls smell awesome. so does blood. olfactory is a direct line to the brain. without it something is missing.

    lesson: get your sons fucking, pressing and fighting as early as possible

  57. @Yollo, most of the stuff that I write on my blog is about my personal experience in long term and multiple long term relationships, and is about maintaining and building passion from the woman. “Contemplative dominance for the modern man”. It’s half personal diary, and half contemplations about how relationships work, using my own life as the science lab.

    I don’t talk much about how to meet or seduce women. I’m not actually very good at that part. I mean, once I’m face to face on a date, things usually go well, but I’m not good at cold approach, and don’t have helpful advice for where or how to meet women.

  58. “If they were to eat 3 pints of high quality ice cream per sitting I would advise against that.”

    I eat one per sitting. gotta get to 5k calories somehow

    “Do humans want to eat fat? Yes.”

    hell yes. I drink shots of olive oil. mct oil in everything. walnuts. avocados. coconuts. ice cream.

    can’t get big without T. can’t have T without fat.

    press and eat and fuck. your woman should barely be able to keep up with you – in the kitchen and in bed

  59. Rubbing one out once in a while is preferable to becoming a professional Landwhale Rider.

  60. @SJF

    “Female Stages of Manipulation”

    Brilliant!

    When I first learned to detect female manipulation I was shocked how often they manipulate and how ingeniously good they are at it.

    It’s a pet theory of mine and a RP buddy that women in a LTR seek to wear a man down psychologically by interrupting his sleep, confusing him through poor logic, arguments over petty matters, making him insecure through jealousy, interrupting his deeper thoughts. If I’m watching a movie with a woman or reading a book close to her, she will interrupt my thoughts every five minutes.

    As Tony Sporano said of his mother, “And my dad was tough. He ran his own crew. A guy like that, and my mother wore him down to a little nub. He was a squeaking little gerbil when he died.”

  61. “I eat one per sitting. gotta get to 5k calories somehow”

    I knew our culture had crossed the Decadence Line of No Return when I first came across ads for zero calorie “food.”

    My biggest problem with ice cream is that the sugar reduces the caloric density.

  62. Bachelorocles

    It’s a pet theory of mine and a RP buddy that women in a LTR seek to wear a man down psychologically by interrupting his sleep, confusing him through poor logic, arguments over petty matters, making him insecure through jealousy, interrupting his deeper thoughts. If I’m watching a movie with a woman or reading a book close to her, she will interrupt my thoughts every five minutes.

    What great examples.

    I had an “original” insight years back about this very thing. As far as I knew I’d never read it anywhere. The way I put it is that women try to make you emotionally worn down in order that you lose the attractive spring in your step. At the extremes, when you are pissed of at her and need a day or two to calm down, you are the least attractive to other women.

  63. Oh, and of course there are countermeasures that can be learned to combat this.

    It took me many years to build up an armoury of countermeasures.

    When a girl interrupts me on the piano or while I’m typing, I get quite stern. Stern enough that they learn.

    Basically I try to train women to shut the fuck up, most of the time.

  64. “My biggest problem with ice cream is that the sugar reduces the caloric density.”

    right on.

    the only sugar I get removed from the whole food matrix is in ice cream and maple syrup – I drink shots of that too. and since the ice cream sugar comes from grass (probably) I try to limit it overall even though it doesn’t contain wga

    gotta fill up the depleted muscle and liver glycogen somehow and when you work your ass off and have great insulin sensitivity it’s not a problem at all.

    insulin is anabolic as fuck. just have to learn how to control it and use it for your benefit.

    my wife was in the kitchen from 10a – 7p yesterday. loyalty is not in doubt when she spends 9 hours of her sunday making food for me to fuel my lifts all week

    I totally agree that women want to serve and be useful to their men as she was singing and dancing around the entire time. that excerpt SJF posted is good shit

  65. @SJF @Andy
    “But I am comfortable with it. It is simply “less messy” as described in that Tyler hour long video posted by YaReally.”

    To be clear: I have nothing against monogamy if that’s what you WANT to do. But most guys don’t WANT to do it, they just didn’t realize they, specifically THEM (VS rich good-looking people they see on TV etc), had another option BESIDES that route and they generally don’t have enough experience with it to realize that the idea of a harem arrangement or pLTR setup DOES appeal to them because they’ve been conditioned to believe that they’re “wrong” for having any kind of desires that don’t follow the FI.

    If you legitimately enjoy monogamy, and you fully understand the drawbacks of it and the shit-tests your girl will throw on you now and then to try to shake your frame (to ensure she can still trust that you’re an alpha) and how to prevent those drawbacks from lowering your value and fucking things up (like how Rollo has his job where he’s around bottle service girls creating minor passive dread VS Bob from accounting who’s girl has no worries that he would ever walk away from her), and how stacked against you the odds are in 2016’s social media internet age for making it work, and you understand how insane it is to actually get legally married, and you are 100% sure that you’ll be fine without having side poon or other girls in your sex life, then that’s cool and I legitimately wish that guy the best of luck on making it work.

    But most guys are NOT that guy lol Most guys are lambs heading to the slaughter.

