Good Girls, Bad Girls

goodbad

Culum Struan requoted a really great thought from an old commenter, AnonymousBosch, on Heartiste’s blog from about a year ago and I thought it might make for some good weekend discussions:


All I’m getting at is that every woman has an almost psychopathic longing to destroy any perception of being ‘the good girl’. It’s the most common complaint you’ll hear from women:

“It’s so hard being good.”

Women long to indulge their emotions enough to risk being swept away by them, and it’s this self-indulgence that makes them at risk of being self-destructive: they reach a point where they just want to tear everything down, including the Good Girl, and, most commonly, their beauty. An example is hacking off their hair when they have a breakup.

It’s in their songs, it’s in their literature, it’s in their movies. The social pressure to ‘behave’ drives them to distraction, even as they conform to it, meaning they’re internalizing this constant battle to be both good and bad: wanting the social approval, rewards and status for being good but desperately-craving social stigmatization to the degree of martyrdom for being bad.

Feminism, at it’s core, is basically: “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!”

This is why it’s beloved of ugly chicks who can’t sexually compete, and those with obvious Daddy Issues.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

If you’re stoic, she gets to indulge her emotions with a safety net that stops her from self-destructing, and she will adore you for it. This is the masculine – feminine relationship. She gets to be weak, knowing you’re her rock. She doesn’t want to lash out at stone that crumbles, whilst simultaneously wanting strong shelter to hide against.

Sexual degradation is part of the risk, and you temper this by always being in control of the situation. Never let her think she’s leading: or her desperation to prove her devotion to you will take her into weird, disgusting places that destroy her.

If you’ve got your player on, I guarantee you will hear some variation of this: “I’d never do this with any other guy, but you make me want to do this and I’m not sure why.”

This is their sexuality out of control by their furious emotional desire to be owned by you – they are swept away – and this is where you need to reign them in with a strong hand and be ‘Daddy’. Otherwise she’ll get stupid notions in her head that by being sexually-outlandish, she’ll be the whore women believe all guys want their wives to be, not realizing that we don’t want to think of the mother of our children blowing dogs and wearing our shit, (unless that’s really your thing).

This is what destroys women and makes the light go out in their eyes: when they degrade themselves for a man they value highly-enough in the hopes of locking him down enough only to eventually disgust him.

Sometimes, the degradation is a sex thing, where she blurts out that she’d blow a horse for you.

Sometimes, it’s physical: she wants you to see her with running mascara and her hair hacked off so you can see how ‘wounded’ and ‘vulnerable’ you’ve made her.

Sometimes it’s emotional: stories of ‘being raped’ or being abused by Exes, designed to fire you up with masculine protective instinct, but instead make you see her as damaged goods. She thinks she is showing you how much she longs for you with these socially-transgressive displays – because Social Status is female currency and power – so deliberately lowering herself in a man’s eyes is the ultimate submission for her – but all she is doing is pushing you away.

During sex: always lead, always control, always structure what is happening. She wants to serve a strong man: show her how to so she doesn’t go off on self-destructive tangents. As McQueen used to say, don’t call her ‘a’ whore, call her ‘your’ whore. Your eyes are your strength here: if she’s sucking your dick, tell her to look at you, so she has nowhere to hide. Call her your ‘good girl’ as she does it.

Basically, structure a performance of faux-degradation and sexual submissiveness she can enact it that makes her feel she’s served a strong man, that stops her crossing into actual degradation, where it starts emotionally-messing her up and leaving scars.

That being said, Millennial Girls seem to possess a capacity for self-loathing and self-destruction I’ve never seen in previous generations.

So, take what is happening in this thread: the transfer of money for sexual degradation. It’s the same core process: she’s telling herself it’s about the money, but it’s about submission before the masculine: the trappings of supreme social and financial power. It’s about thinking she’s high value enough to be submitting to Princes and Kings, so the leap to being crapped on or blowing a dog to prove she is ‘a worthy consort’ is a small one for them.

Obviously, it makes no sense to us, but women seem to be clueless as to what behaviour actually makes them attractive, and not repulsive, to men.”


I think one of the reasons AnonymousBosch finds Millennial girls to be more debased is that these girls are the first generation to be counted among the sum result of a preceding 4 generations of feminist ideologies. Likewise, Millennial men are the products of that same 4-5 generations of emasculation, feminization and the deliberate obfuscation of what masculinity “really is” for them. This deserves some explanation.

I’ve gone into the timelines and the evolution of how Hypergamy has been released from social restraints, wholesale, on western society in my Adaptations series of posts, but it’s a good review to understand what AnonymousBosch is relating here; We keep returning to Hypergamy and its regulation as a basis for an expanded vision of social structure, but it’s important to remember the behavioral prompts that women’s biology predisposes them to in that respect. Since the time of the Sexual Revolution we’ve had a systematic conditioning for, and institutionalization of, a social order that prioritizes women’s Hypergamy as the predominant one.

Unilaterally female-controlled hormonal birth control was certainly a catalyst for this social shift, but it’s important to remember that for the past 4 generations women have been raised and acculturated in a social environment not only rooted in the fempowerment narrative, but also one that encourages the excesses of the ‘bad girl’ side of Hypergamy that AnonymousBosch describes here. And as I mention in that post, the social engineering that’s led to feminine-primacy (as well as erasing the inconvenient aspects of conventional masculinity) all centers on optimizing women’s Hypergamy.

So we experience 2-3 generations of women who are conflicted between what that Fempowerment narrative has taught them they should value and the conventional, evolved biological impulses that predispose them to appreciating, enjoying and submitting to sexy male dominance. Instead of being confused and agonizing over the traditional (old order) ‘Good Girl’ social restrictions that buffered the more damaging consequences of Hypergamy, now women agonize over the conflict between what Fempowerment has conditioned them to believe they should be attracted to in an “equal partner” (Beta Bucks) and their visceral sexual drive for ‘bad’ Alpha dominance in a man they want to lose themselves with.

They’ll still lay claim to the ‘Good Girl’ social convention when it suits their purpose (i.e. during the Epiphany Phase) to affirm their decisions to prioritize a need for long term security – or to excuse past Alpha Fucks sexual needs – but the primary conflict is still the same, an internal war between the contradicting aspects of her sexual strategies and how they influence her life’s decisions and different phases of her maturity.

In her SMV Peak years, “Fuck you society, I won’t be the good girl you want me to be!” is the message she adopts insofar as it serves her sexual strategy’s immediate interests. The conflict comes when she needs to temper this sentiment with a need to settle into a motherhood role and compromise it just enough to present the appearance of being a prudent choice for long term commitment.

I see my role, as a man, is to recognize their capacity for depravity, both sexual and emotional, and to offer the dominance and guidance to reign them in. Women, even as they get outraged at the very notion, simply want a man they respect to tell them ‘No’, and offer them structure and guidance. One good way I’ve heard this described on here was “She is the ocean, and you are the rock, and the furies of her storms have no impact on you. You are unyielding.”

When men first come to Red Pill awareness about the motivations of women’s sexual strategy it’s very easy to see their behaviors as being intentional or their after-the-fact rationalizations for them as being convenient and expedient in excusing them. There is a definite design to the psychological and social schema women will use to explain their actions, particularly when they’re anti-social, sexist and/or damaging to the men who bear the worst of them.

Not to say men should tolerate this, but it’s important for men to understand the underlying psychology and motivators for women’s behaviors. It would seem AnonymousBosch has embraced this understanding. Again, it’s easy to think you’ll just put your foot down and not tolerate women’s bad behaviors, but this ignores those same female-motivators, sacrifices a real understanding of them and attempts to replace learning to maneuver them with the misguided hope that women will be rational agents and change their behaviors because we say so.

Men of this mindset believe the same ‘equalist’ hope that women will cease to be the “most mature teenager in the house” because they rationally explained to them that they should ignore their base motivators (Hypergamy) and act reasonably. This doesn’t work for women, nor does it work for men when women attempt to convince men to adopt a feminist mindset based on exactly the same appeal to reason. The boner doesn’t lie, and neither does women’s sexually strategic behavior.

In an age of unfettered, socially and legally affirmed Hypergamy it’s counterproductive to expect any woman to self-police her own sexual strategies by appealing to her reason.

The good news, as outlined by AnonymousBosch, is that Red Pill awareness and internalized Game are the same buffering contingencies for Hypergamy as they’ve always been. The trick for men now is to reestablish and embrace a connection to the conventional masculinity that’s been systematically conditioned out of men for 2-3 generations. In fact, there’s no better evidence of this Blue Pill conditioning than the common sense of counterintuitive-ness of embracing a masculinity that puts a man into a position of exercising the dominance women need.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

820 comments on “Good Girls, Bad Girls

  1. @kfg

    “Current world record is 1102 lbs. 500 is less than half that.
    For 14 year old girls it’s 310.”

    that’s with a shirt that assists with the actual lift.

    the WR for unassisted bench press — just a belt and wrist wraps, is 739 lbs.

  2. kfg

    For a millisecond scray had me thinking I was suffering from dementia.

    My 21 year old Goddaughrer benches 300.

    My bro in law just turned 50, and he still benches 400.

    I can’t go really heavy now. My shoulder has the final say on poundage.

    I almost called everybody I know to congratulate them on being elite lifters, until I clicked the link and saw it was about powerlifting.

    500 pounds barely rates. The percentage regards powerlifter not general population.

    Pick it up…put it down.

  3. @blax

    “500 pounds barely rates. The percentage regards powerlifter not general population.”

    the general population standards would be EVEN lower….

  4. “the WR for unassisted bench press . . . is 739 lbs.”

