Fempowerment

fempowerment

I’m often asked by ‘fempowered’ women critics whether I ‘believe‘ in some of the more socially acceptable tenets of feminism in some sort defense to the affront of my Red Pill lens being cast their way. It’s usually something to do with, “Do you or do you not think women ought to have the right to vote?” or the ever-reliable “Shouldn’t women have the right to do with their bodies what they choose?” These questions are always binary (“yes or no will do”) and usually couched in a context that implies that if you even slightly disagree or have a marginal caveat to answering ‘appropriately’ you’ll be dismissed with a name tag that has “misogynist” printed on it. Say no and you’re a despicable misogynist. Say yes and you’re tar-pitted in “yes, but” caveats – mansplaining – that are disqualified because you’re a man.

Say no and you’re a despicable misogynist. Say yes and you’re tar-pitted in “yes, but” caveats – mansplaining – that are disqualified because you’re a man. Up until recently, it’s been a very effective means of silencing uncomfortable truths about the Feminine Imperative.

I’ve always found it ironic that a movement (feminism) that predicates itself on the ostensibly egalitarian notion that rational, reasonable considerations of issues should lead us to ideals of equality is the first to reduce itself to unquestioned, blind faith binaries at the first sign of rational reasonable truth being unflattering to women. If you want to know who holds power over you, look at whom you aren’t allowed to criticise – or even hint at criticism.

My position on these and many other questions of the sort is usually met with simple observational analysis (as you’d probably expect). I don’t necessarily have a problem with women voting or even having access to legal (relatively safe) abortions. What I have a problem with is the latent purpose behind the reasons that led to women’s decisions to vote a particular way or the latent purposes that brought them to having that abortion. For the greater part, any dubious ‘right’ women feel they were somehow denied in the past usually comes at the expense of men being liable for decisions they had nothing to do with.

What I have a problem with is an expectation of lowering the standards of the game, thus fundamentally altering the game, to better accommodate the variable strengths and weaknesses of women – up to, and including, changing the very nature of women’s environmental realities that would endanger the wellbeing of both sexes. What I take issue with is the expectation of making men liable for the decisions and consequences of the rights and freedom of choices we’ve reserved for only women to make (almost unilaterally Hypergamic choices) that are not in men’s best interests.

I mentioned in Our Sister’s Keeper that men today find themselves in a very precarious position with regard to entertaining women’s perceived wrongs of the past. Men are expected,by default, to be held accountable, for no other reason than they were born men, for past injuries to the ever-changing Feminine Imperative. Your existence as a man today, your failed understanding to accommodate women’s social primacy, your lack of catering to the ambiguous nature of what conveniently passes for masculinity, is a constant stinking affront and obstacle to the “advancement” of women. The Feminine Imperative has known how to manipulate men’s Burden of Performance for millennia, and at not other time in history has it had the unfettered leisure to do so than now.

So, we get socially acceptable default presumptions of ‘male privilege’ without qualifying what it even means, or we get catchy jingoisms like ‘mansplaining’ to give a name to women’s need for silencing men’s inconvenient observations of women’s ‘correct’ perceptions, decisions and the reasons they came to them. We get default presumptions of male guilt for sexual assault and sexual consent as fluidly defined in as convenient a way that serves women’s imperatives. As I’ve mentioned before, the true intent of feminism has never been about establishing a mutually agreed ‘equality’, rather it’s always been about retribution and restitution for perceived past wrongs to the sisterhood.

There has always been a subtext, a cover story, of equality mentioned in the same breath as feminism. Only the most antagonistic asshole, only the most anti-social prick, would be against “equality between the sexes”. Thus, to be against feminism is to be against a simplistic concept of baseline equality. However, taken out of the propagandizing efforts to shame and ‘correct’ men’s imperatives, it’s easy to demonstrate that the true intent of feminism is female ‘fempowerment’ in the dressing of an equality that no man (or woman) wants to appear to be against.

Yellowed Pearls

I found an interesting example of this  Catch 22 in the Economist recently. Pick and choose: Why women’s rights in China are regressing.

In 2007 China’s official Xinhua news agency published a commentary about women who were still unmarried at the age of 27 under the title, “Eight Simple Moves to Escape the Leftover Woman Trap”. The Communist Party had concluded that young Chinese women were becoming too picky and were over-focused on attaining the “three highs”: high education, professional status and income. Newspapers have since reprinted similar editorials. In 2011 one said: “The tragedy is they don’t realise that as women age they are worth less and less, so by the time they get their MA or PhD, they are already old, like yellowed pearls.”

In the last Red Pill Monthly discussion, I mentioned the expansion that the Feminine Imperative has taken on a global scale. One of the old missives of the manosphere has always been about how American women are too far gone to be worth ever entertaining beyond a pump-and-dump consideration. They are too damaged and self-absorbed beyond all redemption, and men ought to expatriate to another country where women are more feminine or at least necessitous enough to appreciate a conventionally masculine man.

I get that. I understand the want for a Poosy Paradise or some promised land where women are still raised to respect and love men by being conventionally feminine. I also get that there exist certain cultures where this is still true, but for all of that, I think it’s important to recognize the social undercurrent that the Feminine Imperative exercises in these cultures. A popular meme on Twitter is ‘Feminism is Cancer’, but there’s a kernel of truth to the humor of this. The spread of the westernizing social primacy of the Feminine Imperative is spreading, not unlike cancer, into what we would otherwise believe were societies and cultures still oppressed by the mythical Patriarchy – a belief necessary to perpetuate the narrative of default female victimhood.

It may not be now, but at some stage, the Feminine Imperative will exercise its presumptive control over even the societies we think ought to be immune from that cancer. As I mention on The Red Pill Monthly, even in underdeveloped countries where we would expect to find the horrible oppression of girls and women, we make a triumphant example of the incidents of where girls (not boys) are taught to read and “think for themselves”. Westernized culture, founded on the Feminine Imperative, celebrates every time a woman in Saudi Arabia is allowed to drive a car, much less run a business on her own as if it were some blow against the tyranny of men.

Little by little, or in leaps and bounds, your second or third world Poosy Paradise will eventually be assimilated by the Feminine Imperative.

I bring this up because, as you’ll read in the linked article, China is also experiencing the long-term results of having adopted feminine social primacy in its own culture. From women’s popular consciousness, we’re still, to this day, told of how horrible “communist” China has been in mandating its one-child policy and how its draconian ‘sons live, daughters die’ social structure has been the result. However, once we reasonably investigate it, we find that China now has a problem with “Yellowed Pearls” as a result of a cultural shift that placed women’s interests as preeminent in that culture. And it should be noted that this shift came about as the direct result of the men who adopted and accommodated the Feminine Imperative as their own.

Now the problem for women in China is not unlike the plight of American women bemoaning the lack of men with “equal” marriageability as themselves. And likewise, the self-same social authorities responsible for institutionalizing the fempowerment of women are now the horrible misogynist villains for suggesting that women ought to lower their unrealistic standards.

The tone of these articles is surprising, given the Communist Party’s past support for women’s advancement. Mao Zedong destroyed China, but he succeeded in raising the status of women. Almost the first legislation enacted by the Communist Party in 1950 was the Marriage Law under which women were given many new rights, including the right to divorce and the right to own property.

Sounds a far cry different from the pictures women, even women in this century, have painted of China’s institutionalized, one-child sexism doesn’t it? Remember, this advancement in women’s rights took place before the Cultural Revolution in China.

Though collectivisation made the latter largely irrelevant, women played an active role in Mao’s China, and still do today. By 2010 26% of urban women had university degrees, double the proportion ten years earlier. Women now regularly outperform men at Chinese universities, which has led to gender-based quotas favouring men in some entrance exams. However, many of the earlier advances have been eroded in recent years by the gradual re-emergence of traditional patriarchal attitudes.

Consider this part in contrast to other industrialized nations and how women have increased their socio-political standing as the result of having the Feminine Imperative adopted as the primary social order of those cultures. Even in cultures that are still popularly deemed “repressive” to women we see educational and socioeconomic parallels to western(ized) cultures. We also see the same resulting consequences and the shifting of blame for them to men. The downside of Yellowed Pearls is placed at the feet of men for not living up to the convenient, feminine-primary definition of what their Burden of Performance ought to mean in promoting and forgiving women’s decisions.

The party has joined an alliance of property companies and dating websites to confront the issue. Government surveys on marriage and property are often sponsored by matchmaking agencies, and perpetuate the perception that being “leftover” is the worst thing that can happen to a woman. They also promote other myths, such as the idea that a man must have a house before he can marry.

As you may expect, the tone of the article is written to emphasize an egalitarian perspective that conflicts with a reality that the Feminine Imperative would have men change or be responsible for not having changed. It’s men’s fault that women might feel bad for not having married by a post-wall age. It’s men’s fault for promoting myths that women would expect that a man must be successfully established in his life and career before any considerations of marriage occur to him. It’s also a man’s fault for clinging to the “myth” that women don’t want him to be established.

The law is reflecting the shift away from women’s empowerment too. An interpretation by the Supreme Court in 2011 of the 1950 Marriage Law stated that, when a couple divorces, property should not be shared equally, but each side should keep what is in his or her own name. This ruling, says Ms Fincher, has serious implications. In the big cities a third of marriages now end in divorce but, based on hundreds of interviews, she finds that only about 30% of married women have their name on the deeds of the marital flat. Women believe the party hype about becoming a “leftover” woman so strongly, she says, that many rush into unhappy marriages with unsuitable men, made on condition that the brides agree not to put their name on the property deeds.

Feminism Would be a Success if Men Would Only Cooperate More

Several years ago Dalrock had a post detailing the sentiment of feminists that feminism would be a success if only men would cooperate with the ideology by abandoning their own interests and sublimating their own biological impulses. The fact remains that feminism and egalitarianism are failed ideologies because at the root level those ideologies ask men to participate in their own extinction. Not only this, but they ask men to raise successive generations to accommodate and participate in their own degradation.

The narrative expects Yellowed Pearls to be prized by men, or respected as Spinsters, or pandered to as ‘Cougars’ while still maintaining men sublimate their own imperatives by willfully ignoring the fact that their own sexual strategy is what is being asked of them to abandon. As I stated in the Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies, for one sex’s strategy to succeed the other must either be compromised or abandoned – what better way is there to assure this for women than to socially mandate through shame, persecution or financial liabilities that men abandon their own strategy in favor of women?

For some time now, I’ve detailed how for the past 4 or 5 generations, there has been a popular social re-engineering effort to raise and condition boys to become the ‘better betas‘ – boys designed to become the supportive male-reinforcers of empowering women’s interests and imperatives.

For a greater part this effort has been primarily focused on boys and men in western society, and while it’s still open for debate, I’d say that westernizing cultures are really the only cultural environments that can afford to entertain this ‘fempowerment’. This is changing radically now if it was ever really the case to begin with.

In the manosphere we like to highlight the ‘pussification’ of modern men through various efforts on the part of a nebulous ‘socitey’ aligned against masculinity. However, the flip side to this is the fempowerment agenda; an feminine-primary social structure that disallows any criticism of inherently female nature while promoting the empowerment of women on every level of social strata.

We coddle and cater to the feminine in every aspect of social interaction, every aspect of academic achievement, every socioeconomic advantage inventable, every story we tell in every form of media and we do so under the threat of not being supportive or misogynistic for suggesting anything marginally pro-masculine. This is the other side of the demasculinization imperative of boys & men – the total consolidation of handicaping men and empowering women into unrealistic effigies of feminine triumphalism.

How do you counter this?

I’m always lauded for describing these social dynamics, but I’m run up the flagpole for not offering concrete ways of dealing with and pushing back on these imperatives. Many a MGTOW will simply suggest men no longer play the Game, that isolationism is the way to go, but this only serves to eventually concede power to the Feminine Imperative. You don’t get to check out of the Game even if you refuse to play it. For all the guys who left for parts unknown to find their demi-utopia of feminine women in a foreign country, even they will explain that the tide of feminism is changing those seemingly idlyic places. And for every guy to voluntarilly go celebate and “refuse to deal with women” I’ll show you a man whose tax dollars go to fund the consequences of women’s legislated rights to Hypergamous choice.

Sooner or later Men will have to confront and push back against both men and women who are convinced of their purpose in idealizing the dictates of the Feminine Imperative. A lot of men in the ‘sphere believe their being clever when they refer to people with this worldview as ‘SJWs’, but for every hair dyed, gender-confused man-woman you see on Twitter there are hundreds of ‘normal’ people who all share similar perspectives – some simply subconscious generalization they’re oblivious to – sitting next to you at church, or working in the cubicle next to you.

As I’ve mentioned countless times, the change needs to take place by appealing to the hearts and minds of Men by making them Red Pill aware from the bottom up, but moreover, we need to live out that awareness in our own lives and lead by Red Pill example. Our decisions in life, our aspiration in parenting, family and career, in our business dealings, in the women we Game and the people we hire, all of these aspects need to take on the perspective of how they fit into pushing back against a feminine-primary world that demands we surrender any thought of individuated male power.

As Men, we need to unapologetically exercise what little power we’re left with to inform this and successive generation of Red Pill truths tactfully, but with strength of conviction in the face of a feminine-primary society bent on our surrender. Life finds a way. Feminism and the consolidation of the Feminine Imperative have failed because Men were not evolved to acquiesce their dominant spirit. On the same evolutionary level women also evolved into requiring that convnetionally masculine dominance. This is why feminism and egalitarianism will ultimately fail – nature simply will not cooperate with it’s own stagnation. As men, we can use this truth to our Red Pill aware advantage.

891 comments

  1. got duplicate sentences in the beginning.

    “Say no and you’re a despicable misogynist. Say yes and you’re tar-pitted in “yes, but” caveats – mansplaining – that are disqualified because you’re a man.

    Say no and you’re a despicable misogynist. Say yes and you’re tar-pitted in “yes, but” caveats – mansplaining – that are disqualified because you’re a man. “

  2. “Feminism Would be a Success if Men Would Only Cooperate More”

    How do I without reducing my self. It’s been hard to find this balance if their ever was one.

  3. The pushback has to start at home. Raise your kids as red pill aware boys and girls. Explain what they see in the media and experience in their daily encounters with the feminine imperative. Your boys must learn game. Your girls must be taught about the SMP and the wall. A big problem is men who have daughters and think they can expect the same from them as from sons. In effect they turn their daughters in the sons they never had and these girls believe in this myth for the rest of their lives.