    @xsplat
    From the other thread: your views on what a PUA is are not what PUA teaches guys to be. We can’t help if someone learns a martial art to go bully people and use it for shitty things and refuses to learn the internal side of the art, but that’s not the intention or teaching of the art. PUA teaches guys to go for more than the one night stand.

    If you would quit making erroneous judgements/statements about what PUA teaches, I would quit correcting you.

    Like I doubt there’s much you would disagree with in my breakdown of Primary LTRs (have one main girl who has higher status than the other girls, along with a few regular low-drama FBs for sexual variety, and then the occasional randoms, all open and honest):

    http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/8/#comment-rationalmale-114069

    Or in Blackdragon’s stuff on mLTRs or Tyler’s talks I just linked, etc

    Personally I recommend a pLTR setup for guys who enjoy the picking up aspect of game (Thrill of the Hunt guys VS the Pleasure of Sex guys) because it gives you regular sex and variety and you get the loving aspect of deeper relationships but you still keep a lot of free time and freedom in general to go out and game girls, whereas mLTRs tend to be better for the guys who don’t want to go out poon-hunting anymore and are looking to settle down into a stable lifestyle with a handful of regular committed girls (and tend to be the Pleasure of Sex guys).

    The shit-tests and the ways to handle those shit-tests are basically the same in both types of arrangements though, and are the same as running FBs etc. A casual FB interrupting me when I play piano gets the same stern “you’re crossing my boundaries, watch yourself and knock this nonsense off” look that a Primary gets or a monoLTR girl would get or any mLTR girls would get.

    That’s why it’s useful for guys to read about and understand (and I encourage them to) ALL these different types of arrangements, because of the overlapping dynamics between them, and why guys who roll in spouting off about “LTR game is 100% different from FB game” are full of shit and I call them out on it. They’re just trying to make it sound like they’ve found some special snowflake magic secret that no one else knows or teaches so they can hype their own egos up and don’t have enough experience being around other guys to have seen “oh, they’re doing the exact same thing I’m doing, I didn’t realize that because I had preconceived notions or met a few shitty examples in my travels” just like someone might rule a martial art out as shitty because they’ve only seen shitty practitioners and they don’t realize that their brilliant revelation about how to punch is the same thing a dozen martial arts teach because they didn’t look into them deep enough to know what they were talking about before they started talking shit.

  66. @ fleezer

    “maybe the hindbrain doesn’t know only if a person has never actually fucked hot girls or beat another man senseless. once it has real life experience for comparison, porn and video games seem pretty silly.”

    Seems right to me.

    It’s a hell of a time trying to deal with life when you don’t have prior positive experiences to use as a reference.

    When you don’t know any better, and you feel like there’s nothing better for you out there in the real world, why bother?

    Men today need to take a leap of faith if they’re going to get anywhere. One positive of the Internet is other men can share their experiences and verify that it really is possible to fuck hot girls and beat other men senseless and that life doesn’t have to be contained to a virtual prison cell, lol.

    I’m still trying to get out of this myself. Have some sexual experience now but certainly not with “young hotties.” Not to pedestalize, but I’m in my mid 20’s, and since I’ve never experienced it, I feel like sex with any girls under 30 is just not going to happen, let alone in the 18-20 range, and hot.

    That self-defeating mindset is hard to get over at first. I think having even just ONE experience can make things “click.” Like, you bang one hot 18-20 something year old, your brain realizes it’s possible, and you can repeat that experience.

    If all you’ve ever experienced were overweight older women, it’s pretty fucking hard to imagine fucking a hot younger woman.

    It isn’t even about actually doing it or not. It’s about whether you feel like yo have the OPTION or not.

    If a guy has experience porn and videogames and prefers them to ‘real life,’ then fuck it. Who cares? But if ALL he’s experienced is virtual reality, and he has nothing to compare it to, how can he really know what he wants? How can he choose of his own free will when he’s written off 90% of his actual options and is simply accepting what’s in front of him?

    That’s what I’ve been facing. You’re dead-on about teaching this to young boys. They need to get experience early, and especially in adolescence when their brains are developing like crazy.

    I’m not saying I can’t turn things around, but it’s a hell of a lot harder to do as a full-grown adult that’s never known any better than as a child or teenager who has a masculine mentor to guide him and show him the ropes so he can strike out completely on his own when he’s older with a good sense of who he is.

  67. “Why are there no “yourbrainonporn” sites for women? Why are there no XXXChurch equivalents for the ladies? Why are there no support groups for women ‘addicted’ to romance novels or divorce porn movies? Because that exclusively male pathologizing is only beneficial to the female sexual strategy.”

    I must disagree. This is a weird tit-for-tat argument. YourBrainonPorn is not a feminist plot. How many women have you seen posting on that site, or on NoFap? This is a project by men.

    I think it’s sad that you’re objecting to this, because quitting porn and reducing masturbation is probably one of the best things you can possibly do for yourself as a man. Every single man here should try it: stop jacking off, stop watching porn, and start lifting heavy weights. It’s like being on steroids and amphetamines at the same time.

    To the contrary, porn is the best device the Feminine Imperative has ever come up with. It’s demand reduction. Men would never, ever put up with these humiliating, emasculating conditions if they could not escape into masturbatory fantasy.