    So a bit less than 2/3 instead of less than half. It’s still a big margin.

    “the general population standards would be EVEN lower….”

    I don’t think that Blaximus is claiming that 500 lbs is a weak lift.

  5. … I better call my bro in law and yell at him for not sharing his roids.

    When I trained with my cousins that were ( roided ) amateur bodybuilders, there were many natural guys in the gym that were smaller and stronger than the juicers.

    There are people in the world that are just genetically strong. It is possible.

    Size doe not always denote strength. That’s a myth.

    With 238 pounds being my biggest strength did not rise appreciatively with the size increase.

    And I won’t argue with the couch sitting hormonal study….. I just advice guys not to try crazy shit like that. One word = aromatization. Sitting around increases the conversion of T to nasty versions of E and DHT.

    But that’s a different convo.

  6. This guy, and others using bodyweight and bars etc., do some pretty amazing things

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFPsvF3UOdo

    I have my own workout I came up with… one you can do anywhere in about 30 minutes if you keep after it… the 300 plan

    4 days –

    Abs – 30 single leg lifts (less strain on lower back) each leg.
    50 standing twists
    50 crunches

    Chest – 25 push ups (4 sets, i.e. 100)

    Arms/Shoulders – 100/100

    dumbell curls lighter weight 15 reps then straight to military press 25 reps then straight back to curls 15 reps

    Then two sets of heavier weight dumbells, 10 reps curls then 25 reps presses then 10 reps curls

    Then another set again like the first with the lighter weight.

    The key is not taking a lot of time between sets. You can increase iintensity a lot by cutting down your time from 2 minutes to 1 minute to 30 secs etc between sets.

    3 Days – walk, yup just walk do not run, for 1 hour at a good pace.

    This and eating right (great bodies built in the kitchen) are all you need to get a good physique.

    Never been injured, have no shoulder, back or arm issues at all. No knee issues. Can do it anyplace (never go to the gym, just get two sets of dumbells), any hotel fitness room.

    5’10” 174

    http://www.robkingfitness.com/new_uploads/2012/02/georges-st-pierre-16-205×300.jpg

    Culum – George is still looking at you…

  7. @kfg

    “So a bit less than 2/3 instead of less than half. It’s still a big margin.”

    not really, considering the diff between 1st and second place in lifting events can be > 50 pounds.

    not only that, but when you limit the federations to bona fide drug free organizations and raw lifts, the WR drops off by A LOT

    https://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/strong-strength-standards-raw-natural-lifters

    “I don’t think that Blaximus is claiming that 500 lbs is a weak lift.”

    No, I just said that if he was benching 500 lbs natural, he was executing an elite lift, which is true according to all official strength standards I’ve seen…which are made by people who deal with actual athletes who lift for a living….

  8. Sentient

    Good stuff.

    I used to workout for size and strength. Now I do it for health in older age.

    True, one doesn’t absolutely need to go big and heavy to gain benefits. Just do something.

    Buuuuttttt…. They can bury my bench and heavy bag with me.😁

  9. @blax

    “I just advice guys not to try crazy shit like that. One word = aromatization. Sitting around increases the conversion of T to nasty versions of E and DHT.”

    aromatization happens whether you bust your ass at the gym or not. guys just have to get an AI to deal with it regardless.

    among men who lift, esp lifters who MAKE MONEY off their bodies or lifting or whatever, steroids are common.

    and i’m not even talking about OBVIOUS cases like CT Fletcher. I’m talking about > 80-90% of ‘natty lifters’ on youtube as well.

  10. Blax

    I used to lift when I was younger… in college. started with another guy at a working class bodybuilding gym. always enjoyed it and learned a lot there. That was a hardcore place with a lot of amateur guys coming in after working construction and what not. Roids where prevalent. Thought about them but hate needles LOL. Gyms are great though, when you are young, to learn and respect the hierarchy, to be accepted into it [even though you weigh 80 lbs less LOL].

    The problem I have now is time, just going to and from gym is a waste, at 48 you can get injured easily, especially wit X Fit [LOL my ortho surgeon buddies lurvvv X Fit… lots of shoulder surgeries] and if I lift I will gain, so need larger wardrobe.

    This system here is great if anyone is looking for something – hard to make excuses not to do it too…

  11. @ scray

    I get what you are saying.. I resist only because I’ve seen so many people bench 500 and more, that my brain doesn’t see it as elite in any way. Also, I am unclear as to what to official standards really are in regards to… Powerlifter? Squats? Deadlifts? Benches?

    Seriously though, thousands must qualify as elite without even knowing or caring.

  12. “> 80-90% of ‘natty lifters’ on youtube as well.”

    More and more age group amateur cyclists are getting popped for drugs. It’s one of the reasons I no longer compete in traditional, sanctioned events. I’ve mentioned before that I left the pro path over the issue.

    15 years ago I took 4 Tylenol to help deal with a runaway fever. 10 years ago I took a Sudafed to deal with the consequences of a yellowjacket not appreciating being mowed.

    But I take it for granted that in the “outlaw,” honor based competition I currently engage in that many of my opposition wouldn’t test clean, especially those in and around my age group (a number of whom are doctors, and thus have relatively easy and inexpensive access).

  13. Scray

    Welcome to bodybuilding.com…lol

    Aromarization is driven greatly in men by body fat.

    A sedentary person not actively engaging in fat burning activity will be subject to more conversion than an exercising, resistance training person.

    AI’s will work, but they are a powerful and tricky proposition in themselves as driving E too low will fuck up your whole world quick.

    Moderation is best, and lifting works better than sitting if one chooses to artificially enhance their T levels.

    No free lunch.

  14. @blax

    “I resist only because I’ve seen so many people bench 500 and more, that my brain doesn’t see it as elite in any way. Also, I am unclear as to what to official standards really are in regards to… Powerlifter? Squats? Deadlifts? Benches?
    Seriously though, thousands must qualify as elite without even knowing or caring.”

    those charts I linked give you the standards wrt each different weight class for a 1rm at that weight.

    here’s a pretty cool breakdown of even how common a 300 lb bench is

    http://powerlifter-400.blogspot.com/

    altho, T-Nation disagrees re: 300 pound bench but still puts the 500 pound as two in a million

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/is-a-300-pound-bench-rare

  15. I’m busy as fuck today, and I’ll come back (once again) to the ‘Looks count, but aren’t everything’ debate, but in the meantime, here’s what Pook had to say about all this 12 years ago:

    Smart, fun, and interesting. So why is it that all the beautiful women always seem out of your grasp?

    Why!? You may even be athletic. You can do karate, can run super fast around the track, along with other things. So why does it seem you can get the average to cute girls but the very attractive women seem out of your reach?

    What is holding you back is that you are skinny.

    “But I like being skinny,” you say. “Look at all those fat people!” Indeed. “Those guys who go to the gym and all are just idiots.”

    There was an article in the Atlantic Constitution that said how average women marry skinny guys over big guys. It also said… why am I parroting? Let the article speak for itself:

    “When women are choosing mates – except for very attractive women — they’re facing a tradeoff of choosing a guy who’s very sexy or one who will stick around and treat them well,” he added.

    It is self-evident that beautiful women end up with the masculine men, in other words, NOT skinny guys like you.

    I know… I can hear what the objections you’re saying… because I used to make them. It seemed so ‘jock like’ and is ‘below you’.

    I have gained over 50+ pounds of muscle mass. There is a saying that when skinny guys get big, when they look in the mirror, they still see the skinny guy. This is true, as my ‘skinny mind’ hasn’t yet caught up with my body.

    Let me tell you of the change of reactions I got from the women:

    For your reading pleasure,

    Fat Girl = Means a big girl that requires an elephant gun.

    Ugly Girl = In the same category as Fat Girl. These girls may not be fat, but it hurts to look at them.

    Average Girl = They don’t hurt your eyes, but they aren’t amazing enough to attract your eyes. Average girls are the plain Janes.

    Cute Girls = Often, they are innocent average girls whose innocence makes them cute. They are a bit picky about who they end up with as they are inexperienced.

    Very Attractive = Great curves, long luscious hair, nice everything. These women know they are very attractive and sometimes narcissistically wear outfits to reflect it.

    Very Beautiful = Bombshell. Every guy will notice this girl and stare and gawk. You know one of these women are around by seeing the satellites of boys trying to be ‘friends’ with them. Guys fear these magnificent creatures.

    155

    I started out around 155 pounds at 6’3 height. This meant that I was very skinny. I was also considered a nice looking guy. Women loved me being tall.

    At this point, I had to deal with a lot of fat chicks hitting on me. These girls were BIG and I wanted nothing to do with them. Ugly girls also would come to me. This was me not doing anything. This was what my body was attracting all alone. If I wanted to get a cuter girl, I had to work for it.

    I have problems talking to women, not because I am scared or boring, but because I sense the women think I am ‘below’ them. And the truth is that they do.

    I date average women.

    165

    Already, things have changed. The fat/ugly women still go for me but they don’t think I’m as easy. They want to enter oneitis with me. The ‘unworthy’ girls category would now all be staring at me. To the beautiful women, I’m just a typical guy. Cute girls now enjoy talking to me.

    I still date average women and now some cute women

    175

    “You are looking very good,” my older female manager told me. The fat/ugly women no longer hit on me (thank goodness!) and people (out of the blue) are asking why I don’t have a girlfriend. Average girls are beginning to stare.

    I date only cute women with some very attractive ones mixed in.

    185

    Average girls are now hitting on me. Very attractive women are checking me out. At this stage, every woman is happy to talk to me. They all secretly wonder if I’m gay.