  4. So. Call her Fucking Bluff.

    Women will fuck me in secret even if I pick a career that she can’t slap “slave” upon.

    Be dominant.

    Know what she’s playing.

    The medium is the message.

    Ok. Rollo.

  5. Fempowerment is all around us. I was reading Cosmo inline at the grocery store, and they interviewed a guy. The question was whether or not he was feminist or not. The interviewee, said yes of course. He should have said yes, he was a first wave feminist at least. The guy probably did not fully understand what he was being asked to declare an allegiance to.

  6. Hey wait a minute Rollo. What about what Robert Greene said in “The Art of Seduction” about women?

    Women basically invented seduction because of the difference in physical strength between men and women.

    How will the counter-initiative account for the proper socialization of this basic truth?

    Don’t women, growing up in a world with no guarantees, always collude and try to hold this gun of feminine interests over men?

    Wouldn’t groups of men have to come together to decide this is worth talking about in the first place?

    Women want to be dominated, but they want to choose who gets to dominate them, which means men(and women) will do without.

    The group of the “haves” increasing will only make the rest of the “left-overs” more pissed, no?

  7. What exactly do you mean by “tax dollars go to fund the consequences of women’s legislated rights to Hypergamous choice”?

    Do you mean welfare for single mothers? Paternal child support laws? Overpaid government pink collar jobs? I feel like you are uncharacteristically dancing around the issue instead of explicitly describing the government policies that support the feminine imperative.

  8. Thank you Rollo for taking the time out of your day to help enlighten and offer insight to the Feminine Imperative. Prior to coming to your sight I always ignored or dismissed anything to do with with feminism as it was a complete bore. Now that I’m reading your work its helping to connect the dots. So many dots to connect…

    Without this Red Pill knowledge I would be clueless about the social movements and cultural power shifts that continue reshape our society. You’ve taken a boring topic like feminism and helped me realize that understanding it is absolutely critical. I would call that a seismic shift in my thinking and outlook on life as a man.

    It is a bottoms up approach that must be taken.

  9. @KL
    Think his point was that you can’t totally drop out in the way MGTOW call for. You can’t drop out of life. The FI will touch your life some way, even if it’s where your tax dollars go.

  10. ” A popular meme on Twitter is ‘Feminism is Cancer’, but there’s a kernel of truth to the humor of this. The spread of the westernizing social primacy of the Feminine Imperative is spreading, not unlike cancer, into what we would otherwise believe were societies and cultures still oppressed by the mythical Patriarchy – a belief necessary to perpetuate the narrative of default female victimhood.

    It may not be now, but at some stage, the Feminine Imperative will exercise its presumptive control over even the societies we think ought to be immune from that cancer.”

    Hmmm, well they’re talking about it in their mosques.

  11. This “tactfully” not good at this at all.I was accused of failing sensitivity training,never have even taken it.
    Once at a party i told the lady of the house to be quiet and listen to Bills opinion of whats wrong with todays youth.Her girl friends chin hit the floor then when my wife came over it was why are you with this guy he must have a nice dick.
    Today at breakfast this couple sat at the booth across from my wife and i when considering their drink order he softly said he didn’t like the coffee here i agreed at normal volume his wife shushed me saying i may hurt some feelings,feedback’s good i said.Then the waitress threatnd to write me up i said write me up three times and get it over with.

  12. Divorced many years ago and haven’t dated or engaged in any relationships with any women since. Don’t even let women in my house. Have lived on half my after tax income for the past decade and put the other half in safe investments. On track to retire into great ease in another decade. Don’t miss having a woman in my life whatsoever. Don’t miss sex in the slightest. Good porn and a little lube suit me just fine. Probably had way too much in my teens and twenties anyways. The years without a woman in my home have been the best, most peaceful, most betrayal and angst free of my life.

    Have only one regret: Wish I had had the opportunity to learn of and internalize the MGTOW mindset at a much younger age.

  13. “Men were not evolved to acquiesce their dominant spirit.”

    The red pill have me extreme ownership. Overall all I am and will becoming.

  14. The Feminine Imperative is a passing fad; the Masculine Imperative is a fact of nature:

    In every generation, a greater proportion of females than males pass on their genes, typically 80% vs. 40% when monogamy is not enforced. This means that males are subjected to stronger selection pressure than females, male-specific traits evolve faster than female-specific traits, and genes expressed in both sexes evolve in ways that increase male fertility.

    The FI cannot survive without white-knighting, tax-paying betas, but it does not allow such men to reproduce. A woman honestly thinks that gosh, you’re such a nice guy, surely some girl will fall madly in love with you! (but they won’t, for the same reasons she didn’t)

  15. @Roused

    “You’ve taken a boring topic like feminism and helped me realize that understanding it is absolutely critical. I would call that a seismic shift in my thinking and outlook on life as a man.”

    While I’m not trying intentionally to take any gloss of Rollo’s excellent writing and the OP essay, Ian Ironwood (pseudonymous) has some very non-boring writing about how to understand what Feminism really is and what it really does and how not to tolerate it in real life. Lots of essays re: the harm feminists do for their own at his blog The Red Pill Room from a LTR-Game perspective (with you being intermediate-term relationship).

    Also, Roused, you might appreciate his Red Pill Primer for Boys (at the top of the blog home page) in relation to having a framework in regards to red pill awareness for your son.

    “Prior to coming to your site I always ignored or dismissed anything to do with with feminism as it was a complete bore. “

    Lol, prior to me typing this, my wife was all excited because @this time Beyonce has some new release on TV new album and was all excited to watch it (and catch me in her Frame to come watch it. I’ll pass. Lol, Adele and Beyonce are boring…..). And as I type this I walked in to the kitchen to refresh my beverage and said “So who is this?” she replied “BEYONCE!” with an emphatic sigh.

    I golfed again today with my wife and a wonderful neighbor couple. I’m finding this golf at the country club a great practice for frame control. And great in context game-for-frame my wife’s strong frame–it is her playground and I let her roam. I had many great shots but scored high from the back tees. My wife had few great shots but scored very low from the Fem tees (rehab-ing after a year hiatus from injury).

    And I have to hurry up and calm down my sunburn before tomorrow (tried to wear 50 SPF). (Pro tip three aspirin every four to six hours is the best remedy for un-comfortableness of mild to medium sunburn.)

  16. Shit. Now she’s watching Game of Thrones and Fempowerment is taking over Dorn now. “Weak men will never rule Dorn again”. The women just killed the weak ruling men with knives and swords.

  17. ” . . . they ask men to raise successive generations to accommodate and participate in their own degradation.”

  18. @Matatan- “A big problem is men who have daughters and think they can expect the same from them as from sons. In effect they turn their daughters in the sons they never had and these girls believe in this myth for the rest of their lives.” Yes, I think I have done this to an extent. I’m not a chick, so I can’t teach them to be feminine. The daycare lady is a SAHM but not feminine, and my wife’s job means she is out of the picture a lot.
    What do you mean by these girls believe in this myth?

  19. “There has always been a subtext, a cover story, of equality mentioned in the same breath as feminism. Only the most antagonistic asshole, only the most anti-social prick, would be against “equality between the sexes”. Thus, to be against feminism is to be against a simplistic concept of baseline equality.”

    The problem is that equality is nearly always a ruse. Few people really believe in equality, yet groups with influence will always have an incentive to demand equal rights or outcomes in the circumstances that benefit them.

    In a feminist era, gender equality means that we should acknowledge or celebrate differences between the sexes if they reflect better on women than on men, or can be used to justify special consideration for women in some areas. Yet we should ignore and suppress all differences between the sexes if they reflect worse on women than men, or can be used to justify consideration for men in other areas. It means that we should have state enforced equality of outcome and affirmative action if women are less successful than men in some area, but we should happily tolerate any unequal outcomes that favor women in a host of other areas. It means that if men are more successful than women in some areas, that is automatic proof of continuing societal sexism against women. Yet if women are more successful in other areas, that is proof that women are simply better at those things. Heads I Win. Tails You Lose.

    It never ceases to amaze me how transparently hypocritical feminism is, and yet how seldom they get called on it. Future generations will look back and wonder how people allowed such a bunch of no accounts such influence.

    *I largely agree with Bruce Charlton’s claim that equality is a kind of evil. The fact that equality is invariably invoked as the highest form of good in society today shows how inverted morality actually is.

  20. @stuffinbox, most of my readers know that I condition and retrain retired racing Greyhounds and this puts me in contact with the people who adopt some of my fosters. I notice the hesitancy a lot of people have with commanding a dog to behave in desired ways goes against the idea that we ought to just let the dog be for fear of crushing the poor thing’s spirit.

    Most of what guys like Caesar Milan (a Beta with his ex-wife himself) do is help these poor pussies actually get past the idea that they are the human and thus are the superior being in that relationship. I see this shit all the time, guys unused to commanding anything or anyone and certainly not their wives, much less a pet.

  21. “The Feminine Imperative is a passing fad . . .”

    Because Feminism is a projection of the FI, you are erroneously equating the FI with Feminism.

    Rollo did not make the same mistake in the article. Read it again and note that he said FI when he meant FI, and Feminism when he meant Feminism.

    Feminism will fail (although it may damn well take everything else along for that ride first), but the FI will persist as long as there are females. That’s just the way of sexual reproduction.

  22. @ kfg

    My dad yelled at my mom and then stopped me when I was a little kid.

    I was running around pushing a baby carriage or something. Years later when someone asked him about it he said he didn’t want his son doing shit like that.

    Watching that video makes me think “Thanks dad.”

  23. @kfg,

    Feminism must fail, due to the weight of its own contradictions and unsustainable demands. But moreover, feminism cannot succeed because it is a worldview based on perpetual victimhood and grievance. So by their own definition, they cannot really ever win.

    It’s possible that the destruction caused by feminism will undermine the feminine imperative more broadly. It will serve as a cautionary tale of what happens when society caters to women’s demands and grievances too much.

    Sometimes the only way you can undermine a particular paradigm is to allow it to be taken to its logical extreme, and then people can see the dangers and absurdity of it all. It’s the old give ’em enough rope and let ’em hang themselves approach. Because feminism takes existing cultural biases in favor of females and against males to ridiculous and unsustainable extremes, it may well break the mould completely.

  24. “So by their own definition, they cannot really ever win.”

    Hence they become ever more shrill over ever more trivial issues.

    “It’s the old give ’em enough rope and let ’em hang themselves approach.”

    And if the nooses were only around their own necks I’d be fighting to be first in line to tell ’em “told ya so” as I sipped my coffee and watched ’em kick and strangle.

  25. @ Rollo

    I’ve been thinking about dogs a lot lately. They’re a perfect example of TRP in real-life application.

    It also reminds me of my old boss. He was a total prick. But he was very demanding and always made it clear what he wanted, and got what he wanted, even though he was a complete asshole in the process. He never put up with any shit from anyone, although he took that to an extreme (like giving people shit that weren’t slacking off just for the sake of it or because he was having a bad day, which was basically every day)

    It makes me wonder how many men are turned off of TRP because the self-prioritization mentality it promotes reminds them of abusive fathers, bosses, etc. or other male figures in their lives that have fit the RP schema.

    In reality, that self-prioritization isn’t a bad thing, as everyone here knows. But when you don’t have a solid grasp on it from your own point of origin, and you’re using memories of “Red Pill” men that might’ve been ‘piss poor examples of human beings,’ but their own mental point of origin no less….

    …that can translate to, “Well, then that must mean being my own mental point of origin is a bad thing, because that means I’ll be an asshole just like that guy was to me.”

    Echoing what you said about people being afraid of “breaking the dog’s spirit”:

    One of my friends said that about his dog. Didn’t want to “take her joy out of life” by disciplining her.

    The dog misbehaves pretty extremely as a result of his not training her at all. This is like a pendulum swing from being pretty badly abused as a child (as he was), where he gets the mistaken notion that being strict/firm or taking control means you’re ‘breaking something’s spirit.”

    Jumping all over him and always barking at and trying to jump at strangers by themselves or with their own dogs, never listens to a single word he says or command he gives, etc.

    He knows that her behavior is unacceptable but he continues to do nothing about it consistently enough to make any changes.

    My own father has always been Red Pill as fuck, and it’s a mixed blessing for me. He took “training” me to an extreme, as he saw any emotional reaction on my part as an act of defiance to him, and that led down a years-long path of physical and emotional abuse.

    He wouldn’t even try to explain what I did wrong, or lay any clear boundaries down, and would just get pissed off and react. It felt like he wasn’t trying to actually teach me new behaviors, or condition me to behave better or anything. It was basically just like “I’m angry, fuck off and don’t even think about coming near me”, 5 months go by and nothing changes since then, etc.

    I always felt like my dad was my first experience is “Soft Nexting”, lol. It reminds me of when I pissed him off one time and he literally didn’t talk to me AT ALL or acknowledge my existence at all for months and months. Even when I tried to apologize, or ask him what I did wrong, didn’t matter, no reaction at all, it was like I didn’t exist anymore.

    So this is some of the interesting stuff I have to process, and have been processing lately.

    What is TRP, really? What is being your own mental point of origin, really?

    Sifting through ‘examples’ of RP behavior can be challenging.

    In a lot of ways I feel truly blessed having had a father who raised me in a RP family. King of the castle. Never saw him take any shit from my mom even one time, and many times he made it clear to her that if she wasn’t happy, or didn’t feel like doing what he asked, she could go get a job, leave him and learn how to take care of herself, or whatever.

    Otherwise she could get back to living in a nice house without having to have a job and simply do what he tells her to do when he tells her to do it, e.g. make his breakfasts, make his lunches for work, have dinner ready when he comes home, make his dessert and serve it to him, fetch him whatever he needed from anywhere in the house, and take care of all the normal housecleaning, ironing, etc., all the classics.

    One funny memory I have is when he called her name one time. He didn’t even want anything.

    As soon as she started walking down the stairs and we could both hear her footsteps, he looks at me and says, “See how well trained I have her?”

    Lol.

    It’s always been a mixed bag with my dad but I do feel really lucky to have grown up with RP shit that is, apparently, extremely uncommon in today’s world.

    The ironic part is that I feel like if he spent actual time with me growing up, I could’ve absorbed some of that instead of withdrawing into myself and finding out RP truths here on RM.