    When I stop jerking off, within a week or two I am just very, very angry. I’m angry because I’ve woken up to the world around me. It’s absurd for women to be in the places they are, the way they are, and to act the way they do.

    If you masturbate, you reduce your own sexual appetite and your sexual engagement with the world around you. Therefore the fact that you are constantly surrounded by women that you cannot have sex with, and who flaunt it in your face, seems acceptable to you, instead of seeming like a massive provocation.

    If men didn’t watch porn there would probably already have been a revolution by now.

  68. If you take the time to read the previous posts I link in this article you’ll understand why I agree with you. The point isn’t to seek some equalist balance in ‘sex addiction’ aproximations but to expose the FI’s manipulation of men’s sexual response.

  69. @Lucian,

    That’s been my point. Porn is drug and a anesthetizes us to crap conditions. We’re like dying dogs lying in the crawlspace licking our wounds when we are on it.

  70. @Rollo

    Xsplat has a point, Rollo. Though the way he slices it, if HE has a point, YOU have a point. So who of you two has an accurate map of the territory?

    Allow me to apply Occam’s Corkscrew.

    You BOTH are displaying accurate maps of the territory.

    But what levels are you both displaying? What regions are you both displaying in your respective data sets?

    I don’t doubt either of you are really seeing what you are seeing, but one of my recent insights into myself have told me that you can’t be experiencing everything in any other way than how you both see it in terms of your own separate vantage points. I don’t doubt you BOTH suffer a bias(let’s face it, you work the liquor and game industry, that’s basically human trafficking right there). And if a group of humans doesn’t buy liquor, then do they exist to you?

    Interesting that this should occur to you both to talk about when the subject of Virtual Satisfaction and the FI’s interest in controlling it has come up.

    Don’t worry though Rollo. You are always going to be my favorite senpai. Doing my thinking for me, and showing me how to think are different things. Xsplat doesn’t seem to agree though.

    [img]http://masterkey.thecreatormind.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/earpiece.jpg[/img]

    @Xplat

    I’m going to give your posts a good read as well. However, I can’t just let you call Rollo a MGTOW. Thanks to his pointing out female strategies, I can hang back and watch the femmes plot and cut out over ME for a change. Meager as I am, I can get more than I thought I could, and Rollo challenging me is what made me decide I needed Pussy as a compliment to my life more than I needed Pussy to think I was “cool enough” for it. You read between the lines to see that.

    On the meta level, your calling Rollo out for being a pessimist is reminiscent of the phenomena that occurs where women let two men fight over them. It smacks of projection.

    YOU are trying to make HIM the bad guy. You’re both just as useful to me potentially thanks to the Red Pill truth of pursuing my own interests. And if you aren’t full of shit after all, then you can potentially play off one another spectacularly and cut my learning curb drastically.

    Rollo never said an old fart can’t fuck new chicks. He just said our society isn’t building it’s marketed(to YOU) ego-investments around that. You pay to play and that means you better have cash if you’re old, so the program goes. Or maybe that’s the just the type of chick that frequents the venues that Rollo works(liquor seller events). Either way, you, like anyone here on the sphere has shit to contribute and shit to learn. I look forward to learning from you.

  71. Re: porn addiction

    This originally came up because YaReally suggested just having porn playing in the background etc. as a way for Softek to change his brains’ perception of sex as bad, shameful, or exceptional. Softek objected since he’s had issues with porn in the past.

    It’s already been noted that it’s all in the way you use it. To expand on that – I don’t think YaReally meant you should watch porn and use it to jack off and the usual song-and-dance. That practice takes you out of the ‘real world,’ is used as a self-soothing mechanism (and hence has addictive potential), and blunts your sexuality if you do it too often.

    Nothin’ wrong with it if it’s occasional and under your control. RSDTyler talks about how he uses the option to create abundance mindsets even, lol.

    Past that, it’s to be avoided.

    However, I think what YaReally had in mind was to just put porn on some screen around you and then do something else, like just don’t pay much attention to it. That way you get used to sex being something that’s just normal, hey I’m doing dishes and there’s her third orgasm, damn she’s loud.

    It demystifies it.

    It gets you in the mindset where you can be (for example) doing dishes with a girl then just decide you’re going to fuck her, so you do. Instead of it being this weird hallowed gift from above you have no control over and that’s a bit uncanny, otherworldly. You just learn that hey, fucking happens. Hell, you can make it happen.

    I used the dancefloor as a way of teaching myself some of this stuff when I started. It’s basically teaching you that being sexual/touching people you don’t know is fine. So long as you don’t associate that experience exclusively with dancefloors and carry it forward into other interactions, its a way of breaking the ice your brain has formed around instincts like ‘I feel like I should kiss her now.’

    Similar thing.

  72. @YaReally

    When I master “Kung Fu” I fully intend to use it to beat up on the “homeless” and put on paid performances for international “tourists”. Make of that what you will.