    I date more very attractive women but still have the cute ones.

    195

    OK, when you don’t have a girlfriend at this stage, the ladies will whisper, “Is he gay?” all the time. One girl got bold about it and asked me point blankly, “Pook, you are cute and all. So why don’t you have a girlfriend?” I was stunned by her bluntness (rare among women).

    Average women consider me out of their league. Cute ones try to become my ‘friend’.
    I date only very attractive women. Beautiful women are still a bit of an anomalie.

    205

    When you get to this stage, something very strange happens. All the attention and staring women gave you is gone (mostly). Ugly/Fat women will despise you as will the average women. Most girls will be scared of you (cute girls, very attractive girls)

    Let me give you some examples. One Very Beautiful girl was in several of my classes. I start talking to her and she has plenty of time to leave. But she doesn’t… she stays to keep talking to me. The girls now notice me, but are a bit scared to talk and act around me.

    One cute girl is like a leech to me in one of my classes. She must sit right next to me, must ‘borrow my notes’, must talk to me 20 minutes after class everyday…

    One Very Beautiful woman was a fitness instructor at my gym (think ‘well muscled’ with nice strong legs (those strong thighs come in handy with her dealings with the Pook-man!)). Every time I saw this girl, she always had a ‘satellite’ boy around her. Who does she end up with? Me.

    Or the ultimate example: there was a girl I was in oneitis that drove me to this webpage. As I got bigger, her reactions to me changed as well. At 155, I was ‘average’. At 175, she knew something was up. I got her at 195.

    Now I date some Very Attractive women but most are Very Beautiful Women.

    I know many of you guys are saying the same thing, “I get beautiful women too and I am skinny!” But the thing is, all these examples here is based on attraction on the body alone. I am NOT working to get these women. My body is doing 99% of the attracting. I can just be a statue and get a response. (But of course, you have to take action. This is based on doing zilch.)

    Rather than work hard to get one woman, why not work hard on yourself and get all the women? I don’t work hard to get women, I work hard on my dreams which gets the women automatically.

    Like the article says on top, only the extremely beautiful women will risk being with a hunk like you. If you want a girl with a great body, you ought to work on your own body.

    Coming from a skinny guy, being big is a totally different world. The worst thing is finding out how people really viewed the old you. People now openly insult my past skinny self and it hurts. It hurts because I never knew they had thought that way of me. Clothes no longer hang on my body properly, but I look terrific naked (I am saying this for the mental imagery of our lovely lady readers).

    Big guys are allowed to get away with more things. I allowed to be cruder, to be bolder, to take advantage of women more (I’m serious!), and so on. You can also be stupid as well. My biggest problem is women only wanting me for sex (no, this is not a joke. Yes, it is a problem). You try to find a girl that fits your life and all she is interested in is your body! It is like getting rich and putting up with gold diggers.

    So how do you go from being skinny guy to brawny guy? There is a lot of information on the Internet. Diesel’s Guide to Bulking Up threads in the Health Forum is a start. For myself, I used Anthony Ellis’s program. 30lbs in 3 months, no joke. Though, for most people beginning, it will be like 30lbs in 4-5 months. The big problem with fitness is that there are so many different opinions. Many of them are wrong and will waste your time (including trainers). What I loved about Ellis’s program was that it cut all the hype and came up with very in-depth information. It works.

    However, the risk with body building is that it can turn into a highly narcissist womb. I often think the mirrors in the gyms are not so much to perfect the form, but to perfect the ego. The risk is that you will try to become perfect and we all know that perfect is boring.

    Now for a note to the skinny guys who are successful with women. They will, no doubt, post replies to challenge the relevancy of this post. Know that the central… thrust… of the post is not a bettering of image. It is an increase of testosterone. If you are naturally skinny, and are at a higher muscle mass, your body will continually be at a high state of testosterone building and rebuilding muscle mass just to stay the same. High rates of testosterone affects not only your actions, I believe women can sniff it out. So take a guy, stuffed with testosterone, and push him into a room full of lovely young ladies. He doesn’t speak a word. He won’t have to. The women will go to him automatically.

    Such is the power of testosterone. Such is the power of sexuality.

    Not saying I cosign all of this, but it’s something to think about.

  16. @blax

    “Aromarization is driven greatly in men by body fat.”

    also greatly repeated myth that while logically sound isn’t true.

    it’s true that men who have shitty genetic coping mechanisms for test will tend to be fatter and also tend to have shitty aromatization, but it’s not really the bodyfat. it’s how their body deals with the ratio imbalance.

    you can tell whether you will respond poorly (and really, your genetic predisposition for a lot of other shit) by looking at the DISTRIBUTION of your bodyfat, not the actual fat mass.

    so if you have tons of fat on your love handles, thighs, and ass…..you probably have a lot of estrogen.

    if your arms and chest are flabby and your love handles, thighs, and ass are flabby, you have low test and high est.

  17. Again this is all an issue of a tool set. Looks, game, money etc all play a role in getting girls. You can still get girls if you are overwhelmingly blessed in one area, but you’re best off with being at least a little adept in all areas.

    So being jacked helps, just as being well versed in PUA helps. But really, you want a little of everything,

    How far you go into any one area depends on personal preference. Rollo loves to lift, so he should focus there. Ya really hates it, so it would kill him mood to do too much of it.

    Focus on what you are passionate about. Then, occasionally train in other areas to make yourself more well rounded. But don’t kill yourself over something you hate.

    Lift for health. Only lift to get jacked if you really love doing it.

  18. Thinking back…. Waaayyy back, in high school we had a club among the football team called the 300 club. The coach oversaw it. Every player that benched 300 got a t shirt with a barbell and the number ” 300 “.

    Practically all of us eventually earned one of these shirts, except the kicker. There were at least 12-15 of us with shirts. Once the baseball guys noticed them, they wanted some too. Around 5-6 of them earned shirts. Then the basket ballers wanted in, another 3-4 shirts.

    Then the stronger country boys asked to give it a go. Another 10 or 12 shirts.

    High school had about 1,500 kids.

    I don’t get the 300 controversy at T nation. His methodology concerning gym memberships is crazy, lol.

    But I would say that as a whole, dudes don’t care about strength as much any more, and guys are weaker in general. ” progress “… Lmao. Maybe dude at T nation really is on to something, looking at it by current metrics. Maybe there is a vast difference if measured by year and decade, even by region.

    Hell, no high schools relatively close to me even have decent athletic programs, much less teams of any sort.

    Damn shame.

  19. @blax

    “But I would say that as a whole, dudes don’t care about strength as much any more, and guys are weaker in general. ” progress “… Lmao. Maybe dude at T nation really is on to something, looking at it by current metrics. Maybe there is a vast difference if measured by year and decade, even by region.”

    highly doubt it. the first man to bench 500 (at least officially on the books) did so in 1953. so if anything, the strength standards going back in time would also be lower.

    it’s possible you have just been surrounded by super strong athletes your entire life, buuuut…..

    further guys care MORE about strength and performance now than ever before, because of the records set in yesteryear. HS athletes now (prob with assistance of gear) are putting some sick numbers.

    IME going to the gym, I’ve only seen a handful of men benching 300+, and like half that benching 400+

    but i don’t roll with ATHLETES exclusively so who knows

  20. YaReally Sentient HABD and others who weighed in on my work conference question:

    Am in the middle of it now so not much time to read here, but quick question:

    So far going pretty well for being a complete newbie and not knowing anyone. Major stroke of luck – my old college buddy who I haven’t seen in a years is unexpectedly at the conference and he’s well connected and well known in this circuit so he’s been introducing me to people including some of the biggest names (with the very biggest names there’s not much you can DO in two minutes except just to be able to say you met them..they are too far away in career terms in their 60s etc). And he took me to a private afterparty etc which was great.

    Opening people and talking is easy. It’s pretty much warm social approach. Some cool people, but judging by most of the (dozens upon dozens) of people I’ve spoken to, I’m one of the most socially engaging and interesting people around..people usually enjoy talking to me and listening to me, which is great.

    Lots of business cards/contact details and 4 solid leads for potential projects and work – all of them raised the possibility with ME, when they heard my background. Not sure if it will actually happen (like numbers in a club!) but I will follow up and see. And the conference isn’t over yet.

    Most importantly I have a real sense that I like this community and if I make an effort to be visible I have a good shot of making a transition to doing this kind of work.

    Key issues:

    -Just not getting where I’d like on building rapport..it’s like I do well on the “attraction” (for want of a better word) stage but building a connection – that feeling of “I’ve known this person forever” – not so much. I read some of YaReally’s earlier writing on it about trying not to talk about work and ask more personal questions and stuff and open up first to encourage them to do it. I’m trying to do it, but it’s harder in groups (vs one on one) and generally I am not good at it – it feels like there’s resistance when I try to turn the conversation more personal

    -I’m not sure how to conduct myself when in a group of people who know each other well (not necessarily senior people but sometimes very senior ones too). They aren’t deliberately trying to cut me out but it’s just hard for me to contribute..I don’t mind just shutting up and listening but I don’t want to vanish off their radar socially either.

    -Some cute girls (several 7s) but my mind is so full of the career stuff I’ve not really escalated anything beyond some very mild flirting (if I’m not in a sexual state, it’s hard to transmit that..so interactions pretty asexual).

    -As usual need to focus more on subcomms (especially when talking about my work) and generally observe my subcomms and correct them in real-time better..

  21. Chandler short stories I haven’t read, plus a most excellent title.

    FWIW, Chandler basically died of one-itis as many widowers tend to do.