    But that’s just the part of me that doesn’t want to put in the work of being more dominant, because that part of me doesn’t feel completely comfortable in that role yet. Even if my dad did directly teach me that and spend time showing me the ropes, I’d still have to be the one to carry it on throughout the rest of my life anyway.

    Lifetime of media conditioning against being masculine/dominant does a number on a guy too. I feel like I’ve been spared from more of that than most people because for years I never turned on a TV and wasn’t exposed to any of that stuff. But even just in casual conversation and public opinion, the FI is everywhere.

  26. Yes sir it is amazing how many people don’t get that a dog,and most people were bred to do a job and are much happier and productive while doing it.
    I was the enforcer in our family, “you better behave or you are going to get it when dad gets home”some times i felt like she was turning them against me,then they all come back one by one thanking me for teaching them real values.
    The best boss i ever had told me how his dad would write a list every morning for each to do and it had better be done and right.
    This to me is really another part of frame,having the objective view of the whole picture making a fluid system and plan then keeping it going.
    The tv or entertainment can be good but it makes a lousy babysitter.

  27. Not to mention the new consent laws being pushed in colleges, of which the ultimate aim is to reduce men’s marriage security even more. The transference of ideas in the university kangaroo courts are advancing at a disturbing pace in effecting marriage law.

    The question is whether or not all the talk about marriage strikes are having any effect. It appears that the forced sexual starvation of beta men is only increasing the appeal for marriage (under the false belief that sexual abundance is finally in his grasp) once women are in their epiphany phase. The women can’t lose and they know this.

    At the end of the day, it is simply the male condition to struggle. We seem to be reaching the bursting point, but male thirst knows no bounds.

    Keep it up betas…and prepare for your dream 30 year old woman.

  28. Matt, doesn’t look like men have an increasing appeal towards marriage.

    Softek, I think if self prioritization turn men off the red pill it’s comes from not being all the way free from nice guy syndrome. And you can include the shallowness guilt trip and the taking advantage guilt trip. Which for many men that need the red pill, seems to be enough to prevent them from putting the red pill in to effect.

  29. @Pinelero,
    What I mean is that as a father you set the expectations that your kids will try to live up to whether you are aware of it or not. If you expect your girl to behave like a boy she will spend her life trying to live up to that expectation. If you expect her to be feminine, she will try to live up to it as well, but of course her mother will have to show her how, you can’t do that. Fathers who set no expectations are negligent in my view, their kids will make many unnecessary mistakes and possibly screw up their lives as a result. Fathers who set misguided expectations create confused children who will become confused adults.

  30. “However, once we reasonably investigate it, we find that China now has a problem with “Yellowed Pearls” as a result of a cultural shift that placed women’s interests as preeminent in that culture. And it should be noted that this shift came about as the direct result of the men who adopted and accommodated the Feminine Imperative as their own.”

    — Rollo, As a RP American who has spent a good amount of time teaching and studying in China, I don’t believe that women’s interests are preeminent in Chinese culture. Most dislike feminists (Chinese women who pursue advanced educations and find good jobs in tier 1 cities), culturally speaking, in this country besides the feminists themselves… and even they feel a large degree of shame. From the government, their parents, their friends, the boys that they can’t date anymore because they are past the wall… they are essentially seen as culturally useless cogs in a capitalist system. It’s a “known” that these women aren’t adding value to a Confucius society as they are not busy making babies and are instead seen as being self centered and materialistic.

    The only group of men that adopts and accommodates the feminine imperative in China is their fathers, and to a greater extent, the men who accept these women into a college and eventually hire them. This is a catch 22. The fathers tell them to get good educations and find good jobs in government, universities, big cities so that way by 23-25 they are somewhat secure and self sufficient. This is seen as some sort of insurance. At the same time, their moms/grandparents/larger family starts putting ample pressure on them to find a boyfriend and settle down. The girl is then required to make a choice, remain independent and self sufficient (become Yellowed Pearls and shame her parents) or settle with a man and loose her independence and freedom (but fulfill her societal duties of raising children and giving her parents grandchildren).

    Don’t think we can necessarily say that men adopted and accommodated feminism, but if anything, allowed capitalism and free markets to open up opportunity and demand for talent and skilled services (which included the need to hire women to meet that demand) that didn’t exist 20 years ago.

    Just some food for thought. Keep up the good articles and books. Always enjoy reading them!

  31. Slightly OT: Rollo, as a designer – what do you think about the “Worse Is Better” VS “The Right Thing” dilemma?

    The MIT guy then muttered that sometimes it takes a tough man to make a tender chicken, but the New Jersey guy didn’t understand (I’m not sure I do either).

    (from: https://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html)

    “Doing the right thing” looks like The Burden of Performance(tm), and may be, as above, considered as an entry condition for “real man” (masculinity). However, this also looks suspiciously Beta, and the “Worse Is Better” crowd stand out as Alpha badboys.

    This also rhymes with the nomad-settler dichotomy (cf. http://yosefk.com/blog/the-nomadic-programmer.html).

    I’m just wondering: (1) if this has any relation to the sexual dynamics, (2) how it relates to design (“Less Is More”?).

  32. Shoe0nHead doing her part to spread the good word:

    Regardless of what you think of Sargon, Armored Skeptic, or some of the weirdos she’s linking, or her intentions or her relationship, she’s sending her viewers out toward other YouTubers who are questioning the narrative and confronting the FI which is what helps people realize there are others that have the same questions they’ve had behind closed doors.

    I said here way back when that Manosphere(MRA? MGTOW? Can’t remember) dude went on the news without his face showing and they tooled him that you can’t beat these people directly, the way to win is to make clear logical concise points that the husband passing by in the background of his wife talking about what a misogynist the speaker is, will hear and think “but they make a good point…” will go to Google and type that guy’s name in or look for more information on what he was talking about and discover this underground pushback.

    A lot of her viewers are going to be people still plugged in and not ready for an hour talk on Hypergamy or Sandman’s robotic rants or to listen to some nasally balding ginger PUA ranting about bar sluts or read my 10 page screeds, but they’re at least going to discover that “hey, those feelings you’ve had that something is “off”? Other people have had that feeling too, and here they are with a bunch of videos articulating the things you’ve been thinking about” and find other YouTubers and blogs and eventually find their way to sites like TRM down the road.

    The big problem, of course, is that those of us who learn about the red pill tend to avoid popping out babies till we’re ready to retire, while Bob Blue Pill is guilted into marriage in his mid-20s and is spitting kids out (or getting secretly cuckolded and raising someone else’s kids) and teaching them Blue Pill shit lol

    Everyone knows I think women in the community hold back progress, but that’s really just women spouting wrong shit (usually solipsistic anecdotes and shit they know will get a rise out of everyone) and holding up and side-tracking actual discussion (like the ones we have drop by here, and I’m still waiting on evidence that Karen was Shoe ’cause I’m skeptical about that). As long as a girl is promoting the right message it’s all good to me. The only reason I entered the Manosphere was to correct shit the big guys were saying when they crossed into territory where they were accidentally misrepresenting PUA stuff or had a misunderstanding of certain concepts. Like 99% of what Rollo talks about I’m cool with, I only push back on certain issues where we disagree. Right now we just need men to get off the plantation, they can be guided down (or discover) healthier paths down the road.

    And the reality is Shoe’s vid has 20k views of random people unplugging or close to unplugging in like one day at the time I’m posting this, and that Hypergamy talk has 2k views of the already converted. Lauren Southern’s vids get 50k views and go viral for 700+k views. Tits help lol Sargon’s regularly getting 150k+ views, these people all grabbed huge audiences from that GamerGate mess and are doing a LOT for helping turn the tide (on the Internet at least). None of US is going to put out videos with our name and face and we aren’t cute girls etc, so these Red Pill Lite YouTubers are important.

    What we need is for Shoe0nHead and Sargon and these people making waves to recommend people grab a copy of Rollo’s books. THAT shit would make a difference. How about shooting some free copies to Shoe & Skeptic (since as a couple if one of them reads it they’re likely to influence the other into reading it) and Sargon (dude is pretty Blue Pill but logical and Rollo’s writing isn’t bitter angry Manosphere dribble) etc.

    I don’t agree with everything these guys say, and I’m sure they think MGTOWs are retarded and make fun of PUAs and shit, but 90% of their message is on point and they’re pointing people down paths that will get them to stumble across solid red pill content that clears those missing parts up.

    And even if those viewers never think Hypergamy is real, they’ll at least know the fucking wage gap is a myth lol

    23k now, just reloaded lol FEMALE PRIVILEGE!!!

  33. oops brain fart not sure if I hit post or not. Rollo delete the first one of these if there’s two lol:

    Shoe0nHead doing her part to spread the good word:

    Regardless of what you think of Sargon, Armored Skeptic, or some of the weirdos she’s linking, or her intentions or her relationship, she’s sending her viewers out toward other YouTubers who are questioning the narrative and confronting the FI which is what helps people realize there are others that have the same questions they’ve had behind closed doors.

    I said here way back when that Manosphere(MRA? MGTOW? Can’t remember) dude went on the news without his face showing and they tooled him that you can’t beat these people directly, the way to win is to make clear logical concise points that the husband passing by in the background of his wife talking about what a misogynist the speaker is, will hear and think “but they make a good point…” will go to Google and type that guy’s name in or look for more information on what he was talking about and discover this underground pushback.

    A lot of her viewers are going to be people still plugged in and not ready for an hour talk on Hypergamy or Sandman’s robotic rants or to listen to some nasally balding ginger PUA ranting about bar sluts or read my 10 page screeds, but they’re at least going to discover that “hey, those feelings you’ve had that something is “off”? Other people have had that feeling too, and here they are with a bunch of videos articulating the things you’ve been thinking about” and find other YouTubers and blogs and eventually find their way to sites like TRM down the road.

    The big problem, of course, is that those of us who learn about the red pill tend to avoid popping out babies till we’re ready to retire, while Bob Blue Pill is guilted into marriage in his mid-20s and is spitting kids out (or getting secretly cuckolded and raising someone else’s kids) and teaching them Blue Pill shit lol

    Everyone knows I think women in the community hold back progress, but that’s really just women spouting wrong shit (usually solipsistic anecdotes and shit they know will get a rise out of everyone) and holding up and side-tracking actual discussion (like the ones we have drop by here, and I’m still waiting on evidence that Karen was Shoe ’cause I’m skeptical about that). As long as a girl is promoting the right message it’s all good to me. The only reason I entered the Manosphere was to correct shit the big guys were saying when they crossed into territory where they were accidentally misrepresenting PUA stuff or had a misunderstanding of certain concepts. Like 99% of what Rollo talks about I’m cool with, I only push back on certain issues where we disagree. Right now we just need men to get off the plantation, they can be guided down (or discover) healthier paths down the road.

    And the reality is Shoe’s vid has 20k views of random people unplugging or close to unplugging in like one day at the time I’m posting this, and that Hypergamy talk has 2k views of the already converted. Lauren Southern’s vids get 50k views and go viral for 700+k views. Tits help lol Sargon’s regularly getting 150k+ views, these people all grabbed huge audiences from that GamerGate mess and are doing a LOT for helping turn the tide (on the Internet at least) especially in the younger upcoming generation that doesn’t want to listen to us old fucks whining. None of US is going to put out videos with our name and face and we aren’t cute girls etc, so these Red Pill Lite YouTubers are important.

    What we need is for Shoe0nHead and Sargon and these people making waves to recommend people grab a copy of Rollo’s books. THAT shit would make a difference. How about shooting some free copies to Shoe & Skeptic (since as a couple if one of them reads it they’re likely to influence the other into reading it) and Sargon (dude is pretty Blue Pill but logical and Rollo’s writing isn’t bitter angry Manosphere dribble) etc.

    I don’t agree with everything these guys say, and I’m sure they think MGTOWs are retarded and make fun of PUAs and shit, but 90% of their message is on point and they’re pointing people down paths that will get them to stumble across solid red pill content that clears those missing parts up.

    And even if those viewers never think Hypergamy is real, they’ll at least know the fucking wage gap is a myth lol

    23k now, just reloaded lol FEMALE PRIVILEGE!!!

  34. It’s not just female tendencies, but also the socialist mind-virus and government authoritarianism. These processes will have to be tested at a large scale at enormous cost, and it’s best to just stay out of the way. You say the MGTOWs might be unable to avoid contributions like tax, but a “keeper of the faith” will likely be contributing a lot more, and the net result will probably be more degeneracy than virtue

  35. It means that if men are more successful than women in some areas, that is automatic proof of continuing societal sexism against women. Yet if women are more successful in other areas, that is proof that women are simply better at those things. Heads I Win. Tails You Lose.

    It rests on lumping all men together, really. As long as men hold more positions of true power (government, business execs, film directors/producers, etc.), women will be seen as being disadvantaged overall vis-a-vis men in general, regardless of what conditions are like beneath that top tier set of men. So until the conditions at the very top of the ladder become egalitarian (which they won’t, for reasons all of us know, unless it’s done in a ham-fisted way like the Nordic countries have done in part), talk about whatever advantages women have below that level is out of bounds. All they need to do is point upward at all the men in positions of power and they win the argument, if the argument is based on egalitarianism. As long as the situation perpetuates itself (again, it likely will, due to very different life goals and ambition, at the extreme levels, between men and women), it creates an eternal grievance machine, and one which justifies on-going, permanent grievance, despite the fact that everywhere below the highest level, the situation looks very different. It’s the perfect set-up for a literally endless campaign based on grievance.

    What I mean is that as a father you set the expectations that your kids will try to live up to whether you are aware of it or not. If you expect your girl to behave like a boy she will spend her life trying to live up to that expectation.

    What I have observed is that this is most common in men who have daughter(s) but not any son(s). What can happen is that the father, lacking a son, wants the daughter(s) to be both daughters and sons to him, so they he encourages behaviors which would more typically be father/son behavior, and thereby masculinizes his daughter(s) somewhat. There are many ways this can take place, but it often involves placing a significant emphasis on cultivating a competitive mindset rather than a compliant one.

  36. Looking back i lost frame first going into recovery,trying to make amends in an improper manner.Then second gave it away completely in my wife’s recovery from a near fatal illness.

    The first person to mention the thing with the dogs was a woman.The Chiefs wife has been a dog groomer for 40 years,she and i became friends while i worked on their home.At an awards dinner my wife and i sat at their table,the Chiefs wife was picking up on my wife’s subcom’s she started explaining that the dogs need something to do and will love you for giving them a purpose.At the time i really couldn’t believe my ears,this coming from a woman,and truthfully things didn’t fall back into place for us until i started reading this RM blog.