  73. Two points:

    1. Read The Biology of Desire to understand how hitting any pleasure center via behavior is habit forming or “addictive”. You’ll see how the neurology re-arranges itself to make you want to keep doing it more and more and more. And also how one can reorganize their own neurology to move away from these habits. The entire meme of “addiction” is complete garbage, particularly the idea that it’s a disease of some sort. In fact, it’s likely this adaptive aspect of human neurology and behavior is why we are so productive and variegated and engaged in the world. What I do worry about is the burnout that we get from this virtual world, and how can we become like rat which keeps pressing the Pavlovian lever to get the pellet, stuck in a declining sum game of pleasure seeking (the essential nature of what we call addiction)? It seems many of us are vulnerable to this. Women with social media, men with gaming and porn or the internet in general.

    2. Guys, I want to ask a serious question: What is the purpose of this site? Rollo has answered this question. He’s merely descriptive, but deeply so and perhaps in the most intellectually and scientifically rigorous way possible. @Xsplat – I read your comments and understand why you could see how men coming here would fall prey to a Manichean mindset about beta/alpha being deterministic and fatal, and hence MGTOW. I also think that Rollo’s mental schema is less conclusive than you state in your comments on your blog, but it’s still worth reading as you are being productive and thought provoking.

    Again, guys, what is the purpose of this site? For you. In your life. Is it an end in and of itself? It may very well be for many men here. It’s tempting to keep pressing the “Rollo lever” and getting the Rational Male pellet by participating here. But like porn, it’s a declining sum game. Virtual indeed, and get that Rollo isn’t living some virtual existence.

    What is the purpose of this site for you? For me, it’s about the map – and no , it’s not the terrain. What it points out for me that is absolutely crucial is that the term “Game” is crucial to understand. What is the win? What is the payoff? @SJF may be happy to be the apex alpha to his wife. @Yareally may be content with a harem. None of this is absolute, rather we are all solving for our own way forward.

    What am I saying? Get this: What is said here is universal only from an anaytical POV. It’s an abstraction, not reality. It’s thought provoking, not conclusive. It’s a flashlight, showing the way forward in the darkness to many men who are lost and suffering. But it isn’t “the answer”.

    Consider @LeeLee’s commentary. Turns out women have all kinds of shit going that I don’t know about wrt their behavior. Makes me realize that human society is far too complex to reduce to anything. But still, it pays to see what’s what as best we can.

    On the other hand, what’s confounding me most these days is the extent of the social conditioning that I have internalized which prevents me from truly embracing what I want out of life. And how other men are so busy reinforcing female sexual agency and privileges, and shaming men who step out of line. Had an experience on FB wrt a fat model who was being presented as sexy on a group I’m in and my revulsion had me attacked mostly by men.

    It makes me realize how deeply men are conditioned from birth to act against their own interests and desires. Shaming porn fapping is just more of the same.

    What I see so clearly these days is basic: Women choose sexual partners. Men compete for that choice. We live in a social structure where a power imbalance exists between men and women that is ineluctable. Mostly I’m just trying to chill about that and accept the world and life for what it is. I don’t want to fix the world. I don’t want to be right. I just want to make this thing work for me and to be in the world in a way that pleases me. Rollo’s work merely pulls the scales from my eyes, what I do with that clearer vision is up to me. I’m getting that more and more. It’s scary and sad and awesome and enervating and interesting and disgusting and horrific and glorious. Get in the “Game”, whatever way you want. But don’t just sit on the sidelines eating Rational Male or manosphere pellets. Otherwise, what’s the difference between this and watching porn all day long?

  74. @xsplat

    “The way I put it is that women try to make you emotionally worn down in order that you lose the attractive spring in your step.”

    Interesting insight.

    I have good buddies, strong, successful men, seemingly alphas who are worn down. They want only peace at home. So they make the fatal step of purchasing peace with submission. This causes their women to lose respect and sexual interest for them.

    I know two happily married men. They are both RP alphas.

  75. Clarification: The power imbalance I cite above – women choose, men compete for this choice is always going to mean that women have the upper hand in general. Game really means winning their selection beyond what you’d get naturally, essentially hacking their selection processes. But even then, the PUA is doing the work – years of honing and reconditioning one’s behavior and mind. Women still have the upper hand in this matter. Even high value men have this experience, it’s so ingrained.

    My point? To chill about it. To stop clutching my pearls with every new realization about it. To no longer surprised by how it manifests. To anticipate it. To laugh about it. To enjoy it. Most of all? To realize that it cannot be changed or fixed. This is the lot of men. It pays to be high value. It pays to able to game the hamster, but there is no escape from the game itself. Resigning as MGTOW’s do has no effect, it’s merely making a virtue of quitting. Again, you guys are welcome to it. But no matter what, this power imbalance remains, and women will always press their advantages based on that power imbalance.

    What? You don’t like being a dancing monkey? Too bad, you might as well try to avoid gravity while you are at it…

  76. @Forge
    “I don’t think YaReally meant you should watch porn and use it to jack off and the usual song-and-dance.”

    “However, I think what YaReally had in mind was to just put porn on some screen around you and then do something else, like just don’t pay much attention to it. That way you get used to sex being something that’s just normal, hey I’m doing dishes and there’s her third orgasm, damn she’s loud. It demystifies it.”

    lol this. I tried to stress this but I don’t think that came across or people glossed over it.