  22. Just to clarify my comment a little: the key issue seems to be that I’m just not sure how to best conduct myself in the highest value environments/people at the conference – the organizers my buddy introduces me to or the private party for conference insiders he took me to that only advertised by word of mouth etc.

    Like my general rapport skills need to be better, but I know that and I know what I need to work towards.

    But when I’m in a group of 3-4 conference insiders/high value people in this career field (both men and women) and everyone’s had a few drinks and they are talking about their hobbies and they are not excluding me but they are not actively trying to include me either..I don’t even have a gameplan..I’m not even sure what I’m aiming for. If that makes sense.

  23. Culum

    It’s not harder to get that kind of known you my whole life rapport in groups.

    It’s impossible on a cold approach. Which is why you need to isolate, even just off to the side, or hit them when theybare alone between talks or in the lounge or bar etc.

    The group experience will only work if you get the group out and do something. But even then it’s more of a shared group experience vs one on one rapport.

    Same kind of rapport questions work… What would you do if you werent doing this, where would you go etc. Also family can be good.

  24. Aromatization is driven greatly in men by body fat.

    Especially visceral fat, which is typical in couch potato / chair commando men.

  25. @Culum

    “Just to clarify my comment a little: the key issue seems to be that I’m just not sure how to best conduct myself in the highest value environments/people at the conference – the organizers my buddy introduces me to or the private party for conference insiders he took me to that only advertised by word of mouth etc.”

    and

    “I don’t even have a gameplan..I’m not even sure what I’m aiming for. If that makes sense.”

    just try to relax and ‘belong’ there…then, ‘be fun and social’…you know, like game without the sexual stuff…lol…= add value…

    good luck!

  26. @Culum. In those situations you have to understand everyone is on guard especially during networking or work conferences that’s why everyone talks about hockey or a movie or something.

    Being a good listener and confidently making eye contact is a way to avoid having to actively lead if you’re not ready to start y a conversation thread.

    How you stand, look and dress at these things is important.

    Also if you’re gaming girls… Look for ones who are nervously standing alone and open them…

    If it’s bigger gathering break the ice … “You look like I feel…”

    You look Russian, French etc etc…

    When she asks where you’re from make her guess…you’re building rapport…

    Something like that starts with rapport building: I loved Russia …what’s the most exotic place you’ve been and don’t say Wisconsin…

    You’re a bit inside you’re own head and worried how you’re perceived.

    Remember Everyone at these things is awkward and guarded.

  27. @Blax

    Thanks for putting up the CT Fletcher vid,love that guy.ASS U MEing this guy came out of Compton,probably tried allot of different stuff,that didn’t work,got his shit together and never looked back.I highly doubt this dude is or ever was on roids.For one he is to small,you can see from the width his triceps that he does reverse bench for strength.The most important thing is he seems to be teaching leaders how to inspire.

    Totally chicks dig muscles,but if a man doesn’t show backbone to go with them he is gonna get shit.

    On the beta tells,my old power lifter friend,usta say,and you had to listen as he was deaf as a stone.”People send out some kinda feromone cues so if a guy has sex this cues the other guys to want to kick his ass,and the women want to be his friend.”
    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBC1WG1lnwU&w=560&h=315%5D

  28. @Culum

    “I don’t even have a gameplan..I’m not even sure what I’m aiming for. If that makes sense.”

    I doesn’t make sense to not have a plan. But just some totally random thoughts:

    Disclaimer: I wasn’t paying attention in class earlier. I don’t know if your principle purpose is to score pussy, or advance your career at a business conference, so take this with a grain of salt. I wrote this up before the last couple guys responded and I hope I am saying the exact same thing as they are in a different context.

    The same concepts of Pick Up Artistry and Game are universal. And apply to business socializing.

    The plan is to socialize, meet people, get social proof, DHV. But in a business conference, the goal is not to score pussy but to develop business contacts and network.

    Meet people, have fun and be fun, add value. It seems your question is in the realm of PUA game to score pussy, but maybe your goals should be platonic socializing game (don’t shit where you eat unless you can isolate, isolate, isolate). If you are going to be in this business, you are going to have to socialize with them, but that can be tedious because the conversations are logical, boring and non-romantic. They will bore the shit out of you, so you have to practice and be skillful at business socializing.

    With a plan.

    The way you describe things one pro tip is do not drink any alcohol at all (it won’t kill you) at a party in order to have an upper hand. Notice what happens after these people get three drinks in them? They start to be stupid and drone on. After 4 drinks? They are worthless morons, that will not engage you, unless you got something they want.

    But. If you are stone sober and they are past the 3.5 drink part, just practice game on them. A good conversation tactic is the old eliciting values thing.

    So for conversational game with men or women in a business social environment you want to find out about their values and beliefs and push them with your riffing stories on how you validate their beliefs. In other words be an actor that convinces them that you are cool with them. Even if they are talking shit or boring.

    Don’t make a basic mistake of bringing your own values into the conversation and ignore the other persons values and how that reflects on you.

    Listen and keep your mouth shut at the right moment.

    Learn about the values of the person you are talking to.

    Have the person feel like you validate their values, or have participated in that scene with a story you tell about when those values came true, etc.

    Get an emotional connection. Where they feel good that you agree with them, but you elevated them and agreed with them. Push their buttons without having any needs for yourself at all. See how that might work?

    Kissing ass if you will, but in a skillfull way. Artful adding value to who they are and what they do. You don’t get extra points for defending you, but you get extra points for validating them.

    Be upbeat and add value to themselves. Let them think with their conversation with you that that Culum guy is cool, and he makes me feel good about what I value and what I believe. Even if what those values and belief are shit. You are acting on a stage and they are watching.

    Elicit emotions and push emotional good emotions. This is polite society game when you are business socializing.

  29. Walawa said: “Being a good listener and confidently making eye contact is a way to avoid having to actively lead if you’re not ready to start a conversation thread.”

    Wise words indeed.

    Perfect way to operate when you didn’t have a plan. That worked great for me the other night at the country club after golf buffet dinner. 100% married couples. With husbands who I did not know checking me out and testing me. They have been well acquainted with my wife socially. And I could see the respect with me keeping Frame based on what Walawala advised in a situation where I didn’t have any desire to lead, but didn’t want to go unappreciated.

  30. @stuffinbox

    re: the steroid test

    lol c’mon dudes….

    bbers evade drug tests too. it isn’t hard….

    you realize that your NON NATTY gains do not INSTANTLY DISAPPEAR when you go off, right?

    test p is out within 2 weeks. dbol’s out within a month a half….

    “.I highly doubt this dude is or ever was on roids.For one he is to small,you can see from the width his triceps that he does reverse bench for strength.The most important thing is he seems to be teaching leaders how to inspire.”

    lmfao

    he claims 22 INCH ARMS…in no way is he ‘too small’

    FYI Ronnie Coleman, KNOWN SUPER HORMONE MONKEY — steroids + GH + Insulin — had 23 INCH arms.

    this — ‘a 50 year old man can have 22 inch biceps completely natty at 8-10% bodyfat’ = pipe dream.

  31. @ stuff

    CT is on borrowed time. I find it awesome that he gets up and keeps going, and tries to motivate others.

    He was one of the first black powerlifting record holders. Henhas to be monstersized. After his heart issues he came back in a smaller version, but still pushing massive weights and working to failure. What many consider overtraining.

    I have no doubt he will die in the gym, or after leaving the gym. He is getting more frail and it is evident in his voice.

    But that body? At 57-58? And strength?

    I had a great- uncle that was twice CT’s size, and he never stepped foot in a gym. He performed manual labor allmof his life, starting as a teen throwing bales of hay onto the back of trucks all day long. No steroids ever. He was powered by meat and veggies and gallons of water. Some guys are genetically gifted.

    I do think CT took testosterone at some point, everyone did back in the day before it was a schedule III drug. But the guy doing vids today seems too small to be juicing. Muscle memory is an great thing. Besides, too much weight on him would be even more deadly.

    OK. Enough CT.😊

    @ scray

    I didn’t hang exclusively with athletes per se but everyone I knew growing up had some measure of ability.

    My neighborhood birthed paratroopers and rangers and secret service agents and federal Marshalls and law enforcement officers of all types.

    The consensus growing up was that you had to do SOMETHING and be outstanding.

    Don’t look for that in my old neighborhood today though…. Not in great numbers anyway.

  32. can anyone suggest some old movies that have a strong masculine man as the main character?

  33. … Fistful of dollars. Well, any Clint Eastwood flick.

    Depends on your definition of ” strong masculine “.

  34. @Scray

    Seriously 22inch biceps pushing 700+ is not body builder,it is weight lifter.

    There are body builders that are much bigger and can’t even come close to this kind of power.

    This guy doesn’t care about size,only strength.

  35. @stuffinbox

    “Seriously 22inch biceps pushing 700+ is not body builder,it is weight lifter.
    There are body builders that are much bigger and can’t even come close to this kind of power.”

    k, and I linked to the natty lifting records and standards which he’s well outside of anyway….

    …and he’s supposed to be exceeding them while > 20 years past his prime?

    notice that his ‘steroids passing test’ had all sorts of shit like high cholesterol and whatever — where do you think that comes from? being a long-term hormone monkey.

    you can believe in all the fairytales you want to believe in, i’m just telling you how it is.

  36. @Blaximus
    thanks. “strong masculine” in the context of masculine image before feminism’s progressive influence on media, so I could perhaps watch and imitate?

    @stuffinbox
    “old” as in pre-feminism, as described in the post. thanks. the youtube clip seems to be a good example.