    I have to reserve judgment on most folks,there is so much misinformation today,the victim mentality has gone way out to left field,the road to recovery involves responsibility and proper knowledge.

  37. Hi Rollo,

    You seem to have missed this post of mine regarding the possible translation of your books to my native language on the “Year One” page, so I copy it here. Can you please reply? Thanks!

    I’m a dedicated follower of the Rational Male blog for cca 1 year now and I’ve got your paperbacks as well. Your insights have completely changed my life… for the better, and I’ve directed several friends to your site for advice too. But, unfortunately, not all of them speaks english well enough to be able to read your articles.
    So I’m thinking about translating your books to my native language. I’m a good and experienced translator, I’ve translated professional texts as well as literature. I have MA in philosophy but I work in the IT industry now. I’m quite educated in psychology too.
    How could we start a private discussion about the possibility of translating your books to my native language and publishing it as an e-book, for example? (I don’t think it’d make sense to publish it in paperback form, as my language is spoken only by cca 15M people worldwide.)

    Regards,
    NoMoreMrNiceGuy

  38. Fucking hard lolz:

    The Red Pill subreddit makes subreddit of the day and mass triggering ensues. So much salt.

    With beautiful timing too, with their theory weekend, the whole frontpage of it is all just sage wisdom and classic articles from Rollo etc

  39. @Novaseeker,

    You are right of course. Apex fallacy and all that. Feminism is basically a movement that seeks to punish 99% of men for the advantages enjoyed by the top 1% of men (while simultaneously complaining of the injustice that women in general do not enjoy the benefits enjoyed by the highest SMV women, the youngest and most beautiful etc.). If it wasn’t for double standards, they would have none.

    The idea that the over representation of men at the very top of the pyramid proves that society is systematically biased in favor of men in general has always been nonsense. The over representation of men at the very top is due to greater genetic variation in males, greater social pressure on males to succeed etc. Moreover, most men at the top of the power structure are to some extent dependent on currying favor with women more generally in order to keep their positions.

    As you point out, the whole raison d’etre of feminism is to create a rigged definition of gender equality that can always be used to show that men are somehow still more advantaged, and use this to fuel an endless grievance and spoils machine. Because they can always squeal “wage gap” or “glass ceiling”, no matter how much policies are implemented to further privilege women in a raft of areas of society.

  40. It seems to me that the spread of the FI is intertwined with the spread of westernized capitalism. They continually reinforce each other. Consumerism, capitalism, feminism, social conditioning… It’s a feedback loop. Drop any random person into a mall in China and they would hardly be able to tell they weren’t in New Jersey. And people fucking LOVE malls over there. They’ve completely bought into the whole consumerism trick. All the plebes working in the factories have smart phones. Hong Kong has basically turned into one huge shopping mall/amusement park for the rich mainland people.

    The reality is that strong independent women with disposable income is good for capitalism. Girls like to shop. And it isn’t going to stop until the whole world is westernized. There’s an inconvenient truth to chew on.

  41. And for every guy to voluntarilly go celebate and “refuse to deal with women” I’ll show you a man whose tax dollars go to fund the consequences of women’s legislated rights to Hypergamous choice.

    Good article, but this one’s a bit spurious. This is not the only dimension of life where one pays taxes for other people’s benefits.

  42. One interesting way to look at second-stage feminism is as an artifact of the Cold War. The Soviets funded lots of western progressive movements, including feminist movements. If you do some digging, you can find that almost all progressive movements had Soviet/have Russian backing. Of course, the Russians retain all the espionage rings that the Soviets built up. The Russians are not our friends, though our propaganda doesn’t paint them as hostile to us. The Soviets took their failed social experiments and pawned them off on us, attempting to weaken our society.

    Isn’t it funny that almost all societies where feminism is dominant were once enemies of the Soviets?

  43. “If it wasn’t for double standards, they would have none.”

    They have a primary rule: It’s about power.
    They have a primary standard: They win.

    Everything else is corollary to those. They aren’t interested in being fair, they are interested in winning power. From that framework their apparent double standards are simply a tactic they employ for the simple reason that – it works.

    ” . . .the whole raison d’etre of feminism is to create a rigged definition of gender equality that can always be used to show that men are somehow still more advantaged . . .”

    Q.E.D.

  44. I noticed the same cock carousel stuff in Seoul, Busan, Hong Kong and Shanghai so expatriating starts to be out of question.

    I can always work in construction where 95% of workers are male and only hangout with male friends to escape this shit.

    The problem is that I need to find some way of avoiding taxes. Finland has the third highest tax rate in the world and social sector is made up of single mums, somali “refugees” and bullshit government jobs for women.

    Apparently to escape femprimary social order theres two choices; Suicide or survivalism.

  45. When I discuss with such people, my starting argument is that universal suffrage democracy is illegitimate anyway. It’s funny asking them why should you believe in equality because all you’ll get is horror. Imo, fuck equality.

    By the way, people changing what they believe happens once you change institutions and their message, which can only be done once you’re in power. There’s a reason why Americuckism spread in western Europe only after the American occupation. John Gaventa’s theory of power applied here on something else is valid for feminine imperative too:
    http://conswede.blogspot.se/2009/05/discussion-about-future-scenarios-part.html
    If you want social change, you need to create institutions that facilitate it and for that you need power.

  46. @Rollo et al
    “Dalrock had a post detailing the sentiment of feminists that feminism would be a success if only men would cooperate with the ideology by abandoning their own interests and sublimating their own biological impulses. The fact remains that feminism and egalitarianism are failed ideologies because at the root level those ideologies ask men to participate in their own extinction. Not only this, but they ask men to raise successive generations to accommodate and participate in their own degradation.”

    I am reminded of an army commander who once worked with a firm I was involved with, he was brought in to help design a strategy for the introduction of this radio service into our market. Great guy to work with. He said something I will never forget which seems relevant in terms of the FI vs men.

    “To win, you must deny the enemy the will to fight”.

    Presumably it’s a Sun Tzu Quote but I always ascribe it to him.

    Simply put it makes me feel like the matrix / FI is sort of at this stage in contemporary culture. So many men are in the dark they don’t even realize there is a fight and even if they did, it’s difficult to see the point in fighting it.

    Of course I don’t agree, I have a will to fight, but like Sun Tzu, you must choose your place to fight wisely. For my part I subscribe to the bottoms up strategy of simply living life well according to RP standards. Needless to say I will propagate this to my son and daughter and deprive the FI of two more victims. When I encounter meek Beta’s seeking their wives “permission” for this or that, I subtly shame them and let them know they have agency that they are not accessing, I leave them with open ended questions amplified by seeing me do what I want when I want etc. They are left wondering what I am doing differently from them which allows me this freedom that seems to elude them. The smarter ones start asking questions….

  47. One of the traps of the manosphere, and the internet in general (in the sense of politics/ideology/social issues) is that we can get an inflated sense of our importance or relevance. Even worse, just as the left has already done, we can retreat into spaces in which we only hear the opinions and analysis that we agree with a priori.

    Perhaps what is most destructive about this is that it presents us with the false notion that we are doing something about the issues we face. I see this on the political right all the time. “Webtivism” is an illusion, and a dangerous one. Some of us have realized that the intellectual leadership on the right has fallen into this trap deeply, believing that writing another pearl-clutching article or analyzing the latest outrageous predation by the left is somehow “doing something” about the issues. We call such people “cuck-servatives”. Fyi, using that term can get you banned from sites like National Review, lol. Too funny. What we mean when we use that term is that these supposed leaders have stood by and watched while the Left actually took political power, and overran every institution of our society

    Our political leaders are no better. What we see is that they are slaves to the status quo and since the leftists keep nudging the status quo to the left, they are essentially boiling frogs. As well, the advent of career politicians dominating our political bodies means their own interests for self-preservation are always going to prevail over pursuing any notion of the public good.

    My point? We aren’t losing the battle to the left, we’ve already lost. What we are witnessing now is a consolidation of their gains and the implementation of their vision. You can only understand Feminism in this context. If you don’t get this, ask yourself why feminism only goes completely batshit when “intersectionalism” becomes all the rage? Feminism has run utterly amok now due to its “allies” and the agreement by the left to use its political powers in service to feminism.

    This is why I giggle when I hear men – even on this thread – talking about how feminism is failing, or will fail. Really? Or that there is some kind of meaningful backlash? Such people note the fact that only 20% of western women call themselves feminists as evidence, lol. Uhh, what pct of Germans were Nazis? 7-10%. How many Chinese are members of the Communist party? 70 million (out of 1.7 billion or more people).

    What such people seem to utterly miss is that what matters in society is what the “elites” think. Progressive-Marxists Social Justice oriented values and political ideals are firmly ensconced in every institution of our society now. From the military to govt. to newsmedia to arts of most sorts, they have won. In fact, it’s a rout. They have run the field.

    Most traditional people and right wingers have been spectators while this occurred, running our own lives in the private sector and in the private sphere of society. We had a tacit bargain with radicals in universities and elsewhere. As long as you don’t really change my life much, I won’t bother you. So we let radical Marxists take over the humanities – oh well, doesn’t really change our lives much, right? We slept while the Prog-Marxists infiltrated the administration of govt – at the federal level, 85% of govt employees are Democrats. We shrugged as male teachers were run out of primary education entirely. As an aside, a little factoid about that awful shooting at Sandy Hook? Out of 420 people in that school, there wasn’t a single man between 18-65 on the premises. A male primary public school teacher is like an albino alligator. Secondary schools are going the same way, in public schools. Private schools still have more male teachers – as that’s where most of them have fled to, but just look at the curriculum of those schools – Prog-Marxist to its core.

    The only question worth asking is what to do? What can we do? Politics is not a solution. Via immigration and by building factional coalitions driven by the cheapest politics of hate and envy, the left has built a national political majority. Many rightwingers cling to the fact that the right holds a lot of power at the state level, but in fact miss how the left is using immigration and refugee resettlement and hardcore political organizing to overtake the right in each state. They’ve already won up here in New Hampshire where I live. We are not like a mini Vermont, going for Bernie and Kasich. Texas isn’t far away from flipping. Also, states rely utterly on federal money, and are controlled by the feds in large ways so its less important than you think.

    In other words, we have no chance to change things via politics. Get that. If you get the idea from watching YouTube channels and reading blogs (mostly run anonymously due to fear of damning social and economic consequences) that there is some counter-movement that has any real power, you are kidding yourselves. Also, don’t conflate the anti-immigration movement of Pegida or Trump with anti-feminism/anti-sjw politics. We may deal with immigration differently, but it will have no impact on the SJW Prog-Marxist hold on real power. It will merely be a setback – if these forces actually gain any real power at all.

    The only choice on a society-wide level is the use of force – rebellion/revolution, but I’m not at all convinced that such a movement could win. Try and really get that. If politics won’t work – and they won’t – what are you left with? I’m not encouraging revolution, I’m merely making clear the terrain in which we find ourselves. I used to think that a revolutionary movement might be able to bring in our military and police but over the past 10 years I’ve watched them be cleansed of all those who don’t go along with the Prog-Marxists.

    So, what are we left with, in terms of actual action we can take that has real effect? Our personal lives. Our inner world, and I think in a real way this is the most important battle. The level of social conditioning we are subjected to now is simply unprecedented. To walk around in this world as a male is to feel like a failure, to feel like a defective, to feel subjugated. The Rational Male is nothing if not a screeching howl, a febrile scream, a cry in this dark night to men regarding this ongoing insult and injury. Just overcoming this conditioning and reclaiming a semblance of healthy, empowered masculinity is a huge task for each of us.

    But don’t kid yourself. We are a grain of sand on a beach. The forces arrayed against us are overwhelming and taking ground on every front, every day. The very fact of the absurdity of their positions and ideas is proof of their power. They can get away with anything – over time. Remember, in the U.S., they broke the limitations on the power of govt our founders put in place back in 1938. Everything we are experiencing now was designed and contemplated and instrumentalized by Prog-Marxists. They are only more encouraged by every vile offense they get away with.

    Don’t be confused and essentially LARP online and feel like we are in the vanguard of some counter-movement or a sizable backlash. Don’t let our tiny little corner of this world kid you – we are losing, and losing badly. They are winning and are accelerating. In the U.S., we just elected a Marxist as POTUS for two terms. We are about to elect the most venal, corrupt, shitbag hack politician for POTUS – Hillary. Those of you who think Trump can win are absurdly stupid. You ignore polling which shows Hillary destroying Trump, or think the Obama DOJ will indict her, lol. I mean, wake up. Hillary will destroy Trump nationally. Or Cruz for that matter. There is a reason Kasich is the only one who has a chance to beat Hillary – he has capitulated to the Prog-Marxists already. He’s of the left in ideology and policy. Let that sink in. We can’t win nationally. Demographics are destiny and those of us who opposed these maniacs are in a shrinking minority.

    So, how is a man to be happy in such a situation? Easy. Ask yourself a simple question: Why shouldn’t you live in a society in decline? Why shouldn’t we lose? Why not us? Why not me? Where do I get this idea that I shouldn’t live in a batshit society? Most humans live in ridiculous political and social conditions. In fact, that is the norm. So, be philosophical about it. Adam Smith once said, “There is much ruin in a nation.” It’s nothing new. I’ll close with a poem I may have posted another time here, it’s worth revisiting and re-reading from time to time.

    The Second Coming
    BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS 1919

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

  48. Theasdgamer, the reason why former anti-Soviet areas suffer is American cultural exports following the American occupation of Europe. The soviets didn’t even exist when these social experiments started in the West and if you’d bother to research the history of these ideas, you’d see that what you’re doing is the typical jingoist thing of finding scapegoats as rationalizations for all the blunders of your own country/culture.

    “though our propaganda doesn’t paint them as hostile to us. ”
    Roflmao. Yes, Russia isn’t portrayed as some imperialistic vulture tearing off land from other countries, whose president assassinates political rivals and who doesn’t respect freedom of speech(for implementing the same ngo legislation America has). This explains your crap understanding of history: you’re delusional about the present also.

  49. Scribblerg

    excellent post… A few other thoughts

    Feminism is merely the grease on the skids of equalism… that is the overarching goal, One World Order [no black helicopters!] – one government, one race. Butcept it wont be equal for all… it will be a global Brazil… enjoy your time in the favelas.