    It’s simple logic: which guy in college is more likely to fuck a girl he’s alone in his dorm room with? The guy who’s got posters of hot girls and porn plastered all over his walls and wakes to this and walks past this and comes home to this on his walls every day of college:

    NSFW AS FUUUUUCK DO NOT CLICK:

    NSFW NSFW NSFW

    …or the guy who’s a Good Li’l Christian Boy with blank walls and a Jesus cross hanging on it? Or just some normal AFC dude who’s dorm walls look like this:

    Which guys is more likely to view that girl as a “slutty whore who just wants to get FUCKED” instead of a “respectable woman I shouldn’t view as an object”?

    Now you’re not in college so having a wall o’ porn is pretty sleazeball, but throwing shit on your computer screen/TV is close enough.

    I’m not saying sit there and spank to it all day. I’m saying when you’re doing whatever you do at home, working out or cleaning your apartment or getting showered up and pre-gaming to go out and sarge, throw some fucking porn on as background noise/visuals so that your brain gets a bunch of reference experiences that girls are sexual creatures and horny and WANT to find dick.

    So when you’re out at the bar and you see some hot college girls, it reminds you of that Party Hardcore or In The VIP scene where the girls started out doing shots and having fun JUST LIKE THESE GIRLS IN FRONT OF YOU ARE DOING and 20 minutes later they were all getting bent over and fucked and having a great time. “wahh it’s fake they’re paid wahh” shut the fuck up no one cares lol Reprogram your brain with lies, go ahead, just like you do affirmations about how awesome and good-looking you are when you don’t, it doesn’t matter if it’s real or not, none of the shit you learned about women and marriage and shit was real either but your brain is full of THAT bullshit, so fill it with BETTER bullshit that’s aligned with your goals.

    Now you’re viewing those girls as “they wanna get dick, just like that Chaturbate girl I saw who was shoving a wine bottle up her ass for fun earlier” and then you go up with a more sexual vibe and say the girls like you and you get them back to your apartment but they’re not totally warmed up…holy shit now what?? Oh right, you’ve seen this scenario before ’cause you had some episodes of Dare Dorm playing in the background when you were cooking dinner and they had a bunch of college girls in their dorm and started playing stupid truth or dare games and slowly escalated the situation toward sex. “BUT IT’S NOT REAL THEY’RE PAID” SHUT THE FUCK UP KEYBOARD JOCKEY lol A lot of time that shit plays out very similar in real life and because you’re feeding into your brain that “when a girl in the grocery store asks me which cereal to buy, I’m used to that leading to her getting railed with cucumbers in the vegetable aisle 5 minutes later” you’re more likely to think “asking me about cereal eh? She must want it, time to flirt this shit up and look for a way to isolate and escalate!” and go for it.

    Contrast that to some guy who’s been brought up to feel like women are perfect pure innocent angels who think sex is dirty and anal is scandalous and sex before marriage is bad and impure and he avoids porn or anything sexual related to women because he read some stupid website that said porn is bad, written by virtue-signalling nerds who don’t get laid, and then THAT GUY wonders why he doesn’t escalate on a girl who gives him iois and wonders why he doesn’t just txt her “come over” when she’s txting about how horny she is. Why the fuck WOULD he invite her over? EVERYTHING IN HIS BRAIN IS PROGRAMMED TO THINK THAT’S A BAD IDEA lol

    @Yollo

    @scribblerg
    Agree with your points about addiction. That’s why I’m stressing that porn itself isn’t somehow evil, it’s just a dopamine rush like anything. You could get “addicted” to playing a sport or watching YouTube videos about puppies lol The fix is the same for all of those.

    “You don’t like being a dancing monkey?”

    Guys who take value are dancing monkeys. Guys who GIVE value are not. Subtle difference that guys need to understand (by hitting the field and learning the difference). In good infield the guys aren’t being dancing monkeys, they’re just expressing themselves and spreading value. You can do VERY little to pick up a girl if you understand what’s going on.

  77. @forge

    “I used the dancefloor as a way of teaching myself some of this stuff when I started. It’s basically teaching you that being sexual/touching people you don’t know is fine. So long as you don’t associate that experience exclusively with dancefloors and carry it forward into other interactions, its a way of breaking the ice your brain has formed around instincts like ‘I feel like I should kiss her now.’”

    the ultimate thing you need to internalize is that most of the time, women are rejecting you based off your approach or how you’re coming off and that there’s nothing wrong with you.

    like, that GLL vid is not a good example of ‘smooth as fuck’ game, but it’s a good example of that mindset. He -KNOWS- that if he tried ‘just this much’ he could up his lay count….and that knowledge makes him cool with getting rejected, because he knows that there’s nothing really wrong with him and that it’s his to lose.

    sometimes i’ll go out and do the same thing.. unlike GLL tho, i’ve just been partying too hard and i’m out of my mind to where I literally CAN’T calibrate.

    before i started game, literally….pretty normal approaches would get MEAN reactions from women. no joke.

    now….i can be completely out of my mind and women give me ALL SORTS OF CHANCES (just like they give GLL)…it’s pretty insane how far it can go.

    how you do and the difference in how do you at your worst is probably just as eye-opening as the cool shit you do at your best

  78. Ya…. I had this poster on my wall in college.

    Thanks for the mental flashback dude.