  37. Second Clint Eastwood and add Bogart and Mitchum.

    Specific movies include:

    Cool Hand Luke
    Heat (the Burt Reynolds, not the De Niro. Really)
    Lawrence of Arabia
    The Quiet Man
    The 13th Warrior (not that old a movie, but an old story of men, properly told)

    And just for a different perspective, a romantic comedy from back in the day when they actually made rom coms for men to watch; Father Goose.

  38. @Kang

    Cool Hand Luke is pretty good imo. Although you’ll have to pick through them, there are some newer movies that have good masculine characters too. Vin Diesel in Pitch Black/Chronicles of Riddick/Riddick ain’t bad, off the top of my head. Also think there are both good and bad examples in lots of war movies (Full Metal Jacket, Platoon, We Were Soldiers, etc. etc.). I’ve been looking for more myself though, interested to see what other commenters suggest.

  39. @Culum: have you read the book “How to win friends and influence people” (by Dale Carnegie)? It will probably help you with rapport skills.

    To anyone who has read this book: I haven’t finished yet but I’m having some difficulty reconciling some of the advice there with Red Pill stuff like “be the prize”. It is clear that what the book is trying to be about is bringing value to other people (with sincere compliments) but it seems that trying that with women may make them think they are the prize. Obviously, it is not a book about pick-up, but rapport should be a transferable skill.

  40. @all guys who replied – thanks, just glanced at replies. Just got back from another private party…one more day to go of the conference after I get a few hours sleep!

    More later.

  41. @Scray

    You may be right.I’m having fun discussing it.
    I will always side up with the old guy,or some one that has obviously done the work.
    Note there is no magic pill or formula to get where we want to be.we have to do the work.And I am just another old guy that will never retire because I love the game.Someday they may have to remove my corpse from the concrete with a jackhammer,I will die trying.

  42. Lol.

    You guys are great.

    I should’ve known better than to bring up specifics re: lifting.

    All of BB/lifting forums on the net are full of disagreements and arguments that seem to never end. Politics, Religion… Lifting/ working out. For decades I’ve watched with my own eyes and the ” experts ” have done multiple 180’s concerning what works and what doesn’t.

    Even many studies contradict one another. They always have.

    Lifting is like practicing game. Do research make plan, hit the field or gym, adjust and repeat.

    If you’re trying to accomplish something that requires skill\strength, one must ignore limiting beliefs and thoughts. You must see the possibilities as wide and endless. Because they are.

    Lol, as I type this there’s a story on the news saying that probiotics have little impact on gut health…. Lol…gtfoh. Same old story.

    Anyway, be bolder and more positive. Always more positive.

    Never allow your list of ” can’ts ” to outgrow your list of ” cans “.

    Boldness and confidence. I approve that shit.

  43. @ IAS

    You can build rapport and give value to others within your own strong frame. IMO, overly complimenting women does not impart value to them. That’s what we’ve been instructed to do via many sources. That is Blue Pill to the core. Akin to JBY.

    Adding value to others does not have to equal supplication on one’s part.

  44. @IAS, the key word in Dale Carnegie’s rapport concepts is: *sincere*

    Women with any kind of decent looks get complimented and kowtowed to all the time by beta guys with an agenda.

    Women want to *earn* compliments from an outcome-independent alpha, who can take her or leave her.

  45. Best case scenario:

    Telling Nicole Kidman that she’s beautiful is like telling Bill Walton that he’s tall.

  46. @blax

    it’s not really limiting beliefs. it’s just basic physiology.

    if you’re lifting for an absolute number or for some kind of pre-conceived look you definitely are doing it wrong and are at risk of being tooled later.

    i lift to uncover more of who I am and who I can be….physically, sure, but mentally as well.

    i don’t lift for the look I lift for the mental and well-being benefits.

    BUT….

    facts are facts, the lift you named yourself as doing no sweat is an elite lift…if you could do it with good form and not the kind of BS below, then good on you

  47. @Blaximus

    Always more positive.

    I’ve been rereading the Dale Carnegie book, “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. Dale says to not criticize people. But how can you correct someone without criticizing them? That’s a bit of a conundrum. A praise sandwich, maybe…praise the person before and after the criticism to mitigate the ego blast. He uses the “lead a horse to water” idiom for correction, but that does’t always work.

  48. “Dale says to not criticize people.”

    Dale is using street language, where “criticize” is interpreted in the negative sense. That said:

    “But how can you correct someone without criticizing them?”

    By praising them when they are correct, thus positively reinforcing correctness.

    1. I think it’s real easy for guys to conflate getting into better physical shape than they presently are with getting “yoked” or aspiring to some over-the-top idea of going from overweight to competitive bodybuilder ripped.

      Guys exaggerate this because it excuses their lack of interest, commitment or just lethargy in changing their lifestyle even marginally to look better.

      You don’t have to be ‘yoked’ to look good and arouse a woman, but they idea that a guy might need to be to such a degree is rooted in the same intra-sexual competitive disqualification as when a guy will say “yeah, he’s good looking, but guys that good looking are usually gay” when a woman moons over a ‘hawt’ guy.

      As I was saying, at 48 I’m in better shape than most men I see in the gym who are in their late 20’s. I’m in better shape now than when I was then too. That’s more due to having a better education on what I need to develop and maintain it, but also because back then I was more committed to other things in my life.

      For the better part of my early 20’s my N-count was due more to my looks and social proof than any Game I had. In fact, my Game back then developed from the confidence my looks, social proof and preselection provided for me.

      I was in no way ‘yoked’, but I had a Look that inspired arousal in women to the point that I would reliably get IOIs. I had now appreciable money, but I regularly had women take me to their place or they would make efforts to come to my little studio in North Hollywood to bang. The character I represented to them, the sexual opportunity I was, the social proof / preselection I had was often more than enough to trigger the emotional response needed to get a girl’s tingle going.

      It didn’t matter that I was rail thin or effectively unemployed, I was the ‘type’ these women idealized and any sex I had with them progressed from that initial tingle. I was certainly in shape, but my capacity to arouse women wasn’t dependent on my benching 300 lbs. or posing in the Mr. O.

  49. Rollo

    “I was in no way ‘yoked’, but I had a Look that inspired arousal in women to the point that I would reliably get IOIs.”

    A lean, defined look, broader shoulders, narrow waist and visible abs are universally appreciated by women – and gay art directors –

    from then

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Michelangelos_David.jpg

    to now

    http://explore.calvinklein.com/images/time-line/1982_UN_Webe_Tom.jpg

    *Disclaimer [this does not negate, nor diminish the importance of game in sexual success. Game is greater than the look]

  50. addendum – the reality is the kitchen will make the best body and the fork is the best piece of equipment you can use…

  51. A hamster staring in the mirror at another hamster…

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/lindsay-tigar/2014/11/i-slept-with-my-ex-for-2-more-years-here-are-7-things-i-learned-from-that-situation/

    Just to titillate you a bit, when speaking of sex with her ex, she notes:

    “1. He kept me from being slutty.

    My ex and I never had a problem in the bedroom. If anything, it was the place where we really worked. We could switch between intimate and loving to dirty and kinky on a dime. By sleeping with him after a bad date or on a random Sunday afternoon when I desperately wanted to rest my head on a man’s chest, I called him instead of a random guy. While I had short relationships in those two years, I mainly only slept with my ex.”

    …Feel the Sanberg…

  52. @ scray

    I’m trying to leave this alone… lol. It will NEVER stop.

    Just a correction: I didn’t say or mean to imply that 1) 500 lb bench press was ” no sweat “. 2) that I was doing 500 for reps and sets.

    1 press at 500. Repeated about 3-4 times a year, just to do it. The whole idea was not to do what Heath did, lol. My goal was 1 solid, correct form press at the ( very hard to bench ) weight to see where my absolute, 100% limit was for a rep. No way was there a 2nd rep in the cards.

    I trained in the beginning because although I’ve always been strong for my size, I was extremely dissatisfied with my body’s appearance. When I started training at 15-16, I was 6ft tall and weighed about 150 pounds soaking wet. So yeah, I’m guilty of training for appearance in the beginning, absolutely. But that was solely for my piece of mind.

    Eventually size became unimportant and strength became paramount. Again, for my own benefit.

    Now, it’s all about maintaining reasonable strength and flexibility, and not losing muscle and have it replaced by fat.

  53. @rollo

    “competitive bodybuilder ripped.”

    that’s not even possible without steroids. steroids and hormones have really messed with people’s ideas of what reasonable goals are naturally. and a lot of people aren’t really that into looking like Ronnie Coleman, so they think the only end result will be to look gross.

    it’s better to just go look at a greek statue.

    normal,strong human musculature:

    http://testosterone-nation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/7696180302_e6e1fba6ba.jpg

    -SUPERHUMAN DEMI-GOD- musculature

    http://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/915/flashcards/4088915/png/the_weary_herakles1351750236381-141D88D271D45ECAA64.png

    look at hunter-gatherers”

    http://www.science-facts.com/aborigines.jpg

    if you look anything like that, you will start to FEEL amazing. a lot of bodybuilders walk around half-insane half-zombified because of all the hormones they are taking. they will pass out from running up a flight of stairs….their ‘fitness’ is a facade (and many normal jacked dudes are the same way).

    ‘You don’t have to be ‘yoked’ to look good and arouse a woman’

    they don’t really get aroused by the look. it’s the power. you just are a better version of yourself when you’re healthy.

    the idea of developing an attractive trait to its highest limit is only useful for people who have a deficiency in something else.

    an average man really doesn’t need to do much and could probably just work on his game to get good results.

    but a guy who is short or ugly or whatever would benefit greatly from getting in great physical shape: and it’s primarily for the added benefit to your state.

    people shit on you more but it’s way easier for you to handle it, so you come out ahead.