    Hell it all looks beautiful… from a distance…

    The right as the useful tools of the Left… Manchurian Candidate had it right… That is one of the amazing things about all of this, NOTHING is hidden. It was always out there, just unbelievable, [1984, Animal Farm, etc etc.] unthinkable or just too exhausting to contemplate [80/20 rule?]…

    On this “Those of you who think Trump can win are absurdly stupid. You ignore polling which shows Hillary destroying Trump,” well we will see… Don’t watch what women say, watch what they do… Alpha and Beta are real as are women’s hindbrain reactions to Alpha… when alone in the voting booth… well it may “just happen” all the same for The Donald [dear diary… I never thought i would ever be “one of those girls” but last night…].

    The battle now going forward on all fronts is not right v left it is Alpha v Beta, RP v BP… Alpha is the only force left that can revive the Patriarchy, it is the only force that can keep hypergamy in check, feminism in check and equalism in check…

    But your right on the national/state political front, even a TRUMP win will not do much but slow the decline… one thing though, it could, possibly, a little bit awaken a larger number of BP men.. and in that small remnant can make some changes…

    But the changes must be local… First the dinner table, then the pew, then the classroom… take these back RP men.

    So, how is a man to be happy in such a situation? Easy.

    well easy in theory hard in practice… Pursuing The Platinum Rule will go along way here [do whatever YOU want to do whenever YOU want to do it]… that and “poolside” insouciance in the meantime…

  50. @Scrib
    Per your recommendation last week I read Coming Apart by Charles Murray, great book, thanks for the recommendation. Obviously insightful on many levels.
    If we follow his basic thesis we have the narrow elite and the broader elite, they are cocooning themselves off geographically etc. They are utterly disconnected from the lower classes in cultural terms. Fine, OK I get that.

    If I were to strategize broadly I don’t disagree with your idea that the battles may be continuing but the war is already lost with Prog-Marxists. So it seems the logical extension of this as you say is that they are consolidating their wins, they are marching ever more briskly towards their never ending goals and not much is standing in their way. To me it seems to be the recipe for over reach and hubris which we are regularly seeing all around us from the ground level up to the governmental level.

    Now I look at this and consider my own circumstances, where I happen to be say in the 3% in my country, I am part of the broader elite as defined by Murray, I am well off enough to geographically separate myself and I am part of the “Creative class”. So what am I saying? I am saying I get to move in those circles and hang with those people who constitute the narrow elite in my country, the ones who assemble and shape the cultural narrative of our country, the ones who finance pretty much everything, the one’s who can be called political leaders. To me, perhaps it’s simply a matter of convenience, that the effort can be applied in that milleu to much greater effect than it can be from the bottom up in many regards. I know this flies in the face of what I just said above but its not entirely incongruent.

    My point is to make a dent in culture has a lot more leverage when it is done at the elite level. Sure there are many factors pushing back against it but this is true at all levels of society. Even within an elite there is still plenty of range of views and expressions of thoughts. There are lots of ways to influence the next generations of elite also as much as anything by being countercultural today. Counterculture always sells with youth, and there is such an excess of prog-marx bullshit identitarian political bullshit today that any youth stands out as countercultural by actually being “conservative” in their values and personal expression. My point being that at an elite level you can use Alinsky against Alinsky by subtley supporting a counter revolution amongst the youth. Make it cool to be iconoclastic and reject the prog-marx bullshit. Make being smart cool, oh wait that already happened with Nerds, make it fun ripping apart other identities who are overflowing with contradictions.

    I don’t imagine a war can be won this way any time soon, but I do imagine a core cultural approach can be kept intact, raised, supported and slowly grown that can hold an RP core. The UC/ UMC already does this by its own selective breeding etc through colleges and clubs. Murray’s thesis is that this group is going to keep getting smarter and smarter. To me that is a good thing as sooner or later the smart ones have to kind of drink the evo-bio Koolaid as it’s just going to keep coming and coming. Leftism is always bashing the right over the head with “It’s science stupid”, well those tables are going to eventually turn with the traditionalists being able to bash the prog-marxists over the head with “It’s science stupid”. It’s also common sense.

    Perhaps I am too optimistic and in reality even while the Elite may know how things “actually work” they will have no incentive to let this trickle down to the masses.

    But I am also encouraged that capitalism can actually ultimately help as well. Take the manufacture of culture for example. If indeed the manufacturing of culture is a capitalist enterprise then there will always be outliers who aim to differentiate themselves from the common market to try and gain purchase in that market. To that extent we will see players work cultural strategies and products that are “countercultural” if only to gain a market advantage. Sure shit will rain down on them from the FI, but like Trump, that only serves their PR needs by getting lots of press.

    My point being that I see a pendulum that sooner or later will be forced back to the middle by the forces of gravity that can no longer allow the prog-marxists to keep going endlessly to the left, culturally or legally. It will be ugly, culture will lead, politics will follow, and many years later laws will follow, or, we’ll not make it that far and things will implode. perhaps the EU will implode first and become a cautionary tale of far left socialist / entitlement state politics that could serve as a wake up call for what will remain of the West to reform itself, perhaps it will all be too late and the West will simply self immolate. Unless the elite get burned, eaten, or re-educated, I see them always managing to survive and that’s why if I were to be able to apply leverage anywhere it would be there, as close as possible to the levers of power. There is always someone ready and waiting to knock off those currently in power and those are the people who need to be formed and shaped to be able to nudge the pendulum back the other way.
    Ramble over.

  51. @ Old

    The Soviets tried second-stage feminism first. Pay attention to the details of what I wrote. There’s no question that the Soviets funded feminist movements in the 60s or that the Russians continue to influence feminist movements.

    The Russians are depicted as locally-imperialistic assassins who restrict speech in Russia. None of that necessarily means that they are hostile to the U.S.

    You should have stronger arguments before you attempt to be dismissive of someone else’s.

  52. Re: Asd – Denial isn’t a river in Egypt and brio isn’t a strategy. Nor is hope. First rule of war is to understand the terrain and situation in which you find yourself. Then you analyze your enemy – their tactics, strategy, positions they hold and the forces they have arrayed against you. Attitude is meaningless in that analysis. Of course, once you’ve decided to undertake a fight with an actual winning strategy and the forces required to win, then morale and and a winning attitude are crucial.

    But in our situation? Believing that you are fighting at all and denying that we have been overrun is simply mental masturbation. Which is what many men in the manosphere are doing in the first place…Wake the fuck up.

    Pop Quiz: Name an institution in our society that hasn’t been overtaken by the Prog-Marxists and their values and politics. I dare you to come up with one. Of course, you can’t, but hey, that doesn’t mean you’ll stop seeing yourself as some brave revolutionary, fighting the good fight, right? Lol.

    @ASD – How about you start by sharing your real name and personal details with us? Lol, the denial here is so strong. Many of you think you are fighting when you can’t even share your real names and identity for fear of losing your jobs, social standing and also risk the rage of your wives/daughters etc, while feminists announce themselves boldly all across our society, without the slightest fear of recrimination. ASD – You are cowering in the dark, beaten and afraid and you don’t even realize it. Wake the fuck up.

  53. Awareness does indeed seem to be growing. The Red Pill subreddit has gone from zero to 150,000 subscribers in only four years. Just a drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things. But still, pretty impressive growth for such a “reviled” set of ideas.

  54. Trust me, I get that I’m just one Man. I can write books. I can encourage men to read and share them, I can make them as accessible as I’m allowed to via the resources available to me. But I’m just one Man.

    I have almost 7K followers on Twitter, that’s next to nothing. Sam Botta has 151K. Even still this is a fraction of the audience of the mainstream femosphere. And even still I feel like I’m the messenger for a larger message that needs to get out there. Together we are exponential.

    It has to start somewhere, it has to start sometime. What better place than here? What better time than now? I fully expect that within the next 15-20 years my work, while foundational to the Red Pill, will be replaced by another voice and I’ll embrace it when the time comes.

  55. @ scrib

    I agree that feminism has a tremendous positional advantage currently. That is irrelevant to our will to fight, which Agent P pointed out is the mark of whether a group has lost.

    I continue to find that men are more and more aware of social problems and are Red Pill aware. Technological changes (especially internet) have weakened feminism’s positional advantage. There are reasons to be encouraged.

  56. @Agent P – Thoughtful commentary and I’m really glad you took the reco on Murray’s Coming Apart. I’m not going to try and take your analysis and ideas apart bit by bit but rather make a point that you should consider. Minorities who oppose the elites always exists. Subversives in the elite always exist. The mere fact that there is a counter-movement is not unusual or even notable. It’s to be expected.

    Keep this in mind too. I roll in the same circles as you – or did for a long time but have removed myself consciously from them. I do so for my business now but that’s it, not socially. Do you not have to keep many of your views and ideas to yourself? Do you not have to be very careful about what you say and do? As an alpha of sorts, I can get away with transgressive behavior at times but it’s the exception always.

    There is a larger bore driver going on as well. Democracies always die for the same reason. The people figure out how to vote themselves rights and goodies which transgress against their fellow citizens. Factionalism sets in, which in many ways was the number one issue our founders sought to address via our constitution and the republic it called into being. The founders were reeling from the problems of the Articles of Confederation, which had seen more direct democracies in a number of states vote in pernicious restrictions on trade to favor local producers, or even things like debtor relief, to the point where creditors couldn’t enforce contracts.

    The republic the U.S. used to be was designed based on the lessons of the great thinkers through time, tempered by Rome and Greece and English and other experiments and experiences with democracy. It was thought our structure of govt, and the innate slowness of change it was designed to enforce and the restrictions on govt’s power would neuter the voracious appetite of the masses – who our founders were rightly suspicious of. But the left succeeded in stripping away the limits on govt, changed the very nature of our different governing institutions by the popular election of senators and many other moves, and embraced a raw, ugly factionalism which is their core political strategy.

    All nations fall. Thomas Jefferson claimed no nation should go more than 150 yrs without a revolution. Seems we are overdue. This govt and society is utterly unsustainable. But, be warned, such a huge edifice as the U.S. can creak along for a long time. I’m reading a great history of the decline and fall of the Roman empire (Gibbons, a yr long project, 3k pages) and what you see is corrupt, craven, demagogues ruling the a devolving populace. At our stage of decline, only the craven and corrupt have a chance at ruling. The last non scumbag to be elected POTUS in the U.S. was Eisenehower, and really, that was only due to his war record. Before that it may have been Coolidge and then before that Grant. We have been circling the bowl for a while.

    And as I like to point out, a pickle cannot become a cucumber again. Our fall is already assured but the timing and shape of it all is impossible to predict. That said, we are on the brink of an epic global economic/financial/monetary breakdown that could being at any moment. Part of me is cheering it on because my belief is that he current system needs to be reduced to ashes before there is a chance to create something worth creating…

  57. @SJF

    Lol, prior to me typing this, my wife was all excited because @this time Beyonce has some new release on TV new album and was all excited to watch it (and catch me in her Frame to come watch it. I’ll pass. Lol, Adele and Beyonce are boring…..). And as I type this I walked in to the kitchen to refresh my beverage and said “So who is this?” she replied “BEYONCE!” with an emphatic sigh.

    This is actually very important as male infidelity is now in the crosshairs of fempowerment. Beyoncé:

    “so what are you gonna say at my funeral now that you’ve killed me? Here lies the body of the love of my life whose heart I broke without a gun to my head. Here lies the mother of my children both living and dead. Rest in peace my true love, who I took for granted. Most bomb pussy, who because of me sleep evaded. Her shroud is loneliness, her god was listening. Her heaven will be a love without betrayal. Ashes to ashes, dust to side chicks.”

    The side chick has already been identified and she has been targeted. The question is can an alpha like Jay-Z be allowed to roam free by the FI?

  58. @YaReally: also laughed hard at TRP making subreddit of the day, thanks. Like you say, masterful timing with the Theory weekend, there weren’t even many crappy posts around that would be easier to attack.

    OK, my first EPIC FR (it is probably epic in length only). I’m going to split these across posts. I use [] for specific questions I have. Weirdest bit is point 7. of the Night.

    Setting: Uni Sports event whole day, then after party (with food) at a Club.

    I must have mild one-itis for a girl as I like being around her more than the others. I sat next to her at a party months ago and decided I was going to practice eye contact [backfired?]. She “slow blinked” [meaning she raised her eyelids slowly – girl game?] when I lasered her, which was super effective on me and then she goes and tops it off by giving me a lift home at the end [Lift Girl, LG].

    During this day spent much the time with LG or the Foreigner Girls [FG1 to FG4 – the FGs were usually together]. But I was mindful to move around a lot and not just stick to the FGs or to LG.

    Now LG mentioned having a foreigner bf a while ago and said he was coming to the event. I said I would chat him up in his mother tongue a little bit and she said “Cool, he would like that” (seemed genuine). If he did come, I didn’t see him. LG used her phone once in a while, probably texting him. [Obviously I care too much. Advice?].

    Anyway, I opened more than I ever did throughout the day. Notable situations that I remember below

    1. Opened mixed set of 2 or 3 girls and 1 guy sitting at the far end of the hall, all wearing red shirts (I guessed must be their Uni color). I was wearing the same color so I walk all the way to them and go “I approve your use of red. Which Uni are you from?”. One of the girls replies. And I smile and go “Cool. Have fun!”. And go back.

    In hindsight, I should have sat down with the Ladies in Red [LiRs], openly nicknamed them as such right there, chatted them up more, asked if they were going to the after party and timebridged by saying something dominant like “You will see me there, bye.” [Is this better than “I will see you there”?]

    2. One of the other guys from our Uni noticed my ring and goes really loudly “IAS, you’re married??? Since when?” I just laughed and said I’ve been wearing the ring all the time – he just didn’t notice because he isn’t interested [From a previous club outing with him, I think he is a natural that likes to spread value so I don’t think he was AMOGing me, but as I’m posting I ask because some years ago I had a girl pull off something similar even though I wear my ring all the time. How should I interpret and possibly DHV in situations like this?]

    3. I passed by a mixed set with 2 or 3 girls and 1 guy, knew from their clothes which Uni they were from. Opened them asking why that city had such high rents. The guy actually engaged and we discussed a couple of possible reasons briefly, but I think the girls were a bit cold [Should have tried something more interesting].