  79. YaReally You can do VERY little to pick up a girl if you understand what’s going on.

    Scray if he tried ‘just this much’ he could up his lay count….and that knowledge makes him cool with getting rejected, because he knows that there’s nothing really wrong with him and that it’s his to lose.

    And these two points come together via going OUT and doing it.

    Scribblerg years of honing and reconditioning one’s behavior and mind

    There is so much material out there, and you can really spend a lifetime learning (like a Japanese noodle master), however to get pretty good at game it does not have to take years though, it just takes experiences. You can go out every weeekend and daygame in a popular place and open 20+ women easily in 3 hours… then switch to nightgame and do it again. Will these all be 9’s? No. Not unless you live in Vegas or South Beach in season. But if you want to LEARN and get EXPERIENCE it really can be anywhere.

    Just need to take the time to do it. 6 months on, you will be pretty adept. a year on intermediate…

  80. “MPORGs are a rudimentary example of the virtual experience I’m getting at here. ”

    Had you been 2 decades younger, you would have been twiddling your thumbs on an Xbox rather than a guitar in your 20s.

    And men 2 generations elder to you might have the juiciest opinion about rail thin 20 something boys wasting their youth stringing guitar rather than doing something useful with their lives.

    Playing these MPORGs half decently needs quite a lot of strategy, tactics and practice. At par with any physical sport out there minus the physical stamina.
    When these guys play in tournaments, their strategic executes flows like some beautiful unheard-of poetry.

    Different generations, different buffers, different means of expressing creativity. #JustSaying

  81. @scribblerg

    “What? You don’t like being a dancing monkey? Too bad, you might as well try to avoid gravity while you are at it…”

    what you’re talking about isn’t like gravity tho.

    when women are in an environment where the burden on approaching is on them, they behave exactly like men and men become extremely ‘choosy.’

    whether she will fuck you is tied to social norms and almost nothing else — they really ARE NOT that picky beyond that level.

    if a celebrity walks into the room, suddenly the super high value celebrity becomes way choosier than her….because social norms have conditioned her to believe that the celebrity is much higher value….so it’s her who should approach him.

    game, esp indirect, game is a way to cultivate this type of perception.

    think about cult leaders. what about Charles Manson.

    dude is short and unattractive but because he had such a strong sense of reality, he was able to displace the social norms of those around him and substitute his own.

  82. @Ya – Re: Dancing Monkey – What I mean is that women choose and men compete for that choice. I totally get the distinction you made about giving value and yeah, the Dancing Monkey term is about putting on an act to get something out of a woman. Poor choice of words. In fact, the project I’m working right now (I seem to love long term gambits with women) has done a 180 cuz I got how my my “gaming” was just try-hard bullshit coming from a place of internalized low value.. I’m being more myself, letting myself come out more, being more expressive and less intense and outcome focused and she is coming towards me, I’m not pulling. Gamed a few women over the weekend, young hotties but due to social circumstances (being around my sisters) I didn’t try to pull or escalate. Still good practice for opening, and creating rapport and going deeper into the set though. Been working on getting them to qualify for me a bit more, interesting start. Haven’t gone to a club in a while, but still game anywhere I go.

    It’s more like I’m in a space where I see that it’s about creating conditions where a woman wants to come to me versus me “winning” her over. But still, she chooses and I’m competing for that choice. But I don’t give a fuck cuz that’s just how it is. And trying hard only fucks it up. I be me and play as smart as I can and she either is into it and comes along with me or not. Not much I can do to “make” a woman fuck me. I used to know this from sales. I used to tell newbie reps who were pushing all the time, “If you are pushing, you are losing. You have to get pull at a certain point in a sale or you are kidding yourself. At a certain point in a sale, you stop selling and the client starts buying.” I’m seeing how women are just like that too. It’s more like I’m opening the door to my inner world, to my frame and invite them in – but if they don’t, well, I’m cool. Somehow I’ve gotten to an abundance/ZFG mentality.

    Sadly, I’m in a crisis in the rest of my life – funny, the word crisis seems too dramatic – but I may have to move, I may have to take a shit job and give up on my business. I’m reaching the end of a project which hasn’t turned out well and I’ve got to stop kidding myself. But in the midst of it I’m not depressed or angry or self-pitying, just making the next move. Still, it’s really challenging and this level of financial insecurity is grating. I’ll get past it and want to now. It can turn around very quickly for me as I’m not in a deep hole but it’s more about me actually doing what I want with my life versus what I think I should do. It’s a good thing I think but very unsettling.

    But in the end, no matter the mindset, the SMP is a competition. Women choose and men compete for that choice.

  83. @ scrib

    ” Again, guys, what is the purpose of this site? For you. In your life. Is it an end in and of itself? It may very well be for many men here. It’s tempting to keep pressing the “Rollo lever” and getting the Rational Male pellet by participating here. But like porn, it’s a declining sum game. Virtual indeed, and get that Rollo isn’t living some virtual existence. ”

    I had been talking to a great number of men about ” women and relationships/marriages “, And I was hearing horrifying tales and exclamations that I could not fully wrap my head around. I could not, no matter how much I wanted to, help any of these men.