  54. Blax, I’m convinced genes matter, in powerlifting (and strongman) just as much as short-distance running.

    I powerlifted for a couple years before getting back into Judo/BJJ, and in my mid-40s, at 175lb, I hit 365/255/405. That’s not ‘elite’, but I trained at home as just a regular dude with a job and kids, and did that with about 18 months of training, starting at basically 135 on all the big three.

    I’m half Spanish (White, from the Celtic north of Spain) and half Irish Celtic/Nordic…everyone I know who has around 25 percent or more Celtic and/or Nordic blood is unusually strong for his/her size–like clockwork. Go to any powerliting meet and you will see the Northern European equivalent of West Africans (and their descendants in Jamaica) in short distance running. Genes matter.

  55. I got plenty of IOI’s in my 20’s too. Doesn’t mean shit. I don’t understand how you can admit this guy can get women…

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ghyUmNt5Yd0/hqdefault.jpg

    …and not come to the conclusion that looks don’t matter. Look at him, LOOK AT HIM! lol. It’s hard, because he’s so fucking ugly. I can’t believe this looks discussion is coming up in a thread where we’re talking about women fantasizing about fucking dogs. I mean, Monster Erotica is a popular section on Amazon.

    http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1384123168l/18777277.jpg

    Monsters and dogs aren’t particularly attractive humans. You don’t need to be that strong to overpower a girl. Come on guys…

  56. @blax

    ” So yeah, I’m guilty of training for appearance in the beginning, absolutely. But that was solely for my piece of mind.”

    i think everyone starts there, so no big deal.

    Arnold nails it here about how important your mind is in bodybuilding:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz3E7VqIya0

    but MORE IMPORTANTLY he says to GO OUT and APPLY this principle to EVERY aspect to your life.

  57. @andy

    “not come to the conclusion that looks don’t matter. Look at him, LOOK AT HIM! lol. It’s hard, because he’s so fucking ugly. I can’t believe this looks discussion is coming up in a thread where we’re talking about women fantasizing about fucking dogs”

    because it’s not that simple

    like, do looks matter in the sense that outside of crazy genetic abnormalities a woman absolutely won’t FUCK you? no, not in that sense

    do looks matter in the sense that your looks feed into a huge loop of social norms and expectations that she has been conditioned with all her life? ya, they do.

    part of game is figuring out what norms and whatnot attach to your look.

    for me, ex, if i’m short, off the bat, there’s negative norms associated with me, so i need to roll in and DHV to erase that perception and change it.

    if a lot of positive social norms and pressure comes with my look, then it will make my frame stronger, which will make things easier for me, too.

    so a good-looking chode can have some success because society has conditioned the girl to just….root in his favor to some degree.

    it’s a pretty subtle point RSD makes, and most dudes just don’t seem to get it lol.

  58. “because it’s not that simple”

    @scray

    I get what you’re saying. But when a poor short skinny-fat ugly balding dude can land models and celebrities? From my perspective that means looks don’t matter.

  59. I get what you’re saying. But when a poor short skinny-fat ugly balding dude can land models and celebrities? From my perspective that means looks don’t matter.

    Yes, but the reason this seems incredible is because it’s outstanding in a condition where looks generally do matter. If looks didn’t matter in some degree we would think that a guy built like Chris Hemsworth getting with women was ‘incredible’ because he’d overcome his good looks “handicap” with Game and attitude.

    The exception proves the rule.

  60. ” . . . if you were hiring an employee would you be hesitant to hire a fat guy?”

    To maintain a database? Perhaps.
    To haul block? Not on your life.

    What caught my eye is that they intend to fix the fat with unlimited amounts of bread, pasta and leaves.

  61. Now, before YaReally posts another doctoral thesis and 7 infield videos of poor short skinny-fat ugly balding dudes landing models, allow me to qualify all that with a great Roissy post:

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/womens-standards-crumble-easily-given-the-right-incentives/

    I agree 100% with what YaReally brings to this forum, and yes there’s a world of difference between what women fantasize about when they masturbate and what they’re willing to go home with on a Friday night, much less the guy they get into an LTR with.

    Good looks are not a handicap to overcome. Game and practicing it is vitally important. Affluence is not a necessary component to getting laid, but it often seems so when men observe women’s attraction responses to it.

  62. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15MwhPv3Ud4

    ” if you were hiring an employee would you be hesitant to hire a fat guy?”

    Reminds me of this episode of 30 Rock… I’ve met with over 30 top end VC firms… in every case the majority of the partners looked like Chad T’Cock, especially East Coast firms. Because institutions are biased in whom they give their money to.

    I once hired a VP merely because he was movie star good looking (but a sweet natured idiot) and I knew clients would love him… and they did He was essentially an actor but he didn’t know it, playing the part of an exec.

    The human eye can be easily fooled, which makes having game so much more important. On EITHER side of the looks coin you find yourself. There is definitely a handicap to be better looking and gaming, yes you will get some freebies, but you will also get a lot premature rejection. You need to adjust.

  63. @ Rollo

    ” I think it’s real easy for guys to conflate getting into better physical shape than they presently are with getting “yoked” or aspiring to some over-the-top idea of going from overweight to competitive bodybuilder ripped.

    Guys exaggerate this because it excuses their lack of interest, commitment or just lethargy in changing their lifestyle even marginally to look better.”

    Lol. I didn’t really run into this mindset until I ventured out of my town. The culture I grew up in was very much about male fitness. The only difference between men was the degrees men went to in development.

    Even moving to the South, I didn’t encounter too much ” lift shaming “. Football on high school and college level is HUGE in the South, so there was appreciation for a strong physique that was much greater than the ” North “.

    those Country boys weren’t no joke. STRONG like Bull.

    I blocked out other’s opinions about working out. Lol, guys got so butthurt if you showed up and removed your shirt. At the same time, they claimed zero interest in improving themselves.

    I stated earlier in the thread, I’ve been on each end of the spectrum. Because women/girls saw me as very attractive, boning them was never an issue, but there was an undeniable uptick in their visceral reactions and ” chasing ” with an additional 25-30 pounds of muscle on my frame.

    scray is more in tune with what’s happening now, but I sense more ” lift shaming ” from what I can notice today. people joke about work out proponents using roids and being narcissistic, posing in mirrors and what-not.

    Enrique is really on to something concerning genetics. And man can improve, but some have distinct ( steroid free ) advantages. Anecdotally, there were a few guys in my family that were competitive bodybuilder sized, that never walked into a gym and didn’t know what steroids were. So I do not believe that men can’t get truly huge without chemical assistance. Just ain’t true. Genetics: It’s what’s for breakfast.

    Just like most aspects of life, education and knowledge, along with Will, can be the great equalizer.

  64. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIGBnXjUwOk

    One last bit on this (whole episode above, first 5 minutes very funny as Jack explains “the Bubble”).

    If you are in great shape when you meet your wife, even a slight diminishment will begin to register on her, especially if she is the female alpha equivalent.

    I hit my thirties 10 lbs heavier than college weight, not ripped but not a fat guy… still looked fine in suits, still was active, played a sport once a week at a high level etc. way slimmer than almost all the guys I knew my age.

    But there was a slow eroding of attraction, physical as well as all the beta elements… Then when I was depressed and enjoying the Hipster’s Devil’s Triangle – Craft Beer, Craft Burgers, Craft Pizza – I gained another 10lbs… But still felt OK. Still had a little tricep/bicep/chest definition, a little paunch, but if I stood super straight and sucked in, could see a trim guy there looking back… 5’10” 195 42 suit 36 pant.

    But the erosions was continuing, without my knowledge. wife would never say anything… until one day were were laying in bed and she could feel the paunch resting on her back. Then she said she didn’t like it…

    Anyhow one day, not directly related to any of this, I saw a beach picture and was like damn, that’s not me. Got back to my fitness regime. Dropped 20lbs in 3 months… All her friends coming out of the woodwork now. Really caused her to step up her game. Now add a large dose of game to this… was a good combo.

    But yeah, it could have gone the other way, game first. But a norm was established with her long ago.

  65. @Blaximus
    ” So I do not believe that men can’t get truly huge without chemical assistance. Just ain’t true. Genetics: It’s what’s for breakfast.”

    They can …..but like with almost anything most men choose to take the easiest route with the least resistance. Its the biological inclination to maximize value while minimizing effort and time.

  66. @andy

    “But when a poor short skinny-fat ugly balding dude can land models and celebrities? From my perspective that means looks don’t matter.”

    why do you have any expectation that a fat ‘ugly’ balding dude can’t land ‘models?’

    SOCIETY put that thought in your head that people who look like Tyler can’t get laid.

    ‘good looking’ isn’t as universal as people pretend it is.

    and if it isn’t that universal (beyond just being healthy — MAYBE), why accept some other standard of beauty that isn’t YOU?

    the universal is SOCIAL STATUS — who SEEMS like they’re doing well HERE.

    ‘Consider this recent experiment from Johns Hopkins Carey Business School in Baltimore. The researchers used a dating website that allowed users to rate random people. After they had made up their mind, some users were shown the average score from other visitors. Although there was no “right” or “wrong” answers, the users soon learnt which types were proving more popular, and started to score other faces along similar lines. Soon, everyone’s taste had converged – their concept of beauty had shifted, just by using the website. This is despite the fact that it was completely anonymous – there was no benefit to going with the status quo.’
    http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20150622-the-myth-of-universal-beauty

    the only reason LOOKS matter is the extent to which YOUR look has been conditioned by others to believe is ‘HIGH STATUS.’

    people who have high status are…..

    confident, pre-selected, etc.

    that’s partially why lifting for appearance is a fool’s errand.
    do it to make it easier to act confident, etc.