    4. Got FG2 to record my rounds with my tablet. I was rather happy with my performance which of course really helps get in state. Not long after, the FGs asked me to take picture of them together in sporting gear.

    5. Two friends of FGs (FG5, FG6) showed up briefly at different times during the day to see the FGs. FG5 actually had shown up before at another Sports event so I chatted a bit with her again. She was wearing a stylish long coat which really stood out in the middle of all the sporting gear. The long coat had wide pockets and I had my tablet. I placed it next to her pocket, she notices and says “Yeah, it would probably fit in” [OMG, I only noticed the TWSS moment as I’m writing]. I look at her, say nothing, and slip my tablet into her pocket, then tell her “Now don’t run away with it!”. After a bit she starts to move and I go to tell her “Also, don’t do a hand stand” but in fact just as I started she takes out the tablet to give it back as she is leaving.

    6. Afternoon, was eating some peanuts while sitting next to LG. After offering them to another girl passing by (who didn’t want any) offered to LG. She approached me, I warned her they were quite salty. She took some and said “It’s cool, I like salty nuts”. I think it was completely innocent, but TWSS just flashed in my mind. I managed not to react outwardly [What are my options in this kind of situation?].

    7. Noticed LG didn’t have tats [I like that she doesn’t] and asked her about it. She goes “Yes, I’m a little girl”. [Again, options for this kind of situation?]

    8. LG is stressed waiting for her round. I get something shiny from my pocket, show it to her and ask if she wants to squeeze it to relax. [Yes, I get it, more innuendo opportunity]. She goes “Ooh yeah” but actually wants to play with it which wouldn’t work well – I show her why. She goes “It’s ok, I can just squeeze my leg fat” and squeezes one of her calves. I look at her calf “You have leg fat?” and she goes “Yep” and jiggles it a little while I’m looking “Indeed you do”. [I should at the very least poked her calf here].

    It is clear to me that as the day went on I found it harder not to stick around LG. I think this was because I knew she wasn’t going to the club.

  59. Marxists, leftists, socialists! Oh My!

    There’s no way that your precious free-market capitalism could have ANY influence on our present situation huh? Explain to me why this logic doesn’t work…

    America becomes the home of laissez-faire capitalism. There’s huge economic growth, assembly lines, all this land, middle class with spending power and gigantic global corporations. What do we do with our spending money? Show off our status. Build bigger homes on the fanciest streets, fill them with furniture and art. Then technology takes off, and we have all these appliances to make our lives easier AND entertaining. Mass media is created. Newspapers, radio, tv, internet. Perfect for marketing the appliances to make our lives easier. Washing machines, dish washers, electric can openers… Then people in marketing figure out that women are the primary consumers in society. Turns out they vote in huge numbers too. How do you sell to them? Prop them up, stroke their ego’s, exploit their insecurities, tell them what they want to hear. And since every guy wants to be the white knight to save the damzel in distress we go along with it. So, capitalism feeds consumerism feeds feminism feeds social conditioning… All of it props up this false value system.

    Basically free markets mixed with democracy has been so efficient that it has succeeded to perfectly mirror human nature. Which is why it will spread everywhere. It has always been inevitable I suppose.

    Or maybe I’m just crazy and the rise of fempowerment, the FI, consumerism, and western capitalism happening at the same time in emerging economies is a COMPLETE COINCIDENCE.

  60. @Rollo
    Plz approve my Shoe post thx People are fighting feminism outside the Manosphere with way more reach than most Red Pill’ers, they just aren’t doing it under the label Manosphere, MGTOW, PUA, Red Pill, etc

    But people are fighting back. The constantly closed comment sections on YouTube vids and mainstream articles that close because swarms of people fill them with red pill rebuttals is glorious. That didn’t happen in the past. That shit is progress, you just have to actually be paying attention to the current/next generation’s online culture shift instead of reading a few Manosphere blogs, to notice it. Slow & steady.

  61. @ scrib

    “So, what are we left with, in terms of actual action we can take that has real effect? Our personal lives. Our inner world, and I think in a real way this is the most important battle.”

    Agreed.

    It’s kind of a Taoist-esque approach. The world is on fire. Best course of action is personal and individual. It doesn’t mean that you can’t make any changes to the world around you, but that that shouldn’t be your focus, and any changes you would make to the world around you would be a product of your own self-development anyway.

    On that note, listening to this this morning is helping me feel better. Keep the good stuff coming in:

  62. Rollo wrote: ” I notice the hesitancy a lot of people have with commanding a dog to behave in desired ways goes against the idea that we ought to just let the dog be for fear of crushing the poor thing’s spirit.”

    If you don’t train a dog and create boundaries (standards & values) it will just shit and piss wherever it wants….sound familiar? I’m sure it’s happened to more than a few guys in their relationships.

  63. IAS

    A few thoughts for you…

    2. Guys trying to disqualify you… You just A&A…

    4. Art direct that photo shoot opportunity… boss them around, re-arrange them, tell them they suck at taking pictures, sexualize have them kiss, hug etc…

    5 & 6. You figured these out for next time, always use these as sexualizing convo opportunities… [laser eye] Yeah, you like… salty nuts.. in your mouth…? [smirk] I wouldn’t know of course… [and you’re off… ask about her first BJ etc…]

    7. anything with tats… or no tats lol, but talking about tats, is a chance for kino… Here [take her arm] “yeah I can see a flying unicron… right… here… [trace outline, laser eye]… Lead this into imagery etc.

    8. Oh boy… “Ooh yeah” but actually wants to play with it ” well you know now for next time… LOL… as to the leg fat… escalate the kino, laser eye… “yeah that calf is a little fat, how about here [thigh ass waist]

  64. That Beyoncé Lemonade video album actually encapsulates all of the contradictions of the modern FI, trying to sell Tidal music streams
    to GoneGrrls and BetaBoys who wank to sultry outfits on da teevee:

    Look at me! LOOK you pussy man! I’m SEXXAY and super sex-pozzitive!

    Don’t look at me! How DARE you look at me you pussy man? You seximalist chauvinizistic PIG!

    Hey grrlfriends look I’m such the BOMB I got me the bestest hip-hopper on the planet all to myself!

    Hey grrlfriends help me out, seems my hip hop hubby got jiggy with someone else…

    My hip-hop hubby feels so guilty and respects me so much he LICKS MY FEET he loves me so much!

    My hip hop hubby is such a supplicating beta I can’t stand him and I want my sister to punch his FACE in an elevator!

    I mean for what it is, it’s well done enough, certainly striking to look at, glad I checked some of it out, but no need to see again, places to go, people to see, beer to drink.

    The strain in the FI is evident, the foundations are showing stress fractures…

  65. ~17:30 mark in the vid I just shared, even notice how they’re going

    “Good luck with that”

    “That’s a tall order, Patrice”

    ..when he’s talking about having two girlfriends at the same time, or having a girlfriend that’s okay with him seeing other girls.

    Knee-jerk reaction for most guys is to go “Oh, NO….that isn’t what my girl would want, no WAY would she be OK with that, so fuck, man, you must be out of your mind, thinking you can *disrespect* women and *mistreat* them like that and get away with it…etc.

    It’s all framed from the FI. Men have been conditioned into thinking like this. Thinking that for a man to be with multiple women is MISOGYNY.

    That guy wants to fuck MULTIPLE women? Really? He wants to HAVE SEX with MORE THAN ONE woman????? And wait …. beyond that he wants to even do more than that, like LIKING these women he’s fucking, and treat them similarly? That’s even worse than one night stand cheating! Holy shit!

    MISOGYNIST! He is a woman HATER! He hates them so much that he wants to have sex with them and do other things with them like hang around them or help them out with shit once in a while.

    tl;dr FI rhetoric in a nutshell:

    If you’re good to one woman, you’re a good guy. If you’re good to two women, you’re a misogynist.

  66. @scrib,
    “Keep this in mind too. I roll in the same circles as you – or did for a long time but have removed myself consciously from them. I do so for my business now but that’s it, not socially. Do you not have to keep many of your views and ideas to yourself? Do you not have to be very careful about what you say and do? As an alpha of sorts, I can get away with transgressive behavior at times but it’s the exception always. ”

    when I am rolling in my 1%-5% environs, if it is in the leisure / social area of my life, I generally self censor far less than I would if I were say at a meeting at City Hall or at a Major university, who is a client of mine. But what I do is always push the edge of what is acceptable.

    In my elite social circle I am lucky to have a ton of social proof and I have earned my stripes enough to be a cultural leader in one particular organization packed with my city’s elite. I get respect from my peers, my elders and the youth because I have actively worked with all those groups for the last 20 years. Now I have to be careful to not burn my social capital on fruitless efforts, so I am careful to cultivate certain viewpoints etc with various influential people. I try to lead by example also. But I am also happy to do a takedown on naïve stupid left wing dumb shit spouted by some people. If it’s a younger person, I challenge them and encourage them to use their critical thinking skills to wrk with me to deconstruct various ideas, precepts and concepts that have channeled them to error. If it’s some old hag, I can be simply outright dismissive, if it’s a middle aged man, I go for his weakness which is likely a BP marriage.

    For example, one young man, younger than me anyhow is a member of the board of directors at the club. We were partying one night and he basically ended up in tears because he could not comprehend how I had a great looking wife (he has a crush on) with whom I clearly had a great relationship (Traditional RP relationship) and how I was “my own man etc etc etc. He was a classic AFC despite his station in life. he is very heavily indoctrinated to the BP and I have been slowly actively trying to mentor him towards the RP. His tears stemmed from his AFC situation, he had done “all the right things” and yet there he was with a fat sexless wife (Extremely atypical in this environment) and he not only could sense but he knew for sure he was getting a fucking raw deal.

    I am not convinced he’ll ever be able to unplug but I will give him the benefit of the doubt anyhow. What’s interesting is his BP-ness tars him with the stink of life loser at the club. No matter his accomplishments he will never get rid of that stink until he swallows the Red pill. He can see the RP all around him working for his peers and fellow members but he is cognitively stuck with his programming. A few more years of sexless marriage and he will be totally ripe for conversion. If he survives the conversion he will be a powerful proponent. Only one man, but a man in a position to do things nevertheless and he will of learned how to be subtle but effective all the while.

    Another example. Major university in the city is a client as I mentioned. I deal with a POC female director of an important branch of the university. You would think her to be the very essence of everything we speak about here as you mentioned, e.g. SJW, prog-marxist feminist etc. students are literally protesting outside her office half the time I go there for meetings.

    Behind closed doors, I am able to regularly, with her alone, joke about rape culture etc and have her in fits of laughter. She is the very thing we speak about here in terms of “elite” and “the enemy” etc. she is entirely representative of someone who has her hand on the lever of the cultural engine that is the university system and she is totally receptive to RP thinking. She looks at the antics of the students outside her door as just that, naïve antics and academic hubris. Granted she is an administrator and not an academic but to that extent she still has lots of power. She can all too easily see the excesses of staff and students alike and she too is quite receptive to the messages of sanity, practical common sense, not to mention old school patriarchal sexiness from men who can call it like it is. she was extremely explicit with me as to how refreshing it was to deal with a MAN from outside the organization with views such as mine.

    So do I self censor? Yes some times, but increasingly no I don’t, I am careful to use Sun Tzu and carefully pick my battles but I constantly keep testing the limits no matter where I am or who I am with. Granted this is part of my character and has been forever, I naturally chafe at constraints and swallowing the RP allowed me to see what those constraints were that had held me back in the past. Now I simply encourage others to “see” their restraints. As I have become a bit older and more wise and I am more strategic about how I drop these kinds of “mind bombs” into peoples every day lives.

    The best part is that RP is built on Bio-evo, and sex. Lets not kid ourselves 90% of men find RP because of sex. The beauty of that is that it is 100% common to pretty much every person you deal with whom is more that 15 years old. EVERYONE has an interest in sex. RP of course cuts through all of that every single time. When you are able to demonstrably predict human behaviour in a given circumstance particularly in respect of sexual behaviour you seem like a prescient magician. As Arthur Clarke said, any technology that is sufficiently advanced will appear as magic. Well to me, RP is the same, when you can speak to bright young people who are still in their formative years and accurately predict behaviour where others cannot, you are MAGIC. That is a very powerful position to have when influencing the next crop of the “elite”. They are smart for the most part and they know they are different from the “plebs” for the most part. They also know there are some places and environments where they can “speak freely” and that means they can exchange ideas freely. In that environment, away from the FI overlords, an amazing amount of really important cultural transmission happens. I have faith in this because I see it all the time.

    Is it enough, to “win”? I have no idea, but what I do know is that enough of them get the message that they self select into more traditional gender roles to form families and bring up their children, that in and of itself pre-selects them to be able to stay in the elite if you ascribe to Murray’s thesis.

    Will these same people go on to pull the pendulum of culture and law back? I have no idea but I do know there is a strong cultural current that could be characterized as RP and that it thrives in many areas of the elite. The “elite” is not soaked through with Marxist crazy, there are areas it cannot penetrate, those areas are made of very old hard strong wood and are not in any danger of coming down soon. Perhaps this is why I have faith, hope even, for a decent more sane future for my children.

  67. @Misanthropist: “The problem is that equality is nearly always a ruse. Few people really believe in equality, yet groups with influence will always have an incentive to demand equal rights or outcomes in the circumstances that benefit them.”

    I would go farther and say that the demand for equality is ALWAYS a ruse. It’s the third step in the process of institutional takeover:

    1. We have a right to be heard.
    2. We demand a place at the table.
    3. There must be equal representation.
    4. Now that we are in charge, you old timers can stay if you don’t interfere.
    5. Get out now! No room here for you.

    And our current western society has already pretty much bypassed Step 4, and is working at eliminating Step 3.

  68. Part 2: Into the night, keep marching on.

    [If short on time skip to 7. which is at the top of the most messed up conversations I had with a girl, and I should probably somehow package it into some kind of DHV story for the future]

    I get to the club relatively early, it is very empty. As I arrived I saw two of the girls from my team arrive just before I get there, a short, thin one that is very cute [Tiny girl, TG] and a bigger one [BG].