    I think I started googling ” men and women relationships ” and ” what’s wrong with women ” Lol. I found a lot of stuff that was too femcentric, until I stumbled across Roosh. So I read a whole lotta Roosh, but he was…incomplete in thought. Then I stumbled across CH and read everything there, including the archives from way back. CH was much more complete and entertaining at the same time, but many of the things he professed just were not true ( regardless of ” studies ” ) and overly racial unnecessarily, so I stopped reading there.

    I even read xsplat’s blog for a while….

    I was pointed her to TRM via a link somewhere, and I have been here pretty much exclusively every since. I read the articles and the comments for a few years before posting in the comments section.

    I said a little while back in the comments that Rollo and TRM have given me wonderful retroactive understanding of what was happening to the men seeking help, what’s wrong with women..lol, and what are the mechanical and psychological underpinnings. It makes sense. I had an idea about all of this stuff, but I’d never given it deep enough thought or really bothered to connect so many dots.

    TRM for me is not on par with porn. It is about learning and hearing other men’s views in an environment free of feminine interference and overt fuckery. Practically every commenter here over years has added some measure of knowledge for me on a routinely regular basis. I dig that shit more than I can say.

    Hence, I will be here tomorrow also.

  84. @scribblerg
    I’ve gotten better at my burden of performance because each day i do something new hitting the gym and dance floor even singing and cooking many of my own meals.

    As someone who has done my best to avoid the internet yet still get grasped by it. Its a process for me. Good point

  85. “Resigning as MGTOW’s do has no effect, it’s merely making a virtue of quitting. Again, you guys are welcome to it. But no matter what, this power imbalance remains, and women will always press their advantages based on that power imbalance.
    What? You don’t like being a dancing monkey?”

    So much a contradiction and strawman.
    1. In-essense you proclaim, the house always wins but still the gamblers gotta be the dancing monkey and keep playing.

    2. Half a year back it dawned in me that its actually the society sold me the IOUs, women are what they are. The social contract is broken.
    Considering Sandman articulated the same last month, MGTOW is now orienting more towards redpilling from the society than women themselves.

    You want to thrash MGTOW movement with its 1.0 beliefs is because you apostatized of it. As a neo-convert you can only see everything bad in it. #SellersRemorse may be.

    ” Too bad, you might as well try to avoid gravity while you are at it…”

    Naaaaaah, just stop jumping off the cliff while landing on your head.

  86. Holy shit I forgot that would actually just post the pic right in the thread lol Throw a space in that URL somewhere Rollo! Sorry everyone lol

    @scray @forge
    “how you do and the difference in how do you at your worst is probably just as eye-opening as the cool shit you do at your best”

    Ya Tyler Julien etc actively encourage guys to go out when they’re feeling shitty and try doing the absolute minimum amount of game possible and purposely fuck things up to see how little they can do and how much they can get away with fucking up and how easy it can be to recover from a fuckup, to learn that you shouldn’t JUST approach when you’re feeling 100% amazing, you should never have an excuse not to at least give it a go.

    @Blaximus
    And look at the different in your mindsets compared to Softek or a lot of us AFC chodes who lived in the second bedroom pic I posted. 😉 That’s exactly my point lol There’s a reason Stifler, a guy who talks about pussy with no fucks given and would probably have a dorm room full of hot girls on the walls, is the stereotype of a guy who gets laid instead of Michael Cera in Superbad. Align your thoughts, words, and actions toward one goal.

    @all
    Mandatory watching for all the retards who think “girls decide in the first 5 seconds whether they’re going to fuck you or not” and have zero understanding of how these dynamics work:

    This girl is straight up ignoring Madison, giving him the ice cold shoulder for the first half. 99.99999% of guys would shuffle away with their tail between their legs as soon as she gives him these no effort answers and stands there facing away from him. EVERY fucking dude runs away because they’re looking for validation from the girl. This girl is giving Madison NOTHING to work with, NO green lights.

    But he understands how attraction works, and he uses basic DHV shit like engaging the friend (triggering jealousy, like Mystery said way back in the day “a hot girl doesn’t even know she wants you until she sees other girls want you and suddenly feels pangs of jealousy”) and good subcomms, not letting his frame be shaken, not chasing, not being a dancing monkey TRYING to win her over, just engaging and expressing himself and calibrating his style of game to her personality and laying back being patient.

    He knows when to make key moves, like putting her arm around his shoulders (look how she shifts moods completely in that moment) or like cold-reading her personality (“Dr Phil’ing her” as the other chick says) or switch to focusing on her friend and when to step in and when to lay back and let other guys try their shitty game and knows when to push things forward on the pull.

    And he knows when to PULL AWAY and NOT chase, like their standoff on the dance floor where she’s separated herself from him to see if he’ll chase her but he doesn’t, and at the end when her friend drags her away and he knows to just ride it out for a few more minutes and she comes back for him.