  67. Funny little update on these waitresses

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/05/01/ghosts-in-the-machine/comment-page-2/#comment-154456 “The Five”

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/04/24/fempowerment/comment-page-4/#comment-153468 “The Six”

    So both these waitresses work at this one place, and they are both working last night… I come in for a short end of happy hour drink. The 6 comes over to serve me, after a little wait. She was working a party of 10 across the room. she comes over sees me… say “Hey baby” and brushes my hair a little. “sorry to keep you waiting” and she is staring at me with hard eye contact [almost Stripper Eye level] so i tease her about having to make it up to me and she says she is sure she will. Good flirty vibe about her. Some more banter.

    So I have my drink, she is is crushed by the 10 party… Then the 5 comes over, she has been buzzing around in the background. so she helps me cash out, comes over and I get up to leave and shoe opens her arms, “you get a hug” I laugh and am like “I get a hug huh…” and she has wrapped me up, pushed all up on me, skinny little hipster body plastered to me. Now I never do the “beta bend”, the bend at waist hand hug. I go to boyfriend posture, just hold her in, rock her a little, hands down to waist and squeeze. she is running her hands down my back and down my arms… She asks if I’m going to stay for another, I say busy have to go. She says “well come back out at night more, I only work days once in a while (usually there for lunch)”…

    The six waves to me as I’m heading out, giving me some more eye. so seems like both there to be gamed, if wanted. The 6 has some potential I’ll say.

    This is where HABD pounces on “threesome!”… LOL

    Scribblerg – for you and your coffee girls, what I’ve noticed in situations like this, if you don’t escalate… after just 2 or 3 interactions like this they go cold.. moment gone. FZ city. Since I don’t PU in my town, i’ve seen this dynamic a lot. Always be Escalating.

  68. @ Sentient

    “….a little paunch, but if I stood super straight and sucked in, could see a trim guy there looking back… 5’10” 195 42 suit 36 pant.”

    Lol. That paunch.

    It is always the last thing to go. I still have a little one that is not visible until I sit down. Wife’s always reminding me to ” sit up straight honey ” and it pretty much vanishes.

    But I know it’s there.

    I tipped the scales this a.m. at 217. 4 pounds down from last week. That heavy bag is doing the trick.

    I’m considering that 20 pound weight drop to get under 200. I love my weight, but it would be healthier not to carry 200 into my 60’s. My dad was 250 at 6’4″ in his 40’s and he’s 185 today at 78. He looks almost 20 years younger than his age. He busts my chops constantly.

    My wife used to say that living with me was like having a gorilla in the house. That’s when I weighed closer to 240. She never complained, but she’s more touchy feely as the weight comes down. Funny thing is, my waist is fast approaching 34, down from 36, even at 217. What the hell’s gonna happen if I drop 20?

    Food.

    Damn.

    I eat pretty much whatever I want because I still have a fairly high calorie burn. Lol, I’ma drop 20 just by eating more veggies and 2 burgers instead of however many I want to.

    Luckily, neither of my wives complained of my weight. I got more complaints for knocking shit over accidently and making too much noise walking around the house. When I stretch and yawn, my wife just stares at me saying ” really hun??”.

    It’s not the weight for me at my age, it’s the distribution. My legs and glutes are shrinking and it’s work to slow or stop it. I can’t really squat heavy enough to really build them now.

    Hmmm… dropping 20 seems very logical now.

    5’11” – 194 pounds…

    http://40.media.tumblr.com/e86bf9b4be263060e9b5eb3f9e93fe8b/tumblr_nypg00RBqx1qddelko6_1280.png

    lol. and wifey is a huge Odell Beckham fan.

  69. @ mersonia

    ” They can …..but like with almost anything most men choose to take the easiest route with the least resistance. Its the biological inclination to maximize value while minimizing effort and time.”

    ^^^^ This right here is troof ^^^^

  70. ‘Scray
    This is universal’

    lol…myth making and social ‘repeat til true’ at its finest….

    “Part of the process of becoming a mathematics writer is, it appears, learning that you cannot refer to the golden ratio without following the first mention by a phrase that goes something like “which the ancient Greeks and others believed to have divine and mystical properties.” Almost as compulsive is the urge to add a second factoid along the lines of “Leonardo Da Vinci believed that the human form displays the golden ratio.”

    There is not a shred of evidence to back up either claim, and every reason to assume they are both false. Yet both claims, along with various others in a similar vein, live on.”

    https://www.maa.org/external_archive/devlin/devlin_05_07.html

    “A search of the internet, or your local library, will convince you that the Fibonacci series has attracted a lunatic fringe of Fibonacci fanatics who look for mysticism in numbers and in nature. You will find fantastic claims:

    The “golden rectangle” is the “most beautiful” rectangle, and was deliberately used by artists in arranging picture elements within their paintings. (You’d think that they’d always use golden rectangle frames, but they didn’t.)
    The patterns based on the Fibonacci numbers, the golden ratio and the golden rectangle are those most pleasing to human perception.
    Mozart used φ in composing music. (He liked number games, but there’s no good evidence that he ever deliberately used φ in a musical composition.)
    The Fibonacci sequence is seen in nature, in the arrangement of leaves on a stem of plants, in the pattern of sunflower seeds, spirals of snail’s shells, in the number of petals of flowers, in the periods of planets of the solar system, and even in stock market cycles. So pervasive is the sequence in nature (according to these folks) that one begins to suspect that the series has the remarkable ability to be “fit” to most anything!
    Nature’s processes are “governed” by the golden ratio. Some sources even say that nature’s processes are “explained” by this ratio.

    Of course much of this is patently nonsense. Mathematics doesn’t “explain” anything in nature, but mathematical models are very powerful for describing patterns and laws found in nature. I think it’s safe to say that the Fibonacci sequence, golden mean, and golden rectangle have never, not even once, directly led to the discovery of a fundamental law of nature. When we see a neat numeric or geometric pattern in nature, we realize we must dig deeper to find the underlying reason why these patterns arise.”

    http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/pseudo/fibonacc.htm

    http://aturing.umcs.maine.edu/~markov/GoldenRatio.pdf

  71. Rollo –

    There is a real life example of the “perfect guy” from the Heartiste story – Dr. Robert B. Pamplin Jr.

    Dr. Robert B. Pamplin, Jr. – Resume
    Milestones

    No other living American has earned eight degrees.
    (Verified by the Guinness Book of World Records, statistics division of the U.S. Department of Education, the American Association of University Professors, and the National Library of Education.)

    No other living American has received distinction, national recognition, and been successful in five vocations – Businessman, Farmer, Educator, Historical Preservationist and Author.
    (Verified by the Guinness Book of World Records.)

    No other living American has been Chairman of the Board of three accredited colleges or universities.
    (Verified by the Director of Trustee Information Center and Library of the Association of the Governing Boards of Universities and Colleges.)

    No other living American has two schools of business named for him.

    Ranked 5th nationally in weightlifting (Olympic lifts).

    Won athletic gold medal in college.

    With inheritance of $113,000 made first million as an undergraduate.

    Triumphed over cancer.

    Raised or given more than one billion dollars for philanthropic activities.

    Selected Portland’s First Citizen by two organizations.

    Received State of Oregon’s highest individual recognition – Governor’s Gold Award.

    Bestowed prestigious national recognition of Woodrow Wilson Center Corporate Citizenship Award.

    Purchased the racing horse Doc Superstar Bar for $30,000 and later sold him for $850,000.

    Able to do 500 push-ups, 75 chin-ups, and 1,000 sit-ups.

    Escaped Kenya tribal war and killed a charging buffalo.

    10 page Resume here http://pamplin.org/chairman/resume

    http://pamplin.org/images/main-front-page-landing-graphic.jpg

  72. I always try to find the easiest way, with the least resistance, to traverse my route.

    But I tend to pick routes that are difficult enough that I’m not sure whether I can make it or not. Finding out is often the point.

    And I’ve mentioned before that I don’t intend to leave this world with my boots packed away in the closet because I have no use for them any more. When it comes to near that time, I intend to pick a route I’m pretty damn sure I can’t make and see how far I can pursue it.

    Although I’m a bit torn between lost in the mountains and lost at sea. In any case it won’t be anywhere near a damn city, or person for that matter.

  73. Although I often find that the best use I can make of any particular moment of my time is to do fuck all with it.

  74. @Andy

    >”I can’t believe this looks discussion is coming up in a thread where we’re talking about women fantasizing about fucking dogs”

    Women don’t just *fantasize” about fucking dogs, and other beasts.

    If you ever get the chance to read “The Happy Hooker” by Xaviera Hollander,

    http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hooker-Xaviera-Hollander/dp/B0011VW0U0

    you will be treated to her account of having sex with her sister’s German shepherd.

    This is what the *vast* majority of guys don’t “get.”

    Women are massively sexual, in different ways than men. Read Nancy Friday’s “My Secret Garden”

    https://www.amazon.com/My-Secret-Garden-Nancy-Friday-ebook/dp/B00GS4V1QE

    if you would like to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

  75. ….. Linda Lovelace recounts fucking a dog. Worse, it was filmed and there’s photographic proof.

    As I’ve stated, I knew a girl that had sex with her male rotts.

  76. Maybe I was on a different planet for a while? I thought women’s extremity of sexual nature was pretty much known by now.

  77. @ Sentient

    By praising them when they are correct, thus positively reinforcing correctness.