    1. When I do go in I’m by myself and look around. Don’t see TG or BG. I go to the next room and there is a whole long table of girls in matching sporting shirts [Sporting Girls, SGs]. Over 20 in total I think. A sight to behold and kind of intimidating now that I think about it, 0 guys in sight. I go right to the middle of the table without hesitation and open them asking if they are from my event [if I had stopped to think I would realize this didn’t make sense but I just went in and asked. Good for me]. They reply “Nooo” in good mood. I ask what sport they play and if they were competing earlier today. They reply and I nod, smile and go look for other people. Could have done so much more here! [Advice anyone? I guess I could have squeezed in to sit right in the middle. Even if they blow me out I could just shrug, get up, leave and approach some of the other ones later].

    I passed through a room just with guys in several tables. They all had sporting shirts similar to the SGs, I chatted one of them up and they are the male team(s) from the same sport as the SGs. I ask “Why are you guys segregated from the girls” and he says “Because they aren’t as much fun, we are having more fun over here”. Solid mentality if it was true!

    2. I go to another room which has line of sight with the dance floor and spot the FGs all alone in the dance floor. They literally cheer when they see me, beckon me over and complain about arriving early and nobody else being there. I go in with a smile and ask “Which one of you is teaching me how to dance tonight?”. They look at each other and FG2 goes “All of us”. It is just the 5 of us for a bit so I leave the set and engage a bit with the DJ who is friendly and asks if I had requests. I don’t know the modern music they play very well so I ask if he can play stuff from the 80s and he says that he can but after midnight. I go back to the FGs and ask each in turn if they have music requests and they say they’ll think about it. [Need to get used to not lean in and get them to lean in when I want to speak – this is a common problem so there must be specific advice for this].

    3. Two girls from another Uni arrive on the dance floor and dance for a bit by themselves. I’m still the only guy around. I go to them and say “Hey why don’t you join us” [Should have been “Hey join us” or even no words, but not sure they even heard]. Put arm-around shoulders and merge them for a bit to the FGs. I didn’t introduce them because it is too loud but I probably should as they de-merged not long after. [Advice?]

    After a bit I go back to them and ask which Uni they are from. When they reply I light up with a smile and say “Oh right! The ladies in Red!” and they light up and go “Yeah!”. I think these might even have been LiRs I opened in the morning [I’m pretty bad with faces].

    4. More people arrive from my team. Including a girl that got annoyed at me and actually scolded me just the previous week for innuendo. She was very friendly throughout the day though. Got her to guess something about what I was wearing and she really lights up and gets someone else from the team to take a picture of me, her and another guy. [I can’t figure out if she actually likes me or not. Advice?]

    5. It is only at this stage that I actually circulate more with the new people that arrived and find TG and BG, which were bored and alone somewhere all this time (it was at about 20 minutes). I teased them about it, told them I actually saw them arrive and that the FGs were here even before they were [implied: and they got to have fun with me on the dance floor while you were bored somewhere else]. I guess I could have tried to find them earlier instead of just sticking around the FGs but they did a piss poor job at looking for people. Girls…

    6. Merge TG and BG to dance floor to the FGs. More people are arriving. FG2 says “We are going to the photo booth to take some pictures, do you want to come?” And I say sure. Didn’t lead sadly as I didn’t know where it was. I go with them and they start squeezing themselves into the booth (4 is pretty tight). I tease “Didn’t you get enough pictures already for today?” and they say “Nooo” and start making poses. [Probably could or should have squeezed in there, but I honestly don’t think I wanted to, looked really crammed and uncomfortable].

    7. The photo booth is actually in the corner right next to the long table with SGs from 1. Some of the seats are empty (probably out to get a drink) so I just sit at the end closest to the booth, facing FGs, back turned to all the SGs on the table. Not long after one of them, I think it was the one closes to me, SG1, says something like “See, you scared this guy” [maybe because I had my back turned on them? I just came with 4 girls into this room and sat on their table without asking them, plus I opened the table earlier when it was probably a bit intimidating to do so so they are probably curious about me].

    I turn to them with a puzzled look and move closer to sit right next to. SG1 points to SG2, a rather pretty one which didn’t look drunk to me. SG1 is between me and SG2. I look at SG2, she looks at me without emotion and just goes:

    “I said I fucked my dog”

    while I hold eye contact. I say “I hadn’t heard it the first time, but I certainly heard it now!” and face forward to SG3 for a few seconds. Then I turn back to face SG2 with a smile and ask “Did the dog consent?” and she goes nonchalantly “Yes”. And I say “If the dog consented, it is not rape!” and she continues nonchalantly “That’s right, it was not rape”.

    I don’t know how to interpret what just transpired but I think I held Frame decently. Then SG2 and I think SG1 got up probably to get another drink and I’m left facing SG3 sitting in front of me. She is also pretty but has a more shy look (to be fair it would be hard to not look shy compared to SG2). I keep smiling and ask her “So, did she tell you all the sordid details or was she just telling you girls that she did it?” and I think she replied that she didn’t know. I say “Fair enough”.

    I say bye and get up, at this stage the FGs are done with the pictures and are waiting for the pics to come out (I think) and on of them says “Shit” (in their language). I correct them and say “Poop” in their language and they crack up.

    [All in all, despite the supremely bizarre conversation with SG2, I think I would be very well positioned to game some of the other SGs, if they saw all that. Or maybe even SG1, SG2 or SG3 themselves. Now that I’m writing I kind of wonder what SG2 would pull off next and regret not finding out.]

    [I am tempted to tell the FGs about what happened while they were taking pictures next time I see them, and indeed to package this story in the future to DHV.]

    8. I lead the FGs back to the dance floor, there are more people, at some stage the food is ready so everyone goes to eat. The FGs are near but I spent a lot of time with them so I don’t stay in set.

    TG and BG are closer, as are a couple more girls from my Team [AG1 and AG2]. I tend to not rate girls but for this point it is important to note that BG, AG1 and AG2 are HB5, and in fact due to my particular imprinting, I personally consider her to be either the 2nd or 3rd cutest girl in my team. She used to be my favorite prior to LG [I have this tendency to have favorites, which I think primes me for one-itis. Again this must be relatively common problem and I welcome suggestions to curb this].

    I suggest the girls lets sit here and the layout is TG, AG1, AG2, me, BG. Funny that TG and BG got split, now that I think about it it may have been BG wanting to sit next to me. TG is further away (and probably doesn’t care too much as she is pretty) but the other 3 were constantly engaging me as I’m eating. Previously I would have thought they were just being nice but now that I’m a bit more game aware I think they were competing for my attention.

    AG2 was particularly active in engaging me and was giving me food from her plate so that I didn’t have to get up to get more food.

    All of them wanted to know where I was actually from and how I pronounce my name, but I think it was AG2 that asked me how many languages I speak. I said I only master my mother tongue and English, explain the other ones I dabble in including FGs’ mother tongue and say “which is why I hang out with the FGs” [Not sure I should have added that last bit].

    Again I think it was AG2 that asked me what I study, then when I finished my degree. I grin and they are stumped for a while. So I re-initiate and say I finished in 200x. And they go “Nooo! IAS!”. I say “I’m older than you think” so of course they ask “How old are you?” and I grin and tell them to guess. [Getting girls guessing is such a great tip].
    They alternate guessing starting at 2x (don’t know if 200x influenced this as it is just remove the zeroes) and I keep telling them higher, higher until they reach mid-thirties. Naturally they say I look younger (well duh, they started at mid-twenties when I had already told them “I’m older than you think”). I say “Yeah, I have good genes”. They ask if guys from my country look younger than they are. And I tell them “nah, I actually have good genes, my grandfather is over 90”.

    One or two times I got up to check on the FGs because they weren’t eating much. Turns out two of them don’t like the food.

    One of the times I did get up for more food, one of the very friendly guys from my team (also a foreigner and older than most of the girls) comes and instantly sits in my seat in the middle of AG2 and BG with a sneaky grin. It was hilarious so I crack up laughing together with the girls, and I compliment him on knowing what he is doing. I don’t even know if that counts as AMOGing from his part or mine.

    I just get more food and then sit on the other side next to TG. Why he didn’t do that in the first place I don’t know, but to be honest I might have done the same if I were him, it was worth more for the laughs and self-amusement than just sitting next to a pretty girl.

    Anyway to wrap this bit up, I think these girls were really loving it, seemed like they were kind of competing for my attention and even if they didn’t want more than that, I was bringing them value. If I wanted I could just go sit by other girls but my goal at this stage was really the food and I was fine where I was.

  69. IAS “[Need to get used to not lean in and get them to lean in when I want to speak”

    Point to your ear, motion them close, slip arm around their waist, turn your ear towards them…

  70. Part 3: Wrapping up

    9. After food, I saw a guy with one arm on a sling, standing alone in a corner. I remembered that recent Field Report here, someone chatted up a guy with a cane in a club. So I went and talked with him a bit trying to make his night better. He was part of the male counterparts to the SGs from 1. and 7. Asked what happened and from what I understood he got his arm messed up on the game. He wasn’t too cheerful, I didn’t stick around because it was too loud to make it easy to talk. I couldn’t really encourage him to go to the dance floor because people would be knocking on his arm [Maybe I could try pulling some of the girls from my team and drop them there? Would that suck for the girls though?].

    10. I think it was about this time that I pass by one of the girls from another Uni that was helping run the event and that was nearby during my rounds. She goes “IAS, right?”, I smile and go “Yes, that’s me”. “I remember your name from the rounds”. Maybe another perk of being a foreigner [strange name, easier to stand out], or I had caused enough impact regardless. Didn’t do more but probably could have. Too hard to talk in clubs though. [Should have tried to pulled to a dance floor for a bit, or pull to a quieter spot maybe].

    11. At a certain point only FG1 and FG4 are with me on the dance floor (possibly FG2 and FG3 were getting drinks) and they are looking behind me and go “What’s going on there” with what seemed to be a worried look/tone. Maybe it was just surprise though. I turn back and don’t figure it out. I ask and FG4 goes still with a shocked tone “She is kissing all the girls”. I’m not sure but I think what happened was there was a frisky drunk girl that was making out in turns with other drunk girls, and possibly FG1 and FG4 were worried she was going to come their way [Is this a credible situation/interpretation? Does it matter?].
    So I put an arm around each of them, bring them really close to me but not quite hug and say “Don’t worry about it, you’re with me, she will have to kiss me first”. I have to say given the context I did think about RSD Tyler getting a 3 way make out of the situation, as it was that kind of configuration.

    Also a bit later when all FGs were around again, and with the dance floor full but in a time when we had a enough space, I grabbed FG3’s hands and spun her both ways (clockwise and counter-clockwise). Stayed with them for a while and then decoupled again.

    12. Misc stuff…

    The dance floor started turning into a mosh pit of sorts. I’m not particularly fond of clubs anyway, but when this happens it is even worse.

    So there was another girl stumbling that I caught [I had one in a previous FR]. Not sure if she would have fallen without me but anyway. This time instead of a cockblock friend, I got some drink spilled on my hand and wrist due to the stumble [Seriously, should I just start letting them fall on the floor?].

    Another one I saw that looked like she had her hand on the floor had 1 or 2 friends around her. I touched her for attention and grabbed an arm to ask non-verbally if she wanted help getting up. The friends around her got a phone out using its light on the floor. I figure out they are probably looking for something. I happened to have a flashlight on my pocket so I pull it out, turn it on and point at the floor as well. The friend looks at me and goes “That’s handy”.

    Also chatted up a bouncer because it must get pretty boring. I told him I’m sober, that I’ve seen some pretty weird stuff and asked what is the most messed up thing he has seen. He said “I see people throw up on themselves, and then throw up on themselves some more”. I was expecting something more entertaining.

    WRAP UP

    I saw FG1, FG3 and FG4 head to the exit. Without FG2. I thought, that is interesting. I actually thought she might have left earlier and it was only a while later that I randomly spotted her chatting 1-on-1 with some guy. I thought, cool someone cold approached and opened FG2 well enough to isolate her, let me learn some Game from this guy.
    [In hindsight may have been someone I saw her greet rather earlier, not sure as I’m bad at remembering faces; in that case the guy didn’t cold approach her].
    But as I’m watching for a while the dude either wasn’t interested or had even less kino game than I do.

    Of the FGs, FG2 consistently gives me the most IOIs, or at least the more obvious ones (she is usually more enthusiastic to interact with me, can be personality or she actually is interested or just generally DTF).

    So I wondered, given that she is “isolated” from the others, I could try getting her from the guy and gain some more experience with her 1-on-1 in rapport building. But then I think, if she IS actually DTF and I somehow do extract her from the guy, I just messed up both of their nights and I’m not going to pull her home even if she wants me to. So I just go and talk with her, I just briefly ask about the others, she tells me they went home so I say cool, have fun and go back to the rest of the others from my team for a bit longer.

    The dance floor is REALLY packed now so a few times I swap places with AG1 so she can be more inside and not be pushed as much. Protector tendencies! Maybe should get rid of that. Anyway as I mentioned I’m not into getting shoved around so much so after that I just leave and go sleep.

    CONCLUSION:

    I think I opened a lot, day and night, I’m happy with that. Want to work on staying in sets longer after opening and get better at merging so that merged sets stick merged [or does it not matter?]

    Eye contact: I’m a bit displeased with it. In the night I only remember doing it with SG2 (but then again, how could I forget). I’m fairly certain I must have done some with the FGs at least. I’m certain the flashing lights in the dance floor mess me up, but I also should have done much more of it during the day.

    Kino: I am also happy with Kino, but even with my self-imposed limit [no make outs] I could have pushed far more. I also mostly do it with the girls that already know me which is a crutch – should do it much more with ones I cold approach. Anyway, lots of arm-around shoulders, don’t remember doing arm-around waist. Spun only 1 girl, didn’t pick-up any this time. By the time I thought about doing that stuff, the dance floor was too crowded. Should have done it earlier when it was empty. For example I think I should have gone in and done it almost right away when the FGs cheered for my arrival.

    I did quite a few hand-holding leads. I don’t know why I like hand-holding so much, but I do [Theories anyone?]
    The way that worked out was actually a bit in reverse of what I should be doing! So in many cases someone from the team or in at least one instance from another Uni arrived later or had disconnected from our group didn’t know where they were or would have trouble getting to them, so I just grabbed, slide my hand into the hand and drop them into the circle. For giggles I even did it once with a gay guy from my team that is pretty cool. I offered the arm and he just hooked on arm in arm first, but then I slid down to hand holding.

  71. @scrib,
    At your recommendation I also started on DeTocqueville a little while ago, I was too ambitious with my reading list and did not get through all of it but I will definitely revisit it some time soon. Not the easiest read as the English is 200 years old but the ideas are fantastic, it’s like reading a person’s report card from when they were much younger, you see the raw unvarnished aspects of the nation unfettered by so much history since then. The ideas that supported the country in the first place are much more clear. There were many passages I read that resonated very strongly with me, some as to why America had been strong, and some passages as to why America had been strong but why now it is corrupted and unlikely to be able to recover.
    To that extent it dovetailed very nicely into Murray’s book, or should I say they kind of bookend American cultural history to some extent.

    I had tried previously to get through the decline and fall etc etc but it was too much with young kids etc. So I settled for the seven part history channel series on youtube as I could watch it while I worked late nights at the office. Granted the TV comes up very short on specific details but it certainly draws the broad arc of an incredible history and it certainly pointed to the structural fault lines that brought down the empire and its dead easy to see their modern Western corollaries.

    In new reading Murray lead me to order A Study of History, the abridged version.

    Truth is I have far too many books coming at me these days.

    However I want to keep reading them because the more I dig into history the more I see how we are coming unglued and losing core values. The more I read the more I see how the Marxists want to destroy history to prevent us from learning from it. Its not even to prevent “us” from learning from it, its more like they want to prevent themselves from learning from it. Going too far back in history and they can too easily see that there are some aspects of Western culture they should not, cannot deconstruct with Lacan etc

    Next up will be, The Future of The Professions: How Technology will transform the work of human experts by Susskind. It would appear to raise important questions about how knowledge may become that much further centralized or at the same time democratized but more importantly handed over to the AI machine to sort out. It makes you wonder what will happen when AI meets RP vs AI meeting Prog-marxism. Look at what happened when Microsoft let a chatbot modelled on a teen girl start learning from the internet. It promptly started spouting lots of “unapproved” messages before it was hastily taken down and put out to pasture.

  72. “A lot of men in the ‘sphere believe their being clever when they refer to people with this worldview as ‘SJWs’, but for every hair dyed, gender-confused man-woman you see on Twitter there are hundreds of ‘normal’ people who all share similar perspectives – some simply subconscious generalization they’re oblivious to – sitting next to you at church, or working in the cubicle next to you.”

    Something churchies will never accept or acknowledge. The cute good girl sitting in the pew next to them may reject the feminist label but it’s only because much of what constitutes feminism is regarded as mainstream thought.

    But put them in the right situation and you will see the feminist attitudes come out along with their completely dysfunctional understanding of men.

    What’s so subversive about it is that the normal women don’t even realize it themselves when they spew SJW propaganda. Or they’re not die-hard fighters. They won’t scream the anti-male rhetoric. But they won’t say protest it, either. Nor will they have any qualms reaping the benefits of feminist activism. They might even be quietly sympathetic.

    The good thing is it’s pretty easy to coax normal people into showing their true colors. You just have to learn to say the right words and elicit a response that reveals what they truly think.

  73. @Sentient: thanks for the day game tips for my FR. Love your idea for Day game 4., it is fairly obvious that would work well but I didn’t think of it.

    Day game 5. to 8. (except 7 perhaps) is probably beyond my skill level to pull off safely, particularly with LG where I’m not even currently in a level playing field. But really I shouldn’t be risking that with any social circle girls.

    I know, self-limiting belief…

    About day game 8., Oh boy indeed. I choked on that one. The shiny thing bit actually wasn’t nearly as blatant as you are interpreting but I’m keeping it vague on purpose for privacy. But regardless, the leg thing is fairly blatant isn’t it.

    And yet I think she is either very good at girl game and messing with my head on purpose (doesn’t seem so, but I’m not advanced enough to figure out) or just her personality is like that. I don’t think she actually wants me to escalate.

    I can add that she was disqualifying herself a bit throughout the day, like her ability level at stuff. Can’t figure out if it is low self-esteem, fishing for compliments, or actively disqualifying herself because she doesn’t want me to escalate.

  74. “Basically free markets mixed with democracy has been so efficient that it has succeeded to perfectly mirror human nature. Which is why it will spread everywhere. It has always been inevitable I suppose.”

    Should be:

    Basically free markets mixed with democracy has been so efficient that it has succeeded to perfectly exploit human nature. Obviously it doesn’t mirror human nature perfectly.

  75. @scribblerg and @Agent P – ever notice the overly abundant jewish influence wrt to the cultural elite you both talk about, especially those among the cultural elite that truly have a platform wrt to presenting new ideas that uphold what scribblerg likes to call the progressive marxist agenda (or what Rollo likes to call bluepill idealism)? What to make of it? I smell subversion but have no idea what to make of it.

  76. There is no longer a ” right ” or ” left ” in this nation. Old set of rules. What we do have are base extremist political parties financed and dictated to by corporate masters.

    The realness is in the marginalized and uninformed middle, all of whom are pretty much clueless at this point.

    Society is beta in much, much more than just male/ female relationships.

    Masses refusing to think and looking to be led are ripe for exploitation

    And that’s exactly where we find ourselves.

    Re: Trump.

    He would change nothing if elected. He is not bright or intelligent enough. His understanding is sub par. Wind and bluster.

    3 branches Donald…..

    Not Alpha. Faux Alpha.

    And alpha is not the answer to men’s problems.

    Healthy red pill based knowledge and skepticism is the first step. In all aspects of life.

  77. @Andy You said:

    “Or maybe I’m just crazy and the rise of fempowerment, the FI, consumerism, and western capitalism happening at the same time in emerging economies is a COMPLETE COINCIDENCE.”

    You make a good point. But then pairing that with your other comment:

    “Basically free markets mixed with democracy has been so efficient that it has succeeded to perfectly mirror human nature. Which is why it will spread everywhere. It has always been inevitable I suppose”

    I don’t think that follows. What we have now is comfort, which does not play to the more sublime human ideals wrt to what we believe our human lives can deliver. So what happened?

    But, I think you are right – however the subversion towards dumb comfort that I am insinuating occurred, … didn’t happen just by coincidence. Scribblerg is right – don’t underestimate the power the cultural elites have wrt to shaping the narrative. Who the heck are these cultural elites so empowered?

  78. “I don’t think that follows. What we have now is comfort, which does not play to the more sublime human ideals wrt to what we believe our human lives can deliver. So what happened?”

    Yeah, I corrected that phrase. Yeah, we’re dumb and comfortable. BUT THAT SHINY BMW! If I had THAT, my life would be complete. There’s always something… We’re the first to get the dumb comfortable stage, so we’ll probably be the first to figure out how to fix it. Or we’ll just find out how it fixes itself.

    It’s a perfect storm really. Because the right will never accept that the free market is driving feminism, and the left will never accept that feminism is being driven by consumerism…

  79. Andy: “It seems to me that the spread of the FI is intertwined with the spread of westernized capitalism. They continually reinforce each other. Consumerism, capitalism, feminism, social conditioning… It’s a feedback loop.”

    I came to the idea it all has to do with the relation between the sexes. If there is peace, less men die and you get roughly 50/50, which gives females the power. Once in charge they ruin everything and there is war or some catastrophe, by which more men will die. Then there are less men available, women start competing for men, men get back into power. It’s a self stabilizing cycle of human development.

    “Westernized capitalism” means peace, at least inside the empire. By which it is empowering for women and the FI.

    The awful truth may be: There will be no alpha to save the day. But when things go bad, many fellow brothers will die and the others will win because of it.

  80. I said I fucked my dog

    Bullshit game. Girls and betas (maybe I repeat myself) do it. Alphas have real life stories. Betas have bullshit. Girls like to make up bullshit.

  81. “One interesting way to look at second-stage feminism is as an artifact of the Cold War. The Soviets funded lots of western progressive movements, including feminist movements. If you do some digging, you can find that almost all progressive movements had Soviet/have Russian backing. Of course, the Russians retain all the espionage rings that the Soviets built up. The Russians are not our friends, though our propaganda doesn’t paint them as hostile to us. The Soviets took their failed social experiments and pawned them off on us, attempting to weaken our society.
    Isn’t it funny that almost all societies where feminism is dominant were once enemies of the Soviets?”

    We hoisted our own petard. Blaming the Soviets is easy. Its the greed of the voters and industry which did us in.

    Why talk about Soviets and Feminism while the all-american capitalists funded the feminists for “Torches of Freedom” in 1929?
    Another soap brand brainwashed schools kids in washing hands daily at schools to “catch em young”.

    Soviets more or less just tapped into existing faultlines. They didn’t start this fire.

    Soviets did not bomb the Detroit, voters did. They voted for socialism to bribe themselves with their own money.
    So are all muni bonds going belly up one by one because voters have spent their future.

    Like Feminism, voters want choices , they want options but they do not want the ill Consequences now.
    “Their choices, their consequences”.

    Trivia:
    A freedom of Iroquois women to divorce and marry any one they like and hold property, etc. was kind of the catalyst for white american women to eventually ask for the same rights.

    Last but not the least, the Brits were the greatest supporters of socialism, communism and feminism. Had there not been WW2, the Brits would have continued under Chamberlain.
    How many people here remember that communists were voted in immediately after WW2 and Churchill was booted out.

    Soviet Union was Mecca of Communism but London was its Medina.

    Many Brit elites were/are closet supporters of communism and romanticized it.

    “I find it hilarious that scribblerg is probably the biggest pessimist on this site, and at the same time he loudly complains about MGTOW.”

    ssshhhh, the dancing money of TRM needs to have his daily dose of drama and an occasional meltdown.

  82. @Andy

    Yeah – good catch – “exploit human nature” makes a lot more sense than “mirror human nature”. Anyway, wrt to your latest comment:

    “It’s a perfect storm really. Because the right will never accept that the free market is driving feminism, and the left will never accept that feminism is being driven by consumerism…:”

    Perhaps you are agreeing with me that it is not matter of left/right, or feminism/manosphere ideologies, or even capitalism/socialism – it is something else that is driving the boat here, wrt to our current quandary (i.e. – that many many western people are experiencing growing dissatisfaction with the state of their lives). There is this vague notion that we have all been duped.

    Perhaps we have been duped by those that play to the operant-conditioning/self-agency polarity wrt to human social dynamic. It is clear that our cultural elites, play us all mercilessly wrt to the use of this polarity – what gives?

  83. ” Once in charge they ruin everything and there is war or some catastrophe, by which more men will die. Then there are less men available, women start competing for men, men get back into power.”

    @lh

    I would say it is a cycle, but an ever changing one. I have faith that we can muddle along in mediocrity, dumb and comfortable for at least 100 years.

  84. “Soviet Union was Mecca of Communism but London was its Medina.”

    Prussia was its Mecca and the Soviet Union was its Paradise, but yes, London was its Medina.

  85. Blax

    “[re TRUMP] He would change nothing if elected. He is not bright or intelligent enough. His understanding is sub par. Wind and bluster.”

    He has already changed a number of things… not even in the job yet. Now will he fix this shitstorm? No, I agree with you here. But he has moved the Overton Window pretty far towards reducing PC talk, unmasking the elites on the Right and advancing RP concepts much more than any politician since when? and his own life is a fair demonstration.

    You really believe a guy is all talk and bluster? A guy who thrives in NYC real estate development and politics for four decades, thrives in NJ politics and gaming, Airline, national politics now – is ALL smoke and bluster? A guy who builds a substantial privately owned fortune? All smoke in bluster? No there there?

    Not seeing it.

  86. @Rollo

    Good post IMHO. Props. I don’t have too much to add. Two quick things:

    ” Only the most antagonistic asshole, only the most anti-social prick, would be against “equality between the sexes”. Thus, to be against feminism is to be against a simplistic concept of baseline equality. However, taken out of the propagandizing efforts to shame and ‘correct’ men’s imperatives, it’s easy to demonstrate that the true intent of feminism is female ‘fempowerment’ in the dressing of an equality that no man (or woman) wants to appear to be against.”

    This is classic motte-and-bailey tactic. It’s a useful concept so I’ll explain it quickly.

    Medieval fortifications often consisted of a mildly-fortified living area called a bailey where people would spend most of their lives. Behind that was a motte, a heavily fortified tower that they would retreat to when under attack.

    Motte-and-bailey tactic works similarly – people have a viewpoint which they hold by default (in feminism, a series of positions designed to enable women’s sexual strategies at the expense of men’s) which are controversial. They hold and pursue these positions whenever they aren’t threatened. Whenever they are threatened, they retreat to the ‘motte,’ which are simple and incontestable versions of their beliefs (all we want is equality!). When the threat goes away they return to the ‘bailey.’

    You’ll see this basically whenever a controversial movement is trying to gain or consolidate power. It’s a specific type of bait-and-switch.

    Re: the westernization of values in foreign cultures: I think that most people underestimate how fragile traditional cultural systems are. And how they depend upon a population clinging to homogeny to really work. The only real outlying cultures in north America are sects like the Hutterites and the Amish, and they survive as seperate entities by very strong lines drawn in the sand and very tight-woven communities that others aren’t really allowed into. Any sort of vacillation – which poor 3rd-world cultures are pretty well bound to do given what’s on offer – and the whole house of cards collapses.

    Well-functioning, balanced cultures are very high-complexity systems. And they also involve a sort of myopia – a lack of clear seeing how their viewpoints aren’t clearly and universally true. As soon as a culture sees that it’s possible to do things another way, the faith in the practice of the culture collapses. They may pay lip-service to it but people start to do as they like. The fear of the gods vanishes breathtakingly quickly, like smoke in the wind.

  87. IAS – few more thoughts re Part 2

    4. [I can’t figure out if she actually likes me or not. Advice?] at this stage you are better served by just ASSUMING attraction and playing from that angle… be flirtier, be bolder, assume she is into you vs tip toeing to the line… better to be too bold and dial back than vice versa… Think of it this way – If she DOES like you then your assuming so is 1×2=2, positive reinforcing loop… if she doesn’t like you then you are 0x2=0 i.e. no worse off!!!

    6. The photo booth… ummmm kay… So 4(?) attractive girls want you to squeeze into their “porn shoot in progress” but you demur as it may be uncomfortable? LOL. step up starbuck, get in there, great kino, likely had some making out [chase some of the others out and ISOLATE]…

    7. I fucked my dog comment… You had a good response! The key with stuff like this is to be chill, no judgement, have fun with it… don’t act like a thirsty beta and get horny!, but play with her about it, lead to more sexualized convo… Keep up the good feelz! No judgment!

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