    That chick didn’t go out that night thinking “I hope I meet a doofy-face looking black guy and go fuck him tonight”, she’s not buying calendars of Madison shirtless, she’s not fantasizing about him, she’s not at a wedding saying “that doofy looking guy is the hottest one of those guys over there in our logical passive suit-judging competition” (left a reply breaking down why your experiment was flawed in the other thread Blax)

    Does this girl know how much money he makes? Does she know how ripped his 6-pack is under his jacket and shirt? None of that shit actually matters.

    He was able to create a minor spark and then fan it into a flame from there. That’s the point of what we teach. That’s creating and building attraction. It’s not a CHOICE, girls get attracted to guys they don’t want to be attracted to all the time, if those guys flip the right switches, and then they just backwards rationalize why to justify their feelings (like they do in all other categories of life but somehow guys think ATTRACTION is different lol)

    He’s not spin-hug high-fiving her, or being a crazy dancing monkey, he’s low energy as fuck. He just has solid subcomms and 100% confidence that if he stays in she’ll warm up and grow to love him and he knows how to fan that flame with basic DHVs and shit.

    And for the jockeys who will say “it just shows them getting in a cab, who knows if he fucked her!!! This footage is useless!! I want to see his dick sliding in and out of her pussy!!”, if you think 1) hot girls don’t hide their attraction ALL THE FUCKING TIME till they’re in safe judgement-free isolation, you need more field experience and 2) if you don’t know how how to get a girl who’s into you from in a cab with you taking you home to getting in her apartment (hint: “I gotta pee, I’m using your bathroom but then I have to go I have to work in the morning”, memorize it) and escalating in isolation to sex (dealing with LMR and whatever else), then I mean, get learning, how to do that is all laid out for free in PUA shit for you to learn how to do that.

    Todd talks about the “hot girl blase” all the time. Hot girls will often try to hide that they’re attracted to you and just give you no feedback because they want to see if you’ll ASSUME that they’re attracted to you because if you were an alpha badass with abundance and get girls like her all the time, you would ASSUME that she’s attracted to you without her giving you any feedback. But most guys don’t have that level of confidence or field experience so they view the zero feedback as “she must not be into me because when I approach a 6 she lights up like a christmas tree and gives me massive green lights”. That hot girl NEEDS the guy who just assumes attraction, because any guy LESSER than that will end up being needy insecure jealous weak etc in the long-run.

    Here’s a Todd breakdown of a pull with the infield at the end of the video, and again he breaks down how the girl gives him almost zero feedback but he just assumes attraction:

    No one is masturbating to Todd and his 5’7″ midget height and skinny body and nasally robot voice lol

    @Sentient
    “You can go out every weeekend and daygame in a popular place and open 20+ women easily in 3 hours… then switch to nightgame and do it again. Will these all be 9’s? No. Not unless you live in Vegas or South Beach in season. But if you want to LEARN and get EXPERIENCE it really can be anywhere.”

    Yup. And if guys would quit making excuses and taking wrong action they could do something like cancel their cable or not buy some frivolous shit for a few months and save up enough money to fly TO Vegas or South Beach for a week or weekend and go on a hardcore romp, just like Tyler went and lived in a closet in Project Hollywood and Todd lived in a tent on their lawn and Julien flew to LA to sleep on the floor of some shithole living with a gay dude just for the chance to practice pickup in a real city instead of his shitty little 200 person hometown in Switzerland.

    If you don’t drink and don’t gamble and split a shitty hotel with a buddy and cook groceries instead of eating at restaurants and focus on trying to pull girls who have a nicer hotel room than yours (hint: they ALL do lol), and be outgoing everywhere even during the day while you’re there so you end up drawing the attention of club promoters and befriend them to get free access to venues (or check for guest lists online, or befriend a group of girls on your way to the venue and have them bring you in, etc), you can be sarging Vegas girls for a LOT cheaper than people realize.

    It all comes down to how bad you want it.

    @scribblerg
    “Sadly, I’m in a crisis in the rest of my life – funny, the word crisis seems too dramatic – but I may have to move, I may have to take a shit job and give up on my business.”

    Start talking to and befriending guys more when you’re out. Part of why I don’t worry about my financial situation as I pull out of the hole is that I know I can fuck up like crazy and not have to worry about being homeless…enough people with money and resources like me that they’ll help me out if I need it, because I gave value to them even if it was just throwing a few girls at them when they were too scared to say hi a few years ago in some bar lol

  87. nice image to the article BTW, would suit the topic of burden of performance.

    “TRM for me is not on par with porn. It is about learning and hearing other men’s views in an environment free of feminine interference and overt fuckery. Practically every commenter here over years has added some measure of knowledge for me on a routinely regular basis. I dig that shit more than I can say.”

    As long as TRM comments section is a place where people who know something post often, people who want to learn will flock here.

  88. @Shiva, sorry if I stepped on your virtual toes, but the point is that MPORGs are an immersive virtual experience, and one in which the FI would very much like to dictate the terms of.

    You presume I’m dissing MPORGs, I’m glad you enjoy them, I’m not, but if the mind becomes habituated on VR experiences like online porn, why wouldn’t it be the same for other VR experiences?

    Apples & oranges #justsaying

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