    Yeah, that works in dog training to keep dogs from shitting on the carpet.

    lol

    Sometimes you have to stick the offender’s nose in his shit.

  78. @scray, Sexuality, families, and men did not come about because of society. To the contrary, sexuality, families, and men are what made society possible in the first place.

    I agree with your mindset, in fact it’s one of the Iron Rules:
    https://therationalmale.com/2012/01/05/a-league-of-your-own/

    However, what you’re suggesting is exactly the same denial of evidential realities that fat-acceptance advocates use – the belief that some nebulous “society” dictates what is attractive instead of accepting the truth about evolved arousal cues. As I said before, Tyler and YaReally are incredible for their capacity to buck the common environment. If muscularity wasn’t sexy, if short fat balding older guys with good Game were the ‘rule’ no one would bat an eye when one of these guys stole away an HB9 from a guy with A&F quality looks. No one would say “Holy shit! Did you just see that video of the pudgy ginger guy swoop that swimsuit model?”

    It’s not social conditioning that makes that an incredible act. If there was no physical element involved in arousal it would be common to see guys that look like Seth Rogan but with amazing social skills, confidence and conversational acumen routinely score with bikini models – they would be the common standard and men would adapt accordingly in order to improve their odds of getting laid.

    If there was no physical element to arousal the physical standards we commonly associate with being “good looking” now would’ve been selected-out of our collective evolution long ago and what we consider bucking a “society” trend now would be the norm.

  79. Implication: Dale Carnegie must be creatively interpreted. There’s no point in unnecessarily bruising someone else’s ego or merely being offensive in order to generate good feelings within yourself.

    Issues must be made clear. Cause as little pain as possible.

  80. “Sometimes you have to stick the offender’s nose in his shit.”

    I understand. I answered the question.

    “Dale Carnegie must be creatively interpreted.”

    There is no Theory of Everything. You are, in the end, in all things, out there on your own.

  81. @scray
    @Andy
    @Rollo

    for me, ex, if i’m short, off the bat, there’s negative norms associated with me, so i need to roll in and DHV to erase that perception and change it.

    if a lot of positive social norms and pressure comes with my look, then it will make my frame stronger, which will make things easier for me, too.

    and

    @scray

    I get what you’re saying. But when a poor short skinny-fat ugly balding dude can land models and celebrities? From my perspective that means looks don’t matter.

    from Rollo
    Good looks are not a handicap to overcome. Game and practicing it is vitally important. Affluence is not a necessary component to getting laid, but it often seems so when men observe women’s attraction responses to it.

    i think this overall effect is the same principle as what happens in ‘peacocking’… you ping as ‘alpha stud’ when you defy social expectations of how you ‘should be’… (provided you can hold your frame, of course…lol)

    so, looks matter to the extent that you can use that (social ‘conformity’ = a guy she is ‘supposed to like’) to get some initial attraction/IOIs…but that initial attraction isn’t going to carry the bang…lol… but it will put you into beta orbiter status a lot easier…lol

    and so being ‘fit’ is both easier (bc you have some amount of time to open/get in set)… and harder (bc you are going to have to work more at drawing some shit tests (to show your internals) and hold your frame better, so you can convince her hindbrain to go all in…lol… (and not just for ‘provisioning sex’…lol)… and you are going to have to calibrate better bc a girl might not feel like she ‘deserves’ you (so her ASD will ping as a potential pump and dump…)

    and she’ll want to see you as actually LTR material, bc that’s what disney tells her is going to happen…lol

    whereas somebody like Tyler isn’t ‘conventionally handsome’ (lol), so just his APPROACHING a hot girl is going to draw the initial shit test… AND show his internals a lot faster than a chad thundercock… and he can just keep pushing the alpha fux angle (without much pullback calibration…) bc the girl isn’t thinking about him as a potential BF…it’s just a straight up hindbrain-sanctioned ‘genetic dump’…lol…

    BUT…then, if you are fit, the issue becomes NOT letting the FI push you into a ‘traditional’ (beta provider) role… since that is a girl’s default setting and the FI’s goal… where ‘nice guys’ end up…

    and why wouldn’t she want to settle down with a Forge, er i mean, a chad thundercock…lol…

    so, the looks and money get ‘attraction’ from girls… but game gets you to ‘desire’…

    good luck!

    ps. for all you weight lifting gentlemen… you should look into kettlebell swings…it’s great for fat burning… AND all that snappy, hip-thrusting conditioning practice might come in handy for somethin’… just sayin’…lol…

  82. @rollo

    “the belief that some nebulous “society” dictates what is attractive instead of accepting the truth about evolved arousal cues.”

    when you show me hard SCIENTIFIC proof of these HARDCORE ‘evolved’ arousal cues, i’m in.

    just-so evo psych doesn’t cut it.

    man is the prime social animal. he knows nothing else but society. he LEARNS.

    “If there was no physical element to arousal the physical standards we commonly associate with being “good looking” now would’ve been selected-out of our collective evolution long ago and what we consider bucking a “society” trend now would be the norm.”

    first i i didn’t say there was ‘no’ physical element to arousal — i allowed the plausibility of some minimal ‘directly health-related’ physical attraction (signs you aren’t grossly deformed or a leper or whatever) cues. second, physical standards ‘we’ associate with ‘good-looking’ vary RIGHT NOW between cultures….

    the mere fact that human beings exhibit such high variability wrt physical traits should, in and of itself, demonstrate that any particular set of physical characteristics isn’t that important. height varies a ton, facial features vary a ton, etc. etc. selection pressure decreases this kind of variance…

    of course, this would make sense if what is attractive DEPENDS on the circumstances of a particular society — how dense is the pop, how available is food, etc. etc. etc. and it certainly seems like the standards change…

    ‘ if short fat balding older guys with good Game were the ‘rule’ no one would bat an eye when one of these guys stole away an HB9 from a guy with A&F quality looks. No one would say “Holy shit! Did you just see that video of the pudgy ginger guy swoop that swimsuit model?”’

    none of that requires the traits you’re talking about to be ‘innately’ or’ universally’ attractive.

    it only requires them to be attractive IN THIS TIME and in THIS PLACE.

    but if 400 short ‘ugly-by-today’s-standards’ frail dudes gained control of society….I bet the standards for ‘good-looking’ would match their appearance in 100-200 years.

    ‘If there was no physical element involved in arousal it would be common to see guys that look like Seth Rogan but with amazing social skills, confidence and conversational acumen routinely score with bikini models ‘

    no, it wouldn’t, if the current societal norm of ‘this is attractive’ didn’t match Seth Rogan.

    women will FUCK DOGS

    that should tell you EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW about how fucking stupid this whole ‘omg theyre so selective b/c blah blah blah blah…’

    Tyler doesn’t just make women attracted to his ‘personality.’ he makes women see HIM (PHYSICALLY) as attractive

    and here’s a study showing how behaviors influence PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS ratings: http://evolution.binghamton.edu/dswilson/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DSW13.pdf

    because this is how it works —

    1) your look + preconditioned expectation of people who look like you
    2) your behavior + does it match how people with high or low status behave
    3) if you act like people who have high status and people who have high status are physically attractive you are now physically attractive

  83. @Blaximus

    It’s not the weight for me at my age, it’s the distribution. My legs and glutes are shrinking and it’s work to slow or stop it. I can’t really squat heavy enough to really build them now.

    Dan John can help with that…lol…high rep heavy squats…too much for me right now (bc i’m old and weak…lol), but you could probably handle 225 for 50 reps…

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-squat-carry-heavy-stuff-and-shut-up

    good luck!

  84. To continue, @Andy

    This also points out the double standard.

    Men having sex with men is “gross” (“gay” is even used by young people as an epthet for “pathetic”) while women having sex with women is “hot.”

    A guy jacking off at a BDSM party will get kicked out, while a woman jilling off will attract an approving audience.

    Men practicing bestiality is pathetic and perverted, while women can have sex with beasts and it’s avant garde and precious.

    http://gawker.com/this-woman-had-precious-gentle-sex-with-a-dolphin-1588710815

    In fact in the link above the woman having sex with a dolphin is described as “gentle” and “precious” while a guy having sex with a dolphin is characterized as “creepy” in the very same article.

    Police department Detectives spend huge amounts of resources to capture male pedophiles, but I know someone who couln’t get his local vice detective to even look at an ad from a woman advertizing on Craigslist for encounters with underage boys. In fact, the only cases I know of where women have been prosecuted for staturtory rape have involved teachers where the parent has filed a complaint on behalf of their child.

    For that matter, how could a movie like Tadpole that depicts a woman having a sexual relationship with a supposedly 15 year old boy (the producers used an over-18 actor who looked young, presumably on the advice of their lawyers- LOL) still be on sale, and touted as a “Great Romantic Comedy?”

    http://www.amazon.com/Tadpole-Sigourney-Weaver/dp/B000077VRX

    To quote roger Ebert: ” I tried to accept this premise on its own terms, but could not. Too much has happened in the arena of sexual politics since “The Graduate,” and I kept thinking that since Oscar was 15 and his stepmother and her friend were about 40, this plot would have been unthinkable if the genders had been reversed.”

    http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/tadpole-2002

    Do you see a pattern here?

    Women doing anything sexual that could be characterized as a paraphilia by a pshychologist, and even a felony under the law, will be characterized as “hot” and “sexy” while men doing the very same things will be characterized as “perverted” and “creepy.”

    Women’s sex, of **all** kinds should be unrestricted, according to the prevailing meme, while men need to be “kept under control.”

    Same pattern Rollo has talked about before?

Speak your mind

%d bloggers like this: